Southern Baptist leader: Jesus wouldn’t like health care panels
On C-SPAN this morning, Richard Land, president of that arm of the Southern Baptist Convention that concerns itself with national issue, was asked by a caller to justify his opposition to President Barack Obama’s health care overhaul.
Said Land:
”I don’t think Jesus would support the rationing panels that are in place for Obamacare. I’m getting letters every day – every day – from people who are already being rationed care since the new head of Medicare came in. They’re being told if they have terminal conditions, they can’t get treatment for other diseases.
“Even Mr. Obama said that perhaps it wasn’t the best allocation of resources to give his grandmother, who was dying of cancer, a hip replacement. So I guess she can hobble around in terrible pain with a bad hip while she was dying of cancer. I don’t think that’s very Christian, ma’am.”
The president’s grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, died of cancer at age 86 in 2008, two days before her grandson’s election victory. Following her diagnosis, she had a hip replaced. Months later, in a New York Times magazine article, Obama wondered out loud whether high-cost operations for the terminally ill could be justified as “sustainable” public policy:
”I don’t know how much that hip replacement cost. I would have paid out of pocket for that hip replacement just because she’s my grandmother. Whether, sort of in the aggregate, society making those decisions to give my grandmother, or everybody else’s aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when they’re terminally ill is a sustainable model, is a very difficult question. If somebody told me that my grandmother couldn’t have a hip replacement and she had to lie there in misery in the waning days of her life — that would be pretty upsetting.”
The problem, the president continued, is that not everyone can pay for a hip replacement out-of-pocket:
“… So that’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues. But that’s also a huge driver of cost, right?
“I mean, the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here.”
***
On the same topic, Attorney General Sam Olens said Monday that Republicans need to have their ducks in a row if and when the U.S. Supreme Court issues its ruling on the new health care law. From the Augusta Chronicle:
“Let’s assume we win the case. The Republican Party better have a bill that’s immediately filed to improve health care in this country or it will be detrimental in the November election.”
***
The Athens Banner-Herald reports that prominent Democrats, including Mayor Nancy Denson, are funneling money to Regina Quick, who’s mounting a GOP primary challenge to state Rep. Doug McKillip.
McKillip, a former Democrat, sponsored this year’s aggressive anti-abortion bill, which shortens the period during which a woman can seek to end her pregnancy. From the newspaper:
Denson gave Quick $500 on Feb. 22, according a campaign finance disclosure filed last week with the Georgia Government Transparency and Campaign Finance Commission….
McKillip angered Democrats by switching parties in 2010 and other elected officials by pushing a controversial Athens-Clarke Commission redistricting plan.Republican former mayor and Athens Area Chamber of Commerce President Doc Eldridge, who has publicly feuded with McKillip over redistricting, and Democratic former state Sen. Doug Haines also contributed to Quick’s campaign, as did a number of her fellow lawyers and some Republican activists.
During the same C-SPAN session, Land also suggested that likely GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney could name U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio as his running mate, as a means of “pivoting” on the illegal immigration issue — and proposing a comprehensive reform package.
***
The New York Times this morning dissects the false Internet rumor about an indictment that, 10 days ago, sent South Carolina’s governor scrambling:
It took only two minutes. An unfounded report on a little-known blog claiming that Gov. Nikki R. Haley was about to be indicted rocketed from South Carolina political circles into national circulation, along the way becoming the latest lesson in the perils of an instantaneous news culture.
The item’s rapid journey from hearsay to mainstream journalism, largely via Twitter, forced Ms. Haley to rush to defend herself against a false rumor. And it left news organizations facing a new round of questions about accountability and standards in the fast and loose “retweets do not imply endorsement” ethos of today’s political journalism.
***
The AJC’s Politifact Georgia this morning takes a look at state Agriculture Commissioner Gary Black’s defense of “lean, finely textured beef” – pejoratively known as “pink slime.”
- By Jim Galloway, Political Insider
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172 comments Add your comment
td
April 10th, 2012
2:06 pm
Aaron Burr V Mexico
April 10th, 2012
1:51 pm
Thank you for admitting that you are a socialist philosophically.
“Welfare queens are only a legend in your own mind”
Now that statement just proves that you are young (probably from a upper middle class family) and have very little life experience.
