Are politicians afraid of us?
Thank goodness those who turned out to question the health care legislation that’s being quickly and aggressively pushed through Congress by Democrats and the Obama Administration weren’t un-American.
Instead, they were described in the morning’s AJC as “civil, polite” and “asking smart questions,” thus offering “a lesson to the rest of the nation on how civil discourse doesn’t have to spiral into civil disobedience.” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Majority Leader Steny Hoyer would be pleased. On Monday, the two had asserted that the behavior of those who disrupted the health care meetings was “simply un-American.”
At the DeKalb meeting with Democratic Congressman Hank Johnson, three people were tossed after “a brief outburst.” Organizers “made it clear that groww misbehavior was not acceptable” and attendees were forced to pass through metal detectors, permissable language was spelled out and good behavior was enforced by “a large police presence.”
Harken back to the days of the civil rights movement where a segment of the population believed that they were powerless to influence the politicians and other authorities who controlled all levers of government.
Politicians and controlling authorities attempted precisely the kind of control that was the law of the land in DeKalb. You can speak a certain way. You can’t be rude. You can’t misbehave or come with props that attract the attention of television cameras. And the meeting would be judged on whether a sufficient police presence had been assembled to enforce the organizers’ desired course of events and discussion.
Congress is ramming through legislation that could radically change our health care system. Opponents who don’t think they’re being heard or who don’t think full and honest debate is occurring at the national level have every right to protest as they see fit. Congressman Hank Johnson of DeKalb County will vote for the bill, period. All Democrats in the Georgia delegation will, with the possible exception of the two who are vulnerable to challenge: U.S. Rep. Jim Marshal of Macon and U.S. Rep. John Barrow of Savannah.
Meanwhile, constituents in Congressman Hank Johnson’s district all get smiley faces for good behavior. They have behaved as police authorities and the politician’s organizers desired. An organizer who runs his constituents through metal detectors at a public policy debate is afraid of the people he serves. That is not America.
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© 2009 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
185 comments Add your comment
Mac
August 11th, 2009
8:00 am
There can be no “debate” about any issue in this country anymore. The reason is two competing corporations Democrat Inc. and Republican Inc. control Washington and they don’t cooperate. At all. Ever. Their business is not governing. Their business is winning elections and raising money.
And, you, Wooten, rather than condemn this damnable situation, participate gleefully. Shame on you. Shame on them. And God help us all. Our country is lost.
Chris
August 11th, 2009
8:15 am
Rep. Marshall is vulnerable, especially in the northern part of his district. After getting a letter from him stating he has gotten 4000 letters a month since Obama’s inauguration back in May that basically told me that Rep. Marshall wanted me to leave him alone.
Big mistake. The letters, e-mails, and phone calls (all civil of course) has only intensified.
Jeff
August 11th, 2009
8:31 am
“Harken back to the days of the civil rights movement where a segment of the population believed that they were powerless to influence the politicians and other authorities who controlled all levers of government.”
That’s exactly where we are with today’s govt, except I think everyone on all sides of any given argument feel that way. Exasperations & behavior will only get worse as congress has gone totally tone deaf of its constituents. Pelosi’s declaration re mob mentality of the opposition is no more rational or credible than was Nixon’s.
People must shout to be heard because no one in Washington listening. If they were (listening) we wouldn’t have TARP, auto industry bailouts, cash for clunkers, illegal immigration at current levels, et al. Get a glove, Nancy, and get in the game.
El Cid
August 11th, 2009
8:31 am
Count me among those pulling for “radical” health care reform to be “rammed through”, because I’ve been watching the failure of health care reform, leading to our currently insanely, “radically” bad and inefficient health insurance system, for a generation now.
There was a bit more Republican support for the original 1965 Social Security reforms which created Medicare, but back then, there were more elected Republicans than the hardest right wing of the Party. But had fewer Republican Senators voted with LBJ in 1965, we still should have passed it, no matter how many faux ‘grassroots’ nitwits were calling it Communist or whatever.
Conservatives should show up and protest, and admittedly they’re a bit new to it all and a bit rusty because they’ve spent too many decades slurring any liberal protesters as crazy anti-Americans and “get a job” and other crap I’ve heard.
But if you’re a bunch of crazy types out there thinking anyone’s afraid of your nonsense and that hooting and hollerin’ will askeer us poor libs, let me remind you: you lost the last two elections badly, and no matter how much you’ve convinced yourself that your tiny Southern strongholds will lead a revolution in 2010 and 2012, you’re more than likely going to lose this battle.
And if Democrats maintain enough guts to pass something decent, then as the law begins to act and individuals and businesses begin to see and feel the benefits, to drop the fear that health problems will bankrupt them or that their health insurance company will find any excuse to drop their coverage when it’s needed, etc., that’s when you’re really going to be electorally in trouble.
Because people will remember who backed and who opposed the reform, and who had absolute power 2002 – 2006 and did nothing to improve health care and who actually accomplished something within the first year after the 2008 elections.
Peter
August 11th, 2009
8:34 am
WOW Mac………. YOU Hit the nail on the head !
And with guys in office like Mark Sanford in Office ripping off the American Public, no wonder there is getting to be zero trust in government !
Get Real
August 11th, 2009
8:47 am
Weren’t those who protested the Iraq War deemed to be un-patriotic by you Wooten? And you say protesters should be able to act how they may; be it rude or misbehavin’? Is that how you always want things, or only public matters that you oppose? When Cindy Sheehan and Code Pink act out, were you supportive of their actions? I doubt it.
I have no problem with the protesters. They’re fighting against their own self-interests, but thats their choice. If health care reform doesn’t pass, 4 years from now these same people will be crying about the rising health costs. I have health insurance through my job, and see the hundreds of dollars that come out of every pay check whether anyone in my family receives medical care or not. Its a shell game, because insurers are only concerned with profit and have no incentive to lower costs. Republicans claim that expanding the number of insurers will accomplish this, but had 6 years to turn this policy into action and did nothing. I’m paying for the care of the uninsured through higher insurance costs. That isn’t free enterprise or personal responsibility. My stance is you either expand health care coverage to ALL, or pass legislation that restricts insurers, hospitals, doctors, and other health care organizations from passing the costs of providing care to the uninsured on to me.
Mark
August 11th, 2009
8:48 am
I did not see Pelosi condemining any protestors during the anti-Bush rallies. That makes her nothing more than a partisan hypocrite. There is nothing anti-American about having a free voice.
Sorry Peter. Sanford is scum, but he is not part of this arguement, but instead a way for you to show your disgust for Republicans while praising a post that appears to fault both parties.
chill
August 11th, 2009
8:52 am
This thing will take 5 years to be implemented. There is no way they can put a Government run debacle like this into action any sooner than that. So, we have time and we will be voting again soon.
