In search of Republicans who have John Boehner’s back
If all goes as planned, Barack Obama and John Boehner will spend Sunday at the White House, locked together in what may be the largest game of Texas hold ‘em the world has ever seen.
The president and speaker are the two figures with the most skin in the Washington debate over an increased debt ceiling and the $14 trillion federal deficit. Obama wants to be re-elected. Boehner wants the U.S. House to remain Republican.
Neither wins with a Wall Street meltdown, which is what we’re assured will happen if the pair don’t reach an agreement on raising the federal government’s borrowing limit by Aug. 2.
U.S. Rep. Jack Kingston, R-Savannah/AJC file
Democrats in Congress are likely to rally, however reluctantly, to whatever cuts to entitlements Obama agrees to. But Boehner’s hold on his Republican troops is less secure. Especially if the deal includes increased federal revenue — not through tax rate increases, but the elimination of tax breaks.
Which of Georgia’s eight Republican members of the House are likely to join their speaker? Right now, it looks like very few.
In an interview on Bloomberg TV on Friday, Tom Graves of Ranger was skeptical of any need for a deal with the White House. “I think it’s very safe to say that Aug. 2 is a deadline that’s been put out there by [Treasury Secretary] Timothy Geithner. It’s been moved throughout. They’re already preparing for that date and to go past that date.”
Paul Broun of Athens pointedly introduced legislation this week that would lower the debt ceiling — not raise it. “I wholeheartedly hope that my colleagues will either ante up or try their luck at another profession,” he said.
On Thursday, Rob Woodall of Lawrenceville declared he wanted no part of a debt-ceiling vote — House Republicans, he said, had already turned down the idea. Hours earlier, Tom Price of Roswell appeared to rule out any package that included revenue increases.
“The quickest way to further stall economic growth is to raise taxes on American families under the guise of fiscal responsibility,” he said.
Phil Gingrey of Marietta, Austin Scott of Tifton and Lynn Westmoreland of Coweta County have remained relatively quiet.
The tea party’s indisputable strength in Georgia is one reason for the shortage of Georgia Republicans leaping to Boehner’s side. But another is the lack of engagement on the debt-ceiling issue by the Georgia business community.
In Washington and New York, economists and financial wizards have warned of the dire consequences that would follow federal default. But in Georgia, little cover has been provided to those Republicans who might be in the mood to back Boehner’s play.
Joselyn Baker, a spokeswoman for the Georgia Chamber of Commerce, admitted that her organization hasn’t yet engaged with members of Congress on the debt-ceiling debate.
That will soon change, she added. “It’s an issue that’s currently being discussed here.”
For now, the only House Republican from Georgia who might cast a vote for a debt-ceiling deal is Jack Kingston, who as a House Appropriations subcommittee chairman qualifies as a member of Boehner’s leadership team.
“If the president is willing to support some entitlement reforms, and if for every dollar of debt increase, there’s more than a dollar cut — or at least a dollar-for-dollar match — that will be very helpful,” Kingston said in a telephone interview.
Large, unpleasant pills will have to be swallowed — by both sides — the Savannah congressman said.
Some House Republicans are demanding passage of a constitutional amendment to require a balanced federal budget. But the president doesn’t control the U.S. Senate, so that’s not going to happen, Kingston said.
House Republicans will have to be content to pursue that separately.
Military spending will probably have to be included in spending cuts House Republicans are insisting on, he said. Kingston said he would like to see federal spending reduced from 24 percent of the gross domestic product to something approaching 18 percent.
On the revenue side, Kingston said House Republicans are willing to take some suggestions from U.S. Sen. Saxby Chambliss when it comes to the elimination of some tax subsidies in order to boost revenue that can be applied to the federal debt.
“If it’s a tax loophole that helps one industry to the detriment of others, I think we’d certainly want to close it,” Kingston said. “If it’s a wealthy individual and they’re skating on their taxes, nobody’s in favor of that.”
Chambliss, in particular, has raised the possibility of eliminating tax deductions for the interest on mortgages on second homes.
“I think you could argue that. You could also even say flood insurance on a second home. National flood insurance is subsidized heavily,” Kingston said. “It’s consistent with the Republican philosophy of both tax simplification and tax fairness to look at things that only a select few industries or portions of the population can take advantage of.
“I’m not convinced that there’s real revenue in it, but for the sake of good faith, I don’t think we should run from that,” Kingston said.
- By Jim Galloway, Political Insider
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149 comments Add your comment
Cutty
July 9th, 2011
3:22 pm
Quotes by Graves, Broun, and Woodall easily shows the incompetence of the Georgia voter. Some of these same jokers had no problem raising the debt ceiling 6 times under a republican administration, with absolutely no spending cuts. Now, republicans believe defaulting on our debt is somehow a myth that won’t affect our economy and world markets. Blame should be placed at the feet of every person that voted for these limp-wristed morons.
Nick
July 9th, 2011
3:27 pm
Its pretty obvious that Kingston is the only grown up in the group. Kudos for doing what is in the best interest of the country.
Morning Jacket
July 9th, 2011
3:34 pm
Enter your comments here
Centrist
July 9th, 2011
3:34 pm
This is hardly the biggest bet the world has ever seen – it is typical last minute U.S. politics.
When the Republicans agreed to eliminating the awful ethanol subsidy the left wing claimed was a good energy alternative, Galloway and other Democrats gleefully called it a tax increase and how it opened the door for more. At least now he has dropped the demagoguery and correctly says “not through tax rate increases, but the elimination of tax breaks”.
There is not much revenue compared to the needed spending cuts in the current proposals of a millionaire tax, closing tax loopholes and subsidies. But the “fairness” issue may be enough to get both sides to move toward the middle. Of course, we will mostly get smoke and mirrors in the final deal and have to face this issue again soon when there is no proof in the pudding.
Morning Jacket
July 9th, 2011
3:36 pm
Re headline about Republicans having Boehner’s back. With this bunch, I’d check for knives.
Joe Smith
July 9th, 2011
3:39 pm
The fact that you are confusing the debt and the deficit just shows how hopeless it is to think there will be any sort of intelligent discussion of these issues.
td
July 9th, 2011
3:51 pm
Which of Georgia’s eight Republican members of the House are likely to join their speaker?
Which ever ones agree to raising taxes will certainly have a primary challenge and will probably lose their seat.