Becky
April 10th, 2012
2:07 pm
Santorum suspends his campaign, did he run out of cash? Did Romney turn him down for VP?
Aaron Burr V Mexico
April 10th, 2012
2:09 pm
@Aquagirl – Yes. I agree. Hopefully the something that gives is:
1) Single Payer, thus reducing health costs to levels seen in other countries.
2) The delusion moderates have that the Republican Party are human beings instead of demon agents bent on creating human suffering to allow such a system to be created.
I am not holding my breath for either, which leaves
3) Social Darwinism where Timmy the 4 year old is told he can’t get his appendix out because the government should only be used for the military and tax breaks for the rich.
Becky
April 10th, 2012
2:09 pm
td-you just hate everyone that is not exactly like you. Old, white, racist, bigoted, etc. etc. Baptist, apparently can’t hold a job………
honested
April 10th, 2012
2:11 pm
centrist,
Thanks!
What an odd day, we agree!
However the ‘it has already been taxed’ shibboleth is one of the greatest lies in conservative theology.
A more accurate depiction is ‘taxes have already been avoided once. If I really have to pay, it should be at a lower rate because, dagnabit I’m SPECIAL!’.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
April 10th, 2012
2:11 pm
@TD – I am whatever conservatives are most NOT, so technically I’m a commie mutant mormon anarchist traitor socialist marxist maoist jingoist ninja turtle but that will change as needed to bring the most fear and agitation to contards as possible.
And you’re quite clearly a Gen X’r. Or a boomer. The most selfish generation.
I am, in fact, neither Boomer, Gen Xr or Millenial but I will be quite pleased when the millenials say, “You know what…we should agree with the Republicans and not fund their retirement….no social security for anyone who donated or voted Republican.”
td
April 10th, 2012
2:13 pm
Centrist
April 10th, 2012
2:06 pm
The problem you are talking about could be corrected with legislation and making corporations pay salaries to employees instead of stock options or counting the stock options as earned income. The Buffet rule hurts small businesses more then it hurts the rich. 80% of individual tax returns of over $1 million are from small businesses filing as an individual. Do not throw out the job producing machine of the country just in the name of “fairness”.
Centrist
April 10th, 2012
2:13 pm
Santorum has suspended his campaign instead of still being in the race and losing his home state. This guy is finished in politics – he waited waaay too long to drop out. He will not have a job to further his political ambitions, was a soundly defeated incumbent Senator, and will have many more qualified Governors and Congresspeople vying for future nominations.
td
April 10th, 2012
2:16 pm
Becky
April 10th, 2012
2:09 pm
You too will grow up one day honey. Hang in their and you will see the light.
honested
April 10th, 2012
2:17 pm
I guess Sans-scrotum now qualifies for a tidy Sunday morning spot on faux.
Becky
April 10th, 2012
2:17 pm
Bye bye Rick-go home and take care of your dysfuntional family and for pete’s sake put a condom on or let your wife take birth control. I don’t want to pay more for your next child born to an old lady.
Aquagirl
April 10th, 2012
2:18 pm
Single Payer, thus reducing health costs to levels seen in other countries.
What? You want government healthcare for younger people, not just the elderly who use far more resources for end of life care? OMG SOSHALISM. Timmy’s mom can remove that appendix with her pedicure kit. Kids are tough.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
April 10th, 2012
2:18 pm
@TD1 – You too will die one day son. And I REALLY wish I could be there at your tribunal. “But I told them to be self reliant!” will be hilarious to the angels called as witness while the dead children point their fingers.
I know. I know. “Name one dead child.”
No. Actually. You made your bed. If you’re so self confident in your ideology, research it yourself.
Becky
April 10th, 2012
2:18 pm
td-I am probably older than you, a whole lot wiser and actually know how to spell.
there their they’re learn the difference. You just continue to embarass yourself.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
April 10th, 2012
2:20 pm
@Aquagirl – I think there are many solutions, all of them are better than the one we have now.
I admit I like the more socialist the better mainly because it pisses off conservatives, in fact the UK makes them go apoplectic the most so that’s second on my list after just rounded up rich people and using their organs to keep welfare queens alive.
