Education official: Consider reducing 180-day school year
Wrapping up a morning of hearings on the state’s 2011 budget and the monster cuts that could come with it, Scott Austensen, the deputy state school superintendent for finance, touched not one, but two third-rails of Georgia politics.
First, he told lawmakers at the Capitol, the state needs to look at reducing the 180-days of instruction now required for K-12 students. Secondly, lottery money could be used to offset some technology expenditures in public schools – something lawmakers haven’t approved in years.
Afterwards, in a scrum with reporters, Austensen said that, depending on the severity of cuts to come, budget writers need to look beyond the teacher-training days now used for mandatory time off:
“Thus far, the six-day furloughs have come out of professional development days because – by law – even though the governor [declared] the furlough days, he didn’t change the requirement of 180 days or the equivalent…
“We’re suggesting looking at how deep those cuts may be. If it’s another six days, well, maybe that’s professional development. But if it’s going to be more than six days, we need to look at giving school systems the ability and flexibility to reduce some of those 180 days.”
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250 comments Add your comment
Elizabethean England
February 23rd, 2010
2:40 pm
Well – maybe we should put them in the workhouses and factories. All this education talk is just over rated. Make the little buggers work, and if they work hard maybe, just maybe we’ll let them read.
Otherwise workhouse and factories. No codddling
bell curve
February 23rd, 2010
2:41 pm
Bill Orvis White: Repeat after me; Georgia is a right to work state and we don’t have unions. Please move away from you “Rushisms” and join the real world.
agreeing
February 23rd, 2010
2:42 pm
I have to agree with the commenter “realist”… great points. I worry about my daughter in Dekalb’s school system b/c everyday I feel like I have to reteach what was taught. Now I can’t ask the teacher to come to my job and do my work for me so why is it than I’m teaching my daughter at home instead of reinforcing what was taught to her in school..? Cutting a few days won’t do much damage… the teachers seem to be hardly working anyway… If the money saved from cutting days is partially used to enhance the educational system in Dekalb county then I’m happy… These kids need better materials… better teachers… or at the very least motivated teachers… etc.
David
February 23rd, 2010
2:42 pm
All this talk about the savings but what about the COST? 10 less days of school or four day weeks sounds great in savings if you only think about the beauracracy saving money – but what about the cost to working families of day care or other activities for their children on all those days? What will these kids do all day? Will their idle time activities increase the cost of police or other agencies? In the end so many kids will just be left unsupervised which leads to many other problems in our community – physical injury, accidental death, accidental poisoning, drugs, alcohol, and pregnancy to name a few. If this is going to be done, someone should at least add up the COST to the taxpayers.
To me cutting the school days makes about as much sense as cutting the days on which policing is offered. Furlough all law enforcement personnel for 6-12 days scattered throughout the year and I expect there would be great savings – but again, one would have to add up the real COST.
JD
February 23rd, 2010
2:44 pm
It is about the quality of education not the quantity. I agree with Clem. I occasionally sub in a high school and on block days (2 days ea week with 90 min. classes) have watched kids zone out after 60 minutes of AP trig. Even the advanced kids can only take so much.
Also, Wisconsin, Minnesota and many other states only have their top students taking the SAT and ACT. In Georgia, all students are encouraged to take one or more of these tests. Many of these students are low achievers with poor grades and have no intentions of going to a four year college or university. Their low SAT and ACT scores are still calculated though!
HOPE has already changed their standards. A student must have a 3.0 GPA upon high school graduation in order to receive the scholarship. A “B” average student can perform very well at the college level. I don’t disagree with changing the income cap. College is extremely expensive though, and I don’t believe this should only go to very low income students. They can already get heIp with college tuition. It’s the middle income parents that need help paying for college.
Heavenly creature
February 23rd, 2010
2:44 pm
It’s pathetic to place the requirement of being globally competitive on our children. Children should be viewed as such and allowed to be children. All you who rant about this care nothing about children. I will advise my kids NOT to have children if this is the way Americans or anybody else are going to view them. Do you know why Indian and Chinese children are so “globally competitive”? It’s because their parents raised them in strict austere environments where their only “outlet” was education! No fun, no play, no toys. No CHILDHOOD! Don’t make the mistake of looking a these cultural traits as desirable. THEY ARE NOT! I will let my children be children, and all you can raise your kids the way you want. In the end my children will succeed just fine, and they’ll have happier memories to boot.
