New poll doesn’t bode well for metro Atlanta’s transportation sales tax
Channel 2 Action News is touting a Rosetta Stone poll that shows strong opposition outside Fulton and DeKalb counties to the July 31 transportation sales tax initiative:
The poll found 42 percent support the referendum, while 45 percent oppose it. Thirteen percent remain undecided.
Voters in DeKalb and Fulton counties showed overwhelming support for the tax, by a 52 to 33 percent margin. The numbers are nearly exact opposites in the other eight suburban counties where the measure is opposed by a 20 point margin.
This isn’t what proponents were looking for – not midway through a campaign that has already blanketed voters with direct mail and not a small amount of TV.
We hope to have some cross tabs and methodology to offer you soon.
- By Jim Galloway, Political Insider
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119 comments Add your comment
Centrist
May 21st, 2012
4:58 pm
Told you so.
Middleist
May 21st, 2012
5:00 pm
See you tomorrow.
td
May 21st, 2012
5:04 pm
Conservatives are not willing to pay additional taxes for rail and the belt line.
Kris T.
May 21st, 2012
5:07 pm
As the question of ethics comes up how dirty is this DEAL for the taxpayers.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
May 21st, 2012
5:08 pm
“New poll doesn’t bode well for metro Atlanta’s transportation sales tax”
The most amazing revelation is that the powers-that-be actually needed a poll to confirm what mostly everyone in Metro Atlanta outside of Fulton and DeKalb counties already knew.
Trusslady
May 21st, 2012
5:09 pm
It’s not a conservative thing, td. I’m voting NO. This is not a plan for easing traffic. It’s a gimme to the many road contractors on behalf of GDOT. Adding more roads will not solve the traffic problem in Atlanta. A more comprehensive metro system will, and the fact that that cannot be seen by the powers that be, is the reason why people won’t vote for it.
We’ve paid for roads and had them turned into Toll Roads with more to come. We are paying for roads two and three times over with no end in sight. Fool me once………….
Enough is enough.
Ga Values
May 21st, 2012
5:10 pm
If you like the job Reed did stealing at the airport just wait until he is finished with the Beltline. If you like the current management of Marta you’ll love the job they are going to do on expansion.. VOTE NO FOR WASTE & CORRUPTION
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
May 21st, 2012
5:10 pm
Kris T.
May 21st, 2012
5:07 pm
“As the question of ethics comes up how dirty is this DEAL for the taxpayers?”
Too dirty to even mention.
tombop
May 21st, 2012
5:21 pm
not a liberal/conservative issue- it’s pure dollars and sense!! All the road projects around here have been butchered by the state and local governments. That’s why we have the problems now!!! MARTA’s been a case study in mismanagement. Making people pay extra to use roads in Gwinnett when our gas taxes have already built them….Looking for “private partners” for roads in NW area… JUST SAY NO!!!! All these politicians are the same- they’re Rep. now, but were Dem., and will switch back if the wind blows that way. They want way too much money and deliver way too little for it- back to the taxpayers, even though their buddies do quite well.
Ga Values
May 21st, 2012
5:27 pm
AJC on CORRUPTION at the airport
http://www.politifact.com/georgia/statements/2012/may/21/kasim-reed/mayor-kasim-reed-airport-concession-awards-most-op/
Real Athens
May 21st, 2012
5:30 pm
Real “conservatives” would take the train and ride bicycles when applicable. The word has lost its true meaning.
B. Thenet
May 21st, 2012
5:36 pm
The Cobb delegation on this made a huge mess out of their piece, there is really no incentive for anyone in Cobb to vote for this.
honested
May 21st, 2012
5:38 pm
Let’s stop and think how hard the ‘Bush Depression’ has been on the road builders. Even with the huge windfalls thrown their way by ’sonny the corrupt’ many (like chip pearson) were unable to make it on the mainline they had to the public till.
So, they came up with this ‘pay forever’ scheme with the aid of small town politicians and that pinnacle of unvarnished greed, the chamber of commerce. Put together a rove-style sales campaign and it should be a shoo-in.
Luckily, Georgians are finally awakening to just who they have put in charge and just how carefully they have to watch those ‘public servants’ lest they just get busy and serve us all in a public manner.
This is why we have a motor fuel tax and why it should be tripled to adjust for the massive inflation that has occurred since it was last adjusted.
Then we can have a TSPLOST for TRANSIT that will both cost and benefit those who NEED public transportation and are not otherwise contributing to the motor fuel tax.
But that would be good and responsible government, so it may take another generation or so.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
May 21st, 2012
5:44 pm
B. Thenet
May 21st, 2012
5:36 pm
“The Cobb delegation on this made a huge mess out of their piece, there is really no incentive for anyone in Cobb to vote for this.”
Look who’s in charge in Cobb: Cobb County Commission Chair “Professor Clueless” Tim Lee and State Senator “I TWICE voted for the T-SPLOST before I was against it” Chip Rogers.
With idiots like those two knuckleheads leading the way, why wouldn’t the result be anything other than a huge mess?
Will in Roswell
May 21st, 2012
5:47 pm
I’m voting no. You know how it is – a billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you’re talking about real money.
North resident
May 21st, 2012
5:52 pm
Hmm… a study comes out that shows that the TSPLOST will not improve things (at all) for those outside of Atlanta, and someone is surprised that those who will not benefit from it will not vote for it?
Screw the whole R vs. D aspect…. this is Atlanta/South Fulton/Dekalb getting the lions share of money for a list of projects that will not improve metro Atlanta traffic at all. If this project list tackled hard topics… like extending rail to Alpharetta or figuring out how to get passengers from Duluth to Marietta without doing multiple stops in Atlanta and taking 2-3 hours each way, then the TSPLOST would get more support. So instead of a train out to Alpharetta, North Fulton gets the belt line. WhooDeeShiite. Nobody in North Fulton, D or R, thinks that is even remotely fair or practical.
I would love to take a train from Alpharetta to Emory every day. In fact, a train to Downtown/Emory/Perimeter would be a big boon to the area. But someone has decided light rail from Cobb or the belt line is more important.
