First interview with NPR CEO Vivian Schiller on Juan Williams firing
Call me lucky. I had a pre-scheduled interview this morning with NPR CEO Vivian Schiller this morning before her speech at the Atlanta Press Club Newsmakers luncheon at the 191 Club in downtown Atlanta.
So lo and behold, the entire Juan Williams firing blew up the past 24 hours. I happen to be the first person to talk to her about it. She basically said he was on NPR as a news analyst and wasn’t supposed to express opinions, something he had done time and time again on Fox News. This was just the final straw. Commentators, in contrast, are specifically called that on NPR and are supposed to be opinionated.
She said this has nothing to do with Fox News or his particular views of Muslims. She is also sorry NPR did this while most public radio stations (including WABE-FM) are in the middle of their fall pledge drives.
After the luncheon, John Weatherford, senior chief operating officer at WABE-FM, acknowledged the Williams flap has been a “distraction” for the pledge drive, and he has gotten many emails and calls from WABE listeners who won’t give money because of it. He also said today is the matching day for Atlanta Community Food Bank and he hopes it doesn’t hurt them.
[Williams himself spoke about the situation on Fox News today and said he couldn't believe he was let go without even a face-to-face conversation. He was terminated by phone.]
UPDATE@ 5:25 p.m. The Los Angeles Times reports that Fox has signed Williams to a new three-year contract worth nearly $2 million.
Here is part of the Q&A:
Q: Okay. What happened?
A: Let’s state a couple of facts. Juan is not an employee of NPR. He’s an independent contractor. He’s not NPR staff. He’s an NPR analyst. We have a contract with him for analyst opinions to provide news analysis. He is not a columnist or commentator. He also has an on-going relationship with Fox News. Mara Liasson is also on Fox News and is a full-time staffer. We accept that’s a whole other issue. However, we expect our journalists, whether they are news analysts or reporters to behave like journalists.
Q: So did Juan really get fired over just those Muslim comments? [He said he was uncomfortable with Muslims dressed in traditional garb on airplanes during a Fox News telecast yesterday.]
A: There have been several instances over the last couple of years where we have felt Juan has stepped over the line. He famously said last year something about Michelle Obama and Stokely Carmichael. [The quote on Fox News early last year: "Michelle Obama, you know, she's got this Stokely Carmichael in a designer dress thing going" and that she'll be an "albatross" for President Obama.]. This isn’t a case of one strike and you’re out.
Q: So this is obviously not an isolated incident.
A: There’s so much misinformation on the blogosphere, it’s nuts. This has been an on-going issue. [Here's NPR's ombudsman's piece on him last year after the Obama comment.] When he does that, when anybody does that, it undermines their credibility as a journalist or in Juan’s case, a news analyst for NPR. Those two things cannot go together.
Q: Have you done this before with other analysts or reporters?
A: It’s impossible to answer that. Every circumstance is different and would create false parallels.
Q: As you mentioned, Mara Liasson appears on Fox News. Is there an issue with Fox News?
A: No. She behaves on Fox as a journalists. I have no issues with anything she has said on Fox. This is not about Fox News. It’s not about a political agenda. This is not about even validating or invalidating [Williams'] feelings.
Q: Mike Huckabee is now saying NPR has discredited itself and should have federal funding revoked.
A: Yes, I heard that. This has become a political issue. My God, I’m shocked!
Q: Could NPR live without federal funding?
A: Let’s go on a sidebar. There’s a misperception about federal funding and public radio. There’s the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. They receive $90 million a year and a vast majority goes to member public radio stations. Those stations pull in more than $1 billion collectively a year. It’s significant and important but not even close to the lion’s share of revenues for public radio. NPR gets no allocation from CPB. Zero. We are a private 501(c)3. We’ve had journalists call up and ask what department of the government we report to. That’s laughable. Have you listened to our shows? We do apply for competitive grants from the likes of the Ford Foundation and the Knight Foundation. As a result, some money from CPB does come to us when we win grants. Depending on the year, it represents just one to three percent of our total budget.
Q: What is your annual budget?
A: $160 million a year from station fees and dues, corporate underwriting, philanthropic contributions from individuals and corporation and earned income and earnings from our endowment.
Q: How healthy are you?
A: We had some issues the last couple of years and went into deficits. But we’ve regrouped and we’re back on track.
