Trust and the transportation sales tax
If the referendum for a transportation sales tax in metro Atlanta fails this month, the cause is likely to be a lack of trust.
The most obvious trust gap is the one that separates most tea partyists from government spending. No surprise there. But the trust deficit that matters most in the July 31 vote, and the one that runs the deepest, separates white and black in metro Atlanta.
Or, if you prefer to keep things on a more civilized plane, it creates a divide between Democrats in Fulton and DeKalb counties on one hand, and Republicans in the other eight counties on the other.
All along, the strategy for passage of the transportation sales tax has been based on keeping the vote close in GOP strongholds such as Cobb and Gwinnett counties, then running up the score with strong African-American support in Atlanta and areas south of I-20.
This week, Channel 2 Action News released a poll, conducted by Rosetta Stone Communications, which showed only 38 percent of voters in the 10-county region in support of more spending to get metro Atlanta moving. In Fulton and DeKalb counties alone, support was measured at 49.6 percent – well short of what’s needed to make the formula work.
One reason for any lack of enthusiasm is the penny sales tax that Fulton and DeKalb residents already pay to fund MARTA. Passage would apply the transportation sales tax to all counties. The penny gap would remain.
But there is a larger unease growing, at least within the DeKalb and Fulton county political communities. As Republicans finally turn their heads toward the need for a regional transportation solution, some African-American lawmakers and other elected officials worry that their role in a transit system that they have managed for better than three decades is about to be lessened – or largely subverted.
As the Legislature shut down this spring, one bill lost to the clock would have transferred the power to appoint two members of the MARTA board from the Fulton County Commission to a council of six north Fulton mayors. In exchange, MARTA would have been allowed – for three years – to spend its sales tax revenue as it liked.
Longstanding state law prevents the transit system from spending more than 50 percent of sales tax revenue on operations – things such as salaries and electric bills. With sales tax revenue down because of the recession, the restriction is on hold until next year. But a financially pinched MARTA wants a extension and had reluctantly acquiesced, we’re told, to a deal brokered by House Majority Whip Edward Lindsey, R-Atlanta.
Lindsey said his bill is certain to return in January for quick passage.
Not long after the MARTA bill suffered this temporary setback, House Speaker pro tem Jan Jones, R-Milton, held a session with north Fulton constituents eager to create a new Milton County. The process would begin in January, the lawmaker told them. “My goal is to end Fulton County and bring government closer to the people,” Jones said.
Taken together, Jones’ comments and the MARTA bill sent a shiver down the spines of many black leaders in Fulton and DeKalb who are now being asked to turn out voters in July. “It’s definitely a concern,” said DeKalb County Commissioner Lee May, who opposes the referendum.
He understands the consequences. “DeKalb County residents are the type of voter that this initiative needs to win. We understand that in order to realize a benefit, you have to pay for it. Others in the region have shown a tendency to not want to pay for things,” May said.
The removal of Fulton County’s authority to appoint members of the MARTA board is only a precursor of things to come, May said. “It’s a slippery slope. You can see we’re clearly headed in the same direction as Fulton County with the cityhood movement. They’ll be coming for DeKalb soon.”
But Republicans say trust is a two-way street. Jones, the No. 2 leader in the House, doesn’t deny the remarks she made last month, but says they weren’t reported in full. “We’re looking at Fulton County as a model that is no longer relevant. It’s not that it’s good or bad. It’s just not relevant,” Jones said.
The House leader said she is willing to move slowly, and that the future of Fulton County shouldn’t become part of the transportation debate. “I’m a patient person,” she said. As for the measure to give north Fulton mayors the power to appoint members of the MARTA board, Jones said her voters need to have a more direct stake in transportation decisions.
“If they felt that they had a seat at the table, they would certainly be more likely to trust it and be interested in it,” Jones said.
Lindsey, author of the MARTA compromise, said much the same thing. “The fact of the matter is, Fulton County looks very different than what it did in the 1970s when we set up who all got to appoint whom. We now have all these cities up in north Fulton,” Lindsey said. And their residents pay a penny for MARTA, too.
Lindsey characterized the MARTA bill that will return next year as a piece of hard bargaining on both sides that would make Mick Jagger proud. “Everybody doesn’t get what they want, but they get what they need,” he said.
In exchange for increased north Fulton authority over MARTA, the transit agency gets more control over its own cash flow for three years. And that should be just enough time for state to establish a bona fide, regional transit system, Lindsey said.
Who controls it, and who pays for it, remain open questions.
- By Jim Galloway, Political Insider
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155 comments Add your comment
RAMZAD
June 30th, 2012
9:43 am
The Transportation Initiative as it is loaded up with projects now should be eminently destroyed. This Initiative is all about asphalt gravy for well connected asphalt and heavy equipment contractors. Any imbecile can see that the ten county metro does not need any new roads. We build more and bigger roads we get more and bigger gridlocks. We need MARTA slicing up the metro area like railroad engineers working with Ginsu knives- Not a foot more asphalt.
atlmom
June 30th, 2012
9:49 am
blahblahblah. If the legislature thinks this is the best plan ever, then pass it and raise taxes for it. don’t put it on the people – it is a HORRIBLE plan for anyone who wants *real* transportation. But that is irrelevant. We send people to atlanta to do a job, not push it back to the voters. DO YOUR JOB. And *that* is the main reason I’m voting against it.
That and – HELLO – how much does the GDOT spend every year? Again, if this is so great, then allocate more money to them, and deal with actually doing your job. If you think it’s the right thing to do, then vote for it as a LEGISLATOR.
Roy Jones
June 30th, 2012
9:49 am
Oh well… There goes the transit system I was hoping that the backwards northern counties would finally vote for but then again I don’t expect reason from most of those people. They love sitting in their cars for hours a day on 400. I live north of the perimeter and I chose to live in Atlanta but I am amazed how many people here don’t get the ideal of mass transit here. In any other metro area this would have been done already. Here the whole deal rides on the vestiges of racism and economic warfare. Truly a sad day for all of the metro Atlanta area.
atlmom
June 30th, 2012
9:50 am
correct – no new roads needed, ramzad. they only create more traffic.
In any event, when this fails, the legislators will take it as some sort of sign that people don’t want a transportation plan. not as a sign that they aren’t doing their jobs. *sigh*.
Such a shame I’m leaving Georgia.
atlmom
June 30th, 2012
9:51 am
Roy: but this plan doesn’t *just* contain stuff about mass transit – which A LOT of people in the city at least, support. It contains billions for roads. which are so not needed. what atlanta needs is a way to get around – without a car.
Just Nasty & Mean
June 30th, 2012
9:53 am
Good grief, JIm! Does EVERYTHING in Atlanta have to boil down to race. I am SICK of it!
The bottom line is: N. Fulton taxpayers have been screwed as the golden goose for–literally–decades. The current configuration of the County Commissioners gives N. Fulton a disproportionally smaller voice in government affairs, including the TIA/TSPLOST abomination. Just look at it–Why does the city of Atlanta have a disproportionate say in the projects list than the same taxpayers in N. Fulton? Somebody–with logic and reason—please explain that.
N. Fulton Taxpayers have sent hundred$ of MILLION$ to the capital over the last decades–and have pathetic 3rd world roads to show for it. We have paid for MARTA since the 70s–literally BILLION$ transferred to an entity that provides us little to no service. THEN, add in the Ga400 Toll Road–disproportionally paid for by N. Fulton– we were lied to AGAIN!!
Fool me once, Twice, Three TIMES, and now you want me to trust you on TSPLOST?
We’ve been foolish, but we’re not stupid!
Todd
June 30th, 2012
9:58 am
Jim always seems to make it about race or wealth. This is about the health of the region. Go North Jim.
Roy Jones
June 30th, 2012
9:58 am
altmon: Would not say roads are not needed. I understand the need to fix that too. There are some far flung areas of the area that just need a road. My thoughts are that we can get a mix of it all. Don’t throw the whole thing away just because of that. Buses, trains and cars: let’s put it all on the table.
Roy Jones
June 30th, 2012
10:00 am
Todd: LOL! Of course it is. It always is. That stuff never goes away. It is just below the surface. This is America for pete’s sake. History book would do you good.
Roy Jones
June 30th, 2012
10:08 am
Just Nasty & Mean: AMERICA has always had issues with race and economic inequality. No company moves here for North Fulton. They move here because if the infrastructure of the Atlanta area. If Atlanta falls then all of Georgia fails. Companies move away and house values plummet. The last think anyone wants is a southern version of Detroit. 400 serves the northern part of the county so they should they should pay for that. This is about extending the transportation resources to the long overlooked areas of North Fulton that did not exist in their current form in the 70s. I would not look at this as an “US against THEM” argument. If that is the case, then we all lose.
Just Nasty & Mean
June 30th, 2012
10:17 am
Roy Jones—You’ve only missed one point. We’ve been screwed too many times to trust ANYBODY!
Vote NO! to the TSPLOST that doesn’t end congestion, and NO! to the developers wet dream it represents.
johnny boy
June 30th, 2012
10:18 am
It’s not a penny sales tax, it,s a one persent sales tax. Big difference.
Centrist
June 30th, 2012
10:25 am
Galloway editorialized the following: “support of more spending to get metro Atlanta moving”. The AJC itself has admitted that little congestion relief is in this plan – it is mostly expansion of development for longer commutes instead of encouraging or having the market place move jobs located closer to the suburban resident workforce. The net effect on traffic congestion is nil.
This blog does (finally) point out that Atlanta leaders fear losing control of their MARTA piggy bank.
Mr. KnowitAll
June 30th, 2012
10:28 am
So, Todd….Is it “healthy” for the region to take $8B out of the local economy and pee it away on development projects (Beltline) that doesn’t help congestion one iota?
If we’re going to do this, let’s do it RIGHT and make it about relieving traffic–not about some political agenda (project list) by some government hack.
Birds of a Feather
June 30th, 2012
10:34 am
Anyone who has faith in a transportation plan designed by politicians in either party eeds to take a trip to the funny farm! Politicians design things to help their campaign contributors and then try to sucker the voters into supporting their boondoggle with all kinds of lavish promises. Vote No!
RAMZAD
June 30th, 2012
10:42 am
Anyone who eliminates race from the junction we have arrived in regional transportation is drinking from the voodoo public policy Kool-Aid puddle.
We know that MARTA was, up to two years ago, was never in Cobb or Gwinnett, because white suburban people believed that MARTA was going to be a pipeline for black criminals to come out of Atlanta into their communities. That is not conjecture. It is fact.
Of course, that theory did not make sense then and it does not now. I have never seen anyone getting on MARTA with a flat screen TV mounted to his chest, but white people believed that the absence of MARTA was an asphalt moat around their communities. Now, the moat has become their worst transportation nightmare. Don’t flip the script like this area is not a place where black people and white people at one time killed each other on sight. It is not an accident that Martin Luther King, Jr. had to come out of Atlanta.
H
June 30th, 2012
10:48 am
When is Atlanta going to realize that adding more lanes and more asphalt doesn’t solve anything…ask LA. They learned the hard way and have been expanding their rail network since 1990. Having 10 lanes go east and west doesn’t solve a thing. Look at NY, Chicago, Boston, DC, etc….do you think they have roads with 10 lanes??? No. They expand their rail lines. If you don’t like it, get on the train. Its faster, cheaper, saves gas and you can actually get work done without getting into an accident. Until Atlanta builds a real rail network, it will always be classified as a second tier town.
