Nathan Deal’s Plan B: Governor intends to step into transportation vacuum

On Tuesday morning, as metro Atlanta voters hurled an $8 million sales tax campaign into the trash, Gov. Nathan Deal held what aides called his first session with top transportation officials to discuss Plan B.

What voters dismissed was a bottom-up list of $8 billion in road and rail projects created by local elected leaders. (Read the main AJC piece on the TSPLOST vote here.)
The Plan B that staggered out of the governor’s office will be its polar opposite: Dramatically smaller, paid for with shrinking funds, and highly centralized. Projects will be hand-picked by a governor who intends to squeeze every penny available.

And no matter what others might say today, don’t look for a sequel to the TSPLOST referendum. A second vote has no place in the governor’s Plan B.

Instead, Chris Riley, the governor’s chief of staff, said traffic planners in regions across the state will be quickly asked to resubmit lists of road and rail proposals that require state and federal funding – figuring in an 8 percent decrease in federal funding. The governor has veto power over each list.

Riley said that Deal intends to use that authority to direct cash to absolutely essential projects in metro Atlanta and elsewhere. “The state’s top transportation priority is the Ga. 400 and I-285 interchange,” Riley said. But metro Atlanta residents could also find themselves enduring pot holes and worse for the sake of better roads around the Port of Savannah, he added.

That’s another priority.

The governor’s top aide said Deal had been hesitant to speak of alternatives before TSPLOST balloting ended. ”We didn’t want anyone to think that it would fail. But you can’t be a governor and not look at both options,” Riley said.

The governor is likely to express his disappointment today over the outcome of Tuesday’s vote. Certainly he will focus on the price of austerity, as chosen by voters. “Will we be able to compete in the global market with Plan B? Yes. Will every company look at us? No,” said Brian Robinson, Deal’s director of communications.

But in a way, defeat clears the way for Deal to assume full responsibility for the mess that is Georgia’s system of planning and paying for moving goods and people. The TSPLOST referendum, with its awkward system of roundtables to settle on project lists and a vote conducted in the heat of a GOP primary, was the handiwork of Gov. Sonny Perdue.

But, however liberated he may feel, Deal has few options. The most direct route – asking a Republican-led Legislature for a tax increase, whether on gasoline or anything else, is off the table. Some opponents of the TSPLOST, including Senate Majority Leader Chip Rogers of Woodstock, have said they’ll push for a second TSPLOST referendum with a more road-friendly list.

But that would require a Legislature willing to debate it, a business community willing to pony up millions for another campaign, and Republican leadership in suburban Atlanta that will speak up for when the time for voting comes. Let’s ask Tim Lee, the chairman of the Cobb County Commission, how that worked out for him.

Any attempt at a second vote will move without the governor’s backing. “We haven’t given any thought of presenting it to the General Assembly,” Riley said.

That leaves the big decisions on what will be built, and with what funds, largely in the hands of the governor, the state Department of Transportation, and planning agencies like the Atlanta Regional Commission. But mostly in the hands of the governor.

“The governor will not move forward without the consent GDOT,” Riley said – very carefully. Deal will court approval from the DOT board, but he intends to keep the initiative. The governor recently appointed a trusted aide, Toby Carr, as the DOT’s planning director, giving him another layer of control over what transportation projects are funded.

So the Atlanta Regional Commission will soon have to clear its wish lists with the governor. ARC Chairman Tad Leithead said he’ll be happy to do so. “I think the entire state would welcome anything the governor does to keep transportation moving,” he said.

- By Jim Galloway, Political Insider

For instant updates, follow me on Twitter, or connect with me on Facebook.

424 comments Add your comment

Jason

July 31st, 2012
11:20 pm

Plan B? Wait, I was told there would be no Plan B. It was TSPLOST or nothing. We were lied to AGAIN?

Benjy

July 31st, 2012
11:29 pm

So it appears that, in rejecting T-SPLOST, lovers of local control everywhere (small-government types) have concentrated the power to make these decisions in the hands of one man. Hope they’re happy.

GT Alum

July 31st, 2012
11:30 pm

Well, it all depends. There’s not going to be anything as big and far-reaching as TSPLOST, but there’s no way they weren’t going to try to make some significant improvements to the state’s transportation infrastructure.

Look before I leap...

July 31st, 2012
11:31 pm

Reading between the lines, it appears that Deal is poised to crown himself the czar of transportation in the state, and I am sensing some intended retribution for having his suitcases full of cash evaporate before his eyes.

And quite frankly, if for no other reason than the fact that the polling for TSPLOST has been solidly against this boondoggle for the past several weeks, it does not show much in the way of leadership on his part for not having his fallback plan in place before tonight.

And to arbitrarily declare that revenue enhancements such as raising the gas tax are “off the table” is ludicrous and hypocritical.

Do the folks who work in the gold dome actually believe that manure covered in whipped cream is any less odorous than manure served straight up?

GT Alum

July 31st, 2012
11:32 pm

Not sure I’d want pretty much full responsibility for Georgia’s traffic mess. If he’s able to make significant improvements, he’ll be a hero, but if things stay the same or get worse, he’ll likely be radioactive.

Cherokee

July 31st, 2012
11:38 pm

Too bad we wasted 8 years with that yahoo Sonny Perdue. What a loser…

Bill

July 31st, 2012
11:38 pm

They can call it what they want but this is just another tax. Georgians are taxes out.

Squeeze That Penny

July 31st, 2012
11:41 pm

Wow, Deal’s gonna actually try and do his job and uphold his fiduciary responsibility to the citizens of Georgia? What a pain it must be for him…

Kris

July 31st, 2012
11:42 pm

…..Anger the troll…this did..

Sonny scat’s Port of Savannah…

Deal your next on the voting list….
Having said that, I leave with this…
Impeach DEAL, RECALL Reed

Transportation Woes

July 31st, 2012
11:43 pm

I didn’t exactly like the TSPLOST project list but I was hoping and praying that it would pass as there is absolutely no way that our state legislature will make the necessary tax increase needed to improve our transportation infrastructure.
Any hope of future mass transit solutions to alleviate the congestion on 285/75/85 has gone the way of the Northern Arc as well. The genius politicians like Chip Rogers will claim the vote represented a rejection of mass transit.
Sadly this just means that Atlanta will continue to watch as any transportation funds raised through gas taxes will be funneled out of the metro area to fund a new bypass through (insert S. Georgia city) and its powerful Republican in the state legislature.

StingerSplash

July 31st, 2012
11:43 pm

TSPLOST was badly needed here in Coastal Georgia and was heavy in much-needed improvements. And it got spanked. There’s no way it’s coming back for a vote again. The anti-tax wave swamped the need to build roads to ease congestion and open access for the economy.

O4W

July 31st, 2012
11:43 pm

“Some opponents of the TSPLOST, including Senate Majority Leader Chip Rogers of Woodstock, have said they’ll push for a second TSPLOST referendum with a more road-friendly list.”

Ah yes, more of the same M.O. for the past four decades: enrich the road lobby while screwing MARTA, that’ll fix our transportation woes…

Iconoclast

July 31st, 2012
11:45 pm

TSPLOST hasn’t failed in every region of the state. Atlanta and north Georgia should soon have the opportunity to cry in its wet-diapers while Savannah and the Coastal Empire play host to a new era of economic development and sustainable growth.

The NAACP, Sierra Club, and the Tea Party have done more to set-back Atlanta and metro north Georgia than Sherman’s campaign against a few steel tracks.

Kris

July 31st, 2012
11:48 pm

I guess all the green CWM…trucks are headed South…

Anger the asphalt crooks this did…They better get used to it…

Wade Medlock

July 31st, 2012
11:50 pm

Fix million typo in graf1 to billion.

Logical Dude

July 31st, 2012
11:50 pm

Let’s say that all those at the state level arguing FOR TSPLOST actually got off their butts and did something about transit in Atlanta and the extended region around Atlanta.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Sorry, as much as it pains me, I don’t see it happening. I HOPE it happens. I HOPE this governor has the foresight to drive successful transit for the State Capital that prepares for the next 50 years. I HOPE the state legislature does their job and not slop their responsibility on others and then say “you should have done it!”
But alas, this is Georgia. . . and it will be scared politicians behaving like scared politicians with no vision. Lord, I hope I’m proved wrong, but I really do hope the State can get their act together.

Kris

July 31st, 2012
11:50 pm

Enter your comments here

hiram

July 31st, 2012
11:51 pm

Deal is like Br’er Rabbit – please, please, please don’t throw me in that briar patch! Guess who will be the sole focus of the unlimited, gift bearing lobbyists?

BW

July 31st, 2012
11:54 pm

Look Before I Leap

You don’t have to read between the lines at all….Gov Deal is taking over…forget referendums that will allow another embarrassment like the one endured tonight. You shouldn’t be surprised because this is the way it’s been done since…forever.

Jason

July 31st, 2012
11:55 pm

Various studies have shown that a parking tax in the City of Atlanta would raise more money that TSPLOST. And all of that money could go to projects in the city without involving the state at all. Almost every other city the size of Atlanta has a parking tax but we’re so addicted to making things as cheap as possible for driving everywhere that we won’t even consider the possibility.

Ker mitt

July 31st, 2012
11:58 pm

boot all the parkers in the atl – squeege them now.

TrishaDishaWarEagle

August 1st, 2012
12:02 am

@iconoclast..yes TSPLOST did fail in all 12 regions. It’s dead as disco. If the government sees a dire need to spend more on roads then they must take that money from elsewhere in the budget. We are too heavily taxed as -is.government must now pick and choose what to spend on, not simply choose all of the above and raise taxes.

ep

August 1st, 2012
12:04 am

Reap what you sew. Good luck getting new business.

Look before I leap...

August 1st, 2012
12:07 am

“Wow, Deal’s gonna actually try and do his job and uphold his fiduciary responsibility to the citizens of Georgia? What a pain it must be for him…”

No, Deal is going to make sure that all the palm-greasing is confined to his corrupt little hands.

It’s like that game show with Howie Mandel a few years ago, “Deal or No Deal” (dontcha just LOVE the irony there?).
The million dollar briefcase was just taken out, but there are still big cases to be won.

Deal’s initiative selection will be carefully crafted to produce the most votes. Atlanta is SOOOOO screwed when it comes to fixing potholes.

Look before I leap...

August 1st, 2012
12:10 am

@Trisha:

TSPLOST was approved in Central Savannah River (7), River valley (8), and Heart of Georgia (9) .

Cherokee

August 1st, 2012
12:11 am

What ep said. Why would any business move here over, say, Charlotte, and spend all that money sitting in traffic?

In a few years Atlanta will just be another Birmingham.

Kris

August 1st, 2012
12:14 am

@ Look, As citizens we will have to closely monitor DEALs and the legislators Dealings.

Since this was part of Sonny’s big plan is it possible that good ole Natis just put the screws to sonny scat.

Impeach DEAL…

Vote no Tsplost

August 1st, 2012
12:15 am

Now they can get a back bone and deal with the fuel tax, I will support that, but I think Mr. Deal will have a bulls eye on hinm come next election, Sen Johny Grant is gone, we have worked hard to this end. Let this be a lesson to those that would try to place an odious tax on us.

Vote no Tsplost

August 1st, 2012
12:15 am

Friends Georgians Voters, Lend me your ears!! Yes a bit corny, but it worked once!

Well I have done my best to help defeat this TAX increase, I have worked hard these past 5 weeks, now we wait, and hope the rain does not cut the NO voter turnout.

Tomorrow there will be more political battles to fight, maybe you younger folks, seeing what the state has tried to pull over it’s citizens, will take, any organizations and contacts you may have formed in the TSPLSOT fight, on to new battles.

Wherever we see wrong doing, by our elected officials, we must act and speak out.

I would suggest that we now carry the fight to those officials that tried to burden us with this odious TAX. Lets rally together, and work to replace these senators and Reps. Only by seeing one of their kind fall, to an opponent, in the next election, will they REALLY TRULY get the message!!!

After 67 years I have become a bit jaded with politics, the amount of money floating about, to buy and sell our politicians, is amazing and discouraging. The last honest politician I can be sure about, is Harry Truman, who, on his return home, had to borrow money to buy back the family farm an get by, until he could write and sell his papers.

I think the biggest mistake we have made in the recent past, is to go to computer ballots.

We also need to return to the very easy to use, OPTICAL SCANNER. With that, you had a paper record and it was quick voting, If you did not mind anyone seeing, you could use any flat surface to write on and cast your ballot.

Oh well,, I guess I can dream can’t I.

Cheers,

Look before I leap...

August 1st, 2012
12:15 am

“Reap what you sew. Good luck getting new business.”

You don’t think a sales tax rate of 9.5% was going to be discouraging to some businesses?
Or a state ranked 49th in education?
Top 3 in bank failures in the last 5 years?

rod

August 1st, 2012
12:15 am

Deal is a idiot i bet Gainesville gets improvement Repubs are majority lets see what they will do he will be watched no matter what he does if I was him i woukd stay out of this he only has 2 years left anyway what can you do in 2 years Deal lol what a joke

oldfart

August 1st, 2012
12:17 am

Sonny was going to rein in the DOT board too. They chewed up Gena Evans and spit her back out. SRTA was split off and Gena was given full autonomy with toll money and toll road construction out of spite. Yeah that worked out real well.

TrishaDishaWarEagle

August 1st, 2012
12:21 am

@Look…I stand corrected..yes it did..the ajc grid was a little misleading at first glance.

They can pave main street in Blakely now…

Look before I leap...

August 1st, 2012
12:24 am

Jim: Any chance we can get a precinct by precinct analysis on the Atlanta Metro TSPLOST voting tomorrow?

hiram

August 1st, 2012
12:24 am

I figured out why the Real Deal has taken such a strong interest in Savannah, and appointed his Gainesville junk car inspector partner to the port authority. Looks like a repeat of the previous eight years for Georgia’s citizens.

“Atlanta is a hub for many of the large trading companies that send chickens on their international journey. The Port of Savannah boasts the busiest poultry-export operation in the country, moving about 40 percent of all U.S. containerized exports of poultry. It handled 1.6 billion pounds of poultry during the fiscal year that ended June 30, moving more than 67,000 20-foot containers.”

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/10/02/v-print/125887/why-did-the-chicken-cross-the.html

Look before I leap...

August 1st, 2012
12:29 am

“TSPLOST hasn’t failed in every region of the state. Atlanta and north Georgia should soon have the opportunity to cry in its wet-diapers while Savannah and the Coastal Empire play host to a new era of economic development and sustainable growth.”

Uh huh. Very funny
Got any money in that bucket for an airport?

hiram

August 1st, 2012
12:30 am

Now that the Real Deal is in charge of all transportation projects, look for new six lane highway and or high speed train from Gainesville to Savannah.

Rotunda $haquonda 0bama

August 1st, 2012
12:31 am

Deal is another RINO on the list.

Kris

August 1st, 2012
12:31 am

@ hiram, dead chicken you say, I thought the KFC handled that…he he

Now on to the other problems this forum can solve.

Home foreclose. (where is the 97 million the Feds gave GA. Put it in its rightful pockets.
Most likely to get a ticket if Stopped and cavity search!! OUCH!

War on Women. Damn wrong Period!! damn wrong

EDUCATION. Gambling will not fix this problem.

Lack of ETHICS. Made progress need super tough penilities for violators…make it hurt bad.

Just a few…

How do we make this happen. ????? Just a few Ideas.
Class action lawsuit by the citizens involved in the affective areas against the state of GA.
(there is a lawyer amongst us). Or all the citizens of GA vs the GA government.
I like this one ” Vote all of those responsible OUT of office. and run Natie out on a rail)”.
Folk’s belly aching and bullying is not going to fix the problem.
Shame on the bullies we know who you are
We can figure this out..Were smarter than the politicians

Leedart

August 1st, 2012
12:35 am

If the people want a hole of a city, I hope the business leaders see this and start moving all of the HQ’s out of Ga and on up to Charlotte, etc. then all of the new Cotrices and small minds will shrink into the hole that they have dug. I am actually glad this happened so that the real face of the south will be seen by potential employers/ investors. Guaranteed losses for the region. Now just need to walk away from this house here and help you dig your graves.

Red Phillips

August 1st, 2012
12:36 am

I hope a real conservative primaries Deal and confronts him on his support of a tax increase. Deal promised he would not support any tax increases. He lied.

ray

August 1st, 2012
12:37 am

I voted for t-splost but was not all the way behind it….WE NEED MASS TRANSIT….NOW

Jack

August 1st, 2012
12:41 am

Well done Tea Party and anti-tax NIMBY’s (aka, Not In My Back Yard’ers). You got what you wished for. Don’t even think about complaining about that traffic jam you will inevitably sit in tomorrow morning on 400.

hiram

August 1st, 2012
12:42 am

Looks like a new company may be in the works – Perdue,Deal and Associates, LLC

“Perdue Partners, LLC is founded on rich experience and broad expertise in private industry, international economic development and commerce, and government.”

http://perduepartners.com/about/

Braves

August 1st, 2012
12:42 am

Can we get a MARTA station at Turner Field now? How come MARTA does’t go to Turner Field? I’m glad ya’ll voted no. What a total mess this was…

Yet Another Expert

August 1st, 2012
12:42 am

Who would have thought so many policy experts existed as anonymous commenters on the AJC? We’ve got all the answers right here.

Aaron Burr V Mexico

August 1st, 2012
12:43 am

Excellent. Its a win win for me. Deal and Reed get humiliated, and now OTP is gonna learn that when you elect a crook and then upset a crook, the crook is going to pay you back.

LOLZ.

Oh Atlanta won’t be happy either…but they elected Kasim Reed. Not much sympathy, but at least they’re better than OTP.

MichaelB

August 1st, 2012
12:44 am

If history is a guide, it is only logical that funding for education will again be reduced to pay for road improvements. Any time the state wants more money, they reduce education funding. Then he will get his road improvements, but education will again take a back seat. Got to feed your transportation buddies first, ya know. Bunch of stupid bubbas.

Not with our Money!

August 1st, 2012
12:47 am

I know it hurt, but thankfully, you can pick up Plan B when your local pharmacy opens in a few hours. No prescription needed.

curt

August 1st, 2012
12:49 am

Years of funds spent on things other than the reason they were approved has come home to roost. Thanks Sonny. Now we know that pig over the gold dome in your first campaign ad was really you. The future we’ll loose due to your corruption and mismanagement will give us plenty of time to “go fish”.

Mark

August 1st, 2012
12:50 am

Let the roads fall apart and traffic get so bad the legislators either are forced to fund transportation infrastructure and administrate it properly and fairly or get forced out themselves. Ultimately, we can elect legislators on this issue alone. Let them get scared of losing their seats for this reason rather than let them lose it for raising funds and doing their job the right way.

Adam

August 1st, 2012
12:51 am

Thanks GA for your ignorance and shortsightedness. And thanks for making Atlanta the nation’s next Birmingham.

oldfart

August 1st, 2012
12:51 am

TSPLOST still has court challenges ahead. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the entire bill thrown out regardless of passage. They got the chicken before the egg so to speak without doing a constitutional amendment to legalize the “special districts” first. The smartest thing Deal can do at this point is throw Sonny under the bus. If he continues to bless the leftovers like TSPLOST and HOT Lanes then he will be looking at a single term.

Sameolesameole

August 1st, 2012
12:53 am

You naysayers are gonna wish TSPLOST passed when you will still have to sit in the same ole traffic and you all know who you are Cobb, Gwinnett..and all you other counties…those of you that didn’t want MARTA in their counties, yet you continue to come into Atlanta to use MARTA to attend your Braves,Falcons and Hawks games! You deserve to continue suffering!!!! So our city will forever be in that same ole rut, because of 1 penny!!!!!!!

DEAL With It

August 1st, 2012
12:54 am

One only has to look at the McGinnis Ferry Road widening project to realize the effectiveness of our government to get a job done effectively based on cost and time. FIVE FREAKIN YEARS and the project can’t be more than 5 miles.

I had the pleasure to watch the progress (or lack thereof) for years driving into work. I believe it has still not been completed. Luckily for me I work from home now.

Tim

August 1st, 2012
12:56 am

Why does the blog censor peoples’ comments even when no profanity is used?

Oh My!

August 1st, 2012
12:59 am

@MichaelB…this is not our first rodeo dealing with Repubs. They always slash the low hanging fruit and education is easy pickens for them to cut.

Decatur on Fire

August 1st, 2012
1:00 am

Looks like the Emoryites will be on the warpath now……..no softall games and Subaru rides around town.

Jason

August 1st, 2012
1:00 am

Sameolesameole, no I won’t be stuck in traffic because I wasn’t stupid enough to move far away from my job and centers of commerce. Chosing to live somewhere that requires billions of dollars of infrastructure to be built every couple of years is stupid but that’s the choice many have made. Now they have to suffer the consequences. Even if TSPLOST passed, it wouldn’t have done much to reduce the commutes of those who choose to live far away from jobs, retail, and entertainment.

KW

August 1st, 2012
1:00 am

Can you hear us now? Georgia politicians have not been good stewards of our tax dollars. The vote was about accountability. There will be major road improvement projects, but probably not MARTA expansion. Question? Did Georgia anger about renewing the toll on 400 for a few million dollars in extra revenue cost the state 8 BILLION in new funding?

