The GOP debate over Mormonism breaks into open
The Republican debate over Mormonism officially broke into the open this afternoon. From the Associated Press:
WASHINGTON — The pastor who introduced Texas Gov. Rick Perry at a conservative gathering Friday said rival presidential candidate Mitt Romney is not a Christian and is in a cult because he is a Mormon.
Robert Jeffress, senior pastor at First Baptist Church in Dallas, endorsed Perry at the Values Voters Summit, introducing him as “a proven leader, a true conservative, and a committed follower of Christ.”
After his remarks, Jeffress told reporters that Perry’s religion is different from Romney’s.
“Rick Perry’s a Christian. He’s an evangelical Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ,” Jeffress said. “Mitt Romney’s a good moral person, but he’s not a Christian. Mormonism is not Christianity. It has always been considered a cult by the mainstream of Christianity.”
Romney is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, whose members are commonly called Mormons.
Perry disavowed Jeffress’ statements. But they could hardly have been a surprise — Jeffress had said much the same thing four years ago. After the 2008 presidential election, in which Romney lost the Republican nomination to John McCain, the Religion Newswriters Association hosted a debate on this very topic.
The two participants were Jay Sekulow, a well-known metro Atlanta lawyer and Christian fundamentalist — and Jeffress.
The sponsor of the event was the DeMoss Group of Buckhead. Mark DeMoss served as Romney’s liaison to evangelicals in ’08, and is part of the current Romney campaign. Jeffress had the first word in the discussion:
Said Jeffress:
“I believe, first of all, that Christians ought to prefer Christians over non-Christians as their leaders.…A Christian politician who says his faith has no influence on his public policy is either a dishonest politician or a superficial Christian….
“The value of electing a Christian goes beyond the public policies that he or she may enact. We believe that a genuine Christian has a relationship with God, is indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God, is led by the spirit of God, and is uniquely favored by God. Even if that genuine believer does not embrace every position we hold important, we still believe that we make a grave mistake in underestimating the value of having a Christian in office….”
Then came Sekulow:
Said Sekulow:
”If Mitt Romney was running against Jimmy Carter, would you support Jimmy Carter because he’s a born-again Christian? I find that premise to be troubling.”
- By Jim Galloway, Political Insider
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191 comments Add your comment
fire eater
October 8th, 2011
4:48 am
Immigration is the only issue that the GOP needs to be concerned with. Which of the contenders will raise up the banner bravely carried by Georgia, Alabama and a few others to drive the illegal aliens from the land?
Rumors that the next debates have fallen under the evil influence of NY Mayor Bloomberg and his kind…no mention of “divisive” issues (read IMMIGRATION, GUNS) will be allowed and the candidates will be expected to drone on about “the economy.”
What if Rep. Bachmann rudely blurts out that that post-1965 immigrants are to blame for America’s economic crisis and refuses to shut up? Fortune favors the bold, Congresswoman.
Buckhead Boy
October 8th, 2011
5:02 am
First Century mythology opposed to Nineteenth Century mythology! A disgusting necessity, I suppose, to engage in this sort of thing until the Republican Party can sufficiently suppress the vote to insure its perpetual election. Then we can institute an absolute plutocracy, with public office going to the highest bidder; and any and all of this distasteful pandering to the unwashed masses may be eliminated. We’re almost there. Just a little more of this.
Smoke
October 8th, 2011
5:34 am
Obama got a “free pass” on Rev. Wright by the MSM? Really?
Skip
October 8th, 2011
5:51 am
Why are the republicans trying so hard to give Obama four more years?
Vernon
October 8th, 2011
6:22 am
One would have to be a “fool” to believe the doctrines of the Mormon church. We have one fool in the white house now and don’t need another one. It’s a pure cult if there ever was one. Finally, someone brings Romneys religion to the forefront.
