The Gang of Six plan, Social Security and other entitlements
Jim Galloway’s Political Insider blog will return later this week.
Some additional points on the deficit reduction plan by U.S. Sen. Saxby Chambliss and the Gang of Six:
– When U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., withdrew from the bipartisan effort to reduce the deficit after five months of negotiation, many in Washington pronounced the Gang of Six dead – or at least, irrelevant. Which in D.C. is worse than dead.
But on Tuesday, there was Coburn in the members-only briefing of the Senate, endorsing the proposal. What brought him around? For one thing, an increase in 10-year savings from Medicare and Medicaid, from $370 billion or so to $500 billion. Just how those savings will be accomplished are details that would be left to the proper Senate committee.
– Look for a good deal of emphasis today on making Democrats more comfortable with the Gang of Six plan. “Balancing the deficit on the backs of the elderly” is the slogan they’re vulnerable to. Proponents today are emphasizing that savings from Social Security reform – means testing is a possibility – are to be plowed back into the Social Security system. They wouldn’t be applied to the deficit.
– The silence – so far — from the House Republican side is a sign that the Senate venture is being taken seriously. Certain elements of the GOP base and the tea party, of course, are another matter. One Tweet from this morning from Adairsville Rob to U.S. Rep. Phil Gingrey, R-Marietta, who was celebrating his Tuesday vote for the GOP caucus’ cut-cap-and-balance plan:
Thank you, sir! Now PLEASE run against Saxby Chambliss! Pragmatism is killing the Republic!
That is a thought certainly worth discussing.
- By Jim Galloway, Political Insider
For instant updates, follow me on Twitter, or connect with me on Facebook.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
246 comments Add your comment
kc
July 21st, 2011
3:00 pm
all the pols are bought and paid for, thanks supreme court for making bribery legal
Neil
July 21st, 2011
3:02 pm
Hey KC…the pols are bought and paid for, but it’s the ignorant masses who keep voting them into office. When people understand the issues and act in their own self-interest, instead of doing what some group tells them or based on a 30 sec commercial, then you’ll get better representation.
Until then, people in this country get the gov’t they deserve.
yuzeyurbrane
July 21st, 2011
3:24 pm
Neil, nice emotional rant. I can tell you were not winner of “silver sperm” award. But surely you know some folks who were?
td
July 21st, 2011
3:29 pm
Jerome Horwitz
July 21st, 2011
1:44 pm
“There are many factors influencing where one stands in life”
Can you please name some of these factors?
td
July 21st, 2011
3:33 pm
Neil
July 21st, 2011
2:55 pm
Amen. People choose their place in life. People choose to receive or not receive a education. People choose to do drugs or not to do drugs. People choose to drink or not to drink. People choose to have children they can not afford to early in life and people choose to work hard or not work hard. There should be consequences to those choices but not in America. In America if people make unwise choices then the government takes care of them and then they feel like they are entitled to these handouts.
RetiredSoldier
July 21st, 2011
4:10 pm
Well stated TD.
Jerome Horwitz
July 21st, 2011
4:13 pm
td – know what? I’m with you on your above post. I don’t believe in handouts to people who make bad choices. Have no use for a bum.
Philosophy is that if you’ve worked – say you’ve been a waiter(ress), security guard, mechanic, store clerk, etc. and tried hard in perhaps a job choice that didn’t offer the best benefits then programs like SS and Medicare are there to help you later in life. Not everyone is cut out to be the top of the pile. If that were the case who would pick up the trash?
You guys would have loved this country around the turn of the century – the Gilded Age and the days of the robber barons. The rich kept everything, the poor worked long hours for little pay, and died early.
We just have different ideas about what this country is about. I look at these programs as the hand up – not the hand out. And as long as you can respect my position I can respect yours.
RetiredSoldier
July 21st, 2011
4:26 pm
Jerome-
One of the great misunderstandings in the world of politics is republicans/conservatives are all wealthy country clubers whom seldom had to work due to inheirted wealth. That seems to be your view in reference to robber barons, etc. Fact is most conservatives are like me, strictly middle class from a middle class family who happen to believe is less government, lower taxs and more personal freedom.
