Education official: Consider reducing 180-day school year
Wrapping up a morning of hearings on the state’s 2011 budget and the monster cuts that could come with it, Scott Austensen, the deputy state school superintendent for finance, touched not one, but two third-rails of Georgia politics.
First, he told lawmakers at the Capitol, the state needs to look at reducing the 180-days of instruction now required for K-12 students. Secondly, lottery money could be used to offset some technology expenditures in public schools – something lawmakers haven’t approved in years.
Afterwards, in a scrum with reporters, Austensen said that, depending on the severity of cuts to come, budget writers need to look beyond the teacher-training days now used for mandatory time off:
“Thus far, the six-day furloughs have come out of professional development days because – by law – even though the governor [declared] the furlough days, he didn’t change the requirement of 180 days or the equivalent…
“We’re suggesting looking at how deep those cuts may be. If it’s another six days, well, maybe that’s professional development. But if it’s going to be more than six days, we need to look at giving school systems the ability and flexibility to reduce some of those 180 days.”
For instant updates, follow me on Twitter.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
250 comments Add your comment
Educator
February 24th, 2010
6:46 am
It was obvious last night on the news that quality teachers are not the priority of our legislators anymore. The comment was made by a legislator that all teachers that make over a certain amount should be pushed to retire so that they could be replaced with $30,000 dollar new teacher. This shows that they don’t CARE if the children learn, the don’t CARE if they have quality teachers they only CARE about the bottom line. I have voted Republican my entire life, but I will never vote for any Republican that is currently serving in Georgia.
Krissy10
February 24th, 2010
7:09 am
What in the world? I say cut on some high paying positions (Athletic Directors, Graduation Coaches, RESA, Intructonal Coaches, Coaching staff at high schools). Everyone says Georgia is behind many other states when it comes to education. First of all, standards in Georgia are too high. Second, what’s it going to be like if we cut days out. We are already behind teaching our students because of the furrlough days. When is this going to end? It’s definitely time for a new Governor!
SI
February 24th, 2010
7:37 am
If we have to reduce the cost of public education in Georgia, I think a better way to do it would be to raise the pupil/administration ratio. I’m pretty sure we could eliminate about half of the administration positions in public schools without sacrificing the education provided to our kids.
Average Joe
February 24th, 2010
7:46 am
To Educator’
Welcome to the private sector. Be it teaching or selling widgets, it’s all about the bottom line. These ideas only scratch the surface of the major reform needed in public/government schools. Some parents are against the idea of the four day week because of the extra expense for day care, while others want the option for three days per week at school and two with instruction at home.
Home school is on the rise in the state of GA, as is the Charter school movement. Some of the aforementioned programs give the parent more direct control over the education of their child, while some parents use the current system as a baby sitting service and have no intention of getting involved in any activities associated with the school.
Many good comments on this blog on an issue that is not going to go away until someone has the intestinal fortitude to make some tough choices.
Wednesday, February 24, 2010 « Mr. Brand’s Blog
February 24th, 2010
7:47 am
[...] http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2010/02/23/education-official-consider-reducing-... [...]
Juan
February 24th, 2010
7:53 am
Instead of cutting the school days,how about having all fat cats in the local government take a few days off also…..oh yeah I forgot they gotta keep getting rich
Jennifer
February 24th, 2010
7:58 am
So if the Governor did not waive the 180 or the equivalent, how come alternative education schools are exempted from having to meet this legal requirement ?
c
February 24th, 2010
7:59 am
I agree and disagree with most of you, cutting the 180-day year by 5 days isn’t going to hurt anyone. Making the school day longer however is just crazy, my middle schooler gets on the bus at 9 am and home at 5, this is to long in my opinion. I do think that the state education leaders should rethink the testing in Georgia, all we hear from day one is we are preparing you for the CRCT. Our children have enough stress and pressure to do well without adding this, some students do not test well but are very intelligent. My daughter is in the top 98 percent of current 6th graders in Gwinnett County, but always struggles with standarizied testing because of stress. I always tell her to relax and do her best, but our teachers push them so hard. I do not beleive that we as a state have dumb children, if parents take a better interest in the job the students are doing, we will most likely see a major improvement. (They do tend to follow adults attitudes,i.e if you don’t care, neither will they).
