Are SEC coaches ready to endorse Derek Dooley with positives of over-signing?

Can I get a second? Are any SEC coaches ready to publicy endorse the Derek Dooley

Can I get a second? Are any SEC coaches ready to publicy endorse Derek Dooley's outspoken belief that over-signing is good for student-athletes? We asked a few and ... (AP)

Last month, Derek Dooley blasted the SEC’s new “roster management” rules to address over-signing.

Summary: The attorney-turned-football coach at Tennessee made a heck of an argument that you can read here. Dooley said “over-signing is good for the student-athlete” and claimed “98 percent of the time” it benefitted recruits. He also said the SEC’s head coaches (himself included) “failed” to communicate the positives of over-signing to the media and general public.

Was the leader of the Big Orange Nation correct?

We thought Dooley made some points worth asking around about. After all, if you remember, the SEC coaches voted 12-0 against the new rules last spring before they were bulldozed by their bosses, the school presidents.

Who wanted to sign a petition in favor of over-signing? We interviewed a few of his SEC contemporaries, explained DD’s talking points, and asked if they were ready to give him a public endorsement or sign a petition that we’d start for him:

  • UGA’s Mark Richt: “I don’t want to get into that discussion [about what Dooley said]. It really is a moot point. It doesn’t matter. We know what the rules are now, so let’s go by them and get after it.”
  • Kentucky’s Joker Phillips: “I know of some positives with over-signing. But you had a couple of negative things that happened. And those negative things happened to 18-year-olds. It didn’t happen to us coaches. The thing the school presidents got upset about were happening to 18-year-old kids. It was not their fault, you know? When college coaches negatively affect the lives a couple of 18-year-olds … that’s why it was blown up because of who it was. It was happening to kids, therefore it became a big deal. I agree [with Dooley] and I really liked the old rules. But I’ve been in the Big Ten, too, where you could only sign the number that you had … not 25 in a year, but the number of scholarships you had available. We made that work there, and we’ll make the new SEC rules work here. The negatives come when you affect the lives of an 18-year-old. It gets blown up by everybody. And it should.”
  • Texas A&M’s Kevin Sumlin: “I would say this [in response to Dooley]: The over-signing issue gets back to so many things. It’s about how you handle it as a coach. Anything is dangerous if you don’t handle it the right way. If everything is handled upfront the right way … and it’s explained to a young man where he is in the pecking order and he has not qualified … then I agree some [with Dooley] … It’s the communication that comes along with over-signing or the lack of communication that can get you in trouble. It was never a problem for us at Houston and it won’t be a problem for us here … because all those issues will be communicated upfront with a player, his parents, and his coaches.”
  • Alabama’s Nick Saban: Saban hasn’t responded to the AJC’s interview requests but Dooley vouched for his mentor by saying “I know Nick Saban feels the same way I feel.” So we’ll take his word for it.

Would you sign the Derek Dooley petition in favor of over-signing?

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Now it’s YOUR turn. Are you ready to sign the Dooley petition? Why or why not? Please post your comments below.

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169 comments Add your comment

Outside observer

March 14th, 2012
12:18 am

Joker Phillips pretty mailed nailed it and knocked it out of the park with his answer. Why can’t Dooley and the evil Nick Saban see that?

Screwing over kids is not good for business … anywhere.

The Bear

March 14th, 2012
12:19 am

Roll Tide #1

that photo of him is scary looking

March 14th, 2012
12:24 am

hahahaha, if I were DooDooley, I would win a few more games before I started running my mouth about anything, geez

Tossed Salad

March 14th, 2012
12:44 am

Dooley’s a d-bag. And a bad football coach. He’ll be yesterday’s news in a few years.

Randall "Pink" Floyd

March 14th, 2012
12:46 am

Perfect fit for the University of Football at Knoxville.

JT

March 14th, 2012
12:48 am

Regarding a kid who is not going to qualify academically Dooley says in the past you could sign them and place them at a junior college. “Now you can’t sign him, or you’re not willing to take that risk because you can’t be short on your roster. So now they’re more on their own, and they don’t get to sign with the school that they want to go to.”