O4W

August 1st, 2012
1:02 am

@KW: You sound like you’re gleeful that MARTA is getting the shaft.

Tim

August 1st, 2012
1:02 am

After the HOT lane fiasco on I-85 in Gwinnett, and the continuation of the GA. 400 toll, I don’t understand why anyone voted for this T-SPLOST nonsense.

Decatur on Fire

August 1st, 2012
1:02 am

Sameole is economically illiterate….only one penny, eh? Kind of how we got to 7% tax in the first place. By my calculations that 1 cent loon would not pay a thing on a new car purchase in relation to sale tax….

Nicholas J

August 1st, 2012
1:04 am

Well the ball is in Deal, GDOT, and ARC’s court. Maybe its better this way. I’m certain Deal and these agencies will see the need for more mass transit since the senseless, poo for brain suburbanites don’t. I trust Deal, GDOT, and the ARC to make a better, more transit oriented list. I just hope they do it in time before the consequences of not seeming to be able to think coherently as a region catches up to us.

Decatur on Fire

August 1st, 2012
1:04 am

Clean up the crime and general degenerates on MARTA and people might be more inclined to ride it. Every time I take it to the airport I am panhandled by some bum.

Aaron Burr V Mexico

August 1st, 2012
1:05 am

Cruz also won in Texas. Excellent Tea Party! Well enjoy your victory for now, and be assured that the whirlwind you are reaping is coming. Or do you truly believe that you can be ‘victorious’ when liberals and conservative are part of the gene pool and have been from time immemorial?

No, what you are doing is teaching us that Moderates do not reward moderation. What you are doing is teaching us that any tactic is acceptable if you can get away with it. What you are doing is teaching us that targeting the poor in the name of ‘vote integrity’; attacking unions in the name of ’saving the tax payer money’; attacking cities in the name of majority land mass rule; attacking the intelligent in general and then attacking science itself is OK. So when we come for the rich, the rural, the white and the ignorant, be assured, you started it.

You might THINK we started it with FDR but really that was just trying to find a decent living and an equal share of the pie and the ability for people to go to the same restaraunt counter without being harassed. No, you’re the ones that made it personal.

Enjoy that while you can. You’ve just made your nightmares real. The conspiracy theories you’ve invented to chain the ignorant are even now coming to fruition? Think I’m crazy? Well of course you do….

But just think….how many out there have picked up the Communist Manifesto again and said to themselves, “Wow. If the Republicans hate this so much maybe we should take another look…”

How many have seen the tea party elect a man who thinks that states can just ignore laws they don’t like and said to themselves, “Oh? Well then I guess we can do that when we’re in charge.”

How many of them have seen what the tea party did to take control of the Republican party and looked at the pathetic Democrats and said, “Oh. So that’s how you do that.”

Tim

August 1st, 2012
1:05 am

@Vote no Tsplost Well said.

@Iconclast No, the Sierra Club, Tea Party, and NAACP did not set Atlanta back. The panel of 21 leaders blew it with their pork-heavy project list. $600 million for the Beltline? Really? The Beltline will do nothing to relieve congestion, it is a loop of trails and parks. And what about the $700 billion rail line from the Lindbergh Center to Emory? There is already a free shuttle service from Emory to the downtown Decatur Marta station, a few miles away. So they basically already have transit. How could that project be a priority? The Beltline and the Emory rail (just 2 projects) cost over a billion dollars!! The panel who chose these projects should be ashamed of themselves. ALL THE BLAME goes to them.

Mayor Reed, since you decided to become the face of this campaign, you can wipe the egg off it now.

oldfart

August 1st, 2012
1:06 am

Some of you guys need a drink:

The Emory Manhattan

Ingredients:
2 ounces blended whiskey
1 ounce Italian sweet vermouth
2 dashes TSPLOST bitters

Kris

August 1st, 2012
1:09 am

Thank you oldfart…

Jack

August 1st, 2012
1:10 am

@Mark
“Let the roads fall apart and traffic get so bad the legislators either are forced to fund transportation infrastructure and administrate it properly and fairly or get forced out themselves.”

So what you are suggesting is economic suicide? Could you be any more irresponsible and short-sighted?

pm

August 1st, 2012
1:15 am

Voted for it but not happily, and I am not at all sad it dropped like a mattress off a pickup on I20. Too much cash tossed at people who know too well how to waste it, take forever doing any project, and then there are the cronies and cost overruns and unforseen expenses. All of them disappointed is something I can live with. Now it’s Deal’s turn to do something worth re-electing him for. This is GA so chickens have to be involved. Sacraficial or fried, makes no difference.

Cascada

August 1st, 2012
1:15 am

Actually, it failed in the Savannah are (the Coastal Georgia region). The Central Savannah River region includes Augusta. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Savannah_River_Area

Look before I leap...

August 1st, 2012
1:17 am

I am seeing a lot of bitterness from the chicken littleers.

Atlanta will continue to be the economic center of GA and the southeast for decades to come and the thumbs down on TSPLOST will do little to change that. Neither Macon, Columbus or Savannah are poised to take the crown.

If you long for the relatively bucolic commute of Charlotte, NC, try to imagine what would happen if this city, fed by a single interstate, a spur, a freeway and a couple of highways and boulevards were to see annual growth rates of 100,000 ppl? Charlotte is a lovely city, but in terms of business growth, it is little better than a Ponzi scheme.

For rankings on worst traffic/commute, Atlanta ranks anywhere from 3rd to 17th depending
on the measures used. But the measures used all have flaws in them and in the context of traffic problems in all major metropolitan areas, Atlanta’s issues are not unique and while bad, we are better off than than NY, LA, Houston and San Jose no one is forecasting the ultimate decline of those areas.

ND

August 1st, 2012
1:17 am

I voted for it, not because I thought it was a great project list (it wasn’t), but because that was as close as this ideologically, politically, and ethnically fractured region was ever going to get to a workable compromise on this issue. I would have preferred a list that concentrated on four or five major projects (for example, the Beltline, something equivalent to a Northern Arc, a new MARTA line, another north-south freeway within the perimeter) instead of a list comprised of over a hundred small projects.

Ultimately this is a victory for asphalt fetishists like Chip Rogers who would rather pave over the entire state and have everyone live 100 miles away from Atlanta, thereby ensuring that nobody under the age of 35 will ever want to move here, because it’s people like him who are going to get the power to decide how transportation money is spent in this state with the failure of this referendum.

Buckhead

August 1st, 2012
1:18 am

Tonight in Charlotte, Tampa and Dallas civic leaders have popped the champagne.

ND

August 1st, 2012
1:21 am

“And what about the $700 billion rail line from the Lindbergh Center to Emory? There is already a free shuttle service from Emory to the downtown Decatur Marta station, a few miles away. So they basically already have transit. ”

Let’s see… wait 15-20 minutes for a bus that will take you to a MARTA station going at about 10 mph (factoring in stopping at traffic lights), or wait 5-10 minutes for a train that will take you to Decatur or Lindbergh in 5 minutes. Sure, those are exactly the same.

Spoken like someone who has never been stuck in bumper to bumper traffic on the Clifton Corridor.

ND

August 1st, 2012
1:23 am

“Can we get a MARTA station at Turner Field now? How come MARTA does’t go to Turner Field? I’m glad ya’ll voted no. What a total mess this was…”

Turner Field is a 7 minute walk from the Georgia State MARTA station. There are literally dozens of places in Atlanta that need MARTA stations more than Turner Field.

Ray

August 1st, 2012
1:25 am

Tim Lee proved himself to be tone deaf, when he added the Cobb County airport control tower to the T-SPLOST project list. Gwinnett and DeKalb County, each, with their own airports, managed to pay for their own (with matching FAA grants). There was just too much pork on the proposed list of 159 projects. Cobb looked piggy, trying to take advantage of the situation.

The public wanted the focus on breaking up the bottlenecks at major interchanges, adding a modest amount of some badly needed new rail lines, and of course maintaining our transit infrastructure.

CDB

August 1st, 2012
1:26 am

Asking the voters to support something as important as a transportation tax is like asking a 12 year old to decide if school is better than vacation. Both, unfortunately, would make the wrong decision. That is, after all, why we have and need government.

Decatur on Fire

August 1st, 2012
1:27 am

I will continue to work remote…..good luck with the commutes and your pork barrelled politicos………

Look before I leap...

August 1st, 2012
1:28 am

@Buckhead

You should lay off the kool-aid son, it makes you fat and stupid.

You obviously have not driven in Tampa rush hour traffic lately.
And in Dallas, they are used to driving 16 miles to buy a pack of cigarettes.
And see my previous post on Charlotte.

Grow up

August 1st, 2012
1:29 am

And CDB needs someone to look after them and let them know what to do next. Adapt, work around any issues that this perceived solution (which would not occur for 10 years, if ever) may have let you down on.

Uncle Harvey

August 1st, 2012
1:30 am

I might have voted for this without all of the trains, bike paths and walking trails. A train will never drop me off at my house. On top of that, I do not want to ride framed into a train with a bunch of low-lifes. I do not want to pay an extra tax for peoples hobbies. Bikes and walking are hobbies, they are not real transportation for most people.

J Hood

August 1st, 2012
1:30 am

The Govenor and GDOT Need to Focus on Implemeting the Reginonal Rail plan they hae on there Own Site Already and various Others Such as the Excellent Map they have at tracktwentynineblogspot
We Already have the Rails in place and Its a lot cheaper and less time Consumin to get it started…Im sure we can get a far reaching Rail system (not marta) in place for far less money and something we as a whole region can use and benefit from…Commuter Rail IS the Answer…The Only
Answer…Especially now that Funding for the Express buses is in jeopardy becuase of this No Vote…Just imagine putting that many cars back on the Road…Its one step forward…ten steps Back here in Atlanta…

Decatur on Fire

August 1st, 2012
1:31 am

Looks like that woman in the commercials all tied up will continue to be such…..that’s just too bad.

Old South

August 1st, 2012
1:34 am

Leap;

What makes you so sure that Atlanta will continue to attract high paying jobs? It’s not neccesarily about the facts, but the perception which attracts people.

If you read the tea leaves, the state government is telling Georgians expect austerity. I’m not sure anyone with common sense and a choice would want to choose to live in Atlanta. It was not that way in the 90s and 80s.

DawgDad

August 1st, 2012
1:38 am

Keep talking down to us, and see where that gets you. You wanted OUR money to pay for YOUR pet projects YOU weren’t willing to fund yourselves, all the while (and still) denigrating us and saying we’re selfish for expressing concern and opposition. Rarely in my four decades of adult life have I witnessed a more deserving bunch of losers.

I’m good with the Governer focusing scarce resources on a far narrower list of high priority projects. If he goes overboard corrupt he won’t last long.

Aaron Burr V Mexico

August 1st, 2012
1:38 am

Thanks for inviting federal intervention when we get a mayor that isn’t in the Governor’s pocket and when the governor fails…and he WILL fail.

You can get always get crazier on the Republicant side but what you can’t do is actually GOVERN and Deal is about to learn that the hard way. He has no power. He just doesn’t know it yet.

But even if STILL somehow gets all the roads (cause we know he’s not expanding Marta. Hes a Republican and Republicans are stupid), I am still pleased because all the IDIOTS OTP will get fleeced by the guy the elected…again. :D

Red Phillips

August 1st, 2012
1:38 am

I can’t believe how easily some people on here have been catechized by the transportation lobby. An 8% sales tax? Really? That’s more than Florida, and they DON’T HAVE A STATE INCOME TAX. Does the Georgia government really need a higher sales tax than Florida AND a state income tax to function? The Georgia government has plenty of money. They don’t need more. They need to spend what they have wisely. And we the people of Georgia don’t need sheep voting a tax increase on themselves and everyone else. It’s really quite pathetic. Instead of your wordy rants, why not save time and bandwidth and just type Baa, Baa, Baa …

Tim

August 1st, 2012
1:39 am

“Let’s see… wait 15-20 minutes for a bus that will take you to a MARTA station going at about 10 mph (factoring in stopping at traffic lights), or wait 5-10 minutes for a train that will take you to Decatur or Lindbergh in 5 minutes. Sure, those are exactly the same.

Spoken like someone who has never been stuck in bumper to bumper traffic on the Clifton Corridor.”

You will have to wait for the MARTA train to arrive, so waiting for the shuttle is no big deal. You are talking as if the shuttle ride is 20 miles. The Decatur Marta station is only a few miles away from Emory. Why don’t you come back and explain why it would be worth $700 MILLION for another rail line when Emory is literally around the corner from the Decatur Marta station. Tell me how that project made the list, when people down I-20 east have been paying for MARTA for 40 years, and yet have NO RAIL. How did the Emory project leapfrog them? Because the T-SPLOST was a stinking pile of pork, that’s why.

Aaron Burr V Mexico

August 1st, 2012
1:41 am

And yet many in that I-20 corridor voted for Kasim Reed. Makes me wonder if they’ll be voting for him again.

If his opponent is white, you betcha. When you’re a cartoon character, black or white, you will get exploited, just like Kasim Reed has done with Atlanta.

Tim

August 1st, 2012
1:50 am

I think Kasim Reed will pay for this. He showed that he really could care less about his constituents in Atlanta that have been paying the MARTA tax since the 70’s. He actually pushed for them to pay a 2% transportation tax, which would have boosted the sales tax in the city of Atlanta to 9%!! He ignored many of his constituents by advocating for this tax, and there will be repercussions.

Alex

August 1st, 2012
1:51 am

Um, Aaron, much of that I-20 corridor isn’t even in the city of Atlanta….it’s Dekalb. Try again.

Look before I leap...

August 1st, 2012
1:51 am

@Old South

Atlanta is THE transportation hub in the south.
Atlanta has the world’s busiest airport.
Atlanta is the confluence of 3 of three major interstates.
Atlanta is the rail center of the southeast.

With a gross domestic product of US$270 billion, Atlanta’s economy ranks 15th among world cities and sixth in the nation.
We are not tied to any single industry and as the seat of GA’s state government, Atlanta will more or less always be in line for government largesse.

Traffic problems notwithstanding, Atlanta ain’t taking a dumpster dive any time soon.

Dean

August 1st, 2012
1:52 am

Can the Atlanta region at least step into the 20th century? Not even asking for 21st century progress. If most of the backwards thinking Georgians believe enjoying traffic congestion and poor air quality is preferable to a one penny tax. And that the best way to fund the education of the state’s children is through lotteries and slot machines, Atlanta is doomed for failure.

And when Atlanta becomes like the lost city of Atlantis, so goes the State of Georgia. You better hope the high-speed rail from Jacksonville to Charlotte at least slows down in Atlanta.

Kris

August 1st, 2012
1:55 am

Deal needs to be held accountable for actions like these that cost the state Federal Dollars

Did Not the Governor of Georgia (thief) turn down the High speed RAIL funds championed by President OBAMA?
Did Not the Governor of Georgia (in title only) sit on Millions of Federal HIGHWAY FUNDS for years,
Just because “JIMBOB” Could not get their act together and provide enough payola to the right GOP crooks.

Where were all of them and the Corporate Masters on the issue of DISPERSION of all of and REFUSED funds?
Maybe, If someone had the FORESIGHT and The Wisdom, to accept those funds.

Oh Hell Impeach the idiot..

Look before I leap...

August 1st, 2012
1:58 am

For all the ups and downs over the years and even during the recession, my stock portfolio has done pretty well.

I do have two regrets though:
Not buying stock in Apple at $19/share
Not having a stronger position in Kraft Foods, the maker of Kool-Aid.

Outlander

August 1st, 2012
1:59 am

as bad as things seem, from what I read about that bill, all it would have done was lined peoples pockets and not solved the problem.

.. at least you aren’t Detroit.

Look before I leap...

August 1st, 2012
2:11 am

I have been looking for an analogy regarding TSPLOST for months.

My wife just suggested this:

A man wandering in the desert, thirsty and near death, comes over a dune and sees an oasis. He fights fatigue and wind and shifting sands to get to the oasis. Delirious, he crawls into the palm studded garden, fixated on the vision of cool, clear drinking water. A lovely bare-breasted maiden in a short skirt hands him a crystal goblet to use to scoop the water out of the pool.
As he is about to gulp the life-saving water, the oasis and its water disappears, yet the crystal goblet remains in his hand.

Bubba dodd

August 1st, 2012
2:11 am

Look…Marta could be fixed and so could the rest of the transit problems in Georgia if the administrators of the projects could be trusted to grant contracts in the best intrests of all Georgians. However, when racial and good old boy contracts are granted the cost for services rendered increases dramatically. Voters don’t trust any proposals by Marta due to their slanted agenda and resolve to prepeturate ineffective/inflated contracts. Past history of racial bantering and lack of voter trust of effective Government spending of tax dollars killed the TSPLOSH

ND

August 1st, 2012
2:26 am

” Why don’t you come back and explain why it would be worth $700 MILLION for another rail line when Emory is literally around the corner from the Decatur Marta station. Tell me how that project made the list, when people down I-20 east have been paying for MARTA for 40 years, and yet have NO RAIL.”

Like I said, I wasn’t enamored with the list of projects, and the South Dekalb rail line definitely should have had priority over Emory. Just don’t tell me that a bus that shares the road with cars is the same as a train that doesn’t. It’s not even close to the same thing. The less buses we have on the roads, the better, assuming those passengers have rail as a viable alternative.

[...] like the Atlanta Regional Commission. But mostly in the hands of the governor. Read more on Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) This entry was posted in Uncategorized and tagged Built, Latest, News, Vacuum by admin. Bookmark [...]

Tim

August 1st, 2012
3:30 am

“Like I said, I wasn’t enamored with the list of projects, and the South Dekalb rail line definitely should have had priority over Emory. Just don’t tell me that a bus that shares the road with cars is the same as a train that doesn’t. It’s not even close to the same thing. The less buses we have on the roads, the better, assuming those passengers have rail as a viable alternative.”

I’m not saying it’s the same thing. But since Emory/CDC has a free shuttle to the Decatur Marta Station (a short distance which you for some reason act as if the shuttle will be clogging roads traveling 30 miles away), there is simply no way to justify prioritizing a $700 million rail line in that area since they already have a MARTA station nearby. Not when there are other areas in Dekalb starved for transit- like near Stonecrest Mall in Lithonia. A lot of the T-SPLOST supporters act as if everyone who voted it down are against transportation solutions. That’s simply not true. The blame lies in the gang of 21 that chose these projects.

Seriously, the T-SPLOST failed in all 10 counties. If it couldn’t pass in Clayton, Dekalb, and Fulton, shouldn’t the people who chose the project list deserve the blame? People in south Dekalb support transportation alternatives. But they are not fools. The fact that these legislators tried to force them to pay a 2% transportation tax- and they would still get no rail- is unbelievably inconsiderate. People are not going to be stepped on like that, and it’s probably the main reason it didn’t pass in Dekalb. The Emory rail line was just one of the wasteful projects, the T-SPLOST was filled with much more pork. Do I even need to mention the $3 million Cobb County airport control tower?

Electric Roads

August 1st, 2012
3:40 am

Enter your comments here

Electric Roads

August 1st, 2012
3:55 am

Seems to me that we are going to have to go way back, before the drawing board, to see if we can agree on the basic meanings of the words we use. Will a majority of folks in this state ever accept the idea that even though roads might be socialism… socialism is sometimes OK? Then… might that concept ever be extended to other forms of transportation too? We have a fundamental disconnect between the rhetoric that is being used, the concepts people believe, and the reality we all face everyday.

alex bacardi

August 1st, 2012
3:57 am

The elephant in the room….BUILD THE OUTER PERIMETER…. that will address traffic on all of Atlanta’s interstates….should have been done 30 years ago…however the morons in Fulton County goverment built in the OP right away in North Fulton for the sake of property tax revenue and screwed the entire region…expensive yes….MEANINGFUL? ABSOLUTELY! Take care of the big stuff first and the smaller stuff gets better. I could support a penny increase in the sales tax for a transportation AND a penny increase increase in the fuel tax but not for the low impact projects that were proposed for Metro Atlanta. This was just a funding vehicle and NOT any significant action to reduce traffic and people saw that clearly and voted in down by signficant majority…what gets 63% approval these days…another tax scheme to fund improvements that will not substantially improve.

Tubby

August 1st, 2012
4:32 am

Whose idea was it to merge 6 lanes into 3 on 285 eastbound at spaghetti junction? Umm Spaghetti
What about an exit at Chamblee Dunwoody westbound? Chili dog (gulp)
What about widening Ashford Dunwoody from Clairmont to 285? Cheeseburger (whew)
What about a Marta line from Indian Creek to Dunwoody Station? Pizza (whoa)
What about widening 400 to Hwy 20? Egg Roll (yum)
Widen 575 to Sixes Rd. from 75. Jellybeans
Eliminate traffic lights on 78 with access roads. Ice Cream
Stop holding the traffic lights on side streets that just bottle-up traffic and wastes gas. (or is that intentional) Cake
And finally, Still think the outer loop would have helped. Ooo, fruit loops
Chew on that!