If my child doesn’t do well day to day at school or she brings home failing grades, she has to lose some of her computer free time. Maybe all parents should take a better interest in their students education.
c
February 24th, 2010
8:06 am
One more comment, I also have a second grader that I chose to homeschool for several reasons,but the most important being that he was being bullied by adults in the school. I love homeschool. It only takes 4 1/2 hours a day and we have a great free program for his instruction. If my middle schooler ever decideds to do this, I will have no problems with it. They still take the CRCT in the spring, but no pressure about it. I love Georgia Cyber Academy.(GCA) (www.k12.com)
pw
February 24th, 2010
8:09 am
Also, let’s stop this crct madness and get our kids back to the business of learning. My son’s school has done nothing since January except test 1st graders to take a stupid arbitrary test that means nothing. A 1st grader has no concept of testing and all it does is produce stress for them and the teachers. We need new leadership in this state. Leadership that recognizes what is important – education, public safety, jobs and housing – and stands up to the good ol’ boy network that permeates our current government.
oldtimer
February 24th, 2010
8:10 am
Cut the days after the CRCT/End of course testing….they will not be missed and not much gets done!
Mr. Grumpy
February 24th, 2010
8:12 am
It’s the Bill Orvis Whites and his ilk who want to run education like a business. It’s not a business, but it is an investment in the future of a community. Teachers are not now, nor have they ever been the problem. The problem has always been with idiot parents who think it’s exclusively someone else’s job to educate their kids. The problem is further exacerbated by parents who don’t read, can’t read and don’t encourage and support their children to read. Vouchers? If you want your kids to go to private schools, fine, but you pay for it out of your own pocket and don’t expect me to subsidize it through my taxes. You want better kids, and a more educated and enlightened community? Then you’re going to have to pay for it and not think you’re going to get it for free. I’ve been married to a teacher for more than 30 years and I see every night the two to four hours of work she has to do daily to be prepared to teach YOUR kids, many of whom have never had a parent who ever sat down with them and helped them be better readers. The next person who says to me “teachers have it easy — they have their summers off” needs to spend just one week trying to create a learning environmnet for kids in an overcrowded classroom who come to school each day with one social problem after another and often from homes (whether they be rich or poor)that discourage learning by not making it the primary reasion for that child’s existence. I couldn’t do the job of a teacher, and most of you couldn’t either. So, don’t go jumping on them until you’ve done their job (and done it well) and walked in their shoes. And whatever else you do, stop listening to these nut jobs like Bill Orvis White who have it all figured out. “Union teachers”? That may be what’s needed.
pw
February 24th, 2010
8:14 am
Let me get this straight – we can’t afford to properly education the children of our state but we can afford to build a College Football Hall of Fame?????? Wow.
Greg
February 24th, 2010
8:14 am
Love it. When the tough gets going, stick it to the population without a voice. Children don’t vote, so let’s cut their gov’t expenses.
Let’s face it, the Republican party is an elite party, looking out for the interests of the upper class. They rope in a bulk of the middle class, by promising strong values and fiscal responsibility, but don’t be fooled. Their number one priority is to benefit the rich. So when the budget crisis arises, why not cut public education. The rich don’t attend public schools, they go private.
For all those middle class people who are supporting this, I have to question your priorities. These are your kids, and in America, a successful education equates to a successful lifestyle. What the gov’t is asking you to do is sacrifice your kids future because they don’t want to do the right thing.
Educator
February 24th, 2010
8:14 am
Average Joe:
From my personal experience in education the children that go back into the public school system from home school are rarely successful. These children lack many of the basic skills and suffer in many social skills. As to your remark about the real world, educators have been in the real world. Salaries in Georgia only began to rise when Zell Miller was governor. The schools in my county all meet AYP and have some of the highest SAT scores in the state. Teachers that are doing their job should not be penalized because of poor decisions that have been by legislators for many years when they have developed budgets.
the prof
February 24th, 2010
8:27 am
Apparently, many on this blog are former Georgia high school students….
