First interview with NPR CEO Vivian Schiller on Juan Williams firing
Call me lucky. I had a pre-scheduled interview this morning with NPR CEO Vivian Schiller this morning before her speech at the Atlanta Press Club Newsmakers luncheon at the 191 Club in downtown Atlanta.
So lo and behold, the entire Juan Williams firing blew up the past 24 hours. I happen to be the first person to talk to her about it. She basically said he was on NPR as a news analyst and wasn’t supposed to express opinions, something he had done time and time again on Fox News. This was just the final straw. Commentators, in contrast, are specifically called that on NPR and are supposed to be opinionated.
She said this has nothing to do with Fox News or his particular views of Muslims. She is also sorry NPR did this while most public radio stations (including WABE-FM) are in the middle of their fall pledge drives.
After the luncheon, John Weatherford, senior chief operating officer at WABE-FM, acknowledged the Williams flap has been a “distraction” for the pledge drive, and he has gotten many emails and calls from WABE listeners who won’t give money because of it. He also said today is the matching day for Atlanta Community Food Bank and he hopes it doesn’t hurt them.
[Williams himself spoke about the situation on Fox News today and said he couldn't believe he was let go without even a face-to-face conversation. He was terminated by phone.]
UPDATE@ 5:25 p.m. The Los Angeles Times reports that Fox has signed Williams to a new three-year contract worth nearly $2 million.
Here is part of the Q&A:
Q: Okay. What happened?
A: Let’s state a couple of facts. Juan is not an employee of NPR. He’s an independent contractor. He’s not NPR staff. He’s an NPR analyst. We have a contract with him for analyst opinions to provide news analysis. He is not a columnist or commentator. He also has an on-going relationship with Fox News. Mara Liasson is also on Fox News and is a full-time staffer. We accept that’s a whole other issue. However, we expect our journalists, whether they are news analysts or reporters to behave like journalists.
Q: So did Juan really get fired over just those Muslim comments? [He said he was uncomfortable with Muslims dressed in traditional garb on airplanes during a Fox News telecast yesterday.]
A: There have been several instances over the last couple of years where we have felt Juan has stepped over the line. He famously said last year something about Michelle Obama and Stokely Carmichael. [The quote on Fox News early last year: "Michelle Obama, you know, she's got this Stokely Carmichael in a designer dress thing going" and that she'll be an "albatross" for President Obama.]. This isn’t a case of one strike and you’re out.
Q: So this is obviously not an isolated incident.
A: There’s so much misinformation on the blogosphere, it’s nuts. This has been an on-going issue. [Here's NPR's ombudsman's piece on him last year after the Obama comment.] When he does that, when anybody does that, it undermines their credibility as a journalist or in Juan’s case, a news analyst for NPR. Those two things cannot go together.
Q: Have you done this before with other analysts or reporters?
A: It’s impossible to answer that. Every circumstance is different and would create false parallels.
Q: As you mentioned, Mara Liasson appears on Fox News. Is there an issue with Fox News?
A: No. She behaves on Fox as a journalists. I have no issues with anything she has said on Fox. This is not about Fox News. It’s not about a political agenda. This is not about even validating or invalidating [Williams'] feelings.
Q: Mike Huckabee is now saying NPR has discredited itself and should have federal funding revoked.
A: Yes, I heard that. This has become a political issue. My God, I’m shocked!
Q: Could NPR live without federal funding?
A: Let’s go on a sidebar. There’s a misperception about federal funding and public radio. There’s the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. They receive $90 million a year and a vast majority goes to member public radio stations. Those stations pull in more than $1 billion collectively a year. It’s significant and important but not even close to the lion’s share of revenues for public radio. NPR gets no allocation from CPB. Zero. We are a private 501(c)3. We’ve had journalists call up and ask what department of the government we report to. That’s laughable. Have you listened to our shows? We do apply for competitive grants from the likes of the Ford Foundation and the Knight Foundation. As a result, some money from CPB does come to us when we win grants. Depending on the year, it represents just one to three percent of our total budget.
Q: What is your annual budget?
A: $160 million a year from station fees and dues, corporate underwriting, philanthropic contributions from individuals and corporation and earned income and earnings from our endowment.
Q: How healthy are you?
A: We had some issues the last couple of years and went into deficits. But we’ve regrouped and we’re back on track.
During the luncheon, she repeated much of what she told me.
“We are for civil liberties,” she said. “If you want to be a political activist, you may not also be a reporter or news analyst for NPR.”