Centrist
July 9th, 2011
4:01 pm
Static tax analysis only works for gimmick accounting. If there is an added millionaire tax, those folks will simply have more of their personal income switched to stock options which are currently taxed as capital gains of 15%. Folks reading here are likely to be in higher tax brackets without such capital gains. This is all part of our purposely convoluted tax code.
td
July 9th, 2011
4:01 pm
“If it’s a tax loophole that helps one industry to the detriment of others, I think we’d certainly want to close it,”
Only if the tax loophole allows jobs to be shipped overseas. I think we should give an incentives to companies to open jobs in the USA.
td
July 9th, 2011
4:02 pm
Centrist
July 9th, 2011
4:01 pm
Do away with all income and capitol gains taxes and institute a fair tax.
rawmilkdrinker
July 9th, 2011
4:03 pm
I keep waiting for McDonalds to announce a 40% reduction in the price of Big Macs and a 50% drop in price of fries so as to double their net profits. Perhaps Delta, Airtran and Ga Power will cut their fares and electric rates in half. Then By God they will be able to pay off their company debts in no time at all.
jsmtih
July 9th, 2011
4:09 pm
Instead of everyone being so concerned with tax loop holes and tax cuts , why not focus on getting rid of government waste and government jobs and entitlement programs, all you have to know about what the hell is wrong with the USA is the fact that people WANT and EXPECT government help and more gov programs??? 30 to 40 years ago no one with any pride wanted a government job or a government handout.. people used to dream of making a life better for themselves and their children, now people dream of getting a cushy gov job and having a retirement where they get two times out more then they put in?? and get takin care of by tax payers the rest of their lives
Tom E. Gunn
July 9th, 2011
4:41 pm
As those of us in NGA already know, Graves never misses a chance to talk no matter if makes any sense or not. IF concessions are made on both sides, and a deal can be made, that is politics, and it should be passed for the good of the economy. If these guys let the economy tank again, they will find they have opposition no matter which way they vote.
Monty Python
July 9th, 2011
5:01 pm
Price is the true clown here. Broun is just scary. Price frames the debate in terms of raising taxes on the average American family, as if someone has suggested doing that. Price is having a separate debate in his own mind. He just spouts slogans and never does anything to help. As a long suffering member of his district, it is time to cut Price and move on.
double
July 9th, 2011
5:02 pm
getting rid of gov.jobs,.Both employed,and elected.Term limits would cut luxiours retirement,and benefits.
Centrist
July 9th, 2011
5:06 pm
No way politicians of either party will allow the Fair Tax to pass. Tax policy is used to help politicians, their friends and family, buy votes, and pay off special interests in exchange for campaign contributions.
td
July 9th, 2011
5:22 pm
Centrist
July 9th, 2011
5:06 pm
No way politicians of either party will allow the Fair Tax to pass. Tax policy is used to help politicians, their friends and family, buy votes, and pay off special interests in exchange for campaign contributions.
I am afraid you are exactly right.
Willis
July 9th, 2011
5:37 pm
Woodall brags about his free heath insurance because “it’s there” but wants to take Medicare away from seniors. He and the other dangerous scumbags should be kicked out of office.
Centrist
July 9th, 2011
5:46 pm
Willis posts: “Woodall brags about his free heath insurance because “it’s there” but wants to take Medicare away from seniors.”
While I don’t disagree, you could say the same for Democrats concerning Obamacare – Pelosi: “We Have to Pass the Bill So That You Can Find Out What Is In It”.
double
July 9th, 2011
6:06 pm
If voters are serious,then demand term limits,this way you can get some control.It’s not to our benefit to have a monopoly(either party)Nor is shutting down the government.
Carimar
July 9th, 2011
6:19 pm
Kill the government, and re-engineer it from the ground up. The system is broke and nobody can put it back together again. Sooner the better.
double
July 9th, 2011
6:32 pm
In previous post someone posted the progression of a failed democracy,then a dictatorship.When ours fail,then we will see a word wide dictatorship.This is in my opinion,reason you are seeing other countries being attacked by our troops,and/or being supported by us in rebellion.One world order one world government on the horizion.
Karen R.
July 9th, 2011
6:36 pm
The South is 100 years behind.
carpetbagger
July 9th, 2011
6:58 pm
“Neither wins with a Wall Street meltdown, which is what we’re assured will happen if the pair don’t reach an agreement on raising the federal government’s borrowing limit by Aug. 2″
Jimbo, while you’ve got that crystal ball out, would you mind passing on tonight’s winning Powerball numbers?
kc
July 9th, 2011
7:06 pm
repubs ran up the debt and don’t want to pay for it…..left current prez with biggest bag of dung since 1930s, just like hoover they suck
http://zfacts.com/p/1195.html
President
July 9th, 2011
7:13 pm
I almost hope we default on the debt and stop making social security payments. If Obama had any sense he would realize that these people don’t just oppose his policies, they HATE HIM. That want him to fail so bad that they would like to see the country go down.
If we really implemented the policies they advocate (no social security, no medicare, no student loans ect) it would be the end to their party. They advocate positions that the majority of Georgians and Amercians oppose. I say let them have their way so that we could be rid of them.
Lets just be real, so much of the hatred for Obama in the south is driven by the fact that he is black.
Sam I Am
July 9th, 2011
7:13 pm
The republican house passes a 17 billion defense bill increase , what happened to less spending?
yuzeyurbrane
July 9th, 2011
7:38 pm
This is one proud Senior who will not walk quietly to the gas chamber. I will vote against the President and any Congressman or Senator I can who touches my Medicare or Social Security. Mr. President, grow some cohones!
hl
July 9th, 2011
7:40 pm
I’m still waiting for the Bush tax cuts to stimulate the economy so we can have zero unemployment.
Centrist
July 9th, 2011
7:48 pm
Ignoring the fact that both Medicare and Social Security improvements that bought votes can’t be paid for is just plain ignorance. Phasing in raising the age for future beneficiaries and trimming the give-a-aways to those who didn’t EARN the benefits is the best way out. Hopefully a majority of our representatives and the electorate will ignore the ignorant.
Big Daddy
July 9th, 2011
8:41 pm
Woodall is nothing but a Linder pimp-clone. He represents Gwinnett county, which votes for anything that moves IF the “R.” is attached His opponent in 2008 was Democrat Heckman, a West Point Green Beret. Woodall clobbered him.
vuduchld
July 9th, 2011
9:09 pm
Who cares what these maggots think. At the end of the day they will be made to look like fools again because President Obama will out wit them at they’re own game. You hillbilly Jawjians sure love voting incompetent idiots into office don’t you.
kc
July 9th, 2011
9:23 pm
boehner saying no to big deal…..the party in charge when debt created will not help payt the tab by hitting their rich buds…..who pay for these clowns
frankee
July 9th, 2011
10:01 pm
close the loop holes, stop the fraud ;, and stop the wars , now, and build the fence arcoss the southern border, make the noncitizens leave. problem solved
frankee
July 9th, 2011
10:03 pm
oh yeah , term limits term limits, term limits, we should have representation not royalty on government.
td
July 9th, 2011
10:05 pm
hl
July 9th, 2011
7:40 pm
I’m still waiting for the Bush tax cuts to stimulate the economy so we can have zero unemployment
You will never have 0% unemployment because there is about 6% of the population that refuses to work. They just want to sit back and let the government take care of them.
td
July 9th, 2011
10:07 pm
vuduchld
July 9th, 2011
9:09 pm
Who cares what these maggots think. At the end of the day they will be made to look like fools again because President Obama will out wit them at they’re own game
This is why the spending cuts must come first for at least a couple of years and then we can think about revenue enhancements.
td
July 9th, 2011
10:10 pm
frankee
July 9th, 2011
10:03 pm
oh yeah , term limits term limits, term limits, we should have representation not royalty on government.