I hope this doesn’t turn into a mess like the cash for clunkers has. One of my closest friends is a Ford Dealer and he says this clunker program is an absolute joke, but he is taking the money from the clowns who authorized it. I can only guess that a government run healthcare program will turn into an absolute disaster. Where did our Country go?
nowretired
August 11th, 2009
9:04 am
Jim, based on this article I would believe that you are entirely satisfied with the pending mountain of payroll deductions your kids & grandkids will be paying to support the 30 million boomers on Soc Sec, Medicare & Medicaid in the next 20 years. Medical cost are increasing at the rate of 12% per annum & we will add 20 million old folks to the public dole in the next 20 years. But this is OK & does not need to be changed, correct?
Jim
August 11th, 2009
9:12 am
No more pre-existing conditions will keep me from getting the same insurance as everybody else? Then why don’t I just wait until I get sick and THEN apply for health insurance?
I’ll tell you why. Because the government will make everybody take out health insurance from the start. How? They will go into my bank account and take the money for for the premiums.
Read the bill if you don’t believe me.
turdblossom
August 11th, 2009
9:13 am
Where did our country go? Why we great Neocons eviscerated the constitution, bankrupted the economy, let “free enterprise” run un-regulated to rape and pillage, ran “my d*ck is bigger than your d*ck wars”, committed torture, and basically sh*t on the ideals of the nations founders. THATS where the country went.
clyde
August 11th, 2009
9:54 am
In 1776 the demonstrations got a tad rude also.We the people have loaned the government to the clowns in power and they have ruined same.It’s time we revoked their priviledge to rule.We need the politicians to be ousted and replaced with citizens that understand the country we live in.
Sunny
August 11th, 2009
9:59 am
Where’s Saxby? Is he having town hall meetings to listen to the taxpayers?
Bo Chambliss LOBBYIST
August 11th, 2009
10:00 am
Saxby is out playing golf with insurance LOBBYIST. There is lots of money to be made out of this mess.
JC in Powder Springs
August 11th, 2009
10:02 am
According to the AJC front page story, two of the people opposing healthcare reform who attended Representative Johnson’s town hall meeting last night, Mr. Barbour and Mr. Bright, aren’t even from Johnson’s district!! Why aren’t they attending meetings in their own districts and complaining to their own congressmen? I believe these two jerks went to the meeting with the intended purpose of disrupting things as much as possible. I’m very pleased Rep. Johnson outsmarted them.
As far as pushing through healthcare reform quickly and aggressively, put me down as being all for it. Our current system sucks! It the lousiest healthcare system of any advanced country in the world. It shifts money from actual healthcare to middlemen. Millions go without any healthcare at all. Every day we keep the current system, is another day we waste millions of dollars.
SocializedScam
August 11th, 2009
10:17 am
For those supporters of Goverment Healthcare; You want to experience Government Healthcare first hand, trying living in England under the socialized healthcare system. I worked for the National Health System for 5 years and have grandparents and relatives that live under that piece of crap healthcare system. I witnessed first hand the terrible waste of money and inefficiencies that come with Government runned healthcare. If you think that it will be any different, if implemented here, you are sadly mistaken.
booger
August 11th, 2009
10:25 am
This whole debate on health care would make one think that the only two choices out there are do nothing, or accept the plan as written. I do not think this is the case. I know some democrats who want reform but do not agree with everything in the bill, and most conservatives I know are resigned to the fact that there will be some changes and cost will go up. The WHO ranking is not a condemnation of the entire system. The only two areas where the US is substantially marked down are overall medical costs, and accessability. Since these are weighted heavily, this drags the US from near the top, to near the bottom.
Why can’t we have a plan which addresses these issues without throwing out the whole system? On the accessibility side, create a plan for the approx. 25 million without a plan and who cannot afford one.
On the cost side, if there is a way to cut 500 million out of Medicare and Medicaid, Do it. If there are other ways to save cost, do them as well. These things can be done without controlling the entire system and throwing the good things such as technology out the window out the window.
GayGrayGeek
August 11th, 2009
10:33 am
Jim, is FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER the only “weapon” you silly WingNutters have left in your arsenals? Or is that the only emotion y’all can feel as well as express?
GayGrayGeek
August 11th, 2009
10:35 am
BTW, when does Kyle WingNutKid take off the training wheels and start allowing commenting? A wonderful example of those Strong, Brave “Conservatives” y’all’ve got there…
F22 Guy
August 11th, 2009
10:36 am
If Saxby had done his job & saved the F22, he would have got enough money that he would not need to take more from the insurance companies. The insurance companies need to be careful with Saxby you don’t always get what you pay for.
Churchill's MOM
August 11th, 2009
10:39 am
GayGrayGeek
August 11th, 2009
10:35 am
The Wingboy is NOT a CONSERVATIVE he is just another Republican hack. The AJC bought a low cost Rush.
Tom
August 11th, 2009
10:41 am
Clear all the members of Congress need to run their town halls like George W. Bush did: permit only hand-picked supporters asking pre-scripted and screened questions.
booger
August 11th, 2009
10:44 am
GayGray,
And how long is Cynthia going to use her training wheels?
SocializedScam
August 11th, 2009
10:50 am
Quick question – who is Kyle WingNutKid?
GayGrayGreek – Nancy Pelosi is a wonderful example for you liberals.
Mac
August 11th, 2009
11:07 am
Cynthia McKin … er, rather, Tucker will never, ever blog. You read it here first.
DannyX
August 11th, 2009
11:23 am
What a beautiful sight! Nine short months after the republicans got their butts kicked, the embarrassment of their huge loss has gone away and now turned to anger.
The 10 step program Republicans will have to go through before they accept the reality of their humiliating defeat.
one- Embarrassment
two- Anger
three- Confusion
four- Hysteria
five- More Anger
six- Denial
seven- Depression
eight- Anger
nine- Paranoia
ten- Funny Farm, (acceptance.)
60-40 senate, massive House majority, presidency. Thats gotta hurt! Reality probably isn’t the best place for a Republican right now. You know the turn of events have turned a lot of Republicans stark raving mad.
Ironic too! Out of all the talk of change Obama has given us it turns out that it is the Republicans that have changed the most under Obama. They’ve gone from ‘kinda weird’ to ‘crazier than Zell’ crazy.
Chris Salzmann
August 11th, 2009
11:28 am
Jim August 11th, 2009 9:12 am SAID: I’ll tell you why. Because the government will make everybody take out health insurance from the start. How? They will go into my bank account and take the money for for the premiums. Read the bill if you don’t believe me.
CHRIS SAID: Yeah, Jim. AND YOU”RE WRONG!!!!> ROFLMAO. I read the bill. I’m also have insurance licenses, including health. So, I actually know what I’m talking about.