The entire 400 corridor gets little-to-nothing for 10 years. Not mass transit, not new roads… nothing. I am voting “No”.
Frustrated in Gwinnett
May 21st, 2012
5:54 pm
I am a no vote. At best this is a band aid. A band aid will help but not heal the gaping wound that is Atlanta traffic. It is going to take some very innovative thinking to significantly affect our traffic. This Sales tax is not it. The other comments are correct, this is old thinking supported by those who will profit.
Double Zero Eight
May 21st, 2012
5:55 pm
People in bordering counties such as Carroll and Forsyth
can vote no on their referendum, yet reap the benefits if
the measure passes in the “so called” 10 county metro region..
People in those counties that work in downtown Atlanta, Buckhead
or the Airport have little incentive to vote yes for their referendum.
They can “piggyback” and reap countless benefits if the measure
passes in the 10 county metro region as it is presently configured.
Job Creator
May 21st, 2012
5:57 pm
This vote will directly affect whether or not companies will locate to Georgia. Period.
Georgia’s competitors are licking their chops right now. If this vote fails, it will carve in stone the number one marketing point for the Chambers of Commerce in numerous, nearby regional areas (not to mention other competitive areas around the world).
Our housing market is already starting to look like Detroit. If we completely flush ourselves down the toilet, I think you can look to this time period, and to this vote as the moment when we finally lost it.
DD96
May 21st, 2012
5:59 pm
There is a blueprint for a workable Plan B — and it should be acted upon BEFORE Plan A fails:
http://www.north-x-northwest.com
It’s amazing how quickly things can get done behind the scenes, especially when it empowers lawmakers. This poll might be the trigger.
No plan / project list is perfect, but some are simply more likely to pass muster at the ballot box than others. It’s all about striking the right balance.
Rabbit
May 21st, 2012
6:08 pm
td writes: “Conservatives are not willing to pay additional taxes for rail and the belt line.”
I accept this as an accurate statement, but it puzzling. If conservatives are pro-business and virtually every thriving metropolis in the country on the same scale as Atlanta is forging ahead of Atlanta on the accepted premise that mass transit is at least as sustainable as roads when you factor in business location decisions. Even Charlotte and Phoenix have invested in light rail with significant popular support. Why does the “drown Fulton County in the bathtub” crowd not get the necessity for a vibrant and accessible urban core?
I hate to say it, but fear of demographic shifts have played a role in deep south transportation decisions for the last 40 years and because of this wrongheadedness, we will face the prospect of sliding into the second tier of southern states. Poor, but proud – and none too bright.
John
May 21st, 2012
6:10 pm
No. Not one penny to the state of georgia who will squander it. I don’t trust the state employees to manage it at all. They are all corrupt. GA 400. Nuff said.
Susan
May 21st, 2012
6:12 pm
Get informed about the referendum and the transportation projects before you decide how to vote. ARC, local officials and transportation professionals will be hosting Wireside Chats about the referendum from June 4 – 14. Participate by phone from your own home. Learn more and register at: http://bit.ly/JjUjXO
Check out an interactive map to see what projects will be built near where you live and travel: http://bit.ly/KgRseM
See what Politifact has to say about the transportation referendum campaign: http://bit.ly/JDbPVU
Rabbit
May 21st, 2012
6:18 pm
For the unceasingly “entitled” North Fulton crowd, the last major line of MARTA pushed out the 400 corridor. While Cobb has only itself to blame for being late to the party, there is significant need in that corridor. We lost 8 years under Gov. Purdon’t and it will take another 8 to catch up. For everyone who wants it now, vote ‘no’ if you choose, but take care that your suburban home doesn’t slide upside down on the mtg/equity line.
Real Athens
May 21st, 2012
6:18 pm
Rabbit:
You mention Charlotte. No one need look any further than Chattanooga.
Rabbit
May 21st, 2012
6:27 pm
We see homes losing 70% value (that’s right, 70%), land losing 80-90% value in the suburbs. Civility takes a hit when people spend 2-3 hours a day crawling along in traffic with cheaters riding up the emergency lanes and taking crazy risks to gain a 5 second advantage. Will T-SPLOST stop this? No. Will doing nothting be better? NO. This referendum is a measure of whether the public is so anti-tax than it will drown in its own swill, or whether it will begin to accept that transportation is best done by government and in Georgia (except for the last 30 years) we’ve done it better than our neighbors.
Shar
May 21st, 2012
6:29 pm
@honested, Trusslady et al: Amen. This project list gives little or nothing to anyone except the developers, bond backers and construction companies, who in turn make it all worthwhile for the politicians. Delivering value for the money to the taxpayers didn’t even make their radar screens. They just salivate at the excuse to create another reason for a huge tax increase and never-ending slush fund.
If we need to build more roads, the politicians need to suck it up and pass a gas tax increase to fund construction. The Transit Initiative was supposed to fund new thinking about efficient, effective means to move people throughout the metro region, not augment the DOT road budget and squeeze in projects that the state has chosen not to prioritize.
We need real transit, not a tourist carousel like the Beltline (a fine idea as a ring of parks and bike/pedestrian right of ways, but never, never an effective, efficient transit option) or influence-ridden special projects like the rail link to Emory. This process has reflected the mindset of planners and special interests holding on fiercely to the old, single vehicle paradigm which has to be replaced. We will never be able to build enough roads to end traffic. We need to make it attractive, convenient and affordable to change commute habits and get people out of their individual cars.
Other cities have done this successfully. Atlanta can, too. This project list keeps us locked in the 1950’s. Throw it out and demand better. This has nothing to do with political affiliation and everything to do with common sense.
findog
May 21st, 2012
6:32 pm
As Nancy advised in the early 80’s, “Just say no!”
earthworx
May 21st, 2012
6:49 pm
I’d feel more confident voting for this if the ethically-challenged Gov. Deal and Mayor Reed had nothing to do with it. If this is approved the money will just end up in the pockets of their cronies, ala the H.O.T. lane fiasco and the new Hartsfield terminal boondoggle.
