Seth Harp on the 4-H wars, and a ‘11 budget gap that just increased to $2.4 billion
State Sen. Seth Harp (R-Midland) was on WGAU (1340AM) this morning. Radio host Tim Bryant kindly sent the sound along.
State Sen. Seth Harp (R-Midland)
First, Harp addressed the threat by university officials to eliminate the state’s 4-H program, directed mostly at rural Georgians. Said Harp:
“All we do is give a pot of revenue to the university systems. The university systems, through the chancellor and the Regents, have to make the allocations. They’re the ones that make the hard decisions.
“We certainly can express our opinion and say, you know, cutting 4-H is tremendously unpopular. We think it’s a good program. But ultimately, if they want to close 4-H, then they’re going to cut it and then they’ll have to live with it. I personally am deeply opposed to it.
“In fact, I was talking with some of the other legislators, and there was a thought that what we may do is pull 4-H out from under the university system entirely, as well as the agriculture, and put it in the agriculture budget.”
Then came the topic of the budget and news that state revenues continued their dive in February, dropping by 10 percent over the same month last year.
Said Bryant:
“You are saying that this $1 billion shortfall is going to be closer to $2 billion.”
Said Harp:
“No. I just came from a budget meeting with the lieutenant governor. Two-point-four now. $2.4 billion shortfall….This is for fiscal 2011.”
Does that account for stimulus dollars that disappear? Bryant asked.
Said Harp:
“It certainly does. Because what’s happening now is, because we have the shortfall in this present fiscal year, the governor is talking about pulling funds out of the stimulus money that is already set up to go in 2011.
“By pulling that out, that means when we get to 2011, we don’t have those funds anymore. And because we don’t have those funds any more – if he pulls out $350 million, which I understand he’s contemplating doing – if he does that, that means we have a $700 million hole on the other side in 2011. He spent it in ‘10, we don’t have it in ‘11. And it comes out to a $700 million additional shortfall.”
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19 comments Add your comment
norman bates
March 9th, 2010
10:57 am
Two areas that legislators will not mess with: FFA & 4-H. They will furlough teachers, reduce the number of school days, eliminate teaching positions, reduce the pay of all public employees. You name it. Legislators know they will be replaced if they eliminated money for FFA & 4-H.
GW
March 9th, 2010
11:07 am
I don’t think that anybody up there has a clue as to what is the deficit, they play with numbers like it is a game of something. I think they all need to replaced if they have opposition. I have voted Rep. all my life, but not anymore. Voting for the individual.
Chime in
March 9th, 2010
11:14 am
we would be better off to elect someone that doesn’t know crap about politics!! at least when they say “I don’t know” …….they really don’t!!
Cutty
March 9th, 2010
11:16 am
Make 4-H a fee-for-service program. I’m a city dweller and shouldn’t have my tax money paying for things that I don’t use.
Clem
March 9th, 2010
11:25 am
You are wise, GW. We all need to be voting for individuals. One of the reasons we’re in the mess we’re in is that Republicans have known they could do anything they wanted, regardless of who it hurt, and still get re-elected. A strong 2-party system brings competition into the politcal arena, and we all benefit. Blindly voting for either party is counter-productive.
rosco
March 9th, 2010
11:26 am
As usual, Harp doesn’t know what he is talking about. It is true that the USG and then USG institutions make allocation decisions from the funding given to them by the legislature. However, if the legislature drastically reduces funding to the USG, as Harp first proposed, then the USG has no choice but to make heavy cuts and focus on the very basics, which is educating college students.
For UGA, the very basics are teaching classes and research. Programs such as 4-H are nice, but they are not at the core of UGA’s mission as a university. Harp and other politicians want to it both ways. They want to dramatically slash funding without affecting non-essential pet programs they support such as 4-H. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way in the real world. Either make the drastic cuts that will inevitably result in the end of things such as 4-H and deal with the political fallout or don’t. It’s that simple. Of course, they should look to other sources of revenue as well, i.e. though things such as an increase in the tobacco world. But since they always seem to want to have things both ways, that might not happen either. I’m with GW this year. Due to their handling of the budget crisis, the Republicans in this state have now lost my allegiance.
rosco
March 9th, 2010
11:27 am
I meant to write “tobacco tax” not “world”
SWGA Politics » Breaking: State Budget Worse Than We Could Ever Have Imagined
March 9th, 2010
11:48 am
[...] State Senator (and Insurance Commissioner candidate) Seth Harp via AJC’s Jim Galloway: I just came from a budget meeting with the lieutenant governor. Two-point-four now. $2.4 billion [...]
oldfart
March 9th, 2010
12:21 pm
Why are the county extension agents for agriculture part of the university system anyway? Seems to me that should have been part of the Agriculture department in the first place.
Providing training films in spanish to landscaping companies to train their illegals is not something I want my tax dollars to subsidize. It certainly should not be a function of the university system.
