Your morning jolt: One-third of early voters supported TSPLOST, says poll
Only a third of early metro Atlanta voters supported the transportation sales tax, according to the firm that conducted a general poll for Channel 2 Action News last week.
Rosetta Stone Communications, a GOP-oriented political service firm, last night polled 656 randomly selected early voters in the 10-county TSPLOST district. Support was measured at 32 percent.
As of last Thursday, 123,870 early votes had been cast – we should have updated numbers that include Friday’s ballots by sometime this morning.
Last week, Kevin Ross and Paul Benacke, Strategists for the Untie Atlanta campaign said that, while discouraging, recent polls don’t measure the new voters their campaign has driven to the polls. Wrote the pair:
The campaign sampled 5,991 out of the 33,551 absentee voters and we are winning 57 percent to 43 percent; furthermore, the campaign sampled 5,681 out of the 71,298 early voters and we are winning 53 percent to 47 percent.
The Rosetta Stone findings would appear to contradict that.
“The math is simple, and the results are clear” said John Garst of Rosetta Stone. “The TSPLOST was badly defeated in the early voting period.”
Margin of error for the automated Rosetta Stone poll was placed at +/- 3.8 percentage points.
In an AJC survey released Sunday, 51 percent of likely voters said they would reject the 1 percent sales tax.
***
Are you an active and engaged voter? The AJC is building its election contacts list and would like to connect with voters who are willing to be quoted in news stories. If you are willing to speak “on the record” with a reporter about your politics and voting decisions, please complete a short questionnaire by clicking here. We’ll add you to our contact list and reach out to you for stories between now and November. Nothing in the questionnaire will be used without a follow-up call.
***
No doubt the timing of this piece of news below is aimed at Tuesday balloting. From Jim Burress and WABE (90.1FM):
In a letter addressed to Attorney General Eric Holder, Ga NAACP chapter president Edward DuBose says the Georgia Department of Transportation engages in “willful” acts of discrimination against African-American and other minority-owned businesses.
DuBose says G-DOT’s own internal audit confirms the charges, and asks for the Department of Justice to investigate.
***
Then again, the Newnan Times-Herald brings word of an opposing position: The group 100 Black Men of Atlanta has endorsed the TSPLOST.
***
You know that this is a “have-to” – not a “want to” for the White House. From the New York Times:
Former President Bill Clinton is set to play a central part in the Democratic convention, aides said, and will formally place President Obama’s name into nomination by delivering a prime-time speech designed to present a forceful economic argument for why Mr. Obama deserves to win a second term.
***
In additional excerpts released by ABC News from its overseas interview with Mitt Romney, the GOP presidential candidate was unable to say whether he ever paid a lower tax rate than the 13.9 percent he paid in 2010. Via the Los Angeles Times:
“I haven’t calculated that. I’m happy to go back and look, but my view is I’ve paid all the taxes required by law,” Romney [said].
Romney’s 13.9% rate falls far below rates typically applied to those with incomes approaching the $20.1 million he made in 2010.
“I know that I pay a very substantial amount of taxes, and every year since the beginning of my career so far as I can recall,” he later added.
***
Voters in northeast Georgia today will find this message from former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin on their home answering machines:
”If you agree that it’s time our elected officials stop talking at us and start listening to us, then I hope you’ll join me in supporting Martha Zoller for Congress. Martha’s running against the establishment, but with all of our support, she can win. Martha has been fighting for conservative causes for years. In addition to being pro-life and a firm defender of our Constitution, including our second amendment rights, Martha is a strong fiscal conservative…..”
Now, maybe it’s not a big deal, but in her message, Palin mispronounces the 9th District candidate’s name. The former radio talk show host’s name rhymes with “collar.” Palin pronounced it “Z-owe-ller.”
- By Jim Galloway, Political Insider
For instant updates, follow me on Twitter, or connect with me on Facebook.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
234 comments Add your comment
Ga Values VOTE NO FOR WASTE, GRAFT & CORRUPTION
July 30th, 2012
9:16 am
I’m 1st & the name says it all..
Bill from Atlanta
July 30th, 2012
9:21 am
Concur with you Ga Values…let the splost go down in flames!!
Out by the Pond
July 30th, 2012
9:31 am
I have some sad news for the Tsplost supporters. I was polled about my position and knowing that it was the pro people calling I lied and told them I supported the tax. Childish action, but they called me.
the cat
July 30th, 2012
9:32 am
Why would former President Clinton’s speech at the convention be deemed a have to instead of a want to? Clinton remains popular and remember during his term was the era of peace and prosperity for all. Then the republicans ruined it all.
Cutty
July 30th, 2012
9:34 am
I voted no as well, but for different reasons. Why should MARTA get the shaft by the state, while I have to subsidize the suburbanites commute into the city via GRTA? Those buses clog downtown streets during rush hour and someone thought it acceptable for me to help pay for it. Hell no. When MARTA gets the same respect then we can talk.
Astropig
July 30th, 2012
9:35 am
T-Splost is lost up here in NW Georgia also. The only people that seem to support it are the ones that will ladle the gravy and the paid hacks that are on a retainer to make it happen. It might get a percentage or two higher in our region,but if it breaks 40% statewide, I’ll be astonished.
Q:What is bright yellow and sleeps 4 ?
A: A GDOT truck !
Ed
July 30th, 2012
9:39 am
Did anyone else notice in the commercials where the seatbelts tie-up the drivers that each car had only one person in it. If everybody carpooled,there would be no need for T-SPLOST. I was amazed that one of the people at the support rally this weekend said “we know that some of the money will be mismanaged, but some of the money will go to ease traffic” and they were serious.
yellowdog
July 30th, 2012
9:43 am
totally agree with the cat; p.s. im voting yes; romney did not say anything new about israel that the prez has not said many times over; its politically the thing to do for all. far as his taxes are concerned, hes lying; just release them and let us get on with the business of who is best qualified to be president; no contest far as im concerned; if bill clinton ran today, he would win hands down. p.s. reverend lowery is also voting yes on tsplost. lets stop this stupidity and move atlanta into the 21st century. otherwise its all for naught. we have heard from everyone important in this city; and the gop nosayer are at it again they have nothing to add to anything but NOOOOOO. we will suffer if tax not approved and stay a second rate place to live.
Marlboro Man
July 30th, 2012
9:44 am
Traffic is killing jobs.
luangtom
July 30th, 2012
9:45 am
With the mismanagement of the current monies by MARTA, why should state-wide tax-payers want to allocate $665-million to them in TSPLOST? Law dictates that they receive no new money for maintenance or current infrastructure, yet their own list of projects include these. C’mon voters, say NO to giving funds to the MARTA to no-where. Why do only 3.6% of all commuters use MARTA now if it is such a good idea? Vote NO…..
Curly Copple
July 30th, 2012
9:45 am
I guess all you dimwits will continue to sit on the freeway in traffic and spend a month of your year in your car. Time that could be spent with your family, friends or something more fun than sitting in traffic. Doesn’t bother me. I live 5 miles from my Midtown job in my Buckhead condo. I don’t do yard work. I don’t sit in traffic. You folks in Cherokee, Cobb, Henry, Gwinnett have your heads up your proverbial rear.
hiram
July 30th, 2012
9:46 am
Video about Rudy Bowen(DOT Board Chairman) from yesterday’s thread, that everyone should watch before voting on tsplost:
http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/video?clipId=7081871&autostart=true
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
9:49 am
Marta will not be final authority in money management. They will report to the Georgia Finance Commission. Same for GDOT.
Curly Copple
July 30th, 2012
9:49 am
@Cutty, MARTA is the only mass-transit organization in the country that doesn’t receive state funding. GA is obsessed with roads and it makes no sense. Traffic will never get better until people learn that they need to not rely on their cars so much and get their fat suburbanite butts off of the couch and WALK.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
9:51 am
@ Hiram, that video is over a year old and has nothing to do with TSPLOST.
the cat
July 30th, 2012
9:52 am
Curly-walking would be wonderful if I lived a block or 2 from my office. I guess I could start out at midnight and walk the 9 miles to my office to arrive by 8am but don’t think I will try it. You make no sense at all. Voting NO
td
July 30th, 2012
9:52 am
Curly Copple
July 30th, 2012
9:45 am
If you do not sit in traffic then why do you care?
Marlboro Man
July 30th, 2012
9:53 am
Tolls NO WAY JOSE.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
9:54 am
You all would be the same ones to vote no to invest in an airport in the 1970’s. Thank God you weren’t around. Otherwise we’d be Birmingham right now.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
9:55 am
If you vote ‘no’ you are guaranteeing an increased fuel tax and more tolls. All of which will cost you more than 1% AND will not be monitored by a Citizen Review Panel or independent annual audits.
allen981
July 30th, 2012
9:56 am
I’m voting no in part because my employer told me to vote yes. But more than that, this ill-conceived plan will have zero impact on traffic over the next five years, yet there are dozens of projects that could be completed in 18 months that would have a dramatic impact in key areas.
It also includes some ludicrous plans for trains; there is zero need for a light rail line from Cumberland to downtown.
Oh, and hey Curly, wish I were as smart as you…wait, I am smarter than you. I have a zero minute commute most days, and I live on 3 acres in Sharpsburg. I sit on my deck, listen to the birds chirp, drink a diet Coke, and carry on a full work day right at my house…I’ll slip out for a quick 18 at the golf course 5 minutes away around 10, then come back around 2, have a bit of lunch, and work til 6.
Astropig
July 30th, 2012
9:58 am
“If you vote ‘no’ you are guaranteeing an increased fuel tax and more tolls. All of which will cost you more than 1% AND will not be monitored by a Citizen Review Panel or independent annual audits”
But no power on earth can get rid of the unelected wheeler dealers that will administer this thing. We can always vote out the politicians that raise our gas tax or such.
allen981
July 30th, 2012
9:58 am
If you vote no, you are guaranteeing that the politicians will come up with a better plan that includes execution of follow through on funding.
No one voted to invest in the airport, by the way. That was a decision made by the city of Atlanta alone, without the input of any other jurisdiction. And, it wasn’t done in the 70’s; William B. Hartsfield made that happen in the 50s.
the cat
July 30th, 2012
10:00 am
allen981-yup-my employer told me to vote yes too. Still voting NO.
Vote yes-stop drinking the koolaid. Citizen Review Panel-seriously?? LOL
allen981
July 30th, 2012
10:00 am
Here’s another thing that’s wrong with all of this – who says Birmingham isn’t better off????
Great town, great people, great way of life. Bigger/faster/more/larger is not an answer to a better way of life.
