‘Over-signing’ just one issue to be addressed at SEC Meetings

Destin, Fla. – Greetings from the Emerald Coast. I’m covering the SEC Spring Meetings this week at the Sandestin Hilton. It’s the yearly gathering of the league’s presidents, athletic directors and coaches.

It’s expected to be an eventful week. Perhaps you’ve heard a thing or two about something called “over-signing?” Well, they’re supposed to introduce legistlation here this week that will outlaw that practice and address other issues regarding “roster management,” including grayshirting and midyear and summer enrollment.

But that’s not all. There are several proposed changes for men’s basketball, including the elimination of divisions from the tournament seeding process and expanding the conference schedule to 18 or more games. And other stuff. Here’s a link to a summary of topics expected to be discussed over the next four days.

In the meantime, I’m hoping to get an audience with Georgia coaches Mark Richt and Mark Fox later this morning. Why don’t you let me know if there are any specific questions you’d like for me to ask them? If they’re reasonable I’ll try to get them answered for you.

Check back here all day for news updates.

81 comments Add your comment

82Dawg

May 31st, 2011
7:49 am

Well said 65dawg…

65dawg

May 31st, 2011
7:50 am

Herschel Talker, You sir are an idiot!

sec fan

May 31st, 2011
7:57 am

Now how can Slive kill any oversigning legislation and make it look like he is for a change? He can come up with a complicated massive change to several things and bundle it all together. Something in there for everyone not to like. The proposal dies and Slive says ‘awe shucks’. Champions of oversigning like Saban can say ‘we were trying to boil the ocean and it just didn’t pass’. Oversigning definately gives the SEC a competitive edge and gutless Slive sure isn’t going to change that. Saban will continue to lead the nation in medical scholarships and transfers and his lemmings will point out that winning is far more important than morals or ethics.

Max Sizemore

May 31st, 2011
7:57 am

For Richt: When Tech scored from the 1 1/2 yard line last November and UGA left both offensive guards uncovered, was that the called defense or did it line up incorrectly?

Paul N Destin

May 31st, 2011
7:59 am

SEC fan…cry us a river sport. Saban will still your lunch and make you pay for it anyway. You run that mouth about stuff you have no clue at Alabama.

TommyP

May 31st, 2011
8:06 am

Chip:

Ask Richt about the trend to go to morning practices during summer. Will UGA be doing the same thing and, if so, is he concerned about how the team will react to the heat in Game 2 vs. SC?

Ask Fox if the Dawgs will speed up the tempo with technically 3 guards playing and smaller posts. What are a few things he’ll do differently in running the fast break as compared to the past couple of seasons?

sec fan

May 31st, 2011
8:09 am

Didn’t know they had trailer parks in Destin.

Bitter "ROUGE BOOSTER"

May 31st, 2011
8:25 am

over-signing cannot be tollerated anymore—–ps–banning someone from the recruiting site

just because they offer a point of view that new recruiting guy does not agree with

———————well i guess life aint fair——————why are so many top 2012 recruits

———————————–leaving the state????—-where is tech in the recruiting wars????

———————bring back jim donnan to run the recruiting dept!!!!!!—just saying

big ten fan

May 31st, 2011
8:41 am

It’s a beautiful day in MY neighborhood.

DC

May 31st, 2011
8:43 am

I don’t like over-signing but I don’t think its the reason why SEC is 5-5 in championship games…AU hasn’t oversigned…(i’ll wait for the jokes)..Don’t think LSU oversigned either…you uga fans would know more on FL..we all know who the oversign kings are of the SEC…BAMA, MISS, USCe

AltamahaDawg

May 31st, 2011
8:50 am

Definitely stop that divisional seeding. I remember when even a couple of Felton’s teams would have have been higher than the West #2.

Charlie Brown

May 31st, 2011
8:51 am

Starting comments today are a little confusing. Apparently, Hershel Talker said something a couple of posters didn’t like but “Talker’s’ comment has been removed. Why not just screen all posts before they appear?

