The chill on conversation at the state Capitol
Possibly, you’ve already seen this piece by me and my AJC colleague Andria Simmons:
Metro Atlanta physicians who participated in the General Assembly’s debate on new abortion restrictions say they warned lawmakers that they were being targeted for reprisals. And they are skittish about returning to the state Capitol next year when the topic is all but certain to come up again.
Lawmakers, too, say they’re worried.
Two burglaries and two fires at Atlanta-area women’s clinics and a burglary at the the main office of the Georgia Obstetrical and Gynecological Society are being investigated by the FBI as possible acts of domestic terrorism or civil rights violations.
Four of the five offices targeted are run by doctors who had voiced concerns — sometimes publicly, sometimes privately — about the so-called fetal pain bill, which shortened to 20 weeks the time frame during which women can have an elective abortion.
“These are despicable acts and if there is some relationship between these acts and the legislation, then it’s even more outrageous,” said House Speaker David Ralston. “I’m concerned that Georgians might have some fear of coming to the Capitol and voicing their opinions on legislation. Obviously, that troubles me.”
Four physicians interviewed by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, some of whom declined to be named, said they suspected — but could not prove — that whoever targeted their clinics was exceptionally well-informed about their activities in the Capitol during the 40 days of the session. Even those activities that occurred out of the public eye.
“The circle of people is not that large,” said John Walraven, a lobbyist for the Infertility and Perinatology Consortium of Georgia. “That’s what’s creepy about it.”
House Speaker David Ralston said he’d consider asking committee chairmen and their staffs to hold lists of hearing witnesses more closely. But at the end of our interview, I noted that the experience of these obstetricians paralleled that of state Rep. Ann Purcell, R-Rincon. Ralston agreed.
Purcell chaired the House Public Safety and Homeland Security Committee, which this year refused to pass out a bill that would have allowed concealed weapons to be carried without permits. Purcell became the immediate target of telephoned death threats.
The incident was referred to the Georgia State Patrol, which is in charge of Capitol security, the speaker said.
Purcell is not running for re-election this year.
- By Jim Galloway, Political Insider
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118 comments Add your comment
catlady
June 19th, 2012
11:00 am
I wonder how concerned David would be if citizens from all over the state stormed the Capitol to demand ethics reform for elected leaders?
Road Scholar
June 19th, 2012
11:01 am
If you don’t agree with abortion or do not want one…do not have one. Otherwise, let the law stand as it was a few years ago. Stop judging people by your religious and other beliefs.
Jim S.
June 19th, 2012
11:06 am
It is truly unfortunate if a few extremists are successful in suppressing important debates about laws governing our society. I am hopeful that those responsible for these acts will be brought to justice and that we will all be mindful that the rhetoric we use to support our positions can be misconstrued by disturbed people as endorsing these types of acts. I commend the Speaker for his clear message on this issue. We can be passionate in our disagreements while making it clear that we do not condone violence and terrorism in the name of our cause(s).
Bob Loblaw
June 19th, 2012
11:10 am
Good grief @catlady. Doctors offices are burned and threats are made and all you can talk about is lobbyists gifts in response? This is serious. Put your lame politics aside for 5 minutes. You’ll surely get your “ethics” story, blog or whatever else in short order.
If You Can't Intimidate Women What's the Point in Being in the Georgia General Assembly
June 19th, 2012
11:14 am
Here’s an idea. Let’s write a bill and title it “Fetal Pain” and then act surprised when it brings out all the crazies.
How about we have a hearing titled the “At what point did Rep. Doug McKillip begin conspiring with terrorists to commit arson” hearing. Is that inflammatory enough?
Double Zero Eight
June 19th, 2012
11:17 am
What frightens an incumbent politician the most”?
1) Knowledgeable voters with good memories
2) Not being re-elected
Extremists come in third.
JD
June 19th, 2012
11:19 am
If you look at those involved in attacks on clinics and doctors over the years, they are truly part of the “lunatic fringe”. Each and every one of them are influenced by the hate rhetoric to carry out these acts of violence and justify their actions through religious arguments. Fortunately for them the rational beliefs of the supporters of the woman’s right to choose does not rise to the same level of violence.
obi one
June 19th, 2012
11:33 am
the lunatic fringe has become the mainstream in today’s gop. the gop platform unleashes the McVeighs and Rudolphs of this mad World. sad it is.
GaBlue
June 19th, 2012
11:47 am
Those lunatic fringe folks are getting more arrogant in their delusions that they have the right to rule over the rest of us. I saw them at the Capitol during this debate. They get a sick sense of gratification exerting their own sense of power through bullying. They are perverts.
These people didn’t go to medical school, but feel fully justified writing bills that dictate how doctors treat their patients, and inserting themselves into what should be a private situation. They literally smirked and giggled at their success harassing and threatening lawmakers who passed it just to get these spitting monkeys off their backs.
Now they’re perpetuating their own states of arousal by escalating their bullying to a whole new level, confident that the “righteousness” of their cause will shield them from repercussions. Keep thinking that, Becker and friends. I know what you are, and so does the FBI.
Things that shine
June 19th, 2012
12:03 pm
Some yahoo state legislator chums the water with inflammatory rhetoric around a divisive issue and is surprised when there’s a shark attack? If McKillip is truly contrite about the rise of violence stemming from his grandstanding, he should introduce funding for more security cameras, alarms at the women’s health clinics.
Shar
June 19th, 2012
12:03 pm
If this was just the ‘lunatic fringe’ there wouldn’t be hundreds of phone calls. These people are organized and tied in, and if they had access to confidential conversations between lawmakers and off-the-record physicians, it wasn’t the physicians who tattled.
Lawmakers who believe they are crusaders against evil appear to be being persuaded that the end justifies the means – and the means includes the personal benefits of pandering to an extreme faction. We were treated this session to the spectacle of Dan Becker screaming and threatening lawmakers who disagreed with his appalling stance, secure in the belief that his need to force his views on everyone else is excusable because of his Righteousness.
Can anyone be surprised that this level of political facism results in attacks against those who dare to disagree?
First stop for Federal investigators should be McKillip’s office.
clyde
June 19th, 2012
12:12 pm
11 comments and no crazies yet.Interesting.
Georgia, The " New Mississippi "
June 19th, 2012
12:29 pm
Johnny Reb values rule the state capitol. Thank God Americans have the FBI and the Dept of Justice to help protect them.
catlady
June 19th, 2012
12:36 pm
Good grief, Bob! I am also concerned about the burnings and threats, as I support access to abortions. However, having the Speaker pontiicate about people expressing their concerns seems to me a bit lame, as he really doesn’t want to hear opinions of the people, as he proves with his disdain for ethics reform. Be able to think about how the two are linked FCOL!
Truth Hurts
June 19th, 2012
12:38 pm
good to see the poster ‘Georgia, The ” New Mississippi “‘ is the same ole dumb a$$.
Refugee
June 19th, 2012
12:56 pm
More evidence that prudent sentient people should be “heading for the exits” if they live in the Hate States.
Less than 1% of the populace, they will want to be far away when the chimps really start hooting and howling, and targeting those who do not join in.
Question Man
June 19th, 2012
1:05 pm
Where is the sense of outrage that was heard from some quarters when a few conservative bloggers were targeted with fake 911 calls?
