A raw debate over abortion at the state Capitol
The House on Wednesday passed its first major anti-abortion legislation in several years, shrinking the time a woman has to seek the procedure. From my AJC colleague Christopher Quinn:
The legislation, House Bill 954, also would tighten medical exemptions for terminating pregnancies and require any abortion performed after 20 weeks of pregnancy be done in a way to bring the fetus out alive. The measure is commonly referred to as a “fetal pain” bill and says that a fetus can feel pain at 20 weeks, therefore the state has an interest in protecting it.
The language of the debate was more than emotional. On the GOP side, the central debate is over Georgia Right to Life’s refusal to recognize rape, incest and the life of the mother as exceptions in the abortion debate.
Unlike some national groups, GRTL recognizes only the life of the mother as an exception – and a strict interpretation at that.
In this instance, there was an advantage to being in radio. Audio allows a certain rawness that neither print nor video can capture. Below is the Wednesday report of Parker Wallace of Georgia Public Broadcasting. In the AJC photo below, state Rep. Sharon Cooper, R-Marietta, is pictured with Rep. Allen Peake, R-Macon. Audio used with permission:
- By Jim Galloway, Political Insider
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93 comments Add your comment
honested
March 1st, 2012
8:14 am
homeschooler,
I don’t care what a fetus looks like at 20 weeks and it wouldn’t matter if I did.
This insane rush to confer citizenship to any growing 2 cell mass (and make no mistake, that is the goal of the kooks that authored this abomination) is un-Constitutional and forces an illogical religious belief on Citizens who may not agree.
It is time for Georgians to bring a halt to this sort of nonsense under the Gold Dome, at least until the PRESSING issues are dealt with in a manner that puts the interest of Citizens first.
We are awash in the result of putting the monied special interests first, as in this stupid bill.
John K
March 1st, 2012
8:14 am
Obviously an election year with the GOP ramping up the insanity. This year the boogeyman is a woman having a say over her body.
homeschooler
March 1st, 2012
8:36 am
@ No Longer Republican…WHAT.EVER…. There are way to many government handouts and no one is starving in my county, I can assure you. Working for DFCS I walk through the poverty you mention DAILY and can assure you, the idea of poverty in this country is way off base. The last woman who called me and said she had nothing to feed her children had a 5lb bag of rice and 8 cans of vegetables and was 3 days away from getting her food stamps. A friend had just fed her children pizza from Dominos and when I asked what exactly she needed she said “I don’t have any meat.” AND???? guess I’m a bad citizen because I didn’t run out and get her some ground beef. Sorry, we are already giving her 700.00 a month to feed her 6 children plus WIC and school lunch and breakfast. I figured they could eat rice and beans for dinner for 2 nights. Frankly I am tired of hearing that abortion laws interfere with women’s rights. Women are not stupid they can a) choose to use birth control b) use the morning after pill c) choose to abort before their child is 20 weeks. d) choose not to have kids at all. e) choose to have 20 kids and support them or choose to have 20 kids and let the government support them. Life is full of choices. Democrats just encourage people to make bad ones.
@ Rural Georgian.. I agree. I think cases of severe fetal abnormalities should be considered a whole different issure. And I do stress severe. I’ve seen way to many Downs Syndrone children who have been loved and brought so much love to the world to consider that they should be aborted.
Tom
March 1st, 2012
8:40 am
BuT biRTh cONTroL is “a lICenSe tO Do THinGs iN tHe sEXUal rEalM ThaT
iS coUNtEr to How tHiNGS aRe SuPPosEd tO bE”.
honested
March 1st, 2012
8:41 am
homeschooler (why anyone would think that is a good idea is beyond me),
So you agree.
This is a stupid bill that seeks to create a problem rather than address an existing problem.
The simple fact that late term abortion only really relates to:
Severe physical abnormalities.
Result of hidden illegal acts.
Fetal death.
Severe physical problems affecting the incubator.
Oh and thanks for the standard wrong wing talking points demeaning the impoverished, they should make you a stand-in for one of the various talk radio liars.
homeschooler
March 1st, 2012
8:44 am
@honested. I know that is the ultimate goal. I just don’t think they will ever succeed. I just think that people are more educated and more people are aware of the development of a fetus so more and more people (such as myself who has alway been pro-choice) are thinking that the 26 week cut off for abortions is just too late. Would you be okay with a woman aborting at 30 weeks if that what she wanted because it is her body? Sorry, at some point we HAVE to consider the child as a citizen also.