Schiller also said it’s “sophomoric” to deride objectivity as a lie of omission, that hiding a journalists’ biases is a bad thing: “Yes, we are humans. We have opinions. None of us are impartial, that objectivity and absolute truth as concepts are unattainable. It does not follow that providing the most objective and most impartial work possible is not a worthy goal for professional journalists.”
She continues: “This is where the Juan Williams story enters. We have checks and balances to serve that goal. That’s why we have editors. We have an ombudsman and corrections. It’s why we let readers comment on stories. It’s why we run opinions and commentaries and label them as such. Commentaries are different from news analysis. It’s certainly why we practice journalism and prohibit journalists from certain activities, not just to protect the appearance of objectivity… it’s to protect the ideal of fair-minded journalism… People have strong opinions and professional journalists have developed procedures and standards and practices to counter them. It’s to draw a fine line between reporter and commentary and punditry.”
On a brighter note, she also noted that NPR public radio stations have seen their audience grow 60 percent over the past decade to 34 million people and that doesn’t include users who access NPR shows via mobile devices, the Web and podcasting. She is also proud that NPR has expanded its coverage in international news, the arts and sciences and other topics that have been reduced in other media.
“Our goal is simple,” Schiller told more the luncheon audience. “Deliver more news and information to more people in more ways.”
NOTE: I am a board member of the Atlanta Press Club.
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524 comments Add your comment
JTesla
October 21st, 2010
2:40 pm
Actually, let me correct something I said that “I disagree with what Juan said” but there really wasn’t anything to disagree with. He stated his personal feelings… nothing to agree or disagree with. What people can’t confess or admit to fears or feelings?
Silly.
Smackerel
October 21st, 2010
2:40 pm
I’m going to need a stronger pair of eyeglasses to see the distinction between “analyst opinions” and “commentator opinions,” the entire distinction on which this disingenuous pack of lies rests.
They can fire him if they want to, but don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining.
joe
October 21st, 2010
2:45 pm
Pull all taxpayer funding of NPR now! Even if it’s not all that much, they are misusing those funds and promoting the liberal agenda by refusing to stay neutral and objective on all things political.
PotomacWill
October 21st, 2010
2:46 pm
PREJUDICE 101: Bigot? Who, me? I mean, look, you know I’m not a bigot, but when I am waiting at the bus stop, I got to tell you, if I see a bunch of teenage boys with their baseballs caps on backwards and wearing big, baggy pants hanging half way off their buttocks, I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as gangsta rappers, street people, jailbirds or something, and I get worried. I get nervous. Real nervous. Isn’t that the way everybody feels. I mean, you see them in that ghetto gear, and get nervous. Maybe, nervous enough to get a special concealed carry permit so if they make you real nervous, you can show them you won’t tolerate it!
~twitter.com/PotomacWill
Posterchild
October 21st, 2010
2:48 pm
People keep saying that Juan was just stating what “most Americans” feel. I’m sorry, but where is the scientific data to show that “most” (which I would assume to mean at least 51% of the population) feel what Juan Williams described? I’ll be waiting here for some valid data, laughing at all the fear-mongering and insipid rants on this blog that will no doubt provide minutes of entertainment.
Candy
October 21st, 2010
2:49 pm
The firing of Juan, one of my favorite, is unacceptable. I will never, ever listen to NPR again. This act reminds me of Chavez in Venezuela!
Mary - Santee CA
October 21st, 2010
2:49 pm
The only problem NPR had with Juan Williams was he told the truth about his feelings and NPR does not want the TRUTH but THEIR TRUTH. If everyone would tell the truth about the their fear of flying when they see an obvious Muslim person on their flight their fear mirrors Juan’s. 9/11 changed everything and if there if momentarily feeling of fear it is understandable. However, NPR, does not want this truth to be told. This is truly political correctness run amok.
Nadee
October 21st, 2010
2:50 pm
JTesla: To your point I did not establish my contention that the right are hypocrites; well I thought that it was fairly evident. The list is long but just to sum it up from my post perspective, I’m saying had Juan said so and so made him nervous as I stated in the post, then the right would gladly go along with his firing. Fox news would have fired him also. But when it was said about Muslims then that should have been ok. You are right what he says isn’t anything to agree or disagree with; it was how he felt. My post wasn’t to take sides in that respect. Only to point out that people on the right have a lot of nerve and are even more one sided than they claim liberals to be.
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
2:50 pm
Juan Williams said, and says, what nearly every American thinks and believes about Muslim extremists. Like him, we all do not care for the extremists in ANY culture or religion.
Most of all WE WILL ALL FIGHT TO THE DEATH TO KEEP OUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH whether we are right, wrong, or even stupid in what we say. Forever I shall say what I think and believe…and Juan should sue NPR for this atrocious action.
