The GOP debate over Mormonism breaks into open
The Republican debate over Mormonism officially broke into the open this afternoon. From the Associated Press:
WASHINGTON — The pastor who introduced Texas Gov. Rick Perry at a conservative gathering Friday said rival presidential candidate Mitt Romney is not a Christian and is in a cult because he is a Mormon.
Robert Jeffress, senior pastor at First Baptist Church in Dallas, endorsed Perry at the Values Voters Summit, introducing him as “a proven leader, a true conservative, and a committed follower of Christ.”
After his remarks, Jeffress told reporters that Perry’s religion is different from Romney’s.
“Rick Perry’s a Christian. He’s an evangelical Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ,” Jeffress said. “Mitt Romney’s a good moral person, but he’s not a Christian. Mormonism is not Christianity. It has always been considered a cult by the mainstream of Christianity.”
Romney is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, whose members are commonly called Mormons.
Perry disavowed Jeffress’ statements. But they could hardly have been a surprise — Jeffress had said much the same thing four years ago. After the 2008 presidential election, in which Romney lost the Republican nomination to John McCain, the Religion Newswriters Association hosted a debate on this very topic.
The two participants were Jay Sekulow, a well-known metro Atlanta lawyer and Christian fundamentalist — and Jeffress.
The sponsor of the event was the DeMoss Group of Buckhead. Mark DeMoss served as Romney’s liaison to evangelicals in ’08, and is part of the current Romney campaign. Jeffress had the first word in the discussion:
Said Jeffress:
“I believe, first of all, that Christians ought to prefer Christians over non-Christians as their leaders.…A Christian politician who says his faith has no influence on his public policy is either a dishonest politician or a superficial Christian….
“The value of electing a Christian goes beyond the public policies that he or she may enact. We believe that a genuine Christian has a relationship with God, is indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God, is led by the spirit of God, and is uniquely favored by God. Even if that genuine believer does not embrace every position we hold important, we still believe that we make a grave mistake in underestimating the value of having a Christian in office….”
Then came Sekulow:
Said Sekulow:
”If Mitt Romney was running against Jimmy Carter, would you support Jimmy Carter because he’s a born-again Christian? I find that premise to be troubling.”
- By Jim Galloway, Political Insider
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191 comments Add your comment
td
October 8th, 2011
11:12 am
Independent voter
October 8th, 2011
9:13 am
I bet president Obama is sitting back laughing at the republican party argueing over religious.
That why I said the republican party is a party of clowns.
That why the republican party dont want to pass the job bill because of clowns they have in office.
You seem to forget the little fact that Harry Reid (Democratic majority leader in the Senate) refuses to bring Obama’s bill to a vote. He now says he is going to re write the bill and bring it up but he will not let the Obama bill be voted on. What about those facts?
honested
October 8th, 2011
11:12 am
td
Your consistency is predictable.
Drawing from the same worn, hackneyed examples of propaganda, and pretending that simply restating the nonsense gives it credibility.
midtownguy
October 8th, 2011
11:14 am
The government can and does create jobs, but they are not the primary job creators, small businesses are. But the I-hate-the-government types alway make the blanket and emphatic statement that government can’t create jobs (I remain puzzled as to how you can love your country but despise it governance at the same time). And if that self same “government” passes laws conducive to the expansion and growth of small businesses is that not the “government” creating jobs?
DannyX
October 8th, 2011
11:14 am
“…the government gets in the way of invention/creativeness and the private sector.”
Are you kidding? Our government has been a great partner with business. Government run universities invest big time research money that directly benefit our businesses. Agriculture, computer/technology, aerospace, pharmaceutical, military, the list goes on, all benefit from government involvement.
Where exactly has our government stifled our creativity td?
EdinAtlanta
October 8th, 2011
11:15 am
I’m pretty much an atheist but I think it’s kind of cool that Mormanism is AMERICAN. All religion is mythology, so why not have our own, American version which Mormanism certainly is?
td
October 8th, 2011
11:15 am
honested
October 8th, 2011
10:54 am
td
What does judeo/christian mythology have to do with success derived from the hard work of millions that had no interest in the nonsense of religion?
You seem to forget that it is the Judeo/Christian work ethic you are talking about. The libs and socialist and want the government to take care of people that do not want to work. They are the ones that file law suits and raise h3ll when conservatives attach work requirements to welfare checks.
td
October 8th, 2011
11:18 am
honested
October 8th, 2011
11:12 am
td
Your consistency is predictable.