Curly Copple
July 30th, 2012
10:01 am
@The Cat, I make plenty of sense. The entire region is screwed up. 9 miles ain’t so bad. It’s the people that live in Acworth or somewhere and work downtown that are really the main problem. Everybody out in the burbs wants to keep doing the same ol thing and doesn’t even want to even entertain the idea of commuter-rail. Commuter rail works fine in San Fran, Chicago, NYC, every large city in Europe, etc. But legislators in GA want to give all state funding to roads. Which not only causes bad traffic but is seriously making a state that has a lot of beautiful country side really ugly.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:02 am
@the cat. Have you read HB 277?
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:03 am
Birmingham has way less job opportunity and financial success is far greater to achieve. It’s fine if you are content with being average.
allen981
July 30th, 2012
10:04 am
And, as far as the airport goes, ask the folks in Memphis, Minneapolis, and Cininnati about the wisdom of their airport investments.
Hubs that were once filled with flights have been shut down by (guess who) Delta. Dozens and dozens of once-active gates sit empty, with no realistic chance of ever being filled again. And the taxpayers are stuck with the bill.
That’s not happening in Birmingham, by the way.
jackie
July 30th, 2012
10:04 am
Oh yeah, yellowdog you are so right! We should definately vote to give the incompetent crooks who run these county, city, and local governments access to billions more of our tax dollars. We don’t have enough pork barrell, brother in law projects going on now. After all look at the wonderful management fiscal management shown by DeKalb, city of Atlanta, APS. etc. I’m sure they will be penny pinching stewards of the windfall tax money and everything would be on the up and up. Considering that there was no input from the general public or from engineers trained in transportation. Instead all these “improvement projects” were selected by politicians and beaureaucrats in order to line their pockets, reward their friends, and buy votes for reelection. I’m sure we can trust them and that they would never come back asking for an extension or increase in the tax in order to complete the projects they were only half compleated when the TSPLOST expired. I sure am looking forward to the major traffic relief that the belt line project will provide for the down town connector.
Don't think so
July 30th, 2012
10:05 am
My neighbor put a sign out in his yard supporting T-splost. He works for the DOT. Drives a new car every two years (DOT perk?).
Look who sits on the board of the new HOT Lane money grab – former DOT employees. Why don’t look into that Jim?
DD
July 30th, 2012
10:05 am
Traffic is not the primary job killer for the Atlanta area and GA it is taxes. This is a tax grab by politicians, public employees and business interest who will benefit at the public teet called TSPLOST. The money will disappear, projects will be mismanaged or never completed. They will ask for further tax increases to fund these projects and most importantly it will not ease the traffic burden. Atlanta is unlike most other metro areas in that it lacks state highways, boulevards etc where traffic signals are synchronized. There are very few non-stop thoroughfares (outside of the major arteries aside from the Istate system) with ramps that allow for ease of exit and entrance. The city grew quickly and without any forethought into solving this issue and now governmental entities and policitians who failed to plan adequately in the first place are preying on the desperate need to provide solutions by offering a magic bullet through public transit systems that no one will ride. Cities like Portland have spent hundreds of millions on public transit and the ridership percentage remains the same and the subsidies pile up. The goal should be to truly ease traffic congestion and not a temporary jobs bill or subsidy for businesses who will benefit.
Johns creek
July 30th, 2012
10:06 am
Why not use the hotel/motel tax to build the belt line instead of a new stadium for the falcons owner?
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:06 am
@jackie, the projects were chosen from a list that is on GDOT’s master plan. All of which were put on the list by transportation engineers.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:06 am
all of the road projects, that is.
oldfart
July 30th, 2012
10:06 am
Will the Republican leadership get the message if this lousy cop-out bill gets voted down in every “special district”? The TIA is drafted so poorly that the practicing attorneys among their midst will be happy anyway. Even if voted down every county in the state that has to pay 30% rather than 10% on local improvement grants will be challenging the constitutional basis of this monstrosity.
My fervent hope is that at least some good will come of this fiasco and more scrutiny will fall upon prioritization of GDOT projects, selection of DOT board members and selection of legislators that pick those DOT board members in secret. A pipe dream is that scrutiny would also fall on SRTA and its need to exist independent of GDOT especially with failed GDOT Commissioner Gena Evans at the helm.
allen981
July 30th, 2012
10:08 am
Very few people live in Acworth and work downtown. The northern 285 arc from I-75 to I-85 has double the jobs as downtown, yet the T-SPLOST does little to help that area.
Commuter rail is antiquated, cost prohibitive, inefficient (want to turn a 10 minute trip into a 40 minute trip? Take MARTA and wait on a train) and will prove useless as we 1), develop ever more efficient auotmobiles; and 2) increasingly telecommute.
The capital cost of train construction is unrealistic for the value returned. Why not just run a dedicated bus line?
Hmmmmmm
July 30th, 2012
10:09 am
@curly Copple
The legislators most likely give the money to the roads because they have a financial reason…. Nothing is done with any of these politicians without it lining their pockets… It’s delusional to think we have any leaders in office who really care about the good of the people… or our future transportation needs. Just vote NO!! When there are leaders in place that want to lead, and treat our tax money with the respect it demands, then I will consider additional taxes.
the cat
July 30th, 2012
10:10 am
Vote yes-you aren’t helping your team any to bring no voters around to your delusional way of thinking. It all comes down to trust and no one I know trusts anyone on the DOT or Deals’ good ole boys infrastructure who stand to make gazillions off pet projects.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:10 am
All of you that vote ‘no’ I hope you enjoy your Detroit of the South in a about 8 years. Anyone with any brains will relocate from this place and find a city that actually cares about addressing its issues.
Cutty
July 30th, 2012
10:10 am
@ Curly… That’s exactly why I’m voting no. The state gives nothing to MARTA but wants to control its finances. The TSPLOST will then make Fulton/Dekalb residents help pay for suburbanites commute into the city. Unfair to say the least so I voted no.
allen981
July 30th, 2012
10:10 am
This town has not built a major new road in more than 30 years; stop saying it’s all about roads, because that is inherently not the case. GA 400 was the last major project, and it’s already paid for.
What about a northern arc? Nothing would free up traffic like that would – nothing.
Reebok
July 30th, 2012
10:11 am
I’m voting No because in Cobb County, all projects except 2 are road projects…nothing for pedestrians, cyclists, or mass transit. Just keep on paving…which is what got us into this mess. Oh, the 2 projects that aren’t just roads? They are for McCullough airport in Kennesaw. Thanks, that’ll do wonders for my commute.
Curly Copple
July 30th, 2012
10:12 am
@Allen, the fact that you live in a dump like Sharpsburg and drink Diet Coke tells me how bright you are. Most of the metro-area doesn’t and can’t work from home.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:12 am
@the cat. YOU DON”T HAVE TO TRUST GDOT OR MARTA! THEY ARE NOT MANAGING THE MONEY OR THE SCHEDULES!!!
Don’t you understand how the law works? Have you even read it?
jackie
July 30th, 2012
10:12 am
VOTE YES!!!, those projects were cherry picked from a GDOT wish list by, you guessed it, politicians and bureaucrats!!!
The enemy within
July 30th, 2012
10:13 am
So 33.3% of people are clueless. What a shock. Thankfully 66.7% know better than to trust our failed state government and their DOT with more billions. Meanwhile I hear that everyone is going to be getting new plates with their tag renewal. Is this true?? What a complete waste of money. This government needs to be shut down.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:13 am
@Reebok, each county receives 15% from the money collected in that county to do projects like pedestrian improvements, bicycle lanes, etc.
allen981
July 30th, 2012
10:14 am
We care “Vote Yes” which is why we’re voting NO. We care deeply about this area (I’m a native by the way) and do not want to see the region and its citizens saddled with a poorly planned, open- ended fiscal fiasco that would create far more problems than it would solve.
This is a bad plan, pure and simple, that lacks action and accountablility.
I want the best for Atlanta, not the worst.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:14 am
@jackie, You are forgetting about the months of public meetings to help shape the list. Did you attend any??
Mike
July 30th, 2012
10:15 am
Curly Copple: do you know of any mass transit operations which are not heavily subsidized by taxpayers? And please don’t try to make worn out argument that MARTA takes riders off the road so it’s appropriate to subsidize it. If mass transit as practiced in Atlanta is such a good thing, why doesn’t it pay for itself? I have to pay for my gas, maintenance, etc.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:16 am
You all don’t care enough to even read the law before voting on it. Shameful. That reminds me of Nancy Pelosi with Obamacare. Something you all have such an issue with.
Byte me
July 30th, 2012
10:16 am
VOTE YES, I DON’T TRUST THE GOVERNMENT TO HANDLE THE MONEY! VOTE HELL NO!
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:17 am
@allen981, it has more accountability than any law out there. READ IT.
DannyX
July 30th, 2012
10:17 am
“Citizen Review Panel”
LOL!
That will be as effective as the “Georgia Government Transparency and Campaign Finance Commission.”
In other words, a total farce!
DD
July 30th, 2012
10:17 am
@VOTEYES, I grew up in the Detroit area and the regions failings have nothing to do with transportation. In fact, they have one of the most commuter friendly cities with multiple interstates connecting the city with the suburbs and outlying regions. They have thoroughfares with few stops going between the city and suburgs and around the suburban area and has not changed the demise of the City of Detroit.
PMC
July 30th, 2012
10:18 am
how is commuter rail antiquated Allen? It absolutely is in Atlanta but not everywhere else. A train every 20 minutes is not efficient. A train every 5 is. We just won’t pay for it.
Byte me
July 30th, 2012
10:18 am
I have read it. Will vote NO
td
July 30th, 2012
10:18 am
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:06 am
In the interest of fairness. Do you work for the DOT, Chamber of Commerce or CW Matthews?
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:18 am
48-8-250.
Not later than December 15 of each year, the state revenue commissioner shall publish, on the website created pursuant to paragraph (3) of subsection (c) of Code Section 48-8-245, a simple, nontechnical report which shows for each project in the investment list approved by the director the original estimated cost, the current estimated cost if it is not the original estimated cost, amounts expended in prior years, and amounts expended in the current year with respect to each such project. The report shall also include a statement of what corrective action the commissioner of transportation and the executive director of the Georgia Regional Transportation Authority intend to implement with respect to each project which is underfunded or behind schedule and a statement of any surplus funds which have not been expended for a project.
Breez
July 30th, 2012
10:18 am
If people moved closer to their jobs, there would not be a traffic problem. I live 5 mins from my job and get to work in 10 minutes. “just move”
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:19 am
@td. Absolutely not.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:19 am
@Breez…really, you make it seem like selling a house is so easy right now.
Hmmmmmm
July 30th, 2012
10:20 am
@td
Do you really expect a truthful answer…?
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:21 am
@hmmmmmm do you work for the chamber of commerce for Charlotte, Houston, Memphis, Denver, Nashville, or Tampa?
