Do kiddie beauty pageants border on child abuse?
Barbie just celebrated her 50th birthday and still the debate rages on among concerned moms: harmless doll or body image bruiser? Barbie’s one thing, but I can’t imagine why there’s any debate over glitzy kiddie beauty pageants. They’re just plain bad for girls.
Many of us were first exposed to this subculture when images of pageant princess JonBenet Ramsey inundated television following her 1996 slaying, images that Dan Rather referred to as “kiddie porn.” That’s a fair assessment. None of the parents involved in this world intend to make their pretty babies fodder for the photo and video collections of pedophiles, of course. Yet that’s the result when they take fresh-faced children and publicly make them up into Hollywood starlets. Seven-year-old legs are shaved for more even, fake tans, preschoolers are fitted for hair extensions and false eyelashes, even fake teeth are put in to mask missing baby teeth. Got nausea?
Sure, there’s “natural” pageants too, filled with plain-faced kids sporting off-the-rack togs. Yet that’s not what inspired the documentary “Toddlers and Tiaras,” so successful that it morphed into a reality show on TLC. With over 100,000 competing annually in what some estimate to be a $5 billion industry, this twisted subculture is going mainstream faster than you can say “Little Miss Sunshine.”
I’m sick of excuses for this exploitative trend — that it builds self-esteem, that little girls want to partake in these excessive and arduous productions. What builds self-esteem is true competence, what little girls want is to feel special and receive a lot of attention from their parents. Surely, there’s healthier ways to achieve those aims.
The economy is a disaster, but at least it may help kill off this exorbitantly expensive “hobby.” Then maybe all the fabulous costumes and shoes and accessories owned by these families can stay where they belong — in the dress-up drawer at home.
Like many moms, I’ve got a drawer full of Barbies and a chest full of costumes, along with the belief that little girls have the right to play at starlet or princess to their hearts’ desire. Yet it should be their heart, their desire, that calls the shots. Grownups? Keep out of it, if you know what’s good for your kids.
Do kiddie beauty pageants border on child abuse?
No offense to my column counterpart, but give me a break! Last summer, wasn’t Andy the one in favor of decriminalizing prostitution, the ultimate in exploitation? Kiddie pageants are a competition, not a cruelty.
Yes, beauty pageants for children can go to excessive, damaging lengths — but so can any competitive endeavor! At a recent speaking engagement I watched two little girls run up and beg their mom (my event organizer) to be allowed to start their daily cheerleading practice. Turns out, they are on an intensively competitive “mini-cheerleading” team that has made it to the state and national levels. They practice multiple hours a day, have little time for any other endeavor — and love it. I’m sure “cheerleading parents” can be accused of excess, too — but does that mean it is child abuse?
What about competitive league youth baseball? Soccer? I know one family whose talented young boys played two hours of tennis a day. Abuse? Knowing these boys, it would have been closer to abuse if their parents had reacted out of fear of excess and had denied them the competition they craved.
Now, obviously, just because a child craves something doesn’t mean it is good for them! But it doesn’t mean it is necessarily bad for them either. Each parent must know their own child, watch for the ramifications of any endeavor, and be willing to make the decisions that are best for the child and family.
For example, one concern with any pageant is an overemphasis on appearance – and cheerleading has a similar issue. So the mom I mentioned kept a lookout, but didn’t see that issue with her particular girls. Instead, she said, they were mostly learning lessons she valued: about grace under pressure, having fun even in a competition, and how to win and lose well.
If a child isn’t learning the right lessons and isn’t handling it well, then the parent would make a different decision. But make it based on fact, not fear.
I personally don’t understand the appeal of kiddie pageants, but a good parent will use whatever their child is interested in to bring out the good lessons. And if that is what a “pageant parent” is doing, they shouldn’t be criticized for it.
You may comment all weekend on Woman to Woman blog, but comments won’t be posted until Monday morning.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Guides
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2009 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
203 comments Add your comment
lovelyliz
March 13th, 2009
9:21 am
These kiddie pagents are immoral. There I’ve said it. If I could write the law, I would certainly make them illegal certainly for anyone under the age of 16, but since I don’t and it’s legal, go ahead and spend that $$$$$ not on your daughter’s college fund, tutoring, etc.
Gale
March 13th, 2009
9:47 am
I don’t approve of any serious competition for children under about age ten, and nothing at all under eight. Kids need unstructured play before they are regimented into teams and rigid rules. Child beauty pagents are awful. Little girls should not be made up miniature women with styled hair and makeup.
barbie
March 13th, 2009
10:01 am
Thank you andy!
Our girls deserve better! There is a huge difference between spending time pursuing a sport or interest, and having a young girl’s physical appearance altered to meet a limiting stereotype.
Eleanor Rigby
March 13th, 2009
10:23 am
Painting young girls up like that is deeply disturbing and if you can’t see what the problem is, I’m concerned about you. I would have no problem with a child beauty pageant if it celebrated the true beauty of a child. Children are beautiful the way they are. Let them look and act like children.
USinUK
March 13th, 2009
10:31 am
Eleanor Rigby – hear hear!! can anyone forget the pictures of JBR with more war paint on her than … well … than most 16 year olds wear!! and the highlights, fake tan, etc … criminey, you want to talk about the sexualization of kids, let’s start with the “pagaent culture” …. eesh.
And, Shaunti, if you don’t understand the difference between cheerleading (very athletic, where you are actually judged on your abilities) and “pagaents” where you’re judged on your appearance, the more plastic, the better, then there’s just no hope for you.
Mara
March 13th, 2009
10:47 am
I’m with USinUK. There’s a **big** difference between a competition based on skills/abilities and one that is based on how one looks and dresses.
What concerns me is that these pageant moms seem to always say “but she loooooves doing pageants”. Excuse me, but I’m forced to wonder if the child loves the *pageant* or just the attention and approval they get from their parent when they do well. If the child is only doing pageants because they’re afraid their parent won’t love them as much if they don’t, I certainly think that it *might* border on EMOTIONAL abuse. Maybe not what we commonly consider child abuse, but a pretty ugly situation for the kid anyway.
kayli
March 13th, 2009
10:48 am
that is totally right it is a waste of time,money,ect.
USinUK
March 13th, 2009
10:53 am
btw – WAY TO GO, AJC!! I’m digging the new layout and the instant (!!!) posting
nice one (and easy on the eyes)
The Other Jack
March 13th, 2009
10:55 am
Down on the kiddie beauty pageants.
But my monster cat is begging to be a runway model. I don’t want to limit his life, but I don’t want him to be exposed to the seedy underworld of cat sex and cat nip.