Dumb and Dumber
March 1st, 2012
8:50 am
Not only is the child a citizen, let’s not forget the rapist, child molestor and men who rape their own kids. They have paternal rights too that deserve protecting!
homeschooler
March 1st, 2012
8:54 am
Dumb and Dumber…I’m missing your point.
honested
March 1st, 2012
8:54 am
homeschooler,
If you understand that elimination of all reproductive control is the goal of these anti-Citizen kooks, then why tolerate ANY movement toward that goal?
While the reality of late term abortion might be disconcerting to some, that reality includes the fact that such procedures are already RARE and occur due to very specific and necessary circumstances.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to make efforts that reduce the number of circumstances that lead to the need for late term abortions? Doing so would be a much more efficient use of resources and would gain support of a broader public consensus, but it would not pander to the nutcases that make up GRTL.
In the meantime, I think it is best to stick to the Constitution and “MAKE NO LAW” that forces one’s religious beliefs on another.
Carole
March 1st, 2012
8:56 am
The Georgia Right To Life is much like Grover Norquist who made Republicans sign a pledge not to ever raise taxes. They are bullies. They are like the mafia. As much as I don’t like Karen Handel, they tried this same crap with her. Unfortunately the Repubs allowed them to get too powerful and now they are out of control.
No Longer Republican
March 1st, 2012
8:58 am
homeschooler…think you have all the answers don;t you. Good grief get off your high horse and get a clue. I know the extremely poor get food stamps, wic, etc. But just how many people are out there with children that work and work hard in low paying no benefits jobs. Many times they make too much for government assistance but not enough to have a decent standard of living. Many days they have to choose to eat or to pay to fill their car with gas to get work.Lately it has been also saving money for the light bill so the power doesn’t get cut off, instead of going to the grocery sotre. Adding another child to that situation would be disastrous financially. But I guess you have all the answers. I know this situation because it has happened in my family and with others that I know.
Some people in this world are lazy and could do much better for themselves. Some people simply do not have the ability or the resources to do better. But then again homeschooler knows all and has all the answers.
Sam I Am
March 1st, 2012
9:00 am
What the hell is this state coming to? If this is all those stupid bas####s have to talk about then we don’t need to waste the money for them to meet every year.Further more,these wacko ultra right wing bible thumpers are going to do for the democrats what they haven’t been able to do for themselves;put them back in office.who the hell do they think that they are representing ?
homeschooler
March 1st, 2012
9:01 am
I don’t understand why your are considering this a religious belief. I’m not religious at all. I just think a baby is a human being. You might be right about the majority of late term abortions but I have seen a lot of women who know they are pregnant put off the decision for way to long. I don’t think anyone should be able to abort a healthy 20 week or older fetus. Even in cases of rape or incest. I’m sorry and feel terrible for the victims but they obviously knew they were pregnant and could have aborted earlier. Maybe the bill should have been ammended. It has just bothered me for years that abortions are allowed so late when the baby is healthy.
Carole
March 1st, 2012
9:02 am
homeschooler
I am tired of hearing that abortion laws interfere with women’s rights. Women are not stupid they can a) choose to use birth control b) use the morning after pill c) choose to abort before their child is 20 weeks. d) choose not to have kids at all. e) choose to have 20 kids and support them or choose to have 20 kids and let the government support them. Life is full of choices. Democrats just encourage people to make bad ones.
++++++++
First GET ANOTHER JOB. I know there are people who use the system. I work in a situation where I hear some of this crap as well. But most people need help.
Are birth control pills free now? And since you mention Democrats I’m guessing your a Republican or Independent. If your’e a Repub, one of your guys is screaming about birth control pills being a sin. Abort before 20 weeks old–I’m guessing 1. They don’t have the money 2. They may not know they are pregnant before then 3. They were hoping to keep the baby and up until that point realized it just couldn’t happen.
Democrats encourage people to make bad choices. Hmm, I find the Bible just chock full of people who made bad choices. But a compassionate and loving God used them anyway.
David
March 1st, 2012
9:06 am
This is an issue between the woman, her family and her doctor. I wouldn’t want anyone else, including my legislatures telling me what type of medical decisions my family should make. The men in the legislatures are not doctors. They are just trying to get themselves re-elected. The current law at 26 weeks was just fine. Now they want 20 weeks, next thing you know, it will be 15 weeks.
The members of legislatures need to stop butting into everyone else’s business and worry about their own family.
Tom
March 1st, 2012
9:14 am
Correct, David…this is the point to which I keep referring.