We have term limits every two years when you go to the polls and vote. The problem is the dumb masses think their own Senator of Representative is the best and all the others need to be replaced.
Bill Campbell
July 9th, 2011
10:19 pm
All blame should be on Obama! The most clueless President in American history will be voted out in 2012 and all those weak-kneed Republicans who don’t hold their ground! The Tea Party is the silent majority and now those voices will be heard just like 1776!
Boehner abandons comprehensive debt deal – CBS News | Conservatives for America
July 9th, 2011
10:46 pm
[...] 2 trillion dealSeattle Post IntelligencerDeficit Talks Scaled Back Over Tax IncreasesNew York TimesAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -Los Angeles Times -NewsChannel 9 WSYRall 2,959 news [...]
Gee
July 9th, 2011
10:57 pm
Mr. Campbell- Speaking of clueless… your 1776-rhetoric is very ironic. Here are two huge groups of Americans whose “voices” were NOT heard: 1) Women 2) Blacks. Let’s not try to relive the past, please.
yuzeyurbrane
July 9th, 2011
11:42 pm
Centrist, I will take your comment about Medicare and Social Security supporters being ignorant in the context of your other ignorant comments on the subject. You in fact are the one who is ignoring the facts. I have paid my FICA taxes for over 50 years as have millions of others and therefore am entitled to the other side of the social contract, namely SS and Medicare. I am happy that you are either so wealthy that all you care about is your regressive FAIR Tax proposal or you are so young as to foolishly ignore how well SS has served our society for 75 yrs. and with small modifications (namely, raising the regressive $105,000 cap on earnings subject to SS) can provide a foundation for a dignified retirement for Seniors, our children and grandchildren for another 75 years.
double
July 10th, 2011
12:22 am
Td you think the dumb masses think their rep./senator are the best,and all others need replaced.TD you can’t measure all the dumb masses by your bushel.
The Centrist
July 10th, 2011
1:40 am
You can probably count the number of people you know who are really impacted by short term capital gains taxes on one-hand. Just think where the budget would have been if we had gotten just 10% more in taxes from oil and stock speculators, mortgage and investment bankers, real estate flippers, and on “salary” increases more than $1 million.
Michael
July 10th, 2011
3:18 am
I agree with cutty commits. the republicans in this congress are not very American in the Leader of their party!!!! Please Pray to GOD above to help your loss poor Republicans that follow what their
leader saids. Which is known as not very smart.
Ghost Rider
July 10th, 2011
6:20 am
Stimulus spending and the play money printed by the Fed is working out great! The government now tells us that the unemployment rate is 9.2%. The truth is that it is much higher, and that these numbers fail to even address recent college graduates who are working at waiters and waitresses.
The simple truth is that the stimulus spending did absolutely no good, except to line the pockets of certain people as political payoffs. Just as President Roosevelt’s efforts failed during the First Great Depression, President Obama’s efforts have failed here in the Second Great Depression. History show us that only World War II brought the United States out of the First Depression. President Obama failed to learn from President Roosevelt’s failure and thus repeated history.
Why not raise the debt ceiling? After all, we only owe $14.5 trillion at present, so why will a few more trillion matter?
It is long past time to make very tough decisions, and these decisions are going to affect each and every one of us. This country had been operating WITHOUT A BUDGET for over two years now. Wouldn’t you think that a budget is something that is needed? Spending must be reduced, and it must be greatly reduced by elimination of unnecessary programs. The wonderful health care legislation just passed must be repealed in light of the ballooning costs over the next ten years as projected by the budget folks. Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid along with farm subsidies, foreign aid, defense spending, ACORN (Yes, they STILL receive federal funding) and EVERY ITEM IN THE BUDGET must be on the table and subject to either elimination or reduction.
This will not be a pretty picture, and I know that I will be affected by these cuts, but the hard choices have to made NOW.
Congress should put their salaries, retirement and other government goodies up for a vote by the citizens of this country. After all, what is good for the goose is good for the gander, right?
Capitol Idea
July 10th, 2011
6:23 am
Kudos to Kingston for showing some backbone as opposed to the likes of the tea party puppets.
big hat
July 10th, 2011
7:42 am
Never underestimate the GOP’s capacity to commit murder/suicide, just to prove they can. “We burned America to save it” …where have I heard something like that before?
jconservative
July 10th, 2011
7:48 am
Couple of thoughts.
The last time I checked the US Constitution only the members of the House and Senate get a vote on raising the debt limit. The President does not get a vote and the Vice only if there is a tie in the Senate. So why is everyone falling over themselves getting the President involved? The president will sign whatever is passed. Heck, Reagan had 16 debt limit increases to sign. Obama can sign his second in whatever form it emerges from Congress.
We are about to find out if the 9 presidents prior to Obama were incompetenents. All asked for, and received, a debt limit increase during their term.
dixiedemons
July 10th, 2011
8:16 am
When the rest of us get pissed enough to start behaving like our Republican counterparts do our nation will really become a third world country. That’s what will happen when you put your gang affiliation ahead of the greater good of the nation.
Phillip
July 10th, 2011
8:29 am
“Democrats in Congress are likely to rally to whatever cuts to entitlements Obama agrees to.” When I read that, I realized the writer was a clueless hack. (By the way, Nixon “defaulted” on the national debt when he refused to pay, as agreed, in gold.) You’re telling us that monstrosities like the Department of Agriculture which spends 75 cents of every dollar of GDP agriculture itself brings in (look up the numbers, they’re easy to Google) can’t be cut by 90% and save $125 Billion there?
Gawd, it’s gonna be great to be singing Dylan songs like “The Times They Are a Changin’” again. Bye bye democrats, you’ll never be given power again.
Phillip
July 10th, 2011
8:35 am
Karen wrote “The south is 100 years behind.”
If ONLY that were true. Then our fiscal and tax policies would be circa 1911, 2 years before the federal income tax and the Fed were created, when individual responsibility and private charity were still how most problems were managed in this country. I only wish snarky Karen was correct.
Frederick Douglass
July 10th, 2011
9:27 am
Phillip @ 8:35
And only 46 years after the biggest blight on this nation ended, yes S-L-A-V-E-R-Y. Individual responsibility. and charitable donations didn’t help the former chattle, and their descendants. No one wants to address it, but that was the monstrous elephant in the room in 1911, and while not as large now,remains a huge factor now.
tail wind
July 10th, 2011
9:37 am
Who would follow Chambliss, pretty dumb, he has tried to take them off cliff before, maybe he has some more Mexicans working frm him, since he loves the so much.
He want be reelected anyway
Real Athens
July 10th, 2011
10:23 am
J-Con:
Check out the 14th Amendment of the Constitution (sections 4 and 5) Some Constitutional scholars believe that the President can raise the debt limit without a Congressional or Senatorial vote if it comes down to it.
Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
Again, all the “congressman” mentioned in this article voted to raise the debt limit 6 times during the previous administration. Where was the Tea party then? Oh, I forgot they’re just Republicans in drag.
kc
July 10th, 2011
11:04 am
it would be nice of repubs who drove up more debt under reagan bush I II to come to the table and solve the problem. anyone believe cutting tax loopholes and hedge fund managers will result in massive job losses…..who can believe repubs as trickle down has been thoroughly repudiated…to hear tell repubs it is not fair to tax rich and not tax 50% of income earners…but it is likely true that top 1% hold 42% of financial wealth of country …does that seem fair
anne
July 10th, 2011
11:22 am
Get ready Westmoreland I will do everything I can to get you sorry – - – out of Washington. save your money stop sending out those stupid flyers. You should be ashamed of the way you have represented us.
Pike County
captguitarman
July 10th, 2011
11:25 am
Centrist and td, in addition to your right on comments about why politicians will never buy into a simple, fair tax plan (tax laws would no be of any use in punishing political enemies and awarding political friends and allies), there is another reason that something like that will never happen. Such a plan would wreak unemployment chaos for hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of highly paid, highly educated professionals, consultants, lawyers, lobbyists, etc. who make fantastic incomes helping clients to interpret (if possible) and then flank, avoid, get around, ignore, and then fight the unfavorable provisions in the bloated, illogical, ill-conceived, unfair, unfathomable, contradictory, full of loopholes tax laws we now have in place. A simple fair tax plan for this nation, as good as it would be for the vast majority of Americans and our economy will NEVER happen. Our political leaders are struggling even now – with still no sure signs of success – to make a deal necessry to stave off an econmic armageddon. How then could they ever make a deal to change a corrupt tax system with so many rich and powerful vested interests at stake, starting with their own?
td
July 10th, 2011
11:28 am
anne
July 10th, 2011
11:22 am
Have fun trying but I do not think you have much of a chance since he is in a district that voted for him in the last election by over 65%.
td
July 10th, 2011
11:33 am
kc
July 10th, 2011
11:04 am
it would be nice of repubs who drove up more debt under reagan bush I II to come to the table and solve the problem.
Obama has risen the debt, in almost 2 1/2 years, as them combined in 20 years.
Frederick Douglass
July 10th, 2011
11:48 am
td @ 11:22
It’s hard to imagine that 65% of Lynn Westmoreland’s district is sitting at home beaming from ear to ear because they sent an absolute piece of deer crap to Washington. These are indeed interesting times we are living in, what’s up is down, and what’s down is up……Jeeze!
td
July 10th, 2011
11:55 am
Frederick Douglass
July 10th, 2011
11:48 am
What has Westmoreland done that has your panties in such a wad this morning?
Don Abernethy
July 10th, 2011
12:10 pm
Why not declare bankruptcy and get rid of our debt then send everyone in the Senate and House and
Whitehouse home. Erase all laws except the constitution. Start all over again.
t-bone
July 10th, 2011
12:55 pm
Since taking office, Obama’s spending has exceeded George Bush’s spending by more than $1 trillion per year. You mean to tell me that if we returned to the spending levels of just three years ago that the country wouldn’t be able to survive? Returning to the the Bush budget, which Obama constantly labled as excessive during the campaign, would save the country over $10 trillion in the next decade. These dumbarses in both parties are just worried about the election and not what is in the best interest of the country. We don’t have leaders, we have politicians. Leaders would never have gotten us in this mess in the first place. Politics will be our destruction.
ATL Guy
July 10th, 2011
1:27 pm
The one thing that people aren’t doing is extrapolating the disastrous impacts of the series of Bush tax cuts pushed through by the Republicans and extended by Pres Obama. Since the enactment of the first set of Bush tax cuts, the country’s surplus has been squandered and the economy has been in a downfall. The more tax cuts the Republicans pushed, the more precarious the nation’s finances became, the bigger the imbalance between the wealthy and the poor and the worse off the employment picture became. Ever since Obama extended the Bush tax cuts, hiring has slowed, the deficit has continued to grow and the wealthy has continued to get wealthier. Yet, the Republicans think the solution to our problems is…….more tax cuts. Have a headache? Here’s a tax cut. The cat ran away from home….here’s a tax cut. The kids aren’t eating their veggies….here’s a tax cut. Yet the more we cut taxes the worse our nation’s finances become.
I don’t believe that the Republicans will ever agree to any deal. The President has to put everything on the table – including Medicare and Social Security – yet still insist on even limited tax increases to show just far off the deep end the Republicans have gone. Obama should continue to put things that Republicans have argued against for decades in the mix but still insist on tax cuts just so that people can see where their value system has degraded too.
Corey
July 10th, 2011
1:42 pm
My fair minded fellow and rational thinking Americans, the only view of our government we see is what’s presented via the media. Controversy sells, and the punditry, aka talking, heads play the game so well. We see this or that politician appear befor the camera for about 30 seconds and spew this or that venom because he or she thinks it emboldens their party, and sadly the media keeps this carnival front and center. Yes, the issue of defaulting on the nation’s obligations is serious business, however; the media would lead us to believe that whenever two mebers of Congress from opposing parties encounter each other all hell breaks loose. Nothing could be further from the truth. Relax. These men and women may not always include what each of us believes should be in or left out of legislation, but that’s the system we have which represents over 350 million persons with a myriad of values and interests.
Ghost Rider
July 10th, 2011
1:47 pm
This was President (then Senator) Obama’s view on raising the debt ceiling in 2006:
“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
I do not diagree with him: it is a leadership failure and America does deserve better.
Paul Randall
July 10th, 2011
2:50 pm
How do you define “tax loophole”?
cs
July 10th, 2011
3:33 pm
the con exposed is a better headline. rep kingston and the house gop is all for cutting spending…just not the 150 million a year they send to brazillian cotton growers. lets cut tom price is all for cutting…..just not the 687 billion war mongering budget. hell, just cutting 200 billion from that monster will save 2 trillion over a decade! the gop is full of crap and the tea party and republican party at all costs worshippers are being taken for a ride. i am for some cuts but also for some revenue increases. going back to some former tax rates is a good idea to pay off debt as just balancing the budget is not good enough for me.
td
July 10th, 2011
3:59 pm
cs
July 10th, 2011
3:33 pm
You and your liberal friends just do not understand that the military is one of the true functions of the Federal government. All these social service entitlement programs should be cut to zero before the military is touched. IF you think these wars are wrong then why did not Obama and the Democratic led congress end them?
td
July 10th, 2011
4:00 pm
Ghost Rider
July 10th, 2011
1:47 pm
Where are all the Democratic defenders when you quote Obama and they do not like it?