Kevin Clark
May 21st, 2012
6:55 pm
Please note that every new road is a tax as well; in fact, it’s a triple tax: 1) taxpayers pay to put it in (often); 2) taxpayers pay to maintain it; 3) taxpayers pay to use it (gas tax, ad valorem tax). And then, taxpayers are stuck with traffic, pollution, and $4 gas. We’ve been going down this path for 60 years – it is time to realize these items (traffic, pollution, gas prices, loss of agriculture) are all heading in the wrong direction we need to change.
Transit options (keep in mind this bill is only about half transit,half automobile-focused) reduce other costs and tax burdens as well. For example, the average American family spends about 20% of their income on personal transportation (their car, gas, insurance, maintenance, etc). For the middle class, this is a huge chunk of change that can send a middle-class individual into poverty; resulting in a burden on other taxpayers to provide welfare and other subsidies. With transit options (such as bus, train, or walking) these lower-income class individuals would spend less money on their car (and gas, tolls, insurance, etc) and more money on food, shelter and clothing, reducing the burden on other taxpayers.
For all the fiscal conservatives out there (and I am one) – please consider voting for this bill – it is a very short term cost, with a huge long term benefit. Just follow the math, it will lead you to YES.
Big t
May 21st, 2012
6:58 pm
Vote NO,….. Make them come up with a better plan
Can we Trust them????
Johns creek
May 21st, 2012
7:15 pm
I live in Fulton county and I am voting no on this tax. The plan is a boondoggle and will not help reduce traffic. we already pay a Marta sales tax, that is a waste of money. No other county wants to pay for MARTA.
hiram
May 21st, 2012
7:26 pm
Since the voters in Georgia have sat on their hands and allowed the Governor to dismantle the mechanism that monitered political ethics, their is absolutely NO ACCOUNTABILITY for the expenditures of your TAX MONEY. One thing that you can be certain of, is that representing the best interest of the citizens of Georgia, is NOT the politicians number one priority.
findog
May 21st, 2012
7:42 pm
It cannot be a big deal, I mean they took four years to pass it and put off the vote for 15 months. Just vote NO!
Kris T.
May 21st, 2012
7:42 pm
Hiram
Amen
kwn
May 21st, 2012
7:58 pm
I would support it if half wasn’t dedicated to expanding MARTA lines.
So, once they get the message they can go back to the drawing board. But you know what will happen then right? Give a few more perks to the outter counties and keep MARTA in it. THen I will still vote against it.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
May 21st, 2012
8:17 pm
From today’s Creative Loafing:
http://clatl.com/freshloaf/archives/2012/05/21/clark-howard-endorses-transportation-tax&cb=a3f7a04a1baf26346dbe2477840ec205&sort=desc#readerComments
“Clark Howard, the consumer advocate and media personality who’s helped protect countless metro Atlantans from huckster scam artists trying to sell bridges and broke-ass Betamax players, says he’ll vote for the regional transportation tax on July 31.”
He’ll likely be the one of the scant few voting for this farcical scam designed to put more public money in the already-deep pockets of the crooks Downtown (Gold Dome, Atlanta City Hall, Atlanta Regional Commission, etc) and their bloodsucking cronies.
Right-Wing-Dinger
May 21st, 2012
8:22 pm
No taxes for anything. Let the freakin’ infrastructure decay and turn to dust. That’s the way it was in the mid 19th centure and those of us who are right-wing-dingers like it that way.
The same is true of taxes for education. A school marm and a one room school teaching reading, riting, rithmetic and religion is what we need to get us back on course.
Two are three more victories like 2010 and we’ll be where we ought to be — back in the good ol’ days.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
May 21st, 2012
8:26 pm
kwn
May 21st, 2012
7:58 pm
No more drawing board.
This town (including the City of Atlanta, Georgia state government, the unethical governments of metro counties and the regional powers-that-be at the Atlanta Regional Commission) desperately needs to clean-up its act, with ETHICS in GOVERNMENT, before it can even hope to proceed on the transportation front.
Until then, what’s the point of going forward if we know that rather than helping to relieve severe traffic, our money is going to end up in the already deep pockets of greedy developers, roadbuilders, and now trainbuilders, via the disgustingly grubby little hands of some slimy crooked politicians who are on the take.
YeahRight
May 21st, 2012
8:26 pm
Just amazing, but not surprising.
Those that need the transportation the most, are the least willing to pay for it. But why not? They haven’t really had to do so in the past, so why should they ever?
Investment has to come from somewhere – and private companies don’t invest in commuter transportation. The returns are not financial, only higher quality of life, pollution reduction, stress reduction, more time with the family – hard to trade that in for cash.
This is short term thinking at its best.
As for the complaints about the Beltline – what a bunch of unsubstantiated hogwash. If the folks in the city don’t get something, they will be willing to vote ‘no’ and let the ‘burbs choke on their sprawl. Its called compromise – oh, yeah, that doesn’t happen anymore.
YeahRight
May 21st, 2012
8:41 pm
… and there is always the alternative:
Do nothing, and traffic will get better, eventually.
After all, when all the businesses abandon the area – there will be fewer cars on the road, and the commute times will improve. This is just like it did in Detroit.
But by then, your house will have been foreclosed, your neighborhood will be boarded up, you will have lost your job and you will have moved elsewhere… so it won’t matter.
bulldog
May 21st, 2012
8:48 pm
vote no on any tax, they just line their pockets
dc
May 21st, 2012
8:58 pm
love how folks say conservatives are the ones who are dirty. what a crock. the worst, most crooked cities in america are and have been democrat strongholds for years.
I know anyone can post anything on these blogs, but seriously, at least try to make a statement that has some semblance of truth to it.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
May 21st, 2012
9:19 pm
YeahRight
May 21st, 2012
8:26 pm
“Investment has to come from somewhere – and private companies don’t invest in commuter transportation.”
That’s not necessarily true.
There were a bevy of companies, both foreign and domestic, that bid on the proposed I-75/I-575 HOT Lanes project (which has a heavy transit element to it as commuter buses will use the lanes) before it was cancelled as a Public-Private Partnership (P3) back in December with Spanish company Cintra leading the field of potential suitors due to being prepared to turn in the highest bid, which was going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 million dollars.
