Feds deny request to waive three-person car pool rule
From the Associated Press this morning:
Federal authorities have denied Georgia’s request for a waiver to allow two-person carpools in a new toll system on a metro Atlanta freeway.
The state had requested the waiver after repeated traffic backups in the new toll lanes on Interstate 85 in parts of Gwinnett and DeKalb counties.
CBS Atlanta reports that U.S. Department of Transportation officials said they believe it’s too early to evaluate the effectiveness of the so-called HOT lanes. In a letter denying the request, federal authorities also said the toll rates and motorists not being familiar with the lanes may be contributing to their low use.
The waiver would have allowed more drivers to use the new lanes for free.
Without the waiver, vehicles must have three or more people to use them for free.
- By Jim Galloway, Political Insider
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179 comments Add your comment
rod
November 22nd, 2011
9:48 am
Kevin wait. Did BO decide to have some Hot A– Lanes or was that Georgia’s own doing. Typical we have become a country of blame someone else for our own faults.I have to agree on this issue only with Herman Cain. If you are in traffic and burning gas and time waiting to get to work or back home look in the mirror and blame your da-n self for electing the current officials in power in Georgia. The Feds didn’t say we must have Hot A– Lanes or Lexus Lanes!!!!
Rise Up!
November 22nd, 2011
9:48 am
At least the state legislature let the 400 toll sunset this year as they promised 20 years ago!
gimmeyourdollar
November 22nd, 2011
9:54 am
HUH??? They went and asked the Feds?? I thought most Georgians stuck by the mantra, (said with a deep southern drawl) “I don’t need no big ol’ gov-a -ment to tell me whattado”.
Goose
November 22nd, 2011
9:56 am
Now I have not had the “pleasure” to drive on 85 but the deal with the tolls and that it worked in other states is semi-right. I lived in California and the state actually sold two lanes to a private company and they (the private company) determine the price. Basically on the 91 you can pay upwards of $5 or more to use the toll lane on a Friday afternoon. Are they utilized? Yes. About as much as they are here that I can see on the news. They have traffic but again its using a electronic pass and they only get a break when three or more are in the vehicle. You dont however have to go online to change your status BEFORE your trip. WTH is that all about. Its BIG BROTHER if you ask me. It is a private company making the money and not the state in CA.
woodrow
November 22nd, 2011
9:56 am
HOT lanes and HOV lanes were a bad idea from the beginning. We should convert all the HOT lanes to train lines. And we should raise Ad Valorem taxes and gas taxes to pay for them. Let the polluting drivers of gas hogs pay for our transportation solutions.
Tez
November 22nd, 2011
9:58 am
Is anybody else tired of the battle between the inner-city and the suburbs? We need a legitimate transit system. When I travel to London, NY, or other major cities I never worry about traffic. Trains go everywhere.
gimmeyourdollar
November 22nd, 2011
9:59 am
Kevin— OMG– you’re talking about facts? Do you even know the facts yourself? The federal governemnt isn’t who rammed this HOT mess down our throats. Barack O didn’t have she to do with this. As painful as it is for you, I think you should look at Georgia state leaders for creating this problem
Hannity Listener and Great American
November 22nd, 2011
10:01 am
I heard Obama got the idea for HOT lanes from Bill Ayers during one of their secret meetings at a mosque within the Department of African American and Karl Marx Studies at Harvard.
Laughing Cow
November 22nd, 2011
10:01 am
Mountain Man-
That is the exact problem. This micro-cities are pulling money from every economy and making it harder to live for everyone.
You can’t live in a RURAL environment and want a CITY job, if you want that to even possibly work you live within the TRANSECT.
The area that puts you in the middle of both, not to be confused with the suburbs. you can’t have 4 acres and want the perks of the city job, with more revenue can capital concentrated you can attract more companies, students and better talent to an area that would be forward thinking and efficiently respond to the needs of the citizens by capitalizing on the rising gas prices and the inability to stomach the prices.
Its a reason why the city is the hub of any major state, its where business happens. To create micro-cities would be detrimental to the fabric of any city, and even more to the city of atlanta. Ppl need to break past this “southern” way of thinking and really push for something out of the box….
Widening roads is not the answer… Splitting resources is even worse, look at all the bus line we have in georgia and the still get you no where but 30 minutes outside of your destination in 2 hrs…
Jim Hall
November 22nd, 2011
10:02 am
The feds and GA GDOT people are seriously underbrained on this one. Why would anyone pay money to ride on a road that was paid for a long time ago? Answer: Only people who are not bright enough to realize the rest of us have been sold out for the benefit of just a few!!
