Feds deny request to waive three-person car pool rule
From the Associated Press this morning:
Federal authorities have denied Georgia’s request for a waiver to allow two-person carpools in a new toll system on a metro Atlanta freeway.
The state had requested the waiver after repeated traffic backups in the new toll lanes on Interstate 85 in parts of Gwinnett and DeKalb counties.
CBS Atlanta reports that U.S. Department of Transportation officials said they believe it’s too early to evaluate the effectiveness of the so-called HOT lanes. In a letter denying the request, federal authorities also said the toll rates and motorists not being familiar with the lanes may be contributing to their low use.
The waiver would have allowed more drivers to use the new lanes for free.
Without the waiver, vehicles must have three or more people to use them for free.
- By Jim Galloway, Political Insider
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179 comments Add your comment
findog
November 22nd, 2011
8:32 am
Theoretically you get real traffic relief when car pools are 3-plus. That is because many double occupant vehicles are just family members that ride together anyway. Unfortunately theoretical, technology driven, advances in society are easily defeated by pandering politicians. Now the state republican party will send out a mass mailing that President Obama stole a lane from the I-85 commuters and without your contribution Governor Deal will not be able to reverse the state DOT’s decision to implement proven congestion relief…
Mark
November 22nd, 2011
8:43 am
I agree with the decision. If you allow 2-person carpools, then this whole experiment is pointless. You’ll go back to the status quo in terms of traffic levels and you won’t be able to ensure that the average speed of the HOT lanes above whatever threshold you’re trying to hit. If you want to admit that the entire idea was stupid to begin with, send the money back to the Feds and reopen the carpool lanes as they were before.
resno2
November 22nd, 2011
8:45 am
NIce stretch…
Can we just get this out there? Not every stupid decision that the Federal government has made in the past 2 years is obama’s fault, just like every obama failure in the past two years is Bush’s fault.
There…
Kevin
November 22nd, 2011
8:45 am
Let me get this straight-
A Federal initiative to enforce a behavior they feel is the best thing for us will end up costing us more (commute time, gas, productivity).
Tell me again how Federal bureaucracy isn’t restraining job growth or economic improvement? Ponder on that as you sit on I-85.
Also- theoretically, findog, you sound like a smart person. Realistically, you come across as a pompous ass. I do, in fact, blame BO’s administration. Read the facts.
Evan
November 22nd, 2011
8:48 am
I just don’t understand how anyone in their right mind thought this was a good idea in the first place.It was obvious that it was going to be a disaster when they started talking about it. They’re forcing more cars into the non-HOT lanes (unless you want to pony up some cash for the lane that you already paid for with your tax dollars).
If they had added a pay-only lane instead of changing the HOV lane into the HOT lane, then I would feel differently. Supposedly this is wildly successful in other cities. Did they add lanes in those cities or just convert an existing lane like they did here?
aviate
November 22nd, 2011
8:49 am
findog you are a misguided Dem. and although President Obama is a complete failure, he has nothing to do with HOT lanes. It is the incompetence of the State DOT, Legislators (GOP/Dem) and anyone that thought that the lanes would help or even work in the first place. It only take a 10 year old to see that if you take a lane away for a dumb idea that it is going to cause backups in the other lanes. Has anyone heard of supply and demand? The demand for the HOT lanes is not there at any price!!! Wake up people it is a shifted tax.
Ron
November 22nd, 2011
8:51 am
Evan, when has the guberment ever had a GOOD idea?
JeromeMJ
November 22nd, 2011
8:53 am
You are very foolish to even discuss this lane and the abuse of power from the government in making them a tooll lane. They need to learn fiscal responsibility and cut their salaries and benefits until they are reasonable and match the private sector.
WGA
November 22nd, 2011
8:53 am
The issue is not about the fee or whether or not 2 or 3 people can ride for free, the issue is having to sign up on Peach Pass and have an electronic indicator in your car.
HOT lanes are not designed to ease conjestion for throughway roads like I-85. HOT lanes are geared for the GA 400 extension from I-85 to I-285 where you want to “tax” local commuters.
Each day, thousands of vactioners travel through this area not knowing about the electronic device being required. So last year those same families with SUV’s and cars full of their kids going and coming from Disney World now jam the remaining lanes. They either do not know about the device or do not want to pay for one for vacation time travel. Until they remove the electronic device requirement, traffic jams on the regular lanes are here to stay.
frustrated freeway freak
November 22nd, 2011
8:53 am
I respectfully (more or less) disagree that it would NOT relieve a bit of the congestion. One lane is underutilized, all the others are over utilized.
Giving two occupant vehicles the option to shift over would relieve some of the pressure on the over utilized lanes and get more utilization from the under utilized lane. Duh.
Not broaching the subject of double taxation, of course. Just another elephant in the politicians break room.
A B Normal
November 22nd, 2011
8:53 am
Every lane of 78 is still free from Athens all the way to ol’ Terminus (Atlanta in better days) and the scenery is much nicer too!
cartoon
November 22nd, 2011
8:55 am
What if you have a body in the trunk, and a deer tied to your hood? Does that count?
I’m so confused.
DannyX
November 22nd, 2011
8:56 am
How can anyone blame the Democrats on this one??? This decision came from the US Dept of Transportation.
Charles
November 22nd, 2011
8:56 am
and they are proceeding with bidding to extend this wonderful idea to I-75? I was riding on I-85 going out of town with four people but no peach pass stuck in traffic and we noticed the lane was almost empty- but the vast majority of the cars paying were new German and Japanese luxury SUVs and cars- often single occupancy. This is less about congestion that it is about pampering the minority willing and able to pay and give the DOT extra revenue — just like the 400 toll was meant to go away after the bonds were paid off — right, like that was ever going to happen. I would love to see the return on capital on this wonderful project. They are so sure it is the ignorance of the general public and not their wonderful idea that is restricting use – hmmmm
Mama Says
November 22nd, 2011
8:57 am
More B.S. from the federal government — now we are told how many lanes we can drive in after our tax dollars paid for the lanes in the 1st place !
Name (required) too
November 22nd, 2011
8:57 am
Sometimes you just have to help yourself. When others “help” you, it always comes with contingecies (many of which seem so small that you pretend to ignore them). With all these colleges and universities in Georgia, we couldn’t figure out this traffic issue without federal money? Let’s empower our own minds and talents. (Dang that sounds so conservative smh)
Allen
November 22nd, 2011
8:58 am
The answer is to apply the much touted federal approach to enforcement of immigration law to enforcement of the HOT lane: go after only the most egregious offenders (i.e., single drivers without a peach pass) and ignore the rest. Let them take the state to court and explain why it is important to apply the letter of the law to Atlanta drivers but only some vague notion of the law to criminal aliens.
findog
November 22nd, 2011
8:59 am
Kevin, aviate,
Just the facts
I have been opposed to this from the very start, been blogging with td and Road Scholar for a couple of years. I even miss Last Man Standing and wish Aquagirl would post more.
I am not any more smart than you probably are, I just happened to be an engineer who supported some work for the Georgia DOT the last five years. To paraphrase Newt, social engineering of transportation to get more vehicles off the road is no better than adding lanes to make wasteful consumption of energy more convenient.
According to my favorite drum line there is a Kevin in every marching band; is that really true?
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
November 22nd, 2011
9:01 am
Funny, Gwinnett denied MARTA for decades in favor of their cars and not are complaining when you have something that was suppose to benefit them. They have basically cut a full lane of traffic off. Traffic is horrible. That space could have been used to have MARTA heavy rail right down the middle, like on Ga 400. I bet those trains would have been a lot more full than the few cars that travel down the HOT lanes. Nice job!
