The politics of packing heat in public places
This summer, Georgiacarry.org gathered up several Republican candidates for governor, to quiz them on their attitudes toward firearms.
The gun group is a recent entry into the annual confrontations in the Legislature over where and when licensed Georgians can carry firearms.
But its members are among the state’s most ardent believers in the Second Amendment. Many of them think that, when it comes to defending the right to keep and bear arms, the National Rifle Association has been a tad wimpish.
Georgiacarry’s top priority is the abolition of the state’s ban on weaponry at church assemblies, athletic events, political rallies, on college and school campuses, and in public buildings.
One of August’s great ironies was U.S. Rep. Phil Gingrey’s defense of those who carried firearms to fiery town hall meetings where health care reform was debated. In the Marietta congressman’s home state, the practice is illegal.
The politics of packing heat in public places is difficult for Georgia Republicans. While the base is often gung-ho, many strategists worry that the idea of hidden pistols at PTA meetings and prayer services is a middle-class turn-off.
Last week, Georgiacarry kindly provided the audio from that summer panel discussion.
One of the participants was state Rep. Sean Jerguson (R-Holly Springs), a Georgiacarry member, who said he believes so strongly in gun ownership that, when his daughter turned 4 years old, he gave her a “pink .22.” His son was about to turn the same age, and would get a blue one, the lawmaker said.
But the focus was on three candidates for governor: State Insurance Commissioner John Oxendine, state Rep. Austin Scott of Tifton, and Ray McBerry of McDonough. A stand-in appeared for Secretary of State Karen Handel. Libertarian candidate John Mond also attended.
Oxendine told the gun crowd that he thought licensed carriers should be allowed to pack heat “virtually” anywhere – except for courtrooms, prisons and jails.
“I wouldn’t feel bad at all if someone wanted to carry a gun in the Governor’s Mansion. We may go out on the back porch and shoot a few wine bottles or something,” he said.
But drinking while carrying a concealed firearm is a no-no. “Commissioner Oxendine, you’d have to change the no-alcohol policy first,” Scott interjected.
“That will be done the day I’m sworn in, don’t worry,” Oxendine said.
The spokesman for Handel declared that the secretary of state was likewise a strong believer in H.B. 615, sponsored by state Rep. Tim Bearden (R-Villa Rica), which would do away with Georgia’s public assembly restrictions.
The only Republican to disappoint Georgiacarry was Scott, who declared himself a gun enthusiast, but said he couldn’t support a wholesale dismantling of the state’s public assembly law. “I wouldn’t be honest with you if I told you that as governor I was going to let you carry firearms into a high school football game,” Scott said.
Last week, U.S. Rep. Nathan Deal said he could support an end to restrictions on firearms at public gatherings. But Eric Johnson, the former senator from Savannah, was more careful. “It is not something the campaign senses is a principle concern of Georgia voters,” said campaign manager Ben Fry. Jobs and the economy are greater worries.
That kind of division indicates that the issue of gun rights could play a significant role in the Republican primary.
(Among Democratic candidates for governor, DuBose Porter and David Poythress oppose any changes to the state’s rules on public packing. “A family should be able to go to the circus on a Friday night at Phillips Arena and feel confident that their children aren’t sitting next to someone with a loaded .357,” Poythress said. Thurbert Baker and Roy Barnes are more fuzzy.)
Georgiacarry would prefer that the public assembly debate also become a focus of the Legislature when it convenes in January. But this is less likely.
At about the same time that lawmakers gather in Atlanta, the U.S. Supreme Court will hear arguments on a Chicago case that could very well determine what restrictions cities and states can place on an individual’s right to carry weaponry.
That will cause many to argue for a postponement of any changes to Georgia’s public assembly laws.
Then there’s the matter of the man who’s no longer running for governor. With his ambition postponed, Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle, the Republican leader of the Senate, is under no immediate obligation to cater to gun interests.
Last week, at its fall retreat, the Senate GOP caucus agreed to back S.B. 291, a bill sponsored by state Sen. David Shafer of Duluth. The measure would assert the gun-toting rights of motorists driving up to drop-off/pick-up areas of Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport .
But otherwise, the bill would not tinker with restrictions on firearms in public spaces.
A 2008 bill, passed into law and backed by Georgiacarry, allowed concealed weaponry on MARTA and other forms of public transportation. But a federal judge ruled this spring that Hartsfield would remain off-limits to armed commuters.