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:22 am
Because they would LOVE for this to fail.
Byte me
July 30th, 2012
10:23 am
Yea I bet they would. What a joke. How much money has already been spent trying to sell this crap?
pearl
July 30th, 2012
10:24 am
I’m one of those early voters who voted AGAINST TSPLOST. I fervently HOPE it fails. Raising our sales taxes one penny (in some counties, 2 pennies) is waaay too much money for the small benefits we would receive from the approval of this plan. Yes, bus and rail services are badly needed in some counties, but the way to fund that is NOT to stick already struggling taxpayers with higher food and clothing prices for the next 10 years, which is what an increased sales tax would do. Let the State come up with the money for bus and road services. Nathan Deal wasted too much money that he got from the federal government giving breaks to corporations which DID NOT NEED THEM. Put the pressure where it belongs — in the hands of the STATE to meet the needs of the people of Georgia. We will NOT be robbed to pay for responsibilities that belong to the State and counties. Let them find ANOTHER WAY.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:24 am
Again, if this fails the fuel tax will be increased. You will be sending MORE money to the government you don’t trust with less oversight than TSPLOST has. Please tell me how that makes sense?
Hmmmmmm
July 30th, 2012
10:24 am
@vote yes….
LOL, no, I am just a taxpaying American citizen who is FED up with politicians… You sir are either delusional or some how affiliated with a group trying to hood wink the tax payers of Georgia… Please get some help!
oldfart
July 30th, 2012
10:25 am
Actually the average voter is only expected to read the honeyed language on the ballot by its supporters. When you read the actual bill it is obvious to even a non-legal mind that this thing is totally UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
The only entities set aside by the State Constitution to levy taxes are the state itself, counties and cities. No mention of “special districts” where other counties can decide your county’s fate.
jackie
July 30th, 2012
10:25 am
Public meetings? You mean the get togethers where the politicians and bureaucrats told everyone what they wanted and basically ignored the input from ordinary citizens? Sure, that is why the belt line and whiz bang express buses in their dedicated lanes. (Are these dedicated lanes going to be created like the HOT lanes or will the pavement just magically fall down from the sky and connect Marietta and downtown Atlanta?)
the cat
July 30th, 2012
10:25 am
All the money spent on commercials, signs, arm twisting could probably have given all the school teachers the raise they deserve.
Vote yes-you are looking foolish and obviously stand to make $$$$ foff this.
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
10:29 am
“You folks in Cherokee, Cobb, Henry, Gwinnett have your heads up your proverbial rear.”
I live AND WORK north up 575. I work 8 miles from my house. I live in an area wher I can have a great yard, where the schools are good (not APS), and where I can leave my front door open without concern about a home invasion. If more businesses would leave the city of Atlanta, there would not be this congestion problem.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:29 am
@hmmmmmm. So because I have a differing opinion than you I am either delusional or work for someone that benefits from this???
How egotistical and pompous of you. Please get some help!
JB
July 30th, 2012
10:30 am
@luangtom @9:45, you said: “Law dictates that they receive no new money for maintenance or current infrastructure, yet their own list of projects include these. C’mon voters, say NO to giving funds to the MARTA to no-where. Why do only 3.6% of all commuters use MARTA now if it is such a good idea? Vote NO…..”
Actually, the law says MARTA can’t use the tax money for OPERATIONS, not maintenance or capital expenditures. And the reason only 3.6% of commuters use MARTA is because it has been so underfunded over the past decades that it has tilted all the incentives in this town towards driving. Who can rely on MARTA when bus/rail only comes every 20 minutes? That’s not MARTA’s fault, that the fault of a backwards, spiteful State legislature that controls MARTA’s purse while contributing nothing to it, and ignorant suburbanites constantly railing against MARTA while they pull in the pork for their bloated and ever-congested roads.
DC and SF got the same federal rail investment in the 1970s as Atlanta. Look how they cared for and grew their system in comparison. GA squandered a great opportunity because of outdated, spiteful policies and politics.
td
July 30th, 2012
10:30 am
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:16 am
You all don’t care enough to even read the law before voting on it. Shameful. That reminds me of Nancy Pelosi with Obamacare. Something you all have such an issue with.
I read the bill, I am a conservative and I am against the bill.
If you drive from Acworth (down 75) or from Sugar Hill (Down 85) to downtown every morning and it now takes you an average of 1:15 minutes each way. If we vote “YES” on this bill then tell us how much the commute will lessen?
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:31 am
@the cat, the only fool here is the one that thinks people with a different opinion or somehow being paid to think that way.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:31 am
*are
Byte me
July 30th, 2012
10:32 am
By time they build it your commute will be the same.
Don't think so
July 30th, 2012
10:33 am
Howl much money is the DOT mismanaging already? Let’s give them billions more – NOT. “Vote Yes” I agree with “the cat”, and thank you for letting us know to watch for a gas tax increase. Let’s vote them out of office.
td
July 30th, 2012
10:34 am
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:24 am
“Again, if this fails the fuel tax will be increased. ”
And you know this for a fact how? What is to say the politicians do not get the message of TEA (Taxed enough already) and figure out another way?
oldfart
July 30th, 2012
10:36 am
Yeah I’ve read the bill and can quote from it too.
Smaller counties grouped with a larger populated county have no control over their own destiny if the larger one passes the TIA but to pay the tax. But in the event they vote for the TIA and the larger one does not then their individual counties are still penalized by having to pay a higher match on any local maintenance and improvement grants (these typically utilize 15-20% of the state’s motor fuel tax revenues today). From HB277:
“(d) In the event a special district sales and use tax election is held and the voters in a special district do not approve the levy of the special district transportation sales and use tax, the local governments in such special district shall be required to provide a 30 percent match for any local maintenance and improvement grants by the Department of Transportation for transportation projects and programs for at least 24 months and until such time as a special district sales and use tax is approved.
In the event the voters in a special district approve the levy of the special district transportation sales and use tax, the local governments in such special district shall be required to provide a 10 percent match for any local maintenance and improvement grants by the Department of Transportation for transportation projects and programs for the duration of the levy of the special district transportation sales and use tax.”
So the fate of your own Constitutional tax district, the county, rests in the hands of an invented tax district that is not mentioned in the State Constitution. They’ve been glorifying the carrots all over the media and even flower it up on the ballot with no mention of the stick that will be applied until your unconstitutional district by God votes for the SPLOST every two years in perpetuity. Your county will have to pay a 30% match rather than a 10% one as it is today to access tax money you have paid outside of the purview of the SPLOST in motor fuel taxes. This is extortion, plain and simple.
allen981
July 30th, 2012
10:36 am
If rail is not antiquated, why did all the trolleys and streetcars disappear from Atlanta 50 years ago???? We had both, as well as local rail to places like Macon, LaGrange, Athens, Columbus, and Rome. BUT IT DIED because it was slow, inefficient, and didn’t meet the needs of the public.
Folks, we don’t live in Paris, London, or New York. We live in a city that thrived first as a rail hub – with more trains than any other city its size. Those trains went away – why? – because cars, like it or not, offer more mobility, freedom, convenience, and efficiency.
When I do go to an office, it’s a 40-mile ride. Takes me about 45 minutes. On a train, or even a bus, the time for that type of trip would double. How effective is that?
We are a city of roads and automobiles. You can’t change that now, and shouldn’t waste untold billions of taxpayer dollars trying.
Look at Atlanta’s history – trains don’t work!
JB
July 30th, 2012
10:37 am
Mike @10:15: “If mass transit as practiced in Atlanta is such a good thing, why doesn’t it pay for itself? I have to pay for my gas, maintenance, etc.”
And where do you think all those highways come from, the highway fairy? Why aren’t THOSE paying for themselves? And that’s exactly it – wouldn’t it be NICE not to HAVE to have a car and all the associated expenses that come with it? If transit were adequately available, it would reduce your personal costs – taxes may go up, but those would not cost nearly the amount per person that it costs to pay for gas, car maintenance, tolls etc. And what about people who can’t drive? The elderly, young, blind, disabled? They are supposed to be shut out of the economy b/c they can’t get anwhere? And then you’ll rail against those lazy entitlement queens that don’t work, right? UGH, Americans = so dumb, can’t connect the dots at all. Congrats to Republicans for gutting the education system, they’ve got just the voters they wanted.
DD
July 30th, 2012
10:37 am
The TSPLOST was supposed to be about reducing traffic congestion.
The Atlanta Regional Commission has conceded that the TSPLOST projects list will do little to reduce regional commute times. The ARC says they are defining “alleviating traffic congestion” as meaning increasing the number of people who can reach a point in the region within 45 minutes. The ARC has conceded that this has nothing to do with improving the flow of traffic, and that it will have an insignificant impact on reducing commute times. The reason that so many state legislators are now opposing the TSPLOST is that the projects list became a massive bait-and-switch. Most of the money, billions of dollars, is going to projects that will do little or nothing to improve the flow of traffic.
In public presentations on both July 12 and July 13, TSPLOST proponents said
* Light rail has NOTHING to do with reducing traffic congestion, and
* Light rail has NOTHING to do with moving people.
* Cities build light rail to promote economic development.
The Georgia Public Policy Foundation recently concluded that the TSPLOST projects list has “massive boondoggles that will put this state at a disadvantage for decades,“ and that “it would commit the region to wasteful spending on questionable projects for long past the 10-year sales tax.”
They also point out that rail transit is appropriate in places with very high population density. However Atlanta has the lowest population density of any major city in the world.
Express bus is the form of transit that can best meet the needs of a city that has low population density and widely dispersed employment centers.
Light rail will likely wind up being at least 50 times more expensive to implement than express bus, and light rail is also drastically more expensive to operate and maintain. The TSPLOST will obligate a huge amount of future transportation dollars for purposes that have nothing to do with improving traffic flow on our roads.
hiram
July 30th, 2012
10:37 am
The main issue is that Georgia is currently recognized as having the most corrupt government in the country, and given the opportunity to rectify that, by limiting their booty from lobbyists, they thumbed their noses at the citizens – they are too important to fail. The citizens shouldn’t contribute another dime in taxes until the entire state government it purged of the current politicians, both those elected and appointed.
Laughing so hard it hurts
July 30th, 2012
10:37 am
The TSPLOST supporters trying to make themselves look good thru the polling. The sad part of all this is really the Republicans in the Gold Dome how they worded it on the ballot and no one seems to be up in arms over that. That’s a disgrace and shame how the conservatives in this state got the measure on the ballot in the first place.