Proofreader
June 19th, 2012
1:13 pm
“…you’ve already this piece…”?
jgalloway
June 19th, 2012
1:16 pm
Whoops. Thanks for the catch.
New State Motto
June 19th, 2012
1:18 pm
Geogia’s new motto “I’m With Stupid”
Patches
June 19th, 2012
1:20 pm
Hey Jim:
How is the Infertility and Perinatology Consortium of Georgia involved with this, and did you specifically solicit a quote from John Walraven in his capacity as their representative?
Dawg'88
June 19th, 2012
1:21 pm
How about reporting the “crazies” on the other side?
Pregnancy Center Vandalized After Showing Legislators Ultrasound
by Steven Ertelt | LifeNews.com | 4/6/12 1:08 PM
A Boise, Idaho-based pregnancy center that provides women with tangible pregnancy support and abortion alternatives was vandalized after it secured national media attention for showing state legislators live ultrasounds during a committee hearing.
A rock was thrown through the window of the Stanton Healthcare clinic and Boise police have been called out and are investigating the incident.
Stanton Healthcare is a life-affirming medical clinic reaching out to women and their children in crisis and unexpected pregnancies, and is located right next to Planned Parenthood, the nation’s biggest abortion business. Stanton recently drew nationwide headlines when they organized and performed live ultrasounds in the Idaho State Capitol Building during the debate on ultrasound legislation.
During the hearing, abortion backers had to be escorted out of the ultrasound presentation for shouting and disrupting the meeting. The Founder and President of Stanton Healthcare, Brandi Swindell, has been getting Internet and email threats of violence and hateful attacks and, now, the clinic has been targeted.
Swindell is currently in Mexico working with and ministering to orphan children, so Stacey Harder, a Stanton Healthcare client advocate, responded to the vandalism.
“It is deeply troubling that someone would resort to violence against a women’s clinic that provides free care and services to women in crisis and unexpected pregnancies,” she said. “Since we performed the live ultrasounds in the Idaho Capitol Building two weeks ago, Stanton and our staff have received Internet and email threats and hateful attacks.”
“Violence has no place in America and we would hope that everyone, even those who are pro-choice, would condemn this act of violence against a women’s clinic,” Harder added. “Stanton Healthcare also wants to make it very clear to those who may be trying to intimidate us or bully us, that we will never back down or stop reaching out to needy women and their children in the Treasure Valley.”
Last year, pro-abortion vandals in Canada hit a crisis pregnancy center on three successive occasions, leading the New Brunswick Right to Life Association , which runs the center for pregnant women, to contact police.
Starting on June 29 and continuing for two additional nights, a pro-abortion vandal hit the Mother and Child House on Brunswick Street, and NBRTL director Peter Ryan described what happened for the Daily Gleaner newspaper.
CLICK LIKE IF YOU’RE PRO-LIFE!
“It happened on three successive nights, three different incidents,” he said. “One night they painted the word ‘Choice’ on one side of our building in large black letters and came back two other nights and ripped off our wooden flower boxes attached to the front of our building which dress it up nicely.
“They didn’t just rip out the flowers, but they went to the trouble of yanking the whole fixture off the wall, which suggests there was some animosity toward us, he added. “We suspect it’s somebody who just doesn’t like us.”
In March, 2001 pro-abortion vandals burglarized and virtually destroyed a pregnancy center in the South Bronx, just days after Mayor Michael Bloomberg signeda city council bill into law that targets such centers with heavy restrictions.
Chris Slattery, founder and president of Expectant Mother Care-EMC FrontLine Pregnancy Centers emailed LifeNews.com about the incident.
“Our main office in the South Bronx was burglarized again. This is the second time this has happened in the past 12 months,” he said. “They broke into our facility through the second story window, stole over $5,000 worth of equipment, and virtually destroyed the office.”
In July 2009, a crisis pregnancy center in Eugene, Oregon was hit by vandals — who left pro-abortion messages on its building. The incident comes weeks after an abortion advocate attacked the national headquarters of the pro-life group Operation Rescue.
And in December 2009, a pregnancy center in Arizona was burned in an attempted arson.
Bob Loblaw
June 19th, 2012
1:21 pm
I think the Speaker has heard from you, Catlady, and everyone else. He likely understands that you want a limit on lobbyist expenditures. He disagrees.
A little different than getting death threats or being a victim of burglary/identity theft and/or arson.
Again, take your Ethics rant somewhere it belongs.
Auntie Christ
June 19th, 2012
1:31 pm
This is the same scum who for a 100 years covered their faces with bed sheets and trampled on everything moral and decent in this state, aided and abetted as now, by politicians and clergy who silently encourage them, while being careful to keep arm’s length from them. Nothing has changed. Not a single ‘leader’ in the republican party has spoken a word of censure about the Doctor’s offices being vandalized, just like the national republican’s deafening silence toward bill orally, rush lowlife, and their wannabe’s who spew hatred 24/7 over the airwaves. The republicans leadership expect us to believe that they are so very concerned when the mad dogs begin rampaging, and think we are too stupid to realize they are the ones who eagerly bred the mongrels.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
1:33 pm
@Dawg – Lifenews huh? I guess its just the “librul media” that isn’t reporting all these “attacks” on pro life fake clinic sites? Cause really, they need to throw a rock through the window of one of these places? I’m sure there is a special FBI task force tracking attacks on Fake clinic sites….
“Both sides are bad, mmmmmmmmkay!” Moderates are a sad and gullible lot.
Aquagirl
June 19th, 2012
1:34 pm
Dawg ‘88, if you have to go trolling around your wingnut sites to play a “I iz a bigger victim!!!” card, at least give the link instead of spamming your attention hog cut ‘n paste.
I realize you think it’s ALL ABOUT YOU, but just pretend it’s not for one minute.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
1:37 pm
What encourages the extremists is that Moderates have proven that they don’t have a core ideology…they just want to be warm and snug ‘in the center’. Republicans have moved farther to the right than they have in 40 years, and proudly proclaim such, yet Mitt Romney is at 50/50 with Obama in the national polls.
When you look at this you can either go with contards and say that this is a ‘center right’ nation OR
That moderates don’t really MEAN what they say about hating ‘extremism’ and that no matter how extreme your ideology, moderates will say ‘both sides are bad mmmmmmkay’ just because they like to be special special snow flakes…
Which means if you’re a dem or a progressive take note….your restraint is not noticed by Moderates, and is not rewarded electorally. If anything it hurts you with some groups.
Conversely, you can still target Republican bases; the churches, rural areas, red states, and businesses that contribute exclusively to the Republican party or that are owned by billionaires contributing to super pacs and that moderates WILL NOT punish you for it.
Dawg'88
June 19th, 2012
1:39 pm
Funny how those stories are unreported. Funny how those who do this aren’t branded lunatics.
Someone above said stay out of our business. Don’t want an abortion…don’t have one. Keep your relgious beliefs to yourself.
No….thats not what a Christian does. You speak when the Truth is being subverted. Secularism is a religion of those who refuse to believe in the Truth. Why do those who are faithful have to accept your immoral ideas and practices.
Don’t force me to accept your beliefs is what you say…but I must accept yours? Amazing logic.
What is abortion?
