Shepherd Center becomes site for first human trial of embryonic stem cell treatment in U.S.
Atlanta has just become the point where embryonic stem cell research meets a human being in the United States. From the Washington Post:
The first patient has been treated with human embryonic stem cells in the first study authorized by the Food and Drug Administration to test the controversial therapy.
A patient who was partially paralyzed by a spinal cord injury had millions of embryonic stem cells injected into the site of the damage, according to an announcement early Monday by the Geron Corp. of Menlo Park, Calif., which is sponsoring the groundbreaking study.
The patient was treated at the Shepherd Center, a 132-bed hospital in Atlanta that specializes in spinal cord and brain injuries, Geron said. The hospital is one of seven sites participating in the study, which is primarily aimed at testing whether the therapy is safe.
Doctors will, however, also conduct a series of specially designed tests to see whether the treatment helps the patients. No additional information about the first patient was released.
So why is this on a political blog? Because several attempts to bar embryonic stem cell research in Georgia have arisen from the state Capitol in recent years. Many, though not all, conservative Christians oppose it.
In the governor’s race, the topic is one of the issues that differentiate Democrat Roy Barnes, who supports ESC research, from Republican Nathan Deal, who does not.
An important point from Reuters:
Geron is not subject to limitations on federal funding for human embryonic stem cell research, as it has done all its work with its own funding.
The government is embroiled in a legal battle over the cells. Just weeks after he took office in 2009, President Barack Obama issued an executive order that eased limitations on federal funding of human embryonic stem cell research.
Geron, a biotech company based in “silicon valley” south of San Francisco, has spent $170m on developing a stem cell treatment for spinal cord injury.
The research will use cells coaxed to become nerve cells which are injected into the spinal cord.
In animal trials of the treatment, paralysed rats regained some movement.
But it is not yet known if it will offer any benefit to people with spinal cord injuries.
Every year around 12,000 people in the US sustain spinal cord injuries. The most common causes are automobile accidents, falls, gunshot wounds and sports injuries.
In the trial, patients who have sustained such an injury within the last 14 days will be given the experimental stem cell treatment.
Geron president Dr Thomas Okarma said: “When we started working with human embryonic stem cells in 1999, many predicted that it would be a number of decades before a cell therapy would be approved for human clinical trials.
“This accomplishment results from extensive research and development and a succession of inventive steps.”
But it will take some time to get the results.
And there are many years of rigorous testing ahead before it can be known if the therapy is safe and effective.
Professor Sir Ian Wilmut, director of the Medical Research Council Centre for Regenerative Medicine at the University of Edinburgh, said: “This is very exciting news, however, it is very important to appreciate that the objective of trials at this stage is to confirm first of all that no harm is done to patients, rather than to look for benefits.
“Once that has been confirmed then the focus moves on to development and assessment of the new treatment.”
Ben Sykes, executive director of the UK National Stem Cell Network, said: “This is indeed a significant milestone in our journey towards the promise of stem cell-based medicines.
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187 comments Add your comment
about time
October 11th, 2010
10:52 am
great news for the shepherd spinal center. Wish them much success.
CFK
October 11th, 2010
12:06 pm
Why is this not front page news. This is revolutionary. First time embryonic stem cells have been used to treat humans. This is groundbreaking. According to Reuters News, this is a landmark trial. Medicine will never be the same again. Embrynoic stem cells will be used in many, many other treatments. This is the begining of a new age in medicine.
Atlanta news | Minute by minute (Oct. 11) | Atlanta News | Minute by minute
October 11th, 2010
12:44 pm
[...] p.m. Atlanta’s Shepherd Center has begun the nation’s first FDA-approved testing of human embryonic stem cells on a human patient. The patient, partially paralyzed by a spinal cord [...]
MR164164
October 11th, 2010
12:53 pm
This is great news for my mother. She has MS and we have been waiting for this to come through!
johnatl
October 11th, 2010
12:54 pm
I think I just heard some Christian Coalition heads explode………
David Staples
October 11th, 2010
1:02 pm
Wow, no outcry from the Christian right yet? Now that is surprising…
Aquagirl
October 11th, 2010
1:05 pm
I hope this patient regains function in his/her legs. Then they can kick a wingnut Republican square in the @$$.
Stefan
October 11th, 2010
1:06 pm
@johnatl. Ha, ha..I hearad the same thing!!
N Ga Thinker
October 11th, 2010
1:08 pm
Like many, I anxiously await the eventual positive impact important studies like this will bring to my friends diagnosed with chronic, long term, quality of life diseases like MS.
bart
October 11th, 2010
1:20 pm
This is groundbraking news. Kudos to the Shepherd Center for being chosen for this landmark study. I’m surprised Sadie Fields and the so-called “Christian” Coalition have not been screaming about this. Maybe they realize that this is a landmark study and has the potential to help millions of people suffering from Parkinsons, diabetes, paralysis, MS, and other chronic conditions. Let’s hope for once they will put the well being of the living ahead of their narrow minded political agenda.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
1:33 pm
Why is this a political issue? Because the left needs it to continue demonizing the right:
Japanese stem cell pioneer among possible candidates for Monday’s Nobel Prize in medicine
By MALIN RISING , Associated Press
Last update: October 3, 2010 – 10:23 AM
STOCKHOLM – A Japanese researcher who discovered how to make stem cells from ordinary skin cells and avoid the ethical quandaries of making them from human eggs could be a candidate for the medicine award when the 2010 Nobel Prize announcements kick off Monday, experts said.
DJ Sniper
October 11th, 2010
1:37 pm
Can somebody tell my exactly why the Christian conservative groups are so opposed to stem cell research? What exactly is the reason?
WAW
October 11th, 2010
1:39 pm
So it Roy is not elected will the Shepherd Center be allowed to continue their work. The Republicans have already tried to replace ESC with blood letting and will be after ending this abomination. This is worse than implanting microchips in our children.
OTW
October 11th, 2010
1:43 pm
“. . . that the objective of trials at this stage is to confirm first of all that no harm is done to patients, rather than to look for benefits.”
Runaway Cancer cells, with its attendant explosion of cancerous tumors, has historically been the legacy of this treatment in China, Vietnam, North Korea and other UN-regulated nations that have employed this treatment over the last decade. It is certainly right that Geron Corp. protect themselves from the beginning by managing expectations. The likeliest outcome under the current level of medical knowledge is that this poor unfortunate patient will succumb to cancer and die . . . well before their normal life expectancy.
It is a shame the way the big BioTech conglomerates manipulate the suffering of people in order for them to make a profit. It is a larger evil that in destructive embryonic stem cell therapy a small human life is killed in order to make the serum that is injected. One person dies for a fact and another’s life is shortened as a human guinea pig for big Biotech.
Adult stem cells do not take a human life and have produce 72 near cures to embryonic stem cell therapy’s 0 over the last decade.
Mrs. PACman
October 11th, 2010
1:50 pm
It isn’t just Christian groups that are opposed to the use of human embryos for research. It is people who see life as beginning at fertilization and destroying these tiny humans is completely against our belief that all life is sacred – regardless of its size, stage of development, manner of creation, etc. We aren’t opposed to cures for diseases that many of you have mentioned. Many of us who oppose embryonic stem cell destruction have MS, cancer, Parkinson’s, are paralyzed, etc. However, we see that cures can take place using adult stem cells. Research done using adult stem cells have been MORE effective in producing cures and do not have ANY ethical implications whatsoever. I simply don’t understand why we need to destroy human life when there are other ways to come to the same results that don’t destroy life. That is the reason some groups are opposed to this research. This has affected me personally. I have a family member that was treated with adult stem cells and is now in remission because of that technology. There have been NO such positive results with embryonic stem cells. Shouldn’t we put the research money into technology that has been tried and proven to be successful? Especially when it doesn’t require the destruction of human life!
OTW
October 11th, 2010
1:50 pm
Do a quick google search on “pluripotentency of embryonic stem cells and cancer”
“There is a body of research clearly demonstrates that foetal stem cells are very unstable and can lead to undifferentiated cell growth and cancer” Feb 2009
http://www.pharmastrategyblog.com/2009/02/do-embryonic-stem-cells-cause-cancer.html
lucy
October 11th, 2010
1:52 pm
Here we go with the exaggerations, innuendos, and outright lies from the far right. If you were really “pro-life,” you would care what happened to the millions of people suffering from debilitating conditions and diseases that this research might help.
Aquagirl
October 11th, 2010
1:52 pm
Jane, Dr. Yamanaka used a gene known to cause tumors for his stem cells, and retroviruses are involved, further raising the risk of cancer.