FICTION: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer (according to Jimmy and his ignorant cohorts)
FACT: Wow. Is that scary, or what? Only one problem; it’s a lie. And I don’t mean he’s mistaken; I mean, he’s lying. Here’s what it says in the actual bill:
‘‘The standards under this section shall be developed, adopted and enforced so as to… (C) enable electronic funds transfers, in order to allow automated reconciliation with the related health care payment and remittance advice;”
It clearly refers to payment for the health care, not payment of the premium. Most health care companies love this, and will adopt it. But it is still their choice, just as it could be your choice to pay your health insurance premiums by direct transfer, check or payroll deduction. AS IS ALREADY THE CASE NOW.
So Jim, post some more of those little twisted “facts”. You know, like the one about the “Obama Death Panel” telling you how the panel has decided to “off” grandma!!! After all, Sarah Palin said so!
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Tray
August 11th, 2009
11:36 am
The funny part is that many years from now, after America has fallen apart…everyone will look to history to ask what happened to the greatest country in the world. All of the books will show that this election, the overwhelming democratic majority, those are what brought America down!
On a healthcare note-
@Jim-YOU ARE RIGHT!! IN THE BILL IS LANGUAGE THAT THE GOV’T GETS YOUR BANK ACCOUNT INFO!!!
PEOPLE, THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE YOUR MONEY STRAIGHT OUT OF YOUR ACCOUNT!!
A government big enough to give you what you want is large enough to take everything you have…
Peter
August 11th, 2009
11:38 am
Hey Mark…….Yes ………..Sorry Peter. Sanford is scum, but he is not part of this arguement, but instead a way for you to show your disgust for Republicans while praising a post that appears to fault both parties.
Both parties are in it for themselves and Sanford is a typical part of the problem.
Here is another part of the Problem……. Lack of education in this silly State of Georgia……..And idiots like this……..
Swastika spray-painted outside Congressman’s office
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
A vandal spray-painted a large black swastika on the sign outside U.S. Rep. David Scott’s office in Smyrna.
The swastika was discovered this morning by an office worker.
Smyrna police are investigating, and the Democratic Congressman is on his way to the office, according to spokeswoman Jennifer Wright.
I guess these are Jim’s People !
Tray
August 11th, 2009
11:40 am
@Chris Salzmann
If the government isn’t going to take the money from your account, then why the hell do they want access to the NUMBERS?? I’ll tell you why. They can only tkae money out of your check…unless they have your account info. then they can still tax you whether you work or not!
IT’S ALL ABOUT INTRUSION!! And you guys thought Bush was bad by wanting to listen to your phone calls…
AT LEAST BUSH NEVER PASSED A BILL MAKING YOUR BANK INFO GOVERNMENT KNOWLEDGE!
booger
August 11th, 2009
11:44 am
DannyX,
60/40 senate and massive majority in the house, and they are still blaming conservatives for their inability to get things done.
Chris Salzmann
August 11th, 2009
11:49 am
Tray August 11th, 2009 11:40 am SAYS: IT’S ALL ABOUT INTRUSION!! And you guys thought Bush was bad by wanting to listen to your phone calls…
AT LEAST BUSH NEVER PASSED A BILL MAKING YOUR BANK INFO GOVERNMENT KNOWLEDGE!
CHRIS SAYS: When you transfer payments for services rendered, the bank ONLY transfers the payment, NOT WHAT, HOW MUCH, SOURCE OF FUND, ETC, of your bank account. It’s the same with credit card payments. Just the payment gets sent, not your credit limit, history, etc. If you’ve ever filed your taxes electronically, then you shouldn’t have a problem with this either.
DannyX
August 11th, 2009
12:06 pm
Hate talk radio just might have the answer here.
Remember when Hannity, O’Reilly and the rest of the right wing blabber mouths were supporting the use of the tazer in the “don’t taze me bro” episode? You know, the “was warned,” and “was breaking the law,” defense?
I urge law enforcement use the same tactics with the right wing wackos. One polite warning, then ZAP! Taze em’! Faster than you can say fair tax. ZAP!
Crushing the pubt's
August 11th, 2009
12:14 pm
The organizer ran people through the metal detectors because some of these peanut brain Springertards had guns at their rallies. And like children who misbehave and act out and never do t heir homework, these Springertards need to be reminded there are consequences for distrubing the peace which Mr. Wooten can’t distinguish from asking a question and sitting down and waiting for the answer rather than intentionally disrupting a meeting and shouting down everyone else.
None of the disrupters has read any bill, and there is no bill from several commitees, and Waxman’s commitee is not yet finished with amendments in theres.
Again Wooten avoids discussing any specific provisions of any bill, because he doesn’t konw what they are as usual.
Which brings up of course the famed, death squad provision highlighted by two of your dumber leaders, Palin and Gingrich.
The US government should not run death panels. They are far too important a responsibility–and should remain with the insurance companies who have been running the death panels for years as they cut people from their roles, and deny coverage.
Further, 50 million people plus don’t have access to those death panels–this has to stop. They all must have access. Not just the elite should be pallin’ ’round with death panels.
Why should only 62 and older people have access to the death panels when there are unproductive people from 15 to 62 as well.
Also, why is Obama putting a curse on all white people?
And Jim Wooten raised the extremely prescient point that H1N1 emphasis is being done by cry babies. That’s why Jim Wooten has been placed at the back of the line to receive his H1N1 15 microgram/ml. doses because Mr. Wooten is not a cry baby. H`N1 will beat the vaccines to the tape by months, but so what?
We have our privately run death panels and no one will take them away from us. We don’t need a public plan for the death panels. People in choppers who kill wolves and mooses can run them superbly.
We think it’s a great idea that an increasing number of people can’t get insurance, after they are dropped or if they lose their job, and that there are medicare gaps.
We think it’s a fantastic idea that although all local hospitals bid for meds as part of a powerful consortium with leveraged power, medicare can’t because repubs protected Big Pharma when Bill Frist forbade this type bidding by federal programs.
And above all here this: Dontcha dare kill mah trisomah babuh or my parents with yo death squads. Ah wants the private death squad insurance companies who have been killin’ babuhs and parents fo years.
An ahm gettin on da bus to New Hampshire to shout down Obama’s town hall ’cause ah loves the federal lockup in NH in August yes ah does.
Jim's hyperbole
August 11th, 2009
12:18 pm
Opponents certainly have the right to peacefully protest. But, opponents do not “have every right to protest as they see fit” and it is irresponsible for you to say that they do. When I attend a town hall meeting, I don’t have the right to protest by wacking anyone who disagrees with me with my sign. I don’t have the right to protest by physically intimidating someone. I don’t have the right to protest by painting swastikas on people’s doors.