Drawing from the same worn, hackneyed examples of propaganda, and pretending that simply restating the nonsense gives it credibility
My consistency is the truth and you socialist can not stand the truth because it stops your agenda of tearing down a capitalistic society and turning us into a European socialist economy.
Ol' Timer
October 8th, 2011
11:21 am
Let’s just cut to the chase. Whether it’s believing that Joseph Smith found some golden tablets that required special spectacles to read which became the book of Mormon or Jesus coming back on clouds of glory to take the redeemed home — this religious mindset is a situation that requires the setting aside of one’s rational side and embracing myth.
And to be quite honest, one myth is as good as the other.
“The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God. The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or not god. It neighter picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. . .” ~ Thomas Jefferson
And, then Mr. Jefferson went on to say, “. . . . but that all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matter of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge or affect their civil capacities.” ~Thomas Jefferson
Listen up folks, I don’t think anyone has a monopoly on the Almighty, not evern Southern Bapatists.
honested
October 8th, 2011
11:21 am
td
If it is a ‘judeo/christian work ethic’ explain the substantial civilization and construction of structures that had occurred around the world before the judeo goat herders invented their god?
suzanne henderson
October 8th, 2011
11:21 am
We feel that Mitt Romney is a good moral man in our society, but we as Christians also believe that Momonism is a Cult. We feel that if any man puts another so-called prophet above Jesus Christ would not make good decisions as a President because if that person is so deceived by Joseph Smith, then how could they make good decisions in our government. It says in the New Testament in the Book of Galations Chapter 1 Verses 8 that “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.” We did not need a new Church, the Church is Christ Body and whoever believes that Christ died for them and receives Christ as their Savior is considered a Saint in Christ and he is the head of the Church. We did not need Joseph Smith to give us another Gospel. We do not want a president in office that is that deceived. May God through His Son Jesus help our nation.
td
October 8th, 2011
11:25 am
DannyX
October 8th, 2011
11:14 am
How is that government doing in stifling the oil and coal industry right now? Bill Gates has stated that under the current government rules and regulations that Microsoft could not have became a company today. How long does it now take to get a new drug to market? How much is it costing you and I today because our doctors have to run unnecessary test and procedures because of the laws on suing people?
RustyHinges
October 8th, 2011
11:26 am
I have no problem with Rev. Jeffress stating his beliefs – that is the beauty of our free society. Given that, what does bother me as someone who is fiscally and socially right of center:
1) The GOP continues to cowtow to the far right evangelical sector as opposed to making its case to the vastly higher number of independents.
2) Rick Perry not disavowing Rev. Jeffress’ remarks IMMEDIATELY after being introduced by him. That action truly would have shown character over politics.
td
October 8th, 2011
11:30 am
honested
October 8th, 2011
11:21 am
What makes your humanistic (communist) religion better than the Christian religion? Show me a society lead by social humanism that has been successful? USSSR? When you can not bring a people together under one set of common core values and morals then that society will fail.
DannyX
October 8th, 2011
11:33 am
“We feel that if any man puts another so-called prophet above Jesus Christ would not make good decisions as a President…”
What about Thomas Jefferson? That verse you quoted didn’t make the Jefferson Bible. Jefferson didn’t really believe in angels according to his Bible. Jefferson took out Easter.
Suzanne, was Jefferson a good president? He probably couldn’t get elected today, can you imagine Bill O’Reilly going off on Jefferson with a “WAR ON EASTER” tirade.
Could you say there is no Easter and get elected these days?
Buck Hayek
October 8th, 2011
11:38 am
I have listened to conservative Christians yammer about how the Constitution was based on Judeo-Christianity.
But I can only find slavery as an example of Judeo-Christian philosophy in the original Constitution. Nothing else.
Give me that Secular Humanist Bill of Rights anytime!
honested
October 8th, 2011
11:38 am
td
There you go again.
Nobody said anything about ‘communism’, I just asked you about the massive development of civilizations around the world before judeo goat herders invented the god you seem to credit for everything that has happened since.
Ethics have nothing to do with religion. Work ethic has much more to do with survival.
DannyX
October 8th, 2011
11:45 am
“How is that government doing in stifling the oil and coal industry right now?”