Like most wingnuts, science isn’t your strong suit.
Kevin
October 11th, 2010
1:57 pm
Wonderful news!!!! Science doing science – let the wack jobs be wack jobs, its what they do – and when they are in pain, they go to the Doctor and ask for medicine created by medical advances like this one happening at Shepherd.
Therightisevil
October 11th, 2010
1:59 pm
Wonderful news – science will always triumph over superstition.
Shoshanna
October 11th, 2010
2:05 pm
Checkout this article entitled “The Great Stem Cell Coverup” from the Weekly Standard.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/519gzqaa.asp
Very troubling!
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
2:05 pm
Aquagirl, that’s your best argument against using skin cells?
Fetal stem cells cause tumor in a teenage boy –
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=embryonic-stem-cells-cause-cancer-i-2009-02-19
Aquagirl
October 11th, 2010
2:16 pm
Jane, yes, embryonic stem cells cause cancer—when injected by Russian doctors who are whacking away willy-nilly with them.
Aren’t you in the least embarrassed to openly blather and try to scare people into your medieval worldview? Wait, forget I said that. Wingnuts are never embarrassed by such things, if they were, Sadie Fields would be unemployed. This crap works. How sad.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
2:22 pm
Aquagirl, Russian doctors whacking? Wot?
I’m taking it that you’ve done no research and have no interest in learning about these new methodologies, and are only interested in insulting anyone who disagrees with you and pushing your narrow agenda. That strategy cannot be working well for you.
Swede Atlanta
October 11th, 2010
2:31 pm
From the reading I have done, most if not all of the new embryonic stem cell lines are generated from embryos that otherwise would be discarded. Why not let these embryos provide a pathway to potentially life-saving or life-restoring treatments?
If you are opposed to embryonic stem cell research then don’t create embryos that would be used for this purpose. I get so tired of people saying they don’t want tax dollars used for this and that.
I am equally opposed to having any of my tax dollars go to the prosecution of unnecessary (Iraq) and unwinnable (Afghanistan) wars that result in the deaths of American military and civilians and untold innocent bystanders. I don’t want my tax dollars used to rendition people for special treatment overseas, etc.
Aquagirl
October 11th, 2010
2:39 pm
Jane, you obviously didn’t even read the article you posted to push your narrow agenda. I don’t know whether it’s your low literacy level, general disinterest in science, or what. Frankly, I don’t care.
My narrow agenda is sick people getting better. If that means insulting you, I’m quite happy to do so. maybe a few people will realize the silly junk spewed by folks like you is just that–silly junk to push your narrow agenda of hugging frozen blastocysts.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
2:48 pm
Aquagirl, of course I read it, I cited it.
Please keep being an insulting harpy, as is typical of your ilk. If this is an example of your “caring”, I can quite imagine that you’re quite the hit at parties and that you’re very adept in “educating” (alienating) your former friend and aquaintences. I hope your cats keep you warm at night.
You’re just one of the reasons that the Right will take over in November. Keep representin’
Slotl
October 11th, 2010
2:48 pm
Great news…..just on that fact alone, I am voting for Barnes.
Ralph
October 11th, 2010
2:51 pm
Only the media like the AJC which supports Democrats tries to make this a wedge issue. The electorate even according to a leftist CBS poll doesn’t mention it in their top 5:
Economy/Jobs 54%, Health care 7%, Budget deficit/National debt 3%, Immigration 3%, Education 2%, Moral values/Family values 2%, the President/Barack Obama 2%.
Fox 5 has this poll for issues in the Georgia Governor’s race: State budget 15%, Education, 15%, Jobs and the economy 64%, Transportation 1%, Water 1%
I suspect the overriding issue for most voters is which PARTY they want to control new Congressional district boundaries, appoint as federal judges, nominate for the Georgia Supreme court and control the statehouse.
Personal nominee finances, stem cell research, abortion, and any other wedge issues the AJC can come up with aren’t on the radar.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
2:53 pm
Ralph, exactly right.
Slotl
October 11th, 2010
2:55 pm
Bill Maher had a great analogy: You can put Embrynoic stem cells in a freezer for years, try that with your newborn baby and see what happens. So, tell me when does life begin?
Swede Atlanta
October 11th, 2010
2:55 pm
Citizen Jane,
And what exactly do you think the Right is going to do for you and your cause? You need to accept that most conservative politicians use the religious right for their own purposes, not the other way around.
You won’t see a consitutional amendment banning abortion, gay marriage, etc. simply because there isn’t enough support across the country to push those efforts through the required state legislatures and the politicians love to have those issues to talk about. If abortion and gay marriage were unconstitutional and there was a bright line amendment to the Constitution that gave every man, woman and child the right to carry any firearm they wanted anywhere they wanted anytime they wanted, the right wing politicians would lose wedge issues to campaign on.
nurse&mother
October 11th, 2010
2:57 pm
Aquagirl, why are you so hostile? BTW, not all Republicans disagree with stem cell development. Please do your homework. One loses credibility when one generalizes. I could make generalizations about Democrats, but I won’t. Peace out.
Aquagirl
October 11th, 2010
3:03 pm
Gosh, Jane, I’m the harpy? I’m not writing off paraplegics because they aren’t a big enough voting block.
You’re right, the right-wing will be gaining in these elections. Gay-bashing is much more fashionable than healing the sick. Keep representin’!
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
3:05 pm
SwedeAtlanta, Are you aware of the California vote on gay marriage? I wouldn’t even BEGIN to assume that the Catholic Hispanics there could be considered right wing, would you? Since when did it become a Republican state?
As a matter of fact, I support gay marriage. And, as another matter of fact the constitution does give every man, woman and child the right to carry firearms. What is your point?
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
3:07 pm
Aquagirl, you are as a matter of fact, an insufferable harpy.
Where did I “write off paraplegics because they aren’t a big enough voting block”? A quote from me would be welcomed. As a matter of fact, I submitted an alternative to heal those “paraplegics” using skin cells. Gay bashing? Where?
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
3:08 pm
BTW, Dick Cheney supports gay marriage. Obama doesn’t.
Chaps a little, dunnit?
Iconoclast
October 11th, 2010
3:08 pm
Adult stem (bone marrow) cells, do not have the ability to replicate all damaged tissues or functions in the human body. Really people, if it hasn’t gestated in a human womb, it’s neither human nor is it “life”. In-vitro, it’s a self-perpetuating bio-chemical reaction with no tether to a beating heart to feed and calibrate it. It’s a watch without a spring (or battery).
nurse&mother
October 11th, 2010
3:10 pm
Unfortunately, our government has deduced us to a two party system. There are many folks who are fiscally conservative, yet socially liberal. Yes, Aquagirl, believe it or not, not all “Republicans” fit the stereotypical molds. I take offense to your labeling me a gay basher just because I tend to vote “Republican”. I fully support my sister who is gay and other gays. If the system was set up different, maybe I could find a candidate who was socially liberal but just didn’t believe it was the government’s job to pay for EVERYTHING.
Swede Atlanta
October 11th, 2010
3:19 pm
Citizen Jane,
You missed my point entirely. I said there will never be an amendment to the U.S. Constitution (that supercedes the constitutions of the various states) banning abortion or gay marriage or gives bright-line rights regarding the carriage and use of firearms.
Why?
1. Because those opposed to gay marriage continue to decrease in number as they see that heterosexual marriages do not fall apart when gays are afforded the same rights to marry.
2. Because a plurality of Americans while they may be personally opposed to abortion (i.e. wouldn’t have one themselves) believe it is a decision to be left to the mother (and arguably the father).
3. Last but not least, amending the U.S. Constitution is a very long and difficult process. One would have thought an amendment providing a bright-line rule that women were to be treated equally to men would be a slam-dunk but not so. The Founders made amending the Constitution difficult for a reason.
4. As to firearms, there is no current Amendment that gives every man, woman and child the right to carry any and all firearms anytime they want and anywhere they want. There is an Amendment that has been perverted by the current court (conveniently not reading the part about “a well regulated militia”) into giving an individual right. But the Court made clear this is not a boundless right and left it to the lower courts to figure it out. None of the Bill of Rights has ever been recognized as being limitless and without bounds. So too the right to bear arms.
Aquagirl
October 11th, 2010
3:26 pm
nurse& mom, if you read my posts, I refer to “wingnuts” not Republicans in general. However, Republicans–apparently you included—are willing to toss gays, sick folk, raped 13 year olds, and everyone else under the bus to nominate someone like Nathan Deal. The wonderful fiscal conservative who ran out of the free-spending Congress and can’t run a business without sweetheart contracts from the State. You fully support your sister, but support a party that treats her as unable to make her own adult decisions? Yikes. Your sister is just incidental, just like anyone else run over by your own party. That’s creepy.