The Centrist
July 10th, 2011
4:03 pm
Despite these dire predictions, the tax cuts we passed contributed to a record 52 months of job creation. (Applause.) They helped produce strong economic growth — and the increased revenues from that growth have put us on track to a balance our budget by 2012. (Applause.) Here is the bottom line: tax relief works. George W. Bush, 2008 State of the Union Address. What he did not mention was that…”We are already running a $1 trillion budget deficit and $9.5 trillion in debt. By 2012, when the increased revenues because of the tax cuts will offset spending approved by the GOP, the debt under my leadership will be $13.5 trillion, and folks this will be before additional increases made if a liberal Democrat succeeds me as President (Applause). Did we miss something in the historical translative addition?
Rural Education
July 10th, 2011
4:07 pm
Bush never included the price of his wars in the budget. It was all under supplemental spending. Obama includes the cost, this is a large part of his deficit
double
July 10th, 2011
4:15 pm
Yeah with debased $.
Ghost Rider
July 10th, 2011
4:20 pm
td:
“Where are all the Democratic defenders when you quote Obama and they do not like it?”
I have no idea, sir. These were the Presiden’t (Senator’s) words in 2006. Either he lied then or he is lying now.
kc
July 10th, 2011
4:32 pm
td, sure obama ran up some debt because bush left him on edge of cliff when economy tanked causing more deficit and two wars that should have been over long ago casusing more spending….at least half the obama debt can be directly linked to bush’s issues. now obama tries to put dent in debt with reported 3 or 4 times spending cuts vs revenue generators but repubs can’t take yes for an answer….what a bunch of dimwits
kc
July 10th, 2011
4:45 pm
how many times did repubs raise the debt ceiling under georgie
cs
July 10th, 2011
4:48 pm
td, you and your hypocrite war mongering friends need to spread the pain rather than demanding your cake and eat it to. the republic was founded with desiring minding our own business in mind. sounds like some smart folks back then eh?
its simple as the egg on your face. your heroes the gop does the budget in the house. they have more than enough votes to cut military funding. protecting mcdonalds in china exxon in iraq aint one of governments real duties.
td
July 10th, 2011
4:59 pm
kc
July 10th, 2011
4:45 pm
how many times did repubs raise the debt ceiling under georgie
And how many times has it already been raised under Obama? When do we stop putting everything on the credit card and start paying off some of the debt instead of passing it off to our children and grand children? We are killing our children and grand children’s futures because we are to selfish to take one fewer trips a year or eat out a couple times less a month. We should be ashamed of ourselves but I can see some of us just keep saying “give me more”.
td
July 10th, 2011
5:05 pm
kc
July 10th, 2011
4:32 pm
“3 or 4 times spending cuts vs revenue generators”
Our revenues are basically the same as they were when Clinton was in office but our expenditures in domestic spending has increased by 25% since Obama took office. Why can we not just go back to the spending levels when Bush was in office? We do not have a revenue problem in this country we have a spending (credit card) problem and we are addicted to getting handouts from the government.
We have cut the spending in Georgia by 25% in the last 5 years (some departments by more than 50%). Is it really effecting services that much? Why can not the Federal government do the same thing?
kc
July 10th, 2011
5:05 pm
td, the repubs are truly dumb if they don’t take a 4 trillion debt reduction plan…..if they are right on the issues they can do more after the election or do they really work for MOTU
cs
July 10th, 2011
5:07 pm
td, i agree with you when you say…. “When do we stop putting everything on the credit card and start paying off some of the debt instead of passing it off to our children and grand children”.
glad you realizing taxes have to go up.
cs
July 10th, 2011
5:11 pm
td, you say…Our revenues are basically the same as they were when Clinton was in office but our expenditures in domestic spending has increased by 25% since Obama took office
i see. using your figures and own logic it appears you are comfortable with the 8 trillion of debt george w bush administration laid on us? when and how does the gop faithful plan on paying that back?
td
July 10th, 2011
5:11 pm
cs
July 10th, 2011
4:48 pm
Like I said before, the Democrats had control of both houses and the White house for two years with super majorities. If the wars were that bad then why did they not end them? Why did Obama follow the policies of Bush and actually double down in Afghanistan? Could it be because both parties feels the wars were in the best interest of the United States?
You far leftest and isolationist on the right think we can just leave the world alone and it does not effect us. How did 9/11 work out for us? You people live in some fantasy world that think no one wants to harm us. You all really should wake up someday.
cs
July 10th, 2011
5:15 pm
td, like i said, the gop has the house now. i am no leftist by a long shot. but if we arent living in the same world when you gonna wake up and realize that medicare and social securoity are apart of todays world then? just using your own logic and arguments here.
td
July 10th, 2011
5:15 pm
cs
July 10th, 2011
5:11 pm
i see. using your figures and own logic it appears you are comfortable with the 8 trillion of debt george w bush administration laid on us? when and how does the gop faithful plan on paying that back?
It is basic economics. When the economy grows then more more will come in and as a result revenues will increase. The problem is and has always been keeping the politicians hands off the increased revenue and paying off the debt. This is why we pass a balanced budget amendment and make the Federal government operate the same way most state governments have to operate.
cs
July 10th, 2011
5:24 pm
td, whats with the isolationist labeling? does that make you an EXPENSIVE TRADE AGREEMENT promoter? oh, that’s right, yall call it FREE trade. aint a thing FREE about it from where most americans sit.
gm
July 10th, 2011
5:26 pm
Its is amazing to hear Rep hypocrites now all of sudden care about our grand kids and spending, Bush raised the debt ceiling 11 times and spent money like their was no end with a good economy, and you never once heard Boehner and the hypocrities say a word.
Its obvious around the world that the rep party are doing everthing to halt this economy to make President Obama look like a failue, even at the expense of the American people, but we have to many stupid tea party idiots, who can not see this, because of their own hate ful bigotery.
The Rep party has been in control since Nov, how many job bills have they come up with? at least the Dem came up with something, these retards on the right continue to get support by a bunch of low self esteem low middle class whites who have no clue how they are being expolited over over.
God help these sickos in this country”””
cs
July 10th, 2011
5:26 pm
td, its a kind of vodoo economics or better yet, what is called a ponzi scheme.
kc
July 10th, 2011
5:26 pm
td, you are forgetting the repubs in senate have threatened filibuster an unprecedented number of times in early obama admin….
think you are wrong on revenue claim as i read this chart:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200
Ghost Rider
July 10th, 2011
5:28 pm
Maintaining a strong military and the defense of the United States and its’ interests abroad is one of the few responsibilities of the federal government. President Obama has had more than adequate time to bring the military forces home from Iraq and Afghanistan if he had chosen to do so. Despite blaming everything from the sinking of the Titanic to the dwindling bee population on President Bush, President Obama has done remarkably little to change anything that the former President was doing.
Those who wish to continue their lives with very little or no change from the current elected officials are simply “whistling past the graveyard”. Our indebtedness is $14.5 trillion and growing every second. We simply must make the necessary cuts in our spending so as to not borrow further, and we must begin to repay this debt. There is No OTHER SOLUTION to our problem.