AL
February 24th, 2010
8:28 am
It’s not bad enough that summer breaks are reduced to add additional breaks throughout the year and now some idiots on this blog would suggest extending the days and dropping to a 4-day school week – hmmm….guess I should just quit my job now and get on state aid since I don’t have enough vacation to support this 4-day school week. This move would be idiotic at best and the many of the comments on this blog are also!!
Buy Danish
February 24th, 2010
8:32 am
Shortening the school year is actually a good idea, and is a much better solution than having a 4 day week with longer days (which makes after school activities/sports very difficult, if not impossible) and also makes it more difficult for working parents. It’s much easier to send a kid to camps than find care for just 1 day a week. No business can operate with a 1 day model. Note that states like Maine do not have a 180 day school year – it is 175 days and they do just fine.
vt
February 24th, 2010
8:35 am
Cammi – sing it, girl!! IT DOES NOT MATTER how much time is spent in school – it is a triangle composed of parent-school-student. Until all elements of the triangle are fully intent and committed to education, long-term education will not happen. Our kids are learning how to take a test and that is absolutely it!!! Apply that knowledge to something besides a multiple choice test?? How do you do that? I (as a parent, and former teacher) am so sick of seeing standardized tests having so much power over schools, teachers, and students. What good does it do for kids to learn facts, regurgitate them in April for the CRCT and EOC gods…and then promptly forget them? Knowledge is power? Then let’s get knowledge into our kids’ long-term memory in a consistent fashion. This changing curriculum in response to test results every other year does absolutely no good.
Not About Parents vs. Teachers
February 24th, 2010
8:37 am
The politicians in this state have exactly what they want. Parents and teachers playing the blame game. We’re so busy pointing the finger at each other, we’ve lost sight of the bigger picture. Education is being cut and other areas of the state government are not. It’s that simple. Maybe if parents and teachers worked together and started holding our GA rep.’s accountable instead of wasting time accusing each other, something might be done about this. I think the adults need to grow up sometimes.
Pamela
February 24th, 2010
8:37 am
I think instead of cutting the teachers’ pay and school days…the top Administrators for example(Dr. Crawford Lewis)salary should be cut by 50%. They should not be allowed to have a take home vehicle. They should not have an expense account; nor should they get a raise if no one else is getting a raise! Try that instead of cutting school days or teachers’ pay!
Trent
February 24th, 2010
8:38 am
I suggest that the State leaders look under their noses. There is far more money being wasted at the State level that could be cut rather than take away for the education of our children. I have seen it time and time again, the powers to be always want to cut spending everywhere except for their own pockets. This is a very stupid idea.
For those of you...
February 24th, 2010
8:40 am
For those of you who are saying that they should have longer school days…I am totally against that! Think about it….how much longer do you think a childs’ attention span will last? How long does an adult attention span last? EXACTLY…School days should be added….not shortened..nor should they have longer school days.
TGT
February 24th, 2010
8:41 am
Almost 90% of most school budgets are for salaries/benefits. Therefore, cost saving ideas that do not lower the cost of labor are minimally significant at best.
New to Ga
February 24th, 2010
8:45 am
I am new to the state of Ga. I have only been living here since August of 09. What I have noticed since living here is that the kids hardly have homework, when they do it is short and simple. The kids seem to always have a day off, for whatever reason. I agree with going to school year round. I grew up in Tennessee and we would have homework daily for each subject. I don’t feel that the state is serious about educating our children. Growing up in TN we would have our share of schools that rated low but they would have classes for the students that excel so that they would not lack instruction because of the other students in their class. No two students learn the same way, everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Since being here I have notice low rated school is proud to be low rated or at least it seems they are. I feel they get excited when they have an exceptional student vice looking at it as they should have students like this and being prepared for them. When I move to Douglas county I was told that I needed to live in Cobb or Gwinnett county for my kids to get a good education and I didn’t believe it, but I do now. Something needs to be done.
Are Your Serious
February 24th, 2010
8:57 am
Ok…so GA students rank 48th in the nation and they want to cut the school year down? Although my child has NEVER attended a public school in GA (she was born and raised here), I find it hard to believe that this is going to work. Can’t the elected officials find another way to manage the budget. And for the record, I think Purdue is a joke. Please help our students.
