Your morning jolt: Who did, and didn’t, apologize for what in Egypt, Libya
Egyptian protesters chant anti-U.S. slogans in front of the U.S. embassy in Cairo, Egypt, on Tuesday. Egyptian protesters, largely ultra conservative Islamists, have climbed the walls of the U.S. embassy in Cairo, went into the courtyard and brought down the flag, replacing it with a black flag with Islamic inscription, in protest of a film deemed offensive of Islam. AP/Nasser Nasser
Here’s the apparent time line on the “apology” furor that’s now raging between the Mitt Romney and Barack Obama camps, in response to riots over an anti-Islamic film that – in Libya – resulted in the deaths of U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and three staffers:
– Following an attack in which Egyptian protestors pulled down the American flag, the U.S. Embassy in Cairo issued a statement saying, in part, that it condemned “the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims — as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions.”
According to the Associated Press, the statement was an apparent reference to the video, and was posted hours before the four American deaths in Libya were reported.
– At 10:10 p.m., Politico.com posted a disavowal from an unnamed Obama administration official: “The statement by Embassy Cairo was not cleared by Washington and does not reflect the views of the United States government.”
– In a statement that was embargoed until midnight, GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney declared his outrage at the attacks and at President Barack Obama’s response. “It’s disgraceful that the Obama administration’s first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks,” he said.
– Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton issued her own statement at about the same time – again, the deaths in Libya had not been confirmed:
”Some have sought to justify this vicious behavior as a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet. The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation. But let me be clear: There is never any justification for violent acts of this kind.”
From the Associated Press:
Libya’s interim president has apologized to the United States for the attack on the U.S. consulate in the eastern city of Benghazi that killed the American ambassador and three of his staff.
Mohammed el-Megarif described the attack as “cowardly”…
Latest reports say the U.S. Marines are on their way.
***
It is no doubt difficult for people who have lived under a dictatorship for decades to conceive that criticism of an entire religion is something that can be done without government permission. From the Associated Press:
Speaking by phone Tuesday from an undisclosed location, writer and director Sam Bacile remained defiant, saying Islam is a cancer and that the 56-year-old intended his film to be a provocative political statement condemning the religion….
“This is a political movie,” said Bacile. “The U.S. lost a lot of money and a lot of people in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but we’re fighting with ideas.”
Bacile, a California real estate developer who identifies himself as an Israeli Jew, said he believes the movie will help his native land by exposing Islam’s flaws to the world.
“Islam is a cancer, period,” he said repeatedly, his solemn voice thickly accented.
The two-hour movie, “Innocence of Muslims,” cost $5 million to make and was financed with the help of more than 100 Jewish donors, said Bacile, who wrote and directed it.
The film claims Muhammad was a fraud. An English-language 13-minute trailer on YouTube shows an amateur cast performing a wooden dialogue of insults disguised as revelations about Muhammad, whose obedient followers are presented as a cadre of goons.
It depicts Muhammad as a feckless philanderer who approved of child sexual abuse, among other overtly insulting claims that have caused outrage.
***
Last week, only days after he gave a video greeting to the Democratic National Convention, former President Jimmy Carter became the longest-living ex-president in U.S. history, surpassing Herbert Hoover’s 11,553 days in retirement.
But Carter is in no way retiring. From the Huffington Post:
ATLANTA — Former President Jimmy Carter issued a blistering indictment of the U.S. electoral process Tuesday, saying it is shot through with “financial corruption” that threatens American democracy.
Speaking at the international human rights center that bears his name, Carter said “we have one of the worst election processes in the world right in the United States of America, and it’s almost entirely because of the excessive influx of money.”
….Carter praised Mexico and several countries where Carter Center staff have monitored publicly financed elections, and he said the United States should return to publicly financed elections for president. The system technically is still in place, but it is voluntary and both President Barack Obama and Republican challenger Mitt Romney have chosen to bypass the taxpayer money because they can amass far more on their own.
***
More than a few people are poring over “Planned Bullyhood” to see what former secretary of state Karen Handel has to say about them. Click here to read today’s piece by my AJC colleague Jill Vejnoska on Handel’s book – which some harsh comments by her 2010 rivals for the GOP nomination for governor. Here’s the dedication Handel included:
”This book is dedicated to anyone who has ever been bullied for doing the right thing. In standing up for what you believe, you might not endear yourself to some, but who cares, they don’t define you; you do. Have faith – God has a plan, even if it’s a mystery to you.”
- By Jim Galloway, Political Insider
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124 comments Add your comment
Skipper
September 12th, 2012
10:24 am
What a crock…..we are a bunch of panty-waist nuts to be apologetic to these goons! People counter with “What about the Christian extremists, etc., etc.” but these are just a few sick individuals. The Muslims are inciting crap all over the world. Everyone knows it, but apparantly won’t call it!
honested
September 12th, 2012
10:31 am
All religions should be despised equally and prevented from interfering with any exercise of Statecraft.
cc
September 12th, 2012
10:36 am
The wonderful peace-loving muslims marked the anniversary of 9/11 in Libya and Egypt resulting in the deaths of Americans. What can we expect from the ‘empty chair’ in response? Doubtless, another apology tour is necessary and increased financial aid will be a consideration.
America has no discernible foreign policy and has not had such since January, 2009. The only perceivable portion of our non-existent foreign policy has been appeasement, and we are reaping the dividends.
America faces no crisis in leadership. We have none . . .
Maybe they should have cleared it up their chain of command before releasing this statement...
September 12th, 2012
10:38 am
http://egypt.usembassy.gov/pr091112.html
U.S. Embassy Condemns Religious Incitement
September 11, 2012
“The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others.”
Double Zero Eight
September 12th, 2012
10:47 am
Many will suggest that the policy utilized by the former
administration should be strongly considered,
attack and ask questions later.. We all know where
that philosophy.led. The last thing the U.S. needs
is to be involved in a war in Africa.
