Transportation sales tax effort implodes

Auntie,

I want to put that on my office wall!

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“The house hasn’t passed a spending bill or an abortion bill in 10 years’.

Well, Hallelujah! Maybe they realize that right-wing pablums like these are useful for firing up their ill-informed base, but NOT a way to govern. Just a thought…

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And as for the TEA party peeps on here: “No more taxes” without any consideration of what effect the proposed tax(es) will have is just blind rhetoric. There is a reason that the Chamber and most (sane) Republicans support an improvement to our woefully inadequate transportation situation, and it has everything to do with economic development and jobs, which tend to come to a region that has a desirable quality of life. Maybe check into that before you start spouting nonsense about complex issues that you haven’t taken the time to grasp.
And if you’re mad about Atlanta being so large and don’t want it to grow further (and bring in more of them fer’ners), fine! Delta’s ready when you are…

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@ Centrist – I’m certainly not saying that every tax is a good tax and that people shouldn’t be entitled to self direct as much of their income as possible. But if a particular tax produces a substantial return on investment for a particular jurisdiction, the Atlanta region, Georgia or the overall country, shouldn’t we as patriotic citizens support those investments? As I said, the verdict is still out on the level of benefits that the regional sales tax will provide. Once all the fact are in, people are certainly entitled to make up their minds regarding whether or not the 1 cent increase is worthwhile or not (using whatever personal criteria they wish, but based on the complete facts, not blind partisan ideology). To prejudge every tax as always “bad” and advocating that keeping as much money in my own wallet is always “good” (cough…Tea Party…cough) is a hopelessly naive, shortsighted and selfish viewpoint that seems to be all too common nowadays.

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@Open Mind – Amen!!!

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Mike it only cost a bundle if you are democrat.Any other party label ,and this was a legitimate up front loan.Seems no one knows all facts,or third party involvement.But will defend the failure.A settlement can cost,and normally does.

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@ Centrist – No, I haven’t seen the final list. In fact, nobody has seen the final list. That’s because what was approved on August 15 was a draft list which will now undergo two months of public comments, with public meetings to be held in every county. This is the time to identify the projects you believe are “boondoggles” and request to members of the roundtable that they replace those projects with ones you believe will create a better return on investment. That’s how the process works…somebody had to come up with a first cut at the list, the public now has the chance to weigh in, and (hopefully) the elected officials will be responsive to that input and produce a better final list in October. Deciding if you’re for or against the list right now is premature.

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Centrist, Jim posted a few days ago that Graves has 2 potential REPUBLICAN challengers. Kinda throws your partisan whine out the door doesn’t it?

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@ Bug (Aug. 24 8:27PM) You are incorrect. The sales tax gives back 25% to counties outside of the Atlanta region, but it only gives back 15% in the Atlanta region. Also, they are to use this money (15%) for additional transportation projects.

@ SAWB (Aug. 25 12:52AM) “What’s up with all this social engineering? I mean why can’t you just leave people alone and let them do what they want instead of trying to force them to do what you think they should? If you want to ride the train fine if I want to drive why in the world should your care?”

So you think that the interstate system was not social engineering? It’s a 2-way street (no pun intended) here. The interstate system spawned the sprawling mess that Atlanta is in today, and just because it is more easily hidden with roads don’t think that they are not also heavily subsidized.

Continuing to grow in the same way we have for the last 50 years is not sustainable. For the sake of the argument, don’t even consider ’sustainable’ in the sense of the feel good environmental way. Think of sustainability in the Republican fiscal responsibility sense. Do you think that it is cheaper to provide and maintain roads, sewers, water lines, etc. to 100 families on 50 acres (2 units to the acre per suburban standards) or 100 families on 10 acres (10 units per acre…townhouse density)? God help you if you think the suburban density is cheaper to build out and maintain for society.

I’m not saying we all need to move into high-rises, but we do need to start thinking about what type of growth and fiscally unsustainable patterns we encourage by just adding additional lanes to already congested highways and interstates. (Not to mention that adding 1, 2, or 3 additional lane(s) does not provide the same benefit of the original lane. In other words, because there are driver conflicts, such as people changing lanes, the benefit that you receive from adding 1 additional lane is less than the benefit that you received from adding the first lane. Each lane added provides less benefit than the one added before it. At the width of our interstate system, it has already hit a critical mass of providing little benefit for additional lanes.)

So, I guess if you want to call providing more transit infrastructure to encourage higher densities in the core developed areas social engineering then have it. But just realize that the subject of personal freedom and choice as it relates to where most people live here was previously decided by the interstate system and the social engineering it induced.