GTdad
February 23rd, 2010
2:45 pm
If they want to cut the school year, as a teacher I understand due to budget constraints. But let’s make it clear. Do not take the money from my check and family to provide any “Pork-Barrell” expenditures. If one lawmaker takes one special project, the Governor should cut his paycheck to pay for it. Don’t take it out of the teacher’s pockets to pay for something that will help these guys get re-elected. We should vote all incumbents out. They are the ones passing the laws and have caused this problem. Let’s get some new people in with new ideas on how to cut back on spending. Not take it out of one pocket to “grease the wheels” of a politician.
SA
February 23rd, 2010
2:46 pm
I am all for a 4-day school week if the kids were given assignments to do on the fifth day. Call it a self-study day or something.
SickOfIt
February 23rd, 2010
2:47 pm
“Voucherize! Voucherize! Voucherize! It’s the only way to properly run a school system. Also, fire all unionized teachers and institute weekly benchmark tests. If you’re school fails, close it and give kids a voucher to go to a winning school. This idea had its seeds planted during the common sense GW Bush years, but now, Hussein Obama has ditched this successful idea. If I had it my way, I would encourage the women to stay at home and school their kids.”
That has to be the DUMBEST post ever published on the AJC site and THAT is saying a lot.
First of all, there are NO UNIONS for teachers in Florida. Your ignorance showed up there.
Weekly Benchmark tests? MORE testing instead of teaching. Fabulous idea.
Do you have ANY idea how much vouchers would cost in the long run? Are you going to provide transportation to all of those “winning schools”? What happens when everyone wants in a “winning school” and it becomes overcrowded?
Can’t WAIT to hear this GWB clown come up with some answers.
SickOfIt
February 23rd, 2010
2:49 pm
and yes, it should have read “No UNIONS for teachers in GEORGIA”
Jacket88
February 23rd, 2010
2:50 pm
The last month of the school year is practically wasted already. Most school systems teach nothing new after the end of year government required tests are administered. This of course excludes the extra tutoring provided to the students that did not pass. Again, another example of a system that is designed for the lowest common denominator.
Klytus
February 23rd, 2010
2:54 pm
To SickOfIt: check out the following website
http://www.btuonline.com/index.asp
There are teacher’s unions in Florida!
LittlePersonNGA
February 23rd, 2010
2:54 pm
Just a suggestion to the parents (assuming so) who are concerned about the quality of education their kids are receiving and how it is hurting the kids to spend less time in school…How about we spend MORE time tutoring our children instead of complaining about the system. It obviously works. I made it through six years of schooling (middle and high) with my parents help after school and on weekends to stay on top of my lesson. This is a not a school board issue. Your child’s education is your business, FIRST.
GA Citizen
February 23rd, 2010
2:55 pm
Bob, I think you’re on to the real problem.
I’ve been watching the latest crop of idiots under the gold dome and it suddenly struck me! The legislators at the state capitol are simply a reflection of the citizens that sent them there. And hence, by logical induction, there is no hope for educational outcomes in Georgia because the citizens of Georgia, on average, are just plain STUPID.
AC
February 23rd, 2010
2:56 pm
Question… what about childcare? Are employers agreeing to reduce the work week to 4 days to accommodate these changes. I think not..
This will not only hurt the child’s future but the parent financially.
Monica
February 23rd, 2010
3:00 pm
Bus Driver, I drop my kids off at school because I don’t want to put them on the bus at 6:40 AM, which is when the bus goes down our street, especially when we live 1/2 a mile from the school. By law, schools don’t have to provide transportation to students who live within a 1 1/2 mile radius. If you want to look at savings, that’s a start.
How about a penny sales tax increase? That costs everyone (not just homeowners) an extra dollar for every hundred that they spend.
Guess
February 23rd, 2010
3:00 pm
Laticia, you should have stopped having kids if that was going to be a problem
Bob
February 23rd, 2010
3:00 pm
If you don’t want to educate your kids and take responsibility for their success, DON’T HAVE KIDS!