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183 comments Add your comment
Tailgunner
October 18th, 2009
7:33 pm
…and of course, Daedalus – you know FAR better than anyone else. You have never met me, but we ALL can tell – because of your multiple PhDs from Harvard in Psychiatry, Psychology, Human Behavior, Constitutional Law, and Criminology that you are FAR better qualified to judge me than some rinky-dink outfits like the FBI, the GBI, and a county judge.- who have all agreed I am qualified to have a CCW. And then there’s that pesky old Supreme Court that says I can. too.
So tell us all – when are you appearing before the Supreme Court to state your case to ban all guns? I’m sure your suave, debonair, and learned arguments will persuade a 9 to 0 canceling of the Constitution.
But thanks for the laughs….
Tailgunner
October 18th, 2009
7:48 pm
P.S., Daedalus – we all can’t WAIT for your book! When are you sending it to print?
Then again, maybe I’ll just wait for the movie. I could use something on the TV to snooze to on the couch…
Tailgunner
October 18th, 2009
8:07 pm
I would just love to know the thought process behind some of the restrictions. I can, for example, carry concealed at the mall, but I cannot at a church or the Post Office.
Am I somehow magically 1000 times more likely to decide, on the spur of the moment, “gee – I think I’ll shoot a couple of parishioners just for the fun of it?” Or “Gee – I think I’ll go postal on everyone in here just for laughs?”
Of course not. So would someone please explain the defective theory behind all of this? Are criminals and ILLEGAL gun owners going to faithfully abide by all of these restrictions?
I somehow have the right to protect myself here, but not there? Please explain. and while you’re at it, please explain why you think a criminal with an illegal gun will obey any or all of these rules and restrictions as well.
If you wish to, you can bet that gun laws will stop criminals, and I therefore have no need to carry. You are willing to take that bet. Tell you what – if you can absolutely guarantee me the exact time, date, and place when I will need my weapon to defend myself, that is the only time I will carry it. Of course you’ll take that bet – because you have nothing to lose – you are betting with MY life.
Sorry – I’m not taking that bet.
Ike Hedger
October 19th, 2009
4:28 am
Let us focus NOT just on the right to carry a concealed weapon and where. Let us also focus to make it clear that the PERMIT process be equally fair in all counties IF the process to obtain one remains at the county level. I have had no reports in Spalding County of it, but in other areas I have.
Tailgunner
October 19th, 2009
5:43 am
The Second Amendment should be the only “carry permit” needed. It works extremely well in Vermont, where any citizen (except those who have been convicted of a serious crime) has the RIGHT to carry a concealed weapon.
Straight to the point
October 19th, 2009
7:33 am
tsk tsk tsk……….. its a sad day when the masses of people in this country allow themselves to be brainwashed by the anti-gun propaganda, and subsequently all other media hype and deception about bearing arms, LEGALLY.
Tailgunner, lets not focus on these……..”unconscious” people. Your info is ON POINT, mine is on point, and hopefully we can pull some potentially conscious people out of The Matrix.
This is just more evidence of borderline insanity these zealots have. LOL
Earlier some one mentioned Jews and Negroes….. I have the right to bring up both ethnicities and I can you you if Caucasians were only allowed to have guns, BOTH groups would be bitching about not being able to have a gun. THEN the clarity would be seen by all how vital the right to carry is.
And for the haters…i said i have the RIGHT to bring up those terms cause their in my background, SO DONT GO THERE……
Tailgunner
October 19th, 2009
8:13 am
That was me that brought up Jews and Negroes. I am not in any way prejudiced – I was just making the Constitutional point that businesses open to the public cannot bar people based on race or creed, so Constitutionally they cannot bar people on any other Constitutionally guaranteed right, as in the Second Amendment. As the Constitution does not end at their front door in terms of race or religion, neither does it end at their front door for the Bill of Rights in general, and the 2nd Amendment in particular.
You’ve made some great points, Sttp. I just wish some of these anti-gun and anti-Constitution misanthropes would take the time to read the Constitution, a few SCOTUS decisions, and stop reading and memorizing the BS pamphlets from moveon.org, the Joyce Foundation, and the Brady Campaign.
I applaud the Supreme Court’s decision to hear the landmark Second Amendment case of McDonald v. Chicago. The case will address the application of the Second Amendment to the states through either the Due Process clause or the Privileges or Immunities clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. There also could be an issue of full faith and disclosure, as for example all states recognize for example the drivers licenses, marriage licenses, divorce decrees, license plates, custody orders, and more from each and every other state and US territory – all NOT Constitutionally guaranteed rights at all, but they refuse to recognize the Constitutionally guaranteed rights of US citizens under the Bill of Rights.
Fred Chitwood
October 19th, 2009
8:35 am
I agree with the writer who said where is McBerry’s comments. The more that people get to know McBerry the more support he is going to get. He is a purist on Constitutional matters.