Right now it’s against Muslims. Wait until this rears its ugly head to include Christians, Jews, Buddhists, and Catholics, to name a few.
NPR should be ashamed of Vivian and Vivian should be ashamed of herself.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
2:51 pm
And look at all the outraged defenders of free speech here, deciding that the public funding that helps pay for that free speech should no longer be available, further reducing free speech. So they both want and don’t want free speech? Hmmmmm.
Posterchild
October 21st, 2010
2:52 pm
@ Drew Williams: nail on the head!
Jay
October 21st, 2010
2:52 pm
Williams’ xenophobic opinions don’t belong with NPR. Other than headscarfs, which not all women who believe in Islam wear, there is no such thing as Muslim attire.
The national association for the advancement of bigotry and prejudice, otherwise known as Fox News, can hire him full-time to help Brian Kilmeade advocate for a pure white race while avoiding any “terrorist fist jabs”.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
2:53 pm
freespeech,how long have you been speaking for “every American?
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
2:53 pm
I agree with Mary – Santee CA. PC has gone way too far. This is one example of the Nanny State. NO ONE tells me what to believe or say and no one ever will. NPR is wrong, wrong, wrong. Juan Williams is well respected and he made certain that he meant extremists, not all Muslims.
Posterchild
October 21st, 2010
2:54 pm
@ Drew Williams, haven’t you learned that “almost all/ever American” hates Muslims? It’s unarguable fact, right up there with 1+1 = 2.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
2:55 pm
Of course; every American knows that. Take my word for it.
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
2:55 pm
I speak for every American WHO AGREES that free speech is our right and no one has the right to tell anyone they are right or wrong when it is OPINION stated, Drew. You stated yours, I state mine.
Posterchild
October 21st, 2010
2:56 pm
@ Drew Wiliams, your free speech offends me, therefore I am going to make dubious claims/assumptions regarding large groups of people.
JTesla
October 21st, 2010
2:56 pm
Is the opinion only valid if it is shared by 51% of the population? No, the ability for a news analyst to express their feelings should be allowed even if those feelings are shared by only 5% of the population.
Palin 2012
October 21st, 2010
2:57 pm
He is better off. Let him go on Fox more. He likes to says negative things to get attention. Hell he would defend Fox News right to call him the nword. I wish a reporter on that station would call him the nword. I would love to see that benedict arnold defend that. He is a bigot. I guess he would have no problem if a white/hispanic/foreign person said the same about his skin color. What an idiot!
kevin
October 21st, 2010
2:57 pm
It’s not about whether Juan Williams is entitled to his opinion; of course, he is. It’s about the context of voicing his opinion, and other opinions in the past. It’s about his relationship as an analyst with NPR. It’s about acting like a professional.
That said, if you disagree with NPR’s firing, that is fine. However, to echo the words of a complete jacka$$ like Huckabee and call for the withdrawal of federal funds from NPR is absurd. To suggest based on this firing, that NPR has gone far left is equally absurd. NPR may appear left to the likes of Hannity, Limbaugh and Beck followers, but to the rest of us, there is nothing liberal about NPR. It’s an excellent, thorough, compelling news source. Unlike Fox, and to a lesser extent, CNN, it’s not littered with moronic, vapid agenda-pushing blowhards who drop sound bytes.
NPR is without question the single best news source this country has.
Buck Futt
October 21st, 2010
2:59 pm
Standard NPR spin. What she doesn’t tell you is that the taxpayer money from CBP is laundered through NPR stations right through to NPR itself in fees. It’s a neat trick, and one National Politically Correct Radio uses to hide its main funding source–you and me.
Too bad she didn’t have the guts to admit that she couldn’t take the heat from her Leftist friends any longer and cracked.
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
2:59 pm
@Posterchild-you are wrong about ““almost all/ever American” hates Muslims?” Not all of us hate them. I do not hate them. I believe that Juan had/has the right to say what he believes just as you do, just as Drew does, just as we all do. I don’t care who funds what, we all have the right to our opinions and your opinion that all Americans hate Muslims gives me the right to say that you are wrong.
clayton fowler
October 21st, 2010
3:00 pm
That’s it I don’t care how good the music is, I’ll never give them another dime! NPR’s hypocrisy is breathtaking.
John
October 21st, 2010
3:00 pm
NPR finally showed their true colors. Even though I disagree with Mr. Williams on most issues I believe he was exhibiting the feelings most Americans have when boarding a plane and seeing passengers in full Muslim dress. I feel you are using this to get rid of Mr. Williams because of his association with FOX NEWS. I have written my representatives asking them to without all of my contributions to this Liberal organization. My tax dollars are being wasted enough without contributing to this corrupt organization.