DJ Sniper
September 12th, 2012
10:54 am
Why am I not surprised that the Romney campaign would twist things around to criticize Obama. Par for the course with them.
Whoever made this anti-Islam film seems to forget all the atrocities that have been committed in the name of Christianity.
Don't Tread
September 12th, 2012
10:55 am
“it’s almost entirely because of the excessive influx of money”
Well Mr. Carter, YOUR candidate benefitted from 3/4 of a billion dollars and bypassed public funding during the last election. Take it up with him.
And now you want to whine about “excessive money” now that your attacks on 1st Amendment rights of people you don’t like has blown up in your face. Political speech is free speech…get over it.
Liberals really hate freedom, especially when others use it to say or do things they don’t like.
honested
September 12th, 2012
10:57 am
An expatriate from the ’51st State’ hides in the United States while fomenting international controversy over superstitions that have nothing to do with conduct of US policy.
Find him and send him back to his country of origin.
Let them deal with ALL the repercussions.
Double Zero Eight
September 12th, 2012
10:58 am
The question that needs to be answered is
what would Willard do? So far, he has only said
that he would have done things differently.in the
region, with no specifics. Maybe he will expound
on his philosophy during the debates.
honested
September 12th, 2012
10:58 am
don’t tread,
If someone uses their money to impinge on my life it is hardly ‘hating freedom’.
Someone else’s money does not have special privilege to hamper MY FREEDOM.
honested
September 12th, 2012
10:59 am
Double Zero Eight
I suspect willard will return to the Dead Sea area for the rest of his campaign cash.
Shar
September 12th, 2012
11:00 am
The film was not made ‘in the name of Christianity’, it was made by a rich, dogmatic, self-righteous and self-described “Israeli Jew” who is hiding behind the skirts of the United States as he blusters and defends his smear and the deadly consequences to others from his safe hiding place.
Bacile is as ignorant, amoral and self-righteous as the “savage mob” (in the words of the Secretary of State) that committed this atrocity. While we’re bringing the mob to justice, we ought to bring Bacile out of hiding and force him to give his millions to the families of the people he set up to be killed. All of these zealots are hate-ridden cowards.
DJ Sniper
September 12th, 2012
11:00 am
Don’t Tread, please stop with the right wing talking points about freedom and what not. Whether you like it or not, Citizens United was the worst decision ever handed down by the SCOTUS. Corporations are NOT people, and they should not be able to donate unlimited funds without having to disclose them. That goes for the right and left.
honested
September 12th, 2012
11:01 am
Inciting violence in the name of any superstition is still a criminal act.
The United States is under no obligation to protect the criminals involved.
J Throckmorton Malcontent
September 12th, 2012
11:02 am
Smells like Israeli provocation to me, who knows why they are so gung ho for war right now.
Somebody ran their mouth and somebody else had to defend to the death there right to say it.
It is all quite regrettable. Why not be sorry about it?
Shar
September 12th, 2012
11:04 am
And as far as political cash is concerned, I agree with the former president that there is far, far, far too much of it corrupting our electoral process. Any candidate who is supported by private donations in place of public funding should be forced to sign pledges that those donors will not receive patronage jobs or contracts after election, and any private spending for political campaigns or issue advertising should not be tax-exempt and should have to name every single donor, every single time.
honested
September 12th, 2012
11:05 am
In any statements today, the President needs to include a statement to Nuttyyahoo,
‘The answer is still NO!’
DJ Sniper
September 12th, 2012
11:06 am
Oh lord, now that twit Sarah Palin has decided to offer up her opinion on all of this. She is the last person that should be offering the POTUS advice.
Auntie Christ
September 12th, 2012
11:13 am
“condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions.”
Luckily atheists and agnostics are not so easily insulted, we would rather self identify as a human being, part of the human race, responsible to other human beings, to see that all life is treated as sacred and just as important as any other. We see the obsession to impose one’s philosophy and belief system on another as a sickness, and the idea of killing someone in order to impose that belief system on another as insanity. Unfortunately this insanity is infectious, We will now see 10 or 20 million christians in this country screaming their lust for muslim blood,acting just like the muslim crazies who perpetrated this atrocity, all because a jew thought it would be a good idea to ridicule another religion. And all of them call the atheists and agnostics “immoral,” and actually think we are lesser human beings because we are non-believers. What is immoral is allowing oneself to be so caught up in these religions, legends, fairy tales or whatever you categorize them, that you forget your own humanity and advocate slaughtering other humans over some perceived ‘insult’ to these beliefs.
Now let’s sit back and watch as our ‘leaders,’ religious and political, and our ‘pundits’ in the media play this out for all it’s worth, with no other goal than to divide us, and therein enrich themselves, and in the end it will be us, the everyday johns and janes who are the losers in it all.
Malthusian way
September 12th, 2012
11:18 am
Ah yes, the pacifist Carter/Clinton (now Obama) days of old return, maybe we can give Kim Jong Un some more money as well……..it won’t be long now!
DJ Sniper
September 12th, 2012
11:20 am
Amen Auntie Christ. Stuff like this is why I don’t really subscribe to any particular set of religious beliefs today.
ld
September 12th, 2012
11:27 am
honested @10:31 am: well said.
Standing: APPLAUSE.
Don't Tread
September 12th, 2012
11:28 am
If you don’t like it that someone else spends money that they earned to exercise their own 1st Amendment rights…too bad. Again…Political speech is free speech…get over it.
To quote your Dear Leader: You lost.
ld
September 12th, 2012
11:31 am
Auntie Christ @ 11:13:
I see the effort of the delusional among of — of all flavors — to impose their delusions on others as an effort in TYRANNY.
ld
September 12th, 2012
11:36 am
Don’t Tread @ 11:28: well said
Anyone that claims to be so personally offended by what someone else says and is convinced that they can use that offense to justify murder with impunity is not only seriously insecure and lacking personal self esteem but delusional to the point of a form of insanity.
ld
September 12th, 2012
11:39 am
Malcontent @ 11:02
It is regretable that there are zealots that are so easily offended by someone else exercising their right of free speech.
honested
September 12th, 2012
11:44 am
don’t tread,
Citizens United was just one case, poorly supported and improperly decided.