The number of multiple suitors that expressed serious interest in the I-75/I-575 Northwest Corridor proves that private companies would readily bid on rail transit projects if given the chance, it’s just that the government has never put a rail transit project out for bid in addition to never expressing an interest in making rail transit even anywhere near close to being profitable.
There’s a prevalent false belief that transit can only be operated with very heavy government subsidies in the form of increased sales taxes and that is not true.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
May 21st, 2012
9:35 pm
dc
May 21st, 2012
8:58 pm
“love how folks say conservatives are the ones who are dirty. what a crock. the worst, most crooked cities in america are and have been democrat strongholds for years.”
Until recently, the Democrats also dominated Georgia Politics for a very long time, controlling government at the local and state levels in nearly every corner of the state with few exceptions for over 140 years.
Make no mistake, when the Democrats controlled and dominated virtually every aspect of Georgia Politics, they were decisively corrupt.
But with the recent rapidly deteriorating ethical record of the GOP-dominated Georgia Legislature, Georgia Republicans are in no position to throw stones when it comes to ethics and corruption in government.
In fact, it is because of the ongoing ethical mishaps of the Republican-dominated state government and suburban governments in outlying counties (most notably in Cobb and, ESPECIALLY, Gwinnett) along with the blatant corruption and mismanagement of the Democrat-dominated muncipal governments in the City of Atlanta, DeKalb, Fulton and Clayton counties that the upcoming T-SPLOST referendum is increasingly likely to be defeated in a landslide.
How can people have confidence in their government to solve major problems if they can’t even trust those same governments to do something as simple and basic as NOT STEALING THE MONEY that the taxpayers have given them?
Eli
May 21st, 2012
9:51 pm
First, the measly 1% sales tax paid in Fulton and Dekalb is insufficient for any kind of pricing reduction. As it stands MARTA is the largest public transit system in the US not to receive government funding for operational expenses. Any failure on the part of MARTA is a failure on behalf of a private company, not the government.
A state/region wide sales tax may be marginally sufficient to break ground on a rail system going further into the suburbs, but so long as people have the idea that it will be MARTA this issue is DOA. Even though MARTA is a light-rail system, the conservatives of the north metro area do not know it.
The state has totally bungled this ballot initiative. It was an opportunity to have the people raise their own taxes so the legislature will not have to (and since this referendum looks likely to fail they will be faced with new challenges).
So, Atlanta will continue to have serious transportation problems. The legislature does not have the spine do raise taxes on its own, GOP voters do not want any kind of rail system (and probably because such projects are favored by the Obama admin), the referendum will likely fail, and MARTA (a failing private entity) is despised by the right-wing (aka Georgia GOP).
I have a secret to tell you People: doing nothing solves nothing. We have nearly 6 million people in the Metro area…and probably only enough infrastructure to support 4 million people. That is one of the many reasons Atlanta is a hub rather than a destination.
Ol' Timer
May 21st, 2012
9:55 pm
There’s nothing worse than aggressive stupidity. Do nothing and watch the commute time increase as you sit there burning $4.00 a gallon gas.
A bunch of Einstein’s one and all.
Joe_Harris
May 21st, 2012
10:07 pm
People are opposing the plan left and right but what are the other solutions? What will do if this plan is not passed? Continue to sit in traffic, continue to visit other cities and see how great their transportation system is compared to ours. C’mon! We gotta do something!
Cutty
May 21st, 2012
10:12 pm
Eli- What are you talking about? 1) MARTA is a quasi-governmental agency created by the Georgia Legislature. 2) MARTA is 100% a heavy-rail system.
MARTA’s FY 2012 operating budget was over $410M. Every cent obtained either by the penny sales tax or fares. And you still think that penny isn’t all that much? You even say that MARTA is both a public and private corporation in your post.
KellyW
May 21st, 2012
10:15 pm
I agree with you Joe. This plan may not solve all the answers but they definitely solve a good bit of them. Besides with a lot of the projects that are being completed they have double benefits. I, like many people in GA, don’t live in the same county as they work. Therefore getting this referendum passed will solve the issue that I have in my home county as well as the issues I have in my commuting counties.
Ready2Drive
May 21st, 2012
10:21 pm
So I guess the options are to either pass the referendum and increase taxes or spend more money on gas and maintenance on my car. Because the latter has definitely been increasing year after year. I just hope we can move in the right direction and do something. I’m against an increase in taxes as much as the next person but when taxes are used to make my life easier then I can go with it.
Restless in Georgia
May 21st, 2012
10:22 pm
@Ready2Drive, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
The Ghost of Edward R. Murrow
May 21st, 2012
10:23 pm
Hmmm…I think this poll was “fixed” by the ad departments of the AJC and other media…must be a slow month for the ad departments….they need more shekels, thus, create the need among the bond lawyers, the politicians, the construction industry lobbyists, and the Ga Dept of Industry Trade and Tourism…for more spending!
Get out the vote – do anything to get a YES vote….except call it what it truly is….a TAX.
SabrinaClarke
May 21st, 2012
10:25 pm
With all the naysayers saying no I wonder what their other option is. Clearly we need something major done. The small attempts at relieving traffic that occurred last week by allowing drivers to use emergency lanes wasn’t enough. It’s clear that we’re going to have to do something major to see results.
MatthewThomas103
May 21st, 2012
10:29 pm
I moved from a state where the transportation infrastructure made your life easier. As a current resident of GA I wouldn’t dare rely on public transportation for all my needs. It amazes my how advanced a city of Atlanta is but yet it is still clearly behind. We gotta do something to make the city more appealing.
BrittanyUnderwwod82
May 21st, 2012
10:31 pm
@Matthew I agree with you. As a former resident of NY, the transportation here in GA doesn’t even compare to other cities. I understand the importance of better transportation and I will definitely be saying yes.
ErinRogers
May 21st, 2012
10:33 pm
I stay outside the Atlanta area, in Rockdale, and I will definitely be voting yes on this. As a commuter who has to drive into the city day after day, I can already see how this will benefit me.
hiram
May 21st, 2012
10:40 pm
Joe_Harris
May 21st, 2012
10:07 pm
“Continue to sit in traffic, continue to visit other cities and see how great their transportation system is compared to ours. C’mon! We gotta do something!”
