Your morning jolt: John Linder says Tom Graves’ claim on Fair Tax is a ‘lie’

You don’t often hear a sitting congressman using the word “lie” when referring to a fellow – from the same party — who wants to be a member of the same club.

But it happened tens of thousands of times over the weekend throughout as U.S. Rep. John Linder, who’s retiring this year, declared that Tom Graves’ contention that he has “traveled the nation with John Linder to sell the Fair Tax” are overblown.

Linder’s voice was the meat of a robocall ad paid for by the rival Republican campaign of Lee Hawkins of Gainesville, who faces Graves in a 9th District runoff to replace U.S. Rep. Nathan Deal on June 8.

Linder represents the neighboring 7th District.

Listen to the robocall message here. But this is the script:

“Hello, this is Congressman John Linder. Until today, I had not intended to get involved in your election on June 8 to select your new congressman. However, I’ve been hearing from several people that Tom Graves is telling you that he has traveled the nation with John Linder to sell the Fair Tax.

“That simply is not true. When I asked him about this, Mr. Graves told me that he made a trip to Missouri with me for a Fair Tax rally. I didn’t know who he was, or why he was there. I called Mr. Graves last week, and told him that what he was telling you was flatly not true. His response was his story was good enough for him.

“If a candidate is willing to lie to you to get elected, what will you expect from him after he’s elected?

“Again, I hadn’t intended to get involved in your election. But today I ask you to vote for Lee Hawkins on June 8. Thank you.”

The Graves campaign responded by providing the YouTube clip below of Graves pushing the Fair Tax at a June 13 event in Missouri:

“In fact, Tom traveled with John Linder, Herman Cain, and Neal Boortz,” the Graves campaign declared.

Derick Corbett, chief of staff for Linder, said his boss’ point stands. While Linder appreciated Graves’ appearance in Missouri, that one trip wasn’t enough to claim that he’d crossed the nation with Linder to sell the Fair Tax, Corbett said.

The congressman, we’re told, is “perturbed.”

The Atlanta Tea Party has a 6 p.m. Saturday fund-raiser and book-signing featuring Dick Morris, the political analyst and Fox News contributer. Tickets are $50. Locale is the Sloppy Floyd building next to the state Capitol.

One of the reasons that education resonates as an issue is that, with 180,000 teachers in Georgia, chances are excellent that you know one. Attorney General Thurbert Baker established his connection at a Friday event on the coast, according to the Savannah Morning News:

At Litway Baptist Church in Savannah, the Democratic candidate lashed out at budget cuts that have led to teacher furloughs and layoffs.

“It just burns me up that we’re trying to balance the budget on the backs of teachers,” he said, drawing applause from an audience of about 20 people. “It’s just not right.”

…Any time lawmakers want to find money for a “pet project,” said Baker, who served nine years in the state House, they extract it from schools.

He said his wife, a teacher, tells him that she can babysit – but not teach – in classrooms with 35 students.

“We’ve got to start with a funding base for education,” he said.

For instant updates, follow me on Twitter.

77 comments Add your comment

Tom

June 1st, 2010
10:03 am

Morris a ‘Fox News Contributor’ – contributing news…..does that mean Fox is manufacturing news again??? Arrgh! We got enough real news – don’t need them making up more fake stuff!

Mr. Grumpy

June 1st, 2010
10:12 am

I think it’s great to see one conservative Republican kick another conservative Republican right in the gonads. Keep it up, Boys. I guess this group isn’t following His High Holiness, Saint Ronald Reagan’s 11th Commandment — “Thou shall not speak badly in public about a colleague.”

Red

June 1st, 2010
10:15 am

Who cares about the Fair Tax? It won’t be enacted. It’s impractical and requires too much to be implemented. Add to the fact that replace the tax system with something else – the government still makes the rules. How is it ‘fair’ when politicians will still be able to manipulate the tax system in no different manner than they do now.

And Linder is retiring. Who has to kiss his ring as if he’s the Pope? Seriously, let’s move on to broad based issues rather than be a single issue candidate. Any candidate here in the 7th that makes this system a priority loses my vote. Hawkins is pandering to get every little group’s support up there. If he’s banking on Linder’s taking something personal rather than having something of substance to fight about, Hawkins has become a petty candidate.

