Georgia voters narrowly approve outcome of the Civil War
State offices are closed today in observance of Confederate Memorial Day.
According to a three-state survey by Public Policy Polling, Georgia voters – by a slim margin – have come to approve of the way the Civil War turned out. North Carolinians are slightly less satisfied. But Mississippi – here we must invoke that famous Nina Simone tune.
The largest portion of Mississippi voters remain undecided when it comes to the outcome.
From PPP, an N.C. firm:
Except in Mississippi, most voters in these states are glad the Union won the “War Between the States” instead of the South. 53% say that in Georgia, 48% in North Carolina, and 34% in Mississippi. But still fewer in Mississippi (27%) would prefer that General Lee’s troops had prevailed; a 39% plurality are not sure. Similarly, only 21% in North Carolina and 23% in Georgia wish the South had won.
When hostilities broke out, Republicans were the party of Abraham Lincoln and unionism, and Democrats, by and large, were not. But things have changed, according to PPP:
In Georgia 47% of Republicans are content with the Union victory, while 31% wish the South had won. Democrats (58/17) and independents (54/19) are both strongly supportive of the North, making the overall numbers 53/23.
Educators interested in explaining one of the great flip-flops of American history can click here for more details.
- By Jim Galloway, Political Insider
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104 comments Add your comment
Really?
April 25th, 2011
2:48 pm
Wow. 31% of the Georgia GOP wishes the South had won the Civil War and as a result there would still be slaver. Wow. Just…wow.
Really?
April 25th, 2011
2:50 pm
*slavery
Ga Values
April 25th, 2011
2:55 pm
wish we had won the war.. but would not own a slave.
Re:Really
April 25th, 2011
2:55 pm
That is an incredibly ignorant statement. The United States is the only country in the world that had to eradicate slavery violently. Britain, France, Mexico, etc. didn’t seem to have problems with ending the institution. Slavery was no longer needed with industrialization. If the South held onto slavery for later than the 1870s, they would have been left in the dust.
Keith
April 25th, 2011
2:56 pm
Really, slavery was wrong and would have disappeared without the war within a few years. However the price we paid by having the War Of Yankee Aggression was the complete turning upside down of the constitutional framework of this nation and we all, north and south, are still suffering today because of that.
Epicuris
April 25th, 2011
3:06 pm
Anyone who believes that the Civil War was fought over slavery alone and that the Northern States never traded in slaves clearly doesn’t know a thing about their history. Why the Civil War was ever fought depends on who you ask and where there from. Shelby Foote would be embarrassed by the few comments here. Don’t witness with your mouth that which you clearly know little about.
atlpaddy
April 25th, 2011
3:08 pm
Those who wish the South had won are seditious anti-Americans. If they enjoy saluting the flag of a sworn enemy of the United States so much, why don’t they run they run the banners of Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Soviet Russia up the flagpole as well?
atlpaddy
April 25th, 2011
3:11 pm
Hey Re:Really, Keith, and Epicuris, what do Robert E. Lee, Ho Chi Minh, King George III, and Osama Bin Ladin have in common? They all willfully killed American soliders and citizens.
Epicuris
April 25th, 2011
3:13 pm
Hey atlpaddy, Have a clue the origins of Arlington National Cemetery? Hint, it has to do with Robert E. Lee and his Rose garden. What a simpleton…
SBtGoG
April 25th, 2011
3:16 pm
Really? Obviously you don’t know history very well. The Confederate states never re-instituted the slave trade and because the importing of slaves had stopped slavery would have ended by early 1900 at the absolute latest. Also the reason it was still so big in the United States and not in Britain and France etc was because we were still primarily an agricultural society and the farm equipment had not been industrialized like factory work had, so labor was needed.
Coastal Cavalier
April 25th, 2011
3:17 pm
Slaves were used in the south for agriculture production. But lets not forget that many of the people who imported the slaves were from these same European nations that abolished slavery. Much of it was also financed by northern bankers. So the small percentage of southern farmers who used slaves are not the only ones with blood on their hands.
Bobby
April 25th, 2011
3:19 pm
I’m a liberal Democrat but I wish the South had won the War Between the States. I think we would better off as an independent Nation. Then, UGA and Georgia Tech bands wouldn’t have banned the song “Dixie”.
Cut Em Loose
April 25th, 2011
3:19 pm
Well the Tea Partiers should be all for letting the parasitic southern states seceed again. Mississippi, Lousiana, Alabama, Kentucky, and Virginia all rank in the top 10 for federal spending vs. tax money paid in. Looks like we could easily deal with the federal deficit by cutting the southern leeches, and watch them flounder.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html
SBtGoG
April 25th, 2011
3:20 pm
atlpaddy The southern states did not aggressively attack the Union troops after the Union troops left the succeeded states. The only thing the Confederate troops did was defend the land for which they believed was theirs.
Bobby
April 25th, 2011
3:21 pm
@atlpaddy. No slaves ever came to the U.S. under the Confederate Flag. All of them came here under the U.S. flag.
Your words, not mine....
April 25th, 2011
3:31 pm
Not about slavery? This is from the Texas secession declaration:
‘We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.
Really
April 25th, 2011
3:36 pm
If y’all don’t think the Civil War as at its heart about slavery, you’re a pretty clear revisionist.
Confederate Vice President Alexander H. Stephens: Stephens said slavery was “the immediate cause of the late rupture and the present revolution.” Say it’s all about states rights if you want if it makes you able to look in the mirror, but that “right” the states were fighting for? Slavery. Get real folks. No wonder our state’s education system is at the bottom of national rankings.