Comment deleted

May 31st, 2011
8:56 am

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Comments are closed

May 31st, 2011
8:57 am

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Da Bear

May 31st, 2011
9:01 am

Richt scrapping two a days last year was just plain stupid. Got make men outta of boys. Put’em in the heat with less water. Too many out of shape kids these days.

RS

May 31st, 2011
9:06 am

Saban cheats all the time.Thats why he failed in the NFL.He could not.

te29wr

May 31st, 2011
9:06 am

Hi SEC FAN
Look at the spelling and the cute way PaulN Destin writes and you can see why he is an ALA fan

boog

May 31st, 2011
9:12 am

Here is my question: Oversigning is not the only problem but rather the running off of players to open up scholarships. Players are being pressured to take medical hardships. This should be investigated. More scrutiny is needed for some of these practices. Saban has to run off almost a dozen players to make his numbers work. This is the real problem. If they put a cap at 25 and 85 that will not stop Saban and others from pressuring players to take hardships.

MikeP

May 31st, 2011
9:13 am

The proposal posted elsewhere here, a strict limit of 25 signees per year, will NOT address the main problem, which is getting rid of current players that are under-performing in order to make room for a new prospect. There is already a rule that a school can’t enroll more than 25 per recruiting year.

The solution won’t be easy and anybody that proposes a simple solution either hasn’t done his homework or else just wants to yell to hear himself.

“Roster management” is a much better term for addressing the problems than “oversigning”, which seems to mean different things to many different people.

Lowcountry Bulldawg

May 31st, 2011
9:21 am

Chip,

Outside of IC and his expected immediate impact at RB ask CMR if he has any expectations of any other True Frosh coming in and contributing more than your typical Frosh. Is so would he give specifically who and what it is about said player that makes him believe that.

decatur dawg

May 31st, 2011
9:22 am

Max Sizemore – who won the freaking game. Idiot.

MikeP

May 31st, 2011
9:24 am

Well, there is one solution that’s rather simple but it would be expensive: Do away with the overall 85 limit and leave everything else the way it is. Presto, you’ve removed the necessity for pressuring players to leave the team.

The college presidents, through the NCAA, voted in the 85 limit as a cost cutting measure. Let ‘em vote it out as a humane measure, if they’ve got the guts and $ to do that.

It Ain't Rocket Science

May 31st, 2011
9:32 am

I don’t think the over signing issue will be solved at these meetings. Chip, How many votes does it take for the SEC to change something for its conference? Is it a simple majority or 2/3rds? I don’t see it happening this year or any year until the NCAA comes down with a rule and makes it uniform for all schools in the NCAA to be under the same rules. If it goes on big time in the SEC, and I am not sure how big the problem is, it just gives other conferences more fuel to use against the SEC when the SEC school beats them in a game. Solve the problem by letting the SEC expand and then, the vast amount of talent available in the SEC member states can be spread around a bit more. Of course that would probably not really hurt some of those that recruit well and once they win a big time game, those recruits all think that is the only place to go anyway.

It Ain't Rocket Science

May 31st, 2011
9:33 am

Mike P,

If they do that, how will some of the smaller schools compete with the big ones that have a monster budget. How would that be fair, to say, the GT program, with their higher admission standards? The NCAA just needs to step in and make all of it’s member schools follow the same rules if it is a big time problem. The emphasis still needs to be the student athlete though, so who knows what will happen.

Dawglasville

May 31st, 2011
9:38 am

I think that the phrase “plantation mentality” is over used but this over signing business is just that. I know that plantation mentality conjures up visions of poor black kids being treated like cattle but I’m pretty sure that there are plenty of white kids that are getting the shaft too. This practice is immoral and it has to stop.

5$ Dawg

May 31st, 2011
9:38 am

@MikeP – I think Title IX would put a dent in that plan. Repealing Title IX would give more kids more opportunities.

schmeckdawg

May 31st, 2011
9:51 am

White sandy beaches, crystal clear water and talking college football. I haven’t been on a vacation in 8 years so I am really hating you right now Chip!!!!!