If blame is to be placed for the current indebtedness, let us place it where it rightfully belongs. One political party has bought votes through the creation of entitlement programs. They soon reasoned that expanded entitlement programs would produce an expanded voter pool, and they worked diligently toward that end. We see today the true cost of such folly. My assumption is that I need not name the political party which has pursued this course at the expense of all American citizens.
cs
July 10th, 2011
5:29 pm
gm, you sound like one of them minority whiners of the left…you know, a really smart chad voter. if all you can do is get on the blame whitey bandwagon go back to coloring crayons and let the grownups do the posting.
cs
July 10th, 2011
5:32 pm
Maintaining a strong military and the defense of the United States and its’ interests abroad
there we go again with “our” interests abroad. a pipeline through europe aint my interest. morphine outta afghanistan aint my interest. whether or not south korea makes hyundais aint my interest. whether israel is run by jews or arabs i dont care…etc etc etc etc….
cs
July 10th, 2011
5:36 pm
One political party has bought votes through the creation of entitlement programs.
you got that right ghost rider. the gop with farm subsidies from corn right on through to cotton. the house just voted to keep sending brazillian cotton growers 150 million per year during this “we serious about cutting” comedy.
the gop with tax incentives entitling certain businesses at the expense of others
the gop medicare part d con and ripoff..
etc etc etc..
kc
July 10th, 2011
5:36 pm
ghost can you read, if obama did not have to contend with a filibuster maven senate, he likely would have done more to get the economy moving
would you take 4 trillion in cuts for raising revenues by closing loopholes and taxing hedge fund managers appropriately…show us the cost benefit of these loopholes please
double
July 10th, 2011
6:02 pm
Obama sets precedent by telling lies.Precedent by wanting to raise debt ceiling.Geo. Wash. only president that could not lie,well he could but would’nt. must be some td’s ancestors.
Clinton "Skink" Tyree
July 10th, 2011
7:00 pm
I haven’t used this word in years, but it seems appropriate at this juncture: the folks in Georgia have amassed a good size group of “idiots” who couldn’t find their butts with both hands.
And, so it goes. . . .
Frederick Douglass
July 10th, 2011
7:01 pm
You know who I don’t hear much about anymore, Herman Cain?
td
July 10th, 2011
7:03 pm
gm
July 10th, 2011
5:26 pm
“The Rep party has been in control since Nov, how many job bills have they come up with?”
They passed a repealing of Obama care and have passed bills to open back up the gulf to drilling. Most industry have said they will not add jobs due to Obama care and the mandates on them and opening back up the gulf would create 100,000 jobs and reduce the price of gas. Why didn’t the Democratic controlled Senate pass those bills?
Ghost Rider
July 10th, 2011
7:05 pm
cs:
I would direct your attention to the following covering the origin of farm subsidies:
http://www.fee.org/pdf/the-freeman/0604Folsom.pdf
“the gop with tax incentives entitling certain businesses at the expense of others”
I am not sure what you mean by this. Please elaborate.
The Republicans own Medicare Part D. It proved to be a drug bill written by drug companies with a fraudulent cost projection.
Frederick Douglass
July 10th, 2011
7:07 pm
My drill instructor had a pretty good saying also Clinton, ” they couldn’t pour piss out of a boot, if the instructions were written on the soles”.
Ghost Rider
July 10th, 2011
7:20 pm
kc:
“ghost can you read, if obama did not have to contend with a filibuster maven senate, he likely would have done more to get the economy moving”
President Obama can’t get the economy moving. Raising taxes in a “down economy” will further hurt the economy. Businesses fear President Obama since he has made no secret of the fact that he considers business to be the “enemy”. President Obama’s health care act has done its’ part in stifling the economy. These same factors are responsible for the current unemployment rate. No business will expand, especially if they currently employ fewer than the number of persons that would require them to conform to the new health care law.
In short, business owners have no confidence that they will be permitted to operate their businesses without further governmental “surprises”.
cs
July 10th, 2011
7:31 pm
ghost rider, as far as farm subsidies, i might not have fathered a potential adopted son but i fed him until he is the giant today.
corpoarte wefare corporate welfare corporate welfare, from cash to tax incentives, to confiscating property at fire sale prices, etc etc etc
lets not leave out the new dept of homeland security. seems every new president has to create a new dept and then that parties own backers whine about the growth of government.
cs
July 10th, 2011
7:33 pm
tsk tsk tsk ghost rider….you said President Obama can’t get the economy moving. Raising taxes in a “down economy” will further hurt the economy.
ask every “expert” even the gop types if cutting spending will do the same thing.
cs
July 10th, 2011
7:37 pm
and again you say…
In short, business owners have no confidence that they will be permitted to operate their businesses without further governmental “surprises”.
lets add shall we workers have no confidence in working as they are unsure of any more potential “surprises” from gop anti- worker agendas….like cuts in retirement plans, cuts in medical plans, cuts in social security payments, cuts in wages, cuts here cuts there while aint no cuts or pain sharing going to the top etc etc etc….
td
July 10th, 2011
7:38 pm
cs
July 10th, 2011
7:31 pm
“lets not leave out the new dept of homeland security. seems every new president has to create a new dept and then that parties own backers whine about the growth of government”
Now we agree. We should do away with the Federal Department of Education tomorrow. While we are at it, the Feds need to get out of the college loan business.
cs
July 10th, 2011
7:48 pm
how can we do away with the dept of indoctrination and not homeyland security?
cs
July 10th, 2011
7:49 pm
and get out the business loan backing business, the home loan backing business, etc etc etc etc etc
Clinton "Skink" Tyree
July 10th, 2011
8:33 pm
@cs— Business owners will not hire new workers until the workers they have cannot produce enough goods and services to meet demand. Period. And, the truth of the matter is that workers are scared they’ll lose their jobs so they’re doing the work of two or three. Only when they burn out will employers hire additional workers.
On the bigger stage, CEO’s are squeezing current employees for productivity gains and pocketing enormous salaries and stock options because the bottom line looks great with the lower head-count.
cs
July 10th, 2011
8:36 pm
we serious about spending cuts says RepubliCONS. just not taxpayer funded racecars. therefore, lets pay for some more besides an army etc car. how about the foodstamp dept sponsored number 87 dodge? the medicaid dept sponsored number 54 chevy? the bank bailout number 36 toyota> etc etc etc.
we serious by golly-gop
cs
July 10th, 2011
8:39 pm
Clinton “Skink” Tyree —well i am all for doubling or trippling their corporate taxes and others then. aint but so much money to go around and when you got several trillion sitting in corporate bank vaults…….
T K O
July 10th, 2011
9:14 pm
All the liberal know-it-all’s like to spew their same old tired crap. Keep it up folks…..hello…. you folks voted for Obama.