Soon-to-be former Atlantan

August 1st, 2012
4:48 am

So Augusta and Columbus managed to pass it in their regions? My guess is that they focused mainly on roads and that these regions have been historically under-invested in the infrastructure department. I have a feeling that if a similar thing happened here in Alabama, the Huntsville/Decatur region would pass such a tax for similar reasons.

The TSPLOST failure isn’t what’s going to cause Atlanta’s growth to slow. The way I see it, Atlanta’s growth was already plateauing this decade with stagnant per capita income and a whole host of other economic issues being symptoms of underlying structural problems. The TSPLOST was a chance to perhaps re-start the engine, but Atlanta is heading for slower growth in the coming decades. Houston and Dallas (I mention them because they’re Atlanta’s closest peers) were quite smart to work with developers over the past few decades to preserve rights of way for new freeways and tollways. As a result, they have the needed bones to continue growing and I suspect these two metros will continue to see growth of 1 million, possibly even 2 million a decade (that’s Los Angeles-level growth right there).

Larry

August 1st, 2012
5:02 am

My Blood Boils every time I travel down I-85 and see those $60,000,000 “HOT LANES! Sit in traffic in the Right side Lanes while essentially NO ONE uses the “HOT LANES” What kind of Government Steals Road Lanes from the Tax Paying Public and tries to sell access to the Highest Bidder? And why wasn’t $60,000,000 spent on something useful? This Government has just gone NUTS!!!

Bruce

August 1st, 2012
5:57 am

There is a simple solution to a number of the traffic challenges. Relocate jobs (private and public) outside the immediate Atlanta area. There are a number of counties that would benefit from the job growth.
All levels of government has demonstrated they are not financially respondsible with the tax payers money.

overtaxed

August 1st, 2012
6:03 am

Wow

So deal is going to use funds we already have? what a concept!

Gasoline Tax, ad-valorem (being replaced by 1 time sales tax on vehicles), tag tax, trailer tag tax, ga400 tolls, i85 tolls, property tax, state income tax, marriage tax, 7% fulton county sales tax

the above should cover a lot!

Vote No on corrupt TSPLOST

August 1st, 2012
6:14 am

Hopefully, this fiasco has severly damaged Deal’s re-election chances

Roger

August 1st, 2012
6:39 am

Now we will have a situation similar to Florida: a toll at each corner, so we will pay more. In Florida a penny tax for transportation was rejected and later the solution at thr problem was a lot of tolls.

Calliope

August 1st, 2012
6:39 am

Appearently, I am not the only one who voted “No”… Now take these 24 months revamp the plan, and more importantly show the citizens of GA that their government can operate effectively, and ethically. Then citizens like little ol me (who agree that transportation infrastructure is needed) will be willing to pay for the improvements. The “No” vote is not about anti-progression, its about trusting our civic leaders with our tax dollars to do what they say they are going to do… and not rewarding their golf buddies with huge contracts. I believe the people have spoken… BTW I am a Democrat.. so its just not Republican’s who want government accountability… And I will NOT be voting for Kasim Reed again… I see from this TSPLOST issue, he is part of the problem as well.

Tedd

August 1st, 2012
6:46 am

I hope everything is not built with tolls but I think that will be a major funding source. Property taxes will likely rise too. I am not sure the outcome will please as many as voted NO.

findog

August 1st, 2012
6:49 am

Jim,
One does not, “step into a vacuum,” one is sucked into it. The governor was just getting to plan B? Really!? TSPLOST was never a plan, “to fix,” it was a Band-Aid to cover the horrible truth that Georgia has no long term plan for transportation. The governor hand picking the projects is how we ended up with our scarce resources going to Sonny’s route 3 instead of 400.
He doesn’t need to ask transportation planners for a list of anything, it already exists.
We have Level of Service statistics, current and future, for nearly every square inch of asphalt in Georgia; fix all the LOS F now and future LOS F as funds are available. Cherry picking projects to drive economic outcomes should not be a republican’s plan for anything, if they really mean what is in their own platforms…

Ol' Timer

August 1st, 2012
6:51 am

“First, get all the facts, then you can distort them as you please.” ~ Mark Twain

Traffic in Atlanta is deplorable and will get worse. Spending time sitting in gridlock is expensive and the stress unhealthy — wasted time that could be spent with family and friends.

As my ol’ mother used to say, “You cut off your nose to spite your face” by rejecting the one percent to pay for transportation improvement, but you did show ‘em! And, that seems to be the goal.

Show ‘em who’s boss. Kick ‘em in the groin. But your tired arse is still sitting in gridlock wasting $3.49 a gallon gasoline, sucking in exhaust fumes and fuming! Good move, Xlax!

ze

August 1st, 2012
6:57 am

Until MARTA is dismantled and de-unionized, no funding will pass. It’s a badly run organization.

Increase unemployment

August 1st, 2012
6:57 am

Reelect Obama, unemployment will rise and traffic will decrease.

carol

August 1st, 2012
7:05 am

Well, I wonder what Kasim has to say about that after his kindergarten response to John Evans last week. Boo, to you, Kasim. Aren’t you glad all adults don’t act as if they are 5 years old?

Marko

August 1st, 2012
7:06 am

How about a transportation plan WITHOUT the stupid Beltine boondogle included? i don’t think anyone other than Reed and the developers want the Atlanta Beltline.

LilstevieM

August 1st, 2012
7:10 am

hmmm so the state will choose to fund two or three major projects, road maintenance will suffer…more tolls and HOT lanes are coming.. Hope you all are happy. While I agree there was too much transit on the list, ITP is growing…there will be more density and a need for transit options. Transit take years to fund and build out…so we will fall further behind there.

Denver, Dallas, and Charlotte and laughing now..they are several years into their improvement programs…guess the next Caterpillar Equip. will locate in one of those cities.

Tolls….just think in 10 years we will be just like Orlando or NJ…every other road a toll. Y’all enjoy that.

P B Orr

August 1st, 2012
7:12 am

Welcome to Birmingham, oh ye wingnut me-party regressives!!

P B Orr

August 1st, 2012
7:16 am

Clearly, Atlanta and its modern citizens needs to divorce itself from the region and basically stick it to them if they come into our city to do so much as buy a stick of gum. And tax the living s___ out of them if they work in the city. Our fate should not be determined by a pack of racist kool-aid slurping neanderthals with no vision and no common sense. Let them stay in their ticky-tacky OTP slums.

LilstevieM

August 1st, 2012
7:16 am

oh forgot to add hope all the local govts (counties and municipalities) enjoy the extra 20% match they now get to pay GDOT for local assistance programs…so your local roads will suffer too.

Chris

August 1st, 2012
7:17 am

So Jim, on a personal note, how do you and others at the AJC feel about that $250K that Cox communications spent on promoting the failed TSPLOST?

That money would have paid for some nice bonuses or a pretty swank Christmas party. You could have had the Stones or maybe the Who play for that kind of dough.

Now it’s all wasted … must be frustrating.

me

August 1st, 2012
7:18 am

So, Mr Galloway, what you’re saying is the anti-tyrannists in the tea party have just handed complete and unchecked control over transportation to the governor?

Good grief! Has history ever recorded a people more incapable of acting in their own best interests?

Chasbo

August 1st, 2012
7:19 am

Let”s see. 52% of the money going to 3.6% of commuters. And people complain it failed? In San Francisco during rush hour cops at intersections stop traffic to wave buses through. Makes for a really fast bus commute to a central transfer station downtown and connects with BART. Cheap and efficient and overnight to implement. Buses are full, compared with here. I think blogs should be coming out with better ideas than wasting time spewing venom.

Nativebird

August 1st, 2012
7:20 am

What a joke this city is. Pure lack of leadership over 30 years is what has led to the gridlock we call metro Atlanta. A city where the transit rail doesn’t even go to its baseball stadium. That says it all. Better start telecommuting…..because no job is worth wasting 4 hours of each of your days sitting in a car doing nothing. As a 49 yr old native Atlantan….I’m sick of it. This camel straw finally has me actively looking to relocate permanently out of state….to a metro community that has a clue in how to enrich its citizens lives and serve the community. So long, have a nice life sitting in a car folks.

Tiberius

August 1st, 2012
7:22 am

I haven’t heard this much whining since my 4 year-old wanted an ice cream cone.

Told her to suck it up and move on, too.

JT

August 1st, 2012
7:23 am

Now let’s vote on the Obama Care tax.

Don

August 1st, 2012
7:24 am

“Welcome to Birmingham”? More like “Welcome to the new Detroit.”

Of course, on the bright side, Detroit does have lessening traffic congestion.

Chris

August 1st, 2012
7:25 am

To all you whiners complaining about the TSPLOST: why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and reserve a UHaul and move out of here. I here that Charlotte and Dallas are much sexier and those neanderthals in the tea party, Sierra Club and NAACP types don’t ruin the party.

It will do more to help traffic around here than the TSPLOST ever could have.

Don

August 1st, 2012
7:26 am

Chasbo @7:19

You obviously have not ridden GRTA Xpress, GCT or CCT express buses. They run mostly full. Of course, there’s no funding in place to keep them going now.

Charles

August 1st, 2012
7:27 am

Can you imagine how many potholes could have been fixed with all the TSPLOST campaign money given the local media?

Bill

August 1st, 2012
7:28 am

The only thing that suprised me about this was that 37% of the people voted for this s**t.
I know that this state isn’t a repository for critical thinkers, but can we have those 37% expelled?

No Taxes

August 1st, 2012
7:28 am

Splat goes the tax, like a bug on the windshield! I like this democracy thing, lets vote on some more stuff, like cutting the state income tax to 1%, eliminating the property tax entirely, and firing 80% of the government workers! Make it so…….

Don

August 1st, 2012
7:30 am

overtaxed @6:03

The I-85 tolls fall several million dollars short of covering the operating costs of the HOT lanes. That’s right. The HOT lanes are LOSING MONEY. The HOT lanes users are being subsidized.

No Taxes

August 1st, 2012
7:31 am

Don, raise fares to cover the full cost of public transportation, why should I subsidize someone else’s commute?

ron

August 1st, 2012
7:34 am

Who takes the blame when a bridge collapses or every day when you’re sitting in traffic for 2 hours? Tea party and republicans. This marks the end of metro Atlanta’s job growth. It’s time to move out of GA, to do that I’ll need to stop paying my mortgage so I can let my house go into foreclosure. Thanks tea party…..

No Taxes

August 1st, 2012
7:34 am

Nativebird, good riddance, and take Chris with you, we don’t him or his kind here!

Bubber in Decatur

August 1st, 2012
7:34 am

So, the bozos who lobby for the Georgia Sierra Club who convinced their hordes of members statewide to vote against TSPLOST so we could get more mass transit have won. And they did it by combining in their efforts with the Tea Party! Well, let’s just see how many transit projects are put forward as a result of their “success.” What fools!!!! Thanks, you idiots.

No Taxes

August 1st, 2012
7:36 am

ron, Georgia is a full recourse state, if you default on your mortgage, you better not have any other assets, or the creditors can go after them, and they will. Defaulters are crooks, treat them as such……

jezel

August 1st, 2012
7:38 am

We should be able to trust our leaders and vote on their recommendations. So the failure of TSPLOST…is that because we do not trust our leaders to do what they say they will do? or …is the failure because we do not like the plan?

American

August 1st, 2012
7:42 am

It is obvious to me that Republicans have gotten what they have preached…NO NEW TAXES…as POGO said, “We have met the enemy and he is us.” The fact of the matter is we DO need to raise the gasoline tax for any number of reasons. It is a responsible course of action. And, when our leadership starts acting responsibly, we can look toward a better future.

jconservative

August 1st, 2012
7:47 am

The obvious answer is raising the gasoline tax a few pennies.

T-SPLAT

August 1st, 2012
7:49 am

Raise the gas tax by a nickle. Call it a user fee (which is what it is) and move on. Really, how hard is this? Everybody knows we need better roads. Let’s let those who use them most pay for it.

Marcos

August 1st, 2012
7:49 am

there were too many projects that did not help traffic. Also the basis for desiring a new tax was faulty since gas price have been high and the state has made money. The political elite has to stop thinking about increasing taxes and work on lowering the cost of projects that are necessary and eliminating those that are not. Nice to have have no place in this time of low economic activity. The people have spoken and they want less government.

Old School Girl

August 1st, 2012
7:56 am

Well, well, well, we are back to square one. The t-splost did not address congestion, just payola to the road construction companies. Invest in mass transit is the only way to deal with the growing population. Adding more roads in Atlanta does not address the congestion, and people saw it for what is was, cronyism. By the way, Deal already knows who will get paid under the table on this second round, and guess what, we the citizens will be screwed. So now, you die hard Republicans…how do you like your leadership now? The state representives didn’t do their job, Purdue outright stole money from you, and Deal isn’t any better, and turned down Federal money on principle. My mom always told me, too much of any party in control, is NEVER a good idea, you want reasonable balance leaders. We here in Georgia will be screwed for many years to come. Thank goodness I am out of here in six, and yes, I know Delta is ready when I am.

Jason

August 1st, 2012
8:01 am

Seen on reddit and the best explanation I’ve seen for TSPLOST’s failure:

“Dear politicians: You can’t spend decade after decade pitting city versus suburb and then suddenly expect them to vote for each other’s interests. You’re reaping the hate that you’ve sowed.

Dear business leaders: You can’t spend decade after decade screaming that all taxes are evil and then expect people to change their minds in a couple of months after you’ve decided “well, this one tax is ok”. The karma police have come around and slapped on the handcuffs. You’re going to have to spend a lot more time undoing what you’ve spent decades doing.”

Tiberius

August 1st, 2012
8:01 am

“how do you like your leadership now?”

I like it better than the alternative.

Which isn’t saying much. :D

Marko

August 1st, 2012
8:02 am

Face it, there aren’t enough “tea party” people to cause this to fail, so blaming the tea party is silly because many more than tea party members voted against this. It failed because it was a bad idea. The idea of taxes to fix transportation wasn’t a bad idea but this list of projects stunk like the bureaucrats that selected them.

I knew there were problems when one of the supporters on WSB 750 (forget who was talking and I am paraphrasing) said something to the effect of even if it’s a bad list you need to vote for it because this may be the only chance. With supporters like that, who needed tea party opposition?

JJCherokee

August 1st, 2012
8:03 am

The first step in Ga Transportation improvement is cleaning house at the GDOT, by every measure it is awful. The second step is to rededicate the gasoline tax to GDOT so they will have a funding for projects needed. The legislature now uses the gas tax to fund every boondogle, fiasco, social program they can dream up. The last step is to make the Governor responsible for transportation because the GDOT is not elected and will never be responsible to the taxpayers.

We will see if Governor Deal has the wherewithall to attack this transportation monster, kill it and rebuild it into something that will improve transportation for all of Georgia.

TDY

August 1st, 2012
8:04 am

If you’re looking for a “modern city” that’s built around mass transit, you can always move.
Infact, please do…

formula for failure

August 1st, 2012
8:08 am

This was doomed from the start. Politicos take note: First, there must be trust built between you and the populace…having arrogant and ethically challenged department heads like Gina Evans, and the Ga 400 toll lies and the screwing Gwinnett took over the Lexus lane conversions with no added capacity have not been forgotten. Any plan must clearly add capacity to the roads…mass transit will never be the solution outside the perimeter. We need roads, not bike trails and streetcars to nowhere. There must be someone who can be held accountable for the projects…who gets their feet held to the fire for the completion of this mess? Give us a name. There must be timetables for completion of these projects, not some vagary that they “just need to be STARTED within 10 years”….and transparency- we all know that the politicians and contractor buddies will be the ones who profit off the backs of our 16 to 20% sales tax increase that will never go away. There was was just too much potential for corruption and failure at our expense here….try again with something that makes sense!

Native Atlantan

August 1st, 2012
8:10 am

There is more than one city in this state. Atlanta is not going to go under like so many believe. That’s unless Atlanta residents get real and address the true issue. Why should any business move here when the city of Atlanta can’t even protect the students at GT and GSU. I think that is what the companies see, not traffic. There is plenty of the State to go around. The mayor of the ATL got served, Macon has plenty of room for new businesses. Macon has two major highways, railways, and even an airport. WTF people? It’s the State of Georgia not the State of Atlanta. With Savannah growing like it is, and Tifton as well, why not improve Macon? The airport can be upgraded to handle domestic flights, the highways lead to Savannah, Florida and even out west. And believe it or not I-75 leads to the ATL. The once proposed rail line between Macon, Atlanta and Chattanooga doesn’t look so bad now.

Hayek

August 1st, 2012
8:13 am

Metro Atlanta missed its opportunity back in the 1970’s and 80’s. Perceived or real incompentence by the City of Atlanta resulted in mass exodus to the suburbs and surrounding cities. As a result, for the past 20 years you have countless companies either move to or appear in these suburbs/smaller cities because the schools were better, land was cheap, everyone could afford a large detached single-family home, and traffic was minimial. Afterall, why else would people be willing to endure 50 mile/day commutes?

Live/Work areas are a nice idea but impractical in our climate with our heat and humidity and lets not forget that people love their detached single family homes.

The TSPLOST plan should’ve included a provision giving companies an incentive to move their locations near current or proposed Marta lines.

I voted against TSPLOST because it lacked vision and was more intent on entrenching the current way we have chosen to live (In suburbs, commuting across county lines for work).

On a side note I was disappointed that the plan did not address traffic congestion between Ga 400/I85 southbound to I-75 North.

Brian Miller

August 1st, 2012
8:13 am

Can’t wait to see the one cent increase in gas taxes.

WTF

August 1st, 2012
8:14 am

You just don’t get it. The days of tax and spend are OVER! This is true for GA, true for the USA. The electorate has awakened and ‘just said NO’ to the payoff for votes the Dems rely on, the crony capitalists (and socialists, too). The mid-terms of 2010 were not an aberration. Unless accompanied by a 3 to 1 spending cut ratio to ANY new taxes, no deal.
The world is now ruled by efficiency and productivity (see China, Indonesia, et al). This means ‘no’ to cradle-to-grave union deals, ‘no’ to wasteful and inefficient governance (by both parties), ‘no’ to rewarding sloth and indolence with ‘voting rights’ and welfare payments alone. ‘YES’ to a moral certainty that time-proven remedies of hard, smart work is best – for the private sector and the government.
Now, let’s get to it!

Chris Sanchez

August 1st, 2012
8:17 am

Oh the wailing and gnashing of teeth! Oh how those who wisely voted against T-SPLOST have “damaged” the region. And on and on. Strip out the economic development garbage, focus on a tight project list that actually addresses traffic congestion and will be completed within the ten years a tax would be collected and you’d be surprised at the support such a plan would receive. But no…your representatives insisted on packing the pork into the project list and dedicating over half of the funds to economic development instead of relieving traffic congestion.

You have no one to blame for the failure but yourselves. Many people would have supported such a plan had it been offered. Mayor Kasim Reed wants to know why people do not trust their government to address big problems. The answer is simple: you developed a funding vehicle for a solution that did not address the problem for which it was created.

Cutty

August 1st, 2012
8:20 am

Plan B: Jet packs and flying cars.

legionaire

August 1st, 2012
8:23 am

T-Splosh was bound to fail because it was no more than a jobs program and the average taxpayer was not willing to throw good money after bad. MARTA had a horrible track record and I personally did not want to give a dime to MARTA until major changes are made in management. The average taxpayer and commuter understood that this was a slush fund for State politicians, developers, union labor, and companies that would be making bids. We did not want a new tax that would not accomplish anything to help the interest of the people.

Michael

August 1st, 2012
8:24 am

Georgia is the 49th state in spending on transportation…..we are shooting ourselves in the foot by not passing the T-SPLOT. We don’t all the nay sayers come up with an idea or plan then!

The Truth

August 1st, 2012
8:28 am

It’s “Plan C” for me…leave Atlanta. Traffic is worse than awful, and the powers that be haven’t made one ounce of constructive effort to alleviate the problem. Oh, and a huge GFY to the residents of Cobb County for their continual blocking of extending the Marta rail northward.

Heady

August 1st, 2012
8:32 am

Now that the TSPLOST is dead, we can all get back to bitching about how bad traffic is.

Jive Bus System

August 1st, 2012
8:34 am

I have a challenge for the supporters. Prove to me MARTA can improve. It is a simple challenge for such a small rail system. Run the trains on a schedule. A to the minute schedule. No delays no excuses. I want to know that when I get there at 10:06 the train will arrive at 10:07 if that is what time it is supposed to get there. Pretty simple. Seems to work everyday in Japan and Singapore. We are not India with power issues. A simple schedule. If the trains fail to meet it, FIRE someone at MARTA! It is not a jobs program for the city. It is a transit system. If the people there can’t run a schedule hire someone who can. You do this one small improvement and you may gain some trust. It is something you can sell.

Henry Stamm

August 1st, 2012
8:34 am

The con is up.
The people have spoken and the tax and spend politicians have lost again in an open election even if it was just a primary.
Now these guys are planning again to con us in a special election to rip us off.

Shine

August 1st, 2012
8:34 am

Take back the corporate welfare and fund transportation. Start with making delta airlines pay fuel taxes like we all have do. Make all deadbeat corps pay the same energy taxes we all do. UNDO the kooky corporate welfare these kooks passed and signed into law last year!