Give CMR a big Hunker Down for me!!!!!

cattle dawg

May 31st, 2011
10:00 am

Chip, ask CMR to not pull out any special uniforms tricks till he wins the sec again.

1eyedJack

May 31st, 2011
10:09 am

Chip, could you ask CMR if he feels comfortable enough with Murray and the offense to run the no huddle some this year?

Also, ask him what he plans to do differently this summer to get the team ready to play Boise St?

Lee Greene

May 31st, 2011
10:20 am

You could ask CMR how does he expect the NFL lockout to affect college football as a whole and how does he think it will affect the Bulldogs and the current senior class if it lasts deep into the season.

It Ain't Rocket Science

May 31st, 2011
10:24 am

Cattle Dawg,

I don’t care if they wear speedos and pads if that is what he needs to do to motivate them, LOL.
It is the kid in the uniform that makes the difference, not the color of the uniform. Well, maybe we could stop short of the camos that Oregon practiced in.

7576DAWG

May 31st, 2011
10:42 am

Chip
Last year Murray only looked real bad in 2 of our 7 losses , the Florida game and the UCF game. What does both have in common? They are both from the state of Florida. Murray choked in both games , badly, because he wanted to win so bad. He hurried everything and had more interception than any other two games all years. He tried to force passes that he had not done all year. UGA clearly had the best team at both games but we beat ourselves. That being the fact ,
Ask CMR if he would consider getting LeMay enough playing time in, that he can take over for Murray this year if he is still not able to control his emotions when he plays against a team from his home state?

Slammer-Jammer Satan

May 31st, 2011
10:45 am

How dare you mess with my winning formula. Yeah I know I’m bending the intent of the current rules. And exploiting some of my players.

BUT I’m all about winning Championships here.

it is what it is

May 31st, 2011
10:48 am

SABAN could make history being the only coach to be saddled with NCAA sanctions at both Alabama and LSU and why did he haul backside to and from the Miami Dolphins, self righteous hypocrites, yep, SABAN’s day is coming when Slivebag cannot protect his precious SEC much longer

murfdawg

May 31st, 2011
10:59 am

Ask Slive if he and Delaney, (Big 2 +8+1+1) comm, are going to secede from the NCAA and start a Super Conference that will pay the players, have unlimited scholarships, have a playoff and make more money for the schools than ever before. I think someday this will happen when the schools get tired of all the minutia they have to put up with from the National Communist Against Athletics, as Brian Bosworth called them. Anyway, have a great week at the beach.

7576DAWG

May 31st, 2011
11:21 am

Alabama just a few years ago was one of the worst teams in the nation and even I felt sorry for them because of their history of dominance in the past. The rich Alumni and boosters committed enough money to pay a coach 2 or 3 times what the highest paid coach was making at the time. All they said was WIN . Was there any stipulations ? No, Win at all cost.
Saban is doing that. But, so far he is doing it within the rules and regulations the NCAA and the SEC have written. So if Alabama is taking advantage of every loophole in the business and it is deemed within the rules and regulation why aren’t we doing the same. If Saban gets the athlete a medical scholarship or a transfer to a 1-AA school or smaller , less competitive conference, hasn’t he done more than enough to help the player . He wasn’t ever going to make it to the pro level and he still gets a free education. What else could he want? That leaves a scholarship open so Alabama can bring in another stud so they can compete at a top 10 level.
Now some and even I question the INTEGRITY of such a move but if both the SEC and the NCAA are condoning that type of behavior and rule bending then when we don’t take advantage of the same thing because of low INTEGRITY isn’t that our fault. And if we are so outraged over the SEC condoning such a practice it needs to be changed or we need to drop out of the SEC and become a holier than thou independent team.
I’m tired of all the complaining.

brick

May 31st, 2011
11:42 am

DC, you are incorrect about AU, they signed 33 last year which is 8 more than the allowed 25. Yes they had room for 8 early entries because they were coming off probation for breaking rules and having reduced scholarships. LSU was actually one of the first to start the practice of “oversigning” so yes they are one of the habitual oversigners.