The issue is not the need. Everyone agrees on the need. The issue is the lack of trust in our elected officials, and the fear that they are more focused on lining their pockets than accomplishing the objective, and it’s not based on conjecture. Their resistance to transparency is a red flag to reasonable people.
td
May 21st, 2012
10:41 pm
Matthew and Brittany,
No one is begging you two to stay in Atlanta. We promise not to miss you if you decide to leave and if you can talk a few more to go with you then the traffic will get a little better.
Look before I leap...
May 21st, 2012
10:46 pm
GA already pays the lowest motor fuel tax rate in the country (7.5c/g).
We could double that and still be in the bottom 33% in the US.
Doubling the fuel tax provides for an additional $900M/year.
Over the projected life of TSPLOST, that equates to more than $9B which is more than TSPLOST would bring in.
Why not let the folks who would directly benefit from the projects pay for them with a greater fuel tax?
LeRoy
May 21st, 2012
10:48 pm
TSPLOST is based on an outdated, outmoded model of a central city where the jobs are with outlying bedroom communities. This no longer reflects the reality or desired reality in metro Atlanta. None of us in the surburban counties shoudl support TSPLOST as its a huge amount of money that won’t really improve our traffic problems.
The folks that picked the projects might have built more support for TSPLOST if they had actually used improving traffic as the key criteria for project selection.
I will be voting NO and encouraging my neighbors to do the same thing.
L Flux
May 21st, 2012
11:11 pm
Build roads with money from people who drive, not from people who shop. This penny represents a huge increase in transportation spending that will fund big expensive projects that will do very little to solve Atlanta’s traffic problems. We need to maintain what we’ve got and let traffic get bad enough that people move closer to work (or work closer to home) so they don’t waste their lives and gasoline in traffic. Increase the gas tax and leave the sales tax alone. And stop borrowing money to build roads.
If more people live in Fulton and Dekalb where the measure has favor and the surrounding counties are basically split, it will still pass. There are still enough undecided voters that this could go either way, but I wouldn’t bet against it.
hiram
May 21st, 2012
11:16 pm
This is all a thinking person needs to know to decide.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/audit-finds-gdot-financial-mismanagement/nK6hh/
td
May 21st, 2012
11:29 pm
Look before I leap…
May 21st, 2012
10:46 pm
Population: 9,815,210
2012 revenue: $18,162,513,870
How much more money do we need to spend in Georgia?
junbug
May 21st, 2012
11:31 pm
If we had a newspaper who would tell the voters the truth about this T-SPLOST it would not stand a chance.
Tell them the counties gets 25% of the tax to use as they desire. I wonder how much of our property tax money they paid lobbist to get that clause into the bill?
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
May 21st, 2012
11:42 pm
Not only is it the lack of a clear and coherent message that is doing in a T-SPLOST referendum which was at best a 50-50 proposition anyways to begin with.
The failure of the T-SPLOST to gain any traction with Metro Atlantans both Inside and, especially, Outside-The-Perimeter has also been as a result of incompetent, unethical and even at times outright corrupt leadership in both state and local governments around the designated 10-county Atlanta Region.
At the same time that the regional powers-that-be are tepidly pushing this flawed T-SPLOST referendum, the Georgia Legislature is dealing with the escalating fallout from a slate of recent ethics scandals as well as the Legislature’s refusal to enact meaningful ethics reform.
In addition to a very well-organized ultra-strong anti-tax and anti-transit sentiment in Fayette, Cherokee and Henry counties, also having an increasingly negative effect on public support for the T-SPLOST is the continued hangover from the incredibly flawed startup of the I-85 HOT Lanes and the fallout from a slate of recent scandals and missteps by the county Board of Commissioners in heavily-populated suburban Gwinnett (garbage scandal, stadium scandals, shady land deals, endictments of county commissioners, etc), repeated missteps and extremely poor political leadership on transportation and most every other political issue by increasingly unpopular embattled County Commission Chairman Tim Lee in Cobb County, some very expensive unethical missteps by the county government in DeKalb, continuing fierce internal division and political friction revolving around the desire of the affluent North end of the county to split away from the rest of the dysfunctional county and its government in Fulton.
Not to mention continuing ethical concerns in the City of Atlanta and Clayton County, who discontinued their local bus service (C-Tran) not long ago because they did not want to fund and operate the service themselves, but instead wanted a transit-averse state government to do.
The T-SPLOST referendum does not exist in a vacuum. The culmulative effects of these repeated government scandals and missteps has on the public mood towards government on the whole is continuing to have a direct negative effect on the T-SPLOST, which is basically government asking voters to let them have more of their hard-earned money.
If the voters don’t particularly like or trust their government officials to do right by them with their hard-earned money, then they will not give it to a government that they don’t like or trust to spend as they see fit, which is much of what why we are seeing this T-SPLOST campaign fail to gain traction with the public, probably even much moreso than the messaging of the campaign
double
May 22nd, 2012
12:23 am
Matthew & Britney move up to Gilmer county.Good apple country.But does have one rotten apple.No traffic jams,slow pace,mostly good people.
David
May 22nd, 2012
1:48 am
The Chamber of Commerce is for this…..their goal is to help us improve the number one complaint folks have about Atlanta….and get companies to come here!
This will help your city and add value to your homes.
I am a yes
Look before I leap...
May 22nd, 2012
2:04 am
@td
I know the numbers what is the point of your post?
Look before I leap...
May 22nd, 2012
2:09 am
@David
TSPLOST as it stand now will not fix the traffic issues here that are anti-corporate growth.
It will slightly alleviate the the commutes of some people who have chosen to live in the bedroom communities of Atlanta while making EVERYONE pay for it.
That is pure horsesh*t to my way of thinking.
Up the damned gas tax and those who drive, pay.
Quite simple.