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
9:01 am
No one can seem to answer this question – Jim, this is a challenge. How does the automatic Peachpass system know that there are three people in the car? I have heard that you cannot travel in the HOT lanes, even if you have three people, unless you ave registered and paid money into an account. When you drive under the system, like GA 400, it deducts the charge. But back to my question, how does it know when you have three people so not to charge your account? If you can get the answer to that question, Jim, I would appreciate it.
the truth...
November 22nd, 2011
9:02 am
WHO gets the money collected from these tolls?
So you don’t believe in State’s rights? Good then you are an idiot and you must cheer when one more area of our locally affected lives are trumped by Washington beaurocrats ….ln this seemingly simple scenario, some Fed who doesn’t ride our freeways and God I hope never does….trumps logic…
Jeff H.
November 22nd, 2011
9:02 am
The whole thing is a mess, and the HOT lanes need to go back to the people that already paid for them – us taxpayers.
Scott
November 22nd, 2011
9:02 am
The HOT lanes are useless, and a theft of the HOV lanes that were put in at taxpayer expense years ago. Also, it’s very confusing that inside the perimeter on I-85 the lane is an HOV land, but then changes to a HOT lane. I think Atlanta commuters should be furious and demand their HOV lanes back…after all, we paid for them.
jd
November 22nd, 2011
9:04 am
The HOT lane decision was made by the BUSH administration — when Obama’s new transport sec came to visit 2 years ago — he looked at the idea and said — “Are you sure you want to do that?” The state said yes — took the money and the rules that went with it… so — blame the Public Policy Foundation — its their libertarian plan for transporting the wealthy more quickly!
findog
November 22nd, 2011
9:04 am
More facts,
The HOV lane was created by narrowing the existing lanes and then making the inside shoulder half the normal safe width.
So the State of Georgia first stole a foot of your everyday travel lane to add the HOV and then put a toll on the lane they stole.
The simplest solution for you I-85 bound commuters is to have your car converted to natural gas so you can cruse alone in an alternate fuel vehicles; that or buy a motorcycle…
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
9:05 am
I agree with Evan – if you wanted to build a new lane, then charge for it to recoup your investment – I have no problem with that. But to take an existing lane out of service and make people start paying for the priviledge of using it – that is just wrong. Pretty soon they will decide to make ALL lanes of I-85 south toll lanes so as to make more money. After all, you have the coice to drive on the surface streets.
findog
November 22nd, 2011
9:07 am
Charles,
The project is projected to lose a million a year as the tolls would not pay for the technology, and that was before Governor Deal cut the rates
DannyX
November 22nd, 2011
9:07 am
Republicans in Georgia got us into this Express Lane and now a Republican in DC is refusing to change the rules.
So typical.
Joe-boo
November 22nd, 2011
9:08 am
When the Brothel gets busted, even the piano player goes to jail!
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
9:09 am
What if Georgia passes a personhood act and you have two fertilized ova in a freezer in your car – does that count as three people?
Realist
November 22nd, 2011
9:11 am
Mountain Man – You tell it if you have three or more or not. You set the pass when you get it to either 3+ or pay. When you’re not doing that you call up/log in and change it. Then, when you go back, change it again.
This was an idea from the BUSH administration, not Obama. It’s basic Republican theory – use the market to regulate behavior. The lane was already taken away for 2+ carpools. When the economy was good the lane was starting to fail. Now that the economy sucks, well…there’;s more than enough room in the lane. The Republicans just said – WAIT! There’s room there! Let’s CHARGE FOR IT! And give our rich buddies a better ride!
So, being the good Republican state we are, we did.
Remember – Obama wants you to use public transit – not drive.
Gresham Brown
November 22nd, 2011
9:13 am
Still waiting on the Occutards to occupy an HOV lane. That will be pure entertainment at it’s best!
Fred
November 22nd, 2011
9:15 am
It’s all Obama’s fault.
DannyX
November 22nd, 2011
9:15 am
“The Republicans just said – WAIT!”
Not the one in DC!!! He said no dice Georgia, stick to the terms.
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
9:16 am
So, every time I get three people in the car I have to phone in and change? Or leave it set like that, and phone in and change if I want to use it as a toll? Yea, that is efficient. And, as others said, those vacationers passing through have no chance to use it, even though they have three people in the car.
Atlantaphotog
November 22nd, 2011
9:17 am
We can probably stop the “Federal Obama Big Brother” crap now, folks. It wasn’t the Fed’s idea to put the HOT lanes in place… it was the Georgia DOT and Nathan Deal’s idea. They then decided to also use some Federal money for the project as well as other tax monies, and at that point yes, the Feds DO have a say in it, because Federal money was used.
Let’s review: The HOT lanes were not the Feds idea. They were not Obama’s idea. They were the idea of the leader who you people voted for, in this state.
The State is unwilling to put commuter rail in the suburban counties, even though many larger cities have had it for years (or decades). The state refuses to put any money into MARTA to extend the rail into park-and-ride stations and lots in Gwinnett, and the State refuses to give money to Gwinnett to build their own rail, etc etc…. the HOT lanes were their best idea, and THEY went to the Feds for money to add to it. They got it. There are repercussions in using Federal money, as in, you give the Feds a right to say how it’s used to some level. They got that too. Stop complaining. Use the lanes – or don’t. Then remember this the next time you stand in a voting booth to vote for the next Governor – and do try next time to pick one with a brain.
PeachPassThis
November 22nd, 2011
9:17 am
How about an email address of someone at the Federal DOT so they can get more real-time data on how commuters, Holiday travelers and Atlantans feel about this decision?
Bill Gullion
November 22nd, 2011
9:19 am
I live in Cobb County and rarely drive on I-85 North. I did so yesterday between 2 PM and 4 PM with my wife. I got off at Beaver Ruin. All the way out and back on I-85, we never saw a single car using the HOV lanes! This has to be one of the greatest fiascos I’ve ever seen. The state and federal governments will be in for a real battle if they try HOV lanes on I-75 north. It’s not working. Give it up.
Richard
November 22nd, 2011
9:19 am
I suggest that some people go out, cover up your license plate, and beat those cameras with a baseball bat. Then OCCUPY THE HOT LANE.
L2223
November 22nd, 2011
9:20 am
Actually, Kevin and all those blaming the federal government, let me get it straight for you. I’m as opposed to the whole idea of the HOT lanes as much as you are. But let’s lay blame where it really lies and that’s with Georgia’s state government. It’s not the feds controlling states’ rights, it’s not Washington bureaucrats, and it’s not Washington telling us what to do. True, it is a federal initiative, but Georgia’s (conservative) state government applied for the federal grant money to fund the HOT lanes. It was not forced upon us by the federal government; our conservative state lawmakers applied for and accepted the money knowing and agreeing to follow the stipulations laid out in the FOA (funding opportunity announcement) requiring 3+ riders, tolls, etc. The revenue from the tolls goes back to the state for maintenance of roadways, the HOT lanes, etc. Georgia wanted the extra revenue, so Georgia applied for the federal money. If we don’t want to abide by these federal stipulations, our state should not be applying for federal funds! Go tell that to your republican state congressman!
cartoon
November 22nd, 2011
9:21 am
We could solve this problem by allowing hitch-hiking in the HOT lanes. Then, when there’s only two schmoes in a car, they can simply pick up another schmoe.
whatta they gonna do?