I suggest you look at the 2008 elections as a guide. Wall street gives the majority of its cash and votes to democrates. Business centers like New York, San Fran and LA are strictly democrat. The “robber barons” of today are alive and well in the party of Obama.
td
July 21st, 2011
5:01 pm
Jerome Horwitz
July 21st, 2011
4:13 pm
I can agree with you that SS is not a bad program and it is our responsibility to take care of those in their old age that have been producers in our country and contributed to the system (Trash collectors, waitresses ect). These are not the people that are hurting the program. The program is being hurt by SSI (not the ones that can not truly take care of themselves) but the ones that get the so called “crazy” checks. The people that have done so many drugs or are such a drunk that they no longer can work. The ones that have made the choice to defile their bodies so bad with excessive eating that they can no longer work. I have a friend that works for SSI and have told me stories of how women bring their children in to get tested for disabilities and while they were in the waiting room feed the kids pixie sticks and drink coke so they would not be able to concentrate on the test.
td
July 21st, 2011
5:07 pm
RetiredSoldier
July 21st, 2011
4:26 pm
So true. Wall street, hedge fund manager and banks gave overwhelmingly to Democrats and Obama in 2008. This story seems to escape the “main stream media”. Them, trail lawyers, unions and hollywood makes up 80% of all the money the Dems receive. The Republicans are manly funded by corporations, small business owners, the pharmaceutical industry and the oil industry.
Most of the Reps supporters are in middle America and not on the two coast.
Bob
July 21st, 2011
5:31 pm
The solution is simple…term limits. Not being concerned with reelection would allow you to either vote for the benefit of the country or steal, and stealing might just get you arrested. Only a 5 year term for each Sen/Congressman; however, it’ll never happen. How many of you would vote yourself out of a job? Somewhere along the line, we’ve turned “serving our country” into becoming a “career politician”. Just my opinion.
Neil
July 21st, 2011
5:48 pm
@yuzeyurbrane…not an “emotional rant” at all. In fact, what that I said wasn’t factual and was emotional? When people start talking about the gov’t upholding “dignity” and things along those lines, those are the subjective and emotional comments. Discussing what the Constitution does and does not provide for, or that people make their own choices in life, and the fact that anyone in GA with a B average in high school can get a scholarship…those are demonstrable facts.
And no…I don’t know anyone from the “silver sperm” club, whatever that means. People I know and work with have worked hard to get where they are, and no one handed them anything.
What really does irk me and get emotional is this neo-socialism that vilifies financial success. This new popularism is trying to make it something to be ashamed of to be financially and otherwise succesful. Somehow it’s now fashionable to be poor or to be uneducated. Those are now the “working people” as if others are laying around watching Oprah reruns.
What also irks me is the resentment that comes from this new popularism. The top 10% of wage earners pay 70% percent of federal income taxes. The bottom 50% pay nothing. That is not an opinion…that is fact. I posted links earlier in the thread. Now…I don’t expect anyone to give me kudos for paying my huge tax bill every year, but I do expect not to be called names and to be vilified, especially by the very same people who are happy to take the money I pay.
When we hear from the President about “shared scarifice” and paying your “fair share”…he is directing that to the evil “rich” people who make more than $250K/yr, not a very large sum in today’s world. The reality is as I stated. People making more than $250K/yr are paying a HUGE share of the federal income taxes, and it’s really the 50% on the low end who are skipping out on their responsibility to share the burden.
The Centrist
July 21st, 2011
6:00 pm
Things have changed a little since 1992, but it was an experience seeing a major bread winner die and the spouse getting $12,000 from SSI fund to support two children…one going to college, and the household being limited to earning $32,000. Oh yeah, when the yard lizards turn 18 and go to college they were not eligible for SSI. It ain’t as easy a slope as some make it out to be, and I pray to God that this never happens to so-called fiscal conservatives or their children.
kc
July 21st, 2011
6:00 pm
you fail to mention the top 1% earn 25% income and own 43% of financial wealth….how much should they pay in taxes to protect their ability to earn what many view as highly disparate income…..think hedge fund folks who earn billions should only pay 15%…..i do agree 250K is not wealthy when viewed from net income position….i also agree everyone needs some skin in the game, but wonder what % is fair for minimum wage salary
The Centrist
July 21st, 2011
6:05 pm
I was offline for awhile. Did anyone expound on what specific massive spending could be attributed to Obama, and did Neil ever find a good tax accountant?