To assume it will not be revisited (especially in light of the abuses currently being proffered by the ‘empowered minority’) is folly.
After all, there is still the ‘let them eat cake’ solution.
Shar
September 12th, 2012
11:47 am
Don’t Tread: Let ‘em spend their dough in support of anything they choose. Just don’t let them hide their names when they do it, and don’t make the US taxpayer pick up the tax-exemption.
Auntie Christ @ 11:13: Yes.
yuzeyurbrane
September 12th, 2012
11:49 am
Romney’s allegations are just more partisan bs. As to Handel, per the separate AJC piece on her book, she simply confirms that she led Komen into the political swamp of abortion politics. Most of Planned Parenthood’s budget has nothing to do with abortion but addresses other important women’s health issues such as cancer prevention and cure. Handel’s problem was that her main allegiance was not to Komen’s main mission, cancer prevention, but to the Republican agenda of pandering to the anti-abortion extremists. She is a politician and obviously did, and still does, see this as a smart move for her personal political future as well. And she got caught. Put on your big boy pants, Karen. As to her comments about the political culture at the state capitol, I have seen it up close and I agree. The obvious solution is for voters to turn out the offenders. Apparently, she was not up to it and lost.
Lunchtime Reads for Wednesday, September 12 — Peach Pundit
September 12th, 2012
11:52 am
[...] The timeline: embassy statement –> attack –> Romney Statement –> White House remarks [...]
honested
September 12th, 2012
11:54 am
yuzeyurbrane,
Luckily for handel (unluckily for the rest of us) she lives in a State where being a dishonest manipulative crook does not preclude one from public office.
Auntie Christ
September 12th, 2012
11:57 am
honested
September 12th, 2012
11:54 am
yuzeyurbrane,
Luckily for handel (unluckily for the rest of us) she lives in a State where being a dishonest manipulative crook does not preclude one from public office.
**********************
Actually, I think that is a prerequisite.
GaBlue
September 12th, 2012
12:03 pm
Bullies… Yes, there are a few right here in Georgia, stealing databases with doctors’ personal information from a professional organization’s office, setting fire to health services clinics, authoring bills regulating medical practices without having any medical training whatsoever, and showing up at the Capitol day after day, getting in legislators’ faces, and threatening them with continued harassment if they don’t acquiesce to whatever badly-written bill they offer, no matter whom it hurts. Poor Ms.Handel. Was she bullied into joining these self-appointed judges? Or did she offer it all up to them willingly? Bless her heart.
jebbery
September 12th, 2012
12:09 pm
“Smells like Israeli provocation to me”
Want to know what’s “regrettable”…that some Americans, like you “J Throck” whatever share this mentality that Israel is somehow the cause of any and every Islamic extremist attack upon innocent people. Guess what buddy, Islamic extremists and even many moderates in Iran, Egypt, Libya, Syria, et al HATE Americans just as much as Israelis and would blow you or I up in a heartbeat given the chance.
“Why not be sorry about it?”
Are you kidding me? Show contrition to people acting like savages who storm our embassy, kill our ambassador?!?!? On 9/11? Are you serious?
Meanwhile, Obama’s current posture on foreign policy is weaker and more wishy washy than even Canada.
DJ Sniper
September 12th, 2012
12:15 pm
Looks like we still have some people on this blog who didn’t actually read the timeline of events. For the uninformed, the initial statement was issued BEFORE the ambassador was killed.
And Romney’s statements aren’t going over well with either side: http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/foreign-policy-hands-voice-disbelief-at-romney-cai
jebbery
September 12th, 2012
12:26 pm
I’m completely aware of the timeline bro…
You’re focused on the statement — who delivered it, when it was delivered, etc.
I’m focused on the policy because it’s weak and getting weaker each day.
honested
September 12th, 2012
12:30 pm
jebbery,
Get this straight:
An ardent ‘Israeli Jew’ hiding behind the freedoms granted in the United States makes an overtly inflammatory hate film (not art, not legitimate opinion, just an attempt to enrage) and ‘distributes’ it in the United States in such a way to ensure it inflames anti-American sentiment abroad.
Now the clown is ‘in hiding’ and will probably seek ‘asylum’.
Send him back home in a clearly public manner.
And cut off all United States direct aid to ALL middle eastern countries until they can display a clear sense of generally accepted civilized behavior.
Jack
September 12th, 2012
12:30 pm
I kinda wish I’d said that, Auntie Christ. I too am offended when righteous folks seem to think that I ain’t righteous enough.
DJ Sniper
September 12th, 2012
12:37 pm
Jebbery, our foreign policy is fine. What’s not fine is the epic fail that Romney has committed regarding this whole incident. And as I said before, it was Romney’s own spokesperson who said that foreign policy is just a “shiny object” to distract voters.
jebbery
September 12th, 2012
12:38 pm
Yes…I agree. We should definitely make an example of this person by deny him the right to free speech and deporting him. Then, we should cut all ties and aid to the ONLY Middle Eastern ally we have.
We should definitely do that. Definitely.
Bernie
September 12th, 2012
12:39 pm
Mitt again signals the dog whistles to the Religious Conservative right wing of the Republican Party. A quiet message of the ” APOCALYPSE is ALL MOST HERE” do you want me or that BLACK MAN in the white House who does not know what he is doing?
This was Mitts message today. one of political grandstanding of the highest order. A message to further stoke division overseas and here at home. A division he wants to encourage, thinking that it all will somehow play to his advantage. His response is filled with HOLLOW SHOUTS of a Bellicose nature to incite more WAR for the American people without a care at all of the consequences that would be derived of such action.
We as Americans should reject such behavior and step back and make a fully informed assessment of the problem at Hand.
I trust President Obama’s wise and steady Leadership over one Mitt Romney, whose acts once again will reflects a VOLATILE and UNWISE reactionary behavior.