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
10:03 am
The other thing I read is that HOV to HOT lane conversion (what happened here) should take place only if the HOV lane is UNDERUTILIZED, I hardly think that was the case. It really comes down to the money – they could take the Fed’s money, implement the system, then collect money in the future. A big win if you only care about the money and not the congestion – right, Nathan Deal and Sonny Perdue. Sort of like the 400 toll road. Just wait, you will see a lot of I-75 south converted to toll soon.
PK
November 22nd, 2011
10:05 am
I’m confused by this statement in the story “The state had requested the waiver after repeated traffic backups in the new toll lanes on Interstate 85 in parts of Gwinnett and DeKalb counties.” Why would you want to allow more cars “…after repeated traffic backups in the new toll lanes”…
Katz P Ajamas
November 22nd, 2011
10:05 am
If you don’t like your commute, move or get a different job. Consider that the 3000+ sq foot house with covenants(grass species and height, paint color, …), and 16 hours a week commuting might not yield the quality of life you would experience from an 800 sq foot apartment and 3 hours a week traveling to and from work.
gimmeyourdollar
November 22nd, 2011
10:06 am
I LOVE LOVE LOVE Richard’s idea. Too funny!!!!
findog
November 22nd, 2011
10:07 am
http://www.ibtta.org/files/PDFs/Managed%20Lane%20Engineering%20Analysis%20GA.pdf
Lane Components
Managed Lane facilities should include 12-foot travel lanes in all applications. In select locations, engineers could reduce lane widths to 11-foot due to right-of-way, or other constraints. Ideally lane width reductions should not be considered for lanes used by buses or trucks.
They reduced the I-85 lanes to 11-foot to add the HOV in the 1990’s
RM
November 22nd, 2011
10:07 am
The sad part about this whole Peach Pass stuff is our government at all levels is so hard up for more money to spend, they actually do something like this to raise revenues. The HOV lane was complete and already paid for by us, now because of some scheme we get to pay again.
Katie
November 22nd, 2011
10:08 am
It is absolutely beyond belief that we must ask the Federal government what we are allowed to do on our roads. Roads paid for and maintained by Georgia tax payers. Way to go Georgia lawmakers! I hope the $60million was worth it.
Joe
November 22nd, 2011
10:09 am
The HOT Lanes on I-85 were never about relieving congestion or solving any kind of traffic problem.
GDOT saw the HOV lane was backing up. That meant it had too much traffic in it. So they converted to HOT with help from a Federal Grant (which means the Fed’s have oversight as it’s their money), with the specific goal of reducing traffic counts in the lane.
Obviously this forces more traffic into the regular lanes, causing more congestion. The GDOT traffic folks KNEW this would happen. Of course they did.
The sole purpose of the conversion to HOT lanes is to aggravate people into buying Peach Passes and paying the tolls for more revenue. It’s nothing but a money grab, pure and simple, and the people at GDOT making the call to do this have known it all along.
What I would like to know is what is the additional revenue to be used for? Future improvements to I-85? If so, then maybe that’s okay. They are needed and there’s no other source of money for it. And what’s the net profit? I doubt the revenue is earmarked for anything other than disappearing into the general fund though.
Have they compared the additional revenue vs. the additional cost that the traveling public at large pays for the extra congestion (costs of additional gas wasted, lost productivity from workers sitting in traffic, etc.)? What’s the real gain from this? I’d bet money nobody has, and if they did, they see they weren’t really gaining anything in the big scheme of this.
If you want to relieve traffic on I-85, you need to build alternate routes and the outer loop at this point. Yes that means new highways and a way for all that pass through truck traffic to go around Atlanta farther out. There’s no way around it. We need to decide whether we want to do that, or decide to live with what we have and deal with the congestion, and move forward one way or another.
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
10:09 am
And people might ride a MARTA train if it got them where they wanted to go – like the Stadium or the DOme. I recently was in Washington and rode their train right from the airport to my hotel, no car needed. Atlanta was never set up like that, and our “after-the-fact” system is laughable (as well as an affront to ride). Ride MARTA trains and the bums shake you down for money, thugs play music from their boom boxes and try to “sell” you cd’s, and you live in fear for your life.
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
10:13 am
Katx – the trouble is that 800 square foot apartment costs the same as that 300 square foot house in the suburbs, and you have to pay for private schools to keep your kids out of APS. By the time you do the math, your quality of life, even with the 3 hour a day commute, is higher in the suburbs. Why do you think people live there?