If we truly want government to have as little influence over healthcare as possible (repealing Obamacare, etc…), we need to show consistency in that regard.
clyde
March 1st, 2012
9:15 am
I think I’d rather have the people involved,rather than a legislator,decide for themselves what they want to do about an abortion.
Heather
March 1st, 2012
9:26 am
A fetus cannot survive outside the womb at 20 weeks. I don’t care what it looks like. The fetus is not viable. The age of viability is not until 24 weeks (or 23 in rare circumstances), and even then the chances of survival are very, very low. The chances that a baby born that premature will not have some sorts of medical issues during their infancy and childhood is almost unheard of. Admittedly, I’ve become more pro-life after the birth of my daughter, and I could see just how amazing it can be to create and carry a life. But, I also realize that you cannot force a woman to carry a child if she doesn’t want to. Before abortions were legal, women were strapped to hospitals beds against their will so they wouldn’t try to abort on their own, and they were forced to carry the child to term. Many women who were successful in performing their own abortions ended up with infections, sterility or, worse, dead. No matter what, a woman who adamantly does not want to carry a child will find a way not to carry the child. I think it’s the government’s responsibility to ensure that she can safely do this.
murph
March 1st, 2012
9:36 am
Homeschooler-
What everyone is trying to tell you is to mind your own business. Mind your own body. Choose what you believe to be right but don’t assume that you (or the GA legislature) have the moral authority to dictate to others what choices to make. Get government out of our personal lives. Why is that so hard to understand? You guys are pro-life right up until the baby is born, then you disappear, and switch you mantra to, “How dare you take MY tax dollars to support these welfare babies!” the you go on to have feinting spells about personal responsibility. Shame on you!!!!
Shar
March 1st, 2012
9:37 am
I had a molar pregnancy. My husband and I wanted very much to have the baby, and we were very sad when I miscarried at about 20 weeks. However, I was lucky. A molar pregnancy is one in which the baby is fine but the attachment of the placenta to the uterus does not stop but continues and becomes a cancer. Because the woman’s body is creating so much human growth hormone to support the baby, the cancer is accelerated but masked until delivery, when a healthy baby can be born to a severely debilitated mother, who frequently dies soon thereafter.
I don’t know if the molar aspect of that pregnancy was the cause of the miscarriage, and neither did the doctor at the ER. However, I do know that if I had carried that child to term I could very well be dead. Ultrasounds (which Santorum also wants to delete from insurance coverage as “they almost always lead to abortion” – what?) can discover this condition, but most other standard pregnancy monitoring will not.
Had I found out at a 24 week ultrasound that the placenta that supported that child was killing me, my husband and I would have talked long and hard to the doctor about options and then have had to make a very private, difficult decision about continuing the pregnancy. It is no business of GRTL, some idiot legislator from Athens or anyone else what we would have chosen.
td
March 1st, 2012
10:19 am
honested
March 1st, 2012
8:54 am
homeschooler,
If you understand that elimination of all reproductive control is the goal of these anti-Citizen kooks, then why tolerate ANY movement toward that goal?
That is a bold face lie. I am as conservative as they come and I have not even considered doing away with birth control. I know a great deal of Christians and have never heard one of them talk about doing away with BC. Your argument is the one NOW, planned parenthood and the other loony left wants to come out with to protect abortion until birth.
td
March 1st, 2012
10:31 am
murph
March 1st, 2012
9:36 am
Homeschooler-
What everyone is trying to tell you is to mind your own business.
I agree with Homeshooler. What we are trying to tell you is that you are in the clear minority on this issue and we really do not care what you say because we the moral conviction on our side and the political power right now. You had 130 to murder the unborn and now it is time to protect them in this state.
Your heroes in NOW, planned parenthood and the ACLU will not challenge this new law because they are afraid that the tide has tuned and the SCOTUS is ready to either really restrict murder of the unborn or to totally outlaw the practice.
honested
March 1st, 2012
10:42 am
td,
So you would not extend your simple minded zealotry to birth control.
Good for you.
Unfortunately the so called ‘leaders’ of the political fringe to which you espouse yourself have stated otherwise, even to the point of allowing pharmacists to sidestep their duty and refuse to fill prescriptions.
The law is clear, if you do not want to have an abortion, you should not have one.
Now erosion of the current law should be tolerated for any reason.
honested
March 1st, 2012
10:44 am
td,
Your response to ‘murph’ explains why the wrong wing should never be allowed to erode the RIGHTS of others.