Frustrated Atlanta Citizen

August 1st, 2012
8:35 am

I have lived in this city for 20 years and over that time I have been proud to be an Atlanta citizen. I have seen this city grow and prosper but I think the failure of TSPLOST will bring an end to the growth. Maybe that is what the leaders out in the burbs wanted. I have always understood people’s pessimism and lack of trust of the government but in what world do you think a private entity will step up and take these projects on?? There will always be cronyism but if you think for a second that there is no cronyism in the private sector, you are highly mistaken. I am a Republican, a capitalist, but I am also a realist. I don’t see us getting out of this mess anytime soon so all of you who drive more than 15 miles to work everyday, get ready to spend a lot more time listening to your favorite radio shows and a lot less time with your family.

Jive Bus System

August 1st, 2012
8:36 am

The Truth – Good bye, You will not be missed. Exactly which major city do you plan on moving to that does not have a traffic transit issue?

Brian

August 1st, 2012
8:37 am

I find it funny that the people saying that because we are not going to put all this money into MARTA and rail, Dallas and Charlotte are going to overtake Atlanta. Do you realize that Dallas and Charlotte have little to no rail transit? Maybe they realize that spending 52% of the money for 3% of the commuters is not the best allocation of resources.

Pompous Pontificator

August 1st, 2012
8:37 am

Jack

August 1st, 2012
12:41 am
Well done Tea Party and anti-tax NIMBY’s (aka, Not In My Back Yard’ers). You got what you wished for. Don’t even think about complaining about that traffic jam you will inevitably sit in tomorrow morning on 400.
***********************************************************************
Wow, I had no idea that traffic jams would go away overnight! Maybe I should’ve voted Yes on TSPLOST. NOT!!!

Ga Values VOTE NO FOR WASTE, GRAFT & CORRUPTION

August 1st, 2012
8:38 am

Guess which way I voted…..

I would really like to vote for a plan “B”, these are a few things that I think would help it pass.

1. Focus completely on reducing congestion, no beltline or airport improvements.

2. A major shake up on the management of MARTA. NO ONE TRUST THE PEOPLE THERE NOW.

3. Pull the Atlanta airport contracts from the millionaire “disadvantaged” contractors. The Feds say Reed was wrong but he won’t change because these multimillionaires are the Maynard Jackson Family & his other corrupt cronies.

3 We need the entire GDOT Board to resign & be replaced by men who are interested in Georgia not running a road through their property.

4. Since the Shady Deal is all we have I am willing to give him a chance, I hope the Feds are watching over both Deal & Reed, if they start being honest they need a Bill Campbell vacation.

5. We need real ethics legislation in Georgia. 87% of voters voted for the $100.00 cap will our legislature listen?

My next post will be under the name of only “Ga Values”

zeke

August 1st, 2012
8:38 am

good that the people spoke on limiting gifts….doubt corrupt pols will heed their instructions

Fartavious

August 1st, 2012
8:39 am

Governor Deal, are your listening?

FrankLeeDarling

August 1st, 2012
8:39 am

Oh well looks like the freeloading I’m not going to pay for anything teabillies
Have screwed us

Fartavious

August 1st, 2012
8:40 am

Ga Values VOTE NO FOR WASTE, GRAFT & CORRUPTION

August 1st, 2012
8:42 am

“4. Since the Shady Deal is all we have I am willing to give him a chance, I hope the Feds are watching over both Deal & Reed, if they start being honest they need a Bill Campbell vacation.”

Should be:

4. Since the Shady Deal is all we have I am willing to give him a chance, I hope the Feds are watching over both Deal & Reed, if they don’t start being honest they need a Bill Campbell vacation

Gary

August 1st, 2012
8:46 am

It is now time for the State to take over the operation of MARTA. For too many years the public’s money has been wasted by these incompetent fools. If the State owned the line, they could expand anywhere they wanted to without county approval and maybe they would stop spending millions to build one-of-a-kind, stations when all that is needed is a simple shelter. People seem to think expansion will bring an “undesirable” element to their area. Look around, it’s already there. How is it that every other large city has Mass transit and the metro area here does not. Time to wake up and move forward.

Ga Values

August 1st, 2012
8:46 am

The 67% NO & 37% YES need to work together to cut Waste, Graft & Corruption.

John Adivari

August 1st, 2012
8:48 am

The Voters simply said No More Taxes Period! Live within your means as we do! The state has:
1. Personal Income tax.
2. Gasoline tax.
3. Ad Valorem tax.
4. Property tax.
5. Sales tax.

When will these Blood Suckers ever be satisfied? Sure we would like new roads, and pot holes fixed. We would also like a few dollars left in our pockets for food, gas, a house payment, and maybe a car repair to drive on them.

Did you hear the Voters……..No more TAXES!

Jive Bus System

August 1st, 2012
8:48 am

You all keep talking about jobs. That is one of the main problems with these project is they are more about have 10 people standing on a street corner holding a shovel than actually getting wirk done. The projects grind traffic to stop when they are being performed and they are done as slowly as psossible to keep people on payroles for as long as possible. If completion times with penalties for failures and rewards for early completion were a part of any governement contract things could get done faster. Instead we all sit a wonder why so many people need to stand around doing nothing while one guy actually works on the project. It just shouldn’t take months to complete the project, but that is what labor wants. It is all about building in hours.

Wutehvah

August 1st, 2012
8:49 am

If all the dolts that drive their kids to school would use the buses that are already paid for, then that would help many surface streets. Sure there are exceptions, but the majority of those ‘car riders’ could be riding the bus.

Jive Bus System

August 1st, 2012
8:54 am

Maybe Atlanta is just a little smarter than some of the other “big cities” the liberals what us to model. I am pretty sure ‘the big dig’ could not be described as a success. Boston might as well have been shoveling cash right into the bay the way money was being wasted. We are not asking Atlanta to do more with less. We are asking them to do less with less. Stop wasting our money.

James

August 1st, 2012
8:54 am

Let’s see..having politicians work hard to find the funds that are necessary to ease congestion and help the traffic situation instead of throwing OUR money at the problem. Why don’t we start with their salaries. If they said they worked hard at looking for at alternatives for funds tell them to work harder…if they say they have looked over every possible solution …well then tell them to look harder. Eight million dollars for the campaign…all down the drain.

P B Orr

August 1st, 2012
8:54 am

@Hayek 8:13 “Metro Atlanta missed its opportunity back in the 1970’s and 80’s. Perceived or real incompentence by the City of Atlanta resulted in mass exodus to the suburbs and surrounding cities.”

This is complete nonsense. I was there. People fled to the burbs to escape from black people. Then they fled to the deeper burbs to escape from black people. Basically, the entire behavior of the large majority of whites in Atlanta (and to be fair everywhere) is predicated on avoiding black people. MARTA to Cobb was voted down because that would provide a way for black people to cross the Hooch.

If you want to see the future of Atlanta, look at Detroit, the doughnut city – rich burbs surrounding a core of nothingness and poverty. Is that what you me-partiers want?

If some of you would just once come into the city and scout around, you would perhaps discover that infinite economic opportunities that would be brought by the Beltline rail have just been voted down. There is an enormous swath of undeveloped land just south of the city that would have been connected to Va-Highlands, Inman Park, Atlantic station, and downtown. It would have been the envy of the country. Nope, can’t have that, “that’s just for black people”.

Racism and militarism are the death of democracy and quality of life. Enjoy life in your suburban hell!

Brian

August 1st, 2012
8:56 am

Even though I don’t like taxes, I could have been convinced to vote for TSPLOST if the project list would have done something. For the people that drive down 400 every day, even if everything on the project list was completed tomorrow it would not have a huge effect on their commute. The projects did not address the problems.

What somebody said earlier was correct. They should have picked 4 or 5 big projects that would combined provide relief to a majority of people and this would have passed. Instead of airport control towers and bike trails, focus the money on extending MARTA to places where it made sense, and then also add money for the outer loop, some expansion on 400 or 85 and maybe the beltline (still not sure on that one). You put together something like that and it could have support. ITP people would vote yes to get the MARTA expansion and 400/85/outer loop could get you a lot of OTP votes.

The problem wasn’t just TSPLOST, it was the project list which is why the yes campaign never focused on the projects and even said to focus on the vision and don’t get bogged down in the projects. They knew the projects were not the best projects to make a difference.

I would rather they spend 2 years and come back with a new proposal then to spend 10 years and 8 billion and not have much significant improvement for most people.

Frank

August 1st, 2012
8:56 am

I regret that the Tea Party is getting credit for this. In my view they,re just dunderhead puppets of the self servicing greedy. This loss was about ralleying against the wealthy enriching themselves on the backs of the less wealthy. Were the wealthy to pay their fair share as opposed to sending money off shore, looking for tax loop holes and paying off politicians to create faverable laws on the backs of the majority, like Romney, this would have gone differently.

Jason

August 1st, 2012
8:59 am

The politicos are saying this morning that they’re going to work hard to regain our trust. And the next thing out of their mouths is, “Hey, here’s the Plan B that yesterday we lied and said didn’t exist.” Yeah, good luck on rebuilding trust that way.

Jive Bus System

August 1st, 2012
9:00 am

Why would I trust politicians who allow the corp to continue to drain our lakes to the bone to protect endagered muscles in the savanah river and the gulf. Atlanta has a water problem that is far worse than the traffic problem. If traffic stops growth and development that is a good thing, because we do not have enough water for the growth we have already had over the last 40 years. When the water is gone that beltline sure will seem stupid. Stop the corp from draining Georgia’s lakes.

Church of the painful Truth

August 1st, 2012
9:01 am

After 60 years and 30 of them working in and around State Government,I have seen it all. In the last 12 years I have witnessed the total lack of leadership,direction and planning by our current and past politicians.Yes,we had our share of corrupt politicans 20 years ago,but never at the level we have now.Why do they run for political office???? To be public servants? No.Maybe to be good stewards of our tax dollars?No.How about wanting to improve State Government? No. Why would they want to spend thousands or millions of dollars to be elected to public office? It all comes down to two things in ever politician,MONEY and POWER. We are in dire need for good women and men who have the honesty and character to lead this State. Folks we are in big trouble!!!Now we will see what PLAN B has in store for us!

ANGRY AS HELL

August 1st, 2012
9:02 am

Let’s all take a walk down Memory Lane. If you want to lay blame at the feet of someone for the current state of transportation woes in Atlanta and around Georgia, think of Sonny Perdue. He sat on his fat butt for 8 years making money for himself, and let the Georgia Dept. of Transportation run rudderless. This decsion to offer a referrendum for the voters was a last-ditch effort on the part of an equally-ruderless, Republican-controlled Georgia House and Senate to put SOMETHING up as evidence they were doing SOMETHING about the sorry state of intrastate transportation. All the House and Senate Republicans scrambled to vote on it, only to turn around this past year and start distance themselves from the referrendum ploy. Now, we have a Plan B, but at least Deal is taking charge since there is such a paucity of political leadership in this state. Georgia !!! Wake up and smell the coffee ! You have elected idiots and liars to run YOUR government.

Artimus

August 1st, 2012
9:04 am

T-SPLAT!!!!!
Funny how the T-baggers are claiming victory. I just think the people, at least in this case, were smarter than they needed to be. The referendum was packed full of “pork”.

Roadrunner

August 1st, 2012
9:05 am

The total rape of the tax payers that are the Hot Lanes set up Tsplost for failure. Paying tolls on an existing road? Fool me once shame on you….

Wutehvah

August 1st, 2012
9:06 am

Too bad the outer perimeter project was killed – I believe that would have helped. East/West travel on the Northside is a biotch

Kay

August 1st, 2012
9:07 am

I voted no. 1. The government cant be trusted to work with our tax money. 2. I am sick of looking at Gwinnett County bus lines that carry one (1) person to work. 3. We are to spread out for a rail system to work and the buses take forever to get anywhere. 4. I will not support any more tax increases while government workers sit and claim 100% retirement pensions and keep adding to it daily. Then they retire and get rehired making more of our money.

Government today is the most corrput ever. Until they can handle the money WE THE PEOPLE

Let's SEW Atlanta!!!

August 1st, 2012
9:07 am

I guess everyone in Atlanta is going to have to learn to sew since we are going to “reap what we sew” according to ep. I prefer embroidery.

GFY

August 1st, 2012
9:07 am

P B Orr:

Don’t forget to go by and pickup a Chick Fil A sandwich today.

hiram

August 1st, 2012
9:07 am

This is just what Brother Deal needed. Keep your eyes on him, his Gainesville poultry sugardaddies, shady business partners, and Sonny. All roads lead to Savannah…

Corny Hull

August 1st, 2012
9:08 am

With the Presidential race up in the air, and depending who wins that, Washington has something in the vicinity of 21 taxes ready to hit the public. Needless to say, TSPLOST at this time time to vote on was not bright timing, in itself. Oh yeah, let’s see if the toll on 400 ever disappears!!! Talk is still cheap and ACTION still speaks louder than WORDS.

Wutehvah

August 1st, 2012
9:11 am

Think Deal will follow-thru on killing the 400 tolls now that TSPLOST has been killed?? NOT!! That promise came outta the blue he thinks that’s gonna help his re-election. Why not kill the tolls now?? Too little / too late

amy

August 1st, 2012
9:13 am

Of course there was a plan B!!! No one lied to you, plan B is just not as extensive because there will be no tax income to build roads or make improvements. How does anyone think these things get done?

Amazing

August 1st, 2012
9:17 am

Tha AJC headline that the Tea Party won is misleading. One, it is an insult to the intelligence of non-tea partiers who clearly voted in large numbers against T-Splost. The headline should read Georgians won in the defeat of T-Splost. What is also interesting is that I heard someone say they voted against the T-Splost because they did not trust policitians to handle the money appropriately. But, the same knuckleheads (from the right and left) were put back into office. Doing the same thing the same way will not get you different results!

Sideline Dude

August 1st, 2012
9:19 am

And may TSPLOST rest in peace forever & ever. If it had passed, the DOT would have been even more powerful. It’s already a fourth branch of state government.

JL

August 1st, 2012
9:19 am

Just a side comment. So if rail lines are so valued by major corporations such as Home Depot, Cox communications, Coca-cola, etc. why aren’t any of their major corporations at a major MARTA train station? The business leaders should put their money where their mouths are.

This city no longer has a centralized business district, it’s fragmented.

Also, if you really want a reduction in traffic, why not introduce a Major INCOME TAX CREDIT for those who live within a 5 mile radius of where they work. (Oh wait that doesn’t put money into cronies hands, too simple I guess)

blady

August 1st, 2012
9:19 am

Has anyone asked our Georgian elected officials why they didn’t take some of the Obama stimulus dollars to fund some of these ‘critical’ projects? Seems they cut off their noses to spite their faces. And then they want us to pay for their decision to put politics before people. NO, NO, _ELL NO!

Middle of the Road

August 1st, 2012
9:20 am

Jason beat me to it : I was told there was not and would not be a “Plan B”. Then we were told a couple of days ago that the vote would be close. And you want to know WHY we don’t believe those who were pushing TSPLOST. “Yes, it WILL end after ten years, trust us.” “Yes, we will take down the Ga400 toll booths, trust us”. “Yes, we will spend this money wisely, trust us.”

Jason

August 1st, 2012
9:21 am

“Of course there was a plan B!!! No one lied to you, [...]”

Um, yes, they said over and over again “There is no Plan B”. That’s was lie. You can debate over whether or not anyone should have believed them but just because the lie was obvious doesn’t mean it wasn’t a lie. Stop enabling their awful unethical immoral behavior!

Road Scholar

August 1st, 2012
9:21 am

Oldfart @12:17am: SRTA has always been a separate authority. The Board consists of it’s Director (Evans) , the GDOT Commissioner and the Governor.

Someone accused the Tea Party and Nimby’s of killing Splost. Add: Bananas…Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything!

Alex Bacardi:The OP will do nothing but add sprawl, further diluting transportation dollars. Oh and the original OP did not go through North Fulton. It went through Gwinnett, Forsyth, and Cobb Co. It was Forsyth that allowed, no built schools, and sewage treatment plants and rezoned property within the area of the environmentally preferred alignment! It was repub homeowners that caused Sonny to kill it 30 days before the Environmental Impact Statement was to be approved by the Feds. Traffic models and patterns showed that it would minimally approve congestion on I 285 and on the local road system. Please get your “facts” right!

Bob in Atlanta.

August 1st, 2012
9:22 am

Georgia is so ass-backwards.

Liberty

August 1st, 2012
9:24 am

Metro Atlanta is a backward and conservative place. Nothing has changed.

Ken

August 1st, 2012
9:27 am

The solution is very clear … ask 3-million people to move out of the Atlanta-metro area. Now, that’s progress.

GAAREDSTATE

August 1st, 2012
9:30 am

The message was…and will continue to be …..NO NEW TAXES!

Reign in excessive spending and exorbant budgets at the FEDERAL, STATE and LOCAL Level!

Every BUSINESS that wants to survive makes FISCAL ADJUSTMENTS except GOVERNMENT!!

GOVERNMENT (At all levels!)….that nasty word that thinks it is ABOVE ALL when it comes to FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY!

GET RID OF THE FAT, THE PORK, and SPEND “within your means”! It would be AMAZING if the GOVERNMENT could set an example and stop the RUNNAWAY SPENDING TRAIN!

As a resident of COBB COUNTY….it amazes me how much money is WASTED on re-designing perfectly good roads, creating Kaos….and not fixing the simple “POT HOLES”!

I am proud that “WE THE PEOPLE” sent a message to “GOVERNMENT”!!!

hiram

August 1st, 2012
9:31 am

This is just what Brother Deal needed. Keep your eyes on him, his Gainesville poultry sugardaddies, shady business partners, and Sonny. All roads lead to Savannah. I forgot Kasim – he’s suddenly interested in Savannah also. Deal, Perdue, Reed, LLC.

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
9:33 am

Here’s why the T-SPLOST failed. Because of comments like Tim August 1st, 2012 1:02 am

Uninformed people. The Ga 400 tolls were nothing like the T-SPLOST because there was no limit set on how long the tolls would be in place. There were limits set by law with the T-SPLOST.

Also the HOT lanes were force upon commuters. We had the option to vote on this. Enjoy your plan B no voters!

Middle of the Road

August 1st, 2012
9:35 am

Plan B for improving traffic and restoring faith in government:

Remove Toll Booths from Ga 400 TODAY! Eat the penalties.
Disband GRTA.
Convert I-85 HOT lanes back to HOV lanes. Pay back any federal monies.
Study the REAL causes of traffic congetion on ROADS and come up with REAL solutions (not building a Beltline that will not take ANY traffic off 75 north).

I think you will find the majority of causes of gridlock are:

Peace Out ATL

August 1st, 2012
9:37 am

Good job in not passing a tax that would have been funded by a lot of people who don’t even live in your own state. I know I would HATE it if a bunch of random strangers helped to pay for renovations to my house. So yeah, way to not let people from out of town help to pay for new roads and mass transit opportunities! Woo hoo! Take the power back! Yeah! Let’s instead wait on property and gasoline tax increases to fund renovations to 285. That’ll show big government!

Just another referendum on the fiscal stupidity of most of America. This city will be a laggard in the southern business community by 2020.

PLAN B

August 1st, 2012
9:38 am

Move to a city with residents who care about their future. You all have fun with a population of Tea Baggers and those too poor or stupid to move. Should make for a good mix at Braves games.

Hayek

August 1st, 2012
9:39 am

JL..Spot on,

I woud opine that the answer is because their employees would have to either downsize or spend big $$ on similarly size homes and pay for private school.

Like I said on page 4, this plan was about maintaining status quo and lacked vision.

Wutehvah

August 1st, 2012
9:39 am

Bryan — MARTA supporter …

Yes, there were limits set on GA 400 tolls. The project passed because the tolls were to be stopped once the project was paid for. That happened several years ago, yet the toll is still being collected.

PLAN B

August 1st, 2012
9:39 am

@middle of the road. You just named 3 things that cost money without solving anything. Brilliant.

BLAH!!! BLAH!!!! BLAH!!!!!!!

August 1st, 2012
9:40 am

I didn’t agree completely with everything that TSPLOSH was bringing to the table, but it was a START… when are some of us going to come out of our caves and realize that the rest of the World, better yet, the rest of the Country is passing this region by… Sorry, this isn’t the seventies anymore, time to get out of your little World’s for a moment,the population isn’t going to get any smaller (unless some big natural and/or self afflicting occurrance happens) …. Gwinnett, Dekalb, North Fulton, Cobb, and Clayton all have MASSIVE TRAFFIC ISSUES!!! No, these bootleg, stupid transit buses a.k.a Gwinnett Transit (even though helpful) will not solve the problem, we need more RAIL LINES, Sidewalks, heck, even more bike paths to control the problem, the goal is to get some of the cars off the Dang roads!!!! I personally am sick of wasting my life in traffic!!! Sick of HIGH GAS PRICES, Sick of hearing about another deadly accident (and sitting in it), sick of spending of my hard earned money on all of the stupid Car maintance!!!! No, I’m not going to move elsewhere (unless I can actually find a better job), I am actually from here!!! The Atlanta metropolitan area continues to prove to be a Big City with a Mississippi Mentality!!!!!!! Georgia, grow the $^%@ up, stop with the scared, slave mentality!!!! Vote for Politicians who actually know what they are doing, stop supporting the idiots in organizations such as the Tea Party and NAACP!!!!! Time is passing us all by!!!!!!