Mara
March 13th, 2009
10:56 am
I just wish they’d fix the link so it’d bring you straight here instead of at the old page…
American Mommy
March 13th, 2009
11:00 am
IMO: If your daughter is naturally beautiful, it’s best to focus on developing her other qualities. If she did not emerge so naturally beautiful, the same applies. Leave the shallow sh– for the men with no depth to obsess over. It’s not like that will ever change, but I’m certainly not going sacrifice the healthy development or well-being of a child to the unnatural expectations of the shallow minded.
USinUK
March 13th, 2009
11:05 am
TOJ – great. now I have an image of your cat that’s somewhere between a lynx and Kate Moss (complete with snorting lines of cat nip in hip London bars)
The Other Jack
March 13th, 2009
11:15 am
I don’t know what is up with him. He met a girl cat from down the street and now I’m getting post cards from Milan, London, New York. Paris. He came by the other day and I’m pretty sure he was using. The smell of catnip was all over his luggage.
Sob, snort. I don’t know what to do. This may be in his genes, but he didn’t get it from me!!!!
BTW. The cats to work cartoon was hysterical.
The Other Jack
March 13th, 2009
11:17 am
Hmm. Just posted and it didn’t post. Will iy post this?
The Other Jack
March 13th, 2009
11:18 am
There it is. Sometimes it may take a minute or two, but overall, great improvement.
Mara
March 13th, 2009
11:21 am
m’kay…the old ‘asterisk-word-asterisk’ doesn’t work, let’s see if aboutthis… italics and bold
Mara
March 13th, 2009
11:22 am
HA! (tapping fingers together like Monty Burns) exxxxxcelllant!
USinUK
March 13th, 2009
11:27 am
TOJ – “Sob, snort. I don’t know what to do. This may be in his genes, but he didn’t get it from me!!!!”
oooo … I think I see a whole new season of “Intervention”!! “Monster cat, we’re worried about you.” “It’s not a problem – I can kick the nip anytime I want”
and, yes, Rhymes with Orange knows cats.
Okay, Mara – how did you do the italics???
Mara
March 13th, 2009
11:52 am
to italicize…I’m going to put a dash between each step so remember to remove them to make it work…
word or phrase
and no spaces between keystrokes.
The Other Jack
March 13th, 2009
12:11 pm
USinUK
The old woman that owns the house I want to buy is convinced that it is still 2006. She just backed out of the deal. I found out yesterday that the heating part of the heating and air was about to fail. I told her but didn’t renegotiate, but now she is backing out. She said that she really needs more money for it. Well good luck with that, Granny. I’m the only offer she has gotten in the 9 months it’s been on the block.
i like the location, but i could go to auctions and buy 5 houses like this one for what I am paying. The deal is falling apart. I may be living in a friend’s spare room if I don’t find something, fast. Is anything simple?
Mara
March 13th, 2009
12:15 pm
ah bull hockey. Okay I’ll type it out by word. I will try to put the character in parenthesis, but it may not go through…
‘Less-than arrow’(). Type in the word or phrase you want to italicize and then the ‘less-than’ arrow again ().
SpaceyG
March 13th, 2009
12:17 pm
Just what the world needs… even more fake sh*t. But I suppose pageant life is good for keeping relentlessly uncool losers and their hideous, creepy, perverted loser-parents, all off to one side. Together. They’ll be easier for the gulag round-up that way.
Mara
March 13th, 2009
12:19 pm
sigh
okay this is getting annoying. “less-than arrow” + “small case i” + “greater-than arrow” + word or phrase + “less-than arrow” + “back slash” + “lower case i” + “greater-than arrow” = italics
USinUK
March 13th, 2009
12:24 pm
raucous applause
well done, Mara! points for persistence
TOJ – “The deal is falling apart. I may be living in a friend’s spare room if I don’t find something, fast. Is anything simple?”
very few things worth having are simple – BUT, you’ll find the place you’re supposed to be – in a market like this one, you’ll find your perfect house and it’ll be SO much more affordable than it would have been 3 years ago!!
USinUK
March 13th, 2009
12:24 pm
shoot. italics overkill.
Bruno
March 13th, 2009
12:32 pm
“There’s a big difference between a competition based on skills/abilities and one based on how one looks and dresses”.
I agree with all of you that “beauty pageants” are, at the minimum, borderline strange, especially for children. At the same time, what say all of you regarding the “beauty pageant of life”??? There is no doubt in my mind that attractive women (and men) have far more opportunities presented to them, both professionally and most definitely romantically. I believe that there is likely more pressure on women to appear beautiful, hence the multi-billion dollar cosmetics industry.
One of the things I love about my GF is that she doesn’t wear any makeup at all.
Bruno
March 13th, 2009
12:43 pm
One last plea to my blog buddies: Buy some stocks while they are still so undervalued. I’m becoming more and more convinced that the market has hit bottom and will only go up from here, despite every effort from Obama and the Democrats to permanently ruin our economy.
Question for the Libs: Are all of you still so high on Obama and the Democratic leadership?? After less than two months, I think Obama is definitely in the running for “Worst President Ever”. I’m also getting more than a little sick of the #1 hypocrite of all time, Nancy Pelosi. She made a big point of castigating the various company executives for flying around in private jets while she does the same thing, all on my dime.
Mara
March 13th, 2009
12:48 pm
oooohhhhh emoticons work too?!! LOL!
USinUK
March 13th, 2009
12:51 pm
Brunooooooooooooooo –
didn’t you just start a new gig? how’s it treating you??
“At the same time, what say all of you regarding the “beauty pageant of life”???”
meh. natural selection, pure and simple – I have no problem with that. I just find the whole monetizing of it via beauty pagaents … well … icky where children are concerned. I mean – wigs for babies? false teeth for kids who have gaps where they’ve lost their baby teeth? hair dye, fake tan, GOBS of makeup … good grief. talk about misplaced parental priorities.
USinUK
March 13th, 2009
12:59 pm
“despite every effort from Obama and the Democrats to permanently ruin our economy”
yeah. well, we’re doing what we can…. mwaaaaahahahahaha!!! next stop – the American League, with their Designated Hitters!!! And, then – Pumpkin Pie! oh, yeah, we’re taking out the American way of life, one icon at a time.
srsly, B-dog. get a grip.
“Are all of you still so high on Obama and the Democratic leadership??”
I’ll take it ALL. DAY. LONG over what we suffered through 2001-2007/9. All. Day. Long. and twice on Sunday.
Mara
March 13th, 2009
1:05 pm
Bruno – After less than two months, I think Obama is definitely in the running for “Worst President Ever”.”
after less than two months you’re ready to label him a failure?! Frankly, I’m astonished at the rush to judgement. It seems to me that the problems facing this country took years and years to construct, yet for some reason, you think Obama could just walk into office, wave his hand, and fix everything?! Seriously? Wow. You guys really do believe your own hype, don’t you!? Just remember, it wasn’t the left that called him ‘messiah’…
Luckily, I think the rest of the country has a bit more pragmatism (not to mention patience) than you. Nate Silver says that polls are showing Obama having maybe 12-18 months until people start evaluating his performance. I’m certainly willing to give him at least six before condemning him.