Jane, you agree with Ralph this is a wedge issue—I did misspeak. You don’t even consider paraplegics people, they’re “wedge issues.” Holy cow. And you wonder why I sound hostile about anti-science kool-ade drinkers?
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
3:27 pm
Swede Atlanta – The Right to Bear Arms is an individual right just as the other nine are individual rights.
Ellen
October 11th, 2010
3:28 pm
If you are against embryonic stem cell treatments, don’t have them.
David
October 11th, 2010
3:29 pm
Hey @slotl, I can come up with an equally inane “scientific” argument: Leave a baby unattended in a crib for 3 hours; try that with an embryo.
How about giving a true scientific definition of when life begins (empirical, testable, etc.)?
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
3:31 pm
Ellen – we are against ESTT because they destroy a human life! If you are against Dog Fighting then do not participate in it, but let me fight my dogs. This is the same logic that you are attempting to use. Why do we give more credence and consideration to animals than we do to our own human species – nevermind that it is just an embryo – it is a human life.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
3:31 pm
SwedeAtlanta, I have no idea why you’re discussing Constitutional Amendments vs. State’s rights. (If we want to get into that, we can discuss Arizona’s latest-dust up over enforcing their own laws (which btw, mirror Federal laws completely)
We could also get into the founder’s meaning behind “well regulated militia” being EVERY man woman and child (like Switzerland) but, we won’t do that here.
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
3:32 pm
David – you cannot have life with just sperm and you cannot have life with just an egg. You must have both to have life. When the two meet, life begins. There really is no argument here.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
3:32 pm
Aquagirl, you’re such a typical leftist. You’re twisting in the wind here and creating staw man arguments. If you’d like to stay on topic, we can have a civil discourse. If not, whatevs.
TiredofBickering
October 11th, 2010
3:34 pm
I’m so tired of the back-and-forth bickering that is well represented in this commentary. I’m a Christian and yet very excited about this research. I’m troubled slightly that some people who have abortions might feel more justified in their minds for killing a potential person if their baby’s cells are used to help others, but I agree that unfortunately, embryonic stem cells are readily available and we might as well use our God-given intelligence and judgment to determine if this resource can be put to good use to help others.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
3:42 pm
TiredofBickering, unfortunately, we have the G*d given right to discuss issues in our country. I’m sorry, if this upsets you.
mook
October 11th, 2010
3:43 pm
I fully support abortion… RETROACTIVE abortion
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
3:45 pm
TiredofBickering – If you are a Christian then you would know that God knew us before we were even formed in the womb. If that is the case then there must be a purpose for Him creating that life from the get go.
Aquagirl
October 11th, 2010
3:47 pm
Uh, tired—if it helps you sleep better at night, aborted babies are not used in stem cell research.
Truth Sayer, I’m glad you have resolved a problem that has stumped scientists, ethicists, philosophers, and religious leaders for thousands of years. All in a blog post about a political wedge issue. How did we overlook your wisdom for so long?
Jane, how ’bout you and Ralph take a field trip to the Shepard Center and explain to those folks how you consider them straw men and wedge issues. I’m sure they’ll be on board with your “whatevs.” It’s just a bunch of cripples, after all.
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
3:53 pm
Hey Aquagirl – just FYI – I am paraplegic and I am AGAINST any form of Embryonic Stem Cell research that may help me get back on my feet. I would not want to be so selfish to kill another human being to allow me to have a life where I can walk again. I guess I need to visit these forums more often in order to assert my wisdom where it is needed. I am glad that you found it enlightening.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
3:57 pm
Aquagirl, again with the strawman. (continued use = Godwinning) No one marginalizes and refuses to acknowledge the individual like the party you (so well) represent. Therefore, I can only assume that you’re projecting your own views in what you perceive to be mine.
If you care about paraplegics, victims of MS, etc, you would want alternative therapies to be tested and vetted. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge Dr. Yamanaka’s findings for uses for skin cells as an alternative to fetal cells, tells me that you have no interest in the health of these people and are only capitalizing on the fear-factor that you find so useful in pushing your party’s (perceived) agenda. But, that works for me. Because, we see where that agenda has placed your party in the polls.
Cujo Bendi
October 11th, 2010
3:58 pm
To all you presumptuous dems out there – I’m a Republican and I vehemently support this.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
3:59 pm
Truth Sayer, right on, and thank you for your input.
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
4:01 pm
Cujo Bendi – no one ever said that Republicans = Christians. That is great that you support killing human beings in an effort to treat someone with a therapy that has not been proven to even work at all. What a testament to the human race! SWEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTT!
Aquagirl
October 11th, 2010
4:01 pm
Truth, if you’re feeling so unselfish, volunteer your womb to host these frozen cells. Otherwise they’re going out in the garbage. Literally. If you’re paraplegic–bummer, but that doesn’t put you in charge of research. You don’t want a stem cell transplant, don’t have one.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
4:01 pm
Cujo, I’ll need your name and address so that I can place your name on the GOP Seditionists list. thanks in advance
It’s really hard to pigeonhole a party if everyone doesn’t tow the line.
Mark30339
October 11th, 2010
4:01 pm
It seems to me that Shepherd’s Center, and others like it, need to avoid all the non-controversial stem cell research, and make sure that only research that advances is the kind that kills human life to harvest cells. There are very powerful forces determined to push society into this new amoral zone, — and on the sidelines is a puzzled majority whose brains hurt because they are tired of the bickering.
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
4:02 pm
CitizenJane – It is my pleasure. I wish others would really see what atrosity that they are supporting.
Tracy
October 11th, 2010
4:02 pm
How much do you want to bet that every single person who opposes stem cell research would have zero hesitation for using them if they became paralyzed and science got to the point they could correct it ?
Once again we see the destructive power of altruism from the religious minded.
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
4:03 pm
Hey Tracy – how about reading this post from me – Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
3:53 pm
Hey Aquagirl – just FYI – I am paraplegic and I am AGAINST any form of Embryonic Stem Cell research that may help me get back on my feet. I would not want to be so selfish to kill another human being to allow me to have a life where I can walk again. I guess I need to visit these forums more often in order to assert my wisdom where it is needed. I am glad that you found it enlightening.
..first human trial of embryonic stem cell treatment in U.S. - PreCentral Forums
October 11th, 2010
4:06 pm
[...] human trial of embryonic stem cell treatment in U.S. First authorized study of embryonic stem cell treatment conducted at Shepherd Center in Atlanta | Po… Shepherd Center becomes site for first human trial of embryonic stem cell treatment in U.S. [...]
Aquagirl
October 11th, 2010
4:09 pm
Truth, check back in when there’s an actual cure—if you’re not too busy incubating those homeless blastocysts.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
4:10 pm
Aquagirl, way to show your liberal love for a fellow human being.
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
4:10 pm
Aquagirl – If I had a womb to offer up I would do it in a heartbeat but God did not make me that way. Can you cite any proof that ESTs have been shown to work in any fashion? If not, then why do you push this so hard? There is no proof that it works in humans. Why not alternative options as CitizenJane has so clearly pointed to?
I like my analogy better – If you do not like dog fighting, then do not participate in it. I mean people breed dogs like they are going out of style so they are going to get thrown in the trash anyway. Why not make a few bucks off of the dogs before we throw them out? Why not give of your home to help these poor animals the same way that you are asking me to give up a womb that I do not have. Never suggest something to someone that you yourself are not willing to undertake.
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
4:12 pm
Same tired argument coming from the right (wrong)…. These embryo’s would be destroyed anyway… What about that is hard to understand? (TRUTH SAYER)
They would be destroyed and now they are helping… geesh!
So you do not want big government me too… I also do not want stupid government either
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
4:14 pm
You do not support stem cell research… but you support test tube babies because of your low birth rate! Why does that make sense to you?
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
4:16 pm
Masters Degree (embryo is not possessive) who mentioned supporting test tube babies?
JJC
October 11th, 2010
4:18 pm
My sister has Parkinson’s disease. There was no hope for a cure in her lifetime until today. Thank you Jesus.
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
4:21 pm
I do not support test tube babies either. I do not support the method of how these embryos were created in the first place. Now that they are here, it is up to us – Stewards of God’s creation to take care of them. I never claimed to be from the “right” either. I am a Christian – I take no vow to any political affilication!
What is so hard to understand that when you get old Master Degree that the cost to keep you alive would be just way too much for anyone to bear, with perscription medication, treatments or what have you, so why not just not give you the care you need – I mean, you are going to die anyway right?