Disgusted in North Georgia

June 1st, 2010
10:15 am

What crap. Lee Hawkins got his fanny whipped in the primary and is now trying to win the run-off by telling the world how “bad” Tom Graves is. I don’t really care about Graves, but, I am very concerned that Hawkins would rather run on the negative record of his opponent rather than his own merits. Georgia deserves better leadership and the voters should make that clear to Mr. Hawkins.

CrazyInGA

June 1st, 2010
10:17 am

The entire ad is a waste of funds. Who cares if he did or didn’t travel with Linder? Not me… they are both idiots.

North Georgia Voter

June 1st, 2010
10:21 am

Go to http://www.LinderSpeaks.com for the actual recording of the phone call.

Darren Victor

June 1st, 2010
10:23 am

HTTP://WWW.LINDERSPEAKS.COM HAS THE RECORDING!

Graves lied about his relationship with Congressman Linder. Imagine that.

Mike

June 1st, 2010
10:27 am

Hey you morons. If Boortz,Linder and Cain are for it, I can guarantee it is for their benefit and not yours. Boortz only cares about himself. He’s two bit intellect.

Just Nasty & Mean

June 1st, 2010
10:45 am

It does appear that Graves lied about his traveling with Linder to support the FairTax.

Doesn’t that say something about the candidate?

If he’s going to lie, or exaggerate, to voters in the election, think how bad he’ll lie when he gets mixed up with that cesspool in D.C. and the tsunami of special interest lobbyists sleazeballs that control Congress?

This candidate has given the voters a rare–but clear—picture of who he REALLY is.
His forked tongue needs to stay home.

Capt. Call Out

June 1st, 2010
11:28 am

“Locale is the Sloppy Floyd building next to the state Capitol.”

Are the Partiers paying any rent for this event, given that it’s a (presumably) non-partisan state government building? Hate for them to get something for free, since we all know that’s not how the holy and pious market forces work.

Maxine

June 1st, 2010
11:31 am

IMO, the robocall is not about the 9th district–only the 7th, and John Linder’s desire tfor his endorsed candidate to have the FairTax “champion” title. Please read the following statement in his endorsement of Rob Woodall:

“He is alone among the field of candidates ready to continue the fight for the FairTax. Together, Rob Woodall and I made the decision to introduce the FairTax, and he has been a partner in the effort ever since. He has traveled across the country promoting the bill and has invested countless hours improving the bill and educating its critics. To succeed, the FairTax cannot simply have a supporter; it needs a champion. I commit to you that Rob Woodall is that champion”.

Sara Meadows

June 1st, 2010
11:32 am

I am much less concerned with how many times a candidate travelled the country talking about the Fair Tax. At least he was talking about it, and supports it. But what bothers me more is that Hawkins would attend 1 pep rally for the Obama Stimulus package, if he supports Obama on that, he has lost my vote in Congress.
And is it just me, or does anyone else find Linder’s voice creepy?

Paddy O

June 1st, 2010
11:38 am

Graves supporters – if you vote for this bozo, you get what you deserve. He obviously is divorced from candid conversation, which Linder attempted to get him to alter. Linder is essentially settling the claim as false, which Graves is too addicted to release this fiction. Vote for somebody else.

Paddy O

June 1st, 2010
11:40 am

Fair tax eliminates one portion of tax equation – the ability to pay. The shift will be from the wealthy to the middle class (those making less than $100,000). This is bad policy, as you are reducing spendable income from 70% of the population to provide excess funds to the already wealthy. How does this make sense? We should all be arguing how to reduce federal spending (foreign aid, 100% of federal grants, troops all over the world).

Sam

June 1st, 2010
11:43 am

The people who would NOT benefit from FairTax are:
Tax cheats who don’t report all their income (cash businesses) and criminals.
Illegal aliens, because they wouldn’t get the monthly “pre-bate” to offset the FairTax sales tax on poverty-level of spending.
IRS employees and tax preparers, because there would be no 1040 tax returns to do. Also, lawyers and accountants who devise tax avoidance programs.

