Colleges should voluntarily ban the speed suits? It won’t happen. I wonder when high schools will get around to testing players for growth hormones? When there is a plethora of 16-year-olds who are 6′6″ and weigh 300 pounds, there is something screwy going on.
You’re absolutely right about the high schools. There is a serious problem there as well. Since there is so much concentration on the pros, which is natural, the lower levels are getting ignored.
This is a dumb article. When I play sports, I want the best equipment available to allow me to perform my best. If the proper authorities have not deemed it illegal then its not cheating. Don’t go around accusing the athletes of cheating when you’re really upset at the NCAA authorities for not banning the equipment.
You know absolutely nothing about swimming. If you were in the least involved with the sport of swimming you would realize that the new generation swim suits are nothing like performance enhacing drugs. It just so happens that it increases your body buoyancy and it makes you feel better in the water. Stop blaming the sport for this called “silliness” and focus on steroid using MLB players and NFL criminals. If swimmers are staying three to a room is because it has always been that way, since the early years in club swimming, you try to cut costs so you can afford the top notch technology. Sorry, swimmers are not like college football players who stay at the best hotels with all you can eat shrimp/steak. The GT swim team probably works the hardest out of anyone and in no way shape or form do they cheat. By the way, get you facts straight, it’s not the Michael Phelps suit. It is made by Speedo and worn by many athletes. Do your research first, and if your not invloved in the sport at all, please stay away from it.
I don’t get it. Are the suits illegal or does Terrance just think that they should be illegal because they are expensive? Like his other articles, this one is hard to understand. AJC should hire someone to proof read Terrance articles to be sure they are okay before they publish them.
I have a serious question for you. By what rule is GT’s (or anyone else’s) use of these swimsuits illegal or CHEATING? Cheating means that you’re violating a rule. Please reference a rule.
Also, what about the (GT) baseball team’s use of aluminum bats? Those bats have a greater impact on its sport (HR, BA, RBI) than the new swimsuits have on its sport. Will you also declare aluminum bats cheating?
Your headline is wrong and sensationalistic. Once again I ask, does the AJC employ editors? Clearly not, as your incompetence wouldn’t be tolerated.
This is in no way related to performance enhancing drugs. Advances in technology is the way of the way of the world. This is why the NCAA switched to aluminum bats instead of wood. Track shoes are constantly becoming more sophisticated. I also hate your arguement about it is unfair to those schools who can not afford the suit. Football recruits always pick schools who have the state-of-the-art training facilities. Smaller schools can not compete with larger schools’ athletic budgets. These schools always have better equipment. I don’t hear you crying foul against the NCAA for not mandating that each school have the same training equipment in their gym. I don’t see you complaining that UT Chattanooga can’t afford the bats that UGA or Rice use. Money is what seperates great athletic programs from the poor ones. Not only can schools with money afford the best equipment but they can also hire the best coaches. When a product is available to all then the playing field is even. If a school can’t pay to keep up with the competition then they need to get out of the pool.
You’re an idiot, and you digust me for throwing around the word cheating like that.
“cheat – To violate rules deliberately, as in a game”
Which rule is being violated again? I guess wide receivers that wear gloves are cheaters too? What about baseball teams that can afford better bats than others, cheating? Are NASCAR teams that can afford better parts and more practice time cheating?
What a freakin moron. Although I guess you got what you wanted….more page hits. You apparently don’t care that it comes at the expense of your character. Real classy.
The San Francisco Chronicle has been cheating for years by offering leftist views of everything from politics to sports. Hmmm…. Just like the Atlanta Journal & Constitution. SFC is about to close it’s doors. Hopefully the AJC is on it’s way out as well. Intelligent people have real jobs that contribute to the growth of our country. The pseudo-intelligent attempt to write about what they do not understand. I think Mr. Moore is in this second class. I hope you have some useful skills, because the ones you are using now are becoming obsolete.
Other things that are unfair based on Terrence’s logic:
– Today’s match-up in the 1st round of the Match Play Championship, Tiger Woods vs. Brendan Jones is unfair. Tiger makes way more money than Jones and his endorsement deals with Nike undoubtedly give him an edge in drivers, irons, wedges, putters, balls, tees, etc.
– UGA’s football team has way more money to spend than Georgia Southern on equipment like better cleats, better uniforms, better pads, better helmets, so that’s unfair.
– GT’s baseball series this past weekend against Lipscomb was unfair because GT has more money to spend on bats, gloves, practice facilites.
– It’s also unfair that I graduated college and have a full-time job and make money to support myself and my family, but the homeless guy that lives outside CNN Center has to beg for money.
The headline is outrageous, and the article isn’t far behind. To say they are cheating is a complete lie. They are doing everything in the rules and not even trying to go around the rules. These suits are completely legal. You make it sound like these COLLEGE ATHLETES are doing something wrong. Find something else Terence.
It’s one thing to have to roll my eyes at the usual dreck written by Moore, but this is outright libel (by falsely accusing the Georgia Tech athletic department of cheating, when they have broken exactly zero rules).
It sure is going to be a shame when the AJC bites the dust.
Hey, I am going to pull an Al Sharpton and demand an apology from the AJC and Terrance Moore. You have accused Georgia Tech of cheating when they have not. Who do you think you are, Lane Kiffin?
Are you kidding me? Is this a serious editorial? If it is, you clearly don’t understand what “life” lessons the Tech kids are learning. They are learning about competing at the highest level and about sacrifice. No one is handing these swimsuits to these kids. They are managing budget to make sure they have what they can afford to be as successful at their endeavor as possible. Would you expect the kids at Tech to use lesser computers to do their schoolwork simply because other schools can’t afford them? This is about tools and a swimsuit is just another tool. As long as those tools are legal in whatever endeavor you choose, you should be allowed to use them. Comparing swimsuits to steroids is just another example of how you simply don’t get how real competition works.
Cannot agree with you on this one, Terence. It’s not cheating. Everyone clearly knows the suit the swimmers wear and it does not violate any rules. So, it’s not secret and it’s not a violation of any rules. It cannot by definition be called cheating.
It’s nothing more than better shoes, or better gloves, or bats.
Is a better weight room cheating? Is a water training pool cheating? These are but two of many devices in use at high end training facilities that not all schools can afford. Should they be banned?
Ultimately, your receipe stymies innovation. Eventually many training techniques and devices once unaffordable became standard at all schools. If you determine rules that prevent their use, then there is no incentive to create them.
I have a real problem with this whole notion that the suit is illegal and arguing about the cost. What if there were really expensive shoulder pads and helmets for football that allowed players to run faster? Are those illegal too? And the quantity of records broken and % by the suit is a horrible statistic to use. How many of the top swimmers in the world wore the suit who would realistically have broken a record this year? Probably in the 75% range like the percentage of records broken by those with the suit. And the shear number of records does not have to due with the suit, but with the fact that last year was an olympic year. There are always many more records borken in olympic years since it is the pinnacle of swimming, what all swimmers train to have their best performances for. And the cost, I don’t see us banning certain golf clubs from collegiate sports for cost because some schools cant afford them, or certain bikes from cycling because they are too expensive and aerodynamic. This suit falls within the parameters set out but international swimming. These kids and young adults still train their butts off for this sports. In football, baseball, basketball, if you need the best equipment (shoes, helmets, pads) to compete then the schools goes out and buys it, why not for swimming too?
Lay off the insults on Terrence. You can tell by his picture he has just a touch of Downs; we should be applauding his efforts at journalism, not breaking him down.
Disgusting is what your accusation is. Cheating is what you’re doing to the AJC – as in robbing them of money for this crap.
Leave the article for the humorous display of your ignorance, but you need to change the headline immediately. Then call the folks over at GT and apologize.
Terence, I do not agree with you at all. It isn’t cheating when a school adopts better quality equipment to train and perform. Not unless there’s a rule against it. For swimmers, the suits are not a secret. No one is trying to trick anyone. It isn’t like steroids or HGH where no one is sure what the root of the performance is.
Throughout history, big schools often secure better equipment that other schools may not initially afford. But over time, the equipment becomes standard. Alumni boosters contribute to their schools to finance improved training facilities. Are improved weight rooms cheating? Are water training pools cheating? Hardly!
there’s a notable difference in performance enhancing drugs and performance enhancing equiment. the type of equipment one is using is outwardly visible for all to see. the allure of drugs has been that unless caught, their effects enhance the user and no one’s the wiser. if you have a problem with equipment then make separate leagues. a player’s true skill would certainly become more evident and i like the idea of that. i still ultimately feel banning equipment could become a slippery slope, especially with the pace of technology.
I echo the rest of these comments. Mr. Moore I can not believe you go as far as to say Tech is CHEATING! I agree with the other person on this blog in that you owe an apology along the lines of Lane Kiffin’s. What an absolute disgrace to the ajc and it’s image as a legit newspaper. If this article is published I will stop supporting the AJC and only read Dave O’Brien’s blog.
This is true ignorance. I am starting to see a trend here from Mr. Moore. The perfect parallel to this is the Tiger Woods golf analogy. In essence the stance you are taking says that the game of golf was tarnished when players no longer used wooden clubs. It is the same with college baseball and aluminum bats.
When the first player put cleats on the bottom of his shoes, was it cheating? How about the first time someone wore a a non-cotton jersey? Or when a football player first donned a helmet? Or when a first-baseman began using a differently-designed glove?
So we should return to leather helmets? Persimon drivers and shafts? Sports and athletes adjust to the changes in technology. There is a wide gulf between uses of advances in technology and performance enhancements through steroids etc. I weigh 300 pounds, you think if I put on a LZR is could break a world record? If I hit Tiger’s driver would it go 340? If I wore Chipper’s gloves could I bat .364? The argument is foolish.
As my name implies, I am a UGA alum, however, it is clear that Terrence Moore needs to apologize to the Institute as a whole and the Swim Team individually.
Comparing some so called “speed suit” to performance enhancing drugs is not only faulty logic, it is just plain laughable.
If Moore cannot discern the difference between illegal/banned substances and advances in technology related to sports-specific tools (bats, balls, gloves, speed suits, etc), then Mr. Moore is far worse off than I once believed.
Personally, I can’t believe this one made it to print, but, oh well.
Not a Tech fan here but this is absurd! The technology is there and it’s legal. I’m actually impressed that some teams are sleeping 3 to a room to save money. This should be applauded, not condemned. Hell, I slept 3 to a room until my older brother left for college. In these difficult economic times I would prefer they make sacrifices like room arrangements rather than increasing ticket prices and asking for more of the athletic budget. If the swimsuit technology is bogus, the consider:
1. Pole vault records with “high tech” poles.
2. Track events that are conducted on “high tech” synthetic surfaces.
3. Composite “high tech” tennis rackets the size of hula hoops.
4. Juiced-up “high tech” baseballs to increase home runs.
5. “High tech” baseball bats to improved batting percentages.
6. Tobaggon races in “high tech” units.
For that matter, I’m a much more efficient sales manager because of my “high tech” gadgets. The list goes on and on. Technology is a reflection of life. Rotary dials and party lines are a thing of the past, Terence, so move on.
In closing I’ll repeat, I admire the Tech mens team for making sacrifices (wow, Terence, 3 to a room – how barbaric) to gain the equipment to make them more competitive. Successful businesses do it every day. Good job, guys, and good luck in your quest for an ACC championship.
I believe that Terrence Moore is CHEATING on his BLOG!!! I have heard from a reliable source that Mr. Moore uses a “computer” to complete his writing assignments. These computers have things called “Spell Check” and “Dictionaries” that aid Mr. Moore in his writing abilities, therefore giving him an advantage over those who cannot afford a computer. The AJC should really step up and ban these “computers” because they are so expensive and that they provide an unfair advantage to its writers.
How can you look at yourself in the mirror after accusing and proclaiming at college program is a cheat? If I were Dan Rad, I’d be on the phone with your bosses quicker than you could blink. How exactly is Tech, or anyone else wearing these suits, cheating? They aren’t breaking any rules. They found a competitive advantage, but as long as it’s allowable under the rules, it’s not cheating. You most definitely owe some folks, namely Tech and the swim team, and apology. At minimum, you should get back on the blog and issue an apology there. In reality, some face to face time with Dan Rad and the swimmers is needed.
Terence’s writing is not unlike a 4-person fatality crash on the Downtown Connector. Common sense suggests that onlooking is in no one’s best interest, but the carnage is strangely alluring.
You should re-title your column from “My Opinion” to “My Immolation”, as you are the only professional writer that torches themselves for the purpose of building an audience.
Terrence, once again you are right on the money with your insightful article. These darn swimsuits should be banned! Imagine a college spending that kind of money on a sports contest. Just ridiculous. And not fair either! I say all swimmers who wear the speed suits should have to hit a bong one good time just before the start of each race. That should make things even. Except for Phelps, I think he can smoke up and still swim like a Tuna. I don’t know what we can do to make it fair for him to compete. Maybe make him wear his Olympic medals while he competes, that should slow him down some.
I am now dumber and have a headache after reading this article. I should go get some Advil, oh wait, under Terence rules that would be cheating, maybe I should put a leech on my forehead instead. Or maybe I should go to the hospital to get a CT scan, oh wait again, that would be cheating according to Terence Moore because I have enough money to afford to go to a hospital and use a technological breakthrough.
Terence Moore, you should be ashamed and fired!!!!
Mr. Moore, you are entitled to your own opinion, but the headline accusing these student athletes of cheating is out of line and should be removed. As the parent of a GT swimmer I am offended that you equate the use of these suits – which are a ‘legal’piece of equipment- to doping and steroid use. You owe an apology to the GT swimmers.
terrence, it looks like you got moved down to the minors after the griffey fiasco. all i can say is ITS ABOUT TIME. i hope they keep giving you crap like this so you can’t screw anything else up. this story is like saying teams shouldn’t be able to wear “air jordan’s.” yes they are expensive and some would say they make you “like mike,” but all that really matters is how good you are as an athlete not your equipment.
why dont you join the cast of “rome is burning” FOREVER. that way your all the way across the u.s. and you can hang with jim rome everyday, he’s a bigger clown than you are!!!
If I wasn’t a parent of a GT swimmer I might ignore this ridiculously silly article, but your headline accusibg these student athletes of cheating is unforgivable. You owe these swimmers a peronal apology for impugning their character, and GT an apology for your libelous statement.
I’m sure Asher has his reasons, and until circumstances prove him otherwise, I support his decision.
Just think back a couple of years ago with Danny Ware. Fewer and fewer touches each season and Brown and Moreno projected to dominate the touches the following season. Ware bolted for the NFL. I, like most, scoffed at his decision. That is, of course, until he was being measured for a Super Bowl ring after the Giants upset the Patriots.
I know, I know, he may not ever turn out to be a great running back, however, would he have truly helped himself for the pros had he stayed another year at UGA? Even the most cynical person would answer “no”?
I don’t blame you for not responding much to people in your blog. I can’t believe how much hostility posters have here. It’s really ugly.
While I think I understand the point you’re making – that suits too expensive for everyone to afford create an uneven playing field — I’m not sure what the remedy is. To follow your logic, swimmers should still be wearing full length suits made of cotton, like in the 1920’s. Swimsuit technology has been evolving for decades. Sometimes there’s a hiccup in price/supply, but it’s going to be temporary. These Nike suits are relatively new. Someday, soon, they won’t be. And by the way, the USGS has been pondering club changes for how long? Decades? The two issues don’t seem to have a lot in common.
As for the comparing a swimsuit to performance enhancing drugs that could have serious, adverse health effects on athletes… well, on its face this is a plausible argument (even for a columnist who needs to be a little outrageous to get people reading and talking. )
Absolutely insane. I’ve now lost all respect for Terrence. I understand what your point is, but to present it as the swimmers are somehow cheating is not only poor “journalism” but borderline unethical. I guess it’s a good thing it came from Terrence instead of a respected writer. Atlanta is ashamed to play host to your ignorant ramblings.
Terence you are absolutely pathetic. Your blogs serve no purpose other than insulting sports and giving a useless opinion to Rustle feathers. There is a reason you have not responded to these comments other than one of the first ones that somewhat agreed with you because I think it dawned on you how mental you really are. I also think most of these comments were put up because you pick a sport you obviously know nothing about, pick a topic about the sport you know nothing about, and then you write one lame a** article that wasted a lot of people’s time. Mr. Moore before you ever write a blog anywhere half as ridiculous as this one, get your facts straight and then maybe try and use your small brain to write a blog worthy of reading. Also being closely affiliated to the swim team, only one meet this whole season have the swim team had to sleep three to a room. Maybe you should transfer on over to the entertainment section of the AJC and do a blog of how unfair it is that richer families can afford to take their kids to casting calls and poorer families cannot. Or maybe you should just keep your mouth shut about topics you have no knowledge about.
I count 1.5 posts in this article defending Terrence Moore. Out of 55. And both of those weren’t really defending him, just admonishing the others who commented on the hostility of the comments.
For me, I think you owe Tech an apology. This is a blatant hatchet job by you. The suits are within the rules, and competing at the highest level in swimming virtually requires them. The students who are on the swim team that are finding ways to pay for them without asking for more money should be commended, not slandered.
I don’t think I can add anything more than what the comments have already expressed. This is just a ridiculous article. I think you were trying to make a point about sleeping three to a room to save money to buy suits; however, you only showed how stupid your argument is in calling us cheaters because I’m sure other swimming programs from a larger or smaller school have the money in funds to not sleep 3 to a room and still buy the suits out right. So they’re “cheating” more than us I suppose… Only if I were being totally illogical about the whole situation.
Hey Terence, didn’t you say the triple option wouldn’t work this year? Oh ya, you’re that guy..
Allen, polite and soft spoken? I don’t think so. The Allen I remember was a hot dog who led the world in penalties and did a victory dance after giving up big chunks of yardage. Terrence must be writing about someone else.
Terrence, don’t write about things you obviously know nothing about.
Accusing Georgia Tech of cheating for wearing these suits is libel
Comparing the LZR to steroids is simply asinine.
Providing athletes with anything but the best the market has to offer (assuming it’s legality) amounts to neglect of the team. In fact, the crime here is not that Tech Swimmers wore these suits but that they had to stay two and three to a cheap hotel room to be able to do so. The restless night’s sleep they got as a result most certainly hurt them more than the suit helped the next day.
It is uninformed “authorities” like yourself who don’t understand why a swimming budget should provide the proper equipment for its athletes while they bend over backwards to roll out the red carpet for big name sports.
Would you approve if a track team only provided tennis shoes for it’s runners? If the cycling team rode on 100 dollar Wall-mart bikes because racing bicycles cost too much? If the football team used heavier, lower quality pads and helmets because of the price?
Colleges spend outrageous sums of money giving big name sports expensive equipment. They can most certainly afford to provide these swim suits to their swimmers. They simply have other priorities.
Furthermore, performance enhancing drugs (heavily tested for in swimming) provide an outside advantage to an athlete by building an unnatural amount of muscle without work. The athlete is innately better because he has taken an illegal substance.
These suits provide no “Enhancement” whatsoever to performance. An athlete wearing this suit is not stronger. He is simply wearing the suit that is best at eliminating drag (the goal of all speed oriented sports), thereby removing a negative outside impact upon his performance. If the suit was buoyant or had a motor built in, we would be having a different discussion.
The NCAA can’t ban this suit without banning every other competition suit on the market. For decades, swimmers have realized that drag hurts swimming performance greatly. This is why you don’t see us competing in swim trunks. The LZR is just one in a long line of past and future products that does its job well. These suits are painstakingly manufactured and as a result, they bear a high cost. That $550 you quote only looks unreasonable to those who nothing about the sport. Swimmers have been paying around that for top of the line suits for a decade.
To say, however, that a swimsuit is the reason swimmers have crushed world records recently is downright insulting. These athletes sacrifice their entire lives to be the best at the sport, constantly training and honing the newest, most efficient techniques.
It only makes sense to put a swimmer who wakes up at 4am for the first of two daily practices (while trying to get a degree in between) in a top of the line swimsuit, the one that will afford him the ability to perform his best. But the suit does not make the swimmer. The greatest benefit of any top of the line suit is the mental factor. They feel wonderful to wear in the water and help a swimmer to translate constant training into confidence in a race.
Perhaps the reason so many world records have been broken recently has something to do with the fact that swimming is currently dominated by a number of fantastic athletes, the likes of which we have never seen before.
Put Phelps or Lochte or Coughlin in fur coats and work boots and they will still swim world records. You could have put weights in Jordan’s shoes and he still would have flown.
The sport itself is getting faster because the science behind training, nutrition, and coaching has steadily improved. Today we can take the most talented, most dedicated athletes, and use the most sophisticated techniques to make them the best. But for any of that to work, expect 30 hours a week in the water and no days off from age 11. The suit is merely icing on the cake.
Next time you write something, learn just a little bit about the topic first. Just because you specialize in writing opinion articles doesn’t mean that you’re excused from knowing fact. Opinions are thoughts about information, not emotional diatribes without support.
Congratulations on spitting in the faces of dozens of young athletes who have a dedication and a work ethic that you will never know or understand. You might think you do if you played high school or college football or basketball or whatever. But trust me, these kids work way harder than any other non-pro athletes on the planet. Oh, and they’re getting a degree from Georgia Tech while they’re at it.
First off, the swimsuits retail at $550 a piece for the model that covers most of the body, other models can be purchased at retail price for $350.00-$450.00. For example breaststrokers almost always use the version that does not cover the legs and arms, and it is $350.00 retail.
Secondly, everyone is always quoting the retail price. Speedo sells the suits to club swimmers at 70% off retail for national level swimmers if the club has a speedo contract. You need to talk to Stu about if Tech as an agreement with Speedo before you start quoting costs that are not real. And if the swimmers want to cut costs to the school to afford the suits, good for the swimmers. You didnt praise their thriftiness in the current bad economy, but no, an athlete from Tech can only “cheat” apparently.
Yes and thank you for accusing my alma mater of cheating. You did not include that Georgia’s mens and womens team wore Blue 70’s, another type of racing suit that costs as much at the SEC’s last weekend at Auburn. I did not see you accuse Jack or YOUR precious Dawgs of cheating.
It is totally your opinon that the speedsuits should be banned by the NCAA. Did I miss the article you wrote about the “cheating” of the major conference football teams when they changed to the more expensive helmets to prevent concussions. Or for the cost of the 100 Black jerseys that Georgia wore in some special game last year.
Lets see wearing a special swimsuit is equalivant to putting harmful chemicals in your body to achieve better results. Am I to assume that the magical powers of the suit are transferred to the individual permanently as with drugs?
Maybe you should learn something about swimming before you show your ignorance to the world in a column. I didnt see you at the US Nationals held at Tech in December. Please go back to writing about the Dawgs and the Braves. I think you owe the coaches and swimmers at Georgia Tech an apology, I know many of them, and for all their hard work you tar them with this piece of crap Mr. Moore.
I can’t stand Terrence in general – I don’t think he even wrote a favorable word about GT when we beat UGA fair and square in football in 2008. But Terrence, don’t throw around libelous statements like that without doing your research like a real reporter. AJC, this is too far for one of your writers to go. Absolutely absurd.
Those who don’t “get it” don’t get that they don’t get it. Terence falls into the category of people who don’t get that they don’t get it.
Mr. Moore, I believe you owe the Georgia Tech swim team and their coaches an apology. But I’m going to guess by the nature of many of your previous columns that you don’t have the integrity to give one.
Asher was good. Not great. I don’t remember him being that much of “splendid” kick returner, Prince Miller was much better, providing only highlight in the Bama game. And if he is so “splendid” as a kick returner why was Logan Gray the primary punt returner?
Hmm, he measured in at 5′9, 194 and only has 3 INTs in 24 starts. 4.47 was his unofficial time. He was slower than that in his official. He’ll be a second day choice in April’s draft. Good for him. Gotta bail on a sinking ship. 8-4 next year for the folks in Athens. And the whining begins…
You sir are an idiot. If thinking by your logic, then we should have all track athletes go bare foot. Not everyone can afford new shoes in this economy, and hey they improve a runners ability. So too do new types of running outfits. Or should we have competative skiers go back to the ski designs of 1910? Or how about the suits they wear? Or what about the bobsleds? Or possibly the football uniforms? You see, you like your writing, have a closed and outdated outlook. The sport is passing you by and so is the world. Jump on the train of progress or get off, I dont really care.
I would say your article smacks of Communistic rhetoric, but hey China would take the same steps as youu have implied Georgia Tech did. It is called the evolution of the sport sir. You and your backward thinking will prove the Darwanian model and disapear. So, I say adieu and let you embrace extinction.
You should just resign for ignorant NON-reporting….this is garbage! Consider this a slander towards Georgia Tech and consider my just one more cancelled subscription to this so-called regional newspaper!
T. Moore….learn how to write articles and maybe start at the high school level again because that is the equivalent of your writing!
Maybe the Tech swim team should stop obsessing over these swim suits and spend some more time in the water practicing! It does not matter what suits they wear they are not going to make enough time to beat North Carolina or Georgia. And if they did, then Ugag would prob spend some of its millions of dollars and buy the entire team and its managers a pair
Terence, someone at the AJC should wise-up and ban you. I’ve been reading your poor excuse for a sports page for over 40 years, and you are, by far, the worst reporter that I have ever read. The sad part is that your actually arrogant, which shows just how ignorant you are. There is only one person, in my life, that I can say I actually dislike from just reading their column, and that is you.
Once again Terrance you show your ignorance. I know your trying to compete for space in the Atlanta Urinal and Constipation but this is one of your worst attempts to take a stab at GT.
Is definitely not a GREAT kick returner…Average at best…Probably going fifth or sixth round…Supremely stupid for coming out early…Another dumb #@$# column by the hack Terence Moore…
Unfortunately, Terrance, you obviously do not have any idea what you are saying. Coming from someone who was at Women’s ACC’s last week, there were NO girls sleeping three to a room last week, and EVERY school had some form of a second generation suit, whether it be the LZR or the Blue Seventy. Obviously it was not too hard for the schools to get the suits they needed. It is absolutely ridiculous for you to suggest that the swimmers at Georgia Tech are just cheating their way into victory, (congratulations to the GT Men’s 200 medley relay). If you had any idea of what the swimmers at GT were doing, you would know that they have been working hard all season to swim fast at ACC’s and shame on you for saying that they have been cheating. I personally believe you owe them an apology and should do a little more research before you slander someone else.
Terence, The GT Swim team should sue you for libel. You accusations are shameful and down right lies. The swim team has broken no NCAA rules. Do you even know what “cheat” means?
I would feel like the biggest idiot in the world if I continued to read a column only to put down the guy who writes it. If you don’t like it don’t read it!
I agree with Jeremy. When I first read this article I thought it was a joke. I don’t think I’ve ever read anything more ridiculous in my life. I seriously hope you weren’t paid a prodigious amount of money for writing this drivel because you obviously took no time in researching your subject. Swimmers devote their whole lives to this sport and men’s collegiate swimming championships is something men work years towards perfecting and preparing for.
Next time you want to make yourself sound like a complete a total waste of humanity, try not to slander and falsely accuse one of the hardest working teams in the ACC, you idiot.
Thanks for doing more PR work for us, like every ignorant journalist who needs an angle to write about swimming because “these young men work their brains out” isn’t good enough.
why is it that you dog on the jacket swim team for cheating (never mind that you have no basis for that claim) but you keep quite on paul hewitt and what he has done to the georgia tech basketball program. And the only way we can rid ourselves of this suite wearing dead weight is to bankrupt our entire AA.
meanwhile paul hewitt seems to be just fine according to your patty cake interview. did any difficult questions just not come to mind? he has no trouble sleeping at nite even though his performance over the last 4 years is far worse than bobby cremins last 4 years. And bobby was gracious enough to not hold our feet to the fire when he left….. unlike phew will do .
let me get this straight……….after having 3 losing seasons and an one underachieving season over the last 4 seasons. setting records for losses as we go AND paul hewitt is admitting that has never recruited this hard? say wha? 3 losing seasons over the last 4 an he didnt have a clue that maybe he needed to work a bit harder AND SMARTER like 3 years ago maybe????? do something different? to quote a movie ‘ hello mcfly is anybody home?’
paul hewitt hasnt made a single change to his program over the last 5 years. same offense. same defense. same method of instructions. same coaches. same long tall black athletic players that have little bb iq are generally slow and not good ball handlers. i guess paul hewitt is finally deciding that enough is enough after 4 years. him being the decider and all. we certainly cant accuse paul hewitt of having any sense of urgency re the georgia tech bb program.
with a contract like the one paul hewitt has i guess he can say ‘ what me worry’.
terrance i think that if you want to write a REAL relevant article i suggest you write about why a coach would ruin the very basketball program that made him a millionaire. after all, its not like gt has treated paul hewitt poorly. even though he should have been canned last year, he just got the ad’s vote of confidence
yet…. he runs our program with nonchalance and cavalier attitude and makes no apologies about it. ask him hard questions and we are met with anger and arrogance.
does that sound like a man of integrity to you?
anybody?
yes folks i think we have a basis for a multi part article. anybody else like to see terrance interview THE paul hewitt? And maybe ask some tough questions?
Terence, I hope and believe you can see the difference between trolls and good folks with sincere and deep-seated disagreement. Calling a program cheating requires a lot of hard prove, none of which you can have because of the facts stated. You’ve genuinely insulted a lot of people. Frankly, having read the responses, you really should consider an apology.
It’s closer to cheating that you had to report on another article instead of doing your own research. I think it’s great that these swimmers are making personal sacrifices to get the equipment they desire instead of asking someone else to pay for it. I don’t expect you to understand making personal sacrifices instead of asking for something for nothing.
I have never read anything so ignorant. You are accusing someone of cheating when you don’t know what you are talking about. FINA has approved the suits for competition, they are legal, and that is cheating? It’s unfrotunate that people are even reading this and wasting their time responding to someone so dillusional. You should go and hide in embarrasment, because you have lost all of your credibility.
I think Allen cheated. How can he leave early for the NFL when every other player can’t? Some players will actually have to return for their senior season. It just isn’t fair. I wonder if Allen took any performance enhancers to get that 40 time. Oh and there is a reason that he ran his slowest time at the combine. It’s the only accurate measure he has ever had.
Terrence – I know my observation is redundant, but man, people really do release their passive aggressive racist feeling on this blog. How sad; for them!
The entire uga team cheats having an indoor pracitce facility. Not all schools can afford that for their players. If Allen benefitted from it, then he should not be allowed to profit from football. He, Stafford, and Moreno should have to return because of this cheating.
Asher is indeed a polite, intelligent, well-spoken young man who would do well in any arena he elects to compete in. My only regrets are that he could have been an even higher draft pick next season (after what would likely have been an All-SEC year) and that he really should have completed his college education to prepare himself for life after football.
And for all of you Georgia detractors predicting a horrible (i.e. 8-4) record for the Dawgs next season, consider this: Tech went 9-3 and it was considered an amazing season. For Georgia, 8-4 is considered a disaster.
Only one such “disaster” on Coach Richt’s watch, and that was a long, long time ago. This Georgia team will be better than last year’s. They may not win the MNC or the SEC, but they will be a better team than the star-studded collection of players whose minds were already on the NFL last season. This bunch will be hungry. They’ll be ready. They’ll hit you in the mouth.
Enjoy your hour in the sun, Jacket fans. It ends next November.
Umm, this year would be a “disaster” for uga. From preseason national champs to second in the state. Then Corky, Slowshon and allen left to not repeat high expectations with terrible results.
Cheating appearntly means that a school is competing in a sport using something that they can afford to make them better but that their competition cannot afford…therefore, Alabama Footballis a bunch of cheaters because they bought the most expensive coach to make them better. UGA football is a bunch of cheats too! Salary caps for coaches! No more cheating!
Mary Kay Woodworth: Accusing GT of cheating is like accusing Mel Gibson of being drunk. It’s happened in the past so much you can’t help but think of cheating when you hear of the Yellow Hackets. Are y’all off probation yet anyway? Besides don’t use all those big words if you can’t at least spell them correctly.
4.16 = the average number of years between uga probations….you are due. let’s try to keep the number of arrests below the number of wins in ‘09 leg humpers.
TM,
Your comment is factually inaccurate. You should look up the word cheating in the dictionary before writing this type of article. In your logic, UGA should not have an expensive coach, staff or facilities, as that is not fair to a school with less opportunity.
Since when is staying in the Sheraton Four Points a cheap hotel? … I’m pretty sure that it’s a little more than $79. And since when is flying to UMD cutting budget costs? Great article … Your article is outright laughable.
Everytime I waste my time (that I will never get back) reading a article written by Moore, I understand why the AJC and other newpapers are failing. Seriously, where is journalistic integrity?? Cheating? What rule was broken?? If you did research, you would know that many of uga’s swimmers wear the same thing. I know that I’m just upping your read and vlog count, but man, this is rediculous to slander 18-22 year olds for using something perfectly legal to compete. I guess swimmers with hair shouldn’t be allowed to wear swim caps?
Wearing swimsuits that glide through water better than others does not equal steroids. If you had a brain, you would know the big knock on steroids in the pros is that it is dangerous and encourages or forces high school athletes to use the same to compete. These swimsuits are not dangerous, but would be analagous to a team having an indoor facility or better aluminum bats. Please TMoore, take the next early retirement package and leave the kids or should I say white kids alone.
Cancel my subscription now and I will use the money I save to buy you a set of water wings. You’ll need the support because you have ventured in way over your head with this cesspool of lies your spreading on the GA Tech swim team. You owe the team and school a retraction and an apology for earlier comments…. Not some sneaky edit to your pre-print byline, 10 hours after posting it on this blog.
Despite my desire to fall right in with many of the comments here on your column, I’ll do my best to be respectful. However, I admit it will be difficult. Well, who am I kidding?
Did you retract the original headline? I ask this since there is no mention of the word “cheating” in the version of the column I read here. It appears that many of the responders on here are referencing not only an insinuation of cheating by the swim team at Tech, but also an explicit headline and, perhaps, wording in the article that accuses the Tech swim team of outright cheating. I didn’t see that so I am forced to assume you edited it. Good for you (or your editors) for taking the first step. However, what you should do especially in this day and age of the electronic media is explicitly apologize for your accusation(s). My apologies if my assumptions are incorrect.
I realize that columnists like yourself attempt to make their living on the “controversial, hard-hitting” topics. This one was controvsersial, but hard-hitting? Please accept my apologies, but this was a huge swing and a miss.
It’s columns and apparent attitudes like this (and too many other examples to mention) that are the reason that many of the people out here in the real world view the media as arrogant, elitist and, apparently, “less than educated.”
I’ve almost stopped reading the AJC altogether because every time I do, I see moronic drivel. This is especially poor journalism, and I’m officially finished helping the AJC with my mouse clicks and website hits.
Over the past three years I’ve gotten to know Asher well. There are many things about him that the public doesn’t know like that he’s a devoted Jehovah’s Witness. His actions off the field are admirable and he will serve an NFL team well.
Were you an athlete, ever? Do you know the dedication that it takes to succeed in an endurance sport like swimming and track? Clearly not, I doubt you could even swim to save your life.
Swimmers give up countless hours, working as hard as the can, only to drop the slightest amount of time. However, sometimes people drop seconds instead of tenths. It happens all the time in the swimming world with and without next generation suits. All this hard work is second nature to them and what they stive on, just like ignorance is to you.
I am ashamed and embarrassed for you. How dare you. You clearly are just slandering those that accomplished what you never could…success in sports.
Anxiously awaiting your resignation,
Simply Disgusted
I don’t think its necessary to read every article by Mr. Moore then take shots at him. However, after reading a lot of these articles without personal comment I will say this- out of the established writers here at the AJC Mr. Moore is the least professional in his approach to covering these schools, athletes, and coaches.
He does seem to take a more negative stance towards UGA in particular, especially football. He gives negative connotation to his titles to grab peoples attention. The thing I wonder is whether it is sort of an understanding with the AJC that he takes this stance to sort of counter the general favoritism of the other writers, or if it’s to generate more of a following to compensate for his less than professional writing skills. Personally I believe that UGA followers are going to read this stuff no matter who writes it. I know I do.
Now I’m not saying that Mr. Moore is some horrible writer by any means. I am by no means a titled professional and he by all means is. Some of his material is nice and gets the point across well. I just don’t think that most of his material is very well written. For instance, “Allen did the right thing by bolting Georgia early. That other stuff doesn’t matter, beginning with this: He is considered the other guy not named Matthew Stafford or Knowshon Moreno among the latest Bulldogs leaving before the end of their eligibility in search of barking their way into NFL fame.”, this is very awkward writing and leaves me wondering what it is exactly that he is getting at. This statement is just kind of something that started as a point but faded into a run on sentence that never went anywhere. I find it hard to believe that someone with a literary educational background would write something like this. I mean honestly, I can easily write better than this and my degree is science related.
Just my thoughts. I hope Mr. Moore will improve the quality of his work so that the purpose of his material doesn’t get lost in the criticism.
Terrence… good topic. I don’t agree with your assessment.
Your quote, “He is considered the other guy not named Matthew Stafford or Knowshon Moreno among the latest Bulldogs leaving before the end of their eligibility in search of barking their way into NFL fame.”
The problem with that comment is that Asher isn’t even being considered right now. No media is noticing him.
I knew his freshman year talent that he’d be in the NFL. But I don’t think he has “earned it”, yet. He’s got more to prove before he cracks an NFL squad. I’m afraid that he might be a practice squad guy before he’s going to figure out what he needs to do to maximize his natural gifts for the NFL.
I wish him the best. I doubt that it was the right decision in terms of a 1st contract signing bonus (for some players, that’s their only signing bonus). But maybe in his heart and for his family, he feels this is the time.
1) LZR racers are used by EVERY team at high level meets.
2) Georgia Tech doesn’t need to budget themselves with cheap hotel rooms. They’ve got enough money to run the CRC… Tech can afford to suit a team.
3) The swimmers at Tech are a fine exhibition of talent. If you throw a suit into a pool, it’s not going to set ACC records on its own. Have you considered the swimmer in the suit at all? Maybe the hours they put into their sport?
4) You should probably ACTUALLY go to swim meets. If you’ve ever seen a kid in a LZR that can barely make state, it becomes obvious that the swimmer makes the times, not the suit.
Is this really the best you can do to attract more readers? I am sorry your career has turned in such a bad way.
The paper you are working for will soon be out of business. Don’t you think you should grow up and try to do something of worth with your miserable life?
Ok, you have changed the title many times today as readers have righted you. Unfortunately, people can still see the original title in the top of the IE window that states “Michael Phelps suit inspires Georgia Tech swimmers to cheat.” If you were a decent person, you would issue an apology on paper that you were wrong and slanderous. Maybe if the swimmers weren’t white this would be possible for you?
Football players wear the best gloves (stickum) they can get. Basketball players wear the best shoes they can get (pump it up), and golfers use the best clubs and balls they can get. Unfortunately, only whiteys swim so therefore they cheat when using the best equipment. Is this really your argument Tmoore? If so, you need more material. Please try to read outside articles other than your bosses or colleagues. Your racism reaks.
Terrence Moore you are an idiot. You should be fired for slander and liable, and it makes me sick that you would call out these kids for doing nothing wrong. How can you report that the Tech men’s swim team is cheating when you know good and well they are playing within the rules. Its one thing if you think the suits should be banned, but to call a hard-working group of young men who are extremely intelligent for utilizing all the tools available to them to excell in a very difficult sport cheaters is absolutely disgusting. I hope the AJC wakes up soon and realizes what a joke you really are. Good day, sir.
Guess writing garbage like this to fuel some sort of flames is the only way to save the AJC. So, mission accomplished TM…everyone is reading this article now.
It doesn’t matter if the “media notices him.” If teams do, and they like what they see, he’ll be OK. At worst he’ll end up with a few hundred thousand dollars and three years of a college for free. That’s not bad and the upside is much better. Allen made a sound choice.
it is without question that ashley would have improved his draft status if he had stayed another year,but he elected to pursue a career with the nfl now.
we wish him well and appreciate his efforts while at uga.
as far as why, this buffoon writer wrote this type article is beyond.
me.
how can anyone explain the reasoning for what this guy writes. other than, this guy is goofy!
Stupid headline. I thought we had a deal that you would quit writing about UGA, and I would quit reading your articles. You broke the deal first, and I was sucked in.
Yeah Terrence, it was a truly enlightened decision to leave early after a poor year with no picks. He will go undrafted. By the way, thanks for losing us Ken Griffey Jr., you clown.
Good for him, and I’m glad that he is a respectable, polite young man. I wish him luck, and I am glad that he left to open up room for what should be a very talented secondary.
Thank goodness for such clarity! Now, let us get to banning new basketball arenas, football stadium renovations and the like. These items are so expensive. Many schools can not afford the multi-million dollar facilities. Your logic is nonsensical and devoid of any reason. Lets give all students C in school, all Americans the same color car and pay everyone equally. True socialism appears to be your bottom line. Some athletes, school, professional teams, newspapers, businesses have more opportunity that others. That is life. If you are inclined to put pen to paper FOR SWIMMING AND DIVING, please offer something constructive. Our sport is in need of support. Never again will purchase this paper. As well your editor should reconsider leadership.
I once was a hardliner on this subject, but now I’m of the mindset that, if a young athlete wants to leave college, he should leave. If you force him to stay, he’s not going to be motivated to study anyway.
Asher is a smart guy. So, he’ll return someday to get his degree.
Terrence, I understand that you feel that the NCAA should ban the suits. That’s fine. However, to accuse the GT swim team as “cheaters” is extremely out of line. I’ve read and enjoyed some of your articles in the past, but this is just unacceptable. To say the least, I’m quite disappointed, and hope to see an apology from you in the near future.
What shoes was Allen wearing Terence? If he had nice Nikes or UnderArmours then perhaps you should see how he paid for them and accuse him of cheating for using a shoe that allows him to distort his 40 time. Right, Terence?
I thought since the AJC doesn’t have Terence Moore’s e-mail listed on their contacts page that people might be interested in sending their feedback to him personally. tlmajc@aol.com
The times of Malcolm Jenkins and Asher Allen, along with those of pretty much every athlete in the draft, are slower than their previous times because of the way 40 times are done at the combine.
In college and in high school, they are usually hand clocked, which means that there is roughly a one-tenth to .15 second delay on starting and stopping. At the NFL combine, the clock automatically starts and stops as soon as the player starts in movement from the line.
Your ignorance astounds me. I just finished reading your article about the Georgia Tech Swim and Dive team wearing LZR’s this week at ACC’s. (Did you even know that ACC’s were this week? Doubt it.) I would love to join whichever union you are in that allows you to write such bull without getting fired. You have no business writing about swimming, and your article proves it.
I am no Michael Phelps fan; believe me, but to say that winning 8 gold medals this summer in Beijing was because of the suit is an insult to the entire world swimming community. That man worked his butt off his entire life to achieve what he did, and the suits had absolutely nothing to do with it. See, winning gold medals is about beating the people next to you, not breaking world records (and if you were capable of doing your job, you would see on the videos of his races that…THE COMPETITION WAS WEARING THEM TOO!! Oh my Gosh! No way!). To take shots at Phelps for wearing the best LEGAL suit available is like taking shots at Lance Armstrong for riding the best bike available, or Tiger Woods for using the best clubs available, or Michael Jordan the best shoes available, or Rafa Nadal for using the best racket (should I go on, or is my point starting to get through your immensely thick skull? I’ll keep going)…
You see, Terence, using good equipment is a completely different ball game than using performance enhancing drugs. Drugs alter your body chemically so that you can train better, get stronger then have the edge when you are competing, whereas using the best equipment has nothing to do with the chemical balance of the human body. The ILLEGAL drugs rarely used in swimming make the athlete stronger to go faster, whereas the LEGAL LZR’s, decrease drag, and help with buoyancy. Do you expect the NCAA and FINA to ban swimmers from shaving their legs too?
I also love how you chose to pick on the Georgia Tech Swim Team, and not UGA’s. Huh, I wonder if the UGA bred editors of the Atlanta Urinal had anything to do with that…
Anyway, Terence, every team in the NCAA has deals with companies that make suits; it’s how they can save money, and it’s advertising for the suit making companies. And, the professional swimmers get to sign with swim suit companies to get PAID to wear the suits. Man, so much for your argument about the economy. UGA’s swim team, for instance, is wearing the Blueseventy swim suit. Ever hear of that one Terence? I didn’t think so. The Blueseventy is a much cheaper Australian made suit that was designed from wetsuits; it keeps swimmers more afloat in the water and decreases drag…and most in the swimming community agree that it is faster than the LZR, and yet, in your vast research on this topic, you neglected to mention this. So why choose to go after Georgia Tech?
You are an idiot, and a disgrace to the sporting community.
The header on this page says “Michael Phelps suit inspires Georgia Tech swimmers to cheat”. The only suit you need to worry about is the libel suit heading your way. Georgia Tech is getting ready to own the largest student newspaper in the country. Hmmm. Instead of that, maybe just turning all the AJC property into a parking lot would be better use of the space.
I bleed Red & Black. With that being said I think it was a mistake for Allen to leave. He clearly was our best corner last season, but I never saw him as a player that should leave early. One thing I’d like to comment on is the idea that he was a “splendid kick returner”. I strongly disagree with that idea. He had some good returns here and there, but I wouldn’t say he was “splendid”. Keep in mind, this is coming from somebody that absolutely LOVES the Bulldogs and supports every single player and part of the program as much as possible. I just simply disagree with the idea that he was “splendid”. IMO, to leave early, you should have a VERY pressing financial need or you need to clearly be ready to go to the next level and made an impact. I don’t think one should leave early just to be in the league. Take Javaris Crittenton for example, he left GT after one year and he’s already played for THREE different teams in his young career. I HOPE that Allen makes it big, heck I hope he’s a first rounder, but if you ask for my honest opinion I don’t think he made the right choice. He’s a heck of a corner that would have benefited from a senior campaign.
Another thing I forgot to post in my original comment. I wish that you people would PLEASE STOP talking about these 40 times like they make or break the player. This guy ran a 4.55 so he’s not good while this guy ran a 4.4 so he’s better, give me a break. That’s a joke. At the end of the day you have to strap em up and play ball. NO football player comes out of a sprinter stance and runs in a straight line. The 40 yard dash is just as much about technique as it is about speed. The 3-cone drill is a better gauge in my opinion. I’d rather know how much quickness and agility a player has before I know how fast he runs in a STRAIGHT LINE, in plain clothes, and coming out of a sprinter stance.
Terence Moore needs to make a public apology for this one. He was totally out of line. His editors even defended him, saying in an email to me, saying Terence said it was “tantamount to cheating.” That’s not what was said at all…it wasn’t likened to cheating, he called them cheats. He needs to be suspended or fired for this one. He really crossed the line this time.
Terrence Moore: Colossal Dipshit
Do you even read about the things you spew your literary diarrhea on?
If you had your finger on the pulse of the swimming community instead of jammed up your ass, you would have realized that these suits are certified by the NCAA and are the standard, worn by any serious athlete. The performance gain seen is no different than compressive suits for running and weightlifting, comparing them to performance enhancing drugs is like comparing caffeine to cocaine. The swimming community has even recently imposed limits on what can be considered legal, limiting each swimmer to wearing one suit at a time.
You make accusations regarding the swim team’s coaching staff cutting financial corners without being burdened by their responsibilities. Words like “often” are thrown around all too casually (and wrongly), did you accompany the team “often”? Even going so far as to neglect the fact that swimming is paid far less than many other popular sports such as football. Can you imagine a football team without the very latest equipment? (can you say brain damage?). Can you fathom anyone giving other teams a competitive advantage because they think NCAA certified products are “silly”?
I don’t make a point of getting angry at ignorant idiots, i simply educate and make fun of them. If you are going to call a modern facet of someone’s sport silly, you may want to pick your battles more carefully, I doubt a LZR suit would “carry” you anywhere quickly (if you could fin in one that is).
There may be 20 high school corner backs in Georgia that are better than Allen. And I read a hell of a lot of sports articles written by better writers than Moore.
Let’s be honest. Asher never lived up to his expectations. If you aren’t a first round pick why would you leave early??? I don’t wish bad things on him but it seems like a pretty dumb move. I can’t imagine that too many NFL teams are busy looking for 5′9 corners who don’t have blazing speed.