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Whether by another Republican, a Democrat, Libertarian or independent, Leaders who cannot live up to their guarantees in business life have no business as my leader and should be shown the door.
Yes, there was a settlement – a settlement between these legislators and the entity that came in to pick up the pieces of the community bank that made the horrendous decision to trust these guarantors.

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Well said, ole fellow.

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Get the picture: close to 90% of Georgia homes decreased in value in the last quarter. Foreclosures accounted for more than a third of home sales and foreclosures sold on average at a rate 44% lower than other non foreclosure sales. We say we need jobs. Here’s a blurb from the WSJ -
“Union Square’s continued transformation into New York City’s dominant hot spot for tech firms — with a dozen companies signing leases so far this year, including giants like Apple — owes a lot its convenient location and easy access to mass transit.”
Transportation is something that government does BETTER than the private sector. If you believe in capitalism and an expanding economy, you must vote yes to improve transportation. But if you are a nihilist ….

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[...] the original: Transportation sales tax effort implodes | Political Insider Comments [...]

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Alex

August 26th, 2011
7:41 am

Get the picture: close to 90% of Georgia homes decreased in value in the last quarter. Foreclosures accounted for more than a third of home sales and foreclosures sold on average at a rate 44% lower than other non foreclosure sales. We say we need jobs. Here’s a blurb from the WSJ -
“Union Square’s continued transformation into New York City’s dominant hot spot for tech firms — with a dozen companies signing leases so far this year, including giants like Apple — owes a lot its convenient location and easy access to mass transit.”
Transportation is something that government does BETTER than the private sector. If you believe in capitalism and an expanding economy, you must vote yes to improve transportation. But if you are a nihilist ….

I agree with MORE TRAIN POWER. But MARTA WILL NOT get a PENNY of this “FOREVER TAX” as NALA already stated.

It would be DIFFERENT if, when politicians said something, they’d actually DO WHAT THEY SAID. But they NEVER EVER DO. That’s why Social Security will NOT be around in the future–because politicians SAID it was for Social Security, but then started stealing–I mean borrowing, and not putting back–money from it. That’s why the Hope Scholarship and Pre-K have been cut–I mean “edited” because though the GA LOTTERY was SAID by politicians to be for those things, um, well, that pesky political way of LYING reared it’s ugly head, and politicians everywhere started stealing–again–I meant to say: “borrowing, and NOT putting back money.”

I would L-O-V-E to have a train system that is not only LIKE NYC’s but BETTER (since we could BUILD it in today’s times, we have brilliant universities in GA and the U.S. and abroad that could help come up with an UBER GREEN TRAIN SYSTEM, but it WON’T happen.

MARTA is run by RACIST POOR management–in terms of money. MARTA LOATHES black neighborhoods, and is RUN BY BLACKS! Just like, and I digress, DeKalb County (the southern end or “South DeKalb” is RUN by blacks, but is RACIST against it’s black neighborhoods with the TRUE environmental racism, and the lack of upkeep of ANY roadways, and the bloat of spending on everything BUT the black neighborhoods. That fault lies 100% with the black political DOGS and the RACISTS (again, black voters who vote black even if there is a non-black candidate who had done the job great, and should stay in office…but maybe that’s changed…I don’t know, because no NON-BLACKS ever run for office in South DeKalb unless they are Democrats, and even that is EXCRUCIATINGLY RARE) put them in office…. SORRY for the digress, though, just had to vent this in.

But these ROADS, these EXTRA lanes, I think THE PEOPLE–irregardless of race, income level, gender, political, or religious affiliation think that more lanes are STUPID. Just more lanes to sit in. And we ALL know that the “projects” for the interstates take YEARS and NEVER EVER EVER FINISH!

I HATE that I’ve seen “projects” that have lasted for DECADES–or at least, for TOO MANY YEARS of my life.

The Republicans in this state are the equivalent of the Democrats in the Federal Government.

THEY run out of money–therefore they TAX THE PEOPLE. THE PEOPLE didn’t run out of money from stupid wastes…typically, then the people don’t have enough money, the people can’t spend MORE. But the government leaders, are pimps. They do NONE of the work, but they take a cut. ALLEGEDLY this cut is for protection, like military and police officers. SO um, like, why does the USO have to beg THE PEOPLE to donate calling cards to service men and women so that these true public servants can call home once in a blue moon and say hey to their kids? Where’s the money? Poofed, be-gone somewhere, being wasted (and I have INSIDE KNOWLEDGE OF THAT–straight from ARMY BUDGET folk, but anyway)!

Why do police officers have crappy, ill-equipped NONE bullet-proof, bullet-proof vests? Because, even with a union, they STILL have to get money from government dogs, and those dogs don’t have the money, no matter how much we pay in consumption and/or income taxes because why…they WASTED the money.