November 22nd, 2011
9:26 am
Scre* the feds, what are they going to do if two persons ride in the lane? All the state has to do is just not enforce a fine for two person car pools that are properly Peach-Pass registered. The only way they get caught now is if a car-pool cop pulls ‘em over and checks their registration status. If a cop sees 2 people in the car and they have a P-pass, let ‘em go on by….
BUT we know that crocodile tears are being shed by Queen Gena anyway on the turn down as they want the $$$$…..I’m sure she is sooooo disappointed in the ruling…..
john
November 22nd, 2011
9:28 am
The SRTA gets the revenues from the tolls. They are the ones that pushed tfor this stupid idea. Same group that refused to take away the GA 400 toll road. why. They need to pay for Dr. Evan’s 200k salary to run a toll booth.
Someone needs to investigate the procurement of the technology. It was awarded to a buddy of the good doctor, and the technology was not compatible. A huge waste of ga tax payers dollars. They had a report that it would worsen traffic, yet they still spent the money. The SRTA must be abolished.
Flatpickpaul
November 22nd, 2011
9:28 am
Please note, former Governor Sonny Perdue (R) signed off on this. And here’s the vote of support from that “Free market think tank,” GPPF http://www.gppf.org/article.asp?RT=16&p=pub/Transportation/hotlanes.htm
Federal News
November 22nd, 2011
9:30 am
Speaking of Federal news, did anyone see a story in the AJC which changed dramatically from when it was first reported as a “terrible accident”.? I didnt see it except for here:
http://www.13wmaz.com/news/article/152619/153/Georgia-Man-Admits-to-Killing-Federal-Officer?odyssey=obinsite
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
9:30 am
What I have read about HOT lanes is that they are good if built as an additional lane. I don’t believe that was the case here. If someone has a link that shows that an additional lane was added (by squeezing the lanes one foot and taking the emergency lane), please publish that.
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
9:32 am
So what if I sign up for a Peachpass as a three-person carpool and drive solo in it. How is the system going to know? Will it send information about every car to a police officer stationed there? What if I use dummies in there with me? Hey, this could be fun.
Laughing Cow
November 22nd, 2011
9:35 am
As an architecture student, I find it very amusing that you all can complain about the traffic you are enduring.
I would think the solution would be more obvious, and its apparently not.
You can’t solve traffic by adding lanes, expanding highways; because for every lane you add someone else will fill it faster than you can switch to that lane. At the rate people are moving into atlanta it will be impossible to ever fill the need.
What you can do, is become active in decisions made in the communities. Help fund an EFFICIENT public transportation system, live closer to city and create a dense urban environment so that everything you need is in a decent distance and decreases the importance of car use, so that your job, childs school and etc are in walking distance or accessible by transit.
You will decrease the amount of money spent on “expansion and relief” efforts while making it healthier for yourself and children.
The problem is… Most you you don’t want to give up using your own car for the good of your local economy and the state.
Successful models: America’s Metropolis, Switzerland, Charlotte (they’re trying), Denver and a few other cities…
JamminJ
November 22nd, 2011
9:35 am
The HOT lanes were a bad idea to begin with, unless you have money. To me it’s a slap to the face of all hard-working taxpayers. Like somebody already said we have paid for these roads already through taxes. And how is it that just because you have money you have more opportunities on a public road, it’s not a private road. The State clearly only cares about those with money and roads, they do not care about public transportation. I’m sure developers are licking there lips and want to build more toll roads using our tax payers money. The State government is sold out to large developers. I just don’t understand how taking away an incentive to carpool is a good idea, in lieu of money. And think about the money wasted making those lanes HOT lanes, millions of dollars to take away a carpool lane, GREAT IDEA IDIOTS! Lets just build more lanes and not think long term, that’s the ticket.
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
9:42 am
Laughing cow – the problem is with locating all the jobs in Atlanta, with people living in the bedroom communities outside. Move the jobs out where people really want to live, where schools are not APS and houses are cheaper. Locate the businesses there rather than concentrating them downtown. Scatter the State government out to the suburbs. Leave the city to fester in its own garbage.
rod
November 22nd, 2011
9:48 am
Kevin wait. Did BO decide to have some Hot A– Lanes or was that Georgia’s own doing. Typical we have become a country of blame someone else for our own faults.I have to agree on this issue only with Herman Cain. If you are in traffic and burning gas and time waiting to get to work or back home look in the mirror and blame your da-n self for electing the current officials in power in Georgia. The Feds didn’t say we must have Hot A– Lanes or Lexus Lanes!!!!
Rise Up!
November 22nd, 2011
9:48 am
At least the state legislature let the 400 toll sunset this year as they promised 20 years ago!
gimmeyourdollar
November 22nd, 2011
9:54 am
HUH??? They went and asked the Feds?? I thought most Georgians stuck by the mantra, (said with a deep southern drawl) “I don’t need no big ol’ gov-a -ment to tell me whattado”.
Goose
November 22nd, 2011
9:56 am
Now I have not had the “pleasure” to drive on 85 but the deal with the tolls and that it worked in other states is semi-right. I lived in California and the state actually sold two lanes to a private company and they (the private company) determine the price. Basically on the 91 you can pay upwards of $5 or more to use the toll lane on a Friday afternoon. Are they utilized? Yes. About as much as they are here that I can see on the news. They have traffic but again its using a electronic pass and they only get a break when three or more are in the vehicle. You dont however have to go online to change your status BEFORE your trip. WTH is that all about. Its BIG BROTHER if you ask me. It is a private company making the money and not the state in CA.
woodrow
November 22nd, 2011
9:56 am
HOT lanes and HOV lanes were a bad idea from the beginning. We should convert all the HOT lanes to train lines. And we should raise Ad Valorem taxes and gas taxes to pay for them. Let the polluting drivers of gas hogs pay for our transportation solutions.
Tez
November 22nd, 2011
9:58 am
Is anybody else tired of the battle between the inner-city and the suburbs? We need a legitimate transit system. When I travel to London, NY, or other major cities I never worry about traffic. Trains go everywhere.
gimmeyourdollar
November 22nd, 2011
9:59 am
Kevin— OMG– you’re talking about facts? Do you even know the facts yourself? The federal governemnt isn’t who rammed this HOT mess down our throats. Barack O didn’t have she to do with this. As painful as it is for you, I think you should look at Georgia state leaders for creating this problem
Hannity Listener and Great American
November 22nd, 2011
10:01 am
I heard Obama got the idea for HOT lanes from Bill Ayers during one of their secret meetings at a mosque within the Department of African American and Karl Marx Studies at Harvard.
Laughing Cow
November 22nd, 2011
10:01 am
Mountain Man-
That is the exact problem. This micro-cities are pulling money from every economy and making it harder to live for everyone.
You can’t live in a RURAL environment and want a CITY job, if you want that to even possibly work you live within the TRANSECT.
The area that puts you in the middle of both, not to be confused with the suburbs. you can’t have 4 acres and want the perks of the city job, with more revenue can capital concentrated you can attract more companies, students and better talent to an area that would be forward thinking and efficiently respond to the needs of the citizens by capitalizing on the rising gas prices and the inability to stomach the prices.
Its a reason why the city is the hub of any major state, its where business happens. To create micro-cities would be detrimental to the fabric of any city, and even more to the city of atlanta. Ppl need to break past this “southern” way of thinking and really push for something out of the box….