Anne
February 23rd, 2010
3:01 pm
Bill Orvis White & BC – The PRIVATE schools won’t accept most of the kids PUBLIC education teachers deal with on a day to day basis…..and for those of you who don’t think public education is necessary, take a look around the hospitals and nursing homes, most of the folks working there don’t have college degrees!
Nate
February 23rd, 2010
3:05 pm
Dude, they did that last session. Murray County is using a 160-day calendar this year to help deal with the budget cuts and lots more systems are considering it. What’s the disconnect between your report and what’s already happened/happening?
HS Math Teacher
February 23rd, 2010
3:06 pm
“Realist” is correct — we can cut 1 day a week without cutting instructional time (just like the 4-day work week concept), and it will save school systems TONS of money (bus costs, electricity, food for school lunches…).
The flip-side isn’t poor student acheivement (if we keep the contact hours consistent, it really shouldn’t make a significant difference) — it’s that there will be resulting costs in lots of other pockets. Parents of elementary students, many already stretched financially, will have to pay for childcare. Bus drivers and cafeteria workers will experience a 20% cut in their pay by worker one fewer day per week. Of course, maybe some of them can participate in the extra childcare jobs created…..
Cammi317
February 23rd, 2010
3:08 pm
Ummm….Bus Driver…Am I understanding you correctly? Did you say that some parents should pay extra because we drive our children to school in the mornings? Are you saying that I should be penalized because my daughter gets to sleep a few minutes later, sit down at home and have a nice breakfast and we get to spend a few extra minutes of time together every morning? Please rationalize your thoughts for me…
d
February 23rd, 2010
3:09 pm
Let’s see- 21,000,000 a year in unecessary testing-testing not required to meet AYP. This is about what seven years-147,000,000. 5% of businesses accordng to the revenue dept. doesn’t pay taxes and they knew this and let it drag on……both rep and dem agree 5% is around 250,000,000 for the last seven years equals 1,750,000,000. I could be wrong on the figures—-I wish someone check it out
rex
February 23rd, 2010
3:10 pm
If you cut school days, add furloughs, and reduce teacher pay or not allow pay to adjust with inflation, then the only teachers left in public school will be those in it for the vacation time. If you do not treat teachers well, the good onces will leave and the children will suffer.
Brian G.
February 23rd, 2010
3:13 pm
So….a four day work week will lead to more violence and kids on the streets? What exactly happens during the summer and weekends? PLEASE do not tell me that “parents are home on the weekends with their kids” because we all know that one is a joke. Has summer time all of a sudden turned into a two month crime/drug spree?
Tell you what….I graduated high school only ten years ago. I clearly remember that my summer and off days were spent doing what kids should be doing…playing sports, relaxing, and spending time with friends. Now…how is that different now a days? Oh, that’s right…because I had amazing parents who cared about where I was and what I was doing. Maybe if that idea was more widespread we wouldn’t be having these issues. Just a thought.
Bitter EX democrackkk
February 23rd, 2010
3:15 pm
Get your children OUT of government screwls as fast as you CAN !!! They will thank you forever!
TestyTurtle
February 23rd, 2010
3:17 pm
Better Idea, please tell us all who is embezzling money since that’s a big accusation to spread. I’m sure everybody legitimately trying to find answers to this state’s budget problems would love to know.
AC
February 23rd, 2010
3:20 pm
Brian G… There are many parents that are at home on the weekends and spending quality time with their children. Summer time should be spent vacationing together or the children should be at camp.
You statement a four day work week will lead to more violence and kids on the street… come on!
RH
February 23rd, 2010
3:21 pm
The government should find a way to rid our country of all illegal immigrants and their anchor children. This is one of the top reasons why our social systems, especially education, are drained to begin with.
Vouchers are not the answer and will never happen anyway.
Year Round school would be much more plausible than cutting days on a traditional calendar.
Teacher
February 23rd, 2010
3:21 pm
Georgia unfortunately is working toward abolishing all the good things that Zell Miller accomplished for education when he was governor. The children of Georgia will certainly suffer. Countries around the world that surpass in education quality have longer school years (Finland and Japan for example). While our government seeks to decrease the time a child spends in school. It is amazing to me that these officials do not realize that this is an election year and that teachers and their families are a powerful voting block in this state. At the same time it is clear through proposed legislation that our elected officials do not want teachers to achieve advanced degrees. Their only concern is that they do not have to pay these teachers for further their education by increasing their salary. Merit pay is just a backdoor way to stop paying for advanced degrees. If you look at other states you will see that teachers end up being paid much less and eventually leaving teaching or moving to states that pay a livable wage.