Ellis
May 22nd, 2012
3:53 am
I lost trust in GDOT and the powers that be when they squandered an insane amount of money on the HOT lanes that actually made traffic worse for most commuters. I won’t give them any more money for their “improvements.”
Ellis
May 22nd, 2012
4:10 am
It also doesn’t help that GDOT managed to make the “temporary” tax (toll) on GA400 into a permanent fixture. So, we are going to trust them with another temporary tax? I’m thinking I’ll pass.
GodHatesTrash, Superstar
May 22nd, 2012
5:52 am
The decaying sprawl that is the Atlanta SMSA would not have been possible without white flight. White flight was supported by the highway contractors and developers and cheap gasoline. Almost 50 years later, the ‘burbs cling to their Suburbans, their Tahoes, and their pick-em-up trucks and 3-hour-a-day commutes.
Good luck with that for another 50 years, all you Joe the Plumber-types out there outside 286…
LeRoy
May 22nd, 2012
6:39 am
Sounds like more than a little race hatred, bigotry and unfair attacks on people you don’t know. If this is the tone of TSPLOST, you should not expect much cooperation from the non urban counties.
Ga Values
May 22nd, 2012
6:43 am
Vote NO for GRAFT, CORRUPTION & MISMANAGEMENT.
hiram
May 22nd, 2012
7:12 am
David
May 22nd, 2012
1:48 am
“The Chamber of Commerce is for this…..their goal is to help us improve the number one complaint folks have about Atlanta….and get companies to come here!”
You apparently don’t know a lot about the Chamber of Commerce.
Old timer
May 22nd, 2012
7:15 am
I am not willing to give MARTA anymore money to manage. They do badly enough with what they have. Northern suburbs are getting to little for their portion of the money.
Edward Ruffin
May 22nd, 2012
7:19 am
Well, good news for a change, a new and additional tax may fail. Government at all levels is awash with money, if they would only spent it properly we would not be having this discussion.
Ga Values
May 22nd, 2012
7:21 am
Vote NO on WASTE, GRAFT, CORRUPTION & MISMANAGEMENT.
Can’t believe I left out WASTE…just look at the Beltline, payoff to Reed’s supporters just like the airport.
Chris
May 22nd, 2012
7:28 am
Maybe the voters are seeing through the multiple layers of horse hockey served by the chamber of commerce.
The TSPLOST will not improve anyone’s commute. It will improve Gov. Deal and Kasim Reed’s cronies bottom lines, however. Vote NO and send these clowns a message.
honested
May 22nd, 2012
7:50 am
As to the earlier comments about the chamber of commerce.
That their tentacles have been wrapped around this plan from the beginning and they are hawking it now is reason #1 to vote NO.
honested
May 22nd, 2012
7:52 am
Of course, should this disaster pass, it will have a second ‘gotcha’.
When the road and transit plans prove too expensive, nathan will just shift the funds to ruin the Savannah River for good!
At least the most dangerous and ambitious politicians tend to be the most transparent.
Double Zero Eight
May 22nd, 2012
7:58 am
This referendum is more suited for generating
revenue than easing traffic. The Metro Region
should be configured as any county in the Metro
Atlanta area, as defined by the U.S. Census Bureau.
It makes no sense that Rockdale County is inculded,
while Forsyth County is excluded. Forsyth borders
Fulton County, Rockdale County does not. A new
alignment should comprise the counties that represent
the over 5 million residents in what is statistically
considered Metro Atlanta.
I am not a fan of Marta, and only ride it to sporting events.
A new plan should be submitted that includes more rail
initiatives. I remember the DOT’s “Freeing the Freeways”
campaign of the early 1990’s. It did not work as most of you
know. Pouring more concrete for road building is not the
answer. Look no further than GA 400 and 316,
JW
May 22nd, 2012
8:13 am
for all those who vote no, your solution is…where is the pot of gold to pay for your free ride…
4Dees
May 22nd, 2012
8:21 am
To get the TRUE facts about the T-SPLOST (TIA), please go to http://www.traffictruth.net . This is just another boondoggle to take from the many taxpayers to make a few people very wealthy. The one thing that should concern every voter is regional government., i.e. the ARC (Atlanta Regional Commission). I feel these regional commissions are not constitutional, the people are for the most part political appointments, and they are not accountable to the voter. They are meant to eventually replace our local and county governments, and will then begin by ‘appointing’ regional mayors, thus leaving the voter out of the process all together. VOTE NO on July 31.
Ga Values
May 22nd, 2012
8:21 am
JW
May 22nd, 2012
8:13 am
The solution is not to make a pot of gold for the politicians like the recently bid airport contracts.
jd
May 22nd, 2012
8:28 am
There is nothing “conservative” about wasting time and money sitting in traffic, paying for expensive gas, and subsidizing others who would rather drive their Escalades than create efficient transportation systems… And, all transportation systems are subsidized — so don’t even go there
4Dees
May 22nd, 2012
8:29 am
The GDOT is a mess……………….mismanaged, full of crony appointments, etc. Until the GDOT is completely overhauled from stem to stern, then they should not be trusted on anything……..this also includes all of the chambers of commerce who are fully behind the TIA. People DO NOT come to Atlanta for our rail system, but rather, they do come here for our great airport and our suburbs. Adding more taxes will keep businesses away from GA.
MARTA Rida
May 22nd, 2012
8:32 am
Have we not learned that we cannot build more lanes to ease congestion. Expand transit ITP and OTP. The interstate system was not built in a decade, this is step 1 of many to solve our transportation issues. As for a suburb-to-suburb rail line, it will take time. The next round already has this line planned, that’s why phase 1 of the NW line is included in TIA 1. I ride MARTA everyday, so if this does not pass it will not effect me, except I will never travel to Cobb or Gwinnett counties. Hope the suburbs choke on their own congestion and their home prices fall even more.
4Dees
May 22nd, 2012
8:33 am
jd……………..BART (San Francisco’s rail system) is the only profitable one in our country. Atlanta’s density makes it impossible for rail to every work here as it is set up now. Less than 5% of the population uses MARTA, and yet they want the other 95% to pay for more rail that will not be used. Why would I want to pay 2 cents on every dollar I spend to subsidize 5% of the population?