Widening roads is not the answer… Splitting resources is even worse, look at all the bus line we have in georgia and the still get you no where but 30 minutes outside of your destination in 2 hrs…
Jim Hall
November 22nd, 2011
10:02 am
The feds and GA GDOT people are seriously underbrained on this one. Why would anyone pay money to ride on a road that was paid for a long time ago? Answer: Only people who are not bright enough to realize the rest of us have been sold out for the benefit of just a few!!
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
10:03 am
The other thing I read is that HOV to HOT lane conversion (what happened here) should take place only if the HOV lane is UNDERUTILIZED, I hardly think that was the case. It really comes down to the money – they could take the Fed’s money, implement the system, then collect money in the future. A big win if you only care about the money and not the congestion – right, Nathan Deal and Sonny Perdue. Sort of like the 400 toll road. Just wait, you will see a lot of I-75 south converted to toll soon.
PK
November 22nd, 2011
10:05 am
I’m confused by this statement in the story “The state had requested the waiver after repeated traffic backups in the new toll lanes on Interstate 85 in parts of Gwinnett and DeKalb counties.” Why would you want to allow more cars “…after repeated traffic backups in the new toll lanes”…
Katz P Ajamas
November 22nd, 2011
10:05 am
If you don’t like your commute, move or get a different job. Consider that the 3000+ sq foot house with covenants(grass species and height, paint color, …), and 16 hours a week commuting might not yield the quality of life you would experience from an 800 sq foot apartment and 3 hours a week traveling to and from work.
gimmeyourdollar
November 22nd, 2011
10:06 am
I LOVE LOVE LOVE Richard’s idea. Too funny!!!!
findog
November 22nd, 2011
10:07 am
http://www.ibtta.org/files/PDFs/Managed%20Lane%20Engineering%20Analysis%20GA.pdf
Lane Components
Managed Lane facilities should include 12-foot travel lanes in all applications. In select locations, engineers could reduce lane widths to 11-foot due to right-of-way, or other constraints. Ideally lane width reductions should not be considered for lanes used by buses or trucks.
They reduced the I-85 lanes to 11-foot to add the HOV in the 1990’s
RM
November 22nd, 2011
10:07 am
The sad part about this whole Peach Pass stuff is our government at all levels is so hard up for more money to spend, they actually do something like this to raise revenues. The HOV lane was complete and already paid for by us, now because of some scheme we get to pay again.
Katie
November 22nd, 2011
10:08 am
It is absolutely beyond belief that we must ask the Federal government what we are allowed to do on our roads. Roads paid for and maintained by Georgia tax payers. Way to go Georgia lawmakers! I hope the $60million was worth it.
Joe
November 22nd, 2011
10:09 am
The HOT Lanes on I-85 were never about relieving congestion or solving any kind of traffic problem.
GDOT saw the HOV lane was backing up. That meant it had too much traffic in it. So they converted to HOT with help from a Federal Grant (which means the Fed’s have oversight as it’s their money), with the specific goal of reducing traffic counts in the lane.
Obviously this forces more traffic into the regular lanes, causing more congestion. The GDOT traffic folks KNEW this would happen. Of course they did.
The sole purpose of the conversion to HOT lanes is to aggravate people into buying Peach Passes and paying the tolls for more revenue. It’s nothing but a money grab, pure and simple, and the people at GDOT making the call to do this have known it all along.
What I would like to know is what is the additional revenue to be used for? Future improvements to I-85? If so, then maybe that’s okay. They are needed and there’s no other source of money for it. And what’s the net profit? I doubt the revenue is earmarked for anything other than disappearing into the general fund though.
Have they compared the additional revenue vs. the additional cost that the traveling public at large pays for the extra congestion (costs of additional gas wasted, lost productivity from workers sitting in traffic, etc.)? What’s the real gain from this? I’d bet money nobody has, and if they did, they see they weren’t really gaining anything in the big scheme of this.
If you want to relieve traffic on I-85, you need to build alternate routes and the outer loop at this point. Yes that means new highways and a way for all that pass through truck traffic to go around Atlanta farther out. There’s no way around it. We need to decide whether we want to do that, or decide to live with what we have and deal with the congestion, and move forward one way or another.
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
10:09 am
And people might ride a MARTA train if it got them where they wanted to go – like the Stadium or the DOme. I recently was in Washington and rode their train right from the airport to my hotel, no car needed. Atlanta was never set up like that, and our “after-the-fact” system is laughable (as well as an affront to ride). Ride MARTA trains and the bums shake you down for money, thugs play music from their boom boxes and try to “sell” you cd’s, and you live in fear for your life.
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
10:13 am
Katx – the trouble is that 800 square foot apartment costs the same as that 300 square foot house in the suburbs, and you have to pay for private schools to keep your kids out of APS. By the time you do the math, your quality of life, even with the 3 hour a day commute, is higher in the suburbs. Why do you think people live there?
Frontman
November 22nd, 2011
10:14 am
Katz,
The commute has been made worse by ill-advised activity by… wait for it… government (shocking, isn’t it). “If you don’t like your commute, move or get another job.” You forgot to add, “Or, government can steadily (or abruptly) make the commute so bad that you are forced to move AND get another job.”
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
10:14 am
3000 square foot house in the suburbs
Road Warrior
November 22nd, 2011
10:21 am
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
10:09 am
And people might ride a MARTA train if it got them where they wanted to go – like the Stadium or the DOme. I recently was in Washington and rode their train right from the airport to my hotel, no car needed. Atlanta was never set up like that, and our “after-the-fact” system is laughable (as well as an affront to ride). Ride MARTA trains and the bums shake you down for money, thugs play music from their boom boxes and try to “sell” you cd’s, and you live in fear for your life.
Your credibility just went out the window when you wrote “boom boxes”. You haven’t been on MARTA rail since the late 1980’s, eh?
I ride it at least twice a week. It’s no more dangerous than some of the other cities I’ve visited like New York, Toronto, Washington, San Francisco, Montreal or Chicago.
By the way, MARTA rail goes straight to the Georgia Dome. I don’t fear for my life because I remain alert and look and walk like I have somewhere to go. I don’t just shuffle along looking aimless – that could make you a mark in any major city.
Laughing Cow
November 22nd, 2011
10:23 am
Mountain Man-
I’m sure you make up the price difference in the amount of gas you spend, the maintenance on your car and etc.
Do you think Marta would be bad if it actually had funds to operate at the same level the Metro does in DC? Do you see how many ppl ride the Metro compared to Marta; you can clearly see they have more revenue and are able to protect ppl from the “woes” of DC, because we all know DC has vagrants everywhere.
You can say as much as you want about the schools in the APS, you would be right, but that can be attributed to things that are out of the scope of my argument.
You have to have revenue to improve, and riders to sustain.
catlady
November 22nd, 2011
10:24 am
Maybe they should convert 2 MORE lanes to HOT lanes, to force more people to use them! I know, don’t put the idea in anyone’s head!
Reverie
November 22nd, 2011
10:24 am
Sometimes, when something is counter-intuitive, it produces great results. Sometimes it is just stupid. This is just stupid. For all of the fans of this idea, hop on to I-85 on the weekend and count how many people used the lane. Meanwhile, everyone else squeezes into the other lanes. Social engineering is not the role or the right of the government. The people, having already paid for the lane, are now being denied the lane by the whim of the government. Drivers are so frustrated with the overreaching of authority there are moves afoot to simply take over the lane by flooding it. I applaud this peaceful exertion of the authority of the people over the excess of the government.