Georgia’s defensive line last year was terrible making interceptions rare. The pro scouts will be the judge and will like what they see in Allen, a good, tough cornerback. low 1st or high 2nd round pick
How is Asher Allen’s case the same as Danny Ware’s? Asher Allen would be a returning starter and special teams specialist next season. Danny Ware was going to be on the bench for the entire season. There was Brown, Moreno, and Lumpkin. Danny Ware left because his services were no longer needed. He could not have played himself into a better draft pick. Allen had the chance to do exactly that. Mr. Moore, you can’t believe that he would not have benefited from playing another year of football at Georgia. I understand supporting Asher after he made his decision. But you know he should have stayed.
Asher is a great guy and I hope he makes 10 pro bowls, but he had a very unimpressive 2008 season and could have used another year. My biggest memory of Asher’s 2008 season was when Gary Danielson called him out for “lazy defense” during the LSU game. He got caught napping on a play and had to hold the guy to prevent him from making a reception. That one play pretty much sums up our defense’s entire season. Hand injury or not, he could have done better. I was shocked when he announced he was leaving early and do not think he is ready for the NFL. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.
Asher will be ok… At the time he made that decision I was like what the HELL… Good luck man… I remember your last high school game when u guys lost to my SWD PANTHERS and how u had broke your leg and how u came back to play your final game… Much respect for ya DAWG!! GOOD LUCK
Has anyone contacted DRad or the Tech administration about this to be sure they get involved? At the VERY least, Terrence Moore’s press credentials needs to be revoked, and he owes each member of the swim team a personal apology for accusing them of cheating.
Football players (at UGA, GT, wherever) don’t have to sacrfice for their state of the art facilities, equipment, uniforms, etc…These “non-revenue” athletes choose to sleep 3 to a room in cheap hotels so they can afford competitive swim suits. They should be applauded, not accused of cheating. Shame on you, TM. Shame on you, AJC headline writers. Shame on you. I’d threaten to cancel my paper subscription, but I did that years ago.
Do we only support our players if they decide to stay four years? Asher Allen is a fine young man, and an example of class. He will represent UGA well in the pro’s. I wish him the best, and while I would have loved to have seen him on our defense next year, am not going to whine about him moving to the next level, if that is what he feels is best. I do believe that he has the class to come back and finish his degree, because that is the type of person he is. Good Luck Mr. Allen!
wow, this article makes you sound so incredibility ignorant. i wish i could send you videos of all the people who laughed after reading this article. nice job terence moore.
Not sure I remember Asher returning a whole lot of punts, at least last year. The only reason Logan Grey was the return guy was when we needed someone with good hands to catch the ball when we would be backed up deep in our territory. Almost all of his returns were for fair catches. Richt even said so…
As far as Asher turning pro…
I don’t think he will get drafted as high as he hopes, but I think he will be a great find in the 3rd or 4th round a couple of years from now when he develops a bit.
The real story here is the decades of deception that Terrence had us believe. All this time I thought he was an African-American middle aged male. But now we all know he is actually a Japanese teenage girl.
Japanese because of this – http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7434159.stm
Teenage because of his/her writing skill
Girl because of his/her total lack of knowledge of sports and only writing about how he/she feels
When are you fools going to understand. Money talks and you know what walks. Kids that play at UGA are groomed for the pros. Why else would someone go over to Athens? This kid will go in the late first to second and make plenty of money. More than a tech grad sees in a lifetime. Can’t blame the kid because school will always be an option. Good luck Allen.
Stop hating techies, dawg fans wish tech the best except when playing the bees, where tech just hates georgia in all aspects of life. What a shame.
The smartest thing Knight suggested was firing Woodson, and it also happens to be the thing he lost his job over. Anyone who says the Hawks are winning because of Woodson and not in SPITE of Woodson is failing to see the forest for the trees.
Billy Knight doesn’t deserve recognition, gratitude or anything close to something as absurd as an apology, Moore. What did Knight ever win as GM of the Hawks? That’s right, nothing.
I can’t believe you’re actually giving Knight credit. The Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Brandon Roy bloopers can’t ever be forgiven nor forgotten. Marvin Williams is a super-bust! There will never be a justifiable reason as to why you would take a kid that was the 6th man coming off the bench as a freshman in college, as the #2 pick in the draft.
Yeah, he brought in Joe Johnson. And yeah, he finally guessed right on Al Horford. But just because the upstart Hawks happened to make the playoffs last year with a sub-500 record and take the Celtics to the brink of elimination, doesn’t make Knight’s tenure a success. That bum didn’t put in place a winning product.
Passing up Chris Paul and Deron Williams was just plain stupid on Bill Knight behalf. I also think signing Speedy Claxton and drafting Sheldon Williams was idiotic. One more think trading Rasheed Wallace was also dumb.
If Knight had lighter skin pigmentation, this column would be blasting him, not praising him. W/5 Top 10 picks in his tenure, he managed to get ONE right. This team still has many issues and limitations that wera caused by Knight.
This article clearly demonstrates that intelligence and fairness are NOT a requirement for employment at the ajc. You are an idiot and clearly nothing about swimming!
Several points:
These suits are now commonly seen whenever elite swimmers compete in important meets – even at the high school level – don’t think you knew that Moore – bet you don’t attend many high school meets.
These suits are often loaned to the swimmers, especially those that qualify for finals – as would any well run company, Speedo is enjoying good press coverage from these suits, and often engages in “loss leaders” as a trade-off for such coverage.
The swimmers that compete train very hard for months to earn the right to compete at these championships, so these achievements can not be attributed solely to the benefits, if any, that may be derived by these suits. If you’ve paid any attention to the sport, you would know that record times have been steadily falling in the sport for some time, long before Speedo introduced these suits, and the times of elite swimmers as a group has been dropping even more dramatically – but Moore you certainly do not that!
Since when is it “cheating” to use equipment that is perfectly legal? Is it also cheating to work harder and be better coached? Is it cheating to make sacrifices in one area to obtain benefits in another? Or is it cheating simply if someone does something with which you don’t agree? Is it cheating the public when a person that has the eyes of the public impugns the character of well trained, conditioned and coached athletes simply because he doesn’t like what they do, or perhaps resents their success.
But perhaps worst of all, is when the writer abuses his trade and suggests an analogy that just isn’t there! To even to suggest that the use of a piece of equipment is entirely legal somehow akin to an illegal activity like doping is wrong-headed, stupid, outrageous and slanderous.
You owe everyone in the sport of swimming an apology! And especially any swimmer that has competed using these new suits, including the Georgia Tech coaches and swimmers.
You should be especially ashamed, and should the management at the ajc for allowing such a stupid and vacuous opinion to appear in print.
Billy Knight’s mistakes weren’t about who he acquired — they were about who he DIDN’T acquire. In that sense, he is a better GM than the likes of Chris Wallace and Larry Harris who spend big money and high picks to bring in D-League caliber players. Other than Shelden (for whom Billy reached to fill a need at center, something I’m sure even Billy will admit to some day) every player he signed or drafted was an NBA-caliber talent who either has had success here or somewhere else. And he deserves a lot of credit for getting a player like Josh Smith outside the lottery. But having said all that, there’s no excuse for passing on the likes of Chris Paul and Brandon Roy, who would both be the best player on the Hawks’ roster right now. I do think it’s possible he’s learned from his mistakes and could be a good GM for another team at some point.
One of your more thought provoking emails, Mr. Moore. I still remember how we, those of us who are actually fans of the Hawks, rallied behind Billy when he refused to shake hands with the devil in court. The point guard situation will always remain a mystery to me. Yes, he eventually got it right with Bibby, but Speedy Claxton, Speedy Claxton…… The Hawks’ version of Nick Esasky or Bruce Sutter. But I have to admit, I was more in favor of keeping Knight and losing Woodson. I wonder where we would be if things would have remained in tact. Only time will tell for Sund hasn’t really done much. We lost one to Greece, but picked up two nice pieces. Billy just couldn’t do right with guards, what was he 2 for 8, Joe and Mike being the 2. Anyway, nice article.
Stupid article — He set us years back while he was here, sure he got some good players but look how high he picked every year. Who did he draft that was better than those picked ahead of him? Josh Smith that’s it, Chilldress over Deng an Gordon, Marvin over Paul & Derin, Shelden over Roy. Of course he drafted Horford which Im Glad but is he better than those drafted ahead of him? Durant no, Oden the jurys still out.
An Joe Johnston what is he about maybe in the top 30 players playing now? for that 2 first round picks a player Diaw who is doing alright now and 20 million first yr Great pickup Billy you are the best…………
one other thing that was not mentioned here, knight gave phoenix 2 1st rnd draft picks for JJ. jj could have been had for less, because phoenix was bluffin’. jj has been a welcomed addition to the hawks, but no one in the league would give 2 1st round picks for him.
also on pickin’ sheldon at the 10 spot, how in the BLAZES did word get out that the hawks were takin’ sheldon with the 10th pick. i was astonished at this. i though that this was a joke back in ‘06. a week before the draft word had gotten out that the hawks were selectin’ sheldon with the 10th pick. atl was the laughin’ stock of the league for this.
This is actually quite debateable about Billy Knight. Yeah he made his mistakes but what GM has not. Colangelo when he was with the Suns before going to the Raptors passed on Rudy Fernandez, Luol Deng, Nate Robinson and Marcin Gortat. After Colangelo left Steve Kerr made the Shaq trade and passed on Rajon Rondo. I think Knight’s biggest mistake was Shelden Williams. The Hawks just got tricked by signing Claxton he was playing great the year before in New Orleans. This team always wanted a veteran point.
The eventually get a veteran point in Mike Bibby now they are talking playoff seeding 2 years in a row.
Billy King formerly of 76ers is another GM that got a bad deal as well. He built that prior to the Brand deal which was crap.
Marvin is no where near a bust like Shelden or Salim Stoudamire. 1 bad out of 6 or 7 picks is not bad.
Knight drafted and acquired
Royal Ivey (76ers)
Donta Smith (out the league)
Boris Diaw (Bobcats)
Childress (Better than Deng)
JSmoove (future all-star)
Horford (future all-star)
Law (decent just needs minutes to shine)
Solomon Jones great backup
Mike Bibby trade
Zaza Pachulia free agent
Joe Johnson trade
Salim Stoudamire (bad attitude or something could not stick with the Spurs either)
Billy Knight made calculated risks that didn’t always work out and made some choices that were questionable, but you could understand the argument. I think the biggest factor holding this team back is Mike Woodson. His inability to properly develop young players(which is pretty much all he got to work with) is alarming. Salim Stoudamire could have been a serviceable shooting guard with proper development, now we see the same thing happening with Acie Law. Shelden Williams and Speedy Claxton, notwithstanding, Knight actually made some reasonable choices for this team. The most important probably being the one that didn’t happen…firing Woodson
I’ve got to side with birddawg. Say what you want about what Woodson did and didn’t do, and trust me, there’s a lot to be said either way, but the one thing that can’t be denied is the fact that he took a franchise that was in ashes, tore down the roster, and built a team that’s playoff worthy, and is only going to get better if kept together. No one can argue that, and it’s liar who’d try.
All of you people who don’t agree with Terrence Moore, fine! But your comments are of mean spirit, and I wonder if there is a little racism in those comments. If it is not racism, where does all of this anger come from? Why? We all like sports why can’t we enjoy talking about it instead tearing one another down. Okay, now you know my true colors. I claim Christ as my savior and all of you as brothers and sisters. Let love have the final word not hate.
Billy Knight chose Marvin Williams and Shelden Williams. Lets see who we left on the table. Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Donte Ellis, Andrew Bynum, Lamarcus Alderidge, Brandon Roy.
After all this, Knight paid [5] million a yaer for the point guard who was not needed in New Orleans after Chris Paul arrived, [Speedy Claxton]
Marvin Williams will be traded when his contarct runs out. He’s like a bad taste in your mouth, no offense to him and his lack of skills.
Wow! No mention of ridiculous draft picks in the article?! As others have said, his mistakes in the draft were unforgivable. Then, he was the one who picked Woodson, a coach who only plays veterans, in the first place to coach a team full of young guys to develop. Look at what happened with Salim and Acie. Lucky for Paul and Deron that they weren’t drafted by us, they probably would have played behind Tyrone Lue for their first two years!
Oh by the way Terrance you should be shackled to these two fools.How on earth can you take up for either one of these Morons neither one should be left alone with a sharp object.Do you even proof read any of this crap you write.
Finally someone states the obvious. This is Billy Knight’s team, with all due respect for Sund acquisitions Murray and Evans. And don’t forget, Smith was the 17th pick in the draft, Zaza Pachulia was taken off the scrap heap, we gave up nothing for Mike Bibby, and while Diaw did develop the two first rounders for JJ were mid to late round picks. Also, Knight wisely passed on Eddie Curry and Erick Dampier when the Hawks needed a big man and they both were seeking 60 million deals.
And by the way, Terance DID mention the Chris Paul oversight at length.
It must boil the blood of the guy with the pigmentation comment to see blacks in management & coaching, much less in journalism. I’m white, just to lay the cards on the table.
Here’s the sticking point: this debate is only about race if that’s the only axe you have to grind. What it’s really about is how well two men have done their jobs: if you hate Atlanta’s coach, then you gotta love the former GM; If you loved the GM, then you gotta hate the coach.
My money is somewhere in the middle on both.
Knight needs two or three big asterisks by his name.
* The pick of Shelden Williams stunk from the get-go, and smelled worse once the sun came up.
* But The Speedy Claxton deal hurt us worse, and hinted at someone not doing their homework.
Some folks would like Marvin Williams included as an asterisk. Jury is still out on whether he’ll be remembered as Billy’s V8 moment. (*Whack*!! I coulda had a point guard!)
But get this: there’s TIME for the jury to be out, folks. Marvin won’t turn 23 until after the NBA finals, yet he blew up for 31 points 2 nights ago against the Nuggets. He’s been solid all year, plays lock-down defense & now is stepping up offensively when his number is called.)
No one can deny that Billy knocked a homer with Josh Smith, Josh Childress & Al Horford. Some may claim that Horford was the obvious choice. But no one predicted he would do as well as he has done, with no sign of a sophomore jinx. He probably had a hand in the Dickau debacle, but Billy earns bonus points for recognizing this early and unloading him quickly.
But the litmus test of a manager is his willingness to pull the trigger on a make-or-break deal. And here’s the bottom line: Billy Knight put his career on the line for the sake of the Hawks future by refusing to shake hands with the devil. None of our current renaissance would have taken place without Joe Johnson, who was not even a starter in Phoenix. You cannot have the current talent core of the Hawks unless you are willing to swing for the fences. Billy swung and knocked it out of the park.
Woody, on the other hand, kept this core together better than anyone else, and has kept them playing sound basketball even when his stars are in the training room. I question his handling of Diaw & of Acie Law III, but no one can question his “iron fist in a velvet glove” touch with the volatile Josh Smith and his respectful development of Joe Johnson into a perennial All-Star. An offensive wizard he will never be. But he took a team without a point guard and made defense their cornerstone until Bibby arrived. And that’s no small feat on a team so dominated by youth that their predominant training room medication could be Ritalin.
Mike Woodson is the worst coach I have ever seen in any of the Big 3 professional sports. The Hawks are 2-3 years behind where they should be right now and it is all due to Woodson.
I will say this–IF…the Hawks hadn’t needed a PG, I can understand taking a chance on Marvin Williams. However, that was the one spot, at the time, the Hawks were sorely lacking at and it is inexcusable Woodson and Knight didn’t take Chris Paul.
I’ve been saying **BK: GM of the Year** for the past three seasons. No one would listen, but now its undeniable. If you’ve been around long enough to know Snake Kasten and Pete Sukscock, you know how horribe we were in the front office. Needless to say, Silent Suhnd will reap all the praise for the ultimate accomplishments of this team, but truth be told, this is still Billy’s team.
The never-ending criticism of Marvin over Paul/Deron is losing ears. As Marvin finds his niche and puts up more 30 pt games, nobody will want to hear it. The real draft travesty was Shelden over Roy, but most are too dense to see that.
Anyway, the coaching situation is a pickle. Woody deserves to both be fired and to keep his job. You cant fire a guy who improves his win total by 50-100% every year. He has literally gone from 13 wins to 26 to 37 to probably 50 this year. That’s progress – problem is … he shoud’ve won more. His refusal to play the bench, hinders their development and thus when you need them, they aren’t ready. Look to AC Law as the latest example. A surefire lottery pick that has regressed so much that he doesn’t even look like a DL starter.
The GM’s most important job is hiring the right coach. You can miss on players in the draft but you can’t continue to hire average (at best) coaches. The reason BK doesn’t have a job is because his record of hiring quality coaches is horrific. There is no doubt that with the right coach, the Hawks would be in a conference finals before Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Iguodala, Deng, Brandon Roy or any other “we shoulda drafted…” player you can name. But alas, we have Woody and a dysfunctional ownership group.
Isn’t hindsight wonderful? Was BK perfect? Of course not. When it comes to making trades, free agent signings and the draft, even the best GMs in the league make mistakes.
Remember, Marvin Williams was drafted to replace Al Harrington. The concept of wanting a veteran PG to lead a young roster is sound and understandable. However, hindsight has shown us that choosing Claxton didn’t pan out as hoped for. More about Marvin Williams in a moment.
When he was here, you guys couldn’t wait to get rid of Diaw and were glad when he was included in the Joe Johnson deal. Thanks to hindsight, you want to negatively criticize BK for that decision.
Drafting Shelden Williams didn’t pan out but BK took the best available big man when it was his turn to draft and Bargnani and Aldridge were gone. In hindsight, everyone says Roy should have been drafted. But we know Roy would have received very little playing time because of the number of swingmen on the roster and the calls for the drafting of a big man would have been deafening.
Here’s a different take on the “should have drafted Chris Paul or Deron Williams instead of Marvin Williams” debate. If having a great PG is a requisite to winning a championship, why haven’t John Stockton, Mark Jackson, Terry Porter, Derek Harper, Gary Payton, Kevin Johnson, Mark Price, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash or Baron Davis, each an all-star and/or considered among the best PGs ever to play the game, ever won a championship?
Here’s another way to think about it: Chauncey Billups and Tony Parker are the only All-Star PGs to win a championship in the last twenty years! Last year’s Celtics (Rajon Rondo) didn’t have one. Neither did Olajuwon’s Rockets (Kenny Smith), Robinson and Duncan’s Spurs (Avery Johnson) Shaq and Kobe’s Lakers (Derek Fisher- very underrated but not great or an all-star), Shaq and Wade’s Heat (Jason Williams) or Jordan’s Bulls (Ron Harper). So if the idea is to win a championship, I don’t understand how passing on Paul or D. Williams was such a major mistake.
Was BK perfect? No. Could he have been better? Certainly. Was he better than his predecessor? Resoundingly yes. Here’s hoping that the actions GM Rick Sund (who has a less than perfect record over his 25 year NBA history) don’t cause us to think about that old adage of not missing your water until your well runs dry.
I’ve never seen a city so proud of almost winning a first round series. If thats your measuring bar then it’s a clear indication that the franchise is a pile.
“The same coach who later helped the Hawks nearly shock the eventual world champion Boston Celtics in the first round of the playoffs last season.”
Billy Knight’s draft picks: 3rd & 11th in 2007, 5th 2006, 2nd 2005, 6th & 17th 2004, 21t 2003. 7 picks in the top 21, 5 in the lottery, and he is getting credit for having a descent team 6 seasons later??? 95% of all GMs could do the same thing!
Why all the hating of Marvin Williams? He has improved significantly this season. Not to excuse passing on Paul, but Marvin’s not terrible.
People were excited about almost winning a playoff series because we’ve hardly sniffed the playoffs in a decade.
Geez, at least Paul Hewitt won something to raise the expectations. Woodson has steadily improved the team since he’s been here, but that’s not enough. Since win is less than 50 wins a failure for the Atlanta Hawks?!?! Baby steps…Why would anyone want to coach basketball in this town?
Its so amusing looking at these comments,lol you can tell when someone is talking out the side of their neck about something they have no idea about….1st off its well known that billy knight made some horrible decisions with shelden williams being takin over brandon roy as the clear worst decision he made but at the end of the day the team we have out their today who is currently the 4th seed and took the eventual nba champs boston celtics to 7 games last year well he should also get a lot more credit than deserved…but what I find amazing is the people who critize marvin williams….Let me tell you clueless people something marvin williams will be a stud in this league 4 a long time,a future all star talent is marvin williams…So we you people talk about marvin being a bust it clearly shows you people have no idea about the game of basketball because marvin williams is a future all star and is going to be in this league doing big things for a long time,mark that down!!!!!
Oh yeah
If rick sund trades marvin this offseason,the atlanta hawks will regret yet another decision and be remember as the one who got away..
The day the news broke that BK had tried to have Woodson replaced on numerous occasions, my opinion of him as a GM doubled. If he ever gets another GM gig, he might want to rethink the whole “just hire a friend to coach the team” plan. Didn’t really pan out this time.
We’ll see how good of a GM Sund is this summer after his “observational period” is up. Hopefully he’s been observing the guy standing by the bench as much as he’s been observing the guys running on the court.
Well said Jakejay. All the Hawks need to do is keep the young nucleus they have. With limited resources, I am afraid that Johnson,Smith and Horford are not going to be in Atlanta.
Josh Childress over Luol Deng and Andre Iguodala.
Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams.
Shelden Willaims over Brandon Roy and Rajon Rondo.
That’s 3 top 5 picks in a row – with one average starter to show for it. Inexcusable. I’m not even going to get into the fact that he got FLEECED for those two draft picks by Phoenix in the Joe Johnson trade.
STUPID ARTICLE, Terrence. If someone competent was making those picks, we’d be competing for an NBA championship this year, and for many years to come. I’m supposed to be happy that instead of competing for the title, we are simply going to make the playoffs???
Billy Knight is the worst talent evaluator in recent memory. You think it’s a coincidence that he’s unemployed right now?
They may be better than we thought, but that is because of very low expectations.
The current squad is a poorly constructed collection of very good talent. How can a total rebuild result in so many pieces that do not fit. Especially a head coach that does not even closely fit the needs of our outstanding athletes.
Today, A nice young woman came to my door. She proceeded to ask my roommates and I if we would like a Subscription to the AJC… I politely slammed the door in her face… reopened it and explained how I wished she had been Terrance Moore apologizing about how uninformed and unintelligent he is and how he can’t help that he’s a lazy, racist, ignorant [I'm not intelligent enough to put a suitable word here]. Then slammed the door again.
More than a few folks don’t want Mike Woodson as Hawks coach. In my opinion, more than a few folks are wrong.
Here’s my point: What other coach could have done more than Woodson for the past five seasons, especially given all the issues he has faced? Warring owners. No point guard until the acquisition of Bibby in the spring of 2008. Death of a player before the start of a season. Constantly changing roster early during is tenure. Extremely young roster for much of his tenure.
Even if Phil Jackson were available — which he wasn’t — the results wouldn’t have been much better.
That is, if at all.
The Gearons (among the Hawks eight owners) have it about right: The demanding but fair Woodson had the perfect temperment for the job in the early part of his Hawks stint, and he has grown into a pretty good coach since then.
Terrence – I have no problem with Woodson. I don’t think he’s some genius (particularly on the offensive end of the floor), but I think he’s done a good enough job given the pathetic mismatched rosters he’s had in the past. My problems are with Billy Knight for constructing those rosters. He seemed to have some ridiculous notion that you could trot out a roster of athletic 6′8 interchangeable parts and be the reincarnation of the Showtime Lakers (problem is, we don’t have Magic Johnson as one of those parts). His draft mistakes destroyed the future of this franchise. We would be among the league’s elite if he could evaluate talent. Childress over Deng and Iguodala? Marvin over Paul and Williams? Shelden over Roy and Rondo (or a sack of potatoes for that matter)? How can you defend this man’s incompetency??? I could have built a team at least as good as this with 4 consecutive top 5 lottery picks! We should be a contender for the championship for years to come, and instead we have a team that will never get out of the second round. Defend that, please.
WHAT ATLANTA FANS DON’T UNDERSTAND IS THAT AS A GM YOU CAN’T HIT A HOMERUN WITH EVERY SINGLE PICK. YOU WIN SOME AND YOU LOSE SOME, REMEMBER JOSH SMITH LOOKS LIKE A STEAL NOW. IF YOU LOOK AT IT FROM A BUSINESS STANDPOINT, AS FAR AS I KNOW THE HAWKS AREN’T ONE OF THOSE TEAMS THAT IS STRUGGLING WITH MONEY. RICK SUND EVEN SAID THAT SITUATION KNIGHT LEFT HIM IN IS LOOKING REALLY GOOD. SPEEDY IS COMING OF THE BOOKS SOON, AND HE SAID THE HAWKS HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO SIGN BIBBY, MARVIN, JOE AND STILL GET ANOTHER FREE AGENT NEXT YEAR. GOT TO SAY KNIGHT DID A PRETTY GOOD JOB.
tm, you are way out of your mind sir. billy knight was one of the worse gm to have such a position. you are right about one thing though, he did draft talentive athletes, but the problem with that is that he didn’t draft court smart talentive athletes. let me use josh smith as an example.
he is a outstanding rebounder and defender, but he’s always trying to do more than what his ability will permit him to do, like shooting the ball from the 3 point line. how is he going to grab rebounds if he’s taking shots that far out? that’s not a very smart basketball player. now dennis rodman was a smart basketball player because he recognized early in his career that rebounding and defending was his strength and he didn’t try to do more than that unless he made an easy dump near the basket.
marvin william is a very humble young man, but he should be the sixth man to come off the bench the way roy williams used him at north carolina. it seems to me that billy knight should had known something wasn’t right about that picture. everytime marvin touch the basketball i cringe because i don’t feel comfortable with his shot selections and when he’s moving with ball.
One way to measure a GM is to compare with others who have held the same job. While it’s a bit early to put a final grade on Sund, BK clearly did much better than Babcock.
Run down that draft history and you will see a river of guys that were bad picks. I find it amusing that Babcock’s best draft year was the one where he traded the picks away to the Grizzlies (Pau Gasol) and Pacers (Jamaal Tinsley)
Some of BK’s flawed picks are related to his flawed coach. Diaw was better once he left Atlanta. I suspect the same will be true for AC Law & Marvin Williams. Royal Ivey has proved to be more of a contributor outside of Atlanta than he was here for that token starting role he had.
I think BK had a vision for the team that included some level of interchangeable players with an uptempo style. Woody has none of that uptempo stuff unless he is forced into it. Even when it works well, he moves away from it.
BK definitely wasn’t perfect, but he was better than most around Atlanta would acknowledge.
What was the point of this article? Knight made good picks? He made bad ones too. He passed on three current all-stars for Marvin and Sheldon. It took him HOW LONG to get us a good point guard. As it is, we are only “renting” THAT one.
Or was the point that Woodson is a good coach in spite of Knight? Yeah he has the perfect temperament alright. Just the wrong approach altogether. He rides veterans while underdeveloping young players. No, he did not develop Marvin, Josh ,and the others. He didn’t have anyone else to play, that is why they played so much.
So which was the intent here, to promote Woodson and his career .360 percentage or Knight and his picks? Or are you trying to do both?
I’ll say this though: Knight was very good at picking forwards (except once).
Woodson is very good at preaching defense and rebounding. And if the Hawks get into the second round of the playoffs, he has a job for the next several years. It would be very hard to argue otherwise, as results speak for themselves. Then again, you never know. General managers always like to have “their” guy in the saddle. I’ve seen coaches with career winning records get fired, even after winning seasons.
manny t, you got to be a very young dude or just out of your mind to say bk done a much better job than badcock. how many times did this team make the playoffs under bk. i will tell u? ZERO!! this team was a sub .500 team every year under bk. babcock may have made some bad trades and questionable draft picks at times, but he at least got the hawks into the playoffs with those people he drafted and trade for. by the way, are you related to bk?
Except for the fact that he totally and completely blew it on Chris Paul losing a generational player and an absolute NEED that he only addressed at the bitter end (Point Guard) in order to build a team of power fowards.
SHelden Williams should send half his livelyhood to Dick Vitale.
Knight did get some good talent… at Foward, and he brought in Joe Johnson… unfortunatly it’s a guard driven league predominantly and the good teams all have great point guards or at least a superstar guard that can dish. Joe Johnson is simply not Kobe or Dwayne Wade even though he is very good… put him with CHRIS PAUL….. yeah EVERYONE Is better.
It’s not Marvin Williams fault, but they had fowards… they needed a point guard, and it was only when they got Mike Bibby that they really started turning around.
as tough a job as GM is though, Billy did have a vision and stuck to it. THere is probably something to say for that, Marvin is finally playing much more like what people thought his potential was….. I just wish Darren Williams or Chris Paul or some young good point guard had been brought in with all the good talent at foward.
Billy Knght may have made a mistake by not taking a point guard. However, the players he did select or doing just fine. The problem with the Hawks is coaching. Woodson does not know how to use or coach Josh Smith yes Smith has some blame for his play at times but I say 95% of it is lack of coaching and guidance. He should never take 17 foot jump shots or lead the fast break with the ball. In fact the Hawks are the only team that lead fast breaks with thier Centers and Power forwards. No wonder they lead the league in turn overs.
What does Furcal not coming have to do with getting Peavy? The Braves had already offered Escobar to San Diego but Peavy wouldn’t approve the trade. What is the supposed point of this column?
ArkyTech: FYI…rumor has it that Peavy might not have approved the trade. Anything beyond that is pure speculation. He never actually disapproved.
I’m starting to think some of you disagree with T. Moore just for the sake of doing so. No, I don’t agree with all of his views (there’s no journalist with whom I always agree anyway.) Regarding this article, there are indeed tons of Braves fans (myself included) that can’t help but to wonder what might have been. That doesn’t mean we’re not moving on…well the true fans at least…
The picture for Mr. Moore’s story featured Smoltz, Griffey, and Furcal. You’re talking about 3 players who are a combined 112 years old, coming off subpar or injury-plagued seasons. I don’t think anyone needs to be upset about not having them on the 2009 Braves.
Better yet, if you all are so much better at writing columns…how about you apply for a journalist job with the AJC? What’s the matter, not qualified?
Columnists are entitled to opinions & views…get over it. Exercise your right to not read the articles. Exercise your right to not your waste time commenting on someone’s work which you claim to hate. Geez, I wish there was this same distaste for the opinionated poo poo that Jeff Schultz puts out…
And, readers are entitled to expressing their opinions, as well – don’t forget that! You’re doing it right there…
The article has nothing to it other than a recap of everything that everyone has already pointed out a hundred times – form Dave O’Brien to Joe Schmoe on the street…
Just like fire terence moore wrote: it must be a slow day for him….
Why does anyone care about the offseason anymore? We’re in the midst of Spring Training, the WBC is starting, and we get some bitter column from a tired old columnist. Next week I’m sure we’ll be hearing about how Manny Ramirez signed with the Braves says a source who may or may not be his pet cat.
And Smoltz? You wrote this column two weeks ago and nobody cared for it.
Good lord, please write something worthwhile more than a couple of times a year! The Braves are headed in the right direction and if a couple of things go right, they’re back in the playoff hunt. Just as if they had signed an injury plagued Jones, Hampton, Griffey, Furcal, and Smoltz. GO BRAVES!!!
First of all, I love John Smoltz as much as anybody that grew up a Braves fan, but the fact of the matter is that the guy just simply has not finished a season healthy in 4 or 5 years. If he got mad because the Braves were doing their due diligence and making sure he is actually healthy for once, then that’s his prerogative and you can’t fault Braves management for that. Tommy G went about this in a much more professional manner than Smoltz did. I also predict that by the time September rolls around, Glavine will have more Ws than Smoltzie will!
I don’t think that anyone else in the galaxy (other than the Astros, of course) is going to be shedding any crocodile tears over Mike Hampton returning to Houston to pitch.
More than any other player that I can remember, Mike Hampton maintains a constant state of evolving infirmiry.
Dude, shut up man! Get over it! We are a better team. I know you have nothing else to talk about. I say good riddance to all those people who left and a welcome to Atlanta to those who decided to come.
why do you even attempt to write? You once again just repeat what everyone knows, but you manage to sound like a complete idiot. I would say don’t quit your day job because everything you write is worthless, but wait somehow this is your day job.
It’s no wonder newspapers are a fading institution….I don’t know what’s sadder. That you get paid for drivel like that or that I actually read it after knowing better than to click on your column…
1. What outlandish thing can I say (e.g., “GT swimmers cheat because they wear Speedo suits.”)?
2. How stupidly can I say it (e.g., “The Braves just had to get Peavy, who also strikes folks out, and he throws a lot of innings.”)?
His material wouldn’t make it past most middle school newspaper editors. That he writes for the AJC completely tarnishes the reputation of that publication, and undermines the prestige of his capable colleagues Bradley and Bisher (I’m no Schultz fan).
welikebaseball2, to answer your question, I find Terence’s boundless display of ignorance entertaining. Enlightening? No. Entertaining? In a very strange way, yes.
Of course Terrance Moore would put up a column like this. Hey, let’s focus on what could have been. Here is an idea, we have a pretty good team. We might make it to the playoffs. Why don’t you talk about that? Why this paper still employs you is beyond me. Quote Terrance, “Should we bring back Vick? How about MeAngelo?” I bet you want us to sign Bonds to, idiot.
What might have been? If we signed Burnett, then we wouldn’t have signed Lowe. You trade Burnett for Lowe. I would not do that. Smoltz, of course everyone would have liked to have back. But, Frank Wren himself said that we couldn’t sign him and wait til June for him to pitch. Boston can, and are. Furcal never wanted to play second. If we signed him, then we would have Furcal at second and an unhappy Kelly johnson in left field. No Garret Anderson, and maybe no Kawakami because of financial constraints. More speed, less power. Unhappy Furcal and unhappy Johnson. If Andruw turns himself around and we need help scoring runs, then I can see us trading for him. I think him going to Texas is a good thing, because he gets to work with the hitting coach out there. Griffey would have been nice for attendance purposes and leadership. But, Anderson offers that same leadership. Less power, more situational hitting and for higher average. I will take that. What do we learn? The moves we missed were a blessing in disguise. We are better with Lowe, Kawakami, Vazquez and Anderson. More reliable. Come up with something else, probably about racism.
Wow, my comments got deleted. Anyways, quit crying. We are better with the moves we made then we would have been if we had gotten these people. Except for Smoltz, but that was his decision. He wants wo win, and at the time he had a better chance of doing that in Boston. Probably still does.
Wasn’t the Peavy deal held up on Hanson, not Escobar? At least, that’s what I remember seeing reported. The Padres wouldn’t do a deal unless Hanson was included somehow.
Again, TM stop writing about the braves. Look we could have had alot of talent but that would have meant that we were going to give up alot of prospects. Im sorry Id rather have the prospects than have guys that will probably be injured or out of here by the end of the year. Congrats Braves Organization, Id have to say you made the perfect decisions for this ball club.
TM: You should stick with writing about the hawks or falcons or do some more drop ins on PTI. You show time and again that you don’t know anything about baseball. The AJC has some good braves reporters in Bowman and DOB…we certainly dont need you and your ever-present negativity.
Tsis is a bunch of old old old old stuff. We are playing spring games with the chosen team. For every player the Braves did not sign there are pluses.Play Ball!
You’re right, the readers are entitled to their reactions. I never said anything to the contrary. I just think that it’s a little contradictory to say “you’re an awful writer! stop wasting our time!” Yet you guys, knowing how much you despise his writing, spend so much of your time on the blog critiquing his work. If he’s so off in his views, let us know your brilliant/refreshing/relevant take on the subject.
Don’t mean to be defensive about T. Moore’s work. Like I said, I don’t agree with all his views…but you guys are going a bit overboard with the bashing. If you don’t like his writing…stop reading it! I know you have the right to voice your opinion but why would you spend so much energy tearing down someone you don’t deem worthy of you reading time?
The Boston Red Sox acquired John Smoltz for his brilliant postseason record as much as anything else. Whatever they get from Smoltz during the regular season is gravy.
Say what TM… are you paying attention at all? Do you just make this stuff up? Is there an editor at the AJC that has any supervision over what you write? I should have known better than to read this column because what you write just flat ticks me off. The Braves have done an admirable job this summer and you can’t see it because of the blinders you always wear.
The problem with you “Terry”, is that you never stand up for what you say and are not available for comment without compensation. On this message board your comment about Andruw leading the Grapefruit league in strikeouts was factually wrong and you can’t even stand up for your inaccuracy and give that “blogger” credit. That has as much to do with the problem people have with you as anything.
The AJC must need you, ESPN…they hired Michael Irvin and the 2 Live Stews. The Stews are not collectively as bright as you, but may actually do more research.
Get some balls and respond to Rick in Dallas with a thanks/mention for the correction.
Everyone of the players you mentioned suffered from injuries last year OR is an injury waiting to happen. No thanks, we’ve been down that road. Let Griffey DH for the Mariners, Smoltz pitch for the sox and Furcal do whatever he does for LA, etc. At some point in time in the season they will all be on the DL.
Does anyone else that has read TM’s recent work feel like they’re watching a train wreck?
As to the actual content of the column, there is nothing in it that hasn’t been hashed out in the blogs both at the AJC and elsewhere over the past few week. I think we ended up with a pretty decent offseason, and I’m lookikng forward to reading columns about the team we have – not the one we could have had.
The past is past,looking forward I see the Braves contending for the division this year,next year I see them winning the division and possibly the National League pennant…Young pitching and defense and timely hitting is the key this year….How long before they bring up Hanson?Go Braves
T. Moore, where did Smoltz get that postseason reputation? You have expressed before that the Braves owe Smoltz because Smoltz has “given” so much. Look what he got! If it was not for the Braves, he would not even have had the opportunities that he has had in the postseason. There is so much more that Smoltz “got” from the Braves, but I won’t mention it. All you have to do is look a little deeper. So again I ask, what does he owe the Braves? But you even mentioned that the reason the Sox want him is because of his postseason reputation. So it seems that he even owes them the opportunity to play for the Sox. Hmmm.
Old age and treachery wins over youth and vigor in most instances, but not baseball. The good times will shortly roll for the Braves and the old boys will bask in their millions and memories.
Terrence,once again you have broken up the doldrums of the day by writing an article that entices the local yahoos to attack you with their dumb ass remarks. Some guy even suggests that the Braves are set to win the division and the NL pennant. Wow!!!! Keep up the good work.
So we didn’t get a bunch of injury prone players, re: Smoltz, Hampton, Griffey, how is that going to hurt the team? I look forward to a great season with some “much younger” and talented players. Go Braves!!!!!
Peavy is a great but thank god we did not bring back the sloth Andryw Jones and the gutless mike Hampton.
Plus Escobar is th eonly everyday player that can actually play baseball.
“All of that said, what tragedy involving a sport personality affected you the most, and why was it so difficult to handle?”
None, Terence, as I was taught at a young age to never practice idolatry. Further, even though few enjoy sports more than me, I keep it all in perspective and find it laughable that men with double digit IQ’s, earrings, and tattoos are worship such that we sit in tiny little seat at stadiums or arenas while they make 5, 10, even 25 million dollars a year to play with a ball. And, Terence, we all know you’re not the sharpest pen on paper by writing “This makes it worse: Sports figures are involved.” I can assure you, goober, that for the loved ones of those who die tragically it could not be any “worse” to those loved ones left behind regardless of whether they play ball or not.
It’s truly amazing how consistently wrong you are. It’s the fame, Terence, whether it comes from sports or somewhere else. It’s the fame, not the sports. Get it? Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, James Dean, Richie Valens, the Big Bopper and Buddy Holly. The more famous, the more attention. These guys, not so famous, the attention is fading already. It’s harsh, but factual. So, spare us your golly-geez-sports-tragedies-grab-us-more-than-others wrongness. It’s the fame, Teri, no matter from where it flows.
I hate to say this but your article may have been the most tastless sports story I have ever read. It is hard for me to believe someone did not stop this from ever appearing in print. What is my number one sport ’s story tragedy……..wow…………
It’s funny that everybody is avoiding the truth here. Fractional Frank, you’re right, but Moore was looking at it from this one perspective. Since this is a sports column then lets look at it from this perspective. Lord forbid that any one of us are in the same situation, but if we were in this situation, yeah it would be on the news but for how long?
While I don’t always agree with T. Moore and I could care less about what he usually says, he is telling the hard truths. It’s like people in this country think we are always so compassionate, and this is not always true. It may seem harsh but he is making a point that really does make sense. It doesn’t change the fact about what happen and how the family feels, and those watching, but it this were to happen to the average Joe, it would not be espn, nfl.com, foxsports.com, and it wouldn’t even be on Channel 2 that long or Fox 5 or any other mainstream news station.
I don’t worship anyone on earth but I do find this story tragic. These were young men who were lost in the prime of their life. I hope they find them alive but it appears that won’t happen. May God be with their families. I think that senseless deaths of young people always tugs on the hearts of people of compassion. I think to try to denigrate those who died is unconscionable.
Amazing how much hate is thrown towards Moore, yet all of you continue to read his work. He has been in this business for a long time, so he must be doing something right. I think this article is spot on. How many times do we click through the TV channels, see some John Doe thats been killed, and continue to channel surf without thinking twice about John Doe. Yet, two NFL players get lost at sea and its breaking news for a week. Don’t tell me people aren’t “captivated”, because if they weren’t, it wouldn’t still be in the headlines.
I actually think you’re right, Terence. People drown or die in tragedies every day. But right now, only one story is making the news (both sports news and nationoal news) and that’s the story of the NFL players lost at sea. Yes, it’s sad whenever someone dies in an accident like this. And it’s devastating to the friends, families, and community of the victims. Those stories will sadden us, but won’t really capture our interest. When it’s a sports star…someone we see on TV and sometimes admire, then we’re captivated.
Someone on the sports vent the other day said something like “God bless the Coast Guard for searching for those lost men.” The Coast Guard does work like this EVERY DAY but no one really mentions it until something like this happens.
I’m no diehard Terrence Moore fan, but it seems like everyone here has made up their minds that they hate him and will find every possible argument to make with him.
This is a most tragic case and did not have to happen!
I cried when I read that story, and thought, what were they doing in rough seas, anchored? By what the survivor said, they did not have life jackets on. I would think a 21 foot fishing boat did not have much ‘free board’, this is the distance between the water line and top of the boat, which protects the craft from taking on water in high seas. A Boating Safety course should be required when anyone purchases or registers a boat, whether a motor boat or sail boat of any size. My prayers go out to the famiies.
I appreciate the thoughtful comments. This is a serious subject, and some of you have taken it as that. Thanks. I particularly appreciate the fact that you’ve taken the high road.
WHY – Because the press makes them out to be GOD. Any incident like this is a true tragedy, but you guys make such an incident to an athelete to be so much bigger than to the normal JOE. An then ask such a dum question?? What a nothing you are to write such.
For me personally, I was 7 years old, on August 2nd 1979, when I heard the news that Thurman Munson had died during a crash while in his plane. I was crushed…my two cousins and I, all devoted Yankee fans were in tears. It was gut-wrenching as it was the first death of someone who meant something to me, in my life, either on a personal level or a person i admired from afar. I cried myself to sleep that night and was miserable for the whole next week. I cried watching on TV the ovation he received versus the Orioles the next day…i cried again when all the Yankees went to the funeral.
I suppose it affected me so much because as i said, it was the first “death” of anyone in my life that i felt mattered to me on any level. I mean, I used to be able to emulate Munson’s stance and swing perfectly (and all the other Yankees) he was the Captain, he was a hell of ballplayer in general and really the heartbeat of that team.
When i think about it, i probably would have been just as crushed had it been Graig Nettles or Chris Chambliss…mainly because to me at that age, there was the Yankees and nothing else. I didn’t care about hockey or basketball and while i loved football, i was not attached to any team.
I guess when you are 7 there aren’t many people to look up to in the public eye and actually pretend to emulate, at least back in those days.
Movie Stars weren’t that important to a seven year old and though i loved KISS when i was seven, it was not the same feeling you got back in those pre-internet, pre MTV days.
Sports seemed much more real, and you could do what they were doing and pretend to be them i suppose.
I cried when Mickey Mantle said he should have taken better care of himself. “But you’re Mickey Mantle” I thought. I was shattered.
My dad told me he cried when Babe Ruth died because he knew The Babe didn’t take care of himself, either.
I cried the day I read about how Ty Cobb’s dad was shot to death climbing through a window in his own house by his wife’s lover who thought he was shooting at a burglar/peeping tom guilty of coitus interruptus.
Wow! How can another human being wished such ill will on others regardless on if they deserve it or not BravesFan79? You wishing ill will against someone who is of “low character” says what about you
Terrie,
these aren’t tragedies they are accidents. let’s keep events in perspective
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Hey Baracked the vote (stupid screename) the definition of a tragedy is:
a lamentable, dreadful, or fatal event or affair; calamity; disaster. This was a dreadful and fatal event. Thus making it a tragedy. Show some heart and respect.
Terence Moore, you’ve got to be the biggest idiot that ever wrote a sports column for the Atlanta Papers. Just because someone chooses to play sports doesn’t make that person’s death or tragedy any worse than the person that chooses to actually do something constructive with his/her life. Man, you need to do a little soul searching…..dig down deep and find out why you feel this way or do you write columns like this just to get reactions? If that’s the only way you can get someone to read your 500 words, you need to seriously think about another vocation.
Its tragic anytime someone dies and I certainly don’t want to diminish the deaths of these 3 young men. But let’s face it. The only reason their deaths are in the news is because we live in a superficial, celebrity driven culture. That’s why. If 2 of them weren’t NFL players would this have been reported? Most certainly NOT! A celebrity or athlete’s death isn’t any more important than the death of anyone else.
The only thing that is shocking to me is how either shallow or flat out stupid we are as a culture. People will remember these player’s deaths and feel a sense of great tragedy over them or over celebrities or athletes that they never even knew. Men like Dale Earnhardt, Thurman Munson,etc.
These same people probably didn’t know or didn’t care about the genocide that went on in Yugoslavia in the 90s that killed 100,000 people or more yet polls showed the majority of Americans didn’t want us to commit forces to stop the genocide. Polls also showed we didn’t want to involve ourselves in stopping the wholesale slaughter of 800,000 Tutsis via machetes and hoes by the majority Hutus in Rwanda 10 years ago. And people absolutely do not care about the mass raping, murder, and general genocide going on today in Darfur, Africa going on at this very moment that has killed about 100,000 people over the last several years.
So while I think the the deaths of these 3 men is tragic it pales in comparison to real tragedies that are going on every single day throughout the world at this very moment in time. Quit wasting news time on the deaths of 3 men when there is so much other serious stuff going on all over the world every single day.
One other thing and then I will get off my high horse. These 3 deaths did not captivate the entire world as you posted. About a billion people a day struggle every day just to have enough to eat that day. I seriously doubt they have the time or inclination to be “captivated” by this non-event when they are just trying to eat for the day.
And lastly, who on earth would idolize someone just because they play a pro stick and ball sport? Would you really idolize someone because they just happen to have the god given talent to be able to make a lot of money by playing a game for a living? We’re talking about people who play a child’s game for a living 6 or 7 months out of the year. They just happen to be on tv and get paid a lot of money to play these games. So what? And to think people actually look up to people like pro athletes? I think some people call them jock sniffers.
It is newsworty because there were professional athletes involved that are in the public eye. I don’t think anyone would suggest that this is more tragic because athletes were involved. It is absolutely retarded to suggest that. Whenever anyone dies its tragic, but not necessarily newsworthy. There is a difference. This is not rocket science and this is a very dumb column.
I suppose all the major news outlets should spend all their time reporting on obituaries? I mean, we want to make everything fair and don’t want to give anyone special treatment. Geez. What a dumb column.
I have read your columns for years, and I would like to say I have almost always found your work to be thought provoking, even when we may have differing opinions. Your assessment is correct in the notion that society as a whole follows stories such as these with more interest when athletes or other famous personas are involved. I was in Florida on vacation several years ago when the Coast Guard recovered the two Clayton County firefighters who perished when their boat overturned in a similar fashion. The situation was no less tragic, but other than the AJC, the story did not appear anywhere else. Such stories remind us of our own mortality and when they involve people who are “famous” it makes them seem even more tragic.
All of that said, what tragedy involving a sports personality affected you the most, and why was it so difficult to handle?
I’ve never been affected by anything related to an athlete, but Skip Caray’s passing made me sad. I think the reason for that is the fact that I can’t remember a time in my life that he wasn’t calling Braves games. My earliest memory of Braves baseball on TBS was 1977. I was 7 years old at the time, so I basically grew up listening to Ernie, Pete, and Skip.