The dismemberment of a human child…the baby is torn apart. The arms and legs are cut off. The rest of the body is mutilated. They are thrown in trash cans. When the instrument is inserted…the baby moves away from it…fighting for its life. Then it is dismembered.
Its an ugly truth that you on here dare to ignore and shy away from. You look but do not see. Those who do violence on either side are wrong and should be condemned. But I never hear that radical Pro Death believers are guilty of the same tactic that is being condemned.
Convenient ignorance.
Someone also said…its the law. Yeah…good argument.
Segregation was the law too. Should that have been Martin Luther King’s attitude. Just let the law be. Its often said that its “my body”….no its somebody elses too. Why should a baby die and have no rights.
Real/Christian Pro Life advocates want life respected. The comments on here show careless disregard for the human person. I will pray that you convert your immoral thoughts and beliefs. But remember one thing…God is watching.
When judgement comes…what will be your answer when asked what did you do to protect the “Holy Innocents”…God’s children. You can’t plead ignorance or that it was not your duty to do something about it.
Some say don’t judge….that has been taken out of context and purposely misrepresented forever. Judgement in the form of condemning someone to Hell or eternal punishment is not our decision…true enough.
But you as a Christian believer must judge actions and ideas as wrong and against the Natural Law. Anyting that subverts the Natural Law is not authentic law. Hitler’s generals always said that they just did what they were told and followed the law.
After the Nuremburg trials….they hung them for the crimes against humanity. Abortion is the modern day Holocaust and is a crime against humanity. Those who look the other way or ignore it or support it are sliding down a slippery slope. God help those who don’t fight for the most vulnerable…the unborn.
God is Pro Life….
Former Moderate
June 19th, 2012
1:48 pm
Ok, I’m calling this one at 1:21 PM EST. The crazies took over this thread and it’s officially dead.
Dawg'88
June 19th, 2012
1:52 pm
Aquagirl…not surprised by your personal attack. That is what your side does. Verbal insults because you have a serious lack of faith and understanding. I don’t troll around to “wingnut” sites. Plus, to link it means you can ignore it….So it did its job as proof by your less than honorable post.
Lifenews is not a “wingnut” site. It is only a site to show the true side of the abortion industry.
I don’t troll. Thos site that are extreme I avoid…but this one helps do God’s work. Former abortion rights advocates even write for it now to expose the genocide that they once supported. They have come to know that killing an innocent child is not a right.
You couldn;t ignore it or dispute any of it…so thanks for the insult in a way…it proves I got your attention. Personal attacks don’t answer a single part of what I said…I forgive you though. Jesus said that we would be condemned in His name…
Wasn’t saying that “there is a bigger victim” on the pro life side. Any violent attack is immoral and wrong. Please get the facts straight.And one more thing:
Its not about me…nowhere did I show any need for attention for myself. I want babies to stop being dismembered and thrown in incinerators. I want God’s children to stop being attacked in the womb and fighting for their lives. I want to do God’s will.
You see its not about me…its about those millions of others who had their lives snuffed out because too many have remained sliently deafening. Your post is disturbing and sad. But I pray for those who choose to ignore the Truth and insult those who embrace it.
Its not about you or me….its about God’s children.
When you realize it…you’ll be better off for it!
Auntie Christ
June 19th, 2012
1:54 pm
I’ll bet ole dawg 1888 just loves shock and awe when it’s brought down on living, breathing Arab children. If he doesn’t, he is definitely the exception among the ‘pro life’ crowd. Their oh so deep concern ends when the child is actually born, and inconveniently needs food, shelter and nurturing. And if the child has the misfortune to be born poor, or brown, or to Muslim parents, their concern declines proportionately.
Aquagirl
June 19th, 2012
1:55 pm
Funny how those stories are unreported. Funny how those who do this aren’t branded lunatics.Someone above blah blah blah blah blahcakes
You know, if wingnuts spent 1/100th of the effort on ex-fetuses that they do on long internet screeds and creepy legislation, I might think they were seriously concerned about babies.
Dawg'88
June 19th, 2012
1:57 pm
Aaron Burr V Mexico…there aren’t “fake pro life clinic”.
Amazing how folks like you make up lies.
Obviously you have never read lifenews. They will
condemn and report things done wrongly in the name of the Pro life
cause.
so find some facts before making up lies.
Satan is “…the father of lies…a murderer from the beginning.”
Please reject his teachings and embrace life.
muddy waters
June 19th, 2012
1:58 pm
Man, most of these comments make so much sense. Is it a Hater holiday today, or something?
mod
June 19th, 2012
1:58 pm
conservative christians and islamic fundamentalists are two peas in the same warped pod.
muddy waters
June 19th, 2012
1:59 pm
Oops, I spoke to soon. Now back to your normal, knuckle dragging commenter programming.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
2:01 pm
Did I just hear a conservative mention the Nuremberg trials?
Sorry, war crimes don’t mean anything anymore.
We prosecuted water boarding as torture in WWII.
We prosecuted torture as a war crime in WWII.
We prosecuted leaders who encouraged or promoted torture as war criminals in WWII.
We have signed an international treaty that makes torture a war crime irregardless of the geneva convention.
We have tortured regular combatants, not just ‘irregular combatants.’
George W Bush admitted publicly on prime time television he authorized torture.
Republicans and Moderates throw apoplectic fits when you accuse Bush of being a war criminal.
Party democrats froth at the mouth and howl in protest when you object to Obama not prosecuting Bush.
Bush is a war criminal.
Obama is an enabler.
Please stop talking about Nuremberg you #$%#$%# hypocrite.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
2:01 pm
@Dawg – When you pretend to be an abortion clinic and you don’t perform abortions you’re fake.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
2:03 pm
@Former Moderate – Why not be crazy? Moderates don’t reward restraint.
Both sides are bad no matter what they do in independent eyes.
Dawg'88
June 19th, 2012
2:04 pm
“Fake Clinics”…Mythical Propaganda
link: http://studentsforlife.org/prolifefacts/cpcs/
Crisis Pregnancy Centers (CPCs) have come under attack by various pro-abortion organizations. CPCs or PRCs (Pregnancy Resource Centers) are not-for-profit organizations that serve women across the United States. Below are some common myths that have been spread about these centers and the real facts.
What is a Crisis Pregnancy Center?
A crisis pregnancy center is a non-profit community center or clinic which:
•Primarily serves pregnant women and mothers of infants.
•Is not an abortion provider.
•Does not charge for any of its services.
There are approximately 2200 crisis pregnancy centers in the United States.
Myth 1: CPCs are “fake clinics.”
Pregnancy centers come in two types. The first is a traditional crisis pregnancy center or pregnancy resource center. They are not clinics and do not pretend to be, although in most states they are able to offer pregnancy tests and prenatal vitamins. They provide numerous social services, including parenting classes, options counseling, baby supplies, and other financial aid.
The second type is a Pregnancy Help Medical Clinic. Theses are licensed clinics working under the direction of an M.D. Medical services provided vary from clinic to clinic, but often include ultrasounds, on-site prenatal exams, and/or STD testing. In neither case can these be considered “fake clinics.”
Myth 2: CPCs only care about preventing abortions.
CPCs want to help women, no matter what their circumstance; not only the abortion-minded, but also women who have chosen adoption or parenting, women whose babies have already been born, and women struggling with a prior abortion..