Tailgunner
October 19th, 2009
8:52 am
For anyone wondering:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgNUqtkXTQ8
Eric
October 19th, 2009
9:53 am
I’ve been reading everyone’s posts and there are some good arguments for and against and some bad arguments for and against. I carry everywhere I can but only decided to do so after researching the issue. I didn’t consider owning or carrying for years because I believed what I had heard about all of the accidental shootings that occur. When I researched it I found that to be very misleading. To get the leading opinions from the pro and con associations, check out the Brady Campaign which is for strict gun regulation and very limited carry priveledges and the NRA which we all know about. The Brady Campaign plays to emotions and fears much more than stats. The NRA plays to emotions and fears, but has much better stats to present. The fact is that guns owned by those with permits are statistically safer than swimming pools or many other things that people don’t think twice about.
I look at it in two ways; the record of permit holder in general and my own record of handling pressure situation.
The statistics I found illustrated, in my opinion, permit holders that misused their weapons were exceedingly rare. There are many documented cases of permit holders successfully defending themselves and in the vast majority of these cases no shots were ever fired. Most criminals are not looking for a shootout, they’d rather have an easy mark. That’s why they favor victimizing women and seniors and you rarely see NFL lineman being mugged.
Personally, while I’ve never been a cop or fireman, If I see a situation, be it an assault, car accident, fire or what have you, I’ve always acted. One of the situations which lead me to think about carrying was when I ran into a patch of woods because someone shouted that a woman was being mugged by several assailants. I ran in and, fortunately two men followed me and the attackers ran off. What would have happened if I went alone and unarmed? Not every civilian falls apart in the face of danger as many on this thread have asserted.
As far as the assertions that if more people had guns legally, their would be shootouts in the streets. Statistically there is no substantial drop or increase in gun violence when carry laws are permitted, but the vast majority (almost 100%) of gun crimes are committed by non permit holders. As far as gun free zones, using a gun is a far more serious offense than carrying in a gun free zone, so it stands to reason that if someone wanted to use their gun for ill purpose a sign and a lesser charge of carrying probably isn’t much of a deterant to that person, but it is to the legal permit holder who may have a chance of stopping of minimizing the damage they do.
One last thing, for anyone who believes that we just shouldn’t have guns, there is no realistic way to make them go away. If not one gun or bullet was ever sold again in the U.S., we’d still have more than enough to keep criminals well armed. We can’t stop (or choose not to stop) drugs or illegal immigrants from coming into the country, why would we assume we could stop guns? Plus, there are enough guns in existence to last for generations.
Do I carry a gun because I’m always frightened? No. I wear a seatbelt but I’m not in constant fear of an accident. I have a fire extinguisher but I’m not always afraid of my house burning down. To me it is just a sensible step I take as someone who does not simply hand his well being and that of his family over to a government or simply to fate to take care of.
Liberal White Chick
October 19th, 2009
11:27 am
While I still loathe what the gun industry has done to this country, I’ve seen the reality. Right-wing fear mongers and haters have escalated their nasty rhetoric to panic levels, and they’re walking around blaming people like ME (non-neocon-wingnut) for all their problems. And when poop hits the fan (as Katrina showed us), there will be no cops around to defend lil’ ol’ me or my silly lil’ ol’ rights. I hate that I have to fear my mentally-disturbed neighbors, but my visit to a town hall meeting (filled with right-wing Obama haters who blame people like me for all their imagined woes) taught me that I should take their psychotic delusions seriously and pack my own piece.
Everybody take a deep breath
October 19th, 2009
12:19 pm
Why would a Georgia Firearms License holder be any more likely to go ape sh*t and start killing people at a football game or PTA meeting than he or she would at a crowded restaurant or while walking down the street? Both of the latter are completely legal under Georgia law.
Everybody take a deep breath
October 19th, 2009
12:26 pm
…and well said, Eric. Although, that was a tad too cogent and unemotional to be found on the internet.
Tailgunner
October 19th, 2009
12:36 pm
I challenge any one of you to find 10 DOCUMENTED (as in police reports or FBI / GBI statistics – not the BS from the Brady Bunch) of LEGAL CCW holders committing a crime involving illegal use of a firearm in Georgia. Go ahead. Post the links here. That’s only 10 out of the several hundred thousand CCW holders in GA.
You can’t post them – because there AREN’T even 10.
Now – you want to deny everyone their 2nd Amendment rights….why?
Your justification for negating the Bill of Rights for EVERYBODY is……..what?
Your irrational paranoia over my having a concealed weapon when I walk by you in the mall is….for what reason?