Your words, not mine....
April 25th, 2011
3:36 pm
The opening lines of the Georgia seccession declaration:
“The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.”
It wasn’t about slavery??? Give me a break.
Hey Epicuris - read some history here
April 25th, 2011
3:37 pm
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp
From what was written by the South Carolinians back in december 1860 – the only example of states rights which were being trampled pertained to slavery.
So you can say that it’s about states rights. but the only states’ right that was mentioned in writing in the official secession documents were about slavery. Slavery is mentioned numerous times in the writings – not taxation, not voting, not congressional representation – but slavery.
the civil war was about economics and power. the south derived it’s agricultural industry from slave labor, plain and simple. when that was threatened, they declared war to protect this cheap labor source. thank god they (we) didn’t win!
John K
April 25th, 2011
3:37 pm
Don’t make Lee noble about Arlington. He did not give it up willfully.
Legend of Len Barker
April 25th, 2011
3:39 pm
Government in the south during the Civil War was beyond corrupt. Robert Toombs and other major political figures were more than willing to sell southern plebes up the river and have them killed in masses for a “cause” that affected few of them. Most southern folks were too po’ to own slaves, but yet a lot volunteered. Many, many, many, many more were conscripted. Like Vietnam, rich folks didn’t go.
In the post-war, the south tried to hang to slavery through any means possible, be it Jim Crow laws, the fun of oppressive sharecropping, Black Codes, lynching and/or other vigilante committees. Wasn’t until the 1920s that Hugh Dorsey even got embarrassed by it and sent a big ol’ list to the New York Times of how bad we were.
Hey SBtGoG
April 25th, 2011
3:40 pm
gettysburg is in PA
Ha Ha
April 25th, 2011
3:40 pm
The only way the Lee came to own Arlington was by marrying his cousin…..
Epicuris
April 25th, 2011
3:42 pm
Remember, I prefaced my first comments with, it depends on who you ask and where they’re from. So Your words, not mine….Texas was a slave State. What did you expect them to say during that time?
Marcus
April 25th, 2011
3:43 pm
@SBtGoG “the Union troops left the [SECEDED] states”??? If that makes any sense to you, I suggest going back to school.
S.C.’s secession address:
“Those [non-slaveholding] States have assumed the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of Slavery;”
GA’s:
“The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic….”
Mississippi’s:
“Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery – the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.”
I know that those passages are quite a bit to read, but I felt they were necessary to educate the delusional masses about what that war was REALLY about. Don’t kid yourself or make up any excuses; it was about slavery. I get disgusted with certain comments, being an educated African-American attending college in this city. Some of you may have a point, had the South won, slavery MAY have ended soon. Yes it was agriculturally driven, but no one can say for SURE. An extra twenty or thirty years of slavery means it would take that much longer for Blacks to get their civil rights, meaning I may not have this opportunity I have now. The North winning was the best. I’m done.
BPJ
April 25th, 2011
3:47 pm
Slavery was the primary cause of the Civil War. Of course the north had traded in slaves, and many Union supporters didn’t care about slavery, and many were racists. But none of that changes the fundamental issue. The great, “hot” political issue of the 1840s and 1850s was whether slavery would be extended into the new territories. Everyone understood that if the new states were “free” states, then at some point the U.S. Senate would have a working (filibuster-proof) majority of senators from free states. That would allow for the growing abolitionist movement to abolish slavery.
The abolitionist movement was the “political base” (to use today’s terminology) of the Republican party. That’s why the election of Lincoln prompted southern states to secede. Anyone doubting that slavery’s future was the big issue should read the speeches by southern senators at the time of secession; Alexander Stephens, the vice-president of the Confederacy, was quite explicit in saying that slavery was the rock upon which the Confederacy was built.
Whenever this topic comes up, we always hear the argument that the war was really about something else, such as tariffs. So I have to ask: what was the difference between the Whig Party and the Republican Party on tariffs? The answer: none. Yet this country had several Whig presidents (William Henry Harrison, Zachary Taylor) without prompting southern states to secede. The big difference between the Whig Party and the Republican Party which replaced it (in the northern states) was slavery; the Republican Party was firmly opposed to its extension, and Republican candidates advocated slavery’s eventual extinction.
Yes, there were other “sectional tensions”, but none which would lead to disunion. Yes, some unionists didn’t care about slavery, and some northerners were willing, in the postwar era, to allow black political rights to be trampled (as happened especially after the shameful 1876 election). But to deny that the antislavery movement was essential to Lincoln’s victory, or that southern states seceded because of Lincoln’s antislavery stance, or that the Civil War was primarily caused by disagreement over slavery’s role in America, is to be either ignorant, willfully ignorant, or dishonest.
Your words, not mine...
April 25th, 2011
3:47 pm
The opening lines of the Mississippi secession declaration:
“In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery– the greatest material interest of the world.”
Epicuris
April 25th, 2011
3:47 pm
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp makes a good point but a better read is Shelby Foote’s The Civil War: A Narrative. Remember, it all depends on who you ask and where they’re from.
Your words, not mine...
April 25th, 2011
3:48 pm
Epi – Don’t witness with your mouth that which you clearly know little about.
Red
April 25th, 2011
3:51 pm
Read all of the secession declarations. It seems the rich, slave owning politicians were all focused on protecting their 3/5 humans and seceded. But most of those who actually fought and died had no interest in slaves.