Bruno
March 13th, 2009
1:11 pm
The new job is great, USinUK, at least so far. With the economy so tight, I’m fortunate to have a job at all, I guess. The owner is a cool guy, and a DeadHead to boot, so I think we’ll get along fine. In the office which I’m running, there is no internet access, so I will only be able to blog occasionally on my day off.
Per today’s topic, again, I agree with you, Mara, and the rest of the gang that child beauty pageants are bizzare, especially considering the extremes that the parents put their kids through, and all for what?? A trophy?? I saw on a TV show once that there are “pageant consultants” that parents pay thousands of dollars to for advice on hair styles, makeup, etc. Unreal.
At the same time, I brought up the fact that beauty does matter in the “real world” simply to put things in perspective. Whether directly or indirectly, I think every kid learns at an early age that appearance is paramount in terms of social standing. As crude as child beauty pageants are, they expose a truth that kids learn on their own anyway.
Because I needed braces, I was always extremely self-conscious about my appearance as a kid, and became very shy as a result. It wasn’t until my 20s that I could afford to buy the braces myself, so my social development was delayed somewhat.
American Woman
March 13th, 2009
1:13 pm
Oh, outraged ones: I make no secret that I’m no fan of Pelosi because she was Bush’s bestest buddy EVER – an enabler, not a voice of the people. However, the jet business is nonsense. Please go to Snopes dot com and enter “Pelosi Jet” for the breakdown on that sitch. (I’d post excerpts, but Snopes does not allow copy & paste.) The Speaker’s special flight arrangements are a post 9/11 security measure (for those in line for the Presidency in case of catastrophe) that Dennis Hastert also utilized. The non-stop request, also security-related, is due to the fact that her district is in CA, and stopping to re-fuel adds risk. This was not her decision. I wish she’d resign, too, but I’ll keep my reasons real.
Obama hasn’t even had two months in office. If you’re going to sling the WPE label around, you should at least wait until you have some actual historical facts on which to base it if you want anyone to take you seriously. Two months isn’t long enough to really know the person you’re SLEEPING with, let alone someone who’s way too busy to take your whiny phone calls. (Unless of course you have a crystal ball, read minds, and already know everything. In which case, please continue yammering; we can’t friggin wait to be enlightened.)
USinUK
March 13th, 2009
1:15 pm
Luckily, I think the rest of the country has a bit more pragmatism (not to mention patience) than you. Nate Silver says that polls are showing Obama having maybe 12-18 months until people start evaluating his performance. I’m certainly willing to give him at least six before condemning him.
PLUS, you forget that Congressional approval is at a 4-year high: http:// http://www.gallup.com/poll/ 116530/Approval-Congress-Hits-Four-Year-High-Fueled-Dems.aspx
and Obama is also doing better than Baby Bush did around the same time:
http:// edition.cnn.com/2009/ POLITICS/03/10/obama.ratings/
Bruno
March 13th, 2009
1:26 pm
“I’m astonished at the rush to judgment”
I’m just giving some of you here a taste of your own medicine, that’s all, Mara. Not one of you ever gave GWB a chance, as reflected by your own quotes and comments (”We all knew he was an idiot going into office…”) I’m willing to give Obama a few more months before labeling him the WPE. After all, it will take a monumental effort on his part to surpass the disastrous presidency of Jimmy Carter.
Seriously, though, the hypocrisy coming from the Left right now is more than nauseating. Here on W2W, all of you severely criticized Bush for the deficit spending the past 8 years, and rightly so. Then, in less than one month, YOUR guy eclipsed all of the deficit spending from the last 200+ years. It will take the rest of our lifetimes, and maybe those of our children and grandchildren to finish paying for all of the nonsense pork barrel projects masquerading as “stimulus spending”.
As for the “messiah” charge, can any of you deny the coordinated effort by the press to present Obama in the best possible light while doing all they could to make McCain look as bad as possible??? Several major news agencies have already admitted as much.
American Woman
March 13th, 2009
1:32 pm
Reality check: McCain made himself look bad. Not all of us get our “news” from interpreter pundits. Some of us WATCH and LISTEN for ourselves, and make our own decisions. Why is some people can’t be happy unless everyone around them is miserable? So sorry to disappoint.
Yes, things look BAD, don’t they? We’ve been getting used to that for years. Some of us are hoping that the new Captain might be able to turn the ship around before it sails off the edge of the planet. Would you have us throw the new Captain overboard before he has a chance to do that? How would THAT be smart?
Mara
March 13th, 2009
1:36 pm
Bruno, yes looks DO affect how people treat you…but pageants present a skewed vision of what ‘beauty’ is. I was a MESS when I was a kid. A real tree-climbin’, knee-scraping, dirt-playin’, engine tinkerin’ tom-boy. I was not an “attractive” child. But I wasn’t tarted up and paraded around like a 25-year-old so I wasn’t particularly aware of it. Eventually it became clear to me that there would always be girls prettier than I and girls who weren’t as fortunate. But that wasn’t something I was confronted with until my self-image was already pretty well formed. I don’t think that appearance should be something a four-five-six-year-old child should have to stress out about.
anyway, all y’all have a great weekend ’cause I’m outtie for now.
Bruno
March 13th, 2009
1:38 pm
“You think Obama could just walk into office, wave his hand, and fix everything?”
Of course not, Mara. Because frankly, no one could do that, nor should they even try. It’s not the place of the government in a free-market system to “fix” anything. Markets can only correct themselves, and all of this government interference will do nothing but prolong the problems–e.g the oversupply of houses on the market. No one wants to see the value of their home go down, but that’s what happens when supply exceeds demand. And all of the “price-fixing” schemes in the world can’t change that.
I’m running short of time, but will tryi to present a more detailed view of why I think the approach takes by Obama, Pelosi, et.al. is the worst possible “solution” to our current economic problems.
American Woman
March 13th, 2009
1:40 pm
Anyone else see the Cramer-on-Stewart interview last night? The guy’s only excuse was that he was “lied to” by CEOs, but then every other sentence was an admission of guilt. “We could have done better. We should do better. I know. How about if I start doing better?” Talk about media enablers! He was the champion of “get rich quick schemes are better than hard work!” What a turd, but at least he’s not trying to defend it anymore.
Mara
March 13th, 2009
1:47 pm
LOL! “I’m just giving some of you here a taste of your own medicine, that’s all, Mara. Not one of you ever gave GWB a chance…
LIES! Absolute LIES! George Dubya was viewed as pretty average before 9/11. He had up to 90% approval between 9/11 and the run-up to the Iraq War. You are welcome to take a look back, but I’m confident that the ‘Worst. President. EVER.’ meme didn’t come into play until AFTER he took his eyes off Bin Laden and instead, pushed us into the Iraq War.