The group who would gain most are people in debt. Their take-home pay would go up (no Federal Withholding) but the payments on our car loans, mortgages and (original balances of) credit cards wouldn’t. That’s 35% of most people’s pay.
States would probably propose to the Federal government that THEY perform FairTax audits of businesses when they do their current state sales tax audits. This would produce state income.

Intruder

June 1st, 2010
11:43 am

The “Fair Tax” is exactly what the country needs. Can you imagine NOT having to file a tax return every April 15th? You would only have to pay taxes if you actually bought something. Before you naysayers jump in deep water without a life preserver, you would not be paying taxes on your food or medications. The “Fair Tax” was the product of an awful lot of research and thoughtful consideration. I believe that the study was done by Harvard University. It most likely will never be enacted because of
the influence of special interest groups – but it would be a lovely thing to behold!

Sara Meadows

June 1st, 2010
11:46 am

So are you all saying Graves is not for the Fair Tax. If you watch that video, he sures makes a lot of arguments in support of the Fair Tax. Just a question, has Hawkins ever flown anywhere with Linder, Boortz and Herman Cain to promote the Fair Tax. I know he likes to go hang out with Biden, but don’t know about the others.

Sam

June 1st, 2010
11:56 am

In the FairTax, EVERY purchase except savings and investments is taxed. The “tax deduction and exemption” is the Pre-bate, direct deposited or credited to a debit card. For a single person (using 2008 data) the pre-bate would have been $199/mo. For a couple with 2 children, it would have been $537/mo.

Johnny Be Good

June 1st, 2010
12:08 pm

Fair Tax is a great platform, and I am glad Graves has always supported it.

Will Jones - Atlanta Jeffersonian Exegesis

June 1st, 2010
12:56 pm

The “FairTax” is a scam by, for, and of, the rich. May G-d grant the good and decent working Georgians in the 9th District the wisdom to vote for someone not stained by any association with the “FairTax” or Vietnam dental school draft-dodger John Linder.

Going to Missouri from Georgia qualifies as “crossing the country” and the video proves the fraud Graves was backing Linder’s “FairTax” fraud. Ergo: Linder is the liar. “Birds of Feather flock” in the Gay Old Pervert party.

[...] AJC’s Jim Galloway [...]

Al Sharpton

June 1st, 2010
2:28 pm

Looks like the liberal bloggers have taken over this site.
Remember…Obama will change water into wine and make America shine…plus he walks on water.

Mike

June 1st, 2010
2:38 pm

Graves was considered one of the rising conservatives in the GA House of Representatives. He has backing of Club for Growth and Freedom Works. For Linder to not “know who he was” speaks to how out-of-touch Linder has become with the State of Georgia, the Legislature and the State GOP. He’s obviously been in Washington for way too long.

tc

June 1st, 2010
2:46 pm

hey BOW what do you think now….

Disavantaged Insider

June 1st, 2010
2:57 pm

The TEA Party is having a fund-raiser at the Sloppy Floyd building — a KNOWN governemtn structure? That doesn’t sound very TEA Party-ish to me!

kt

June 1st, 2010
3:01 pm

What support of the FairTax really means:

“Please continue to tax me so that the international banking cartel can prosper and so that the federal government can continue to abuse the Constitution.”

The Udder Side!!!!

June 1st, 2010
3:03 pm

Intruder

June 1st, 2010
11:43 am

Please don’t believe the hype!!! The Tax figure that has been thrown around is like 23%…. i say that figure would start much closer to 30% and would be subjuct to multiple upward adjustments….. There is nohing to cap this number so as soon as federal revenues fall WAYYYYYYY out of line, you can bet that the prebates would go away and the rate would rise. Not heres your chance to call me all kinds of liberal names but not refute the facts…. Ready set, go……..

Jason

June 1st, 2010
3:04 pm

Let me get this straight. I worked all my life paying taxes on my income. Now that I’m going to retire, no one will have to pay income taxes but everyone will have to pay a huge amount of tax on everything they buy? My retirement savings is just that, savings. Under the current system I don’t pay taxes on it except for the part of it that grows. But under the “Fair” tax, my tax burden would go way up.