Reduce 180-day school year to save money : Georgia Liberal
February 24th, 2010
9:02 am
[...] want the state handle education policy, they are going to have to come up with a better idea than cutting the length of the school year to save money: Wrapping up a morning of hearings on the state’s 2011 budget and the monster cuts [...]
albert
February 24th, 2010
9:02 am
Students are required to be in core classes (Math, SS, LA, Science and Reading) for 300 minutes each day (1500 minutes per week). 300 mpd x 180 days = 54,000 minutes of yearly instruction. If a school went to a 4 day week each school day would have to provide 375 minutes per day to provide 54,000 minutes of instruction in 144 days. Teachers would make the same salary for their work. Financial benefit to the system would be not heating and cooling buildings, rolling buses, paying bus drivers school nurses, custodians and lunch room workers for 36 days, etc. for 36 days. Considering the austerity cuts over the last few years which put more of the burden on local property tax payers and the current economic downturn this is an option for local systems.
Do I believe this is good for Georgia children, no. My reason is our students will be losing 36 treatments (days of instruction) from their teachers. My educated guess is with the loss of treatments measurable educational achievement will be affected in a negative manner.
Another way to measure if this will work or not is “The mind can only learn as long as the butt can endure.” An extra 75 minutes of seat time each day might be to much for students. The question is will the 75 minutes be quality instruction time?
Factor in state testing and the fact that the state will not let elementary and middle school CRCT test be graded by system level employees (high school is) impacts learning as well. Presently CRCT testing is completed approximately 5 weeks before the end of school. If systems were allowed to have central office staff process the test electronically this window could probably be cut in half allowing for more instruction time before high stakes testing.
Average Joe
February 24th, 2010
9:04 am
Educator,
With all due respect, you’re missing the point. It’s not about what your test scores or the when GA started raising teacher salaries under Zell Miller or even your personal opinion on how Home School children interact at public/government school. The issue is lack of funding to pay for the current expenses associated with the school system. In the “real world” /private sector, you can’t take money people just because you feel you deserve more, the power to tax. The school system is having to make cuts, just like the private sector.
Granted, there are some great teachers in the public system and there are some horrible ones.
The current education and benefit system, for not only teachers, but all state employees is unsustainable, just like Social Security. The unfunded pension liability’s simply can’t be met in the next 20 years. Employees wanting to protect their position is understandable, however, when it’s done via public funding; the use of math and logic are needed rather than emotion.
Ticked Off
February 24th, 2010
9:07 am
Latitica
February 23rd, 2010
1:59 pm
I got my 6 kids in school now and can’t afford no daycare. These kids needs to be in school more!
Latitica, you’re a perfect example why school days shouldn’t be reduced……in your case, a class should have been added entitled “Birth Control Methods”. You could have used an extra “English” class too.
albert
February 24th, 2010
9:08 am
One more thing. The state funds superintendents salary’s at $54,000 per superintendent. When a system such as Dekalb or Clayton pays their superintendent $230,000 per year and an $10,000 travel account $186,000 of their pay package is coming from local taxpayers in their county. When you talk about high paid administrators most of the salary is being paid with local funds.
Sarah H
February 24th, 2010
9:12 am
If we could do away with some of the crap that goes on in some schools, 170 days would be plenty.
ie., pep rally, book fair, movies, field day, field trips, etch
Josh
February 24th, 2010
9:13 am
They need to cut the teachers pensions. According to a recent story, the average teacher pays in 67,000 over a lifetime to their pension. They take out 1.3 million!
Or they can start cutting some teacher salaries or firing those with high salaries and replacing them with those willing to work for less. One of the politicians said they could cut teachers making 100K and replace them with teachers making 40K.
Jeff
February 24th, 2010
9:15 am
Bill Orvis White,
You should read this, http://www.utexas.edu/news/2008/02/18/education_accountability/, and see how well your, “seed planted during the common sense GW Bush years,” worked out. NCLB took a bad idea from Texas and applied it to the whole country. It was not common sense, and like most of GW Bush’s ideas, it was a failure.
nolarw
February 24th, 2010
9:16 am
Fix quality, not quantity.