Good Grief

August 1st, 2012
9:40 am

Are we actually to believe that we don’t have enough revenue to make cuts in certain places and move those funds toward targeted infrastructure repair?

Or is Georgia’s government just like the federal government: willing to raise spending 5%, but then unwilling to make even the smallest of spending cuts?

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
9:41 am

@ GAAREDSTATE August 1st, 2012 9:30 am

You guys really showed government huh? Guess what? GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO SHOW YOU NOW! Instead of us using local money to pay for projects decided by local officials we will now have BIG government choose our projects for us and we will be forced to pay for them. Not with tax increases but with reduction of government spending in programs needed and the perfect HOT/TOLL lanes that we currently have. And trust it will be done by any governor (Repub or Demo) because ATL has a traffic problem.

GREAT JOB NO VOTERS!

PLAN B

August 1st, 2012
9:41 am

Atlanta + 12 years = Detroit

REALLY??

August 1st, 2012
9:46 am

So plan B is to put all transportation decisions in the hands of someone with no transportation experience? What a bass ackwards state this is.

Road Scholar

August 1st, 2012
9:46 am

My observation on the vote: The same incumbents were revoted back in, or at least lead and will have a runoff.-So much for throw those bums you can’t trust out! The Tsplost was defeated- No new revenue- same problem we have now- too many needed projects and not enough funds. The business community lost big time- then why do you keep supporting the same candidates- do you think your on-going support will change anything? Deal is taking over GDOT- it happened under Perdue- you’re a little late- now it is out in the open. Reelect the GDOT Board? Who the he!! do you think the legislators will vote in?

Get real! All you transportation “experts” that voted against Tsplost…have fun sitting in more traffic when the GRTA and Cobb buses stop running and all those people get in their cars! Have a nice morning noon and night in traffic, ya’ll!!! Oh and the price of gas is going up! Put that in your gas tanks!

yuzeyurbrane

August 1st, 2012
9:48 am

Deal is to be commended for exercising some leadership. If he chooses wisely, the voters will reward him; if he chooses badly, or corruptly, the voters will punish him. Ideally, these choices should come from the legislature but T-Splost has shown what a bunch of spineless politicians they are.

J Throckmorton Malcontent

August 1st, 2012
9:48 am

Hopefully this we be the end of goverment by referenda in Georgia. If it doesn’t work in California it certainly won’t work here.
The reason politicians and politics are a necessary evil is that it requires a professional class, acting professionally, to advance the public good. When the Georgia executive & legislature show some interest in something other than shovin’ dem babies back up in there and slashing education funding and accept their responsibility to act and lead, then progress of some sort can be made. If you kick it back to the people–any people, not just Georgians or Americans–they will always vote for less taxes and more services. This is a given. It is the task of the political class to work around this fact.
No one expects politicians not to line their pockets–but if they forget to do the public good while doing well for themselves, they will lose the public trust and therefore access to the cookie jar.

john

August 1st, 2012
9:51 am

Delta should build up it’s presence in Charlotte because that will become the capital of the South. Atlanta and Georgia as a whole just took a huge leap backward, But we still have the trolley from Centennial Olympic park to the King center.Does that qualify as Mass Transit?
Debbie Dooley you and fellow Tea Partiers have ruined the Republican party. I am ashamed to say I am a Republican ,You and Chip Rogers have no foresight and will drag Georgia and Atlanta into a second tier city and region.

Frankie

August 1st, 2012
9:51 am

SO what your suggestion, stop complaining about a loss and get a new plan.
a lot of the so called traffic fixes in and around atlanta were not backed by any information, what purpose does it serve to widen a road that is seldom used or the traffic flow is not causing any delay.

They should be looking at the Merge lights that back up traffic onto the secondary roads ad are the cause of numerous accidents daily.
If the TSPLOST was so great, what was the money we spent previous tax dollars on to IMPROVE the roads used for…wy are we in the situation we are in now with traffic concerns…

GA DOT filed to properly plan forexpansion. they fell behind in the planning now they are trying to make up for it by wrapping this whole initiative around job creation, business comng to georgia…
the campaign did not give enough info…what states have utilized TSPLOST and have succeedd…name them
If we are 9th in the nation with the worst traffic there are 8 other cities where the traffic is worse and what fixes have they implemented to correct there situation….learn from the worse…

Good Grief

August 1st, 2012
9:52 am

How could you be okay with the way TSPLOST was presented? The government “chicken counters” had numbered the eggs before they’d even been laid. What I was told, by a TSPLOST proponent, was that it was a 10-year or $8.5 Billion tax, which ever came first. So what if it went ten years but only garnered $6 Billion? Do we just tell the counties whose jobs had not been completed but had been promised that they were just SOL?

As someone mentioned the other day, when the bathroom faucet is broken, you don’t completely remodel the bathroom. A lot of the problems with traffic flow statewide can be fixed with targeted repairs.

S12C4131

August 1st, 2012
9:53 am

Brian -
Re: your comment, “Do you realize that Dallas and Charlotte have little to no rail transit?”…

Dallas has the most extensive light rail system in the United States. Thanks for doing your research.

And now to celebrate the results of this referendum, I’m going to upgrade from a SUV to a F-250. Yep, I know I’ll use it primarily for commuting; but once in a blue moon I’ll need it for haulin’ stuff! I’ve got the space for it because I live 30 miles out of the city in a 4-bedroom house worth $130,000. And let’s face it, with the F-250 I’ll look cooler to my garishly conservative friends!!

PLAN B

August 1st, 2012
9:54 am

Charlotte Braves…has a good ring to it. If Liberty Media was smart they’d move them right now to a city that cares about the future.

Hayek

August 1st, 2012
9:57 am

Road Scholar ,

Actually most transaportation experts said it was a bad deal and would do little to alleviate congestion. South Fulton and North Fulton both said NO. I would argue that the majority who said “Yes” lived in Midtown, and West Dekalb.

Chris p

August 1st, 2012
9:57 am

8 MILLION $ typo in the first line!

willie lynch

August 1st, 2012
9:58 am

While I didn’t think the TSPLOST was well conceived it was a way for the people to have a say. So what they said was NO, and now we have no say. The shortsightedness of many in this part of the country is going to be the undoing of the greatest city in the south. As the old saying goes “You can’t get something for nothing.”

TruChristian

August 1st, 2012
9:58 am

We should have gone with Sonny’s plan and prayed for roads.

Frankie

August 1st, 2012
9:59 am

road scholar this is bigger than cobb and grta buses. the legislation has let the state down by not doing enough to promote the TSPLOST…
a ball of roads on a bill board is not enough.
the people need to know how we got to this current state of gridlock and what the plan to get us out will be not throwing money at a problem in hopes it will go away.. then try and wrap jobs and businesses around the issue.
those businesses that won’t come here becauseof traffic concersn weren’t coming here last year or the year before that or the year before that…so what happened then…
the IMPROVEMENTS the GDOT has made over the last 18 years I have been here have not been enough and they knew it…piss poor planning, now you want TAX PAYERS to BAIL out the STATE AGAIN…
WHere is my BAIL out I keeppayiing more for property taxes, gas, food, rent, etc…. and no raises, no nothin….

aggravated commuter

August 1st, 2012
10:00 am

If you want to know how the roads are going to turn out now that the Governor is in charge…just ride down and observe the road quality and conjestion on West Paces Ferry Rd some weekday morning. For those of you that don’t know, that is the road where the Governors mansion sits, and guess what its constantly backed up and one of the roughest most beat up roads in all of greater Atlanta.

NO TSPLOST !!!

August 1st, 2012
10:01 am

Vote NO NO NO for TSPLOST was right…..now T-SPLAT!!!

Johns creek

August 1st, 2012
10:01 am

Plan B is what makes sense. Fix DOT, prioritize the projects, and cut the costs of construction. it is time to govern instead of raising taxes and throwing money around. MARTA has serious problems that need to be fixed before we spend more money on mass transit, including the current Fulton/Dekalb only 1% sales tax. Stop the new Falcon dome and spend the hotel tax on the belt line, if it is such a good idea.

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
10:03 am

Here’s why the Sierra Club and NAACP (and yes I’m Black) are idiots. I completely agree that the I-20 line from Garnett through Turner Field down I-20 to Stoncrest Mall should’ve been built. Here’s the issue though: There was 225 million for bus service but MARTA also put this project on their top priority list for federal funding. The feds already made it clear that if the T-SPLOST didn’t pass that ATL would not get as much money from the transportation bill that was passed a few months ago.

So, if we would have come up with 225 million the feds would have put something toward the 1 billion dollar line (lets assume 300 million) to atleast build half of the rail line (from Garnett to Candler Rd). Lets be real, we all know the WHOLE I-20 line wouldn’t have been built at one time but atleast there would have been some rail there to serve Turner Field, Glenwood Park/East ATL, and South Dekalb ITP. Untimately the extention would have been built.

But now we have no funds at all toward the I-20 line and expect the feds to foot the whole 1 billion dollar bill? When we as a region can’t even work together to fund our own projects? So instead of giving us an opportunity to have rail to Emory which is needed, possible rail to S. Dekalb, more bus rapid transit options, more express bus options, more local bus options… we now get nothing! Oh and this just doesn’t hurt transit supporters, federal funding for roads will be cut too by the feds. GREAT JOB NO VOTERS!! Instead of getting something we now get nothing…. nothing but more toll roads and HOT lanes and projects picked and forced on us by the governor!

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
10:06 am

@ Wutehvah August 1st, 2012 9:39 am

Again, it wasn’t set by LAW to end the tolls, it was just promised that on that date they would. I promise if you send me 100 bucks now I’ll send you 1000 later Wutehvah! Don’t keep your hand out waiting… and that’s unfortunately what government did. But once it is on a contract and is law it HAS TO BE DONE!

whiteboy

August 1st, 2012
10:07 am

@ BLAH!!! BLAH!!!! BLAH!!!!!!!….. great point….but these people are going to let fear continue to control and ruin their lives….the solution is most have to die off and that takes time….thanks to the obesity problem around here with these null brain advocates, that may happen sooner than you think…

Hayek

August 1st, 2012
10:11 am

aggravated commuter wrote:

“If you want to know how the roads are going to turn out now that the Governor is in charge…just ride down and observe the road quality and conjestion on West Paces Ferry Rd some weekday morning. For those of you that don’t know, that is the road where the Governors mansion sits, and guess what its constantly backed up and one of the roughest most beat up roads in all of greater Atlanta”

–IIRC it seems to happen every time a new multi million dollar home goes up on the street. No sense in repaving it if it’s going to get torn up 1 month later.

No New Taxes

August 1st, 2012
10:11 am

Why is it that the solution to our traffic problems to always build more roads? How about studies to look at traffic patterns outside of the metro area and divert this flow from entering the metro area? Have you looked at license plates on our interstates? Many of them are just passing thru. Getting them off the metro area interstates may be the first step. But again, these are 20th century ‘band aids’ to our problem. We really need to look at this from the view of the 21st century. Telecommuting is a great way to help relieve traffic, reduce carbon footprint, maintain a healthy workforce, and many other benefits. Granted, not all persons making the ‘daily commute’ can telecommute; however, there are quite a number who can every day or perhaps 1 or 2 times a week. Instead of raising taxes to build more roads, how about offering tax incentives for businesses with telecommuting workers? Funds for these advantages could have been seeded with the millions spent on the Pro-TSPLOST campaign; what a waste. The advantages are HUGE if the business can take advantage of a telecommuting tax break. There is not enough time or space to discuss this idea fully here. But perhaps some of our legislators are reading this and can work to make this a reality.

Bottom line, building more roads is so 20th century and adds to the noise, environmental issues, oil dependencies, the list goes on and on. We need legislators who have a brain and can think for themselves on what is right and work for the future of our children. Leave your lobbyists behind once and for all and do what is right for us, the people of Georgia.

No Taxes

August 1st, 2012
10:15 am

I luv it when I can smack the powers what be up the side of their heads with a 2 by 4!!! He he ha ha, losers, no new taxes, and reduce the existing ones. Lets vote to remove the taxes on our electricity, water, phone, natural gas, cable tv, telephone, and internet service! Stop taxing everything the public does or next time we will use real 2×4’s and a few buckets of tar and feathers!

MoneyUP

August 1st, 2012
10:15 am

The crooked nathan deal will now use this chance to get hold of billions in transportation dollars to hand out to his connected friends for road deals, land purchases, development, etc. They’ll be richer than ever–taxpayers will get hosed again with more waste and fraud—typical of this poorly run city.

Chris

August 1st, 2012
10:16 am

Atlanta, Fulton and Dekalb, let’s build our own streetcars and bike trails. F@ck the the ‘burbs, and the tea party A$$holes. Let them wallow in their own $hit.

Wutehvah

August 1st, 2012
10:16 am

Bryan — MARTA supporter…

So, don’t trust the gov’ment, gotcha!! I can’t send you the $100 without your address. ;)

aggravated commuter

August 1st, 2012
10:17 am

@Hayek

IIRC 1 new house has been built on that road that I am aware of. One in the past year. Have you been down that road lately?

Average Citizen

August 1st, 2012
10:17 am

If there arn’t enough roads or lanes in Metro Atlanta for some folks, then those folks are free to move to another metro area.

I certainly hope that the media are watching to ensure that Deal doesn’t direct road construction projects to his financial supporters or that he receives any type of consideration from the companies that profit from the improvements.

The projects that are bid need to be bid openly and the lowest bidder that meets the specs awarded the project.

And that is without regard to race, color or creed – right NAACP?

Middle of the Road

August 1st, 2012
10:19 am

“@middle of the road. You just named 3 things that cost money without solving anything. Brilliant.”

I named three things that would go a LONG way toward re-establishing a faith in government. The fact that they cost money is because they were done improperly in the first place. Admitting your errors, and paying the price, is the first strp to regaining trust.

S12C4131

August 1st, 2012
10:19 am

Bryan – You’re speaking my language. But you have to consider how Atlanta voters think… “If I personally am not going to use rapid transit, then why should I pay taxes to fund it?”

I’m also getting the feeling that suburban Atlantans aren’t really grasping some of the abstract concepts of a mass transit system. For example: ‘Hmmm, if this tax will fund an upgrade of MARTA’s electrical system; that may provide an opportunity to expand capital assets in the future…hmmmmm….’
Also Atlanta, take a lesson from other world cities with well developed (albeit irresponsibly funded) mass transit systems – If you expand your transit system (gasp), more people will use it.

willie lynch

August 1st, 2012
10:19 am

Rail needs to be extended N,S,E, and W, with increased bus service to go along with it. Expanding roads is not the answer.

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
10:22 am

@ Chasbo August 1st, 2012 7:19 am

You actually made the point for transit support. In San Fransico the ACTUALLY SUPPORT TRANSIT and as you said even the police work to make transit better. How can you expect something like that when at every other corner you here people bad mouthing transit but then don’t support it to make it better? Dr. Scott has actually done a wonderful job with MARTA with limited assistance.

Not So Casual Observer

August 1st, 2012
10:22 am

The usual “Big Government Liberals” are crying and blaming the uneducated for the defeat of the TSPLOST. BULL!

1. “others would pay for this” – the “standard tax the visitors” ploy failed and rightfully so. Government has lived beyond its means solely to line the pockets of their buds.

2. The Progressives (insert sarcastic smile here) are the ignorant losers. Raise taxes on the rich, raise taxes on the OTP crowd, raise taxes on corporations, raise taxes on any soul as long as government grows – these “progressive” buffoons have only one cry – BIGGER GOVERNMENT!

3. City of Atlanta driving is more like a war zone every day. Pot holes and more pot holes. Why? Because the corrupt administrations of Massell, Jackson, Young, Campbell, Franklin and Reed have ignored the infrastructure and lined their own, and their buds, pockets. As presented in court, Bill Campbell hired 125 “discretionary employees” who had no regular duties, no job description and no skills. The expressed duty of City Government was to be a jobs program for young Blacks. The theft of tax dollars by these Mayors has COME HOME TO ROOST.

4. The only means to kill a tumor (Government) is to eliminate the blood supply (Tax Dollars) and this TSPLOST was nothing but a slush fund for government. Why not build a couple of more $100 million plus street car lines to nowhere?

5. Perhaps this will close the ignorant mouths of Jeff Dickerson and Alexis Scott who praised the leadership of Kasim Reed and his push to pass TSPLOST. Of course Dickerson will ALWAYS support bigger government – his entire means of income is tied to government and its various entities.

6. The Mayor of Atlanta was desperate to have TSPLOST pass in order to maintain the current voting demographics in Atlanta. The re-gentrification over the past several years has the current power structure quaking for fear of losing control of the cash cow that is the Atlanta voter and the Atlanta Airport. Traffic was forcing those working in Atlanta to move closer to their job and this was very bad for the current power structure.

7. The TSPLOST was such a poor program Mayor Reed could not deliver the support of Black politicians, much less the Black voter.

VOTERS have finally realized government (as currently constituted) is not here to help but to destroy the very fiber of this nation. The move to smaller, less intrusive government starts with a $7+ Billion boondoggle in Georgia thrown back in the faces of the politicians and others who conceived this slush fund proposal.

Now the job of “throwing out the trash” must continue in November with a clear vote in opposition to bigger government and the moronic “progressives” (on either side of the aisle) who support higher taxes and bigger government.

Return the federal government to the original plan outlined in the Constitution, eliminate most of the federal departments and return governing to those closest to the people.

Truth B-Told

August 1st, 2012
10:23 am

With the nation trying to heal from one of the WORST economic downturns in US history gov’t officials decided to ask GA voters to pay MORE in taxes.

T-SPLOST was a poor attempt to solve the city’s transportation needs – supports talked about businesses that would leave the state but did not address the issues for those everyday folks.

How does an air traffic control tower at an under-used airport in Cobb, unexplained roadway “improvements” in Canton, or floor repairs to a MARTA station in Doraville benefit motorists?

I agree something needs to be done to improve traffic in metro ATL (can you say MASS TRANSIT), but more roads is NOT the answer – we need more MASS TRANSIT!! BTW, using scare tactics on voters is not the best way to get us to pay MORE in taxes.

T-SPLOST was DOOMED from the start – at least in the metro. How could we be certain that this tax would have ended in 10-YEARS? Isn’t that what they said about the GA-400 toll road?

Maybe those who supported this TAX should think about that the next time they drive from Alpharetta to Midtown.

Middle of the Road

August 1st, 2012
10:24 am

“Atlanta, Fulton and Dekalb, let’s build our own streetcars and bike trails.”

Chris – please do. That is exactly what you should do. You wanted MARTA, so pay for it. You want the Beltline, so pay for it. If you want streetcars, then tax YOURSELF and pay for it.

And if Atlanta businesses are getting tired of employees coming in late with the same old excuse ” I was tied up in traffic”, then either tell your employees to leave earlier or relocate your business up to the suburbs WHERE PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT TO LIVE.

Road Scholar

August 1st, 2012
10:27 am

Frankie: “the IMPROVEMENTS the GDOT has made over the last 18 years I have been here have not been enough and they knew it…piss poor planning, ”

No, they spent the money on good projects..that were approved (GDOT staff selected) by the Board which is elected by the legislators! The revenue stream is less based on inflation and rising costs. All design, a lot of planning, maintenance and construction have been outsourced. GDOT personnel has been reduced…For the record, Perdue funded the GRIP system (4laning 2 lane rural state routes w/o traffic demand) by selling bonds and strapping GDOT with $400M of yearly debt for the next 15 years…1/5 of the GDOT yearly revenue!

Take 20% of your income and throw it away: we’ll see how you address your needs!

Janet Honesty

August 1st, 2012
10:28 am

Fulton and DeKalb residents already pay a 1 cent TAX for MARTA… with T-SPLOST we’d pay 2 cents while everyone else pays 1-cent.

Now was that really fair???? The TEA Party had nothing to do with the the defeat of this TAX – it was the SMART party of all GA voters.

Please!

Middle of the Road

August 1st, 2012
10:30 am

“And now to celebrate the results of this referendum, I’m going to upgrade from a SUV to a F-250. Yep, I know I’ll use it primarily for commuting; but once in a blue moon I’ll need it for haulin’ stuff! I’ve got the space for it because I live 30 miles out of the city in a 4-bedroom house worth $130,000. And let’s face it, with the F-250 I’ll look cooler to my garishly conservative friends!!”

We appreciate it. The extra gas tax you will be paying can now be used for some REAL projects.

