First interview with NPR CEO Vivian Schiller on Juan Williams firing
Call me lucky. I had a pre-scheduled interview this morning with NPR CEO Vivian Schiller this morning before her speech at the Atlanta Press Club Newsmakers luncheon at the 191 Club in downtown Atlanta.
So lo and behold, the entire Juan Williams firing blew up the past 24 hours. I happen to be the first person to talk to her about it. She basically said he was on NPR as a news analyst and wasn’t supposed to express opinions, something he had done time and time again on Fox News. This was just the final straw. Commentators, in contrast, are specifically called that on NPR and are supposed to be opinionated.
She said this has nothing to do with Fox News or his particular views of Muslims. She is also sorry NPR did this while most public radio stations (including WABE-FM) are in the middle of their fall pledge drives.
After the luncheon, John Weatherford, senior chief operating officer at WABE-FM, acknowledged the Williams flap has been a “distraction” for the pledge drive, and he has gotten many emails and calls from WABE listeners who won’t give money because of it. He also said today is the matching day for Atlanta Community Food Bank and he hopes it doesn’t hurt them.
[Williams himself spoke about the situation on Fox News today and said he couldn't believe he was let go without even a face-to-face conversation. He was terminated by phone.]
UPDATE@ 5:25 p.m. The Los Angeles Times reports that Fox has signed Williams to a new three-year contract worth nearly $2 million.
Here is part of the Q&A:
Q: Okay. What happened?
A: Let’s state a couple of facts. Juan is not an employee of NPR. He’s an independent contractor. He’s not NPR staff. He’s an NPR analyst. We have a contract with him for analyst opinions to provide news analysis. He is not a columnist or commentator. He also has an on-going relationship with Fox News. Mara Liasson is also on Fox News and is a full-time staffer. We accept that’s a whole other issue. However, we expect our journalists, whether they are news analysts or reporters to behave like journalists.
Q: So did Juan really get fired over just those Muslim comments? [He said he was uncomfortable with Muslims dressed in traditional garb on airplanes during a Fox News telecast yesterday.]
A: There have been several instances over the last couple of years where we have felt Juan has stepped over the line. He famously said last year something about Michelle Obama and Stokely Carmichael. [The quote on Fox News early last year: "Michelle Obama, you know, she's got this Stokely Carmichael in a designer dress thing going" and that she'll be an "albatross" for President Obama.]. This isn’t a case of one strike and you’re out.
Q: So this is obviously not an isolated incident.
A: There’s so much misinformation on the blogosphere, it’s nuts. This has been an on-going issue. [Here's NPR's ombudsman's piece on him last year after the Obama comment.] When he does that, when anybody does that, it undermines their credibility as a journalist or in Juan’s case, a news analyst for NPR. Those two things cannot go together.
Q: Have you done this before with other analysts or reporters?
A: It’s impossible to answer that. Every circumstance is different and would create false parallels.
Q: As you mentioned, Mara Liasson appears on Fox News. Is there an issue with Fox News?
A: No. She behaves on Fox as a journalists. I have no issues with anything she has said on Fox. This is not about Fox News. It’s not about a political agenda. This is not about even validating or invalidating [Williams'] feelings.
Q: Mike Huckabee is now saying NPR has discredited itself and should have federal funding revoked.
A: Yes, I heard that. This has become a political issue. My God, I’m shocked!
Q: Could NPR live without federal funding?
A: Let’s go on a sidebar. There’s a misperception about federal funding and public radio. There’s the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. They receive $90 million a year and a vast majority goes to member public radio stations. Those stations pull in more than $1 billion collectively a year. It’s significant and important but not even close to the lion’s share of revenues for public radio. NPR gets no allocation from CPB. Zero. We are a private 501(c)3. We’ve had journalists call up and ask what department of the government we report to. That’s laughable. Have you listened to our shows? We do apply for competitive grants from the likes of the Ford Foundation and the Knight Foundation. As a result, some money from CPB does come to us when we win grants. Depending on the year, it represents just one to three percent of our total budget.
Q: What is your annual budget?
A: $160 million a year from station fees and dues, corporate underwriting, philanthropic contributions from individuals and corporation and earned income and earnings from our endowment.
Q: How healthy are you?