Yes, by the end of his first term his image as a f*ck-up was well established and his legacy tarnished by incompetence and torture. But he earned the judgement, it wasn’t arbitrarily bestowed.
okay…NOW I’m outtie! LOL!
JustaJew
March 13th, 2009
3:02 pm
Hi all, sorry I haven’t posted lately but the major f—up of the economy means I work thrice as hard as I did before (I’m in the bankruptcy industry)
**If a child isn’t learning the right lessons and isn’t handling it well, then the parent would make a different decision. But make it based on fact, not fear**
What a novel idea Shaunti. I just wish the former administration would have heeded this advice….
JustaJew
March 13th, 2009
3:06 pm
ok, just read Mara’s instructions on how to use italics so…..
let’s see if this works
JustaJew
March 13th, 2009
3:06 pm
right on!
JustaJew
March 13th, 2009
3:07 pm
Thanks Mara!! Digging the instant posting too, whoopeee, we have truly entered the modern age!
Mango
March 13th, 2009
3:14 pm
Enter your comments here
Gandalf, the White!
March 13th, 2009
3:16 pm
So this blog is HTML Compliant?
Gandalf, the White!
March 13th, 2009
3:17 pm
EXPAT for every opening tag, you need a closing tag!
Gandalf, the White!
March 13th, 2009
3:19 pm
America need you Ronald Reagan! :->
lovelyliz
March 13th, 2009
3:19 pm
I have a coworker whose daughter lost her house because she couldn’t afford the rent, and she did moved back home. Of course that precious granddaughter is in at least a half dozen pagents every year and there’s alway $$$ for those entrance fees and at least 2 dresses/costumes for each one. She’s so proud!!!!!!!!!!
Gandalf, the White!
March 13th, 2009
3:20 pm
Nancy Pelosi sucks so bad I can’t understand why anyone would like her! She sucks the Donkey tube!
Gandalf, the White!
March 13th, 2009
3:22 pm
She took her back?
What a loser!
Gandalf, the White!
March 13th, 2009
3:31 pm
is this a good code?
Gandalf, the White!
March 13th, 2009
3:32 pm
how bout this?
Gandalf, the White!
March 13th, 2009
3:33 pm
Well Blink and Underline don’t work….
Gandalf, the White!
March 13th, 2009
3:33 pm
Gandalf, the White!
March 13th, 2009
3:34 pm
Gandalf, the White!
March 13th, 2009
3:34 pm
Gandalf, the White! ;-)
March 13th, 2009
3:35 pm
see if it works in name?
:-) Gandalf, the White!
March 13th, 2009
3:36 pm
not in the back….
:-) Gandalf, the White!
March 13th, 2009
3:37 pm
:-) Gandalf, the White!
March 13th, 2009
3:49 pm
Isn’t Shaunti lovely in her picture?
:-) Gandalf, the White!
March 13th, 2009
3:51 pm
Immoral or immortal? Are they held in Vahalla?
The Other Jack
March 13th, 2009
4:05 pm
Bruno
Let em have it. Wish I had time to join in.
Everybody,
Have a great weekend.
Via del toco la north druid hills
The Other Jack
March 13th, 2009
4:08 pm
Oh yea. My newest fun hobby is to set my GPS voice to Japanese. It says the street names so it is hysterical hearing the mix. I am also learning a little Japanese.
Bruno
March 13th, 2009
6:01 pm
“He had up to 90% approval between 9/11 and the run-up to the Iraq War”.
If you reread my post, Mara, I said that none of you **here** ever gave Bush a chance from the git-go based upon your blog comments. I made no comment about Bush’s general approval ratings.
“A real tree-climbin’, knee-scraping, dirt-playin’, engine tinkerin’ tom-boy”
What, are you trying to make me even hotter for you than I already am????
Bruno
March 13th, 2009
8:02 pm
I won’t be back for at least a week, so here’s a partial list of my concerns about the Obama Administration:
(1) Obama campaigned on eliminating wasteful government spending, then turned around and put the country deeper in debt in less than 60 days than Bush did in eight full years.
(2) Democrats complained that Bush used public fear as a tactic to push through his war agenda, then Obama turned around and did the same thing to push through his massive spending programs.
(3) Obama and the Democrats mocked McCain’s statement that we may be in Iraq for the next hundred years, but are now stating that we will keep an occupying force there indefinitely.
(4) Obama made a lot of political hay regarding the detainees at Guantanamo Bay, promising to immediately close the base and either try or release all the prisoners. Now that he’s in charge, it appears that he is going to continue the Bush policies there, other than “abandoning one of President George W. Bush’s key phrases in the war on terrorism: enemy combatant” according to an AP article released today.
(5) Democrats have made a lot of noise about spying on citizens without a search warrant, then Attorney General Eric Holder came out in solid suport of the FISA Amendments Act during his confirmation hearings, which coincidentally Obama voted for in July, 2008.
(6) Obama campaigned solidly against using torture as a tool to combat terrorism, and promised he would clean house and restore the good name of the US. Recently, however, “Representatives of the Obama administration appeared to insist that the lawsuit by five people against Boeing subsidiary Jeppesen Dataplan — which flew them on behalf of the United States Government to third-party nations to be tortured — must be withdrawn, and that no evidence whatsoever in the case could be considered. Why? Because the Obama administration says talking about the torture and the American role in it could damage national security by harming U.S. relations with other countries: “proceeding with this case would jeopardize national security and foreign relations.”
(7) Bush was roundly criticized for his “faith-based initiative” programs in which federal dollars are being given to groups
which discriminate based on religious affiliation. Obama promised that he would institute safeguards to ensure that the separation of church and state are not violated. But, “Obama has not kept that promise. He has expanded the government establishment of religion without placing any safeguards against that expanded theocratic power at all”
in establishing his Advisory Council on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships, which consists almost completely of religious leaders.
(8) Much ado was made about “closed door meetings” by Dick Cheney in formulating a National Energy Policy. Barely a month into the new administration, Joe Biden turned around and did the same thing by meeting with AFL-CIO leadership in private in order to formulate a new policy toward the establishment of unions in the work place.
(9) Over and over again, Obama criticized Bush for creating a political climate based on divisiveness, then stood by without comment when his chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, insulted all conservatives by claiming that Rush Limbaugh, a paid entertainer, “is the voice and the intellectual force and energy behind the Republican Party”. Personally, I doubt that Emanuel made those comments without the approval of Obama. Way to bring everyone together.
So, the next time any of you here try to lecture me that I’m “not giving Obama a fair chance”, remember what you told me the past 2 + years: Dissent is good.
Governor Caveman
March 14th, 2009
8:30 am
Well,well, we have another kunckle dragging political hack, who we all thought had a bit of scientific sense in that he is a Vet, go against the life saving stem cell issue. Just add another idiology idiot to the big circus called Georgia, one of the most backward states in the union! Uh, oh yes, I AM a christian!!!