Ol' Timer
October 8th, 2011
6:37 am
I wondered how long it would be before the Southern Baptists got their two cents worth into the campaign. These ol’ boys are so narrow minded they can see through a keyhole with both eyes and they’re confounded as to why their membership numbers are decreasing like Michelle Bachmann’s poll numbers.
Perry knew that by associating with this group he ran the risk of being splashed on by their religious intolerance, but was compelled to pander to them anyway. So he gets what he got — a distraction at a time when his campaign is imploding.
First, you can’t carry on a rational discussion with these guys because they’re irrational.
Reinhold Niebuhr hit the nail on the head when he said, “The tendency to claim God as an ally for our partisan values and ends is the source of all religious fanaticism.” And, fanatics they are.
Mitt Romney may be a Mormon, but he’s intelligent, articulate, indepentent and has worked a private sector job unlike Perry who has fed at the public trough for 27 years.
The problem is Mitt is too independent. The oligarchs want someone they can control, so look for massive amounts of money to shift to Perry and watch his numbers climb.
Travis McGee
October 8th, 2011
6:42 am
“A cult is a religious group with no political power.” ~Thomas Wolfe
Big Ern
October 8th, 2011
6:53 am
So what if he’s mormon? There’s only one candidate for President whose father was a polygamist and he’s currently in the White House.
seamus
October 8th, 2011
7:05 am
My God’s bigger then your God.
MrTy
October 8th, 2011
7:21 am
As an Episcopalian and married to a member of the LDS church, I have truly dreaded this type of story because the amount of ignorance to be exhibited by (1) the media, (2) some Christians and (3) some Mormons (to use the vernacular) is truly going to be something to witness.
While the probability of me joining the LDS Church is about the same as me finding Russell’s Teapot, I have great respect for the culture and principals Mormons that I know live by. It works for them and I am happy to have Mormon friends and a truly wonderful LDS wife.
While not decided as of yet on who to support in the coming election, I believe Mitt Romney to be a capable leader, which he seems to have proven in his past endeavors. Based on what I know, it is my opinion Mitt Romney would be a far better leader than Mr. Obama, a good an whose leadership skills for his current position are sorely lacking to the detriment of our nation.
While admonishing the media is a fairly vain exercise in futility, I do wish the more emotional sides of the religious parties to this debate would contemplate the qualities of tolerance and understanding that a humble carpenter from Nazareth desperately tried to teach.
I might as well keep looking for the teapot…
MrTy
October 8th, 2011
7:26 am
Ah, let me clarify my statement to say “(2) some mainstream Christians.” Mormons profess to follow the teachings of Christ, which, according to Jesus’ membership rules, is all that was required. And “Mr. Obama, a good man whose…”
Brian
October 8th, 2011
7:42 am
A Mormon president is not right for Georgia. First, Mormons don’t consume caffeine which means they don’t drink Coke. Second, they meet for three hours on Sunday which means that they don’t watch enough football. Finally, Mormons who have been to the temple wear special underwear which is more than most GOP voters wear under their britches.
Quit wasting your time trying to out-Christian one another. “Values” voters are manipulated by the GOP every cycle and get tricked into voting against their own best interests and the best interests of their communities by the GOP establishment.
Shep
October 8th, 2011
7:47 am
Thanks Seymourhiney , I agree with you completely, All religion is a cult and a crutch. If more Americans believed in facts and science and not religous crap, putting thier faith in some magical “Jesus” then America would not be headed down the crapper. I cracks me up all these people who think that their life is in God’s hands. Wake up people, YOU are in control of your life and destiney. At the end you are going to die and there is nothing you can do to change that.
Truth-O-Meter
October 8th, 2011
8:06 am
Will someone make the Republicans go away?
Since the 2008 campaign and election they have been engaged in one long temper tantrum.
• Obama was soft on defense. He killed Bin Laden and they still complained.
• Obama was not born in the USA (in fact I am sure some doubted that he was ever born, period). He produced the long form birth certificate and they marveled at what took so long and how did they know if it were real.