I ask again, if you people dislike Moore so much, why are yall reading his blog? Not exactly sure how Moore is rated, but i’m guessing his blog views are looked at. So everytime you trolls come on here to bash him, his views go up, which is what he is paid make happen.
Score:
Moore – 1
Booger-eating, Moore hating trolls – 0
I think Fractional Frank had it correct. Fame is the greatest reason. That, and a zealous media looking for anything to improve ratings. Why is the tragic death of a little girl in Orlando any more devastating than the hundreds of children who die tragically across the world every week? Does Nancy Grace have anything else to talk about? Do old ladies in Peoria have anything else to do than watch this exploitation? I am so sick and digusted at all of the hype that tragedies like this create. One thing is for sure, if people wouldn’t watch it, they would stop exploiting it. I, for one, am done!
Terrell (stupid screen name)
I was using Merriam-Webster’s online dictionary, which is pretty good standard for me. tragedy: a disastrous event . It is not matter of showing heart. Like I said, just keeping events in perspective. 4,000 soldiers dying in Iraq is a tragedy.
I guess the first “sports tragedy” I recall really hitting home was when the Witchita State football team was killed in a plane crash in 1972. there was a photo of a helmet in the wreckage. this and maybe the murder of the Israeli athletes at the 72 Olympics. the latter was, of course, different in nature. the fact that the guys were famous and as athletes somehow maybe more “alive” than the accountant next door or the woman who works at the dry cleaners. But once the story is out there the fact that they are ball players becomes less relevant. I recall myself having been out on a deep sea fishing trip and a storm coming on quickly and unexpectedly like this and us being scared we were going to drown–all my male in laws and my seven year old son. Maybe that is why this particular story has really tugged my heart strings. Young people cut down in the prime of life. A day of fun and fellowship turned to tragedy. Imagining the lonely feeling dying out in that water or watching the other guys drift off. If this story doesn’t touch you then you may already be dead.
Good column Terrence…but I don’t think sports tragedies are any worse than any other…I will be interested to know how the young man who survived fares…survival guilt can be extremely tough. Sports tragedies do seem to shock us sometimes as we feel that these young people are so healthy and strong that nothing can happen to them.
They print this in the papers or make it big news on TV because people, fans, etc. can recognize the one’s involed. It sells because it grabs your attention. If you can’t relate to sports, entertainment, and poltical figures then pass it by. Most people take an extra look… hence this story.
One is always astonished by the extraordinary ignorance and hostility of Georgians for the most part – and these are the ones that can write. Mr. Moore places a thoughtful question and is answered with ridicule. No wonder we lost the Civil War.
Now, the answer to Moore is clear – any time someone the Gods have favored is laid low, it has the elements of tragedy. In their youth, sports figures have what seems to be a free pass in life – health, vitality, money, adoration from strangers. When it is snatched away and they are revealed to me as mortal as we are, our reverie is shattered.
It is very simple. The teams roars when a guy practices a dunk, but when he practices free throws, if he does, he is probably by himself. Coaches don’t make the players practice free throws on
their time!!
For people making millions of dollars, it behooves them to spend hours of their own time practicing shots that routinely make the difference in winning or losing. As you astutely said, Terence, they’re free throws.
Terrence, everyone says these players are so talented versus players from the past, BULL! I have been a Hawks fan for 36 years and it just keeps getting worse. It would be interesting to take your research one step further and see if there is a connection between free throw percentage and play off spots over the last ten years. One of the reasons Kobe and Michael and all the stars put up big numbers is free throws and making a high percentage! If you are a true professional, you work on your weaknesses not your strengths(see the aforementioned Jordan and consistent outside shot).
I definitely agree about the importance of FT shooting and I’m also discouraged by the local teams performance in that area. However, I saw an interesting article the other day about FT percentages:
I always assumed that FT percentages used to be much better but this article says they’ve stayed amazingly stagnant. I didn’t do any research to check his number but I know I was very surprised by this.
Terrance – Do they practice free throws in game type situations? In other words, can they stop practice in the middle of tiring drills and try to shoot while breathing hard? Do they try to distract the players while they are shooting like in games? Do you think that would help?
You bring up a good point. Most of the great players were wonderful free-throw shooters. That’s why Wilt Chamberlain was such a celebrated exception to the rule.
And to ew11, that was an interesting article on FT percentages. Thanks for the link.
You need to pass your suggestions on to the Hawks, Jackets, Bulldogs and Panthers. Great points. We used to do much of that for my basketball teams back in the day.
My high school team were generally excellent free-throw shooters, even our big men. What our coach had us do was alternate shooting 10 free-throws and then running suicides for each free throw you missed, it meant extra suicides for the whole team. And we couldn’t end practice until every player had made all ten in at least one trip. His major idea was two-fold:
1) simulate the pressure of in game free throws as much as possible. having to extend practice and do extra suicides is a pretty big amount of pressure, as much as you can probably simulate in practice.
2) A lot of the issue with free-throws in game is leg fatigue. It’s one thing to just walk up to the free throw line and sink 91 out of 100 there by yourself. Its quite another to do that after you’ve been running up and down the court for an hour. This is another reason I believe that running teams have a harder time with free-throws than more half-court oriented teams. They run more, thus their legs get more tired, thus their free-throw shooting suffers. Our coach wanted to simulate in game leg fatigue, so that we could help with muscle memory not just on fresh legs, but tired legs too.
I’m with you. I stink, I mean, STINK at basketball and have never played on a team, and yet I go to the gym now and then and shoot free throws and can hit 6 of 10. How can an NBA player not be able to hit at least 8? I’ve never understood it.
Then again, when was the last time a guy got an extra $10 million tacked onto his contract for good free throw shooting?
Fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals. It’s all about flash now. Nothing flashy about making free throws – oh, except it’s the difference between winning and losing.
I wonder how many players would rather look cool losing than give up the attention and win. I wonder…
After coaching high school boys in Ga for thirty years , I can tell you that poor FT shooting is a direct result of the ESPN/AAU influence on players. You don’t see highlights of clutch made FT’s, and you don’t have many AAU guys who can or will teach shooting fundamentals. Most players are not willing to put in the repititions it takes to groove correct shooting mechanics. The guys you see on TV in the NBA or D1 college were so physically talented that most of them are not forced to learn to shoot. They thrive with the dribbling/driving/dunking game until they get to a level where they are not more talented physically than everyone else. Lebron is much better shooter now because he had to become better. In an article in SI last month, he talks of working on his mechanics at very close range to create muscle memory. Most young guys will not do that. They back out too far (usually the 3 pt line) and their mechanics go to “heck” and they miss. Then, they give up and go back to their old way b/c it feels more comfortable. Voila! They continue to miss. FT shooting reveals the poor shooting mechanics. Great topic TM.
I think the search was handle prematurely, with no confidence at all, but the rescue team did do well with displaying alot of hope. Which is good for nothing, when you have role models/players lost at sea hope is what they needed, hope is what they were looking for, but yet there hope was realied on Trained Professionals who’s training was based on hope. hope is hopeless with out proper training, without proper navigation, without proper preparation. None of these where displayed only hope. No HELP from the NFL, No HELP from other COAST GUARDS from surrounding cities. I guess they where to busy with there on problems its the Gulf Of Mexico its not the Pacific or the Atlantic. The NFL I understand its DRAFT SEASON
So you think free throws are easy..if that was the case you would not have written on the subject..after all layups are suppose to be easy but they are often missed. but do you write about that?
The answer is simple..free throws are 15 foot shot taken without one being defensed. If a player has a 40-60 shooting percentage from the wing, corner, foul extended etc…then why is he expected to shoot 70-90% from the foul line….. the simple answer is that this person is not a very good shooter….he will perform basicall the same be it free throw or any other 15ft shoot…..
this whole conversation does not make much sense to me…..I played the game and shot around 75% in both areas
Free throws and fouls should be removed from the game. It slows down the pace and takes up too much time. Unless, they allow a player to take his or her free throw as a running start from the foul line and sky down to the rim and jam in with a Tommahawk or a nice 360. That way, it could be a free throw down and there would be standing room only crowds. Or, they could use a little trampoline like the mascots .
It’s all about ME ME ME, and nothing gets more attention than a BIG slam dunk and hanging on the rim. The heck with the team, it’s all about the personal highlights.
I thought that TM just conveniently left Kennesaw State out of this story because maybe their percentage was too good to be used to make his point. I did some quick research and found that the Owls are shooting 66 percent for eighth place out of 11 team in the Division 1 Atlantic Sun Conference. So this probably would have worked fine in the article. I think probably what happened was that unbelievably TM doesn’t realize that there is a third Division 1 team in the area.
This is mostly a racial phenomenon… Blacks refuse to learn from whites who know what to do…. If they did; their fellow blacks would deride them for being an Oreo….simple as that in 85% of the cases….Paul Hewitt is learning this in spades….(no pun intended). Blacks by and large don’t care about succeeding in a white man’s world…they care about being black, which is quite stupid; since it makes them losers….
Great column! You are very right Terence, and I will say this and perimeter shooting have both suffered. When I watch classic games up to the mid-eighties I am forced to say it was a better played game then. Pop in a video of a Magic-led Lakers team and marvel at how efficiently they played. I only wish players and teams today could match it. They cannot!
Excellent thought provoking column, this is astute insight! I have always found it hard to believe that someone who plays basketball for a living, full time, can’t hit at least 70% from the “Charity Stripe.” I sat the bench in high school, but still can shoot 65-70%, so the best athletes we can muster should be able to do better.
It would be interesting to see how many games each of these teams would have won if they could have averaged 72%?
Thanks for a very interesting article Terrance. It seems to me that too many youngsters never develop a Mark Price shot because they spent most of their shooting practice “launching” shots from beyond the 3 point line. Unfortunately, this practice begins with 7 or 8 year old players. They never learn the basic mechanics of a good jump shot that can be deadly from the 12 – 15 foot range. Parents might consider not letting their children “throw” up shots, but teach them how to shoot a fundamentally sound, mid-range jump shot. I think the free throw percentage would improve drastically. Good luck with that dad!!!!
Free throws are difficult in your driveway, at the high school gym, and during a pro game. The basket is too small. The ball is too big. The free throw line’s distance is just out of reach for surety. You try making free throws. Practice doesn’t help you at crunch time. People forget about crunch time, yes, crunch time…. free throws. they just don’t mix.
As far as comparing today’s players to yesteryear’s, you cant. Today is more of a wrestling match. They respected the foul in the old days. They mug each other now. It’s unwatchable. I like women’s basketball because they respect the rules. You may not touch the player with the ball at all. Don’t touch him/her. Don’t do it. It’s against the rules. See, there was a movie called “no country for old men” where the theme was that once kids stop saying “sir”, then the whole society goes down hill. I disagree. I think it’s more accurate to say that once basketball players start cheating, then the fans don’t care, and then society goes to pot.
I don’t care if his brother-in-law is trying to spend this country into ruin (or socialism…not that there’s a difference); if Robinson can lead the Dawgs to victory, I’m all for his hiring.
Is 7 wins in the PAC-10 really a “miracle”? Nonetheless, seems the Obama connection really would be good for GA basketball. Hopefully, Craig can do some coaching, too, along the way.
“Middle of nowhere”? Nice, keep perpetuating that East Coast bias. Like Athens is the center of the universe? When did UGA move to Atlanta? Clearly you need a little geography lesson. Corvallis is 80 miles from the center of a 2+ million person metro area. Athens is 70+ miles from a similiar (albeit larger) metro area. Are you confusing Corvallis with Pullman? Don’t worry, common mistake for those residing East of the Mississippi. Oh yeah, and Oregon State is the Beavers…in case you were confused…or wondering. Oh, and there is another D-1 program 40 miles away from the “middle of nowhere”. They are known as the Ducks. How far is the next closest D-1 program to UGA???? How do you define “middle of nowhere”?
What would the plan be? Spend every dime UGA has and see if somehow you can make a profit ( a winning season I guess in this case) in the end. I’ll pass. He is where he belongs….a blue state.
SuperBeav…settle down. I grew up in Athens and went to school at OSU…..Corvallis IS kind-of in the middle of nowhere. You cant expect everyone in the nation to know the difference between Corvallis and Pullman either. It’s not bias…Oregon and GA are pretty far apart ya know. Do you know how many people have asked me where Clemson, Auburn, Vanderbilt, etc are since I’ve moved to Oregon? Lots….are they West-coast biased?? No. Dont take offense. Beavs have a good coach and I do think he would be a good fit at UGA…but I also like what he’s done for OSU so I’d just assume him stay where he is.
Let me be the first from Beaver Nation to warn UGA supporters of Craig Robinson. You don’t want him to be your coach. Here’s a list of things that people don’t want to hear in Corvallis about their beloved miracle worker.
1. Contrary to belief, Jay John left the Beavs with a ton of talent. Coach John was stuck with undesirable facilities and a non-existent home crowd. John Wooden couldn’t have won a game in Corvallis last year with the fab five.
2. His socialist coaching philosophies have bankrupt the OSU athletic budget. The guy coddles and bestows entitlement on his players and all it got us is 7 wins in the weak Pac-10.
3. Did I mention everyone is annoiting him the savior of OSU hoops by winning 7 Pac-10 games. That’s like winning 2 games in the WCC.
4. How far can the backdoor-motion-Princeton offense and a 1-3-1 zone defense take you anyways? I’ll tell you. 7 wins in the WEAK A$$ Pac-10!
5. If UGA were to sign him as a coach they would have to pay the $1 million buyout clause. That’s like scheduling OSU to play in UGA in football in Athens and then losing the gimmie game. That is a no-win situation if their ever was.
6. He’s a liberal. He doesn’t just want his team to win. He wants everyone to win. So while us OSU fans had to put up with 11 loses in conference, Robinson played it off like everyone won 18 games because everyone is a winner just for stepping on the court.
7. He wants to change the school colors from Orange and Black to red and yellow. No word on the hammer and sickle or stars for the new logos.
8. I don’t think he likes white people.
9. He used to work on Wall Street. Talk about a show stopper on trust.
10. People on the “left” coast love him. When have they ever got anything right?
The problem is that free throw shooting has NOT changed in the NBA or NCAA Division over the last 50 years. Declining free throw skills is a myth or mass misperception. The Charlotte paper had and article about this recently. NCAA 2008 FT% 69.1%. NCAA 1968 FT%- 69.1%. Did you actually research any statistics? Furthermore, basketball at the upper levels involves more running and intense defense than decades ago- thus more fatigue which makes free throw shooting more difficult.
….. and I suppose your next fine suggestion will be to change the UGA Mascot to a Portuguese Water(Bull)Dog? …. and while we are at it maybe we can just stop keeping score … that winners/losers thing is really a self esteem deflater right? The last thing we need is another Obama ‘up in our business’ so I vote NO …. unless,of course,he is willing to work for less than $400,000 per year … that’s the Obama salary cap right? That would save us about 1.6 mil.
Vandy, no offense taken. I don’t expect everyone to know where all those schools are located geographically, but I would expect a “sports columnist” who covers college athletics to know. I’ve been to Athens and enjoyed myself. But it is a bit of a trek from Atlanta, in a similar fashion as Corvallis is from Portland. Neither of these places would I describe as “middle of nowhere”. A bit more rural maybe…. definitely not urban areas.
Team is much improved – players respected and revered him.
If he can coach and focus on education – at least he’s earned an interview.
Please don’t make this a political or race issue. We are all Americans and we are all guarenteed our right to an opinion and free speech. I would think Coach Robinson would be professional enough to focus on his true love – teaching and winning basketball games.
What I care about is how affective our next coach will be as a teacher/mentor – it will show up in wins/losses and graduation rates…..and I want both – wins and graduations.
Felton did wonders at Western KY – he too was a disciplinarian and focused on academics – and I wish it worked out for him.
From a Dawg fan that lives in Birmingham. I would like to see Mike Anderson get a shot. After watching his teams at UAB, the man runs a succesful program and ……. wins!
Well T. Moore him being Obama’s brother in-law dont have anything to do with it. Don’t make this a racial thing. Go after the best man for the job who ever it may be. Most in Ga. aren’t Obama fans anyway at least that what the polls proved.
Terrence, I did not think of this but what a great article and suggestion. Craig Robinson is a great coach and even better person. I hope Damon Evans has the same idea. And yes I am a UGA grad-white male from the Southeast, and I am all about Barack and Michelle Obama. Don’t pay any attention to these idiots on here talking about socialism and race-your story had absolutely nothing to do with race and they know not what they speak of. Keep up the good work! Your honesty is refreshing and sometimes hurts, but you really make me think. Hard for some of these morons on this board to think and reason for themselves-they just listen to and believe everything that Rush Limbaugh and Charles Stanley tells them.
The Jayson Blair of the AJC has been itching to write something or anything to mention Obama.
I wonder if Obama lies to him as often as he does to the American Public…you know, campaign finance reform, earmarks, shutting down gitmo (its still open and it will be a year from now), pulling troops out of Iraq immediately, not having sex with that women (opps wrong President), Hope and Change (killed all hope and has change nothing in politics), etc…Stay tune he’s only been in office for 2 months.
Wow, almost had a .500 season and he’s head coach material. Sounds like a Felton Jr. to me. Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good article Terence, I mean Jayson.
I say go after Mike Davis. He has rebuilt an absent program at UAB and proved he coach in big games at IU. Or take a shot at the head coach at VCU, sorry dont remember his name. All of these coaches have something in common…PROVEN RECORDS!!
sounds like a great candidate. we’ll see what evans thinks. many ppl on this blog need to have a lot more class and stop dropping the negative race card.
Terrence: why bring the “stink” in DC any closer to Athens,Ga. Leave him 3000 miles away. Is there a “buyout clause” for the present president? I’m sure we could raise it!!
Ha. A good read. As far as Obama, I voted for the other guy. I absolutely respect the office and as far as the man–I disagree with most all of his ideas, but he is not Clinton. I respect the man too.
I think it would be kind of cool for the Obamas to be DAWGS!! I however am not a basketball coach recruiter so I don’t even have an opinion. I do my job well and thousands of people trust me to do it well. I trust Damon and the athletic board to do their jobs well too.
You people are idiots. T. Moore never made this about race or politics. He simply mentioned that Robinson is the First Lady’s brother. Nothing more, nothing less. I think he would be an excellent fit for u[sic]ga.
Why would you want Peavy to come to the Braves when we would have to give up great young talent in Escobar and Hanson. Hanson will be the next Peavy and Burnett rolled into one superstar of a young pitcher. Wren and the Braves have made some good moves and I am excited about where the club is heading.
good idea, Craig Robinson is a great coach, and folks stop the bullshit about politics. I lived in Italy and Germany and I’m really amazed by how people talk about socialism and clearly they have no idea what socialism is about! dont listen to biased opinions just form your own opinion by researching and reading, united states is not a socialist country and it wont be however socialism in my opinion is not as bad as people fear, if you are true Christian then by nature you should be pro socialism, by definition if you ever gave a charity then you acted as a socialist!! just lookt it up
Terrence Moore wouldn’t no a “scoop” if it him in the forehead. Coach Robinson’s coming here, just like Griffey. Please. Terrence, he literalyl told you know and you still think you’ve got a story. How bout that mystery Griffey cousin????
I can’t believe I read thie crap column again. Moore outta be in jail cause he’s stealing from the AJC. If UGA hires that guy, I’m done caring about UGA basketball…..
In all actuality, Terrance Moore might be right on this one. I think that it would send the wrong message to kids in Georgia if UGA were to replace Felton with a white coach. The guy is a great recruiter, and it wouldn’t hurt having the Prez’s ear..:D
As the editor of Bulldawg Illustrated, I can definitely say that the Bulldog Nation is hungary for a hoops team they can rally behind. I watched “CBS Sunday Morning’s story”: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/01/sunday/main4836652.shtml on Craig Robinson and must say he is one impressive dude. I completely agree with you that he would be a great fit in Athens and hope your column is taken noticed by Damon Evans.
RAMBLE ON, if you had thoroughly read the comment I made I said that Terrence’s column was not about race. I never pulled the card. There is nothing to put back in the deck. Oh yeah thats right you can’t read letters, you can only add and subtract numbers….go pound sand you engineer gnat nerd
Good idea. Get a coach who would leave a school after one mediocre season. If he has a good season at Georgia, he would immediately leave again like Tubby and if he sucks, you couldn’t fire him because he will get the Obama entitlements and a new house.
Of course Terrance Moore, of course. Why you are still allowed to write for this paper is beyond me. If they continue to let you, can you say “Rocky Mountain Press.”
“Miracle worker”… that’s sounds to be a stretch. Perhaps you are just sucking up to the man, TMoore. I fully support UGA hiring an African-American coach, because the best candidate will probably be an African-American. Let’s not hire a coach because his militant sister is married to the President. Let’s hire a coach because he is worthy of being a coach at The University of Georgia. Let’s hire him because he WANTS to be the Head Basketball Coach at The University of Georgia. Let’s hire a coach because we believe he is the BEST person for the job. Personally, the more I learn about Grant, the more I like him.
TMoore, hope Ms. Comrade Tucker bought you lunch for this one!
Beav, please tell me you’re not comparing Corvallis to Athens…I grew up in Oregon and went to Washington…you KNOW that OSU is the middle of nowhere…almost as much as Washington State.
I did my MBA at UGA and believe me…Corvallis is definitely no Athens, you should maybe visit and see why it’s generally ranked one of the top 5 college towns in the US. Seriously.
The Backwoods, racist, rednecks in Georgia would never have Robinson as coach. Simply due to who his brother-in-law is. Anyone ever looked on Wooten’s blog? UGA is in the SEC for crying out loud!!! They should have a team in the tournament every year. Whenever they stop splitting the football/basketball money 90/10, and hire a good coach they’ll be ok.
Wow. i love you dilusional fans talking about trying to get Capel from OU or Calipari from Memphis. What in the world makes you think they would leave top 5 programs with first class facilities in Norman or Memphis respectively to head to Athens, Ga to play in a barn of a basketball gym (Stegman is by far the worst basketball facility in the SEC, Auburn is a close 2nd but they are building a new one)? Get real. A guy like this is the BEST you could possibly hope for. Your program always has been and always will be a joke. Just accept it and watch the women’s team.
No, he cheats. not everyone gets an ivy league education. he cheated by going to princeton. harrick was a cheater. we don’t need to go back there. how many points is a 3 point basket worth?
Here’s something else about Craig Robinson: He’s a very charismatic guy. You need that to help Georgia basketball move from underneath that huge shadow left by the football team.
He and Mark Richt would co-exist well. That’s because, even though Robinson has a dynamic personality, he isn’t overbearing.
It would be a great move.
I still think Tubby Smith would jump at a chance to return, so I wouldn’t mind that one, either.
i think the key word used by uga is a proven winner as coach. i don’t think color or race is a preference,but someone who can put georgia basketball on the map.
i just hope that dr.adams has any veto power ,after his influence with hiring of jim harrack!
While we are delusional and dreaming, let’s get Coach K. Obviously we are the top job in basketball. Oh this TMo’s blog, let’s get a black coach, maybe Tubby or Hewitt. They dont use any advantages over other coaches. Not facilities, big cities,swimsuits, practice facilities,tutors, or even video of jumpshots. No, that would be cheating and disgusting. HAHAHA, it’s funnyhow this comment will ad to the AUC’s ad revenue and Tmo’s relevance.
That’s really funny – did you hear the comments on “The View” regarding the incorrect grammar of O’Bama. Perhaps Robinson would make a better president:-)
Terrence, you are a race baiting, prejudiced, bigoted, white hating, morally decrepit, pathetic excuse for a journalist and should be banned from the AJC. You are THE reason I no longer PAY for the AJC, and as long as you are employed there, I never will again. You moronic, idiotic, uninformed, excuse for a writer; I think your opinions are like b$$$h%%%s, you have one, and it stinks.
Cant wait til AJC = NYT and goes bye-bye! Maybe a decent paper like the Macon Telegraph will syndicate in the ATL!! If not, thereis always ESPN.com which has better local coverage than this fish wrap.
I could care less who his brother in law is. The fact is that he went 7-11 in the Pac 10. Washington was terrible in the Pac 10 last year, and won it this year. Point being, that it doesn’t take much to improve in that conference. You’ve got UCLA and then nobody. Arizona is down, USC is down, Washington St, is down. The Pac 10 is a bad conference. UGA hiring this guy equals Auburn hiring Chiznik. The only exception being that Chiznik had ties to Auburn and the southeast.
Man, our all republicans this whiny? Your president of the last 8 years just ran the deficit up to 1.7 trillion dollars and ran the economy into the ground and you are worrying about Obama spending too much? Please. Pot calling kettle black scenario if I’ve ever seen one.
And how would want to move from Oregon, one of the most beautiful states in the union to Georgia where it’s 95 degrees 8 months a year and it’s full of religious fanatics who have no tolerance for diversity. Lord forbid you are a muslim or Jew they will think you are the spawn of Satan himself.
My Dad attended a high level donors meeting with the Athletic Director here at OSU and the AD out here is considering cutting coaches pay voluntarly at first by 10% to 15% or with some strong persuasion. I guess its a need from keeping from falling in the red here at OSU. Dad was really upset and threatened to pull support because he likes the basketball and football coaches we have here and they are well like by our big dollar boosters.
Donations are way down at our school and band and cheer squads will be cut in the fall along with other programs. Our AD has to sign off on all expeditures no matter how small. Now tell me how we will be able to keep coaches with those restraints? Dad is meeting with the AD again on Friday. I am hoping our AD will reconsider. I will miss the cheerleaders during football season. That sucks.
Ya’ll are some serious haters. This is a very intriguing story and for everyone of ya’ll implying that the T-Mo is only trying to beef up the idea of UGA hiring an African American coach is absolutely absurd. This guy is as good of a candidate within UGA’s realm. Your program is a sub-par SEC school and is a good stepping stone for coaches to get to an elite program (or for a has-been big headed ego maniac such as Bobby Knight). Intriguing article T-Mo, lord knows it’s a stretch to find anything that anybody is going read about Georgia basketball of late. Keep showing your rear-ends in these blogs Georgia fans. Yall are pathetic.
Mr. Moore: Coach Robinson would be an excellent choice. I usually vote GOP for Prez but voted for his brother-in-law for Prez. I also vote for Coach Robinson. Mr. Evans: What else do we need. Good recruiter. Good coach. Good public relations. Good connection. Too good to be true. I don’t think so. Go for it!
Terence, you forgot to mention that the poor dawg team, like all bad things, is ultimately the fault of Bush. And, of course, the ONLY thing that can make anything GOOD is OUR SAVIOR, the MESSIAH, OBAMA. Maybe while the HOLY CHOSEN ONE is solving the dawg’s problems, HE can also send some more “free” bailout money to me. I am out of money, so I need to buy some more of HIS Kool-aid to keep my faith in the change I am supposed to believe in. Amen.
Great, that is all we need. To have fans that are not really fans of the basketball team. The stadium will be filled to see if the President and First Lady will be there- not to see the Bulldogs play. Not fair to the kids.
Oh great, here we go. Now UGA is damned if they do, damned if they don’t. They just fired a black coach. Now TM is politicking for Obama’s brother in law. If Robinson does not get the job, standby for the next TM article, “Racism in the UGA Athletic Association.”
There is pleanty of talent here in GA, from the players to the coaches. I know this is far fetched, but I have seen Eddie Martin coach High School basketball for over 20 years. Everywhere he has gone he is a winner. It wouldn’t take millions of dollars to bring him up to the college ranks. This can be done, he is highly respected not only locally, but on a National scale. What UGA needs is someone who can pick up the program, and produce a winning team with the talent already in place. EDDIE MARTIN, CAN DO THIS. I have seen him take a bunch of kids with no talent and mold them into a winner.
The prez and pelosi met last week. FYI, they are planning on “redistributing” the talent in all sports. Their belief is that it will just be “more fair”. Why should one team have a record of, lets say, 20-0 while another one might be 9 – 11. They just do not believe this is right.
Joey the plugs biden
first off LMFAO at the guy who suggested UGA go after Calipari or Capel…
Explain to me your logic as to why the head coach at MEMPHIS (aka a legit #1 seed and potentially the #1 recruiting class for this year and years’ to come) or Chokelahoma (again a legit #1 seed contender with a HUGE recruiting base/incoming class) would even consider this downtrodden program…
Stegeman is a drafty, old, unattractive, 3/4 empty barn.
You’ll be lucky to get a decent “up & comer” to even consider UGA.
you all sound like a bunch of sour grapes, whiney @ss, FOX News watching neocon’s…
Obama is YOUR Commander-in-Chief, show some respect. Those of you who voted for the last moron (twice) have literally ZERO grounds to even speak as you are directly responsible for the trampling of our constitution and the disappearnce of our civil liberties.
Go thump your Bible and worship your Rush Limbaugh posters…
Interesting, Robinson’s been a head coach since ‘06 and he’s the guy for UGA? I’d like to see UGA get a coach with a proven record in a program with at least 5 years so he’s winning with his own recruits and not the last coach’s recruits.
But by all means, hire a guy with 3 years head coaching experience because he’s the President’s brother-in-law. That makes good sense. NOT!
I don’t know to many Georgia fans that would be thrilled to have an Obama connection to their school…They are the most pretentious, snooby, and racist, people on earth…just ride by the frat houses during election time
Why is everything racist? Oh- is it because we’re in Atlanta and blacks think they rule???? They do not rule. Hire the coach because of his/her skills. Not their color or relationships.
Atlanta needs to get past all this racist/color crap.
There you go again, Terrence. You are the best at bringing race into any sports picture. Granted basketball is a black man’s sport, but UGA desperately needs a coach who can turn this pathetic program around. Why not let Damon Evans and his staff find the best basketball coach available regardless of race? If I remember you were real high on the Felton mainly because he was black. That didn’t quite work out, did it? Oh, I get it. You want the President’s brother in law to get the job so you can take much of the credit and be the big man of sports writers. Yeah, OK. Never mind that the UGA basketball program will still be in the ditch. UGA will have a black coach and one that will be even harder, if not impossible, to fire when he doesn’t perform. God, Terrence, you’re so smart. Maybe you’ll be one of the last to go when the AJC goes belly up. Maybe the first Brother In Law can put in a good word for you?
I’m live in GA and i’m no DAWG fan. I don’t like the dawgs. Craig would be a great asset to GA dawg program. I don’t care if you are a NASCAR, or using that dumb false line about Obama socialism, or voted for the other guy, GA needs a new basketball coach. bottomline! Georgia needs to get over it. Especially when Georgia is in the top three for a high drop out rate in schools and the highest in the country for low test scores. Marinate on that!
Blacks think they rule in Atlanta. Thanks Sandra do you even live intown.
Whites think they rule Alpharetta. They do not rule.
As a member of the DAWG NATION lets hire a Republican coach who
can get all the good private school players and run an Air Force Academy style
offense. We will get 4 years out of them and graduate them on time too.
Since the UGA student body is majority white the place will sell out.
Terence, which white coaches do you think would be great hires? Are there any?
Would you applaud if they could steal Jamie Dixon from Pitt? Sean Miller from Xavier? Anyone?
I’m happy with any PROVEN winner who runs a clean program. If that’s Capel, great. If that’s Dixon or Miller, great. If it’s Anthony Grant, I could accept it I suppose but he is NOT as proven at the level of the others and the hire is SUPPOSED to be a proven winner and money is supposedly no object. We’ll see if they are telling us the truth.
And to the Beaver fans, please understand who wrote this article. He doesn’t know anything about Corvallis and doesn’t care so you shouldn’t take any offense. He’s just trying to write something to get people angry and respond, calling him a racist. It’s all he’s got left for the most part, although in this case I suspect he’s dreaming about being able to meet the Obamas as well.
at least he’s not as UGLY as that Michelle! Barry must have been high when he proposed to Michelldabeast! For the first time in my adult life I think the first lady is FUGLY! Oh, and an elitist! If Jimmy Carter sent his kids to public school, why can’t she? BECAUSE SHE KNOWS THAT THEY SUCK!
While I don’t mind TMoore writing this article, because I was not even aware of Craig Robinson being the BIL of the President nor that he was a head coach in Div 1, he does NOT fit the description of what Damon Evans is looking for. I don’t think his relationship with the first family is reason to even be in the running for the coaching job in Athens. If I read it correctly, he has been coaching for what about 3-5 years or something. He might be an up and comer but but he is NOT ready to take UGA basketball to the next level YET. Maybe if he had been coaching at Oregon State for 3-4 years and you could see the progression of his coaching but hardly now.
UGA needs to go after Sean Miller, Jeff Capel, or Anthony Grant. Those are guys that I could see taking the job and running with it. My personal choice would be Tubby but I think that ship has sailed.
Sounds like an OK coach, but then again not necessarily more OK than Dennis Felton. Is the fact he’s the President’s brother-in-law an actual job qualification? I don’t think so.
The only reason this article was written is because this coach is Obama’s brother in law. If he was just a regular joe then Terrence wouldn’t even know who this guy is. Clearly Anthony Grant should be numero uno on UGA’s list. Capel isnt leaving Norman for that ugly program in Athens.
This is hilarious….I’ve never seen such a Republican pity party. LOL. No wonder the whole country turned on you idiots….stupid is as a stupid does, right Forest? It was pretty evident that your party was screwed when Palin was picked….and you’re too stupid to know that McCain was actually talking down to you by picking her as a running mate….you should’ve been offended by such a patronizing pick, but, of course that went right over your heads…..I guess she had you at “moose hunt”. LOL. good stuff.
I think it’s ridiculous that this article was about basket ball at UGA and it turned into debates about the economy. It took many years for this country to get into this quagmire that we are in but yet Obama was supposed to fix it yesterday? Come on people, get real! Would you all be complaining when McCain had to do some of the same things that Obama is doing to get this mess sorted out. Just a bunch of sore losers who would not want to admit they are wrong.
[...] have to spendtwice as much on their new basketball coach as they did on Dennis Felton.UGA: Could President Obama’s brother-in-law replace Felton?UGA: Georgia is on the verge of cutting a new media rights deal with ISP Sports that would be one [...]
politics, politics, politics, Obama has 4 years to fix it, if it aint fixed, and he gets 4 more, so be it. if it aint fixed in 8 years, we will try someone else. i voted for McCain, we lost, i support Obama now. my paycheck has not decreased. i’m happy. you happy? you need a job? can’t get into college? outwork the Mexican’s…Oh, about b-ball, hire Bobby Knight…..wooooohooooo
The engine in my car is on fire. I think this is the perfect moment to rip out the old cloth seats and replace them with leather. At the same time I am going to use this opportunity to repaint it red. Simultaneously I will replace the 17 inch wheels with a set of 22s and get a new satellite radio system installed. I expect that the above actions are absolutely necessary to put the fire out and get my car back running properly again.
Wow. I didn’t think there was anything that could prevent me from being a Georgia fan, but if hell froze over and this hire was made, I wouldn’t watch a single UGA basketball game until he was gone. Obama is doing damage to our country that the next 20 presidents won’t be able to repair, but who cares, our nation is full of stupid people who bite on buzz words like “change” and phrases like “Yes, we can.” I’m already ashamed to be an American, Mr. Moore…don’t make me ashamed to be a Bulldog too.
This article is ridiculous. DE needs to go out and perform his due diligence, then hire the most qualified candidate. It’s as simple as that. By the way, get out with all of the Obama bashing. It is obvious he is in over his head.
Terrance, once again you have proven that you’re an idiot. When is AJC going to guit letting you write stories about UGA. Everyone knows you hate Georgia, hence you shouldn’t be allowed to post your stupid articles on here.
I don’t know this guy your suggesting for UGA’s next coach, but I think we can do a lot better, and it’s not a racist thing either. I personally think Jeff Capel would be a great candidate if we could lure him away from Oklahoma.
In conclusion Terrance, you have proven once again how stupid you are. I guess your still riding that high since Tech beat Georgia back in November considering you have picked them to do so for like 6 or 7 years and it finally came true. Please, PLEASE crawl back in that whole you came from.
Hmmm. Top ten list of Idiots (like Letterman’s Top 10):
Idiot #10 through 2) G.W. Beaver – Jay John and his “ton of talent” went 0-18 in the PAC-10 in ‘07-’08. You blame this on a non-existent home crowd? 7-11 is quite respectable given the prior year with “all that talent”.
Idiot #1) Terrence Moore – Completely irresponsible of you to name drop that you spent 30 mins. w/ rookie coach Robinson and baited him into a response on UGA’s H.C. position. What if some hack journalist from L.A. asked the same of Mark Richt in his 1st season with the Dogs?
I get it – it’s interesting conversation. Nevertheless, you could have introduced the idea without getting Coach Robinson in hot water with OSU admin. and fans. You are a hack journalist with very little creativity and even less intelligence. I have never enjoyed your articles. Didn’t you go to the Indy 500 years ago and make a pre-race declaration that Mercedes engines could never win in their first year at the Brickyard? Didn’t they finish 1st and 2nd that year? Wasn’t that YOU, Terrence?
Damn! I can’t believe that you rednecks would inject political ideology into the selection of a basketball coach. I can hear “Dueling Banjoes” in the background every time you hillbillies write a comment.
LOL at Texas_fight: “Obama is YOUR Commander-in-Chief, show some respect. Those of you who voted for the last moron (twice)…”
The disconnect is laughable, yet typical.
GMan — The “neocon republicans” weren’t the one who interjected race into the conversation. Terence Moore did that when he claimed that a first-year coach at a middling school 3,000 miles away would be a good choice for UGA because:
1: He’s charismatic
2: He’s related to Michelle Obama.
Hmmm….Maybe I can think of someone who could be a better fit. One with a better track record, perhaps. Hey, how about VCU’s Anthony Grant?
Why would Craig come to Athens where few care about b-ball and the coliseum is the worst in the league? I suspect UGA would be better suited to reset their sights on a realistic choice like a D-II coach.
I confident that coach Robinson will stay out here in Oregon. A coach came over to our house and said that a special guest will be attending one of our baseball games out here. It wont be announced but it sounds exciting. Dad, our AD, his friend Darrell Vandehey, Aunt Michelle and Paul Leavey who works with dad are excited about that prospect.
You see my family started in what you would call southerners call a podunk small town of Cornelius, Oregon. It’s a special place for my family. Dad has alot of pull at the university, he says our coaches will be safe. He is very worried about our baseball coach, two times national champions by the way. Rock on!
Moore, this would be a great grap for UGA. I agree with you, i feel he could lift are program in the right way. As far as him being black or President Obama brother in law i don’t care. Race has never been a problem for me i hate reading these horrible comments. Uga should put full effort in getting him he’s had a nice record in coaching, his recruiting is even better. How good of a chance do we have of landing him Terrance? Me being a white male and a christian i hope we can soon put the race card in the rear view and leave it there. GO DAWGS
If this man has the same socialist views as OBAMA and his wife,please do not bring him to GEORGIA.Our campus has enough liberals on campus already.I know this is athletics and not politics but,you cannot seperate who you are and what you represent.Let me correct that.I think you can seperate them if you believe there is no right and wrong.If there is no moral standard you think is the truth to guide you, then maybe you can seperate them.PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mr. Evans do not let Mr. Moore have this wish.PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hire someone like Coach Richt.PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Terence, They have only gotten the tip of the iceberg there. We have a friend of the family who played with members of our family in all sports growing up. He is now a full scholorship athlete at FSU and laughs when talking with our family, bragging that he has never taken a test while there, nor has he ever written a paper there. He has counselors who do that job for him believe it or not. The academic atmosphere at FSU is a joke and has been for a loooong time. Folks who had the inside scoop on this have known this for years! And NO, he was not one of the 61 caught.
Well if this is the case then how can Mark Richt be held in such high esteem. Surely if you believe this then the assistants and former assistants are/were part of the problem also. Do some research Terrance and get some more facts. While your at it, look into USC, Tennessee and all the other Div.1 schools see what you find. (Hint, if you don’t look, you won’t find anything).
Bobby Bowden claims to be a Christian, as I do. Something needs to be said: he is the biggest hyprocrite I have ever seen. using “dadgummits” instead of curse words doen’t get it done. To Bowden, it has always been about winning no matter what the offense of the player. If the player can help St. Bobby get another win, the player gets a free ride.
I would be embarassed to hang around and be a figurehead coach and take down a great program (built by great assistants) just for the sake of being called the winningest coach in college football. If he loved FSU more than he loved himself, he would have gracefully retired while at the top, not mired in mediocrity and conflict. Keep shining his boots, Jimbo.
Georgia tech was caught with far fewer involved and vacated victories, lost scholarships,etc, so does FSU think it is above everyone else. Looks like Free Shoes University is also Florida Saints Untouchable as well.
You mention 4 former players total in your blog Mr. Moore. How about the DUIs on Georgia’s football team every year. How about Georgia Tech and there lack of a compliance office allowing players to become ineligible without letting them know or not checking up on O’Leary’s resume?
Careful before you jump on the pound Florida State bandwagon before reading the whole truth. The reason why they are appealing the vacation of these wins is there is precendent. Oklahoma was allowed to keep its wins from the Rhett Bomar scandal. You remember right? He was getting paid thousands but working only a few hours at a local car dealership.
How about we investigate Georgia Tech and the boosters that were giving Tony Hollings Simon Mall gifts cards during his run? Have you looked into Jumaine Jones at Georgia arriving with a brand new Expedition with 19 inch rims saying only that it was a graduation present?
Hell has frozen over. I think I agree with Terrance. FSU has continually played fast and loose with the rules and at some point someone has to be accountable.
I only hope that Mark Richt does a better job if there is ever a big UGA scandal. Yes, we get a few arrests every year (as does just about every other big school), but we have yet to have a Free Shoes University or problem like Janikowski.
Bobby Bowden is too far removed from all the stuff that goes on down there. But that is the problem. In this day and age, you cannot have football coaches who are not willing to be involved with every aspect of the athlete’s college life. I do not think for a minute that Bobby Bowden has ever directly been involved with the various football scandals FSU has had over the years. However, I also do not believe he has been diligent enough to try to keep these scandals from happening in the first place. I like Bobby Bowden, but he should have retired 10 years ago. FSU is out of control and it is going to take a new sheriff and deputy (Athletic Director and Coach) to get it back.
Apples don’t fall too far from the tree. Birds of a feather flock together.Once bit lest forget. He who plays with fire will be burned. Or as one of my favorites would go FROM THE IMMORTAL FRED G.SANFORD:
“He who playeth with the sword shall get stucketh”
UGA,GT,UT,UK,UA,AU,USC may be, may be in the same boat. We don’t know. What we DO know if that FSU cheats, period. This is proof. Now, let’s get it over with, and go on to proving what the others do.
BTW, the admin at FSU knows that if St Bowden forfeits wins, it’ll be that much longer before he leaves. Believe me, that’s the last thing they want.
And yes, Richt has had problems with wayward players, they have been summaarily dealt with, and no doubt cost us as well.
Terence – Finally, a columnist with the spine to call-out Bobby. Hopefully the NCAA will also show some spine and deny FSU’s appeal. This penalty is most appropriate as it hurts the identity of the football program which is so intertwined with Bowden’s legacy. Typically the NCAA and the schools gladly stick-it to student athletes by reducing available scholarships, and to fans by damaging the competitiveness of future teams.
GatorSam…had to reply to your post….our friend also says that Dadgummit is the biggest cusser at practice he has ever heard…to quote him, every other word is GD or MF. He told me he had never heard GD so many times in his life as when Dadgummit was cussing at practice. Another fallacy about St. Bobby…and that little tidbit has been confirmed by other ‘Noles as well as our friend FWIW.
First of all T-money if you did your research and not try to put in your own words you would see the aid that gave the answers did not report to the football officials nor did they answer to the Athletic Department, and the investigation by both FSU and the NCAA proved that no coaches had any knowledge that this was going on and when brought to light they players were punished. One thing you fail to mention is that FSU self-reported this to the NCAA, go look up USC and Reggie Bush and the money he was getting. How about you look at the arrest sheets from major colleges. Yes problems exist everywhere but you want to try and bash one guy, good for you on poor research and narrow-minded thinking.
For those of you trying to compare some duis and underage drinking to FSU’s rep need to stop. You are trying to compare grown men in a leadership role who are making a pre-determined decision to do whatever it takes to keep their athletes in school and on the field so they can win to 18,19 year old kids getting drunk in a bar. How many of you got drunk and did something stupid??? It’s apples and oranges people!!!
Most self professed Christians I know are hypocrites….football coaches are the least of the exceptions. Mark Richt is a Bobby Bowden waiting to happen. At least Saban doesn’t preach the Gospel, his hypocrisy lies elsewhere.
GatorSam – do you realize how ignorant of a statement that is? Bobby has changed more lives and allowed more athletes and coaches to become Christians than any other coach in college history. The Fellowship of Christian Athletes gives out an honor every year to the person who demonstrates Christian morals on the field. The award is titled “the Bobby Bowden Award”. He led Mark Richt to Jesus Christ and did the same for a TON of others – I’ve heard players tear up when talking about what an amazing man and father figure Bowden is and how he’s changed their lives. He’s had arguably the biggest Christian impact on players of anyone in college football history.
As good of a coach as Bowden is, he is that much BETTER as a person. Wish you could say the same for Urban Meyer or Steve Spurrier.
Has Terrence ever watched an interview with CR? His eyes are always wide, sometimes almost to the point of popping out. You are making it sound like he is a giddy little boy at the thought of getting to coach at Georgia and when you mention that you think he’d be a great fit his eyes get even wider “really? you think I could have a shot at coaching at UGA? Wowie!”.
Listen if CR leaves OSU I will be sad and I wouldn’t necessarily blame him. But he has done a tremendous job coaching. He took Brown University to their best two year run and best single year ever in their history while coaching there and as soon as he left they had like one Ivy League win this year. He took a 0-18 team that was terrible (bottom 10 shooting percentage in the nation last year, 40 and 50 point losses) and turned out a respectable 7 wins and a number of other games that were close (WSU to overtime) all with the same players. I love a lot of the Players but in reality most should not be in the Pac 10. The man can coach.
Also, Corvallis is a pretty awesome college town. Often ranked as one of the best places to live (7th by Mens Journal top 10 by Parade). Ranked as one of the top 10 places to do business. Rated a bike friendly city. Forbes lists it as the 5th smartest city in the nation. Its one hour from the coast, 1-2 from skiing/snowboarding, 1.5 hours from Portland and an hour from Eugene.
Bowdens been a crook the whole time at FSU, he preaches rightenous, but his players are in more trouble than Miami or UGA. Its about time he get caught, and give it 2 more years and they’ll catch Richt and UGA, didn’t he come from FSU, acorn dosent fall far from the tree. Thats why UGA hired Richt, knew he was like Bowden and UGA loves crooked coaches-Butts, Dooley Harrick and Goff. Thats why UGA cannot get a clean coach to coach them, got to do something illegal as Munson stated once” Dont raise the academics, then we’ll be like Vanderbilt”.
Yes Craig appears to be a good coach with a lot of upside that has proven he can take a dismal program and make it decent. A lot of us at OSU are hopeful that he can take a decent program and make it great… but we will have to wait and see. The Beavs went 0-18 in the Pac-10 last year and won 7 games this year but we in Beaver nation agree that that is a bit misleading because the Pac-10 was top-to-bottom the best conference last year and is WAY down (like about as bad as the SEC is every year…. minus Florida of course) this year after many players left for the NBA (Love, Westbrook, Bayless… to name a few) so that is a part of the reason the Beavs had such a turn around.
I am not sure how much money UGA has to spend on a new coach but Coach Rob (thats what we call Craig Robinson) has a $1 million buyout for another year and a half then it comes down to $500,000… do you guys think your program would pay that (seriously not trying to put you down just want some input)? This also seems to me like a lateral move for Coach Rob and the assumption around Corvallis is he wont leave unless it is a better job. Also if Coach Rob did a one-and-done to Oregon State what makes you think UGA wont just be another stepping stone? It just doesn’t make sense to me but I guess journalist don;t have to make sense they just have to sell papers (we have a guy Canzano that is the same way). Anyway I find a lot of this interesting and look forward to more feedback.
Got to agree with you Moore, only a few more years and ole UGA will get caught. Richt came from FSU so as they say, when in Rome, do as the Romans do, and a limb dosent fall far from the tree.
