A Republican caucus fleeing its House speaker?
U.S. Rep. Tom Graves, R-Ranger, announced this afternoon that he couldn’t support House Speaker John Boehner’s deficit-reduction/debt-ceiling plan.
From the press release:
“While I’m supportive of the Speaker’s fierce resistance to job-destroying tax increases, the debt reduction elements within this proposal have already been tried in the past and failed to stop our government from amassing the $14 trillion debt we have today. Most concerning is the failure to demand the passage of a Balanced Budget Amendment.
“Merely promising another vote will not get the job done. Any spending cuts or caps enacted today will eventually disappear without a constitutional requirement for a balanced budget.”
Graves is hardly alone. From the Wall Street Journal:
The leader of a large group of House conservatives said Tuesday he was “confident” there weren’t enough GOP lawmakers to pass a plan by Republican House Speaker John Boehner to increase the debt ceiling and reduce the deficit.
Rep. Jim Jordan (R., Ohio), who said the Boehner plan didn’t cut spending enough, heads a group that includes 178 of the 240 Republican House lawmakers.
The spectacle of a House speaker unable to rally members of his own caucus doesn’t happen every day – regardless of who’s in charge. In a chat this afternoon, Buddy Darden, an Atlanta attorney and former Democratic congressman, made this point:
“The responsibility of being the ruling party, or the party in charge, is that you’re responsible for a positive outcome. This, in my mind, is unprecedented – that the speaker can’t get a majority of his own caucus to step up. There are enough Democratic votes if he can get a majority of his own caucus to pass it.
“But personally, it looks to me like [House Majority Leader Eric] Cantor is undermining the speaker….The speaker has apparently lost control of his caucus – which I’ve never seen.”
“I was there with three speakers – with Tip [O’Neill], Jim Wright and Tom Foley, the weakest of whom was Tom Foley. But still, there was a certain recognition that when the time came, you did what you had to do. Some of us, at different times, didn’t always go along with the caucus. But we realized that there were certain times – when it came to the speaker, when it came to the rules, when it came to the overall operation of the body – that you had to step up.”
- By Jim Galloway, Political Insider
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184 comments Add your comment
RetiredSoldier
July 27th, 2011
11:02 am
HBD-
I suggest you do a little research and look at the sponsors of all the bills in say the last 20 years that provided loop holes for taxpayers, corporate, union or individual. I bet you will find at least 50% of them where spomsored by democrats. This idea that republicans are the source of all the tax loopholes is nonsense. The democrats have been in bed with wall street and the unions for years.
Let’s take the tax loophole for private jets. Where and when did that loophole come from? Ready for the answer? It came from Obama and his stimulus plan! But now he wants it eliminated. Why? It’s good politics to play the class warfare game.
Disgusted Republican
July 27th, 2011
11:06 am
As a 100 percent service-connected disabled veteran who also draws Social Security, I am disgusted iwith Cong. Tom Grave’s . His bull headed stand on debt reduction threatens not only my Social Security benefits (which I worked and paid for) and my VA disability compensatrion (which I get for injuries inccurred in wartime service) but those of many like me who depend on these earned benefits just to get by. I and my familly members live in Cong. Grave’s District. We vote in Republican Primaries every time. Enjoy what is left of your term Mr. Graves. We will do all we can to insure that it will be your last one!
RetiredSoldier
July 27th, 2011
11:08 am
mum-
Not exactly true, of course to borrow money you have to have the means to pay it back. But credit today is available to those that have good to excellent credit history. In a bad economy do you really expect a lender to lend to a poor risk?
You are correct the 9.2% unemployed is a major factor in our current situation. Obama’s answer? More spending and more taxes. When was the last time you saw an individual, company or country spend its way out of debt?
RetiredSoldier
July 27th, 2011
11:12 am
DR-
I too receive a monthly check for my military service. If the debt limit is not raised and you don’t receive you monthly checks you will have Obama to blame. Why? The federal government takes in each month plenty of money to pay the interest on the debt, ss, veteran and the military. If the aren’t paid it is because Obama chose not to pay them.