• Obama is a communist. Well so was Martin Luther King, Jr. and everybody else Republicans want to discredit.
• Obama was going to take away all of the guns. Obama endorsed the right of “tea party members” to bring guns to rallies.
• “Obama, where are the jobs.” When he proposes a jobs bill they say he’s playing politics. Oh, and they say, “No, I don’t like it.” (Just like my two-year old granddaughter!)
• Obama is not a Christian, only they are. Well, the Bible says, “ If you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart you shall be saved.” It makes one wonder where these folks go to church and Bible study. Worse yet, Rev. Franklin Graham got in on the circus. Just think if his father, Rev. Billy Graham, had looked down on the throngs who came to Christ during his years of crusades and declared, “They say they are Christians, but I don’t know, I take them at their word.” What would be the point of evangelizing?
• Obama is trying to wreck the country. “Our goal is to make sure that Obama is a one term president.” – Sen. Mitch McConnell. Translated, we don’t care who gets hurt or who loses his job as long as Obama loses his job.
• Obama owns the economy now; Bush is no longer President so don’t give Bush credit or blame for the jobless problems or economic downturn. However, when Osama Bin Laden was killed, they were too happy to point out that Bush deserved credit for what he did to fight terrorism while in office.
• The Tea Party movement was a grassroots movement because people were feed up with Washington. Yet, the Occupy Wall Street, etc.….movement is a mob.
• Obama can’t create jobs, but Republicans can. Yet, Herman Cain said if you are out of work it’s your own fault. Now do you think someone who blames you for being out of work is going to work to create jobs for you?
If they win the 2012 election they will call for calm and cooperation. Well, I won’t forget what a hell hole they have made all of our lives for the last three years.
pathetic
October 8th, 2011
8:19 am
Well, the country managed to elect a muslim masqerading as a Christian who holds a Jewish seder so I am sure no one will stress about the Mormon issue. However, I do think the pastor may be exaggerating on Perry’s faith. Clearly, he is not an evangelical or he would have said a different answer to the question of whether romney is in a cult.
Give me a break
October 8th, 2011
8:30 am
Republicans can’t even agree within their own party “who is a Christian” how can they ever solve the nations problems which are more complex? I wonder what Jesus would say?
November 6, 2012
October 8th, 2011
8:37 am
You know, folks, really the only thing that’s important in this election to defeat the muslim, non-american socialist is that we elect a good, conservative person who strongly believes in America and will try to put policies in to protect our economy, our borders and our fight against those who want to destroy us. Mitt Romney is, above all else “a good person” with very good skills, and that’s not to say I’ll vote for him; however, he’s got to give me a good reason “Not to vote for him”. Watch out for “Newt”,do not overlook him, he’s probably the smartest candidate among the nine vying for the nomination and has a proven record of accomplishments. Perry, Cain, Bachmann, Paul, Santorum, et al are good people also, but are just not ready (or maybe I should say, the American People are not ready for them). Look out for someone yet unannounced
sparta_bubba
October 8th, 2011
8:48 am
So who’s surprised that the GOP stands for God’s Only People and by their definition that is white, straight, Southern Baptists.. No one else need apply. Herman and Mitt you’re wasting your time and somebody’s money.
sparta_bubba
October 8th, 2011
8:55 am
Truth-O-Meter well said!!!!