Inmate30349
March 14th, 2009
12:34 pm
How do you compare sex between consenting adults and grown up beauty pageants for kids. Thank God I will never be able to understand the mentality of “Conservatives”.
Miranda
March 15th, 2009
3:04 am
Ahh Bruno, go ahead and whine for the next 8 years. Its actually kinda funny right now watching you right-wingers scowl and grimace. More fun for the rest of us. The GOP is going the way of the Whig party you’re so outta touch. Rush IS your leader and you know it, you absolutely know it and its hilarious! LMAO
JokesOn
March 15th, 2009
8:39 pm
Not “one of you” bruno? And you chastise me for speaking for everyone!
As for dissent, calling him possibly the worst prez yet is hardly “dissent.” And when any of us did voice dissent, we were called anti-american.
With us or againstus is what we heard for 8 years. I AM glad we are done with that rudimentary logic. At least we have a leader that is honest from the get-go. If Bush were in office, he would threaten all that opposed and remind us that HE is THE decider.
Big difference that you are purposely ignoring out of grudge or indoctrinated past.
Anyhoo – pointless discussion: if you wanted to talk and reason you would not be decidedly certain. Bummer….I thought more of you for a while (remember 3 weeks where you saw how polarizing the conservatives were?).
JokesOn
March 15th, 2009
8:42 pm
Test
JokesOn
March 15th, 2009
8:44 pm
Test2
JokesOn
March 15th, 2009
8:48 pm
Second to Last TestLast Test
Mara
March 16th, 2009
8:19 am
ahem…despite Bruno’s assertion to the contrary, he has no idea what my opinions were prior to 9/11 because I was not a member of this forum at that time. He may be correct about the opinions expressed at that time, but there are very, very few of the old guard still posting so it’s not exactly honest to say “none of you **here** ever gave Bush a chance from the git-go based upon your blog comments”.
Okay, on to other things. I had started out rebutting Bruno’s points item by item then realized that if he wasn’t going to be here for the next couple weeks, it was just an act of futility. So all I’m going to say is that two months into an administration is waaaay too early to allege broken campaign promises simply because Obama hasn’t gotten around to doing everything he’s promised. He MAY be as bad as he’s being portrayed by the rightwing media, or he may not be. I suggest it is simply too soon to make such judgements.
Dissent is good and should be welcome, but…dissent does not mean you get to make up your own version of the facts. Take Biden’s “secret” meeting with the AFL-CIO for example. Exactly how secret could it have been when the WH post the transcript of his speech on line and reporters are allowed into the executive council meeting for the first time in history?! – mediamatters.org/items/200903060011
Another example? There are many conservatives are NOT part of the Republican party how is it an insult to all conservatives to say that Limbaugh speaks for the Republicans? I could see how all REPUBLICANS might find it insulting, but “all conservatives”? Maybe not so much.
Pat
March 16th, 2009
8:59 am
“Kiddie beauty pageants” are indeed a “no-brainer” – supported only by the brainless. Nice try, Shaunti, equating cheerleading with disgusting over-sexualized displays of teeny tots – even you don’t sound convinced. OK, some clarification for morons, stating the obvious: If you dress your cheerleading toddler like a hooker and she does dance routines that look like they were crafted for the stage of the Cheetah Lounge, then yes, cheerleading can be considered equally bad. All moms of girls have to be vigilant against exploitation of their daughters; where tot pageants go so horribly off the moral rails is the deliberate molding of very young children to adult sexual tastes. For what POSSIBLE purpose would a so-called “conservative” who purports to be a “woman of faith” defend them? Well, to me, this is one of those, “If the liberal’s against it, it must deserve my support.” Go take a shower Shaunti, have a cup of tea, and see if you can regain your common sense.
lovelyliz
March 16th, 2009
9:12 am
I am sure there are women out there for whom being in a pagent made THE difference in their lives. I don’t personally know any of them. Who I do know are women who peaked and it’s been downhill ever since
The Other Jack
March 16th, 2009
9:16 am
Mara
Yes, by the end of his first term his image as a f*ck-up was well established
That was well established by the main stream media and bought hook line and sinker and the liberal left and unfortunately the less informed of the general population. This is the same media that failed to mention during a two year campaign for the white house that the congress has been under the rule of Pelosi and Reid ever since the economy started falling apart.
Bruno
Excellent points. It’s like returning to the days of Clinton. Hypocrisy is the norm and all those promises that we made during the campaign? Well, we ARE Democrats and they WERE campaign promises. If the American People were dumb enough to believe us, then they deserve us.
The Other Jack
March 16th, 2009
9:34 am
USinUK
The Zombie shoot was a blast. I ended up shooting and using my small jib arm and my new HD camera. They got to East Atlanta village at 5:30 AM and by the time the shoot started at about 10AM, most of the Zombies had been slamming vodka and beer. There were a few serious actors but most of the zombies (about 40 showed up) were just completely falling down hammered by the time we started rolling. This made them GREAT zombies. Stumbling and falling down is what zombies do so this worked out great.
Everybody was nice except for a couple of drunk chicks who hated it when the director would yell “Quiet on the set!” which would inspire them to help out by yelling at everybody. Other than that, it was a lot of fun for everybody and we got great footage. I shot a lot of behind the scene stuff. I am thinking about posting a U-Tube piece about the making of a Zombie film. I have some really funny stuff. If I do it, I’ll post a link.
Mara
March 16th, 2009
9:42 am
tumbleweed
Lyrazel
March 16th, 2009
9:44 am
Wow! I feel the world has been dusted in Pledge.
I guess the worst thing for the two writers of commentary is their column is cut in half and few if any will ever read the total are what they wrote. I am ok with the half a commentary.
Per subject
I was in Fargo ND for some reason back when and the hotel I was at was having the Little Miss ND pageant and it was by far the creepiest event I had ever been on the sidelines to view. Hundreds of little girls no older than six all in make up and fancy dresses with abundant petticoats. What disturbed me most were the moms–decked out in spangly dresses identical dress with their kids–(O never get into an elevator with 10 moms & daughters and perfumed makeup and perfumes and perfumed hair–gag!) There was even the Littlest Miss Pageant being one where girls who had scarcely learned to walk were dolled up and pretending pageant.
Now this was before J.B.Ramsey–(Around 74 before most of you were born) and before pedophile lists–but there were a lot of men at this shindig. It was obvious they were not fathers or judges.
To make my overlong story short–I did not see a girl crying, upset, complaining about being there (unlike me who felt I had entered the Twilight Zone). The children all seemed happy and played with each other–had a good time with lots of treats and kid party stuff.
Monica
March 16th, 2009
10:37 am
Kiddie pageants are nothing more than child prostitution. What parent in their right mind dresses their 4 year old like a 25 year old and parades her around in front of complete and total strangers?