A: We had some issues the last couple of years and went into deficits. But we’ve regrouped and we’re back on track.
During the luncheon, she repeated much of what she told me.
“We are for civil liberties,” she said. “If you want to be a political activist, you may not also be a reporter or news analyst for NPR.”
Schiller also said it’s “sophomoric” to deride objectivity as a lie of omission, that hiding a journalists’ biases is a bad thing: “Yes, we are humans. We have opinions. None of us are impartial, that objectivity and absolute truth as concepts are unattainable. It does not follow that providing the most objective and most impartial work possible is not a worthy goal for professional journalists.”
She continues: “This is where the Juan Williams story enters. We have checks and balances to serve that goal. That’s why we have editors. We have an ombudsman and corrections. It’s why we let readers comment on stories. It’s why we run opinions and commentaries and label them as such. Commentaries are different from news analysis. It’s certainly why we practice journalism and prohibit journalists from certain activities, not just to protect the appearance of objectivity… it’s to protect the ideal of fair-minded journalism… People have strong opinions and professional journalists have developed procedures and standards and practices to counter them. It’s to draw a fine line between reporter and commentary and punditry.”
On a brighter note, she also noted that NPR public radio stations have seen their audience grow 60 percent over the past decade to 34 million people and that doesn’t include users who access NPR shows via mobile devices, the Web and podcasting. She is also proud that NPR has expanded its coverage in international news, the arts and sciences and other topics that have been reduced in other media.
“Our goal is simple,” Schiller told more the luncheon audience. “Deliver more news and information to more people in more ways.”
NOTE: I am a board member of the Atlanta Press Club.
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524 comments Add your comment
jpeditor
October 21st, 2010
3:18 pm
“However, we expect our journalists, whether they are news analysts or reporters to behave like journalists.”
HA-HA-HA-HA….
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
3:19 pm
Why pick Cornell, Harvard & Yale? Limbaugh didn’t go to any of ‘em and he owns the AM airwaves — no small part of “manipulating public opinion.”
joshua
October 21st, 2010
3:19 pm
This has nothing to do with Freedom of Speech. Freedom of Speech does not mean Freedom from All Consequences due to Speech. It just means the government cannot punish you for your speech or regulate your speech. If a private organization (like NPR or Fox News) does not like your speech, they are free to fire you, free to not do business with you. That is not a violation of the First Amendment in any way. NPR has every right to cancel Juan Williams’ contract for whatever reason. It just so happens that it makes them look like partisan, politically-correct buffoons, but NPR (and every other organization and citizen of this country) has the freedom to do make itself look foolish.
Paddy O
October 21st, 2010
3:20 pm
Political correctnesses rise in public awareness coincides with the rise of feminism, NOW and the female immersion in this countries politics. It is no surprise that the gender who attempts to hide reality with make up, fake hair color, fake breasts, shaved legs and high heels also thinks that problems in society can be solved by simply renaming them euphemistically. Juan Williams was fired over censorship, and this scum Schiller wants you to believe it is not a problem because Juan was not even an employee, just an independent contractor – more standard female manipulation and distraction.
Thankful for our servicemen
October 21st, 2010
3:20 pm
Ever wonder what our soldiers in harms way would think if they heard this NPR BS repeated on Armed Services Raido??
kevin
October 21st, 2010
3:22 pm
Thankful for our Servicemen,
I am curious what you think they would think, b/c your comment seems to presume you know. My guess is that their opinions would be varied, since our soldiers are individuals.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
3:23 pm
@freedom* CEOs will do what CEOs do — protect the brand. Are we seeing an example of not living by one’s own book? I see it every day from those as interested in the bottom-line as they are heady ideals.
Reverie
October 21st, 2010
3:25 pm
Isn’t it interesting that the same level of journalistic integrity is not applied to reporters, at least in the morning. I hear very slanted and very biased reporting and hear ‘nary a peep. Examples are when the host uses the word “Certainly” to describe their interpretation of a piece of news. Think about it. That word indicates they are certain of the intent but feel it isn’t clear enough in the report for the listener to pick up on. Sounds like “steering the news” to me. How about the under reporting of biased liberal attacks in political reporting and the mysterious lack of desire to report on the points of contention voters feel toward public policy enacted through congress over the last year. Until NPR institutes a corporation wide standard of fairness they will never get a dime from me.