Crushing the pubt's
August 11th, 2009
12:18 pm
Democrats Take Aim at Supreme Court Decisions
The National Law Journal
Democratic lawmakers are pushing legislation that would reverse the effects of high-profile Supreme Court decisions, many of them driven by the Court’s conservative majority. The bills are a sign of liberals’ frustration with the Roberts Court’s direction — and their hopes for Sonia Sotomayor.
sharecropper
August 11th, 2009
12:21 pm
Why don’t you ask Rep. Dixon about the Swastica painted on his office? The congressman who held a “town hall” where ruffians and thugs brought guns? All those who tried to conduct civil discourse and were shouted down, cursed at, called liars at the tops of voices, and the one memorable scene in which one oversized man was jumping up and down and screaming at the top of his long that he actually frothed at the mouth. They had better be very afraid of you and your ilk, Wooten, because somebody is going to get hurt by these thugs. The real question of fear, Wooten, is: why are you and your radical right bomb throwers so afraid of rationale discourse? What frightens you so about democracy? Because something clearly does. It seems clear to me that the out-of-towners disrupting these meetings are doing their level best to get attacked, so they can claim Democrats are Nazis. We all know who the Nazis are.
Rockerbabe
August 11th, 2009
12:28 pm
The meeting at Perimeter College in Clarkston was rather “civil” by the prevailing stardards. Mr. Wooten is throwing “things” again at attempts to keep public meetings public and civil. I was afraid we might be in for some of the distractions, outburst and stalling tactics that other legislators and citizens have been subject to in the recent past. To my knowledge, no one bothered the protestors outside of the auditorium and long Indian Creek Drive. My hat is off to Rep Johnson. He and his team managed to keep the Clarkston meeting civilized and anyone who wanted to speak and/or ask questions was free to do so. It was also very nice to be able to hear what was being said by both the questionaire as well as Rep. Johnson.
Mr. Wooton talks about past days of elected officials controlling the environment for public discourse; well some control is necessary as there are a lot of people in our community who fear change of any sort, who disrespect others who disagree with them and who will do anything, including mob rule tactics to get their way. Mr. Wooten speaks of people’s first amendment rights, well, what about MY RIGHT to speak and be heard as well as Rep. Johnson’s right to answer questions and be heard? What about trying to craft a compromise that addresses the concerns that need to be resolved?
The only thing missing at last night’s meeting in Clarkston, was mob rule, disrespectful behavior [which was dealt with swiftly] and the inability of other citizens to hear and be heard. All, in all, it was a good meeting.
As a licensed healthcare practitioner, I have heard so many of the horror stories about medical insurance failures; it is time we constructively dealth with this failure and the misery it causes. What so many of the objectors fail to understand, is that THEY could be the next victim of the insurance industry’s greed and disregard; they should open their hearts, minds and listen to others around them, instead of hoping and believing that all is well.
Jefferson
August 11th, 2009
12:32 pm
Our state will lose if you fight. Now we see how it is to be a minority that won’t work with the majority. Cost regulation has to take place.
Crushing the pubt's
August 11th, 2009
12:36 pm
The protestors simply don’t understand the failures in the health care system currently or the remedies proposed because they have a long life of not reading bills because they’re too lazy–and this cuts across the educational spectrum. I see physicians in MAG who can’t discuss what the bill proposes, MAG being one of the few physician organization on record opposed to any changes whatsoever.
Town hall meetings weren’t disrupted before, not even during the campaign although the whackjob Palin did attrack a bell shaped curve of the least educated in the epicenter of hate groups because they wanted only all white candidates, no matter how stupid they were. The nation rejected stupidity last November–they had their face rubbed in it for eight years.
Among Republicans, their base sits upon Joe the Plumber’s porcelain throne of stupid.
Do you believe that America and Africa were once part of the same continent?
——–Yes No Not Sure
GOP 24 .. 47 .. 29
You’d think at least Palin would believe in continental drift, as over time it requires her to calibrate her focus on Russia.
But the symmetry of imbecility is at least consistent:
An early look at a new Public Policy Polling survey finds that among North Carolina Republicans, a stunning 47% think President Obama was not born in United States, while 24% say he was and 29% are not sure.
So, in one state at least, the exact same numbers of Republicans do not believe in geology or nationality. Thank Fox Faux News aka Clusterfaux and ClusterRush for this.
Tray
August 11th, 2009
12:40 pm
i have a problem with the government wanting ANYTHING that they don’t need. For the most part, all they do is WASTE…
Crushing the pubt's
August 11th, 2009
12:46 pm
In a non-partisan report submitted to Congress after they asked for the investigation, 3 top insurance companies cut 20,000 people aka patients from their roles and saved over 370 million dollars in claims, in doing so although the cost was passed on to the “citizens.” The insurance term for this is recission which has a few more letters than “cut.”
Boy Who Cried Wolf
August 11th, 2009
12:46 pm
Just In-Police are investigating whether the graffitti painted on Rep.David Scott’s office may indeed have been an inside job.
Crushing the pubt's
August 11th, 2009
12:47 pm
This cut of 20,000 people took place over the last 5 years–because it would be a lot higher if you extended the period to 15 years and listed all insurance companies.
94% of the states, cities, and municipalities in this country are dominated by only TWO insurance company choices.
Chip
August 11th, 2009
12:48 pm
Has anyone else noticed that for more than four decades, the genus of the animal kingdom known as liberalis hippius had no problems shouting out, speaking out, protesting, and other various methods of what they called free speech for their causes? Now suddenly these same people have a problem with regular Americans speaking out, shouting out, protesting, and just generally expressing their feelings and freedom of speech. In some cases, the rhetoric by liberalis hippius has escalated to nazi and terrorist epithets. Politicians scared? When they lash out with mindless rhetoric like that, what else can one believe but that they ARE in fact scared of Americans? Well they better be, because the majority of this nation has health care and the majority of them are happy with what they have. Now liberalis hippius is threatening to ram this legislation through anyway unconstitutionally, and against the will of the people. And they called Bush a dictator? Laughable!
Oh, and these are the same people that said the Bushies were invading privacy by wiretapping. Now take a peek at what the Obama administration wants to do:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/10/AR2009081002743_pf.html
All those who think this will be limited to government websites, please raise your hand and admit your blind idiocy now.
SaveOurRepublic
August 11th, 2009
12:50 pm
Be not deceived by the diversions of the bogus Left/Right paradigm & racial smokescreens. The issue is all about standing for liberty & freedom and not allowing a tyrannical government further empowerment. Learn/study the facts & educate those with ears to hear & minds to learn!
http://www.infowars.com
Boy Who Cried Wolf
August 11th, 2009
12:51 pm
Crushing the Pub-Our elected officials including are newly elected president don’t even read the very bills they are shoving down our throats-and you have a problem with a few people (i agree a little disruptive) who want answers! I think our problem is not with them.
Chris Salzmann
August 11th, 2009
12:55 pm
Tray August 11th, 2009 12:40 pm SAID: i have a problem with the government wanting ANYTHING that they don’t need. For the most part, all they do is WASTE…
CHRIS SAYS: After 9-11. all internet service providers already give the NSA (National Security Agency) access to ALL internet traffic passing through their servers. The government already has programs snooping for key words, patterns, etc to monitor your online behavior. So whenever you use your online banking account, pay bills, purchases from Amazon, Ebay, Blogs, etc, everything is already monitored by the NSA , i.e. big brother i.e, the government. All this was put in place soon after 9-11 and still very much in effect.