Last I checked oil prices are down and production is up, highest level since 2003.
Our technology and creativity lead the world.
Our doctors in Georgia are now protected against frivolous lawsuits. We already had tort reform.
Where do you get these tired old talking points you can never back up td?
Disgusted Republican
October 8th, 2011
11:45 am
Oh some of you Baptist Preachers! You bad mouth Mormons as a cult and some of you even badmouth Masons as being heretics and wild eyed sinners. The nutty part is that a lot of Baptists are Masons (including Deacons and Pastors). Can’t understand how you reconcile that. You also make folks pledge not to drink when they join your churches and yet about 70 percent of adult Baptists are closet drinkers. And you are worried about Mormons destroying the country because of what they profess to believe? Maybe you should spend a little more time practicing the actual teachings of Jesus Christ (especially as they apply to your attitude toward your fellow man) instead of playing “gotcha” partisan politics and pointing fingers at others who may not exactly spout the exact same “doctrine of man” as you do. Right now our country is in deep trouble and unless we pull together we are going into the dust bin of history. We need to get real and choose someone who will actually take the necessary steps to get us out of this economic mess! And, no, I am not a Mormon. And yes, I am a Christian!
midtownguy
October 8th, 2011
11:49 am
Nothing in the Bible instructs it’s followers to celebrate Christmas or Easter in any special way. Those are not Christian holidays, they are Catholic holidays invented by the early church to keep followers away from the winter and spring pagan festivals. No true fundamentalist Christian would celebrate either of those “holidays.” The fact that Baptist have large Christmas and Easter celebrations is just them bowing to the Pope in Rome.
Joe
October 8th, 2011
11:51 am
Church and State are separate entities in this country – we don’t need to judge candidates by their religion, only by their previous actions. Mitt Romney has done a substantial amount of good, so I see no reason why we shouldn’t vote for him just because he is Mormon.
Buck Hayek
October 8th, 2011
11:54 am
Sean Hannity repeats the same three lies over and over again.
One of them is “We can’t drill in the US anymore!”
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-09-15/markets/30158293_1_crude-oil-permian-lrg
(Goldman says we will double oil production under Obama and become #1 in the world)
td
October 8th, 2011
11:56 am
DannyX
October 8th, 2011
11:45 am
Gas prices were $1:81 per gallon when Obama took office, what are they now? Go ask all those out of work oil workers in LA about government interference.
Ol' Timer
October 8th, 2011
11:58 am
The Southern Baptist preacher that was deriding Mormonism as a cult needs to take a time out. The Southern Baptist Convention has seen a declining number of baptisms and church membership over the past several years and the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints has become the fastest growing religious movement in the U.S, if not the world.
Could it be the judgemental and negative approach taken by the SBC on so many subjects is not resonating with the American people, while the family focus and upbeat message of the LDS is being warmly received.
This could be a teachable moment if the SBC would take a good look. . . .nah! They have a franchise on salvation and if you want to get to heaven you’ve got to ride their train.
Sad. Ignorant, too.
Buck Hayek
October 8th, 2011
12:01 pm
td-
Crude oil peaked at $147/bbl in 2008.
It is $82/bbl now.
You cherry picked the depth of the Bush Depression when GDP was -8.9%.
td
October 8th, 2011
12:05 pm
honested
October 8th, 2011
11:38 am
You chose to not answer my question? I will ask one more time. Name a successful civilization that prescribed to secular humanism?
ramguy68
October 8th, 2011
12:05 pm
Oh those wacky Repubs…always drinking the haterade!
td
October 8th, 2011
12:08 pm
Buck Hayek
October 8th, 2011
12:01 pm
td-
Crude oil peaked at $147/bbl in 2008.
It is $82/bbl now.
You cherry picked the depth of the Bush Depression when GDP was -8.9%.
I am so glad that you think Bush had the amount of power to cause a world wide depression. If prices for oil are so low now then why is gas prices still so high? Is it not a fact that gas prices were $1.81 the day Bush left office?
Clinton "Skeet" Tyree
October 8th, 2011
12:11 pm
It’s kinda funny to me that folks argue about religion: my myth is better than your myth.
My guess is when these folks get to heaven, if there is a heaven, there’s going to be two great surprises: One, some folks they thought was going to be there ain’t going to be there, and, two, some people they didn’t think was going to make the cut got in.