Your attempt at logic is foolish!
Aquagirl
October 11th, 2010
4:24 pm
Jane, don’t you mean “love of my fellow wedge issue?”
Adult stem cells are not an alternative option, truth, that would be clear if you’d read Jane’s touted article. Research should certainly continue, sure, but I’m not going to write off people while we tiptoe around your obsession with preserving frozen clumps of cells.
If God didn’t make you with a womb, whose would you like to draft? Or were you going to implant them in shopping bags?
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
4:24 pm
Hey JJC – Embryonic Stem Cells will not cure your sister. You should look at the suffering of your sister and the suffering that Parkinson’s has caused you and your family as a kiss from Jesus. Jesus did not come to earth to give us a worry-free, pain-free, or disease-free life. He came to give us life with him in enternity!
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
4:25 pm
Citizen Jane I did not get my masters in English (I am an engineer) but you did not get your reasoning in logic.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
4:27 pm
Aquagirl, you’re tiresome. People aren’t the ‘wedge’, the notion that we can only harvest stem cells from fetuses, is. I’m not sure how this point was lost on you. But, there you have it.
Fetal stem cells have been shown to cause cancer. Adult (skin) stem cells have been shown to cause cancer. Which deserves more scrutiny?
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
4:27 pm
Aquagirl – I am a man, that is why I do not have a womb to offer up. Did it really take me telling you this to understand that? Embryos are not frozen clumps of cells. Why is it OK to kill these frozen clumps of cells? Aren’t you glad that your mom did not make the foolish decision to kill you in the womb. If she had you would not be able to come on here and debate me and CitizenJane? I am glad that she did not.
I am glad that you are here.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
4:29 pm
Masters Degree, as a fellow Engineer, I should let you know that english and logic are not mutually exclusive. Some can excel at both.
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
4:32 pm
Just for the record…Freezing Embronic Stem Cells will work and freezing an adult will work. Just look at Han Solo. He was frozen in Cloud City and transported to Tatooine. Thank goodness for Princess Leia though…she unfroze ol Han and the force was once again with him and the rebel alliance. Such awesome Christian analogy with Star Wars. Thank you George Lucas!
Logical Dude
October 11th, 2010
4:41 pm
Having been deeply involved in this topic there are three things I’d like to point out:
1) For those who oppose abortion, In Vitro-Fertilization, and Embryonic Stem Cell Research; I believe life begins when brain function begins. This is a valid end-of-life measure for doctors to declare death, so I believe that a human life begins when brain function begins. That being said. Embryos have no brain function. If you believe different, I understand where you come from, but I disagree.
2) I have a kidney transplant. I am now to take immunosuppressants for the rest of my life (God willing the kidney keeps on going!). If there was a way to clone my kidney so I didn’t have to take drugs the rest of my life, I would jump at it immediately. ANY research that uses what I believe to be ethical can be done for this purpose, including embryonic stem cell research.
3) My wife & I have embryos frozen away for future use. The state last year tried to remove our ownership of these embryos and call them “life”. Of COURSE this was silly and stupid and moronic. But there are those so motivated by *something* that they’d rather use power and control than scientific reasoning for rule over the people. Rightly, the IVF community fought this hard and won the day. But evidently there are still those who still would rather take away our rights and common sense.
Aquagirl
October 11th, 2010
4:47 pm
Jane, people who lack logic often find me tiresome. Yep, I’m irritating like that. Are you still stuck on the Russians who were messing around with that kid’s brain? When you use actual doctors for treatment, the risk of cancer might be reduced, y’know.
Well, truth, there are certainly women who lack a womb, but either way, what’s your plan for these precious frozen cells? Visit their freezer and sing to them every day until a power failure? You can go on and on about stewardship and what have you, but again, the cold (no pun intended) reality is that they will end up in an incinerator. I’m not surprised you disapprove of infertility treatments. But does the phrase “none of your business” ever enter your vocabulary? Why is it okay to deny life to those children who would otherwise not be born to these couples? I bet they’re glad to be here too, even if you would have denied them their chance at life.
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
4:48 pm
Citizen Jane because I put an apostrophe in you are now clearly avoiding the issue. This is not about my english. This is about your lack of logic. My point bringing in test tube babies is clear…. You and your ilk as you would say… would have invetro fertilization (science technology manipulating life) because of fertility issues.. yet you would not help people who are already breathing and living have a better life…. again.. .how does this make sense?
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
4:50 pm
Logical Dude, more power to you. But, do you care if those life saving stem cells come from skin cells or a fetus?
I’m betting that you don’t. Which further supports the need for further and more aggressive testing in the non-controversial approach that Dr. Yamanaka is calling for. This will completely and thoroughly remove any opposition to the therapy. The fact that we’re not demanding this, tells me that this issue has nothing to do with the victims and everything to do with politics.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
4:52 pm
Aquagirl, to further your bigotry, you now intimate that Russians aren’t real doctors? Why are you ignoring the fact that research has shown fetal stem cells can cause cancer?
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
4:53 pm
Masters Degree, I’ve not discussed test tube babies and have no opinion at all on it. What is your point again?
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
4:54 pm
Logical Dude.. I am sorry to hear what you have to go through that daily. i hope this is a sign of more good news for you and people like you in the future…..
I can not understand why the right swears that they do not want big governement yet they are infringing on you..
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
4:57 pm
Logical Dude – it really does not matter when you believe life begins. It begins when sperm and egg meet. You cannot have life without one or the other. I am really miffed at why people cannot really undetstand this.
Anyway…Embryonic Stem Cell research is not considered ethical and again you scream as another selfish person that is only interested in helping yourself along by killing another human to do so. Trample the Weak – Hurdle the Dead!
Where in the Constitution of the US or the state of GA does it read that you have the right to harvest embryos?
Brain activity does not mean that one is not alive. There are many people still alive with no normal brain activity. A friend on mine thinks the same way you do – that life begins when a person can reason. Well I know of a lot of 3 year old children that cannot reason.
I cannot for the life of me understand why so many take the gift of being able to create life so lightly that we just talk about “throwing away” embryos and kill a living child in the womb. Oops, I am a man, I cannot say anything about abortion since I do not have a womb.
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
5:00 pm
I am against test tube babies because maybe God made people the way that they are because he wanted them that way. Not all people are supposed to have children. Not all people are supposed to be pro athletes. Life isn’t fair – deal with it. Life is hard and it is harder if you are stupid!
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
5:01 pm
The other reason that I am against it is because I am Catholic and I do tow that party line.
Aquagirl
October 11th, 2010
5:02 pm
Sure, Jane, there are real legitimate Russian doctors. Other researchers don’t have to guess at what they’re attempting, which is the case with the dudes injecting cells and causing cancer in that kid’s brain. Grabbing a desperate kid and playing Frankenstein is not “research.” It’s not even called good medicine. Really, try reading the article. It’s in English and everything, you don’t really have an excuse for not getting this.
Why are ignoring the fact that skin stem cells can cause cancer? The doctor DEVELOPING them says so.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
5:06 pm
Aquagirl, Steven Goldman’s lab research shows..
Steven Goldman’s lab in Rochester, NY, showing that injecting embryonic stem cell transplants in rats for various neurological conditions such as Parkinson’s disease can lead to undifferentiated growth, ie tumours.
http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v12/n11/full/nm1495.html
(also in english. Let me know if you have problems with the big words)
Howard E
October 11th, 2010
5:08 pm
“There are many people still alive with no normal brain activity.”
Many of these people are posting their opinions on blogs and calling it “Truth.”
Aquagirl
October 11th, 2010
5:09 pm
Truth Sayer
October 11th, 2010
4:57 pm
Logical Dude – it really does not matter when you believe life begins. It begins when sperm and egg meet. You cannot have life without one or the other. I am really miffed at why people cannot really undetstand this.
That really sums it up, doesn’t it? “I can’t understand why other people don’t treat my opinion as the undisputed truth, and conduct their lives as I decree. Your opinion is an opinion, my opinion is a fact.” No wonder you’re miffed.
I’m sure god decrees the exact same thing as you do, truth—funny how that happens with some people.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
5:13 pm
Aquagirl, again, you’re projecting. (BTW: it’s G*d with the uppercase “G”, it’s right next to your “F” on the keyboard, but then again, I’m sure you were just showing your disdain for Truth Sayer’s beliefs, yes?) So typical.