SmittyATL
July 27th, 2011
11:13 am
mum: You can’t pay your personal bills, and want to give advice on how the US Government should run its finances?!!! I don’t want your “new normal” to become our national “new normal.” I was making big money in the 1990’s. Instead of accepting all the credit offers I received and buying a huge house, impressive automobile, etc., I socked my money away. When my wife joined the ranks of the unemployed and my company went into Chapter 11, I didn’t sink into personal bankruptcy, beg the government to force taxpayers to bail me out, or start stiffing those whom I owe money. If our elected officials could possibly learn to show fiscal restraint — as some of us have in our household finances — perhaps we wouldn’t be in such a precarious situation.
Disgusted Republican
July 27th, 2011
11:17 am
Hey Retired Soldier..I blame all 536 of the jokers in Washington. They have trashed the country we fought for and should be out on their butts…all of them in both parties!
RetiredSoldier
July 27th, 2011
11:18 am
Well said SmittyATL.
RetiredSoldier
July 27th, 2011
11:30 am
DR-
I share that frustration with you. I was addressing the specific issue of you not receiving your monthly checks. If that happens it will be strictly an Obama/executive branch decision.
A Conservative Voice
July 27th, 2011
11:51 am
I think the American People have spoken…….the majority don’t want the “debt ceiling raised”. This madness has to stop. We cannot continue down this path…..if we do, history books in the year 2100 will have a chapter entitled……”The Rise And Fall Of The American Empire” and the beginning will read……”It all started, when on January 20, 2009, a Chicago Socialist was sworn in as POTUS”
Larry
July 27th, 2011
12:34 pm
If the line is not held now….then when? The path set by previous Congresses and Administrations was doomed to fail. Everybody (politicians) saw how easy it was to fleece America. We have now lost our trust in political parties and individuals.
mum
July 27th, 2011
1:47 pm
Smitty ATL, we are already in the hole, the question is how we get out of it. Who do you choose to suffer the most? You missed the point of my comment. I’ve heard over and over again that govenment should be like households, because it isn’t. How you or I handle our personal finances doesn’t affect our neighbor our entire neighborhood, or the state does it?
RetiredSoldier
July 27th, 2011
2:01 pm
mum-
It does. If you live in a subdivision with 100 homes and one house is foreclosed, what is the effect? Not much. But as we see now if thirty-five or more houses in the subdivision are forclosed on it will severly affect your home value.
But the real point is the government and we as individuals need to live within our means.
Disgusted Republican
July 27th, 2011
2:04 pm
It may Obama’s decision not to pay Social Security and/or veteran’s benefits because the money isn’t there to pay all the bills coming due but it is the stupidity of both parties now and over the years that got us into this mess. I have held Republican Party offices and been a contributor over the years but that is over! 536 chimpanzees could do a better job by accident! Re-elect nobody!
RetiredSoldier
July 27th, 2011
2:10 pm
DR-
If you held office before than you certainly know there is a huge difference between where rep and dem stand on the issues. I agree the reps are not good at times, sometimes just lousy, but I have never seem them worse than the dems.
mum
July 27th, 2011
2:21 pm
RetiredSoldier: I wasn’t talking about borrowing money, only paying bills. I fully understand the concept of risk-reward. When companies can’t turn a profit, they cut employees, file bankruptcy and restructure, or go out of business. Whatever the result, there is typically a domino effect. It’s easy to blame Obama for the stimulus not making everything suddently perfect again, but people fail to realize that it took years to get us to where we are. Just as nobody can guarantee NOT raising the debt ceiling WON’T harm the nation’s credit worthiness, nobody could guarantee we would have weathered the early days of the recession without that money. I’m all for closing some of those tax loopholes. I’ve worked in accounting and seen first hand how little in taxes the wealthy pay as a percentage of income with the right type of accounting.