Neil
July 21st, 2011
6:06 pm
“You fail to mention the top 1% earn 25% income and own 43% of financial wealth.” Yup, I did, but so what? Why is what you stated bad? That is the main point.
What amendment to the US Constitution says that there has to be some even demographic split for income and wealth? Isn’t that the motivator that has built and drives this country and our economy? The fact that one can build wealth and fortune. I think it’s a good thing that more people should aspire to, rather than feeling jealous and envious of what others have.
The Centrist
July 21st, 2011
6:08 pm
Neil. So, the bottom 50% of American do not pay any taxes. Why?
Bob
July 21st, 2011
6:09 pm
How ’bout this for tax revision…a 5% national sales tax and voluntary contributions to the IRS for the value you feel like you’re receiving from the gov’t. Might just get you to vote a little differently.
kc
July 21st, 2011
6:11 pm
it is only your weird view of world that considers it bad…..my guess is there are tons of folks that could replace you in a heart beat…..karma is a b!tch
The Centrist
July 21st, 2011
6:15 pm
WOW Neil, You are on a roll. So what amendment IN the US Constitution says that there shouldn’t be some even demographic split for income and wealth? The only time people are jealous and envious of what others have, in this simply debate, is when they figure out how they got there. On both sides.
The Centrist
July 21st, 2011
6:23 pm
Bob. When you do your 5% national tax, what do you do for state and local requirements for the public good? Does this mean that Social Security and Medicare are excluded from your concept, and those funds are placed in an Al Gore Lockbox and cannot be used to “balance the budget?” Does your plan call for no interstate tranfer of “wealth,” so that most Southern and less populated states will simply dry up? Just asking.
Bpb
July 21st, 2011
6:53 pm
Centrist…thanks for responding. My idea is for Fed only, let the state/local tailor their programs according to needs, resources, etc. Past time for the Fed to stop buying votes with your money. FICA and medicare will continue to be deducted from your pay, and invested separately. I think you’ll see all the Southern states and less populated ones thrive and prosper…I’d worry about NY, CA, MI, and most of New England. Can’t you see that we have a spending problem, not a revenue problem?
Bob
July 21st, 2011
6:56 pm
Bpb is code for Bob…sorry.
Lynn
July 21st, 2011
8:02 pm
Enter your comments here
Lynn
July 21st, 2011
8:07 pm
Why can’t we get a President and a Congress that will do right by the American taxpayer. We didn’t sign up to fund Medicaid, Unemployment, Free School Lunches, Welfare, Food Stamps? Why should those of use who to choose to work, save for our retirement, and have only as many children as we can support be made to pay for those who chose to do none of this and spend what disposal income they have on drugs, booze, etc. I am sick and tired of paying for those who refuse to be responsible for themselves.
td
July 21st, 2011
8:28 pm
VAT tax is just like the fair tax. The only difference is that we still have a income tax. The UK started a VAT tax years ago and said it would only be 5%, guess what it is 23% today. That means you pay a 23% tax on every item you buy. They also have a very high “progressive” income tax.
double
July 21st, 2011
10:02 pm
Retired soldier just wondering.Did you retire from military,or just retired,and was in military?
double
July 21st, 2011
10:15 pm
Jerome think you hit nail on head-carpetbaggers+scalawags=republicans of that day.Ready to loot and plunder the defeated south.
Link
July 21st, 2011
11:06 pm
“– means testing is a possibility –”
Anyone who loses Social Security eligibility because of means testing should get a full refund of every dollar they ever paid in, with interest. Otherwise SS becomes just another redistribution scheme that rewards underachievers and penalizes the producers.