No one is denying the fact that more needs to be done to reduce congestion in urban and rural areas that have become clogged up. The DOT should have thought about that before they mismanaged money and that is a fact. When you don’t know where some 565 million dollars of money is that’s a big problem and the State Attorney Generals have failed to do their job by auditing them in a serious manner. Georgia is a joke…..
lol
July 30th, 2012
10:37 am
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
Hmmmmmm
July 30th, 2012
10:38 am
@ vote yes,
LOL, your funny… your rhetoric borders on the absurd… I am egotistical and pompous for pointing out the obvious … Ok, I’ll be egotistical and pompous, but I still want fiscal responsible politicians in office spending our tax dollars… I will not vote for another state tax increase until the day comes when politicians don’t think of me as a unlimited source of income… But hey, you go ahead and vote yes for more of the same corrupt madness… I’ll take any help I can get….
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
10:38 am
“Again, if this fails the fuel tax will be increased.”
And who has told you this? Even if it were true, I would rather that happen than a sales tax. If I don’t drive 50 miles one-way to work (which I don’t), I don’t have to pay gas tax. I would still have to pay sales tax to support all the other people.
DannyX
July 30th, 2012
10:39 am
TSPLOST is going to lose by a wide margin tomorrow.
It is obvious that our state politicians are totally out of touch with the people of this state. TSPLOST, ethics reform, and the new Falcons stadium are just a few examples of the disconnect.
A new poll shows 67% against using taxpayer money for a new stadium, only 23% back the plan. Unlike TSPLOST the stadium will not be put up for a vote and is just about a done deal.
Say what
July 30th, 2012
10:40 am
Laughing so hard it hurts.. funny you mention conservatives, but Mayor Reed is leading the pimping of this project and he is hardly a conservative.
JB
July 30th, 2012
10:41 am
allen981 @10:36: “Those trains went away – why? – because cars, like it or not, offer more mobility, freedom, convenience, and efficiency.”
No, it was because rail companies were private and had to acquire their own ROW and lay their own tracks. Highways and car companies were heavily subsidized by the government in the form of taxpayer-funded road building, without which cars would not have been able to offer “mobility, freedom, convenience, and efficiency.” Rail lines could not compete with a heavily subsidized competitor. It was NOT the free market at work; quite the opposite.
PMC
July 30th, 2012
10:41 am
Ok I understand your argument now Allen. Thanks for clarifying.
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
10:41 am
“And where do you think all those highways come from, the highway fairy? Why aren’t THOSE paying for themselves?”
Who says they AREN’T paying for themselves? They come from State and Federal GAS TAXES – levied on those that use them, not on everyone like sales taxes are.
Dazed and Confused
July 30th, 2012
10:43 am
Only in America…would people fail to support a President who is actively trying to lower taxes for the middle class, yet willing accept a new tax at the state level.
Kramer
July 30th, 2012
10:43 am
First off, I am voting yes for TSPLOST only because it COULD benefit the company I work for from a business standpoint. Second, for those who wonder why Clinton will be at the Dem convention. Do you really think that Bill or Hillary like the Obama’s? Oh hell no! Obama’s people blew smoke up Bill’s Pelosi and threw in some perks to get him to speak. Face it, he is more respected in the liberal circles the BO ever will be and a faaaar better President.
Steve
July 30th, 2012
10:43 am
The article should have read: TWO THIRDS OF VOTERS DO NOT SUPPORT THE T SPLOST. But, being the Atlanta Urinal and Constipation what would you expect. This left leaning piece of garbage just will not tell you the truth as it happens.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:43 am
@middle of the road. Do your research. Even the TEA party people have this in their Plan B. You can control your sales tax a lot easier than fuel. Buy things online.
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
10:47 am
“If people moved closer to their jobs, there would not be a traffic problem.”
Or if jobs moved closer to where people want to live.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:47 am
While you all strive for the perfect utopia state government, businesses will continue to leave this city or not come at all. Maybe in 15 years when you finally get what you want there will be enough of a voting public left to actually vote for it.
Hmmmmmm
July 30th, 2012
10:48 am
@kramer
Thanks for being honest…. It’s refreshing! Hopefully, those will be the only votes of yes this bill gets….
Marlboro Man
July 30th, 2012
10:49 am
There will be folks fired if they don’t vote Yes.
Just say NO to the TSPLOST and the Tea Party
July 30th, 2012
10:50 am
hiram
July 30th, 2012
9:46 am
Thank you for that video. This is one of the “main” reasons that the citizens of Georgia do trust our elected officials with any more of our resources. As a tax paying citizen, I find the video very offensive!! When the dust is settled on August 1st, we will be able to see how well connected the contractors are with our politicians and government officials. Damn, this is just plain robbery!! Shame on Gwinnett County!!
Auntie Christ
July 30th, 2012
10:51 am
VOTE YES!!! July 30th, 2012 9:55 am “If you vote ‘no’ you are guaranteeing an increased fuel tax and more tolls. All of which will cost you more than 1% AND will not be monitored….”
True, but the people paying it are the ones who decided to buy houses 30 miles from their work place, who drive to work all by themselves in their 20 mi/gal SUV, and who wouldn’t dream of walking their obese kids the two blocks to their school or friend’s house.
Just say NO to the TSPLOST and the Tea Party
July 30th, 2012
10:51 am
Georgia do trust our elected officials
should be Georgia DO NOT trust our elected officials
td
July 30th, 2012
10:51 am
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:47 am
Besides housing industry companies, what businesses have left the city? Which ones are planning on leaving in the future if this bill is rejected? Coke? Home depot?
Deal and Sonny have brought in a few big businesses to the outer areas of the state.
Dirty Dawg
July 30th, 2012
10:51 am
I hope you folks appreciate that the TPM (Tea Party Mindset) has now crossed Party lines and is infecting even the most optimistic among us. You guys have succeeded in generating a level of cynicism that pretty much will stifle growth and prosperity for Atlanta, the region and the State for years, if not decades,to come. I used to think that selfishness and prejudice were the ‘exclusive’ motivators of the most conservative of us…now it appears that the disease has ‘gone viral’ and probably can’t be stopped even when they (Republican Pols) try to. Hope you all are satisfied. Can you imagine what Atlanta, and because of it Georgia, would have been like if William Hartsfield, Ivan Allen, and even Sam Massell had had to deal with this kind of ‘just say no’ approach to anything that could be deemed ‘progressive’?
Shar
July 30th, 2012
10:52 am
No, the fuel tax will not be raised. If T-SPLOST fails, the politicians will be (finally) just a bit frightened of the voters whose money they slide to “contributors” in the arrogant expectation that there is always more to squeeze. The pols put T-SPLOST up for a vote and let their corporate masters try to shove it through (something they have NEVER before failed to do) so they could imitate Pontius Pilate and claim that voters decided to tax themselves and that politicians had nothing to do with raising taxes. They are far too afraid of being held accountable to actually vote for a tax increase themselves.
If T-SPLOST goes down, maybe – just maybe -there will be better planning for the fewer resources we have. The developers who make huge profits by building ever farther from town, overwhelming the tax-supported infrastructure while pocketing the big bucks, might actually have to pay for the new roads, sewers etc. they now shift to the taxpayers. Perhaps the GDOT planners will be forced to think of accountability before they approve a 4-lane to Sonny’s Place instead of new roads where everyone except former governors have to drive.
Mike, as far as taxpayer support for MARTA, your car costs lots more than just gas and maintenance. Your commute is completely dependent upon taxpayer funding for roads. MARTA doesn’t need roads, but it does need line extensions, new stations, more trains and up to date maintenance. We can never build enough roads to get rid of congestion, as the more roads we build the more houses developers will build and the more cars will be using the roads. We can build enough transit to make a huge difference. You ask about any public transit systems that are not state subsidized; can you name any road systems that operate without tax support?
Kramer
July 30th, 2012
10:53 am
To be honest Hmmm, I sort of hope it fails. I do not trust the state or federal government to spend our money the way they say they will. No government ran project gets done on time or on budget. What really burns me and it can be taken care of now, is in South Carolina they are paying .25-.30 per gallon cheaper on their gas. Are you kidding me? Our gas taxes are that much higher the SC’s? No excuse for a Republican ran state for this to happen.
Dirty Dawg
July 30th, 2012
10:53 am
Enter your comments here
findog
July 30th, 2012
10:53 am
The claim that the fuel tax will be increased is totally false
The GOP cannot vote for a tax increase. That is why everything is a form of SPLOST; gutless politicians that fear Grover Norquist more than stagnating the state by refusing to invest in infrastructure.
Vote no and make the GOP eat crow – either raise taxes like you are voted into office to meet the states needs or kill the economy to be right on taxes
TrishaDishaWarEagle
July 30th, 2012
10:55 am
I early voted NO..have you? T-SPLOST is going down tommorrow..Obama is going down in November..
Say what
July 30th, 2012
10:55 am
finddog, you realize that the Democratic’s are pushing this too don’t you?
Vote No.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:55 am
Dirty Dawg, well said.
td
July 30th, 2012
10:55 am
VOTE YES,
Still waiting on an answer about how much this tax increase will reduce the commute time from Acworth and Sugar Hill to Atlanta?
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:56 am
@Kramer, SC also has some of the worst roads and absolutely no budget to fix them.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:57 am
@td, go look it up. I don’t have time to do your research for you. Try the Untie Atlanta website.
Kramer
July 30th, 2012
10:57 am
Dirty Dawg, thank God for the TPM crossing party lines. It is about damn time! We have to be in control of our finances at home and we should expect our Government to do the same. Or are you for the tax and spend crowd?
td
July 30th, 2012
10:57 am
findog
July 30th, 2012
10:53 am
I vote for killing the economy and forcing all the Yankee’s to more back up north.
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:58 am
@td, Turner Broadcasting has moved business to Tampa. Richmond, VA currently uses an aerial picture of the downtown connector to market new businesses.
Lt Col
July 30th, 2012
10:58 am
Being a staunch Conservative and Republican, I am normally opposed to new taxes on income, purchases, property, or for any other reason. Simply put, “I hate taxes”. However, if the Metropolitan Atlanta region ever hopes to get a handle on our gridlocked transportation system, it is going to take money…lots of money, and the only way a government can generate revenue is by taxation. Therefore, the TSPLOST is of great importance to the future of Atlanta. Without it gridlocked traffic will continue as far as the eye can see.
So, if you have not yet voted, vote Yes for TSPLOST whenever you vote!!
Kramer
July 30th, 2012
10:59 am
Vote Yes, have you seen some of our roads? Please, I don’t buy that for one second. Paying that much more then SC our roads should be the best in the country. They are not.
td
July 30th, 2012
10:59 am
VOTE YES!!!
July 30th, 2012
10:57 am
@td, go look it up. I don’t have time to do your research for you. Try the Untie Atlanta website.
I know the answer. It is not one dang minute. So tell me again why we should vote for a tax increase?