And for all you people that complain about crime, get on the train in NYC or DC or Boston…millions take those trains every single day and they are very safe. Fact is, people want to live near the train stations because its convenient. Major business centers and residential centers have grown up around train stations in NY, DC, etc.. Security cameras, police, etc are all over the place…very rarely does anything bad happen compared to the volume of people using the trains.
Centrist
June 30th, 2012
10:48 am
It is not just the Tea party members who do not trust this added tax. Politicians have put the transportation priority too low on our current taxpaying list in favor of their pet projects. The added TSPLOST plan came first, and many lists were massaged only to curry favor to special interest political friends and contributors. Lots of non-Tea party supporters have seen through the veil of deception, and oppose this added tax which is non-productive.
Only the most liberal voters who have never seen a tax they won’t approve, and special interests (hence politicians) who will benefit greatly via taxpayers are fighting for this boondoggle.
common sense
June 30th, 2012
10:48 am
If North Fulton would have just remained apart of Atlanta this wouldn’t have ever been a problem. They formed these other cities without purposely to sepparate them from other parts of the area (and yes race and income played a factor in this). Marta needs to be expanded and there should not be any arguments at all. As for road construction…no one seems to have any problems when GA 400 is widened. What the focus should be is why we have to vote on this anyway, when gas tax, portions of sales tax, GA Lottery all are suppose to fund transportation projects throughout the State. We should be blaming those idiots running our state, like our last governor, current governor and all of republicans. I wanna know where the hell is all that money going?????
Not buying it
June 30th, 2012
10:52 am
I’ll be voting no on TSPLOST.
A) I do not believe this tax will ever sunset. It’s a lie politician will tell to get what they want, then soon forget ala Ga 400.
B) Until the state legislatures get real about supporting a true regional transportation system without taking all the power from the 2 counties that have supported it for 40 years. Or just get out of the way and let us finish building it without unreal restrictions.
I’m sick of hearing about the need for local control as they are hell bent on wrestling said control from the locals. Also tired of hearing the state should not be subsidizing mass transit so they deny Marta yet find state money to subsidize bus service from their counties.
Mr. KnowitAll
June 30th, 2012
11:01 am
Metro Atlanta is a collection of suburbs. We are not a compacted metro area like NYC, Chicago, London, Paris or the other handful of successful transit systems. Even those require massive taxpayer financial support.
To make MARTA service the whole metro area, and make it a viable alternative to cars would cost $100 BILLION or more. MARTA was destined for failure the day it was born.
The answer is to embrace what metro Atlanta is–a collection of suburbias. It is the lifestyle we chose to live and why we stay here.
Why not make congestion solutions map up with what we have, who we are and what we want, instead of trying to social engineer solutions that do not, and will NEVER, solve congestion?
ryan
June 30th, 2012
11:03 am
Galloway is such a liberal clown. I live in Buckhead and receive no representation (thanks Ed Lindsey) after this weeks decision to add the biggest tax increase in American history (thanks John Roberts) there is no way I am ever voting for another. I am so sick of the class warfare and the games Democrats are playing.
I will as many other business owners be reducing future hiring to try and cope with Obamacare, with regards to transit there is no trust because the corruption in Metro politics is too widespread.
Congrats America on the 2008 election you now buried the country’s superpower status
yellowdog
June 30th, 2012
11:09 am
jim just didnt throw outa note about race; its simply the truth; they hate the president; they hate marta because it will bring african americans to cobb and cherokee county; this state has to join the 21st century; its backwards enuf without denying expanding and growing our transportation needs. the republicans only want to use our taxes to defeat roe against wade; continue unwanted wars; defeat gay marriage and further all their own social agendas. this is real life…..SPLOST was passed for just these kinds of things; i.e. capital improvements to improve quality of life for our citizens; you just dont get it; we are already decaying our infrastructure because we dont want to pay taxes to do it; get over it. once again they dont have a plan in place of splost…..or anything else. grow up; all of you above except for one or two prove the point that jim makes about black and white; this country could fall on that attitude……beginning with the tea party who would rather do nothing……..aargh
RAMZAD
June 30th, 2012
11:11 am
Ryan; I am delighted that you are so angry and uber frustrated. I hope more Right Wing zealots take the pills you are. You are a fool if you believe you can cut your way to prosperity. It seems to me that
the next 4-6 to six years will be very difficult for you. You earned it well with your bankrupt me me me thinking.
James
June 30th, 2012
11:13 am
We don’t have a transporation problem, we have a land use problem. There is no amount of money that will allow us to continue to buy houses in old cow pastures further and further away from jobs and activities. As long as the average resident of the metro continues to increase the length of their commutes and to make most of it primarily on old roads that were built for rural agriculture, we’ll have more tranportation projected needed than we can ever afford.
TSPLOST does absolutely nothing to address this. Zero. It’s a very expensive bandaid on a wide open axe wound. The underlying problem must be addressed but that would require courage and hard work from the legislature who is more interested in getting drunk every night and having sex with lobbyist than actually serving the people who elected them.
As for the individual, you can do your part by NOT LIVING AN HOUR or more away from your job and the activities you participate in. That my friends is the ultimate in personal responsibility. Too bad for most in this state, personal responsibilty is just a meaningless buzz word. Don’t want to pay for more roads and transit? Stop creating the demand for it! Otherwise you are just another welfare queen looking to the big government to take care of the problem you’ve personally created for yourself. Parasites!
Rich
June 30th, 2012
11:18 am
Trust – Go no farther that GA-400
DannyX
June 30th, 2012
11:20 am
To say that race is not a part of just about every single issue in Georgia is just plain crazy.
North Fulton Republicans blatantly flaunt it all the time. They are up in arms over MARTA management and lack of representation. They scream about the incompetence of the county government and complain that their tax dollars are being diverted away from them.
However, on the state level silence. The Georgia DOT is incompetent, they make MARTA seem like a well oiled machine. The folks in north Fulton never, ever bring up the fact that 35% of all gas tax revenue collected in metro-Atlanta is siphoned off to other parts of the state. They never mention the federal funds that also get siphoned off to other parts of Georgia.
Sorry north Fulton, MARTA is not the cause of your problems, stop the whining. Go after your Republican politicians that continue to allow rural Georgia to sponge off your tax dollars.
Wake up to the fact that while rural Georgia was getting fancy 4 lane highways where they weren’t needed local developers were developing every inch of land making new freeways that you love so much impossible.
everyone's mom
June 30th, 2012
11:25 am
It’s race-mongering journalism like this that stokes the fires of racism.
I am not thinking one bit about race in my decision not to support this new tax. I live in North Fulton and just want to be able to get back and forth to work or anywhere else I want to go without sacrificing undue hours in the car.
If we are going to talk about trust, we can’t do so without mentioning the lie that has been perpetuated on everyone who uses Georgia 400. After that massive deceit, how are we ever to believe anything that Big Brother promises us about a transportation tax or issue?
The only bone that we’ve been thrown at all on 400 is to utilize emergency lanes in the morning commute…lanes that have to be merged into and out of. As far as I can see, this is not doing much to improve the plight of the commuter…but endangers any metro Atlantan who might one day need the services of an emergency vehicle during those times. To put it succinctly, the shortsightedness of this practice will put lives at risk. It is only a matter of time.
Read my above comments carefully. They do not have a single thing to do with race. They have everything to do with trust, however.
PD
June 30th, 2012
11:30 am
Just fix MARTA! Extend lines North, NW, NE, W and E. These are all of the choke spots entering the city. They also should consider a commuter rail line from areas further out. (like the L.I.R.R in NY).
This is unfortunately a product white-flight in Georgia. Urban Sprawl is real people and Jim Galloway hit the nail on the head with the issues. Honestly, it is time for the solutions to come about without bickering because it is affecting everyone White and Black.
Proud Voter
June 30th, 2012
11:31 am
T-splost is a fair tax because it is a sales tax and anybody who spends money in the region will leave that sales tax in that region for roads and bridges. T-splost revenue never goes into the general fund. DOT has no jurisdiction over any of the t-splost money. Why would you not want to improve the area where you live? Good grief! Look at what t-splost really is, not what has been or should have been, but look at the t-splost revenue itself. The above arguements are moot points when you don’t use tunnel vision to view it.
Rich
June 30th, 2012
11:33 am
It is not about race, it is about years of mismanagement. Take Gwinnett, the county commissioner never saw a development that they did not like. Land zoned for 1 house per acre was rezoned for 4 (or more) houses per acre without concern about roads or schools. Would MARTA be useful in Gwinnett? Maybe? But where can I go on MARTA? Braves game? No (there is a bus, but they keep threating to stop it). Why was a MARTA stop not built at the staduim? City of Atlanta owned the parking lots. If the governmet can show that they can manage what they have, then we might give them more to manage. Until then, I must vote no. Not based on race.
MiltonMan
June 30th, 2012
11:40 am
North Fulton is screwed by the idiots running Fulton County. We pay the penny sales tax to MARTA for exactly what??? A couple of parking lots ran by MARTA.
Let’s not forget how the good ‘ole GOP screwed us even further by keeping the GA 400 toll.
I will be voting no for the piece of garbage.
MiltonMan
June 30th, 2012
11:46 am
“DOT has no jurisdiction over any of the t-splost money
That is a lie. The DOT is given the authority the divvy up the monies to the counties & cities.
PD
June 30th, 2012
11:47 am
400 will forever be a toll road because it is overused.
R.Lamar Smith
June 30th, 2012
11:50 am
We need to quit talking about traffic and talk about a 12.5% tax increase in the city of Atlanta which has a high sales tax already. It’s too late to pile on more sales tax since the schools etc have already been extended. In Manhattan the sales tax it 8.875% and with this increase we would be paying 9%. It’s just too much.
J
June 30th, 2012
11:53 am
@KnowItAll Chicago and London are spread out as much as Atlanta, and they have great public transit. Heck, you can travel to/from Chicago to Indiana, across state lines, with ease. You can catch a train between London and Paris, across countries, and arrive in 2:20. Other countries promote bike share programs and motorbike use. Here, you can’t even get around within a county on public transit, let alone from county to county.
To me, the problem always has been the low class stigma some people associate with mass transit and the poor regional planning the area has historically had. How can you have good public transport without a unified plan covering the whole metro area? The answer is not more roads, unless they lead to a transit station.
PD
June 30th, 2012
11:54 am
Crazy how the mistakes of the 1970’s are still hurting this amazing area of town. Now it is muddled up in nonsensical answers of HOV lanes with no HOV exits, mixed use communities, trolleys and emergency lane usage.
Corrupt taxing politician
June 30th, 2012
11:55 am
IF YOU TRUST POLITICIANS, THEN VOTE YES.
I DONT AND WILL VOTE NO.
HALF THE MONEY RAISED WILL NOT BE USED FOR TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS.
PD
June 30th, 2012
11:56 am
Awesome cities with great transportation: London, D.C. New York, Chicago Paris, Hong Kong and Japan. We need to take some notes.
PD
June 30th, 2012
11:58 am
Everything is done through politics, through proper politics. If you demonize everything you will get nothing. So Atlantans stop being so damn negative!
Sourgrapes
June 30th, 2012
11:58 am
One major reason I’m voting against this one: They lied about GA-400 tolls. End of story.
Georgiavet
June 30th, 2012
12:00 pm
Jim, you should know it isn’t racial – it is purely a matter of Fulton and DeKalb not being willing to have capital improvements added to the rail line for us to try to support when it is already in trouble in spite of the sales tax we’re paying. Either put in a region-wide rail tax that includes MARTA or leave rail to continue deteriorating.