Myth 3: CPCs use volunteers who are unqualified.
CPCs do utilize volunteers (and so does Planned Parenthood, the nation’s largest abortion provider!) All CPC volunteers undergo training to ensure that they are qualified to assist women and the unborn.
Myth 4: All CPCs have religious affiliations.
Some do and some do not; many respectable non-profits have religious affiliations. People who make this claim are usually implying something further: religious discrimination. This is patently false. No CPC will refuse a client on the basis of her religion.
Myth 5: CPCs pressure women into agreeing to adoption.
CPCs work to empower women to make the best choice for themselves and their babies, whether this means raising a child or placing him or her up for adoption. No CPC will ever try to forcefully coerce a woman into agreeing to an adoption.
Dawg'88
June 19th, 2012
2:04 pm
God Bless!
mod
June 19th, 2012
2:05 pm
God approves of late-term abortion. After all, he sacrificed his only son.
Aquagirl
June 19th, 2012
2:06 pm
When you pretend to be an abortion clinic and you don’t perform abortions you’re fake.
That whole thing about not bearing false witness is for heathens and babbykillers. It doesn’t apply to Real True Christians(tm).
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
2:06 pm
@Dawg – Can provide a link to counter any link you provide.
http://www.fwhc.org/abortion/fake.htm
@Stupid Neutral Observers – The media would love to report an explosion. If a radical ‘pro choice’ group bombed a fake abortion clinic, you’d hear about it. You haven’t.
Use what little logic skills you have. Also remember that conservatives lie.
Oh I know…’both sides lie…uhuhuhuhuh …der…..”
Moderates are so dumb.
jgalloway
June 19th, 2012
2:26 pm
Patches:
It’s not spelled out in the story, but Walraven was the lobbyist who arranged physician meetings and testimony for the ob-gyn side during debate.
catlady
June 19th, 2012
2:40 pm
Bob: Okay, you may be right. Perhaps the link I see is too subtle to discern.
I hope those who have committed these crimes will be caught and prosecuted.
East Lake Ira
June 19th, 2012
2:46 pm
Dawg
You are voting for Obama aren’t you? Your vaunted CPCs are suckling at the public teat thanks to him…
Bob Loblaw
June 19th, 2012
2:47 pm
We agree on that. See you on Jay’s page for further stimulating debate on lobbyists!
Attack Dog
June 19th, 2012
2:50 pm
Women must pay attention to how Dixiecrats are allowing history to retrogress, they put on a surprise face.
Real American
June 19th, 2012
2:51 pm
Poor Dawg 88…….to be that gullible must be painful.
Come on Man
June 19th, 2012
2:56 pm
You can rationalize this all you want but at the end of the day, abortion is murder. I pray for those that allow this to continue that God will justly punish them when they die and they stand before him. We kill a million people legally every year in this country; how sad.
vegan
June 19th, 2012
3:06 pm
meat is murder
horse
June 19th, 2012
3:07 pm
I can’t tell. Is Dawg’88 really Lila Rose, Randall Terry or Dan Becker?
nomaj
June 19th, 2012
3:19 pm
GA’s Republican “leadership” at its meddling worst.Trying to force high IQs to be put in the cross-hairs of the low IQs.
Tag
June 19th, 2012
3:20 pm
The idea of “If you don’t believe in my religion I’ll bomb you” is crazy. Sounds like the Muslim terrorists to me.
What’s this Country come to?
The LAW is the LAW.
Lupe
June 19th, 2012
3:26 pm
Abortion is legal, What part of legal don’t they understand.
East Lake Ira
June 19th, 2012
3:35 pm
Why do Xtians believe in post-natal abortions and not pre-natal ones?
monty
June 19th, 2012
3:59 pm
If your going to terminate your pregnancy cause you just don’t want the poor thing, at least have the guts to call it what it is , a baby. Enough of this fetus, mumbo jumbo, sounds clean and sanitized. Anyone who wants their child calls it their baby. Anyone who wants a child and sees an early sonogram, no matter how small and as yet not fully formed says, “let me show you a picture of my baby, not my fetus.” LOL! I can’t even shoot a cat who comes in my yard to poop on my flowers with my BB gun without it being animal cruelty. But we can’t even protect the tiniest humans from cruelty. Amazing! How we have evolved! LOL!
The enemy within
June 19th, 2012
4:03 pm
Thomas Jefferson said in the Declaration of Independence that governments are instituted among men to protect their rights. Not in the US.
The government has become the greatest enemy of the people there is. Going back as far as the Alien and Sedition Acts during the War of 1812, the government has been coming after folks who speak out against its policies with a vengence and a gun. Lincoln threw dozens of northern newspaper editors in prison (Yes, despite “freedom of the press”) who opposed his unconstitutional draft, fiat money, income tax, and murderous war against the sovereign southern states. Virtually every president has engaged in such oppression and attacks against detractors with Nixon’s enemies list being a more public example or the way Clinton used the IRS to go after republicans who challenged his imperial ambitions.
It should come as no surprise to anyone that our state governments should be as underhanded and CRIMINAL.
While thousands die and trillions are wasted fighting enemies who only hate us because we are over there, we ignore the real enemies of liberty and freedom right here at home under our state house domes and in our nation’s capital.
I'm ok with it ;)
June 19th, 2012
4:09 pm
Fine. It’s a baby. So what?
Show me the sonogram. Show me the statistics. Show me all the photos you can come up with.
Tell me about the girl who was accidentally not aborted and lived to hate her mother (like a good Christian). You know what? I don’t care. It’s my body, not yours. So mind your own business.
I know it makes you want to climb the walls with anxiety when you think about howt you can’t tell me what I can and can’t do andI know you want to tell my doctor what to do. But we’re not listening to you. So go take your medicine and find a cause that actually helps living breathing viable people and stay out of the way of normal people.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
4:15 pm
@The Enemy Within – You know you have a really good point. Presidents throughout our history have shown they can do whatever they want and get away with it, so really…why not force Fox to tell the truth? Shutting down the opposition newspaper is a sign of weakness but forcing them to Not Lie would shame the contards.
@Come On Man – You can rationalize all you want, but at the end of the day, letting people die from lack of easily preventable diseases to save a few bucks is still institutional murder. Waiting until they are so sick they stumble into the emergency room is often too late when a single vaccine or pill might have fixed it.
It never ceases to amaze me what parts of their faith most southern christians focus on. Helping the poor? Nope. Protecting the weak? Nope. Helping children? Nope.
Its only the innocent that matter, until they’re born, and that trumps absolutely everything else. Heck, many of them don’t care about anything else in politics besides that. But they won’t lift a finger to help a child once they’re born.
And moderates think that this behavior is just the same as unions that have the gall to ask for a raise. Moderates think that Republicans are just as extreme as democrats. They show this by the poll numbers.
Nice.
Tom
June 19th, 2012
4:16 pm
The biggest irony?…..D88’s mythical “god” has eliminated more embryos and fetuses than all the legal abortion providers on the planet have ever and could ever.
Kris
June 19th, 2012
4:18 pm
Some people can fall in Scat and come out smelling fine …Just Saying how do you spell corruption… “Deal” Why is every time the idiots at the capitol meet quality BEHIND (locked and guarded doors the PEOPLE OF GA SILENTY GET SCREWED. In this case women.