During the luncheon, she repeated much of what she told me.
“We are for civil liberties,” she said. “If you want to be a political activist, you may not also be a reporter or news analyst for NPR.”
Schiller also said it’s “sophomoric” to deride objectivity as a lie of omission, that hiding a journalists’ biases is a bad thing: “Yes, we are humans. We have opinions. None of us are impartial, that objectivity and absolute truth as concepts are unattainable. It does not follow that providing the most objective and most impartial work possible is not a worthy goal for professional journalists.”
She continues: “This is where the Juan Williams story enters. We have checks and balances to serve that goal. That’s why we have editors. We have an ombudsman and corrections. It’s why we let readers comment on stories. It’s why we run opinions and commentaries and label them as such. Commentaries are different from news analysis. It’s certainly why we practice journalism and prohibit journalists from certain activities, not just to protect the appearance of objectivity… it’s to protect the ideal of fair-minded journalism… People have strong opinions and professional journalists have developed procedures and standards and practices to counter them. It’s to draw a fine line between reporter and commentary and punditry.”
On a brighter note, she also noted that NPR public radio stations have seen their audience grow 60 percent over the past decade to 34 million people and that doesn’t include users who access NPR shows via mobile devices, the Web and podcasting. She is also proud that NPR has expanded its coverage in international news, the arts and sciences and other topics that have been reduced in other media.
“Our goal is simple,” Schiller told more the luncheon audience. “Deliver more news and information to more people in more ways.”
NOTE: I am a board member of the Atlanta Press Club.
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524 comments Add your comment
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
5:17 pm
Yes — now compare that fact to the total percentage of blacks in positions of power compared to that of the black American. You don’t exactly have to be a statistician to note the imbalance.
jwpegler
October 21st, 2010
5:17 pm
Given that NPR is a government agency, Williams should sue you for violating his first amendment rights.
DK
October 21st, 2010
5:18 pm
@Drew Williams. Let’s talk about today, not yesterday. I don’t see blacks hanging in trees, and when such reprehensible acts are committed today, people are prosecuted, like the James Byrd case. I can name instances of black on white hate crimes for every case you can name me that has occurred in the 21st Century.
kevin
October 21st, 2010
5:18 pm
JTesla,
Saying power-seeking is responsible for sociopathic behavior and/ or unspeakable violence is not saying anything at all–power-seeking is of course part of it. Here I will put my point another way. Religion creates more violent power seeking people than any other structure in the world. Who killed the people on 911? Religious people. Who killed the jews in Nazi Germany? A religious man. And on and on.
Charlie
October 21st, 2010
5:19 pm
Where was the outrage when Nina Totenberg said, “retributive justice” in the world the (admittedly loathsome) Jesse Helms would “get AIDS from a transfusion, or one of his grandchildren will get it.” I understand she is still NPR’s legal affairs. The statement by Juan Williams is far, FAR less offensive that her statement. Juan was correct in his statement and justified in saying it!
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
5:21 pm
Again……Drew is right.
Anyone in authority/majority makes a larger impact on everything than just the “on the street Joe”. The “average” man/woman is extremely important in how our society runs and behaves, but those in power have the most impact.
Many of you make valid points, so for now I shall sit back and read…and learn…although there is no way my religious beliefs will be changed, but my political ones can.
DK
October 21st, 2010
5:21 pm
I’m betting it’s getting fairly even now at around 13%. As for that, I work for a county that has a higher percentage of black employees than is the percentage of the county’s black demographic makeup.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
5:22 pm
So you agree these reprehensible acts take place, after you say you don’t “see blacks hanging from trees”? Anyway, so let’s name a couple of black on white crimes, outside of John Muhammed, and see if they fall into the category of institutional racism or citizen-on-citizen crime, shall we?
Albert
October 21st, 2010
5:22 pm
NPR must appear as far left liberal leaning to those who need to tune into Bill O’Reilly to be told what is right and what is wrong because they can not form opinions for themselves.
Anyone who has listened to NPR for any time knows that they make the extra effort to be fair and impartial by having at length discussions with those of opposing viewpoints.
For the same reason I stopped listening to CBS news for its liberal leanings in the 80’s, I quickly stopped tuning into Fox in the 90’s for its far right propaganda. I’m a Republican who has watched his party get hijacked by the Christian Coalition.