Becky
March 1st, 2012
10:46 am
We are women, we remember, and we vote.
td
March 1st, 2012
10:57 am
honested
March 1st, 2012
10:42 am
And the “political fringe” leadership in your party wants to give animals rights and some want to overthrow this government. Both fringes are nuts.
murph
March 1st, 2012
11:19 am
td says, “we really do not care what you say because we the moral conviction on our side and the political power right now. You had 130 to murder the unborn and now it is time to protect them in this state.”
So you lay claim to the supreme moral conviction? Really? Wow. Just…wow. Your arrogance showcases why the republicans can always be counted on to implode on themselves. You can’t lay claim to God.
So I’m assuming you and the GA legislature also claim to possess the medical expertise to interject yourselves into our private lives. As we’ve seen from many of these posts, there are so many different medical situations that can occur that can affect the decisions that need to be made. These decisions “morally” belong to the doctor and the patient, not the government, and certainly not YOU. This type of legislation is always conceived in an emotional haste without regard to the different situations that can occur.
Shar
March 1st, 2012
11:26 am
@td: Here are the crucial questions that drive my support for pro-choice freedoms:
- Why should your religious and moral beliefs trump my own?
- I absolutely disagree with Edward Ruffin’s post above, that “it isn’t about a woman’s body, it is about a defenseless child.” No – it is about the considered reasoning and personal beliefs of an actual adult over the supposed rights of a potential person. Why do you not trust and respect your fellow citizens to do what they believe is best?
- Why do you believe that you are better able and morally entitled to make the decision that my husband and I were facing, and to force us to accede to your decision?
- Are you willing to return to the time when safe abortions were not available and women frequently died trying to avoid carrying children they did not want? Is this truly better than having healthy women making choices about their own lives?
- Are you personally willing to guarantee support and nurture for every child born to a woman who is forced against her will to carry it?
- Are you willing to provide the level of prenatal care for unwilling mothers that will lift the US maternal mortality rate from 50th in the world – behind most other developed countries as well as many in the Middle East, Albania and Poland – to a level that will assure her safety in carrying and delivering the unwanted child?
These are serious, life-altering questions that I believe those opposing abortion sidestep but which any woman, whether pregnant, potentially pregnant or with fertile daughters, sisters and/or friends, cannot.
I believe you are sincere and well-meaning in your conviction that any conceived life be brought into the world. However, these issues are real, crucial and, thus far, their consequences have been avoided or disparaged by those holding your views. Can you rationally explain your position in light of these considerations?
Tom
March 1st, 2012
11:34 am
What happens when a woman’s physician tells her that the fetus she is carrying has a condition that will almost certainly lead to its death…either in-utero or during/after delivery…..unless a surgery or other medical intervention is performed?
Should the state have the power to mandate that procedure?
James S Pendergraft M.D.
March 1st, 2012
11:39 am
I am a Physician that trained in Ob/Gyn, did a fellowship in high risk pregnancies and specializes in performing late term abortions. I have been performing these procedures for over 25 years. The fetal pain bill is an absolute hoax. It is time for Physicians and other medical personnel in the medical business to raise up in arms and stop legislatures, governors, and other political leaders who have the agenda of ending all abortions. They want to start at late term abortions because they think that the procedure is an easy target for Americans to support outlawing this much needed procedure. The indication for late term abortion is the threat to the woman’s life or health or a fetal genetic defect or a significant fetal anomaly. Those against saving having an abortion even to save the mother’s life, rape or incest is because of the possibility that the fetus is able to feel pain at 20 weeks. Yet they speak of anesthetics and analgesics (medications that put patients to sleep, or stop pain discomfort) are given when a fetus undergoes fetal surgery after 20 weeks in the uterus for conditions to try to save the life of the pregnancy. Yet you would think that these same medications can’t be given before starting an abortion procedure which would make the fetal pain argument non-existent. In essence, there are medications that can be given by several different techniques to assure that the theoretical possibility of fetal pain becomes mute. So let me give an example of what I am talking about. It is known that giving analgesic and anesthetic medications directly to the mother will also make the fetus go to sleep and alleviate the theoretical possibility of fetal pain. These medications can also be given in the amniotic fluid (fluid that surrounds the fetus in the uterus), or given intramuscularly in the fetal buttocks or the thigh. These areas are commonly used to give injections to newborns and infants with no immediate or long term complications. Let’s end this thought of fetal pain by giving medications that we know that will make this issue mute, though I do not believe that fetal pain is an issue. We will be able to re-focus the argument on what late term abortions are all about. That is the decision to have a late term abortion should be between the pregnant woman and her physician as long as the patient meets the appropriate indications and guidelines. Late Term Abortion specialist are rare, and with legislatures and government officials attempting to pass laws who’s only purpose is to outlaw a procedure that saves a woman’s life is immoral, unjust, unlawful, unconstitutional, and will not be tolerated in the United States of America.