Mitt its time to SHUT YOUR PIE HOLE! More American Lives are at stake this very moment. something he has no care or concern for obviously.
Carol
September 12th, 2012
12:44 pm
The religous intolerance in American is just amazing. If an Islamic person made a movie identical to the one this idiot made the righ(wrong) would be up in arms. They would be calling for all Muslims to disavow that person. Yet there are NO calls for such because many of them believe that whatever the movie states is the truth.
The righ(wrong) believes in freedom of religion, as long as it’s their brand of Christianity. If you top it with a Israeli cherry, why it’s all the tastier.
J Throckmorton Malcontent
September 12th, 2012
12:49 pm
In this parcticular case, either an Israeli duel citizen or an American who identifies strongly with the Israelis started the whole brouhaha. It wasn’t like a Palestinian strapped on a bomb and sat on a bus full of regular Middle Eastern Joes. What acts is actual.
It’s the Xtian fundamentalists who feel they have a dog in the Israeli-Arab fight, because that’s where the Nazz is supposed to come back once the Israelis win the battle of Armageddon, right?
Not that that’s crazy talk or anything like that.
But for those of us who are more doctrinally sound Xtians, or just don’t care for ALL our constantly fighting neighbors on planet Earth,it is in no way the interest of the United States to be involved.
Let the UN declare the whole area a religious amusement park and place it under the administrationn of the Hindus and the Buddhists.
Retired Soldier
September 12th, 2012
12:58 pm
Carol-
Let’s run with your thoughts. A Libyan film maker makes an equally offensive film about Christians. Question: Would Americans storm the Libyan Embassy and kill their ambassador over a film?
Looking forward to your answer.
jebbery
September 12th, 2012
1:04 pm
“is in no way the interest of the United States to be involved”
Yes I agree. We should NOT be trying to stop Iran from developing nuclear capabilities. We should close our eyes and hope that UN sanctions (which have done NOTHING to discourage the Iranians in their quest thus far) will solve this problem.
Oh, by the way, the Hindus fight with Muslims rather frequently. Notice a pattern?
J Throckmorton Malcontent
September 12th, 2012
1:31 pm
If Iran is dumb enough to employ a nuclear weapon, they will be retaliated against and this particular problem will be solved, which is to say, replaced with a different but probably less intractable set of problems.
Muslims fight with Jews. Christians fight with Muslims. Buddhists fight with other Buddhists. King Henry fought with the Pope. Methodists fight with Baptists. The Mormons got tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail at one point. Total immersion Baptists fight with just one drop Baptists. No one fights with the snake handlers though, cause they’re some bad MFs, right there, they got the poison snakes, you know.
Committed to freedom
September 12th, 2012
1:34 pm
Has anyone appologized for our financial, military, torture training, etc. support of the two regimes that once ruled Egypt and Lybia? Just wondering. American history doesn’t begin on 9-11 and the amount of misery the US has caused in the middle east and around the world with our foreign policy, foreign aid, and CIA meddling in other country’s affairs is definitely more than most americans are willing to come to terms with.
Baron DeKalb
September 12th, 2012
1:36 pm
I wonder what the reaction of the US public and political establishment would be if Iran tried to stop us from making nuclear weapons. Our hamfisted and hypocritical approach to dealing with other countries does a lot to fuel the anti-American feeling in the world. Without the Iraq invasion and Guantanamo (actions which vaporized the considerable sympathy that we enjoyed around the world after 9/11), nobody in Libya would be paying attention to this movie.
Malthusian way
September 12th, 2012
1:45 pm
I’ve never seen so many pansy in one place. Thanks Jim, I now know why the President is apologizing…..for free speech. Just GUTLESS!
Retired Soldier
September 12th, 2012
1:48 pm
Baron-
You raise an interesting question. The U.S. has used nukes once, to end the war quickly with Japan. Since 45 the U.S. has not used them. Now the question to you.
Which would you prefer to have and trust to have these weapons, the United States or a country that denies the genocide of the Jews in WWII and is the primary sponsor of terrorism in the world today. Your answer is?
Baron DeKalb
September 12th, 2012
1:54 pm
Retired Soldier: My answer is the same regarding nuclear weapons on the global stage as it is for guns in the domestic arena. Once they have been introduced, it is nearly impossible to limit the destructive technology to those deemed “responsible.” The futility of trying to tell someone else what not to do while doing it yourself is right out of Parenting 101, it’s not a workable scenario. We should be pushing for global disarmament and we should not be afraid to take the first steps.
Retired Soldier
September 12th, 2012
2:00 pm
Baron-
Congrats with your non-answer. Because the impossible won’t happen (global disarmament) youare fine with the world’s sponsor of terrorism. That my friend is scary.
Baron DeKalb
September 12th, 2012
2:03 pm
You are very selective in your understanding of global terrorism and its sponsorship. We have certainly done plenty to foster violence and disorder in the world when it suits our purposes. You think that the US is naturally superior to other countries and that the rules that apply to them don’t apply to us… and that, my friend, is scary.
BREAKING: Romney renews criticism of Obama’s Libya response – CNN (blog) | Libtech
September 12th, 2012
2:10 pm
[...] York Daily NewsAnti-Muslim film director in hiding, following Libya, Egypt violenceWashington PostAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -The Atlantic -San Francisco Chronicleall 2,200 news [...]
Committed to freedom
September 12th, 2012
2:13 pm
Well said Baron (on all posts).
Retired Soldier
September 12th, 2012
2:15 pm
Baron-
You are correct I do think America is superior to every other country. I wouldn’t have much respect for any person that didn’t believe the same wat about their country.
You are part of the “blame America first” crowd. Wonder how your tune would change if one of the dead Americans were you brother or son. Libya is vety lucky they aren’t reporting massive airstrikes hitting their country. You can bet if the situation were reversed and Libya had the capability we would be driving for cover.