Bill from Atlanta
June 30th, 2012
12:01 pm
I’m voting no in July because I don’t trust the government. 400 toll funds misused by Barnes and promises broken by Perdue. I’m also going to do everything I can to see that Deal is not reelected. These administrators with the state government are irresponsible and two faced.
PD
June 30th, 2012
12:03 pm
Stalemate!
Proud Voter
June 30th, 2012
12:20 pm
Miltonman: I don’t know where you got your information, but you need to get a reliable source. DOT DOES NOT have any jurisdiction over the t-splost money. What part of the fair tax stays in the region and is spent by a panel of members who LIVE IN the region do you not understand? This is a new fair concept for improving the roads and bridges in a certain region, financed by the fair sales tax collected in that region. Get your facts straight before you begin spouting misinformation. Please.
Going Right
June 30th, 2012
12:25 pm
As an admitted far-right conservative I nonetheless cannot accept Gullible’s reasons for a possible failure of the TSPLOST vote. My reasons are not only a distrust of governing bodies (and that includes REPUBLICAN-RUN CITIES/COUNTIES) it is that there will be too much emphasis placed on padding some developer, contractor, or paver’s pockets. As I stated in another blog, Why on God’s earth do we need a “Belt Line?” Why do we have budgeted $$ for the absolutely useless, $$-wasting Gwinnett Transit System?
I, personally – and I know many, many conservative non-”Tea Party” individuals that could give less of a rat’s a$$ about politics, race (gotta love how Gullible throws that in!), or the supposed fight between the ITP’s and the OTP’s. It’s the George Washington’s and Abe Lincoln’s I’m more concerned with.
Again, I aks> Just WHO BENEFITS FROM THIS MONSTROSITY?
Kim
June 30th, 2012
12:27 pm
Everytime this comes up, everyone starts screaming racism because we don;t want Marta in our neighborhood. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with crime. We “racists” sit on 400 every day becasue we want to be as far away as possible from the criminal element allowed to run rampant in this town. Most crimes in this city are committed by welfare rats. That’s not racism, it’s a FACT. I don’t hear about gangs of white people robbing people of their cell phones in the middle of the day. Right now, the Northside is relatively safe because of the lack of public transportation.
In addition, the 400 toll will be the death knell to this project. We were promised that the toll would end as soon as the road was paid for. Instead, we were forced, illegally, to pay for Atlantic Station. If we vote yes, we will get nothing, and all will be diverted, as usual, to the southside where most people do not work or pay taxes. We are sick and tired of being stolen from and lied to.
Keep calling us racists, we don’t care because right now you cannot get here without a car, and that’s the way we want to keep it.
Curzen
June 30th, 2012
12:27 pm
Marta is doing badly with a 1% tax. Dekalb just noticed they have a gaping hole in their school budget. I don’t think I trust them with handling the revenue another 1% tax responsibly at this point. VOTE NO.
hiram
June 30th, 2012
12:28 pm
PD
June 30th, 2012
11:56 am
“Awesome cities with great transportation: London, D.C. New York, Chicago Paris, Hong Kong and Japan. We need to take some notes.”
All three of the U.S. cities that your cited made the top 10 list of “Most Traffic-Jammed Cities in America” – Atlanta wasn’t on the list.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2012/05/25/the-most-traffic-jammed-cities-in-america/
Sally
June 30th, 2012
12:30 pm
How quickly can they come after Dekalb County? If I thought voting for ANYTHING would strip Dekalb County of ANY control over ANYTHING I’d be the first one in line to vote come voting day. It doesn’t matter what color your skin is. When you have a job and you don’t do it well you lose that job. Period.
Gail
June 30th, 2012
12:30 pm
Metro Atlanta needs a regional transportation system if it is to continue to grow and prosper. I, like several others that have commented will also be voting NO. This does nothing to address this issue. MARTA needs to be to extended to all of the Metro counties. All the counties need to participate to help ease the traffic.
Kim
June 30th, 2012
12:30 pm
One more thing…for all you new arrivals trying to turn my city into NY or Chicago…if you don’t like the way things are done in Atlanta, Delta is ready when you are and 75 goes both directions.
Sqirmin'
June 30th, 2012
12:31 pm
The problem is trust, but trust in the GA DOT. I don’t trust them. Just look at the GA400 toll lie and the HOT lane fiasco. That’s enough to tell you the DOT lies to us. They need to be disbanded and restructured before I vote to give them MORE money.
k. rasheed
June 30th, 2012
12:32 pm
Vote No to the Transportation “Tax”. If the suburbanites and their corporate employers want better transportation systems move back into the city. I do not support paying for their greed and ignorance!
Lugnut
June 30th, 2012
12:33 pm
Vote NO. Then vote out all those that put this vote up for a vote to begin with. Name names. Vote then out, starting with the Governor that forgot to tell us he was bankrupt.
Gail
June 30th, 2012
12:34 pm
Enter your comments here
Melaine
June 30th, 2012
12:34 pm
Race? Republican? Democrat? Tea Party? It does not matter. The list was drafted by politicians and the trust factor is huge with the T-SPLOST. The list is some major projects interjected with wish lists for politician’s districts so they can crow about what they get and so many of the projects will have NO impact on commute time or gridlock. The WSJ had an article recently, that rated states on corruption and lack of transparency. Guess who had the worst grade? http://247wallst.com/2012/03/22/americas-most-corrupt-states/ The push for this tax on top of a bad economy and sales taxes already in place with the lack of trust for our government to truly spend billions wisely is too much to ask of us. This push for the T-SPLOST will be reenacted in 10 years if it does pass because this is only the first installment of a 30 year sales tax and spend program. Another concern that the politicians should have, if this does pass, how will this affect any future SPLOST referendums for local education, new jails, transportation, etc.? The threat of raising property taxes to fill the coffers for more projects will only work for so long.
PD
June 30th, 2012
12:39 pm
@hiram
The point I am making is fix the public transportation. The roads will eventually get like those cities if they do not .
Ga Values
June 30th, 2012
12:43 pm
If you think the $600,000,000.00 that Reed’s cronies will steal on the belt/wasteline will improve your commute vote for this rip off.
VOTE NO FOR WASTE, GRAFT & CORRUPTION
Auntie Christ
June 30th, 2012
12:43 pm
It appears almost every aspect of the issue has been adduced here and discussed-very intelligently too, for a change (I guess the fanatics and frothing at the mouth crowd decided to let ryan speak for them while they slept in today). N Fulton and N DeKalb residents have legitimate gripes regarding MARTA and it doesn’t have anything to do with racism, but with MARTA treating them like ugly step children. Meanwhile here in Decatur I feel I have a legitimate gripe that Cobb, Gwinnett and Clayton rejected MARTA years ago and denied us the opportunity to have a world class rapid transit system by now, and want me to help them with another 1% of my money to catch up. These are good repubs that don’t like government assistance, yet want me to subsidize their life style choices. The same goes for the developers who built offices and strip malls and were not required by the politicians to do any infrastructure improvements to accomodate the increased traffic. Am I now expected to pay for their shortsightedness?
The idea of splitting Fulton into two counties will probably fly, because the republicans would love nothing better than to see the Black democratic power structure in metro Atlanta emasculated. They get the benefit of calling it ‘politics’ instead of what it really is, race based.
So just what the state that has more counties than any other state in the nation needs, another county, to further dilute their tax base and create another political fiefdom to divide the citizenry. This thought, along with the divisiveness seen here leads me to look forward to watching the political battles that will be unfolding in the 11 other regions of T-SPLOST. It will be better than the super bowl to watch reps from the postage stamp counties down south battle it out for $$ for their cronies who are going to widen and pave roads going nowhere, that benefit no one except donors to their campaigns. Should be interesting.
Ga Values VOTE NO FOR WASTE, GRAFT & CORRUPTION
June 30th, 2012
12:44 pm
Just added to my name… the name says it all
hiram
June 30th, 2012
12:46 pm
Here’s the main reason that you are having this discussion here today – the caliber of people that you keep electing to run the state’s affairs. Sonny was just the warm up act for the “Real Deal”.
In September 2009, Gov. Sonny Perdue and two men who run the governor’s trucking company met in the Georgia Ports Authority in Savannah with a half-dozen state employees.
“Gov. Sonny Perdue’s businesses “are laying the groundwork so that when the Governor leaves office they will be in a position to start up an operation,” Chip Hawkins, the ports sales manager, wrote in an August 2010 e-mail.”
“Gov. Sonny Perdue and his business representatives have held several meetings with port officials to learn how they can grow Perdue’s grain and trucking companies.”
“The governor wanted to know if there are any particular services which we feel could help them here,” wrote Chip Hawkins, a sales manager at the ports, in an internal memo dated Sept. 21, 2009.
http://www.ajc.com/news/perdue-draws-ethics-focus-740166.html
Ga Values VOTE NO FOR WASTE, GRAFT & CORRUPTION
June 30th, 2012
12:46 pm
Enter your comments here
Ga Values VOTE NO FOR WASTE, GRAFT & CORRUPTION
June 30th, 2012
12:47 pm
next try
Ga Values .................. VOTE NO FOR WASTE, GRAFT & CORRUPTION
June 30th, 2012
12:47 pm
2
#1 Foxy Lady
June 30th, 2012
12:49 pm
RAMZAD nailed you, ryan. You and your type are whiny little sheep-parrots regurgitating your AM radio 2nd-rate steer-chior conductors.
Fairness
June 30th, 2012
12:54 pm
It is my understanding that Republicans suppose to be the party of no new taxes, this is a 7 billion dollars tax increase on the citizens of the metro area that we not unlock the gridlock. The only thing that will unlock gridlock of this magnitude is mass transit that most do not want and the other arc that will keep most trucks and interstate traffic away from the metro area. This tax increase is about further enriching the friends of politicians on both sides of the isle. The latest research has shown that once the billions are spent, only about five minutes will be reduced from the average commute. Moreover, if the metro area passes a tax increase to built more roads, while our schools are suffering from the lack of revenue, then the voters of Georgia will become the laughing stock of the nation. I say, no new taxes, please join me in voting no.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 30th, 2012
12:57 pm
{{”In exchange for increased north Fulton authority over MARTA, the transit agency gets more control over its own cash flow for three years. And that should be just enough time for state to establish a bona fide, regional transit system, Lindsey said….Who controls it, and who pays for it, remain open questions.”}}
Attempting to institute a one-size-fits-all regional transit solution to Metro Atlanta’s transportation challenges is the wrong approach given the polarized politics and the mistrust of government (especially the mistrust of any potential regional initiative).
Any potential solution to this region’s transportation woes should likely involve transportation corridors (I-75/I-575 Northwest, GA 400 North, I-20 West, I-85 Northeast, etc) as opposed to trying to lump everyone together in a politically and socially-awkward and incompatible one-size-fits-all regional approach as the conservative OTP suburbs and exurbs and liberal ITP urban intown neighborhoods clearly have different transportation and political needs.
OTP suburbs and exurbs need a maximum road-heavy solution, ITP needs an alternative transportation and transit-heavy solution.
The regional approach seems to substantially disregard those differing logistical and political needs.
Auntie Christ
June 30th, 2012
12:57 pm
Kim wrote, after her racist rant: “Keep calling us racists, we don’t care .”
Thamks, kim, that’s very refreshing. Most of the time when we call a racist a racist, we are accused of playing the race card.
Shar
June 30th, 2012
12:59 pm
I’m an on-the-liberal-side, Intown voter who hails from Manhattan, where the sprawl exceeds Atlanta’s and where people of all stripes have long since accepted the fact that without public transportation the whole city simply stops. In fact, the same fears of access by undesirables prompted the East Siders to voiciferously oppose a subway line on the Upper East Side, which has left that area with only busses and which is now being addressed for billions with the Second Avenue line.