Shar
March 1st, 2012
11:47 am
Dr. Pendergraft, thank you for your difficult specialty and your compassion and support for women in such difficult and dangerous situations.
unbelievable
March 1st, 2012
11:50 am
Good for Sharon Cooper for at least being on the side of an exception for rape and incest. Anything else is inhumane to the WOMAN carrying the child, or have Republicans forgotten that she even exists??
I’d like to see a bunch of men debating on the impacts of carrying a child that is the product of rape or incest. I’d love to hear how that affects them, you know, personally.
unbelievable
March 1st, 2012
11:52 am
And Dan Becker is a troll. He called Karen Handel “barren” after she revealed her and her husband’s struggle with IVF. I guess in Dan’s world a woman isn’t worth much unless she can incubate…
When did we go back in time to the 13th century??
Tom
March 1st, 2012
12:23 pm
Referring to Dan Becker as a troll is an insult to trolls everywhere.
homeschooler
March 1st, 2012
2:48 pm
Dr. Pendergraft,
Thank you so much. I always appreciate the opportunity to hear from those who can provide facts. . As I said in my first post, my adversion to late term abortions primarily stems from one experience in which a healthy 26 week old fetus was aborted. For months I thought about that baby. How exactly did he die? How was he disposed of? I really didn’t know. All I know is that, despite him being a product of incest, the OB said he seemed perfectly fine and healthy. I just kept thinking that if this girl had said something about the incest one week later, she would have had to have carried the child to term. I knew of several families who would have adopted that child. To this day, 10 yrs later, I wish he had had a chance.
I too think the fetal pain argument is just an attempt to get these things passed. I know the ultimate goal but, as I stated before, I just don’t think this country would ever go back to abortion being completly illegal. I do now, from reading your post and thinking through the issue that severe medical conditions of the fetus or mother should have been left completely out of the bill. As I said, my focus was on healthy mothers and babies
I stand by my feelings about rape and incest. It’s a terrible thing but, I’m sorry, is killing a baby and tossing it aside any worse?
and, hey murph..I already said I was pro-choice. And most welfare mothers I know have their babies. The ones aborting them are the middle class who had access to and knowledge of birth control and failed to use it. It IS about personal responsibility.
Shar
March 1st, 2012
3:23 pm
@td, Edward Ruffin, Dan Becker and others: I asked legitimate questions in my post. You must have considered these issues as you formulated your own opinions. They are inescapable for every woman you know. Will you not take a few moments and present your thoughts on why restricting women’s access to reproductive health care is sound public (not religious) policy?
Becky, above, is absolutely right. Women cannot help but feel threatened by these male-led efforts to make our intimate decisions for us, and to interfere with the ability of our doctors to give us their best knowledge and recommendations. We respect each other enough to support each other’s choices, regardless of whether we agree with them, and to protect those choices. We do, indeed, vote, something which the Dan Beckers of this world seem determined to undermine and nullify through brutish personal threats.
Can’t you articulate your reasons for ignoring my concerns and doing your best to forcibly remove my options?
murph
March 1st, 2012
5:05 pm
My apologies, Homeschooler, for the tone of my post. My frustration is with your argument, not you.
You stated, “The ones aborting them are the middle class who had access to and knowledge of birth control and failed to use it” – In some cases, yes, and if that was 100% of all abortion cases then the argument for personal responsibility would hold more water, and this legislation might make more sense. BUT we are humans and we come with all kinds of chemistries, medical issues, genes, family histories, etc. Shar has given us but one of the many variations of situations and problems that can occur during a pregnancy. This legislation and others like it ignore our humanness and differences, and propose sweeping one-size-fits-all regulations that restrict our medical options, and infringe on our own personal rights of liberty.
Charles A. Jones Jr. (Athens)
March 1st, 2012
5:09 pm
I too was at the House watching the debate. I live and vote in Athens and I am extremely proud of my representative, The Honourable Doug McKillip, for bringing this issue forward.