I don’t think JW should have been terminated for his comments on FOX but I’ll continue to listen to NPR because they take the extra effort to be fair and go deeper into the story than any other organization.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
5:23 pm
13%? 13% of what?
DK
October 21st, 2010
5:24 pm
Last thing I’ll say is, if we can’t get over yesterday, tomorrow will never improve. To my black friends, teach your kids to hate if you want. I don’t want want to live in a world of hate and I will not teach hate to my kids.
DK
October 21st, 2010
5:24 pm
Blacks make up 13% of the American population.
kevin
October 21st, 2010
5:28 pm
freespeechrules,
In leaving this blog, I thought I would leave you a quote from Ludwig Wittgenstein (20th century analytic philosopher)—something I think we can both appreciate (for once
). This is not verbatim, but you’ll get the jist.
2 people sitting down to discuss religion vs. science is like 2 people sitting down to play a game of chess. However, 1 person uses the rules of checkers and the other person uses the rules of backgammon–and you can’t play chess that way. The rules of language and language games does not allow for meaningful discourse here.
Best to you.
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
5:29 pm
Best to you, too, Kevin.
mjc
October 21st, 2010
5:29 pm
The time for discussion is over. Let’s vote. If the majority of American taxpayers want any of their tax dollars going to the CPB, PBS, or NPR so be it. But if the majority doesn’t support tax subsidies for public broadcasting then end them. We do, after all, live in a democracy.
Not My Real Name
October 21st, 2010
5:29 pm
The ajc has buried this blog.
Why?
Juan Williams Loses Job At NPR For Telling The Truth - Page 19 - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
October 21st, 2010
5:30 pm
[...] [...]
Old Dawg
October 21st, 2010
5:30 pm
NPR used (and I emphasize “USED”) to get my donation. NO MORE!! Juan is basically a liberal guy who told the truth about Muslims. Does anyone in America feel comfortable getting on a plane with a Muslim? NPR just confirmed their liberal bias to the “Nth” degree. God, what a bunch of wusses.
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
5:31 pm
Have a great evening.
Huff Post Stormtrooper
October 21st, 2010
5:32 pm
George Soros has his own little private army of “journalists” now.
He bought a hundred at NPR.
He is financing the Huffington Post’s “investigative” branch…. LMAO !
Sunlight is the best disinfectant Georgie Boy.
boots
October 21st, 2010
5:33 pm
Kevin, you have know idea of my own educational background. Let’s just say I’m as qualified as you are. However, your degree in philosophy might explain your desire to debate and make sweeping statements in justication of atheism. If you want to compare the evils of atheism with Christianity, go ahead, but you will have a problem. Let me put it this way. Let’s say three people highjack and crash three planes, killing a lot of people. One calls himself a christian, one calls himself a muslim and one an atheist. Christians would react by condemning the act because it goes directly against the teachings of our leader and God, and this is consistent with how Christians have reacted with similar events (meaning the person was not a true follower of Christ). Muslims would be divided – some would celebrate (if done against infidels), some would be quiet, and a minority would speak out against it. The act may or may not be consistent with the teachings of the Qur’an. The atheist crowd could not say much since, as a belief system, it doesn’t really have any “teachings” or moral code. For an atheist, at the end of the day, the three people, and the people on the plane were just pieces of furniture in the universe who were unlucky or uncivil enough to be there, but they are gone now, and there is no judgement against the highjackers except a bad PR problem for their families.
Huff Post Stormtrooper
October 21st, 2010
5:35 pm
Coincidence….? Soros buys 100 “enterprise journalists” and that afternoon Juan Williams is terminated.
Coincidence?
T.V. Said
October 21st, 2010
5:35 pm
Everyone knowa you can’t tell the truth about muslims, you must not be truthful you may hurt the terrorists ego.,
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
5:36 pm
@boots
Excellent! Thank you for honesty. You’ve made my day. Have a fantastic one yourself.
Tea Party Revolutionist
October 21st, 2010
5:38 pm
Juan is welcome to join us. We don’t throw each other under the bus.
Speak without fear, assemble and make your voice heard.
Sandra
October 21st, 2010
5:40 pm
My guess is that most of you who are commenting and calling NPR ‘liberal, elistist, and government funded’ don’t actually have a clue about NPR or ever listen to it. Most of you like the yelling and mud slinging and need someone to tell you how bad everyone is who don’t agree with what they say. I’ll take NPR over any of those jerks anyday.