yuzeyurbrane
July 21st, 2011
11:29 pm
Neil, lighten up. You know what I meant by silver sperm award previously known as being born with a silver spoon in their mouth. I assumed you are a self-made wealthy man. I also find it hard to believe you do not know anyone born with a silver spoon. But I guess anything is possible. Also, I will stick with rant because you are making emotional arguments based on some truths, some half-truths and some things you are just wrong about. In short you are expressing your opinion. Fine. Others have already dissected some of your statements so I won’t repeat. But you are wrong to say people who are not subject to Federal income taxes pay no taxes and imply that they don’t work as hard as you. They pay plenty of taxes in the form of FICA, sales taxes, telecommunications taxes, “fees” for various govt. services, etc. Studies have shown they pay a higher % of their meager incomes on taxes than most higher income people like you. Surely, you should remember this since you pulled yourself up by your own bootstraps without any govt. largesse at all? And the people who work by the sweat of their brow at minimum wage jobs which no one else will do are less than you? I have a different opinion than you. I am pleased to see people attain financial success through their hard work and in fact admire them. But I believe in an opportunity society where everyone has a level playing field to make it based on their ability and drive alone. That makes a strong society. Would you prefer a banana republic society with the wealthy few esconced behind their gated communities? I hope not. As that great socialist, Warren Buffett, said: “We already have class warfare and my class has won.”
double
July 22nd, 2011
8:22 am
I would think retired soldier was in combat.His unit attacked by enemy.After the firing stopped,smoke cleared he was the LAST MAN STANDING our hero,and democrat hater,Obama hater.Well thats my version right or left.
Real Athens
July 22nd, 2011
9:32 am
“I suggest you look at the 2008 elections as a guide. Wall street gives the majority of its cash and votes to democrates. Business centers like New York, San Fran and LA are strictly democrat. The “robber barons” of today are alive and well in the party of Obama.”
The “robber barons” gave to who it appeared would win — Hands down. Look at the 2004 elections for that evidence.
RetiredSoldier
July 22nd, 2011
10:09 am
Double-
Movie version out is six months, thanks for the plug.
Not a democrat hater, have voted for a number of democrats, I disagree with most democrats and their liberal vision for America. Absolutely don’t hate Obama, dislike strongly his policies.
Real Athens-
Since Obama was behind in the polls until the crash I don’t think that dog hunts. Look at previous years as well, Wall Street has an absolute leftward tilt.
Ole Guy
July 22nd, 2011
11:09 am
First of all, let’s howbout we stop refering to Social Security as an entitlement…SS is about as much of an entitlement as the proceeds of your stock portfolio, IRAs, and 401Ks. We all paid into these things under the existing “rules of the game”, and under those very same rules, we OWN the proceeds. They’re not gifts, give-aways, or entitlements…they’re OURS. The only entitlements are those enjoyed by the esteemed legislators who have, over the years, raped the Social Security program.
RetiredSoldier
July 22nd, 2011
11:41 am
Ole Guy-
I agree with you, but the government doesn’t. The federal government considers it their money and can do with as they desire.
td
July 22nd, 2011
1:09 pm
Ole Guy
July 22nd, 2011
11:09 am
How about all those people receiving SSI. It is the governments way to strip the money all the hard working people put into the system and to redistribute to others that are to lazy to work (exception being those who are truly disabled and that is about 20% of all SSI recipients)
Jerome Horwitz
July 22nd, 2011
1:48 pm
td – That’s always the tough part. Doubt that most would deny help/assistance to those who are truly trying to work or improve their position. It’s those who are unwilling to work and want to live off of others rankle all of us.
Problem is sorting the wheat from the chaff. A cheat will always find away (probably spending more effort than they would working).
Wilma
July 22nd, 2011
2:49 pm
Let’s examine the Senate plan for dealing with the debt crisis?
Well?
Oh yeah…there isn’t one. Once again, Harry Reid and the dems only know how to say no. The democrats have no proposal at all on the table. Talk about a failure to negotiate!
RetiredSoldier
July 22nd, 2011
2:56 pm
Wilma-
Absolutely correct. Since every single democrat voted against cut, cap and balance I believe the lesson is as follows:
1. All senate democrats believe the expansion of the federal government should be unlimited.
2. There is no need to cut current federal spending.
3. All senate democrats oppose a balanced budget.
Guess that about covers it, oops just two additional questions:
1. Obama, Reid and Pelosi, where is your plan?
2. Reid, why won’t you consider and pass a federal budget?
td
July 22nd, 2011
4:14 pm
RetiredSoldier
July 22nd, 2011
2:56 pm
No RS this is all about Harry Reid trying to maintain power. There are 8 Democrat Senators in red state up for re election next year. Reid does not want them to have to take a vote on any issue that could be used against them in the next election.