Reverie
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
10:25 am
Thanks findog – I remember them squeexing the lanes down to make the HOV lane. Then they converted the HOV lane to a HOT lane. But they did not add a new lane – the number of lanes is the same now as it was before the HOT lane opened. It would have been fine if they left the alternative open for HOV-2 usage. You still would have had to get the Peachpass.
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
10:32 am
“Your credibility just went out the window when you wrote “boom boxes”. You haven’t been on MARTA rail since the late 1980’s, eh? ”
I rode MARTA last year with my kids coming from the airport. Two persons entered the train and one started playing music on their “portable cd-playing machine” (what we used to call boom boxes, back in my day), while one of the persons walked up and down the aisle trying to sell people copies of the cd’s.
I go to Braves games and when I do, I drive my car, because riding the MARTA train is so difficult.
zeke
November 22nd, 2011
10:37 am
Just what the hell has the fed’l government limiting what Georgia can do with it’s roads! Scum feds are ruining all of the USA! Tell them to go to hell about this, schools, voting laws! They are vastly exceeding the Constitutions granted authority!!!!~!!!
DannyX
November 22nd, 2011
10:38 am
Hey Mountain Man, why don’t you just skip Atlanta and join the 200 people at a Gwinnett Braves game?
zeke
November 22nd, 2011
10:39 am
10-4 Mountain Man @ 9:42 am
gimmeyourdollar
November 22nd, 2011
10:40 am
Dear Katie– If you ask the Fed government for money (which Georgia did), then the Fed government has a right to say how the money they just gave you can be spent. if you don’t want the Feds to have any say, then don’t ask for the money in the first place. dayum
DannyX
November 22nd, 2011
10:42 am
Lol zeke, And yet it was Governor Deal begging the feds for 1 billion dollar strings attached Race to the Top education funds, it was Georgia begging for strings attached Express Lane funds.
Nabo Imbugo
November 22nd, 2011
10:43 am
If you don’t like it, then don’t use I-85.
findog
November 22nd, 2011
10:51 am
Mountain Man,
I have been all over the NAFTA region and have seen 3+HOV work in places like Boston and LAX to Riverside
Gerogia always does stuff halfway and/or on the cheap
I bet this will be used to get the people to vote for TSPLOST next year
I hope they realize they are being played and vote it down
Realist
November 22nd, 2011
10:54 am
Hey Mountain Man –
You made a generalization about how bad MARTA is (with boom boxes and folks selling CDs) based upon one ride a year ago?
Get with the times.
Dave
November 22nd, 2011
10:54 am
Nabo – sometimes you don’t have a choice (stupid comment)
fgfgfg
November 22nd, 2011
10:58 am
that lane was bought an paid for decades ago and now the government only wants to allow the rich to use it! so the rich can be at work on time , get promotions, etc. while the poor are continually held back. its time to occupy the HOT lanes!
Courtney
November 22nd, 2011
11:00 am
This incompetence is why no one wants government run health care. Idiots cannot do what is right if they tried.
Spade
November 22nd, 2011
11:02 am
So we all know this is about money used to line someone’s pockets. The Feds decided it was “too” early to conclude that the HOT lanes are ineffective. They hope that Gwinnettians will eventually get tired of sitting in traffic, and break down and double pay to use the lanes. I think we should continue to boycott the HOT lanes for however long it takes! Let the rich dummies pay back the $60 million they took for the stupid idea. It is the rich that should spend more money anyway. IF WE ALL STAND FIRM, then the Feds are bound to reverse their decision when they conclude that Georgians aren’t as dumb as they think we are. After all if it doesn’t make dollars, then it doesn’t make sense.
Next election, Nathan Deal has got to go!
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
11:03 am
Why would anyone vote for T-splost after the 400 debacle?
Realist – you are welcome to ride MARTA all you want. I ride it when it is convenient and makes sense (very rarely).
I ride other mass transit systems elsewhere in the world and love them.
DannyX
November 22nd, 2011
11:12 am
Maybe that 91 fwy Express Lane in California works because they also have commuter rail running right next to it.
The 91 Express Lane project is a product of very conservative Orange County. They were going to lead the way with privately financed toll lanes. Of course the project went bankrupt and required a government bailout.
Thomas
November 22nd, 2011
11:12 am
Things will run smoother when they convert to two lanes in each direction. The innermost lane will then be protected from the slowdown associated with the access points, while the outer lane will perfom about the same as the single HOT lane now. And, we will get DOUBLE THE REVENUE!!!!
Henry
November 22nd, 2011
11:13 am
The state may have been foolish to apply for the federal grant, but federal control based on that grant has got to end some time. We need to take a look at GDOT asphalt maintenance requirement for that lane and see how it works in with the federal grant requirement. If we just use more federal money to maintain the lane then it seems we will be stuck with federal control over the lane.
PR
November 22nd, 2011
11:26 am
Just more stupidty from Georgia’s leadership. HAPPINESS IS ATLANTA IN YOU REARVIEW MIRROR. So glad to be gone from a city that has got to be the WORST for mass transit. HOT lanes don’t serve any purpose other than to get more cars on the road. Want to solve the problem? Get real mass transit with light rail. MARTA is a freakin joke…it goes nowhere!
MARTA Rida
November 22nd, 2011
11:31 am
“Funny, Gwinnett denied MARTA for decades in favor of their cars and not are complaining when you have something that was suppose to benefit them. They have basically cut a full lane of traffic off. Traffic is horrible. That space could have been used to have MARTA heavy rail right down the middle, like on Ga 400. I bet those trains would have been a lot more full than the few cars that travel down the HOT lanes. Nice job!”
I must agree. If Gwinnett voted MARTA in 40 or even 15 years ago, then we are not having this conversation.
And to Mountain Man, for such a masculine sounding name, you sure are scared to ride MARTA. I ride it everyday with my wife and we never feel uncomfortable or fear for our safety. Like Road Warrior said, if people are aware then they are less likely to be victims of crime. If you pull your redneck out of the cow, then you can see that there is nothing wrong with mARTA
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
11:35 am
They won’t let me carry my Glock on Marta!
Nabo Imbugo
November 22nd, 2011
11:36 am
Dave-
Get a job near your home, so you don’t have to use the highway at all! If that isn’t possible, then get a home near your job!
rob
November 22nd, 2011
11:38 am
a Priest a Rabbi and the HOT lanes walk into a bar, the bartender looks up and goes, what is this …some kind of joke?
Katie
November 22nd, 2011
11:41 am
gimmeyourdollar – That was kinda my point…
liberalefty
November 22nd, 2011
11:47 am
heres a solution. dont drive.see how simple that was?
John D
November 22nd, 2011
11:53 am
This nothing but extortion!
liberalefty
November 22nd, 2011
11:54 am
to bad the republican leaders are too racist to adequately fund MARTA. in other word traffic will get worse and worse
John D
November 22nd, 2011
11:54 am
liberalefty – you sound ignorant. Might as well say. If we all just died we wouldn’t have to worry about any of the worlds problems period!
Harvey D. Pooka
November 22nd, 2011
11:54 am
Well, you folks (G-DOT and whatever legislatures voted for it) got what you wanted….. so, deal with it. ***”Delaing with it” will be extended to being voted out of office the first chance we get.
Cap Pistol
November 22nd, 2011
11:55 am
Anyone driving a Mercedes should be welcome to drive in the HOT lane, anytime, free. The next MARTA extension should be off a cliff. It sux. Always has. Always will.
J W
November 22nd, 2011
11:57 am
Hey, G-DOT. Has it sunk in yet that this fiasco was a STUPID idea?!