Wendy
October 21st, 2010
3:26 pm
Can’t wait to see NPR’s spin on all these comments.
frank brown
October 21st, 2010
3:28 pm
Ms. Schiller has never heard commentary by Daniel Schorr who constantly said and did things she would have fired him for. Nor has she ever herd Nina Totenberg call for the death of Jesse Helms….but what the hell she snowed the writer with his own opinions. Read what liberals at Slate are saying and even on the View….dumb ass bigoted decision by an elitist liberal snob who demands only her view of what right really is. Schorr by the way was a known liar and had enemies on all sides for being a pompous ass.
You Distort/We Deride
October 21st, 2010
3:29 pm
I spend hours upon hours upon hours in my car each week, assaulted with 24/7 right wing propaganda. The familiar whipping boy is alway the LIBERAL MEDIA, but here in Georgia, there is no such thing. If NPR is the answer to FOX, Hallelujah! In Georgia, our news is unmitigated conservative talking points. No wonder there are so few true liberals here; the brainwashing is extensive and complete.
RetroLover
October 21st, 2010
3:30 pm
There are 1.8 million reasons why Juan Williams was fired, all given by George Soros. Rodney, you should have done some due diligence on that.
There is no reason for the NPR or CPB to receive taxpayer funding. And to say JW is an “analyst” is a huge load of bull. Analysis in the political sphere will always be subjective, not objective. It is a fairy tale to expect any reporter to be w/out their own bias and prejudice. I expect to reporters to be equally tough on Left and Right. Something that is soreley lacking on NPR and the MSM. After the bums are thrown out in 12 days, can we throw out the DC Press Corps too?
kevin
October 21st, 2010
3:30 pm
I think it’s worth noting that simply because NPR journalists do not pander to the right, that they are completely liberal. Just yesterday, Steve Inski (I think) laid into Jack Conway for his attack ad on Rand Paul.
US conservatism runs more to the right than anyplace else in the world. And consequently, what many of you consider liberal, the rest of the world considers the middle or even still conservative.
Paddy O
October 21st, 2010
3:31 pm
freespeech – it goes to respect for each other and a lack of an “inferiority complex” on the members in your group. Extremists in any neighborhood frequently feel it is their way or the highway, which leads to the oppression of other groups. In the US, those institutional oppression movements have slowly been elminated.
kevin
October 21st, 2010
3:31 pm
Kudos You Distort/ We Deride
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
3:32 pm
@Paddy O
I am woman, I agree with you in part.
My opinion on that is if women stayed home and raised their children as it was meant to be then the country would be far better off and the next generation to rule the USA wouldn’t be lazy game players who have no social skills. Some days I swear PMS rules more than common sense.
Now there’s something everyone will jump on, I’m certain, but I will not change my mind on it. I stayed home and raised my children, loved it, and now they have near genius I.Q.’s and are gentlemen in every way. They also state their opinions kindly, fight for their country, and are not always PC, because they are independent. Oh….Juan is independent, too. Go figure.
This discussion has gotten out of hand, hasn’t it?
Scientific Data
October 21st, 2010
3:32 pm
Drew Williams and Posterchild are the same poster
JTesla
October 21st, 2010
3:32 pm
“I have many Muslim friends so I must not be the hater…” please tell me there isn’t someone in the world that still thinks the “I have ___ friends so I must not be ____” line actually works or is even remotely a decent argument to make? Well it was stated at 3:18 p.m. so I guess I already have my answer.
And even though I’m opposed to the firing of Juan, I do have to agree that this isn’t a free speech issue. At all. NPR has the freedom to fire for whatever silly reason they choose, as we have seen done here. Very silly, more pandering than silly, but still a little silly.
Oh and “You Distort/We Deride” last I checked radios come with a dial that allows you to change the channel. If yours doesn’t have one you might want to have it looked at by a service professional.
Scientific Data
October 21st, 2010
3:34 pm
Posterchild and Drew Williams are the same poster
Posterchild
October 21st, 2010
3:35 pm
@Scientific Data I’m only me; I guess it might seem astounding that there are at least two people who have similar ideas (and even crazier that those ideas might not be blatantly conservative), but it does happen.
