No more on running through Scripture on football Friday
Catoosa County in far northwest Georgia has become the site of the latest skirmish in the war over religion in public schools.
For six years or so, cheerleaders at Lakeview-Fort Oglethorpe High School have painted elaborate paper banners, adorned with Bible verses, through which football players have dashed at the outset of games.
For instance, recently, from Philippians 3:14: “I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me in Christ Jesus.”
After receiving a complaint, the Catoosa County school system cracked down. Reported the Chattanooga Times Free Press:
A school system statement released Monday said the message constitutes “a violation of the First Amendment of the Constitution for signs with Bible verses to be displayed on the football field.”
Those offended included the Rev. Brad Scott, a Republican activist who was LFO High’s class president in 2004 — and who sent us the above photo, plus some others. A Facebook page has been established.
Several hundred protestors gathered last night. According, again, to the Times Free Press:
State Rep. Jay Neal, R-LaFayette, challenged the crowd to bring religious signs Friday night to put up in an area designated for the displays outside the school’s football stadium. And Rep. Neal urged people to display them in the stands as citizens and supporters of the LFO cheerleaders and football team.
“Our Founding Fathers had one thing in mind when they founded this country, and it was a Christian nation built upon the principles of Jesus Christ,” Mr. Neal said.
School Superintendent Denia Reese has defended herself:
“Personally, I appreciate this expression of their Christian values. However, as superintendent I have the responsibility of protecting the school district from legal action by groups who do not support their beliefs,” Mrs. Reese stated Monday in a release.
The incident has attracted the attention of Bill Nigut, southeast regional director of the Anti-Defamation League, who sent Reese a letter of support.
Read the entire message here, but this is the gist:
The Anti-Defamation League commends you for making the hard decision to uphold the First Amendment to the Constitution by banning the traditional practice of cheerleaders displaying religious messages on signs at the football games. We recognize that this has created controversy in your community; however, we believe you have done the right thing….
ADL believes deeply in the importance of safeguarding freedom of religion in our increasingly pluralistic nation. This position is not one of hostility toward religion; rather, it reflects a profound respect for religious freedom and recognition of the extraordinary diversity of religions represented by the students and staff in our public schools.
It is essential that high school sports programs keep in mind that the children entrusted to your care likely have widely divergent religious points of view. Your decision shows respect for this diversity.
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86 comments Add your comment
2Old4This
September 30th, 2009
7:08 pm
But school kids can be taught songs praising the deity-in-chief.
Bubba
September 30th, 2009
7:15 pm
When I was a public school student in the late fifties and early sixities in a county adjacent to Walker County, we learned to read in a combination of scripture and Dick & Jane. Along with learning the 3 Rs and civics, we memorized Psalms, Proverbs, a few passages from Collosians and Ephesians, and a lot of inspirational poetry. None of my classmates who grew up that way ever went to prison, became drug addicts, or had a baby out of wedlock. We were nearing the end of elementary school when in 1962 the U. S. Supreme Court ruled against innocuous non-sectarian prayer and Bible study in public schools. Since that time, the rates of out of wedlock births and drug abuse have exploded. Back in 1947 in the Everson case, the Supreme Court erroneously grafted into constitutional law the phrase about a “high wall of separation” between church and state, lifted from a private letter by Thomas Jefferson, perverting the First Amendment into something more similar to the Soviet Union’s constitution than any original intent of the framers of the U. S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. Now the ACLU and ADL bully and intimidate local governments into capitulating out of fear that if they stand up to them, they will be hit with inflated attorney fee awards in favor of those who seek to exclude God from the public arena. I’m pretty liberal on a lot of issues, but this is pathetic.