Centrist
April 10th, 2012
2:20 pm
Only income above a million would be taxed at higher rates under the Buffet rule. Legislation could shield small businesses, or they could incorporate/ sub chapter S with taxable salaries well below the $1 million threshold if avoiding paying higher rates above that is their goal. Small business taxation is a straw dog argument to shield those making millions/billions per year.
Becky
April 10th, 2012
2:20 pm
Right on time, Nikki Haley of SC says there is no War on Women. Must be hoping to get the VP nod, too bad she is the wrong color.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
April 10th, 2012
2:22 pm
@Becky – Maybe she’s not a woman? You know some of those operations are quite skilled these days…
I mean no disrespect to LGBT folks, but there is, after all, nothing more hypocritical than a closeted Republican….
td
April 10th, 2012
2:23 pm
Aaron Burr V Mexico
April 10th, 2012
2:11 pm
I am sure you are from this new narcissistic college grads entering the work force. You all think you should be making $100,000 a year right out of college, have a vacation every six weeks and be a manager within a year. If you do not get it then you go home and whine to your mother that my boss is making me work on a weekend or late on a Friday night and it is just so unfair. You think you know more then you boss and get angry when your boss tells you that you are wrong and to do the work the way they want you to do it. Yes, I know who you are and have fired several of your type over the past few years.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
April 10th, 2012
2:24 pm
@TD – Ah such a lovely power of deduction you have there TD.
Does that scare you more? Because if you want me to be then by all means, I’m 22 and a member of occupy.
Seriously. Which generation scares you more? That’s what I am.
Becky
April 10th, 2012
2:25 pm
td-the only thing you have ever fired is your charcoal grill. Give it a break.
then than those keep learning
td
April 10th, 2012
2:26 pm
Becky
April 10th, 2012
2:18 pm
td-I am probably older than you,
Then you must be African American because there are very few older white women that are as radical as you are.
honested
April 10th, 2012
2:27 pm
td,
Yet another talk radio inspired lie parroted by somebody who apparently doesn’t know better.
The ‘Buffett Rule’ does not hurt ’small business’ more, since the pass-through income for ‘S’ Corps has already been drastically reduced through expenses before it ever hits the small business owner as ‘income’.
It sounds good on the radio but it is still crap.
Big Hat
April 10th, 2012
2:29 pm
There’s no war on women, just sluts and prostitutes.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
April 10th, 2012
2:29 pm
@TD – Re: Becky.
Oh there are plenty of younger white women who make me look positively ‘moderate’. You see, when you try to tell them how their organs should be run it rather upsets them.
You know, my fellow 22 year olds. That you’ve fired lots of.
From your mother’s basement.
Becky
April 10th, 2012
2:30 pm
td-you could not be more wrong. Remember- we women remember and we vote and will vote your sorry cons out of office in November and re-elect President Obama. Better learn how to deal with it or start packing bub.
gm
April 10th, 2012
2:32 pm
Good old conservative Southern Bapt, I guess Jessus would love Newt who cheated on 2 wifes and had 30 page ethic violations yet these people supported him, this is why younger generations dont take relgion leaders serious any more .
td
April 10th, 2012
2:32 pm
honested
April 10th, 2012
2:27 pm
I own two companies and neither is a Sub chapter S. I do not hold any inventory or have to have a great deal of capital outlay to depreciate so it is better to have each company a LLC and file taxes as an individual.
Becky
April 10th, 2012
2:34 pm
td-your “companies” must never turn a profit with you on here 24 hours a day. As you have no inventory, not sure but you must be a lawn mower specialist, you know the person cutting my grass?
td
April 10th, 2012
2:35 pm
Becky
April 10th, 2012
2:30 pm
Back on that fake war on women that Obama is attempting to sell. Most smart women sees right through the bull and it will not effect their vote.
honested
April 10th, 2012
2:35 pm
td,
So unless your gross is HUGE the ‘Buffett Rule’ wouldn’t mean diddly to you.
Centrist
April 10th, 2012
2:36 pm
td – There are many incorrigible partisans, name callers, and outright nuts here (from end to end of the political spectrum, but mostly endemic liberals on an AJC website). Responding to their posts only encourages more of the same. Suggest you ignore them and debate/ agree with the few remaining thinking posters who use logic, facts, and reason instead of biased opinion and rudeness.
honested
April 10th, 2012
2:37 pm
Any ladies present?