The next comment that comes from a follower of a university that has been penalized for cheating and doesn’t start pointing at other institutions as a cause and effect excuse will be the first. I think the phrase “accepting responsibility” never occurs to anyone anymore…
You in the media boosted him up to “Saint Status”, so stop it with your crying. He got fat (with victories) while utilizing the wealth of talent found in the state and the occassional blue chipper from Texas, Louisisana, Miss., and Georgia. When the talent started going elsewhere, the program suffered because his coaching ability, or lack thereof, was exposed. I’ve seen some of the practices at FSU. If he is not in the tower far removed from the field, he is riding around in a golf cart with his grandkids. Also, I doubt if he even knows his player’s names. I saw on his weekly TV show a couple of years back he kept calling Geno Hayes (#10) Derrick Brooks. This program has been on the skids every since the Darling kid died doing those mat drills back in 2000. And if anybody thinks Jimbo Fisher is any better, they are kidding themselves. The AD needs to clean house and bring in someone like Jon Gruden.
Mark Richt has not coached at FSU for 8 seasons. Why all the bloggers are trying to rope him into this recent FSU problem is beyond me. Irresponsible college athletes drinking happens at every campus, with the possible exception of Utah, and it is not limited to athletes. Unfortunately it is part of campus life. However having staffers prep answers and prepare papers is an entirely different story. I believe that blew up in Georgia’s face with the basketball program and I guarantee they looked at all their athletic programs at that time. Criticize Richt if you want, but have some basis other than you don’t like his outspoken religious beliefs.
I’m tired of the AJC and others on this blog who no nothing about FSU academics or football to imply that FSU is different from other programs. Yes, when you deal with 19-year-old college students away from home for the first time you inevitably will have some get into trouble. You also will have many players in a competitive program who have trouble keeping up academically. But FSU is not a joke school. Look at the not 1 but 2 Rhodes scholars to come out of FSU athletics in the last few years. Certainly cheating should not be tolerated and those involved disciplined or fired, but to paint the brush over the entire school and football program is pretty lazy journalism. Coach Bowden is responsible for the program as Head Coach, but can’t be expected to hold every player’s hand. Overall, I think he has been pretty consistent at suspending players who get into trouble, regardless of whether they start. If you have any doubt whether the dadgum coach is the real deal or not, get your butt down here to Tallahassee and find out for yourself.
actually, FSU started it’s downhill slide when they were dumb enough to hire Jeff Bowden as the offensive coordinator
Had nothing to do with lack of talent and talent leaving the state. It all had to do with not being able to properly evaluate talent and then develope the talent when it showed up.
As far as coaching, you don’t know much about college coaching and how it works. The head coach, unless a position coach as well, does very little “coaching” at all.
What some people don’t know, because the full story is not being reported here, is that the AD that was in charge when this happened has since been removed.
But again, Terrance being the 50% reporter that he is kindly left that out of his report. He also left out the other approx 10 people that were let go that directly reported to the former AD.
I played at Florida State and I am currently a pastor. I sat under coach Bowden for 5 years (I red-shirted) and whomever the “friend of a friend” is from the other posts is either sorely mistaken or just trying to defame Coach Bowden. The man said about 3 “cuss words” in the 5 years I was there and each time it happened it was in a half time speech and after it was said you could have heard a pin drop. It is simply incorrect to say that “Dadgummit is the biggest cusser at practice he has ever heard…to quote him, every other word is GD or MF. He told me he had never heard GD so many times in his life as when Dadgummit was cussing at practice,” is just incorrect. But, I doubt many of you actually believed this quote anyway.
About him being a hypocrite… The message of Jesus Christ is not a message of perfection; it is a message of necessary forgiveness because we are so imperfect. While I understand the frustration many people have because the church does some stupid things and because prominent Christian people do stupid things; it goes to validate the claims of Jesus that we are broken, selfish people who need a savior, as opposed to making everyone out to be hypocrites.
What happened at F.S.U. was wrong. It was more laziness than anything else, but wrong none the less. The issue is not weather or not F.S.U. should be penalized, but if vacating wins is appropriate. It is bigger than Coach Bowden. It involves the track team winning the National Championship, and being stripped of it as well. There is also a great deal of precedence to support F.S.U. Consider Florida and the Tank Black scandal where guys like Fred Taylor and Javon Kearse were getting paid. Or, Reggie Bush and USC. Or, speeding tickets at Alabama. etc. This isn’t to say that because other schools mess up none should be punished. It is to say that some level of consistency is to be expected.
Finally, F.S.U. self reported. They weren’t protecting any image when they hired an outside investigator to uncover the mess. They weren’t protecting any record when they suspended all those players for the bowl game (which they lost) and they first three games of the following season. Etc. It is not unreasonable for F.S.U. to appeal, nor is it just because it it Bobby Bowden (although he is a big motivator).
Am I missing something here? We give these kids scholarships(which by the way means a free education that would cost you and I a hundred thousand dollars or more)and all they have to do is stay eligible and pass their classes. Then we allow them to take classes that have online tests and don’t expect them to cheat? If their athletic skills are that important to the school and the coach, they should be walked to each class, tutored and forced to study. I guess I missed the memo on the online testing. When did it replace basket weaving as a sure fire way to get an A? If you don’t at least hold the coach somewhat responsible then who do you hold responsible? If I tell my neighbor to watch my 18 year old son while I’m gone and they both go out wreck my new Porsche, who’s responsible? Answer: all of us bear some responsibility, but I’m the moron that left him with the keys. lol
The on-line cheating doesn’t sound much different than what goes on at UGA all the time – particularly near the end of the semester or the end of summer classes (doesn’t it seem funny how those guys who are having to take summer classes suddenly find a way to pass the course). I also bet that this takes place at most other major colleges, particularly the SEC – where it’s win at all costs. But I am only relating my experiences with “players” at Georgia. There are a lot of “cheats”, both in and out of the classroom.
Mr. Moore, who are you to cast stones? Your opinion on Coach Bowden is BS. I have known Bobby for many years (going back to his SGC days) and nothing you have reported describes the man I know.
Reply to Gator Sam @ 1:18= is the man I know. Thanks to the one that wrote it. How many have you won to Christ? Bobby is a much better man than a few AJC reporters that write trash and try to destroy a man. If it makes you feel better have at it but maybe you need to clean up your own back yard first.
SomewhereinGA, Hate to burst your bubble Buddy, but your “friend of the family” is making stuff up — Never taken a test? Never written a paper? Bobby B slinging nothing but MFs and GDs throughout practice? That “friend of the family” has some imagination!!
Bobby’s not a saint and FSU has it’s problems like most places, but just wildly making up stories does no one any good.
These comments prove a lot of folks are just plain jealous of college coaches. Write a story on Bowden and every coach out there gets accused of something.
“Im at UF and 2 years ago I had a class with 8 football players in the class. One is a friend from high scholl and I wont give his name because he is still on the team and will be a senior and I get wasted with him some times, but never during the season. They went to class on the first day only and the 3 times there were test. I asked him how he was gonna pass and he told me they didnt have to go to school because they already had the 3 test to study from and the TA did not take roll anyhow. They told the players not to get a A and miss 10-15 questions on purpose so nobody could say nothing but everyone already knew whats up anyhow. I asked him for a copy of the final but he said no because he could get in trouble. I heard they all got b’s without going to class and taking notes and I got a c and I went to almost every class. Thats not fair and I think most schools let players get answers to test and pass around handouts with the important stuff on it and many players cheat too”
I don’t know Mr. Bowden personally so I can’t comment on his character. I do know that you’re reputation can be largely based on the people that work for and under you. If my livelyhood was based on how my players performed on and off the field, I would be keeping a much better eye on them or get somebody I trust to do it for me. Fool me once…
What happened at FSU goes on everywhere. FSU should be reprimanded for turning themselves in. I agree w/ Rattler Nation….Terri Moore looks like he dropped out of high school
To ACC, I don’t why your coming down so much on the UGA coaches, first of all Richt has not broken any kind of NCAA rules and best I recall neither did Dooley & Goff, except for tht Jan Kemp fiasco. Also,I doubt if Coach Butts needed to do any type of cheating, he just won games the old fashioned way, but then again you are from the ACC!!!!!!
Who the heck is this Terence guy? And what does he know about FSU? He lumps all the players who have played at FSU as being bad. Well, there are players like: Derrick Brooks, Warrick Dunn, Charlie Ward, Myron Rolle, Casey Weldon, Brad Johnson, Peter Boulware, Chris Weinke, and I can go on and on … all great people.
Coach Bowden is a religious man of great moral and decent character. Obviously, this Terence guy has no clue as to what he writes about, and the AJC is nothing but a rag.
I think the most bothersome theme running through these blogs is that instead of individuals admitting there was a problem and appreciation that the problem had been found and was being corrected, to the benefit of both the university and all of its students, they find it more appealing to simply attack other schools, whether warranted or not. Yes, every school has had it problems, and some schools may have “gotten away” with some things, but the objective should not to see what you can slip by the NCAA, but to make your university and its athletics department something to be proud of. I realize that sounds simplistic but it is true. On one of the entries someone spoke of the “Jan Kemp fiasco.” That could not be further from the truth, as hated as she was at the time, Jan Kemp is one of the best things that happened to the University of Georgia and its athletic department. The changes that were made in response to Jan Kemp’s allegations have made Georgia a much more attractive destination for all students, not just student athletes, and by the way, we still field respectable teams in all sports, with the exception of basketball, which is still recovering from the cheating scandal when Herrick was coaching at UGA. FSU will have to go through the same recovery period and hopefully will come out the other side a better university.
Thanks for that response. The three employees who invited the student athletes to cheat were not even employees of the athletic department, and as many have said, FSU self reported this violation, and suspended EVERY player that they found had cheated on the on-line course. That cost FSU not only the 2007 Music City Bowl, but far more important, it probably cost them last season’s conference game against Wake Forest. Should FSU be penalized for this incident? Of course. But c’mon AJC, if you’re going to comment at all, at least get your facts straight.
to k-dog—-look up 1943, when UGA was penalized $500 ( stiff penalty then ) because of Butts playing ineligible players-his excuse-”we couldnt compete because we didnt have enough players. As for Dooley and Goff, UGA received 2 years probation for illegal recruting. Players that didnt pass their entrance exam. Harrick was a real winner, and if it hadnt been for Jan Kemp seeing the players that had flunked and were ineligible and playing in the news years bowl game, then going back to school, checking and seeing that the grades had been changed, then UGA still be up to it-as Munson said ” got to win at all costs”
Terence Please get a grip. How about you take a look at your darling Notre Dame before you start casting stones.
I guess its just convenient to see “FSU Scandal” headline on ESPN and to make your own conclusion instead of actually doing the research.
Somehow overlooked in all of this is that FSU actually self reported this information and suspended all of the 61 students involved.
I walked on as a freshman at FSU, do you REALLY believe that these coaching staffs know EVERYthing that goes on with its players?? If you do, you have NO idea about how things work in the real world.
Some of you people casting stones are probably the same people that believe that your sons and daughters in college are at home studying on a Sat. night.
Get real, college kids cheat, drink, party, and all other things that 18-21 year olds do. No different at FSU. (Yes Gator Fans, even Tim Teabow) Oh yeah Dawg fans, I dont remember our QB underage drinking and spooning another dude at some redneck race.
How quickly this Gator homer forgets about UF’s past transgressions. Worst part is, I see this guy on t.v…. he’s so fake. F-a-k-e. I’m sure he’s met Bobby too and was “real” with him, i.e. calling him Saint Bobby and other unprofessional insults. It’s primarily why this guy writes for the AJC… a nobody blog that a bone head x-football player could write for.
Anywho, the UF program should of been disbanded after Charlie Pell committed 107 NCAA infractions, i.e. paying players cash, illegal practices, spying on other teams. I mean, the Turds wrote the book on cheating. Hell, the SEC stands for So, Everybody Cheats…
In sum, this guy and all Turds are scum. Dirty Jacksonville scum…
Whoever mentioned that Bobby is an act and that at practice he swears more than anyone has NEVER been to a FSU preactice OR KNOWN ANYONE that has been to a FSU practice. That is a straight up lie. L-I-E.
While as an FSU fan and alumni I am disappointed at what happened I will tell you that from going their and knowing many players I never saw any cheating. I did see waaaaaay more help than normal students get, but then again many of the players frankly needed it more.
They are football players, with a goal of going to the NFL not Harvard. For most school is something they have to do to get to the league. If any of you think FSU is any different than your school of choice you are very naive.
As for the reporter on this story he may need some academic help himself, the NCAA report said NO COACHES had knowlege or any part in this sad affair.
Cheap way to try to make a name for yourself as a reporter, attacking a beloved sport figure.
Bottom line is that FSU will win it’s appeal with the NCAA and nobody will remember this issue by August. Second, 50 years from now people will remember Bobby Bowden for the great man and coach he was, nobody will remember Terence Moore.
By the way FSU diehards. Look back to the days at UF when Charlie Pell and Galen cheated. What happened? Their wrists were not slapped. The program was penalized very harshly by the NCAA. Many…many…many high school All-Americans and great college prospects reneged on the Gators, and a dynasty was born…guess where. FSU. No one whats to remember that. I have never read about in any sports page anyhwhere. Hey if the Gators get caught cheating, sock it to them, just do the same to “Saints” as you do to the Aint’s.
Do you all realize FSU turned themselves in for this? The only the the NCAA did was add one more year of losing scholarships and stripping the wins. The rest FSU imposed on the themselves. I am a FSU grad and had classes with Peter Boulware, Tra Thomas and quite a few more. They were in more classes than I was. You bring up Coles, he got kicked off the team, same with Moss, Rock Preston and more. UGA and UF seem to take it as well they didn’t do it on the field. As soon as the school found out what was going on they suspended the players. Much less it takes the NCAA 2 years to come up with their findings for something FSU, again, turned themselves in for? If they hadn’t when would we have heard of this 2012?
It’s not self-reporting when you have to re-issue your self report to the nCAA THREE times because the first only had TWO football players on it and the second a few more and the 3rd even more.
That’s called covering up for the football program while self-reporting.
The NCAA knew better and thus FSU had to re-issue the report multiple times.
For those bringing up Tank Black, UF self-reported that situation and was commended by the NCAA for how they handled the situation and their transparency in it. Not covering up like FSU did.
FSU fans are so quick to say well “everybody does it” or bash TMoore for his points in the article hwoever if he wrote the exact same thing about the same situation at UF or Miami you hypocrites would prech his words as the gospel.
Only a can fan would include the “N” word. There is no need for that here. Act like an adult. Let me guess, you didnt go to Miami did you? Didnt think so….I hqave never actually met a Miami fan that went to school there.
Terrence: I have never written a post giving you a hard time. I don’t always agree with what you write but usually enjoy reading your insight. I’ve never bought into others claims that you aren’t truly a journalist or that you never get the facts right. I’ve been willing to give you the benefit of the doubt – UNTIL NOW. This article represents sheer bias and profound laziness. There are so many inaccuracies it wasn’t worthy of being printed. Did you conduct any research? I will now read everything you write with a grain of salt.
#1 The cheating DID NOT involve staffers in the athletics department. The cheating involved three tutors in the Academic Assistance Department which has absolutely no reporting structure to the Athletic Department. In fact, I believe the AAD reports to the Dean of Students. It is specifically set up that way to avoid any ability by the Athletics Dept to exert pressure on the Academic Depts.
#2 The NCAA itself recognized that the coaches and administration at FSU had no knowledge of the cheating that was going on. They agreed that the coaches did nothing wrong and as soon as the University and the Athletic Dept learned of the problem they immediately self-reported and began investigating.
#3 There was absolutely no intent of covering anything up. The University immediately hired an independent third party to investigate the full details of the matter.
#4 You try to suggest in your article that this is a Football Program problem. You make a weak attempt to clarify that the 61 athletes were in 10 different sports but call it a “slew” in the football program. I didn’t see you mention Leonard Hamilton or the Track & Field Coach. Certainly, just a blatant attempt on your part to attack Bobby Bowden. Just to be clear – 61 athletes, 10 different sports.
#5 Who are the FSU Officials that you quote as saying it would be unfair to strip 10 wins from Bobby Bowden? Name the person. Who was your source quote from? The simple fact is – that wasn’t the quote. The quote is more similar to the fact that the University has agreed to nearly all aspects of the penalties imposed by the NCAA. In fact, most of the penalties that FSU were already self-imposing were simply adopted by the NCAA including probation and scholarship reductions. The one penalty they did not agree with was the vacation of wins from any sport. The disagreement stems from the fact that the athletic programs did not knowingly play any ineligible players. As soon as the potential of any player becoming ineligible was brought to their attention, the athletes were suspended and not allowed to play. The NCAA is stating that as soon as the infraction occurs the player becomes ineligible whether the University knows it or not and therefore, if they play in a game the game must be fofeited. That flies in the face of any precedent ever set by the NCAA. Reggie Bush received a house. At that moment, whether the University knew about it or not, he became ineligible and any game that he played in after the fact should be forfeited. The NCAA hasn’t required that of USC. Why? They’ve made up a new rule for FSU that says it doesn’t matter if you knew or not, they were ineligible and you must vacate those wins. That’s ridiculous. Let’s be clear: The NCAA is settign precedent here at the expense of FSU and it directly contradicts its rulings on similar matters in the past. As soon as FSU knew about the issue they took immediate actions to investigate and rectify. The NCAA even agreed that the coaches did nothing wrong. Requiring a vacation of wins under those circumstances makes no sense. Had FSU had any knowledge that the players were ineligible and still played them – then they should forfeit. But, without that knowledge and with the NCAA saying the coaches did nothing wrong, then the requirement to forfeit wins is ridiculous.
#6 Long silence after Derrick Gibson’s arrest and charge would be called due process and respecting the players right to privacy. Maybe he was also operating under the assumption of innocent until proven guilty.
#7 You act like no other organization in college football gives players second chances. Bowden’s stance has always been to help rehabilitate a player after making a stupid mistake rather than kicking them to the curb taking away the biggest motivator they have to staying in school and being a good citizen.
#8 instead of taking your opinion on Bowden, maybe I’ll listen to the scores of former players and coaches that still call him for advice. Maybe I’ll think about the following when forming my opinions of Bowden:
The College Football Hall of Fame changed its rules a few years back so that it could induct Bobby Bowden while he still was in active coaching. They did it to show how much he means to the sport.
The Fellowship of Christian Athletes delivers a national award each year, and they call it The Bobby Bowden Award.
Just three months ago, the National College Football Awards Association presented Bobby Bowden with its Contributions to College Football Award. According to the organization, it was “presented to recognize the exceptional contributions to college football and a lifetime of achievement and integrity.” Only seven people in the world have received that award – Bobby Bowden is the only active coach on the list.
Yeah, maybe I’ll listen to those opinions instead of a hack that calls himself a journalist. Wow!! I don’t even have your credentials and access yet I was able to conduct this research. Maybe you should try a little research yourself.
Haha. All my players do is drink beer, get in fights, and smoke weed- like normal college kids. Even if FSU wins their appeal, this and all Bobby’s non-division 1 wins will forever taint his record. I’m sitting pretty in Happy Valley!
In reply to Choke at Doak. How many times hav the Seminoles lost hope of a national title because of their play against the Gator? Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose. FSU fans never remember the “lose!
Worked several of Coach Bowden’s summer football camps. Never heard Coach Bowden in all the time I have been around him use cuss words. Somebody is telling some big time lies on here. Tell me a university that is not having some problems, some major, with their student athletes. Let those without sin and who live in the glass house cast the first stones…..
Poor old Terence. He just can’t get over Notre Dame not being able to win the most important game of the season back in 1993. That game being the next game against Boston College after ND beat FSU in South Bend when the Noles were number 1. He takes every opportunity he can to bash FSU, even when he doesn’t even bother to get the facts right in his articles. Terence states above that it was staffers in the athletic department that provided answers to tests and typed papers. If Terence had done proper research (like read the NCAA report), he would have found that 6 years ago T. K. Wetherell separated the athletic-academic support department from the athletic department and has them report directly to the academic side of the school. In other words, Bowden has absolutely no say in how his players are tutored or how they register for classes or how their academic progress is monitored. These violations had nothing to do with employees of the athletic department; only emloyees of an academic department. No coaches were implicated as noted in the NCAA’s report.
SomewhereinGA – I do not believe that your FSU friend would make statements like that about his own program and that you, as his friend, would publicly repeat those words.
Ryan – Well spoken.
Terry Cloth – If you are really a student at UF, you should probably spend more time taking English classes and less time getting wasted.
warrick: suspended 3 games (lost the heisman because of this)
coles: kicked off the team
randy moss: never played a down of football at fsu because bowden kicked him out!
fred rouse: top rated prospect that got kicked out after freshman year
preston parker: kicked off the team!
get your facts straight and quit conveniently overlooking them to satisfy your column!
Terrence is getting flamed here as he should. Another example of bad reporting in modern media. It is sensationalized news like this and the story on how players are reconsidering their choice of schools that damages football programs and costs coaches their jobs. It is a shame the reporters can not be held as accountable as coaches maybe they would have a tutor proof read their articles.
In reply to Gatorsam. 1. 1997 when Jaquez Green burned us bad. 1996 doesnt count b/c yall should have never even played in that game. Those are the only two times I can remember FU standing in the way of us being in the National Cahmpionship game. Miami has ruined many more chances than the Gaytors
Headcoach at an institution this size don’t have time to grade test papers. If you lined up all the faculty and accademic staff at Fla. St. Bowden probably couldn’t name 2 out of the whole bunch. These headcoaches have so much demand put on their time they are usually the last ones to know what goes on around them. Same at every school. I do think with a story of this magnitude Terrance should have at least gotten a line in there from Bowden himself instead of relying on wire reports. Afterall it not only pertained to football but several sports at FSU.
ean…Coach Rob I doubt is going to come to UGA…but to asnwer your questions, yes, UGA has a ton of money to spend if they want to… and as far as if UGA is the better job….probably yes only becasue it’s a bigger school, more exposure, and much better recruiting area. I went to grad school at Oregon State, so of course I always want the Beavs to do well…that said I do believe UGA would be perceived by most as a step up. Just my $0.02.
Terrence- you are a sad journalist. This article is purely libel. Bowden was not involved at all, yet he is being punished and his name tarnished.
First “The cheating involved staffers in the Florida State athletics department providing athletes with answers to the test and typing their papers.” -Actually it was Academic Support staffers, who did not report to anyone involved in the Athletics Department. The NCAA report also states that “None of the Athletic staff was involved or the punishments would have been more harsh”.
You also fail to say that their were 300 students total involved in this class, 61 of which were NCAA athletes involved in 10 different sports.
The reason that FSU is appealing this action is because NO PLAYERS KNOWINGLY INVOLVED IN THE SCANDAL PLAYED as soon as the incident was reported. FSU made each player sit out for 4 games, including the bowl game versus Kentucky. Again this was a SELF-REPORTED VIOLATION to the NCAA. FSU was being pro-active and followed the guidelines set by the NCAA in handling this matter.
FSU is on probation now, sure. SO IS BAMA and OU!!! We are all able to play on TV and in Bowl games. FSU loses 2 scholarships which tend to go to walk-ons annually.
Oh thanks for the info. I meant lateral move in terms of conference and history mostly. I do hear that Coach Rob has been putting pressue on the AD here to get practice facilities and a court dedicated to basketball practice. K
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Bow Wow
February 25th, 2009
10:53 am
Colleges should voluntarily ban the speed suits? It won’t happen. I wonder when high schools will get around to testing players for growth hormones? When there is a plethora of 16-year-olds who are 6′6″ and weigh 300 pounds, there is something screwy going on.
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Terence Moore
February 25th, 2009
11:06 am
Bow Wow,
You’re absolutely right about the high schools. There is a serious problem there as well. Since there is so much concentration on the pros, which is natural, the lower levels are getting ignored.
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gt fan
February 25th, 2009
11:18 am
if we went by YOUR thinking ..
tiger woods is cheating and each and every club in his bag is illegal!
technological advances are one thing but drugs and doping are a whole diff ball game. you need to separate the two!
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Sports Fan
February 25th, 2009
11:23 am
This is a dumb article. When I play sports, I want the best equipment available to allow me to perform my best. If the proper authorities have not deemed it illegal then its not cheating. Don’t go around accusing the athletes of cheating when you’re really upset at the NCAA authorities for not banning the equipment.
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MoMizzle
February 25th, 2009
11:24 am
You know absolutely nothing about swimming. If you were in the least involved with the sport of swimming you would realize that the new generation swim suits are nothing like performance enhacing drugs. It just so happens that it increases your body buoyancy and it makes you feel better in the water. Stop blaming the sport for this called “silliness” and focus on steroid using MLB players and NFL criminals. If swimmers are staying three to a room is because it has always been that way, since the early years in club swimming, you try to cut costs so you can afford the top notch technology. Sorry, swimmers are not like college football players who stay at the best hotels with all you can eat shrimp/steak. The GT swim team probably works the hardest out of anyone and in no way shape or form do they cheat. By the way, get you facts straight, it’s not the Michael Phelps suit. It is made by Speedo and worn by many athletes. Do your research first, and if your not invloved in the sport at all, please stay away from it.
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shawn
February 25th, 2009
11:27 am
Hey why not require small wooden rackets in tennis too…lol
You really are an idiot.
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chuck allison
February 25th, 2009
11:34 am
I don’t get it. Are the suits illegal or does Terrance just think that they should be illegal because they are expensive? Like his other articles, this one is hard to understand. AJC should hire someone to proof read Terrance articles to be sure they are okay before they publish them.
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Bo
February 25th, 2009
11:43 am
Terence:
I have a serious question for you. By what rule is GT’s (or anyone else’s) use of these swimsuits illegal or CHEATING? Cheating means that you’re violating a rule. Please reference a rule.
Also, what about the (GT) baseball team’s use of aluminum bats? Those bats have a greater impact on its sport (HR, BA, RBI) than the new swimsuits have on its sport. Will you also declare aluminum bats cheating?
Your headline is wrong and sensationalistic. Once again I ask, does the AJC employ editors? Clearly not, as your incompetence wouldn’t be tolerated.
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Russell0931
February 25th, 2009
11:49 am
???? Terrance, you are still a ding dong.
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Chris
February 25th, 2009
11:55 am
This is in no way related to performance enhancing drugs. Advances in technology is the way of the way of the world. This is why the NCAA switched to aluminum bats instead of wood. Track shoes are constantly becoming more sophisticated. I also hate your arguement about it is unfair to those schools who can not afford the suit. Football recruits always pick schools who have the state-of-the-art training facilities. Smaller schools can not compete with larger schools’ athletic budgets. These schools always have better equipment. I don’t hear you crying foul against the NCAA for not mandating that each school have the same training equipment in their gym. I don’t see you complaining that UT Chattanooga can’t afford the bats that UGA or Rice use. Money is what seperates great athletic programs from the poor ones. Not only can schools with money afford the best equipment but they can also hire the best coaches. When a product is available to all then the playing field is even. If a school can’t pay to keep up with the competition then they need to get out of the pool.
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Ryan
February 25th, 2009
12:00 pm
You’re an idiot, and you digust me for throwing around the word cheating like that.
“cheat – To violate rules deliberately, as in a game”
Which rule is being violated again? I guess wide receivers that wear gloves are cheaters too? What about baseball teams that can afford better bats than others, cheating? Are NASCAR teams that can afford better parts and more practice time cheating?
What a freakin moron. Although I guess you got what you wanted….more page hits. You apparently don’t care that it comes at the expense of your character. Real classy.
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Red Foreman
February 25th, 2009
12:06 pm
Blah Blah Blah… Are you doing Cynthia Tucker, Cause your starting to write like her!
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Michael Hickman
February 25th, 2009
12:09 pm
The San Francisco Chronicle has been cheating for years by offering leftist views of everything from politics to sports. Hmmm…. Just like the Atlanta Journal & Constitution. SFC is about to close it’s doors. Hopefully the AJC is on it’s way out as well. Intelligent people have real jobs that contribute to the growth of our country. The pseudo-intelligent attempt to write about what they do not understand. I think Mr. Moore is in this second class. I hope you have some useful skills, because the ones you are using now are becoming obsolete.
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Bill
February 25th, 2009
12:13 pm
Other things that are unfair based on Terrence’s logic:
– Today’s match-up in the 1st round of the Match Play Championship, Tiger Woods vs. Brendan Jones is unfair. Tiger makes way more money than Jones and his endorsement deals with Nike undoubtedly give him an edge in drivers, irons, wedges, putters, balls, tees, etc.
– UGA’s football team has way more money to spend than Georgia Southern on equipment like better cleats, better uniforms, better pads, better helmets, so that’s unfair.
– GT’s baseball series this past weekend against Lipscomb was unfair because GT has more money to spend on bats, gloves, practice facilites.
– It’s also unfair that I graduated college and have a full-time job and make money to support myself and my family, but the homeless guy that lives outside CNN Center has to beg for money.
We need to get Obama on this….
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Matt
February 25th, 2009
12:19 pm
The headline is outrageous, and the article isn’t far behind. To say they are cheating is a complete lie. They are doing everything in the rules and not even trying to go around the rules. These suits are completely legal. You make it sound like these COLLEGE ATHLETES are doing something wrong. Find something else Terence.
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willwc
February 25th, 2009
12:26 pm
It’s one thing to have to roll my eyes at the usual dreck written by Moore, but this is outright libel (by falsely accusing the Georgia Tech athletic department of cheating, when they have broken exactly zero rules).
It sure is going to be a shame when the AJC bites the dust.
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Russell0931
February 25th, 2009
12:27 pm
Hey, I am going to pull an Al Sharpton and demand an apology from the AJC and Terrance Moore. You have accused Georgia Tech of cheating when they have not. Who do you think you are, Lane Kiffin?
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AtlantaNative62
February 25th, 2009
12:35 pm
Are you kidding me? Is this a serious editorial? If it is, you clearly don’t understand what “life” lessons the Tech kids are learning. They are learning about competing at the highest level and about sacrifice. No one is handing these swimsuits to these kids. They are managing budget to make sure they have what they can afford to be as successful at their endeavor as possible. Would you expect the kids at Tech to use lesser computers to do their schoolwork simply because other schools can’t afford them? This is about tools and a swimsuit is just another tool. As long as those tools are legal in whatever endeavor you choose, you should be allowed to use them. Comparing swimsuits to steroids is just another example of how you simply don’t get how real competition works.
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Ken Stallings
February 25th, 2009
12:39 pm
Cannot agree with you on this one, Terence. It’s not cheating. Everyone clearly knows the suit the swimmers wear and it does not violate any rules. So, it’s not secret and it’s not a violation of any rules. It cannot by definition be called cheating.
It’s nothing more than better shoes, or better gloves, or bats.
Is a better weight room cheating? Is a water training pool cheating? These are but two of many devices in use at high end training facilities that not all schools can afford. Should they be banned?
Ultimately, your receipe stymies innovation. Eventually many training techniques and devices once unaffordable became standard at all schools. If you determine rules that prevent their use, then there is no incentive to create them.
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Jeff
February 25th, 2009
12:42 pm
I have a real problem with this whole notion that the suit is illegal and arguing about the cost. What if there were really expensive shoulder pads and helmets for football that allowed players to run faster? Are those illegal too? And the quantity of records broken and % by the suit is a horrible statistic to use. How many of the top swimmers in the world wore the suit who would realistically have broken a record this year? Probably in the 75% range like the percentage of records broken by those with the suit. And the shear number of records does not have to due with the suit, but with the fact that last year was an olympic year. There are always many more records borken in olympic years since it is the pinnacle of swimming, what all swimmers train to have their best performances for. And the cost, I don’t see us banning certain golf clubs from collegiate sports for cost because some schools cant afford them, or certain bikes from cycling because they are too expensive and aerodynamic. This suit falls within the parameters set out but international swimming. These kids and young adults still train their butts off for this sports. In football, baseball, basketball, if you need the best equipment (shoes, helmets, pads) to compete then the schools goes out and buys it, why not for swimming too?
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George P Burdell
February 25th, 2009
12:51 pm
Lay off the insults on Terrence. You can tell by his picture he has just a touch of Downs; we should be applauding his efforts at journalism, not breaking him down.
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Blowthewhistle
February 25th, 2009
12:52 pm
You wrote that this “suit that carried Michael Phelps to his Olympic fame.” So the suit carried the swimmer?
Here’s an idea, put Phelps in one lane, you toss the suit in the next lane with a healthy head start and see who/what wins.
The suit doesn’t make the man in this case.
What an idiotic topic for a column.
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you're joking, right?
February 25th, 2009
12:52 pm
Disgusting is what your accusation is. Cheating is what you’re doing to the AJC – as in robbing them of money for this crap.
Leave the article for the humorous display of your ignorance, but you need to change the headline immediately. Then call the folks over at GT and apologize.
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Ken Stallings
February 25th, 2009
12:53 pm
Terence, I do not agree with you at all. It isn’t cheating when a school adopts better quality equipment to train and perform. Not unless there’s a rule against it. For swimmers, the suits are not a secret. No one is trying to trick anyone. It isn’t like steroids or HGH where no one is sure what the root of the performance is.
Throughout history, big schools often secure better equipment that other schools may not initially afford. But over time, the equipment becomes standard. Alumni boosters contribute to their schools to finance improved training facilities. Are improved weight rooms cheating? Are water training pools cheating? Hardly!
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james
February 25th, 2009
12:55 pm
there’s a notable difference in performance enhancing drugs and performance enhancing equiment. the type of equipment one is using is outwardly visible for all to see. the allure of drugs has been that unless caught, their effects enhance the user and no one’s the wiser. if you have a problem with equipment then make separate leagues. a player’s true skill would certainly become more evident and i like the idea of that. i still ultimately feel banning equipment could become a slippery slope, especially with the pace of technology.
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TheAntiMe
February 25th, 2009
12:56 pm
Of course, you’re kidding, right?
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Tech student: this is absurd
February 25th, 2009
1:03 pm
I echo the rest of these comments. Mr. Moore I can not believe you go as far as to say Tech is CHEATING! I agree with the other person on this blog in that you owe an apology along the lines of Lane Kiffin’s. What an absolute disgrace to the ajc and it’s image as a legit newspaper. If this article is published I will stop supporting the AJC and only read Dave O’Brien’s blog.
This is true ignorance. I am starting to see a trend here from Mr. Moore. The perfect parallel to this is the Tiger Woods golf analogy. In essence the stance you are taking says that the game of golf was tarnished when players no longer used wooden clubs. It is the same with college baseball and aluminum bats.
How absurd. I am flabbergasted…..flabbergasted
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Another Tech Student
February 25th, 2009
1:16 pm
When the first player put cleats on the bottom of his shoes, was it cheating? How about the first time someone wore a a non-cotton jersey? Or when a football player first donned a helmet? Or when a first-baseman began using a differently-designed glove?
Well played Terrence, well played.
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mooreisafool
February 25th, 2009
1:20 pm
So we should return to leather helmets? Persimon drivers and shafts? Sports and athletes adjust to the changes in technology. There is a wide gulf between uses of advances in technology and performance enhancements through steroids etc. I weigh 300 pounds, you think if I put on a LZR is could break a world record? If I hit Tiger’s driver would it go 340? If I wore Chipper’s gloves could I bat .364? The argument is foolish.
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Steve
February 25th, 2009
1:22 pm
Explain to me again how playing within the rules is “cheating”?????????????????
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ben
February 25th, 2009
1:33 pm
This article takes the cake.
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Techie
February 25th, 2009
1:36 pm
And the AJC wonders why their circulation numbers are circling the toilet………..
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BankerDawg
February 25th, 2009
1:37 pm
As my name implies, I am a UGA alum, however, it is clear that Terrence Moore needs to apologize to the Institute as a whole and the Swim Team individually.
Comparing some so called “speed suit” to performance enhancing drugs is not only faulty logic, it is just plain laughable.
If Moore cannot discern the difference between illegal/banned substances and advances in technology related to sports-specific tools (bats, balls, gloves, speed suits, etc), then Mr. Moore is far worse off than I once believed.
Personally, I can’t believe this one made it to print, but, oh well.
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Mort Merkel
February 25th, 2009
1:38 pm
How’s come the type on your blog is so small?
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Maddog
February 25th, 2009
1:40 pm
Not a Tech fan here but this is absurd! The technology is there and it’s legal. I’m actually impressed that some teams are sleeping 3 to a room to save money. This should be applauded, not condemned. Hell, I slept 3 to a room until my older brother left for college. In these difficult economic times I would prefer they make sacrifices like room arrangements rather than increasing ticket prices and asking for more of the athletic budget. If the swimsuit technology is bogus, the consider:
1. Pole vault records with “high tech” poles.
2. Track events that are conducted on “high tech” synthetic surfaces.
3. Composite “high tech” tennis rackets the size of hula hoops.
4. Juiced-up “high tech” baseballs to increase home runs.
5. “High tech” baseball bats to improved batting percentages.
6. Tobaggon races in “high tech” units.
For that matter, I’m a much more efficient sales manager because of my “high tech” gadgets. The list goes on and on. Technology is a reflection of life. Rotary dials and party lines are a thing of the past, Terence, so move on.
In closing I’ll repeat, I admire the Tech mens team for making sacrifices (wow, Terence, 3 to a room – how barbaric) to gain the equipment to make them more competitive. Successful businesses do it every day. Good job, guys, and good luck in your quest for an ACC championship.
Go Dawgs, and in this case, go Water Jackets.
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Techie
February 25th, 2009
1:40 pm
A full set of football equipment for an individual player (Helmet + Pads + Uniform) can run up to $500 as well.
I guess next fall GT and UGA should take to the field in leather helmets and thick wool sweaters for padding.
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Maddog
February 25th, 2009
1:43 pm
Good one, Techie, I ditched my subscription in 2007. Just couldn’t quite convince myself to “donate” $146 per year for such drivel.
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red92s
February 25th, 2009
1:43 pm
No mention of UGA using LZR’s in the SEC championship, eh? Figures. Trash Tech, let UGA slide. Same ole’ AJC.
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Cedric
February 25th, 2009
1:44 pm
Moore – the Braves signed a Black player. Running out of ideas for columns? What are you going to do all summer?
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Wes
February 25th, 2009
1:48 pm
I believe that Terrence Moore is CHEATING on his BLOG!!! I have heard from a reliable source that Mr. Moore uses a “computer” to complete his writing assignments. These computers have things called “Spell Check” and “Dictionaries” that aid Mr. Moore in his writing abilities, therefore giving him an advantage over those who cannot afford a computer. The AJC should really step up and ban these “computers” because they are so expensive and that they provide an unfair advantage to its writers.
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Maddog
February 25th, 2009
1:50 pm
Watch out, Cedric!! The Braves have never had a black “Manager”, so don’t give him any ideas.
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Phil
February 25th, 2009
2:01 pm
Terence,
How can you look at yourself in the mirror after accusing and proclaiming at college program is a cheat? If I were Dan Rad, I’d be on the phone with your bosses quicker than you could blink. How exactly is Tech, or anyone else wearing these suits, cheating? They aren’t breaking any rules. They found a competitive advantage, but as long as it’s allowable under the rules, it’s not cheating. You most definitely owe some folks, namely Tech and the swim team, and apology. At minimum, you should get back on the blog and issue an apology there. In reality, some face to face time with Dan Rad and the swimmers is needed.
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Bo
February 25th, 2009
2:02 pm
Terence’s writing is not unlike a 4-person fatality crash on the Downtown Connector. Common sense suggests that onlooking is in no one’s best interest, but the carnage is strangely alluring.
You should re-title your column from “My Opinion” to “My Immolation”, as you are the only professional writer that torches themselves for the purpose of building an audience.
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Terrence is right!
February 25th, 2009
2:39 pm
Terrence, once again you are right on the money with your insightful article. These darn swimsuits should be banned! Imagine a college spending that kind of money on a sports contest. Just ridiculous. And not fair either! I say all swimmers who wear the speed suits should have to hit a bong one good time just before the start of each race. That should make things even. Except for Phelps, I think he can smoke up and still swim like a Tuna. I don’t know what we can do to make it fair for him to compete. Maybe make him wear his Olympic medals while he competes, that should slow him down some.
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Nate
February 25th, 2009
2:40 pm
I am now dumber and have a headache after reading this article. I should go get some Advil, oh wait, under Terence rules that would be cheating, maybe I should put a leech on my forehead instead. Or maybe I should go to the hospital to get a CT scan, oh wait again, that would be cheating according to Terence Moore because I have enough money to afford to go to a hospital and use a technological breakthrough.
Terence Moore, you should be ashamed and fired!!!!
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Mary Kay Woodworg
February 25th, 2009
2:50 pm
Mr. Moore, you are entitled to your own opinion, but the headline accusing these student athletes of cheating is out of line and should be removed. As the parent of a GT swimmer I am offended that you equate the use of these suits – which are a ‘legal’piece of equipment- to doping and steroid use. You owe an apology to the GT swimmers.
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dylan
February 25th, 2009
3:01 pm
terrence, it looks like you got moved down to the minors after the griffey fiasco. all i can say is ITS ABOUT TIME. i hope they keep giving you crap like this so you can’t screw anything else up. this story is like saying teams shouldn’t be able to wear “air jordan’s.” yes they are expensive and some would say they make you “like mike,” but all that really matters is how good you are as an athlete not your equipment.
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dylan
February 25th, 2009
3:02 pm
why dont you join the cast of “rome is burning” FOREVER. that way your all the way across the u.s. and you can hang with jim rome everyday, he’s a bigger clown than you are!!!
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GTmoney
February 25th, 2009
3:04 pm
Terrence Moore you should be FIRED!!!! no questions about it. You are one of the reason why the newpaper is doing so poorly!!!
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dylan
February 25th, 2009
3:05 pm
you are a clown
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Forrest
February 25th, 2009
3:07 pm
Stupid is as stupid does.
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Mary Kay Woodworth
February 25th, 2009
3:08 pm
If I wasn’t a parent of a GT swimmer I might ignore this ridiculously silly article, but your headline accusibg these student athletes of cheating is unforgivable. You owe these swimmers a peronal apology for impugning their character, and GT an apology for your libelous statement.
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Forrest
February 25th, 2009
3:09 pm
I can run faster then him. I can run like the wind blows.
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Maddog
February 25th, 2009
3:14 pm
I’m sure Asher has his reasons, and until circumstances prove him otherwise, I support his decision.
Just think back a couple of years ago with Danny Ware. Fewer and fewer touches each season and Brown and Moreno projected to dominate the touches the following season. Ware bolted for the NFL. I, like most, scoffed at his decision. That is, of course, until he was being measured for a Super Bowl ring after the Giants upset the Patriots.
I know, I know, he may not ever turn out to be a great running back, however, would he have truly helped himself for the pros had he stayed another year at UGA? Even the most cynical person would answer “no”?
Asher, best of luck to you.
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Jaded Jacket
February 25th, 2009
3:16 pm
Wow, you folks are ruthless. Offensive even. Everyone take a deep breath, hold it, hold it, now let it out. Feel better?
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Brewer
February 25th, 2009
3:18 pm
Yes we can Terrance, Yes we can!!! But seriously, lay off the “Spread the Wealth Kool-Aid”. I think your brains are gone.
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wxwax
February 25th, 2009
3:19 pm
Terence,
I don’t blame you for not responding much to people in your blog. I can’t believe how much hostility posters have here. It’s really ugly.
While I think I understand the point you’re making – that suits too expensive for everyone to afford create an uneven playing field — I’m not sure what the remedy is. To follow your logic, swimmers should still be wearing full length suits made of cotton, like in the 1920’s. Swimsuit technology has been evolving for decades. Sometimes there’s a hiccup in price/supply, but it’s going to be temporary. These Nike suits are relatively new. Someday, soon, they won’t be. And by the way, the USGS has been pondering club changes for how long? Decades? The two issues don’t seem to have a lot in common.
As for the comparing a swimsuit to performance enhancing drugs that could have serious, adverse health effects on athletes… well, on its face this is a plausible argument (even for a columnist who needs to be a little outrageous to get people reading and talking.
)
All the best, my friend.
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Daniel
February 25th, 2009
3:20 pm
Absolutely insane. I’ve now lost all respect for Terrence. I understand what your point is, but to present it as the swimmers are somehow cheating is not only poor “journalism” but borderline unethical. I guess it’s a good thing it came from Terrence instead of a respected writer. Atlanta is ashamed to play host to your ignorant ramblings.
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wxwax
February 25th, 2009
3:21 pm
I meant, “implausible argument”!
Oops.
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Bass_Iree
February 25th, 2009
3:24 pm
Terence you are absolutely pathetic. Your blogs serve no purpose other than insulting sports and giving a useless opinion to Rustle feathers. There is a reason you have not responded to these comments other than one of the first ones that somewhat agreed with you because I think it dawned on you how mental you really are. I also think most of these comments were put up because you pick a sport you obviously know nothing about, pick a topic about the sport you know nothing about, and then you write one lame a** article that wasted a lot of people’s time. Mr. Moore before you ever write a blog anywhere half as ridiculous as this one, get your facts straight and then maybe try and use your small brain to write a blog worthy of reading. Also being closely affiliated to the swim team, only one meet this whole season have the swim team had to sleep three to a room. Maybe you should transfer on over to the entertainment section of the AJC and do a blog of how unfair it is that richer families can afford to take their kids to casting calls and poorer families cannot. Or maybe you should just keep your mouth shut about topics you have no knowledge about.
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Mjacksongt
February 25th, 2009
3:39 pm
I count 1.5 posts in this article defending Terrence Moore. Out of 55. And both of those weren’t really defending him, just admonishing the others who commented on the hostility of the comments.
For me, I think you owe Tech an apology. This is a blatant hatchet job by you. The suits are within the rules, and competing at the highest level in swimming virtually requires them. The students who are on the swim team that are finding ways to pay for them without asking for more money should be commended, not slandered.
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Kyle
February 25th, 2009
3:44 pm
I don’t think I can add anything more than what the comments have already expressed. This is just a ridiculous article. I think you were trying to make a point about sleeping three to a room to save money to buy suits; however, you only showed how stupid your argument is in calling us cheaters because I’m sure other swimming programs from a larger or smaller school have the money in funds to not sleep 3 to a room and still buy the suits out right. So they’re “cheating” more than us I suppose… Only if I were being totally illogical about the whole situation.
Hey Terence, didn’t you say the triple option wouldn’t work this year? Oh ya, you’re that guy..
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Bow Wow
February 25th, 2009
3:45 pm
Allen, polite and soft spoken? I don’t think so. The Allen I remember was a hot dog who led the world in penalties and did a victory dance after giving up big chunks of yardage. Terrence must be writing about someone else.
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Patrick
February 25th, 2009
3:46 pm
Terrence, don’t write about things you obviously know nothing about.
Accusing Georgia Tech of cheating for wearing these suits is libel
Comparing the LZR to steroids is simply asinine.
Providing athletes with anything but the best the market has to offer (assuming it’s legality) amounts to neglect of the team. In fact, the crime here is not that Tech Swimmers wore these suits but that they had to stay two and three to a cheap hotel room to be able to do so. The restless night’s sleep they got as a result most certainly hurt them more than the suit helped the next day.
It is uninformed “authorities” like yourself who don’t understand why a swimming budget should provide the proper equipment for its athletes while they bend over backwards to roll out the red carpet for big name sports.
Would you approve if a track team only provided tennis shoes for it’s runners? If the cycling team rode on 100 dollar Wall-mart bikes because racing bicycles cost too much? If the football team used heavier, lower quality pads and helmets because of the price?
Colleges spend outrageous sums of money giving big name sports expensive equipment. They can most certainly afford to provide these swim suits to their swimmers. They simply have other priorities.
Furthermore, performance enhancing drugs (heavily tested for in swimming) provide an outside advantage to an athlete by building an unnatural amount of muscle without work. The athlete is innately better because he has taken an illegal substance.
These suits provide no “Enhancement” whatsoever to performance. An athlete wearing this suit is not stronger. He is simply wearing the suit that is best at eliminating drag (the goal of all speed oriented sports), thereby removing a negative outside impact upon his performance. If the suit was buoyant or had a motor built in, we would be having a different discussion.
The NCAA can’t ban this suit without banning every other competition suit on the market. For decades, swimmers have realized that drag hurts swimming performance greatly. This is why you don’t see us competing in swim trunks. The LZR is just one in a long line of past and future products that does its job well. These suits are painstakingly manufactured and as a result, they bear a high cost. That $550 you quote only looks unreasonable to those who nothing about the sport. Swimmers have been paying around that for top of the line suits for a decade.