Buck Hayek
October 8th, 2011
12:13 pm
td
Oil fell to $33/bbl at year end of 2008 so I guess $1.81 is in line. The economy was on its death bed and commodities follow.
And the United States is the best example of a Secular Humanist success. Our Constitution demands Secularism in the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause.
Clinton "Skeet" Tyree
October 8th, 2011
12:14 pm
@td — the price of gasoline has more to do with the speculators like the Koch Brothers than the president or regulations or any other factor.
Bootnewt
October 8th, 2011
12:30 pm
Herman Cain better watch out! People of literalist/fundamentalist Rev. Jeffress’ ilk will comment that Cain shouldn’t be elected President because he suffers from the “the curse of Ham.”….you know the Bible story from Genesis where Ham mocked his father Noah’s drunken nakedness on the Ark and Noah pronounced a curse of Blackness on the descendents of Ham that populated the African continent after the Great Flood.
suzanne henderson
October 8th, 2011
12:33 pm
To DannyX, If my husband and I know ahead of time what a candidate believes or does not believe and if it does not match up with Scripture as God has taught us, we would not vote for that person and that is why we did not vote in the last election. My husband and I studied with the Mormon Church for a six week study course when we were in our early 20’s and we have been married now for 53 years, so we go way back. We both come from different Church backgrounds, but now we both believe the same that Christ is the Church and we follow Him Only. We are still learning and we left the so-called Church establishment 20 years ago and never regretted it. My husband leads Bible Studies and no money is involved with what we do. We follow Christ daily and do not practice Sin as Sin is defined in Scripture. We believe that Christ is the Church and the Mormons teach that when the apostles died that the Church died and when Christ is the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OR LORDS, how can Joseph Smith come along and start a new Church when Jesus said the Upon this Rock, I shall build my Church and the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. Christ Church never failed and Joseph Smith said he seen an angel. Well in Galations, it does say that if a Angel comes to you and teaches another Gospel of which Joseph Smith did teach another Gospel and it was not the Gospel that we already knew in the first place. We all must Study the Scripture and know what it teaches and you will be held responsible for what you tell or teach others. It says in Acts Chapter 17 referring to Apostle Paul’s great Sermon on Mar’s Hill, Verses 23-25. “For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of Heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men’s hands as though he needed anything, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;” God through Jesus Christ now lives in our Hearts and we need none to teach you but the Holy Spirit in I John Chapter 2 Verses 26-27. Will the real Church please stand up!! For the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORD is the ONLY CHURCH and we do not have to call ourselves any denomination such as Presbyterian, Catholic, Baptist etc., for we are Christans. Praise His Holy Name. That says it all. May God Help America.
TomPaine
October 8th, 2011
12:41 pm
If Jesus came back today, he would be angry at those of you who claim to speak on your behalf. Some of you expecting to spend eternity in a heavenly place may be in for a surprise. A very, very warm surprise.
Robert Jeffress’s Bizarre and Unbiblical Beliefs | The French Revolution
October 8th, 2011
12:55 pm
[...] not make them a believer.In a 2008 debate with Jay Sekulow he even went so far as to declare that he’d vote for a pro-choice Christian over a pro-life Mormon in a Republican primary because of the “eternal consequences” which could lead people [...]
Big Daddy
October 8th, 2011
12:57 pm
Jesus is magic! Momons believe in the angel Moroni and speaking their “gospel” into a hat. Well, they don’t really believe that. Not the smart ones, anyway.
Jenzen
October 8th, 2011
1:16 pm
Pardon my pun but thand God for Galloway and his vapid articles. Otherwise I’d be hard-pressed to keep up with the atheistic and secular viewpoints of other brain-dead bloggers. Boy, am I glad that I found out it wasn’t a Supreme Being that created the universe; it was only a quick snap of the fingers and POOF! there it was. Hmmmm. Wonder who or what “snapped his/her/its finergs”?
Jenzen
October 8th, 2011
1:18 pm
Stop frothing at the mouth people, I meant “FINGERS”
John K
October 8th, 2011
1:28 pm
The GOP let religion get completely entrenched in their party, and this is what you get. They want a theocracy, but everyone is too stupid to realize they each want their particular belief to call the shots.
CH
October 8th, 2011
1:32 pm
Thank you to the “Mormons” who have responded in such a respectful manner. Truly, as the BIBLE says, “By their fruits ye shall know them.”