So, your fears of government intrusion have merit but are pointless since its already being done.
Crushing the pubt's
August 11th, 2009
1:01 pm
PRIMER ON HEALTH CARE REFORM–NUTS AND BOLTS
It’s clear that neither Wooten or his Springermousketeers are able or willing to focus on what is actually proposed to change rather than recite invectives and worn out platitudes, just like the Republitards in Congress.
Crushing the pubt's
August 11th, 2009
1:03 pm
Big difference el-Chippo from freedom of speech and yelling aimlessly and continuously to ruin a town hall meeting. Haul your largus assius into a Republican election meeting from now until the election in JawJaw and start yelling “liar liar” and that same largus assius will be in the back of a squad car in a NY minute.
Boy Who Cried Wolf
August 11th, 2009
1:07 pm
It’s always refreshing to hear those on the left with nothing really valid to say start to create elementary monikers for those who dis-agree. Name calling seems part of the lefts membership handbook? What’s next running home and telling mommy!! Grow Up!
Crushing the pubt's
August 11th, 2009
1:09 pm
Strange–the Springertards have gone silent at Obama’s Town Hall. LOL Wonder why they aren’t willing to go to a federal lockup for their version of the 1st Amendment intermixed with the 2nd amendment–what happened to their gonads?
Boy Who Cried Wolf
August 11th, 2009
1:10 pm
Or better yet-holding one’s breath till turning blue.
Chris Salzmann
August 11th, 2009
1:10 pm
Boy Who Cried Wolf August 11th, 2009 12:51 pm SAID: Crushing the Pub-Our elected officials including are newly elected president don’t even read the very bills they are shoving down our throats-and you have a problem with a few people (i agree a little disruptive) who want answers! I think our problem is not with them.
CHRIS SAYS: The bills available online for anyone who wants to read it. Can’t people read or are they so stupid that they need this spoon fed. Here’s a copy for anyone who needs (and everyone should) read it.
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/AAHCA09001xml.pdf
If you haven’t read the bill, and all your information comes from the likes of Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin when they scream “OBAMA DEATH PANEL!!!” then don’t come to these Town Halls when all you’re going to do is scream down other folks with legitimate questions. I don’t have a problem with people asking questions regarding this bill. I have a problem with disruptive behavior that prevents others from asking questions and getting meaningful answers. This whole thing can be kept civil without folks screaming SOCIALIST, COMMUNIST, KEEP GOVT OUT OF MY MEDICARE!. The last one is especially ironic.
Boy Who Cried Wolf
August 11th, 2009
1:11 pm
Crushing pub-could it be like all other Obama TH’s the audience was handpicked.
dave
August 11th, 2009
1:12 pm
Peter – “Mark Sanford ripping off the American public,” he is a fool, a really bad dad and husband, but I have never seen one fact supporting your quote. At least try to get a little bit of factual information to support you bias.
Boy Who Cried Wolf
August 11th, 2009
1:14 pm
Chris-Obama’s own mouthpiece Gibbs admitted last week that his boss had’nt read bill,just go’s over his version of the main points. That does’nt bother you?
sharecropper
August 11th, 2009
1:15 pm
Duh. THE GOVERNMENT GETS YOUR BANK ACCOUNT INFO! THE SKY IS FALLING.
Look, wingnuts. If you get Social Security, guess what: they already got it and have had it for years. You guys cannot be as dense as you are pretending to be. Well, maybe.
Chris Salzmann
August 11th, 2009
1:15 pm
Boy Who Cried Wolf August 11th, 2009 1:07 pm SAID: It’s always refreshing to hear those on the left with nothing really valid to say start to create elementary monikers for those who dis-agree. Name calling seems part of the lefts membership handbook? What’s next running home and telling mommy!! Grow Up!
CHRIS SAYS: Name calling??? This coming from folks who scream “SOCIALIST” at every opportunity when they obviously don’t even know what it means. This is especially true when done to drown out folks who have legitimate questions? BTW, remember the screams of “unpatriotic” and “treason” when daring to critic Bush during the invasion of Iraq? Remember the Dixie Chicks??? You know the saying about throwing stones while self standing in a glass house?
Boy Who Cried Wolf
August 11th, 2009
1:23 pm
And the rallies of those who opposed the war were all saints-come on. How about thw well organized disruptive groups that always seem to be Bush’s press conferences? So please quit with the fake astonishment. It’s been going on for decades by both sides.
Chris Salzmann
August 11th, 2009
1:24 pm
Boy Who Cried Wolf August 11th, 2009 1:14 pm SAID: Chris-Obama’s own mouthpiece Gibbs admitted last week that his boss had’nt read bill,just go’s over his version of the main points. That does’nt bother you?
CHRIS SAYS: Look, I’m sure Obama hasn’t read the entire bill through either. This bill’s going to be negotiated through and he has folks on his staff who are doing exactly that. This is a preliminary version of the bill and by the time it actually goes through and gets passed by the House, let alone the Senate, its going to look A LOT DIFFERENT. I haven’t read the bill in its entirety either but salient portions of it that I was previously concerned about. An example of this incomplete bill is the question of a Public Option which is part of this version of the bill but now seems remote since the co-op option is now being seriously considered.
Do you really think Presidents read all the bills submitted in their entirety? You think Bush actually read the entire Patriot Act from cover to cover. Of course not. That’s not how the system works.
Chris Salzmann
August 11th, 2009
1:25 pm
Boy Who Cried Wolf August 11th, 2009 1:23 pm SAID: ………..So please quit with the fake astonishment. It’s been going on for decades by both sides.
CHRIS SAYS: Agreed. The BOTH SIDES is what should be emphasized here.
Boy Who Cried Wolf
August 11th, 2009
1:36 pm
Chris-I was responding to your post at 1:10 that’s all. If our elected officials don’t read them,why would you expect the common man to. If our elected officials don’t have a clue as to whats in these bills, where are the checks/balances. People wanting answers is not a bad thing and sadly in some cases not getting them leads to what we’ve seen. I do agree disruptive forces do not help with the process,but please don’t tell me you’ve never seen this from the left.
Crushing the pubt's
August 11th, 2009
1:37 pm
I just here questions and answers. I don’t hear any Wootentards yellin to Obama–
“Doncha kill mah trisomah babuh and mah parents wit your death squads.” What happened to that crowd’s memory–where have all the white racist haters gone at Obama’s town hall? They seem to have crawled back to their insurance companies and reputlitard organizers.
Where have all the liar liar disrupters gone? Where have all the Chips gone?
Where have all the uninsured unemployed Springertards who want to keep having no insurance and keep seeing people with insurance cut or denied, or have their premiums raised by a factor of 3?