Big Hat
July 27th, 2011
2:27 pm
I am an anti-christ, I am an anarchist, Don’t know what I want but I know how to get it, I wanna destroy the passer by cos I wanna BE anarchy!
HDB
July 27th, 2011
2:49 pm
td
July 27th, 2011
10:34 am
Let me answer you in this manner:
1 )”When 25% of the population is receiving from the ’safety net’ then it ceases to become a stop gap measure and turns into a way of life. I for one am totally against a person making a living off the government because they do not want to work or have chosen to make bad decisions in their lives.”
If a person is able-bodied and capable of working, then we are in agreement; many, however, did NOT make bad decisions….but were victims of bad circumstances. In that case, a safety net should exist to assist in recovery. The problem is that conservatives paint a DARK picture of those who are caught in the “safety net” when the preponderance of those in that system are white and in Appalachia! Reality, once viewed honestly, is NOT a difficult concept to acknowledge!
2) ” creating tax advantages for those OF advantage”
“How can you even make such a statement when 48% of the population pays no Federal taxes and a good portion of those receive money (Wealth redistribution) in the form of EITC?”
Lest you forget, EITC was devised during the REAGAN Administration as an incentive for those on the poverty line would DESIRE to work! 48% pays no INCOME taxes….but we ALL pay federal taxes in one way or another! If you are going to criticize them….note the LACK of economic possibilities from 2001 to now! Republican ideology has depressed the economy!!
3) “persistent hostilities towards ethnic minorities!!” And that statement is just BS.”
Really?? Review your history….
1) When Southern conservatives left the Democratic Party in 1964 over the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts, they migrated to the GOP…and took a racist paradigm with them! When Colin Powell advocated that the GOP embrace Affirmative Action, he was literally BOOED off the stage at the GOP Convention!!
2) Note the hostility toward Hispanics by conservatives via law: SB1070 in Arizona and similar laws in Georgia and Alabama target Hispanics. Lest one forgets that illegals of Caucasian or Nordic descent that cross the Canadian border face no such repercussions!!
3) Note the LACK of minority representation in the GOP – only 125 delegates to the 2008 Convention were people of color!
4) Note the LACK of GOP candidates that campaign in the inner cities…..enough said!!
Those that forget their history are doomed to repeat it!!!!
HDB
July 27th, 2011
2:58 pm
RetiredSoldier
July 27th, 2011
11:12 am
When the GOP passed EIGHT clean increases to the debt limit under Bush…and borrowed from the Chinese to fight TWO wars…and NO TAX INCREASES to pay for those wars, where was the outrage then?? NON-EXISTENT!! We all know that the only entity that could have effectively arrest the recession IS the government!! Note how the private sector is HOARDING money rather than working towards improving the national situation!! Note how many jobs have been OFFSHORED rather than hiring people here to do the same!! The government is doing what is NECESSARY to get things back to where it should be!!
Retired Soldier
July 27th, 2011
3:07 pm
Dang right they are racist in Washington. Oh you seem to think they aren’t? You live in a fantasy land. Don’t forget the republicans number one goal when Obama got elected was that they would do everything in their power to make him a one term president. And they are sticking to it, and are not going to compromise with him.
BTW I am a retired soldier with 22 yrs service in the Army. I was first to post on this thread, so I get to use it. Next time, if retired soldier has posted first, I will add a couple characters to the name to be fair. See how easy compromise can be?
RetiredSoldier
July 27th, 2011
3:25 pm
HDB-
Let me attempt to answer that long list:
If Bush borrowed to fight two years is it better to borrow to fight three wars? Of course not. Don’t think there weren’t conservatives frustrated with Bush’s big spending ways. I was and that is why I am frustrated with Obama, his debt expansion makes Bush look like a piker.
Private sector hoading money- Don’t forget, it’s their money! They can do with it as they please.
Off shore jobs- Jobs are like money, they go where they are treated best. Want to solve the problem of overseas jobs and off shore money? Adopt the Fair Tax.
The government does best what it does least. In other words let the free market without huge intrusion from the government go about the business of business.