Liberal White Chick
October 19th, 2009
1:15 pm
Tailgunner, I think you SHOULD take your gun to church. That way, next time some right-wing whack job comes in to shoot up a church for being “too liberal,” (Knoxville, TN, July 2008) you can take him out. Apparently, ALL the right-wing whack jobs are armed. Now, so am I. Feel safer yet?
Eric
October 19th, 2009
3:36 pm
Liberal White Chick, with all due respect, not all of us are hate-filled whackos. The reality is that I agree with you that Katrina was an example that individuals who rely completely on the government for their safety are going to be let down. I am an avid supporter of the police, but it takes an average of 3 minutes for the police to respond to a call. That’s an unbelievably good response time, but think about what could happen in 3 minutes; that is if you get the chance to make a call. Most violent situations happen fast and are over fast. I have come to the conclusion that I trust myself to act appropriately if a situation does arise and, though I can’t speak for anyone but myself, I read, study and train to better my chances. Carrying a gun has actually kept my temper in check because I know that there is more at stake. If I get in an argument with someone over a parking spot it can get real ugly real quick, so I move on to another spot. Again, I can’t speak for everyone and there are certainly hotheads out there carrying, but the vast majority of permit holders I know and talk with are level headed people who want the right to get home with their families safely every day and hope they never have to pull their gun except for at the range. The hostility you’re seeing on t.v. doesn’t reflect the average permit holder.
Dave Wallace
October 19th, 2009
7:12 pm
Liberal White Chick YOU ROCK!
Dave Wallace
October 19th, 2009
7:16 pm
Tailgunner will be the next Plaxico Burress.
SadButTrue
October 19th, 2009
7:21 pm
Mention guns or immigration on a blog and every trailer park in Georgia comes alive. What a bunch of rednecks.
Tailgunner
October 19th, 2009
7:46 pm
Dave Wallace – I’ll be the next Plaxico Burress? Yeah – right.
And you’ll be the next victim of a home invasion I see on the news. Your wife will be the next rape victim. Your kids will be the next subjects of some sicko SOB snatching them out their bedroom window in the middle of the night – while you cower under the covers.
A completely stupid statement on your part, Davie boy. I notice you didn’t bother to do any research that I asked you and the rest of the anti-gun crowd about, to wit:
“I challenge any one of you to find 10 DOCUMENTED (as in police reports or FBI / GBI statistics – not the BS from the Brady Bunch) of LEGAL CCW holders committing a crime involving illegal use of a firearm in Georgia. Go ahead. Post the links here. That’s only 10 out of the several hundred thousand CCW holders in GA.You can’t post them – because there AREN’T even 10.”
Too much trouble for you? I thought so. It’s far easier to dream up an inane and insulting Plaxico Burress statement to “prove” your point. All you have managed to prove by that is that you are incapable of any rational thought, and that your mind is made up and you will allow no facts to confuse you. Too inconvenient,
Andy Taylor
October 19th, 2009
8:01 pm
Maybe you need to move tailgunner. We don’t even have to lock the doors where I live. Of course I understand the irrational fear of all the what if this and what if thats you paranoid chicken littles can dream up. Any puzzy that has to have a gun in his hand to come out from under his bed has serious manhood issues. Guys like you tailgunner are nothing more than delusional wannabe gunslingers that more than likely lose a foot if ever confronted with the fantasy encounters that drive your irrational cowardice and fear. What a punk you are. Congratulations. You are nothing more than a Barney Fife with the logic of Jethro Bodine.
Hal Moore
October 19th, 2009
8:07 pm
Just what is it you’re so damned scared of tailgunner? You sure do have a lot of skeerd in your genes.
Hal Moore
October 19th, 2009
8:12 pm
And you probably can’t document 10 cases of CCW holders in Georgia stopping or detering a crime with their gun either. Put down your beer, belch, fart, and start googling you cretin.
Wes
October 19th, 2009
8:24 pm
tailgunner do you have nothing better to do than blog for 2 solid days about your damn guns? Get a life. Get a girl or maybe a guy in your case….to each his own. But jeeeze dude. Stop being such an ignorant redneck.
Elizabeth
October 19th, 2009
8:57 pm
I just hope your bullets don’t hit an innocent bystander while you’re busy playing cop.
Tailgunner
October 19th, 2009
10:02 pm
…and so many of you go so blindly and blithely about your daily lives believing that the police will protect you (which according to the Supreme Court they have NO obligation to do).
I am not, by any stretch of your imagination, just itching to blow somebody away. I would hate to have to do it. But that does not mean I will not. That does not mean I am not prepared to protect my family, loved ones, friends, property, or myself. Don’t you people ever watch the news? Every single night there are shootings (by ILLEGAL gun carriers), stabbings, beatings, home invasions, car jackings, robberies, and more. And you ignore all of this and think it will *never* happen to you…….um…….WHY?