Posterchild
October 21st, 2010
3:01 pm
@freespeechrules: That’s not my opinion. I am simply restating what other people have said (that Juan Williams is just saying what most Americans think).
Juan Williams: Fired for Just Saying What Most of Us Are Thinking? at Fior News Best News Collection
October 21st, 2010
3:01 pm
[...] CEO Vivian Schiller told the Atlanta Journal Constitution that Williams’ comments were the last straw for [...]
Mike Lynch
October 21st, 2010
3:03 pm
NPR has lost all credibility as far as I’m concerned. How dare they interpret someones comments as an insult to an entire culture! I will know longer listen to NPR on terrestial or land base radio. As far as Ms. Schiller is concerned she and NPR are playing into all the super left wing demands that NO opinion unless it’s theirs is work listening to. SHAME!
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
3:03 pm
@Posterchild-duly noted. Forgive me if I misread your post.
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
3:05 pm
@Mike Lynch-I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Salvatore Bucca
October 21st, 2010
3:05 pm
I have listened to NPR in the past and even contributed however never again will I listen or contribute. Biased, Left Wing, No Credibility and Unbelievable. Vivian Schiller,”You are a JackAss”
Good Bye NPR have a nice time in HELL.
Jeff
October 21st, 2010
3:07 pm
Ummm….correct me if I am wrong, but the hijackers who flew the planes into the WTC were not in Muslim garb.
Deirdre
October 21st, 2010
3:07 pm
I tried to get a discussion of fear of Muslims started yesterday on another blog. Almost no one wanted to talk about it.
Is that the kind of country we live in now? Are we too afraid to express an opinion that may not be politically correct…that may be seen as bigoted? Never mind 9/11…what about the USS Cole? What about the shoe bomber? What about the guy who tried to blow up his underwear? Do we not have some reason to feel fear…discomfort?
Why can’t we talk about it?
Jen06
October 21st, 2010
3:07 pm
So wishing Jesse Helmes and his grandchildren get AIDS qualifies as “behaving like a journalist? BTW, CAIR complained.
The weblog created by Affad Shaikh, the Civil Rights Manager of CAIR-Los Angeles, presently contains a link to the official website of Anwar al-Awlaki, the imam that issued a death fatwa against Seattle newspaper cartoonist Molly Norris.
Shaikh’s weblog, Muslamics, contains the link to al-Awlaki’s site, under the section titled “‘Muslamic’ Blogs We Read.” The link is found on every one of the pages of Muslamics, including the homepage.
Additionally, NPR Announces Plan to Bolster News Coverage of State Government Nationwide
Project Supported by $1.8 Million Grant from the Open Society Foundations. Who runs the Tides foundation? George Soros, the Progressives favorite sugar daddy.
Ken
October 21st, 2010
3:08 pm
NPR is a left wing extremist organization that should loose all federal funding. Firing Juan Williams for stating an honest fear helps prove just that. I heard a couple of days ago that George Soros is contributing billions of dollars to hire more news people. Gee, I wonder what side of the political spectrum they will be on? I don’t want any of my tax dollars going toward these progressives.
Jeff
October 21st, 2010
3:08 pm
I woud wager dollars to donuts that most of the people expressing comtempt for NPR do not listen to their programs.
Jim
October 21st, 2010
3:09 pm
The line between news and personal opinion Shiller claims to uphold is pure Barbara Streisand (with underlined BS). NPR is expert at taking the most leftist opinions, cloaking them in bad science and protraying the resulting propaganda as news. If Juan attended Obama rallies in his non-NPR time or campaigned for gay rights, he would have been fine. He irritated NPR’s liberal PC management – it’s as simple as that.
Nadee
October 21st, 2010
3:09 pm
freespeechrules: Just to correct what you said in your post; Juan Williams said Muslims wearing traditional Muslim clothing period. He said nothing about extremist. Unless you consider all Muslims as extremist. Yeah that must be it.
Posterchild
October 21st, 2010
3:10 pm
@ Jeff, you are my kind of people.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
3:10 pm
@ freedomofspeech. Juan has the right to say what he wants, but as an at-will contract employee, he also falls under the obligations set forth by his employers. In this case, it seems NPR felt Williams commentary was damaging to its brand, namely as an outlet that provides objective analysis apart from politics. Fox News, like MSNBC, makes no bones about their political leanings, so they are probably less protective. Now whether or not NPR went to far in this instance is certainly up for debate, but chilling freedom of speech is an incorrect characterization of this.