I was so pleased when the TIA was first brought up, as I thought we could achieve a rational transit mix of EFFECTIVE public transportation with roads. Then the list came out. The legislators passed the buck, the counties fought for their own pet projects, the contractors have already been given their payback from the politicians and the money has been divvied up. The only people left out of the process were those of us who travel in metro Atlanta. They forgot to make this have any discernable effect on traffic or provide vision and direction for real, usable public transit.
What a disappointment. What a disgusting melee of selfishness and greed. What arrogance, to pour money into utterly transparent boondoggle payoffs like Sonny Perdue’s very own four-lane to Nowhere Except His Own Property and to break every promise and extend the toll on 400 and then turn around and tell voters to trust these same administrators with an enormous slush fund even though they are so incompetent that “there is no Plan B”.
The Metro Chamber, like their echo chamber Proud Voter on this blog, wail that this tax must be passed because “Atlanta has to do something.” Yes, but it has to be the right thing. That means creating a plan that delivers value to those who must pay it. We need to do better than have a handful of commuters see a 6% decrease in commute time – in ten years, without factoring in any increase in traffic rate – while the rest of us see nothing.
The powers that be have done everything they can to throw this vote – a lying, biased and illegal “preamble” on the ballot, strong-arming the employees of businesses who have paid to play, an election date that guarantees the lowest possible turnout – because they simply cannot justify this package of fraud. There is lots here for those with their hands out, but nothing for anyone else. It’s really rather hopeful that voters are finally seeing through Business As Usual.
Mark
June 30th, 2012
1:09 pm
RAMZAD: You haven’t been paying attention to the news. Within there past year or so an East Point bank was robbed in broad daylight. The criminals got away on MARTA, the East Point MARTA train station was right across the street.
I’ve been in Atlanta long enough to have witnessed the lie about the GA400 toll. I’m not playing along this time or any other time.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 30th, 2012
1:14 pm
Gail
June 30th, 2012
12:30 pm
{{{”Metro Atlanta needs a regional transportation system if it is to continue to grow and prosper. I, like several others that have commented will also be voting NO. This does nothing to address this issue. MARTA needs to be to extended to all of the Metro counties. All the counties need to participate to help ease the traffic.”}}}
Metro Atlanta does not necessarily need a regional transportation system, it needs a competent (and responsible and trustworthy) state government to stop trying to push its responsibility off on someone else to perform, do its job and take charge of the transportation infrastructure.
Transportation Referendum - Support! - Page 14 - City-Data Forum
June 30th, 2012
1:16 pm
[...] "If the referendum for a transportation sales tax in metro Atlanta fails this month, the cause is likely to be a lack of trust. Or, if you prefer to keep things on a more civilized plane, it creates a divide between Democrats in Fulton and DeKalb counties on one hand, and Republicans in the other eight counties on the other…" Trust and the transportation sales tax | Political Insider [...]
hiram
June 30th, 2012
1:17 pm
Melaine
June 30th, 2012
12:34 pm
“The WSJ had an article recently, that rated states on corruption and lack of transparency. Guess who had the worst grade? ”
Melanie, You hit the nail on the head. Sonny reset the bar for graft and corruption in Georgia government. When it became clear that the state’s citizens weren’t going to hold him accountable, that was an open invitation for every local good ol’ boy con artist in the state to enter politics and hang our their for sale signs.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 30th, 2012
1:20 pm
Kim
June 30th, 2012
12:30 pm
{{{”One more thing…for all you new arrivals trying to turn my city into NY or Chicago…if you don’t like the way things are done in Atlanta, Delta is ready when you are and 75 goes both directions.”}}}
I agree, but the only problem is that Atlanta is already in the leagues of a Chicago and even a New York by virtue of its regional population of 6 million people and being home to a dozen Fortune 500 companies and the busiest passenger airport on the planet.
Our transportation problems are going to be dealt with one way or another and having a less-than-helpful incompetent state legislature does not help with our building logistical challenges.
Proud Voter
June 30th, 2012
1:22 pm
Legislators have no vote on the t-splost expenditures. The local elected officials serving on the regional t-splost round table are the only ones who have a vote on how the money is spent. Get involved with your region and you’ll know this and can have a positive impact on what happens in your region. If you keep complaining from the comfort of your couch and air-conditioning, nothing is gained for your region. Are you part of the problem or part of the solution?
LMAO
June 30th, 2012
1:24 pm
What the SOBs in North Fulton don’t understand about MARTA is Unincorporated South Fulton gets less service for the same penny. I’m liberal and I’m voting NO because were not getting anything in the TSPLOST except more roads for North Metro and a damn trail in Atlanta. Neither does anything to improve my commute. Regional rail transportation is the real answer.
Proud Voter
June 30th, 2012
1:25 pm
Why would a fair tax be a bad tax? Why not be able to keep all of any fund in the region where it is collected? If your region vetoes t-splost, you’re going to become known as one more dumb Georgia county who failed to look at the bigger picture to improve itself.
T-splost is a chance to improve your region without waiting twenty years for DOT to getting around to looking at your local project. By all means, if you want to have a say-so as to how the t-splost money is to be spent in your region, then get off the couch and get involved. Whatever is good in your region right now was planned and financed many years ago so that you could benefit from others’ ambition and foresight.
Ignorant does’t know; stupid refuses to learn. Don’t be stupid.
Dj
June 30th, 2012
1:26 pm
I don’t want any new transportation taxes until the GA 400 toll is taken down as it was already supposed to be. From diverting the 400 toll to another reason to keep charging people only lets me know that there will never be an end to the new tax being charged for “transportation”.
Centrist
June 30th, 2012
1:29 pm
@ Melaine – Your link is NOT from the Wall Street Journal. The grossly biased study you reference is from the very liberal “Center for Public Integrity” largely funded by George Soros – it has no credibility.
hiram
June 30th, 2012
1:29 pm
@will the last…
Garbage in, garbage out – the first step is purging the legislature of any politician who is not willing to match the South Carolina legislature’s acceptance of zero, zilch, nada gifts from lobbyists.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 30th, 2012
1:29 pm
Shar
June 30th, 2012
12:59 pm
Excellent comments and an excellent rundown of the situation.
Kris
June 30th, 2012
1:34 pm
Trust the Governor..Political LIES I tell YA… .yep I will stop the TOLL on GA 400…
Super DEAL Yep. OH I see nothing wrong with the GA 400 troll..
Gov and thieving Legislature (GOP). 1 cent we will build massive roads and end congestion…YEP
TRUTH:::: Behind closed doors…. but we will line our pockets as well as our cronies.
Vote not NO but HELL NO on the SCAM. Impeach DEAL and his cronies.
Re=elect OBAMA 2012
wishing
June 30th, 2012
1:34 pm
Rail. Build rail. Plan rail. Subsidize rail if you need to. We need rail.
DeKalb Wonkette
June 30th, 2012
1:35 pm
Not a tea partier; not black and not a tree-hugger but will vote NO on T-SPLOST. Here’s why:
1) The business community wants me to pay for improvements that benefit them.
2) EVERYTHING in Georgia is underfunded! Why does transportation/transit/local improvements merit its own separate tax? (Actually its a 3rd tax after the Gas Tax and MARTA penny).
3) I already pay a penny sales tax for MARTA.
4) As a DeKalb County property owner why would I trust the county with any more money? They can’t do appraisals correctly and the school board situation will depress actual values even lower than we have now.
5) I don’t want to live through non-stop construction over the next ten years for projects that may not even be sustainable if, as a recent report by Harvard indicates, the future is more about sprawl after the housing crisis ends.
hiram
June 30th, 2012
1:37 pm
@centist
Shooting the messenger isn’t necessary with this issue. Any reasonably observant Georgia citizen doesn’t need George Soros to tell them that our government is corrupt. It’s documented six ways from Sunday.
Chris Sanchez
June 30th, 2012
1:38 pm
This TSPLOST will be defeated in July for the exact reason suggested in this article. Trust? There is no trust. The GA 400 toll has clearly demonstrated that once a transportation tax is in place it will never be allowed to be removed. There will always be another excuse to renew it. There will never be enough money to satisfy the lust for spending of our politicians.
Do you want the people of metro Atlanta to trust any group that says a new tax is the answer to a given problem? Be worthy of that trust and keep your word. Is that a skeptical perception? Probably. But I am certain of one thing. That perception will not change until our politicians give We the People a reason to change them. Right now, the trust account is well overdrawn!
HENRY
June 30th, 2012
1:40 pm
NO MORE TAX….THE HIGHWAY 400 TOLL WAS SUPPOSE TO SUNSET AND IT DID NOT….WE WILL NOT TRUST YOU AGAIN………..SCREW ALL OF ‘EM
Lester Maddox
June 30th, 2012
1:41 pm
I live in North Atlanta; the black politicians don’t just screw the folks in North Fulton. In Buckhead we pay the bulk of Atlanta’s property tax and and get nothing for it. They build sidewalks and pave roads in the worst parts of town and we get nothing here. West Paces Ferry Road is the worst pothole farm in this city. This disaster road project on Peachtree Rpad has been going on for five years and its still not finished (I never see more than about 5 people working on it every day).
How about a tax on big rims, gold grills, hot fish and chicken wings to pay for MARTA?
A Conservative Voice
June 30th, 2012
1:48 pm
Folks, this is nothing more than a “State Level” Jobs Program. When the ten years (I know, it’s a forever tax) is up, no more than a third of the work will be completed because most of the money will have been spent on administrative costs, i. e., well, you know.
jonny creek
June 30th, 2012
1:49 pm
Big Tax=Big, Intrusive government. Simple huh?
Kris
June 30th, 2012
1:55 pm
@ Lester Maddox
“How about a tax on big rims, gold grills, hot fish and chicken wings to pay for MARTA?”
And while you at it a TAX on pick handles.
Can we go ahead and VOTE NO and get it over with.
Proud Voter
June 30th, 2012
1:57 pm
Uh, “A Conservative Voice,” where did you get this very wrong information? Where is the data to prove this one-third mess? Everything I have said can be verified by those who are literate and can read the t-splost plan without tunnel vision. Disagreeing with t-splost is one thing; blatant spreading of lies about t-splost is just wrong.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 30th, 2012
2:06 pm
Proud Voter = T-SPLOST Sock Puppet
Highway halcyon
June 30th, 2012
2:08 pm
The people who like to pound away at GDOT are going to flip next Friday when the agency awards a $63,000,000 contract to repave I-285. Why? They only got ONE bid–from a joint venture of the state’s two largest contractors. Kosher? Smelly? Who am I to say? You decide.
Auntie Christ
June 30th, 2012
2:09 pm
lester mad ax says: “How about a tax on big rims, gold grills, hot fish and chicken wings to pay for MARTA?
You left water melon out of your racist stereotype. you’re slipping. Here’s a better idea, tax stupidity. Your contribution alone would be enough to fund t-splost.
LMAO
June 30th, 2012
2:09 pm
On the otherside of the issue regarding race. Stop worrying about what blacks are doing in Unincorporated South Fulton and Atlanta. Start being concerned about your Asian (Indians included) neighbors. They are your competition and taking over your schools, buying up homes and land. Look at the top 10% of your schools, more than half are decendants of Asian ancestry.
trailboss
June 30th, 2012
2:10 pm
I’m sick of people in government saying how Black people if fact I’m voting NO I don’t care about the transit problem. I’m still P O how MARTA bill tricked us.I don’t mind paying my fair share but man we are paying right now for A contractor all the way from Chicago to write me two parking ticket in one day down town, As far as I’m concern you can take mine out of the eighty dollars for my last visit down town. I will say this with all of the money they’re taking from contractors under the table I’m voting no for them eighty dollars.