Committed to freedom
September 12th, 2012
2:19 pm
Interesting that Carter says that money has corrupted the electoral process, but never bothers to mention restrictive ballot access laws in every state of the nation. Here in GA it is so difficult for a 3rd party candidate to get on the ballot for congress that we have not had one since 1935 ! and that was a Socialist party candidate (no need for them to run anymore since both parties have become virtually socialist at this point).
Money is also not the problem – at least not the money coming in. The problem is that the government can steal as much as they want, print as much as they want, and spend as much as they want so there is so much loot for the lobbyists to go after. Eliminate government power and the biggest source of problems goes away. Hey Carter, stop looking out for the two party system and the power structure and start caring about representative democracy. You are barking up the wrong tree.
Baron DeKalb
September 12th, 2012
2:23 pm
I don’t blame America first, I just think it’s silly to expect other countries to follow a set of rules that we are ourselves unwilling to follow–and that goes for military interventionism in general and destruction of the environment as well as nuclear weapons. If, as you assert, everyone in every other country should feel the same way as you do about the USA, why would they not be totally justified in acquiring nuclear weapons by whatever means? And, especially if we have intimated that we might attack them, why would they not be justified in launching a preventative strike?
Retired Soldier
September 12th, 2012
2:34 pm
Baron-
You are far afield of the uncalled for attack in Libya. What I was speaking of was I would expect every person to be patriotic about their country. I suggest you need a bit of realism in your outlook. What do you suggest the U.S. should do in response to the four murders?
Baron DeKalb
September 12th, 2012
2:42 pm
I suggest that we proceed in a sober and cautious manner, and that we be mindful of the unintended consequences that have resulted from prior actions. These killings did not happen in a vacuum–they happened in the very complicated context of our relationship with countries in the middle east. There is no simple solution or response that will adequately address the problem. We should be thinking long term and we should avoid perpetuating the cycle of violence.
The Ghost of Lester Maddox
September 12th, 2012
2:42 pm
Poor Jimmy. All he wants to do is to matter, and he don’t.
Retired Soldier
September 12th, 2012
2:45 pm
Baron-
You should apply to work for HC in the State Dept. You would fit in nicely. Now off to make a living.
Auntie Christ
September 12th, 2012
2:51 pm
Congratulations retired soldier on loving your country so much. What I can’t understand is why you fault the Iranians for loving their country just as much as you love yours. The people of Iran daily are hearing an American Presidential candidate as well as legislators, commentators and other influential Americans advocate invading their country. These threats come not from some third rate power, who may or may not have the capability to annihilate them, these are threats from the greatest military power ever seen on the planet. This same behemoth overthrew their neighbor next door yet you say they should not use every means necessary to defend themselves from this threat. Tear yourself away from your “world of war craft” wet dream and say hello to reality, or better yet start working for peaceful solutions to conflict instead of looking for a better gun to solve the world’s problems.
InAtl
September 12th, 2012
3:01 pm
OMG! I can’t believe Mr. Malcontent said this : “If Iran is dumb enough to employ a nuclear weapon, they will be retaliated against and this particular problem will be solved.”
You are one scary person. Have you ever heard of MAD? It stands for mutually assured destruction.
InAtl
September 12th, 2012
3:03 pm
and here’s another scary quote from a poster who calls themselves Committed to Freedom:
“American history doesn’t begin on 9-11 and the amount of misery the US has caused in the middle east and around the world with our foreign policy, foreign aid, and CIA meddling in other country’s affairs is definitely more than most americans are willing to come to terms with.”
Wow, where do you people come from?
Auntie Christ
September 12th, 2012
3:28 pm
InAtl
September 12th, 2012
3:03 pm
Read some history. Start with our own hemisphere: Trujillo in the Dominican, the Duvaliers in Haiti, Batista in Cuba, Somoza in Nicaraga, the assassination of a democratically elected President Allende in Chile, the Argentine junta, the murderous Guatamalian regime supported by raygun and the CIA. Then look at the Shah and his murderous secret police we installed and trained, read up on the school of the Americas at Ft Benning, where the aforementioned tyrants sent their henchmen to learn torture techniques and political suppression. The State department used to refer to these thugs as ‘yea, they’re SOB’s, but they’re our SOB’s” meaning all the had to do was voice a sentiment that they were anti-communist, and we gave them all the support they needed to maintain a stranglehold on their citizens.
Committed to freedom
September 12th, 2012
3:33 pm
I come from the library where I have bothered to read the history of our actions, our CIA’s actions, etc. in the middle east. 1.5 million dead Iraqis from our sanctions, the overthrow of the democratically elected president of Iran and the imposition of the Shah in 1953 by the US CIA, the unilateral support of Israel no matter what it does in Palestine, selling of planes, bombs, etc. to Israel, the financial support of the puppet regimes in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Lybia (just limiting the list to the middle east – plenty more all over the world). We train these leaders and their militaries at places like the School of the Americas where they learn torture techniques, etc. We prop up their regimes and turn a blind eye while they torture and kill their own citizens. We have attacked, destroyed, invaded, and occupied two countries in the region. All this information is readily available in books, on foreign news sites, and on other web sites run by people who care enough about the truth to question the sanity of the folks running the foreign policy of the US.
Sorry you are from somewhere else.
InAtl
September 12th, 2012
3:37 pm
Yeah, Auntie, we get it. You hate America and all it stands for. Find me a first-world country that hasn’t had its share of mistakes. Sometimes difficult decisions have been made to go with the lesser of two evils, but I imagine you like to overlook that. The Shah was not great, but look what took his place. And while you’re at it, why don’t you totally ignore all the good that this country has done around the world.
InAtl
September 12th, 2012
3:38 pm
Committed, you hate America, too. Got it.
Committed to freedom
September 12th, 2012
3:41 pm
Thanks Auntie Christ – I was trying to just stay in the middle east, but the records in our own hemisphere are considerably worse.
Glad to see that some others have come from the same “reality school” as me.