A dad
October 11th, 2010
5:15 pm
As a member of the religious right, I profess (to my shame) not being fully up to speed on this issue. On one hand, potentiall helping people is always a good thing, but I have to ask where these embryonic stem cells come from? I see that perhaps they come from “left over” embryos when someone undergoes invitro fertilizations. But are they harvested from an actual viable embryo? In other words, do we destroy one life to help another? Yes, I believe life begins at the moment of conception, as at that moment, a truly unique genetic profile has been created, one that was never seen before and never will be again. If we are destroying viable embryos to harvest stem cells, I have to wonder, in this screwed up world, how many Mandella’s, Salk’s, Mother Teresa’s, etc. have we destroyed? Can’t we clone the existing lines? On the slippery slope, if destroying embryos so we can harvest stem cells is permitted, then where do we stop? Does tis become a commercialy viable enterprise where a woman becomes pregnant simply to sell the empbryo for harvesting?
Please, no ideologic diatribes, and any cites to “facts” please be just that. I for one think the average person can make an informed decison, but only if the facts are accurate. So folks, let;s leave the name calling and ideological poking aside, and just stick with the facts. I wonder how many on this blog actually rely on facts for their opinions? Help me out here. Thanks
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
5:16 pm
Truth Sayer, try quoting from the Koran (use Allah for emphasis). I’m sure you’ll get more respect from Aquagirl, et al.
Flo-Ri-Duh!
October 11th, 2010
5:17 pm
Years of extensive research has show that embryonic stem cells have no better results than adult stem cells….. big money is behind this.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
5:19 pm
A dad: I’ll offer no commentary:
In all of the controversy over embryonic stem cells, fetal stem cells are often overlooked. What are fetal stem cells? Fetal stem cells some from a fetus anywhere from 8 weeks to 20 weeks gestation. The most common source of fetal stem cells are from aborted fetuses. The use of fetal stem cells in research is often presented as totally uncontroversial. The reason is because fetal stem cells are often called adult stem cells simply because they do not come from embryos.
http://www.marymeetsdolly.com/blog/index.php?/archives/929-Aborted-fetus-stem-cells-injected-into-ALS-patient.html
You can research and make your own mind up.
keller
October 11th, 2010
5:19 pm
The far right are unequivocably not only crazy but ignorant. Let’s base our opinions on LEGITIMATE scientific research, not junk science. This research has the chance to relieve untold suffering. God help us if the so-called “Christian” right prevails. What will happen is that this research will go to states that are more reasonable about this issue, thus taking jobs and money with them. And the studies that will help mankind. This research is going to happen, if not in Georgia, somewhere else. Too bad you want to destroy jobs and economic advantages. The “Christian” right is anything but Christian.
Flo-Ri-Duh!
October 11th, 2010
5:21 pm
I need to correct you Aquagirl…. it is God, not god – that’s a show of respect. Greek mythology fake gods have a lower case”g” but the real God (Bible – look it up) is spelled with a capital “G”.
Flo-Ri-Duh!
October 11th, 2010
5:23 pm
Morals are beyond these so called scientists out for a buck. Stem cells coming from embryos are no better or more effective than adult stem cells. Years of research back this up.
Logical Dude
October 11th, 2010
5:24 pm
Truth,
Thank you for your explanation of your beliefs. Your Catholic faith defines what you believe. However, we are a nation not beholden to the Church. Beliefs vary, and trying to define science based on church sayings goes against what this country was founded on.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
5:25 pm
Keller, you’re actually trying to make the argument that Christians are costing jobs in Georgia? LOL
I love this state samuch!
Logical Dude
October 11th, 2010
5:26 pm
Flo,
No, years of research have not backed that up. Bush handcuffed the ability to produce new lines of genetic research.
I’m not saying embryonic stem cells are the answer, nor against adult stem cells. I feel that it is unfair to say “one is better” based on such little progress on either side.
Aquagirl
October 11th, 2010
5:27 pm
Jane, of course you can cause cancer with stem cells—embryonic, skin, or alien implants. Kind of like how you can kill people with most any drug unless you—now prepare yourself for a BIG concept—-LEARN HOW TO USE THEM.
We may never see a time when stem cell research doesn’t have some risk of cancer. The benefit may outweigh the risk if you are dying of MS. Nobody’s trying to cure acne with this stuff.
BTW, when you’re reduced to citing the blog “marymeetsdolly” someone should revoke your google privileges.
Yep, small “g” god, I don’t respect a god anyone uses as a bully.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
5:30 pm
Aquagirl, then you should be all about supporting skin stem cell research, n’est-ce pas? Since both equally cure and kill?
BTW, if you have better google fu, please feel free to share it. And, I’m betting my next paycheck that your disdain for religion only extends to Christians.
Logical Dude
October 11th, 2010
5:31 pm
Masters,
Thank you for the support!
nurse&mother
October 11th, 2010
5:32 pm
Aquagirl, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Why are you so angry? I wholeheartedly feel for a 13 yo who is raped. Why do you ASSume I don’t? Did I ever say that or even imply that? If you would read my post, you would see that I wish our gov’t would abolish the two party system. Then I could elect someone who who was socially liberal, yet fiscally conservative. Where in the heck do you get that I don’t feel for rape victims? You ASSume many things. You seem to let your anger cloud your vision.
BTW, I used to be a bleeding heart liberal until I started working as a nurse and saw such abuse of the “system”. Folks using EMS for a ride to the hospital for things like backpain. Oh, here’s another good one….countless folks going to the ER for a pregnancy test. They can get one at the Dollar Tree for $1 but, don’t because they don’t want to pay for it. they have the option to go to the health dept which would be free and a better use of TAXPAYERS dollars. But such folks seem to think that life owes them.
It’s that $%!* that I am tired of. You are wrong when you think I WANT to vote for Nathan Deal. I think ALL career politicians should be abolished. But you don’t want to hear what I have to say or that I might have a point. So you can just pretend that you know EXACTLY what I think or how I feel. BTW, folks like you lose credibility in your arguments by refusing listen to anything folks like me have to say.
Logical Dude
October 11th, 2010
5:43 pm
Here are a few facts:
Embryonic stem cells come from embryos created through in-vitro fertilization. Embryologists inject the eggs with sperm and begin to let them grow to make sure they are viable.
Depending on the health of the embryos, between 25-75% of embryos survive to the 8 cell stage. The Embryos can then be frozen or allowed to grow to the 16, 32 and 64 cell stage (Blastocyst). Beyond blastocyst, the embryo is no longer a sphere and starts growing other features (like a tadpole). The Blastocyst is the latest stage the embryologists will grow the cells, and will freeze them at this point. Implantation can occur with the 8 cell, 16, 32, or 64 cell blastocyst, but it’s rare for 16 or 32 since the blastocyst is more stable. Embryos that undergo testing for genetic defects have a slightly lower survival rate to the Blastocyst stage. Genetic tests are important since the older the donors are, the more likely genetic defects can occur (such as missing chromasomes). Usually, embryos with genetic defects are discarded.
A typical round of In-Vitro Fertilization can yield, 25 eggs, a dozen eggs that conceive, and 8 that grow. (For a healhty couple, but can be much lower for age, health, or genetics)
Now, For those eggs that get sperm, but do NOT grow. (there are 18 of them in this example). What should we do?
a) discard them
b) freeze them since they are “life”
c) Use them for stem cell research
a) is what happens now.
b) is costly, and couples are not willing to pay to freeze unviable embryos
c) is an option, but is still rare because previous limits placed on research
I hope this helps people understand what couples go through to try to create all those eggs in the struggle for reproduction
nurse&mother
October 11th, 2010
5:44 pm
Let me clarify, I am talking about relatively young pregnant women (who don’t work) who come in for general aches and pains of pregnancy. And interestingly enough, many who admit that they didn’t have a ride, have a family member show up minutes later. Imagine that. These are the same folks who end up walking out of the hospital about an hour or so later.
There are lots of folks who need a hand UP. Many folks, unfortunately have given the small percentage of truly needy (disabled, elderly, those laid off of employment etc.) a bad name. I am all for the truly needy getting assistance. I just feel that there should be stricter guidelines. The current system has enabled many folks to just decide not to work and live off the system.
Aquagirl
October 11th, 2010
5:47 pm
Ah, nurse, you assume some things yourself– I feel for the raped 13 year old too—Nathan Deal is another story. That girl is an incubator, and she’s gonna bear that baby, durn it.You need to check his right-wing GRTA stance. Sorry, I can’t vote for someone who would do that. And really, when you vote for him, that’s what you’re supporting. And why not vote for Monds? I find the libertarian approach much more palatable than bleeding heart liberalism.
Jane, I do support the skin cell research. I’d fully fund Yamanaka’s work if I had the choice. It could help sick people. BTW Google-fu should always end with evaluating information—like saying “hmmmm, these guys in Russia were wayyyyyyy out there.”