Auntie Christ
June 30th, 2012
2:20 pm
lamo said: Start being concerned about your Asian (Indians included) neighbors. They are your competition and taking over your schools, buying up homes and land.
Gosh, I remember my ancestor Tecumseh telling me the same thing, except he said it would be white people who would take over the homes, land etc. How times have changed (or not).
Kris
June 30th, 2012
2:27 pm
IF these so called government officials are so DEAD (brain dead GOP ) against and have their panties in a wad because the passing of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), They are calling it a tax…THEN WHAT IS t-apLOST….A tax. A TAX just like the GA400 troll its for ever and ever.
Vote the GOP OUT and their tax
OBAMA 2012
Out by the Pond
June 30th, 2012
2:31 pm
Y many of the transit projects include operational subsidies for the first 10 years of operation. The law authorizing Tsplost forbids the tax to be extended. It allows for a new tax for a new list of projects. It also allows the setting up for each project that includes operational expenses a trust fund to cover an additional 10 years of operating expenses. If such a trust fund is or should we say when each trust fund is established how much money will be withheld from construction projects? So the true cost of the street car to no where is actually larger than project, even before the cost over runs that will be a part of every one of these project.
The more I look into this slush fund for developers the more it stinks. No wonder the board or realtors is pushing the passage of this regressive tax increase.
Proud Voter
June 30th, 2012
2:38 pm
“The law authorizing Tsplost forbids the tax to be extended. It allows for a new tax for a new list of projects. It also allows the setting up for each project that includes operational expenses a trust fund to cover an additional 10 years of operating expenses.”
Out-by-the-pond . . . Where in the tsplost wording does it say this?
It doesn’t. That’s why nobody can find it to refute or validate your statement.
Come in from the heat, out-by-the-pond, you’re cooking your brain matter out there and you’re not making sense.
But . . . read the t-splost wording and make an educated negative opinion and we can talk about that. But made-up stuff is not a valid argument.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 30th, 2012
2:41 pm
Auntie Christ
June 30th, 2012
12:43 pm
{{{”Meanwhile here in Decatur I feel I have a legitimate gripe that Cobb, Gwinnett and Clayton rejected MARTA years ago and denied us the opportunity to have a world class rapid transit system by now, and want me to help them with another 1% of my money to catch up. These are good repubs that don’t like government assistance, yet want me to subsidize their life style choices.”}}}
You’ve got to remember that when the first MARTA votes were held back in the late 1960’s in which the MARTA referendum failed in all five counties including Fulton and DeKalb counties, that Clayton County was a predominantly white suburb that was popular with airport and airline employees, Cobb County was an even more predominantly white distant suburb with a exurban to semi-rural feel (sort of like Cherokee or Paulding counties are today) and less than a third of its current population of almost 700,000 people and Gwinnett was by all appearances a considered by all to a distant exurb that was almost completely rural and had only about less than one-eleventh of its current population of 810,000 people (Gwinnett only had about 70,000 people then and was similiar to far-exurban and mostly rural Jackson County up I-85 in Northeast Georgia).
Seeing as though that Clayton, Cobb and Gwinnett (and DeKalb) and all of Metro Atlanta were very different places when the first MARTA referendums were held back in the 1960’s and 70’s and that those counties would remain mostly rural, exurban and suburban for many years, unlike the increasingly urban communities that they are today, it wasn’t the rejection of MARTA in those then-rural, exurban and suburban counties that has retarded MARTA’s growth and quality-of-service so much as it has been the mismanagement, cronyism and incompetence on MARTA’s part to offer a high level-of-service to the areas in Fulton and DeKalb counties that it was allowed to serve.
Instead of worrying about the rejection of its service in the counties that did not want it, MARTA should have and could have been doing all that it could do to offer the highest level of service possible in the places in Fulton and DeKalb counties that did want it.
James
June 30th, 2012
2:43 pm
TPLOST is a lot of of money for not much. if our leaders had beem more focused on relieving traffic congestion and less focusing on re-engineering how Atlantan’s live and work, we might have a plan that would be worth the cost.
It’s just not this plan. We are not going to support a plan that siphon’s off so much money for political priorities and does not really unlock our traffic problems.
James
June 30th, 2012
2:53 pm
I don’t give a fig for you supporting my lifestyle choice, Auntie. You keep your money and I will keep mine.
But don’t try to siphon off my money to fund a train system that has been mismanged for decades that is more irrelevant with every passing year. The old model of jobs in the city center surrounded by bedroom communities died during the past couple of decades. We don’t need to go downtown to work any more. The jobs have steadily marched to the north for 30 years in Atlanta. Thirty years from now when the TSPLOST funded transit work is finally finished, this investment will look incredibly stupid and backwards.
BTW, take your bigotry and shove it. Fulton and DeKalb can keep pushing the victim rhetroic all they want. It’s not helping your argument much.
Abbie
June 30th, 2012
2:55 pm
That’s right: This is Atlanta so every “controversial” or “difficult” topic is about racism. That’s right. That’s the culture of the city. That’s also why the city of Atlanta will never become a progressive city. That’s why they haven’t. That’s why I hate the city, the lack of growth of Atlanta is all about “blame” to other areas that are just getting on with life and prosperity despite the complexion or culture of the citizens. N Fulton cities (like John’s Creek and Alpharetta with a widely varied demographics of race and cultures) are the examples of local business leaders striving to bring in industry and improve quality of life of ALL residents by “just getting it done”. Atlanta could have been a jewel in the south, but this focus on “poor me, racism” removes the motivation to fix their own problems and just to blame others. Galloway, you are WAY off the mark.
Fair and Balanced
June 30th, 2012
2:58 pm
Fine…let the TIA fail…and anyone who does not live in Fulton/Dekalb/City of Atlanta should have to pay a $10 fee (dedicated to MARTA funding) and have a sticker on their windshield to be able to park their car in any of the above municipalities. Those same people should be forced to pay 50 cents to $1 more to use MARTA…sounds like that would even things up rather quickly and give MARTA a nice revenue boost…
Fair and Balanced
June 30th, 2012
3:00 pm
@abbie
I would point to conservatism more than racism that keeps Atlanta down. Its a Rural/suburban vs urban
MM
June 30th, 2012
3:03 pm
In the 1960s and ‘70s political deals were made between white and black elites in order to keep the racial peace which resulted in Atlanta wrongly being named as “The City Too Busy To Hate.” The Atlanta Compromise was that 1) the Atlanta Public Schools system would be put under black control and 2) MARTA would be run mostly by blacks. These deals took the steam out of demands from non-elite blacks for power by creating a black middle class. These deals were made by the political elites below the radar of the public as the truly big deals always have been here.
Atlanta has lived with the benefits and costs of this so-called Atlanta Compromise for almost 50 years but now these agreements are coming apart. Publicity has touted the growing number of black millionaires but the black elites benefited at a tremendous cost to poor blacks. The APS scandal exposed for all to see the result of letting incompetent management destroy any possibility of a good education for generations of black kids. The price for the MARTA deal meant that public transportation would be limited to the inner core of counties effectively stranding generations of inner city blacks from the prosperity of the suburbs.
Nothing lasts forever and now things are changing. The old order has eroded away. The problems of poor black Atlantans are still with us but time has long since extinguished the fires of rebellion that at one time promised the possibility of meaningful change. Lester Maddox’s descendants now rule Georgia and truly courageous black leadership is nowhere to be found. For good and bad the new Transportation Bill will shift power away from MARTA. Even the state’s ruling rustics can see the value of the economic linkages between Atlanta and the rest of the state. It remains to be seen whether real change will happen at APS. As always nobody gives a damn about poor black kids.
Kim
June 30th, 2012
3:12 pm
The reason I said I don’t care if you call us racist IS because the race card is played constantly. When a liberal has no valid argument they scream racism. I know I’m not racist so the word doesn’t affect me one little bit.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 30th, 2012
3:16 pm
Another of MARTA’s fatal flaws has been the agency’s failure to index its fares to the cost of inflation over the years, just like the state failed to account for the cost of inflation by failing to index gas taxes by percentages instead of a set amount per-gallon (for example, in hindsight, it appears that the state gas tax should have been 7.5 percent as opposed to the diminishing returns that a set gas tax of 7.5 cents-per-gallon provides).
It MARTA had set their fares to rise with inflation over the years instead of purposefully trying to keep fares as low as possible to accommodate homeless and very low-income riders, they might be a much better financial position just like the Georgia Department of Transportation might be in a much better financial position if the gas tax had been pegged to the level of inflation by being collected as a percentage instead of a set amount of 7.5 cents-per-gallon that never changes, despite the price of gas about 10 times what it was in 1970.
If the price of gas had been set by a percentage instead of as a set price, the gas tax would also be collecting 10 times what it collected in 1970 to keep up with our current road infrastructure needs instead of generating diminishing returns each year.
It’s too late to adjust the gas tax to inflation by pegging it to be collected as a percentage of the total amount of gas purchased instead of the set amount of 7.5 cents-per-gallon, but it is not too late to better adjust the road-funding formula by abolishing the state gas tax on all Georgia drivers, substantially raising the gas tax that would remain only on out-of-state drivers and levying distance-based user fees on Georgia drivers instead of a gas tax.
The state should do something similar with transit funding by eliminating the 1% sales tax that residents of Fulton and DeKalb counties pay to fund MARTA and instead fund the operations of mass transit with a combination of distance-based user fees, public-private partnerships and Tax Increment Financing (property tax revenues from future development that pops along transit lines) by freeway corridor as opposed to trying to force everyone into a one-size-fits-all funding and logistical approach that clearly does not work and is not politically-feasible.
bu2
June 30th, 2012
3:20 pm
Lots of good comments.
Out by the pond makes a good point how substantial operating costs are built into the TSPLOST with no provision for operating these things beyond that period.
This is simply a bad project list. Those who say its the best we can do are part of the problem. We need to just say no to the politicians and developers. We need to demand more out of government instead of settling for projects that do little and waste much. This whole project list was done backwards. They came up with the money first instead of developing a coherent project list first and then winnowing it down. An article on the Belt Line called it a developers dream. If they want to re-engineer Atlanta, let Atlanta pay for it. Don’t tax us all for a questionable real estate development program. This list will keep us from ever solving the problems.
E. Newman
June 30th, 2012
3:33 pm
I will be voting against the bill because it contains too many road projects and not enough rail. I don’t view commuter buses as transit projects. Rail is a more permanent fix and cannot be rerouted or cut like MARTA’s bus routes.
Lester Maddox
June 30th, 2012
3:35 pm
For the record I enjoy a ripe mellon and would not want to pay additional tax on this.
Seriously, with the exception of Coke and Southern Company most of the big corporate headquarters are located on the north side (Home Depot in Smyrna; UPS GE Power System, Rubbermaid, Coke Enterprises in Sandy Spring and Roswel), so why do we need more MARTA train into the city?
People live on the northside for a reason; better government, less crime, better shopping, close to work, etc… Let us keep it this way, if Atlanta want to build a beltline to nowhere anybody works let them build it with their own money.
Auntie Christ
June 30th, 2012
3:37 pm
Dear James: you said “I don’t give a fig for you supporting my lifestyle choice, Auntie. You keep your money and I will keep mine.” I thought I made it clear that I was voting ‘no’ so your advice is redundant. But tho you don’t give a fig, your repub politician friends who are pushing this boondoggle sure want me to support your choices with my $$.