And give me a break about the slave traders being Northern bankers. Stop passing the buck. Slave traders never forced anyone to buy slaves. Plantation owners were greedy and stupidly invested everything in human beings. If the slave system was doomed to fail, then all of these slave owners doomed their own families to poverty when that day arrived. If they were smart they would have moved out of a slave economy early on.
Also note the Constitution of the CSA. They made sure that slavery was etched into the constitution far beyond a mention of a 3/5 person. Note that solidifying slavery was probably the greatest change to the CSA constitution. For slavery not being a part, it surely got a lot of mention in secession articles and a binding governmental document.
Epicuris
April 25th, 2011
3:54 pm
Interesting, how even after 150 years we still don’t all agree on exactly why the Civil War was ever fought. Still makes for interesting and spirited debate..
JF McNamara
April 25th, 2011
4:00 pm
Is there anything else that happened 150 years ago that I have to hear about every day? Let’s move on and stop giving this type of stuff a place in the media.
SBtGoG
April 25th, 2011
4:05 pm
@Hey SBtGoG Yes you got me, two major battles took place north of Virginia, and both were in the last few months of the war after more than three years of the south defending their home. So please give me a break, if someone attacked your home for over three years you would attack them. Also if the Southern Armies would have attacked immediately after the First Battle of Bull Run then they would have conquered D.C. What would Lincoln have done then. But like I said the south wanted to just have what was theirs not take what wasn’t theirs.
@Marcus Really your going to hound me about a typo. And yes Union troops were in the seceded states. Hence the first shots of the civil war being in SC at Fort Sumter. You go back to school.
Jack
April 25th, 2011
4:05 pm
I too do not feel that the United States would have been a great power if the Union had not prevailed. We are obviously better off as one nation. However, the reason so many Southerners feel so strongly about the South and its traditions comes not from the defeat of the Confederate army but from the oppression visited upon it by Reconstruction. Additionally those of us that recognize the wrongs of slavery feel that the total abolition of all that our ancestors fought for and held dear beyond the cause of slavery should not continue to be ground into the dirt. Furthermore it was not an honorable time for the Union army either. A pretty good case could be made under current standards (seeing as how we are applying today’s standards to everything else) for Sherman being charged as a war criminal for the actions of his troops in the treatment of the civilian population of Georgia. Just as it is easy for us today to view the wars overseas from afar it was the Northern population that largely viewed the reports at a distance and did not have to live with the burning, looting, and other things committed by the Union troops.
Freedom lover
April 25th, 2011
4:06 pm
Keith – Well said. Anyone who actually thinks that slavery would still exist is a complete idiot. Well, slavery does exist in the form of the income tax (an Abraham Lincoln creation that was ruled unconstitutional at the time), but that is a slightly different issue.
The union was too large to function at the time, merchantilism in the form of government favoring northern business interests was destroying the country at the time and things are even worse today. Had the confederacy been allowed to simply secceed from the north at the time, there might actually be something of a free nation or even multiple free nations on the american continent today. Instead we have a monster empire that seeks to rule the world while business interests run foreign policy to the detriment and bankruptcy of the people.
E equals MC Hammered
April 25th, 2011
4:08 pm
The Civil War was fought over the fact that the North couldn’t afford for the South to secede thus depriving it of low cost goods due to their favorable labor costs. It wasn’t because of their moral high horse.
Billy bob from Cobb
April 25th, 2011
4:10 pm
Wish we would have won. Now I am a tax slave so we can keep all those entitlements for the freed slaves descendants
Georgia voters narrowly approve outcome of the Civil War | Conservative GA
April 25th, 2011
4:14 pm
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wht
April 25th, 2011
4:25 pm
oh, dear jack, jacka**! war crimes, yeah, whatever…go to ANDERSONVILLE, then we can talk war crimes…everyone is guilty in war….don’t be an idiot.
Monroe Burbank
April 25th, 2011
4:26 pm
Well, folks from Mississippi and Georgia aren’t exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer, anyway. The fact that both MS and GA remain, year in and year out, near the bottom of the list among all states in the Best Educated Index speaks volumes about their proud ignorance.
Quite honestly, I wish Lincoln would have told the secessionist states – “Don’t let the door hit you on your way out.’
cind
April 25th, 2011
4:36 pm
omg, somebody better find a way to tie delta air lines into this story…and fast!! everytime there’s an ajc discussion, it has to come up!! delta started the war!! they did it!! guilty!! run them out…..here it comes
Double Whammy
April 25th, 2011
4:37 pm
It was bad enough to lose the War of Northern Aggression but the immigration of yankees to the Atlanta Metro area(and elsewhere in the South) is comparable to receiving the Double Whammy.
Think about it–in another 30 or so years, if not sooner, how many people in the South will say y”all, over yonder and other such Southern expressions. God forbid, we will be talking like yankees. The yankee is not our only foe. How ’bout political correctness. Dixie is a bad word. No more playing the song Dixie at college football games(except Ole Miss), no more UGA Dixie Redcoat band, no more Atlanta Journal “Covers Dixie like the Dew”, no more Dixie Living section in the Journal. I really don’t know who will kill the South first–the yankee or P.C. but believe me folks, our demise is coming.
Mike
April 25th, 2011
4:37 pm
If the South won the rest of the country would be fat and uneducated. Transplants are still trying to help you poor southerners out. Slowly but surely we are making the South healthier and smarter. Thank God the Confederates lost!
cs
April 25th, 2011
4:38 pm
i am surprised at the numbers considering the northern propaganda push as victors and the public indoctrination centers called public schools. clearly, even after 150 years or so, some still know and have been taught the REAL TRUTH!
the original and still the best John Galt
April 25th, 2011
4:39 pm
Nothing like mentioning the War to Prevent Southern Independence AKA Abraham Lincoln’s War for bringing out the ignorance.