Why do people who are “public servants” aka politicians, work part-time, and i mean MICRO part time–how many vacations do they get per year, and HOW long do they actually stay in session–they get Easter Break, Summer Break, Spring Break, what are they, elementary schoolers?

But it seems they aren’t hurting for money, bribes–err–I mean–”lobbying,” etc.

The government is SELF SERVING. And We THE PEOPLE are NOT the government.

We earn our money, or get our money from where ever, and we can’t spend it for them taking a cut! How many times can ONE DOLLAR be taxed? Aside from true values of money through talk of inflation, how much is the average worker’s dollar worth? It’s earned, at work. Then taxed once by the Federal Government, Once by the State Government, then you go to Wal-Mart or McDonalds and it’s taxed 3%-7% more, THEN, Wal-Mart and McDonalds pay tax on that dollar in the form of THEIR employee’s salaries, and THEN they pay their business taxes like, maybe before April 15th of every year, like the average person pays their income taxes.

AND THEY (the government politicians) can’t find any money?????? They earn, basically, stealth interest on 1 dollar, like, I don’t know HOW MANY TIMES, before that dollar, itself, goes TO THEM after April 15th of every year.

Somehow I THINK that there is a correlation between $8.00 Coca-Cola soda pop coming out of vending machines in Washington, D.C., uneccessarilly large security details (WITHIN SECURED BUILDINGS) in Washington, D.C., and SUBSIDIZED–I guess that’s the right word–FREE (for the politician) airline tickets for what would have been a 2 hour or less drive via vehicle for GA politicians when they are in session going to and from Atlanta to Macon.

This is NOT a rant, but rather a late-dialogue on this issue of taxation, and NO representation. NYC is different. They have an infrastructure problem, they SOLVE IT–so sayith a Brooklynite turned Georgian. But here in GA, we have an infrastructure problem, traffic congestion problem, school problem, pollution problem, etc…THEY say, “give us this or that in the form of SPLOSTs, if you want this improved.” And WE, THE responsible, forward-thinking, PEOPLE say, “ok, this is true. We DO need to fix those levies (New Orleans, Vermont or other New England), and then, we get sinkholes that come seemingly out of no where, flooding–that we later blame on Katrina–but in reality, wouldn’t have happened had the politicians USED THE LEVY MONEY TO MAINTAIN THE LEVIES, but yeah. So like, where’s the money?

Like Keith Richards after a concert performance–WASTED!

I respect, and actually LOVE your comment Alex, and Nala’s both to an extent, and others’ comments in partial, but I think that there’s a BIG FAT factor that we are NOT factoring in here that changes EVERYTHING:

Politicians PROPOSE (doing x-y-z with OUR money–tourists and locals). WE THE PEOPLE vote YAY. Then decades later, they STILL are taking OUT monies, but we have NO C-H-A-N-G-E, or LITTLE C-H-A-N-G-E!!!! And somehow, they need MORE money. And when you ask them, well, what did you do with the old money, they redirect us to their talking points via political talking heads either on Cable News, Free-T.V. local & national News, or via the RADIO.

Parties mean NOTHING. Politicians are the most self-serving public “servants,” EVER, and they FAIL EPICALLY, with spending OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY. Because that’s all the money they have–OTHER PEOPLE’S money. And all we get, if our “servants” are so generous are “public comment periods” and a paltry vote.

And even when WE THE PEOPLE vote to do the right thing. THEY the politicians–I mean LIARS–do the WRONG THINGS and just turn the other cheek to blame the other party for why they couldn’t do what they said they where gonna do.

SAME STORY.

So yeah, I wish NO argument here, about the gov’t does this better or the private sector does that better, because I believe that self-interest serves SELF, and is a poor servant to ANYONE OTHER. That said though, if Apple needed to build a building with share-holder’s money, they’d build it, and turn a profit, or their shareholders would DUMP their shares, and that would mean Apple would lose funding money. In GA State government, the GA (largely ALWAYS been a Republican run state–even when Democrats where in the more key positions) State Government says, we need to expand this parking lot or that parking lot–OOPS, i meant to say Interstate–and then like, decades later, I see the SAME construction trucks. HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO TURN THAT PROFIT, or to start reaping the rewards for WE THE PEOPLE? That’s NOT efficient. But to be clear, I don’t like government nor private sector because evil is as evil does when it comes to Man trying to run ANYTHING. The only edge I SOMETIMES can give to private sector, at least they know they DOn’t get paid unless they APPEAR to do something (self-interest). The government gets paid, because they just hold folk at gunpoint and threaten them with tax evasion or theft if they don’t pay their taxes.

ADIOS!

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