Egor for real change
March 9th, 2010
12:51 pm
What about tuition and fee increases rosco know it all? or did you forget we have basically the fourth cheapest in state tuition in the country…. or did you not know. Does it strike you oddly that enrollment/transfers have increased drastically in the past two years, do you have any idea why that is? its because people cannot afford out of state tuition anymore and decide to come back and take advantage of our cheap(good) higher ed system. Look at the BUDGET INCREASES the USG got the years previous to this economic debacle. A 33% percent decrease in state revenue over two fiscal years is tough to swallow. I agree a cigarette tax could be good but all reliable studies into this shows it will reduce smoking(which is a good thing) but that also means we will not see the kind of revenue numbers some are throwing around. I recommend a sunset sales tax or something similar that will expire when times aren’t as tough. See Miller, Zell for a good example of a use of this
rosco
March 9th, 2010
2:12 pm
Egor,
Actually, I think we agree more than we disagree. I support a sunset, half a percent increase in the sales tax. I also favor a $1 tobacco tax. Together they would go a long way towards closing the budget shortfall, possibly raising $900 million.
I agree that tuition should increase at USG schools. And as much as furloughs hurt my pocketbook as a faculty member, I think they should continue as well. However, I do think that it is a good thing that tuition in Georgia is so cheap. That means that college is actually affordable, which gives people of modest means who are bright and willing to work hard a chance to move up. In my view, the potential for social mobility is part of the American Dream, and it would be ashamed to see it began to slip away in Georgia.
The solution to Georgia’s budget woes should be a mix of cuts, furloughs, fee and tuition increases and small tax hikes. We can get through this, but we should ALL share part of the pain. It isn’t fair to have one group or organization such as the USG shoulder more than its share as Harp’s original cuts would have done.
Bob Hobnobber
March 9th, 2010
2:51 pm
We need another fiscal stimulus from the feds. Republicans in Congress want to fight it because either (a) they know their history, know how vital continued stimulus was for fighting the Depression in the 1930’s, and realize that it would actually help the economy and thus the Democrats, or (b) they’re ignorant of history and too stupid to realize how important it is for the federal government to provide help to the states. Either way, it’s mostly Republicans standing in the way.
Base
March 9th, 2010
3:02 pm
Sonny has mismanaged the state budget and economy! The result is the slash and burn strategy.
Steve
March 9th, 2010
3:25 pm
4-H is part of the core mission of the University of Georgia….a State Land-Grant Institution that has the mission of taking research based information from the University to the people of Georgia. You folks who are unaware of this should look at the Morrill Act of 1862 and also look at the Smith-Lever Act of 1914. Moving 4-H to the Agriculture Department makes no sense. 4-H is an educational program and the Ag. Department is a regulatory agency.
Egor for real change
March 9th, 2010
3:39 pm
Well played and yes we do agree on most things. The legislature is just the purse, all they have stated is there could be a significant cut(300 mil) to Higher Ed in order to balance the budget. Then all it took was King Davis(Chancellor of BOR) proposing these cuts to these programs, in my opinion, with intentions to cause this dust up(He wrote a letter to every college pres encouraging them to mobolize their students-FACT). I mean is there a larger group of people in the Higher Ed budget that is statewide/mobile/politically active than the 4-H? Hell there were more 4-H folks protesting this than at the Capitol than college students. We know(hope) the cuts will not be nearly as deep but with Feb numbers down who knows. If you want some real real dirt look into the pay of the Board of Regents and it’s employees, who coincidently didn’t offer significant cuts to salaries across the board much less themselves….
Oh and good luck finding those salaries, for some reason they are not open records and not on opengeorgia.gov…. If you find them you’ll see why
Maybe a sunset increase in tuition along with getting rid of the tuition lock program may help dent. I agree there is no silver bullet… everyone must take a hit…
zinc
March 9th, 2010
4:28 pm
@Steve
You should visit Rock Creek sometime and see the $2 million ‘cabins’ they built down there. Or the $7 million renovation to their cafeteria. For the longest time 4-H rode the wave of properous times of this state because of their legislative support. Time is up. The reality is that 4-H isn’t central to the core mission of USG. It is an extension of services. UGA can still take research to the public…4-H, county extension agents, etc aren’t the only mechanism. IMO, it is a simple, easy cut. If the rural areas still want it, let them pay for it. The state shouldn’t be subsidizing the program
Gill
March 9th, 2010
5:30 pm
First Zinc it’s called Rock Eagle 4-H center and the cabins weren’t 2 million dollars they were approx. $450,000 which primarily was raised by hardworking 4-Hers and county programs, we only have one of those, and two others in the works compared to the 54 other cabins which were built in the early 1950’s and have become a little old and need to be renovated. also we din’t renovate the cafeteria we built a new one. Which had great support from the state govt. but also had a huge fundraising campaign. And educating im pretty sure is a core mission of UGA which i no on a first hand basis 4-h does along with the other 250,000 members in the state of Georgia!
Gill
March 9th, 2010
5:32 pm
Check ur facts first Zinc!
Steve
March 9th, 2010
7:45 pm
Zinc, I believe you are referring to Rock Eagle and I’ve been there many, many times. I’ve seen the place packed with young kids attending various 4-H camps. I’ve also seen the place packed with people using it for other programs and meetings, for which the university charges a fee to the users. This program is part of the mission of the The University of Georgia is tied to FEDERAL LEGISLATION. Truth is, 4-H is funded by county money and feredal money too, and 4-H kids who attend camp do pay a fee (roughly $200 for a week). Cooperative Extension trains farmers and others involved in the agriculture industry on better, safer ways to produce food and fiber. You know that agriculture is the number one industry in Georgia, right?? I don’t work for 4-H, and I’m not saying don’t cut 4-H, but you need to understand that cutting 4-H and other extension programs will have far reaching impacts to Georgia farmers and many others.