If these doctors are so worried about their SAFETY then what they are doing in WRONG! OR could it be there are getting a cut of Nathen and Sonnys dirty DEAL on the t-pLOST>…..
One voice, one VOTE can make a difference
Your relationship with your doctor is private
You get to make your own decisions about your body
The war on women is real and must be stopped
waronwomen.com
OBAMA 2012.
GaBlue
June 19th, 2012
4:19 pm
The only thing HB954 accomplished was to interfere with a doctor’s ability to help a patient — who did not seek an abortion “of convenience” within the first three months, but most likely intended to carry to term — with the appropriate medical protocol in a pregnancy that went horribly wrong. Because of this interference, it’s reasonable to expect that some women who want and try to become mothers may lose their fertility, if not their lives (unless they can afford to seek treatment in another state). THIS is the testimony doctors were punished for giving. Educate yourselves, whydoncha.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
4:36 pm
@Tom – It isn’t Murder if God kills you. According to theology in pretty much all major world religions, God(s) can kill people as a matter of divine authority. Its only when people do it that it is murder…thus the ’sin’ isn’t ‘ending’ the person but usurping the authority of the divine.
Of course, again, we hardly see any outrage when people like Pat Roberts ursurp the divine to say that God sent a hurricane to a city because they were too Gay….
Don’t look for internal consistency where there is none, but it is lovely fun to point it out.
One Who Thinks
June 19th, 2012
4:54 pm
You know all these people who stand up and say don’t let someone get an abortion. I wonder how many of them would take the child that for what ever reason the person wanted the abortion and raise it as their own. They want to force that person to raise that child. If for some reason the fetus was abnormal and would not be a healthy child they would turn away and say that is not their problem. Just so long as the child was born.
A woman's life is worth nothing
June 19th, 2012
5:00 pm
What about ectopic pregnancies that aren’t discovered until later, or other conditions that are detrimental to the mother’s health? Are we just supposed to let them die?
One Who Thinks
June 19th, 2012
5:06 pm
What about someone else telling a woman what she can and cannot do with her body. How would you like it if someone came into your life and told you that you had no control over your body. I am a man by the way
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
5:09 pm
Abortion for these people isn’t REALLY about protecting the unborn children. It is about validating their faith in their own minds. Protecting the innocent makes for an easy emotional appeal, but other items that also hold emotional appeal (like helping the poor) are not sufficient to overcome other emotional pulls (like greed), so if the desire to do good isn’t their motive, what else could it be?
Validating their identity and their faith. Protect the tribe. Voting against Abortion costs them nothing, wheras feeding the poor does cost them something (even if it is a pitiance) and since Billionares have programmed them to believe that anyone receiving any help from the government whatsoever is a welfare moocher, they become sub human.
Again, in part because of identity. If the government is NOT evil, then their ancestors who owned other people were in the wrong. If the civil war was about slavery, then that means that they are descended from bad people and that makes THEM bad, makes THEIR culture responsible for causing pain.
Far easier to say the government is always bad, vote against the government ever being a solution to anything.
Reason is not a factor here. It never was, and it never will be.
Same thing with moderates. It isn’t about HOW extreme the position is. Its about being above the fray. Its about being special. If it was about avoiding extremism, the polls would reflect moderates punishing Republicans for their radical agenda. It isn’t.
Its about what makes them feel good, which in the case of conservatives is voting to validate the tribe, and in the case of moderates to validate themselves. Do liberals often vote based on emotion?
Sure, but the mainly vote on the emotion that by voting for government programs they’re helping people.
Logically, the government is helpful some of the time, so there is at a margin of logic behind liberal voting, whereas there is none with Republicans and of late with moderates, it seems there is none their either.
GaBlue
June 19th, 2012
5:26 pm
Aaron Burr V Mexico,
You left one out — one I witnessed at the Capitol during the very debate referenced here. The testimony on the House floor was heart wrenching. Woman after woman testified about their worst nightmares coming true in pregnancy, for themselves or their loved ones. Finding out the cherished hope they carried inside them was dead, or would surely die. Or that it threatened their lives or ability to have future children, or the ability to care for their families. The one about the child, brutally violated and afraid for her life if she told anyone… and the trauma of her condition she barely understood. Men, women, doctors… all came out on the side of medical sanity, and human decency and compassion.
Witnesses were SOBBING. Women, gathered around the closed-circuit monitor in the lobby, some choking back tears, some unable to.
Know what the GRTL goons were doing? Watching this scene of raw emotion and chuckling. Becker himself was leering at the tall pretty one wiping tears from her face. He was literally glowing with arousal. Yes, watching women cry gives this man a “rush.” I was there, and I know what I saw. The hair on the back of my neck stood on end, watching these sick sadists licking their lips. Vile. Controlling women is what some men need to feel like men. Sadly, these are the ones that get their way under our Gold Dome. Disgusting.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
5:35 pm
@GABlue – Men are biologically hardwired to experience pleasure by smiting ‘evil.’ Humans are in general but Men have a much more extreme reaction. Indeed, most people are entirely unaware of how much of our behavior is instinct and based on biology and brain chemistry rather than some isolated construct of pure reason we create.
For the leadership and the people that create their ideology, it IS in fact about controlling women but for most of the people out there wallowing in the misery they create I think it was more about ’smiting evil’ than it was about controlling women. But either way, there zealotry in the defense of the ‘unborn’ compared to their lack of enthusiasm in helping the less fortunate or just about any other Christian prerogative can be explained as an impulse not having anything to do with the unborn whatsoever.
Smiting Evil or Controlling Women, its roughly all the same. Especially when you believe in original sin that makes women collectively culpable of the fall of mankind and thus inherently unclean and wicked; you get to do both. Its the worm Ooroboros. One feeds into the other in a never ending chain of disgusting hate.
honested
June 19th, 2012
5:41 pm
One can only hope that these (probably) religious terrorists are arrested, charged, found guilty and given the longest possible prison sentences along with any and all co-conspirators.
All Georgians, as well as All Americans deserve to be free from this creeping plague.
Kris (lot of things can happen in 4 weeks)
June 19th, 2012
5:48 pm
My God is common sense wasted the minute you walk into the capitol. You think about it 20) vs 24 weeks, a lot of things can happen for example these people that are against ot might to decide to adopt that child that was a product of RAPE or INCEST..Probably not.
Just saying
One voice, one VOTE can make a difference
Your relationship with your doctor is private
You get to make your own decisions about your body
The war on women is real and must be stopped
waronwomen.com
Kris (lot of things can happen in 4 weeks)
June 19th, 2012
5:50 pm
http://waronwomen.com
From what I can tell this site is real.
DJ Sniper
June 19th, 2012
5:50 pm
I’ll bet my last $20 that some of these anti-abortion extremists have at least one member of their family that they’ve taken to have an abortion behind closed doors. That’s how it always is with people like that.