Susan
February 24th, 2010
9:20 am
@ those of you jumpin on the Laticia post.
Are you serious? You couldnt tell that was just some idiot trying to get a negative reaction out of everyone?
PISSED OFF PARENT
February 24th, 2010
9:20 am
How about the state stop paying millions upon millions of dollars to companies to entice them to move to our state and actually care about our children’s education. they are our future!!!!
Chris
February 24th, 2010
9:26 am
“To those decrying this proposal, are you ready to pay higher taxes?
YES!
We can pay a little more now, via a broad based income tax increase (plus restore corporate taxes recently reduced for the benefit of large contributors), or we’ll pay a lot more later in the form of lost wages and sales resulting from a non-competitive economy and higher crime and imprisonment rates.
Please, raise our taxes. If the state would give us a state of the art school system, then we’ll all be wealthier in the long run.
MM
February 24th, 2010
9:27 am
Seems like everyone is pointing fingers, Answer is simple have every school set up separately (as a branch office of corp. would be). as a private entity (see LA Schools). Admin, and teachers are set up as sub contractors with the same budget as the school would normally get. Teacher would teach, have exercise programs for the children, no BS. Low performers would be challenge, Kids who are borderline spec ed would not be put in the count for extra govt. money.
Be interesting what the results would be. Of course it easier to point fingers
GA Teach
February 24th, 2010
11:09 am
We are not unionized in Georgia……stop talking about teachers and how they have job security. Stop blaming teachers for bad parenting that takes place at home. Oh by the way—we are not a daycare—we are learning institutions. Stop basing education on the results of SAT’s. Instead of teacher and school bashing. Go to your local school and ask for a tour. Take the time to see what teachers are doing in the classroom to better the future of our society. Maybe you could offer some assistance in making our schools better. Our students, teachers and administrators want and need people in the working world to participate in educating our future.
Depressed Teacher
February 24th, 2010
12:00 pm
Technology expenditures should not even be an option in this time of budget deficits. Technology does not make for better education. A quality curriculum, effective use of school day time, and involved communities make for better education. There is so much wasted money in technology surrounding me at the Gwinnett County Public School in which I teach that it makes me physically ill. I’m sitting in a classroom with a computer projector that I don’t use because I serve students in an inclusion model,or in their classrooms. And there are ten more of these projectors sitting unused. What a waste of educaiton dollars! Students need to read, read, read, not play games, games, games.
How about looking more extensively at cutting at the central office levels, where you have hundreds of employees who have no direct contact with students when we’re discussin budget cuts?
Concerned parent
February 24th, 2010
1:43 pm
Why would they reduce the 180-day school year when Georgia is already behind in the national test taking, among other things? Then require the students to pass the tests and learn the same things at in a shorter time period. Some people will never learn.
Cut the Budget
February 24th, 2010
2:07 pm
Georgia is #48 in the nation in education quality. Whatever they are doing here, is not working. Dramatic changes are needed, but fatcats in the legislature are not about to make changes that cut off their money train with lobbyists. Redneckville will continue!!!
sickofrepterds
February 24th, 2010
8:40 pm
If parents and other taxpayers really knew how much money is being paid to Central Office employees, they would howl! I suggest you find out just how much money goes to overpaid employees such as “Learning Coaches”. Really, they are joke and don’t help anyway.
All of that money wasted to overpaid school system employees is a slap in the face to those that are doing all the hard work: the classroom teacher. Meanwhile, teachers are told by their princiPALs that they are lucky to have a job.
It would be interesting to see just how many princiPALs are getting those great bonuses while classroom teachers get the royal screw.
Shortening the school year to balance budget. Terrible idea. Terrible message. » iThinkEducation.net!
February 24th, 2010
10:09 pm
[...] From my colleague Jim Galloway over at Political Insider: [...]
Dusty
February 25th, 2010
10:23 am
To Bill Orvis White. Teachers do not have union is Ga. and benchmarks are already being done. Look into education before you spout what you don’t know. School choice is already implemented when a child attends a low performing school.