To say, however, that a swimsuit is the reason swimmers have crushed world records recently is downright insulting. These athletes sacrifice their entire lives to be the best at the sport, constantly training and honing the newest, most efficient techniques.
It only makes sense to put a swimmer who wakes up at 4am for the first of two daily practices (while trying to get a degree in between) in a top of the line swimsuit, the one that will afford him the ability to perform his best. But the suit does not make the swimmer. The greatest benefit of any top of the line suit is the mental factor. They feel wonderful to wear in the water and help a swimmer to translate constant training into confidence in a race.
Perhaps the reason so many world records have been broken recently has something to do with the fact that swimming is currently dominated by a number of fantastic athletes, the likes of which we have never seen before.
Put Phelps or Lochte or Coughlin in fur coats and work boots and they will still swim world records. You could have put weights in Jordan’s shoes and he still would have flown.
The sport itself is getting faster because the science behind training, nutrition, and coaching has steadily improved. Today we can take the most talented, most dedicated athletes, and use the most sophisticated techniques to make them the best. But for any of that to work, expect 30 hours a week in the water and no days off from age 11. The suit is merely icing on the cake.
Next time you write something, learn just a little bit about the topic first. Just because you specialize in writing opinion articles doesn’t mean that you’re excused from knowing fact. Opinions are thoughts about information, not emotional diatribes without support.
Congratulations on spitting in the faces of dozens of young athletes who have a dedication and a work ethic that you will never know or understand. You might think you do if you played high school or college football or basketball or whatever. But trust me, these kids work way harder than any other non-pro athletes on the planet. Oh, and they’re getting a degree from Georgia Tech while they’re at it.
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Doug
February 25th, 2009
3:48 pm
First off, the swimsuits retail at $550 a piece for the model that covers most of the body, other models can be purchased at retail price for $350.00-$450.00. For example breaststrokers almost always use the version that does not cover the legs and arms, and it is $350.00 retail.
Secondly, everyone is always quoting the retail price. Speedo sells the suits to club swimmers at 70% off retail for national level swimmers if the club has a speedo contract. You need to talk to Stu about if Tech as an agreement with Speedo before you start quoting costs that are not real. And if the swimmers want to cut costs to the school to afford the suits, good for the swimmers. You didnt praise their thriftiness in the current bad economy, but no, an athlete from Tech can only “cheat” apparently.
Yes and thank you for accusing my alma mater of cheating. You did not include that Georgia’s mens and womens team wore Blue 70’s, another type of racing suit that costs as much at the SEC’s last weekend at Auburn. I did not see you accuse Jack or YOUR precious Dawgs of cheating.
It is totally your opinon that the speedsuits should be banned by the NCAA. Did I miss the article you wrote about the “cheating” of the major conference football teams when they changed to the more expensive helmets to prevent concussions. Or for the cost of the 100 Black jerseys that Georgia wore in some special game last year.
Lets see wearing a special swimsuit is equalivant to putting harmful chemicals in your body to achieve better results. Am I to assume that the magical powers of the suit are transferred to the individual permanently as with drugs?
Maybe you should learn something about swimming before you show your ignorance to the world in a column. I didnt see you at the US Nationals held at Tech in December. Please go back to writing about the Dawgs and the Braves. I think you owe the coaches and swimmers at Georgia Tech an apology, I know many of them, and for all their hard work you tar them with this piece of crap Mr. Moore.
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Doug
February 25th, 2009
3:49 pm
I couldnt of said it better Mary Kay, good for you.
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Katherine
February 25th, 2009
3:51 pm
I can’t stand Terrence in general – I don’t think he even wrote a favorable word about GT when we beat UGA fair and square in football in 2008. But Terrence, don’t throw around libelous statements like that without doing your research like a real reporter. AJC, this is too far for one of your writers to go. Absolutely absurd.
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MikeJ
February 25th, 2009
3:54 pm
Fix your font. Its so easy a 3rd grader could do it.
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Jackson
February 25th, 2009
3:58 pm
I wish the AJC would cut expenses by dumping Terrance Moore. He is always taking negative shots at UGA and any coach or GM that isn’t black.
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Causticus
February 25th, 2009
4:09 pm
Terene Moore => blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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spotts
February 25th, 2009
4:16 pm
Isn’t this headline about 2 months old?
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dylan
February 25th, 2009
4:31 pm
I’m not even a Tech fan and this pisses me off. Terrence is a CLOWN!!!
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ontheflats
February 25th, 2009
4:33 pm
Those who don’t “get it” don’t get that they don’t get it. Terence falls into the category of people who don’t get that they don’t get it.
Mr. Moore, I believe you owe the Georgia Tech swim team and their coaches an apology. But I’m going to guess by the nature of many of your previous columns that you don’t have the integrity to give one.
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Adawg
February 25th, 2009
4:34 pm
IF there was a “speed suit for journalist”, I’d buy one for you Terrence!
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dylan
February 25th, 2009
4:36 pm
Asher was good. Not great. I don’t remember him being that much of “splendid” kick returner, Prince Miller was much better, providing only highlight in the Bama game. And if he is so “splendid” as a kick returner why was Logan Gray the primary punt returner?
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dylan
February 25th, 2009
4:40 pm
hahahahahahah
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Not a Dawg fan
February 25th, 2009
4:41 pm
Hmm, he measured in at 5′9, 194 and only has 3 INTs in 24 starts. 4.47 was his unofficial time. He was slower than that in his official. He’ll be a second day choice in April’s draft. Good for him. Gotta bail on a sinking ship. 8-4 next year for the folks in Athens. And the whining begins…
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RED
February 25th, 2009
5:02 pm
You sir are an idiot. If thinking by your logic, then we should have all track athletes go bare foot. Not everyone can afford new shoes in this economy, and hey they improve a runners ability. So too do new types of running outfits. Or should we have competative skiers go back to the ski designs of 1910? Or how about the suits they wear? Or what about the bobsleds? Or possibly the football uniforms? You see, you like your writing, have a closed and outdated outlook. The sport is passing you by and so is the world. Jump on the train of progress or get off, I dont really care.
I would say your article smacks of Communistic rhetoric, but hey China would take the same steps as youu have implied Georgia Tech did. It is called the evolution of the sport sir. You and your backward thinking will prove the Darwanian model and disapear. So, I say adieu and let you embrace extinction.
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brian22
February 25th, 2009
5:07 pm
Terrance, think before you write. It’s one thing to watch you embarrass yourself day in and day out, but this is beyond disgusting.
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Hillbilly Deluxe
February 25th, 2009
5:31 pm
Could you possibly make the font on your article a tad larger?
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Don Imus
February 25th, 2009
5:37 pm
Terrence Moore = Don Imus.
Both folks who don’t mind calling hardworking 18-22 year old kids a bunch of names.
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D A Kinney
February 25th, 2009
6:04 pm
You should just resign for ignorant NON-reporting….this is garbage! Consider this a slander towards Georgia Tech and consider my just one more cancelled subscription to this so-called regional newspaper!
T. Moore….learn how to write articles and maybe start at the high school level again because that is the equivalent of your writing!
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Give me a break
February 25th, 2009
6:11 pm
Maybe the Tech swim team should stop obsessing over these swim suits and spend some more time in the water practicing! It does not matter what suits they wear they are not going to make enough time to beat North Carolina or Georgia. And if they did, then Ugag would prob spend some of its millions of dollars and buy the entire team and its managers a pair
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red92s
February 25th, 2009
6:24 pm
UGA can afford in indoor football practice facility. Tech can’t. Cheaters.
How much does a nice pair of basketball shoes run these days? I bet a lot of programs can’t afford top of the line ones. Cheaters.
Arizona has real grass in their domed stadium. Cheaters.
OSU is getting a bailout-sized contribution from T. Boone for new athletic fatalities. Oklahoma didn’t. Cheaters.
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Warren
February 25th, 2009
6:27 pm
Terence, someone at the AJC should wise-up and ban you. I’ve been reading your poor excuse for a sports page for over 40 years, and you are, by far, the worst reporter that I have ever read. The sad part is that your actually arrogant, which shows just how ignorant you are. There is only one person, in my life, that I can say I actually dislike from just reading their column, and that is you.
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Refrigeratormover
February 25th, 2009
6:30 pm
Once again Terrance you show your ignorance. I know your trying to compete for space in the Atlanta Urinal and Constipation but this is one of your worst attempts to take a stab at GT.
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mojoman
February 25th, 2009
6:40 pm
Damn Good Dawg. Thanks Asher and Good Luck.
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tz
February 25th, 2009
7:31 pm
Is definitely not a GREAT kick returner…Average at best…Probably going fifth or sixth round…Supremely stupid for coming out early…Another dumb #@$# column by the hack Terence Moore…
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Gobat
February 25th, 2009
7:40 pm
Unfortunately, Terrance, you obviously do not have any idea what you are saying. Coming from someone who was at Women’s ACC’s last week, there were NO girls sleeping three to a room last week, and EVERY school had some form of a second generation suit, whether it be the LZR or the Blue Seventy. Obviously it was not too hard for the schools to get the suits they needed. It is absolutely ridiculous for you to suggest that the swimmers at Georgia Tech are just cheating their way into victory, (congratulations to the GT Men’s 200 medley relay). If you had any idea of what the swimmers at GT were doing, you would know that they have been working hard all season to swim fast at ACC’s and shame on you for saying that they have been cheating. I personally believe you owe them an apology and should do a little more research before you slander someone else.
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El Presidente
February 25th, 2009
7:42 pm
Terence, The GT Swim team should sue you for libel. You accusations are shameful and down right lies. The swim team has broken no NCAA rules. Do you even know what “cheat” means?
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Jeremy
February 25th, 2009
7:43 pm
At first I thought this was satire. Wow, you are an idiot and you know nothing about swimming.
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Lake Country
February 25th, 2009
7:51 pm
I would feel like the biggest idiot in the world if I continued to read a column only to put down the guy who writes it. If you don’t like it don’t read it!
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B-RoadLee.
February 25th, 2009
7:52 pm
I agree with Jeremy. When I first read this article I thought it was a joke. I don’t think I’ve ever read anything more ridiculous in my life. I seriously hope you weren’t paid a prodigious amount of money for writing this drivel because you obviously took no time in researching your subject. Swimmers devote their whole lives to this sport and men’s collegiate swimming championships is something men work years towards perfecting and preparing for.
Next time you want to make yourself sound like a complete a total waste of humanity, try not to slander and falsely accuse one of the hardest working teams in the ACC, you idiot.
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Speedo
February 25th, 2009
7:52 pm
Thanks for doing more PR work for us, like every ignorant journalist who needs an angle to write about swimming because “these young men work their brains out” isn’t good enough.
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Ken Stallings
February 25th, 2009
7:57 pm
It really is tedious to read the same people posting racist and insulting responses to every Terence Moore column.
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gt fan
February 25th, 2009
8:09 pm
hey terrance i have a question for you.
why is it that you dog on the jacket swim team for cheating (never mind that you have no basis for that claim) but you keep quite on paul hewitt and what he has done to the georgia tech basketball program. And the only way we can rid ourselves of this suite wearing dead weight is to bankrupt our entire AA.
meanwhile paul hewitt seems to be just fine according to your patty cake interview. did any difficult questions just not come to mind? he has no trouble sleeping at nite even though his performance over the last 4 years is far worse than bobby cremins last 4 years. And bobby was gracious enough to not hold our feet to the fire when he left….. unlike phew will do .
let me get this straight……….after having 3 losing seasons and an one underachieving season over the last 4 seasons. setting records for losses as we go AND paul hewitt is admitting that has never recruited this hard? say wha? 3 losing seasons over the last 4 an he didnt have a clue that maybe he needed to work a bit harder AND SMARTER like 3 years ago maybe????? do something different? to quote a movie ‘ hello mcfly is anybody home?’
paul hewitt hasnt made a single change to his program over the last 5 years. same offense. same defense. same method of instructions. same coaches. same long tall black athletic players that have little bb iq are generally slow and not good ball handlers. i guess paul hewitt is finally deciding that enough is enough after 4 years. him being the decider and all. we certainly cant accuse paul hewitt of having any sense of urgency re the georgia tech bb program.
with a contract like the one paul hewitt has i guess he can say ‘ what me worry’.
terrance i think that if you want to write a REAL relevant article i suggest you write about why a coach would ruin the very basketball program that made him a millionaire. after all, its not like gt has treated paul hewitt poorly. even though he should have been canned last year, he just got the ad’s vote of confidence
yet…. he runs our program with nonchalance and cavalier attitude and makes no apologies about it. ask him hard questions and we are met with anger and arrogance.
does that sound like a man of integrity to you?
anybody?
yes folks i think we have a basis for a multi part article. anybody else like to see terrance interview THE paul hewitt? And maybe ask some tough questions?
i know i would!!
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Ken Stallings
February 25th, 2009
8:13 pm
Terence, I hope and believe you can see the difference between trolls and good folks with sincere and deep-seated disagreement. Calling a program cheating requires a lot of hard prove, none of which you can have because of the facts stated. You’ve genuinely insulted a lot of people. Frankly, having read the responses, you really should consider an apology.
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Cheaters
February 25th, 2009
8:21 pm
It’s closer to cheating that you had to report on another article instead of doing your own research. I think it’s great that these swimmers are making personal sacrifices to get the equipment they desire instead of asking someone else to pay for it. I don’t expect you to understand making personal sacrifices instead of asking for something for nothing.
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Brandon
February 25th, 2009
8:21 pm
Mr. Moore, how is it a good choice when a college student drops out of college?
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PN
February 25th, 2009
8:24 pm
Oh Terrence. Go to school. Get an education.
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frmrgtswmr
February 25th, 2009
8:40 pm
I have never read anything so ignorant. You are accusing someone of cheating when you don’t know what you are talking about. FINA has approved the suits for competition, they are legal, and that is cheating? It’s unfrotunate that people are even reading this and wasting their time responding to someone so dillusional. You should go and hide in embarrasment, because you have lost all of your credibility.
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Cheaters
February 25th, 2009
8:51 pm
I think Allen cheated. How can he leave early for the NFL when every other player can’t? Some players will actually have to return for their senior season. It just isn’t fair. I wonder if Allen took any performance enhancers to get that 40 time. Oh and there is a reason that he ran his slowest time at the combine. It’s the only accurate measure he has ever had.
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gp295
February 25th, 2009
8:51 pm
Should make a good pro player coming from the sec going against the best wide out in college.
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President of Matt Diaz Fan Club
February 25th, 2009
8:53 pm
Terrence – I know my observation is redundant, but man, people really do release their passive aggressive racist feeling on this blog. How sad; for them!
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President of Matt Diaz Fan Club
February 25th, 2009
8:54 pm
feeling(s) – my bad. The (s) is important.
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Cheaters
February 25th, 2009
8:58 pm
The entire uga team cheats having an indoor pracitce facility. Not all schools can afford that for their players. If Allen benefitted from it, then he should not be allowed to profit from football. He, Stafford, and Moreno should have to return because of this cheating.
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heeldawg
February 25th, 2009
9:01 pm
Asher is indeed a polite, intelligent, well-spoken young man who would do well in any arena he elects to compete in. My only regrets are that he could have been an even higher draft pick next season (after what would likely have been an All-SEC year) and that he really should have completed his college education to prepare himself for life after football.
And for all of you Georgia detractors predicting a horrible (i.e. 8-4) record for the Dawgs next season, consider this: Tech went 9-3 and it was considered an amazing season. For Georgia, 8-4 is considered a disaster.
Only one such “disaster” on Coach Richt’s watch, and that was a long, long time ago. This Georgia team will be better than last year’s. They may not win the MNC or the SEC, but they will be a better team than the star-studded collection of players whose minds were already on the NFL last season. This bunch will be hungry. They’ll be ready. They’ll hit you in the mouth.
Enjoy your hour in the sun, Jacket fans. It ends next November.
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Cuz
February 25th, 2009
9:05 pm
Did Mark Richt sneak in that indoor practice facility when no one was looking?
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Cheaters
February 25th, 2009
9:07 pm
Umm, this year would be a “disaster” for uga. From preseason national champs to second in the state. Then Corky, Slowshon and allen left to not repeat high expectations with terrible results.
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gt_blume
February 25th, 2009
9:14 pm
Cheating appearntly means that a school is competing in a sport using something that they can afford to make them better but that their competition cannot afford…therefore, Alabama Footballis a bunch of cheaters because they bought the most expensive coach to make them better. UGA football is a bunch of cheats too! Salary caps for coaches! No more cheating!
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The Sham
February 25th, 2009
9:20 pm
Mary Kay Woodworth: Accusing GT of cheating is like accusing Mel Gibson of being drunk. It’s happened in the past so much you can’t help but think of cheating when you hear of the Yellow Hackets. Are y’all off probation yet anyway? Besides don’t use all those big words if you can’t at least spell them correctly.
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Cheaters
February 25th, 2009
9:29 pm
4.16 = the average number of years between uga probations….you are due. let’s try to keep the number of arrests below the number of wins in ‘09 leg humpers.
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Johnny DangerDawg
February 25th, 2009
9:36 pm
Terence, you said some nice things about Asher, but you gave no explanation as to why he was better off leaving now instead of next year.
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Kelly
February 25th, 2009
9:38 pm
TM,
Your comment is factually inaccurate. You should look up the word cheating in the dictionary before writing this type of article. In your logic, UGA should not have an expensive coach, staff or facilities, as that is not fair to a school with less opportunity.
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REALLY?!
February 25th, 2009
9:45 pm
Since when is staying in the Sheraton Four Points a cheap hotel? … I’m pretty sure that it’s a little more than $79. And since when is flying to UMD cutting budget costs? Great article … Your article is outright laughable.
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Economist
February 25th, 2009
9:49 pm
Everytime I waste my time (that I will never get back) reading a article written by Moore, I understand why the AJC and other newpapers are failing. Seriously, where is journalistic integrity?? Cheating? What rule was broken?? If you did research, you would know that many of uga’s swimmers wear the same thing. I know that I’m just upping your read and vlog count, but man, this is rediculous to slander 18-22 year olds for using something perfectly legal to compete. I guess swimmers with hair shouldn’t be allowed to wear swim caps?
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Katherine
February 25th, 2009
9:54 pm
Did anyone notice that the article’s title changed this afternoon in the midst of all these comments? Funny thing is, the URL address did not…
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Analogies is not you T
February 25th, 2009
10:14 pm
Wearing swimsuits that glide through water better than others does not equal steroids. If you had a brain, you would know the big knock on steroids in the pros is that it is dangerous and encourages or forces high school athletes to use the same to compete. These swimsuits are not dangerous, but would be analagous to a team having an indoor facility or better aluminum bats. Please TMoore, take the next early retirement package and leave the kids or should I say white kids alone.
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Randy Randolph
February 25th, 2009
10:26 pm
Cancel my subscription now and I will use the money I save to buy you a set of water wings. You’ll need the support because you have ventured in way over your head with this cesspool of lies your spreading on the GA Tech swim team. You owe the team and school a retraction and an apology for earlier comments…. Not some sneaky edit to your pre-print byline, 10 hours after posting it on this blog.
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AugustaJacket
February 25th, 2009
10:32 pm
Mr. Moore,
Despite my desire to fall right in with many of the comments here on your column, I’ll do my best to be respectful. However, I admit it will be difficult. Well, who am I kidding?
Did you retract the original headline? I ask this since there is no mention of the word “cheating” in the version of the column I read here. It appears that many of the responders on here are referencing not only an insinuation of cheating by the swim team at Tech, but also an explicit headline and, perhaps, wording in the article that accuses the Tech swim team of outright cheating. I didn’t see that so I am forced to assume you edited it. Good for you (or your editors) for taking the first step. However, what you should do especially in this day and age of the electronic media is explicitly apologize for your accusation(s). My apologies if my assumptions are incorrect.
I realize that columnists like yourself attempt to make their living on the “controversial, hard-hitting” topics. This one was controvsersial, but hard-hitting? Please accept my apologies, but this was a huge swing and a miss.
It’s columns and apparent attitudes like this (and too many other examples to mention) that are the reason that many of the people out here in the real world view the media as arrogant, elitist and, apparently, “less than educated.”
- AugustaJacket
GT, Class of ‘97
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Casey
February 25th, 2009
10:34 pm
I’ve almost stopped reading the AJC altogether because every time I do, I see moronic drivel. This is especially poor journalism, and I’m officially finished helping the AJC with my mouse clicks and website hits.
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bairet
February 25th, 2009
10:34 pm
Over the past three years I’ve gotten to know Asher well. There are many things about him that the public doesn’t know like that he’s a devoted Jehovah’s Witness. His actions off the field are admirable and he will serve an NFL team well.
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GT @ GT
February 25th, 2009
10:36 pm
TM,
Were you an athlete, ever? Do you know the dedication that it takes to succeed in an endurance sport like swimming and track? Clearly not, I doubt you could even swim to save your life.
Swimmers give up countless hours, working as hard as the can, only to drop the slightest amount of time. However, sometimes people drop seconds instead of tenths. It happens all the time in the swimming world with and without next generation suits. All this hard work is second nature to them and what they stive on, just like ignorance is to you.
I am ashamed and embarrassed for you. How dare you. You clearly are just slandering those that accomplished what you never could…success in sports.
Anxiously awaiting your resignation,
Simply Disgusted
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ThaDawgdude
February 25th, 2009
10:37 pm
I don’t think its necessary to read every article by Mr. Moore then take shots at him. However, after reading a lot of these articles without personal comment I will say this- out of the established writers here at the AJC Mr. Moore is the least professional in his approach to covering these schools, athletes, and coaches.
He does seem to take a more negative stance towards UGA in particular, especially football. He gives negative connotation to his titles to grab peoples attention. The thing I wonder is whether it is sort of an understanding with the AJC that he takes this stance to sort of counter the general favoritism of the other writers, or if it’s to generate more of a following to compensate for his less than professional writing skills. Personally I believe that UGA followers are going to read this stuff no matter who writes it. I know I do.
Now I’m not saying that Mr. Moore is some horrible writer by any means. I am by no means a titled professional and he by all means is. Some of his material is nice and gets the point across well. I just don’t think that most of his material is very well written. For instance, “Allen did the right thing by bolting Georgia early. That other stuff doesn’t matter, beginning with this: He is considered the other guy not named Matthew Stafford or Knowshon Moreno among the latest Bulldogs leaving before the end of their eligibility in search of barking their way into NFL fame.”, this is very awkward writing and leaves me wondering what it is exactly that he is getting at. This statement is just kind of something that started as a point but faded into a run on sentence that never went anywhere. I find it hard to believe that someone with a literary educational background would write something like this. I mean honestly, I can easily write better than this and my degree is science related.
Just my thoughts. I hope Mr. Moore will improve the quality of his work so that the purpose of his material doesn’t get lost in the criticism.
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meansonny
February 25th, 2009
10:45 pm
Terrence… good topic. I don’t agree with your assessment.
Your quote, “He is considered the other guy not named Matthew Stafford or Knowshon Moreno among the latest Bulldogs leaving before the end of their eligibility in search of barking their way into NFL fame.”
The problem with that comment is that Asher isn’t even being considered right now. No media is noticing him.
I knew his freshman year talent that he’d be in the NFL. But I don’t think he has “earned it”, yet. He’s got more to prove before he cracks an NFL squad. I’m afraid that he might be a practice squad guy before he’s going to figure out what he needs to do to maximize his natural gifts for the NFL.
I wish him the best. I doubt that it was the right decision in terms of a 1st contract signing bonus (for some players, that’s their only signing bonus). But maybe in his heart and for his family, he feels this is the time.
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real life swimmer.
February 25th, 2009
10:50 pm
1) LZR racers are used by EVERY team at high level meets.
2) Georgia Tech doesn’t need to budget themselves with cheap hotel rooms. They’ve got enough money to run the CRC… Tech can afford to suit a team.
3) The swimmers at Tech are a fine exhibition of talent. If you throw a suit into a pool, it’s not going to set ACC records on its own. Have you considered the swimmer in the suit at all? Maybe the hours they put into their sport?
4) You should probably ACTUALLY go to swim meets. If you’ve ever seen a kid in a LZR that can barely make state, it becomes obvious that the swimmer makes the times, not the suit.
…
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real life swimmer.
February 25th, 2009
10:53 pm
Oh, and since when did Phelps cheat?
Weed just feels good… it doesn’t make you faster.
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Texstinger
February 25th, 2009
10:54 pm
Mr Moore,
Is this really the best you can do to attract more readers? I am sorry your career has turned in such a bad way.
The paper you are working for will soon be out of business. Don’t you think you should grow up and try to do something of worth with your miserable life?
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Obvious
February 25th, 2009
11:04 pm
Ok, you have changed the title many times today as readers have righted you. Unfortunately, people can still see the original title in the top of the IE window that states “Michael Phelps suit inspires Georgia Tech swimmers to cheat.” If you were a decent person, you would issue an apology on paper that you were wrong and slanderous. Maybe if the swimmers weren’t white this would be possible for you?
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Cleatus
February 25th, 2009
11:13 pm
Football players wear the best gloves (stickum) they can get. Basketball players wear the best shoes they can get (pump it up), and golfers use the best clubs and balls they can get. Unfortunately, only whiteys swim so therefore they cheat when using the best equipment. Is this really your argument Tmoore? If so, you need more material. Please try to read outside articles other than your bosses or colleagues. Your racism reaks.
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Cleatus
February 25th, 2009
11:24 pm
Allen will be ok. Look at how he only missed tackles of Roddy Jones. I mean Jones is ok but not great enough for Allen to need to tackle him.
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Richard
February 25th, 2009
11:27 pm
Terrance, I hate to break it to you, but by using the internet to reach more readers, you are cheating your own ratings.
Welcome to the real world buddy.
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RyBuzz
February 25th, 2009
11:52 pm
Terrence Moore you are an idiot. You should be fired for slander and liable, and it makes me sick that you would call out these kids for doing nothing wrong. How can you report that the Tech men’s swim team is cheating when you know good and well they are playing within the rules. Its one thing if you think the suits should be banned, but to call a hard-working group of young men who are extremely intelligent for utilizing all the tools available to them to excell in a very difficult sport cheaters is absolutely disgusting. I hope the AJC wakes up soon and realizes what a joke you really are. Good day, sir.
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Oliver
February 26th, 2009
12:17 am
And Lance Armstrong bike at $10,000 a pop, you would also ban it. Time to wake up and stop living in the 1900th.
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Oliver
February 26th, 2009
12:19 am
After all, you would probably prefere that kids just stay at home, get fat and certainly not do any sport.
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idiot
February 26th, 2009
12:57 am
you are ignorant…absolutely embarrassing. but i guess you did evolve from a monkey
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Billy Ellison
February 26th, 2009
1:22 am
Sure, if an NFL team needs a minium of two interference calls against them per game, then Allen’s their man!
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Billy Ellison
February 26th, 2009
1:24 am
Sure, if an NFL team needs at least two interferen calls against them per game, then Allen’s their man!
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Paul
February 26th, 2009
8:16 am
Guess writing garbage like this to fuel some sort of flames is the only way to save the AJC. So, mission accomplished TM…everyone is reading this article now.
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Mac
February 26th, 2009
8:27 am
It doesn’t matter if the “media notices him.” If teams do, and they like what they see, he’ll be OK. At worst he’ll end up with a few hundred thousand dollars and three years of a college for free. That’s not bad and the upside is much better. Allen made a sound choice.
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UnderDog
February 26th, 2009
8:28 am
Go hang yourself.
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Mac
February 26th, 2009
8:29 am
And, I don’t know about the others here, but a few hundred thousand dollars would be a godsend for me and my family.
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hop
February 26th, 2009
8:35 am
it is without question that ashley would have improved his draft status if he had stayed another year,but he elected to pursue a career with the nfl now.
we wish him well and appreciate his efforts while at uga.
as far as why, this buffoon writer wrote this type article is beyond.
me.
how can anyone explain the reasoning for what this guy writes. other than, this guy is goofy!
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Too Easy
February 26th, 2009
8:40 am
Stupid headline. I thought we had a deal that you would quit writing about UGA, and I would quit reading your articles. You broke the deal first, and I was sucked in.
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G Turner
February 26th, 2009
8:44 am
Good grief! a typical socialist response. If everyone can’t have the same things, then no one should have them!!!
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Knuckle Sandwich
February 26th, 2009
8:56 am
Yeah Terrence, it was a truly enlightened decision to leave early after a poor year with no picks. He will go undrafted. By the way, thanks for losing us Ken Griffey Jr., you clown.
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MikeJ
February 26th, 2009
9:01 am
Why would you promote dropping out of college to young athletes?? You and your editor should be ashamed of yourself.
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cursive
February 26th, 2009
9:26 am
Good for him, and I’m glad that he is a respectable, polite young man. I wish him luck, and I am glad that he left to open up room for what should be a very talented secondary.
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John Trembley
February 26th, 2009
9:40 am
Thank goodness for such clarity! Now, let us get to banning new basketball arenas, football stadium renovations and the like. These items are so expensive. Many schools can not afford the multi-million dollar facilities. Your logic is nonsensical and devoid of any reason. Lets give all students C in school, all Americans the same color car and pay everyone equally. True socialism appears to be your bottom line. Some athletes, school, professional teams, newspapers, businesses have more opportunity that others. That is life. If you are inclined to put pen to paper FOR SWIMMING AND DIVING, please offer something constructive. Our sport is in need of support. Never again will purchase this paper. As well your editor should reconsider leadership.
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Terence Moore
February 26th, 2009
10:31 am
MikeJ,
I once was a hardliner on this subject, but now I’m of the mindset that, if a young athlete wants to leave college, he should leave. If you force him to stay, he’s not going to be motivated to study anyway.
Asher is a smart guy. So, he’ll return someday to get his degree.
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Mike C
February 26th, 2009
10:58 am
Terrence, I understand that you feel that the NCAA should ban the suits. That’s fine. However, to accuse the GT swim team as “cheaters” is extremely out of line. I’ve read and enjoyed some of your articles in the past, but this is just unacceptable. To say the least, I’m quite disappointed, and hope to see an apology from you in the near future.
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dylan
February 26th, 2009
11:04 am
yea right
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dylan
February 26th, 2009
11:05 am
maybe you should return to school and learn how to be a journalist. you friggin clown
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Kyle
February 26th, 2009
11:36 am
What shoes was Allen wearing Terence? If he had nice Nikes or UnderArmours then perhaps you should see how he paid for them and accuse him of cheating for using a shoe that allows him to distort his 40 time. Right, Terence?
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study?
February 26th, 2009
11:37 am
You really think he has to study at uga to pass as a football player?
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GERALD S
February 26th, 2009
12:07 pm
you just wrote a nice positive story about a good young man with a very negative headline! please do better if you can!!
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reservoirDAWG
February 26th, 2009
2:09 pm
That’s the problem Gerald, Terry can’t do better.
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Terence Cheats
February 26th, 2009
2:15 pm
I thought since the AJC doesn’t have Terence Moore’s e-mail listed on their contacts page that people might be interested in sending their feedback to him personally. tlmajc@aol.com
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you suck...
February 26th, 2009
2:34 pm
D C
U U
M N
B T
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Brian A. Robbins
February 26th, 2009
2:36 pm
i wouldn’t wipe myself with this article if it was printed on Charmin.
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Doug
February 26th, 2009
3:07 pm
Terence, I still do not see an apology!
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ScoreAtlanta
February 26th, 2009
3:17 pm
Mr. Moore, we politely disagree: http://www.scoreatl.com/stories/moore-gets-it-wrong/
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William
February 26th, 2009
3:26 pm
Terence,
The times of Malcolm Jenkins and Asher Allen, along with those of pretty much every athlete in the draft, are slower than their previous times because of the way 40 times are done at the combine.
In college and in high school, they are usually hand clocked, which means that there is roughly a one-tenth to .15 second delay on starting and stopping. At the NFL combine, the clock automatically starts and stops as soon as the player starts in movement from the line.
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Brian A. Robbins
February 26th, 2009
4:20 pm
Dear Terence,
Your ignorance astounds me. I just finished reading your article about the Georgia Tech Swim and Dive team wearing LZR’s this week at ACC’s. (Did you even know that ACC’s were this week? Doubt it.) I would love to join whichever union you are in that allows you to write such bull without getting fired. You have no business writing about swimming, and your article proves it.
I am no Michael Phelps fan; believe me, but to say that winning 8 gold medals this summer in Beijing was because of the suit is an insult to the entire world swimming community. That man worked his butt off his entire life to achieve what he did, and the suits had absolutely nothing to do with it. See, winning gold medals is about beating the people next to you, not breaking world records (and if you were capable of doing your job, you would see on the videos of his races that…THE COMPETITION WAS WEARING THEM TOO!! Oh my Gosh! No way!). To take shots at Phelps for wearing the best LEGAL suit available is like taking shots at Lance Armstrong for riding the best bike available, or Tiger Woods for using the best clubs available, or Michael Jordan the best shoes available, or Rafa Nadal for using the best racket (should I go on, or is my point starting to get through your immensely thick skull? I’ll keep going)…
You see, Terence, using good equipment is a completely different ball game than using performance enhancing drugs. Drugs alter your body chemically so that you can train better, get stronger then have the edge when you are competing, whereas using the best equipment has nothing to do with the chemical balance of the human body. The ILLEGAL drugs rarely used in swimming make the athlete stronger to go faster, whereas the LEGAL LZR’s, decrease drag, and help with buoyancy. Do you expect the NCAA and FINA to ban swimmers from shaving their legs too?
I also love how you chose to pick on the Georgia Tech Swim Team, and not UGA’s. Huh, I wonder if the UGA bred editors of the Atlanta Urinal had anything to do with that…
Anyway, Terence, every team in the NCAA has deals with companies that make suits; it’s how they can save money, and it’s advertising for the suit making companies. And, the professional swimmers get to sign with swim suit companies to get PAID to wear the suits. Man, so much for your argument about the economy. UGA’s swim team, for instance, is wearing the Blueseventy swim suit. Ever hear of that one Terence? I didn’t think so. The Blueseventy is a much cheaper Australian made suit that was designed from wetsuits; it keeps swimmers more afloat in the water and decreases drag…and most in the swimming community agree that it is faster than the LZR, and yet, in your vast research on this topic, you neglected to mention this. So why choose to go after Georgia Tech?
You are an idiot, and a disgrace to the sporting community.
With love,
Brian A. Robbins
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Jim Love
February 26th, 2009
4:26 pm
To Not a Dawg Fan,
8-4 for the dawgs the next few years? UGA hasn’t won less than 10 games in a season for 6 or 7 years in a row. The talent pool isn’t drying up.
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joeyswim145
February 26th, 2009
4:35 pm
you know nothing about the sport….complete idiot
Cheating is breaking the rules….there are no rules against these suits….therefore cheating is not occurring.
I’m in Division 2 swimming, and most everyone can find a way to afford these suits.
We’re not meathead baseball or football players on steriods…..write something about them
Worse article Ive ever seen written about swimming.
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The Truth
February 26th, 2009
4:58 pm
The header on this page says “Michael Phelps suit inspires Georgia Tech swimmers to cheat”. The only suit you need to worry about is the libel suit heading your way. Georgia Tech is getting ready to own the largest student newspaper in the country. Hmmm. Instead of that, maybe just turning all the AJC property into a parking lot would be better use of the space.
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JP
February 26th, 2009
5:24 pm
God help us. Just when I thought Terrance Moore couldn’t get any worse, he posts this drivel.
I wish Allen the best, but this was a stupid decision by an arrogant child. He’ll be a mediocre DB in the NFL at best….
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Williams
February 26th, 2009
6:16 pm
I bleed Red & Black. With that being said I think it was a mistake for Allen to leave. He clearly was our best corner last season, but I never saw him as a player that should leave early. One thing I’d like to comment on is the idea that he was a “splendid kick returner”. I strongly disagree with that idea. He had some good returns here and there, but I wouldn’t say he was “splendid”. Keep in mind, this is coming from somebody that absolutely LOVES the Bulldogs and supports every single player and part of the program as much as possible. I just simply disagree with the idea that he was “splendid”. IMO, to leave early, you should have a VERY pressing financial need or you need to clearly be ready to go to the next level and made an impact. I don’t think one should leave early just to be in the league. Take Javaris Crittenton for example, he left GT after one year and he’s already played for THREE different teams in his young career. I HOPE that Allen makes it big, heck I hope he’s a first rounder, but if you ask for my honest opinion I don’t think he made the right choice. He’s a heck of a corner that would have benefited from a senior campaign.
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Williams
February 26th, 2009
6:24 pm
Another thing I forgot to post in my original comment. I wish that you people would PLEASE STOP talking about these 40 times like they make or break the player. This guy ran a 4.55 so he’s not good while this guy ran a 4.4 so he’s better, give me a break. That’s a joke. At the end of the day you have to strap em up and play ball. NO football player comes out of a sprinter stance and runs in a straight line. The 40 yard dash is just as much about technique as it is about speed. The 3-cone drill is a better gauge in my opinion. I’d rather know how much quickness and agility a player has before I know how fast he runs in a STRAIGHT LINE, in plain clothes, and coming out of a sprinter stance.
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Phil
February 26th, 2009
6:51 pm
Terence Moore needs to make a public apology for this one. He was totally out of line. His editors even defended him, saying in an email to me, saying Terence said it was “tantamount to cheating.” That’s not what was said at all…it wasn’t likened to cheating, he called them cheats. He needs to be suspended or fired for this one. He really crossed the line this time.
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theLAW
February 26th, 2009
6:52 pm
Terrence Moore: Colossal Dipshit
Do you even read about the things you spew your literary diarrhea on?
If you had your finger on the pulse of the swimming community instead of jammed up your ass, you would have realized that these suits are certified by the NCAA and are the standard, worn by any serious athlete. The performance gain seen is no different than compressive suits for running and weightlifting, comparing them to performance enhancing drugs is like comparing caffeine to cocaine. The swimming community has even recently imposed limits on what can be considered legal, limiting each swimmer to wearing one suit at a time.
You make accusations regarding the swim team’s coaching staff cutting financial corners without being burdened by their responsibilities. Words like “often” are thrown around all too casually (and wrongly), did you accompany the team “often”? Even going so far as to neglect the fact that swimming is paid far less than many other popular sports such as football. Can you imagine a football team without the very latest equipment? (can you say brain damage?). Can you fathom anyone giving other teams a competitive advantage because they think NCAA certified products are “silly”?
I don’t make a point of getting angry at ignorant idiots, i simply educate and make fun of them. If you are going to call a modern facet of someone’s sport silly, you may want to pick your battles more carefully, I doubt a LZR suit would “carry” you anywhere quickly (if you could fin in one that is).
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Dan Dawg
February 26th, 2009
8:52 pm
There may be 20 high school corner backs in Georgia that are better than Allen. And I read a hell of a lot of sports articles written by better writers than Moore.
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dawg fan dave
February 26th, 2009
10:01 pm
Very strange column with even stranger headline. I am not really sure that the point was, but I guess that could be said about many of your columns.
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matt
February 27th, 2009
9:02 am
Let’s be honest. Asher never lived up to his expectations. If you aren’t a first round pick why would you leave early??? I don’t wish bad things on him but it seems like a pretty dumb move. I can’t imagine that too many NFL teams are busy looking for 5′9 corners who don’t have blazing speed.
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dawgfan76
February 27th, 2009
9:29 am
AJC please get rid of Terrence the rascist Moore. Everyone hates him.
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GMan
February 27th, 2009
10:07 am
Georgia’s defensive line last year was terrible making interceptions rare. The pro scouts will be the judge and will like what they see in Allen, a good, tough cornerback. low 1st or high 2nd round pick
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Rondo
February 27th, 2009
10:19 am
How is Asher Allen’s case the same as Danny Ware’s? Asher Allen would be a returning starter and special teams specialist next season. Danny Ware was going to be on the bench for the entire season. There was Brown, Moreno, and Lumpkin. Danny Ware left because his services were no longer needed. He could not have played himself into a better draft pick. Allen had the chance to do exactly that. Mr. Moore, you can’t believe that he would not have benefited from playing another year of football at Georgia. I understand supporting Asher after he made his decision. But you know he should have stayed.
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Georgia Fan
February 27th, 2009
10:34 am
Asher is a great guy and I hope he makes 10 pro bowls, but he had a very unimpressive 2008 season and could have used another year. My biggest memory of Asher’s 2008 season was when Gary Danielson called him out for “lazy defense” during the LSU game. He got caught napping on a play and had to hold the guy to prevent him from making a reception. That one play pretty much sums up our defense’s entire season. Hand injury or not, he could have done better. I was shocked when he announced he was leaving early and do not think he is ready for the NFL. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.
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Also a Dawg Fan
February 27th, 2009
10:51 am
Asher will be ok… At the time he made that decision I was like what the HELL… Good luck man… I remember your last high school game when u guys lost to my SWD PANTHERS and how u had broke your leg and how u came back to play your final game… Much respect for ya DAWG!! GOOD LUCK
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NativeAtlantan
February 27th, 2009
10:57 am
Has anyone contacted DRad or the Tech administration about this to be sure they get involved? At the VERY least, Terrence Moore’s press credentials needs to be revoked, and he owes each member of the swim team a personal apology for accusing them of cheating.
Football players (at UGA, GT, wherever) don’t have to sacrfice for their state of the art facilities, equipment, uniforms, etc…These “non-revenue” athletes choose to sleep 3 to a room in cheap hotels so they can afford competitive swim suits. They should be applauded, not accused of cheating. Shame on you, TM. Shame on you, AJC headline writers. Shame on you. I’d threaten to cancel my paper subscription, but I did that years ago.
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Jared
February 27th, 2009
12:46 pm
Do we only support our players if they decide to stay four years? Asher Allen is a fine young man, and an example of class. He will represent UGA well in the pro’s. I wish him the best, and while I would have loved to have seen him on our defense next year, am not going to whine about him moving to the next level, if that is what he feels is best. I do believe that he has the class to come back and finish his degree, because that is the type of person he is. Good Luck Mr. Allen!
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sswwiimm
February 27th, 2009
2:52 pm
wow, this article makes you sound so incredibility ignorant. i wish i could send you videos of all the people who laughed after reading this article. nice job terence moore.
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AWJ
February 27th, 2009
3:15 pm
Not sure I remember Asher returning a whole lot of punts, at least last year. The only reason Logan Grey was the return guy was when we needed someone with good hands to catch the ball when we would be backed up deep in our territory. Almost all of his returns were for fair catches. Richt even said so…
As far as Asher turning pro…
I don’t think he will get drafted as high as he hopes, but I think he will be a great find in the 3rd or 4th round a couple of years from now when he develops a bit.
Good luck Asher!!!
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Doug
February 27th, 2009
3:18 pm
Well if Tech gets to own the newspaper, maybe we MIGHT get some fair coverage.
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Chiu chiu?
February 27th, 2009
3:57 pm
So basically, every team that uses any type of suit other than a old-school Lycra is cheating?
Suits don’t win races on their own… Tech has talent. Get a life.
lasdkjfl;afghlkga;k
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The Truth
February 27th, 2009
4:59 pm
The real story here is the decades of deception that Terrence had us believe. All this time I thought he was an African-American middle aged male. But now we all know he is actually a Japanese teenage girl.
Japanese because of this – http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7434159.stm
Teenage because of his/her writing skill
Girl because of his/her total lack of knowledge of sports and only writing about how he/she feels
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James Cox Kennedy
February 27th, 2009
9:29 pm
Terence,
We can no longer tolerate your stupidity. Even by the AJC’s standards you are a disgrace. You’re fired.
Sincerely,
James Cox Kennedy
CEO, Cox Enterprises
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SlimG
February 28th, 2009
9:48 am
When are you fools going to understand. Money talks and you know what walks. Kids that play at UGA are groomed for the pros. Why else would someone go over to Athens? This kid will go in the late first to second and make plenty of money. More than a tech grad sees in a lifetime. Can’t blame the kid because school will always be an option. Good luck Allen.
Stop hating techies, dawg fans wish tech the best except when playing the bees, where tech just hates georgia in all aspects of life. What a shame.
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eat me
February 28th, 2009
9:58 am
TM is an asshole. The AJC is a complete joke and will hopefully go bankrupt soon.
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GT_engineer
February 28th, 2009
2:14 pm
Roddy Jones think he’s ready for the NFL
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JMar
February 28th, 2009
5:54 pm
The smartest thing Knight suggested was firing Woodson, and it also happens to be the thing he lost his job over. Anyone who says the Hawks are winning because of Woodson and not in SPITE of Woodson is failing to see the forest for the trees.
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Jay Stiltner
February 28th, 2009
6:57 pm
Billy Knight doesn’t deserve recognition, gratitude or anything close to something as absurd as an apology, Moore. What did Knight ever win as GM of the Hawks? That’s right, nothing.
I can’t believe you’re actually giving Knight credit. The Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Brandon Roy bloopers can’t ever be forgiven nor forgotten. Marvin Williams is a super-bust! There will never be a justifiable reason as to why you would take a kid that was the 6th man coming off the bench as a freshman in college, as the #2 pick in the draft.
Yeah, he brought in Joe Johnson. And yeah, he finally guessed right on Al Horford. But just because the upstart Hawks happened to make the playoffs last year with a sub-500 record and take the Celtics to the brink of elimination, doesn’t make Knight’s tenure a success. That bum didn’t put in place a winning product.
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Jay Stiltner
February 28th, 2009
7:06 pm
Oh, wait a minute. I CAN believe you’re actually giving Knight credit.
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rahdream
February 28th, 2009
7:12 pm
Marvin Williams,Sheldan Williams,Speedy Claxton…..Need I say more?
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Joe
February 28th, 2009
8:15 pm
Passing up Chris Paul and Deron Williams was just plain stupid on Bill Knight behalf. I also think signing Speedy Claxton and drafting Sheldon Williams was idiotic. One more think trading Rasheed Wallace was also dumb.
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Wizard
February 28th, 2009
8:28 pm
If Knight had lighter skin pigmentation, this column would be blasting him, not praising him. W/5 Top 10 picks in his tenure, he managed to get ONE right. This team still has many issues and limitations that wera caused by Knight.
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MonteMan
February 28th, 2009
9:20 pm
This article clearly demonstrates that intelligence and fairness are NOT a requirement for employment at the ajc. You are an idiot and clearly nothing about swimming!
Several points:
These suits are now commonly seen whenever elite swimmers compete in important meets – even at the high school level – don’t think you knew that Moore – bet you don’t attend many high school meets.
These suits are often loaned to the swimmers, especially those that qualify for finals – as would any well run company, Speedo is enjoying good press coverage from these suits, and often engages in “loss leaders” as a trade-off for such coverage.
The swimmers that compete train very hard for months to earn the right to compete at these championships, so these achievements can not be attributed solely to the benefits, if any, that may be derived by these suits. If you’ve paid any attention to the sport, you would know that record times have been steadily falling in the sport for some time, long before Speedo introduced these suits, and the times of elite swimmers as a group has been dropping even more dramatically – but Moore you certainly do not that!
Since when is it “cheating” to use equipment that is perfectly legal? Is it also cheating to work harder and be better coached? Is it cheating to make sacrifices in one area to obtain benefits in another? Or is it cheating simply if someone does something with which you don’t agree? Is it cheating the public when a person that has the eyes of the public impugns the character of well trained, conditioned and coached athletes simply because he doesn’t like what they do, or perhaps resents their success.
But perhaps worst of all, is when the writer abuses his trade and suggests an analogy that just isn’t there! To even to suggest that the use of a piece of equipment is entirely legal somehow akin to an illegal activity like doping is wrong-headed, stupid, outrageous and slanderous.
You owe everyone in the sport of swimming an apology! And especially any swimmer that has competed using these new suits, including the Georgia Tech coaches and swimmers.
You should be especially ashamed, and should the management at the ajc for allowing such a stupid and vacuous opinion to appear in print.
I’ll be cancelling my subscription!
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Najeh Davenpoop
February 28th, 2009
10:03 pm
Billy Knight’s mistakes weren’t about who he acquired — they were about who he DIDN’T acquire. In that sense, he is a better GM than the likes of Chris Wallace and Larry Harris who spend big money and high picks to bring in D-League caliber players. Other than Shelden (for whom Billy reached to fill a need at center, something I’m sure even Billy will admit to some day) every player he signed or drafted was an NBA-caliber talent who either has had success here or somewhere else. And he deserves a lot of credit for getting a player like Josh Smith outside the lottery. But having said all that, there’s no excuse for passing on the likes of Chris Paul and Brandon Roy, who would both be the best player on the Hawks’ roster right now. I do think it’s possible he’s learned from his mistakes and could be a good GM for another team at some point.