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
5:47 pm
Nurse&mother, I’m hearing you and I agree. I’m all for individuals helping individuals (and, I do tons of that) but, only as a hand up. Never as a hand out.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
5:49 pm
Aqualgirl, I am more than happy to cite articles/statistics to support my claims. I can’t help you with the “takeaway” quote, however. You’ll need to decipher that for yourself.
Logical Dude
October 11th, 2010
5:50 pm
Nurse,
I agree the system is broken. There needs to be “urgent” areas next to “emergency” areas to direct the non-emergency folks.
I guess I missed how this went from when life begins to people coming to the ER with pregnancy pains.
I’m all for better sex education to prevent the unwanted pregnancies that abound.
nurse&mother
October 11th, 2010
5:50 pm
Last thought…I believe that it is the responsibility of churches, neighbors and communities to help the disadvanted out NOT the government. the government does not owe us anything but safety and certain liberties.
This in NO WAY means that I don’t support rape victims, gays, etc. Furthermore, I’m not sure how one could deduce that from my posts. I wholeheartedly think that gays should be able to marry. And for the record, I am a christian, Episcopalian to be exact. And for the record, I volunteer at my church’s FREE health clinic regularly. I absolutely believe in helping folks out. I also think we need to be good stewards of taxpayers money.
End of rant…Peace out (truly mean that this time) Have a good night!
nurse&mother
October 11th, 2010
5:52 pm
Dude, my posts were aimed primarily at Aquagirl, who was accusing me of not supporting gays or 13yo rape victims because I primarily vote republican. I realize I kinda went off on a tangent. (just trying to make a point and also show why I have arrived at this point of view)
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
5:54 pm
Logical Dude… DUDE… DUDE… You totally broke that down… and yet they are still going to say it is destroying “life” when the embryo would be discarded anyway!
You are now Super Logical Dude in my book.
Logical Dude
October 11th, 2010
5:58 pm
Nurse, it is unfortunate that recently it is the Republicans that
seem to beare the ones to try take away individual liberty, or reduce the availability of benefits for all. It makes it hard to support them even if they do have some good ideas otherwise.1) restricting stem cell research
2) restricting gays the ability to server honorably and honestly in the military
3) meh, I could go on. . but it’s late in the afternoon.
Don’t mean to swipe everyone with the brush, either liberal or conservative, either Democrat or Republican, etc.
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
5:59 pm
Super Logical Dude – You are welcome
Citizen Jane – spell check Qur’an not Koran… I am a Christian.. you know Christ like.. and your islamaphobia disturbs me.
nurse&mother – the biggest waste is the fraud that currently you and the Doctors are running on Americans… I just talked to Canadians 2 seconds ago and they love Canada Care! We get run in and out of our Doctors offices and get charged insane fee’s for sub par treatment….. while you worred about the broke back person getting care you do not care about the robbery that your profession is currenlty doing to us all.
Logical Dude
October 11th, 2010
6:01 pm
Masters,
yeah, I’ve been there. . . several times. . . so I know the numbers pretty well. Unfortunately, some State Senators don’t get it either, so it is up to us to educate them as best we can. Although sometimes it’s like talking to a kid who has their fingers in their ears going “LAAAAAA LAAAAA LAAAAA”
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
6:03 pm
Logical Dude, you’re too smart to be a Dem. Regarding individual liberties, I cannot believe that you’re ignoring what the Dems are doing to this country:
National (Govt imposed) healthcare
Takeover of student loans.
Takeover of GM
1% tax on all electronic bank transfers (tax)
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/09/1-transaction-tax/
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
6:04 pm
Masters Degree, I’ve read the entire Koran (english spelling) and I’ll go toe to toe with anyone who wants to debate it, include you, my english challenged colleague.
I have no phobia, about the Koran nor the Bible. Name the time and place.
Logical Dude
October 11th, 2010
6:08 pm
Jane,
LOL “too smart to be a Dem”.
1) I think a national health care system is wise, but the current implementation is flawed (My dad was in the Navy, so I’ve generally had government health care support)
2) Takeover of student loans – mine were taken over years ago- didn’t see this as Dem or Rep issue
3) Takeover of GM – I”m not sure I’d call the bailout “takeover”, but I wish there was a better way for it to have happened to save the Saturn brand.
4) 1% fee on bank transfers – yeah, that’s one of the stupidest taxes I’ve ever heard of.
5) Tax & Spend – yeah, too much spending, Gotta cut the big 3 somehow: Social Security, Medicare, and Military.
etc etc etc.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
6:12 pm
Logical – the Armed Forces benefits have always been understood as being pay for service. There is nothing free about the old implementation. What we’re seeing now is very different, and I’m shocked that you don’t understand this.
If your student loans were overtaken, I’m guessing you weren’t current.
Which of the 3 being cut (SS, Medicare/Meidcaid and Military) are you comfortable with?
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
6:14 pm
Citizen Jane – The time and the place is – Never… Psalms 1:1 Blessed is the man who does not walk in the council of the ungodly stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of the scornful…
You are morally and intellectually circumcized. This is about an Issue that your tea party is obviously wrong about…. see Logical Dudes post above.
Logical Dude
October 11th, 2010
6:17 pm
Jane,
“What we’re seeing now is very different” for healthcare. I agree with that, which is why I stated it was flawed.
“if loans were overtaken, I’m guessing you werent’ current”. No, it was the cheapest way to combine all my loans into one single payment.
Social Security – raise the benefit age by linking it to life expectancy. Same with Medicare.
Military – with wars winding down, there is no reason we can’t slice that budget 20% with very little loss in ability.
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
6:19 pm
Let’s thank President Obama for Lifting the restriction that Bush had placed on embryo testing…. Geron did this by themselves but let’s get this out there that a lot of right wingers do not support Science….
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
6:19 pm
Masters Degree, *my* Tea Party? Well, I’m flatttered.
The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and goodwill shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother’s keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
6:21 pm
Masters Degree, those who do not support science (<–small caps) like Gore?
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
6:22 pm
Logical, 20% slice in budget – Please cite. thanks in advance.
Logical Dude
October 11th, 2010
6:24 pm
Jane,
time to walk the earth like Caine from Kung Fu.
Love that movie.
Masters,
Good talking to you and thanks again!
Logical Dude
October 11th, 2010
6:26 pm
Jane,
No cite, just my own estimate that 50% of armed forces is in US, 20% in Iraq, 20% in Afghanistan, and 5% everywhwere else. With the drawdown in Iraq, that’s about 20% savings we can get.
I’m sure there are other efficiencies to be found, but it’s just my own big round number.
(I do that sometimes)
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
6:26 pm
Logical, right backatcha, me too! Thank you as well
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
6:26 pm
I think we need to start own Party Logical DUDE… I agree with you 99%…
Why is Jane always trying to put people down and act like people are mooching off the system… I worked hard and I am debt free and have several homes… and did not have mommy and daddy to help me out….
what kills me is this… most of these right wing people have had it made and lived off the backs of hard working people for life… and have the nerve to act like someone is mooching…. you and your Bernie Madeoff types should be in jail….
People need this and it is the same tire argument I hear…. just say your against science and people unless it helps you specifically.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
6:32 pm
Masters, “mooching”? The current Admin has done nothing but “mooch” and wants us to accept it as normal behavior. I’ve never been in the position to “mooch” and wouldn’t know what that was like (poor family) so, where you’re getting this class-war perception, is beyond me. I didn’t accuse you of it, and have never been blessed enough to experience it, myself.
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
6:36 pm
Citizen Jane – that is a proclamation against Ammonites… check your history.
revelations 4
Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals. And I looked, and behold,in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
6:38 pm
Masters, oh G*d forbid I insult the Ammonites. Your point?
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
6:40 pm
Which Admin has mooched? Are you speaking of the President as an ADMIN?
How about the first Bail out and the money for the companies GM was done by YOUR republican President! It was the present President that made them pay it back instead of giving it to them with ZERO conditions…
again lets get on topic… you still have not made a valid argument of opposing embryo research. Face it hot air only fills balloons.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
6:43 pm
Masters, you have no argument against skin cell/stem cell treatment, yes?
The Democrats have been the majority in Congress since January of 2007. That means that Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have been pulling the purse strings since 2007
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
6:49 pm
My point is that your are MIS QUOTING THE BIBLE!