USinUK
March 16th, 2009
10:43 am
TOJ –
woowoo!!! sounds like the shoot was a blast – did your nephew/niece-in-law make it, or were you the only one from your tribe looking for brains??? what a great way to spend a Saturday morning (although, shots that early??? eeeeee … not since I was in my 20s … I’d need a nap by the time they would be ready to shoot!)
do you know the name of the movie, so I can tell the Mister and we can keep an eye out for it?
otherwise, how was the weekend? it was GORGEOUS here!! all the daffs are out, I’m seeing buds on my hydrangea, I was able to go out at lunch today without a jacket … honey. I’ve got the fever. and I’m not talking for the flavor of a Pringles.
3 more days and I’m DC BOUND, BABBEEE!!! then, Atlanta. I checked accuweather.com yesterday and it looks like the weather is going to be PERFECT the week I’m there. thanks to you and all the W2Wers for making that possible (I know you guys pulled strings – and I appreciate it)
The Other Jack
March 16th, 2009
10:43 am
Lyrazel
I was conned into video taping a pageant when I first moved here. Atlanta was the Mecca of kiddie pageants. It was creepy. And you are right about the fumes from the scented everything. It was at the Hyatt, downtown and there didn’t even need to be a person in the elevator. They all smelled like a hundred different chemicals, all created to smell good, but the mix would gag a dead man. I can’t imagine what those chemicals do to a little girl’s skin and lungs.
The Mom’s were basically playing with dolls. And while some of the mom’s appeared to be ex-pageant contestants, most would have never been in a beauty pageant. Talk about living vicariously.
The problem i have with calling this child abuse is this: I was a news videographer: I’ve seen real child abuse. I’ve seen eyes black, broken bones, death, car wrecks where the kid was standing in the front seat when thir Mom hit a telephone pole. The depths of evil that is involved when a person abuses a child is sometimes beyond understanding.
That’s child abuse. Calling pageants child abuse diminishes what it really is. I have no problem with children competing. We compete our entire lives. It is how we can find our calling. But because of the massive money that is sometimes riding on these pageants, that is just too much pressure on the kids. They take too much time and they teach the wrong things, but child abuse? Will we ever stop changing definitions of words to match our needs?
The Other Jack
March 16th, 2009
10:55 am
Joke
Obama appointed as chief of staff: Rahm Emanuel, one of the most divisive and hard core political hatchet men in the history of the planet. As we see Obama drop the ball over and over and we watch him being manipulated by a power hungry leftest Congress as he signs away our grandchildren’s inheritance (So far, $19,000/American household, and he hasn’t been in office for 100 days, yet.), watch for more EXTREMELY polarizing campaigns to be launched by the rebirth of Clinton’s old hatchet men.
When the fascists take over, they will first manipulate the capitalist system, diverting power from the people to the government, they will control the majority of the media and they will use their unlimited power to silence their opposition.
Please explain what part of that last sentence isn’t happening right now.
The Other Jack
March 16th, 2009
10:58 am
USinUK
I didn’t show up until almost 9. I was shooting so I didn’t need to be made up.
The film was a short, I think it will appear in the Atlanta Film Festival, but I don’t know for sure. I think a short about making the short would be a better flick. I’m just slammed right now.
Weather was dreary and misty, perfect zombie weather.
JustaJew
March 16th, 2009
11:06 am
TOJ, there are many forms of child abuse. I’m with you in that it’s not physical (that doesn’t look right, did I spell that right?)abuse but I could see emotional or mental…depending on how it’s handled. Of course, the parents should be run over with a mack truck but ignorance is bliss and for some of the girls this is just a chance to play elaborate dress up and for others (again depending on how the parents behave)it’s like being in a pressure cooker and that definitely qualifies as abuse.
USinUK
March 16th, 2009
11:31 am
TOJ –
“Obama appointed as chief of staff: Rahm Emanuel, one of the most divisive and hard core political hatchet men in the history of the planet”
yep. and then he’s turned around and had numerous meetings with the GOP, reached out to the GOP, APPOINTED members of the GOP to his cabinet … only to have his hand bitten off by the GOP. so, you can complain about Rahm all you want, but your guys are the ones who are pooping in the punch bowl, not the Administration.
“When the fascists take over, they will first manipulate the capitalist system, diverting power from the people to the government, they will control the majority of the media and they will use their unlimited power to silence their opposition. Please explain what part of that last sentence isn’t happening right now.”
manipulate the capitalist system? really? please, define – I want to hear what YOU consider “manipulation”.
as far as “controlling the media” – all I can think is that you jsut don’t watch much other than FOX. you have Dick Cheney on CNN saying that Obama is going to lead us into another attack, you have Ari Fleisher STILL peddling the Saddam-9/11 link on MSNBC … this is “control”???
if that’s control, then they are DREADFUL at it.
Mara
March 16th, 2009
11:53 am
As we see Obama drop the ball over and over and we watch him being manipulated by a power hungry leftest Congress as he signs away our grandchildren’s inheritance…
perhaps this is how it’s viewed from the right because YOUR guy distorted presidential powers so much. Legislation is SUPPOSED to come from the Legislature and not the Executive. Actually, the President is supposed to set the broad agenda, Congress writes the legislation (hence, the ‘legislative branch’), and then the President either signs it or vetos it.
He’s not being ‘manipulated’, he’s abiding by the Constitutional limits of his power.
Archie
March 16th, 2009
12:39 pm
My answer to the topic question is no.
Now I would like to say I was impressed with all of the ladies last week in responding to my questions on self-defense,etc. I didn’t get to read all the answers because of work.
As for governor,Mark Sanford, he is getting blasted by the editorial board of The State, which is the largest newspaper in Columbia, every other day. Anyway I won’t post much on this topic because I no longer have a little, little girl.
The Other Jack
March 16th, 2009
12:48 pm
JustAJew
I understand what you are saying but, you have to be careful not to let the cultural setting sway your perspective. This is mostly middle America, almost cowboy mentality. We have been taught that this is all bad, but being a beauty queen in Omaha is not considered a bad thing. These little girls have stars in their eyes and maybe that is wrong, but their little brothers may be looking at being a fighter pilot or a race car driver, but why isn’t that considered wrong?
I consider the pressure the abusive part, but that’s just because of what is at stake. The sad thing is that they are all given stupid little cheap trophies, so most of the younger ones have no idea that they were voted most likely to become slightly less hideous.
The problem is when they stop playing dress up and you have these nine year olds. dressed up like hookers who are dead serious about winning the BIG trophy. My kids competed a bunch and they lost a bunch, but it told them what they were good at. They were certainly not in any beauty pageants, but they were deeply involved in music and the arts and my little girls took marshall arts.
Competition is not bad. Putting all that crap on those little giirl’s hair. That’s bad.