Agree with "No New Taxes"

August 1st, 2012
10:30 am

To: “No New Taxes” – right on. If our elected officials, big business and the CHAMBER heads would put as much energy into truly thinking of our future versus today and the big $$$ they all can get we would be much better off. For instance: All companies that have “customer service phones – call centers – IT reps for troubleshooting over the phone, or benefit reps that answer phones for questions” – and they are indeed plentiful and a huge majority of our workforce – if all businesses allowed them to work from home – that alone would resolve a huge part of our transportation issues. They encompass at least 25% + of our workforce. Now why are these entities not thinking along these lines? This is the 21st century and this should be considered a no brainer. Until our elected officials can truly start “partnering” with the CHAMBERS/COMPANIES in our state encouraging such to alleviate traffic – we stand no chance. And until our corporations/companies can “come into the 21st century” then these issues shall remain. While they are some companies that do this, the majority do not. But then, that would mean “confronting the very people whose funds supplied them with support of T-SPLAT and other ventures throughout the years.” Don’t go to the public asking for more money when you are not getting creative with resolutions……

S12C4131

August 1st, 2012
10:33 am

Janet – You’re breakdown of the sales taxes is incorrect, you said it yourself.

Fulton and DeKalb residents pay a 1 cent tax for MARTA. The additional 1 cent would fund the transportation referendum projects. Fulton and DeKalb would still be the only counties to implement MARTA.

So, you would not be paying 2 cents while everyone else pays 1 cent. You would pay 1 cent for TSPLOST, and if you live in a county with MARTA, you would pay 1 cent for that.

Middle of the Road

August 1st, 2012
10:34 am

What I want to know is – Now that TSPLOST has gone T-splat, will Governor Deal keep his promise to remove the Ga 400 Tolls next year? I never believed him and I didn’t believe that the TSPLOST would go away in ten years. Oh yes, TSPLOST I would go away, just like Sonny removed the tolls on 400 for one day, just to claim he kept his promise. But we citizens aren’t stupid. TSPLOST I will be followed by TSPLOST II – “just remember, folks, you are already paying 8 cents sales tax, so you won’t feel any more pain, and traffic is still bad, so we need MORE money to REALLY get us a good transportation system (by the way, thanks to TSPLOST I, we reduced our MARTA fares to $1 for our poor friends)”

AtlantaCommute

August 1st, 2012
10:36 am

I believe everyone who voted against this in Atlanta should be required to use the entire length of both 14th and 10th streets as a part of their commute every day (except Wednesday, when they should be limited to using MARTA). Since they obviously don’t believe we have a problem than needs addressing, they won’t mind, will they? Of course they won’t.

sully

August 1st, 2012
10:36 am

where is the government prudence in an empty new international airport terminal?

where is the government prudence in an empty new streetcar?

where is the government prudence in a new control tower thats essentially for private and privileged use?

where is the prudence in subsidising sonny’s port?

and yet we taxpayers are left to sit in a traffic jam day after day.

us cash cows are getting sooooooooooooooooooooooo tired of this….

itsme

August 1st, 2012
10:37 am

I hope that the Powers That Be realize that this defeat has a three-fold cause: 1. Now is not the time to ask struggling people to pay more taxes, especially on food. 2. People don’t trust government to spend the money wisely (see #3) 3. So many of the proposed projects had nothing to do with improving traffic (the main stated purpose of the tax).

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
10:39 am

@ Ga Values

“1. Focus completely on reducing congestion, no beltline or airport improvements”

Lets see: widen roads, build new ones, improved pedestrian network, improved transit options… all things incorporated in the T-SPLOST that failed. I would love to hear how you would reducing congestion!

No Beltline. You mean don’t give people options to commute around the core of the city without a car, meaning now these people will be back in there cars just to clog the inner streets.

No airport. You mean don’t help the busiest airport in the world stay as such. One of the Atlanta regions major claims to fame.

Real Smart Ga Values

woodrow

August 1st, 2012
10:44 am

I think Atlanta is big enough. We just need to fix MARTA. We don’t want bigger roads and more cars. People need to park those ugly, noisy, smog belching SUV’s at home and take a bus. But first we need to fix the rail and bus system in Atlanta. We need to clean up the city. Badly.

Georgia on my mind....

August 1st, 2012
10:50 am

Janet Honesty

August 1st, 2012
10:28 am

Well said!! The Tea Party can NOT take the credit for the defeat fo the TSPLOST! People are becoming wiser and paying attention to the corruption that occurs in this state! How many citizens can actually trust an all Republican legislature to not be bias? We are STILL at WAR in Georgia and President Obama WILL WIN this state in November!! This will be an upset for the history books!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kH_EZF0XqM&ob=av2e

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
10:52 am

@ Wutehvah August 1st, 2012 10:16 am

LOL… don’t worry I can’t even send anymore. I’m saving it for the toll roads and HOT lanes that will be coming soon with the “Plan B.”

And yeah don’t trust the idiot repubs and tea partiers. Lets vote some people in that will actually do something for ATL and our transportation issues.

S12C4131

August 1st, 2012
10:53 am

Has anyone ever heard the phrase ‘Queue Jumper’?? It’s a magical lane that busses and carpools can use to bypass on-ramp signal lights. So if you commute via bus or carpool (something that will label you as a hippie to many of your ATL co-workers), you don’t have to spend 15 minutes just waiting to get on the interstate (the current state of ATL’s pretend Bus Rapid Transit).

Hmmmm…I wonder if the TSPLOST projects included the construction of Queue Jumper lanes?

Not So Casual Observer

August 1st, 2012
10:53 am

Dallas, Texas has been cited as an example of a city addressing the traffic problems created by growth.

The freeway system in Dallas is the central solution and all of the primary arteries utilize more lanes as well as access roads the length of the highway to distribute traffic, yet there are still slow areas and rush hour madness.

Growth begets traffic and the only solution to the traffic is short commutes.

ed

August 1st, 2012
10:54 am

We constantly hear the drumbeat for GROWTH. Growth is the lst thing we need. What is long overdue is PLANNING and DECENTRALIZING. There is no excuse for attempts to lure every new business to the counties immediately surrounding the City of Atlanta. Georgia is the largest state east of the Mississippi. Locate new businesses throughout the state and the worker pool will follow. Then you will have resolved the congested traffic in and around Atlanta…at no cost of billions. That may not suit the power happy officials like Mayor Reed, and his metro counterparts who can think only of increasing tax digests. But it is the new direction in which we must go.

Hayek

August 1st, 2012
10:55 am

S12C4131 wrote:
“…I’m also getting the feeling that suburban Atlantans aren’t really grasping some of the abstract concepts of a mass transit system. For example: ‘Hmmm, if this tax will fund an upgrade of MARTA’s electrical system; that may provide an opportunity to expand capital assets in the future…hmmmmm….’
Also Atlanta, take a lesson from other world cities with well developed (albeit irresponsibly funded) mass transit systems – If you expand your transit system (gasp), more people will use it…”

Acutually the suburbanites are thinking “I live in Douglas Count, and work @ The Perimeter” or “I live in Gwinnett and work in Cobb”. They’re correctly questioning how is mass transit will help them?. Metro Atlanta is decentralized with no real geographic restrictions to growth. There is no proof that mass transit works in this type of urban center of this size. Especially with the low cost of housing in the suburbs and the average household income.

Tech

August 1st, 2012
10:55 am

Atlanta: Welcome to the new home of the flip-phone wielding ignoramus…knows how to save money, but not time….But wait, isn’t time – money? Oh yeah, forget it…

Not So Casual Observer

August 1st, 2012
10:56 am

Bryan,

The Democrats in Georgia have always been, and always will be, the most corrupt. “Progressives” are losers – just like TSPLOST.

Vesaversa

August 1st, 2012
10:58 am

Metro Atlanta will pay a huge price for not doing anything to curve it’s crumbling infrastructure and we will also lose jobs to other states because of it .

John

August 1st, 2012
11:00 am

Hopefully the politicians got the message. You collect enough of our hard earned money. You need to be fiscally responsible with what you have because we can’t and give any more!

S12C4131

August 1st, 2012
11:01 am

Woah, woah, woah ed…..

“Georgia is the largest state east of the Mississippi…” ????????

If you mean population, I don’t even need to cite examples of how wrong you are. I’ll give you a hint – Ummmmmm, I know – There is a state that borders Georgia that has a much larger population. Let me know if that makes sense.

And if you’re talking size as in area – (cough cough) Michigan, Wisconsin, (cough cough) Florida… well, you get the point.

AtlantaW

August 1st, 2012
11:02 am

All you have to say about TSPLOST is that the people spoke. One thing the vote said more than people not wanting to pass a 1 percent tax is that they have no confidence in government. We constantly get articles about waste of tax payers dollars. When they can get with the program and show value to the people then maybe we will give them money. People are fed up! Also they need to get with todays thinking ideas not the old man thinking of way back to raise money. Taxes taxes dont work. Build casinos and gain the revenue there. For those who say that will create hardship for those that have a addiction to gambling they need to get go away. If you have an addiction to gambling you need to get help and get some will power. We will be hearing the we dont have the money for years to come in GA gov if we dont get some creative thinking. Enough said!

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
11:02 am

@ Middle of the Road August 1st, 2012 10:24 am

I complete agree with Chris! How about the burbs stop living and eating off Atlanta. Stop taking the money our taxes generate to widen your roads. Stop trying to get business to move to the burbs off the strength of ATL’s name. You don’t hear companies saying they want to move to the metro Marietta area, or the metro Lawrenceville area, or the metro Jonesboro area. The want to move to the metro ATLANTA area! Always remember the burbs you stay in with your nice sprawling subdivisions and strip malls wouldn’t be there if there wasn’t a major city close by, which in this case is Atlanta!

S12C4131

August 1st, 2012
11:05 am

AtlantaW, you’re right… The people of Atlanta spoke.

Unfortunately, the people of Atlanta also think that Georgia is the largest state east of the Mississippi.

Joe

August 1st, 2012
11:10 am

Atlanta, the new Birmingham of the south.

changeforgood

August 1st, 2012
11:10 am

Fix the school systems in Atlanta and DeKalb county! Maybe people wouldn’t move to the exurbs to provide a decent education to their children, and less commuting into the city.

Charlotte Yuppy

August 1st, 2012
11:11 am

In Charlotte, Raleigh, and Nashville, we all cheer, “Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!”

[...] Galloway at the AJC gives a hint at what the rest of the state can expect in terms of transportation funding going forward. It [...]

Not So Casual Observer

August 1st, 2012
11:14 am

S12C4131,

Georgia has the largest land area of any state east of the Mississippi.

Wutehvah

August 1st, 2012
11:14 am

Bryan — MARTA supporter…Please explain how the burbs are living and eating off Atlanta?

ATL would be an even greater shiothole without Alpharetta, Milton, etc. – where HUGE tax dollares are collected. Big business has come into the downtown area because of HUGE tax breaks. Proximity to the airport is a bonus.

I live in the burbs and rarely go to ATL. Why? Because I don’t need to. I work on the Northside, family/friends are up here, etc. Someone else has already mentioned that proposed Marta improvements do little/nothing to help Gwinnett workers into downtown – or East Cobb / Alpharetta workers to Duluth or other areas outside of downtown.

If TSPLAT targeted Marta expansion in a major way alone, then I might have been on-board. I no longer attend Braves games (which I love) because I can’t reasonably get there.

Tplan

August 1st, 2012
11:16 am

why didn’t they build a marta line to the baseball park or locate the park near a marta line??? Hello??? anyone out there??? hello?????

CobbVoter

August 1st, 2012
11:19 am

I want nothing to do with the corrupt and poorly run marta system in cobb county. This tplost was just a money grab by connected members of government and their “friends” in business to get billions in taxpayer $$$ to hand out and get rich. Stop the fraud, stop the waste in this crooked metro area.

T.A

August 1st, 2012
11:21 am

Actually, Georgia has more land square miles than any state east of the Mississippi River. See that here: http://www.netstate.com/states/tables/st_size.htm

Know your facts. Get it correct.

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
11:22 am

Chris August 1st, 2012 10:16 am

I completely agree. I would even support a MARTA tax increase, even up to 3 cent! But the other 2 would have to allow MARTA to control it fully, not that stupid 50/50 mess. We could do 1 1/2 on operations, 1 on maintainence, and 1/2 on just reserves and should be allowed to shift it when needed.

There will be years where MARTA doesn’t expand and others when it does. Years where the reserves don’t need as much and other when it will. MARTA should control that.

Let’s build our I-20 line, our Emory line, our Beltline, a new NW line to Cumberland (yeah I know it’s in Cobb but it’s a major CBD), a new northern I-285 line, extend the Red line up 400, extend the Blue line west to Six Flags (again yes I know it’s in Cobb but that is a major destination and will be a great commuter station).

Lets beef up our bus system with more BRT services and expanded local service. More frequent bus and rail service; No BREEZE system for free transfers to MARTA. Make them pay 2 fares or join MARTA. Clayton has already showed support and Gwinnett is about 50/50. Obviously there is a need for transit or CCT, GCT, C-Tran (when it was here), and Xpress wouldn’t exist!

No free parking at stations for other counties. Let them pay! And ITP needs tolls at all major highway crossing with I-285 for those coming into the perimeter ONLY. No tolls for going out. This way those who drive on Atlanta streets from the burbs will pay for wear and tear. If you want the burb life fine! But you will pay to play in the city or stay where you are!

Not So Casual Observer

August 1st, 2012
11:23 am

The City of Atlanta is not the draw. The Metro area and the airport draw businesses to this area.

Atlanta has to bribe the major sports teams to have them play inside the city limits, that alone should tell you somehing about Atlanta.

Atlanta and DeKalb schools spend more per student than any other system in Georgia and yet the only means to demonstrate educational success was to cheat on standardized tests. The Mayor and government in Atlanta are a mess and this is exemplified by the school system.

Businesses locate in the ‘burbs so their employees will have access to better schools, their work force will draw from a better pool and the quality of life exceeds that inside the perimeter. The crime rate in Atlanta is another consideration.

T.A

August 1st, 2012
11:25 am

The City of Atlanta always attracts tourists and people to work. It’s one of the highest tourist attractions in the country. There’s many attractions here and there is more office space in the entire city (Downtown, Midtown and Buckhead) than any of the suburban office districts (Cumberland, Perimeter, Gwinnett office markets.)

Status Quo

August 1st, 2012
11:25 am

Don’t expect real change in your lifetime. Anyone reading this list. From 7 to 70 years old. What you see, is what you get. Small changes will happen, like the new 400/285 interchange. That’s it. As a region, we will continue to waste away our lives in our cars, on roads that cannot handle even the current volume. In reality, Atlanta will be stagnant for at least the next 30 years as it chokes on itself. The home values, that were never on par with the rest of the country to begin with, will suffer as well. No investment in the future means no return on what you have now. Those few lucky enough to own in the hot spots, will continue to win, the rest, will continue to lose. Status Quo.

bigD

August 1st, 2012
11:26 am

My brother in-law retired from the fire dept at age 52. It’s been 10 years he doesn’t work he just sits back and rakes in his pension which he says is just a little less than what he was making plus he and his never worked wife have complete medical care. This is only one reason why our tax dollars don’t get us much anymore. And don’t give the bleeding heart crap about hero that’s all nonsense.

claytonco

August 1st, 2012
11:26 am

the clayton county bus system is terrible, but white racists keep voting down all these projects to get millions to buy new buses—I’m tired of this and may move back to new jersey next year if the economy gets better

Middle of the Road

August 1st, 2012
11:26 am

“Bryan — MARTA supporter…Please explain how the burbs are living and eating off Atlanta?”

I agree with Wutehvah – The ONLY thing Atlanta has that benefits the suburbs is the airport. How long was it before MARTA even ran a rail line to the airport? MARTA doesn’t go to the Braves Stadium. MARTA doesn’t go most places where people want to go. And then you complain because people don’t ride MARTA!

S12C4131

August 1st, 2012
11:27 am

Not So Casual Observer –
Hey I know plenty of people in Michigan (AND Florida) who live, work, and send their children to school in the middle of a lake.
So it’s proven, total area trumps land area! And GA’s total area is still smaller!!!

Alright fine, GA has the largest land area. So maybe that’s what we should be focusing on! “Move your company to GA, because in Florida there’s probably a lake in the way!!!”

Meredith

August 1st, 2012
11:28 am

There is always a plan B. Most plan Bs, though, are never the better choice. That is why they are the second option and not the first.

Keith

August 1st, 2012
11:28 am

When our government can learn to manage the money they already get from our taxes, then maybe something like this will pass. Here’s an idea- instead of sending billions upon billons of dollars overseas to other countries- perhaps the federal gov. could spend some here to fix what we have instead of fixing what others have.

Ga Values

August 1st, 2012
11:30 am

Bryan — MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
10:22 am

Ms Scott’s days at MARTA are numbered, you might think of getting non MARTA job, your days of spending the morning on the internet are probably also numbered.

David D

August 1st, 2012
11:31 am

The Tea Party has put another nail in the future of the USA. May they all spend their lives stuck in traffic or repairing flat tires on abandoned roads at night.

Chad

August 1st, 2012
11:31 am

That settles it. It’s time to move to a city where the residents do a little more thinking and a little less sheep fondling.

Todd - Lawrenceville

August 1st, 2012
11:33 am

I now realize that I live in an area with a bunch of moronic citizens. People cry about traffic, turn down an opportunity to work at, AND I SAID ‘WORK AT… resolving traffic congestion. At the same time a small community, Brookhaven, spends millions of dollars to become a city…

As a Georgia native who moved back home a cople of years ago, I now realize that most things I read and seen on TV about Georgia, the politicians and residents are, more than likely absolutely true. The metro region is nothing but a hugh parking lot; I am not referring to the roads,and interstate highways but the politicians and people who just sit around wanting a difference but not willing to ante up and work towards resolving issues. You people [yes, YOU PEOLPLE] call our President a socialist, but want your Local governemtn to fund every single thing. I guess its OK to have state socialism but not socialism on a national level.

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
11:34 am

@ S12C4131 August 1st, 2012 10:19 am

I think most ATL voters understand the importance of mass transit, even if they aren’t going to use it. Some people are going to drive and it is what it is. But more people on transit means more road for them to drive on without traffic.

I agree the burbs aren’t grasping the concept. They think that mass transit means mass crime. Or that there will be trains criss-crossing their entire county. The rail lines planned are going to do the same thing that their existing express buses do. Straight into the county with one line to take you into the city (downtown and Midtown). From there a supported MARTA and Beltline could provide efficient transit within the core or to areas around Fulton/Dekalb.

As far as expanded MARTA service I agree but you need to talk about the State in that situation. They are the ones that don’t support MARTA and hold restrictions to it so that it can never operate to it’s full potential.

NCR

August 1st, 2012
11:36 am

I don’t know why they don’t keep the 400 toll going for a couple more years, and use that money to make road improvements, where necessary, around the METRO ATLANTA area. After all, there’s a good chance that somebody that is using that toll is also going around other interstates (85,75,285) in the city, so it’s going to actually be used.

[...] is not a local priority. According to governor Nathan Deal’s director of communications, The State of Georgia is clearly aware of this problem: “Will we be able to compete in the global market with Plan B? [the alternative to TSPLOST]  [...]

AtlantaW

August 1st, 2012
11:36 am

Yes you are right S12C4131. My biggest gripe with government is not really taxes. It is how they use them. Our governments are so filled with corruption that you cant trust them. They dont make decisions based on good for the people they make it on what is good for the politicians and lobbiest. When they start treating government as a public service not a business people within gov benefit by I will consider giving more money. Until then I will shot their taxes down any chance I can get. Rail is the answer in this country but no one gets that.

S12C4131

August 1st, 2012
11:38 am

Combination post!!! (This is going to blow your mind)

TPlan – MARTA doesn’t go to Turner Field because it wasn’t part of the 1996 Olympic plan to make Atlanta appear to be a world city.

TA – Atlanta tourist attractions… Let’s face it, the major tourist attractions in ATL are middle of the road. There’s still a huge chunk of the country that’s like, “I don’t know anything about Atlanta, and I didn’t know that tourists even go there.” Which is a legitimate opinion, because Atlanta is not topping many ‘Places to Go’ lists. And to keep this in the element of this forum – I have talked to many visitors who are of the opinion that 1.) There is not much to see in the city AND 2.) Even Downtown, everything is so far apart that it is difficult to travel from attraction to attraction. And number 3.) “If MARTA was more expansive Downtown, it would be much more attractive to visit.”

Status Quo

August 1st, 2012
11:40 am

It’s quite unbelievable that this city ever hosted an Olympics. I’m sure there is much embarrassment about that still, within the IOC circles. This is no world class city. Atlanta is barely semi cosmopolitan.

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
11:41 am

@ Not So Casual Observer August 1st, 2012 10:22 am

No need to worry about “Big Gov’t Libs” anymore. The local leaders that wanted local money to stay locally lost. Now we’ll just deal with the BIG state government FORCING us to pay for projects THEY feel we should have all while increasing property taxes, cutting funding for other gov’t services, and adding more toll roads and HOT lanes!

Keith

August 1st, 2012
11:46 am

To all the post above that are crying because we didnt vote for yet another tax…….

Here’s an idea- instead of sending billions upon billons of dollars overseas to other countries- perhaps the federal gov. could spend some here to fix what we have instead of fixing what others have.

true_blue

August 1st, 2012
11:47 am

Atlanta has an extensive network of the rail lines. We do not need to build special line for light rail line, we can lease the rail lines from CSX and Norfolk Southern for light rail lines for the fractiopn of the building a separate line.
Our politicians need to spend our tax money more wisely, then building new international terminal or building separate Light Rail Train line

R.D.