Section 303
February 23rd, 2010
3:22 pm
And the south wonders why it always lags in education? Why don’t you try and actually value education, instead of looking at it as a way to save money?
Dumb Georgian
February 23rd, 2010
3:23 pm
Why little Johnny can’t read!!!!!!!!!!!! There is plenty of blame. Parents! Politicians! Pupils! Teachers!
Let’s see! The Governor and State School Superintendent want to investigate CRCT results for fraud because of test erasure marks. The onus is on the principals and teachers for not doing their job! The question is not erasure marks but student understanding. What about resources? Of all the resources that go into education, I think time is the most critical resource. What will the proposed changes and reduction of the school year improve CRCT results? I think not! Will the changes keep the brightest and best teachers in Georgia? Probably not! What are the incentives to remain? You want to save money and reduce the school year–get rid of the CRCT and teachers do not have to stop teaching the test for two or more weeks. Plus you save the millions paid for testing services and proctors.
scrappy
February 23rd, 2010
3:23 pm
I think another state already did this, maybe Hawaii, and they had excellent results. I personally think it would be great if only to reduce traffic 1-day a week.
Brian G.
February 23rd, 2010
3:23 pm
AC……….that is what half of the posters have mentioned…My entire post is arguing against that fact. People say that kids being out of school for one WHOLE extra day will cause more issues then we already have. I find that to be absurd. With parenting, most kids should know the difference between right and wrong. I agree with you about summer time. That was my whole point.
Mary
February 23rd, 2010
3:24 pm
Is anyone not looking at the big picture, I see some people are agreeing with the dumb proposal of reducing the time children spend in school through out the year. Why can’t Sonny Purdue (THE BIG FAT RED NECK CHICKEN) take a reduction in his pay along with the crappy senators who are not working in the favor of struggling families, but instead working to keep their pockets fat. Along with the business that are sending our jobs over sea’s. So for you selfish people who think it’s a good Idea to cut back on a child’s education then shame on you. I am getting so sick and tired of DUMB SUNNY PERDUE lying about the budget if they manage money well we would not have this problem Georgia is the only state I know that tax for the dumbest things. So their is no way every year the state is in a deficit.
jct
February 23rd, 2010
3:24 pm
I pity the poor elementary school children and their teachers if this passes. There is not enough recess, PE, art and music and breaks in the current schedule. Cramming in more instruction time in the day just does not seem very logical at the elementary school age. Just another way to continue the femanization of elementary education. Those who can sit still (mainly girls) will continue to be praised and those who are more active learners (mainly boys at that age) will be to told they need to be medicated to be in school.
I can see this working for middle and high school but not for elementary school.
Just make up your mind!
February 23rd, 2010
3:26 pm
We are a two teacher family. We are willing to do our part and have taken the furloughs and dealt with it knowing that things are really bad right now. This constant stream of “maybes” is about to give us a nervous breakdown. “Maybe” they won’t pay us for our advanced degrees anymore. “Maybe” we will have 12 furlough days. “Maybe” we will get a 10% pay cut. At least if they would just make up their minds( and not 5 minutes before they are going to do it), we could budget and make some plans. It is so annoying! We will be at work, doing our jobs to the best of our abilities regardless but at least afford us the respect of giving us notice of what you are going to do to us so we can adjust our budgets and plan for our futures.
Avery
February 23rd, 2010
3:27 pm
Our school years (and days) are already shorter than most of the nations competing against us. On top of that, Georgia is one of the worst in our already uncompetitive country. Our current official is suggesting making the problem worse. What a disaster.
Chime in
February 23rd, 2010
3:29 pm
Are there any other states besides Georgia that are furloughing teachers??
AC
February 23rd, 2010
3:30 pm
Brian G… thank you for the clarification. One must realize when budgeting, education should never be cut. Education is our future!