Gary
April 25th, 2011
4:40 pm
@your words,not mind, altpaddy, and Really…..Slavery was legal under the United States Constitution until Dec 1865. I, like the vast majority, abhor slavery today. Unlike you three, I have donated money to free slaves in our time. People that complain so bitterly about slavery in the 1800’s do almost nothing for those held in slavery today….I hear the word hypocrite wafting on the breeze.
If freeing the slaves was the complete reason of the war, then the southern states could have agreed to ratify the Originial 13th Amendment (the Corwin Amendment) that was supported by US Pres. Lincoln to permentally secure slavery in the states that it existed forever. Indeed, the lower south left due to the belief that the Lincoln Administration would interfer with their personal property (read slaves) yet Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee, and North Carolina left when US Pres. Lincoln unconstitutionally called for 75,000 troops to put down the ‘rebellion’. Even US Supreme Court Chief Justice Tanney was placed under house arrest by Lincoln becaused he dared to state that Lincoln actions were unconstitutional.
The three of you are judging 19th century culture with 21st century morals. This is historically and intellectually dishonest but I guess emotions rule your days.
General Robert E. Lee was an outstanding man and gentleman. If you wish not to honor Gen. Lee, that is your right, but for you to claim what you claim is absurd. You claim he purposely killed Americans, but I can lay claim to the same by US Pres. Lincoln, General Grant, Sherman, Sheridan, etc. for they killed American, too. Yep, that is right, southerners are Americans too, you bigotted people.
4 Jacks
April 25th, 2011
4:44 pm
Do not beleive in slavery and my great grandfather that fought with Philips Legion from west Georgia never owned a slave, however, slavery was a core reason for the War between the States. Also, state rights was a main consideration of this war. Being a born and bred southerner with family that fought for the confederacy it is hard to say I am happy the north won, but in actuality getting rid of slavery was the best and right thing to do. My problem is the federal government was put in place in order to call all the states to war if we were ever threatened or invaded by another country. Look at the effing mess our central government is now in, and tell me that states could not better run their states as opposed to having the federal government run everything. Also, why should I have to sacrifice my complete heritage, because it might offend a black person that in this day and time has as much opportunity to succeed in life as I do? My gosh folks we have a black president, why should I feel guilty any more? Of course this president is doing absolutely nothing to turn the economy around and to lead this country through some tough times. However, he does give pretty speaches and it seems the American public is to stupid to figure it out, as it wasn’t just the black vote that put him in office. So yes, I am sorry the south lost the war, and not over slavery, but I have more faith in the leaders of this state to better take care of me and my family than any central or federal government.
cs
April 25th, 2011
4:49 pm
if the war was over slavery, then all the southern states had to do was jump back into the union in 1861 and pass the Corwin Amendment with northern state and abe lincoln support which would have guaranteed slavery existance.
also, the emancipation proclamation freed not the first slave. slaves in the north held regions remained slaves and declared slaves in regions they didnt control as free. that’s as stupid as would be obama saying 15 year olds can vote in cuba but not in america. i say its so.
Double Whammy
April 25th, 2011
4:55 pm
Mike, are you trying to tell me there are no fat and uneducated people in the North? We don”t need you or any other yankee to help us poor southerners out. You sir, are a typical arrogant yankee and you didn’t move here to help anyone except yourself i.e. to live in a better climate.
concerned
April 25th, 2011
4:59 pm
It’s a shame so many of you making comments are so ignorant of the war between the states and the history surrounding it. You should study the history before making your ill-informed comments.
robert B. hunter
April 25th, 2011
5:01 pm
Gov. Joe E Brown of Georgia before the State Legislature stated.
” We must defend slavery, without slavery we will have to pay poor white men more money”. Wake up you poor white people, that’s the reason the South was pro-slavery and today is anti-union.
Bob
robert B. hunter
April 25th, 2011
5:01 pm
Gov. Joe E Brown of Georgia before the State Legislature stated.
” We must defend slavery, without slavery we will have to pay poor white men more money”. Wake up you poor white people, that’s the reason the South was pro-slavery and today is anti-union.
Bob
Michael
April 25th, 2011
5:02 pm
I’m happy the Federation defeated the Romulans for the most part. Any other irrelevant queries?
gtfanfrom1951
April 25th, 2011
5:04 pm
It’s still dividing us today but what about the 13,000 black confederates who fought for the C.S.A. or 120,000 in the army. I wish the South would have because we would of had it made! Right Hank!!! One more thing U.S. Grant was a slave owner until the end of the war and Robert E. Lee freed his before the war.
Revisionist?
April 25th, 2011
5:04 pm
“My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it.” – Abraham Lincoln. The war was about how the country would be run. Slavery is a good way to make the ends justify the means.
Jay
April 25th, 2011
5:11 pm
I wish the South had been allowed to peacefully secede. Go to any other part of the country and you will hear people ridicule and demean the South. So I would love to know what people in other states think about the issue. Do they think the Southern states should have been allowed to secede. After all many of these people seem incredibly embarassed by the fact that their country consists of the Southern states.
Yes, slavery was an important reason as to why the South seceded. However, Lincoln was most concerned about preserving the Union. He even said if he could keep the Union intact without freeing the slaves he would do so. Most Northerners did not like blacks. Many were not in favor of slavery, but that didn’t mean they wanted free blacks living amongst them. Prior to the War Between The States, even Lincoln thought it was a good idea for blacks to be sent back to Africa.