If you look up hypocrit in the dictionary, you will find a picture of a Republican.
mr. mack
October 8th, 2011
9:13 am
goverment and televison are blocking out ron paul now christians are blocking out ron paul and his views. Speaking about holding up the constitution- there is no better canidate then ron paul. I can promise you that a lot of so call christians will vote for romeny or perry only because they look like a president, sound like a christian and have some good views, but still keeping goverment in control. That is the plan of the goverment to keep someone in office that will not destroy there plan totally as ron paul…
America will only get what we vote for… When samuel advised the people of old that God is there king and to serve him the people wanted a king that was according to what they wanted, the lord told them that this king will make them slaves and bring pain to them… the people did not care because the king sound good and looked nice and was there relative(Well in this case today a self claim christian), so the Lord gave the people what they wanted, i can promise you if they would have turned to him he would have given them another chance…. Tell me didnt we-america choose obama including we-christians, so we got what we ask for, if we choose romney then we will get what we ask for, america we want to have more liberty and rise from unemployment and away from the goverment but I can promise you if we dont choose ron paul in his views then how can that be accomplish with a temporary soulution- he has been the only one that has given us a full scale solution to our problems, everyone else only has given us a temporary fix..(listen to the debates in there plans for yourself) do america really want freedom or a temporary fix??..
Independent voter
October 8th, 2011
9:13 am
I bet president Obama is sitting back laughing at the republican party argueing over religious.
That why I said the republican party is a party of clowns.
That why the republican party dont want to pass the job bill because of clowns they have in office.
redneckbluedog
October 8th, 2011
9:31 am
It’s not the weirdness nor the secrecy of Mormonism that makes me not like it, nor even the Planet Kolob….it’s the fact they think Mormons are the only ones that truly receive providence….That is VERY DIVISIVE in itself…It excludes Jews AND Christians…!!!!!
Name (required)
October 8th, 2011
9:32 am
They’re all cults anyway….why does it matter which one you subscribe to?
thewindwhistler
October 8th, 2011
9:33 am
I have a cousin who is a Mormon[Bishop]‘ The Mormons do not interact with other faiths, atleast I have never seen it. That in itself puts them well outside the mainstream of Christianity. Although they fervently claim to be stong followers of Jesus, they do not believe in the cross that Jesus was crucified on. So, I say they are more a isolated religious group, not a cult.
LizBeth
October 8th, 2011
9:38 am
Ooooo! Romney just became the Republican primaries’ boogeyman. “We can’t control him, so don’t vote for him. He’s scary. Almost scarier than Obama!” Of course, after the primaries, it will be back to the same-o, same-o fear tactics about Obama.
adam larson
October 8th, 2011
9:55 am
I would support a Mormon for President and can’t stand most of the foolishness from the Religious Right. That being said, the reason Mormonism is labeled a cult is because it uses the same terminology as Christianity (God, Jesus, baptism, etc.) but fundamentally and dramatically changed the Biblical message:
Joseph Smith taught that man could progress toward a state of godhood, becoming co-equal with God (Christianity teaches that man is created by God, always to be subordinate)
Smith taught that God was indeed once a man, and that God did not create out of nothing
Brigham Young taught that Adam became God, and that he returned to the Earth to father Jesus with Mary
And current LDS members believe God the Father has a wife that together birthed humanity through a sexual union.
Now perhaps they are completely right and the Bible is wrong. I have no problem with accepting that. But it is a completely different religion altogether, and shouldn’t be confused with traditional Christianity because of shared terms.
Bootnewt
October 8th, 2011
9:56 am
The only religious test I would set would be, “Does the candidate believe in the immediate coming of the Apocalypse?” Sarah Palin and bunch would have us do anything to bring war and destruction on the earth so that Jesus can come back asap.
ha
October 8th, 2011
10:03 am
Debate? Mormons are nuts and I would not vote for one on a bet.
midtownguy
October 8th, 2011
10:10 am
When it comes right down to it, the Republicans will not nominate a black man or a non-fundamentalist christian, which leaves them with Perry. Perry on the ballot will assure four more years of Obama. He is too far right, and carries way too much baggage for mainstream outside-the-bible-belt America.
Turqoise Brisket
October 8th, 2011
10:12 am
Mary wasn’t a virgin. It’s the greatest fib ever told to keep Joseph from gettin’ his arse whooped.