TrishaDishaWarEagle
July 30th, 2012
11:00 am
Businesses won;t leave due to killing T-SPLOST..they might leave because of lack of water resources and job killing high cost clean air regulations, either way, they just move to the periphery..think KIA..they didn’t move to the metro area and it’s myriad air pollution regulations now did they..west GA…less regulation.
ank
July 30th, 2012
11:00 am
Funny, i wonder how many “no voters” i drove past this AM while going 75 miles an hour reverse commute on I-85. At least, i’ll have job protection if this fails. Its clear that actually having somewhat of an active lifestyle vs sitting your &$* in traffic 2 hrs a gday will always keep a cardiologist in business. Thanks to the anti-TSPOLST campaign for your continued support of me!
iheartsarah
July 30th, 2012
11:02 am
Vote Yes…….STFU!
TS
July 30th, 2012
11:05 am
LOL @ people who think Atlanta traffic is “bad”….try driving on Los Angeles freeways where the slow lane is considered 75 mph and then see if you still think Atlanta traffic is bad!
Shar
July 30th, 2012
11:05 am
@Vote Yes and Marlboro Man: You have not offered up any concrete transportation improvements that this T-SPLOST will deliver across the metro area that justify the massive investment that every person in the metro will have to make.
The reason is simple: there are no substantial improvements in transportation. There are lots of hundred million dollar “studies” on roads that might indeed make a difference, but there is no funding for those roads – a clear indication that the T-SPLOST backers are planning a thirty year tax, not a ten year one. Perhaps if they were honest and admitted that nothing will improve until after thirty years or so, they might be able to offer up the transportation value that would justify the tax, but everyone knows that the tax would be DOA if the real tax period was admitted.
This is not a jobs bill or a very expensive PR campaign to convince corporate relocation specialists that Atlantans “believe in Atlanta”.. It is a TRANSPORTATION bill, and as such it DOES NOT WORK. Your failure to offer any proof to the contrary shows that you are aware of this basic, irredeemable flaw.
Overtaxation, distrust of politicians, politicization and corruption of GaDOT, fiscal irrresponsibility, failure of previous ‘citizen review boards’ to address graft, cronyism and overspending – all these factors play into the resistance to the T-SPLOST. The elephant in the living room that you supporters want so desperately to avoid discussing is the fact that the current project list will do almost nothing for the vast majority of Atlantans, and therefore does not deserve to be funded by them.
Laughing so hard it hurts
July 30th, 2012
11:05 am
I am upset at all the business signs posted in and around the 124 area that no comission or chairman that sits on any board has just gladly at their own will posted on the sidewalks like the business supports it with that impression without talking to the owners or individuals of the business.. Flat out wrong….and disgusting politics. Both sides of the aisle.
Bob
July 30th, 2012
11:06 am
Vote No!
The proponents are lying! For example they state without TSPLOST the region will die as companies vacate Atanta and no one will move here. Yet they then say traffic will get worse and worse as the population and regions grows! You can’t have both!
Now TSPLOST is about “JOBS.” They gave up in lying about travel benefits as they are extremely minor. Why should anyone pay more tax for unsustainable const jobs?
They are NO FUNDS to sustain the expanded transit operating costs without TSPLOST II and TSPLOST III. The Beltline [WasteLine] and Emory Connector will not be completed and in full operation until TSPLOST ends.
Bob Smith
July 30th, 2012
11:07 am
Well, can’t speak for other voters but my wife and I voted early and both voted NO. I know of several others who have voted NO. I only know one person who has said they are voting yes.
Ga Values VOTE NO FOR WASTE, GRAFT & CORRUPTION
July 30th, 2012
11:08 am
@vote yes…I assume you are being paid by the post..good if you are paid in cash but I doubt that your check will cash tomorrow.
Bob Smith
July 30th, 2012
11:09 am
Anyone know where I can get a VOTE No sign for my yard. I live on a busy state hwy and would love to sway maybe a few others to the nay side if possible.
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
11:10 am
“businesses will continue to leave this city or not come at all. ”
We can only hope – Caterpillar, Kia, Budweiser, Toyo Tires – all made the RIGHT decision not to locate in Atlanta. The old GM facility sits empty because it is STUPID to locate a business where people DON’T WANT TO LIVE.
The enemy within
July 30th, 2012
11:11 am
Dirty Dog – This country was MOST successful when the vast majority of citizens were skeptical of their government’s ability to do anything. We must return to a circumstance when government solutions are seen for what they are – the wrong way to handle things. Thankfully the “Tea Party Mentality” as you call it is catching fire on both sides of the aisle. Frankly the libertarian movement has gained so much ground lately because everyone who is paying any attention at all can see that government is an abject failure while the free market, while not perfect, at least offers competition and an opportunity for voluntary exchange and even voluntary rejection of a failed business without the need for political intervention. Hooray for the freedom movement. Great job Ron Paul and your R3VOLUTION.
TS
July 30th, 2012
11:16 am
Thats why I would never start a road construction company….waaaayyyy to much competition fighting over to few jobs.
The road construction companies are feeling the pinch…they can give a rats azz about improving people’s commute. They are desperately trying to survive in a business where 90% of your revenues comes from public money! High overhead (heavy equipment that rapidly depreciates and storage cost for that equipment) + too much competition + bad economy and angry voters = FAIL!!!
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
11:17 am
If Atlanta wants a TSPLOST, let the Atlanta counties (Fulton and Dekalb) vote it in. Quit trying to make us suburbs your “donor counties”.
Mr Vote Yes – the reason you don’t want the legislature to increase the gasoline tax rather than use a TSPLOST is that gas taxes can ONLY be used for roadways, – NOT for MARTA or the Beltline.
And to think
July 30th, 2012
11:19 am
When I moved to Atlanta it was seen as a forward-thinking and rapidly globalizing city. I see the local populace prefers being cheap and small-minded. To each their own but I think your grandkids will be disappointed you “prefer Birmingham” to what Atlanta and Georgia could be. SMH. Wonders never cease. Other cities will gladly take your economic development, I have firsthand experience with it and I assure you, it actually IS the traffic.
allen981
July 30th, 2012
11:19 am
Here’s the lunacy of this plan: improvement to the I-20/I-285 interchange, one of the worst, most poorly designed anywhere in the world, is not on the schedule for work until 2020.
That is ludicrous, and alone, is worth a no vote. This is the worst interchange in Atlanta, creates constant backups in both directions at all hours, and is a huge impediment to traffic around and through the city.
So, “Vote Yes” explain that one to us.
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
11:20 am
The AJC got it right when they said most of us who have voted NO or intend to vote NO did so at least in part because of the lying politicians who kept the Ga 400 tolls in place after they expired. Do you really believe there won’t be a TSPLOST II and TSPLOST III? I have a bridge I would like to sell you…
td
July 30th, 2012
11:20 am
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
11:17 am
Was not aware of that little tidbit of information. Good catch.
Just say NO to the TSPLOST and the Tea Party
July 30th, 2012
11:21 am
I am a Democrat and I am voting NO because I do not trust a state government that has little or no flexibility. (All Republican) My decision is NOT based on what is going on within the “Tea Party”. You Tea Party members and Republicans said in 2010 that you all were sending a message and voted to turn Georgia into a bright RED state. Well the message is being sent back to Governor Deal and the rest of the administration. Maybe they should not have let the ink dry too fast for the contracts to their families and friends!!
Build public trust by using taxes for transportation, not stadium | Kyle Wingfield
July 30th, 2012
11:21 am
[...] write it’s what “most people” would expect. But, given that we still are getting vastly divergent reports of the decisions of even those voters who have already cast their ballots, I’m not sure there [...]
ComradeAnon
July 30th, 2012
11:23 am
Roads in Georgia have ALWAYS been about economic development. They are what got us in this situation in the first place. Think “Inner Perimeter”. Just on a much larger scale. This state is incapable of doing what is needed to get cars off the road. Build a world class transit system. And why can’t they finance improvements the traditional way? Because that would likely require higher taxes. Which can’t be done. Unless it’s a very regressive sales tax. What a bunch of hypocrites.
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
11:24 am
“Other cities will gladly take your economic development,”
Other cities in Georgia. There ARE other cities in Georgia besides Atlanta, you know. Let Atlanta pay for Atlanta’s issues. Next you will see a SSPLOST – where Atlanta will want the suburbs to pay for their sewage problems because “we commute in and sh*t in-town”.
Mike
July 30th, 2012
11:24 am
JB; so why are you turning this discussion into a “Nanny State” rage; can’t come up with a rational argument otherwise?
Bob
July 30th, 2012
11:25 am
TSPLOST does not adequately fund the “perfect” transportation system which is:
1. Available where I live regionwide
2. Goes where I want to go
3. Guarantees me a seat, no standing
4. Is available when I need it {24/7]
5. Affordable for almost all
Answer – Cars driving on decent roads!
The answer is not $$$ wasteful transit like the Atl Trolley, WasteLine, and Emory connector.
td
July 30th, 2012
11:26 am
And to think
July 30th, 2012
11:19 am
“When I moved to Atlanta it was seen as a forward-thinking and rapidly globalizing city.”
You must have been one of the people that bought into the Olympics propaganda. Most life long residents of Georgia did not want to see this rapid growth. We were for slow steady growth where you build the infrastructure as you go along. It is high time we get back to the correct thinking and slow this down.
fed up with it all
July 30th, 2012
11:29 am
the enemy within
11:11 am 7/30/12
you are the only one who clearly sees the bigger picture.
ComradeAnon
July 30th, 2012
11:29 am
One more thing. The citizens of this state complained for years about traffic. Nothing was done. Then businesses started complaining that “your traffic is too bad, we don’t want to locate there”. Now watch all the legislators bend over backwards to try to felate their Lord the Corporation. Disgusting.
Road Scholar
July 30th, 2012
11:30 am
“Considering that there was no input from the general public or from engineers trained in transportation. ”
Did you know the GDOT Director of Planning reviewed all projects, the final project list and determined that those projects do address congestion as well as safety and air quality? He has a BSCE and a masters degree in transportation and has many years of experience in transportation planning. What are your credentials?
The list of projects were also vetted by the Atlanta Regional Commission (ARC) which is the Metro Planning Org for the Atlanta Region. They have run a myriad of computer modeling on these projects and ARC is staffed by many qualified professional transportation planners. What are your credentials?
No public input? I believe they received over 200,00 comments and input into the final list. Where were you?
What amazes me is the distrust of not only the politicians but also the professional engineers and planners. Do you question your doctors this way? The people who fix your appliances and homes? Try this next time just before you get a colonoscopy? When the dentist has his equipment in your mouth? YOU voted for these politicians and I bet all if not most of the incumbents running will get reelected…….by YOU! That is…if you vote, or do just like to say I told you so!