As for adding time to the day, manyof you are correct. Research states the brain can only take in so much in a day if you sit. Teachers will have to be creative in their delivery to offset this and that is not a bad idea. Too much seat time is bad anyway.
What you guys don’t realize is teachers are being furloughed to help make the state of Ga’s budget. We have bills just like everyone else but we along with other state employees are being asked to take the most paycuts to keep Ga. afloat. We get 8 weeks off in the summer yes BUT we are our paychecks are spread out over 12 months for the 10 months we work. For those of you who think we have the summer off, we get ready for the next year. We work many days in the summer at the school or home. SO BEFORE YOU GUYS THINK WE GET PAID SO MUCH LOOK AT THE TIME WE SPEND AT HOMEGRADING PAPERS—-YOU LEAVE YOUR JOB AT WORK AND HAVE A LIFE. WE CHOSE WHAT WE DO BECAUSE WE LOVE CHILDREN AND WANT TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF EDUCATION. WE CAN ONLY DO WHAT THE GOVERNMENT OF GA ALLOWS. THE TEACHERS IN GA ARE GOOD—THE SYSTEM IS HORRIBLE.
AS SOMEONE SAID PARENTS GET INVOLVED IN THE EDUCATION OF OUR CHILDREN—WE NEED YOU TO HELP US–FIGHT FOR YOUR CHILD EDUCATION–CALL YOUR SENATORS AND COMPLAIN FOR BETTER EDUCATION NOT BUDGET CUTS TO EDUCATION.
Cori
February 25th, 2010
2:37 pm
My husband and I both work and our 8 year old son goes to a good public school in Savannah. We have a few really good public k-5 schools but that is pretty much where it ends. We are very very involved in everything he does. He has always had wonderful teachers and we have always worked hand in hand to make sure he is getting the best education they have to offer. Teachers are very much under appreciated. They are helping mold our future through education one child at the time but so many of them have had to turn into babysitters and fill in parents because there are so many children that have worthless lazy pieces of crap for parents that do nothing but what is required by state law for their children. Yes we need to do a lot to improve the GA public school system but until the parents step up to the plate and earn the right to be called mommy and daddy we are fighting a lossing battle. I can’t afford to pay for private school and frankly I should not have to pay for it because I pay taxes for public education. I have a list of suggestions to help but I feel like voicing them is no different than standing in front a brick wall and talking. BUT here are a few…If you child goes to a school that is not in their district they should not be allowed to ride the bus. If you don’t want your child to go to the neighborhood school you need to take them and pick them up. Have parents volunteer to help at the schools instead of having a paid postion for something that does not require certification. I volunteer at my son’s school all the time. Make learning fun again and do away with teaching to test methods. We just had a science night and GA Power came out and did a great presentation on electricity. Every child that was there learned very valvuable information and will remember it becasue it was hands on and exciting. A 4 day school week is not the best idea in my humble opinion strictly based on the fact that working families now have to spend more money for childcare. If you want to cut the school week down to four days only do it in grades 6-12 becasue those children are old enough to not need daycare. The financial impact 4 day school weeks would have on families that need childcare would be horrible and unfortunately lots of children would be left at home unsupervised to take care of themselves all day. Nothing good can come from that.
State Budget Crises « The Harold Lounge
February 27th, 2010
12:06 pm
[...] And, though Illinois is one of the worst, at least when it comes to funding pensions, we are not the only state in a similar rough spot. In Georgia, they’re looking at going to four-day school weeks, with slightly longer hours and a shorter school year. [...]
Frank Steinberg
March 2nd, 2010
7:44 pm
We need to say NO to cutting education. Our legislators must get the message. It has been enough.
Please sing the petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/georgia1/petition.html
See:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=334831711459
We have to be united and send a clear and strong message that education is our future !
cc
March 10th, 2010
8:51 am
cutting out standardized testing for grades k-5 would save millions of dollars per year. Teachers would be able to spend alot more time teaching to learn, then teaching to test.
In regard to the shortening the school year, if it is done wisely it can have tremendous benefit to our children and budgets. I know for a fact that my children have not had instruction on all the half days over the past 10 years so getting rid of that alone will give them more instruction time..