RetiredSoldier
July 27th, 2011
3:26 pm
I see my clone is back, the 3:07 is not my post. I see you still don’t have a life.
RetiredSoldier
July 27th, 2011
3:28 pm
Other Retired soldier-
Where the democrats trying to support Bush when he was president? Was that racist? Get a life buddy.
HDB
July 27th, 2011
4:52 pm
RetiredSoldier
July 27th, 2011
3:25 pm
To re-direct:
1) “If Bush borrowed to fight two years is it better to borrow to fight three wars? Of course not. Don’t think there weren’t conservatives frustrated with Bush’s big spending ways. I was and that is why I am frustrated with Obama, his debt expansion makes Bush look like a piker.”
The questions you SHOULD HAVE asked are these:
1) Why were the wars being funded on BORROWED money….rather than a tax INCREASE….which EVERY President prior to GWB did to fund wars??
2) Why was the Tea Party NON-EXISTENT when GWB was spending this nation into oblivion…but
now they decide to decry the necessary spending the government is doing to arrest a recession??
3) Why after 9/11, did GWB state that the nation needed to “keep shopping” rather than to state that as a nation, we needed to share the sacrifice?
4) Why were the Bush tax cuts ineffective in job creation/
Private sector hoading money- Don’t forget, it’s their money! They can do with it as they please.
There is such an idiom as CIVIC RESPONSIBILITY!! If you decry those in poverty from not having any civic responsibility, why don’t you get on the corporate robber barons who take jobs offshore, and pay NO TAXES……thereby abdicating their civic responsibility??
3) “Off shore jobs- Jobs are like money, they go where they are treated best. Want to solve the problem of overseas jobs and off shore money? Adopt the Fair Tax.”
1) Fair Tax AIN’T fair! It’s another gimmick to shift the tax burden DOWNWARD to those who can least afford a tax increase! What the Fair Tax actually does is INCREASE taxes on the middle class by 50%….but decreases the taxes on the wealthy by almost 62%!!
2) If you close ALL the loopholes that allow corporations to take jobs offshore, it would be incentive to keep jobs HERE! By expanding the labor pool, you expand the TAX BASE!!
3) “The government does best what it does least. In other words let the free market without huge intrusion from the government go about the business of business.”
Regulations are necessary to protect the consumer from unscrupulous business practices, protect the environment, and provide an equitable business environment! An unregulated market opens the door for persistent abuses….like BP, Enron………
Opinion??
Retired Soldier
July 27th, 2011
4:52 pm
That must be your new line, get a life.
Retired Soldier
July 27th, 2011
5:00 pm
No one was asked to sacrifice for Bush’s wars. In fact he gave the rich a big tax break. Bush drove our country to the brink of bankruptcy, and then plopped a big pile of $hit on Obama’s lap.
Why do lower and middle class republicans support their party. They don’t give a rat’s a$$ about you, and in fact you and I are burdens to them. They are all about the rich, and making sure they are taken care of. We didn’t hear a peep when Bush was borrowing money for 8 years….crickets from the republicans….
SmittyATL
July 27th, 2011
6:02 pm
I’m not a Republican, but I generally vote for fiscally conservative and socially moderate (neither Victorian nor liberal) candidates, so based on their positions Republicans are generally more likely to get my vote than Democrats.
That being said, I am old enough to remember the objections to Reagan running up the deficit, and I thought that GW Bush was fiscally reckless. Obama has taken fiscal irresponsibility to a completely new level.
Contrary to popular notion, one does not have to be a Bush fan to be an Obama critic. Not only that — most of us aren’t even racist!
SmittyATL
July 27th, 2011
6:15 pm
Can’t you guys label yourselves Retired Soldier 1 and Retired Soldier 2? That might cut down a little confusion. On the other hand, it’s pretty easy to tell who’s who since one of you (the one with the life!) makes infinitely more sense than the other.