Pat Carroll
October 21st, 2010
5:41 pm
NPR Firing of Williams Epitomizes Liberal Hypocrisy
NPR’s firing of Juan Williams for simply stating his opinion (one that is shared by most Americans and others around the world) epitomizes the smug, arrogant hypocrisy of the liberal left. As usual, for NPR, tolerance is a one way street. As usual, for NPR, freedom of speech is a one-way street. NPR is a disgrace. Juan told the truth. Like many Americans and others around the world, Juan gets nervous when Muslims dressed in Muslim garb get on an airplane. The NPR phonies call that thinking inconsistent with their “editorial policies”? Was Nina Totenberg’s statement that Jesse Helms should get AIDS representative of their “editorial policies”? IF MORE MODERATE AND PEACELOVING MUSLIMS WOULD SPEAK UP ABOUT THE GROSS, DISGUSTING DEMONIC ACTS THAT THEIR INSANE, FANATIC BROTHERS AND SISTERS COMMIT IN THE NAME OF THEIR GOD–e.g., beheading Danny Pearl on video and posting it on the Internet — instead of applauding when a great American like Juan Williams gets fired for expressing a simple, UNDERSTANDABLE, HEALTHY fear — Americans would certainly be more accepting of Muslims in general. But no! With the exception of a few American patriots like Brigitte Gabriel (God love her), most peace loving Muslims keep quiet. And that my friends breeds fear! Of course we’re afraid! Who wouldn’t be? Because we don’t know what Muslims think unless they tell us, we’re going to conclude that, if given the chance, they would join the fanatics. Because evil prospers when good men do nothing.
JTesla
October 21st, 2010
5:41 pm
Kevin: Who killed the Jews in Nazi Germany? Ummm it wasn’t a man that was very religious. At least not according to his closest advisors. Your use of Nazi Germany is exactly like the argument that you already discredited that our Founding Fathers created a Christian nation. Has violence been committed by religious people? Yes, absolutely, but it isn’t as much the driving force as you would like to have everyone believe.
Listen, I appreciate your views regarding science, I myself quite enjoy calling people who make pseudo-scientific claims to task, but perhaps you should apply some of that scientific reasoning to this particular topic.
I see that you are leaving the blog, take care and come back, because civil and intelligent discourse is always pleasant.
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
5:41 pm
I shall always speak without fear, honestly (as my knowledge lets me about an issue), and my voice is heard. I am not Tea Party, either, I am just an Independent Me.
TruthBe
October 21st, 2010
5:41 pm
Robert Oct 21 1:26pm, Robert you are a racist idiot. The People in the Tea Party are not KKK or skinheads. They are everyday Americans that are tired of this socilaist administration and it’s corrupt Democratic Leadership. Robert you need to stop drinking the obamajuice and get your head out of your ass.
Sandra
October 21st, 2010
5:42 pm
And to Tea Party Revolutionist’
You throw everyone under the bus who doesn’t agree with you!!!! Do you really think anyone believed what you said. I’ll bet you are one of those ‘don’t let the government mess with my Medicare’ folks. I have one word for you…..hyprocite.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
5:42 pm
Tea Party Revolutionist: Exercise your freedom of speech all you want; just don’t embarrass the guy who pays you, or you may earn is/her ire. Then you might just get fired.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
5:44 pm
@Pat Carrol: Who said Juan spoke the truth? He gave an opinion, not “the truth.” And what makes you the arbiter of truth anyway?
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
5:45 pm
@JTesla
Again I learn. Thank you for being civil to both Kevin and me, and for stating history as it truly is. I must leave the blog for a bit, dinner needs to be made.
Have a great evening and I shall return.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
5:48 pm
And in Pat Carroll’s world, peace-loving Muslims have an obligation to march on television, and be real, real loud about their patriotism while wearing American flag pins on their burkas. If not, and they choose to quietly go about their lives, they can and should expect us to suspect them of terrorism! Remember when all those Christians marched after Tim McVeigh blew up the Murrah building in OKC? Yeah, me neither.