DJ Sniper
June 19th, 2012
5:53 pm
What gets me is how many people out here believe that the only reason a woman goes to get an abortion is because she simply doesn’t want to accept the consequences of getting pregnant at that particular time.
hiram
June 19th, 2012
6:09 pm
This issue, like most of society’s issues, can be attributed to religion. Unless a more intelligent species evolves on earth, or arrives from outer space, religion combined with technology will spell the end to us and most other life forms on the planet. I’m sure that Brother Deal, and Brother Ralston would disagree with that statement(in public), but unfortunately, it is accurate.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
6:19 pm
@Hiram – I don’t think most people are capable of staying sane without the concept of an afterlife. Religion makes life bearable, and I’m fine with that. I have spiritual beliefs myself, and even consider myself a follower of Christ (as compared to a Christian because I don’t want to associate myself with any group that ignores the teachings of Christ as much as they do) but I am also intelligent enough to use reason to understand that any experiences I’ve had that affirm that there might be something greater our there are personal and subjective.
Most people aren’t intelligent enough to compartmentalize reality as you can share it with other people, and reality as it is experienced by you that might not have any basis in rationality whatsoever. That’s to a large degree what faith is, but when your faith hogs in on MY ability to experience my faith based on laws and policies you want to create, then it becomes a problem.
Your LARP doesn’t get to interfere with my LARP.
And as long as Moderates think its OK to let that happen, Republicans will not stop. Their culture is about one upping the other about who can be the most radical. It is inevitable, therefore that they shall become more and more radical until finally it affects moderates personally, like it did with the crash in 2008. However, moderates also seem to have a memory of about 3 months.
What Obama would be smart to do would be to, regardless of anything Republicans say (remember Moderates do not reward attempts at compromise) state that the Democratic position on the Bush tax cuts will be based on how the economy performs before the election. If the economy does well, he’ll agree to some tax cuts for the rich. If it does poorly, then the tax cuts will expire and everyone’s taxes go up.
Watch billionaires take all that money they’re spending on attack ads and have them suddenly create jobs. If the dems lose, they’ll still have 40 seats in the senate and can filibuster till the cows come home (assuming they’re not dumb enough to still retain Reed as their leader).
Obama could turn the economy around RIGHT NOW if he did that…but he won’t, because he’s almost as dumb as Romney and still thinks appealing to Moderates means something.
concerned citizen
June 19th, 2012
6:21 pm
Doctors are supposed to do no harm and help save lives – not tear up some defenseless tiny humans because of an inconvenient pregnancy. Retribution is never justified as God alone will judge them but maybe they need to rethink their profession when their aim is to kill by stopping a beating heart. Most abortions occur when the baby has detectable brain waves and a heart beat – criteria by which life and the absence of both brain and heart activity are deemed as a lack of life, therefore by contrast the presence of both indicate the person is alive. Sad to have such mass murders that our society condones and encourages, as well as killing just because the baby is a female.
hiram
June 19th, 2012
6:26 pm
@Aaronburr
Humor me, and scan over this list, then report back: http://godisimaginary.com/index.htm
DJ Sniper
June 19th, 2012
6:32 pm
Concerned citizen, you just proved my point. There are women out here who have had to get an abortion for medically necessary reasons, not because they simply did not want to be saddled with a baby that they really didn’t want. Stop trying to put all women in one category.
Shar
June 19th, 2012
6:47 pm
@Concerned citizen, I had a molar pregnancy. Simply put, the pregnancy gave me cancer, and all those human growth hormones pumping through my body put the cancer on overdrive. When we found out, my husband and I had to trust the expertise of the doctor – and that he was NOT being forced to tell us lies or limit our options – and we had to decide between my life and the fetus. As it happened, I miscarried (God’s abortion), but a molar pregnancy can be carried to term by a woman who usually dies.
Can you tell me why your “concerns” and judgemental attitude about “inconvenience” and “tiny humans” had any place, at all, in that room? Why your “concerns” should have any effect on what my doctor could tell my husband and me, or what options should have been available to us?
Many, many women are faced with choices like ours. Some completely uninvolved third party simply has no place in the discussion. Those who demand that their way is best cannot stand that stark fact, and they resort to the kinds of terrorism that has been visited upon doctors who respect their patients and who try to offer the best possible care for them, as well as bribing legislators to pass laws shoving their agenda, their preconceptions and their doctrine into cases where they fail to persuade.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
6:49 pm
Hiram, the same test can be applied anything but base survival. For example, most atheists are under the delusion that they are rational beings when they most often put their delusion in something else like the market, the goodness of mankind, a nation or something else. Humans need to believe in something. It is part of who we are. And there is nothing wrong with that so long as your magic feather doesn’t crush mine. Indeed the very belief in the need to spread atheism itself can be a magic feather. Note, I do distinguish between atheism itself and faith in militant atheism. You can be an atheist and not be a jerk.
The guy who put that site together is definitely a jerk.
hiram
June 19th, 2012
7:05 pm
Aaron Burr says: “And there is nothing wrong with that so long as your magic feather doesn’t crush mine.”
The problem is, your magic feather does crush mine. Remember 9/11 – it was an act of faith, that spawn the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars, or at least justified to the serfs, the activation of the military industrial complex, to save us from the next expression of religious beliefs. Religion is a form of mental illness – a worldwide pandemic of insanity.
yuzeyurbrane
June 19th, 2012
7:13 pm
I hate to tell Ralston, Deal and their kind but they are in some ways more reprehensible than the people who actually pull the trigger since they have demagogued the abortion issue to the max even though they know better. It just doesn’t cut the mustard for them to belatedly run in and wring their hands in mock shock at what has been done by the violent rabble they have incited.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
7:13 pm
Atheism is not as responsible for as many atrocities as religion but, be assured it has been responsible for them. An inability to respect another’s rights is just as much a mental illness save that one is schizophrenia and the other narcistic megalomania.
Kris
June 19th, 2012
7:21 pm
AS the citizens (especially women) of GA and across the US get screwed by idiots like naty DEAL (Money grabbing corrupt ). I agree with
DJ Sniper June 19th, 2012 5:50 pm
“I’ll bet my last $20 that some of these anti-abortion extremists have at least one member of their family that they’ve taken to have an abortion behind closed door”
I would like to see deal an Ralston’s medical degree (probably Like their politicians’ license FAKE as they are. The GOP is a self serving mafia
Vote the thieves out (GOP)
OBAMA 2012
hiram
June 19th, 2012
7:29 pm
Aaronburr said: “An inability to respect another’s rights is just as much a mental illness save that one is schizophrenia and the other narcistic megalomania.”
I respect your narcistic megalomania right to believe that the billions of stars and planets that we can actually see from earth, and all of those beyond, are there just to enhance our night time experience, and that nothing we do to our little planet or its other inhabitants matters, because it is just a temporary stop along our journey to those pearly gates. This actually goes beyond schizophrenia, it’s insanity.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
7:35 pm
Have I, tiny little man, at any point stated what I actually believe save I consider myself a follower of Christ? That can mean most anything and I have no intention of providing details for your self agrandizing crusade. You hurt your cause more than help it. You could say the same for me but, honestly, much like my beliefs you are unlikely to discern what my agenda actually is.
hiram
June 19th, 2012
7:53 pm
@Aaronburr said:
“…much like my beliefs you are unlikely to discern what my agenda actually is.”