Well so what, Dooley. Kids all across the country (non-athletes, that is) are unable to get into the school they want to go to every year. The colleges didn’t take that opportunity away from them, the kids did it to themselves or weren’t properly taught/motivated along the way. What about the kids who took care of their business and made the grades, but wouldn’t get a scholly to Tennessee (or wherever their dream school is) simply b/c another kid is a better athlete. Dooley doesn’t seem too concerned about those kids.

Michael

March 14th, 2012
12:57 am

For all of the negative talk about Georgia, I bet Tennessee would love to have won the East last year.

Michael

March 14th, 2012
12:59 am

I’ll take a good but not great team over no bowl any year. If Dooley is a decent coach, they’ve got to turn it around this coming season and win at least 8 games.

FL Jacket

March 14th, 2012
1:26 am

If you run a semi-pro football team at a school where transfer credits are accepted from Podunk U…why would you be against oversigning?

tenn.DAWG

March 14th, 2012
5:54 am

Remember Dooley is a Saban disciple,now go figure.

2,000 lbs of grade A b_tthurt

March 14th, 2012
6:20 am

I’m all for a 25 player limit if student athletes agree to three conditions: 1. when an athlete commits, the athlete agrees that they are 100% physically able to participate and, until they take part in drills, agree to remain fit or face immediate withdrawal of scholarship; 2. student athlete agrees to maintain appropriate G.P.A. In order to enroll / continue eligibility or immediately give up scholarship; and 3. student athlete agrees to BEHAVE and not get involved in illegal activities or immediately lose scholarship. A college scholarship is a REWARD and PRIVILEGE, not a guaranteed right just because you can run / catch / throw / block. Over signing keeps some borderline students honest: there’s someone right behind them ready to take their spot if they screw up.

bitter dope smoking corner back

March 14th, 2012
6:21 am

BARRBRA DOOLY seems cooler——————–moonpies

people like the sabanists will suffer from a 25max./4 year scolly

——————–bye,bye gray shirt, helo fair compition————and a moonpie, glass of milk

————–hahahahahahahah—-tree killers

bitter dope smoking corner back

March 14th, 2012
6:24 am

@2000lbs of ga_y-ness—–as long as there is alabamma there will be know perfect world in the sec

—————dooly is just looking for his next coaching job

BobDawg

March 14th, 2012
6:30 am

DD reminds me of The Guy on every Sales Team that just can’t seem to get it right…. Always the complainer and malcontent and the System is always against Them! This is the least of his problems and wasting way too much energy on a rule that is in place.

BAMA dude

March 14th, 2012
7:20 am

Once again, scholarship limits are designed to foster parity and comply with Title IX, not to help the young men vying for scholarships. A lot more of them would get a free education if teams could sign 100.

Blackoutanyone?

March 14th, 2012
7:26 am

Like Helen Hunt said… the rule is 25… let’s move on.

Congrats UGA nation… two days in a row with no arrests!!!

ole dawg

March 14th, 2012
7:36 am

It is the 2% of the 18 year old kids that Dooley, and apparently Saban (according to Dooley) are willing to screw that is the real problem with Dooley’s view. Selfish and classless.

Thanks Blackout!!! Glad you love the Dawgs and our coach (that does have character) so much.

Octagon Baby

March 14th, 2012
7:54 am

Richt has to over-sign to make up for the players lost each year to DUI arrests, players suspended for beating up women, and failed drug tests.

Bandwagon Bammer

March 14th, 2012
7:56 am

Dooley needs oversigning just so he can keep some extra assistant coaches.

Mickleroo

March 14th, 2012
7:57 am

Any more UGA athletes arrested for stealing hashbrowns this week?

The Grinch

March 14th, 2012
7:59 am

Bamaman
March 14th, 2012
6:36 am

For every AJC article that supposedly “bashes” Saban (it was reported that he didn’t respond to interview requests so I suppose that’s bashing?) there are about 71 Mulligan U bandwagon fans who repeatedly post on a blog and sing his praises. Politicians should be so lucky.

The Grinch

March 14th, 2012
8:00 am

Mickleroo
March 14th, 2012
7:57 am

“…stealing hashbrowns this week?”

Has Glen Rice Jr. ever stolen any hash browns?

Geez

March 14th, 2012
8:04 am

He’s been at UT for two years now and that’s the best pic you guys could find of him. This paper is sliding down hill fast.