Don
November 22nd, 2011
11:58 am
@mountain man at 10:09
Wash DC and Atlanta started building their heavy rail transit at the same time. Neither city was “set up for it” at the time. The difference is that DC kept going while Atlanta stopped building. Now, DC has developed around transit while Atlanta is stuck in the past.
It could be worse, however. Atlanta would be “Detroit South” if they hadn’t build MARTA.
Another Blunder
November 22nd, 2011
11:58 am
The only folks to benefit from this mess is the sign company that was overpaid for the new signage.
honested
November 22nd, 2011
12:00 pm
How many generations will pass before sonny perdue’s gag gifts stop gagging GA?
Don
November 22nd, 2011
12:01 pm
@RM at 10:07
We don’t get to “pay for the lane again”. It’s worst than that. Just operating all the scanners and cameras will cost more than the toll revenue coming in. The original estimate was that it would cost $1M over the toll revenue. Even worse, that $100+M to install all that junk isn’t covered by the tolls, either.
liberalefty
November 22nd, 2011
12:04 pm
good ole state guvment at its incompetent best.
Woody
November 22nd, 2011
12:05 pm
uh, I don’t think you can lay this on at the doorstep of the federal government. All they did was pay for building it, with some stipulations that were open for everyone to see. State government, however… overwhelmingly Republican… doctrinaire privatizers… want privatization? this is what it looks like, folks…
Don
November 22nd, 2011
12:09 pm
@ zeke at 10:37
What authority does the Fed gov’t have over GA roads? I guess it has something to do with having paid 90% of the construction costs? They are “Interstate” highways….
Elliot Garcia
November 22nd, 2011
12:09 pm
Why are you so cheap? Just pay the money and use the lane! enough whining already….
Don
November 22nd, 2011
12:13 pm
@ JW at 11:57
I don’t think GDOT cares. They got to spend $100+M of Fed money on the project. Doing projects is fun for GDOT – it’s what they like to do.
We can turn off all that HOT silliness. All we have to do is repay the $100+M to the Feds. But, that would mean fewer new projects for GDOT, so why would they do that?
liberalefty
November 22nd, 2011
12:17 pm
wow man
liberalefty
November 22nd, 2011
12:19 pm
i drive an ole mule.
Gwinnett Was Great
November 22nd, 2011
12:22 pm
I heard Obama colluded with all his Kenyan brothers and sisters in bring this mess to the Great State Of Georgia. We should keep electing the wise Republican Leaders of this state so they can fix our transportation issues with more highways.
Butch Cassidy
November 22nd, 2011
12:23 pm
Geez, what’s with all this “lane envy”? All you whiners, pull yourselves up by your bootstraps and take responsibility for your poor choces. Stop hating on the successful drivers who worked hard to get to use the HOT lanes. Besides, we can’t have the “job creators” stuck in traffic. Every minute they lose, is nother job lost! (sarcasm strongly intended).
justsaying
November 22nd, 2011
12:32 pm
Lets stop trying this crap and building new lanes that instantly clog and build true transit, light or heavy rail. Why do we insist on going backwards with this much commerce at stake? Get all these old stubborn stalwarts out of office and put in the newer thinking that will get it done, now. No more planning committees to plan more planning committees…get to building. Good grief, this is embarrassing on an international level
Charles
November 22nd, 2011
12:35 pm
WGA
Each day, thousands of vactioners travel through this area not knowing about the electronic device being required. So last year those same families with SUV’s and cars full of their kids going and coming from Disney World now jam the remaining lanes. They either do not know about the device or do not want to pay for one for vacation time travel.
+++++++
I had this same conversation with a friend while riding in the not-hot lane along I-85 this past weekend. To be honest, I think that unless you live in the metro ATL you have no clue about this lane and the signage doesn’t help at all. Unless you’re from the area how in the heck are you supposed to know what Peach Pass even means? It sounds like a name for the lane, not something you have to have on your friggin car in order to drive in the lane. By the way, as I was driving in steady but slow traffic I noticed that the HOT lane wasn’t going much faster. Found out that regardless of whether or not you pay, if a vehicle breaks down in the lane you still aren’t going anywhere fast. There was a disabled vehicle at one point and a fender bender a few miles up the road.
Rock Gaines
November 22nd, 2011
12:51 pm
Hey! Why were my comments pulled? I kept it clean. All I did was give folks ideas on how to handle the HOT situation.
commoncents
November 22nd, 2011
1:10 pm
Before the HOT lanes, I only remember seeing about 10% of the HOV lane users as being 2+ carpool vehicles. The rest were idiots swerving in and out of the lane like it was a passing lane, and not using the lane as intended. I guess the real drop in usage is from having an effective way to keep law breakers out.
Aside from that, I like the HOT lane. I don’t use it, but at least if I actually needed to get somewhere in a hurry it’s almost a guarantee that I could. Nothing is worse than sitting in traffic when you actually need to be somewhere else.
Have a problem with the HOT lane and the length of your commute? Don’t live somewhere so that it takes 45 minutes to get to work WITHOUT traffic, and then be upset that 500,000 other working people did the same thing. If you want the big yard and nicer house in the suburbs, be prepared to deal with the consequences. Otherwise, there are plenty of condos, townhomes and apartments with much shorter commutes
confused
November 22nd, 2011
1:13 pm
Maybe this is just so unthinkable that it shouldn’t even be mentioned, but have any of you I-85 commuters considered trying to create a 3-person carpool? You get to ride in the fast lane for free, you don’t have to drive every day, you save gas/car maintenance/the environment, and maybe even make some friends. No?
Sally Mc
November 22nd, 2011
1:19 pm
Most people in Gwinnett have less than 2 friends, so they are unable to make a 3 person carpool.
Dod
November 22nd, 2011
1:30 pm
The GDOT has proven its incompetence and corruption time and time again, and this project takes the cake. Its a wallet padding project full of corruption, from patent filings to forcing congestion to get people to may a tax. And they want me to vote for T-SPOST – NO WAY IN HELL!
These people have shown over and over again that they’re good at only one thing- stealing ideas from other cities (red lights at on ramps, HOT lanes) and applying them here, where they don’t work. If I could get anything near what I paid for my house I would take my PhD and the jobs it creates somewhere else- the brain drain is on Atlanta!
Base
November 22nd, 2011
1:35 pm
Quite whining and learn to live with it !
FUGDOT
November 22nd, 2011
1:39 pm
I love all the MARTA talk here. Wake up Atlanta, MARTA is a joke. Its an entity that runs in the red every year and only offers a transit solution to those that live within walking distance to a station either getting on or getting off. If you live or work away from the plus sign that is the rail system, you can’t use it effectively- I’d have to drive 40 minutes to a station, take a train, get off and catch a bus, then walk another mile to my building. That’s effective mass transportation!?!?!?
MARTA is no longer a solution to Atlanta’s traffic problems, it should have been developed in the 60’s and 70’s not when every part of the metro area is built on already. Atlanta is and will always be a auto-transit town, the idiodic ideas like this HOT lane are just money grabs by corrupt officials.
Cujo Bendi
November 22nd, 2011
1:39 pm
You commuters are SO STUPID. Why would you work 30 or more miles from where you live??? Mountain Man, you are a fool. Suburbs are disgusting. The suburbs are where all the garbage is. Laughing Cow has it exactly right.
Cujo Bendi
November 22nd, 2011
1:40 pm
Duh… Cars are the problem! Walk, bike, take transit.