I said why I would never meet someone like you is psalms 1
your response was from left field.. oops.. i mean right field… a curse of Ammonites… children of LOT… soddom and gommorah… thats not my Lineage.. so your off base… way off base…
God does forbid ignorance… so I suggest you learn something before you open up your mouth and prove yourself
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
6:51 pm
Citizen Jane have you heard of an Executive Order? I guess not! that usurps both houses.. and that is who.. your right wing, bottom of class, does not read, former President Bush… fact check that.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
6:53 pm
Masters LOL! You’re forgiven, no worries! Be just as ignorant and offensive as you want to be. Just as the thieves who hung next to Jesus were, you’ll be forgiven. You might not appreciate it yet, but you will, eventually.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
6:55 pm
Masters Degree, which “Executive order” are you referring to, specifically?
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
6:56 pm
Obama overturns Bush ban on Stem Cell
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-03-09/politics/obama.stem.cells_1_cancer-and-spinal-cord-embryonic-cell-research?_s=PM:POLITICS
How about you come to me with some facts…
Bush VETO’s (what Democratics tried to do) 2007
http://www.lifenews.com/bio2148.html
what now?? what next I can learn you on.. yeah I said learn you something.
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
7:00 pm
HR 810 is the bill that he VETOED…. so stop trying to blame the Dems for having control because we had a C student Pres…
I hear birds chirping… can you just say you are wrong one time.. instead of back tracking and changing the topic!
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
7:01 pm
Masters, are you a dupe?
Executive Order Expanding Approved Stem Cell Lines
he following is the complete text of an executive order issued on June 20, 2007 by President George W. Bush expanding the approved line of stem cells available for medical research from sources other than human embryos or fetuses.
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and to provide leadership with respect to research on pluripotent stem cells derived by ethically responsible techniques so that the potential of pluripotent stem cells can be explored without violating human dignity or demeaning human life, it is hereby ordered as follows:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/healthcare/a/stemcelleo.htm
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
7:02 pm
Masters, I don’t believe you’re a fellow Engineer. I’m not sure you graduated high school.
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
7:04 pm
Citizen Jane… stop googling and read!!! ” without violating human dignity or demeaning human life” He explored ALTERNATE ways to do research WITHOUT USING STEM CELLS…
do i need bigger font for you?
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
7:05 pm
Masters LOL! He EXPANDED research?!?!?! That bastid!!!!
Seriously, this is the best you can do????
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
7:06 pm
Citizen Jane are you SERIOUS!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? READING COMPREHENSION!!!!
expanding the approved line of stem cells available for medical research from sources other than human embryos or fetuses.
other than.. do you understand that… other than human embryos or fetuses…..
INot all Engineers are made the same.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
7:07 pm
BTW, Bush also spent more on AIDS research than any other President before or since, you could also slam him for that.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
7:07 pm
Masters, you’re not just reaching, you’re manufacturing. Seriously, I’ll give you a do-over
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
7:10 pm
Seriously… are you joking… you have got to be…let me see.. he Vetoes a bill to stop… meaning put a halt to EMBRYO. stem cell testing….. THEN HE makes an ORDER Expanding alternate ways…….
what are you not getting… YOU said that the DEMs could have passed some Stem cell bill and they tried but BUSH BLOCKED IT… then made an order to expand nothing… the gains in science could not be had through rubbing sticks together they need stem cells you ninny.
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
7:13 pm
LOL Masters, the research has expanded beyond the boundaries you set for it and you’re peeved?
I’m using this as an exercise in why voting Dem is completely backwards.
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
7:13 pm
This is what is up with you people who try to spin for a living …. when confronted with the facts you run.. change subjects… we are not talking about Aids…
we are talking about how you.. as a right winger came on AJC and said DEMs have had both houses since 2007 and could have done something….
I showed you a bill that was Vetoed.. and an Executive order that was saying the same language..expanding stem cell without the use of stem cells and still your clueless….
Just say your wrong… it will show that your a big person.. instead of a ninny.
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
7:18 pm
Citizen Jane
you said “LOL Masters, the research has expanded beyond the boundaries you set for it and you’re peeved?
I’m using this as an exercise in why voting Dem is completely backwards.”
Did you read it… it excluded… it did not include stem cell. Do you understand what Mutually exclusive means?
How is this an exercise in why voting Dem is backwards… we probably agree on plenty of Republican talking points .. marriage, government spending…
But you are obviously on something if you can not see that you said they DEMS had power and could have done something and I show you how BUSH usurped the DEMS by blocking the legislation and also expanding other testing and excluding stem cells… how does this not make sense to you?
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
7:19 pm
This is a typical plot by you right wingers… you will go silence when confronted by the truth… you have nothing to back up your fake facts and your surveys of your family and GOP conventions….
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
7:21 pm
Buh buh buh but….you want people to believe that the GOP is against all science not just faulty, bad science, right? We want answers, not just proof to bolster our already formed opinions. See the difference?
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
7:21 pm
birds chirping…
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
7:22 pm
Masters: are you honestly trying to argue that the Dems have not been in power since 2007? LOL!
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
7:25 pm
Citizen Jane… don’t tell me what I want… right now all I want is for you to ADMIT… that the DEMs did try to pass STEM CELL bills from 2006… BUT it way BUSH Who VETOED it and excluded STEM CELLS in his executive order… thats all i want.. you have the evidence…
All GOP might not be against it but this is proof that your top dog did veto it! and signed and executive order to exclude it from further testing….
Again thanks to President Obama who overturned your Parties foolishness….
What part of this is false??? Why you can not address this issues… I believe you minored in Politricks.
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
7:27 pm
Citizen Jane you said “Masters: are you honestly trying to argue that the Dems have not been in power since 2007? LOL!:
Ummm where did I even imply that?
I said the power was usurped by a science hating, no reading, leaving children behing, former President.
Why are you not answer.. what part of what I say is flawed??
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
7:29 pm
Bush didn’t exclude testing, he expanded it. I’m not sure how you’re missing this point. LOL
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
7:36 pm
Citizen you posted
Masters, are you a dupe?
Executive Order Expanding Approved Stem Cell Lines
he following is the complete text of an executive order issued on June 20, 2007 by President George W. Bush expanding the approved line of stem cells available for medical research from sources other than human embryos or fetuses.
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and to provide leadership with respect to research on pluripotent stem cells derived by ethically responsible techniques so that the potential of pluripotent stem cells can be explored without violating human dignity or demeaning human life, it is hereby ordered as follows:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/healthcare/a/stemcelleo.htm
can you read
George W. Bush expanding the approved line of stem cells available for medical research from sources other than human embryos or fetuses
expanded from OTHER SOURCES OTHER THAN>>> OTHER THAN>>> OTHER THAN human embryos or fetuses… YOU ARE NOT SMARTER THAN A 5th GRADER
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
7:37 pm
OTHER than.. he expanded for sources other than… you understand.. he vetoed the bill for stem cell and then had the executive order for other than stem cell..
CitizenJane
October 11th, 2010
7:45 pm
No, it’s all “stem cell”. What part are you missing?
Masters Degree
October 11th, 2010
7:55 pm
so excluding embryo stem cell ummmmm how is that all stem cells?
What are you smoking over there? they must not drug test you at your engineering firm… because you are totally waco typical right wing facist
Slotl
October 11th, 2010
8:14 pm
Believe what you want — but don’t FORCE ME to comply with your opinions.
Truthsayer said: “he is Catholic and follows the party line” All I have to say to Truthsayer is G-d gave you a brain. USE IT TO THINK FOR YOURSELF!
voice of reason
October 11th, 2010
9:24 pm
Please forgive me as I have not read all the posts. I have a question. Did I read somewhere that Masters did not want to “swipe” someone with the “brush”? But isn’t saying, “totally waco typical right wing facist” “painting” a group of people?
martial artist
October 11th, 2010
9:30 pm
Masters, I had no idea that nurses charged for care. When did this happen? And I always thought it was doctors charging for care. I think I might go to nursing school.
Ann
October 11th, 2010
10:16 pm
Congratulations and Good Luck to all the researchers, scientists, doctors and all who are involved in this groundbreaking and indeed revolutionary breakthrough. People who oppose embryonic stell cell research and therapy perhaps should acquire a disease like cancer, parkinsons, diabetes, muscular dystrophy etc. themselves. Then they may understandhow important it is. The embryos being used for this research were being discarded when they could have potentially cured people with life threatening diseases. People who have dreadful diseases with no cure in sight are indeed estatic. Many people including President Obama and Michael J. Fox have been working hard to finally see this research come to fruitation and deserve a BIG THANK-YOU.
I deeply respect President Obama for banning President Bush’s terrible decision regarding embryonic stem cell research. President Oboma is a decent and caring human being demonstrating empathy and concern for the sick who don’t have a cure for their disease. President Obama should have been President ten years ago. Perhaps we may have some cures today!