“The old model of jobs in the city center surrounded by bedroom communities died during the past couple of decades. We don’t need to go downtown to work any more.”
With such a narrow perspective, I would not expect you to support rapid rail. It may surprise you that there are 1000’s of young professionals in places like Atlantic Station, and downtown lofts who do need to get to Windward and the office parks in Dunwoody and P’tree Corners. There are sales people whose office is in Northlake who need to call on clients in Marietta. There are people from your neighborhood who attend events at the Fox and Ga dome, Braves, Hawks and Falcon games and pubs in Little Five Pts. who would love to leave their cars at home. There are moneyed people downtown who would like to visit specialty shops at Perimeter or Cumberland Malls and not have to plan on a 2 hour commute. Maybe you should revisit your model, and realize a transit system’s only function is not just to accomodate downtown corporations, but to increase freedom of movement and increased commerce.
And finally James, you too can take your racism and shove it.
Auntie Christ
June 30th, 2012
3:46 pm
Previously I said “a transit system’s only function is not just to accomodate downtown corporations, but to increase freedom of movement and increased commerce.”
I forgot to add, “and to allow inner city youths to come into lester mad ax and kim’s neighborhood to rape and kill.” That’s the primary tenet of our socialist, fascist, communist, athiest conspiracy, that Obama and I have concocted.
Jerry
June 30th, 2012
3:46 pm
I will not vote for the transportation tax. There are too many transit projects on the list that will just make it easier for people from the city to come up into the northern suburbs. Like Kim I sit on 400 everyday to get away from the criminal element in Atlanta. I don’t want to be their neighbors, I want to live as far away from them as possible, while still being able to commute to work. If the tax included widening 400 to 6 or 7 lanes in each direction and to take car of some of the other roads up here, without the transit element, I’d be more strongly inclined to vote for it. Instead, it’s just a ploy to allow southside criminals more access to more of the metro area and also for a bunch a square glassed hipsters to fool themselves into thinking they live in some northern city.
Just no. We don’t want it, nor do we need. We need to keep as many southsiders below I-20 as possible. They’ve already tried to encroach of Buckhead and this tax wouldjust allow them to swarm northward.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 30th, 2012
3:50 pm
Fair and Balanced
June 30th, 2012
2:58 pm
{{{”Fine…let the TIA fail…and anyone who does not live in Fulton/Dekalb/City of Atlanta should have to pay a $10 fee (dedicated to MARTA funding) and have a sticker on their windshield to be able to park their car in any of the above municipalities. Those same people should be forced to pay 50 cents to $1 more to use MARTA…sounds like that would even things up rather quickly and give MARTA a nice revenue boost…”}}}
First, seeing as though OTP suburbanites are currently up in arms over the prospect that a large part of the proposed regional T-SPLOST will go to fund MARTA, there’s no way politically that OTP suburbanites in Cobb and Gwinnett and exurbanites in Cherokee and Fayette would go for being charged any type of required fee or tax fund MARTA in any way, shape or form.
OTP suburbanites and exurbanites being required to pay taxes and fees that will go fund MARTA or any type of transportation or economic development initiative (like the Beltline or trolleys in the City of Atlanta) is just simply not politically feasible or doable.
Second, a 50-cent to $1.00 fare-increase on transit riders who are non-residents of Fulton and DeKalb without a corresponding substantial increase in taxes would be nowhere near enough to fund the true costs of providing mass transit service which is actually close to $13.00 per-passenger, meaning that a minimal increase in fares to only $3.00 to $3.50 one-way, while providing a substantial increase in revenues to MARTA, would not come anywhere near-close to helping fully fund MARTA’s cost of operations.
In Northern California BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) utilizes a distance-based fare system in which some trips, particularly cross-town trips to and from the San Francisco International Airport, are as high as $10.90 one-way and it still is not enough to fund the estimated $13.00/passenger cost of providing transit service, the rest of which is subsidized by the public through pretty substantially high property taxes.
http://www.bart.gov/tickets/calculator/index.aspx
{”$10.90 / $4.05*
One-way from
Pittsburg/Bay Point
to San Francisco Int’l Airport}
{*Senior, Youth and RTC Clipper fare. Restrictions apply. Read more}
Corruption fighter
June 30th, 2012
3:58 pm
Take away ga state income tax of 6% and i will support this tax increase – because then all the people on welfare and illegal aliens will pay” SOME TAX”
OTHERWISE I AM VOTING NO NO ON THIS TAX INCREASE.
I AM TAXED ENOUGH AND I DONT WANT TO CONTRIBUTE TO MARTA AND ATLANTA POLITICIANS PENSION PLANS.
TRANSPORTATION FUNDING IS A BIG LIE TO FOOL TAXPAYERS- MOST OF MONEY WILL BE USED FOR COVERING BUDGET GAPS.
BABY
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 30th, 2012
4:20 pm
Jerry
June 30th, 2012
3:46 pm
“People from the city” are already up in the Northern Suburbs in abundance as traditionally ultraconservative suburban Cobb County has a population of nearly 700,000 with many public high school clusters that are predominantly non-white (Pebblebrook HS, South Cobb HS, McEachern HS, Osborne HS, Campbell HS, Marietta HS).
While formerly exurban Gwinnett County has a population of over 810,000 people with a festering Latin American gang and drug cartel problem (one of the absolute worst in any metro area East of the Mississippi River and in the nation) and even more public high school clusters that are predominantly non-white (South Gwinnett HS, Shiloh HS, Parkview HS, Berkmar HS, Central Gwinnett HS, Meadowcreek HS, Norcross HS, Duluth HS, Peachtree Ridge HS) and a few more that are on the verge of becoming majority non-white (Grayson HS, Archer HS, Collins Hill HS, Dacula HS) as Gwinnett County has rather quickly evolved into one of the most-diverse counties in the entire nation.
Looks like “people from the city” already have found their way into the suburbs by using the same form of transportation that lily-white middle-class wannabe rich people (real rich people live behind walls and gates in exclusive subdivisions in multimillion-dollar homes unlike self-styled wannabes), cars as more crimes are committed using cars in Atlanta than are committed using MARTA.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 30th, 2012
4:33 pm
Jerry
June 30th, 2012
3:46 pm
Widening Georgia 400 to 6 or 7 lanes in each direction is just not financially or politicially feasible at this point as do you know how many people would be up in arms the first time that GDOT even suggested cutting down the tree buffer that lines both sides of GA 400, especially in a mature suburb like Sandy Springs in which the highway is lined with heavy residential development on both sides of the road?
And just-in-case you haven’t noticed, Southside criminals already have plenty of access to most of the metro area by way of cars as Metro Atlanta led the nation in bank robberies in 2007 with more bank hold-ups than traditional bank robbery capital Los Angeles, which annually leads THE WORLD in the amount of bank robberies committed and traditional suburban/exurban havens Cobb and Gwinnett counties aren’t exactly crime-free havens these days.
A B Normal
June 30th, 2012
4:45 pm
If Jim hadn’t made it about race in the story, one of you simpletons would have in the blog. The bottom line is this: The imbeciles we elected (yes, I voted in every election I had the opportunity to) have not been, and do not indicate they will become worthy of our trust to do the right things in this matter.
hiram
June 30th, 2012
4:45 pm
If you want to see Atlanta’s future, just take a trip to Los Angeles, where towns are segregated by ethnic origin – East L.A., Watts, Beverly Hills, etc.. All of them were founded and formerly populated by “lilly whites”. The melting pot utopia is pure fantasy, as this blog illustrates.
Tired of BS
June 30th, 2012
4:48 pm
Straight up….. just the same liberals pandering to the same minorities who always willing to sell their vote if it will insure they are able to continue to legally steal money from the good hard working folks. This is not about transportation…. it’s about power and vote buying.
Spare me the “you’re a racist”…. it’s old, tired, over used, and I’m just so tired of all the BS.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 30th, 2012
5:14 pm
hiram
June 30th, 2012
4:45 pm
{{{”If you want to see Atlanta’s future, just take a trip to Los Angeles, where towns are segregated by ethnic origin – East L.A., Watts, Beverly Hills, etc.. All of them were founded and formerly populated by “lilly whites”. The melting pot utopia is pure fantasy, as this blog illustrates.”}}}
You are very correct. They’ve got a name for the type of diversity that you describe in a major metro area like Los Angeles, it called a “polyglot”, which is how L.A. is often described as what is likely the most diverse city on earth, which is Atlanta’s future, a future that has already been determined for this town and was set in motion when Atlanta was picked to host the Summer Olympic games back in 1990, transit or no transit.
It’s not MARTA or mass transit that has been driving the ongoing diversification of this metro area. It’s the the fact that Metro Atlanta is home to the world’s busiest airport, played host to a mega international event in the Summer Olympics, is held in such high-esteem by lower-class, middle-class and upper-class blacks around the country as New York is for middle and upper-class whites and is the site where three of the busiest highways on the entire planet meet (I-75, I-85 & I-20).
Even with its obvious governing and logistical flaws, Atlanta is a highly-visible International city and other than finding a way to stop the increasingly rampant commercial overdevelopment that has been a feature of this region for the last 4-5 decades or so, we are powerless to stop the continued transition of this city and region into an ultra-diverse East Coast clone of Los Angeles, sans the beach, the mountains and the more-extensive freeway system.
Kris
June 30th, 2012
5:43 pm
[snatches the Ex-Lax from GOP]
YOU SHALL NOT PASS!
Head On : Vote NO!
Uncle Bubba
June 30th, 2012
5:50 pm
I’m voting no on TSPLOST for the simple reason that it’s a bad plan. The majority of the projects is more roads and the mass transit slices just don’t make sense or are ineffectual for most people. Taxes aren’t the issue for me as I’ve got no problem paying for something that makes sense. The issue is planning, something Atlanta has never had since freaking Reconstruction. It’s always a slapped together compromise with no vision in this town. There’s always a plan B and saying that TSPLOST is the only option is nonsense. It’s simply not true. Someone else mentioned Los Angeles in the comments above and I’ve been saying for 20 years that Atlanta seems hell bent on adopting that transportation nightmare as it’s model. Where are the leaders? Where are the visionaries? They’re certainly not the folks pandering to the drooling developers. And they sure as heck aren’t found in DeKalb where I live. Our commissioners are powerless and gutless. TSPLOST is bad for Atlanta. We all deserve better, in-town and outside the perimeter.
Chris Sanchez
June 30th, 2012
5:51 pm
The project list makes no difference. The TSPLOT will never be passed even with it being tucked in with the July primary vote. Too many people are going to go out of their way help voter turn out to defeat this proposal before it becomes the disaster the majority of people see coming.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 30th, 2012
6:42 pm
Uncle Bubba
June 30th, 2012
5:50 pm
You got it! Atlanta does seem hell bent on adopting the Los Angeles nightmare of a transportation model.
The only thing is that, unlike Atlanta whose surface road network is based on ancient Indian trails that resemble a plate of spaghetti at best, at least Los Angeles had some semblance of a surface road network and an extensive freeway system to handle automobile traffic until the crushing population growth eventually totally overwhelmed the one-dimensional transportation network and they were left with no choice but to invest heavily in rail transit.