FUGDOT
November 22nd, 2011
1:42 pm
Cujo- Because I don’t want to spend 400,000 on a 1000 sq ft ranch built in the 60s less than a mile from where I work. And because I don’t want to put my kids through the joke known as Dekalb County Schools. Are those good enough reasons for you?
curt
November 22nd, 2011
1:48 pm
First we paid to build I-85, Then we paid to widen it. Then we paid to build HOV lanes even though they knew they would have to when they got funds to widen it. Now we’re paying to build HOT lanes that will only benefit a few and by the DOT’s own admission they will not help traffic and might even make it worse. All of this while doing all they can to stop alternatives such as rail and more buses from happening while cities such as Charlotte and Denver leave us in the dust because they are doing just that.
Why? Because the highway contractors who took the Georgia DOT board to the Phoenician, a luxury resort in Arizona, a few years ago drive the bus on this one with well placed “political contributions”.
Remember a couple of years ago when we were poised to move forward with a comprehensive plan and C. W. Mathews, the largest paving contractor in the state, made a call to Sonny Purdue and got it stopped as the last minute? Politics is one thing but the Georgia DOT smells of corruption, lies and incompetence.
We need to be there when they hold hearings to expand this fiasco and make sure they don’t conceal the notification signs in inaccessible areas such as the center of cloverleafs where they’re impossible to read unless you want to stop in moving traffic and carry binoculars like they did in my area.
Z
November 22nd, 2011
1:48 pm
Republicans, they won’t come right out and tax you up front, but they will sure go behind your back and put in a sneaky fee/tax, called the HOT LANE. Its the republican way as it turns out. Republicans will tell you to your face, or at least on Faux News they won’t raise your taxes but all the while thinking of ways to place another Tax upon the unknowing, after all, their just sheep and they won’t know the difference. Vote smart come election time 2012, your vote could very well effect your way of life. Imagine that!
Jeffrey
November 22nd, 2011
1:52 pm
Kevin–If it wasn’t for the Federal Government, there would be no I-85 or I-75. There would be Buford Highway and Peachtree Industrial and your little fanny would be stuck in traffic for many hours more each day. Everyone just loves to pick on the Federal government for everything they touch. It’s just ridicilous! Is the Federal government perfect? No, far from it, but geez, give them a break and point the blame where the blame lies. L2223 actually explained this particular situation very well. Georgia’s Republican-led government loves to complain about the Feds all day, yet they always have their grubby hands out there ready for a hand-out.
HoHoHo
November 22nd, 2011
1:55 pm
Z,
You are way off topic here, but I’ll play…after the unmitigated disaster that is the administration of Barack Obama, I will likely NEVER vote for a democrat again. Thanks for playing, and wake up!
RB
November 22nd, 2011
1:57 pm
Other states that accepted monies for hot lanes actually built lanes, not confiscated lanes that had already been built. Georgia tried to do it as cheaply as possible and it has come back to bite them in the butt. Good going DOT.
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
1:58 pm
I don’t think MARTA was ever designed to get people out of their cars. Rather it was designed to allow people who can’t afford cars to get where they are going. Relieving congestion has never been top priority for MARTA.
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
2:00 pm
You got it right, RB – unfortunately now that we have taken the Fed’s money, we can’ just change it back to the way it was. They did try, though; that was why they tried to get a waiver to reinstate the 2-person HOV requirement.
Cujo Bendi
November 22nd, 2011
2:00 pm
Stinks to be you, FUGOT. Buy a townhouse, spend the extra cash to put your kids in a private school and/or small weekend home. Quality of life is about spending more time with your family and reducing stress. Not having a big yard you never use the you have to spend your weekends in the summer mowing. Since you’ll have more free time you can take you kids to the park.
Rob
November 22nd, 2011
2:04 pm
How about the Gwinnett citizens revolt by the bulk of us drive in the HOT lane without the silly Peachpass. What would they do? Try to enforce the bulk of the drivers with police pulling a mass amount of cars over for using the hot lane without paying??? I personally think a smart lawyer could actually have a good case to file suit against the state for making this lane fee based now since it was originally paid for by the citizens before it bacame a hot lane.
HoHoHo
November 22nd, 2011
2:05 pm
Clearly Cujo is a single person who hasn’t made it to the real world yet.
What next
November 22nd, 2011
2:23 pm
Oh, yea. Blame it on someone else. Come on, G-DOT, step up and take responsibility by admitting your stupid actions were a mistake.
Travis
November 22nd, 2011
2:28 pm
adding the ability for 2 people would put the lane in the same spot is was before the HOT lane. It was almost as crowded as the other lanes. I for one like the lane. Does it suck to pay, sure. But you have the choice. Most days it is 1.55 from start to finish. If 3.00 a day makes or breaks your budget carpool. Its not that difficult.
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
2:34 pm
“Republicans, they won’t come right out and tax you up front, but they will sure go behind your back”
Yes, I remember years ago when I lived in Cherokee County. The county sent out new valuations for your property because they said the State told them they had to. But, they told us, don’t contest the valuations, because they would adjust the millage rate downward so it would be “revenue neutral”. After the time period for contesting the valuations had expired, they said, ” oh, we just took a look at our county finances and we can’t afford to roll back the millage rates”. At the next election they campaigned on the platform of never having voted for a tax increase (although a big property tax increase had occurred). Yep, every single one was a Republican.
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
2:36 pm
“Since you’ll have more free time you can take you kids to the park.”
Are you talking about the park where all the homosexuals hang out?
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
2:37 pm
Or just the park where people get mugged?
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
2:38 pm
I’m sorry – I am thinking of Georgia Tech, where you get mugged or raped.
honested
November 22nd, 2011
2:40 pm
Rob,
Occupy Hot Lanes does seem to have promise.
Wouldn’t take but a couple of times.
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
2:40 pm
“adding the ability for 2 people would put the lane in the same spot is was before the HOT lane. It was almost as crowded as the other lanes”
Then it was clearly not being UNDERutilized, was it? Sounds like it was effective. Now those cars that were in that lane are sandwiched in with all the others in the remaining lanes. So this helps with congestion how?
db
November 22nd, 2011
2:49 pm
Why don’t the feds do something about the deficit and jobs and quit making laws.
WTH?
Vote them all out!
Travis
November 22nd, 2011
2:55 pm
“Then it was clearly not being UNDERutilized, was it? Sounds like it was effective. Now those cars that were in that lane are sandwiched in with all the others in the remaining lanes. So this helps with congestion how?”
Your missing the point. The USDOT said no to the grant money under the current terms. they said that our HOV lanes were not operating efficiently and they the USDOT required the move to 3 people. your right they ere not under utilized they were over utilized. Since you dont like paying 1.55 for moving traffic i also assume you would not like your taxes being raised to build a wider highway. Pick your poison, I use the lane daily and love it. I get home in 40 minutes which is faster than before and get to spend more time with my family which is much more valuable than 1.55.
Mike G
November 22nd, 2011
2:56 pm
The quality of life has gone progressively gone down in Gwinnett for the past 10 years. Look at your empty strip malls, look at the forclosure rates, look at the section 8 people infesting every corner. The traffic was absurd BEFORE the implenting of the HOT lanes. You should have gotten out of there years ago.
Bill Clinton
November 22nd, 2011
2:58 pm
When you sell your soul to the federal government, they own you for life! The funny part is, its your taxes that paid for it all! LOL!
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
3:04 pm
“The USDOT said no to the grant money under the current terms. they said that our HOV lanes were not operating efficiently and they the USDOT required the move to 3 people”
What grant money – the money we could have said we didn’t want? So you answer my question – it was not about improving congestion. And your answer says that people with the money like it – people without just have to put up with MORE congestion.