August 1st, 2012
11:48 am

8 million wasted– Let the engineers do their work , this bottoms up nonsense doesn’t work! If someone want bike paths or trolly cars thats a city or county problem. Just like outter loop, 9 million wasted with this bottoms up nonsense!

true_blue

August 1st, 2012
11:48 am

Atlanta has an extensive network of the rail lines. We do not need to build special line for light rail line, we can lease the rail lines from CSX and Norfolk Southern for light rail lines for the fractiopn of the building a separate line.
Our politicians need to spend our tax money more wisely, than building new international terminal or building separate Light Rail Train line

AtlantaW

August 1st, 2012
11:52 am

Here is another thought. If politicians were honest maybe people would feel like they want to help pony up 1 percent. I know this adds onto my politicians are crooks theme but here is a little interesting nugget. Mayor Reed was on my answering machine pushing TSPLOST. He spoke of the cost except he got it wrong. He clearly said it would be a 1 cent tax. Listened to it 3 times. Last I checked it was a 1 percent sales tax not a penny. Am I wrong? Please politicians dont lie to the public. maybe he made a mistake but that is a bad timee to make a mistake on a blast voice mail pushing your agenda.

Tech

August 1st, 2012
11:52 am

The short-sightedness on this thread is worse than Atlanta traffic. Atlanta vs. the Suburbs of Atlanta is the dumbest conversation. The suburbs would not exist without Atlanta, nor could Atlanta, today, exist, without the suburbs. Get over this, and move on to the next subject. We really need to fix Atlanta, and it’s not going to happen without some serious thought and compromise. Every one is not going to get everything they want all at once. The people have to hold the government accountable. Without this we will all die in traffic….

Wutehvah

August 1st, 2012
11:56 am

AtlantaW… He meant .01 on each dollar, which is 1%

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
12:02 pm

@ Truth B-Told August 1st, 2012 10:23 am

I love your support of transit but hate that you seem to be mis-informed about the T-SPLOST.

@ S12C4131 August 1st, 2012 10:33 am and other alike

I’m confused on the argument of 2 cent versus 1 cent. These are two completely different taxes. What if the T-SPLOST tax was in place first and we were voting on the MARTA tax. If only Fulton/Dekalb approve it would be the same situation.

It is 2 different taxes, just one deals with MARTA specifically and the other deals with transportation for the entire region.

Tech

August 1st, 2012
12:02 pm

I have seen a number of times, on this thread, and elsewhere, where people have accused politicians of lying. It then turns out the person accusing the politician just didn’t understand what the politician was actually saying… 1 cent vs. 1% vs penny tax, etc. Stop assuming do the research, find out “why”, find out “what”. Demand better, get better. No wonder Atlanta is so screwed up…Intellectual curiosity at an all-time low…

oldtimer

August 1st, 2012
12:04 pm

I wonder how Fl and TN manage to have roads with no state income tax? If this had passed much of the Atlanta..Dekalb area would have had a 9% sales tax. I think we can do what we need to do without raising any taxes. We will not get rail. It is toooooo expensive. Buses, improved intersections, enforcement of speeds will all help. I just so not see an Atlanta where people give up their cars.

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
12:05 pm

@ Hayek August 1st, 2012 10:55 am

There could easily be express buses added from Douglas county that travel I-20 East to I-285 North to the Perimeter. Once there use local buses to get where they need to go, which are already there.

There was even a proposal for light rail from Doraville to Cumberland. If MARTA rail was extended in both Cobb and Gwinnett someone easily could commute to a rail station and travel to transfer to the I-285 light rail and get to where they needed to go, with the use of local transit once in the county they were going.

The Truth

August 1st, 2012
12:06 pm

Jive – there are plenty of cities of adequate size that don’t have the issues that affect Atlanta. What I can say is that the feeling is mutual. I’m tired of being surrounded by loud-mouth northerners that constantly piss and moan about the south. Move back! The point is that Atlanta is overrun by transplants that do zero for the community other than further congest the roadways and block transportation reform. Good riddance to people like you and the rest of the 95% of northern transplants that make Atlanta an unbearable place to live.

Kevin

August 1st, 2012
12:08 pm

A few years ago, I was at Jekyll Island for the weekend and saw a pretty fancy series of meetings going on at the Jekyll Island Club Hotel. Lots of drinking, music, and celebrating. In asking around, I found out the Georgia DOT was hosting the meeting for other DOT’s from the southeast (I guess to swap ideas on traffic). Maybe they can redirect some of that future money to the roads instead of rooms that run $200/night. The state does own a convention center there but I guess it wasn’t fancy enough.

woodie

August 1st, 2012
12:09 pm

For those not happy, move to Montana. It’s easy to get around there.

T.A

August 1st, 2012
12:12 pm

I agree with Tech… the discussion about Atlanta vs the suburbs is moot. As far as the government is concerned, it baffles me why the same people are sent back to the State Capitol even though there is such mistrust and disapproval. The voters of Georgia don’t want to see anything different or hold anyone accountable. This is exactly why we’re getting nowhere on issues such as transportation.

PLAN B---HA!

August 1st, 2012
12:12 pm

TAX DOLLARS WERE NOT USED ON THE INTERNATIONAL TERMINAL!!! BONDS PAID FOR IT!!

My GOD you people appear dumber today than you did last night when the votes were tallied.

pb

August 1st, 2012
12:13 pm

@S12C4131,

You make some very good points overall. Not that it’s that important, but Georgia is widely accepted as largest state east of Mississippi in land mass. Look it up on Wikipedia or some other source if don’t believe it. If look on map, it doesn’t look like Georgia is, but guess it just barely beats some other states. Oh well.

Hopper

August 1st, 2012
12:14 pm

Please don’t overstate the influence of the Tea Party in the T-SPLOST vote. I votedf against the proposal but not because I didn’t want to approve the tax. I voted against because the plan to “improve our roads” was vague. Yes, there were specific projects, but no overall plan for transportation improvements that would make our reads less congested. period. I find a connection between the fact that we voted on a proposal to ban expensive gifts from lobbyists to legislators on the same ballot. There is so little trust in our elected officials that we can’t expect the legislators to look after their own ethics? We have to do it for them? With this kind of absentee ethics and a history of corruption, why should anyone have voted in favor ot T-SPLOST? Well, since only one-third of the voters did, perhaps there’s the answer to why it was defeated: no trust — understandably — in the people responsible for carrying it out. Don’t give all the credit (or blame) to the Tea Party.

The Truth

August 1st, 2012
12:15 pm

As much as I hate NYC, I have to say it’s insanely easy to get around the city. Not only is their subway system fantastic, but the city is also very walkable – two things I can’t say about Atlanta.

darren

August 1st, 2012
12:16 pm

I guess the south will not rise again, after all. I didn’t realize the animosity toward government was so huge. Thanks, tea party, this day will go down in history as the start of Atlanta’s (and with it Georgia’s) demise. I mean, the project was far from perfect, but that’s the way these things always are. You’ve let perfect be the enemy of good, and now you get neither.

The Truth

August 1st, 2012
12:17 pm

Tokyo was bombed into the 1600’s during WW2, and their public transportation system makes Marta look like 2 drunks pulling rickshaws.

PLAN B---HA!

August 1st, 2012
12:18 pm

The more the NO voters explain why they voted NO the more it becomes obvious why this city will never compete with major cities around the US. This place is a freaking joke.

You all had a plan that:
-Had a dedicated project list formed through public meetings.
-Was 52% transit and 48% road improvements.
-Had an end date written in law.
-Had a budget written in law.
-Had a citizen review panel.
-Had annual independent audits.
-Had a stipulation that all projects will remain on budget and schedule or corrections would be made, by law.
-Had all of that being posted on a website for all to see.
-Had ALL funds being monitored by somebody other than GDOT and Marta.
-Only cost you $132 a year when congestion cost you $900 a year.

And you all said it wasn’t good enough. THAT IS THE BEST IT WILL EVER BE!!!

The Truth

August 1st, 2012
12:21 pm

It was the 95% of this city that is useless northern transplants (yes, 5% are good folks) that voted no because it’s not “they way they would do it up north”.

pb

August 1st, 2012
12:28 pm

@ the Truth,

The Civil War is over. Get over it. Whether you like it or not, “useless northern transplants” are here to stay. Aand they are not the reason the T- SPLOST failed. I know plenty of local native born folks who were against it too. Not to mention civil rights groups, Sierra Club.

Philman

August 1st, 2012
12:28 pm

Let’s follow a European style of transportation, Georgia and Atlanta are still behind…. Atlanta is just a small southern town with a Southern mentality…Nathan Deal worst governor ever!!!

Tech

August 1st, 2012
12:29 pm

@Plan B—HA!,
I’m baffled as well. I wish all the dumb people could only drive in one lane then maybe the roads would be free for others to use…

And I really hate to call some of you folks dumb, I guess ignorant would be technically more correct. But instead of understanding the larger picture, or even the facts, you obsess over minutia…forrest for the trees. At least if you don’t know why, look it up. There’s no excuse anymore you can find almost anything through Google these days. Google “clue”…

Do I sound bitter?

Hopper

August 1st, 2012
12:30 pm

I’ve come to know a few transplants from the Northeast and Midwest in Atlanta, and not one of them matches up to the slanders here. Comments by The Truth about northern transplants are wildly exaggerated. It’s stereotyping and not very helpful to any discussion here. There are, in my view, as many natives who “contribute nothing” as transplants. And let’s not get into cultural and economic drivers to this community, because then you’d have to exclude an awful lot of those darned transplants.

Philman

August 1st, 2012
12:33 pm

Tech- I agree with you, Georgians are ignorants… anyway in 2 years I am out of here…

gagirl

August 1st, 2012
12:36 pm

It’s really not a plan b. Rather than paying a penny for projects we got to approve, we’re just going to be at the mercy of what the governor prioritizes… TSPLOST sounded better.

Philman

August 1st, 2012
12:39 pm

The entire world is laughing at us…our own people too…are we still red necks?

PLAN B---HA!

August 1st, 2012
12:41 pm

It is SO freaking ironic. You all voted ‘no’ because you didn’t trust the government or didn’t think the projects would work. Now all decisions and money will go through a person that is a highly paid snake oil salesman with absolutely no clue about transportation. Great job.

Vote no Tsplost

August 1st, 2012
12:43 pm

What is it with everyone complaining;; stop fussing and write your reps for a road tax increase, if you want more roads, and I will be glad to pay, plead with your officials to RAISE THE FUEL TAX it is all very simple, everything you see and are driving on now, was paid for with a 25 year old, unchanged 7.5 cent fuel TAX, DOUBLE IT, I will pay, but so will the trucking industry, and not your grandmother!!!

PLAN B---HA!

August 1st, 2012
12:44 pm

Once all the smart people leave the city the dumb masses will probably accidentally burn it down again and start over so maybe it does work out in the end.

PLAN B---HA!

August 1st, 2012
12:46 pm

@Vote no Tsplost…do you realize that in order to raise the funds needed to relieve congestion the fuel tax would have to be raised way more than an equivalent 1%? AND you won’t have any control over how the “evil crooked government” spends it!

How does that make sense???

pb

August 1st, 2012
12:46 pm

Philman,

Maybe you are right. It was not good for the region that the tax plan failed. But have to consider that those proponents did not do a good job of selling it to the public. In this era of anti- tax and anti government sentiment, you have to have a really strong case to win. To overcome most people’s natural distrust of government and how they spend money wastefully.

Vote no Tsplost

August 1st, 2012
12:51 pm

Well first I want to say how happy I am at the TAX defeat, and the icing on my cake was the loss of TAX supporter, Sen Johnny Grant. As wrote yesterday in many blogs, the fight now needs to be carried to those that supported this TAX, which Mr. Grant did, I suggested that heads must roll. Only when the leaders see one of their own, brought down by the voters, will they pay any attention to us.

Secondly it has been written today, that the AJC is calling this a T party victory.
I take exception to that, as I am an independent. This victory was a loose coalition of Liberals, independents, conservatives and T Party members.
“Politics makes for VERY strange bedfellows”. Maybe our state officials should remember this.

Good Grief

August 1st, 2012
12:51 pm

Meredith @ 11:28am-
You’re statement that Plan Bs are not discussed because they are usually not the best option is apt, but consider how bad a piece of legislation TSPLOST was. If our elected officials are supposed to have our best interest at heart, why was this the best plan they could come up with? Taking more money out of the hands of people who for the last few years have seen declining jobs and housing values, and telling them that investing it now might bring jobs and growth to Atlanta in maybe eight to ten years, was a doomed proposition from the start.

That is, unless you trust your government to spend your money better than you can…

Tech

August 1st, 2012
12:52 pm

There are reasons why things are the way they are. Stop assuming they are they way as a result of happenstance. Its easy to find out. There are lots of reasons why there is foreign aid. Look it up. Stop thinking that it would be a simple thing to do, in most cases, to just not send any foreign aid.

Someone said something incoherent about tax dollars and the new Hartsfield International terminal, and it being empty…I’m glad someone else corrected their ignorant assessment about tax dollars. I wanted to add something else. Partially, the International terminal was created as an investment. An investment in Atlanta to attract more international travelers to our great city. Partially paid for by bonds, and some by the airlines themselves. A great investment for growth. To help accompany that attraction of new travelers and new sources of revenue to Atlanta guess what would have been nice? Maybe a plan to rectify some of our current traffic/transit issues…but this will get mired in dumb pissing-contest type politics instead of getting any real work done at all…

The Truth

August 1st, 2012
12:52 pm

@ Philman…no one is arguing anything about the Civil War…just a casual observance that most northern transplants lack intelligence, social skills, and vision – oh, and fashion sense! FYI, if you’re over 20 and not a professional or college athlete you have no business wearing a sports jersey!

[...] I hope Governor Deal becomes that leader for Georgia. Deal has already said he is going to act on a Plan B fast. The funny part about Deal’s Plan B is that the people won’t get to vote on it like [...]

PLAN B---HA!

August 1st, 2012
12:54 pm

@pb, why should anyone have to sell it? It’s a law written for 8th graders that takes 20 minutes to read. It’s not that complicated. The only reason you’d have to sell it is either a) the voter is too stupid to know what they’re reading or b)the voter is too lazy to read it. These same tea partiers were all up in arms when Nancy Pelosi didn’t read Obamacare before voting on it but they’ve all just done the same exact thing. Hypocrites.

PLAN B---HA!

August 1st, 2012
12:56 pm

The only reason I’m so frustrated today is because now I have to try and sell my house in a F**Ked up housing market to a tea bagger that will probably nitpick the crap out of the offer. Ugh..

Mike

August 1st, 2012
12:58 pm

Good luck to all you. You will all be sitting in bumper to bumper traffic, 2-4 hours every day trying to get to your $10 an hour jobs.

The Truth

August 1st, 2012
1:00 pm

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
1:04 pm

Not So Casual Observer August 1st, 2012 10:56 am

It’s so funny how you say that as we sit in a Republican state and while nothing has been done in years under Republican leadership!

Tech

August 1st, 2012
1:11 pm

@Good Grief,
So many assumptions and flat out misunderstandings of reality in your last post. Where to start… First. Bad piece of legislation…? I’ll just refer you to @Plan B—Ha! post above. I think it’s pretty clear that this was written (and would have been implemented) in the most open, full of checks and balances, public oversite manner possible. How is that bad legislation?? Give an example of good or perfect legislation.

Secondly, the project was to improve traffic for the people who live here, provide jobs for the people who live here, to improve the quality of life for the people who live here, and to allow for grow for new people who will live here, who should pay for it the magical traffic elves??

Third. Do you think being able to attract new business to Atlanta with a progressive plan for transit and transportation infrastructure would help with declining jobs? Do you think it would help with housing values?

Fourth. Guess what would have to happen inorder for much of the work to get started? (Hint it would be a lot sooner than 8 years) RIGHT! There would be hiring to start the work. Yes TSPLOST would have created jobs…not 8 years from now.

Did I miss anything?

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
1:19 pm

@ Wutehvah August 1st, 2012 11:14 am

Please explain to me when this became the Alpharetta metro area or the Milton metro area? Do you not understand that those business only come to the area for the name Atlanta? You even pointed out why downtown, Midtown, and Buckhead are still the biggest concentration of employers. All in ATL and all with great connection to MARTA rail.

Myself on the other hand, doesn’t stay confined to one area like you do and make assumptions. While Alpharetta and the north side do have some really nice areas there are far more nice areas in ATL than there and way more up and coming areas. Hell, if you go far enough out Campbellton Rd and Cascade Rd there are nicer areas than I’ve see in some of the northern parts!

As far as MARTA not helping East Cobb, Duluth, or Gwinnett as a hole your probably right. I wonder why though. Maybe cause MARTA DOESN’T GO THERE AND ISN’T ALLOW TO EXPAND! How can you make an argument like that when the service isn’t even provided there? I’m sure there are plenty of road project on the list that wouldn’t benefit Atlanta at all in some of those areas. The point is we are all one region and should be working as one to fix problems. Instead the OTP want to down ATL when ATL is the reason they have the life they have. Look at the rest of Georgia. Nothing but country. You people enjoy what you have because of close proximity to a major city, not because Alpharetta just grew into this major metropolis!

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
1:21 pm

@ CobbVoter August 1st, 2012 11:19 am

Yeah just keep your corrupt and poorly run CCT that makes every effort to connect to MARTA and Atlanta. You keep paying for that.

PLAN B---HA!

August 1st, 2012
1:23 pm

@Tech. Don’t waste your time. If they can’t understand how a ‘no’ vote guaranteed they are getting a worse version of the things they didn’t like about TSPLOST they’ll never understand simple logic.

I’ll spell it out for the no voters who are able to read past 2 sentences.

-You don’t trust government – Your ‘no’ vote just gave more money and control to government with even less oversight.
-You didn’t like the projects developed through years of study and research by traffic professionals – Your ‘no’ vote just put project selection in the hand of somebody who has zero transportation experience. And you won’t know how much they cost. LOL.
-You thought it was too much money at this time in our economy. – Your ‘no’ vote just guaranteed traffic will not get any better and now you’ll waste more time (time = money remember) sitting in traffic and you’ll spend more money on fuel/tolls.

Again, well done. You’ve voted for a worse version of the things you didn’t like about TSPLOST.

zeke

August 1st, 2012
1:27 pm

once a penal colony, always…….

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
1:31 pm

@ Middle of the Road August 1st, 2012 11:26 am

Explain to me then why there is more office space in 3 CBD in ATL (downtown, Midtown, and Buckhead) than in the entire suburban market? Why are there condos, apartments, and new major infill projects going on all over the city but barely nothing going on in the burbs?

I agree MARTA doesn’t go to the Braves stadium as far as rail but where else to people want to go that MARTA rail doesn’t? Emory? Oh that was lost with the T-SPLOST. South Dekalb? Oh, that was also lost indirectly with the T-SPLOST. Cobb, Gwinnett, and Clayton? Oh, they chose not to support MARTA so they didn’t get service. Wait I know, up 400. Darn it, also lost with the failure of the T-SPLOST.

Where else doesn’t MARTA rail go that it should? And even with that trains are still packed during all times. There are definitely times when there are less people but 500,000 people a day don’t lie. Especially when the service area is only covering about 2 million!

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
1:33 pm

@ Ga Values August 1st, 2012 11:30 am

Great to see you are still pushing Atlanta into the backwoods, which is probably where you stay.

marl745

August 1st, 2012
1:34 pm

Can they explain the $636M appropriated from the stimulus fund and why they felt the need to sell us on a $7.2 billion tax? This stinks of corruption & greed!! http://stimulus.georgia.gov/

marl745

August 1st, 2012
1:36 pm

Let me correct myslef. Almost $1B has been already been AWARDED to fund transportation from the stimulus. This is as of 2011. Does anyone see something wrong here??? http://stimulus.georgia.gov/transportation

dre

August 1st, 2012
1:36 pm

Really happy to see Deal fail. Anything he is for, I am against…and I am a republican!

Wutehvah

August 1st, 2012
1:39 pm

Bryan — MARTA supporter…

Hey, I’m with you. TSPLAT didn’t address the transit/rail push that’s needed. ATL as a whole is the reason other areas have grown with great success, my point was that Alpharetta/Milton tax dollars are HUGE for Fulton county and the downtown area. Believe me, I venture out of my northern burb plenty – but I would venture more if we had a better transit system. I’m not a fan of sitting in traffic when I don’t need to.

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
1:39 pm

@ S12C4131 August 1st, 2012 11:38 am

MARTA doesn’t go to Turner Field cause it was never in the plans to do so. Nothing to do with the olympics.

ATL doesn’t have major attractions?! GA Aquarium, the largest in the world. World of Coca Cola, nothing like it in the world, MLK Memorial… I don’t know of another MLK civil rights leader that lived, do you? Heck, even Underground Atlanta is still a major tourist attraction.

And funny you say MARTA downtown attractions don’t connect because it sure seems like there is a streetcar line that is trying to connect them that everyone is fussing about.