MS. Bully

May 31st, 2011
11:47 am

Ole Miss has to over-sign because half of their players either leave or kicked off the team within two years.

It Ain't Rocket Science

May 31st, 2011
11:53 am

MS BULLY,

So you are saying they have to stack em up, because of attrition. What is the problem, that causes half of them to leave every two years or be kicked off the team?
I hope it is not the coach.

flo-ri-duh

May 31st, 2011
12:15 pm

Lou Saban, Less Miles and Petrino are the worst offenders when it comes to over signing and trashing players when they no longer want them. Time to end this unlevel playing field.

UGA19

May 31st, 2011
12:16 pm

If Richt dont have a winning season he will not have to worry about this. He need to win it all this year.

Petey

May 31st, 2011
12:17 pm

Is this a issue within other conferences?

Oversigning

May 31st, 2011
12:21 pm

Lets go ahead and get it out there early. This year Bama signed 22 or 23 players. Richt signed 26 players. What was that about oversigning dawg fans?

Auburn fans complaining about Bama oversigning? Ya gotta be kidding? AU has signed way more players than Alabama over the last 5 years. It aint even close. Just look it up on rivals and scout.

Also after this year’s signing class Alabama is actually 7th overall in the league in terms of oversigning during Saban’s tenure. Those pesky little facts. In Saban’s 5 classes he has averaged 27 per class- only 2 over the limit on average- 3 classes he oversigned- 2 he was at or under the limit. This isn’t like Houston Nutt who signed 37 a few years back.

Cutting players? Really. The only players ever run off of our team have been disciplinary problem children. Saban doesn’t tolerate 12 players a year getting arrested. That crap doesn’t fly at Alabama. Otherwise you can’t find a single player who was “cut” just to make room for another player.

Cutting players by putting them on medical scholarship? Really? Next thing you’re gonna say is that Tyrone Prothro really is ok to play. Or that Ivan Matchett really didn’t shatter his knee. What kind of a moron on here thinks he knows better than the team doctors at a school. Is everybody on here an orthopedic surgeon?

Greyshirting? Funny but Mike Shula greyshirted far more players than Saban did? I wonder why nobody complained when Shula did? Oh, that’s right. Cause he was a loser but Saban isn’t. Speaking of greyshirting Bama only average maybe 1 player a year greyshirting. Also at Alabama that handful of players that have actually greyshirted were made fully aware of the possibility of this early in the recruiting process. There was no surprise to the few players that have greyshirted at Bama.

At LSU and S. Carolina the head coaches handled it poorly and did not make the players aware of this possibility in the recruiting process. Lesson learned for Spurrier and Miles but for Saban its never been an issue since players were made fully aware of this as a possibility.

Another pesky fact regarding oversigning? When Saban signed his largest class ever -32 in 08, we actually came in 1 scholarship under the limit when the class reported in the fall that year. 2 signees chose pro baseball, 4 did not qualify, and 2 had major high school injuries that delayed enrollment while recuperating, etc.

Is oversigning really bad? Nope. The flip side to that issue is that its immoral to have badly needed scholarships sitting around going to waste. Schollies that go mostly to disadvantaged young black men. AU has been the 2nd worst oversigner the last few years and guess what? They’re still under scholarshipped. They have 53 players on roster right now- 25 coming in the fall puts them 7 under the total of 85. That’s 7 open slots and 7 young men that won’t get to go to college. Auburn has simply had some bad attrition and had one year in particular- Tubbs last class- where 40% of their signing class ended up not enrolling. AU is still trying to catch up to the lost attrition and had oversigning limits been in place the last couple of years AU would probably be fielding teams 10-15 players under the limit like the did 2 years ago. UT is another example of this as 2 years ago UT played with only 68 scholarship players due to an unusual amount of attrition.