Mama Says
October 8th, 2011
1:40 pm
Hey Jim did you do an article on the good Rev. Wright preaching that The USA was satan ? if u did I missed it.
The fact is that the Republican party votes it’s belief system JUST LIKE THE DEMOCRATS. You libs only have a problem when it is someone else who believes differently. You never see yourselves as the group who is thinking wrong or differen,t it’s only the other guy.
Vote for who you want and we willl vote for who we want. This crap about it will not be Romney or it will not be Cain is only your own standard of bias thining. You judge all conservatives through the prisim of your concept of w we are, based on your own beliefs—-therefore you are what you say you hate, judemental, double standard loons who are totally inconsiderate for any thought except your own.
VOTE HERMAN CAIN 2012
cartoon
October 8th, 2011
1:49 pm
The point of Mormonism is that Jesus Christ’s ministry and message didn’t end on the cross, but that he had a newer different message in the new world.
Sure.
td
October 8th, 2011
1:58 pm
Clinton “Skeet” Tyree
October 8th, 2011
12:14 pm
@td — the price of gasoline has more to do with the speculators like the Koch Brothers than the president or regulations or any other factor.
The Koch brothers own real companies like Georgia Pacific. George Sorros is a speculator. Has not been proven yet but there are rumors that he made $5 or $6 billion right by betting against the US and the downgrade of the bond funds.
td
October 8th, 2011
2:02 pm
Buck Hayek
October 8th, 2011
12:13 pm
td
Oil fell to $33/bbl at year end of 2008 so I guess $1.81 is in line. The economy was on its death bed and commodities follow.
And the United States is the best example of a Secular Humanist success. Our Constitution demands Secularism in the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause.
I read this and spit my drink out laughing so hard. This is what you socialist with your ACLU lapdogs in tow want everyone to think. You really need to go do a little history reading about how much religion has been involved with development of our country the past 250 years.
Kendall
October 8th, 2011
2:47 pm
As a Mormon, I am through with the Republican Party. Why should I be part of a party where a substantial majority hates me? I am asking my fellow Mormons do do the same.
Wow!!!!!
October 8th, 2011
2:58 pm
I thought conservatives loved everyone……. Isn’t that what the Lord said instead of making them your enemy???!!!!!!!! I’m just saying!!!!!!
Sloan
October 8th, 2011
3:02 pm
Mormons may believe they are Christians. However, they are not part of the Reformed Protestant Church that claims denominations like Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Episcopalians, etc.
For those liberals who claim that Christians are just haters, perhaps it is the truth that bothers you so much. God’s truth is not always a popular thing, and it certainly isn’t rooted in our secular culture of “tolerance at any cost” that is at the core of liberal thought.
I will vote for Romney over Obama. But not because of his religious beliefs. I will vote for an equally conservative, effective leader who is a Christian over Mr. Romney.
Lin in Cobb
October 8th, 2011
3:03 pm
We would be much better off, if all government leaders on all levels were completely secular. Romney should handle the criticism of his religion the same way John Kennedy handled the criticism of his religion.
Wow!!!!!
October 8th, 2011
3:12 pm
First Muslims, now Mormons!!!!! Christians are acting like the real terrorists!!!!!! They don’t like anyone that’s not Christian. Sounds like the Nazis to me.
double
October 8th, 2011
3:22 pm
Centrist wrong again Galloway will go back to Cain.
Swede Atlanta
October 8th, 2011
3:36 pm
The problem I have with Jeffress is his assertion that Mitt Romney is not a Christian but Rick Perry is.
In my mind neither are. Christ called us to care for the least among us. He called us to compassion.
I doubt Christ would condone the actions of Romney’s companies to displace thousands of American workers in lieu of cheaper labor in China. He wouldn’t welcome Romney’s elitist station in life with his millions and millions in the bank. What has he, as opposed to Carter and Clinton done to help the ranks of the poor, the sick, the disenfranchised?
As for Perry, the fact he has absolutely no problem sleeping at night with the knowledge that he allowed one or more innocent convicts go to their deaths tells me he is not a Christian. His economic policies have resulted in Texas having significant poverty. They have made Texas one of the worst states for people without health insurance. I could go on and on.
So this is a bit of cat-calling. Neither one is a Christian.