Probably a good time to sit down and STHU!
td
July 10th, 2011
9:20 pm
Clinton “Skink” Tyree
July 10th, 2011
8:33 pm
So who do you want to tax the corporations or the evil CEO’s? How about all the money we currently exempt: Child support, Food Stamps and Medicaid? We tax Social Security and corporations have to pay taxes on insurance they pay for employee’s so why should these programs get a pass. There is a lot more money in these programs then CEO’s salaries and would bring in a lot more revenue.
Frederick Douglass
July 10th, 2011
9:26 pm
TKO @ 9:14
You folks voted Dubya in twice, which is 94.5% of the reason we’re where we are now. Frigging twice, I still can’t believe there are so many ovines in this country.
td
July 10th, 2011
9:39 pm
Frederick Douglass
July 10th, 2011
9:26 pm
TKO @ 9:14
You folks voted Dubya in twice, which is 94.5% of the reason we’re where we are now. Frigging twice, I still can’t believe there are so many ovines in this country
I can not believe you just said that when after next year Obama will take Jimmy Carter’s place as the worst President this country has ever had.
Frederick Douglass
July 10th, 2011
10:21 pm
td @ 9:39
First of all let me thank you for your service to this great nation, because surely you must’ve been staioned on the Mir space outpost from 2000-2008. Bush was gawd awful, and I’m convinced, a tad brain damaged to boot. Your problem with Obama, is that you had your mind made up beforehand to view anything the guy does as failure, a condition commonly referred to as prejudice. In a nutshell, Dubya’s the odds on favorite as the worst president in history, in duplicate.
td
July 10th, 2011
10:46 pm
Frederick Douglass
July 10th, 2011
10:21 pm
My friend you really shoud go back and do a little reserch on how historians rate Presidents. Winning wars is on the top of the list. The way Bush handled 9/11 and won the war against the world’s 5th largest military will set him up as one of the top 15 Presidents of all time.
“Your problem with Obama, is that you had your mind made up beforehand to view anything the guy does as failure, a condition commonly referred to as prejudice”
You are absolutely right about having my mind made up beforehand but not because of his race. I did my homework. Obama was rated as the most progressive member of the senate. I actually read his books and knew exactly what he was. A SOCIALIST. He and his ideas before the election have turned out to be totally true so I feel vindicated in my opinion and unless something happens dramatically in the next year and a half then the historians will not look favorably at his Presidency. How is Hoover viewed as a President. Double dip recession, unemployment from 5.7% the day he took office to 9.2% now, National debt doubled under his administration. How are those things going to look in history? Now he will get credit for killing Osama and for continuing to follow the Bush policies in Iraq and Afghanistan. Libya is still a question mark.
Frederick Douglass
July 10th, 2011
11:27 pm
td @ 10:46
Which war did Bush win? As of an hour ago, all of the wars that this country has been involved in for the past decade are still on going. I wonder how historians will look back on the fact that Dubya started a war based on bogus intelligence (mostly his own), then lied to the American people about financing it with oil money. You isolationists will never quite grasp the fact that the economic crisis is global, and that the places that are doing better than us, are the one’s that we ran our jobs off to (China, India, ect.). I have some sobering news for you td, those jobs that we shed under Bush, Clinton, Bush Sr, and Reagan, aren’t coming back, and especially if we get a republican in the White House in the near future.
Teddy Roosevelt
July 11th, 2011
12:03 am
I am in favor of cutting all of costs, both in entitlement programs and in military spending.
I am not a big fan of our globalism(read empire) and think it makes more sense to spend money building schools here than half way across the world. Maybe they hate us not because of all of our freedoms, but because we blew up their house and killed their friends and family?
big hat
July 11th, 2011
12:36 am
It was only a few years ago that people who wanted to shut down the government were called ANARCHISTS and thrown in jail. Now they’re on every Sunday talk show. Not a good sign.
“I am an Antichrist, I am an anarchist, I know what I want and I know how to get it, I wanna destroy passerby, ‘Cause I wanna be anarchy, In the city”
“Anarchy for the US, It’s coming sometime maybe, I give a wrong time stop a traffic line, Your future dream is a shopping scheme.” Etc., etc., etc.
The Centrist
July 11th, 2011
3:17 am
td knows the reason”Why didn’t the Democratic controlled Senate pass those bills?” 60-votes!!!Kennedy died and was replaced by Brown. Libermann, Nelson, Landreu, and Lincoln held up bills being self-serving, and Republicans said “No” to every bill, including those they had previously sponsored or voted for in the past.
kc
July 11th, 2011
6:22 am
td, how long did it take our country to recover from the depression…probably same reason back then, repubs fought fdr on recovery methods. sure big govt is sometimes sinister and must be guarded against, you believe health care for all is bad just as others believe repubs use govt to reward certain elites thru tax code….it is delicate balance between too much and too little. i’ll ask the question again….why does top 1% own43% of financial wealth in this country? doesn’t seem very socialist to me….well maybe it is, that’s probably the way it was in russia at its zenith.
kc
July 11th, 2011
6:52 am
food for thought:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woIkIph5xcU
td
July 11th, 2011
9:05 am
kc
July 11th, 2011
6:22 am
“why does top 1% own43% of financial wealth in this country?”
Well kc lets take a quick look. Microsoft has created the richest man in the world, 4 other billionaires and 400 millionaires (top 1%). They also are a big source of revenue for millions of peoples retirement accounts that hold their stock. These people produce a products that billions of people around the world want to use. They pay what the market demands for the product.
Do all of these workers not deserve to be compensated for their work? Should they not be compensated what the markets says they are worth? If they should not then what should happen to all the extra money coming into the corporation? Should the government confiscate it and give it to non producers?
If you want to go down the list then we could talk about Oracle, Walmart ect. This is where most of the wealth is concentrated.
Ouch.
July 11th, 2011
9:13 am
::sigh:: That “amendment” that everyone is talking about…seems like a lot of folks don’t know their civics. Yep, 2/3 of both Houses of Congress would have to pass it and THEN it goes to the states. 3/4 of the individual states ALSO need to pass it. Rand Paul not withstanding, it takes a lot more than just a vote in Congress to amend the Constitution.
From the US Constitution, Article Five:
“The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.”
kc
July 11th, 2011
9:59 am
td, did not know there were that many non producers in our society….the other 99%…your crowd probably does not believe in climate change either…man made….well have a toasty week there mon ami
td
July 11th, 2011
10:17 am
kc
July 11th, 2011
9:59 am
td, did not know there were that many non producers in our society
Let us see: 48% pay no taxes. That means they make very little money. 25% of our country receives Food Stamps. Yes I would say there is a lot of non producers.
I answered your question. Why did you avoid ansering mine?
kc
July 11th, 2011
11:03 am
my guess is some of the 99% work a lot harder than 1%; folks at top should keep majority of their money…and should be rewarded. a reasonable tax rate as found under clinton would be seem appropriate. buffett should be paying percentage wise at least as much as his secretary and so should hedge fund managers. kent conrad of senate as submitted proposal to increasse tax on higher income folks and that is sensible.
your revenue assertion was wrong annd i gave you chart and you chose to ignore that issue…..
td
July 11th, 2011
11:30 am
Why is Buffets tax rates lower then his secretary? I do not know the exact answer but one would guess that it has something to do with him getting paid with stock options (No income tax but capital gains tax) and that he had a great deal of off sets. You know like charitable contributions, stock loss, rental property ect. I am betting his secretary did not have those write offs. If I am not mistaken he is in the 35% tax bracket and if I remember the story correctly his secretary was in the 25% so this has nothing to do with the tax bracket rates. It has to do with write offs.