Put away your faux moral righteousness. Oversigning helps programs fill scholarship numbers when unusual attrition periodically occurs. And if you don’t oversign then the end result is badly needed scholarships and opportunities going to waste like at UT and AU the last couple of years.

The real reason some of you whiners complain about oversigning is really about jealousy and nothing else. And if that were’nt true than you guys would be all up in arms about the nation’s leading oversigning program- Troy which has averaged 32 signees per year over the last 5 years. Curiously you are not upset about Troy- only Saban.

gte773w

May 31st, 2011
12:28 pm

Georgia Tech and Bobby Dodd campaigned against over-signing in the 60’s leading to Tech leaving the SEC on moral grounds rather than being in a league that mistreats High School Football players by saying they have a spot on the team, which they don’t…

Petey

May 31st, 2011
12:28 pm

Oversigning is bad – they look like they all do it. So this is like the pot calling the kettle black, when in reality the pot is black too.

AltamahaDawg

May 31st, 2011
12:28 pm

The new rules can’t prevent these kids from being treated unethically, but it certainly takes away the cover and then coaches will just have to own their actions.

FWIW, I am NOT saying anybody is being unethical, but it’s sure getting written up as if that’s how it looks. I can’t imagine any coach that claims they are not gaining any advantage from over-signing, would have a problem with the conference ridding itself of any appearance of such.

AltamahaDawg

May 31st, 2011
12:31 pm

What is Troy?

Oversigning

May 31st, 2011
12:38 pm

Alt Dawg,

Troy university- used to be Troy state but they just shortened it to Troy. UF plays them sometimes as do several other sec and acc teams. Troy nearly beat UT last year- shoulda won the game but turnovers did them in. Troy is in the sunbelt I think.

Oversigning

May 31st, 2011
12:48 pm

Oversigning is a good thing when used appropriately.

The only issue with it in the past is people like Houston Nutt signing crazy numbers like 37 players because of several that have no prayer of qualifying academically just so that he can build a relationship with a junior college.

The only other problem that has ever occurred is when coaches like Miles and Spurrier do not tell the last 1-2 players that if every single player qualifies that they could be looking at taking a greyshirt offer. In Miles case he had 4 players that he and the LSU staff thought there was no way all 4 would qualify. All 4 did and so that left LSU one player over the limit and the one player who was already on campus in the summer had to leave school and either transfer or re-enroll the next semester on a greyshirt. Nothing wrong with this as long as the kid is fully aware of the possibility that this could happen. In this kids case and the case of one player at S. Carolina they were not told that they may have to end up taking a greyshirt if everyone qualified and so the kids were understably upset when they found out their wasn’t enough room for them in the class.

Other than these 2 kids there is not one instance of players being run off at schools for other than disciplinary issues in order to cut or make room for other players. Just a bunch of hot air from the ignorant blowhards on here who know nothing of what they speak. And these kids still had the option of just greyshirting and delaying enrollment 1 semester.

Oversigning

May 31st, 2011
12:55 pm

One other thing about the astounding ignorance and foolishness of some of the oversigning blowhards on here. In b-ball many schools oversign due to attrition- just like in football. So why is no one complaining about the much more rampant oversigning in b-ball?

Baseball? If a player has a half baseball scholarship and he ends up batting .150 for the year do you think that kid is going to have a half scholly next year? He may end up books only or no scholly help at all. This is routine in baseball. Players are routinely up or down scholarshipped all the time in NCAA baseball. And don’t kid yourselves blowhards. A lot of times its pretty much performance based even if they won’t say it.

At least in football if you are a major bust you pretty much have your full ride for 4 straight years even if you never get off the bench as a 4th teamer. Now that you guys know what goes on in baseball maybe it will shut up some of the oversigning blowhards on here. Just maybe anyway.