I really haven’t given much thought to your agenda, and most probably, neither has any other rational person who reads your posts. It’s all relative…
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
8:37 pm
@Hiram – Because its rational to call all human spiritual experience besides Athemism a mental illness and expect them to be receptive to the idea. K then.
hiram
June 19th, 2012
8:45 pm
Athemism(sic), isn’t a spiritual experience – they are diametrically opposed viewpoints…
td
June 19th, 2012
9:05 pm
This debate is a waist of time, Either one believes that life begins at conception and having an abortion is murder or abortion is not murder and you can kill an unborn child. Either outlaw abortion or make it legal to the time of birth, all this other debate is useless
honested
June 19th, 2012
9:43 pm
td,
The word is spelled ‘waste’ , like in the sentence ‘maintaining government oversight of private reproductive decisions is a waste of power’ or ‘maintaining the most expensive military industrial complex in the history of the universe is a ‘waste’ of taxpayer’s money’.
But your last sentence is accurate, and if somehow I woke up in charge of the universe, pregnancy termination clinics would be in every drug store in the country open 24/7 with armed guards to go for head shots against the lunatic fringe protesters.
honested
June 19th, 2012
9:44 pm
hiram,
I’m with you!
rr
June 19th, 2012
9:46 pm
@ GA Blue
“Those lunatic fringe folks are getting more arrogant in their delusions that they have the right to rule over the rest of us. I saw them at the Capitol during this debate. They get a sick sense of gratification exerting their own sense of power through bullying. They are perverts.”
You do realize you just described those protestors AGAINST HB87 at the capital dome right?
Bernie
June 19th, 2012
9:53 pm
Jim, I love the premise in the title of Your article “The chill on conversation at the state Capitol. ”
The only “CHILL” that is being felt, is by the “ALL” of the Millions of Women of Georgia and America by a insensitive and suicidal political Party insisting that one particular gender being Women, be held to a different standard of MEN, when it comes to their Healthcare issues
One would think that in this day and time that these issues have already been debated,voted on and enacted in to LAW. A logical person would think that is not case here in Georgia. Just as with the Civil WAR, This issue is still going on in a lot of our legislators minds.
Hopefully, come November the Women of Georgia and across this Great Nation will have their say about all of these draconian FIATS!
td
June 19th, 2012
10:02 pm
Bernie
June 19th, 2012
9:53 pm
“be held to a different standard of MEN, when it comes to their Healthcare issues”
Since when has abortion become a healthcare issue? Was it framed that way in Roe by the SCOTUS?
Women have extra special rights that men do not have. A man can not choose life or death over a human being without due process but a woman can.
Kris
June 19th, 2012
10:28 pm
Please vote these idiots out of office (can;t vote them out IMPEACH or Recall) them for incompetent.
Otherwise dealing deal will have some quack from TV in the capitol telling every one they have to have a rectal exam every 6 months. Both male and female.
My god we need jobs in GA not more stupid laws that will cause billions to fight in court to only LOOSE. BILLIONS better spent on cheaply laid asphalt.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
11:16 pm
@TD – Well I agree that some kinds of debate are worthless, particularly anything you ever really say or think or feel or will think or feel or say or likely do, but since there are other people in the ‘room’ I feel that this time I will address your shotgun spaghetti arguments.
First, I’m sorry, but, like Hiram, you don’t get to decide, by fiat, the choice of the debate. I know contards like to ‘frame’ and say, ‘either you’re with us or against us’ but the question *IS* more complicated, especially since up until recently most christians besides catholics did NOT believe life began at conception but were (and often are) still horrified by abortion. Of course, since it is a religious question it shouldn’t even BE a question for a secular government but you and many like you like to pretend that this is a “Christian nation.”
But I digress…
The question of what it means to be Human is MUCH more complicated and nuanced than a zygote. Sorry. It is. The Supreme Court in Roe V Wade did the best they could and YES, a majority opinion of what it means to be a human would be nice. Is it the human mind? What about Conservatives? They’re clearly mentally challenged individuals…do we consider them human….what about someone in a Coma?
On the other hand, do we really want to equate the rights of someone who has reason skills but who might be ethically challenged (say…Hiram for example) with those of a single cell? A single cell really has all the rights of a fully functional and mostly human being? Does it get to vote?
And, removing the question of religion, what benefit does society get by making Zygotes citizens, especially when one understands that by doing so one effectively makes women prisoners of their own bodies, and that under no circumstances do men get to control the sex lives of women. It a non starter as a question when religion is removed. So do the rights of the woman get eclipsed by this zygote…THING which has no blood, no heart, no brain, no eyes.
I, for one, think I’m worth more than a bit of goop which not only cannot comprehend pain but cannot experience it.
You are totally entitled to your religious beliefs but you are not allowed to use them in political discussion. And if you absolutely feel you must desecrate the halls of law and state with such discussion then what makes your religion more qualified than mine? Don’t cite the founding fathers because most of them were Deists, which is not Christian or Secular Humanists, which isn’t a religion. And really, we should probably exclude Slavers, because no one who thought owning another human being was a cool idea should be allowed to have a weight in any discussion in the modern era.
So it is more than the binary question your tiny mind would execute.
And now to your second and rather pathetic post, which basically demands that men have the same rights as women on this issue. First, are you a woman trapped in a man’s body? Because really, if you feel that way, I assure you, there are many surgical and chemical options to help you with your vagina envy. Second, do you have a period? Are you physically weaker and more brittle than nearly 50% of the planet? So…if not, then how does you claim a right to what happens in someone else’s body, especially for children that aren’t your own?
It IS a health care issue, because, strange as it might seem TD, a person’s health, the woman, the OTHER ‘person’ in this discussion, has health issues.
Even if we accept that the blob of protoplasm is a person, and should be able to vote (does it need a photo ID to do so? Until it is born do we know if it is Kenyan yet or not?); even if we accept your view of things, surely even YOU, even you TD must understand that there are TWO ‘people’ to this question, the blob of protoplasm and the WOMAN, a fully formed thinking human being.
Now I realize human beings might not be worth much, after all, one sixth (one third of women) agree that they’re worth less than goo by agreeing with you, and are arrogant on a regular basis, but they are still worth something. Yes, even women, apple eating, death creating women, sinners by nature all, yes even those are actually saved by Jesus in your theology.
So really, pretty much everything you have said, or are likely to ever say, much like Hiram, or, shockingly Honested, is pretty much crap.
Have a nice day.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
11:20 pm
@Hiram – It erased my first response, so I’ll give you the thumbnail version.
You’re full of crap.
In fact its coming out of your ears. I know many atheists who consider themselves spiritual and they also, by and large do not feel the need to militantly spout off how superior they are.
Aaron’s Axiom #42: The louder the mouth on the Atheist, the more they secretly don’t believe what it is that they’re saying.
Do you dream of hellfire at night Hiram? Is the devil coming for you? Well shout it louder and I’m sure it will make you feel better.
And from a purely tactical stand point, acting on the behalf of any other philosophy or creed or religion, we want to thank you for reducing the competitiveness of your own paradigm to that of the “Head On” commercial. There is a subset of folks who might find it awesome, but by and large I’m sure they’re turned off by your vacuousness.
@Honested – You disappointment me. You are ‘with’ Hiram? Well, we can all be marked by the company we keep. So I guess most anything I said to him applies to you as well. So sad. So sorry. Bye bye now.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
June 19th, 2012
11:32 pm
One last note Hiram, a dictionary is a marvelous tool for people to look up the definition of words:
a·the·ism [ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
spir·it·u·al·i·ty [spir-i-choo-al-i-tee] Show IPA
noun, plural spir·it·u·al·i·ties.