I spent my life saving and planning out my retirement but will have to live on noodles and beans because the price of everything is going to go up by half while my savings won’t get refunded the tax already paid on it.

Sorry kids, we retirees already paid our taxes once. You’re not going to make us pay your share too.

Thom71gt

June 1st, 2010
3:09 pm

Will Jones and Paddy O – I think you should actually read about the Fair tax and LEARN it and UNDERSTAND it before making your childish claims. All they do is show your ignorance which those of us who have read it and understand it can clearly see.

Thom71gt

June 1st, 2010
3:12 pm

Jason, you pay about 23 -24% tax on everything you buy now. It’s just embedded by the manufacturers and wholesalers. The price of everything will STAY THE SAME becasue the cost to manufacture those things will go down. The new reduced costs will cause the price to go down, add in the fair tax and then the price is right where it used to be.

Lord, you people need to read. Instead of complaining and writing something off, read about FIRST and THEN make your conclusions.

Reality

June 1st, 2010
3:18 pm

“Fair tax” is a lie right off of the bat because it is anything except for “fair.”

Reality

June 1st, 2010
3:21 pm

@Thom71gt

I know about ‘fair tax’ and it is wrong. The benefit is solely for the most wealthy that will be able to:

1. pay less taxes than they do now
2. fly to another Countrry to buy big ticket items to escape paying here

And, this ‘fair tax’ will hurt the middle and lower income people because they will be forced to pay more.

By the way, if the upper class folks will be paying less, whom do YOU think will have to pick up the slack?

The Udder Side!!!!

June 1st, 2010
3:24 pm

Thom71gt

June 1st, 2010
3:12 pm

Do you REALLY believe that any manufauture is going to reduce the cost of his items because his cost went down when he can just take that 23% plus and put it right into his pockets???? That idea works in theory, but this is the real world!!!! Even if the embedded cost are removed what incentive is there for a merchant to reduce prices?????

leftwing

June 1st, 2010
3:34 pm

First of all, I’d like to start with the fact that I’d like to get rid of the income tax as much as anyone else. However, to paraphrase Winston Churchill, “It’s a horrible system, except when compared to everything else”.

This notion of a “fair tax” is just a way to push the tax burden off of rich people and onto everyone else. Rich people, by definition, have more of the money and therefore, more “disposable personal income”. The top 2% account for roughly 40% of income tax receipts, and there’s a reason for that. They have the money. And if you think you understand the concept of the “fair tax”, just how much would Rush Limbaugh, with his $25 million/yr income, be saving?

Anyway, here’s why the “fair tax” is a lie. The U.S. GDP is roughly $15 trillion dollars, and the U.S. budget (excluding special programs like the stimulus package) is roughly $3.7 trillion. As I understand it, the “fair tax” is supposed to be 25%, and 25% of 15 trillion is . . . . $3.7 billion! What am I missing? Oh, yeah; governments aren’t going to pay tax on themselves. If we exclude the $3.7 trillion from the fed govt and (because I don’t know the exact figure, but let’s assume conservatively) guess the states account for another $1.3 trillion (it does make the numbers come out evenly), that’s $5 trillion we’re excluding, so we’re now applying the tax on $10 trillion. Therefore, the “fair tax” rate goes up to 37%.

Now, how many of your are in the 37% bracket now? Didn’t think many were. If you make $60k (median income) then your effective tax rate (excluding deductions) is probably around the 10% bracket.

If you believe in this “fair tax” concept, then all I can say is “suckers”!

Scooter (the Original)

June 1st, 2010
3:36 pm

Real change starts by demanding our politicians relinquish the muddled tax code that allows them to pick favorites without the electorate knowing, all for their benefit. If you are truly interested in change, research the FairTax for yourself, personally analyze it, ask questions and then question the motivations of its detractors.

True, it is bottom up change that will be resisted by the establishment, but don’t marginalize the effect its transparency will have on that establishment. Not to mention the vast reduction in tax collection points and significant expansion of the tax base.

Sandra

June 1st, 2010
3:44 pm

Graves is lying before the election. We have enough of that in office right now. Is that not what we are trying to remove. Lets not put another one of these (I will cross the mountains for you) officials in office. We the people must stand pat and put a real, honest, hardworking and devoted businessman into the office. Someone who really knows how to create jobs and bring forth wealth. And not by taking from me and giving to them.