Oh and td, We know or at least you think you are an expert on everything. Running for office? Wheel chair general? And no, I do not work for GDOT, A contractor or a politician. I think for myself based on what I have learned and read. td: “I vote for killing the economy…” Ah the repub mantra!
The opposition has proposed that the gas tax be consolidated (tax + gas sales tax (3 out of 4 cents) and the gas sales tax that goes to the general fund( 1 Cent of the 4)) into one tax. I agree. But that 1 % has been going to transportation for many years. Adjusting the present gas tax to inflation? New funding to cover the decrease in tax revenue that has occurred and the expanded needs of the region/state is proposed by some , but the politicians are shaking in their boots because they fear making the decision and G Norquist.
Are you ready for more tolls? Hot/managed lanes? Good you better be!
Maybe we should tax bitching? We’d be rolling in money!
allen981
July 30th, 2012
11:32 am
Well said TD
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
11:35 am
“What amazes me is the distrust of not only the politicians but also the professional engineers and planners. Do you question your doctors this way?”
I don’t think my doctors would have taken a HOV lane away from general traffic use and made it an HOT lane. Sort of like saying if you pay me an extra $20, I will let you in fromt of the other people who had appointments.
My doctor probably would not have said he was going to remove a toll on Ga 400 and then kept in in place to get more money. Sort of like charging extra so he could buy an MRI and then deciding to keep charging extra because he likes the extra money coming in.
Miss J
July 30th, 2012
11:38 am
Top Reasons I Will Vote NO on TSPLOST…
1. We are paying way too much taxes as it is.
2. Why can’t our elected officials manage the tax revenues they already receive from us; for example, look at the high paying salaries of our state and county officials and start cutting from there.
3. We can furlough teachers and cops but never hear about our elected officials talk about cutting the outragous six figure (450,000) salaries.
4. Take the current tax revenues – manage them and they can be used for various projects to eleviate out traffic congestion.
5. You told us once GA 400 was paid off – you would stop the tolls. You stopped the tolls for a few weeks – then reinstated them. You expect us to trust you with more of our tax dollars. Gov Deal promised to get rid of the GA 400 tolls but he does not have the authority to do it..he must make a recommendation.
NO TO TSPLOST………………..NO NO NO…………..
allen981
July 30th, 2012
11:38 am
Tolls work fine in many places; what’s wrong with them? Better than forcing me to pay for something I don’t use.
allen981
July 30th, 2012
11:38 am
Tolls work fine in many places; what’s wrong with them? Better than forcing me to pay for something I don’t use.
Harry Lewis
July 30th, 2012
11:39 am
Do we need the tax?
7/30/2012 9:30:00 AM
LaHood announces expansion of transportation project finance fund
U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood has announced the availability of up to $17 billion in loans for critical infrastructure projects as a result of the new surface transportation law.
He encouraged cities and states to submit letters of interest to the Transportation Infrastructure Finance and Innovation (TIFIA) program, which provides direct loan guarantees and standby lines of credit to major infrastructure projects that have the potential to create jobs and spur economic development.
LaHood described the assistance as “the largest transportation infrastructure loan program” in the history of the U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT).
“These investments will help cities and states create jobs right away building the big transportation projects we need to make sure our economy continues to grow and prosper,” he said in a prepared statement.
The recently enacted law, known by the acronym MAP-21, provides $1.7 billion in capital over two years for TIFIA credit assistance program, up from $120 million in FY2012. Each dollar of federal funds can provide approximately $10 in TIFIA credit assistance, meaning $17 billion in loans through TIFIA can leverage $20 billion to $30 billion in transportation infrastructure investments, according to LaHood.
A range of projects are eligible for funding, including those involving passenger rail and public transit.
To date, the TIFIA program has used $9.2 billion in funding to leverage more than $36.4 billion in private and other capital to help advance 27 major transportation projects, according to the USDOT.
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
11:41 am
The Georgia DOT is also the one that, when they built I-575, only built it two lanes in each direction. As soon as it opened, it was overcrowded. Where was the 10-year projections? They could have made it three lanes with very little more money and a LOT less congestion.
The Georgia DOT also put in 575/515 and did not buy any land for carpool parking areas. You anti-congestion people want carpools, right? Every carpool takes at least one car off the road. But there are no places around 575 to park and ride. People have to park in churches or businesses, or the few park and rides are full and people parking on the grass.
Yes, I question THAT DOT.
Hmmmmmm
July 30th, 2012
11:41 am
@Road Scholar
My credentials…. Hmmmm, let me think… Oh I know. I can BALANCE my check book! My bank charges me for fiscal irresponsibility…. I appreciate all the HOT air, but it boils down to one thing. Fiscal responsibility. This bill is NOT in any shape or form fiscally responsible. Hey, I didn’t need but one paragraph…. Sorry, but I am still trying to find somebody to help me…. Vote yes is so worried about me…
TS
July 30th, 2012
11:42 am
@ And to think……what about Augusta???…Its the 2nd largest city in Georgia yet it really won’t benefit from any of the money if this bill is passed.
Its residents will be taxed to pay for projects in Atlanta that’s 150 miles away! Its funny how Out-of-towners think Atlanta is the only city in Georgia…when you mention Atlanta to a out-of-towner they talk about it as if it is the state and NOT the city!!!
Don’t forget Augusta and Savannah, 2 major cities within Georgia worth mentioning and how they will NOT benefit from this bill!!!
jj
July 30th, 2012
11:43 am
The failed commisioner of the SRTA simply cannot tell the truth.
Remeber GA 400. Vote NO
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
11:44 am
Actually, TS, Ithink Augusta and Savannah are in separate TSPLOST regions, not in the Atlanta region.
Road Scholar
July 30th, 2012
11:45 am
Shar: “Perhaps the GDOT planners will be forced to think of accountability before they approve a 4-lane to Sonny’s Place instead of new roads where everyone except former governors have to drive. ” You are right on the shift. But you left out that it was proposed by the Governor and approved by the legislature since the corridor was a part of the Gov Road Imp Program (GRIP) system APPROVED by the legislature?
rumpelstiltskin
July 30th, 2012
11:46 am
Why not offer incentives to companies that allow the employees to work from home? Why not promote and push that initiative? There are many job functions out there that could be accomplished if the employees had the option to telecommute. It would help the clean air movement, reduce the traffic gridlock, improve quality of life, and reduce expenses, which could help boost the economy. I work from home 3 days a week, so essentially I save about 60% on my fuel expense ($60-70 savings per week)
Miss J
July 30th, 2012
11:47 am
Bottom line—-our elected officials don’t want to make the tough decisions that’s required to manage the tax revenues they already get from us.
Look at the state and local waste…no you rather raise our taxes —it’s a lot easier to do that that to stand up and make tough decisions concerning our budjets……………. NO TO the TSPLOST NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Bill
July 30th, 2012
11:48 am
Only a true libtard would care how Palin pronounced Zoeller.
TSPLOST is going down hard which is great news
Remember Toll 400
July 30th, 2012
11:49 am
Governor, remember when we agreed to the GA 400 toll WITH THE PROMISE it would go away when paid off? Well, you lie once, shame on you. If the taxpayers vote for another tax “to fix traffic,” shame on us. Politicians, Repub or Dems, do not give back tax money. Vote carefully.
No SPLOST Left of Center
July 30th, 2012
11:49 am
There are many issues that will cause folks to vote this down, not the least of which is the idea that this region is still badly suffering from the recession and no new taxes is their mantra.
But this SPLOST could not have come at a worse time for possible passage, in that most of us vividly remember the outrage foisted upon the folks in Gwinnett when the HOT lanes were imposed over wholesale objection. To me, voting in this SPLOST will only get us more Lexus Lanes.
And since I can’t afford them now, I don’t see voting in more of them.
And the idea that those of us who’ve lived in the suburbs forever and put up with things as they are should listen to you newbies living in Atlantic Station — because you are young, and wise, and worldly, and are going to leave with your noveau riches otherwise — is a joke. We dealt with things long before your newbie *sses got here, and we will deal with them long after you are gone. Go live in Birmingham or elsewhere. Your sanctimonious carping might be appreciated there.
And we won’t have to put up with your johnny-come-lately “advice”.
TS
July 30th, 2012
11:49 am
@ Middle of the Road…..Are you sure about that?….If so, I stand corrected!
Kris (voted NO)
July 30th, 2012
11:50 am
Deal/Reed you know if you take 2 crooked boards and glue them at the top it might stand up.
This crooked pocket lining cheep asphalt TAX smells dirty. It reeks of midnight legislation behind closed/locked doors.
Please DERAIL this boondoggle TAX..
Vote the GOP crooks out!
NO TO TSPLOST………………..NO NO NO………
Vote No on corrupt TSPLOST
July 30th, 2012
11:51 am
I took the Citizens for Transportation Mobility, Inc donation report for their campaign to push the TSPLOST and totaled up the donations from outside of Georgia = $1,281,827. This is outside the state money attempting to raise our taxes to enrich themselves. DISGUSTING!
Rafe Hollister
July 30th, 2012
11:53 am
Tee SPLAT
I know he has never once been consistent, but isn’t Obama’s slogan, “Forward”? He says “we ain’t going back” about every 30 minutes, so why is he going back to …….Clinton? I guess when the going gets tough, we go in reverse.
Road Scholar
July 30th, 2012
11:55 am
Middle: They do 20 year projections with the year that construction is to be completed as the base year. Maybe that was all that they could afford at the time. Lanes can be added in the median. At the time there was almost nothing in that corridor. Do you know that part of the road north of where I575 ends is a part of the Appalachian Development Hwy? A fed program to spur development in Appalachia? Have you looked at te HOV Strategic Plan on the GDOT website? It won a national award for planning with a design revue to ensure constructability.
A boom came..I remember when the region had less than 1 M people in the region. We blew out all projections. For the record three planners were asked to size up I 285 on the north side before it was built. Two said the 20 year growth would dictate 2 lanes in each direction. The third said 5 lanes in each direction. He was right ! But sometimes with limited revenue, you build what you can, and then adjust for the future. The future is now.
Miss J
July 30th, 2012
11:55 am
If this TSPLOST is approved Who WINS:
1. Big Business
2. Lobbyist
3. The GA elected officials
WHO LOSES
The Tax payer AGAIN……….Bail out this one and bail out that one when in the h^%& are you going to bail out the tax payer……NO To TSPLOST NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Poll: Only one-third of early voters supported TSPLOST | The Brantley Enterprise
July 30th, 2012
11:55 am
[...] via Political Insider. Subscribe and save! [...]
Poll: Only one-third of early voters supported TSPLOST | SEGAZINE
July 30th, 2012
11:57 am
[...] via Political Insider. [...]