The first step to overcoming your issues is admiting you have a problem. The US is unwilling to admit it has a foreign policy problem. You would think that 9-11 would have clearly shown the errors of our foreign policy ways, but when you have a president that is unwilling to look in the mirror but instead blames “our freedom” for the tragedy, and then the sheep eat that up as if it were the truth, educating folks is going to be a hard road.
Committed to freedom
September 12th, 2012
3:42 pm
Love america, hate my government and its foreign policy. Got it?
Committed to freedom
September 12th, 2012
3:42 pm
And you hate the truth. More appropriately, you can’t handle the truth. Got it.
jebbery
September 12th, 2012
3:43 pm
“I come from the library where I have bothered to read the history of our actions, our CIA’s actions, etc. in the middle east. ”
You must mean the secret, “I hate America” library, where every act of the American military is branded as “torture & mayhem,” and anyone who likes living here and enjoys the freedom our nation offers is branded a right-wing fanatic.
“All this information is readily available in books, on foreign news sites, and on other web sites run by people who care enough about the truth ”
Are you talking about the Al Jazeera web site or are you talking about every “Occupy” web site out there that was created to vaguely protest “the man” and his actions?
Auntie Christ
September 12th, 2012
3:47 pm
Inatl: yeah we get you too. everything is black or white, good or evil, for us or against us. If one dares say the USA isn’t all good and sweetness, one hates Amerka. What a childlike, simplistic view you have, which is just my nice way of saying your’re a moron.
jebbery
September 12th, 2012
3:48 pm
@Committed you should contact Cynthia McKinney. I’m sure she’ll let you know when the next flotilla trip is and you can jump on board!
Committed to freedom
September 12th, 2012
3:49 pm
InATL – Time to remove the rose-colored glasses and wake up to how your country got to where it is. It certainly wasn’t by following the constitution, the rule of law, or even Christian principles. As well, it wasn’t the people, consciously voting for the actions our government, its black ops groups, its military, its state department, its CIA, or others engaged in. This is not a condemnation of those who were ignorant. This is a condemnation of those who were not ignorant but chose to just let it happen without speaking up.
Yes, every country stumbles, but the history of the US since about the Civil War has been one of Empire rather than constitutional republic. If we had actually stuck to the principles we were founded on, or even returned to them when we found ourselves deviating, the story would be far different. We have taken a wrong turn and there appears to be no going back. Even those who would point out the truth and would try and return us to principles are condemned for truth telling.
“Truth is treason in an empire of lies.” – Ron Paul
honested
September 12th, 2012
3:50 pm
InAtl,
Do you support the propositions put forth in the Constitution or do you just view them as a method for building and funding the largest, most expensive and most deadly Military Industrial Complex on earth and then using that machine to exercise whatever hostility on whichever population has the unmitigated gall to live in a fashion American corporations are unable to profit from?
Just wondering.
Hollow patriotism is one thing. Hewing to the ideals of our form of Government is another thing entirely.
DJ Sniper
September 12th, 2012
3:51 pm
Wow. It’s a shame that so many people prefer to have the wool pulled over their eyes. To some people, any negative criticism of your own country means that you hate your country. Sorry folks, but as great as American can be, we have a very checkered past and a lot of blood on our hands. We are not always the good guys.
honested
September 12th, 2012
3:54 pm
While we’re at it on identifying foreign policy fubars, let’s not forget ronald ray-gun and his disaster in Nicaragua.
He oversaw allowing the interests of a few super-wealthy fruit planters destabilize American Foreign Policy in Central America and in Iran at the same time!
As always, the pocketbooks of the wealthy were more important than the lives of innocent citizens in several unrelated countries.
Committed to freedom
September 12th, 2012
3:54 pm
jebbery – you have successfully used all the appropriate catch phrases and have identified all of the “demonized” groups in your hollow attempt to justify your willing ignorance of the truth of american history. No point in wasting my time to list all the great places you can go for the truth – those who care, already go there daily. I think Auntie’s comments apply equally as well to your thoughts. I would love to be a fly on the wall when you actually are forced to face reality someday. It will be a funny sight I am sure.
Committed to freedom
September 12th, 2012
3:57 pm
honested – If you look at virtually every incident that falls into the category I was speaking of, money, power, control, etc. are behind every one of them. This country began with a significant undercurrent of merchantilism (or government/business collusion), advanced to the “American System” as promoted by Clay and Lincoln, and morphed into the crony capitalism/fascism that came into full force under FDR and his successors. Some very well-educated folks reading and commenting today (and some others).
Don't Tread
September 12th, 2012
3:57 pm
“Just don’t let them hide their names when they do it”, said the anonymous blogger.
Why don’t you lead by example and post under your actual name?
jebbery
September 12th, 2012
4:06 pm
@Committed I get it. Totally. I’ll have to find that secret library of yours, the one loaded with truths (not to mention the hefty volumes available on Israel’s de-legitimization and contempt for the Jewish state) and not catch phrases. One day when I find these “great places to go for the truth” I’ll face reality, something bad will happen and I will cry.
jd
September 12th, 2012
4:09 pm
Christians are taught to be humble — show me the humility in our responses in this column…
InAtl
September 12th, 2012
4:13 pm
Every large industrialized nation has its checkered past. (Gee, didn’t I already point that out? Could have sworn I did). So why don’t you two America lovers tell us what country you would emulate? You do realize, too, don’t you, that instances of things you disagreed with happened over many years under different administrations and different organizations lead by lots of different people who happened to find some reason to do the things they did. You may happen to disagree with their rationales, but you still haven’t pointed out a country you’d rather live in. Why don’t you tell us. And also tell us how you weigh all these supposed atrocities against the humanitarian aid and good deeds done by America. I’d give it 98 percent good, 2 percent bad.