David
October 12th, 2010
1:21 am
@Ann, thank President Obama all you want, but this particular research was not prohibited under President Bush (as is pointed out in the blog post and the source article). His administration never banned embryonic stem cell research. It restricted funding, limiting it only to those stem cell lines that had already been created from destroyed embryos.
Now, some can argue that’s still getting in the way of science, but it’s hardly the reactionary religion-above-science meme that’s been presented in comments here and elsewhere. Bush’s regulation was an attempt to navigate some pretty difficult ethical waters. You may disagree with that decison, but if you go back and read President Bush’s speech announcing his decision, you’ll find that there was a lot of honest thought put into this.
And for those who keep talking about abandoned embryos: you’re absolutely right. Which is one reason why the Catholic Church considers in vitro fertilization to be wrong. Again, you may disagree with that, but the logic is consistent.
And, finally, I totally understand how some are uncomfortable with those who base their pro-life views solely on their faith. But the pro-life stance can be made without regard to religion. I’m a devout Catholic, but even if I were an atheist I’d still be pro-life.
Slotl
October 12th, 2010
9:50 am
David,
If you are sooooo pro-life, what are your feelings about end of life care (probably the most expensive part of Medicare)? I bet you are one of the first to want to cut Medicare coverage to save money.
You may object to stem cell research, but, my friend, you are not in the majority and since you are not in the majority, you may speak your peace, but let science take it’s correct place in medicine.
To correct you, Bush limited stem cell research to very few lines of stem cells. Obama has “opened” the use of stem cells DISCARDED by in vitro fertilization. Let me rephrase DISCARDED that means THROWN AWAY. What difference does it make if the stem cells are thrown away and used for a valuable purpose? ….since, in your opinion, the stems cells are “people”.
Ann
October 12th, 2010
9:59 am
I don’t believe that anything should stand in the way of advancement in the medical field. I haven’t witnessed God curing any incurable disease. I totally disagree to abortion when a woman gets pregnant and ends the life of a healthy baby. If on the other hand, the baby is diseased with an incurable disease or has a serious condition the parents can’t cope with, then it is their decision. It is their right. It is their choice. If they choose to end the pregnancy, I would never contradict their decision, or think that their decision was wrong.When it comes to embryos being discarded when they could be used to help another person, WHY NOT? I am also a Catholic.
Ann
October 12th, 2010
10:09 am
David, I am very happy that the MAJORITY of Americans are in favour of stem cell therapy, whether it is embryonic or adult. The American government should do as their citizens have requested. President Bush was a dictator when it came to embryonic stem cell therapy. He did not follow the will of the people who elected him. He vetoed the bill that the government wanted passed.
If you, a member of your family or a close friend has an incurable disease, you would understand how important it is to research everything, embryonic or adult stem cells to find cures.
CitizenJane
October 12th, 2010
12:00 pm
Ann, you said: “I don’t believe that anything should stand in the way of advancement in the medical field”
Dr. Mengele would wholeheartedly agree.
Truth Sayer
October 12th, 2010
12:04 pm
Ann – the President is not obligated to “follow the will of the people” this would be a democracy, which we are in fact NOT! The President is obligated to follow and uphold the Consititution of the United States – which would be a Constitutional Republic – which is what WE ARE! Oh yeah, the “people” do not elect the President and you have no right to vote for the President of the US. This is all done by the Electoral College.
All of you that are in favor of killing embryos to allow someone else to live keep on being happy – you will be judged for you in-action to save those who have no voice by the Lamb of God!
Truth Sayer
October 12th, 2010
12:09 pm
Ann, what do you mean somthing that the parents cannot cope with? God never places anything on us that He knows that we cannot handle. Did you know that 90% of the time a doctor makes a diagnosis that a child is “abnormal” or has a “disease” that the doctor is wrong? Ann you cannot call yourself a Catholic if you in any way shape or form support any form of abortion. It is against Church teaching and you cannot eat from the buffet line of Catholicism. The reason that we should not use Embryos that are going to be discarded is that it is wrong. These children deserve to be protected and cared for. The embryos are alive when they are discarded.
Truth Sayer
October 12th, 2010
12:13 pm
Hey Slotl – I do use my brain and think for myself. God gave me the choice to follow the world or to follow Him and His teachings. I chose God over the world for the world can offer me nothing. The party line that I tow is Catholicism.
Ann
October 12th, 2010
2:49 pm
Truth Sayer: Why are elections held if American citizens do not elect a president of their choice. Majority should always rule in a democratic country, as the U.S.A. professes to be. America never wanted a dictator.
Hopefully people who speak as you do never encounter a dreadful, incurable disease. Because if embryonic stem cell treatment would be the only option – then DIE because God hasn’t listened to anyone’s prayers with an incurable disease. Good luck! Maybe he’ll listen to your prayers.
CitizenJane
October 12th, 2010
3:53 pm
Ann: this country is not a Democratic country. As the old saying goes: Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch. We are not, were never intended to be and indeed, do not want to be, a Democracy.
Regarding the last part of your statement. Total lie. You do hope that people who speak as Truth Sayer do encounter a dreadful, incurable disease. Because, you would consider that karma, yes?
I’m sure Truth Sayer will say a prayer for you. Because that’s the kind of person he appears to be. Completely refuting the much touted belief that Christians are intolerant and hateful.
I’d rather be around a million Truth Sayers, than one of the so-called “accepting of all comers” (as long as you’re just like us) hate filled, liberals.
I'Joni
October 12th, 2010
5:16 pm
I read an article a few years ago regarding the use of stem cells to treat various incurable diseases. What concerned me (and still does) was that everyone in the previous study I read about was stricken with cancer after the treatment was underway. I wonder if they have worked out that particular issue within their research or are they just going ahead with these trials in spite of the likelihood that the patients will develop cancer afterwards? I can see parapalegics or others with diseases like Parkinson’s or AIDS agreeing to be guinea pigs for the sake of finding a cure for their respective disease even at the cost of their health. Hopefully these trials will result in cures for the patients.
Jeff Sutter
October 13th, 2010
1:21 pm
Speaking on my views. There is no life or personhood until the combined egg and sperm have attached themselves to the uterus. The Bible in all its instances refers to the womb as the beginning place for life. Given that there is no life nor any baby “cut in half” in the petri dish. Also realize that these cells are sustained in a feeder culture that would prevent ever using them for in vitro fretilization (they are among the President Bush’s grandfathered lines). Instead of pointing fingers at Democrats, Republicans, Christians or whoever get your facts straight and accurate before ranting about this. In this trial there were no babies or lives taken and I applaud Shepherd Center for engaging in the trial. I see claims here that no ESC has ever helped an SCI patient. True it has never been tried under the rigor of the U.S. FDA. If it had been it would have been listed at http://www.clinical trials.gov . What happens in third world countries where the standards and protocols are many times non-existant is hard to say. I read of ESC causing cancer. B.S. To test for pluripotency you inject the cells into an animal. If they form an undiferentiated mass they are pluripotent and useable. This undiferentiated mass could be defined as a cancer but in fact it is merely a measure of cell potency and is the desired result. Get all the facts then support or oppose it with your advocacy, your vote and your dollars. If you are not willing to investigate with an open mind then shut up. I personally have supported this for years and will continue to do so because I have taken the time to investigate and take the rhetorical, political and religious emotion out of my analysis. Yes I am both a Christian and mostly Republican.
Jeff Sutter
October 13th, 2010
1:28 pm
One more tidbit: http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRoom/HarrisPolls/tabid/447/ctl/ReadCustom%20Default/mid/1508/ArticleId/579/Default.aspx
Truth Sayer
October 13th, 2010
2:11 pm
CitJane – Thanks for the kind sentiments. Indeed I have said a prayer for Ann. My father died from cancer and if he were here today he would tell anyone that would listen that he would rather die the death willed to him by God than to take another’s life to save his own.
Ann – The reason that we have a vote for President is to give people a happy-feely feeling and to vote in a popularity contest. The Electoral College are the people who vote for the President. Read the US Constitution – 12th Amendment. Tehy meet on the Monday after the second Wednesday in December to case their votes for President and Vice President. You apparently went to government school if you believe that we are a democracy. You will not find the word democracy in any of the founding documents, on the contrary you will find that our founders abhored the mere mention of the word democracy. I love CitizenJane’s analogy of the sheep and the wolves – so true!
And lasty – just because you can, doesn’t mean that you should!
Grifter Nathan Deal is Georgia's Sarah Palin
October 16th, 2010
10:28 am
[...] is anti-stem cell research (in a state where there have been several attempts to bar embryonic stem cell research), [...]