Don't Tread
July 30th, 2012
11:57 am
Wonder how many of the “vote often” people support the T-SPLAT.
Road Scholar
July 30th, 2012
11:59 am
TS: Middle is correct. There are twelve Tsplost districts in the state with their own list of “local” projects. The AJC only yesterday had an article on the coastal district; it may not pass there either. I do not know about the other 10.
aps
July 30th, 2012
12:01 pm
Remember the Northern Arc, great idea ruined by our then governor, whose only idea was to make his crony friends rich by letting them know what land parcels to buy. The same type of politician/bureaucrat will be in charge of this boondoggle. Vote NO!!!
Road Scholar
July 30th, 2012
12:02 pm
A point was made that businesses will fire employees that vote no. Really? How would they know? If they had a way of knowing, they would be violating state and federal law!
clyde
July 30th, 2012
12:02 pm
It’s easy.VOTE NO.
NO TSPLOST !!!
July 30th, 2012
12:02 pm
Vote NO NO NO for T-SPLOST!! They want to UNTIE the TIED UP MESS “they” TIED UP TO BEGIN WITH !!!! Don’t let them do it a second time !!!!! They can use all of the $$ from the GA 400 TOLL and the I-85 HOT LANES they stuck it to the general public on !!!!! NO NO NO for
T-SPLAT !!!!!
A B Normal
July 30th, 2012
12:02 pm
@Astropig – Do you really think a “citizen review panel” is going to keep everything above board?? All anyone has to do is withhold information and the CRP will be weak as a kitten. Just ask anyone who has served on the Atlanta Police citizen review panel.
Road Scholar
July 30th, 2012
12:03 pm
aps: And some want another go at it!
Billy
July 30th, 2012
12:06 pm
It’s a great idea for work at home liberals who won’t have to pay the tax. I’d rather sit on the freeway than pay a tax way out in Newton County for more and more funds for MARTA. I don’t use it and I’m sure I’m already paying for it via state taxes or new bonds sold to China. Not too many listed projects for Newton, wouldn’t vote yes even if there was. For all the hole in the head liberals who are ignorant as rocks yet call conservatives stupid, go buy a crying towel for Tuesday night. Again, glad to sit in traffic if it means another defeat for the arrogant leftists of the world…
too late to complain
July 30th, 2012
12:06 pm
For all you repubs that are complaining about Governor Deal, isn’t this the man that you all wanted to lead this state? Is he not doing a good enough job? Is he failing you all? Just vote NO!
TS
July 30th, 2012
12:07 pm
@ Road Scholar…..ok…I stand corrected…..seems like the public sees through this bill as clear as glass!
henry ford
July 30th, 2012
12:10 pm
or…the title could have said “2/3’s of early voter reject TSPLOST….funny how we read things….kinda like “let’s eat grandma”……or “let’s eat, grandma”…..
Alternatives
July 30th, 2012
12:13 pm
@Curly Copple July 30th, 2012 9:45am
Many of us work in the county in which we live and have no desire to travel to or visit Atlanta. Now, I WOULD like to travel between Gwinnett and Cobb a little more easily but there is not much in the TSPLOST to address travel in east/west directions. The 400 interchange won’t help travel past 400 only those exiting and entering.
Why why why?
July 30th, 2012
12:17 pm
Mike
July 30th, 2012
10:15 am
If mass transit as practiced in Atlanta is such a good thing, why doesn’t it pay for itself? I have to pay for my gas, maintenance, etc.
How about the roads Mike? Do you pay for the roads? Oh, I forgot. Republicans think roads are magically grown by corporations. Roads (and oil companies) are subsidized through taxpayer money. It’s about time we subsidize something that is sustainable – mass transit.
Dirty Dawg
July 30th, 2012
12:19 pm
Hey Kramer, enemy within, td, et.al., are you people really that stupid or do you just assume we are? Actually my basic, albeit somewhat cynical, response to you is KMGNA (K=Kiss and GN=Georgia Native…you can guess the rest.)
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
12:21 pm
“A point was made that businesses will fire employees that vote no. Really? How would they know? ”
They could ask. So forget about “telling the truth” and if your employer asks if you voted for TSPLOST, just say yes.
Hmmmmmm
July 30th, 2012
12:24 pm
@dirty dawg
All your really worried about is providing a four lane to Athens on game day… Who cares who has to pay for it…. am I right…
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
12:26 pm
“How about the roads Mike? Do you pay for the roads? Oh, I forgot. Republicans think roads are magically grown by corporations. Roads (and oil companies) are subsidized through taxpayer money.”
I pay for roads. It is through gasoline taxes. Of course it comes from taxes, it is WHICH taxes that make the difference. I believe that those who enjoy the benefits should pay the taxes. Social Security should be paid for with social security taxes. Medicare should be paid for with Medicare taxes. Roads should be paid for with gas taxes (Old tire cleanup should be paid for from the special tax levied on new tires -like they said they would do but haven’t).
People who use MARTA should pay for MARTA. People who will use the Beltline should pay for the Beltline.
I pay property taxes that subsidize roads IN OUR COUNTY ONLY, where 99% of the people here use the roads. Don’t ask me to subsidize the Atlanta Beltline I will NEVER use.
buckhead bob
July 30th, 2012
12:27 pm
Vote No. This benefits those who drive from suburban Atlanta. Let them pay tolls. I live inside the perimeter, close to work. Why should I subsidize your decision to live in the boonies so you could afford a garage-mahal?
An no plan B? Give me a break. There is no reason that the legislature can’t take up any of these projects on a case by case basis and properly manage the state’s budget to focus on traffic congestion. They were elected to represent us, now let’s make them find a solution. Going to the public and trying to force a “do or die” amendment down our throats because you couldn’t make tough decisions over the past years is not a solution.
Road Scholar
July 30th, 2012
12:28 pm
Middle: I wouldn’t; I’d respond ” It’s none of your business just like the rest of my votes!” Then if pressed say” Wasn’t it a shame it didn’t pass?” w/o attitude!
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
12:29 pm
“All your really worried about is providing a four lane to Athens on game day… Who cares who has to pay for it…. am I right…”
Actually, I think we should put in a sales tax just in the Atlanta City Limits to pay for that road to Athens. That is just like Atlanta wanting to tax us to put in their Beltline.
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
12:31 pm
“This benefits those who drive from suburban Atlanta. Let them pay tolls. I live inside the perimeter, close to work. Why should I subsidize your decision to live in the boonies so you could afford a garage-mahal?”
Fine, I will be glad to pay tolls every time I enter the perimeter (seldom). Of course, no gas taxes can be spent there either.
td
July 30th, 2012
12:32 pm
too late to complain
July 30th, 2012
12:06 pm
“For all you repubs that are complaining about Governor Deal, isn’t this the man that you all wanted to lead this state?”
Second choice but much better then the Democratic alternative.
” Is he not doing a good enough job? ”
On most issues he is doing a fine job. On this issue he needs to be slapped down by the voters and rethink the thing.
The Thin Guy
July 30th, 2012
12:32 pm
When Sonny Perdue ran for governor the first time he said that the one of the first things he would do when he was elected was synchronize all of the red lights in Atlanta. Fulfill that promise and I’ll be willing to consider your next proposals. Both I and my telephone recorder are looking forward to August 1 when I will no longer have 5 messages awaiting me from various pols. Hate to break the news to you but there is nothing on the ballot tomorrow that would motivate me to take an hour out of my life to vote. November is another matter.
Road Scholar
July 30th, 2012
12:33 pm
BB:”There is no reason that the legislature can’t take up any of these projects on a case by case basis and properly manage the state’s budget to focus on traffic congestion. ”
All these projects are from the 2040 ARC Plan which will probably be implemented at a much later year based on anticipated revenues. The tax would accelerate these projects! I agree with your second point, but they are scared to do their jobs!
buckhead bob
July 30th, 2012
12:35 pm
Even a gas tax would be more appropriately tailored to proportionally taxing those who will use the roads the most. If you have a long commute, and you choose to drive alone, you’ll use more fuel.
judetheobtuse
July 30th, 2012
12:37 pm
I watched a video about sustainability issues in Singapore and was ashamed that Atlanta seems an ignorant backwater compared to this beautiful, modern cosmopolitan city. Check it out sometime. Clean, effective seamless underground transportation making car travel almost completely unnecessary; rainwater retention and solar panels on all the high rises, and on and on while this redneck, backward small minded conservative throw back resists any kind of change that threatens their little bailiwicks. Sad, sad, sad.
Road Scholar
July 30th, 2012
12:37 pm
On the TIFIA loan, do you know the state has already been approved for one on the I575/I75 corridor outside the perimeter many years ago? NO private firm has been able to meet the remaining funding due to the remaining costs. Why do you think they removed rail to the Galleria and re designated that money to the I 75 corridor project? I believe they now have 5 proposals to examine!
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
12:39 pm
“Even a gas tax would be more appropriately tailored to proportionally taxing those who will use the roads the most. If you have a long commute, and you choose to drive alone, you’ll use more fuel.”
Yes, Bob, that is what it does. The longer the commute, the more you pay in gas tax.
Right on
July 30th, 2012
12:41 pm
Great point about removing rail from the list. It is clear that the plan fails to take cars off the road. Vote no.
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
12:42 pm
“I watched a video about sustainability issues in Singapore ”
Lots of things can be done in an oppressive, totalitarian, Communist regime.
ATLJacket
July 30th, 2012
12:49 pm
I weep for you folks that live in the ‘burbs and are far away from retirement age. Good luck. I’ll continue to live downtown and drive against traffic to my job at the top end. All of you on here really should read the bill and educate yourselves on the protections put in place to ensure this money is spent in a manner consistent with the bill as it is written today. Laying more asphalt is like giving a syringe full of dope to an addict. I’m of the opinion we should lay that commuter rail and increase the number of marta train lines while simultaneously decreasing the number of interstate lanes on 75/85 heading in and out of town. With no motivation to get off the roads, people will not do it. We are too tied to our laziness and large gas guzzers. The key is to give people a choice and then make it harder to drive which I don’t think is addressed properly in this list of projects which are still pretty heavily tilted towards asphalt.
Taipei Personality
July 30th, 2012
12:54 pm
The absolute waste of money known as the Atlanta Streetcar project has polarized people against this T-SPLOST, which otherwise contains some useful provisions. It’s too bad that politicians can’t let go of the losers, and in a sense the voters have no choice but to throw out the baby with the bath water. The Beltline is not much better. Rails are simply too expensive. For light rail fans…investigate the BRT provision for the northwest corridor. It is much cheaper and more quickly implementable. Light rail will only succeed if we can work with the existing rail companies (NS and CSX), perhaps attention should be focused on them. I have not heard of ANYONE trying to work with those companies, all we ever hear about is government-centered solutions. And we wonder where the problem lies…
Build public trust by using taxes for transportation, not stadium | News-ON Atlanta
July 30th, 2012
1:05 pm
[...] started to write it’s what “most people” would expect. But, given that we still are getting vastly divergent reports of the decisions of even those voters who have already cast their ballots, I’m not [...]