Stand up for the right to keep seeing your premiums raised or your employers’ premiums raised for you so you can’t get raises. You’ll show ‘em.
Crushing the pubt's
August 11th, 2009
1:44 pm
Why is it that those of you who mention any money problems with medicare seem totally oblivious to the fact that Republicans in Congress led by Dr. Bill Frist insited that medicare not be able to competitively bid for their pharmaceuticals because this is an absolute anathma to drug companies???
Why is it that those of you yelling about free speech who can’t distinguish it from shouting down people asking questions are oblivious to the fact that the insurance companies see competition as an anathma in a milieu that has 94% of this country with only two dominant insurance companies in their markets dictating the shots to docs and patients?
Ah kint hear ya trisomy babuh death squad protectors–ah kint hear ya.
Peter
August 11th, 2009
1:50 pm
Hey dave……….I said it was hard to trust government, and Mark Sanford was the example……..
Jim has stated he is a CHAMPION of saving money and being conservative….. Of course that has proven to be a lie !
Jim is saying today ……..Should government officials be afraid of voters ?
I say Yes they should, especially voters act insane as in the town hall meetings going on, and when a government official has a swastika painted on their door or building.
Seems like the hooded folks are coming out in force…..Hard to believe these folks are liberal !
What is your point ?
Algonquin J. Calhoun
August 11th, 2009
2:24 pm
You’ve got a colossal nerve, comparing these Republinazi stooges to the people who were fighting for equality and justice. These bums are seeking to keep the status quo for the insurance companies and their behavior is elicited by the Republinazi Party which is in the pocket of the insurance thieves. It is un-American and it’s disgusting!
Ima Political Crook
August 11th, 2009
2:30 pm
Politicians aren’t afraid of big insurance crooks because pol hacks always have someone to stuff their pockets from this industry!!!!
Nancy the Nazi
August 11th, 2009
2:24 pm
I don’t want big brother govt telling me how to medicate myself but I am fed up with big insurance crooks!!!
http://sickforprofit.com/
Matilda
August 11th, 2009
2:32 pm
Yes Mr. Wooten. Your “buddy” Tom Price is afraid you’ll find out the truth about him and actually report it. HAHAHA! Just kidding. He knows you’d never do that!
deegee
August 11th, 2009
2:43 pm
I watched about 30 minutes of the Arlen Specter town hall meeting. I loved the deer in the headlights moment that occurred when Senator Specter asked one of his constituents what he would propose in order to solve the health care dilemma. Duh, um, awkward silence. Then someone in the crowd said, “tort reform” and the old fart was so relieved he could hardly stand it. “Tort reform!” he cried. He then thanked the brain trust that helped him out in a moment of stunned silence.
I wish Arlen Specter would have asked each individual in that room for a brief accounting of their health care expenses that they incurred over the last two years. The information is easy to find. I just pulled mine off of the BCBS website. BCBS pays the doctor less than half of what the doctor bills. Your out of pocket expenses are less than 1% of what the doctor bills. This is why the American people are for the most part fat, dumb and happy. My premiums are deducted from my paycheck and have been going up every year. My premiums are between $2K and $3K a year for me and my spouse. Everyone should know these basic figures.
Crushing the pubt's
August 11th, 2009
3:22 pm
Deegee’s paycheck stops and his insurance stops. Deegee then only has roughly two choices and they are both more than deegee can afford because the premiums double or more. Deegee or Mrs. Deegee gets singificantly sick, and their insurance company will drop them flat. And most physicians I know wouldn’t deal with an insurance company who pays them 50% of the balance due because they can’t keep their practice afloat if they do.
But Deegee got the part about most Americans being fat and dumb.
AlG
August 11th, 2009
3:23 pm
I think a lot of people are going to be surprised next November. It has become so obvious that congress is totally out of touch with the people that some very “safe” seats are going to change hands. Incumbency will be a real liability, and it should be given how the incumbents have taken arrogance and hypocrisy to new levels of art.
Crushing the pubt's
August 11th, 2009
3:28 pm
Arlen Specter is a functioning died in the wool obstructive Republican. He only labled himself a Dem because he wants to survive in a primary where he may lose his job. As to health care, having been through a significant battle with Hodgkins for which he received radiation therapy and chemo in 2005 and had a recurrence with positive nodes in his mstediastinal and abdominal nodes with a negative marrow he’s probably for reform whatever the bill is that Obama is pushing since that’s an enigma enshrouded in a mystery.
I wonder why DeeGee won’t specifically discuss any of the points that are actually in HC reform as outlined here:
PRIMER ON HEALTH CARE REFORM–NUTS AND BOLTS
These are the specifics that ole Deegee is afraid to discuss.
Tray
August 11th, 2009
3:29 pm
Well CHRIS…
((CHRIS SAYS: After 9-11. all internet service providers already give the NSA (National Security Agency) access to ALL internet traffic passing through their servers. The government already has programs snooping for key words, patterns, etc to monitor your online behavior. So whenever you use your online banking account, pay bills, purchases from Amazon, Ebay, Blogs, etc, everything is already monitored by the NSA , i.e. big brother i.e, the government. All this was put in place soon after 9-11 and still very much in effect.
So, your fears of government intrusion have merit but are pointless since its already being done.))
Since it’s already being done secretly and against your will, then it’s ok to go ahead and make it public?
Chris thinks just like a left winger…
Crushing the pubt's
August 11th, 2009
3:30 pm
From the most accurate polls at wwiw.fivethitrtyeight.com none of us are going to be surprised. The pubtards are going to be trounced because they are the party of exponential ignorance with no plans except obstruction and their leaders Rush and Hannity are preaching stupidity.
“Doncha get the death squads to kill mah trisomuh babuh seams to be the logo for the pubs and will get you smashed in 2010. Next November does not have elections anywhere in the US. Maybe you were referring to a foreign country?
Jim Dandy
August 11th, 2009
3:38 pm
People who are so adamantly opposed to health-care reform and the government option are very similar to people worldwide who are used by others who have money and power to do their bidding. I have seen this phenomena in a number of countries, especially third-world countries where the level of education is rather low. The elite and moneyed interests scare people by using what they know to be hot-buttons; race, health, in this country “socialism”, etc. People who fall for this are usually the less educated and less discriminating. The more educated who follow the party line in such issues as health-care reform opposition are normally those that will find some personal advantage in maintaining the status quo. In other words these are the people who work for insurance companies or drug companies or health-care concerns. Maybe they are people who own stock in companies which might suffer if health-care is reformed. But seeing the poor and middle-classes rally against their own best interests is a world-wide phenomena used by the elite upper classes to keep things the way they want and to suppress the majority of the people. Wake up people!
deegee
August 11th, 2009
3:38 pm
Crushing,the P, I am in support of health care reform, not against it. My point is that the 80% that are covered by some form of health care insurance are completely ignorant as to how it works and what it costs. They think that they are getting something for nothing, therefore they are screaming bloody murder at these town hall meetings. My employer is not going to continue to pay the high cost of insurance premiums indefinitely. I would bet that if reform fails they are going to either drop spouses and dependents outright or make coverage so expensive that the primary insured will start dropping them from coverage. I am shocked at the number of old farts that are happily covered under Medicare and Social Security that are ignorant of who is paying the bill for those programs.