“folks at top should keep majority of their money”
How much is the majority 51%? The top 1% are in the 35% tax bracket. They pay state taxes (6% in Georgia), sales taxes (7% in Georgia), 3% Medicare tax on all income and SS tax (7% if they work for a company and 14% if self employed on the first $120,000 made). Plus they pay county property taxes and if in a city then those too. When you add all of these up then you are close to or above 50% now. According to your own statement they are paying enough now.
td
July 11th, 2011
11:32 am
kc
July 11th, 2011
11:03 am
my guess is some of the 99% work a lot harder than 1%; folks at top should keep majority of their money
And they get paid what the market place says the value is on the skill set they have. The more unique the skill set you have the more you make.
kc
July 11th, 2011
11:37 am
there are caps on medicare and ss and rich spend lesser percentage of income on sales tax….i have looked at studies that suggest poor/middle class pay same % of their income for all taxes as upper class. not in absolute dollars, but same percentage of their income. if you want i’ll go find them.
you avoided commenting on revenue issue again….why, because you were wrong. as you are on this matter.
kc
July 11th, 2011
11:48 am
td, here is study on state and local tax analysis by income groups for state taxes…check out ga….
i have other duties today, manana
kc
July 11th, 2011
11:48 am
http://www.itepnet.org/whopays3.pdfEnter your comments here
kc
July 11th, 2011
11:49 am
http://www.itepnet.org/whopays3.pdf
sorry did not post correctly
kc
July 11th, 2011
11:54 am
one final comment…as i posted i listened to prez news conference….can anyone in repub party believe that georgie could have done this, even with his mba from harvard, bush couldn’t get this right if it were on a teleprompter.
td
July 11th, 2011
12:05 pm
kc
July 11th, 2011
11:49 am
This is a progressive think tank funded study. It is endorsed by the daily kos, huffington post and the progressive caucus in the House of reps. I looked at the whole website and all they talk about is how regressive taxes are for the poor. Can you find similar studies from more neutral sources? This one is totally bogus.
I stand by my numbers.
td
July 11th, 2011
12:09 pm
kc
July 11th, 2011
11:37 am
there are caps on medicare and ss and rich spend lesser percentage of income on sales tax….i have looked at studies that suggest poor/middle class pay same % of their income for all taxes as upper class. not in absolute dollars, but same percentage of their income. if you want i’ll go find them.
You can not make that statement when 48% of all Americans do not pay any Federal income taxes. Common sense tells you that even if the top 1% have write offs of 10% then they pay 25% Federal income taxes and the bottom 48% pay 0%.
td
July 11th, 2011
12:15 pm
Go to this URL and see the actual numbers from the IRS since 1980. Then you can come back and debate me.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html#Data
big hat
July 11th, 2011
1:08 pm
Bush never used a teleprompter.
kc
July 11th, 2011
1:15 pm
using your report in 2008 top 1% pay 20% (after agi, which is better for high income folks)in federal income taxes, add that to my study which is accurate despite your objections, they then pay about 5.7% of their income for other state and local taxes, then add medicare and ss (capped) another 2.5% effectively for a total in georgia of 20+5.7+2.5=28-29%…..key concept is agi, which is likely to impact high income groups more favorably….so i wonder really what % of income the wealthy (loads of acctg advantanges) really pay.
by the way i am in the 28%marginal tax rate for fed so with all the other taxes i pay what top 1% pay…..and so do many middle americans…
thanks for making my point andd you are still wrong, our national revenues as % of gdp are at their lowest level i believe in 60 years…
kc
July 11th, 2011
1:16 pm
big hat i was being sarcastic….
kc
July 11th, 2011
2:33 pm
sorry the top 1% pay an effective 23% in 2008 in fed income taxes so add that to the state burden and fica it is about 30% or so
td
July 11th, 2011
2:36 pm
kc
July 11th, 2011
1:15 pm
I think you misread the numbers my friend. The 20% is saying the top 1% makes 20% of the AGI in all of America. They pay 38.02% of taxes. That in real numbers mean the top 1% AGI is $1.685 trillion and they pay $392 million in actual Federal taxes.
In contrast the bottom 50% make 12.75% AGI and pay 2.70% in taxes. In real numbers the bottom 50% AGI is $1.074 Trillion and they pay $27 million in actual Federal taxes.
If you want to look at the top 5% pays 58.72% of all taxes paid while they get 34.73% AGI
td
July 11th, 2011
2:39 pm
td
July 11th, 2011
2:36 pm
Please substitute Billion for Trillion and Million for Billion in the first 3 comparisons and the million is correct on the last number.
kc
July 11th, 2011
4:28 pm
td, you are lost cause, the report clearly states the top 1% effective federal tax rate is 23%…..you complain they take too much of their paycheck but you are wrong…yes they pay over 50% of the federal income taxes, but billionaire x pays and effective tax rate of 23%…….surely you are not that dense.
combine that with their effective tax rate in GA for state and local taxes of 5.7% and add fica you get 30%…..not 50%….you must be liberal arts major and took the easy math course.
oh, but you say it’s not fair for them to pay over 50% of the taxes (not to be confused with 50%tax rate)….well, that was sorta my point on them owning 43% of all usa financial wealth….doesn’t seem fair.
say there are only two taxpayers me and you. i make 4million, you 75K
my Effective tax rate is 25% so i pay 1 million. your tax rate is 17%, you pay 12750. i paid 98% of the taxes, you 2%……you think we need to tax me less and you more? you gotta be kidding….
now i see why repubs are so different, we are all wired differnt and my bias says something is wrong in your wiring.
big business, which has milked the american cow for their prosperity over the years, now want to protect their overlords and board members…..they are storing their nuts for the collapse they see as inevitable….maybe they are right….but i truly doubt a society can flourish were so many make so much and yes to your point many pay so little in taxes because not because everyone is not productive (american productivity up)
but they make so damn little in salary.
this i promise will be my last post on this issue.
kc
July 11th, 2011
4:49 pm
i lied….last phrase should read where so few make so much…..and remove the first because in the next line….chow
In search of Republicans who have John Boehner’s back – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | Texas Holdem Clinic
July 12th, 2011
4:22 am
[...] Post By Google News Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) Best Texas Holdem [...]
In search of Republicans who have John Boehner’s back – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | Learn Texas Holdem Today
July 12th, 2011
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Jezel
July 12th, 2011
8:11 pm
A couple of people have discussed term limits. We do not need term limits. Just never ever vote for an incumbent again.