DJ Sniper
September 12th, 2012
4:27 pm
Wow. Did this guy just say 98% good, 2% bad? He is really living in la-la land.
td
September 12th, 2012
4:37 pm
Someone has to be the leader of the world and make the rules. For some of you to think that we can all just get along and not bother one another are living in a fantasy world. For some of you to believe that there are other countries in this world that want to take our place as the leader and insist (at the point of a gun) their rules then you live in a fantasy world. For some of you to believe that the second largest religion in the world (Islam with over 1 billion believers) has a fascist sect (more then 10 million strong) do not totally believe that the infidels either submit to the religion, become the slave of a believer or die then you live in a fantasy world.
Some of you posters on this blog do not love this country in its present form and are working to allow some of these other groups to become more powerful then us and control us and change the country to a form other then the one we currently know.
InAtl
September 12th, 2012
4:45 pm
td, amen to that.
Bernie
September 12th, 2012
5:01 pm
America…The ONE whose FEET rushes to WAR, neither has a PLAN for WAY OUT.
honested
September 12th, 2012
5:12 pm
Enter your comments here
honested
September 12th, 2012
5:14 pm
Apparently we now have a ‘moderator’ who does not believe that billions of people are not religious and do not want to be encumbered by religion.
Kris
September 12th, 2012
5:15 pm
Smitty can huff and puff, shake his fist point his finger. All he wants.
The truth is he and his pet rhynnie couldn’t pour water out of a boot with instructions printed on the heel.
Leave the politics to the big boys…
Keep America free and out of war Re-elect President OBAMA
Auntie Christ
September 12th, 2012
5:29 pm
td
September 12th, 2012
4:37 pm
” control us and change the country to a form other then the one we currently know.”
*********************************
Before you offered your 2 cents worth (actually 2 pesos worth, you should have read the comments about how the USA’s desire to control the affairs of other nations, not always in the other nation’s best interest, has lead to our present state of affairs, but again with you people, if the USA is doing the controlling, the invading, the torturing, its okay, because we’re the good guys who do no wrong.
And for someone like you who never wore the uniform, who never put your life on the line for this country, to come on here and dictate who “loves” this country and who doesn’t is a joke.
I consider someone who comes here everyday and insults the leader of the free world with terms like obozo, obummer, the kenyan, the muslim ad nauseum, to be the traitors and anti Americans. He is the President of all Americans and to be insulted by small minds like yours is the ultimate insult.
td
September 12th, 2012
5:56 pm
Auntie Christ
September 12th, 2012
5:29 pm
1: How do you know if I have ever worn the uniform? I have not said one way or the other and I will not say because it is none of your dam business.
2: Go find a post where I have called Obama any word you displayed. Now if you would have said messiah and chief then you would be correct about me but that is not a cut down of Obama but instead a cut down of his followers.
td
September 12th, 2012
6:15 pm
Auntie Christ
September 12th, 2012
5:29 pm
“Before you offered your 2 cents worth (actually 2 pesos worth, you should have read the comments about how the USA’s desire to control the affairs of other nations, not always in the other nation’s best interest, has lead to our present state of affairs, but again with you people, if the USA is doing the controlling, the invading, the torturing, its okay, because we’re the good guys who do no wrong.”
If not us then who? Someone has to be in charge in every relationship, in every business, in every government and in the world. This is human nature and it can not be suppressed and if you think so then you my friend are a fool.
Auntie Christ
September 12th, 2012
6:33 pm
td
September 12th, 2012
6:15 pm
If not us then who? Someone has to be in charge in every relationship, in every business, in every government and in the world. This is human nature and it can not be suppressed and if you think so then you my friend are a fool.
*************************************
The fool is the one who thinks they can control and oppress and not have the enslaved resent their enslavement. The fool thinks they can throw their weight around with impunity and not incur the resentment of those who have been harmed by that hubris. The fool thinks they will be respected if they are feared. The fool thinks because we did these things I just described there will be no consequences. The fool thinks a President is weak if they realize the actions I described are counter-productive. In short, a fool is a right winger.
MrLiberty
September 12th, 2012
6:48 pm
InATL – I don’t know about Committed to Freedom, but personally I like the Swiss for their foreign policy. They arm themselves to the teeth, make sure that every citizen is well-trained, have hidden nukes (likely) throughout their mountain passes, never get involved in foreign conflicts by taking sides, and have never been invaded in modern history even though the Kaiser said he would during WW1 (but he knew better). In addition, they have local democratic rule, up until recently when they stupidly joined the Euro, had a sound currency, banking secrecy, and actually understood the meaning of decentralized power.
As for a specific country overall – I would have to say America, back when the constitution mattered.
Maybe you are comfortable with accepting the complete failure of a political system this country has become, and the shame its government has brought on the nation, but I am working to retore the republic because I know this is not what America is supposed to be.
And before you start blaming administration after administration as if they are somehow distinct and separate, its also high time you got educated about WHO actually runs this country and our foreign policy (and domestic for that matter). It does not matter which party is in power, the war party is always in control. The dems and the reps are just two wings of the same welfare/warfare party that has run this country at least since the establishment of the Federal Reserve. If there were honest politicians with principles getting elected, we could have restored the republic to its proper size, power, and function a long time ago during any of the previous administrations. That is not how this country sadly works. America was supposed to be the world’s hope. Now there is no place to turn. Millions all over the globe supported Ron Paul because they saw HIM as the hope to restore america. America is not ready to restore the republic and end the empire.
cc
September 12th, 2012
6:49 pm
My, my, the anti-America crowd is out in force today! It is my fervent prayer that those who hate this country have the opportunity to live in another part of the world that is more acceptable to them.
Of course, if the Kenyan has his way, he will deliver that life to you right here.
We will never know because of the anonymity blogs afford us, but I daresay not a single one of the America haters have ever served this country in any capacity, certainly not the military in actual combat during any war.
You don't say
September 12th, 2012
7:05 pm
cc
You served when and where?
This is Mrs. Norman Maine
September 12th, 2012
7:09 pm
The irony of a Jew condemning another religion as a “cancer” is too much to bear. This same type of thinking led to 6 million of his people being shoved into ovens and concentration camps. Remember that Bacile?
are you all serious?