The South fought a defensive war under President Davis and General Lee. Had Davis acquiesced to General Jackson and his insistence that the South crush the North when it had the chance, the South would have won the war. Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation did not free any slaves in the South. The idea that Lincoln and the North fought the War Between The States to free slaves is post-modern revisionism, just as the idea that slavery was not an important reason as to why the South seceded. However, the winners (in this case the North) re-wrote history to make it seem that wise and benevolent Lincoln bravely waged war, and in the process killed over 600,000 men, to end slavery.
Doug
April 25th, 2011
5:11 pm
@ Epicuris – It is odd that you would insist on a stance of 50/50. Everything that is will be seen differently by different people. That doesn’t mean that some people aren’t correct while others are in error. If every Confederate state listed slavery near the opening of their declarations then why would you accept a different explanation for causality?
As for arguments that Slavery would have died out – that is at best unfounded and in practice unlikely. The slave trade continued even after it was outlawed. The southern states maintained the right to enslave any negroes born to slave parents and enacted a rigorous program to breed more slaves since fewer could be smuggled in. Futhermore the crux of the point and the concern is that the south maintains such an air of affinity repeatedly asking the victims of their crimes to look past this “one teensy weensy issue”. There is a reason we don’t applaud Hitler’s arts initiatives, or his youth development programs. The taint and scar of slavery – much like the holocaust – is far to overwhelming for there to be any redeeming quality in all those that, supported, tolerated, and still forgive it.
gtfanfrom1951
April 25th, 2011
5:12 pm
Atlpaddy
Abe Lincoln (that Yankee President) made the Northern Armies come to Southern soil to fight and die. But they all Americans! I am pround of My family who fought and died defending their homes.
Junior Samples
April 25th, 2011
5:14 pm
Don’t get upset over the whole “states rights” argument, that’s what some of us were taught in grade school.
Some of us made it further…
Wakeup
April 25th, 2011
5:24 pm
According to federal census reports, on June 1, 1860 there were nearly 4.5 million Blacks in the United States, with fewer than four million of them living in the southern slaveholding states. Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves. Of this number, 10,689 lived in New Orleans. The country’s leading African American historian, Duke University professor John Hope Franklin, records that in New Orleans over 3,000 free blacks owned slaves, or 28 percent of the free blacks in that city.
Ga Values
April 25th, 2011
5:26 pm
If you’ll hate the South so much why don’t you go back up NORTH.
Wakeup
April 25th, 2011
5:28 pm
Abraham Lincoln Quotes:
“Negro equality? Fudge!” — Abraham Lincoln, Fragments: Notes for Speeches, Sept. 1859 (Vol. III)
“If I could save The Union without freeing any slaves, I would do it” — Abraham Lincoln, in a letter to Horace Greeley
“I am a little uneasy about the abolishment of slavery in this District [of Columbia].” — Abraham Lincoln, 1862
“The whole nation is interested that the best use shall be made of these [new] territories. We want them for the homes of free white people.” — Abraham Lincoln, October 16, 1854
“Free them, and make them politically and socially our equals? My own feelings will not admit of this…. We cannot, then, make them equals.” — Abraham Lincoln, “Lincoln’s Reply to Douglas,” p. 444
“What I would most desire would be the separation of the white and black races.” — Abraham Lincoln, Spoken at Springfield, Illinois on July 17th, 1858; from Abraham Lincoln: Complete Works, 1894, Volume 1, page 273
yuzeyurbrane
April 25th, 2011
5:33 pm
The sad thing is that this is progress.
Ga Values
April 25th, 2011
5:34 pm
4 Jacks
April 25th, 2011
4:44 pm
The Georgia part of my family were also in Phillips Legion also, the most Alabama part were in the 4th & 14th, Alabama. Only the Pelham branch of the family owned slaves and all their men were dead by the early 1863.
Another point of view
April 25th, 2011
5:35 pm
July 1, 1854
“You say A. is white, and B. is black. It is color, then; the lighter, having the right to enslave the darker? Take care. By this rule, you are to be slave to the first man you meet, with a fairer skin than your own. You do not mean color exactly?–You mean the whites are intellectually the superiors of the blacks, and, therefore have the right to enslave them? Take care again. By this rule, you are to be slave to the first man you meet, with an intellect superior to your own. But, say you, it is a question of interest; and, if you can make it your interest, you have the right to enslave another. Very well. And if he can make it his interest, he has the right to enslave you.”
-Abraham Lincoln
My opinion is that whites and blacks (in the South) were bonded together by slavery. Think about this type of bonding experience: How did the white woman feel knowing that her husband was sneaking out the back door to rape one of my ancestors. As a rejected woman she was sick with anger and rightfully so. In addition, this white woman may have had to witness her husband’s children (by the raped slave) grow up on the plantation. Sickening! Therefore, she would take out her anger on the slave, who of course, had no choice in the matter. Slavery was bad and I am glad it’s over for ALL of us!
Now, whether or not, Lincoln actually went to war over slavery is inconsequential. Slavery is over so MOVE ON!
roughrider
April 25th, 2011
5:37 pm
LOL. I didn’t know it was over.
jp
April 25th, 2011
5:43 pm
hey people! the war IS over and yes, blacks need to move on! stop dwelling on the past! yes, slavery = bad, war = bad, andersonville=bad, sherman burning = bad…etc…on and on….it’s done. btw, a friend of mine lived in chicago for 3 years, nyc for 2 and he came home saying how nice they are up there AND how polite they are when they drive!!!!! wtf!!!!