It has been suggested there is no ‘War on Women’.
So just go back to the kitchen and do exactly what your hubby says…….
Wouldn’t want you to get confused and try to think for yourselves.
Aquagirl
April 10th, 2012
2:39 pm
I worked in a DFCS office many years ago and to see the hopelessness in the eyes of generational welfare recipient would make you stomach turn. This is pure evil. It literally drives the life out of good people and turns them into slaves of the government.
That’s right td, they want your braaaaaaaaaaaains.
Becky
April 10th, 2012
2:39 pm
And Centrist contines talking about himself. If we couldn’t bash td for his antiquated opinions this place would not be worth coming to on a daily basis now would it?
the fake war on women is going to bite the cons in the rear.
Shar
April 10th, 2012
2:44 pm
@Last Lawyer: This is indeed the crux of the medical crisis we are dealing with. With better than 80% of lifetime medical expenditures incurred in the last 18 months of life, we are spending vast resources where they can do the least good in terms of restoring health.
More public money is wasted on self-inflicted damage from substance abuse (including DUI) and unhealthy lifestyle habits such as obesity and smoking. In addition, we pay for the health care of those who do not pay into the system.
It makes for a very difficult policy conundrum. It will become increasingly difficult to persuade taxpayers that our money is being wisely spent on people who cannot or will not guard their own health but we are not socially capable of tolerating large numbers of languishing sick people, and allowing contagious diseases to remain untreated would be a national threat.
Republican hysteria about “death panels” aside, it seems to me that fiscal sanity starts with the individual. People who have knowingly ignored health issues in favor of self-indulgence (excessive drinkers, the obese, smokers, etc) should not qualify for full coverage for maladies stemming from those problems. Medical interventions for terminal patients should likewise not be fully covered; those who really feel that a hip replacement will be worth the cost should be asked to bear some of it. Those who have chosen not to buy insurance should receive treatment but have wages or benefits garnisheed and be required to buy insurance to guard the rest of us from having to pay their bills. Illegal immigrants needing health care should receive it only in their country of origin and only for a specific period of time, and be ineligible for any future care here.
While these may seem cruel, it is past time that individuals were required to take responsibility for their own health spending. Those who pay insurance currently pay for those who do not through cost-shifting, taxation and direct subsidy, as well as paying for their own care. This cannot continue.
honested
April 10th, 2012
2:49 pm
Shar,
Truth.
Or we could move to a civilized central payer system (like France or England) and immediately free up 40% of every dollar currently consumed by the for-profit ‘health care insurers’ and put those dollars to the purpose intended.
It is hard to blame the patients while the parasites are in place far in advance of the patients.
Bernie
April 10th, 2012
2:51 pm
Mullah Rick has finally realized that running for President is not as easy as he thought it would be. The message from the people of Pennsylvania was Rick “Get out or get Embarrassed” by the loss of your own home state. Getting out now allows him some crediability for a future run …again.
td
April 10th, 2012
2:53 pm
honested
April 10th, 2012
2:35 pm
td,
So unless your gross is HUGE the ‘Buffett Rule’ wouldn’t mean diddly to you.
Agree that I do not reach the threshold but hope to one day and do not want to be penalized.
td
April 10th, 2012
2:54 pm
Centrist
April 10th, 2012
2:36 pm
I know but I feel like it is fun some days making them look like fools.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
April 10th, 2012
2:56 pm
@TD – That’s right, the war on women is ‘fake’ when Scott the Idiot repeals Equal Pay for Women.
That’s not even about contraception or ‘religious freedom’ but just generic hatred for women.
No ‘war on women’ indeed.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
April 10th, 2012
2:57 pm
@Becky – Actually I just enjoy insulting Republicans. It would be worth it to me to insult them generically, but I do admit that insulting them by name is more fun.
Centrist
April 10th, 2012
2:57 pm
@ td – Famous (and accurate) quote from George Bernard Shaw: “I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.”
td
April 10th, 2012
2:58 pm
honested
April 10th, 2012
2:37 pm
Any ladies present?