You Distort/We Deride
October 21st, 2010
3:35 pm
JTesla
I’ve scoured the AM and FM dials. All conservative, all the time. Care to offer any Atlanta, Georgia alternatives to the right wing propaganda that opens the mornings and closes the evenings? Didn’t think so; there aren’t any.
I don’t suffer fools.
Paddy O
October 21st, 2010
3:35 pm
you distort – there are so few true liberals here because the people of Georgia are not stupid sucker, sheep like they are in NY & NJ – they refuse to give the government a lot of tax money just to watch it be squandered, while over paid middle class poverty managers enrich themselves by never quite solving the poverty problem.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
3:35 pm
@ Scientific Data. No, we’re not. But if it’s any consolation, you are an idiot.
Jack kaplan
October 21st, 2010
3:36 pm
Vivian you should resign this is his opinion agree or not it was a comment not damaging to anyone
What is your problem I used to listen to NPR but no more. I am certain you have lost. Many listeners. Why should you receive any funding from taxpayers when you are so bias. This mistake of yours will last for many future years. It is done. Why would he even want to work with your bias organization?
Scientific Data
October 21st, 2010
3:36 pm
NPR seems to be headed in the same direcion as Air America.
Paddy O
October 21st, 2010
3:36 pm
you distort – in every corner of GA there is an NPR station available – on the low end of the FM dial, or you just too addicted to your opinion to realize you have not thoroughly researched your gripe?
kevin
October 21st, 2010
3:37 pm
freespeechrules,
2 things.
1 – this issue has absolutely nothing to do with free speech
2 – you say, “My opinion on that is if women stayed home and raised their children AS IT WAS MEANT TO BE then the country would be far better off and the next ”
According to whom or what, are women meant to stay home and raise their children. I am not a woman and find that comment offensive, not to mention unbelievably judgmental.
Scientific Data
October 21st, 2010
3:37 pm
Drew Williams (aka Posterchild) has scientifically proved he is an idiot.
Thankful for our servicemen
October 21st, 2010
3:38 pm
Kevin- I dont presume to know but I do know that there isnt time for political correctness debate when folks with towels on their heads are trying to kill them. Trust me, I get it when u argue “freedom of speech”, however, a “mission” has a clear objective and I worry that we havent sent a clear message to the front lines when all this BS goes on back home.
Joe
October 21st, 2010
3:38 pm
What a fluff interview. I particularly liked the “so this is obviously not an isolated incident” question. No bias there. NPR is a front for hard left Democrats, dressed up as “journalism”. They should certainly lose their 501(c)3 status. The arrogance is nauseating.
Steve Jobs
October 21st, 2010
3:38 pm
Termination for speaking your mind? There’s an app for that!
Posterchild
October 21st, 2010
3:39 pm
@ Scientific Data, no, seriously, I’m not Drew Williams. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
3:40 pm
@Joe. But the Supreme Court has clearly stated, just this year, that money is a form of speech. So by taking away their status and funding, you advocate the squelching of free speech. Now that’s irony.
JTesla
October 21st, 2010
3:41 pm
“You Distort/We Deride” They have these amazing inventions now-a-days called smart phones and satellite radio. I actually live in the very liberal and very blue Portland Oregon area, my radio waves are about the same as yours with one lone station airing liberal talk radio. The rest of the airwaves, conservative dominated. They’ve succeeded at it, so you need radio apps or other radio options to listen to alternative talk/news.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
3:41 pm
@Posterchild. Don’t feed the trolly- especially the dullards.
Paddy O
October 21st, 2010
3:41 pm
freespeech – the connection with political correctioness & female liberalism is well established. I personally am happy that woman now have the option to earn a living independent of men. But, the family and children have suffered. Also, women’s position in society has also been denigrated. At one point they were the paragons of virtue. The highly successful feminist movement has made being a slut & the murder of the innocent just a choice. Finally, even highly paid females in the teacher industry pretend they are not respected and well paid – talk about the height of manipulation, and unfortunately, self dis-illusionment.
RIP NPR
October 21st, 2010
3:42 pm
It is astounding that there are at least two people who have similar ideas (and even crazier that those ideas are blatantly ignorant), but it does happen!