Graves wants to lie to us to get elected? Imagine what he will do once he gets there. Turn Democrate. Oh the shame………….He thinks we are stupid and hes counting on it. Im not stupid. I will not vote for Graves.

Thom71gt

June 1st, 2010
3:49 pm

Udder side…. think man, this IS the real world… when every one of a company’s competitors starts lowering their prices because their costs went down and they can lower them to an amount and STILL make the SAME profit margin do you not think that the manufacturer that DIDN’T lower it’s prices would begin to suffer from consumers NOT buying their product? It’s simple economics. Of course if you don’t understand that, it’s no wonder you dont understand the Fair tax. Yes it would be nice to make the extra money, but the REAL world of econimics and competition would FORCE them to lower their prices. They shouldn’t complain because again, they would still be making the same margin. And in some cases more.

Thom71gt

June 1st, 2010
3:53 pm

Reality – you must be a low income earner if you dont thin the fair tax is fair. All illegals would pay taxes, all people who make their income illegally, drug dealers, arms dealers, etc… they would pay their fair share in taxes.

Right now, approx 10% of wage earners pay for nearly 90% of the taxes. How is that fair?

And as for your points….

1) they would pay about the same as they do now because they will continue to buy high dollar items.

2) They would be foolish to do that because with the VAT they would pay, plus the shipping for large items, it would cost them MORE to buy high dollar items out of the country than to buy it here.

The Udder Side!!!!

June 1st, 2010
4:09 pm

Thom71gt

June 1st, 2010
3:49 pm

No My friend, you are the one that is not living in the real world…..When was the last time you purchased an airline ticket??? Plenty of competition, but the airlines often collude to keep prices high, as like when one starts charging for checked bags, and the others follow suite…. Or how about this one… When natural gas is de-regulated, the free market will drive prices down… Hello!!!! I have no issue with companies making whatever dollar they can, but as aomeone said ealier transparency is the key….The notion of imbedded cost removal leading to lower cost is a trick that is so simple Sara Palin can understand it!!! The only real reform in the tax code would come in a Steve Forbes style Flat tax…. 12.5% No rebates, No prebates, No income caps, no deductions… Everyone pays the same rate. But then the folks at the top loose thier hustle and we can’t possible have that now can we????

jr

June 1st, 2010
4:15 pm

Has Rob Woodall ever spoke about anything except fair tax? I have seen he speak several times and you would think after the 18 years he said he has spent in Washington that he just might have learned somthing else but I guess not. Just another Washington insider that has learned nothing about the peoples real needs. I almost forgot, John Linder only passed 1 piece of legislation in the 18 years he was in Congress. Bye Bye to both.

Thom71gt

June 1st, 2010
4:22 pm

Udder – Im a platinum medallian member, so I buy airline tickets all the time. Was buying one probably when you wrote that. The airlines are TRYING to stay competitive and keep FLIGHT prices low so they can attract as many passengers as possible. In case you havent kept up, airlines are LOSING millions of dollars each quarter. That’s why they keep coming up with these little tricks to fill the gap somewhere while trying to keep the actual tkt price low. In order for the airlines to actually make a profit, airline tkts should probably be at least double, if not triple what they already are. But they know if they did that, they would lose a majority of their customers, much like a company that doesnt lower it’s prices after the fair tax is enabled and all if it’s competitors do.

All the nay sayers of the Fair tax come from the “poor me” entitlement croud that thinks the govt should give them everything. Gimme gimme gimme and not pay their fair share.

leftwing

June 1st, 2010
4:48 pm

Thom71gt @ 3:53 – you must be a low income earner if you dont thin the fair tax is fair. All illegals would pay taxes, all people who make their income illegally, drug dealers, arms dealers, etc… they would pay their fair share in taxes.

Right now, approx 10% of wage earners pay for nearly 90% of the taxes. How is that fair?