Contractor
April 25th, 2011
5:43 pm
atlpaddy,
How about you read a book about Robert E. Lee. If you even did the tiniest bit of research you would realize he was against slavery, but would not fight against his family and state brothers. It’s idiots like you that falsify the facts and give people and events bad names. You would also learn that Union Generals had more respect for Lee than some of their own, and how great of a leader he actually was. You’re a disgrace to America by your lack of knowledge about the United States’ past.
dou
April 25th, 2011
5:47 pm
aaaa, not all slave owners “raped” the slaves… and the “white women” weren’t running around being nasty to their slaves….that’s like saying all blacks commit crimes….you see?????
In summation....
April 25th, 2011
5:48 pm
The South seceeded because of slavery.
The North went to war to preserve the union of this great American country.
Can we move on?
Dilbert
April 25th, 2011
5:51 pm
Hey Contractor, note the 3:40pm HISTORICALLY ACCURATE post by Ha Ha.
Mr. History
April 25th, 2011
6:01 pm
Actually, you are both wrong Dilbert and HaHa. Robert Lee never owned Arlington House. By marrying his cousin, he only got to live in the house, and he never owned it.
YankeeCarpetBaggers
April 25th, 2011
6:18 pm
Enter your comments here
Contractor
April 25th, 2011
6:21 pm
Dilbert,
You sound about as cool as your name, which is one I wouldn’t admit to. Please show me some evidence she was his cousin. Instead of a post by someone with as little intelligence as yourself.
Ga Values
April 25th, 2011
6:26 pm
Contractor
April 25th, 2011
6:21 pm
If you can trust the Federal Government, this is from the “Arlington National Cemetary” web site.
George Washington Parke Custis and his wife, Mary Lee Fitzhugh (whom he had married in 1804), lived in Arlington House for the rest of their lives and were buried together on the property after their deaths in 1857 and 1853, respectively. They are buried in their original graves in Section 13, at map grid N-30. On June 30, 1831, Custis’ only child, Mary Anna Randolph Custis, married her childhood friend and distant cousin, Robert E. Lee. Lee was the son of former three-term Virginia Governor Henry (”Light Horse Harry”) Lee and was himself a graduate of West Point.
Between 1841 and 1857, Lee was away from Arlington House for several extended periods. In 1846 he served in the Mexican war under Gen. Winfield Scott, and in 1852 he was appointed superintendent of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, his alma mater. After his father-in-law died in 1857, Lee returned to Arlington to join his family and to serve as executor of the estate.
Under the terms of her father’s will, Mary Anna Custis Lee was given the right to inhabit and control the house for the rest of her life. Custis’ will also stipulated that upon Mary Anna’s death, full title would pass to her eldest son, George Washington Custis Lee. Contrary to popular belief, Robert E. Lee never owned the Arlington estate. Lee did serve as custodian of the property, which had fallen into disrepair by the time he returned to execute his father-in-law’s will. By 1859, Lee had returned the property and its holdings to profitability and good order.
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/historical_information/arlington_house.html
Contractor
April 25th, 2011
6:38 pm
I stand corrected, and can admit that in this case. How “distant” of cousins though? I have stopped counting after third because I can’t follow the tree that far, so eventually we are all related down the line.
Another point of view
April 25th, 2011
6:50 pm
@ duo the point was that it was a nasty deal no matter if you were white or black. I never made a blanket statement that all white men raped their slaves BUT it was common and it was sickening. Hence, we were all enslaved. Interesting that how you took offense to that suggestion though.
Jeff
April 25th, 2011
6:52 pm
The worst part of the whole business is all the poor white people from the south who got HOODWINKED into fighting and dying for the rich white big-daddy plantation owners who didn’t respect them then and wouldn’t now either.
Read the slave narratives by the WPA from the 1930’s, you can read first hand accounts of what it was really like. And it wasnt pretty.
Had the south won , fat chance, the north would like the USA of today and the south would be like a poor backward third world country such as Haiti with the working poor supporting an ultra small rich minority.
Lee was a coward and traitor to MY COUNTRY and by some accounts a bad leader as well. He was gracious in defeat at least, a lesson sadly forgotten by the ignorant southerners spewing revisionist history in the years following the end of the civil war.
Only 34 percent of Mississippians glad Union prevailed | ATLmalcontent
April 25th, 2011
6:53 pm
[...] Except in Mississippi, most voters in these states are glad the Union won the “War Between the States” instead of the South. 53% say that in Georgia, 48% in North Carolina, and 34% in Mississippi. But still fewer in Mississippi (27%) would prefer that General Lee’s troops had prevailed; a 39% plurality are not sure. Similarly, only 21% in North Carolina and 23% in Georgia wish the South had won. [...]
YankeeCarpetbagging101
April 25th, 2011
6:53 pm
Slavery was wrong!No two ways about it BUT that said,the North was hypocritical in their fighting to abolish slavery so as to camoflauge the real reason for the war on the south!That was that the South would not take “orders” from the government as to how to run their STATES! Does this sound familiar? We have just about come full circle again. Once the North had won the war and the slaves were “FREED” did conditions become better for the black man in this country? Carpetbaggers stole & pillaged legally and did more harm as it was done all in the name of emancipation! Yes, free to work and earn a living but @ slave wages>Where do you think the term came from? Not all Southerners owned slaves.Many Southerners KNEW SLAVERY WAS WRONG! Even those who owned them were at least not hypocritical in their purpose for owning them or treatment of their slaves. Even during the war, BLACKS were “allowed” to fight for the North(under close scrutiny & objections by many)BUT in segregated units. Even the pay was less than that of the white soldier. SO, give me a break with how the NORTH was the BLACK MAN’S saviour or knight in shining armour coming to save them from the cotton fields only to put them in factories making just enough to stay behind! It’s akin to the kid that beats up the playground Bully and you want to think you are better off until your realize he is the new bully!