Betsy
March 16th, 2009
1:03 pm
I’ve seen some of the recent TV shows about kiddie beauty pageants. Whether they are abusive or not depends on the parent. I saw a determined parent whose 2-year-old was whiny and uncooperative back state and adorable on-stage. On-stage lasted about a minute and back stage, well. Another parent, whose child did not win, angrily said her child would never compete again and she was going to have to go home and tell her child that the judges thought she wasn’t pretty. Aside from the obvious – that isn’t what the judges thought – she apparently will teach her daughter that if she doesn’t win, the decision wasn’t fair, the cards are against her, etc. When dad asked the child if she had fun, the girl readily said “yes.” Go figure. Some little princesses apparently love being made up and somehow equate their participation to Hannah Montana or High School Musical, but many times the “make up” is so overdone as to be grotesque, a la Jon Benet Ramsey. If parents want to spend thousands on entry fees, costumes, hairdressers and coaches, fine, it’s their money. But aren’t they teaching them that beauty is what matters above all, and money spent to be more beautiful is fine, even at some sacrifice? How is it different from a child who wants to be a fighter pilot? Well, one takes a learned skill and hard work; one takes money, just money, and values what? Most of these families have other children. How is this a good lesson for them? Okay, it’s a competition, but what is it judging? No, I think they are awful for the kids and the mothers tend to be, with a rare exception, Momzillas, regardless of what they may think.
The Other Jack
March 16th, 2009
1:24 pm
USinUk
Who cares that they had meetings. The GOP leaders were basically called on the rug to be told “”the way it was going to be”. There’s two sides to every story. “The Punch Bowl” is already poop. How can anyone rationalize this much money being spent at one time on projects that won’t even be enacted for years?
If you don’t think this is a play for power, take a look at what is happening to AIG. “The People” now have a say in how that company does business. It gives a whole new meaning to the term “Public Company”. The power shift where our elected representatives have a say in who gets a bonus with an insurance company, and you don’t think this is the biggest power grab in the history of the world?
This kind of money and power has never changed hands before. The complete idiots that we have made fun of for years that run our Congress have taken power that they will never give up. Please!!!! For the love of God. Pay attention to what is happening. $19,000 per American household!!!! That’s how much we will pay for the spending during THE FIRST 60 DAYS!!!!!!! They are tallking about another “stimulas package”.
Please consider for a minute. Just think back in time and try to remember when the world’s most powerful government was taken over by power hungry people who insisted on controlling everything, insisted on changing laws and policies where they controlled all the finances.
When has that ever turned out for the good?
As far as the medis, give me a break.
ABC The most powerful Political voice on the network was Bill Clinton’s “Boy” while he was in the White house.
CBS The most trusted anchor and the most powerful producer lose their jobs because they keep insisting that just because a source wasn’t double verified, that it didn’t mean that it wasn’t true. And of course it all happened to center around a Republican President. I’m amazed that the network took action.
NBC Where do I start? SNL does such a nasty and hard hitting mockery of the Republican Vice Presidential candidate, that she wins several awards for quotes attributed to Palin, which she never said. GE, the parent company will make billions from the new stimulas biil.
CNN The founder, Ted Turner. Really enough said, but as I woke up this morning, I heard that a former CNN reporter has just been made the Marxist leader of a South American Country.
I honestly have stopped watching TV. It has become such a complete Gobbels syle info-fascist machine that I can’t watch it.
I was hoping that the shift of power would call off the dogs, but did you see what was just done with the Rush Limbaugh effort on behalf of the media? When before has Rush Limbaugh gotten so much attention?
The Other Jack
March 16th, 2009
2:04 pm
Mara
I took civics class, but thanks. I know that he is a puppet. The course was set in 2007, now they (The Congress) just have smooth sailing.
You didn’t address any issues about the shift of power and the spending of more money at one time than anytime in the history of the world. You do understand that power shift is from the people to the government, don’t you?
AW
March 16th, 2009
2:17 pm
TOJ, seriously… don’t you get tired of that same old whine? CNN gave Glen Beck his own show in Prime Time. Lou Dobbs can’t go five minutes without turning apoplectic on the issue of illegal immigration. Nancy Grace is ready to fry everyone accused of anything. Larry King might be a “liberal” in your eyes, but he gives people of all backgrounds and affiliations a chance to be heard in their own words. Clark Howard ROCKS on CNN now!
Reality check: SNL makes fun of everybody. That people tuned in to the totally NOT funny show to watch the Palin parody says more about our shock at finding her on the ticket than any hidden agenda. The material wrote itself. MSNBC not only hosts uber-libs Olbermann and Maddow, but also Joe Scarborough, former REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN (who never wants to talk about the young woman who DIED IN HIS OFFICE under mysterious circumstances, swept under the rug by a medial examiner brought in from another jurisdiction by Gov. Jeb.) He gives ZERO news in his morning show — only boatloads of analysis and shouting. Chris Matthews couldn’t be a bigger WH-O-RE if he did the broadcast in fishnets and stilettos. The network libs you ramble on about are STILL giving Cheney a chance to put his face on the tube and yammer that it’s not Bush’s fault, while failing as always to ask any REAL questions. And speaking of REAL questions, “WHAT DO YOU READ?” is NOT a “Gotcha” question when asked of a vice presidential candidate. That the ditz could not answer is not a reflection on Couric! Puh-leeeeze. The “Goebbels style” label doesn’t apply. At worst, they’re sorry wh-o-res, and at best, they’re not really trying to be journalists.
To answer your RL question, AS A MOMMY, Limbaugh got my attention when he went on his short-lived television show and called Chelsea Clinton “The White House Dog.” I can’t imagine that you, a proud papa to a girl child, weren’t then and aren’t now still DISGUSTED at a grown man who’d humiliate ANY 13-year-old girl for being in her awkward stage. The man has no credibility whatsoever except for what the Republitard faithful give him. Those who keep applauding the lying, pill addicted hypocrite are earning every drop of scorn they get from thinking people.
Good day! (Shout out to the late PH, also a lying wh-o-re.)
USinUK
March 16th, 2009
3:43 pm
would someone please pass TOJ some smelling salts … I think he’s having a case of the vapors …
TOJ – in random order:
1) spending. you do realize, don’t you, that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have NEVER been included in any formal budget – they’ve always gone through emergency spending procedures. they also add up to more than the total of the stimulus package. so the whole “Obama has driven us further into debt than Bush” BS holds no water.
2) leftists in central america???!!! NO!! I’m shocked to find gambling in this establishment.
3) SNL/Tina Fey. “I can see Alaska from my house” is probably the funniest line to have come out of the presidential campaign. and, yet again, you seem to have difficulties understanding the difference between entertainment/satire and news. But, I’m sure you have NO problem with the fact that your side still likes to mock Al Gore for saying that he invented the internet – DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE NEVER SAID THAT. Sarah Palin may not be an idiot, but she sure as HELL plays one on teevee (even folks with a PhD in English would be hard pressed to diagram her syntax-challenged run-on sentences). your guy picked her – and what a win she turned out to be for your side.