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Mike in Valdosta
February 28th, 2009
10:17 pm
One of your more thought provoking emails, Mr. Moore. I still remember how we, those of us who are actually fans of the Hawks, rallied behind Billy when he refused to shake hands with the devil in court. The point guard situation will always remain a mystery to me. Yes, he eventually got it right with Bibby, but Speedy Claxton, Speedy Claxton…… The Hawks’ version of Nick Esasky or Bruce Sutter. But I have to admit, I was more in favor of keeping Knight and losing Woodson. I wonder where we would be if things would have remained in tact. Only time will tell for Sund hasn’t really done much. We lost one to Greece, but picked up two nice pieces. Billy just couldn’t do right with guards, what was he 2 for 8, Joe and Mike being the 2. Anyway, nice article.
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walter
February 28th, 2009
11:28 pm
Stupid article — He set us years back while he was here, sure he got some good players but look how high he picked every year. Who did he draft that was better than those picked ahead of him? Josh Smith that’s it, Chilldress over Deng an Gordon, Marvin over Paul & Derin, Shelden over Roy. Of course he drafted Horford which Im Glad but is he better than those drafted ahead of him? Durant no, Oden the jurys still out.
An Joe Johnston what is he about maybe in the top 30 players playing now? for that 2 first round picks a player Diaw who is doing alright now and 20 million first yr Great pickup Billy you are the best…………
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ant banks
March 1st, 2009
12:42 am
one other thing that was not mentioned here, knight gave phoenix 2 1st rnd draft picks for JJ. jj could have been had for less, because phoenix was bluffin’. jj has been a welcomed addition to the hawks, but no one in the league would give 2 1st round picks for him.
also on pickin’ sheldon at the 10 spot, how in the BLAZES did word get out that the hawks were takin’ sheldon with the 10th pick. i was astonished at this. i though that this was a joke back in ‘06. a week before the draft word had gotten out that the hawks were selectin’ sheldon with the 10th pick. atl was the laughin’ stock of the league for this.
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PD
March 1st, 2009
1:03 am
This is actually quite debateable about Billy Knight. Yeah he made his mistakes but what GM has not. Colangelo when he was with the Suns before going to the Raptors passed on Rudy Fernandez, Luol Deng, Nate Robinson and Marcin Gortat. After Colangelo left Steve Kerr made the Shaq trade and passed on Rajon Rondo. I think Knight’s biggest mistake was Shelden Williams. The Hawks just got tricked by signing Claxton he was playing great the year before in New Orleans. This team always wanted a veteran point.
The eventually get a veteran point in Mike Bibby now they are talking playoff seeding 2 years in a row.
Billy King formerly of 76ers is another GM that got a bad deal as well. He built that prior to the Brand deal which was crap.
Marvin is no where near a bust like Shelden or Salim Stoudamire. 1 bad out of 6 or 7 picks is not bad.
Knight drafted and acquired
Royal Ivey (76ers)
Donta Smith (out the league)
Boris Diaw (Bobcats)
Childress (Better than Deng)
JSmoove (future all-star)
Horford (future all-star)
Law (decent just needs minutes to shine)
Solomon Jones great backup
Mike Bibby trade
Zaza Pachulia free agent
Joe Johnson trade
Salim Stoudamire (bad attitude or something could not stick with the Spurs either)
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PD
March 1st, 2009
1:09 am
Ant Bank just to make you even more upset Shelden was the 5th pick.
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Nameg
March 1st, 2009
3:09 am
Passing on a top 5 player in the NBA today in Chris Paul and picking Shelden over Roy and Gay is indefensible.
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Birddawg
March 1st, 2009
5:52 am
Billy Knight made calculated risks that didn’t always work out and made some choices that were questionable, but you could understand the argument. I think the biggest factor holding this team back is Mike Woodson. His inability to properly develop young players(which is pretty much all he got to work with) is alarming. Salim Stoudamire could have been a serviceable shooting guard with proper development, now we see the same thing happening with Acie Law. Shelden Williams and Speedy Claxton, notwithstanding, Knight actually made some reasonable choices for this team. The most important probably being the one that didn’t happen…firing Woodson
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RA
March 1st, 2009
8:36 am
I’ve got to side with birddawg. Say what you want about what Woodson did and didn’t do, and trust me, there’s a lot to be said either way, but the one thing that can’t be denied is the fact that he took a franchise that was in ashes, tore down the roster, and built a team that’s playoff worthy, and is only going to get better if kept together. No one can argue that, and it’s liar who’d try.
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ed amos
March 1st, 2009
9:07 am
All of you people who don’t agree with Terrence Moore, fine! But your comments are of mean spirit, and I wonder if there is a little racism in those comments. If it is not racism, where does all of this anger come from? Why? We all like sports why can’t we enjoy talking about it instead tearing one another down. Okay, now you know my true colors. I claim Christ as my savior and all of you as brothers and sisters. Let love have the final word not hate.
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JOHN
March 1st, 2009
9:37 am
Billy Knight chose Marvin Williams and Shelden Williams. Lets see who we left on the table. Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Donte Ellis, Andrew Bynum, Lamarcus Alderidge, Brandon Roy.
After all this, Knight paid [5] million a yaer for the point guard who was not needed in New Orleans after Chris Paul arrived, [Speedy Claxton]
Marvin Williams will be traded when his contarct runs out. He’s like a bad taste in your mouth, no offense to him and his lack of skills.
JOHN
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WAR EAGLE!!!!
March 1st, 2009
9:42 am
Shelden Williams and missing out on Chris Paul is the only thing you have to bring up when talking about Billy Knight
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St. Bernard
March 1st, 2009
9:42 am
Wow! No mention of ridiculous draft picks in the article?! As others have said, his mistakes in the draft were unforgivable. Then, he was the one who picked Woodson, a coach who only plays veterans, in the first place to coach a team full of young guys to develop. Look at what happened with Salim and Acie. Lucky for Paul and Deron that they weren’t drafted by us, they probably would have played behind Tyrone Lue for their first two years!
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renegade
March 1st, 2009
10:03 am
Knight and Woodson Laurel and Hardy? Two dribble two drool.Two comedians two fools.
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renegade
March 1st, 2009
10:09 am
Oh by the way Terrance you should be shackled to these two fools.How on earth can you take up for either one of these Morons neither one should be left alone with a sharp object.Do you even proof read any of this crap you write.
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Strawman
March 1st, 2009
10:21 am
Finally someone states the obvious. This is Billy Knight’s team, with all due respect for Sund acquisitions Murray and Evans. And don’t forget, Smith was the 17th pick in the draft, Zaza Pachulia was taken off the scrap heap, we gave up nothing for Mike Bibby, and while Diaw did develop the two first rounders for JJ were mid to late round picks. Also, Knight wisely passed on Eddie Curry and Erick Dampier when the Hawks needed a big man and they both were seeking 60 million deals.
And by the way, Terance DID mention the Chris Paul oversight at length.
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Jed
March 1st, 2009
10:28 am
It must boil the blood of the guy with the pigmentation comment to see blacks in management & coaching, much less in journalism. I’m white, just to lay the cards on the table.
Here’s the sticking point: this debate is only about race if that’s the only axe you have to grind. What it’s really about is how well two men have done their jobs: if you hate Atlanta’s coach, then you gotta love the former GM; If you loved the GM, then you gotta hate the coach.
My money is somewhere in the middle on both.
Knight needs two or three big asterisks by his name.
* The pick of Shelden Williams stunk from the get-go, and smelled worse once the sun came up.
* But The Speedy Claxton deal hurt us worse, and hinted at someone not doing their homework.
Some folks would like Marvin Williams included as an asterisk. Jury is still out on whether he’ll be remembered as Billy’s V8 moment. (*Whack*!! I coulda had a point guard!)
But get this: there’s TIME for the jury to be out, folks. Marvin won’t turn 23 until after the NBA finals, yet he blew up for 31 points 2 nights ago against the Nuggets. He’s been solid all year, plays lock-down defense & now is stepping up offensively when his number is called.)
No one can deny that Billy knocked a homer with Josh Smith, Josh Childress & Al Horford. Some may claim that Horford was the obvious choice. But no one predicted he would do as well as he has done, with no sign of a sophomore jinx. He probably had a hand in the Dickau debacle, but Billy earns bonus points for recognizing this early and unloading him quickly.
But the litmus test of a manager is his willingness to pull the trigger on a make-or-break deal. And here’s the bottom line: Billy Knight put his career on the line for the sake of the Hawks future by refusing to shake hands with the devil. None of our current renaissance would have taken place without Joe Johnson, who was not even a starter in Phoenix. You cannot have the current talent core of the Hawks unless you are willing to swing for the fences. Billy swung and knocked it out of the park.
Woody, on the other hand, kept this core together better than anyone else, and has kept them playing sound basketball even when his stars are in the training room. I question his handling of Diaw & of Acie Law III, but no one can question his “iron fist in a velvet glove” touch with the volatile Josh Smith and his respectful development of Joe Johnson into a perennial All-Star. An offensive wizard he will never be. But he took a team without a point guard and made defense their cornerstone until Bibby arrived. And that’s no small feat on a team so dominated by youth that their predominant training room medication could be Ritalin.
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James
March 1st, 2009
11:34 am
Mike Woodson is the worst coach I have ever seen in any of the Big 3 professional sports. The Hawks are 2-3 years behind where they should be right now and it is all due to Woodson.
I will say this–IF…the Hawks hadn’t needed a PG, I can understand taking a chance on Marvin Williams. However, that was the one spot, at the time, the Hawks were sorely lacking at and it is inexcusable Woodson and Knight didn’t take Chris Paul.
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Tyger
March 1st, 2009
11:37 am
**Finally…**
I’ve been saying **BK: GM of the Year** for the past three seasons. No one would listen, but now its undeniable. If you’ve been around long enough to know Snake Kasten and Pete Sukscock, you know how horribe we were in the front office. Needless to say, Silent Suhnd will reap all the praise for the ultimate accomplishments of this team, but truth be told, this is still Billy’s team.
The never-ending criticism of Marvin over Paul/Deron is losing ears. As Marvin finds his niche and puts up more 30 pt games, nobody will want to hear it. The real draft travesty was Shelden over Roy, but most are too dense to see that.
Anyway, the coaching situation is a pickle. Woody deserves to both be fired and to keep his job. You cant fire a guy who improves his win total by 50-100% every year. He has literally gone from 13 wins to 26 to 37 to probably 50 this year. That’s progress – problem is … he shoud’ve won more. His refusal to play the bench, hinders their development and thus when you need them, they aren’t ready. Look to AC Law as the latest example. A surefire lottery pick that has regressed so much that he doesn’t even look like a DL starter.
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Astro Joe
March 1st, 2009
11:53 am
The GM’s most important job is hiring the right coach. You can miss on players in the draft but you can’t continue to hire average (at best) coaches. The reason BK doesn’t have a job is because his record of hiring quality coaches is horrific. There is no doubt that with the right coach, the Hawks would be in a conference finals before Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Iguodala, Deng, Brandon Roy or any other “we shoulda drafted…” player you can name. But alas, we have Woody and a dysfunctional ownership group.
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James Banks
March 1st, 2009
12:12 pm
Isn’t hindsight wonderful? Was BK perfect? Of course not. When it comes to making trades, free agent signings and the draft, even the best GMs in the league make mistakes.
Remember, Marvin Williams was drafted to replace Al Harrington. The concept of wanting a veteran PG to lead a young roster is sound and understandable. However, hindsight has shown us that choosing Claxton didn’t pan out as hoped for. More about Marvin Williams in a moment.
When he was here, you guys couldn’t wait to get rid of Diaw and were glad when he was included in the Joe Johnson deal. Thanks to hindsight, you want to negatively criticize BK for that decision.
Drafting Shelden Williams didn’t pan out but BK took the best available big man when it was his turn to draft and Bargnani and Aldridge were gone. In hindsight, everyone says Roy should have been drafted. But we know Roy would have received very little playing time because of the number of swingmen on the roster and the calls for the drafting of a big man would have been deafening.
Here’s a different take on the “should have drafted Chris Paul or Deron Williams instead of Marvin Williams” debate. If having a great PG is a requisite to winning a championship, why haven’t John Stockton, Mark Jackson, Terry Porter, Derek Harper, Gary Payton, Kevin Johnson, Mark Price, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash or Baron Davis, each an all-star and/or considered among the best PGs ever to play the game, ever won a championship?
Here’s another way to think about it: Chauncey Billups and Tony Parker are the only All-Star PGs to win a championship in the last twenty years! Last year’s Celtics (Rajon Rondo) didn’t have one. Neither did Olajuwon’s Rockets (Kenny Smith), Robinson and Duncan’s Spurs (Avery Johnson) Shaq and Kobe’s Lakers (Derek Fisher- very underrated but not great or an all-star), Shaq and Wade’s Heat (Jason Williams) or Jordan’s Bulls (Ron Harper). So if the idea is to win a championship, I don’t understand how passing on Paul or D. Williams was such a major mistake.
Was BK perfect? No. Could he have been better? Certainly. Was he better than his predecessor? Resoundingly yes. Here’s hoping that the actions GM Rick Sund (who has a less than perfect record over his 25 year NBA history) don’t cause us to think about that old adage of not missing your water until your well runs dry.
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Shock This
March 1st, 2009
12:22 pm
I’ve never seen a city so proud of almost winning a first round series. If thats your measuring bar then it’s a clear indication that the franchise is a pile.
“The same coach who later helped the Hawks nearly shock the eventual world champion Boston Celtics in the first round of the playoffs last season.”
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bill
March 1st, 2009
12:54 pm
At least Terrence Moore doesn’t see his life as trying to win some kind of delusional vindication for his people.
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Terrence Moore
March 1st, 2009
12:59 pm
I’m very intellegent.
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Champ
March 1st, 2009
1:35 pm
Billy Knight’s draft picks: 3rd & 11th in 2007, 5th 2006, 2nd 2005, 6th & 17th 2004, 21t 2003. 7 picks in the top 21, 5 in the lottery, and he is getting credit for having a descent team 6 seasons later??? 95% of all GMs could do the same thing!
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Kurt
March 1st, 2009
2:03 pm
Why all the hating of Marvin Williams? He has improved significantly this season. Not to excuse passing on Paul, but Marvin’s not terrible.
People were excited about almost winning a playoff series because we’ve hardly sniffed the playoffs in a decade.
Geez, at least Paul Hewitt won something to raise the expectations. Woodson has steadily improved the team since he’s been here, but that’s not enough. Since win is less than 50 wins a failure for the Atlanta Hawks?!?! Baby steps…Why would anyone want to coach basketball in this town?
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jakejay
March 1st, 2009
2:54 pm
Its so amusing looking at these comments,lol you can tell when someone is talking out the side of their neck about something they have no idea about….1st off its well known that billy knight made some horrible decisions with shelden williams being takin over brandon roy as the clear worst decision he made but at the end of the day the team we have out their today who is currently the 4th seed and took the eventual nba champs boston celtics to 7 games last year well he should also get a lot more credit than deserved…but what I find amazing is the people who critize marvin williams….Let me tell you clueless people something marvin williams will be a stud in this league 4 a long time,a future all star talent is marvin williams…So we you people talk about marvin being a bust it clearly shows you people have no idea about the game of basketball because marvin williams is a future all star and is going to be in this league doing big things for a long time,mark that down!!!!!
Oh yeah
If rick sund trades marvin this offseason,the atlanta hawks will regret yet another decision and be remember as the one who got away..
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Heat Check
March 1st, 2009
3:13 pm
The day the news broke that BK had tried to have Woodson replaced on numerous occasions, my opinion of him as a GM doubled. If he ever gets another GM gig, he might want to rethink the whole “just hire a friend to coach the team” plan. Didn’t really pan out this time.
We’ll see how good of a GM Sund is this summer after his “observational period” is up. Hopefully he’s been observing the guy standing by the bench as much as he’s been observing the guys running on the court.
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Keeping It Real
March 1st, 2009
3:26 pm
Well said Jakejay. All the Hawks need to do is keep the young nucleus they have. With limited resources, I am afraid that Johnson,Smith and Horford are not going to be in Atlanta.
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LL Cool Scott
March 1st, 2009
4:00 pm
Josh Childress over Luol Deng and Andre Iguodala.
Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams.
Shelden Willaims over Brandon Roy and Rajon Rondo.
That’s 3 top 5 picks in a row – with one average starter to show for it. Inexcusable. I’m not even going to get into the fact that he got FLEECED for those two draft picks by Phoenix in the Joe Johnson trade.
STUPID ARTICLE, Terrence. If someone competent was making those picks, we’d be competing for an NBA championship this year, and for many years to come. I’m supposed to be happy that instead of competing for the title, we are simply going to make the playoffs???
Billy Knight is the worst talent evaluator in recent memory. You think it’s a coincidence that he’s unemployed right now?
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Baracked the vote!
March 1st, 2009
4:41 pm
Terrie,
you’re wrong. again.
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dap01
March 1st, 2009
4:55 pm
They may be better than we thought, but that is because of very low expectations.
The current squad is a poorly constructed collection of very good talent. How can a total rebuild result in so many pieces that do not fit. Especially a head coach that does not even closely fit the needs of our outstanding athletes.
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home park
March 1st, 2009
5:37 pm
Today, A nice young woman came to my door. She proceeded to ask my roommates and I if we would like a Subscription to the AJC… I politely slammed the door in her face… reopened it and explained how I wished she had been Terrance Moore apologizing about how uninformed and unintelligent he is and how he can’t help that he’s a lazy, racist, ignorant [I'm not intelligent enough to put a suitable word here]. Then slammed the door again.
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Realist
March 1st, 2009
6:09 pm
Billy Knight does, in fact, look very smart. Compared to Terence Moore.
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Terence Moore
March 1st, 2009
6:21 pm
More than a few folks don’t want Mike Woodson as Hawks coach. In my opinion, more than a few folks are wrong.
Here’s my point: What other coach could have done more than Woodson for the past five seasons, especially given all the issues he has faced? Warring owners. No point guard until the acquisition of Bibby in the spring of 2008. Death of a player before the start of a season. Constantly changing roster early during is tenure. Extremely young roster for much of his tenure.
Even if Phil Jackson were available — which he wasn’t — the results wouldn’t have been much better.
That is, if at all.
The Gearons (among the Hawks eight owners) have it about right: The demanding but fair Woodson had the perfect temperment for the job in the early part of his Hawks stint, and he has grown into a pretty good coach since then.
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LL Cool Scott
March 1st, 2009
6:31 pm
Terrence – I have no problem with Woodson. I don’t think he’s some genius (particularly on the offensive end of the floor), but I think he’s done a good enough job given the pathetic mismatched rosters he’s had in the past. My problems are with Billy Knight for constructing those rosters. He seemed to have some ridiculous notion that you could trot out a roster of athletic 6′8 interchangeable parts and be the reincarnation of the Showtime Lakers (problem is, we don’t have Magic Johnson as one of those parts). His draft mistakes destroyed the future of this franchise. We would be among the league’s elite if he could evaluate talent. Childress over Deng and Iguodala? Marvin over Paul and Williams? Shelden over Roy and Rondo (or a sack of potatoes for that matter)? How can you defend this man’s incompetency??? I could have built a team at least as good as this with 4 consecutive top 5 lottery picks! We should be a contender for the championship for years to come, and instead we have a team that will never get out of the second round. Defend that, please.
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Eric
March 1st, 2009
7:54 pm
WHAT ATLANTA FANS DON’T UNDERSTAND IS THAT AS A GM YOU CAN’T HIT A HOMERUN WITH EVERY SINGLE PICK. YOU WIN SOME AND YOU LOSE SOME, REMEMBER JOSH SMITH LOOKS LIKE A STEAL NOW. IF YOU LOOK AT IT FROM A BUSINESS STANDPOINT, AS FAR AS I KNOW THE HAWKS AREN’T ONE OF THOSE TEAMS THAT IS STRUGGLING WITH MONEY. RICK SUND EVEN SAID THAT SITUATION KNIGHT LEFT HIM IN IS LOOKING REALLY GOOD. SPEEDY IS COMING OF THE BOOKS SOON, AND HE SAID THE HAWKS HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO SIGN BIBBY, MARVIN, JOE AND STILL GET ANOTHER FREE AGENT NEXT YEAR. GOT TO SAY KNIGHT DID A PRETTY GOOD JOB.
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tony
March 1st, 2009
8:12 pm
tm, you are way out of your mind sir. billy knight was one of the worse gm to have such a position. you are right about one thing though, he did draft talentive athletes, but the problem with that is that he didn’t draft court smart talentive athletes. let me use josh smith as an example.
he is a outstanding rebounder and defender, but he’s always trying to do more than what his ability will permit him to do, like shooting the ball from the 3 point line. how is he going to grab rebounds if he’s taking shots that far out? that’s not a very smart basketball player. now dennis rodman was a smart basketball player because he recognized early in his career that rebounding and defending was his strength and he didn’t try to do more than that unless he made an easy dump near the basket.
marvin william is a very humble young man, but he should be the sixth man to come off the bench the way roy williams used him at north carolina. it seems to me that billy knight should had known something wasn’t right about that picture. everytime marvin touch the basketball i cringe because i don’t feel comfortable with his shot selections and when he’s moving with ball.
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MannyT
March 2nd, 2009
12:30 am
One way to measure a GM is to compare with others who have held the same job. While it’s a bit early to put a final grade on Sund, BK clearly did much better than Babcock.
Run down that draft history and you will see a river of guys that were bad picks. I find it amusing that Babcock’s best draft year was the one where he traded the picks away to the Grizzlies (Pau Gasol) and Pacers (Jamaal Tinsley)
Some of BK’s flawed picks are related to his flawed coach. Diaw was better once he left Atlanta. I suspect the same will be true for AC Law & Marvin Williams. Royal Ivey has proved to be more of a contributor outside of Atlanta than he was here for that token starting role he had.
I think BK had a vision for the team that included some level of interchangeable players with an uptempo style. Woody has none of that uptempo stuff unless he is forced into it. Even when it works well, he moves away from it.
BK definitely wasn’t perfect, but he was better than most around Atlanta would acknowledge.
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Big Ray
March 2nd, 2009
12:36 am
What was the point of this article? Knight made good picks? He made bad ones too. He passed on three current all-stars for Marvin and Sheldon. It took him HOW LONG to get us a good point guard. As it is, we are only “renting” THAT one.
Or was the point that Woodson is a good coach in spite of Knight? Yeah he has the perfect temperament alright. Just the wrong approach altogether. He rides veterans while underdeveloping young players. No, he did not develop Marvin, Josh ,and the others. He didn’t have anyone else to play, that is why they played so much.
So which was the intent here, to promote Woodson and his career .360 percentage or Knight and his picks? Or are you trying to do both?
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Big Ray
March 2nd, 2009
12:40 am
I’ll say this though: Knight was very good at picking forwards (except once).
Woodson is very good at preaching defense and rebounding. And if the Hawks get into the second round of the playoffs, he has a job for the next several years. It would be very hard to argue otherwise, as results speak for themselves. Then again, you never know. General managers always like to have “their” guy in the saddle. I’ve seen coaches with career winning records get fired, even after winning seasons.
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Nameg
March 2nd, 2009
2:22 am
Shelden can’t even get action for the Kings, and Gay and Roy were presumed better at the time by everyone when the pick was made. No hindsight there.
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tony
March 2nd, 2009
3:05 am
manny t, you got to be a very young dude or just out of your mind to say bk done a much better job than badcock. how many times did this team make the playoffs under bk. i will tell u? ZERO!! this team was a sub .500 team every year under bk. babcock may have made some bad trades and questionable draft picks at times, but he at least got the hawks into the playoffs with those people he drafted and trade for. by the way, are you related to bk?
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PMC
March 3rd, 2009
9:06 am
Except for the fact that he totally and completely blew it on Chris Paul losing a generational player and an absolute NEED that he only addressed at the bitter end (Point Guard) in order to build a team of power fowards.
SHelden Williams should send half his livelyhood to Dick Vitale.
Knight did get some good talent… at Foward, and he brought in Joe Johnson… unfortunatly it’s a guard driven league predominantly and the good teams all have great point guards or at least a superstar guard that can dish. Joe Johnson is simply not Kobe or Dwayne Wade even though he is very good… put him with CHRIS PAUL….. yeah EVERYONE Is better.
It’s not Marvin Williams fault, but they had fowards… they needed a point guard, and it was only when they got Mike Bibby that they really started turning around.
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PMC
March 3rd, 2009
9:14 am
as tough a job as GM is though, Billy did have a vision and stuck to it. THere is probably something to say for that, Marvin is finally playing much more like what people thought his potential was….. I just wish Darren Williams or Chris Paul or some young good point guard had been brought in with all the good talent at foward.
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ERich42
March 3rd, 2009
9:40 am
Billy Knght may have made a mistake by not taking a point guard. However, the players he did select or doing just fine. The problem with the Hawks is coaching. Woodson does not know how to use or coach Josh Smith yes Smith has some blame for his play at times but I say 95% of it is lack of coaching and guidance. He should never take 17 foot jump shots or lead the fast break with the ball. In fact the Hawks are the only team that lead fast breaks with thier Centers and Power forwards. No wonder they lead the league in turn overs.
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Get over it!
March 3rd, 2009
11:23 am
Please stop! Am I one of the few that like the direction the Braves have taken and look forward to moving on?
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ArkyTech
March 3rd, 2009
11:36 am
What does Furcal not coming have to do with getting Peavy? The Braves had already offered Escobar to San Diego but Peavy wouldn’t approve the trade. What is the supposed point of this column?
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fire terence moore
March 3rd, 2009
11:57 am
wow you can’t write a sports article, slow day huh? how about you make up another braves signing.
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YOU SUCK
March 3rd, 2009
11:59 am
Once again I ask…how do you still have a job in Atlanta? Everyone hate you here and please stay of ESPN. No one wants you to represent our town.
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welikebaseball2
March 3rd, 2009
12:02 pm
ArkyTech: FYI…rumor has it that Peavy might not have approved the trade. Anything beyond that is pure speculation. He never actually disapproved.
I’m starting to think some of you disagree with T. Moore just for the sake of doing so. No, I don’t agree with all of his views (there’s no journalist with whom I always agree anyway.) Regarding this article, there are indeed tons of Braves fans (myself included) that can’t help but to wonder what might have been. That doesn’t mean we’re not moving on…well the true fans at least…
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Jim
March 3rd, 2009
12:06 pm
The picture for Mr. Moore’s story featured Smoltz, Griffey, and Furcal. You’re talking about 3 players who are a combined 112 years old, coming off subpar or injury-plagued seasons. I don’t think anyone needs to be upset about not having them on the 2009 Braves.
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Rick in Dallas
March 3rd, 2009
12:07 pm
Wrong but I love your Skip Bayless approach. By the way Andruw would lead the Cactus League in strikeouts since the Rangers train in Surprise , Az.
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welikebaseball2
March 3rd, 2009
12:08 pm
Better yet, if you all are so much better at writing columns…how about you apply for a journalist job with the AJC? What’s the matter, not qualified?
Columnists are entitled to opinions & views…get over it. Exercise your right to not read the articles. Exercise your right to not your waste time commenting on someone’s work which you claim to hate. Geez, I wish there was this same distaste for the opinionated poo poo that Jeff Schultz puts out…
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bigdon85
March 3rd, 2009
12:27 pm
Once again you cry fowl about Ken Griffey. F Ken Griffey. F John Smoltz. F Furcal. F Peavey. And most importantly: F YOU.
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Chief Nock A Homa
March 3rd, 2009
12:31 pm
welikebaseball2:
And, readers are entitled to expressing their opinions, as well – don’t forget that! You’re doing it right there…
The article has nothing to it other than a recap of everything that everyone has already pointed out a hundred times – form Dave O’Brien to Joe Schmoe on the street…
Just like fire terence moore wrote: it must be a slow day for him….
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Chief Nock A Homa
March 3rd, 2009
12:40 pm
BTW – great blog…
It has attracted so much readership that it has eleven whole comments in an hour and a half since it was posted…
If that doesn’t speak for itself about the writing, blah, blah, blah, blah….
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Dunce Cap
March 3rd, 2009
1:14 pm
Why does anyone care about the offseason anymore? We’re in the midst of Spring Training, the WBC is starting, and we get some bitter column from a tired old columnist. Next week I’m sure we’ll be hearing about how Manny Ramirez signed with the Braves says a source who may or may not be his pet cat.
And Smoltz? You wrote this column two weeks ago and nobody cared for it.
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Eddie K
March 3rd, 2009
1:29 pm
Good lord, please write something worthwhile more than a couple of times a year! The Braves are headed in the right direction and if a couple of things go right, they’re back in the playoff hunt. Just as if they had signed an injury plagued Jones, Hampton, Griffey, Furcal, and Smoltz. GO BRAVES!!!
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Jim H
March 3rd, 2009
1:30 pm
First of all, I love John Smoltz as much as anybody that grew up a Braves fan, but the fact of the matter is that the guy just simply has not finished a season healthy in 4 or 5 years. If he got mad because the Braves were doing their due diligence and making sure he is actually healthy for once, then that’s his prerogative and you can’t fault Braves management for that. Tommy G went about this in a much more professional manner than Smoltz did. I also predict that by the time September rolls around, Glavine will have more Ws than Smoltzie will!
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TheAntiMe
March 3rd, 2009
1:39 pm
If the Padres were so generously giving Jake Peavy away, Terence, then why is he still a member of the Padres?
Do the Friars only feel charitible to the Bravos, because no other teams in MLB have accepted their Peavy donation?
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DMBJAMS
March 3rd, 2009
1:52 pm
Mr. Moore, please stop.
Thanks,
Atlanta
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TheAntiMe
March 3rd, 2009
1:57 pm
I don’t think that anyone else in the galaxy (other than the Astros, of course) is going to be shedding any crocodile tears over Mike Hampton returning to Houston to pitch.
More than any other player that I can remember, Mike Hampton maintains a constant state of evolving infirmiry.
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Biren
March 3rd, 2009
2:01 pm
Dude, shut up man! Get over it! We are a better team. I know you have nothing else to talk about. I say good riddance to all those people who left and a welcome to Atlanta to those who decided to come.
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topgun101
March 3rd, 2009
2:30 pm
why do you even attempt to write? You once again just repeat what everyone knows, but you manage to sound like a complete idiot. I would say don’t quit your day job because everything you write is worthless, but wait somehow this is your day job.
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Downtowner
March 3rd, 2009
2:47 pm
It’s no wonder newspapers are a fading institution….I don’t know what’s sadder. That you get paid for drivel like that or that I actually read it after knowing better than to click on your column…
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Bo
March 3rd, 2009
3:06 pm
Terence’s M.O. to writing:
1. What outlandish thing can I say (e.g., “GT swimmers cheat because they wear Speedo suits.”)?
2. How stupidly can I say it (e.g., “The Braves just had to get Peavy, who also strikes folks out, and he throws a lot of innings.”)?
His material wouldn’t make it past most middle school newspaper editors. That he writes for the AJC completely tarnishes the reputation of that publication, and undermines the prestige of his capable colleagues Bradley and Bisher (I’m no Schultz fan).
welikebaseball2, to answer your question, I find Terence’s boundless display of ignorance entertaining. Enlightening? No. Entertaining? In a very strange way, yes.
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Cameron
March 3rd, 2009
3:11 pm
Of course Terrance Moore would put up a column like this. Hey, let’s focus on what could have been. Here is an idea, we have a pretty good team. We might make it to the playoffs. Why don’t you talk about that? Why this paper still employs you is beyond me. Quote Terrance, “Should we bring back Vick? How about MeAngelo?” I bet you want us to sign Bonds to, idiot.
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Cameron
March 3rd, 2009
3:20 pm
What might have been? If we signed Burnett, then we wouldn’t have signed Lowe. You trade Burnett for Lowe. I would not do that. Smoltz, of course everyone would have liked to have back. But, Frank Wren himself said that we couldn’t sign him and wait til June for him to pitch. Boston can, and are. Furcal never wanted to play second. If we signed him, then we would have Furcal at second and an unhappy Kelly johnson in left field. No Garret Anderson, and maybe no Kawakami because of financial constraints. More speed, less power. Unhappy Furcal and unhappy Johnson. If Andruw turns himself around and we need help scoring runs, then I can see us trading for him. I think him going to Texas is a good thing, because he gets to work with the hitting coach out there. Griffey would have been nice for attendance purposes and leadership. But, Anderson offers that same leadership. Less power, more situational hitting and for higher average. I will take that. What do we learn? The moves we missed were a blessing in disguise. We are better with Lowe, Kawakami, Vazquez and Anderson. More reliable. Come up with something else, probably about racism.
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Cameron
March 3rd, 2009
3:38 pm
Wow, my comments got deleted. Anyways, quit crying. We are better with the moves we made then we would have been if we had gotten these people. Except for Smoltz, but that was his decision. He wants wo win, and at the time he had a better chance of doing that in Boston. Probably still does.
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T-Bone
March 3rd, 2009
3:42 pm
I like TMoore.
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cheld
March 3rd, 2009
4:02 pm
Wasn’t the Peavy deal held up on Hanson, not Escobar? At least, that’s what I remember seeing reported. The Padres wouldn’t do a deal unless Hanson was included somehow.
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Will
March 3rd, 2009
4:56 pm
Again, TM stop writing about the braves. Look we could have had alot of talent but that would have meant that we were going to give up alot of prospects. Im sorry Id rather have the prospects than have guys that will probably be injured or out of here by the end of the year. Congrats Braves Organization, Id have to say you made the perfect decisions for this ball club.
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Doug B
March 3rd, 2009
5:11 pm
I like what we got instead of those guys.
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RcB13
March 3rd, 2009
5:37 pm
TM: You should stick with writing about the hawks or falcons or do some more drop ins on PTI. You show time and again that you don’t know anything about baseball. The AJC has some good braves reporters in Bowman and DOB…we certainly dont need you and your ever-present negativity.
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Tyler
March 3rd, 2009
5:42 pm
DUDE GET OVER IT…………..THIS IS GETTING REALLLLY OLD!!!!
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LivininAL
March 3rd, 2009
6:11 pm
Tsis is a bunch of old old old old stuff. We are playing spring games with the chosen team. For every player the Braves did not sign there are pluses.Play Ball!
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welikebaseball2
March 3rd, 2009
6:14 pm
Chief Nock A Homa:
You’re right, the readers are entitled to their reactions. I never said anything to the contrary. I just think that it’s a little contradictory to say “you’re an awful writer! stop wasting our time!” Yet you guys, knowing how much you despise his writing, spend so much of your time on the blog critiquing his work. If he’s so off in his views, let us know your brilliant/refreshing/relevant take on the subject.
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welikebaseball2
March 3rd, 2009
6:16 pm
RcB13: “we certainly dont need you and your…negativity.”
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welikebaseball2
March 3rd, 2009
6:19 pm
Don’t mean to be defensive about T. Moore’s work. Like I said, I don’t agree with all his views…but you guys are going a bit overboard with the bashing. If you don’t like his writing…stop reading it! I know you have the right to voice your opinion but why would you spend so much energy tearing down someone you don’t deem worthy of you reading time?
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Terence Moore
March 3rd, 2009
8:00 pm
Jim H,
The Boston Red Sox acquired John Smoltz for his brilliant postseason record as much as anything else. Whatever they get from Smoltz during the regular season is gravy.
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Mark B (MEB)
March 3rd, 2009
8:01 pm
Say what TM… are you paying attention at all? Do you just make this stuff up? Is there an editor at the AJC that has any supervision over what you write? I should have known better than to read this column because what you write just flat ticks me off. The Braves have done an admirable job this summer and you can’t see it because of the blinders you always wear.
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Braves#1
March 3rd, 2009
9:12 pm
In retrospect I’m glad non of these moves fell through….besides Smoltz. Would have liked to see him stay. I like the team how it is.
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Poorbrave
March 3rd, 2009
9:37 pm
Come on TM you can do better than this. I thought you had something to say?
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jgon
March 3rd, 2009
9:57 pm
Watch out tm the economy is bad you could be the first one out the door.
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grahzny bratchny
March 3rd, 2009
10:15 pm
The problem with you “Terry”, is that you never stand up for what you say and are not available for comment without compensation. On this message board your comment about Andruw leading the Grapefruit league in strikeouts was factually wrong and you can’t even stand up for your inaccuracy and give that “blogger” credit. That has as much to do with the problem people have with you as anything.
The AJC must need you, ESPN…they hired Michael Irvin and the 2 Live Stews. The Stews are not collectively as bright as you, but may actually do more research.
Get some balls and respond to Rick in Dallas with a thanks/mention for the correction.
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tlj
March 3rd, 2009
10:18 pm
Everyone of the players you mentioned suffered from injuries last year OR is an injury waiting to happen. No thanks, we’ve been down that road. Let Griffey DH for the Mariners, Smoltz pitch for the sox and Furcal do whatever he does for LA, etc. At some point in time in the season they will all be on the DL.
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JP
March 3rd, 2009
10:56 pm
Does anyone else that has read TM’s recent work feel like they’re watching a train wreck?
As to the actual content of the column, there is nothing in it that hasn’t been hashed out in the blogs both at the AJC and elsewhere over the past few week. I think we ended up with a pretty decent offseason, and I’m lookikng forward to reading columns about the team we have – not the one we could have had.
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CWE
March 4th, 2009
7:31 am
The past is past,looking forward I see the Braves contending for the division this year,next year I see them winning the division and possibly the National League pennant…Young pitching and defense and timely hitting is the key this year….How long before they bring up Hanson?Go Braves
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PTBNL
March 4th, 2009
9:14 am
T. Moore, where did Smoltz get that postseason reputation? You have expressed before that the Braves owe Smoltz because Smoltz has “given” so much. Look what he got! If it was not for the Braves, he would not even have had the opportunities that he has had in the postseason. There is so much more that Smoltz “got” from the Braves, but I won’t mention it. All you have to do is look a little deeper. So again I ask, what does he owe the Braves? But you even mentioned that the reason the Sox want him is because of his postseason reputation. So it seems that he even owes them the opportunity to play for the Sox. Hmmm.
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Old Blue
March 4th, 2009
9:17 am
Old age and treachery wins over youth and vigor in most instances, but not baseball. The good times will shortly roll for the Braves and the old boys will bask in their millions and memories.
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Keeping It Real
March 4th, 2009
9:57 am
Terrence,once again you have broken up the doldrums of the day by writing an article that entices the local yahoos to attack you with their dumb ass remarks. Some guy even suggests that the Braves are set to win the division and the NL pennant. Wow!!!! Keep up the good work.
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Dorothy Davis
March 4th, 2009
10:51 am
So we didn’t get a bunch of injury prone players, re: Smoltz, Hampton, Griffey, how is that going to hurt the team? I look forward to a great season with some “much younger” and talented players. Go Braves!!!!!
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Nate Hogan
March 4th, 2009
11:14 am
Peavy is a great but thank god we did not bring back the sloth Andryw Jones and the gutless mike Hampton.
Plus Escobar is th eonly everyday player that can actually play baseball.
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Reality Time
March 4th, 2009
12:14 pm
Dear God man, get over Smoltz. Please do not write another word about him until he throws a meaningful pitch somewhere.
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Larry
March 4th, 2009
1:07 pm
“All of that said, what tragedy involving a sport personality affected you the most, and why was it so difficult to handle?”
None, Terence, as I was taught at a young age to never practice idolatry. Further, even though few enjoy sports more than me, I keep it all in perspective and find it laughable that men with double digit IQ’s, earrings, and tattoos are worship such that we sit in tiny little seat at stadiums or arenas while they make 5, 10, even 25 million dollars a year to play with a ball. And, Terence, we all know you’re not the sharpest pen on paper by writing “This makes it worse: Sports figures are involved.” I can assure you, goober, that for the loved ones of those who die tragically it could not be any “worse” to those loved ones left behind regardless of whether they play ball or not.
It just in the news, Terence! Got it?
Whew!
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Fractional Frank
March 4th, 2009
1:38 pm
It’s truly amazing how consistently wrong you are. It’s the fame, Terence, whether it comes from sports or somewhere else. It’s the fame, not the sports. Get it? Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, James Dean, Richie Valens, the Big Bopper and Buddy Holly. The more famous, the more attention. These guys, not so famous, the attention is fading already. It’s harsh, but factual. So, spare us your golly-geez-sports-tragedies-grab-us-more-than-others wrongness. It’s the fame, Teri, no matter from where it flows.
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bali
March 4th, 2009
2:16 pm
Enter your comments here
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bali
March 4th, 2009
2:20 pm
I hate to say this but your article may have been the most tastless sports story I have ever read. It is hard for me to believe someone did not stop this from ever appearing in print. What is my number one sport ’s story tragedy……..wow…………
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Micah
March 4th, 2009
2:58 pm
It’s funny that everybody is avoiding the truth here. Fractional Frank, you’re right, but Moore was looking at it from this one perspective. Since this is a sports column then lets look at it from this perspective. Lord forbid that any one of us are in the same situation, but if we were in this situation, yeah it would be on the news but for how long?
While I don’t always agree with T. Moore and I could care less about what he usually says, he is telling the hard truths. It’s like people in this country think we are always so compassionate, and this is not always true. It may seem harsh but he is making a point that really does make sense. It doesn’t change the fact about what happen and how the family feels, and those watching, but it this were to happen to the average Joe, it would not be espn, nfl.com, foxsports.com, and it wouldn’t even be on Channel 2 that long or Fox 5 or any other mainstream news station.
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Too Easy
March 4th, 2009
3:32 pm
Sad when anyone dies, but I’m not ‘captivated’ by it.
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Dbalcer
March 4th, 2009
3:37 pm
I don’t worship anyone on earth but I do find this story tragic. These were young men who were lost in the prime of their life. I hope they find them alive but it appears that won’t happen. May God be with their families. I think that senseless deaths of young people always tugs on the hearts of people of compassion. I think to try to denigrate those who died is unconscionable.
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Coastal
March 4th, 2009
3:55 pm
Amazing how much hate is thrown towards Moore, yet all of you continue to read his work. He has been in this business for a long time, so he must be doing something right. I think this article is spot on. How many times do we click through the TV channels, see some John Doe thats been killed, and continue to channel surf without thinking twice about John Doe. Yet, two NFL players get lost at sea and its breaking news for a week. Don’t tell me people aren’t “captivated”, because if they weren’t, it wouldn’t still be in the headlines.
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spotts
March 4th, 2009
4:12 pm
I actually think you’re right, Terence. People drown or die in tragedies every day. But right now, only one story is making the news (both sports news and nationoal news) and that’s the story of the NFL players lost at sea. Yes, it’s sad whenever someone dies in an accident like this. And it’s devastating to the friends, families, and community of the victims. Those stories will sadden us, but won’t really capture our interest. When it’s a sports star…someone we see on TV and sometimes admire, then we’re captivated.
Someone on the sports vent the other day said something like “God bless the Coast Guard for searching for those lost men.” The Coast Guard does work like this EVERY DAY but no one really mentions it until something like this happens.
I’m no diehard Terrence Moore fan, but it seems like everyone here has made up their minds that they hate him and will find every possible argument to make with him.
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Deb B
March 4th, 2009
6:01 pm
This is a most tragic case and did not have to happen!
I cried when I read that story, and thought, what were they doing in rough seas, anchored? By what the survivor said, they did not have life jackets on. I would think a 21 foot fishing boat did not have much ‘free board’, this is the distance between the water line and top of the boat, which protects the craft from taking on water in high seas. A Boating Safety course should be required when anyone purchases or registers a boat, whether a motor boat or sail boat of any size. My prayers go out to the famiies.
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Terence Moore
March 4th, 2009
6:15 pm
I appreciate the thoughtful comments. This is a serious subject, and some of you have taken it as that. Thanks. I particularly appreciate the fact that you’ve taken the high road.
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Gbal
March 4th, 2009
6:52 pm
WHY – Because the press makes them out to be GOD. Any incident like this is a true tragedy, but you guys make such an incident to an athelete to be so much bigger than to the normal JOE. An then ask such a dum question?? What a nothing you are to write such.
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Baracked the vote!
March 4th, 2009
7:28 pm
Terrie,
these aren’t tragedies they are accidents. let’s keep events in perspective
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JR
March 4th, 2009
7:53 pm
For me personally, I was 7 years old, on August 2nd 1979, when I heard the news that Thurman Munson had died during a crash while in his plane. I was crushed…my two cousins and I, all devoted Yankee fans were in tears. It was gut-wrenching as it was the first death of someone who meant something to me, in my life, either on a personal level or a person i admired from afar. I cried myself to sleep that night and was miserable for the whole next week. I cried watching on TV the ovation he received versus the Orioles the next day…i cried again when all the Yankees went to the funeral.
I suppose it affected me so much because as i said, it was the first “death” of anyone in my life that i felt mattered to me on any level. I mean, I used to be able to emulate Munson’s stance and swing perfectly (and all the other Yankees) he was the Captain, he was a hell of ballplayer in general and really the heartbeat of that team.
When i think about it, i probably would have been just as crushed had it been Graig Nettles or Chris Chambliss…mainly because to me at that age, there was the Yankees and nothing else. I didn’t care about hockey or basketball and while i loved football, i was not attached to any team.
I guess when you are 7 there aren’t many people to look up to in the public eye and actually pretend to emulate, at least back in those days.
Movie Stars weren’t that important to a seven year old and though i loved KISS when i was seven, it was not the same feeling you got back in those pre-internet, pre MTV days.
Sports seemed much more real, and you could do what they were doing and pretend to be them i suppose.
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Chris Broe
March 4th, 2009
8:11 pm
I cried when Mickey Mantle said he should have taken better care of himself. “But you’re Mickey Mantle” I thought. I was shattered.
My dad told me he cried when Babe Ruth died because he knew The Babe didn’t take care of himself, either.
I cried the day I read about how Ty Cobb’s dad was shot to death climbing through a window in his own house by his wife’s lover who thought he was shooting at a burglar/peeping tom guilty of coitus interruptus.
Take care of yourself.
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jwb
March 4th, 2009
11:47 pm
“Plus Escobar is th eonly everyday player that can actually play baseball.”
That Larry something fellow seems to know what he’s doing on the ballfield.
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Bill in VA
March 5th, 2009
12:08 am
Yes, it’s the fame. Whether the fame comes from any part of the entertainment, sports, political, etc. world, it’s the fame. God rest their souls.
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MTB
March 5th, 2009
7:32 am
Wow! How can another human being wished such ill will on others regardless on if they deserve it or not BravesFan79? You wishing ill will against someone who is of “low character” says what about you
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Terrell
March 5th, 2009
7:37 am
Terrie,
these aren’t tragedies they are accidents. let’s keep events in perspective
========================================================================
Hey Baracked the vote (stupid screename) the definition of a tragedy is:
a lamentable, dreadful, or fatal event or affair; calamity; disaster. This was a dreadful and fatal event. Thus making it a tragedy. Show some heart and respect.
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dgroy
March 5th, 2009
9:15 am
Terence Moore, you’ve got to be the biggest idiot that ever wrote a sports column for the Atlanta Papers. Just because someone chooses to play sports doesn’t make that person’s death or tragedy any worse than the person that chooses to actually do something constructive with his/her life. Man, you need to do a little soul searching…..dig down deep and find out why you feel this way or do you write columns like this just to get reactions? If that’s the only way you can get someone to read your 500 words, you need to seriously think about another vocation.
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Opiner
March 5th, 2009
11:18 am
Its tragic anytime someone dies and I certainly don’t want to diminish the deaths of these 3 young men. But let’s face it. The only reason their deaths are in the news is because we live in a superficial, celebrity driven culture. That’s why. If 2 of them weren’t NFL players would this have been reported? Most certainly NOT! A celebrity or athlete’s death isn’t any more important than the death of anyone else.
The only thing that is shocking to me is how either shallow or flat out stupid we are as a culture. People will remember these player’s deaths and feel a sense of great tragedy over them or over celebrities or athletes that they never even knew. Men like Dale Earnhardt, Thurman Munson,etc.