September 12th, 2012
7:32 pm
cc..how come anytime someone says saomething bad America has done in the past you get made and call them anti-American?
td
September 12th, 2012
7:55 pm
are you all serious?
September 12th, 2012
7:32 pm
Sorry cc for taking your question. cc is correct you are either for this nation (good/bad and ugly) or you are anti-American. Take your choice.
are you all serious?
September 12th, 2012
7:58 pm
so if you have questions about things that happened in the past then you are patriotic?? does that even make sense?? America has a lot to atone for I don’t sticking our heads in the sand and acting like it never happened is healthy.
are you all serious?
September 12th, 2012
7:59 pm
I meant if you have questions then you UN patriotic?
cc
September 12th, 2012
8:14 pm
Wednesday September 12, 2012
“The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows President Obama attracting support from 46% of voters nationwide, while Mitt Romney earns 45% of the vote. Four percent (4%) prefer some other candidate, and five percent (5%) are undecided. The president received a modest convention bounce, but that’s now gone. On the day the conventions began, Obama was up by two points. Now the numbers are essentially back to that starting point with the president leading by a point.”
Source: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
liberalefty
September 12th, 2012
8:18 pm
CC & TD never served in the military. All TD does is look through black gay magaZINES in his insane attempt to prove OBAMA is gay. And all cc does is make petulant childish racist remarks in order to mask his numerous insecurities…
cc
September 12th, 2012
8:22 pm
td @ 7:55 pm:
Feel free to do so anytime. I was in for a minute and had to leave. I’ll be in and out all night (have a small problem here!).
You’ll note the Kenyan’s lead has mysteriously disappeared . . . and I’m sure that date was collected prior to the news of yesterday’s events had unfolded and the very weak response by the Messiah.
cc
September 12th, 2012
8:25 pm
liberlefty is persona non grata.
liberalefty
September 12th, 2012
8:26 pm
cc
i think OBAMA is the MESSIAH too…lol…glad u think so highly of this confident black president…
liberalefty
September 12th, 2012
8:27 pm
chickenhawk MITT trying to look tough…instead he looks weak and pathetic…lol
liberalefty
September 12th, 2012
8:36 pm
THE MESSIAH has spoken aka OBAMA….Hey cc & td y’alls OBAMA DERANGEMENT SYNDROME is hilarious…
guardian1935
September 12th, 2012
9:15 pm
Why are we apologizing continually for being a free country? Freedom of SPEECH, via mouth, film, book, video, whatever? Tell these savages in the Middle East that we don’t POLICE our citizens and punish them for their views nor prevent them from expressing those views. That DOES NOT MEAN WE ALL SUPPORT THOSE VIEWS!!! They, never having had our freedoms, really do NOT know and understand this very important distinction between our country and theirs. These freedoms are sacrosanct in America, and should NOT be apologized for! Are you listening PREZ???
T;ruth
September 12th, 2012
9:37 pm
WOW! I find it hard to even comment. Are Republicans really this stupid? YES THEY ARE!!! What a bunch of dumba**es! td and cc are obvious gay lovers. In fact, 99% of Republican men are gay, and 99% of their wives are lesbians. Republicans abuse their children, they allow their fake-a** priests to molest their kids, they can’t think for themselves… They’re simply the scum of the earth!
Truth
September 12th, 2012
9:38 pm
and that’s the TRUTH!!!
Truth
September 12th, 2012
9:44 pm
And by the way… Gay is ok. Except when they’re lying a**, closet, Republicans!!!
liberalefty
September 12th, 2012
10:00 pm
@guardian
the president didnt aplogize it was the embassy that released a statement condeming the film BEFORE the riots occurred. The whitehouse disavowed the embassy statement. by the way its easy to be brave in AMERICA when your life isnt on the line. But i bet if you were in one of those embassies you too would condemn that film in order to try to quell the rioters.
Bernie
September 12th, 2012
10:28 pm
The Republican Party and Mitt are starting to look like CHICKEN LITTLE. ” The sky is Falling, The sky is Falling! “. No Mitt…You miscalculated and showed America just how you will lead in a Time of Crisis. Leadership cannot be purchased, Nor does it automatically come to you, just because you think that YOU Deserve it.
True Leadership is shown when one can resist emotional outburst when everything around you screams in OUTRAGE! Mitt you were one of the SCREAMERS today and NOT one of the LEADERS.
honested
September 12th, 2012
10:46 pm
Has anyone yet identified which of cheney’s tentacles was denied a contract to which they were ‘entitled’?
I hope this is carefully exposed BEFORE the election to show that the causes of the shrub depression are still hard at work.
honested
September 12th, 2012
10:48 pm
guardian,
Listen to news sources other than faux.
You will find that NOBODY is apologizing for anything.
Yet we are coming to understand that the planning for the Libyan attacks may have come from our enemies here at home, or one of our middle eastern ‘allies’.
liberalefty
September 12th, 2012
10:51 pm
POOR MITTENS, he trys his best to look tough and decisive, instead he comes off as a petulant opportunist..
Aaron Burr v Mexico
September 13th, 2012
7:05 am
Look at the conservative comments here. Look again. Look at Romney’s smirk when he makes his statement.
If you live in the south….get out while you still can.
45-48% of the voting population are going to vote for this man. This kind of vicious disconnect will cause them to take up arms sooner or later in a 2nd civil war. The only other alternative is the expulsion of the south from the united states of America.
You don’t want to be here when either of those things happen.
honested
September 13th, 2012
7:59 am
Aaron….
There is a much better option….
Much, much better armed Progressives.
cc
September 13th, 2012
8:48 am
honested @ 7:59 am:
“There is a much better option….
Much, much better armed Progressives.”
EXACTLY what are you advocating here, little man?
cc
September 13th, 2012
9:57 am
Rasmussen report on Thursday 9/13/12
“The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 47% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns 46% of the vote. Three percent (3%) prefer some other candidate, and five percent (5%) are undecided. This is the first time in a week that Romney has held even a single-point advantage.”