4Dees
May 22nd, 2012
8:35 am
MARTA Rida…………………………….There are better solutions than those presented in the “wish list” known as the TIA (T-SPLOST). The TIA needs to die, and then go back to the drawing board and come up with a plan that will work for Atlanta. It is possible.
gordon
May 22nd, 2012
8:50 am
You people crying about corruption have not been close to this process. There is, in the law, a Citizen’s Oversight Panel that will review expenditures, and track project progress. There are other checks and balances in the program to hedge against things like cost inflation.
It’s eay to sit back and make cracks about corruption and lining contractors pockets. In real life, that is not true. However, it’s easier to say that than to actually come up with something to help this region move forward.
Aside from businesses being attracted to the region due to better infrastructure, there is a direct jobs benefit of the program – something like 40,000 per year, for 10 years. If you haven’t noticed, we are in a free fall recession. Georgia can reverse the trend, put people to work, and have the other benefits that come with people working (like lower overall tax rates and increasing property values).
The average cost is something like $50/person. Don’t forget – businesses and tourists pay sales tax too. Together, they will pay more than residents.
I’m sorry folks. I am as conservative as it gets, but this is a must-pass referendum, for a whole lot of reasons.
Making up conspiracy theories isn’t going to move this region forward.
MiltonMan
May 22nd, 2012
8:53 am
“@Matthew I agree with you. As a former resident of NY, the transportation here in GA doesn’t even compare to other cities. I understand the importance of better transportation and I will definitely be saying yes.”
Never gets old hearing from these expatriates from the northern states who “yearn” for how wonderful & terrific that their previous areas were yet still move here in droves.
BW
May 22nd, 2012
8:54 am
Let’s see….there are some recurrent themes in these posts….fear of waste, fraud, etc, lack of trust of the legislators that we the people vote in, and distrust of public-private collaboration…folks nothing will ever get done under these circumstances. You can’t vote for the most conservative person in your district and then not trust them to execute the task of governance…someone is going to have to explain that disconnect for me. I absolutely agree that this list is wholly inadequate to accommodate all the traffic issues in the region. Given that the legislators fear bringing anything truly comprehensive and therefore progressive in front of the voters, what can we really expect but this highly flawed solution? Do you even trust them to come with a non-partisan plan that will remedy the issues in each county regardless of the final price tag? Look given the provinical nature of politics here in Georgia and throughout the South, this is probably the best any Republican legislature is going to come up with so I have to vote YES to at least get the ball rolling. Perhaps if we hold them accountable for coming up with an adequate list and executing it in a fudiciary matter rather than worrying about being taxed too much or pitting ITP vs OTP, we would actually get something worth signing onto in the near future.
gordon
May 22nd, 2012
8:56 am
4Dees – you are confusing yourself. ARC is not part of the governance for this tax. Two state agenices are responsibel for building the projects – GRTA and GDOT. MARTA is not even given money directly.
Since GA has the nation’s lowest gas tax, you pay things like car tag fees and state income tax to fund road maintenance. Roads are not profitable, not even close. But, you accept the huge taxes imposed to maintain the current system, then complain about transit. That argument is a non-starter.
I paid $900 to register 3 cars after moving here from Florida. Those same cars cost me $100 a year there. And, my cars are all 6-7 years old. I can’t even think of buying a new car here with the current tax structure.
This TSPLOST tax will cost my family less than my stupid car tag fees annually, and will do a heck of a lot more for the region.
Vote YES.
Ga Values
May 22nd, 2012
8:58 am
gordon
May 22nd, 2012
8:50 am
Hadn’t been followling the airport bid process where all of Reed’s Multimillionair cronies got contracts have you. How about the water department? How about our Governor being voted 1 of the most corrupt politicians in Washington? How about MARTA? How about GDOT?
BW
May 22nd, 2012
9:02 am
GA Values
How do these people continue to get elected? Do the voters not care? Is it simply enough to scream liberal or scream conservative and get in office?
Ga Values
May 22nd, 2012
9:02 am
BW
May 22nd, 2012
8:54 am
Did not vote for Reed, did not vote for Deal voted for the honest woman in both cases. Did you vote?
BW
May 22nd, 2012
9:05 am
Sure….I live in Gwinnett so Reed wasn’t on the ballot in my district…actually left the governor box blank….I’m having trouble understanding how we elect people who are completely incompetent to govern.
TBone
May 22nd, 2012
9:09 am
If all the carpetbaggers would return from whence they came there would be not problem here with transportation. This whole SPLOST thing needs to be looked at objectively. It appears to be nothing more than an endless progression of additonal slush funds for local jurisdictions to depend on instead of getting their fiscal houses in order.
BW
May 22nd, 2012
9:11 am
TBone
Wow….clearly that’s not going to happen. They are here to stay….there is still a problem…too little infrastructure for too many people. I fail to see how getting one’s fiscal house in order is the sole remedy to that basic problem.
Ga Values
May 22nd, 2012
9:17 am
BW
May 22nd, 2012
9:05 am
..
I was born here & have lived here most of my life. To me Reed looks like a bigger crook than Bill Cambell, Deal was my personal lawyer at 1 time so I know how corrupt he is. I was a Republican before being a Republican was cool. The problem in Georgia is that our politicians are not Republican or Democrat. They are GREEN as in the colar of lobbyist money.
Don
May 22nd, 2012
9:27 am
The project list is lousy, but, if it fails and Atlanta dies. Our politicians are too chicken to tackle the problem. Have been for a decade and it’s not going to change any time soon.
There is, and will be, no “Plan B.”
Roadkill
May 22nd, 2012
9:28 am
My opposition to TSPLOST is based on my firm belief that such a tax is not allowed by the Georgia Constitution. Legislative leaders once acknowledged that fact, as the initial plan contained a constitutional amendment permitting the tax. For their own reasons, they abandoned the correct path and gambled on the current plan of a “regional” tax imposed on unwilling residents of counties which voted against the tax. No reading of the constitution permits such a tax. What a mess we would be in if the tax were implemented and then struck down by the courts! My vote will be NO.