These same people probably didn’t know or didn’t care about the genocide that went on in Yugoslavia in the 90s that killed 100,000 people or more yet polls showed the majority of Americans didn’t want us to commit forces to stop the genocide. Polls also showed we didn’t want to involve ourselves in stopping the wholesale slaughter of 800,000 Tutsis via machetes and hoes by the majority Hutus in Rwanda 10 years ago. And people absolutely do not care about the mass raping, murder, and general genocide going on today in Darfur, Africa going on at this very moment that has killed about 100,000 people over the last several years.
So while I think the the deaths of these 3 men is tragic it pales in comparison to real tragedies that are going on every single day throughout the world at this very moment in time. Quit wasting news time on the deaths of 3 men when there is so much other serious stuff going on all over the world every single day.
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Opiner
March 5th, 2009
11:30 am
Terrence,
One other thing and then I will get off my high horse. These 3 deaths did not captivate the entire world as you posted. About a billion people a day struggle every day just to have enough to eat that day. I seriously doubt they have the time or inclination to be “captivated” by this non-event when they are just trying to eat for the day.
And lastly, who on earth would idolize someone just because they play a pro stick and ball sport? Would you really idolize someone because they just happen to have the god given talent to be able to make a lot of money by playing a game for a living? We’re talking about people who play a child’s game for a living 6 or 7 months out of the year. They just happen to be on tv and get paid a lot of money to play these games. So what? And to think people actually look up to people like pro athletes? I think some people call them jock sniffers.
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Huh?
March 5th, 2009
12:17 pm
It is newsworty because there were professional athletes involved that are in the public eye. I don’t think anyone would suggest that this is more tragic because athletes were involved. It is absolutely retarded to suggest that. Whenever anyone dies its tragic, but not necessarily newsworthy. There is a difference. This is not rocket science and this is a very dumb column.
I suppose all the major news outlets should spend all their time reporting on obituaries? I mean, we want to make everything fair and don’t want to give anyone special treatment. Geez. What a dumb column.
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Doc54
March 5th, 2009
1:42 pm
I have read your columns for years, and I would like to say I have almost always found your work to be thought provoking, even when we may have differing opinions. Your assessment is correct in the notion that society as a whole follows stories such as these with more interest when athletes or other famous personas are involved. I was in Florida on vacation several years ago when the Coast Guard recovered the two Clayton County firefighters who perished when their boat overturned in a similar fashion. The situation was no less tragic, but other than the AJC, the story did not appear anywhere else. Such stories remind us of our own mortality and when they involve people who are “famous” it makes them seem even more tragic.
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Andyman
March 5th, 2009
1:50 pm
All of that said, what tragedy involving a sports personality affected you the most, and why was it so difficult to handle?
I’ve never been affected by anything related to an athlete, but Skip Caray’s passing made me sad. I think the reason for that is the fact that I can’t remember a time in my life that he wasn’t calling Braves games. My earliest memory of Braves baseball on TBS was 1977. I was 7 years old at the time, so I basically grew up listening to Ernie, Pete, and Skip.
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Coastal
March 5th, 2009
2:09 pm
I ask again, if you people dislike Moore so much, why are yall reading his blog? Not exactly sure how Moore is rated, but i’m guessing his blog views are looked at. So everytime you trolls come on here to bash him, his views go up, which is what he is paid make happen.
Score:
Moore – 1
Booger-eating, Moore hating trolls – 0
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AC
March 5th, 2009
4:09 pm
I think Fractional Frank had it correct. Fame is the greatest reason. That, and a zealous media looking for anything to improve ratings. Why is the tragic death of a little girl in Orlando any more devastating than the hundreds of children who die tragically across the world every week? Does Nancy Grace have anything else to talk about? Do old ladies in Peoria have anything else to do than watch this exploitation? I am so sick and digusted at all of the hype that tragedies like this create. One thing is for sure, if people wouldn’t watch it, they would stop exploiting it. I, for one, am done!
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Baracked the vote!
March 5th, 2009
6:40 pm
Terrell (stupid screen name)
I was using Merriam-Webster’s online dictionary, which is pretty good standard for me. tragedy: a disastrous event . It is not matter of showing heart. Like I said, just keeping events in perspective. 4,000 soldiers dying in Iraq is a tragedy.
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BnB
March 5th, 2009
10:08 pm
I guess the first “sports tragedy” I recall really hitting home was when the Witchita State football team was killed in a plane crash in 1972. there was a photo of a helmet in the wreckage. this and maybe the murder of the Israeli athletes at the 72 Olympics. the latter was, of course, different in nature. the fact that the guys were famous and as athletes somehow maybe more “alive” than the accountant next door or the woman who works at the dry cleaners. But once the story is out there the fact that they are ball players becomes less relevant. I recall myself having been out on a deep sea fishing trip and a storm coming on quickly and unexpectedly like this and us being scared we were going to drown–all my male in laws and my seven year old son. Maybe that is why this particular story has really tugged my heart strings. Young people cut down in the prime of life. A day of fun and fellowship turned to tragedy. Imagining the lonely feeling dying out in that water or watching the other guys drift off. If this story doesn’t touch you then you may already be dead.
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Dr Henry
March 5th, 2009
11:51 pm
Good column Terrence…but I don’t think sports tragedies are any worse than any other…I will be interested to know how the young man who survived fares…survival guilt can be extremely tough. Sports tragedies do seem to shock us sometimes as we feel that these young people are so healthy and strong that nothing can happen to them.
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Ted
March 6th, 2009
1:26 am
They print this in the papers or make it big news on TV because people, fans, etc. can recognize the one’s involed. It sells because it grabs your attention. If you can’t relate to sports, entertainment, and poltical figures then pass it by. Most people take an extra look… hence this story.
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ceph
March 6th, 2009
6:36 am
It is only because the press(i.e. you) keep it on the front burner, otherwise it would go the way of the wind just like any other death.
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Ross
March 6th, 2009
7:33 am
One is always astonished by the extraordinary ignorance and hostility of Georgians for the most part – and these are the ones that can write. Mr. Moore places a thoughtful question and is answered with ridicule. No wonder we lost the Civil War.
Now, the answer to Moore is clear – any time someone the Gods have favored is laid low, it has the elements of tragedy. In their youth, sports figures have what seems to be a free pass in life – health, vitality, money, adoration from strangers. When it is snatched away and they are revealed to me as mortal as we are, our reverie is shattered.
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gatorsam
March 6th, 2009
9:07 am
Enter your comments here
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gatorsam
March 6th, 2009
9:10 am
It is very simple. The teams roars when a guy practices a dunk, but when he practices free throws, if he does, he is probably by himself. Coaches don’t make the players practice free throws on
their time!!
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Mac
March 6th, 2009
9:29 am
For people making millions of dollars, it behooves them to spend hours of their own time practicing shots that routinely make the difference in winning or losing. As you astutely said, Terence, they’re free throws.
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Veteran Fan
March 6th, 2009
9:48 am
Terrence, everyone says these players are so talented versus players from the past, BULL! I have been a Hawks fan for 36 years and it just keeps getting worse. It would be interesting to take your research one step further and see if there is a connection between free throw percentage and play off spots over the last ten years. One of the reasons Kobe and Michael and all the stars put up big numbers is free throws and making a high percentage! If you are a true professional, you work on your weaknesses not your strengths(see the aforementioned Jordan and consistent outside shot).
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ew11
March 6th, 2009
9:53 am
I definitely agree about the importance of FT shooting and I’m also discouraged by the local teams performance in that area. However, I saw an interesting article the other day about FT percentages:
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/1427978.html
I always assumed that FT percentages used to be much better but this article says they’ve stayed amazingly stagnant. I didn’t do any research to check his number but I know I was very surprised by this.
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RedTailHawk
March 6th, 2009
10:02 am
Terrance – Do they practice free throws in game type situations? In other words, can they stop practice in the middle of tiring drills and try to shoot while breathing hard? Do they try to distract the players while they are shooting like in games? Do you think that would help?
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Terence Moore
March 6th, 2009
10:07 am
Veteran Fan,
You bring up a good point. Most of the great players were wonderful free-throw shooters. That’s why Wilt Chamberlain was such a celebrated exception to the rule.
And to ew11, that was an interesting article on FT percentages. Thanks for the link.
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Terence Moore
March 6th, 2009
10:11 am
RedTailHawk,
You need to pass your suggestions on to the Hawks, Jackets, Bulldogs and Panthers. Great points. We used to do much of that for my basketball teams back in the day.
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FJR
March 6th, 2009
12:00 pm
My high school team were generally excellent free-throw shooters, even our big men. What our coach had us do was alternate shooting 10 free-throws and then running suicides for each free throw you missed, it meant extra suicides for the whole team. And we couldn’t end practice until every player had made all ten in at least one trip. His major idea was two-fold:
1) simulate the pressure of in game free throws as much as possible. having to extend practice and do extra suicides is a pretty big amount of pressure, as much as you can probably simulate in practice.
2) A lot of the issue with free-throws in game is leg fatigue. It’s one thing to just walk up to the free throw line and sink 91 out of 100 there by yourself. Its quite another to do that after you’ve been running up and down the court for an hour. This is another reason I believe that running teams have a harder time with free-throws than more half-court oriented teams. They run more, thus their legs get more tired, thus their free-throw shooting suffers. Our coach wanted to simulate in game leg fatigue, so that we could help with muscle memory not just on fresh legs, but tired legs too.
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craig miller
March 6th, 2009
2:39 pm
I’m with you. I stink, I mean, STINK at basketball and have never played on a team, and yet I go to the gym now and then and shoot free throws and can hit 6 of 10. How can an NBA player not be able to hit at least 8? I’ve never understood it.
Then again, when was the last time a guy got an extra $10 million tacked onto his contract for good free throw shooting?
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Paul Houghton
March 6th, 2009
3:07 pm
Fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals. It’s all about flash now. Nothing flashy about making free throws – oh, except it’s the difference between winning and losing.
I wonder how many players would rather look cool losing than give up the attention and win. I wonder…
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Rick Moore
March 6th, 2009
4:23 pm
After coaching high school boys in Ga for thirty years , I can tell you that poor FT shooting is a direct result of the ESPN/AAU influence on players. You don’t see highlights of clutch made FT’s, and you don’t have many AAU guys who can or will teach shooting fundamentals. Most players are not willing to put in the repititions it takes to groove correct shooting mechanics. The guys you see on TV in the NBA or D1 college were so physically talented that most of them are not forced to learn to shoot. They thrive with the dribbling/driving/dunking game until they get to a level where they are not more talented physically than everyone else. Lebron is much better shooter now because he had to become better. In an article in SI last month, he talks of working on his mechanics at very close range to create muscle memory. Most young guys will not do that. They back out too far (usually the 3 pt line) and their mechanics go to “heck” and they miss. Then, they give up and go back to their old way b/c it feels more comfortable. Voila! They continue to miss. FT shooting reveals the poor shooting mechanics. Great topic TM.
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jross
March 6th, 2009
11:30 pm
I think the search was handle prematurely, with no confidence at all, but the rescue team did do well with displaying alot of hope. Which is good for nothing, when you have role models/players lost at sea hope is what they needed, hope is what they were looking for, but yet there hope was realied on Trained Professionals who’s training was based on hope. hope is hopeless with out proper training, without proper navigation, without proper preparation. None of these where displayed only hope. No HELP from the NFL, No HELP from other COAST GUARDS from surrounding cities. I guess they where to busy with there on problems its the Gulf Of Mexico its not the Pacific or the Atlantic. The NFL I understand its DRAFT SEASON
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Norm Bonn
March 6th, 2009
11:48 pm
So you think free throws are easy..if that was the case you would not have written on the subject..after all layups are suppose to be easy but they are often missed. but do you write about that?
The answer is simple..free throws are 15 foot shot taken without one being defensed. If a player has a 40-60 shooting percentage from the wing, corner, foul extended etc…then why is he expected to shoot 70-90% from the foul line….. the simple answer is that this person is not a very good shooter….he will perform basicall the same be it free throw or any other 15ft shoot…..
this whole conversation does not make much sense to me…..I played the game and shot around 75% in both areas
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BravesFan79
March 7th, 2009
2:59 am
This article should read…. “why Tyrone cant shoot free throws” because im sure Johnny (sitting on the bench never given a shot” can shoot just fine!
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Bullseye
March 7th, 2009
8:54 am
Free throws and fouls should be removed from the game. It slows down the pace and takes up too much time. Unless, they allow a player to take his or her free throw as a running start from the foul line and sky down to the rim and jam in with a Tommahawk or a nice 360. That way, it could be a free throw down and there would be standing room only crowds. Or, they could use a little trampoline like the mascots .
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gary
March 7th, 2009
10:17 am
It’s all about ME ME ME, and nothing gets more attention than a BIG slam dunk and hanging on the rim. The heck with the team, it’s all about the personal highlights.
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ValdostaMike
March 7th, 2009
11:53 am
If only they would show free throws on SportsCenter, then J’Smooth would might have some motivation to practice free throws.
I have been behind Smith since the beginning, but I really believe we let the wrong Josh go last off season. Smooth needs to grow up!
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Owl Fanatic
March 7th, 2009
2:32 pm
I thought that TM just conveniently left Kennesaw State out of this story because maybe their percentage was too good to be used to make his point. I did some quick research and found that the Owls are shooting 66 percent for eighth place out of 11 team in the Division 1 Atlantic Sun Conference. So this probably would have worked fine in the article. I think probably what happened was that unbelievably TM doesn’t realize that there is a third Division 1 team in the area.
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BravesFan79
March 7th, 2009
3:02 pm
Btw…. good game by GT today… if they play that hard and smart, they can knock off some people in the ACC tourney!
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misterwax
March 7th, 2009
4:04 pm
This is mostly a racial phenomenon… Blacks refuse to learn from whites who know what to do…. If they did; their fellow blacks would deride them for being an Oreo….simple as that in 85% of the cases….Paul Hewitt is learning this in spades….(no pun intended). Blacks by and large don’t care about succeeding in a white man’s world…they care about being black, which is quite stupid; since it makes them losers….
Go Jackets!!
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Ken Stallings
March 7th, 2009
8:15 pm
Great column! You are very right Terence, and I will say this and perimeter shooting have both suffered. When I watch classic games up to the mid-eighties I am forced to say it was a better played game then. Pop in a video of a Magic-led Lakers team and marvel at how efficiently they played. I only wish players and teams today could match it. They cannot!
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Jared
March 8th, 2009
3:57 pm
Mr. Moore,
Excellent thought provoking column, this is astute insight! I have always found it hard to believe that someone who plays basketball for a living, full time, can’t hit at least 70% from the “Charity Stripe.” I sat the bench in high school, but still can shoot 65-70%, so the best athletes we can muster should be able to do better.
It would be interesting to see how many games each of these teams would have won if they could have averaged 72%?
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Jeff Grady
March 8th, 2009
4:01 pm
SEC BB is to clogging as ACC is to ballet.
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chuck allison
March 8th, 2009
5:20 pm
Terrance, this is by far the best article you have ever written.
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Ray Miller
March 8th, 2009
10:54 pm
Thanks for a very interesting article Terrance. It seems to me that too many youngsters never develop a Mark Price shot because they spent most of their shooting practice “launching” shots from beyond the 3 point line. Unfortunately, this practice begins with 7 or 8 year old players. They never learn the basic mechanics of a good jump shot that can be deadly from the 12 – 15 foot range. Parents might consider not letting their children “throw” up shots, but teach them how to shoot a fundamentally sound, mid-range jump shot. I think the free throw percentage would improve drastically. Good luck with that dad!!!!
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Chris Broe
March 9th, 2009
1:30 am
Free throws are difficult in your driveway, at the high school gym, and during a pro game. The basket is too small. The ball is too big. The free throw line’s distance is just out of reach for surety. You try making free throws. Practice doesn’t help you at crunch time. People forget about crunch time, yes, crunch time…. free throws. they just don’t mix.
As far as comparing today’s players to yesteryear’s, you cant. Today is more of a wrestling match. They respected the foul in the old days. They mug each other now. It’s unwatchable. I like women’s basketball because they respect the rules. You may not touch the player with the ball at all. Don’t touch him/her. Don’t do it. It’s against the rules. See, there was a movie called “no country for old men” where the theme was that once kids stop saying “sir”, then the whole society goes down hill. I disagree. I think it’s more accurate to say that once basketball players start cheating, then the fans don’t care, and then society goes to pot.
Respect the foul. All I’m sayin’.
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RedTailHawk
March 9th, 2009
11:37 am
Amazing how poor dumb rednecks can change even free throw shooting into a racial issue….LMAO
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Cuz
March 9th, 2009
2:22 pm
I refuse to be baited into making this a black and white issue.
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Georgia Fan
March 9th, 2009
2:33 pm
Oh dear god. Please tell me you weren’t on Jim Rome’s show again.
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Ed
March 9th, 2009
2:38 pm
I don’t care if his brother-in-law is trying to spend this country into ruin (or socialism…not that there’s a difference); if Robinson can lead the Dawgs to victory, I’m all for his hiring.
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Dr. Warren
March 9th, 2009
3:41 pm
Is 7 wins in the PAC-10 really a “miracle”? Nonetheless, seems the Obama connection really would be good for GA basketball. Hopefully, Craig can do some coaching, too, along the way.
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ThaDawgdude
March 9th, 2009
3:43 pm
Good idea, good article. Hope this gets around to the powers that be.
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ByrdDawg
March 9th, 2009
3:56 pm
I don’t know if he’s proven enough, Terrence, but this makes for a good read. We’ll see what Damon does in a few weeks, I guess.
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Superbeav
March 9th, 2009
4:20 pm
“Middle of nowhere”? Nice, keep perpetuating that East Coast bias. Like Athens is the center of the universe? When did UGA move to Atlanta? Clearly you need a little geography lesson. Corvallis is 80 miles from the center of a 2+ million person metro area. Athens is 70+ miles from a similiar (albeit larger) metro area. Are you confusing Corvallis with Pullman? Don’t worry, common mistake for those residing East of the Mississippi. Oh yeah, and Oregon State is the Beavers…in case you were confused…or wondering. Oh, and there is another D-1 program 40 miles away from the “middle of nowhere”. They are known as the Ducks. How far is the next closest D-1 program to UGA???? How do you define “middle of nowhere”?
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JM
March 9th, 2009
4:36 pm
Robinson’s a decent coach but I think UGA can do better. He wouldn’t be a bad guy to settle for, but I’d target 9 or 10 other guys first.
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Dawd Tired
March 9th, 2009
5:07 pm
While I would prefer not to have a socialist for coach I would be ok with it if he keeps his left wing politics to himself.
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EZ602
March 9th, 2009
5:12 pm
Middle of nowhere?? You mean like Athens? You need a little help with geography.
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Baracked the vote!
March 9th, 2009
5:23 pm
Does the U of GA have a basketball program?
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Kyle
March 9th, 2009
5:27 pm
What would the plan be? Spend every dime UGA has and see if somehow you can make a profit ( a winning season I guess in this case) in the end. I’ll pass. He is where he belongs….a blue state.
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Mike
March 9th, 2009
5:40 pm
How about spend nothing, cut tuition, and just see what happens … all while the student body is decreasing by 7% each month.
Brilliant Kyle!
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dap01
March 9th, 2009
5:46 pm
???
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Vandy
March 9th, 2009
5:50 pm
SuperBeav…settle down. I grew up in Athens and went to school at OSU…..Corvallis IS kind-of in the middle of nowhere. You cant expect everyone in the nation to know the difference between Corvallis and Pullman either. It’s not bias…Oregon and GA are pretty far apart ya know. Do you know how many people have asked me where Clemson, Auburn, Vanderbilt, etc are since I’ve moved to Oregon? Lots….are they West-coast biased?? No. Dont take offense. Beavs have a good coach and I do think he would be a good fit at UGA…but I also like what he’s done for OSU so I’d just assume him stay where he is.
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Vandy
March 9th, 2009
5:51 pm
Oh good grief Kyle…..blue state/red state, whatever it has nothing to do with basketball.
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G.W. Beaver
March 9th, 2009
6:03 pm
Let me be the first from Beaver Nation to warn UGA supporters of Craig Robinson. You don’t want him to be your coach. Here’s a list of things that people don’t want to hear in Corvallis about their beloved miracle worker.
1. Contrary to belief, Jay John left the Beavs with a ton of talent. Coach John was stuck with undesirable facilities and a non-existent home crowd. John Wooden couldn’t have won a game in Corvallis last year with the fab five.
2. His socialist coaching philosophies have bankrupt the OSU athletic budget. The guy coddles and bestows entitlement on his players and all it got us is 7 wins in the weak Pac-10.
3. Did I mention everyone is annoiting him the savior of OSU hoops by winning 7 Pac-10 games. That’s like winning 2 games in the WCC.
4. How far can the backdoor-motion-Princeton offense and a 1-3-1 zone defense take you anyways? I’ll tell you. 7 wins in the WEAK A$$ Pac-10!
5. If UGA were to sign him as a coach they would have to pay the $1 million buyout clause. That’s like scheduling OSU to play in UGA in football in Athens and then losing the gimmie game. That is a no-win situation if their ever was.
6. He’s a liberal. He doesn’t just want his team to win. He wants everyone to win. So while us OSU fans had to put up with 11 loses in conference, Robinson played it off like everyone won 18 games because everyone is a winner just for stepping on the court.
7. He wants to change the school colors from Orange and Black to red and yellow. No word on the hammer and sickle or stars for the new logos.
8. I don’t think he likes white people.
9. He used to work on Wall Street. Talk about a show stopper on trust.
10. People on the “left” coast love him. When have they ever got anything right?
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Gregory D Martin
March 9th, 2009
6:09 pm
The problem is that free throw shooting has NOT changed in the NBA or NCAA Division over the last 50 years. Declining free throw skills is a myth or mass misperception. The Charlotte paper had and article about this recently. NCAA 2008 FT% 69.1%. NCAA 1968 FT%- 69.1%. Did you actually research any statistics? Furthermore, basketball at the upper levels involves more running and intense defense than decades ago- thus more fatigue which makes free throw shooting more difficult.
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Vandy
March 9th, 2009
6:10 pm
G.W….congrats! That post earned you the “Richard Cranium” award for the day. Good job!
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M Blank
March 9th, 2009
6:23 pm
….. and I suppose your next fine suggestion will be to change the UGA Mascot to a Portuguese Water(Bull)Dog? …. and while we are at it maybe we can just stop keeping score … that winners/losers thing is really a self esteem deflater right? The last thing we need is another Obama ‘up in our business’ so I vote NO …. unless,of course,he is willing to work for less than $400,000 per year … that’s the Obama salary cap right? That would save us about 1.6 mil.
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Vandy
March 9th, 2009
6:30 pm
I guess it’s silly to think this blog would be used for anything other than republican whining. Have fun wallowing in it.
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Superbeav
March 9th, 2009
6:31 pm
Vandy, no offense taken. I don’t expect everyone to know where all those schools are located geographically, but I would expect a “sports columnist” who covers college athletics to know. I’ve been to Athens and enjoyed myself. But it is a bit of a trek from Atlanta, in a similar fashion as Corvallis is from Portland. Neither of these places would I describe as “middle of nowhere”. A bit more rural maybe…. definitely not urban areas.
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Ogeechee Dawg
March 9th, 2009
7:01 pm
Saw a piece on him – and it was impressive.
Team is much improved – players respected and revered him.
If he can coach and focus on education – at least he’s earned an interview.
Please don’t make this a political or race issue. We are all Americans and we are all guarenteed our right to an opinion and free speech. I would think Coach Robinson would be professional enough to focus on his true love – teaching and winning basketball games.
What I care about is how affective our next coach will be as a teacher/mentor – it will show up in wins/losses and graduation rates…..and I want both – wins and graduations.
Felton did wonders at Western KY – he too was a disciplinarian and focused on academics – and I wish it worked out for him.
What about Calapari or Capel?????
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otisfirefly
March 9th, 2009
7:07 pm
From a Dawg fan that lives in Birmingham. I would like to see Mike Anderson get a shot. After watching his teams at UAB, the man runs a succesful program and ……. wins!
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Cuz
March 9th, 2009
7:19 pm
I will live in Mr Robinson’s neighborhood after he tells us how much of the stimulus we will get.
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doc
March 9th, 2009
7:26 pm
UGA can do much, much better.
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Rush Limblahhhhhh
March 9th, 2009
7:31 pm
I don’t care where Craig Robinson coaches. I just want him to fail!!
–Rush
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Kevin
March 9th, 2009
7:39 pm
No thanks!
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Joe
March 9th, 2009
7:42 pm
I say they should try to get Jeff Capel from Oklahoma or VCU coach Anthony Grant.
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Glenn Griffin
March 9th, 2009
7:52 pm
Well T. Moore him being Obama’s brother in-law dont have anything to do with it. Don’t make this a racial thing. Go after the best man for the job who ever it may be. Most in Ga. aren’t Obama fans anyway at least that what the polls proved.
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NObama and No Brother in law
March 9th, 2009
8:08 pm
It would be just one more reason to hate the dogs!
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gp295
March 9th, 2009
8:11 pm
I think he would make a good coach and demonstrate his basketball skill and his learning criteria will help in the classroom.
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upstate dawg
March 9th, 2009
8:17 pm
Terrence, I did not think of this but what a great article and suggestion. Craig Robinson is a great coach and even better person. I hope Damon Evans has the same idea. And yes I am a UGA grad-white male from the Southeast, and I am all about Barack and Michelle Obama. Don’t pay any attention to these idiots on here talking about socialism and race-your story had absolutely nothing to do with race and they know not what they speak of. Keep up the good work! Your honesty is refreshing and sometimes hurts, but you really make me think. Hard for some of these morons on this board to think and reason for themselves-they just listen to and believe everything that Rush Limbaugh and Charles Stanley tells them.
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RAMBLE ON!!!
March 9th, 2009
8:24 pm
The Jayson Blair of the AJC has been itching to write something or anything to mention Obama.
I wonder if Obama lies to him as often as he does to the American Public…you know, campaign finance reform, earmarks, shutting down gitmo (its still open and it will be a year from now), pulling troops out of Iraq immediately, not having sex with that women (opps wrong President), Hope and Change (killed all hope and has change nothing in politics), etc…Stay tune he’s only been in office for 2 months.
Wow, almost had a .500 season and he’s head coach material. Sounds like a Felton Jr. to me. Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good article Terence, I mean Jayson.
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RAMBLE ON!!!
March 9th, 2009
8:26 pm
as usual upstate dawg, no one has mention race except you. Put the card back in the deck.
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NOBAMA AND NO ROBINSON
March 9th, 2009
8:28 pm
I say go after Mike Davis. He has rebuilt an absent program at UAB and proved he coach in big games at IU. Or take a shot at the head coach at VCU, sorry dont remember his name. All of these coaches have something in common…PROVEN RECORDS!!
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The Truth
March 9th, 2009
8:38 pm
sounds like a great candidate. we’ll see what evans thinks. many ppl on this blog need to have a lot more class and stop dropping the negative race card.
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Thunder Dawg
March 9th, 2009
8:42 pm
Clarence, You finally convinced me—You’re on Crack !
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Eugene
March 9th, 2009
8:46 pm
Terrence: why bring the “stink” in DC any closer to Athens,Ga. Leave him 3000 miles away. Is there a “buyout clause” for the present president? I’m sure we could raise it!!
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NASCAR and Bulldawg libertarian
March 9th, 2009
8:48 pm
Ha. A good read. As far as Obama, I voted for the other guy. I absolutely respect the office and as far as the man–I disagree with most all of his ideas, but he is not Clinton. I respect the man too.
I think it would be kind of cool for the Obamas to be DAWGS!! I however am not a basketball coach recruiter so I don’t even have an opinion. I do my job well and thousands of people trust me to do it well. I trust Damon and the athletic board to do their jobs well too.
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inveniojacket
March 9th, 2009
8:49 pm
You people are idiots. T. Moore never made this about race or politics. He simply mentioned that Robinson is the First Lady’s brother. Nothing more, nothing less. I think he would be an excellent fit for u[sic]ga.
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CulvDawg79
March 9th, 2009
8:55 pm
Why would you want Peavy to come to the Braves when we would have to give up great young talent in Escobar and Hanson. Hanson will be the next Peavy and Burnett rolled into one superstar of a young pitcher. Wren and the Braves have made some good moves and I am excited about where the club is heading.
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TripleDawg
March 9th, 2009
8:55 pm
Terence,
This idea had not crossed my mind, but I certainly like it. Robinson is a great coach, and if nothing else, it would put butts in the seats…
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UGA1
March 9th, 2009
8:57 pm
Soooo, would sending the President, or having him tag along with you, on a recruiting trip be an NCAA violation????
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TheItalianDawg
March 9th, 2009
9:07 pm
good idea, Craig Robinson is a great coach, and folks stop the bullshit about politics. I lived in Italy and Germany and I’m really amazed by how people talk about socialism and clearly they have no idea what socialism is about! dont listen to biased opinions just form your own opinion by researching and reading, united states is not a socialist country and it wont be however socialism in my opinion is not as bad as people fear, if you are true Christian then by nature you should be pro socialism, by definition if you ever gave a charity then you acted as a socialist!! just lookt it up
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ReggieATL
March 9th, 2009
9:08 pm
Terrence Moore wouldn’t no a “scoop” if it him in the forehead. Coach Robinson’s coming here, just like Griffey. Please. Terrence, he literalyl told you know and you still think you’ve got a story. How bout that mystery Griffey cousin????
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Bewildered
March 9th, 2009
9:08 pm
I can’t believe I read thie crap column again. Moore outta be in jail cause he’s stealing from the AJC. If UGA hires that guy, I’m done caring about UGA basketball…..
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Matt
March 9th, 2009
9:21 pm
In all actuality, Terrance Moore might be right on this one. I think that it would send the wrong message to kids in Georgia if UGA were to replace Felton with a white coach. The guy is a great recruiter, and it wouldn’t hurt having the Prez’s ear..:D
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Vance Leavy
March 9th, 2009
9:32 pm
Terence,
As the editor of Bulldawg Illustrated, I can definitely say that the Bulldog Nation is hungary for a hoops team they can rally behind. I watched “CBS Sunday Morning’s story”: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/01/sunday/main4836652.shtml on Craig Robinson and must say he is one impressive dude. I completely agree with you that he would be a great fit in Athens and hope your column is taken noticed by Damon Evans.
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BravesFan
March 9th, 2009
9:51 pm
Matt, you’re an idiot.
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upstate dawg
March 9th, 2009
10:02 pm
RAMBLE ON, if you had thoroughly read the comment I made I said that Terrence’s column was not about race. I never pulled the card. There is nothing to put back in the deck. Oh yeah thats right you can’t read letters, you can only add and subtract numbers….go pound sand you engineer gnat nerd
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WestPalmDawg
March 9th, 2009
10:04 pm
As TM would say, the Dawgs would love to have the “First Brotha’ in-law”
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BubbaEArlDawg
March 9th, 2009
10:04 pm
Good idea. Get a coach who would leave a school after one mediocre season. If he has a good season at Georgia, he would immediately leave again like Tubby and if he sucks, you couldn’t fire him because he will get the Obama entitlements and a new house.
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Cameron
March 9th, 2009
10:20 pm
Of course Terrance Moore, of course. Why you are still allowed to write for this paper is beyond me. If they continue to let you, can you say “Rocky Mountain Press.”
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ValdostaMike
March 9th, 2009
10:20 pm
“Miracle worker”… that’s sounds to be a stretch. Perhaps you are just sucking up to the man, TMoore. I fully support UGA hiring an African-American coach, because the best candidate will probably be an African-American. Let’s not hire a coach because his militant sister is married to the President. Let’s hire a coach because he is worthy of being a coach at The University of Georgia. Let’s hire him because he WANTS to be the Head Basketball Coach at The University of Georgia. Let’s hire a coach because we believe he is the BEST person for the job. Personally, the more I learn about Grant, the more I like him.
TMoore, hope Ms. Comrade Tucker bought you lunch for this one!
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Corey
March 9th, 2009
10:25 pm
Beav, please tell me you’re not comparing Corvallis to Athens…I grew up in Oregon and went to Washington…you KNOW that OSU is the middle of nowhere…almost as much as Washington State.
I did my MBA at UGA and believe me…Corvallis is definitely no Athens, you should maybe visit and see why it’s generally ranked one of the top 5 college towns in the US. Seriously.
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Get Real
March 9th, 2009
10:35 pm
The Backwoods, racist, rednecks in Georgia would never have Robinson as coach. Simply due to who his brother-in-law is. Anyone ever looked on Wooten’s blog? UGA is in the SEC for crying out loud!!! They should have a team in the tournament every year. Whenever they stop splitting the football/basketball money 90/10, and hire a good coach they’ll be ok.
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JimDawg
March 9th, 2009
10:36 pm
Heck, why not? He is probably also more qualified to be prez than his brother-out-law….
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seriously?
March 9th, 2009
10:40 pm
Wow. i love you dilusional fans talking about trying to get Capel from OU or Calipari from Memphis. What in the world makes you think they would leave top 5 programs with first class facilities in Norman or Memphis respectively to head to Athens, Ga to play in a barn of a basketball gym (Stegman is by far the worst basketball facility in the SEC, Auburn is a close 2nd but they are building a new one)? Get real. A guy like this is the BEST you could possibly hope for. Your program always has been and always will be a joke. Just accept it and watch the women’s team.
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Cleatus
March 9th, 2009
10:41 pm
No, he cheats. not everyone gets an ivy league education. he cheated by going to princeton. harrick was a cheater. we don’t need to go back there. how many points is a 3 point basket worth?
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Terence Moore
March 9th, 2009
10:42 pm
Here’s something else about Craig Robinson: He’s a very charismatic guy. You need that to help Georgia basketball move from underneath that huge shadow left by the football team.
He and Mark Richt would co-exist well. That’s because, even though Robinson has a dynamic personality, he isn’t overbearing.
It would be a great move.
I still think Tubby Smith would jump at a chance to return, so I wouldn’t mind that one, either.
Tubby or Craig. Both great moves.
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hop
March 9th, 2009
10:43 pm
i think the key word used by uga is a proven winner as coach. i don’t think color or race is a preference,but someone who can put georgia basketball on the map.
i just hope that dr.adams has any veto power ,after his influence with hiring of jim harrack!
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Cleatus
March 9th, 2009
10:45 pm
as a cheater, he might bet earmarks for a new basketball coliseum for uga. it’s cheating and disgusting. them damn swimsuits.
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BravesFan
March 9th, 2009
10:48 pm
Get Real, what is your school?
The Tubby boat has already sailed!
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TMoorecansuckit
March 9th, 2009
10:51 pm
Who gives a damn. Yet another speculative piece of crap from Terence. Can’t wait for the AJC downsizing to make some cuts in the sports section.
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Dawgfan56
March 9th, 2009
10:53 pm
While we are delusional and dreaming, let’s get Coach K. Obviously we are the top job in basketball. Oh this TMo’s blog, let’s get a black coach, maybe Tubby or Hewitt. They dont use any advantages over other coaches. Not facilities, big cities,swimsuits, practice facilities,tutors, or even video of jumpshots. No, that would be cheating and disgusting. HAHAHA, it’s funnyhow this comment will ad to the AUC’s ad revenue and Tmo’s relevance.
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Smitty
March 9th, 2009
10:53 pm
That’s really funny – did you hear the comments on “The View” regarding the incorrect grammar of O’Bama. Perhaps Robinson would make a better president:-)
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Jacob
March 9th, 2009
10:55 pm
Terrence, you are a race baiting, prejudiced, bigoted, white hating, morally decrepit, pathetic excuse for a journalist and should be banned from the AJC. You are THE reason I no longer PAY for the AJC, and as long as you are employed there, I never will again. You moronic, idiotic, uninformed, excuse for a writer; I think your opinions are like b$$$h%%%s, you have one, and it stinks.
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Dawgfan55
March 9th, 2009
10:56 pm
Cant wait til AJC = NYT and goes bye-bye! Maybe a decent paper like the Macon Telegraph will syndicate in the ATL!! If not, thereis always ESPN.com which has better local coverage than this fish wrap.
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sansho1
March 9th, 2009
11:04 pm
“Socialist coaching”. Please let that be satire. Just when you think you’ve heard it all….
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Clint
March 9th, 2009
11:09 pm
I could care less who his brother in law is. The fact is that he went 7-11 in the Pac 10. Washington was terrible in the Pac 10 last year, and won it this year. Point being, that it doesn’t take much to improve in that conference. You’ve got UCLA and then nobody. Arizona is down, USC is down, Washington St, is down. The Pac 10 is a bad conference. UGA hiring this guy equals Auburn hiring Chiznik. The only exception being that Chiznik had ties to Auburn and the southeast.
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Ben Johnson
March 9th, 2009
11:09 pm
come on Vance.
‘hungry’, not ‘hungary’
and replace ‘hope your column is taken noticed by Damon Evans’ with ‘hope Damon takes notice of your column’
aside from being a smart a*s, I agree he’d be better for the Dawgs than his brother in law is for the US.
let’s play some golf this spring.
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Rev. Wright
March 9th, 2009
11:20 pm
can we get some stimulus $ to build a new arena ?
and let’s be sure to check his tax returns and whatnot before we hire him… jus sayin’
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Diggity Dawg
March 9th, 2009
11:33 pm
<>>
I believe we did schedule OSU in football, but the Beavs bailed.
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2centsdawg
March 9th, 2009
11:37 pm
Are you nuts? Stay as far away from anything Obama as you can. For 2 million dollars we can do much better
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scottbravesfan
March 9th, 2009
11:42 pm
Man, our all republicans this whiny? Your president of the last 8 years just ran the deficit up to 1.7 trillion dollars and ran the economy into the ground and you are worrying about Obama spending too much? Please. Pot calling kettle black scenario if I’ve ever seen one.
And how would want to move from Oregon, one of the most beautiful states in the union to Georgia where it’s 95 degrees 8 months a year and it’s full of religious fanatics who have no tolerance for diversity. Lord forbid you are a muslim or Jew they will think you are the spawn of Satan himself.
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AJ Reser
March 10th, 2009
12:15 am
My Dad attended a high level donors meeting with the Athletic Director here at OSU and the AD out here is considering cutting coaches pay voluntarly at first by 10% to 15% or with some strong persuasion. I guess its a need from keeping from falling in the red here at OSU. Dad was really upset and threatened to pull support because he likes the basketball and football coaches we have here and they are well like by our big dollar boosters.
Donations are way down at our school and band and cheer squads will be cut in the fall along with other programs. Our AD has to sign off on all expeditures no matter how small. Now tell me how we will be able to keep coaches with those restraints? Dad is meeting with the AD again on Friday. I am hoping our AD will reconsider. I will miss the cheerleaders during football season. That sucks.
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seriously?
March 10th, 2009
12:55 am
Ya’ll are some serious haters. This is a very intriguing story and for everyone of ya’ll implying that the T-Mo is only trying to beef up the idea of UGA hiring an African American coach is absolutely absurd. This guy is as good of a candidate within UGA’s realm. Your program is a sub-par SEC school and is a good stepping stone for coaches to get to an elite program (or for a has-been big headed ego maniac such as Bobby Knight). Intriguing article T-Mo, lord knows it’s a stretch to find anything that anybody is going read about Georgia basketball of late. Keep showing your rear-ends in these blogs Georgia fans. Yall are pathetic.
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Rev. Jimmy Jack Bourbon
March 10th, 2009
12:59 am
Mr. Moore: Coach Robinson would be an excellent choice. I usually vote GOP for Prez but voted for his brother-in-law for Prez. I also vote for Coach Robinson. Mr. Evans: What else do we need. Good recruiter. Good coach. Good public relations. Good connection. Too good to be true. I don’t think so. Go for it!
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PHIL
March 10th, 2009
1:26 am
SUPERBEAV, just to clarify for you, Athens is indeed the cultural center of the universe,
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The Really Old Man
March 10th, 2009
1:55 am
Terence, you forgot to mention that the poor dawg team, like all bad things, is ultimately the fault of Bush. And, of course, the ONLY thing that can make anything GOOD is OUR SAVIOR, the MESSIAH, OBAMA. Maybe while the HOLY CHOSEN ONE is solving the dawg’s problems, HE can also send some more “free” bailout money to me. I am out of money, so I need to buy some more of HIS Kool-aid to keep my faith in the change I am supposed to believe in. Amen.
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Jay
March 10th, 2009
5:55 am
Evans cannot “make that call to the middle of nowhere”. He must go through that high priced “search” firm at Perimeter Mall.
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Sandra
March 10th, 2009
6:26 am
Great, that is all we need. To have fans that are not really fans of the basketball team. The stadium will be filled to see if the President and First Lady will be there- not to see the Bulldogs play. Not fair to the kids.
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USMC DAWG
March 10th, 2009
6:50 am
Oh great, here we go. Now UGA is damned if they do, damned if they don’t. They just fired a black coach. Now TM is politicking for Obama’s brother in law. If Robinson does not get the job, standby for the next TM article, “Racism in the UGA Athletic Association.”
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Lew
March 10th, 2009
7:07 am
There is pleanty of talent here in GA, from the players to the coaches. I know this is far fetched, but I have seen Eddie Martin coach High School basketball for over 20 years. Everywhere he has gone he is a winner. It wouldn’t take millions of dollars to bring him up to the college ranks. This can be done, he is highly respected not only locally, but on a National scale. What UGA needs is someone who can pick up the program, and produce a winning team with the talent already in place. EDDIE MARTIN, CAN DO THIS. I have seen him take a bunch of kids with no talent and mold them into a winner.
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Joe Biden
March 10th, 2009
7:39 am
The prez and pelosi met last week. FYI, they are planning on “redistributing” the talent in all sports. Their belief is that it will just be “more fair”. Why should one team have a record of, lets say, 20-0 while another one might be 9 – 11. They just do not believe this is right.
Joey the plugs biden
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Texas_Fight!!!
March 10th, 2009
7:50 am
first off LMFAO at the guy who suggested UGA go after Calipari or Capel…
Explain to me your logic as to why the head coach at MEMPHIS (aka a legit #1 seed and potentially the #1 recruiting class for this year and years’ to come) or Chokelahoma (again a legit #1 seed contender with a HUGE recruiting base/incoming class) would even consider this downtrodden program…
Stegeman is a drafty, old, unattractive, 3/4 empty barn.
You’ll be lucky to get a decent “up & comer” to even consider UGA.
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Texas_Fight!!!
March 10th, 2009
7:56 am
you all sound like a bunch of sour grapes, whiney @ss, FOX News watching neocon’s…
Obama is YOUR Commander-in-Chief, show some respect. Those of you who voted for the last moron (twice) have literally ZERO grounds to even speak as you are directly responsible for the trampling of our constitution and the disappearnce of our civil liberties.
Go thump your Bible and worship your Rush Limbaugh posters…
Douchenozzle’s
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Need A New Dog but . . .
March 10th, 2009
8:08 am
Interesting, Robinson’s been a head coach since ‘06 and he’s the guy for UGA? I’d like to see UGA get a coach with a proven record in a program with at least 5 years so he’s winning with his own recruits and not the last coach’s recruits.
But by all means, hire a guy with 3 years head coaching experience because he’s the President’s brother-in-law. That makes good sense. NOT!
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Herschworld
March 10th, 2009
8:20 am
I don’t know to many Georgia fans that would be thrilled to have an Obama connection to their school…They are the most pretentious, snooby, and racist, people on earth…just ride by the frat houses during election time
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Herschworld
March 10th, 2009
8:21 am
Enter your comments here
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KC Kid
March 10th, 2009
8:24 am
How ’bout Paul Hewitt?
Take our coach — PLEASE!
He’s not related to the Obama’s but he is the president of the Black Coaches Association, so he’s got that going for him.
(Hmmmm…….I wonder who the president of the White Coaches Association is?)
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Sandra
March 10th, 2009
8:25 am
Why is everything racist? Oh- is it because we’re in Atlanta and blacks think they rule???? They do not rule. Hire the coach because of his/her skills. Not their color or relationships.
Atlanta needs to get past all this racist/color crap.
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Old Dawg
March 10th, 2009
8:45 am
There you go again, Terrence. You are the best at bringing race into any sports picture. Granted basketball is a black man’s sport, but UGA desperately needs a coach who can turn this pathetic program around. Why not let Damon Evans and his staff find the best basketball coach available regardless of race? If I remember you were real high on the Felton mainly because he was black. That didn’t quite work out, did it? Oh, I get it. You want the President’s brother in law to get the job so you can take much of the credit and be the big man of sports writers. Yeah, OK. Never mind that the UGA basketball program will still be in the ditch. UGA will have a black coach and one that will be even harder, if not impossible, to fire when he doesn’t perform. God, Terrence, you’re so smart. Maybe you’ll be one of the last to go when the AJC goes belly up. Maybe the first Brother In Law can put in a good word for you?
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GeorgiaDuck
March 10th, 2009
8:49 am
Seven wins in the Pac-10 by Oregon State is huge. They were winless in the conference last year.
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b nice
March 10th, 2009
8:56 am
I’m live in GA and i’m no DAWG fan. I don’t like the dawgs. Craig would be a great asset to GA dawg program. I don’t care if you are a NASCAR, or using that dumb false line about Obama socialism, or voted for the other guy, GA needs a new basketball coach. bottomline! Georgia needs to get over it. Especially when Georgia is in the top three for a high drop out rate in schools and the highest in the country for low test scores. Marinate on that!
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1950s Dawg
March 10th, 2009
9:19 am
Blacks think they rule in Atlanta. Thanks Sandra do you even live intown.
Whites think they rule Alpharetta. They do not rule.
As a member of the DAWG NATION lets hire a Republican coach who
can get all the good private school players and run an Air Force Academy style
offense. We will get 4 years out of them and graduate them on time too.
Since the UGA student body is majority white the place will sell out.
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bill_in_atl
March 10th, 2009
9:20 am
Terence, which white coaches do you think would be great hires? Are there any?
Would you applaud if they could steal Jamie Dixon from Pitt? Sean Miller from Xavier? Anyone?
I’m happy with any PROVEN winner who runs a clean program. If that’s Capel, great. If that’s Dixon or Miller, great. If it’s Anthony Grant, I could accept it I suppose but he is NOT as proven at the level of the others and the hire is SUPPOSED to be a proven winner and money is supposedly no object. We’ll see if they are telling us the truth.
And to the Beaver fans, please understand who wrote this article. He doesn’t know anything about Corvallis and doesn’t care so you shouldn’t take any offense. He’s just trying to write something to get people angry and respond, calling him a racist. It’s all he’s got left for the most part, although in this case I suspect he’s dreaming about being able to meet the Obamas as well.
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Mango
March 10th, 2009
9:26 am
at least he’s not as UGLY as that Michelle! Barry must have been high when he proposed to Michelldabeast! For the first time in my adult life I think the first lady is FUGLY! Oh, and an elitist! If Jimmy Carter sent his kids to public school, why can’t she? BECAUSE SHE KNOWS THAT THEY SUCK!
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Mango
March 10th, 2009
9:28 am
WE NEED MORE WHITES IN THE NBA! It’s a racist culture! MORE WHITES IN THE NBA! Send them colored players to MLB!
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haney
March 10th, 2009
9:32 am
While I don’t mind TMoore writing this article, because I was not even aware of Craig Robinson being the BIL of the President nor that he was a head coach in Div 1, he does NOT fit the description of what Damon Evans is looking for. I don’t think his relationship with the first family is reason to even be in the running for the coaching job in Athens. If I read it correctly, he has been coaching for what about 3-5 years or something. He might be an up and comer but but he is NOT ready to take UGA basketball to the next level YET. Maybe if he had been coaching at Oregon State for 3-4 years and you could see the progression of his coaching but hardly now.
UGA needs to go after Sean Miller, Jeff Capel, or Anthony Grant. Those are guys that I could see taking the job and running with it. My personal choice would be Tubby but I think that ship has sailed.
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Mango
March 10th, 2009
9:45 am
They need to retire that bball squad and spend more money on Fooseball!
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Mac
March 10th, 2009
9:47 am
Sounds like an OK coach, but then again not necessarily more OK than Dennis Felton. Is the fact he’s the President’s brother-in-law an actual job qualification? I don’t think so.
Pass.
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jmcguffey
March 10th, 2009
9:48 am
why alway’s the race issue, MR.Moore
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Mango
March 10th, 2009
9:56 am
No more colored editors! Get rid of them and that Jay boy too!