The Grinch

March 14th, 2012
8:04 am

Octagon Baby
March 14th, 2012
7:54 am

Really? How many players did UGA lose last year to DUI arrests? For beating up women? For failed drug tests?

The Grinch

March 14th, 2012
8:05 am

Geez
March 14th, 2012
8:04 am

It looks as though he’s ready to drop the F-bomb.

Matt

March 14th, 2012
8:12 am

Dooley is absolutely correct. Most people don’t understand the process at all. Oversigning gives a kid who has an injury or who is academically “on the fence” an opportunity to overcome their injury or prove themselves in the classroom. Without it, those kids are kicked to the curb and forgotten about. There will be an occasional player who is asked to wait a year (greyshirt) or attend a JC to improve their grades, but they are not simply tossed aside. Also, Richt voted against the current system so his preference is pretty obvious. Saban, Miles, and Urban Meyer aren’t the only ones who did it. They’re simply better coaches and oversigning seems to be the only “dirt” anyone can throw at them.

Joey

March 14th, 2012
8:13 am

I can’t figure out who is more obsessed, Bama fans obsessed with AJC blogs, or UGA fans obsessed with Saban.

I, as a UGA fan would love to see Nick Saban on the UGA sideline. Or Urban Myer, or Steve Spurrier.

Given the HC job at UGA any of those three of those guys would have won multiple BCS Titles in `11 years with the talent we have had in Athens.

Everybody knows that, and everybody will admit it, except the fan-boys . . .

Blackoutanyone?

March 14th, 2012
8:19 am

MC… waisting your time with these coaches. They all want to oversign. We both know that. Only the gutless ones want say it in public. You should ask the players. For every Justin Taylor, who was asked to delay enrollment by only 6 months, there are players like William Vlachos who was a gray shirt and later a three year starter at Bama who will soon be making NFL $$ or could always fall back on a degree gray shirting afforded him. You may want to touch base with John Parker Wilson of the Atlanta Falcons and ask him how gray shirting worked out. Neither would’ve played at Bama or any other SEC school under the current rules. But you bleeding hearts take the word of a scorn 18 year old and run with it on a blog. Remove scholarship limitations and you don’t have to worry about the poor Justin Taylor’s of the world being asked to wait six whole months to enroll.

The truth

March 14th, 2012
8:24 am

Derrick Dooley needs to seek treatment before it is too late.

Dap01

March 14th, 2012
8:29 am

Dooley is unstable. He makes Urban Cryer seem stable.

WnE

March 14th, 2012
8:31 am

re:
Matt
March 14th, 2012
8:12 am
_________________

Every HC and even the “best recruiters” like Saban, Miles, Spurrier will MISS on a few Recruits every now and then.

With over-signing, these HCs over a four year period have averaged about 120+ signees vs. the 90 or so signees that Schools that DON’T OVER-SIGN average, the reason it is not 100 is because the schools that don’t over-sign will have some RSs that prevent them from giving out the full 25 schollies per yr. X 4 yrs.that would = 100.

Even IF the HC is “equal” you give someone an extra 15-20 BCS Caliber Football Players over a 4 year period it will make a HUGE difference.

Imagine a team losing 5 schollies per yr. ON PROBATION for a total of 20 schollies over 4-yrs., well that is what it is like to play without over-signing, it is like being on probation in comparison to teams that over-sign..

Basically the entire SEC West has ABUSED over-signing and only UGA, UF, & Vandy haven’t over-signed.

For UF, UGA, & Vandy they have been “on probation” for the last 4 years in comparison to the other NINE teams in the SEC.

Also, I find it hard to believe that HCs that make $3.0 million to $5+ Million per yr. cannot field a good FB team with 85 schollies at their disposal.

Most HCs only play 50 or so players over the course of an entire season, so 85 schollies is plenty enough to field a good team for a millionaire HC such that that HC doesn’t have to mis-treat any 18 y/o Recruit.