MB
October 8th, 2011
10:12 am
Mormonism is a cult. If Romney wins the nomination then I support him in the general election; however, he will not be the best candidate to beat Obama. While religion is not the only issue to base support for a particular candidate, it does speak to his character and poor judgement.
Anyone who can be deceived into believing the false teachings of the Mormon church can be deceived into believing the lies of the democrats in congress.
Fortunately we have an opportunity to support a man of character as well as someone that is a strong Christian and that is Herman Cain!
jan
October 8th, 2011
10:18 am
It’s amazing that with all of the opportunities that the LDS church has made to be open, to enlighten, and inform people about their beliefs (i.e. mormon.org), that so many people choose to remain ignorant and simply swallow what their ‘religious leaders’ tell them and become haters, rather than find out for themselves and make their own choices. Christians- greatest haters in the world, and ’sheeple’ to boot.
Ashley
October 8th, 2011
10:19 am
The only thing I want from my President or congress…is for them not to be liars. I could care less what religion or lack of religion a person is. There are so many people in the world who proclaim to be Christians, but yet their deeds and words say otherwise. The main reason we have so many different churches and denomination is because people can agree on the right way to serve the Lord and Jesus Christ. As far as I’m concerned bashing someones religious belief is … far from being Christ-like…isn’t that what the meaning of being a Christian is? Being superior is not something Jesus aspired to, he was humble and kind while he was here on earth. Accepting of all is what he preached. The only time Jesus became annoyed was when the Pharisees and other religious leader boosted in the temple that their sacrifice to God was more worthy and righteous. Jesus called them hypocrites and told them to their face…..it would appear that needs to happed again.
double
October 8th, 2011
10:21 am
I suppose Democrats in congress are the only liars.When you think this,I would not talk about poor judgement.
Ronnie Raygun
October 8th, 2011
10:22 am
That group is bad because they rub red mud in their bellybuttons. Everyone knows God wanted us to rub blue mud into our bellybuttons. That group of people is going to be punished by God for rubbing the wrong color mud in their bellybuttons. God “said so”. Vote for me!
dixiedemons
October 8th, 2011
10:29 am
We all know the usual white guy will be the GOP nominee and the usual white guys will vote for him
( Perry). The party is having a harder time getting the rest of the population to take the GOP bait . The party is not a reflection of our nation. The party is guided by low morals and misguided value systems ( corporate lobbyists ). As long as someone is making money and having fun anything goes.
Joe Schmoe
October 8th, 2011
10:31 am
I am not voting for Romney, because he is plastic, and bends and conforms to the will of the moment like a chameleon. He is just trying to get this job anyway he can, but his record proves he is a little “less” conservative than he say he is.
honested
October 8th, 2011
10:37 am
While many are busy hinting that somehow perry is superior, is anyone not the least bit queasy about his ‘apostolic reformation’ nonsense or the absolutely absurd concept of ‘dominion’.
Since there has not been a republican candidate since nixon (a terrible thought) who did not start by professing their absolute attachment to their imaginary friend, I cannot see justification for voting for a republican under any reason.
Magic underwear or not.
Corey
October 8th, 2011
10:37 am
Rub their faces in it Truth-O-Meter, rub their faces in it. None of them on here can refute what you posted. The best they can do is to continue to call the president names and throw out the worn out labels: socialist, communist, Muslim, anti-American, community organizer. I am old enough to remember when Dr. King was leading the struggle, and yes the constant refrain of “he’s a communist” was served up daily throughout Dixie.
Ronnie Raygun
October 8th, 2011
10:38 am
“Fortunately we have an opportunity to support a man of character as well as someone that is a strong Christian and that is Herman Cain!”
Herman, is that you?
AYNIL
October 8th, 2011
10:41 am
If you believe there are natural laws, then fundamentalism of any stripe is wrong. But the politics of fundamentalism in the US today is little more than a shadow play. What we see is not real.