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ryan
March 10th, 2009
9:57 am
The only reason this article was written is because this coach is Obama’s brother in law. If he was just a regular joe then Terrence wouldn’t even know who this guy is. Clearly Anthony Grant should be numero uno on UGA’s list. Capel isnt leaving Norman for that ugly program in Athens.
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Mango
March 10th, 2009
10:02 am
T-dawg nose sportz! Let he B, Ryon! He B da man in D ATL! so let he be!
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NEVER!
March 10th, 2009
11:03 am
We don’t want to be tied to the SINKING SHIP that is Barack Obama
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O/b/ama
March 10th, 2009
11:04 am
Polls closed due to aids
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HA
March 10th, 2009
11:10 am
This is hilarious….I’ve never seen such a Republican pity party. LOL. No wonder the whole country turned on you idiots….stupid is as a stupid does, right Forest? It was pretty evident that your party was screwed when Palin was picked….and you’re too stupid to know that McCain was actually talking down to you by picking her as a running mate….you should’ve been offended by such a patronizing pick, but, of course that went right over your heads…..I guess she had you at “moose hunt”. LOL. good stuff.
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gagurl1969
March 10th, 2009
11:32 am
I think it’s ridiculous that this article was about basket ball at UGA and it turned into debates about the economy. It took many years for this country to get into this quagmire that we are in but yet Obama was supposed to fix it yesterday? Come on people, get real! Would you all be complaining when McCain had to do some of the same things that Obama is doing to get this mess sorted out. Just a bunch of sore losers who would not want to admit they are wrong.
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Around The SEC East - 3/10/09 | MrSEC.com
March 10th, 2009
11:41 am
[...] have to spendtwice as much on their new basketball coach as they did on Dennis Felton.UGA: Could President Obama’s brother-in-law replace Felton?UGA: Georgia is on the verge of cutting a new media rights deal with ISP Sports that would be one [...]
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SR
March 10th, 2009
11:48 am
Oh God! I wondered how long it would take to draw the Dawgs into the Obama delusion.
What a load of C-R-A-P!
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Dwayne Johnson
March 10th, 2009
11:49 am
politics, politics, politics, Obama has 4 years to fix it, if it aint fixed, and he gets 4 more, so be it. if it aint fixed in 8 years, we will try someone else. i voted for McCain, we lost, i support Obama now. my paycheck has not decreased. i’m happy. you happy? you need a job? can’t get into college? outwork the Mexican’s…Oh, about b-ball, hire Bobby Knight…..wooooohooooo
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bakerman
March 10th, 2009
12:04 pm
Who cares?
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Hmmmmm
March 10th, 2009
12:19 pm
Great post GW…. Nothing more to be said!
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bill_in_atl
March 10th, 2009
12:23 pm
The engine in my car is on fire. I think this is the perfect moment to rip out the old cloth seats and replace them with leather. At the same time I am going to use this opportunity to repaint it red. Simultaneously I will replace the 17 inch wheels with a set of 22s and get a new satellite radio system installed. I expect that the above actions are absolutely necessary to put the fire out and get my car back running properly again.
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mexdawg
March 10th, 2009
12:54 pm
Tubby,Tubby,Tubby Smith…….
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Chidawgo
March 10th, 2009
12:55 pm
Wow. I didn’t think there was anything that could prevent me from being a Georgia fan, but if hell froze over and this hire was made, I wouldn’t watch a single UGA basketball game until he was gone. Obama is doing damage to our country that the next 20 presidents won’t be able to repair, but who cares, our nation is full of stupid people who bite on buzz words like “change” and phrases like “Yes, we can.” I’m already ashamed to be an American, Mr. Moore…don’t make me ashamed to be a Bulldog too.
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MountainDawg
March 10th, 2009
1:19 pm
The Dawgs should be able to do better with the Athletic Department’s budget/boosters deep pockets.
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Pitbull
March 10th, 2009
1:57 pm
And the Atlanta Journal Constitution publisher is looking for answers for the reasons the AJC is losing money and having to downsize.
Hopefully he will read this lame article and experience a revelation.
Terence must have started it 5 minutes before his deadline.
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wayne
March 10th, 2009
2:51 pm
Are you for real? Just can’t believe you are for real. Nuff said.
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Shane
March 10th, 2009
3:23 pm
After eight years of Bush Obama is going to be a breeze
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reservoirDAWG
March 10th, 2009
4:02 pm
This article is ridiculous. DE needs to go out and perform his due diligence, then hire the most qualified candidate. It’s as simple as that. By the way, get out with all of the Obama bashing. It is obvious he is in over his head.
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Chris
March 10th, 2009
4:14 pm
Terrance, once again you have proven that you’re an idiot. When is AJC going to guit letting you write stories about UGA. Everyone knows you hate Georgia, hence you shouldn’t be allowed to post your stupid articles on here.
I don’t know this guy your suggesting for UGA’s next coach, but I think we can do a lot better, and it’s not a racist thing either. I personally think Jeff Capel would be a great candidate if we could lure him away from Oklahoma.
In conclusion Terrance, you have proven once again how stupid you are. I guess your still riding that high since Tech beat Georgia back in November considering you have picked them to do so for like 6 or 7 years and it finally came true. Please, PLEASE crawl back in that whole you came from.
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crackbaby
March 10th, 2009
4:31 pm
Hmmm. Top ten list of Idiots (like Letterman’s Top 10):
Idiot #10 through 2) G.W. Beaver – Jay John and his “ton of talent” went 0-18 in the PAC-10 in ‘07-’08. You blame this on a non-existent home crowd? 7-11 is quite respectable given the prior year with “all that talent”.
Idiot #1) Terrence Moore – Completely irresponsible of you to name drop that you spent 30 mins. w/ rookie coach Robinson and baited him into a response on UGA’s H.C. position. What if some hack journalist from L.A. asked the same of Mark Richt in his 1st season with the Dogs?
I get it – it’s interesting conversation. Nevertheless, you could have introduced the idea without getting Coach Robinson in hot water with OSU admin. and fans. You are a hack journalist with very little creativity and even less intelligence. I have never enjoyed your articles. Didn’t you go to the Indy 500 years ago and make a pre-race declaration that Mercedes engines could never win in their first year at the Brickyard? Didn’t they finish 1st and 2nd that year? Wasn’t that YOU, Terrence?
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GMan
March 10th, 2009
5:21 pm
Damn! I can’t believe that you rednecks would inject political ideology into the selection of a basketball coach. I can hear “Dueling Banjoes” in the background every time you hillbillies write a comment.
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Johnny Obvious
March 10th, 2009
5:50 pm
There are too many THUGZ in Athens already.
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Dawd Tired
March 10th, 2009
7:02 pm
GMan – Dueling Banjoes is a pretty good song.
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radiowxman
March 10th, 2009
8:01 pm
LOL at Texas_fight: “Obama is YOUR Commander-in-Chief, show some respect. Those of you who voted for the last moron (twice)…”
The disconnect is laughable, yet typical.
GMan — The “neocon republicans” weren’t the one who interjected race into the conversation. Terence Moore did that when he claimed that a first-year coach at a middling school 3,000 miles away would be a good choice for UGA because:
1: He’s charismatic
2: He’s related to Michelle Obama.
Hmmm….Maybe I can think of someone who could be a better fit. One with a better track record, perhaps. Hey, how about VCU’s Anthony Grant?
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When is Spring Football?
March 10th, 2009
8:54 pm
Why would Craig come to Athens where few care about b-ball and the coliseum is the worst in the league? I suspect UGA would be better suited to reset their sights on a realistic choice like a D-II coach.
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Dawg1
March 10th, 2009
10:32 pm
Golf game article. Write an article that intriques everyone, but at the end of the day means zip. Go play 18.
Great work if you can get it.
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AJ Reser
March 10th, 2009
10:53 pm
I confident that coach Robinson will stay out here in Oregon. A coach came over to our house and said that a special guest will be attending one of our baseball games out here. It wont be announced but it sounds exciting. Dad, our AD, his friend Darrell Vandehey, Aunt Michelle and Paul Leavey who works with dad are excited about that prospect.
You see my family started in what you would call southerners call a podunk small town of Cornelius, Oregon. It’s a special place for my family. Dad has alot of pull at the university, he says our coaches will be safe. He is very worried about our baseball coach, two times national champions by the way. Rock on!
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BobDog
March 10th, 2009
11:03 pm
I used to date a Superbeav. It was quite an experience. She grew up in the middle of nowhere, but had some special talents.
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loosecannon61
March 11th, 2009
6:45 am
Thanks TM…I was low on TP
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Richard Fields
March 11th, 2009
8:58 am
You are an idiot! How do you keep your job? You don’t crap about sports and you keep playing the race card and every opportunity!
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FalconDawg
March 11th, 2009
10:12 am
Moore, this would be a great grap for UGA. I agree with you, i feel he could lift are program in the right way. As far as him being black or President Obama brother in law i don’t care. Race has never been a problem for me i hate reading these horrible comments. Uga should put full effort in getting him he’s had a nice record in coaching, his recruiting is even better. How good of a chance do we have of landing him Terrance? Me being a white male and a christian i hope we can soon put the race card in the rear view and leave it there. GO DAWGS
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Mr. Larry Ledford
March 11th, 2009
10:29 am
If this man has the same socialist views as OBAMA and his wife,please do not bring him to GEORGIA.Our campus has enough liberals on campus already.I know this is athletics and not politics but,you cannot seperate who you are and what you represent.Let me correct that.I think you can seperate them if you believe there is no right and wrong.If there is no moral standard you think is the truth to guide you, then maybe you can seperate them.PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mr. Evans do not let Mr. Moore have this wish.PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hire someone like Coach Richt.PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Dangerous
March 11th, 2009
11:09 am
Superbeav you can keep your coach! We would much rather have Bob Knight! TM you disappoint once again! SUCK-UP!
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Vandy
March 11th, 2009
11:37 am
**AJ Reser** your Dad makes the best burritos….and the salsa aint half-bad either.
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SomewhereinGA
March 11th, 2009
11:55 am
Terence, They have only gotten the tip of the iceberg there. We have a friend of the family who played with members of our family in all sports growing up. He is now a full scholorship athlete at FSU and laughs when talking with our family, bragging that he has never taken a test while there, nor has he ever written a paper there. He has counselors who do that job for him believe it or not. The academic atmosphere at FSU is a joke and has been for a loooong time. Folks who had the inside scoop on this have known this for years! And NO, he was not one of the 61 caught.
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ValdostaMike
March 11th, 2009
12:00 pm
Terrance, imagine how Jimbo Fisher feels? On the other hand, JoePa has to feeling pretty good right now.
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quicknole
March 11th, 2009
12:17 pm
Well if this is the case then how can Mark Richt be held in such high esteem. Surely if you believe this then the assistants and former assistants are/were part of the problem also. Do some research Terrance and get some more facts. While your at it, look into USC, Tennessee and all the other Div.1 schools see what you find. (Hint, if you don’t look, you won’t find anything).
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D-Man
March 11th, 2009
12:20 pm
If this is all true..it is hard to believe Coach Mark Richt calls this guy a mentor…
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JGray
March 11th, 2009
12:21 pm
I cannot believe I agree with Terrance! I am marking this date on my calendar!
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MinnesotaJacket
March 11th, 2009
12:22 pm
seriously anyone who sits here and thinks that other programs aren’t guilty is lying to themselves.
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gatorsam
March 11th, 2009
12:25 pm
Bobby Bowden claims to be a Christian, as I do. Something needs to be said: he is the biggest hyprocrite I have ever seen. using “dadgummits” instead of curse words doen’t get it done. To Bowden, it has always been about winning no matter what the offense of the player. If the player can help St. Bobby get another win, the player gets a free ride.
I would be embarassed to hang around and be a figurehead coach and take down a great program (built by great assistants) just for the sake of being called the winningest coach in college football. If he loved FSU more than he loved himself, he would have gracefully retired while at the top, not mired in mediocrity and conflict. Keep shining his boots, Jimbo.
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ALLEN ROBERTS
March 11th, 2009
12:26 pm
Georgia tech was caught with far fewer involved and vacated victories, lost scholarships,etc, so does FSU think it is above everyone else. Looks like Free Shoes University is also Florida Saints Untouchable as well.
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HootieSnitch
March 11th, 2009
12:26 pm
There’s another “likeable” coach over in Athens from the same coaching tree as Terry Bowden,Tommy Bowden, and Jeff Bowden.
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Throwing stones
March 11th, 2009
12:27 pm
You mention 4 former players total in your blog Mr. Moore. How about the DUIs on Georgia’s football team every year. How about Georgia Tech and there lack of a compliance office allowing players to become ineligible without letting them know or not checking up on O’Leary’s resume?
Careful before you jump on the pound Florida State bandwagon before reading the whole truth. The reason why they are appealing the vacation of these wins is there is precendent. Oklahoma was allowed to keep its wins from the Rhett Bomar scandal. You remember right? He was getting paid thousands but working only a few hours at a local car dealership.
How about we investigate Georgia Tech and the boosters that were giving Tony Hollings Simon Mall gifts cards during his run? Have you looked into Jumaine Jones at Georgia arriving with a brand new Expedition with 19 inch rims saying only that it was a graduation present?
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Bryan G.
March 11th, 2009
12:46 pm
Hell has frozen over. I think I agree with Terrance. FSU has continually played fast and loose with the rules and at some point someone has to be accountable.
I only hope that Mark Richt does a better job if there is ever a big UGA scandal. Yes, we get a few arrests every year (as does just about every other big school), but we have yet to have a Free Shoes University or problem like Janikowski.
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steve
March 11th, 2009
12:52 pm
Bobby Bowden is too far removed from all the stuff that goes on down there. But that is the problem. In this day and age, you cannot have football coaches who are not willing to be involved with every aspect of the athlete’s college life. I do not think for a minute that Bobby Bowden has ever directly been involved with the various football scandals FSU has had over the years. However, I also do not believe he has been diligent enough to try to keep these scandals from happening in the first place. I like Bobby Bowden, but he should have retired 10 years ago. FSU is out of control and it is going to take a new sheriff and deputy (Athletic Director and Coach) to get it back.
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Heresay
March 11th, 2009
12:53 pm
Apples don’t fall too far from the tree. Birds of a feather flock together.Once bit lest forget. He who plays with fire will be burned. Or as one of my favorites would go FROM THE IMMORTAL FRED G.SANFORD:
“He who playeth with the sword shall get stucketh”
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maybe vs did
March 11th, 2009
12:54 pm
UGA,GT,UT,UK,UA,AU,USC may be, may be in the same boat. We don’t know. What we DO know if that FSU cheats, period. This is proof. Now, let’s get it over with, and go on to proving what the others do.
BTW, the admin at FSU knows that if St Bowden forfeits wins, it’ll be that much longer before he leaves. Believe me, that’s the last thing they want.
And yes, Richt has had problems with wayward players, they have been summaarily dealt with, and no doubt cost us as well.
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MinTallahassee
March 11th, 2009
12:57 pm
Terence – Finally, a columnist with the spine to call-out Bobby. Hopefully the NCAA will also show some spine and deny FSU’s appeal. This penalty is most appropriate as it hurts the identity of the football program which is so intertwined with Bowden’s legacy. Typically the NCAA and the schools gladly stick-it to student athletes by reducing available scholarships, and to fans by damaging the competitiveness of future teams.
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SomewhereinGA
March 11th, 2009
1:04 pm
GatorSam…had to reply to your post….our friend also says that Dadgummit is the biggest cusser at practice he has ever heard…to quote him, every other word is GD or MF. He told me he had never heard GD so many times in his life as when Dadgummit was cussing at practice. Another fallacy about St. Bobby…and that little tidbit has been confirmed by other ‘Noles as well as our friend FWIW.
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not Factual
March 11th, 2009
1:09 pm
First of all T-money if you did your research and not try to put in your own words you would see the aid that gave the answers did not report to the football officials nor did they answer to the Athletic Department, and the investigation by both FSU and the NCAA proved that no coaches had any knowledge that this was going on and when brought to light they players were punished. One thing you fail to mention is that FSU self-reported this to the NCAA, go look up USC and Reggie Bush and the money he was getting. How about you look at the arrest sheets from major colleges. Yes problems exist everywhere but you want to try and bash one guy, good for you on poor research and narrow-minded thinking.
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matt
March 11th, 2009
1:12 pm
For those of you trying to compare some duis and underage drinking to FSU’s rep need to stop. You are trying to compare grown men in a leadership role who are making a pre-determined decision to do whatever it takes to keep their athletes in school and on the field so they can win to 18,19 year old kids getting drunk in a bar. How many of you got drunk and did something stupid??? It’s apples and oranges people!!!
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Eric
March 11th, 2009
1:13 pm
Most self professed Christians I know are hypocrites….football coaches are the least of the exceptions. Mark Richt is a Bobby Bowden waiting to happen. At least Saban doesn’t preach the Gospel, his hypocrisy lies elsewhere.
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Reply to GatorSam
March 11th, 2009
1:18 pm
GatorSam – do you realize how ignorant of a statement that is? Bobby has changed more lives and allowed more athletes and coaches to become Christians than any other coach in college history. The Fellowship of Christian Athletes gives out an honor every year to the person who demonstrates Christian morals on the field. The award is titled “the Bobby Bowden Award”. He led Mark Richt to Jesus Christ and did the same for a TON of others – I’ve heard players tear up when talking about what an amazing man and father figure Bowden is and how he’s changed their lives. He’s had arguably the biggest Christian impact on players of anyone in college football history.
As good of a coach as Bowden is, he is that much BETTER as a person. Wish you could say the same for Urban Meyer or Steve Spurrier.
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Quality Needed at AJC
March 11th, 2009
1:21 pm
once again Moore only reporting on part of the story. Some things never change…
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Swansoer
March 11th, 2009
1:21 pm
Has Terrence ever watched an interview with CR? His eyes are always wide, sometimes almost to the point of popping out. You are making it sound like he is a giddy little boy at the thought of getting to coach at Georgia and when you mention that you think he’d be a great fit his eyes get even wider “really? you think I could have a shot at coaching at UGA? Wowie!”.
Listen if CR leaves OSU I will be sad and I wouldn’t necessarily blame him. But he has done a tremendous job coaching. He took Brown University to their best two year run and best single year ever in their history while coaching there and as soon as he left they had like one Ivy League win this year. He took a 0-18 team that was terrible (bottom 10 shooting percentage in the nation last year, 40 and 50 point losses) and turned out a respectable 7 wins and a number of other games that were close (WSU to overtime) all with the same players. I love a lot of the Players but in reality most should not be in the Pac 10. The man can coach.
Also, Corvallis is a pretty awesome college town. Often ranked as one of the best places to live (7th by Mens Journal top 10 by Parade). Ranked as one of the top 10 places to do business. Rated a bike friendly city. Forbes lists it as the 5th smartest city in the nation. Its one hour from the coast, 1-2 from skiing/snowboarding, 1.5 hours from Portland and an hour from Eugene.
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ACC
March 11th, 2009
1:22 pm
Bowdens been a crook the whole time at FSU, he preaches rightenous, but his players are in more trouble than Miami or UGA. Its about time he get caught, and give it 2 more years and they’ll catch Richt and UGA, didn’t he come from FSU, acorn dosent fall far from the tree. Thats why UGA hired Richt, knew he was like Bowden and UGA loves crooked coaches-Butts, Dooley Harrick and Goff. Thats why UGA cannot get a clean coach to coach them, got to do something illegal as Munson stated once” Dont raise the academics, then we’ll be like Vanderbilt”.
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ean
March 11th, 2009
1:22 pm
Hey everyone…. huge Beaver fan here.
Yes Craig appears to be a good coach with a lot of upside that has proven he can take a dismal program and make it decent. A lot of us at OSU are hopeful that he can take a decent program and make it great… but we will have to wait and see. The Beavs went 0-18 in the Pac-10 last year and won 7 games this year but we in Beaver nation agree that that is a bit misleading because the Pac-10 was top-to-bottom the best conference last year and is WAY down (like about as bad as the SEC is every year…. minus Florida of course) this year after many players left for the NBA (Love, Westbrook, Bayless… to name a few) so that is a part of the reason the Beavs had such a turn around.
I am not sure how much money UGA has to spend on a new coach but Coach Rob (thats what we call Craig Robinson) has a $1 million buyout for another year and a half then it comes down to $500,000… do you guys think your program would pay that (seriously not trying to put you down just want some input)? This also seems to me like a lateral move for Coach Rob and the assumption around Corvallis is he wont leave unless it is a better job. Also if Coach Rob did a one-and-done to Oregon State what makes you think UGA wont just be another stepping stone? It just doesn’t make sense to me but I guess journalist don;t have to make sense they just have to sell papers (we have a guy Canzano that is the same way). Anyway I find a lot of this interesting and look forward to more feedback.
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GoSEC
March 11th, 2009
1:27 pm
Got to agree with you Moore, only a few more years and ole UGA will get caught. Richt came from FSU so as they say, when in Rome, do as the Romans do, and a limb dosent fall far from the tree.
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buck stops somewhere
March 11th, 2009
1:28 pm
The next comment that comes from a follower of a university that has been penalized for cheating and doesn’t start pointing at other institutions as a cause and effect excuse will be the first. I think the phrase “accepting responsibility” never occurs to anyone anymore…
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Mac
March 11th, 2009
1:32 pm
Joe Paterno is a jack@$$. I hope Bowden winds up his career with more wins.
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gdg73
March 11th, 2009
1:34 pm
You in the media boosted him up to “Saint Status”, so stop it with your crying. He got fat (with victories) while utilizing the wealth of talent found in the state and the occassional blue chipper from Texas, Louisisana, Miss., and Georgia. When the talent started going elsewhere, the program suffered because his coaching ability, or lack thereof, was exposed. I’ve seen some of the practices at FSU. If he is not in the tower far removed from the field, he is riding around in a golf cart with his grandkids. Also, I doubt if he even knows his player’s names. I saw on his weekly TV show a couple of years back he kept calling Geno Hayes (#10) Derrick Brooks. This program has been on the skids every since the Darling kid died doing those mat drills back in 2000. And if anybody thinks Jimbo Fisher is any better, they are kidding themselves. The AD needs to clean house and bring in someone like Jon Gruden.
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Reality Time
March 11th, 2009
1:34 pm
Mark Richt has not coached at FSU for 8 seasons. Why all the bloggers are trying to rope him into this recent FSU problem is beyond me. Irresponsible college athletes drinking happens at every campus, with the possible exception of Utah, and it is not limited to athletes. Unfortunately it is part of campus life. However having staffers prep answers and prepare papers is an entirely different story. I believe that blew up in Georgia’s face with the basketball program and I guarantee they looked at all their athletic programs at that time. Criticize Richt if you want, but have some basis other than you don’t like his outspoken religious beliefs.
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Gary
March 11th, 2009
1:42 pm
I’m tired of the AJC and others on this blog who no nothing about FSU academics or football to imply that FSU is different from other programs. Yes, when you deal with 19-year-old college students away from home for the first time you inevitably will have some get into trouble. You also will have many players in a competitive program who have trouble keeping up academically. But FSU is not a joke school. Look at the not 1 but 2 Rhodes scholars to come out of FSU athletics in the last few years. Certainly cheating should not be tolerated and those involved disciplined or fired, but to paint the brush over the entire school and football program is pretty lazy journalism. Coach Bowden is responsible for the program as Head Coach, but can’t be expected to hold every player’s hand. Overall, I think he has been pretty consistent at suspending players who get into trouble, regardless of whether they start. If you have any doubt whether the dadgum coach is the real deal or not, get your butt down here to Tallahassee and find out for yourself.
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reply to gdg73
March 11th, 2009
1:45 pm
actually, FSU started it’s downhill slide when they were dumb enough to hire Jeff Bowden as the offensive coordinator
Had nothing to do with lack of talent and talent leaving the state. It all had to do with not being able to properly evaluate talent and then develope the talent when it showed up.
As far as coaching, you don’t know much about college coaching and how it works. The head coach, unless a position coach as well, does very little “coaching” at all.
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My only question is...
March 11th, 2009
1:46 pm
Why have you not jumped off a bridge yet Terry?
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AD at FSU
March 11th, 2009
1:53 pm
What some people don’t know, because the full story is not being reported here, is that the AD that was in charge when this happened has since been removed.
But again, Terrance being the 50% reporter that he is kindly left that out of his report. He also left out the other approx 10 people that were let go that directly reported to the former AD.
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Ryan
March 11th, 2009
1:54 pm
I played at Florida State and I am currently a pastor. I sat under coach Bowden for 5 years (I red-shirted) and whomever the “friend of a friend” is from the other posts is either sorely mistaken or just trying to defame Coach Bowden. The man said about 3 “cuss words” in the 5 years I was there and each time it happened it was in a half time speech and after it was said you could have heard a pin drop. It is simply incorrect to say that “Dadgummit is the biggest cusser at practice he has ever heard…to quote him, every other word is GD or MF. He told me he had never heard GD so many times in his life as when Dadgummit was cussing at practice,” is just incorrect. But, I doubt many of you actually believed this quote anyway.
About him being a hypocrite… The message of Jesus Christ is not a message of perfection; it is a message of necessary forgiveness because we are so imperfect. While I understand the frustration many people have because the church does some stupid things and because prominent Christian people do stupid things; it goes to validate the claims of Jesus that we are broken, selfish people who need a savior, as opposed to making everyone out to be hypocrites.
What happened at F.S.U. was wrong. It was more laziness than anything else, but wrong none the less. The issue is not weather or not F.S.U. should be penalized, but if vacating wins is appropriate. It is bigger than Coach Bowden. It involves the track team winning the National Championship, and being stripped of it as well. There is also a great deal of precedence to support F.S.U. Consider Florida and the Tank Black scandal where guys like Fred Taylor and Javon Kearse were getting paid. Or, Reggie Bush and USC. Or, speeding tickets at Alabama. etc. This isn’t to say that because other schools mess up none should be punished. It is to say that some level of consistency is to be expected.
Finally, F.S.U. self reported. They weren’t protecting any image when they hired an outside investigator to uncover the mess. They weren’t protecting any record when they suspended all those players for the bowl game (which they lost) and they first three games of the following season. Etc. It is not unreasonable for F.S.U. to appeal, nor is it just because it it Bobby Bowden (although he is a big motivator).
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Gator Fans
March 11th, 2009
1:56 pm
Gators act as if they have so much room to talk with what goes on at UF. I LOVE IT.
They are just glad the lime light is not pointed in their direction for once.
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Bill Mc.
March 11th, 2009
2:00 pm
Am I missing something here? We give these kids scholarships(which by the way means a free education that would cost you and I a hundred thousand dollars or more)and all they have to do is stay eligible and pass their classes. Then we allow them to take classes that have online tests and don’t expect them to cheat? If their athletic skills are that important to the school and the coach, they should be walked to each class, tutored and forced to study. I guess I missed the memo on the online testing. When did it replace basket weaving as a sure fire way to get an A? If you don’t at least hold the coach somewhat responsible then who do you hold responsible? If I tell my neighbor to watch my 18 year old son while I’m gone and they both go out wreck my new Porsche, who’s responsible? Answer: all of us bear some responsibility, but I’m the moron that left him with the keys. lol
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Green Tea
March 11th, 2009
2:00 pm
Great post Ryan
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Oh-the-horror
March 11th, 2009
2:02 pm
The on-line cheating doesn’t sound much different than what goes on at UGA all the time – particularly near the end of the semester or the end of summer classes (doesn’t it seem funny how those guys who are having to take summer classes suddenly find a way to pass the course). I also bet that this takes place at most other major colleges, particularly the SEC – where it’s win at all costs. But I am only relating my experiences with “players” at Georgia. There are a lot of “cheats”, both in and out of the classroom.
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Poorjeff
March 11th, 2009
2:02 pm
Mr. Moore, who are you to cast stones? Your opinion on Coach Bowden is BS. I have known Bobby for many years (going back to his SGC days) and nothing you have reported describes the man I know.
Reply to Gator Sam @ 1:18= is the man I know. Thanks to the one that wrote it. How many have you won to Christ? Bobby is a much better man than a few AJC reporters that write trash and try to destroy a man. If it makes you feel better have at it but maybe you need to clean up your own back yard first.
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Puleezze
March 11th, 2009
2:04 pm
SomewhereinGA, Hate to burst your bubble Buddy, but your “friend of the family” is making stuff up — Never taken a test? Never written a paper? Bobby B slinging nothing but MFs and GDs throughout practice? That “friend of the family” has some imagination!!
Bobby’s not a saint and FSU has it’s problems like most places, but just wildly making up stories does no one any good.
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GW
March 11th, 2009
2:06 pm
These comments prove a lot of folks are just plain jealous of college coaches. Write a story on Bowden and every coach out there gets accused of something.
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Rattler Nation
March 11th, 2009
2:09 pm
Terry, you’re an idiot to think this doesnt happen at every University. Go back to school and real degree b/c your writing skills suck
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Terry Cloth
March 11th, 2009
2:10 pm
“Im at UF and 2 years ago I had a class with 8 football players in the class. One is a friend from high scholl and I wont give his name because he is still on the team and will be a senior and I get wasted with him some times, but never during the season. They went to class on the first day only and the 3 times there were test. I asked him how he was gonna pass and he told me they didnt have to go to school because they already had the 3 test to study from and the TA did not take roll anyhow. They told the players not to get a A and miss 10-15 questions on purpose so nobody could say nothing but everyone already knew whats up anyhow. I asked him for a copy of the final but he said no because he could get in trouble. I heard they all got b’s without going to class and taking notes and I got a c and I went to almost every class. Thats not fair and I think most schools let players get answers to test and pass around handouts with the important stuff on it and many players cheat too”
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Bill
March 11th, 2009
2:12 pm
Great blog Ryan. Thanks
TM you could take some pointers from Ryan.
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Bill Mc.
March 11th, 2009
2:12 pm
I don’t know Mr. Bowden personally so I can’t comment on his character. I do know that you’re reputation can be largely based on the people that work for and under you. If my livelyhood was based on how my players performed on and off the field, I would be keeping a much better eye on them or get somebody I trust to do it for me. Fool me once…
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Bill From Tampa
March 11th, 2009
2:14 pm
I’m just guessing here, but Terrence is not a fan FSU or apparently much less of Bobby Bowden. Just a guess mind you.
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Tank "UF" Black
March 11th, 2009
2:17 pm
What happened at FSU goes on everywhere. FSU should be reprimanded for turning themselves in. I agree w/ Rattler Nation….Terri Moore looks like he dropped out of high school
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K-DAWG
March 11th, 2009
2:20 pm
To ACC, I don’t why your coming down so much on the UGA coaches, first of all Richt has not broken any kind of NCAA rules and best I recall neither did Dooley & Goff, except for tht Jan Kemp fiasco. Also,I doubt if Coach Butts needed to do any type of cheating, he just won games the old fashioned way, but then again you are from the ACC!!!!!!
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bossrat
March 11th, 2009
2:25 pm
Who the heck is this Terence guy? And what does he know about FSU? He lumps all the players who have played at FSU as being bad. Well, there are players like: Derrick Brooks, Warrick Dunn, Charlie Ward, Myron Rolle, Casey Weldon, Brad Johnson, Peter Boulware, Chris Weinke, and I can go on and on … all great people.
Coach Bowden is a religious man of great moral and decent character. Obviously, this Terence guy has no clue as to what he writes about, and the AJC is nothing but a rag.
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fsu 4 life
March 11th, 2009
2:31 pm
just another dumbass tryin to make some money off a story about a legandary coach that aint true
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Reality Time
March 11th, 2009
2:31 pm
I think the most bothersome theme running through these blogs is that instead of individuals admitting there was a problem and appreciation that the problem had been found and was being corrected, to the benefit of both the university and all of its students, they find it more appealing to simply attack other schools, whether warranted or not. Yes, every school has had it problems, and some schools may have “gotten away” with some things, but the objective should not to see what you can slip by the NCAA, but to make your university and its athletics department something to be proud of. I realize that sounds simplistic but it is true. On one of the entries someone spoke of the “Jan Kemp fiasco.” That could not be further from the truth, as hated as she was at the time, Jan Kemp is one of the best things that happened to the University of Georgia and its athletic department. The changes that were made in response to Jan Kemp’s allegations have made Georgia a much more attractive destination for all students, not just student athletes, and by the way, we still field respectable teams in all sports, with the exception of basketball, which is still recovering from the cheating scandal when Herrick was coaching at UGA. FSU will have to go through the same recovery period and hopefully will come out the other side a better university.
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To Not Factual
March 11th, 2009
2:31 pm
Thanks for that response. The three employees who invited the student athletes to cheat were not even employees of the athletic department, and as many have said, FSU self reported this violation, and suspended EVERY player that they found had cheated on the on-line course. That cost FSU not only the 2007 Music City Bowl, but far more important, it probably cost them last season’s conference game against Wake Forest. Should FSU be penalized for this incident? Of course. But c’mon AJC, if you’re going to comment at all, at least get your facts straight.
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Dr Henry / Augusta
March 11th, 2009
2:39 pm
You nailed it this time Terrence….I had forgotten about FSU (free shoes U.) that being one of Spurrier’s gems….Thanks for allowing me to remember
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acc
March 11th, 2009
2:54 pm
to k-dog—-look up 1943, when UGA was penalized $500 ( stiff penalty then ) because of Butts playing ineligible players-his excuse-”we couldnt compete because we didnt have enough players. As for Dooley and Goff, UGA received 2 years probation for illegal recruting. Players that didnt pass their entrance exam. Harrick was a real winner, and if it hadnt been for Jan Kemp seeing the players that had flunked and were ineligible and playing in the news years bowl game, then going back to school, checking and seeing that the grades had been changed, then UGA still be up to it-as Munson said ” got to win at all costs”
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RickNole
March 11th, 2009
2:56 pm
Terence Please get a grip. How about you take a look at your darling Notre Dame before you start casting stones.
I guess its just convenient to see “FSU Scandal” headline on ESPN and to make your own conclusion instead of actually doing the research.
Somehow overlooked in all of this is that FSU actually self reported this information and suspended all of the 61 students involved.
I walked on as a freshman at FSU, do you REALLY believe that these coaching staffs know EVERYthing that goes on with its players?? If you do, you have NO idea about how things work in the real world.
Some of you people casting stones are probably the same people that believe that your sons and daughters in college are at home studying on a Sat. night.
Get real, college kids cheat, drink, party, and all other things that 18-21 year olds do. No different at FSU. (Yes Gator Fans, even Tim Teabow) Oh yeah Dawg fans, I dont remember our QB underage drinking and spooning another dude at some redneck race.
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Choak at Doak
March 11th, 2009
2:56 pm
Another of Spurrier’s games was losing to FSU. I think Tank Black might have been the hidden gem behind all of his sucksess
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Charlie Pell
March 11th, 2009
3:00 pm
How quickly this Gator homer forgets about UF’s past transgressions. Worst part is, I see this guy on t.v…. he’s so fake. F-a-k-e. I’m sure he’s met Bobby too and was “real” with him, i.e. calling him Saint Bobby and other unprofessional insults. It’s primarily why this guy writes for the AJC… a nobody blog that a bone head x-football player could write for.
Anywho, the UF program should of been disbanded after Charlie Pell committed 107 NCAA infractions, i.e. paying players cash, illegal practices, spying on other teams. I mean, the Turds wrote the book on cheating. Hell, the SEC stands for So, Everybody Cheats…
In sum, this guy and all Turds are scum. Dirty Jacksonville scum…
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JP
March 11th, 2009
3:00 pm
Everyone should read Ryan’s post.
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Richard
March 11th, 2009
3:00 pm
Whoever mentioned that Bobby is an act and that at practice he swears more than anyone has NEVER been to a FSU preactice OR KNOWN ANYONE that has been to a FSU practice. That is a straight up lie. L-I-E.
While as an FSU fan and alumni I am disappointed at what happened I will tell you that from going their and knowing many players I never saw any cheating. I did see waaaaaay more help than normal students get, but then again many of the players frankly needed it more.
They are football players, with a goal of going to the NFL not Harvard. For most school is something they have to do to get to the league. If any of you think FSU is any different than your school of choice you are very naive.
As for the reporter on this story he may need some academic help himself, the NCAA report said NO COACHES had knowlege or any part in this sad affair.
Cheap way to try to make a name for yourself as a reporter, attacking a beloved sport figure.
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CS
March 11th, 2009
3:05 pm
Bottom line is that FSU will win it’s appeal with the NCAA and nobody will remember this issue by August. Second, 50 years from now people will remember Bobby Bowden for the great man and coach he was, nobody will remember Terence Moore.
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gatorsam
March 11th, 2009
3:07 pm
By the way FSU diehards. Look back to the days at UF when Charlie Pell and Galen cheated. What happened? Their wrists were not slapped. The program was penalized very harshly by the NCAA. Many…many…many high school All-Americans and great college prospects reneged on the Gators, and a dynasty was born…guess where. FSU. No one whats to remember that. I have never read about in any sports page anyhwhere. Hey if the Gators get caught cheating, sock it to them, just do the same to “Saints” as you do to the Aint’s.
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chris
March 11th, 2009
3:07 pm
Do you all realize FSU turned themselves in for this? The only the the NCAA did was add one more year of losing scholarships and stripping the wins. The rest FSU imposed on the themselves. I am a FSU grad and had classes with Peter Boulware, Tra Thomas and quite a few more. They were in more classes than I was. You bring up Coles, he got kicked off the team, same with Moss, Rock Preston and more. UGA and UF seem to take it as well they didn’t do it on the field. As soon as the school found out what was going on they suspended the players. Much less it takes the NCAA 2 years to come up with their findings for something FSU, again, turned themselves in for? If they hadn’t when would we have heard of this 2012?
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How did you get a journalist job
March 11th, 2009
3:08 pm
please terrance, spend 15 minutes with coach bowden and you’ll regret writing this article. he is a great man and a great coach.
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Kiffin is a baffoon
March 11th, 2009
3:09 pm
It’s not self-reporting when you have to re-issue your self report to the nCAA THREE times because the first only had TWO football players on it and the second a few more and the 3rd even more.
That’s called covering up for the football program while self-reporting.
The NCAA knew better and thus FSU had to re-issue the report multiple times.
For those bringing up Tank Black, UF self-reported that situation and was commended by the NCAA for how they handled the situation and their transparency in it. Not covering up like FSU did.
FSU fans are so quick to say well “everybody does it” or bash TMoore for his points in the article hwoever if he wrote the exact same thing about the same situation at UF or Miami you hypocrites would prech his words as the gospel.
You people are sad and HUGE hypocrites….
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dap01
March 11th, 2009
3:10 pm
Hootie Snitch: With that intellectual conclusion, you need to be a judge or prosecutor.
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Otto
March 11th, 2009
3:13 pm
Whatever happened with the USC investigations?
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Convicts
March 11th, 2009
3:15 pm
Only a can fan would include the “N” word. There is no need for that here. Act like an adult. Let me guess, you didnt go to Miami did you? Didnt think so….I hqave never actually met a Miami fan that went to school there.
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Newest Moore Critic
March 11th, 2009
3:16 pm
Terrence: I have never written a post giving you a hard time. I don’t always agree with what you write but usually enjoy reading your insight. I’ve never bought into others claims that you aren’t truly a journalist or that you never get the facts right. I’ve been willing to give you the benefit of the doubt – UNTIL NOW. This article represents sheer bias and profound laziness. There are so many inaccuracies it wasn’t worthy of being printed. Did you conduct any research? I will now read everything you write with a grain of salt.
#1 The cheating DID NOT involve staffers in the athletics department. The cheating involved three tutors in the Academic Assistance Department which has absolutely no reporting structure to the Athletic Department. In fact, I believe the AAD reports to the Dean of Students. It is specifically set up that way to avoid any ability by the Athletics Dept to exert pressure on the Academic Depts.
#2 The NCAA itself recognized that the coaches and administration at FSU had no knowledge of the cheating that was going on. They agreed that the coaches did nothing wrong and as soon as the University and the Athletic Dept learned of the problem they immediately self-reported and began investigating.
#3 There was absolutely no intent of covering anything up. The University immediately hired an independent third party to investigate the full details of the matter.
#4 You try to suggest in your article that this is a Football Program problem. You make a weak attempt to clarify that the 61 athletes were in 10 different sports but call it a “slew” in the football program. I didn’t see you mention Leonard Hamilton or the Track & Field Coach. Certainly, just a blatant attempt on your part to attack Bobby Bowden. Just to be clear – 61 athletes, 10 different sports.
#5 Who are the FSU Officials that you quote as saying it would be unfair to strip 10 wins from Bobby Bowden? Name the person. Who was your source quote from? The simple fact is – that wasn’t the quote. The quote is more similar to the fact that the University has agreed to nearly all aspects of the penalties imposed by the NCAA. In fact, most of the penalties that FSU were already self-imposing were simply adopted by the NCAA including probation and scholarship reductions. The one penalty they did not agree with was the vacation of wins from any sport. The disagreement stems from the fact that the athletic programs did not knowingly play any ineligible players. As soon as the potential of any player becoming ineligible was brought to their attention, the athletes were suspended and not allowed to play. The NCAA is stating that as soon as the infraction occurs the player becomes ineligible whether the University knows it or not and therefore, if they play in a game the game must be fofeited. That flies in the face of any precedent ever set by the NCAA. Reggie Bush received a house. At that moment, whether the University knew about it or not, he became ineligible and any game that he played in after the fact should be forfeited. The NCAA hasn’t required that of USC. Why? They’ve made up a new rule for FSU that says it doesn’t matter if you knew or not, they were ineligible and you must vacate those wins. That’s ridiculous. Let’s be clear: The NCAA is settign precedent here at the expense of FSU and it directly contradicts its rulings on similar matters in the past. As soon as FSU knew about the issue they took immediate actions to investigate and rectify. The NCAA even agreed that the coaches did nothing wrong. Requiring a vacation of wins under those circumstances makes no sense. Had FSU had any knowledge that the players were ineligible and still played them – then they should forfeit. But, without that knowledge and with the NCAA saying the coaches did nothing wrong, then the requirement to forfeit wins is ridiculous.
#6 Long silence after Derrick Gibson’s arrest and charge would be called due process and respecting the players right to privacy. Maybe he was also operating under the assumption of innocent until proven guilty.
#7 You act like no other organization in college football gives players second chances. Bowden’s stance has always been to help rehabilitate a player after making a stupid mistake rather than kicking them to the curb taking away the biggest motivator they have to staying in school and being a good citizen.
#8 instead of taking your opinion on Bowden, maybe I’ll listen to the scores of former players and coaches that still call him for advice. Maybe I’ll think about the following when forming my opinions of Bowden:
The College Football Hall of Fame changed its rules a few years back so that it could induct Bobby Bowden while he still was in active coaching. They did it to show how much he means to the sport.
The Fellowship of Christian Athletes delivers a national award each year, and they call it The Bobby Bowden Award.
Just three months ago, the National College Football Awards Association presented Bobby Bowden with its Contributions to College Football Award. According to the organization, it was “presented to recognize the exceptional contributions to college football and a lifetime of achievement and integrity.” Only seven people in the world have received that award – Bobby Bowden is the only active coach on the list.
Yeah, maybe I’ll listen to those opinions instead of a hack that calls himself a journalist. Wow!! I don’t even have your credentials and access yet I was able to conduct this research. Maybe you should try a little research yourself.
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JoePa
March 11th, 2009
3:22 pm
Haha. All my players do is drink beer, get in fights, and smoke weed- like normal college kids. Even if FSU wins their appeal, this and all Bobby’s non-division 1 wins will forever taint his record. I’m sitting pretty in Happy Valley!
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gatorsam
March 11th, 2009
3:23 pm
In reply to Choke at Doak. How many times hav the Seminoles lost hope of a national title because of their play against the Gator? Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose. FSU fans never remember the “lose!
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jefferson street joe
March 11th, 2009
3:26 pm
Worked several of Coach Bowden’s summer football camps. Never heard Coach Bowden in all the time I have been around him use cuss words. Somebody is telling some big time lies on here. Tell me a university that is not having some problems, some major, with their student athletes. Let those without sin and who live in the glass house cast the first stones…..
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Doug Dyson
March 11th, 2009
3:27 pm
Poor old Terence. He just can’t get over Notre Dame not being able to win the most important game of the season back in 1993. That game being the next game against Boston College after ND beat FSU in South Bend when the Noles were number 1. He takes every opportunity he can to bash FSU, even when he doesn’t even bother to get the facts right in his articles. Terence states above that it was staffers in the athletic department that provided answers to tests and typed papers. If Terence had done proper research (like read the NCAA report), he would have found that 6 years ago T. K. Wetherell separated the athletic-academic support department from the athletic department and has them report directly to the academic side of the school. In other words, Bowden has absolutely no say in how his players are tutored or how they register for classes or how their academic progress is monitored. These violations had nothing to do with employees of the athletic department; only emloyees of an academic department. No coaches were implicated as noted in the NCAA’s report.
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Wright
March 11th, 2009
3:29 pm
SomewhereinGA – I do not believe that your FSU friend would make statements like that about his own program and that you, as his friend, would publicly repeat those words.
Ryan – Well spoken.
Terry Cloth – If you are really a student at UF, you should probably spend more time taking English classes and less time getting wasted.
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andrew
March 11th, 2009
3:38 pm
shall we get into history?
warrick: suspended 3 games (lost the heisman because of this)
coles: kicked off the team
randy moss: never played a down of football at fsu because bowden kicked him out!
fred rouse: top rated prospect that got kicked out after freshman year
preston parker: kicked off the team!
get your facts straight and quit conveniently overlooking them to satisfy your column!
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Otto
March 11th, 2009
3:39 pm
Terrence is getting flamed here as he should. Another example of bad reporting in modern media. It is sensationalized news like this and the story on how players are reconsidering their choice of schools that damages football programs and costs coaches their jobs. It is a shame the reporters can not be held as accountable as coaches maybe they would have a tutor proof read their articles.
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Choke at Doak
March 11th, 2009
3:50 pm
In reply to Gatorsam. 1. 1997 when Jaquez Green burned us bad. 1996 doesnt count b/c yall should have never even played in that game. Those are the only two times I can remember FU standing in the way of us being in the National Cahmpionship game. Miami has ruined many more chances than the Gaytors
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Sautee Dawg
March 11th, 2009
4:09 pm
Headcoach at an institution this size don’t have time to grade test papers. If you lined up all the faculty and accademic staff at Fla. St. Bowden probably couldn’t name 2 out of the whole bunch. These headcoaches have so much demand put on their time they are usually the last ones to know what goes on around them. Same at every school. I do think with a story of this magnitude Terrance should have at least gotten a line in there from Bowden himself instead of relying on wire reports. Afterall it not only pertained to football but several sports at FSU.
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PortlandDawg&Beaver
March 11th, 2009
4:22 pm
ean…Coach Rob I doubt is going to come to UGA…but to asnwer your questions, yes, UGA has a ton of money to spend if they want to… and as far as if UGA is the better job….probably yes only becasue it’s a bigger school, more exposure, and much better recruiting area. I went to grad school at Oregon State, so of course I always want the Beavs to do well…that said I do believe UGA would be perceived by most as a step up. Just my $0.02.
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Real
March 11th, 2009
4:26 pm
Terrence- you are a sad journalist. This article is purely libel. Bowden was not involved at all, yet he is being punished and his name tarnished.
First “The cheating involved staffers in the Florida State athletics department providing athletes with answers to the test and typing their papers.” -Actually it was Academic Support staffers, who did not report to anyone involved in the Athletics Department. The NCAA report also states that “None of the Athletic staff was involved or the punishments would have been more harsh”.
You also fail to say that their were 300 students total involved in this class, 61 of which were NCAA athletes involved in 10 different sports.
The reason that FSU is appealing this action is because NO PLAYERS KNOWINGLY INVOLVED IN THE SCANDAL PLAYED as soon as the incident was reported. FSU made each player sit out for 4 games, including the bowl game versus Kentucky. Again this was a SELF-REPORTED VIOLATION to the NCAA. FSU was being pro-active and followed the guidelines set by the NCAA in handling this matter.
FSU is on probation now, sure. SO IS BAMA and OU!!! We are all able to play on TV and in Bowl games. FSU loses 2 scholarships which tend to go to walk-ons annually.
You certainly have a bias towards FSU and Bowden.
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ean
March 11th, 2009
4:29 pm
Oh thanks for the info. I meant lateral move in terms of conference and history mostly. I do hear that Coach Rob has been putting pressue on the AD here to get practice facilities and a court dedicated to basketball practice. K