Atlanta won’t be anywhere near as lucky as L.A. because, unlike L.A. (or Houston or Dallas or even Miami) which with their extensive surface road and freeway networks could get by without investing in transit for much longer, Atlanta will likely be forced to adopt a transit-heavy approach much sooner rather than because of the notable lack-of-adequate surface road and freeway options and a political environment that abhors new road construction almost as much as it severely abhors rail transit.
hiram
June 30th, 2012
9:06 pm
@will the last…
You must not be familiar with this:
“By the time of the 1973 oil crisis, controversial new testimony was presented to a United States Senate inquiry into the causes of the decline of streetcar systems in the U.S. This alleged that there was a wider conspiracy—by GM in particular—to destroy effective public transport systems in order to increase sales of automobiles and that this was implemented with great effect to the detriment of many cities.”
“General Motors streetcar conspiracy”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy
To all that say....
June 30th, 2012
9:22 pm
…the only reason Cobb and Gwinnett didn’t originally want MARTA was do to WHITE racists. WRONG. Around that time Blacks were starting to become the dominant politicians in the City of Atlanta because of white flight and they didn’t want their influence on the MARTA board diluted by the white folks of Cobb and Gwinnett. These so called “leaders,” NEVER wanted those counties to be a part of MARTA anyway. City of Atlanta black racists. LOL.
Kris
June 30th, 2012
9:31 pm
@ hiram
By the time of the 1973 oil crisis….
No offense, but like this t-spLOST that crises was a scam for the oil barons and their cronies to get rich.
Remember the national wide 55 mph….Yep that like this TAX the GOP calls t-spLOST (which theiy are so against a TAX….any way a diesel truck doing 55 mph burns as much fuel than at 65…IE it has to run a longer amount of time, thus more fuel burned.
Rub on imbecile Head On : Vote NO!
.
hiram
June 30th, 2012
9:33 pm
@To all that say
The fatal error made by the whites when they abandoned Atlanta, was their failure to extend the city limits.
20/20
June 30th, 2012
9:51 pm
As usual, Galloway resorts to bashing white people (vs. African), Republicans (vs. Democrats), North Metro (vs. South Metro), and, of course, anything to further bash “Tea Party” types – whoever they are. To further take a short quote from him, “No surprise there.” Does that pretty well sum it up for the AJC and its editorial stance?
Partial Payment
June 30th, 2012
10:00 pm
When the state Government (Sonny “go Fish” Perdue) reneged on the 400 toll collection, I forever broke with any state government and believe more than ever that neither party in state government can be trusted and that includes the present crop who is drooling over making some under-the-table kickback for promoting TSPLOST.
Out by the Pond
June 30th, 2012
10:04 pm
Proud Voter 2:38 – we understand that you may not be able to read or that such a lenghty bill this one my be a bit intimidating to your weak mind so Imwill give you some references. 48-8-240 (c) covers the slush oops I mean opporation. Funds for an additional 10 years. This section also forbids MARTA fromusing any of the Tsplost. Funds for non project operations or maintenance.
48-8245(b) covers the end of the tax. It’s all right there in black and white for any one with a third grade education to read. They have to keep it simple, they are GA Legislatures and most can not read much beyond the third grade level.
Cobb resident & voter
June 30th, 2012
11:31 pm
@ Auntie Christ “Meanwhile here in Decatur I feel I have a legitimate gripe that Cobb, Gwinnett and Clayton rejected MARTA years ago and denied us the opportunity to have a world class rapid transit system by now, and want me to help them with another 1% of my money to catch up. These are good repubs that don’t like government assistance, yet want me to subsidize their life style choices.”
The TIA referendum is very unpopular in Cobb county. I plan to vote NO. We don’t want you to subsidize us at all. We don’t want rapid transit placed one mile into Cobb at the cost of nearly $1B.
@ K. Rasheed “If the suburbanites and their corporate employers want better transportation systems move back into the city. I do not support paying for their greed and ignorance!”
As a Cobb suburbanite whose employer is also in Cobb, I agree that if we wanted transit and a city lifestyle we should move to the city. We have NO interest in living in Atlanta nor even going to Atlanta for any reason other than to pass through on the occasional vacation trip. I like the suburbs and plan to stay here and don’t want you to pay an additional 1% sales tax to provide any transit for us.
If I had one traffic project to choose, it would be an east/west corridor from Cobb to Gwinnett north of I-285.
Jerry
June 30th, 2012
11:59 pm
@Turnthelightsoff: The city I was referring to is Atlanta, not any other city. We don’t have the hoodrats and hoodlums from south of I-20 in my community, and we intend to keep it that way. There are already portions of Cobb and Gwinnett that have gone to hell due to illegals setting up wildcat, favela-style trailer parks all over portions of those counties. That is why I live in Forsyth. I don’t care what Sandy Springs or any other city along 400 wants to preserve. The fact of the matter is that the road needs to be widened to allow us in Forsyth to get to and from work faster. We don’t want MARTA, we just want more lanes. This transportation tax will fail. The only people who will vote for it are the hipsters from Edgewood and the thugs from DeKalb and portions of Atlanta south of I-20. Give me more lanes and keep the MARTA mess within the city and maybe I will consider voting for it.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
July 1st, 2012
1:04 am
Jerry
June 30th, 2012
11:59 pm
Forsyth County may not have hoodrats and hoodlums from south of I-20, but there are definitely hoodrats, hoodlums, illegals and Latin American gangs and drug cartels moving up the Georgia 400 North Corridor with a heavy concentration of your favorite types of people in the City of Sandy Springs and a growing contingent in North Fulton County, especially within the City of Roswell.
Heck, I see street signs with the tags “SUR-13″ and “MS-13″ on them in some of the older more mature neighborhoods full of starter homes and rentals in Roswell off GA 140 on the westside of GA 400, so the undesirable activity of which you speak is a lot closer to Forsyth County than you think and will continue to creep through North Fulton and closer to the still somewhat exurban, but rapidly suburbanizing Forsyth County as with this being Metro Atlanta, localities like those in North Fulton and even in Forsyth are not necessarily known to turn down permits for commercial and residential overdevelopment like the kind that has once-exurban Gwinnett and Cobb counties on the verge of complete urbanization, especially with communities like Roswell and Alpharetta intentionally and purposefully attempting to become more urban and dense in nature.
Alpharetta, in particular, wants to become one of the next great job centers of the region to compete with the likes of Downtown, Midtown, Buckhead, Cumberland and Perimeter Center, with a job cluster emerging along 400 between Mansell Road and Windward Parkway.
Forsyth may be still be a somewhat far-flung to experience the full effects of the type of urbanization that Cobb and Gwinnett counties are experiencing, but have no doubt that it is on its way to Forsyth County, as I’ve personally heard reports of developers eyeing the GA 400 interchanges at McFarland Pkwy, GA 141 and GA 20 for continued heavy commercial and dense multi-family development.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
July 1st, 2012
2:01 am
Jerry
June 30th, 2012
11:59 pm
{{{”I don’t care what Sandy Springs or any other city along 400 wants to preserve. The fact of the matter is that the road needs to be widened to allow us in Forsyth to get to and from work faster.”}}}
I know that you and many others in Forsyth don’t care what Sandy Springs or any other city along 400 wants to preserve along the right-of-way, but the fact-of-the-matter is that the type of large-scale widening of GA 400 that you seek is not necessarily ever going to come into fruition anytime soon, if ever, especially between south of I-285 through Buckhead to the I-85 merge where it is amazing that a new expressway was ever built through one of the most upscale residential neighborhoods in the entire nation.
Though, the good news for you is that GDOT has plans on the books to reconstruct the obsolete I-285 Top End/GA 400 Interchange and add a limited system of collector-distributor lanes to each side of GA 400 from I-285 to just north of the GA 400/Abernathy Road Interchange.
GDOT also has (long-term) plans to add at least an elevated reversible managed lane to the GA 400 North Corridor between I-285 and GA 20.
GDOT also has even longer-term plans to add a couple of travel lanes to each direction of GA 400 north of McFarland Parkway and extend the limited-access expressway portion of GA 400 north through the GA 53 junction in Dawsonville.
The bad news is that the plans to reconstruct the I-285 Top End/GA 400 Interchange appear in the list of projects to be funded through the T-SPLOST referendum which is increasingly more than likely to be voted down and severely-defeated at the polls by voters on July 31st.
There is also bad news that thelong-term plans to add at least an elevated reversible lane to GA 400 between I-285 and GA 20, widen GA 400 from 4 to 8 lanes north of McFarland Pkwy out to GA 53 and extend the expressway portion of GA 400 from where it currently ends at the GA 369 Junction in Coal Mountain up to the growing commercial area at the GA 53 Junction are totally unfunded as of now in large part due to the diminishing returns from the Georgia state gas tax and state laws that require transportation funding to be divided up equally amongst all of Georgia’s 12 Congressional Districts, despite the fact that Metro Atlanta is a major population center on the North American continent that has by far the highest population and overwhelmingly more transportation needs than any other district in the state.
Also, just as the politics of the Atlanta Region has been guided by automobile-dependent, automobile-loving, transit-adverse individuals in the suburbs like yourself (I can say that, because like you, I also love my vehicle and I also love good roads, but unlike you I also love trains and prefer a more-balance, though targeted multi-modal approach to this region’s transportation issues), the politics has also been very-heavily influenced transit-loving, transit-dependent anti-roadbuilding parties inside I-285 (as well as anti-roadbuilding and anti-transit types outside of I-285, affectionally known as B.A.N.A.N.A.s, which stands for Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Never Anytime).
Just as it is an agenda of many people to retard the growth and expansion of transit in the region, especially into their particular neck-of-the-woods, no matter how much it may actually be needed in this severely road infrastructure-challenged region, it is also the active agenda of many to completely retard the further expansion of the increasingly severely-challenged road network in the region, particularly by the pro-transit, anti-roadbuilding types inside of I-285, but also of those who live along heavily-residential roads that have become major two-lane thoroughfares because of the continued crushing population growth within the Atlanta Region.
It is the ongoing and intensifying conflict between the anti-transit types and the anti-roaders in which both sides have cancelled out each other and helped lead to total paralysis on the transportation planning front in which virtually no new major roads and no new transit lines have been built in Metro Atlanta since the 1990’s, which is bad because since the last stretch of expressway opened (the GA 400 Toll Road through Buckhead in 1993) the population of the Atlanta Region has grown by about roughly 2.7 million people and since the last stretch of rail transit line opened in 2000, the population of the Atlanta Region has grown by 1.7 million people.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
July 1st, 2012
2:20 am
Jerry
June 30th, 2012
11:59 pm
More good news for you is that Forsyth County plans to widen Bethelview Road from its current 2 lanes to a 4-lane partially-divided boulevard from just north of GA 400 at the GA Hwy 9 junction up to the GA Hwy 20 Intersection and also plans to widen Old Atlanta and Sharon Roads to 4 lanes from the Old Atlanta/McGinnis Ferry Rd intersection up to the GA 141/Sharon Road intersection.
Also, Forsyth County is not apart of the 10-county Atlanta Regional Commission area that will be voting on the Metro Atlanta T-SPLOST, so living in Forsyth County, you will not get to engage in this pending political disaster and vote on the Metro Atlanta list of projects.
Forsyth County will be voting on a list of projects for the Georgia Mountains region, which includes Banks, Dawson, Forsyth, Franklin, Habersham, Hall, Hart, Lumpkin, Rabun, Stephens, Towns, Union, and White counties.
Sorry, but Forsyth County is going to miss out on all of the fun of voting on the Metro Atlanta T-SPLOST that is an unmitigated political disaster in the making.
http://www.connectgeorgiamountains.org/
junbug
July 1st, 2012
4:38 am
TSPLOST is just another hand out to GDOT so they can hire more non-producers. Take a chop ax to the thousand of no-producers in the GDOT first.