Any LOGICAL person that has children of their own would NEVER defend over-signing nor would they want it to happen to their own child.

nate from detroit

March 14th, 2012
8:32 am

We’ve heard this same whining crap about not being able to sign non and partial qualilfiers before. If you guys remember good ole Pat Dye used to always say that by signing kids with questionable transcripts and SAT’s that he was giving them a chance to get an education. He had all the Barners thinking that he was Mother Theresa. I always wanted to ask Pat, if student A wasn’t 6′4″ and 240lbs and run 4.4 forty do you still work as hard to get him in school? If Joe Blow from Forney, AL has a 1.9 GPA but can’t play a lick of football do Pat and Derek try to get him accepted and given a 4 yr scholarship? We know the answer.
Also, Saban was unavailable for comment because he is in his office with an accountants adding machine trying to calculate just how many kids he has on scholarship so he can calculate how much more “roster management” has to occur at Bammer.

Dean

March 14th, 2012
8:32 am

This guy is nothing like his father. Or atleast I hope Vince wasn’t like this.

FL Jacket

March 14th, 2012
8:35 am

Blackoutanyone…

Delaying a kid fom starting his degree, once you’ve offered the scholarship, is wrong…if you thought about it more like a parent and less like a fan you would agree.

Telling an injured kid he can get the same care at home that he can from University physicians? That is a straight-up lie and simply a way to mitigate your responsibilities even though you’ve offered the kid a scholarship.

For every Justin Taylor, there might be a William Vlachos. But for every William Vlachos, there’s 8-10 kids we never hear about because they leave quietly through attrition. And don’t kid yourself…William Vlachos wasn’t happy to grayshirt. And you don’t grayshirt your best recruits.

I wish someone would just come out and say what is so obvious. SEC coaches want oversigning for 2 reasons. First, because the type of kids they have to recruit to maintain national relevance are not upstanding or college-material…and run high risks of leaving the program early because of grades, off-field issues, or a lack of dedication. Second, SEC coaches know they don’t win with talent alone…they win with depth. Attrition and oversigning get them depth…and disputing this is futile.

Oversigning?

March 14th, 2012
8:41 am

Oversigning only benefits the coaches, not the players.

I don’t like greyshirting either unless it’s clear from the beginning to the player and his parents that the scholarship is a greyshirt. Early signing period like basketball would be nice too. Coaches can get kids signed before their senior year and focus on their needs for the rest of their class. Kid like Taylor would have already been signed and never had the disaster with the greyshirting request the way it went down.

Make all scholarships a 4 year commitment and require an outside medical opinion before forcing a kid to a medical hardship to clear up a scholarship. Bottom line, if a coach miss on a prospect, he has to live with it. Of course this assumes the kid stays out of legal trouble, handles their business in the classroom and basically does the things they are supposed to do. No coach should be required to keep a kid who keeps failing drug tests for example.

joe

March 14th, 2012
8:44 am

Bobby Dodd says HC responsbilty to know the his recruits or the HC pays the price

Coach Saban

March 14th, 2012
8:49 am

I ain’t signing nothing. All we sign sign is players…and plenty of them. You guys do what you need to do, but I’m looking for the best 35-40 players I can get every year. I currently have 84 offers out for next year and looking to add to it. You chumps check the waiver wire and have at it. RTR.

sam

March 14th, 2012
8:54 am

It must not take much to be a sports writer for the ajc. All you have to do is be obsessed with saban and try and write something attacking him, either directly, which is most often the case, or in this case indirectly through Dooley. Funny how these lame brains don’t talk about their own team, which in itself must say something, only about others. The difference is Alabama papers write about their teams and could care less about what georgia or other teams are doing. Man, it must be a sad life to be so disappointed in your own team you have to be consumed by some other team. Why don’t they do a comparison between Saban and Richt on how many of their respective players have been arrested since they have been at their schools? This is one contest where Richt clearly has the numbers to win.

Blackoutanyone?

March 14th, 2012
9:02 am

WnE…. Your thoughts on this matter are too simplistic in nature. Most of these coaches have a pretty good handle on which current players are planning to leave early for the NFL. They know which players skip class and will struggle to maintain academic eligibility. In CMR’s case he knows which players are at risk to fail a drug test or slap a girlfriend around. Most of these things are regulated by privacy laws and prohibit the coach from discussing with the media. But they know and that’s why all of them voted for oversigning. Not just Saban but all 12…. which includes Chiznick and St. Richt. BTW… Bama has many kids who will never see the field yet have maintained academic eligibility and stayed out of trouble and have never been cut due to oversigning as the media would have u believe. Just an excuse for rivals who can’t beat Saban. Nothing less nothing more.