Frontman
November 22nd, 2011
10:14 am
Katz,
The commute has been made worse by ill-advised activity by… wait for it… government (shocking, isn’t it). “If you don’t like your commute, move or get another job.” You forgot to add, “Or, government can steadily (or abruptly) make the commute so bad that you are forced to move AND get another job.”
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
10:14 am
3000 square foot house in the suburbs
Road Warrior
November 22nd, 2011
10:21 am
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
10:09 am
And people might ride a MARTA train if it got them where they wanted to go – like the Stadium or the DOme. I recently was in Washington and rode their train right from the airport to my hotel, no car needed. Atlanta was never set up like that, and our “after-the-fact” system is laughable (as well as an affront to ride). Ride MARTA trains and the bums shake you down for money, thugs play music from their boom boxes and try to “sell” you cd’s, and you live in fear for your life.
Your credibility just went out the window when you wrote “boom boxes”. You haven’t been on MARTA rail since the late 1980’s, eh?
I ride it at least twice a week. It’s no more dangerous than some of the other cities I’ve visited like New York, Toronto, Washington, San Francisco, Montreal or Chicago.
By the way, MARTA rail goes straight to the Georgia Dome. I don’t fear for my life because I remain alert and look and walk like I have somewhere to go. I don’t just shuffle along looking aimless – that could make you a mark in any major city.
Laughing Cow
November 22nd, 2011
10:23 am
Mountain Man-
I’m sure you make up the price difference in the amount of gas you spend, the maintenance on your car and etc.
Do you think Marta would be bad if it actually had funds to operate at the same level the Metro does in DC? Do you see how many ppl ride the Metro compared to Marta; you can clearly see they have more revenue and are able to protect ppl from the “woes” of DC, because we all know DC has vagrants everywhere.
You can say as much as you want about the schools in the APS, you would be right, but that can be attributed to things that are out of the scope of my argument.
You have to have revenue to improve, and riders to sustain.
catlady
November 22nd, 2011
10:24 am
Maybe they should convert 2 MORE lanes to HOT lanes, to force more people to use them! I know, don’t put the idea in anyone’s head!
Reverie
November 22nd, 2011
10:24 am
Sometimes, when something is counter-intuitive, it produces great results. Sometimes it is just stupid. This is just stupid. For all of the fans of this idea, hop on to I-85 on the weekend and count how many people used the lane. Meanwhile, everyone else squeezes into the other lanes. Social engineering is not the role or the right of the government. The people, having already paid for the lane, are now being denied the lane by the whim of the government. Drivers are so frustrated with the overreaching of authority there are moves afoot to simply take over the lane by flooding it. I applaud this peaceful exertion of the authority of the people over the excess of the government.
Reverie
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
10:25 am
Thanks findog – I remember them squeexing the lanes down to make the HOV lane. Then they converted the HOV lane to a HOT lane. But they did not add a new lane – the number of lanes is the same now as it was before the HOT lane opened. It would have been fine if they left the alternative open for HOV-2 usage. You still would have had to get the Peachpass.
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
10:32 am
“Your credibility just went out the window when you wrote “boom boxes”. You haven’t been on MARTA rail since the late 1980’s, eh? ”
I rode MARTA last year with my kids coming from the airport. Two persons entered the train and one started playing music on their “portable cd-playing machine” (what we used to call boom boxes, back in my day), while one of the persons walked up and down the aisle trying to sell people copies of the cd’s.
I go to Braves games and when I do, I drive my car, because riding the MARTA train is so difficult.
zeke
November 22nd, 2011
10:37 am
Just what the hell has the fed’l government limiting what Georgia can do with it’s roads! Scum feds are ruining all of the USA! Tell them to go to hell about this, schools, voting laws! They are vastly exceeding the Constitutions granted authority!!!!~!!!
DannyX
November 22nd, 2011
10:38 am
Hey Mountain Man, why don’t you just skip Atlanta and join the 200 people at a Gwinnett Braves game?
zeke
November 22nd, 2011
10:39 am
10-4 Mountain Man @ 9:42 am
gimmeyourdollar
November 22nd, 2011
10:40 am
Dear Katie– If you ask the Fed government for money (which Georgia did), then the Fed government has a right to say how the money they just gave you can be spent. if you don’t want the Feds to have any say, then don’t ask for the money in the first place. dayum
DannyX
November 22nd, 2011
10:42 am
Lol zeke, And yet it was Governor Deal begging the feds for 1 billion dollar strings attached Race to the Top education funds, it was Georgia begging for strings attached Express Lane funds.