4) “Please consider for a minute. Just think back in time and try to remember when the world’s most powerful government was taken over by power hungry people who insisted on controlling everything, insisted on changing laws and policies where they controlled all the finances.”
you mean January 21, 2001? yeah. I remember that well … both recessions and the record budget surplus that rapidly became a deficit.
5) the “liberal media” canard. So what, ABC has Stephanopolis – as AW pointed out – MSNBC has Scarborough. The WaPo has Bush’s former speechwriter write their op-eds. Ross Douthat has now joined the NYTimes. really. “liberal media” label is soooooo 1990s and really doesn’t have any credence anymore. Joshua “my mommy got me this job” Goldberg is an oped contributor for USA Today.
Frustrated
March 16th, 2009
4:00 pm
I think calling beauty pageants child abuse is a bit over the line. I am not saying I agree with the over done hair dos and make-up, but if the girls enjoy it, then why not let them do it? It is my understanding that pageants come along with “talent shows” to showcase your special abilities. So it isn’t based on looks alone (or shouldn’t be anyway)….
A child that is put into martial arts or boxing at a young age isn’t necessarily going to have anger problems or be a bully in school…so why does everyone think that dressing up and prissing around every weekend are automatically going to ruin their self-esteem??
IMO, it all comes down to the parents. Are you supporting in the right way or wrong? Are you telling them they did a great job coming in last place or only when they come home with a trophy? I think every child needs competition, not every child has athletic abilities or are good with instruments. If prancing down a runway is what little girls need to be ambitious about acheiving their goals, then so be it.
Shame on the judges and parents for letting the make-up, faux fixtures, etc get in the way of what really matters…..
The Other Jack
March 16th, 2009
4:05 pm
I didn’t think any of you were going to agree and all of you avoided adressing the central point that it is the largest power transfer in the history of the world. 9-11 did not transfer power of private institutions to the Federal government. It doesn’t even compare.
The Iraq War? A fraction of the money spent in the first 60 days, but the same people who were ready to die to illustrate the point of 300 billion being spent is now yawning off trillions. The hypocrasy is overwhelming.
You just don’t get it. I have liberal friends that were huge Obama supporters and they are so upset that they will not even discuss what is happening.
What are you going to tell your grandchildren about the part that you played in the biggest power grab in history?
And yes, Glen Back was on CNN under their extremely strict rules until FOX offered less money but no rules. If you honestly can’t see a bias, I’m not about to tackle that one. You either see it or you don’t.
I’ll talk about whatever you want, but I see what is happening in Washington as something apocalyptic. Everything you see is a slight of hand to divert attention from the power grab. It isn’t so bad that you don’t see it. It isn’t terrible that you condone it. But it is horrible that you defend it.
USinUK
March 17th, 2009
1:47 am
is it me, or does the “future AIG exec” in today’s Luckovich cartoon look like Kim Jong Il?
TOJ –
“9-11 did not transfer power of private institutions to the Federal government. It doesn’t even compare.”
yep. you’re right. the federal government is taking over the planet one AIG at a time (the feds can’t even control their bonus payments, but, yeah, they’ve made a total “power play”)
spending in Iraq and Afghanistan between 2001 and 2007 = $602 billion according to the CBO (http://www. cbo.gov/ ftpdocs/84xx/doc8497/07-30-WarCosts_Testimony.pdf). that doesn’t include the “surge” nor does it include the spending for FY 2008. so, “a fraction”??? at least the money spent in the first 60 days is on THIS country and THIS country’s needs and infrastructure.
“You just don’t get it. I have liberal friends that were huge Obama supporters and they are so upset that they will not even discuss what is happening.”
with you. considering your hyperventalating reaction above, I wonder why …
“What are you going to tell your grandchildren about the part that you played in the biggest power grab in history?”
that it was nothing compared to the shredding of the Constitution during the previous administration. (not to mention, you seem to forget that the bailouts of these companies happened BEFORE Obama took office – AIG, Citi, etc – this started LAST FALL)
“But it is horrible that you defend it.”
not nearly as horrible … or “apocolyptic” … as it would be had the banking system totally collapsed.
American Woman wearing green
March 17th, 2009
8:29 am
Hey USinUK! Do they have St. Patrick’s Day parades in London? Do they drink to excess? Or do they ignore the Irish there? Ever see the movie “The Commitments?” LOVED IT!
The ongoing discussion with the hyperventilator is pointless. If Obama were actually JESUS HIMSELF (untwist your panties, fellows, I never said he was) but if he WERE, it would not matter to those who’d rather huff and puff and shriek that it’s the end of the world than face the reality that their boys effed things up and somebody has to try to fix it, and it may or may not work, but most of us are hoping that it will. It’s our HOPE that they object to, since some people aren’t happy unless everyone else is as miserable as they are. Point.Less. But that’s just my opinion.
The Other Jack
March 17th, 2009
8:41 am
USinUk
So basically, you are rationalizing the biggest power shift in history by comparing the actions of this president with the actions of the last president. I didn’t think that you respected GW Bush that much.
So since everything is in multiples of what Bush did, will Obama be multiples worse of the person that you guys consider the worst president in history?
Shreding of the Constitution? LOL!!!! What, so we could wiretap, something that has been actively done since since telephones were invented? No. Shredding the Constitution was dione when courts decided that the right to worship should be turned into a reason to restrict a person’s right to worship depeding on where they are standing. Now that is some REAL Constitution shredding
.
Or maybe our pathetic little attempt at scaring the bad guys by getting them all wet and keeping them up at night? Poor babies. And that is worse than what Pelosi and Reid have done to the economy since 2007. You do realize that they WERE IN CHARGE, don’t you? Now please send me a dozen articles from MSNBC, claiming that it really wasn’t anyone’s fault. It just happened. Or how about Barney Frank, demanding heads on platters. LOL!! Are people really dumb enough to buy his crap? Does any liberal realize that his head would be the first?
Do you even begin to understand that the people that you guys support are the best politicians in the world? Do you even begin to understand the shell games and the slight of hand that they are pulling with the help of the MSM? Rush Limbaugh becomes the biggest story on the week that the DOW drops thousands and you guys just go along with it. “I guess it’s reeeeal important that we all know about Rush Limbaugh and how important he is to the mean old republicans. . . hey what happened to my retirement?”
So if that train wasn’t built from Vegas to Disneyland, the banks would have collapsed? Wow, you sure know a lot more about the economy than I do. I would think that it was just a Pork project to give Harry Reid more power, but you are reeeal smart so you must be right.
USinUK, meet reality, reality, met USinUK/.