Last Man Standing
April 25th, 2011
6:56 pm
Ignorance abounds here with regard to the causes of the War of Northern Aggression. I guess that is to be expected for anyone who hasn’t done extensive study of the subkect.
Last Man Standing
April 25th, 2011
7:00 pm
Jeff:
“Had the south won , fat chance,”
If the south was attempting to add land, they very well could have, and should have taken D.C. It was within their grasp. The South was fighting a defensive war, merely wanting the north to leave them alone.
Just how long do you think the war would have lasted if the South had elected to take D.C.?
Red
April 25th, 2011
7:02 pm
It’s about as bad as glorifying Thomas Jefferson…the man who had relations with a piece of “property”. He wouldn’t deem his slave anything more than 3/5 of a human being and considered a slave property. I always thought that sort of intercourse was considered illegal.
Last Man Standing
April 25th, 2011
7:02 pm
In summation….:
You are SO wrong that it would take more time to educate you than it would be worth . . .
Alabama Communist
April 25th, 2011
7:29 pm
In Georgia 47% of Republicans are content with the Union victory* Jim
In another Poll by the North Carolina firm, they asked the same voters were they happy with the total fight card of the USA. Beating the German twice, downing the Japs once, losing a tight fight in Nam and fighting to a draw in Korea, and going to the Super bowl of Wars, the cold war and winning by default when the other side promoter couldn’t sell enough of tickets to the final match.
4 Jacks
April 25th, 2011
7:30 pm
Thanks Ga Values. I have just researched some of this about my great grandfather, and actually found where he is buried. I did that for my father before he died in January. This subject is something that northeners will never understand as their families were not subject to the brutaility of reconstuction that our families suffered through. My great grandmother lived to be 103, she died in 1961 in Tallapoosa, Ga. She told us stories when she was a little girl about yankees coming to their farm and pillaging it, taking every chicken (8) their only cow, and the vegetables they had. They basically took everything they had and left them nothing to eat. She hated yankees and although I do not hate any one person, I am tired of all these damn yankees down here telling us what we should think and what we should do. I am all fo suceding from the union and this mess of a federal government that we are now dealing with. Stupid yankees are to arrogant to realize that we as a country or nation might have been better off today if the south had won, although slavery would had to have been abolished. Thanks again Ga. Values.
Wendy Breeze
April 25th, 2011
7:32 pm
The War of Northern Aggression……
Hollis
April 25th, 2011
7:47 pm
Lincoln would have been a “BIRTHER”
Ga Values
April 25th, 2011
7:55 pm
4 Jacks
April 25th, 2011
7:30 pm
I would give anything if I had got Grandmother to write down the family stories that she told me.
Both my Grandmothers taught me to hate Yankees. I wish all the complainers would just move back up to haven in the north but I guess we got the worse of the Yankees down here and the good Yankees don’t want them back..
Most of my Georgia family are buried at the family church in Marietta. Than Alabama families are buried at various family cemeteries, Several of my cousins did the Ted Turner’s recreation of Picket’s Charge, they cried all the way.
Lt Dan
April 25th, 2011
8:07 pm
What’s there to approve or disapprove? We learned…as we did during World War II…that a Country’s industrial base is the cornerstone of sustained civilization…add to that a unified constituency with direction and purpose. Now, fast-forward to the first 10 years of the 21st Century…we can’t build “nuthin” of lasting value, we can’t agree on “nuthin”, we can’t “edicate” kids to function as free-standing entities without a ton of electronics in support…but hey! We’re fast approaching 3rd world status in terms of abject poverty, unwanted pregos, and National health standards mirroring those of a country with a fraction of a fraction of the current GNP. Any questions?
Easy now
April 25th, 2011
8:24 pm
Careful with the stereotypes of Southerners. There are many places outside the states of the Confederacy where hatred and racism is far more prevalent. I spent cinsiderable time in Boston and was astonished at the racism and anti semitism I encountered in private among the “enlightened” of the Northeast.
Lt Dan
April 25th, 2011
8:39 pm
Easy, I can only quote my bud, Private Gump: “Stupid is as stupid does”. Some of the most “enlightened” people on the face of this blue bb in space are entirely devoid of anything resembling humanity. They will go home to their lovely wives, their 2.6 kids, sing their lil’ ole hearts out in church, and go through life fooling (almost) everyone…even themselves. Like a swarm of gnats, they’ll always be there.
Coneal
April 25th, 2011
8:55 pm
Slavery??? That show’s what allot of you actually know about the civil war. everyone thinks that the war was fought totally over slavery. That couldn’t be farther from the truth. Actually it was fought because the south got tired of the north pressing things on them they did not like. And they decided to take a stand. For instance, see what the north (Washington) is pushing on everyone now? And pretty much everyone is getting sick of it. It would not surprise me if another sort of civil war didn’t happen, if things don’t change.
Jeff
April 25th, 2011
9:36 pm
The war was fought because rich planters and their buddies in the senate tricked enough southern poor people into declaring war. Oldest story in the world.
After the dust settled (by force) the rich folks did it again by blaming black people and ‘yankees’ for all of the atrocity and refusing to take responsibility for trying to destroy the greatest nation on earth.