Pawwwl

March 14th, 2012
9:10 am

Sounds like someone’s butt hurt that St. Nick wouldn’t return his call.

MikeP

March 14th, 2012
9:12 am

What good did the new rule do? Saban has already kicked two kids to the curb. The only difference is that now everybody can see what he did.

Flo-Ri-Duh

March 14th, 2012
9:15 am

Duh”Rick Dooley has a boss and he needs to shut his mouth and follow orders like he is paid to do. If a coach recruits a player that is trying his best but doesn’t have the talent then the coach made an error in judgement. He is paid millions to make these decisions and must accept the responsibility. Don’t punish the kid you promised a scholarship too and cut him. The coach screwed up – not the player. The same for Saban. You are paid millions to judge talent and if you are wrong then live with it.

RTR22

March 14th, 2012
9:23 am

MC cannot write an article about SEC recruiting or fb w/o finding a way to mention CNS. Here is a suggestion if you must continue…. Try posting the ARREST RECORDS & GRADUATION NUMBERS of CNS and the other SEC COACHES in the last 5 years.

Roll Tide, the envy of EVERY program in the South. Most alltime wins, bowl wins, 10 win seasons, undefeated seasons of at least 10 games played, national championships, and SEC Titles…… FACT

Blackoutanyone?

March 14th, 2012
9:29 am

FLjacket… As a parent if your son dreamed of wearing the gold and white or whatever GT colors are. He dreamed of playing for Georgia Tech and getting a degree from that school… well let’s say his grades needed a little work. Or let’s say he had the heart and desire but was a little under the weight and could use a few more months in the weight room. Gray shirting affords players who have a dream of playing for a certain school that opportunity for which thy would not have otherwise. Vlachos certainly didn’t want to gray shirt no more than any other kid would but sometimes I think we can agree it worked out in his best interest. I can’t speak to the 8-10 undocumened cases you speak of. I think asking a kid to delay enrollment 6 months in return for a full ride to the school of his dreams is not asking too much. Did you say depth wins? Lol thanks for that nugget of info captain obvious. Depth is aquired through attrition? Lol such as underclassmen going pro early?

dawgfacedboy

March 14th, 2012
9:31 am

As a dawg fan it won’t matter. Richt will never oversign and gray shirt because of his personal beliefs. Therefore he will always finish behind those who do.

UGA fans need to realize that Richt is not going to win a NC at UGA. He’s got a better chance with Grantham but that is a relative term, “better”. He’d rather hug a kid and let him have his scholarship for 4 years. Saban will bench or boot your butt because he’s got multiple guys behind you just waiting to take your position. Richt will win 8-10 games a year which is respectable but he’ll never win 13-14 games which is what it takes to play for the NC. Fans need to accept that UGA will be a respectable program but never an elite one.

Richt’s place really is in high school coaching.

Red Elephant101

March 14th, 2012
9:33 am

35 UGA football player arrest compared to 6 for Coach Saban while at Alabama, and one red panties AD for the dogs…

2 BCS crystal trophy’s for Alabama, 0 for GA Tech and the Poochies.

Blackoutanyone?

March 14th, 2012
9:33 am

MikeP… Welcome back! Haven’t seen u since just a few hours before jawja wooped up on the barn. A game I correctly predicted to be a 17+ point blow out. Kiss the ring beeeeyatch! Lol

Red Elephant101

March 14th, 2012
9:35 am

Even Auburn has a BCS crystal trophy…. dogs nope…

George Stein

March 14th, 2012
9:36 am

I’m also an attorney and I didn’t find his argument to be particularly compelling. I would also be curious to know where he got his 98% statistic. Did he bother to do any research for it or did he just pull it out of his backside?

SemperGrunt

March 14th, 2012
9:38 am

It’s funny how SEC fans complain about over signing, but the SEC coaches voted 12-0 in favor of it. Coaches voted that way because they know what is needed. Presidents voted their way because of public perception. For the ones that note that Dooley is a disciple of Saban, ya’ll weren’t complaining when Richt was going after Kirby.

Carver, are you that lazy or hate UT that much that you couldn’t put up a picture of Dooley with a UT shirt on?