In Shar’s list of argumentative questions there is only one that really needs answering, and even then it was not so much a question as a comment. Shar said: “I absolutely disagree with Edward Ruffin’s post above, that “it isn’t about a woman’s body, it is about a defenseless child.” No – it is about the considered reasoning and personal beliefs of an actual adult over the supposed rights of a potential person.”
Wrong. A spermatozoon or an ovum is a “potential person” – but at the instant that they join together, that is a new person. From a scientific standpoint, the new person is formed through the formulation of a completely new DNA at that moment. I think one of the Representatives also mentioned that the baby also has his own blood type which may be different from the mother’s. So this whole “potential person” business is nonsense and should be dismissed accordingly.
GET REAL
March 1st, 2012
5:09 pm
td, do you know who needs to settle these issues regarding reproductive policy? Every woman voter out there who can’t quite understand why a bunch of conservative, so-called Christians ought to dictate what happens to their bodies. That’s who needs to resolve this issue. The women in my house would never consider aborting a fetus, unless it was the result of a rape. And I don’t think you, me, the GRTL, Nathan Deal, Ronald Reagan, Rush Limbaugh, Our Founding Fathers, or Sean Vanity have any buisness taking that decision away from them. Just who in the Hell do these people think they are? It’s ironic isn’t it that conservatives who constantly prattle on and on about government staying out of their lives are the very first ones to try and dictate what a woman should do with an unwanted/unplanned pregnancy or, now, should not complain at all about having an ultrasound probe inserted in her body, even if she or her doctor have not asked for it. Just how much more invasive and dictatorial should these folks be allowed to get?
Women voters- wake up and vote these nutjobs out of office for telling YOU what your “reproductive duties” will be to them and society. VOTE THEM OUT !!!!
Shar
March 1st, 2012
6:17 pm
@Charles Jones of Athens: Those questions I posed are ones that every woman wrestles with in her own way. To say that only one is valid, and that you have decided that you are in a position to decide it, is beyond arrogant and veering into delusional.
Although estimates are very rough, it seems that somewhere between one third and one half – and quite possibly more – of all initial human fertilized eggs spontaneously abort. They were not people, they were potential people.
And where in the Constitution does it say that a woman must subjugate herself to a fertilized egg?
I repeat, why do you feel empowered to insert yourself between a woman, her doctor, her spouse/partner and her conscience? How much are you willing to increase your taxes for the care of the prenatal woman and for a decent upbringing for her unwanted child? Why would you want to make women who are unwilling to carry a pregnancy to term endanger themselves with unsafe alternatives to medical abortions? Why do you believe that your morals and beliefs give you hegemony over the other 52% of humanity? These are important public policy questions that you can’t just wave away as unworthy of your consideration. They’re difficult, as is anything associated with the abortion question, but they are very legitimate. And they do, indeed, “need answering”.
Charles A. Jones Jr. (Athens)
March 1st, 2012
7:09 pm
The first thing I am concerned about is the idea that women are all pro-abortion. Quite to the contrary – when I was co-President of the UGA Pro Life, the great majority of members were women, and all of the other officers were women. And I believe that Representative Taylor and Chairman Sheldon spoke very well on the floor yesterday in support of the bill. We have wrongly allowed “woman” to become synonymous with “abortion” in the public discussion, and I do not think that shows the proper amount of respect to womanhood or motherhood.
Not that it really matters, because abortion is a men’s issue too as I advised the House Committee.
Law is about imposing society’s morality. Not everyone will agree with the law – in fact if everyone agreed, it wouldn’t be necessary to have a law. But we have laws to protect people – including people in the womb. We protect them from people who want to kill them.
This particular bill only protected twenty-two-week-old people, not younger people. But I still do not see any scientific support for saying that once the new DNA sequence is formed, that is not a new individual human being. Even if some of them do “spontaneously abort” does not appear to change that fact; just because someone died does not mean that he was never alive in the first place.
lefty_316
March 2nd, 2012
1:31 am
A person becomes a person when the fetus is viable outside the womb. This garbage, this nonsense about life beginning at the moment of conception, is nothing but religious right rubbish. In fact the entire agenda of the religious right is unsubstantiated bile. Make all abortions illegal? Fine then PROVE life begins at the moment of conception. Outlaw gay marriage? Fine, find a valid reason; “because the Bible says it’s a sin” is NOT a valid reason. Intelligent design? Please spare me.
And quit trying to rewrite history. The most influential of our founding fathers, the intellect behind the founding of this great nation – Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, Hamilton – these great minds were products of the Enlightenment. They placed value on logic and reason over religion.
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March 2nd, 2012
1:35 am
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