I got a chuckle out of the old fart that stood up in the Specter spectacle today and asked the Senator to see to it that all new legislation is written so that a middle school student could understand it. That brain trust thought that the health care reform bill is too hard for people like him to understand. He got a big round of applause for his motion to dumb down America.
Crushing the pubt's
August 11th, 2009
3:40 pm
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com doesn’t predict happy endings for pubs in 2010. And if Americans are fat and happy with their insurance plans, why is it that 50% of them refuse to get colonoscopy which is the gold standard to catch aind cure a cancer that is the #2 killer of males in the US and a significant killer of females, and often we have to write letters bludgeoning your insurance companies into paying for a colonoscopy when you are willing to get one. It seems as if 50% of you like playing Russian Roulette with colon cancer.
Boy Who Cried Wolf
August 11th, 2009
3:46 pm
CrushingPub- Do you ever get tired of trying to be the big bully in school? Your overly obnoxious retorts trying to impress people with your narrow look at the subject at hand is laughable. The very same people you enjoy degrading on the right can easily be found on the left. Ignorance knows party affiliation.
Boy Who Cried Wolf
August 11th, 2009
3:46 pm
My bad”ignorance knows NO party affiliation” sorry
clyde
August 11th, 2009
3:50 pm
Crushing the pubst’s,
Please be patient.The blog will be all yours by 9 PM.,
Boy Who Cried Wolf
August 11th, 2009
3:52 pm
Why do so many smoke,drink,eat red meat or thousands of other things that are not condusive to longer life? It’s called choice,sounds alot like what alot of folks are asking for in the subject of Health Care.
"Charles", The Original
August 11th, 2009
3:55 pm
Undoubtedly, politicians are afraid of Americans. Politicians are responsible for the ‘dumbing down’ of a great and powerful people via integration/indoctrination. As a result, many Americans are intellectually on the level of the average so-called educated integrationist Negro. That is a tremendous fall. Let me help you understand my position.
It’s understood by most thinking people, not to be confused with educated people, the so-called educated integrationist Negroes in America don’t have a pot to piss in and they aren’t looking for one. They refuse to take responsibility for feeding themselves and common Negroes. The so-called educated integrationist Negroes refuse the responsibility of clothing themselves and average Negroes. They reject the responsibility of sheltering themselves and their humble masses. The so-called educated integrationist Negroes refuse the responsibility of educating themselves and other Negroes. The so-called called educated integrationist Negroes have refused to accept the responsibility of providing health care for average Negroes. In a sentence, the so-called educated integrationist Negroes have decided to exploit average Negroes for personal gain and depend on the institutions of other people to service their basic needs and sustain their lives. And many white people have accepted that morbid mental state of being as their own.
But as God Almighty would have it, many right thinking Americans are making connections with those who have sin sick souls. And if those connections continue at the present rate, like the prodigal son, the overwhelming majority of Americans will eventually come to themselves and return home to the genius of their forefathers.
A large police presence, un-American labels, permissible/impermissible language, and good/bad behavior labels won’t curtail the fury of Americans. Politicians will face the bar of justice. And their sins will find them out.
If I were a politician, I would be afraid of Americans too.
retiredds
August 11th, 2009
3:56 pm
Hey Jim, it was your Republican friends who set the standards for who could attend a rally. Most of those who dissented with your pal GW were housed almost across town so he did not have to see “them” or much less respond. If you believe that the screamers and shouters are the way these town hall meetings should be conducted that’s o.k. with me. At least the opponents are being allowed into the town hall venue. But those of us who are independent voter (and thinkers), have tuned them out. I just think they are angry and uninformed, period. Thoughtful dialogue can and does happen in many venues. But I have to say, these tea party-like folks are not gaining traction with many of us who like and welcome dialogue with those of the same or opposite view points. I, myself, wouldn’t call the screamers and yellers un-American, just persons who feel they have to drown out everyone else so they can be heard. Problem is, only a minority of like-minded persons are listening to them. Most of us are reading the bills, having discussions about them with other people who are doing their homework and gradually and thoughtfully coming to our own conclusions. So you might ask your screaming and yelling friends to tone it down some and then maybe we will listen to them. As it stands now, they rule themselves out.
Crushing the pubt's
August 11th, 2009
3:59 pm
I apologize if I misunderstood you deegee. I want to get people covered. Your point that most people don’t understand the economics of or even the coverage extent of their insurance is of course right.
The figure I heard Obama give a little while ago was 3 million people dropped in the last several years. Many employers as you know well are being priced out of the insurance market, and we all know the role that health care has played in the demise of not just the auto industry but many other large companies who are now closed–or in increasing unemployment in general.
I am not at all anti capitalism or business, but one trend that has run consistently with insurance companies and big pharma is that they don’t want competition.
Billy Tauzin who has always gotten a big amount of money who as a Democrat ran Waxman’s committee, and now works for big Pharma has really delivered for them by making sure they don’t have competitive bidding with the government programs VAH and Medicare, and that their patent window stays at about 12 years with the ability to apply for extension loopholes when that runs out. It’s simply too long and gives them an unfair competitive advantage that is way beyond the costs of research and development but covers airwave saturated marketing–some of which they have every right to do and helps with patient education although unfortunately most oft the sound bytge is a recitation of each and every low percentage side effect that should be explained by the doctor.
I could empathize though with the guy who wants legislation more understandable. Most bills have passages that attorneys end up arguing before 3 judge appellate panels as to” legislative intent.”
Maybe there could be and should be a parallel bill interpretation appened to the legislative language that most people could understand. The amendments tacked onto bills that are totally unrelated to bills is way out of hand. The earmark process is so subjective and mysterious that it completely not only defies interpretation–it eludes it. Agencies have hogged and taken a big chunk of earmark money lately–writing their own individual agency rules with their legal staffs to do it.
I agree America is already about as dumbed down as it can get and the apathy is amazing. Even among democrats there has been a woeful lack of engagement with health care if you compare it to the enthusiasm for Obama when he was running.
Obama has adopted views to the right of centrist views,and I don’t think that the vast majority of conservatives realize that. He has totally been Bush when it comes to signing statements but it’s been under the press radar, and everyone of his appellate filings in terrorism cases, state secrets, wiretapping cases, or cases about releasing information have been to the right of Bush literally either adopting Bush’s language or taking it further. It’s wild to see one of the most successful litigators trying to take the Bush administration’s positions apart now arguing the direct opposite of what he argued last year when he was at Georgetown Law. Now he’s Deputy Solicitor General–I’m talking about Neal Katyal who is now being forced to take positions the exact opposite of the ones he took the last three years.