RetiredSoldier
July 27th, 2011
7:42 pm
Smitty-
You said my view point exactly, though I may be a bit more conservative socially.
He said on his post he was on here before me. I have been posting on here 3 years or so and never saw his post until yesterday. What do i know, I’m just a know nothing conservative. Keep the posts coming Smitty.
yuzeyurbrane
July 27th, 2011
8:31 pm
I believe there is an overwhelming silent majority who do not believe in extreme radicals of any stripe. If President Obama would only firmly lead, they would follow. We should not allow the success of factions whose only purpose is to make our society disfunctional in furtherance of their delusional fantasies about leading a revolution of “the real Americans”. If we don’t squash these traitors now, I have no doubt that they will soon move to take away our freedoms.
ANGRY AS HELL
July 27th, 2011
8:45 pm
Bill Orvis White and HMMMMMMMM!
First, off, I have never asked for or received a government hand out. I served my country honorably for 4 years during the Vietnam War. My father and father in-law served in WWII. My son served bravely and honorably in Iraq. So they and I don’t have to be quiet or I have worked every single day of my life since I was 10 years old. I worked and went to school at night to get a college degree. No one’s ever handed me a damn thing. And I don’t need two brainwashed boneheads to tell me which way the wind’s blowing. I may not live to see it, but if things keep going the way they are, there will be a revolution in this country, the likes of which none of us could ever have imagined. I love this country and defended more than most. So, I get to say what the hell I want. And Bill Orvis White, spare us your phony Christian platitudes.You try to speak like a Christian, but your heroes are those who take advantage of the poor and the middle-class. If Jesus were alive today, he’d be helping the poor and the powerless in this country, not the wealthy.
SmittyATL
July 27th, 2011
10:14 pm
ANGRY: It sounds like you’re a person of strong character and backbone. I think it’s admirable that you want to help the poor and powerless; I share that goal. I don’t believe, however, that socialism is the best — or even a good — way to get there. President Obama talks about reducing unemployment, yet he is hostile to corporations; that formula will not work. He wants everyone to own a house, have a new car, and receive a college education; but as we’ve seen, this is not sustainable in the market. I believe we should all help the less fortunate, and I strive to do so. We can live in a charitable society without having a government-engineered economy.
We should also dispel the notion that corporations are evil. No doubt there are some bad apples, but that’s no reason for broad-based condemnation. If we want job creation and a robust stock market (where most of us have our education and retirement savings invested), our country needs profitable corporations.
double
July 27th, 2011
10:53 pm
I know BOW has lost it.He is putting God Almighty in same group as Reagan,Newt Bachmann.When he speaks of R&R he means rapture ready.
ANGRY AS HELL
July 28th, 2011
12:51 pm
SmityATL, I agree 100% with you. I’m not talking about socialism. I don’t believe in it either. What I AM talking about is how quick we are as a society to look to corporate America and corporate titans as sources for morality. I strongly believe that if Corporate America could get its way, it would roll back the calendar to about 1900 and do away with all those costly regulations — regulations on child labor laws, on worker protection and safety, etc. If one is driven exclusively by the profit motive, then it’s far easier to move jobs overseas to countries which still exploit the labor of children or the elderly or the disabled. The question for me is a very simple one: “What kind of country are we turning into?” Have we seen our best days/years? In 20 years when my grandchildren are trying to carve a small piece of good life for themselves, will they find themselves unemployed or unemployable? I meant what I wrote I said that if this country continues to shatter the hopes and dreams of the middle-class while assuring that the rich continue to get rich, there will be a revolution in this country, and it will be brought by the silent majority who will no longer allow themselves toi be treated like chattel property. I hope it never happens, but I think it is very possible.
ANGRY AS HELL
July 28th, 2011
1:01 pm
double–I agree with you. Isn’t it amazing how some people who call themselves Christian can misrepresent who Christ was and what his ministry was about? BOW is just such a person. He thinks the Lord is on his side, and the side of the Rush Limbaughs, Sean Hannitys, and the side of the Corporate Communists.