A dad
May 22nd, 2012
9:29 am
As a GA400 commuter, I’m already paying above and beyond what I was supposed to, but I’m not surpirsed. Give politicians a source of income and they never let go of it. I might be fore the SPLOST if, and that’a big “IF”, there was a logical plan on the table ahead of time, plans were in place to eliminate all the bloat and mismanagement in GDOT and local gov’t, and it was going to be spent equally on all the contributing counties. I’m sick and tired of subsidizing South Fulton’s mismanagement, so I’ll be voting no.
D man
May 22nd, 2012
9:32 am
NO NEW TAXES, we need to audit all of our government branches with private independent companies to see where the TRILLIONS of dollars they are collecting from us are going everyday. I imagine an independent audit would uncover a lot of PORK SPENDING… Since they will never allow such an audit, vote all of the spenders out of office… We need new leaders with brains and courage enough to stand up to the lobbyists and repeat term politicians.
Chris
May 22nd, 2012
9:50 am
Folks, the line about “there is no plan B” is an outright lie. If the vote fails, they can bring it right back for another vote in 2 years.
And Jim Galloway could you please ask the Chamber of Commerce why they are spending 8 million dollars to indoctrinate the voters on this issue? If they really cared about MARTA they could just give that money directly to address budget gaps.
All the chamber really cares about are lining their own pockets with taxpayer booty. Wake up people: there is no more “left vs. right”. It’s the individual vs. the corporate state, and the corporate state is winning.
Double Zero Eight
May 22nd, 2012
9:58 am
Why is it our politicians have the guts to approve
a new sports dome, but lack the fortitude to pass
an additional gasoline tax for improving traffic in
Metro Atlanta?
jebbery
May 22nd, 2012
10:04 am
1) the project list sucks 2) atlanta will not “collapse” if we don’t vote for another SPLOST 3) voting yes on this is a forever vote – you’re kidding yourself if you think this sunsets in 10 years 4) even if you build more rail, it will still be extremely underutilized bc MARTA sucks 5) I would rather sit in traffic than pay another penny on every dollar to local government officials who are COMPLETELY inept when it comes to fiscal managment.
I live in Dekalb, I vote NO.
Tarzan
May 22nd, 2012
10:07 am
Hey A dad. There are 157 regional projects already determined that are the only projects that can be built with the TSPLOST tax. All metro Atlanta counties get between 90-110 percent of their tax receipts reinvested in their counties. 15% of all funds go directly back to each city and unincorporated area based on a formula of population and road miles. And everyone travels from one county to another to work or shop so even those investments in a neighboring county will benefit you. The census said 47.5 of Fulton workers travel to another county to work while Rockdale has over an 80% commute rate. Unless you walk everywhere you will see a benefit from the TSPLOST. This isn’t a Ga400 or HOT lane program. All activities are set in law with a citizens overview committee following every regional projects progress. Sounds like you would support the TSPLOST option over leaving things at GDOT. You might want to look a little deeper into how this TSPLOST works and get all the facts before you decide how to vote. Since you said you might “IF” certain things would happen you may be surprised to see just how much will happen if you vote yes. If you vote no you know what will happen too.
MARTA Rida
May 22nd, 2012
10:54 am
This is not a forever tax, it is written that the voters must approve another tax, so please read the facts. MARTA has nothing to do with the projects since GRTA, a republican nominated board, will be handling all the transit money. Hope all y’all voting NO have fun sitting in traffic as your suburban homes lose value, health suffers from sitting in a car for hours everyday, and family life collapses.
Monroe
May 22nd, 2012
11:36 am
Vote NO on this corrupt sales tax!! A bunch of connected insiders will get rich while taxpayers get hosed! Vote NO!!!!!!
honested
May 22nd, 2012
12:01 pm
Until the motor fuel tax reflects reality, a NO vote is in order.
Once the motor fuel tax more closely represents adequate revenue for maintenance and repair on existing roads as well as construction costs for new roads, then we can revisit REAL Transportation Infrastructure Improvements.
There is more to life than driving.
MARTA Rida
May 22nd, 2012
12:05 pm
Politicians don’t have the backbone to raise the motor fuel tax to where it can cover road maintenance, let alone new roads.
jebbery
May 22nd, 2012
3:51 pm
“Hope all y’all voting NO have fun sitting in traffic as your suburban homes lose value, health suffers from sitting in a car for hours everyday, and family life collapses.”
What a joke comment this is dude…I live intown, rarely use the interstate or MARTA. My commute is 30 minutes round trip….
When was the last time in recent memory that you recall a SPLOST being voted down when it was up for renewal?
If you think that a tax increase is going to solve this region’s traffic woes, you are sadly misinformed and drinking the ATL Kool Aid.
jebbery
May 22nd, 2012
3:53 pm
@Tarzan YES! WE KNOW! If we vote NO, a hole will open up in the ground and swallow the city of Atlanta…then zombies will eat us while we’re sitting in our cars in 100 degree heat with no A/C. OMG!!!!
Going Right
May 22nd, 2012
4:16 pm
BELTLINE. That’s all you need to know to give you the answer why so many OTP will vote NO on this fiasco. Who will profit from the Beltline? Who will it serve? How is it going to relieve traffic? Look at where this epitome of idiocy is scheduled to run: 30-35% in Caucasian areas and 65-70% in the African neighborhoods. Racial? Not on you life. It may help alleviate those that “Walk While Black in a Gated Community” however.
Greg
May 22nd, 2012
5:10 pm
A good chunk of this money is going to the beltway to help already filthy rich developers due to payoffs they gave the repubs. They lied about Ga. 400, the stole our high way and made it into a Mercedes land for the rich. Unless they get rail going to all the suburbs this city is doomed to be a parking lot. Notice the nice new tall lights at all the access ramps, they are there to register when you get on and off the highway for new taxes coming supposedly due to the loss of gas taxes for electric cars, these people are dirty rotten stinking liars.
Greg
May 22nd, 2012
5:14 pm
Tarzan is a lobbyist for the rats that want this tax, and every city I have been to with a good rail system that is safe and clean has the trains full every day.