Then tell the citizens the truth about TSPLOST which states 25% of the money will go into the counties general fund for larger govenmemt. NO, to more government!!!
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
July 1st, 2012
4:44 am
Cobb resident & voter
June 30th, 2012
11:31 pm
{{{”The TIA referendum is very unpopular in Cobb county. I plan to vote NO. We don’t want you to subsidize us at all. We don’t want rapid transit placed one mile into Cobb at the cost of nearly $1B.”}}}
It wasn’t the folks in the city that would have been subsidizing that line, it would have been Cobb County taxpayers that would have been subsidizing that extremely poorly-placed rail transit line as the Midtown-Cumberland light rail line was (is) slated to be funded with now what is $689 million dollars of Cobb County’s $1.2 billion proceeds of the regional T-SPLOST.
The amount of Cobb County proceeds that would have paid for the Midtown-Cumberland light rail line, of which as you mentioned, only one mile is in Cobb County, was originally tabbed to be $857 million until people in Cobb County raised hell and about $168 million or so was redirected to the proposed widening of Windy Hill Road to six lanes between Austell Rd and I-75 and proposed reconstruction of a separated-grade intersection at Windy Hill and Hwy 41/Cobb Parkway.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
July 1st, 2012
5:27 am
{{{”As a Cobb suburbanite whose employer is also in Cobb, I agree that if we wanted transit and a city lifestyle we should move to the city. We have NO interest in living in Atlanta nor even going to Atlanta for any reason other than to pass through on the occasional vacation trip. I like the suburbs and plan to stay here and don’t want you to pay an additional 1% sales tax to provide any transit for us.”}}}
While you don’t live in the City of Atlanta proper, by living in Cobb County you do still live an area that has grown into one of the five core urban counties (Fulton, DeKalb, Clayton, Cobb and Gwinnett) of the Greater Metro Atlanta region.
You may not live in the city, but you do live much closer than you think, both geographically and politically as Cobb County shares a boundary with Fulton County and the City of Atlanta in the Chattahoochee River and Cobb County is not quite nearly as completely suburban in the strictest sense as it was known to be in previous decades.
Like it, or not, you live in an increasingly urban community in Cobb County that is increasingly closely linked, geographically, politically and socially, to the City of Atlanta (see Mableton, Austell Rd, South Cobb Drive, South Cobb Pkwy, Spring Rd near Smyrna, Franklin Rd and Bentley Rd on the near-eastside of Marietta where a dead body is seemingly found every other week as examples of a Cobb County that has either urbanized or is rapidly-urbanizing).
I agree that an additional 1% sales tax is not the best way to this region’s transportation needs, especially at this point of such great and almost overwhelming need after decades of neglect by increasingly spectacularly incompetent state leaders.
But seeing as though that Cobb County has grown rapidly over the last five decades to become a heavily-populated community of nearly 700,000 residents (which is equivalent in population to the cities of Detroit, Baltimore, the District of Columbia, Boston, Charlotte and San Francisco) which is now an indispensible part of Metro Atlanta along with Fulton, DeKalb, Clayton and Gwinnett counties, there is no longer any choice but for transit (preferably properly-placed and properly-funded) to be a key part of the transportation conversation as Interstates 75, 285, 575 & 20 and US Hwy 41 are often severely-congested beyond capacity during peak traffic hours of the day, a situation that figures to get much worse if one of the busiest and fastest-growing seaports on the planet, the Port of Savannah, is expanded and generates even more crushingly heavy freight and cargo truck traffic as is expected.
Compounding matters is the fact that there is very little available right-of-way remaining along the Interstates to widen and expand them horizontally as has been done traditionally so the options for adding additional freeway capacity are limited both physically and politically as Metro Atlanta has seemingly reached a point where further substantial road-widening and road expansion seems to be no longer acceptable to the overall public, making increased transit (in an effective form) an option that is no longer negotiable.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
July 1st, 2012
6:10 am
{{{”If I had one traffic project to choose, it would be an east/west corridor from Cobb to Gwinnett north of I-285.”}}}
The state tried that concept over a decade ago and about 10 miles farther out as the wildly-unpopular Northern Arc and failed miserably to the point where an entire long-ruling political party (the Democrats) in part lost power over it and the now-ruling Republicans consider the consider the concept politically-radioactive.
If the East-West Corridor/Northern Arc concept did not work 10 miles farther to the north through land in exurban Bartow, Cherokee and Forsyth counties that at the time was still very sparcely-developed, there is very likely absolutely no chance that the concept of a Northern Arc would gain any traction through much more densely-developed, much more densely-populated and much more politically-powerful Cobb, North Fulton and Gwinnett counties, an area that is known to decide statewide elections.
Running a new expressway through those heavily-populated and extremely politically-powerful suburbs is a proposal that would be D.O.A. (Dead On Arrival) the second that the local news media got a hold of it and put it on the airwaves.
Your only remote hope for anything resembling an “East-West Corridor” between Cobb and Gwinnett counties would be a (long-overdue) widening of the existing surface thoroughfare GA Hwy 92 to six through lanes from the Old Hwy 5 (Canton Rd/Main St) intersection in Woodstock east over to the shopping area just before the Sandy Plains Road intersection where the road becomes six through lanes over to GA 400 as well as a widening of GA 140/Holcomb Bridge Road/Jimmy Carter Blvd to six through lanes from the Old Alabama Road intersection on the eastside of GA 400 in Roswell over to the Hwy 13/Buford Hwy intersection in Norcross where the road becomes six through lanes that are frequently completely gridlocked during rush hours.
Even as practical a concept as it may seem, the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc truck bypass concept is DEAD and it likely ain’t coming back anytime soon, if ever, mainly out of understandably justified fears that it would become sprawl and overdevelopment-inducing circular freeway that would be quickly-overrun by land spectulators and real estate developers who would endlessly and tirelessly push the type of commercial and high-density residential development that has once-exurban and suburban Cobb and Gwinnett counties increasingly looking like something out of Los Angeles.
See what I mean about severely-limited road infrastructure, both physically and POLITICALLY?
Eric
July 1st, 2012
7:59 am
The reasons mentioned above are valid. No less at issue is the matter of increasing taxes during a recession. Like Obamacare, now is not the time. Maybe later, but not now.
Eric
July 1st, 2012
7:59 am
I think people are also weary of pro-growth models which got us into this mess to begin with.
Political Discourse In These Cynical Times — Peach Pundit
July 1st, 2012
8:00 am
[...] Erick says he won’t vote for the TIA because he doesn’t trust GDOT. Jim Galloway writes that lack of trust is harming efforts to pass the TIA among voters in Fulton and Dekalb counties. No matter your [...]
catlady
July 1st, 2012
9:28 am
I’m pretty liberal (according to folks in my area of the state) but I will be voting against Tsplost. I note that it will not provide help to my county, that it will be “steak and shake” for developers and road-builders, and that it will allow the voters to continue to be lied to. It is the last part that is so troublesome to me. From county government wasting splost money to the state renegging on GA 400, those governing have shown themselves to be, at best, inept; at worst, they are lying thieves! From here on out I will vote NO to every splost and Constitutional amendment put in front of me. Why? Absolutely NO TRUST!
A Conservative Voice
July 1st, 2012
9:34 am
@Proud Voter
June 30th, 2012
1:57 pm
Uh, “A Conservative Voice,” where did you get this very wrong information? Where is the data to prove this one-third mess?
No data, Proud Voter……..and you know what?…..it hasn’t been done yet, so I can’t prove it; however, and I know after last Thursday I’m on thin ice, but I think I am still entitled to my opinion. But I will guarantee you this, if this tax is voted in, after five years the politicians will have already begun to talk about extending the tax another ten years because the progress of the projects has fallen behind and all are tremendously over budget. Guarantee you something else…..if and when the streetcar project is finished (it’s a big “IF”, proud voter) within two years of completion, it will be bankrupt, i. e., not enough money coming in to fund operating costs. That and the beltline project are two projects that will do absolutely nothing to improve Atlanta’s traffic…..
Everyone, remember to vote on July 31st and vote NONONONONONONONONONONO………this tax will do nothing to solve atlanta’s traffic problems……politicians just want your money…….remember, we are in an economic RECESSION……all increased taxes do is make the RECESSION worse.
Political Discourse In These Cynical Times
July 1st, 2012
10:40 am
[...] Field. Erick says he won’t vote for the TIA because he doesn’t trust GDOT. Jim Galloway writes that lack of trust is harming efforts to pass the TIA among voters in Fulton and Dekalb counties. No matter your [...]
Double Zero Eight
July 1st, 2012
10:48 am
Something needs to be done, but this plan is
inherently flawed. The sponsors need to go
back to the drawing board and take their time.
This plan was hastily put together, The 10 county
configuration is inadequate. There are two counties
that border Fulton which are not included. There are
counties that do not border Fulton that are included.
As many others have inferred, the emphasis
placed on asphalt is an exercise in futility.
Anyone remember the “Freeing The Freeways”
campaign of the 90″s.?
Proud Voter
July 1st, 2012
11:06 am
If ya’ll don’t like your legislators, then vote them out of office; but remember, you voted them into office.
There is NO slush fund in the t-splost anywhere in the written or interpreted. Conservative voice, You have no data but you “guarantee” . . . really? Are you a psychic?
Out-by-the-pond, I scoff at your calling me ignorant when you offer such incomprehensible wording in your attempt at exaplaining what does not exist in the t-splost. As we say in my area of Georgia, “Bless their heart” when the pitiful draw attention to their inadequacies.
If you in metro-Atlanta like the congested traffic, high gas prices, air-pollution, long-commutes, broken roads and bridges, then by all means, continue to live in your regressive communities and let the rest of Georgia by-pass you through progress, and in a few years you won’t have to worry about any of this because the businesses, industries, and population will have relocated to a much better locale that is visionary, progressive, and positive.
I am not from metro-Atlanta. I am from rural Georgia and am proud of it.
A Conservative Voice
July 1st, 2012
12:15 pm
@Proud Voter
July 1st, 2012
11:06 am
There is NO slush fund in the t-splost anywhere in the written or interpreted. Conservative voice, You have no data but you “guarantee” . . . really? Are you a psychic?
To Proud Voter – No, I’m not psychic; however, I have seven decades of experience living with Georgia Politics and the GADOT…….all anybody employed with the GADOT is interested in is keeping their cushy jobs…..half of you need to be gone and the other half needs to get their a**e* in gear and start earning their paycheck……you know, you can spit it out…….can you take the truth?
Proud Voter
July 1st, 2012
12:24 pm
Yes, Conservative Voter, I certainly can take the truth when I hear it. “I do not agree with a word you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it” is an old phrase that aptly applies here.
However, I recognize smoke-n-mirrors explanations of nonexistent data when I read it. You are entitled to your opinion as I am, but I cannot in good faith let others read and perhaps believe wrong information when I see it. T-splost is too important to the regions in all of Georgia for your mis-information to be left unaddressed.
I agree, GADOT needs to clean up its act as do most large business concerns. “Time waits on no man” is another old phrase that applies here. We must allow this t-splost to happen to give us a chance to provide for those who follow just as those who came before us provided for us. Will it be perfect? No, and anyone who thinks it could ever be needs more meds at the home.
T-splost is not the devil tax. It is a fair tax that will bring jobs to my impoverished area, revenue that will be spent several times over in my impoverished area, and better roads and bridges for my impoverished area that we so want and need but cannot afford to wait for GADOE to get around to doing something about.
Your anger lies in your way to understanding. I ask you to put personal biases aside and look at t-splost and what positive effects it could have in your region. What could be so bad about that?