If the public were even remotely curious, it could see. Try it. Find the names of the leaders of the various movements. Google them. You’ll find many are engaged in hate wars with each other to cement their own claim to power (a rather unchristian motive) and financial reward.
Yes. If the public were even remotely curious, it would discover the cornerstones of many political fundamentalist organizations are some of mankind’s oldest sins: Greed and envy.
midtownguy
October 8th, 2011
10:41 am
1) All politicians bend and conform to the will of the electorate. Their primary goal is to get re-elected and keep their power and perks. They are all crooks even those who profess their religion.
2) Jesus is not a Republican (nor a Democrat)
3) People vote their own self-interest, not on any principle. That’s why Clinton got re-elected even after he lied under oath. Things were good and everybody had a job.
4) What will determine the election is not who the Republicans nominate, but the state of the economy next November.
honested
October 8th, 2011
10:42 am
Corey,
And back then the hurling of ‘communist’ was coming from that model citizen herbert hoover.
td
October 8th, 2011
10:44 am
Seymourhiney
October 8th, 2011
2:27 am
To be such a so called intelligent person you do not understand very much do you? If you had a basic understanding of the history of this country and economics then you would know that we are a great nation today due to our Judeo/ Christian ethics and morals. If you knew anything about basic economics then you would know that the government does not create jobs and that the government gets in the way of invention/creativeness and the private sector.
AYNIL
October 8th, 2011
10:48 am
ah, Mr. TD
It is a government “of the people.” Do we get in our own way? Have you ever heard of the Jefferson Bible? Rev. Jeff wouldn’t like what Thomas was preaching.
DannyX
October 8th, 2011
10:51 am
This would be a good time for everyone to pick up their Jefferson Bible…
Wait. Can we get a ruling? Was Thomas Jefferson a Christian? Jefferson cut out all the stuff in the Bible he believed in then pasted together his very own version of the Bible. Jefferson took out all the miracles.
Can the war on Christmas be traced to Jefferson? Look at all the miracles he had to take out of the Jesus birth story. There certainly is no Easter in the Jefferson Bible, is that “Christian?”
Would one of our founding fathers now be ineligible for the presidency?
honested
October 8th, 2011
10:54 am
td
What does judeo/christian mythology have to do with success derived from the hard work of millions that had no interest in the nonsense of religion?
midtownguy
October 8th, 2011
10:57 am
“The government cannot create jobs.” All the multi-billion dollar defense contracts don’t create jobs? All those folks in Marietta building aircraft aren’t considered employed? The thousands of people Boeing employed to build the space station didn’t draw a paycheck. All those civilian employees of the armed forces are volunteers?
td
October 8th, 2011
11:02 am
Truth-O-Meter
October 8th, 2011
8:06 am
Let us talk about some of your so called truth:
“• Obama is a communist. Well so was Martin Luther King, Jr. and everybody else Republicans want to discredit.”
Obama supporters like Al Sharpton call Obama a “Social Democrat”. Obama himself states he is for “social justice” and “redistribution of wealth”. Please tell me what these terms mean if not socialism/communism?
“• The Tea Party movement was a grassroots movement because people were feed up with Washington. Yet, the Occupy Wall Street, etc.….movement is a mob”
When have people from Tea party rallies been arrested for civil disobedience? This group has been interviewed and the vast majority of them are want to bring on full fledged socialism and do away with capitalism. The movement was small to begin with and sponsored by George Soros behind the scenes but now the unions, moveon.org and other leftest groups are getting behind them to moderate the views. Tea Party was a real movement and this on is a farce to try to get the youth fired up and vote for Obama.
” Obama can’t create jobs, but Republicans can”
Truth GOVERNMENT does not create jobs, the private sector does. Governments hinder job creation.
td
October 8th, 2011
11:07 am
Corey
October 8th, 2011
10:37 am
MLK was a communist sympathizer at best. Go read some of the FBI reports about true communist he held meetings with.