“What if” Lee had occupied Washinton? Why would the north have just left it at that? Wouldn’t have made a difference, just prolonged the conflict.
The problem is that being proud of having southern heritage is somehow intertwined with hating black people, hating Yankees and still getting really pissed off over the civil war. Why do southerners hate black people?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Remember folks it is United we Stand and divided we just get taken advantage of by politicians and corporations.
Gary
April 25th, 2011
10:30 pm
I don’t think they hate blacks. I do believe that many people in the South do distrust the federal government. This was true before the war and continues today. It has not been helped by the things that are going on today in Washington. The policies of the Democratic party run counter to this distrust of strong federal authority. We know who won the war. We know that we are all Americans. We probably by any objective measure show our love of America more openly than any region. That being said there is always an underlying distrust of centralized government. The problem with Northerners here in the South has always been one more of joking about them than actual hate of them. Northerners need to relax and quit trying to solve this riddle of the South. We don’t understand it ourselves sometimes. It is Just in our DNA.
UGA75
April 26th, 2011
2:40 am
Slavery was a contributing factor to the Secession of the Southern States. The reason every Southern State mentioned it in their ordinance of Secession is because of 3 simple facts. First, the John Brown raid, while John Brown was captured, tried, convicted and hanged, he was lauded as a hero and a martyr, He wanted to arm Slaves and kill all the Slave owners and their neighbors who didn’t own slaves as well. The fact that so many citizens of the North praised this man and his activity didn’t make Southerners feel they could trust those Northern folks all that much. Second, Slave and Free States were a way to keep score in the Senate where the laws were passed. Once the decision was reached to make all new states “Free States” that meant that the votes were present to abolish Slavery (which wasn’t done) or pass exorbitant Tariffs which is what President Lincoln’s platform was all about. The tariff rate was doubled in the first Congress after President Lincoln was sworn in. Third, The Southern people felt they were in the same position as the Colonist when they seceded from England. They were going to be taxed (tariffs) into poverty, the institution of Slavery could be eliminated at any time, and the two sections of the Country did not trust or like each other. These are some of the contributing factors to the States Seceding. The acts of secession didn’t start or make a war inevitable. The War started when President Lincoln attempted to re-provision Ft. Sumter after he promised not to do so.
My personal opinion is that Slavery ended in most of the world without bloodshed and would likely have ended in the Confederacy before 1880 as it did in most other countries. Had the Confederacy survived, I do not see how it could be worse than our current government. We have two parties neither of which listens to or cares about the people they are supposed to represent. Maybe Southern Politicians wouldn’t have sold all our jobs to other countries. One can only wonder what if…………
J. Davis
April 26th, 2011
7:17 am
The outcome of the WBTS put the South into the hands of freedom hating socialists, and we’re in trouble today because of it. dishonest Abe is the most overrated President in the history of the universe.
Quiet neighbor
April 26th, 2011
7:41 am
Great Grandfather was a confederate soldier and, after the war he left his family to move west with another woman. As a southerner of 390 years heritage, I can safely say that I love the South – that I am of the southern family. But like any family, there are relatives and chapters of the family history that are better acknowledged for what they are. Slavery is, was an abomination. That we are in the 21st century, near 150 years removed from that sad chapter and we are still “honoring” a bad decision is unfortunate at best and pathetic at worst.
In the 1970s, I had a grand optimism that Georgia and the South was moving toward enlightenment. Given the tenor of this blog and the recent posts about immigration, I am no longer optimistic I will live to see the “new south.”
Jackets21
April 26th, 2011
2:24 pm
You are very ignorant if you believe the Civil War was about slavery. It was only the issue at debate about which the underlying philosophy was being debated – states versus federal rights. The founders of this nation came here to get away from an oppressive, dominating government in England. The South was trying to prevent this country from simply evolving back into that which the founders were trying to avoid. In our political system, government is created to serve its population. State rights better represent local views the same as city, county, to even home owners associations are more representative of its member. People in Utah or California do not know the needs of people in Tennessee and should not have input on how it is governed. Since the CSA failed, or more precisely, the French and British were too slow to support the CSA, which they now assuredly regret, we now have a dominate, big brother Federal government that has ruined this country dictating unwanted policies and laws to causing death citizens by getting involved in every other country in the world’s problems. That’s another story obviously but the failure of the CSA to stop Federal oppression will be remembered years from now as the deciding event that led us to a New World Order very much resembling Nazi Germany. Read a newspaper people, see it in every day changes going on in our country. Read a book, like 1984 or Brave New World. Better yet, think for yourself instead of listening to what government propaganda tells you and being a sheep led to slaughter. Enjoy your idiot boxes, sports, and “american” idol while our Federal government destroys this country and the world.
ladyliberty
April 26th, 2011
9:33 pm
proof that Mississippi has not been corporatized and yankeefied and another reason we wish to leave GA and move to MS
Brendastevens
April 27th, 2011
4:27 am
What has been described as the turning point for the Civil War is the Battle of Gettysburg http://bit.ly/dNE4wR
double
April 27th, 2011
10:42 am
Not slavery.Industrial and the South paid dearly for many years after the war end.At time George Wallace ran independent president the South was paying more to ship freight North.
leftyliberaL
April 28th, 2011
9:15 am
robert e lee was a 2 bit racist rapist treasonous slaveholder
Eric
May 2nd, 2011
10:20 am
Like Jack and others, I’m glad slavery ended, but it was the aftermath of Reconstruction, urbanization, technology, and a centralized federal government that continues to disturb and frighten many people today.