1.
the quality or fact of being spiritual.
2.
incorporeal or immaterial nature.
3.
predominantly spiritual character as shown in thought, life, etc.; spiritual tendency or tone.
4.
Often, spiritualities. property or revenue of the church or of an ecclesiastic in his or her official capacity.
It is not, “The philisophy of not being religious because religions are insane because Hiram, God King of the Universe and Knower of All Things Good because his Good Buddy Honested the Honester Honest You Can Believe Him Said So.”
Those are hardly diametrically opposed philosophies. Black and White. Fire and Ice. You and Class. THESE are opposed, but ‘not material’ is hardly something that defines an atheist.
But please, ask the other Atheists, I’m sure they’ll be happy to elect YOU as their spokesperson. You’re doing a bang up so far. Just ask Honested.
S
June 20th, 2012
12:04 am
Next thing you know the Republican Religious Police will be making all Women wear Burka’s and making sure their ankles are covered, right here in river city..
It’s not about babies, never was, never will be..it is about control, power and the vote. Republicans need the sheep vote to get elected because otherwise they would never get elected on their moronic policy’s.
Ho hum, this is so 1970’s..yes it has been that long we women have been fighting for our rights and I don’t know about the rest of you women out there but I’m getting darn sick and tired of these moron’s trying to take our rights away!
Get out the vote, Women have the majority, vote these Religious wacko fanatic’s out come election time. Write down their names so you won’t forget. Drag everyone registered person you can think of to vote(18 years and up) on election day we can remove these Extremist Legislators from office, WE HAVE THE NUMBERS!
If you hesitate, just remember this, in some wacky religious countries that have religious police and if those religious police see you lick an ice cream cone, in public, they can put you in hoosegow..just keep that thought in mind when voting. These Extremist office holders know no bounds, the only way is to vote them out of office and restore sanity to this state and the country.
GaBlue
June 20th, 2012
12:05 am
Aaron B V Mex,
Yo td! Are you a woman trapped in a man’s body? HAHAHA!
OMG, now we know! V-ENVY! Hahahaha! Too funny!
Bernie
June 20th, 2012
12:10 am
td @ 10:02 pm – TD something tells me you were born without a Vagina. For If you did, you would certainly be offended by those who do not have a VAGINA, making LAWS about healthcare decisions forcing, those who do have a Vagina to abide by.
Come November we will hear from all of those who do have a Vagina. I am quite sure they disagree 100% with your opinion about how and what they should do about the decisions they make about THEIR Vagina.
For what ever reason, You and others like you, do not seem too fully grasp the understanding of that FACT.
Bernie
June 20th, 2012
12:25 am
td @ 10:02 pm – As far as your comment ” Women have extra special rights that men do not have. A man can not choose life or death over a human being without due process but a woman can.”
That is a decision you need to take up with GOD. For he/she was the chief architect of that design and I am in no position to decide and nether are you in the development and use of it. I personally believe that the American Woman is one of the greatest beings on this planet. I trust that she will make the right decision for herself,her family and her body without the help of the many legislators who think otherwise. She does not need, desire or want , “JIMBOB’s” opinion or approval in her personal decision making. Trust ME!
ld
June 20th, 2012
1:48 am
Bernie
From the female gender, thank you for 12:25 am post.
Attack Dog
June 20th, 2012
5:55 am
1. Dixiecrats are anti-abortion for any reason. Remember the whoopla about 2,000 annual late term abortions that were done to save women? 2. Dixiecrats are about responsibility and criticize women for getting pregnant or having babies without means of supporting them. 3. Dixiecrats feel that it is a badge of honor to be a deadbeat dad, and even elect them to office 4. The majority of women want to return to being second class citizens because of the actions of the old Republican Party values.
Buckhead Boy
June 20th, 2012
6:23 am
Ah, a story about the consequences of the two pillars of Neo-Republican male obsession: eroding privacy rights and extending gun rights. It would certainly be interesting if we could offer the Neo Republican male the personal choice of their partner having their baby or them keeping their firearms. Walmart would soon be opening contraception/abortion superstores throughout the land, I bet.
honested
June 20th, 2012
8:04 am
Aaron B….
Sorry to disappoint, but without the interference of those who are guided by an ‘imaginary friend’ we would not be having this argument or wasting any valuable legislative time at the State of Federal level.
The Bill of Rights ensures freedom from religion by prohibiting preferential treatment to the implausible suppositions of any superstition. Therefore, any arguments based primarily on exercise of religion (or forceful exercise upon another based on religion) have no place whatsoever in the governmental process.
Beyond that, everyone is free to practice and follow whatever nonsense they can invent on whatever special days they contrive, as long as they don’t interfere with me or anyone else with ANY law based on the nonsense.
Think for a moment, how much of our current government oversight is based on absolute fantasy derived from ‘organized religion’? I just reached the point a couple of decades back where I decided to no longer quietly tolerate the oppression of organized insanity.
hiram
June 20th, 2012
8:42 am
@honested
The paradox with the religious ones, is that whatever “belief” they suscribe to, they consider to be uniquely valid. While Mitt is baptising the dead, and Tom Cruise is monitoring his E Meter, Muslims are blowing themselves up to get to their 72 virgins. All the while, they regard the other guy’s “belief” as total nonsense, which is exactly what atheist do, except they apply it to all of them.
yellowdog.
June 20th, 2012
8:57 am
no room for debate by men here; the antigovt GOP only wants to get in women’s pants and legislate their behavior…………neanderthals are back.
Proud Voter
June 20th, 2012
9:32 am
The churches need to get out of politics, and politics need to get out of religion. If my doctor recommends that I have my pregnancy terminated, it is none of my legislators’ business. If I have a problem with a law or government issue, I don’t need to make an appointment with my obstetrician. I don’t want any religion to run my government. Separation of church and state was important to our founding fathers, a term the Tea Party so often have abused, and I respect that. I believe abortion for birth control is wrong, but the decision to have an abortion for a myriad of other reasons is valid. It is impossible to legislate morality.
RexDogma
June 20th, 2012
10:07 am
The republicans operate with this lunatic fringe as their voiting base. Why does this not suprise me. They cannot control their folks, Just bring in the crazies and get their voites. Does not matter what they do or say that is just plain crazy!!!
Proud Voter
June 20th, 2012
10:17 am
Why are so many allowing the few unreasonable to dictate what the whole must do?
DJ Sniper
June 20th, 2012
11:13 am
If ya’ll think this is bad, check out what Kansas is trying to do. They are trying to pass legislation that will allow doctors to withhold medical information from a woman if that information would lead to her getting an abortion. Not only that, it would shield doctors from malpractice lawsuits if the woman develops medical issues due to this omission. Oh, they’re also wanting doctors to repeat the lie that abortion is linked to breast cancer.
honested
June 20th, 2012
12:09 pm
DJ,
Kansas, what’s the matter with Kansas?
Why are such a dedicated few so interested in overturning fact based medicine?
DJ Sniper
June 20th, 2012
12:37 pm
Honested, I wish I knew. The Christian Taliban is working overtime to try and make this country a theocracy. It’s one thing to oppose abortion, but requiring doctors to flat out lie to patients is just wrong on every level.