RobertNAtl
February 23rd, 2010
3:32 pm
I wonder if anyone supporting this proposal has considered what will happen to business recruitment if this proposal is put into place. Who will want to move to a state that thinks schooling children less than 180 days is acceptable? Businesses will probably start moving *out* of the state. And people, too.
bell curve
February 23rd, 2010
3:33 pm
I’m sure that cutting the school year will be an excellent recruiting tool for attracting new businesses to Georgia. It is part of the Republican agenda to eliminate public school completely. They are harboring under this delusion that the “market place” is the answer to all problems. We see how well that worked with our banking system.
Avery
February 23rd, 2010
3:35 pm
Robert, it is a manifestation of a national problem. When India and China are forcing their engineering students into class 8 hours per day, 6 days per week, why would you hire Americans?
AC
February 23rd, 2010
3:35 pm
just a thought, but most likely the person(s) who is/are considering this does not have children in the public school system… It’s always easier to make a decision when it will not impact you directly…
Public School Woes
February 23rd, 2010
3:35 pm
There is so much wrong with the Georigia public school system, one minor change will not fix it. I work in a school and see it first hand. The biggest problem I see is the lack of parent involvement. It says alot when a student comes in with a fancy new phone or clothes or Ipod…. but doesn’t “have enough money” for basic school supplies…paper, pencil, poster board for a project. Then there is general disrespect of student to teacher. Many times if the parent is called, it’s “my little Suzie or Johnny” couldn’t have done that! Teachers are forced to teach to the tests which takes instructional time away from them. But guess what! They still now have less time to teach the same material! So start subtracting the time it wastes for pre and post benchmark tests every six weeks (20 – 30 min. each test), portfolio updates (too much time wasted with that!), Writing assessment and CRCT practice tests and then the actual test. Some schools also might throw in the CoGat. Of course most everyone also takes the IOWA which I do feel is needed for a national gage on how the state is doing. So after cramming all that time for data collecting, the teacher now has less time and if you don’t get it during class you need to come for tutorial. How many parents make sure the students get to football or basketball practice but don’t have the same time to pick up after staying for tutorial? Okay… enough said.. for now.
Dan B
February 23rd, 2010
3:38 pm
For people complaining about unionized teachers, there are no teacher unions in Georgia. They’re illegal.
Article from a south Georgia school system.
February 23rd, 2010
3:39 pm
http://www.albanyherald.com/home/headlines/82533772.html
Some of you might want to read on the subject and do a little bit of research (and proof reading) before you post. I am a public educator who personally believes we needed to take the furlough days to do our part. I also believe that it makes a great deal of sense to utilize a shorter school week and to start later in the year. Starting in August when energy costs are at their greatest is not smart. We claim to look at other states and then we shun certain aspects that make common sense. End the first week in June and start after labor day; this move lowers fuel costs (two trips per bus, per day minimum), lowers electricity costs, etc. Look into it. Really good results in Peach Co.
Pandora
February 23rd, 2010
3:39 pm
You all MUST be crazy to want to cut down the school days in Georgia! Our children in Georgia is already behind!!! What ever happened to the days when a teacher was a teacher so they can teach? What ever happened to those days! I am TOTALLY AGAINST
high school teacher
February 23rd, 2010
3:40 pm
Make up your mind, I am in the same boat. We try not to let it bog us down, but we are trying to decide if we book the week of vacation this summer of if we should save our money because of potential massive cuts.
I remember when “they” announced the three more furlough days a few weeks ago to even out the FY 2010 budget, “they” said that “they” wouldn’t furlough teachers next year. Then I heard someone mention a 10% cut in pay and furloughs.
To all who have posted on this blog: thank you for sticking up for teachers and for education in GA. You should stop by the Get Schooled blog sometime if you want to see some major teacher bashing…
VW
February 23rd, 2010
3:40 pm
There is answer to the education problem in Georgia – BIG DRUM ROLL – parents actually stepping up to the plate and being parents! It makes no difference if my personal children go 150, 160, 170 or 180 because their father and I will make sure they are prepared each and every day and will be respectful and do as expected! My children pass every state test because we (dad and I)have taught them since they were born. It is not hard to read a book or go outside and turn a walk into a learning experience. Yes, both my husband and I work full time jobs and still manage to raise our children.