Haha
July 30th, 2012
1:06 pm
I’m surprised that the Conservatives are willing to take time out of their busy schedules to address this issue when they’re so busy trying to keep gay marriage illegal, banning abortion and cramming Jesus down everyone’s throats.
Baby's daddy
July 30th, 2012
1:11 pm
Ain’t it true that this tax hits the people who can least afford it and don’t do a damn thing about gettin’ them around town to get a job. Ain’t it true this tax lines the pockets of the good ol’ boy contractors ans businessmen. Than if all this ain’t it true stuff is true, ain’t it true the rich is robiin’ from the poor again.
Kris
July 30th, 2012
1:18 pm
@ Baby’s and Haha…very true words…Welcome to GA where the elected officials (term used loosely),
have BETTERED themselves at the cost of the POOR.
Vote No on corrupt TSPLOST
Trey
July 30th, 2012
1:21 pm
I voted No. This is just another unnecessary tax. If the government wants T-SPLOST, how about we stop funding other frivolous things to fund this, so taxes don’t have to go up for this garbage? For example, stop funding the Georgia Peach Pass.
Jack
July 30th, 2012
1:26 pm
Since our present economic downturn was caused by bad planning, most voters think T-SPLOST is the result of bad planning. And as mentioned above, if the same planners of the belt line and the trolly project had anything to do with T-SPLOST, that’s enough reason to vote NO.
kyla love
July 30th, 2012
1:27 pm
I’m voting “No” on the T-splost
TPLOST: Atlanta’s Traffic Drama Continues | Bryce J. McNeil
July 30th, 2012
1:33 pm
[...] proposal for which the funds would be dedicated to a variety of transit initatives. Early numbers don’t bode well that the tax will be approved by metro Atlanta voters. And indeed, while the entire state will be [...]
Don't Be Silly...
July 30th, 2012
2:02 pm
Can y’all see the “fat lady” priming her voice for an early rendition of “Hey, hey… good bye” just 30 minutes after the polls close. My prediction 60/40.
Pay particular attention to the sweat beads on the foreheads of state and local politicians when addressing the media after the vote.
It’s gonna feel like Christmas to the NO crowd – and I’m damn happy to watch this money-grabbing tax go down in flames.
Yeee Haaaaw!!!
DD
July 30th, 2012
2:16 pm
“I watched a video about sustainability issues in Singapore and was ashamed that Atlanta seems an ignorant backwater compared to this beautiful, modern cosmopolitan city. Check it out sometime. Clean, effective seamless underground transportation making car travel almost completely unnecessary;”
Really, you watched a video. Have you been to Singapore? it is a very congested yet densly populated city. The same arguments made time and time again by statist and gov’t planners about public rail transit systems and how they will save the world from the evil automobile while preserving the environment. First, light rail runs on electric power not windmills so the power has to be generated and it’s not solar powered if you get the drift. Second cities in the U.S. outside of the Northeast (whose rail/transit systems are in part subsidized by the rest of the country) are not nearly as densly populated and condusive to those solutions. This is not about finding solutions to transportation it is about finding another source of revenue for politicians and those that are the benefactors of this bill. That is why I will vote no. Although I could simply vote based on my own situation living and working within the same 10 mile radius in the N. Fulton (soon to be Milton) county suburbs. And buckhead Bob people have moved out to the the suburbs for better schools and lower housing costs because they want to have a higher quality of life so let it go. We choose not to live in a shack (or have most of our income go to a mortgage), pay high taxes in Atlanta and have our children subject to the APS system. The fact is Atlanta has been progressing towards regionalization within the greater metro area for years. Here is to voting no on TSPLOST, pressing for Milton county and then may the best run counties or areas win.
Truthiness
July 30th, 2012
2:29 pm
@DirtyDawg and @Lt Col – I agree with you. Atlanta has the “4th worst commute” in the country, and everyone knows our roads were designed by drunken monkeys. I, too, am putting aside my usual cynicism and distrust, and voting yes. I have reviewed the list of projects, which includes improvements for specific intersections that are notoriously problematic – you may know them from your daily traffic report: I-20 at 285. 285 at 400. 285 at 85. 75 at Windy Hill. Cobb Parkway. Holcomb Bridge at 400. All of these locations are on the list of TIA projects. I personally believe that by fixing our poorly-designed roads and intersections, it will reduce accidents and congestion, even if the traffic volume stays the same (ex: diverging diamond at 285 and Ashford Dunwoody). And I know it takes a lot of money to do this.
I would rather support an initiative like TSPLOST that claims to offer citizen oversight, because at least that claim can be held over the politician’s heads. This is far better than shoving the 85 HOT lanes down our throats without asking first. While this is not a magic bullet, it’s a start, and at least gives us a chance to begin fixing some very basic problems. Heck, even Clark Howard supports TSPLOST. And as Roosevelt said, “In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.”
To the few naïve commenters who think the solution is to simply “move closer to your job”, I’m glad that you are fortunate enough to have this luxury. Do you really think people voluntarily choose to have a long commute?
kevin3
July 30th, 2012
2:35 pm
Your last ditch or seeking your YES or NO ends at 7:00 A.M. at your poll. Yes, perhaps the above is right however, every county is not saying yes! Why tax yourself again in this economy? Most of you are already pay this transportation tax, you will be pay a $2 cent verse 1 cent. Don’t be fool about how words are played if you can afford to pay, fine, those that can’t what are you going to do if it past will you have the money to give it up? This so called TSPLOST is poor planning, it won’t untie any county, nor will you see it; it is billions placed on top of millions which you do not know about and you are not going to see what you have invision in your mind. 10 years of funding can take up to 30 years because Georgia law provides your state legislatives to vote it back in to keep it from exspiring for as many times they deemed necessary. Now you do the math for your family over the 10 to 30 years and see what you getting yourself into!
Ricardo Wright
July 30th, 2012
2:35 pm
VOTE YES. We need the investment in infrastructure badly. My family’s construction company has 33 hard working MOTIVATED crew men itching to get to work. They need to put food on the table, and Georgia needs them to pay taxes and spend their income on food, clothes, rent, mortgages, and other things to keep our economy going. If you are against this because you are paranoid about taxes, learn the difference between wasteful spending and INVESTMENT in infrastructure. This is a WIN-WIN. We get better roads and rail, cleaner air, shorter commute AND we put people to work and boost this economy. We have 9.2% unemployment people. This is VERY BADLY needed. Republicans (like me) and Democrats are united on this one. The people saying no are fringe elements that are trying to scare you. My guys need to WORK.
Vincent Topalli
July 30th, 2012
2:41 pm
What a sad sad day. We Georgians, we Atlantans, can not get our of our own way because of a stubborn and irrational paranoia and fear of (gasp) taxes. This isn’t some random tax folks. It was carefully designed with tons of input from the community and will have unprecedented oversight. Our infrastructure is getting worse and worse every day and Fortune 500 companies are not going to put up with it. You want to reduce corporate taxes but you won’t support this? Both are ways to get corporations to STAY here and keep us EMPLOYED. Charlotte NC and Jacksonville FL are laughing at us. How sad. We should be competing with New York, London, and Pari not them. VOTE YES. Its ONE CENT on the dollar for crying out loud.
oldfart
July 30th, 2012
2:46 pm
As it stands right now HOT lanes are going to happen even if TSPLOST passes. $300,000,000 in SEED money in motor fuel taxes for the $1 Billion dollar HOT lanes on I75 mostly in Cobb were earmarked at the end of the last legislative session. Gena Evans and SRTA plan to ring and criss-cross Atlanta with HOT lanes REGARDLESS of TSPLOST passage.
oldfart
July 30th, 2012
3:04 pm
When the automatic escalation built in for inflation for the state sales tax on motor fuel was set to take place earlier in the year Gov. Deal jumped in and killed it. I’m paraphrasing but his comments were basically that it wouldn’t be prudent, wouldn’t be prudent at all at this juncture. Why is it that increase in the motor fuel sales tax from 12.1 cents to 12.9 is not feasible in the current climate but a sales tax of 1% on everything across the board including food for the purpose of transportation is endorsed by his Honor?
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
4:09 pm
“Do you really think people voluntarily choose to have a long commute?”
For those that live in the suburbs and commute to downtown Atlanta – of course they do. They choose to live where a nice big back yard is relatively inexpensive, and where there are good schools and people don’t get killed in home invasions.
Middle of the Road
July 30th, 2012
4:11 pm
“Do you really think people voluntarily choose to have a long commute?”
They could live in a 500 sq foot apartment in a condo in downtown with thousands of people around them, no privacy, APS schools for their kids.
Look before I leap...
July 30th, 2012
5:09 pm
@Middle of the Road
I live in midtown, 2400 sq ft condo, no yard work, a great view, 2 minute walk to over 35 great restaurants, covered and secured parking, 5 minute walk to Piedmont Park (my yard is bigger than your yard), a pool, deck and patio area with bbq (that gets almost no use by the residents here), a superb workout facility, conference rooms, a concierge, valet dry cleaning, a club room with catering facilities if I care to entertain more than 30 people.
That’s how we roll in my family.
You can have your McMansion in the burbs, the Olive Garden and the 1 hour commute in and out of town. Since my wife and I drive collectively less than 10K miles/yr, I say bring on the tolls and higher gas taxes – will cost us FAR less than the 12% sales tax increase that TSPLOST calls for.
Jess
July 30th, 2012
10:11 pm
This plan does nothing to relieve congestion on the expressways, doesn’t help the suburbs, doesn’t help Intown, and only benefits the cronies of officials who want to line their own pockets. I live in Atlanta, and not even the people Intown want this. All we’d see is more lousy Marta that still won’t go anywhere useful in a timely fashion, and oh, we’ll get a trolley. What??? How does that help any of the everyday people trying to get to work? The suburbs’ pet projects under this plan are equally useless. This is just more money taken from taxpayers that won’t benefit any of us in any county. No to yet another wasteful project and political graft.
Mike
July 30th, 2012
11:08 pm
s
Mike
July 30th, 2012
11:11 pm
@Look before I leap
Not “every suburb” is boring. I live in Vinings and love it. You list the positives of living in the city, but don’t mention any negatives. ( Higher crime, Smog, no yard) and i’ll take my own private pool and yard over a condo pool that is shared with everyone.
Today’s Headlines | Streetsblog Capitol Hill
July 31st, 2012
8:38 am
[...] Early Voters Reject Atlanta Transportation Tax (AJC) [...]