You Distort/We Deride
October 21st, 2010
3:42 pm
Paddy O
“WABE is unique in the Atlanta Market as the area’s only twenty-four hour, stereo FM broadcast outlet for fine arts programming and NPR News. WABE FM serves as a news and cultural resource for more than 2.5 million listeners.”
Don’t see any mention here of it being the local “damn the Republicans, they’re all lying, cheating, fascist haters that drove our country into the ground and now want to re-assume control” channel. Perhaps a bit more subtle than your ilk, I suppose. A news station, NOT a talk station.
John Batiste
October 21st, 2010
3:43 pm
I commend NPR for upholding journalistic excellence by firing someone who compromised his contract. Thought it seems like NPR was defending Muslims, it’s far from it. They were defending press integrity. I will be donating to NPR from now on. NPR you have found yourself a new donor.
Everyone who disagrees with NPR are driven by anti-Muslim mentality and cannot see beyond the most obvious layer. If NPR’s funding is cut or if NPR somehow discontinues to exist, it will be a great blow to American freedom and Constitution.
I’m not a Liberal or a Conservative. I am not registered with any political party.
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate
October 21st, 2010
3:43 pm
Somewhat misleading to say that NPR gets no money from CPB.
A large part of NPR’s revenue is dues from member stations….which receive funding from CPB. NPR is effectively laundering the money to disguise the fact that, on balance, they could not continue to exist without tax dollars going to CPB.
NPR is a cultural anachronism; by definition; with the ubiquity of broadcast media options, any worthwile programming would be able to find a commercial sponsor.
All I'm Saying Is...
October 21st, 2010
3:45 pm
Seems like most are missing the point: Juan Williams says he draws conclusions based purely on appearance. Since he doesn’t work for TSA or in Airline Security, then he has no cause to act this way—he can certainly think it all he wants but cannot let it influence his actions. Why? Because, like it or not, he is an NPR journalist and any journalist must avoid the appearance of bias as listeners/viewers cannot help but wonder whether what they report is tainted. Terminating him makes perfect sense.
Juan Wms
October 21st, 2010
3:45 pm
Posterchild and Drew Williams are trolly and bi-polar dullards
JTesla
October 21st, 2010
3:46 pm
Drew Williams: your argument against removing their funding as it is free speech is silly. First, read the interview, they would not be impacted to the point of the removal of funds negatively impacting their speech. Second, check the national deficit. Thanks Bush, Obama, Congress, and everyone else, appreciate that little gem of debt.
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
3:47 pm
This issue is about free speech, Juan’s free speech rights, and since I have stated my religion here, Kevin, I’m certain you know where my belief that women should stay home and raise their children comes from. That it offends you is a shame. Should I have said that men should work their a$$e$ off to bring home the money, the bacon, whatever you call it and women should sit and eat chocolates all day while the kids run rampant, wear baggy pants and turned backwards caps, play games for hours and mutter about because they are socially inept, and then the women should jump up, get education and run the country? I won’t agree with that. But, that is our right to disagree. In my opinion, as soon as women got out of the kitchen and into the “men’s” world of politics the whole country went to hell in a handbasket and our next generation will make it worse. This is not a game you shut off, it’s real life.
Now, let’s get this back to Juan, Fox News, NPR, and the idiocy that he was fired for having an opinion and his boss didn’t like it.
Mj
October 21st, 2010
3:47 pm
I am with juan williams. Whenever i get on a plane and look over and see a muslim seated, i think, how best to get to this person quickly and kill them to protect my life and other innocent passengers in the event of a problem…
kevin
October 21st, 2010
3:49 pm
John Batiste,
Commendable post. Thanks!
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
3:49 pm
@Paddy
Missed your last comment, sorry. I agree with you on that. Fully.
Bib Nick
October 21st, 2010
3:49 pm
Had it been CNBC, he would still have a job…
JTesla
October 21st, 2010
3:51 pm
freespeechrules: “Juan’s free speech rights” The first amendments free speech rights prevent the government from infringing on those rights. I may not like how NPR cooks the books regarding their funding, but they are not the government.
So what free speech rights are you talking about?
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
3:51 pm
@Mj
That was the whole jist of what Juan was trying to say. Thanks.