It was all about the money – just like Georgia 400.
Travis
November 22nd, 2011
3:11 pm
I would not put myself in the category of people with money. But I do value the time with my family so I choose to cut elsewhere. Again its $1.55. You can choose to carpool or take transit if you like. Or better yet you could have attended one of the 6 meetings that took place prior to the implementation which the GADOT said practically no one showed up to, instead of complaining like most others here only when it starts to affect them. So you had no interest in the project before, but now that it affects you you care?
Atlien
November 22nd, 2011
3:24 pm
People do realize that no one held a gun to their head when they bought a house 40 miles from their job??? Idiots
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
3:36 pm
“People do realize that no one held a gun to their head when they bought a house 40 miles from their job??? Idiots”
People who bought their houses 40 miles up 85 so their children would have a better education probably thought that idiots in the State government would take a lane away and make congestion even worse than it was. Moron.
Tommy
November 22nd, 2011
3:48 pm
Well yall will have plenty of time to think about all of this when you are sitting on I-85 today… nothing but time to think…….
Andrew
November 22nd, 2011
4:01 pm
First: Next time there is a vote on a ballot for toll lanes don’t vote yes. I think we said yes as a state around 80%. I can’t remember exactly when but there was a question on a ballot something like: Would you be opposed to replacing HOV lanes with toll lanes?
Second: I drive the other direction every day. I can say, with the exception of a few days, the traffic is the same as it has been for the last three years!
JB
November 22nd, 2011
4:01 pm
Kevin,
“A Federal initiative to enforce a behavior they feel is the best thing for us will end up costing us more (commute time, gas, productivity).”
Sorry, as much as you’d like to desperately try to link this to Obama (!? ha!), this was a STATE decision. Georgia has control over its roads/highways and they applied for the federal funding for the HOT lanes.
Sorry to crush your remarkably skewed world-view, but Republicans do stupid things too (see: 2000-2008, and the entire history of Georgia since 1980).
Gonzalez
November 22nd, 2011
4:11 pm
Que paletos redneck tonto
Gonzalez
November 22nd, 2011
4:14 pm
@Mountain Man-de la necedad de Montaña hillbilly mierda
honested
November 22nd, 2011
4:54 pm
With all these deeply introspective comments, how did we let the General Assembly get away with the lame TSPLOST, which oddly lacks the appropriate mass transit necessary to abate the traffic nightmare?
One lane does not a solution make.
Ole Guy
November 22nd, 2011
6:02 pm
PUBLIC TRANS…it’s the only way. Every major metro area…and many not so major…around the world has excellent bus/train networks throughout the regions and between those very regions. While Atlanta…long a self-promoter of “world class stature”…insists on the single-occupant vehicle as the predominant means of commuting, the rest of the world…(so-called) rich and the not-so rich; professionals and laborers alike…consider public transportation as simply a way of life. Every dollar which goes into these road projects is a mis-spent resource.
Madison
November 22nd, 2011
8:56 pm
Keep the hot lanes if the money goes to build light rail from lawrenceville to the Brookhaven station
netdragon
November 23rd, 2011
1:03 am
Jerome: This was a public-private partnership so I have no clue why you’re saying this doesn’t match a private project. That’s what it is
Saying otherwise just shows your ignorance. Where were you when they were discussing 3 people? I ultimately think it should go back to 2 people, but not after studying the long-term effects as the US Government discussed.
Martha Zoller
November 23rd, 2011
5:00 am
Another example of why we need to get the Federal government out of our lives. I attended a meeting in White County on Monday where GDOT and elected officials presented a plan for a road that had been on the books for 20 years. One person asked, “you told us a year ago you were ready to go and not one bit of dirt has been moved, what happened? The GDOT rep went into a litany of permits and federal hoops he was jumping through–my words, not his.
At least 4 times in the presentation he referred to this federal issue or that one to get funding.
Maybe we can build our roads without the feds.
In the report that came out in March identifying 100B in duplicated services, over 50B was in the Dept of Transportation.
Martha Zoller
Edward Ruffin
November 23rd, 2011
7:02 am
Regarding the feds disapproval of our HOT lane request: JUST ONE MORE REASON THAT MY SLOGAN MAKES SENSE…………..FEDS OUT OF DIXIE!
honested
November 23rd, 2011
7:58 am
martha,
Did you have a point?
Weren’t the Federal regulations in place when the dirt scratcher you mentioned bid for the contract?
Madison
November 23rd, 2011
9:12 am
Martha
We used to build roads without the Feds. They were called dirt roads or, in the affluent areas, tar and gravel.
Madison
November 23rd, 2011
9:22 am
Sure Ed, get the Feds out.
Forget maintenance of interstate highways, medicaid funding, education funding, economic development funding and watch you state taxes rise or watch the state default. For every dollar we Georgians send to Washington, we get $1.01 back, meaning the general federal operations are paid for by some other states. If you think Georgia can survive as a sovereign, think again.
Don
November 23rd, 2011
10:19 am
So, HOT lanes don’t help. What would? Widen I-85? Now, that’s funny! The HOV lane additions a few years ago widened the road to it’s maximum width. You’d have to lengthen every single overpass on the route to add another lane. You’d also have to start taking more land on one side or the other of the right of way. Neither of these are cheap!
Figure a billion or two to widen the road another lane in each direction from I-285 to the I-985 split. Since a highway lane can only carry 2000 vehicle per hour, that works out to $32 per vehicle per day. (over 20 years, figuring a 3 hour rush period, 260 work days per year at $1B capital, 0% cost of capital). Whose up for a $16 one way toll lane?
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
November 23rd, 2011
1:25 pm
@ FUGDOT
November 22nd, 2011
1:39 pm
Really, name a transit system in the world that operates in the black? And you are right, MARTA rail should have been build in the 70s. Let’s see why it wasn’t. Oh yeah, the white folks at the time were scared of “crime” aka black folks coming to rob them. Now look where all the crime is. Gwinnett and Cobb are always in the paper. WITHOUT MARTA!
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
November 23rd, 2011
1:27 pm
@ Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
1:58 pm
So I guess that’s why the main frame work of MARTA parallels the interstate system and doesn’t criss cross all through the hood huh? Or why the orginal plan would have took it into the suburbs, again, parallel to the highways. All of your comments have just been stupid!
Eli
November 26th, 2011
9:00 pm
Until you people are willing to pay more taxes then user-fee type “public” services will continue to proliferate. You can not have low taxes and more services without running a deficit.
The options are very clear: 1: pay more taxes; 2: pay taxes equal to or lower than the current rates and pay user fees (this has been the GOP’s preferred platform since the 80s); 3: pay less in taxes and rack up debt (this has been the GOP’s modus operandi since the 80s): 4: pay less in taxes, do not charge user fees and allow the infrastructure to deteriorate (which is the Tea Party platform).
Feds deny request to waive three-person car pool rule | Buid a Shed Yourself
November 28th, 2011
9:42 am
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Latest Car Transport Service News | ATS Transport
November 28th, 2011
1:44 pm
[...] Feds deny request to waive three-person car pool rule Help fund an EFFICIENT public transportation system, live closer to city and create a dense urban environment so that everything you need is in a decent distance and decreases the importance of car use, so that your job, childs school and etc are in … Read more on Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
CoolBreeze
November 28th, 2011
4:57 pm
This is simple…pay up or sit in traffic and shut up…