RetiredSoldier
July 22nd, 2011
4:49 pm
td-
They just did on the motion to table. I think Tester, Nelson & Nelson, etc just signed their retirement ticket. Thank you Leader Reid, we have a spot reserved for you in the minority leader office.
double
July 22nd, 2011
6:23 pm
Ramussen Poll showing Obama 41%- Ron Paul 37%..
kc
July 22nd, 2011
7:09 pm
is compromise in repub vocabulary
double
July 22nd, 2011
7:30 pm
td you bitch and whine about all the people on ssi.Say only 20% legitmate.How do the excess get approved?Crooked doctors?Lawyers?or by afflilation ? I’m not disagreeing with you.Just wondering how this is accomplished,and if you had given thought.
td
July 22nd, 2011
8:02 pm
double
July 22nd, 2011
7:30 pm
Good question. “Crooked doctors?Lawyers” Yes and yes for some. There are a great deal of them that are to sorry to work and claim back problems for example, get a doctor to sign off on and state the problems make them unable to work and then hire a lawyer to plead push the issue and sue. There are also a great deal of drunks and drug addicts that have fried their brains so much that they get it.
Another example: I have a friend that works for SSA in testing of children to determine if they have a disability. These parents keep their children up all night the day of the testing and then hop them up on cokes, sugar and other stimulates before they test and then send them in so that the children can not concentrate and are determined to have a disability.
td
July 22nd, 2011
8:08 pm
kc
July 22nd, 2011
7:09 pm
is compromise in repub vocabulary
Obama knows that there are 221 Republican and Democratic members of the house that have signed a pledge not to raise taxes and he is insisting on it or no deal. If they give in then he wins reelection because the conservatives will not come out in force to vote next year.
Obama is a socialist and the worst President we have ever had but he is a brilliant politician. He knows if they do HIS “Compromise” then he wins and if they do not then he wins because he runs against congress “tea party” instead of his record.
td
July 22nd, 2011
8:31 pm
double
July 22nd, 2011
7:30 pm
To add to the above post. SSI is like any other Federal program. There is a ton of fraud involved. I have seen reports that there is at least a 25% fraud rate in Medicare, Medicaid, Food stamps, farm subsidies. Just think how much money we could save if we just eliminated the fraud?
Centrist
July 22nd, 2011
9:47 pm
Galloway came breathlessly out from his vacation to endorse the “Gang of 6″ proposal, but is holed up now that it has been blown out of the water. There was NEVER any chance the House of Representatives who were largely elected by “Taxed Enough Already” (TEA) party members were going to accept $1.2 trillion in additional taxes over the next 10 years. They might have accepted the $800 billion in limiting loopholes and deductions that Obama first agreed to, but when he moved the goal posts the negotiations collapsed.
luangtom
July 22nd, 2011
10:28 pm
Political oneupmanship is going to be the downfall of this country. Just think of all of the finger-pointing if this country defaults…..
I still get riled when the politicos speak of Social Security as an “entitlement” in the same breath as their welfare and other give-away programs. Social Security has its own tax, its own account and its own budget. If the politicos had just left it alone and not borrowed from it, it would be over-funded and very solvent. Nope, over the years they chose to raid it and take the excess funds to bolster their give-away programs that garner the Liberals votes. LBJ and his Great Society started the big onslaught of borrowing from the fund and never paying it back.
We can all thank the past and present elected officials in Washington DC for the situation we are in. Remember their good work come November of 2012….if this country makes it that far.
Centrist
July 22nd, 2011
11:46 pm
President Obama asked of the Republicans today: “‘Can they say yes to anything?”
Republicans have put forward via the House legislation that the Senate narrowly turned down today. There is also the Senate Republican McConnell plan that now looks like the closest thing to be approved next week.
It was “the jello president” Obama who agreed to $800 billion in loophole and deduction changes, only to renege and increase that to $1.2 trillion. Otherwise, they seemed close to an agreement except for accounting differences on proposed spending cuts and the two sides were not able to bridge their differences over the triggers designed to force Congress to enact both tax reform and cuts to Medicare and other benefit programs by early next year.
This has been all about politics (Republicans using the debt ceiling to force spending cuts), and Democrats demonizing Republicans when they won’t accept outlandish tax increases.