If you want to outlaw guns from the hands of decent, law abiding citizens such as myself because “that’s what the police are there for”, then I assume you have no smoke detectors or fire extinguishers in you home because “that’s what the fire department is there for”.
I am just thankful that all of you do not get to decide for me what I can or cannot do to protect myself. The Constitution agrees with me. The Supreme Court agrees with me. The state of Georgia agrees with me. The FBI agrees with me. The GBI agrees with me. The Gwinnett County judge agrees with me. But you arrogantly don’t agree with me?
Boys and girls, can we say “left wing lunatics”?
I sincerely hope all of you have your wills, personal papers, and personal effects extremely well in order. When YOU become a victim, your family will appreciate it….
Nick
October 20th, 2009
12:09 am
Seriously, why did this article ignore McBerry? He actually has a sample bill that would repeal almost all restrictions on gun ownership for law-abiding citizens; you can see it on his website. Why wasn’t that mentioned?
Eric
October 20th, 2009
12:51 pm
Elizabeth, Wes, Hal & Andy, why do you feel the need to categorize anyone who decides to take responsibility for their own safety as ignorant, paranoid, drunken rednecks who will undoubtedly go on an irresponsible shooting spree? There are well over a million CCW permit holders in the U.S. and, according to the Brady Campaign (which is for stricter gun restriction) over the past dozen years there have been less than 15 cases per year in the country involving permit holders getting in trouble with the law and less than half of those cases involve the use of a gun in violence or accidental discharge. Can you name anything else with that kind of safety record? If I put on my seatbelt, do you assume I’m too scared to drive or that I’ll automatically drive recklessly because I feel protected? I understand your concerns because I avoided owning a gun until I was almost 40 due to the same concerns. However, when I did real research, not a name calling match on a blog site, I learned that most of my fears were unfounded. There are definitely people that I’d rather not see armed, but there are people I’d rather not see behind the wheel or having kids or in a voting booth. The fact is that you have the right to choose whether you want to rely on the police to keep you safe or to take additional measures. It’s your choice and I wouldn’t want to tell you what’s right for you. What’s right for me is to do everything I can to keep myself and my family and those around me safe. I can’t say all cops uniformly agree, but I have yet to find one that is against citizens carrying. They acknowledge the fact that they can’t be everywhere at all times. I challenge you all, on both sides of the argument, to cut down on the rhetoric and do some real, honest research. If you don’t, you’ve got to wonder how much conviction you have in your opinion.
pwg
October 20th, 2009
1:47 pm
I am White an proud also a coward,but I wish some of you would come to my house an break in I would make your dreams come true,also save the taxpayers some money.
Eric
October 20th, 2009
2:04 pm
pwg – I’m a concealed weapons permit holder and I carry everywhere I can. I try to make rational arguments for the rights of citizens to carry. That being said, comments like you just posted don’t help the cause. I understand your frustration, but making remarks that make gun owners sound like their chomping at the bit to blow someone away gives anti-gun people more reason to try to limit 2nd ammendment rights as much as possible. In my opinion, the case for individuals having the right to own and carry guns is strong enough that we can stand on reason and facts. When I argue with someone and they start making threats or calling names, that usually indicates they’re out of substantive ideas and are lashing out out of frustration. As a gun owner, please don’t fall into that trap. We have the facts and reason on our side, let them throw insults and bombs instead of making a case. We don’t need to do that.
Georgia Republican Buys 4-Year-Old a Gun | Strollerderby
October 26th, 2009
1:01 pm
[...] is a member of Georgiacarry, an advocacy group for the right to bear arms. And according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution, he’s stated he “believes so strongly in gun ownership,” that he bought his [...]
Straight to the point
October 27th, 2009
12:19 am
TAILGUNNER….wow, i c the fight here continues days after huh???? LOL
AAAND quite a few murders have taken place since my last post; innocent people, bystanders, home owners, wow….and these NUTZ here actually think if u focus on removing and hindering a carry permit person’s ability to carry that criminals will stop using guns illegally, LMMFAO!!! WOW what delusions they have.
Politician Buys Pistol For 4-Year Old Daughter-- Brady Campaign Blog
October 27th, 2009
5:41 pm
[...] No, apparently Georgia State Rep. Sean Jerguson — a real live elected official soaked in the gun lobby’s Kool-Aid — actually boasted of purchasing a pink .22-caliber pistol for his 4-year old daughter, according to reports. [...]