TruthBe
October 21st, 2010
5:50 pm
Drew Williams, SHUT UP you racist idiot.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
5:52 pm
If you can point out racism in anything I’VE said, please do so. Until then, go play your games elsewhere.
boots
October 21st, 2010
5:52 pm
@JTesla – I never meant to say all Muslims are terrorists or evil. I don’t feel that way at all. I can’t help but notice their profound silence though when terrorist acts are committed.
As for Kevin, I don’t think Adolf Hitler was a Christian, and no serious historian or theologian (or philosophy student who minored in religion) would say so either. Stalin, the Aztecs, the Myans, Attila the Hun, Genghis Khan, Tamerlane, Mao, Pol Pot… I’m pretty sure none of these guys/groups were active in their local church choir.
As for Juan Williams, he was fired for giving his opinion on another network. Clearly the context established that he is not a bigot.
JTesla
October 21st, 2010
5:52 pm
freespeechrules: save some for me, and thank you.
Drew Williams: “Remember when all those Christians marched after Tim McVeigh blew up the Murrah building in OKC?”
Why would they, McVeigh was agnostic. For the record, I don’t remember any agnostic people marching after that event either.
kevin
October 21st, 2010
5:54 pm
JTesla and freespeechrules,
Thanks for the thoughtful comments. JTesla, I am not entirely familiar with Hitler’s devoutness or lack thereof–just know that he frequently defended his actions by citing the bible.
Boots,
To suggest that atheists have no moral code, or more specifically that you cannot have a moral code without religion is flat wrong. Do you honestly think that atheists think of people as “pieces of furniture”!? Self Interest, preservation, love for others, emotional and physical stability, etc. are all things which inspire atheists to adopt some moral code. Just living life, paying attention, reading, learning, dealing with human beings inspires moral behavior. I seriously cannot believe you think morality cannot exist b/c atheists do not believe in religion or any focused group of teachings. That is completely mind-blowing.
Tween Barack and a hard place
October 21st, 2010
5:57 pm
Are you kidding me? NPR has had many commentators who downgraded G. Bush. Juan Williams was the best, most honest, straight forward person NPR EVER had. They are the most left leaning group other than MSNBC on the airwaves. I hope all you people who agree with this action are gonna make up for the loss revenue. Because my donations are stopping immedatiately.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
5:57 pm
@jtesla: McVeigh was raised a Catholic, went to mass and by his own words maintained “core beliefs.”
boots
October 21st, 2010
5:59 pm
Drew: there were no “marches” against McVeigh, but it does not mean that Christians did not speak out against him. Of course they did, and you can easily find examples. Further, McVeigh did not blow up the federal building in the name of Christianity – he did it in the name of over-throwing the gov’t. It was political. I’m not sure the guy even considered himself a Christian, and he certainly did not behave according the teachings of Christ. I think everyone lumps him in with Christians because he is an American.
Joe Cassara
October 21st, 2010
6:00 pm
You can’t spell Schiller without s-h-i-l-l.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
6:00 pm
‘Tween Barack is ready to elevate Juan to the sainthood. The man got fired, not crucified. So take him down from the cross, democracy remains intact.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
6:01 pm
I just pooped and peed my pants.
sharon zirn
October 21st, 2010
6:01 pm
This is between Vivian Schiller and her psychiatrist.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
6:04 pm
@boots: and I’ve seen footage of Muslims actively speaking out against terrorism, though it never seems to be quite enough to get beyond at least complacency and at most conspiracy. The point of the Muslim Center within blocks of the WTC site was meant to start building bridges and tearing down misperceptions. But nope, can’t have that. It’s a front to one of our newest sacred sites. So who wants dialogue and who really doesn’t?
boots
October 21st, 2010
6:05 pm
Kevin – I did not say athiest cannot have moral values or beliefs. Don’t build up a straw man. All I said was that there is no core teachings of atheism that dictate a moral life. For an atheist, it might be good for society’s sake for us all to behave and not blow up planes, and it conforms to a set of agreed-to societal laws, but it not wrong in its very essance, it is just bothersome. And, yes, an atheist does see individuals as temporary beings, brought about by chance, and answerable to no one after they die. Hence, my furniture statement. I’m not going to ramble on, but this is the whole “absolutes cannot exist without a God” philosophical argument. We disagree, and I suggest we spare everyone else the continued intellectual dribble we both can spout.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
6:06 pm
Someone let a hairless socket-puppet in, I see. Nice to know the rejects are out there proving my point for me.