Nabo Imbugo
November 22nd, 2011
10:43 am
If you don’t like it, then don’t use I-85.
findog
November 22nd, 2011
10:51 am
Mountain Man,
I have been all over the NAFTA region and have seen 3+HOV work in places like Boston and LAX to Riverside
Gerogia always does stuff halfway and/or on the cheap
I bet this will be used to get the people to vote for TSPLOST next year
I hope they realize they are being played and vote it down
Realist
November 22nd, 2011
10:54 am
Hey Mountain Man –
You made a generalization about how bad MARTA is (with boom boxes and folks selling CDs) based upon one ride a year ago?
Get with the times.
Dave
November 22nd, 2011
10:54 am
Nabo – sometimes you don’t have a choice (stupid comment)
fgfgfg
November 22nd, 2011
10:58 am
that lane was bought an paid for decades ago and now the government only wants to allow the rich to use it! so the rich can be at work on time , get promotions, etc. while the poor are continually held back. its time to occupy the HOT lanes!
Courtney
November 22nd, 2011
11:00 am
This incompetence is why no one wants government run health care. Idiots cannot do what is right if they tried.
Spade
November 22nd, 2011
11:02 am
So we all know this is about money used to line someone’s pockets. The Feds decided it was “too” early to conclude that the HOT lanes are ineffective. They hope that Gwinnettians will eventually get tired of sitting in traffic, and break down and double pay to use the lanes. I think we should continue to boycott the HOT lanes for however long it takes! Let the rich dummies pay back the $60 million they took for the stupid idea. It is the rich that should spend more money anyway. IF WE ALL STAND FIRM, then the Feds are bound to reverse their decision when they conclude that Georgians aren’t as dumb as they think we are. After all if it doesn’t make dollars, then it doesn’t make sense.
Next election, Nathan Deal has got to go!
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
11:03 am
Why would anyone vote for T-splost after the 400 debacle?
Realist – you are welcome to ride MARTA all you want. I ride it when it is convenient and makes sense (very rarely).
I ride other mass transit systems elsewhere in the world and love them.
DannyX
November 22nd, 2011
11:12 am
Maybe that 91 fwy Express Lane in California works because they also have commuter rail running right next to it.
The 91 Express Lane project is a product of very conservative Orange County. They were going to lead the way with privately financed toll lanes. Of course the project went bankrupt and required a government bailout.
Thomas
November 22nd, 2011
11:12 am
Things will run smoother when they convert to two lanes in each direction. The innermost lane will then be protected from the slowdown associated with the access points, while the outer lane will perfom about the same as the single HOT lane now. And, we will get DOUBLE THE REVENUE!!!!
Henry
November 22nd, 2011
11:13 am
The state may have been foolish to apply for the federal grant, but federal control based on that grant has got to end some time. We need to take a look at GDOT asphalt maintenance requirement for that lane and see how it works in with the federal grant requirement. If we just use more federal money to maintain the lane then it seems we will be stuck with federal control over the lane.
PR
November 22nd, 2011
11:26 am
Just more stupidty from Georgia’s leadership. HAPPINESS IS ATLANTA IN YOU REARVIEW MIRROR. So glad to be gone from a city that has got to be the WORST for mass transit. HOT lanes don’t serve any purpose other than to get more cars on the road. Want to solve the problem? Get real mass transit with light rail. MARTA is a freakin joke…it goes nowhere!
MARTA Rida
November 22nd, 2011
11:31 am
“Funny, Gwinnett denied MARTA for decades in favor of their cars and not are complaining when you have something that was suppose to benefit them. They have basically cut a full lane of traffic off. Traffic is horrible. That space could have been used to have MARTA heavy rail right down the middle, like on Ga 400. I bet those trains would have been a lot more full than the few cars that travel down the HOT lanes. Nice job!”
I must agree. If Gwinnett voted MARTA in 40 or even 15 years ago, then we are not having this conversation.
And to Mountain Man, for such a masculine sounding name, you sure are scared to ride MARTA. I ride it everyday with my wife and we never feel uncomfortable or fear for our safety. Like Road Warrior said, if people are aware then they are less likely to be victims of crime. If you pull your redneck out of the cow, then you can see that there is nothing wrong with mARTA
Mountain Man
November 22nd, 2011
11:35 am
They won’t let me carry my Glock on Marta!
Nabo Imbugo
November 22nd, 2011
11:36 am
Dave-
Get a job near your home, so you don’t have to use the highway at all! If that isn’t possible, then get a home near your job!
rob
November 22nd, 2011
11:38 am
a Priest a Rabbi and the HOT lanes walk into a bar, the bartender looks up and goes, what is this …some kind of joke?
Katie
November 22nd, 2011
11:41 am
gimmeyourdollar – That was kinda my point…