Specializer

August 1st, 2012
1:43 pm

For those of you saying a ‘no’ vote for T-SPLOST means we have less control and get a worse version I disagree. Instead of our elected officials shirking their responsibilities and punting to the voters we can now hold them responsible as the political system intended. We live in a Republic, NOT a Democracy. The people are not supposed to decide on issues. We are supposed to decide on who can best make those decisions in representation of their constituents. Now our “leaders” must decide how to prioritize and budget, just like the rest of us.
A region-wide SPLOST effort by our elected representatives is intellectually dishonest and an admission they are more worried about their political stature and position than serving those they represent.

Hayek

August 1st, 2012
1:49 pm

“Bryan — MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
12:05 pm
@ Hayek August 1st, 2012 10:55 am

There could easily be express buses added from Douglas county that travel I-20 East to I-285 North to the Perimeter. Once there use local buses to get where they need to go, which are already there.

There was even a proposal for light rail from Doraville to Cumberland. If MARTA rail was extended in both Cobb and Gwinnett someone easily could commute to a rail station and travel to transfer to the I-285 light rail and get to where they needed to go, with the use of local transit once in the county they were going”

-And it would take as much or more time for that individual to make it to work. no?

In any case I have yet to read any statement from a traffic engineer which said this plan as presented was going to shave significant time off our commutes. IIRC it was something like 2 minutes per commuter. ROI seems a little low don’t you think?

Bryan -- MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
1:50 pm

@ Wutehvah August 1st, 2012 1:39 pm

Please read my post on page 6 — August 1st, 2012 11:22 am

While I also agree that Alpharetta/Sandy Springs/Milton definitely contribute it’s nothing compared to ATL as a whole. That’s my argument with a lot of OTP folks. They enjoy the burb life and I’m all for that if that’s what you want. Just they don’t understand that we are still one region and should be working together. They think THEIR areas just grew into these nice burbs out of no where.

Specializer

August 1st, 2012
1:54 pm

And how about instead of 8 billion for congestion “bandages”, let’s focus on the actual issue no one talks about: making the Urban Atlanta Area desirable again. Instead of fixing a symptom, fix the problem. Make living in Atlanta desirable and people will return in droves. Until then everything else is just a band-aid, and I will happily keep commuting 1 hour each way to suburbia.

BLAH!!! BLAH!!!! BLAH!!!!!!!

August 1st, 2012
1:58 pm

TODD-LAWRENCEVILLE

Thank You!!!! You took the words right out of my mouth!!!!!!!!! Great Comment

Tech

August 1st, 2012
1:59 pm

Mike,
That is pretty funny but actually most of the people making minimum wages are not sitting in bumper to bumper traffic. They are local. or they take the bus, or they walk to work, or they take Marta. The people sitting in traffic actually make a decent income and can still afford to pay for gas and keep their cars on the road.

An example:
If anyone is getting on the highway they probably have more than 30 or so miles to drive each way, or they’d use the back roads. 60 miles a day for a week would be 300 miles a week. (60 x 5).
Say they drive a car that gets 18mpg…let’s give them the benefit of the doubt 20mpg. That’s without traffic. Add traffic and that mpg probably drops to 15… that means @ 300miles a week it would cost them ~$256 a month to commute (300 miles / 15mpg = 20 gallons; 20 gallons * ~3.20 = $64 a week in gas *4 = $256 per month) That’s just to commute. I’d add another $50 just for everything else…conservatively.

Some one making $10/h is probably working about 30 hours a week so the company doesn’t have to give them benefits or insurance… = $300 a week… and probably $255 after taxes with the most deductions… so @ $1020 a month…(which is probably being generous) gas would be > 1/4 of their total income. Bad economics. This is why I don’t think the $10 folks are the majority of people on the roads…I could be wrong…

Middle of the Road

August 1st, 2012
1:59 pm

“Secondly, the project was to improve traffic for the people who live here, provide jobs for the people who live here, to improve the quality of life for the people who live here, and to allow for grow for new people who will live here, who should pay for it the magical traffic elves??”

By “here” I presume you mean Atlanta. Just a suggestion about who should pay for it – how about those who “live here”. (i.e. not us in the suburbs that don’t “live here”)

Hayek

August 1st, 2012
2:03 pm

@PLAN B—HA!

The problem with the plan is that is lacked vision. It didn’t contain anything which would address sprawl or create SIGNIFICANT improvements in congestion. This is why very few if any transportation engineers publicly supported the project.

Tune Gal

August 1st, 2012
2:13 pm

Middle of the Road is right. While there are road projects needed outside of the metro Atlanta area, when you start talking about traffic jams and gridlock, that’s an Atlanta problem.
I actually chose to work near where I live, thank you very much.
The people who choose to live in the burbs and drive to work in Atlanta and use 85, 75, 400, etc. should pay for it.

Tech

August 1st, 2012
2:14 pm

Middle of the road,
Do you live in Atlanta? And when I say Atlanta, I am referring to the Metro area commonly referred to as “Atlanta”. I.e. where you would tell someone that you live – that doesn’t live here. I.e. “I live in Atlanta, or just outside of Atlanta…” Do you travel on any of the roads associated with Atlanta?? 285/85/75/20? Any of the local roads that connected to any of those highways? Let me guess you voted “No”? Like I said earlier…critical thinking and intellectual curiosity and rigor is really the problem in Atlanta…not enough of it. Too much short sightedness.

Hayek

August 1st, 2012
2:14 pm

@Specializer

Bingo. I would opine that most middle-income families (2 parents, kids) only live in City of Atl because they must not because they want to. I find it funny that some of the ITP crowd think if we OTP were more than willing to live in a 40-60 yr old 1,200 sq/ft single family home for twice cost of our current home that we’d somehow “get it”.

Puerile Pedant

August 1st, 2012
2:18 pm

So the Deal, the Empty Suit, is going to step into a vacuum?

What are the metaphysical implications of that? Nothingness?

Puerile Pedant

August 1st, 2012
2:19 pm

Actually Hayek, we the “ITP crowd” don’t think of you at all.

Enjoy your car.

Tech

August 1st, 2012
2:21 pm

Mostly what both you Middle of the Road, and Tune Gal fail to realize is that you living just outside of Atlanta and the traffic that is generated by Atlanta are inextricably connected in one way or the other. It is irresponsible to move to Atlanta benefit from being here and then not expecting to be a part of any solution. It’s really not that difficult to think these things through. It’s not a you or me issue, it’s an us issue. When it comes down to it many of you people are just plain selfish. That’s really the bottom line…

Good Grief

August 1st, 2012
2:22 pm

@ Tech and Plan B – HA! -
No I think you pretty much covered everything. Also, props to you both for finding the need to belittle opponents of the plan.

How could I be so blind as to not see how passing TSPLOST would’ve magically opened up the roads overnight? How could I not trust government to do such great things as “road improvements?”

Mike

August 1st, 2012
2:26 pm

@Tech,

You completely missed my point and typed a bunch of useless mumbo jumbo to make a point. People are going to have to string 2-3 of these low wage, dead end jobs together to make a living.

Tech

August 1st, 2012
2:27 pm

And Tune Gal and Middle of the road,
I can almost guarantee that the company that you work for benefits from the society that is Atlanta, so when you inaccurately point out that this is an ITP vs OTP problem and that the two are not connected, it’s mostly a delusional response…

Good Grief

August 1st, 2012
2:28 pm

Tech @ 2:14 -
“Do you live in Atlanta? And when I say Atlanta, I am referring to the Metro area commonly referred to as “Atlanta”
____
Just a quick question: When you say “Metro area commonly referred to as “Atlanta,” are you actually talking about Metro Atlanta? Or are you establishing an arbitrary boundary of “Atlanta” separate from the City Limits of Atlanta or Metro Atlanta?

Tech

August 1st, 2012
2:33 pm

@Mike, What are the maximum number of hours in a day that one would be able to work? Think about it. It’s not that hard.

I didn’t miss your point. I think you missed your point. Think about the economics of it.

Tech

August 1st, 2012
2:35 pm

Tune Gal

August 1st, 2012
2:38 pm

Tech—and you would be wrong. So much for the guarantee.

Tech

August 1st, 2012
2:39 pm

Good grief,
No one said anything would happen overnight. Not sure why you would assume that. As far as belittling…if you feel that pointing out facts, the lack of judgement and lapse of understanding of the opponents of…progress hurt your feelings then you totally missed what this was all about.

Tech

August 1st, 2012
2:40 pm

Tune Gal,
Put some skin in the game. What does your company do? What is their product? If I’m wrong I will gladly admit it.

Philman

August 1st, 2012
2:42 pm

Anyway people… We americans don’t want to pay taxes, no taxes no government help.. no defense no transportation etc…A good example: The HOT lane, it is always empty, good for me I am getting to work faster than ever and I do not spent to much $ on gas, because I don’t stay in traffic!!! Wake up Georgians, let’s move on…

Hayek

August 1st, 2012
2:43 pm

@Puerile Pedant

Likewise. Enjoy your WW2 era SFD with untold layers of lead based paint, asbestos siding, medicore insulation, high property taxes, and irrelevant public school system.

Good Grief

August 1st, 2012
2:54 pm

@ Tech -
I’m sorry that I’m wasting your patience on this topic. I suppose it is my fault for being an OTPer that doesn’t understand how we’re all in this together. I had no idea that the stretch of Peachtree Industrial from Buford to Duluth was considered “Atlanta.” Actually, I’m sorry that you bought into GDOT’s and the TSPLOSTs supporters vague notion of “road improvements” as a good issue to spend money on. Especially in a down economy with withering house values, I’m sure taking more money out of the peoples hands seems a great idea.

And your comment that “no one said anything would happen overnight…” Sure, they might not have said it in such explicit terms, but the proponents I talked with acted as though this was a magical potion that would save Atlanta traffic. This whole debate has centered on Atlanta and how Atlanta traffic would be saved. I drive 27 miles one way to work, down I-985 then GA20 then Peachtree Industrial. I haven’t been inside the Perimeter since the Thrashers left town. For me, personally, this was not an Atlanta issue. I looked at the project list, and everything touted on the list was so vague it was not hard to see corruption seeping in. If you were okay with such vague definitions as what GDOT and the TSPLOST website provided, then good on you. I couldn’t accept their terms, hence my NO vote.

Barry Hopkins

August 1st, 2012
3:08 pm

People are saying….we don’t trust the government to manage any more of our money. It’s loud and clear. Hear the message, Georgia politicians….and those of you who don’t like it….just get over it. More to come.

marl745

August 1st, 2012
3:13 pm

Im going to post this again….Almost $1B has been already been AWARDED to fund transportation from the stimulus. This is as of 2011. Does anyone see something wrong here??? Why hasnt this money been distributed appropriately to help w/ the traffic issue. They cant use this to help, and expected us to fork over $7B more??? http://stimulus.georgia.gov/transportation

Tech

August 1st, 2012
3:23 pm

@Good Grief,
The definition of Metro Atlanta is the definition. I didn’t make it up. That’s not my wiki page. And there are 1000’s of other Metro Areas around the US, so I’m sorry if you didn’t understand what that meant.

BTW, you’re not wasting my patience, you’re just not seeing the logic. Like for example, you say we shouldn’t ask people to contribute in a down economy. So I guess we should wait for the economy to magically get better before we start asking people to contribute to help make the economy better. Right?

The project list went out 10 years until 2022…I’m pretty sure that signals that its not going to happen overnight…

It doesn’t matter whether you come inside the perimeter or not. Read my many posts above about Atlanta Metro area and how it’s interconnected…SMH.

What’s funny Good Grief is that I telecommute. I work from home. So most of the traffic doesn’t even affect me, but I know this is good for Atlanta and voted yes.

Wutehvah

August 1st, 2012
3:24 pm

Good question marl745…

What about the ad valorem tax? Gas tax?? GA 400 tolls?? What are those funds used for today??

Tech

August 1st, 2012
3:35 pm

Tech

August 1st, 2012
3:37 pm

@Barry The government is made up of people. I agree that this issue has really come down to a question of fiscal responsibility. How do we fix it? We vote these folks in. What needs to change beside the quality of people that run for office?

Ga Values

August 1st, 2012
3:39 pm

Bryan — MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
1:33 pm

Below are Shady Deal’s comments in Covington today. You might start looking for a job right now. Scott is on her way OUT.

Deal said he was not inclined to make increased funding of MARTA a priority.

“MARTA needs to be fixed, and before the taxpayers are going to spend any more money on MARTA, I think they’ve also sent a message that they’re not going to put more money into something they perceive is not functioning appropriately with the revenue that’s available,” he said. “I’m sure that’s a discussion that will occur during the next legislative session. ”

http://www.ajc.com/news/deal-rejects-possibility-of-1488952.html

Specializer

August 1st, 2012
3:40 pm

@Puerile Pedant Exactly the type of reply I would expect. Instead of acknowledging an issue you throw out an emotional retort. Excellent plan for moving forward.
ITP and OTP are inexorably intertwined without question. However you can not argue the fact only approx. 9% of Metro Atlanta residents reside inside the city limits. Expanding that to all of ITP, I’d guess maybe 20% to 30%, but have no figures to support, only a guess. Both require the other. However that doesn’t mean one should bleed the other dry.

@ Hayek – Exactly my point. Lived all over this town for over 40 years, both ITP and OTP. Went OTP for good when I had kids 8 years ago. Why??? Better schools, better services, nicer communities, less crime, more value for my dollar – plain and simple. The trade-off is 2 hours in the car a day, but a choice I make for quality of life.

Simple solution…. give people a reason to move back ITP and they will. Congestion decreases.
Asking for more money so cities and counties that have driven themselves into the ground through corruption and mis-management can continue in their ill-conceived ways……. yeah you are going to get a fight every time. People are tax weary, no matter the issue. Time for government to live within their means like the rest of us.

marl745

August 1st, 2012
3:43 pm

@Tech. Thank you for the article. most of the stimulus money being spent on resurfacing seems a bIt, uh, WASTEFUL!!!!

Specializer

August 1st, 2012
3:56 pm

@Tech What needs to change is holding them accountable. We elect them to represent US, their constituents. They are supposed to get together, review the facts, weigh the support and impact and make a decision…… not punt it to a popular vote so they can lay responsibility elsewhere when it doesn’t go as planned. Being a politician is supposed to be a civic duty and honor, in service of your fellow citizens, not a career path to early retirement and kick-backs.

Tech

August 1st, 2012
3:57 pm

@marl745 You’re welcome.

I agree it does seem wasteful. It will only get worse with more congestion on the roads. As we put more and more cars on the roads they will have to resurface at a faster pace. I don’t know what that pace becomes but its pure physics. More cars, more wear and tear, more of a need to resurface. Which leads to traffic congestion going through those areas….

Steve

August 1st, 2012
4:29 pm

It’s simply about trust…and the voters of this state (and every other for that matter) don’t trust politicians from either side of the isle. Their intent may have been noble and it may have well been from the “bottom up” proposals, but the train that is our trust in government has long left the station…

Puerile Pedant

August 1st, 2012
4:32 pm

Poor little Hayek — did I hurt your feelings?

Type all the invective about people who live inside Atlanta. That kind of talk is not going to make anyone move to the suburbs and Enjoy Your Car. Maybe get some books on tape to improve your narrow mind:)

Puerile Pedant

August 1st, 2012
4:41 pm

Hey Specializer — So Hayek makes generalizations about people who live in-town and you find that reasonable?

That’s laughable. When I moved to this city 25 years ago the folks in the suburbs hated intown people and vice versa. Nothing has changed. When I see someone like Hayek spewing hate for people who live in-town, I get right down to their level because that is what they understand, not “live and let live” talk. Its OK with me if y’all stay in the Burbs as the old joke goes:

What is the quickest way to Alabama from Little Five Points?

Answer: 20 miles in any direction. Once you go outside of 285, its all Alabama.

Specializer

August 1st, 2012
5:13 pm

@Puerile Pedant Yes I do find it reasonable, especially when compared to your puerile and pedantic diatribes (yeah I catch on fast). It is reasonable because it is true as far as my observations show. Spewing hate? Show me the hate in “I find it funny that some of the ITP crowd think if we OTP were more than willing to live in a 40-60 yr old 1,200 sq/ft single family home for twice cost of our current home that we’d somehow “get it”. ” Where is the denigration, the hostility, the vile? It’s a statement of observation, and in my opinion a true one, as you yourself have proven.
I have no hatred for ITP’ers, but I do resent the pervasive sentiment that I am somehow the enemy because I moved OTP for a better life as opposed to staying in a steadily decaying environment with laughable leadership. I resent the implication I am the problem, instead of acknowledging the true source of the problem – inept, corrupt and reprehensible leadership that drove people to Suburbia for the last 40 years instead of working to grow the ITP population.
You can keep L5P. Used to be cool, not so much anymore. And while you are at it, grow up and make intelligent arguments and statements instead of whining like a child not getting their way.

Kat

August 1st, 2012
5:14 pm

Some of the projects weren’t worth pursuing. As for the person calling Chip Rogers a genuis..Darn right he is! Hopefully he’ll run for President eventually

LOLA

August 1st, 2012
6:02 pm

Where is the stimulus money? Oh yeah, brilliant Leadership decides not to use “all of the funds”. Well get out of my pockets for your lack of leadership. People Wake UP! It can’t get any better when someone gives you a bill to vote against your best interest for 10 years and they are already showing you “hotlanes” in Gwinnett that don’t work, TOLLS on 400 that have been paid and are still paying with no accountability of where those funds are going, Property tax and gas taxes already higher than other regions with better amenities….How is that RED STATE working for you? Also isn’t it against Republican Principle to raise taxes? What a contradictory state we find ourselves in? FULL SUPPORT PRESIDENT OBAMA 2012: Educate yourselves; they are asking you to pay for their inept leadership: http://stimulus.georgia.gov/ and http://www.whitehouse.gov/progressreports/GEORGIA/

CashO

August 1st, 2012
6:40 pm

has nathan had his millions in debt paid off by a connected “friend” yet? It’s a matter of time.

martaplan

August 1st, 2012
6:44 pm

“MARTA doesn’t go to Turner Field cause it was never in the plans to do so. Nothing to do with the olympics.”

one of the dumbest decisions in the history of transportation—not locating either the field near a marta stop or a marta stop near the field. The field’s in a bad area, with nothing to do, no restaurants, no bars, nothing—great planning by the crooks who came up with that idea—very typical atlanta.

kasim want his

August 1st, 2012
6:49 pm

maynard, bill and shirley lined their pockets with atlanta tax money on fraud and pork—now kasim want his money for his family and connections–he mad about not getting hold of these billions. Where he supposed to get his money now????

Robert

August 1st, 2012
7:24 pm

look, we have problems with the traffic and our mass transit.there always plan B to get it right.come on, t-splost is not worth it anymore now.we need to fix MARTA or else-change the system name to-MAT-Metro Atlanta Transit! everybody, can you say MAT now. Metro Atlanta Transit is coming!

CATA!

August 1st, 2012
7:35 pm

change marta to CATA: corrupt atlanta transportation authority–it’s a better fit.

Tim

August 2nd, 2012
1:00 am

“Bryan — MARTA supporter

August 1st, 2012
9:33 am

“Here’s why the T-SPLOST failed. Because of comments like Tim August 1st, 2012 1:02 am

Uninformed people. The Ga 400 tolls were nothing like the T-SPLOST because there was no limit set on how long the tolls would be in place. There were limits set by law with the T-SPLOST.

Also the HOT lanes were force upon commuters. We had the option to vote on this. Enjoy your plan B no voters!”

First of all, you should know that the Ga 400 toll was only supposed to be collected until the road was payed for. That happened several years ago. And why would a “Marta Supporter” be in favor of T-SPLOST? The T-SPLOST kept restrictions on MARTA, and they wrote into the law that MARTA could not use any of the money for operations. The 50/50 rule still applied. It was the only transit agency in the state that the T-SPLOST had this restriction on, the GRTA could use T-SPLOST money for operations.

[...] Riley, a governor’s arch of staff, told a Atlanta Journal-Constitution on Wednesday that Deal called his initial event with a state’s tip travel officials to plead [...]

Tim

August 2nd, 2012
1:16 am

This blog really annoys me.

You submit your comment, and then it doesn’t get posted. If your post contains certain words (not even profanity) then it wont go through. It’s just absurd.

Tim

August 2nd, 2012
1:19 am

@Bryan– Marta supporter

I would love for you to go out to south Dekalb, and tell them they were wrong for voting down T-SPLOST. Remember, they have been supporting MARTA for 40 years, and never got rail. Now they are supposed to pay 2 cents on every dollar for transportation, and still would not get a rail line. They would have been misguided to vote for this. And spare me with the nonsense about it’s not a 2% tax. Since you want to play semantics, I’ll break it down for you:

1 cent Marta tax + 1 cent T-splost tax = 2 cent transportation tax. (and still no MARTA) Get it?

I guess they were supposed to pay for your wasteful Emory line and the Atlanta Beltline Real Estate Gentrification Scam, while being left out in the cold. You direct all your anger towards the people who had the common sense to vote down this pork-filled, road-builder corporate welfare T-SPLOST, when you should be upset at the people who compiled the project list.