Insurance companies are resisting a public alternative with everything they have because it might reign in the cost explosion and your very legitimate fear that dependents and spouses might soon be cut.
I don’t know what the answer is towards making preventive care successful, because whatever we’ve been trying and preaching for years just isn’t working in comparison with a number of other countries.
Boy Who Cried Wolf
August 11th, 2009
4:01 pm
Retiredds-I guess these same GW supporters were the same ones throwing insults at almost each and every press conference he ever had. It is laughable to hear one side act as if there bretheren have never attempted to disrupt any public gathering, and act so suprized that such things happen.
stands for decibels
August 11th, 2009
4:10 pm
I’ve read that last graf twice and I’m still shocked.
Jim, are you seriously suggesting that Hank Johnson shouldn’t have taken prudent security measures, given how heated this debate has become? Are you really–REALLY?–questioning Johnson’s bravery in this?
Really?
Just when I think you can’t sink any lower…
Chris Salzmann
August 11th, 2009
4:14 pm
How times have changed!
Fox editorialist Bill O’Reilly himself, from December 8, 2005: “The far left in this country, the zealots — I mean, these are zealots — are Nazis. And this is exactly what the Nazis did. They disrupted rallies, they came in to shout people down. They intimidated, they smeared, they did all of this.”
Remind you of some folks today?
Boy Who Cried Wolf
August 11th, 2009
4:18 pm
CrushingPub-3:59 post, very well done.
Boy Who Cried Wolf
August 11th, 2009
4:20 pm
Chris-exactly what i’ve been sayin,nutbags are not tied to just one party.
Chris Salzmann
August 11th, 2009
4:23 pm
Boy Who Cried Wolf August 11th, 2009 4:20 pm SAID: Chris-exactly what i’ve been sayin,nutbags are not tied to just one party.
CHRIS SAYS: Thanks. I agree.
Boy Who Cried Wolf
August 11th, 2009
4:28 pm
When talking about the ill-informed and the dumbing down of america,is it not rational to think that its due to a number of factors. 1)education( public schools) 2)biased media(both sides) & 3) strong efforts from our govnmnt/elected officials to keep us as little informed as possible.Just sayin
Chris Salzmann
August 11th, 2009
4:37 pm
Boy Who Cried Wolf August 11th, 2009 4:18 pm SAID: CrushingPub-3:59 post, very well done.
CHRIS SAYS: I agree. One of the issues that needs to be looked at is the fact that Medicare will eventually bankrupt this country. Traditionally, health insurance is based on the 80-20 principal. That is, 80% of the folks insured pay for the 20% who actually use the system on a regular basis. That is how a private health insurance system works. The problem with medicare is that, since the vast majority of folks are old, and getting older by the day, this system is turned on its head and is not economically viable. One reason private insurance companies are making huge profits is that there is a giant segment of the population that they do not have to worry about. You reach a certain age and retire from your group plan, you go in and sign up for Medicare and that’s that. Private insurance carriers no longer have to worry about you.
Medicare needs to be expanded to include younger folks. In some European countries (Germany is an example), you are automatically signed up on the government plan based on income. Once your income reaches a certain upper limit, you have the option to use private insurance carriers. This pretty evenly distributes the age pool of the insured and brings in a measure of viability and stability to health insurance plans as a whole.
Medicare needs to reinvent itself or its going to bankrupt this country. The only way to do that is to bring in a big pool of younger folks. The other option is of course, a “Death Panel” so they can “off” grandma before she becomes too much of a economic liability to the country
retiredds
August 11th, 2009
4:37 pm
Boy Who Cried Wolf, so which side do you think I am on. You imply that I am on the other side from you. FYI, the screamers and yellers on the left also marginalize themselves.
Chris Salzmann
August 11th, 2009
4:44 pm
Boy Who Cried Wolf August 11th, 2009 4:28 pm SAID:
When talking about the ill-informed and the dumbing down of america,is it not rational to think that its due to a number of factors. 1)education( public schools) 2)biased media(both sides) & 3) strong efforts from our govnmnt/elected officials to keep us as little informed as possible.Just sayin
CHRIS SAYS: I disagree to an extent. Public schools doesn’t mean dumbing down. The folks in California, Washington, Maine, New York, etc, use Public school systems yet they seem to be better informed. Maybe its because many states in the South are actually at the bottom of the ladder when it comes to Public school standards. I mean, isn’t GA around 46 or 47 followed closely by other conservative Southern states.
As far as elected officials trying to keep us as little informed as possible, the darn bill is available for everyone to see. Unlike the Patriot Act, there’s a lot more discussion going on here than that.
Steve
August 11th, 2009
4:49 pm
Deegee,
I am fully aware that my employer pays a great portion of my healthcare. That along with my salary, vacation, company paid holidays, and personal days are part of what’s known as my ‘Employment Package’.
Don’t be foolish enough to believe because one person stumbled at Spector’s question that everyone is simply questioning Health Care for the sake of questioning it.
Tort reform would go a long way to help ease the high cost of medical insurance. However no one in Congress wants to discuss that.
What peple are angry about is that Obama and Pelosi tried to RAM the Health Care plan through congress so fast no one even looked at it to see what was included. This document is over 1000 pages. People who have read it indicate it is very confusing (are you surprized since it was written by government personnel).
Typically, the government does a terrific job of indicating they will run something and then fall on their butts. They have already screwed the bond holders of GMC and Chrysler with the government take over of those companies. Why would I assume they would get this right? Like most other legal American citizens, I want to make sure this plan is thoroughly reviewed and it makes the most sense for everyone (especially the tax payers who will be footing the bill).
GaNative
August 11th, 2009
4:54 pm
Ummm, of course politicians are afraid. All they have to do is look at how the republicans got booted out of power. Now on the topic of health care. It’s not what it used to be so why not try change for a while? I remember years ago listening to my wife brag about benefits. Now the only benefit she see is how they take more from her check in premiums and cover less when she visits the doctor. It’s time for a CHANGE.
Chris Salzmann
August 11th, 2009
4:54 pm
Steve August 11th, 2009 4:49 pm SAID: ….Tort reform would go a long way to help ease the high cost of medical insurance. However no one in Congress wants to discuss that.
CHRIS SAID: Have to step away but Tort reform does not work. It’s been done in some states, i.e. Texas, and those folks have not seen any reduction in health insurance costs. This is typical of the arguments used by the health insurance lobby and it has shown no savings of any significance.
Nice try.
Boy Who Cried Wolf
August 11th, 2009
5:01 pm
Chris – I agree, I was speaking in general.
Steve
August 11th, 2009
5:03 pm
We need to show corporations once and for all that profits will not be tolerated in the healthcare industry.
The healthcare industry should be operated on the basis of volunteerism, government efficiency, and government malaise. NOT profit motive.
Nationalize them all and the government can use the profits to balance the budget.