It has been suggested there is no ‘War on Women’.
So just go back to the kitchen and do exactly what your hubby says…….
Wouldn’t want you to get confused and try to think for yourselves.
I am sure you run your household by telling your wife to shut up and get in the kitchen. There is not a family in this country that still has relationships like these and you know it.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
April 10th, 2012
2:58 pm
@Not Centrist – The very fact that you consider yourself ‘centrist’ or ‘thinking’ really proves how far gone down the Tea Hole you really are….
honested
April 10th, 2012
2:58 pm
td,
Somebody hit the gong.
You have identified the ‘holy grail’ of ‘conserrrrrrvative’ misunderstanding’
“I hope to one day and I don’t want to be penalized”.
Or, stated in another fashion, “Dem massa’s can afford it but dey shouldn’t be ‘penalized’ cause deys too important to pay for things”.
td
April 10th, 2012
3:00 pm
Centrist
April 10th, 2012
2:57 pm
LOL, so true. Sometimes the pig gets fat and sassy and has to be slapped around a little and put back in their place.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
April 10th, 2012
3:07 pm
@TD and Centrist – How was that ALEC free lunch you guys got a while ago?
So Not Centrist comes on here, and says he LIKES the Buffet rule and TD doesn’t and that makes Not Centrist MODERATE. Wow.
You know, I read about that in “Ender’s Game” and that book is nearly 40 years old now folks. The Locke/Demonsthenese thing you two have going on is rather pathetic.
Also rather ironic, from a literary perspective, that the two biggest current advocates for the rich are using ‘pigs’ in their anologies…you know…Some Pigs are More Equal Than Others.
The communists said they were defending the people.
The republicans say they’re defending the free market.
Its all the same mechanism to let the vast majority of people suffer. Red is the new/old Red.
Aaron Burr V Mexico
April 10th, 2012
3:11 pm
How about Total Dice (only it isn’t dice…replace it with the first swear word you think of) and Not Straw Man.
They fight. They fight. They fight and fight and fight.
Then they share and share, and share and share and share
The TD and Straw Man Shoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow!
Shar
April 10th, 2012
3:14 pm
@honested: A fair point, and I am among those who believe that a single-payer system would be far better than what we have. However, I am skeptical about that 40% figure – theoretical savings tend to be greatly overstated. Plus, the current level of spending would not be affected, and it really has to be. Shifting at least a part of the fiscal responsibility back to the patient for the kinds of care I mentioned would at least force a more rational approach to health care decisions than the situation referred to by Last Lawyer. And that situation is typical of late-in-life care.
@td: I think of myself as a moderate and I have never registered with a political party. I vote more often for Democrats or Independents than for Republicans, but not by a wide margin. However, the recent attacks by members of the Republican establishment on individual women and on issues that apply exclusively to women have truly made me feel targeted and threatened, as well as showing that Republican policy regards me, my sisters, my daughters and my friends as expendable and utterly unimportant. If you cannot understand that the spectacle of an all-male panel being called by the Republicans to solicit expert testimony on issues relating to women’s access to contraception is offensive, you are not thinking.
Mitch McConnell just claimed again that the Republicans are not waging a war on women and that the five female Republican senators would be “the first to agree.” That is not what they have publicly stated. Lisa Murkowski, speaking to an Alaskan Chamber of Commerce luncheon last weekend, said “It makes no sense to make this attack on women. If you don’t feel this is an attack, you need to go home and talk to your wife and your daughters.”
No, the war on women is not “fake”, despite the best efforts of the male Republican establishment to put words in their female colleagues’ mouths (and that effort is just another example of their chauvinism.) We care that Republicans have mandated invasive vaginal exams for women choosing abortion. We care that men are being handed the power to decide our access to contraception. We care that one party did everything they could to block equal wage legislation while cutting family social programs. We care that the Republican leadership and the nominees for President did not forcefully renounce the sexualized hate speech directed at a woman who disagreed with the male position by the party agent provacateur, Limbaugh.
Trying to tell us that it is “fake”, that we are wrong to feel threatened, is just more proof of Republican insensitivity and another attempt to marginalize us. Either learn to listen to women or accept that your party has and will continue to repel them.