On a side note, when Shirley Sherrod was fired, I don’t recall Andrew Breitbart or any other right-winger screeching about freedoms of speech.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
3:11 pm
I see Jim’s got it all worked out …. in his head.
Paddy O
October 21st, 2010
3:13 pm
What are the odds that both Ellen Weiss & Vivian Schiller are both jewish? If so, this is highly unlikely, unless their is distinct nepotism going. Additionally, if accurate, what are the odds that this new entity has any notion of objectivism?
kevin
October 21st, 2010
3:13 pm
@
Jeff
October 21st, 2010
3:08 pm
I think you are absolutely right.
Drew Williams
October 21st, 2010
3:14 pm
“NPR is a left wing extremist organization that should loose all federal funding.”
And as money is now a form of free speech, as established by the Citizens United case, Ken shows his anger at the squelching of free speech by demanding less freedom of speech. What a joker you are.
chinese guy
October 21st, 2010
3:15 pm
“Politically correct” is the most horrible thing in this country in my opinion. It kills ideas therefore kills the freedom. Back in my country, China, there, what politically correct means is “don’t critic the government”. Mr. Xiaobo Liu, 2010 Nobel Peace Prize winner, is put in jail for 11 years because he is politically “incorrect”—pursuing free speech. However, there are some Chinese who have lived in the States for years still defend Chinese government on jailing Liu, saying that he is a criminal—intentionally overthrow the government. These people are comfortably talking about their opinions without worry of being put in jail because they are in USA. I don’t feel comfortable about this at all. I don’t feel comfortable to hear Muslims want to build their masque near the ground zero too. They are practicing their constitutional rights, doing whatever they want but don’t allow people to say anything they don’t like. Will there be a day that they stone someone into death in New York City? What would NPR say if it happened? Do we have right to tell them what we feel?
Paddy O
October 21st, 2010
3:17 pm
What it does have is a addiction to politically correct, ivory tower socialism bull pulpit which is then uses to manipulate public opinion, such that the causes of the elite, such as the “elimination of poverty”, coupled with belief that by empowering the government to attack & conquer these entrenched social problems, they can actually be addressed and overcome. In reality, it just drives up everyones taxes and, since the various programs have been going on for over 4 decades, simply provides high paying government jobs to same SOB’s who graduate from Cornell, Harvard & Yale.
Yeah, Right
October 21st, 2010
3:17 pm
Daniel Schorr – may he rest in peace.
Did she not EVER listen to him? He said many vitriolic things about both President Bushes.
Despite her comments – this is ALL about Fox News.
freespeechrules
October 21st, 2010
3:18 pm
*smiles at Drew* and tells Nadee that Juan did mention extremists and I have many Muslim friends so I must not be the hater you think I am. They believe deeply in their religion but do not go extremist in wanting America abolished or their religion to be the One World religion. I am a Christian with a Buddhist daughter-in-law and I love her deepy.We freely discuss our differences and usually in a group that has 2 Christians, 3 Buddhists and 5 Muslims. We all have a great time and learn from each other, at the same time stating our opinions without PC in the way and with full freedom of speech allowed. Funny how we all get along, isn’t it?
kevin
October 21st, 2010
3:18 pm
All of this freedom of speech talk is hilarious. Freedom speech is not even in play here. Of course, Williams has a right to speak his mind. Likewise, Schiller has a right to fire him. At my work I have the freedom to tell my boss to “Go F*** himself”, but he also has the freedom to fire me for it.
Charlie
October 21st, 2010
3:18 pm
Free speech is indeed free, but that does not mean exercising the right has no consequences. It can, and often does, as it did here.
However, NPR needs to come up with a better party line for firing Mr. Williams, as this pablum that Ms. Schiller spoon-fed to Mr. Ho opens the door to accusations that it was politically-motivated retribution. The CEO claims he was fired because he expressed opinions on another network, and as a “news analyst” under contract with NPR, he was not allowed to do that. In her words, “He’s an NPR analyst. We have a contract with him for analyst opinions to provide news analysis.” Yet NPR’s ombudsman, in the link provided in this very article, says the following about Mr. Williams’ role at NPR in an article published in 2009: “Last spring, NPR’s management put him on contract with the title ‘news analyst’ largely to give him more latitude about what he says. He’s now paid to give his opinion, and with three decades in the news business, it is often a valuable take on today’s politics.” So which is it? Did NPR pay him to give his opinions, or was he strictly an “analyst,” however Ms. Schiller decides to interpret that term on a given day? I did not always agree with Mr. Williams’ reports, but he could be counted on to provide a well-reasoned, cogent analysis – something that is too frequently absent from much of NPR’s programming these days.