First, I am not a low income earner. In 2008 (my best year), I grossed over $225K and paid almost $50K in federal taxes; as much as a lot of people make in a year. I think what’s fair is when people who have more ability to pay (like me) do pay more than less fortunate (like everyone who makes less than me). I have more of what’s called ‘personal disposable income’. Meaning I have more money left over (after paying for things like food, mortgage, utilities, etc) than most people. Therefore, I can afford to pay more and not hurt my standard of living as much as other people.

BTW, not reporting income is how they got Al Capone (back in the ’30s). EVERYONE (including drug dealers, arms dealers, etc) are supposed to report income.

Will Jones - Atlanta Jeffersonian Exegesis

June 1st, 2010
4:50 pm

Pray tell where you got your degree in Economics, fool.

Thom71gt
June 1st, 2010
3:09 pm

Will Jones and Paddy O – I think you should actually read about the Fair tax and LEARN it and UNDERSTAND it before making your childish claims. All they do is show your ignorance which those of us who have read it and understand it can clearly see.v

The Udder Side!!!!

June 1st, 2010
4:50 pm

Thom71gt

June 1st, 2010
4:22 pm
There you go….. I happen to have never asked anyone including the government for anything…But I still know a hustle when I see one!!! Like I said the concept of the fair tax is fine but the as they say, the devil is in the details!!!1 You know as well as I that the reducing prices to match lower production cost is only applicable in freshman econ class!!! Everyday, there are innovations that reduce real cost, and very seldom is that reduction passed on to the consumer. I have yet to have ANYONE ( including Boortz, as I have called his show to ask) honestly explain those variables in a way the correctly reflects these realities…. The Fair Tax fans just give up the talking points presented in the book, and start calling names when you challenge their points. As I said, I know a hustle when I see one…..

Atlantarama

June 1st, 2010
5:05 pm

The richer you are, the higher percentage of income is invested, which is untaxed. The poor and middle class end up spending a higher percentage of their income, which is taxed. So the poor and middle class end up paying a higher percentage in tax than the rich.

Mary Jane

June 1st, 2010
5:10 pm

We seem to have a lot of crooks running for office this year: Graves, Oxendine, Deal, and Lord knows who else. Let’s elect an honest, NON-POLITICIAN for a change. The professional politicians are probably all at least a little crooked.

Derek

June 1st, 2010
5:15 pm

@TOM

Yep, that must be why FOX is thenumber one news network by far, and liberal rags like the AJC and the Communist News Network are going broke!

Go ahead and sip your liberal fodder, maybe the Govt will bail out the liberal news media for you!?

The Udder Side!!!!

June 1st, 2010
5:23 pm

Derek

June 1st, 2010
5:15 pm

So who America is watching on TV is an Indication of who is right on the issues??? If that is the case, Ryan Seacrest and Simon Cowell are the to smartes men in the world as American Idol has more viewer than all of the nightly news shows combined….. Even more that that coward Sean Hannity!!!!!

David S

June 1st, 2010
5:33 pm

There are a few key points that everyone MUST consider regarding the Fair Tax.

First, 15 years ago the tax was supposed to be 23%. Government spending has more than tripled since then. How can it still be 23%?

Second, the plan is for the tax to be “revenue neutral.” Again, government spending has more than tripled in only 15 years. Why is the government deserving of THAT MUCH revenue? Any simplification of the tax code MUST cut government off at the knees with regard to revenue. We MUST limit their spending and the only way to do that is to cut the amount of money they steal from all of us.

Third, Social Security and Medicare plus the new Medicare Drug benefit are all way beyond insolvent. They must be ended in some reasonable and equitable manner, and any tax program that continues to support the idea that they can be SAVED in their current form is a sham and does a disservice to the american people who have been lied to about these programs for way too long.

I don’t understand why none of these so-called conservative congressman are willing to support an end to the income tax all together and a replacement with NOTHING. We managed very well in this country for 125 years without any income tax and we can so the same today if anyone besides Ron Paul had the courage to stand by some real honest to goodness conservative principles.

The Udder Side!!!!

June 1st, 2010
5:40 pm

David S

June 1st, 2010
5:33 pm

Without any revenue source, How does the Government pay for all of those super-duper Buck Rodgers weapons systems that won’t ever see the battlefield???