Tracy
September 30th, 2009
7:49 pm
God did not write the bible men did! With so many different religions who’s to say Christianity is the right one?? who’s to say any are right men wrote them NOT GOD. If someone said God spoke to them today they would get put in a mental institution. They can protest all they want. There is something called separation of church and state and it is a public school. I’m sure everyone there is not Christian. Brainwashing starts at a early age. These girls are obviously brainwashed and need to open their science books. They need to open a lot of books and leave the bible closed. After being told those verses over and over 16-18 years who wouldn’t believe them. That is unless they were smart Oh wait their cheerleaders my bad….
alice
September 30th, 2009
9:11 pm
Is this really a good use of biblical phrases? Frightening, if you ask me.
Dash Riptide
September 30th, 2009
10:04 pm
Ironically, the effort is demeaning to the dignity of the religious views expressed therein. It’s like reducing “the greatest story ever told” to the level of a Jesus bobblehead doll. Get a clue, thumpers. If your beliefs can’t be expressed with dignity, then are they really worthy of expression at all?
Will Jones - Atlanta Jeffersonian Exegesis
September 30th, 2009
10:27 pm
Pastor Neal took an oath to support the U.S. Constitution, and that of The State of Georgia when he became a State Representative. His betrayal of The Constitution is a profound pander to ignorance and faction.
Does he not understand Our Creed’s Mottoes: “Novus Ordo Seclorem” – The New Secular Order; “E Pluribus Unum” – Of Many, One; and, above all, “Annuit Coeptis” – Divine Providence Blesses Our Endeavors?
Secular, not sectarian; Many – creeds, nations, and individuals, become One New Nation, obedient to only One Creed; and, Divine Providence blesses our endeavors, not Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, Krishna, or any other named manifestation of myth, faction, cult, or sect.
He would do well to read The Founders’ inspired wisdom on the subject, for his view is perverse, and a lie, whether witting or unwitting.
America’s Author, Founder and Prophet, Thomas Jefferson wrote an extensive letter thoroughly debunking the “pious fraud” that Our Nation was founded as a “Christian nation.” http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/ot2www-singleauthor?specfile=/web/data/jefferson/texts/jefall.o2w&act=text&offset=7097443&textreg=1&query=what+a+conspiracy
Public, holy office should be reserved in Georgia at least, only to real Americans. Pastor Neal needs much improvement in that regard.
Jeffersonian Exegesis http://theamericanfundament.blogspot.com
gcastanza83
September 30th, 2009
10:35 pm
LFO Cheerleader Rally GA Rep Jay Neal VIDEO -
http://www.chattanoogahasnews.com/videos/id_221/
RGB
September 30th, 2009
11:38 pm
Tracy and the “separation of church and state/who’s to say what religion is right” crowd should brush up on their U.S. history. Here are a few vignettes.
Of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence, 29 had seminary degrees. The DoI is the foundation of our government. It is our foundational document. American Exceptionalism exists because our Founders were able to establish this country on a foundation that includes strong Biblical principles. That sounds Christian to me.
Sept. 6, 1774 was the very first meeting of the Congress of the U.S. The historical records show they opened with prayer and the prayer session lasted 3 hours long. John Adams wrote wife Abigail about the session and told her that Congress had studied 4 chapters of the Bible that morning. He said that one particular chapter so inspired Congress that they gained the faith that perhaps we could defeat the British in the coming conflicts. No separation of church and state here.
“In the name of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity” [Tracy, that refers to God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit] appeared at the beginning of the peace treaty between the new America and Britain. This was signed by four people including the British ambassador, Ben Franklin, John Adams, and John Jay. That sounds pretty Christian to me.
1781 – Battle of Yorktown. British surrender. Colonists were no longer under the King’s law. This removed the prohibition against printing the Bible in English. With this prohibition removed, Congress (yes Congress) moved to print the first English language Bible—just one month after the Battle of Yorktown. 20,000 copies were printed. An original is in the Library of Congress. That too sounds Christian to me.
The record shows that Congress characterized this first English language Bible as “A neat edition of the Holy Scripture for use in our schools.” The Bible had an endorsement that read “Resolved that the United States in Congress assembled…recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States…” Tracy, were you aware that Congress printed and recommended the very first English language Bible in the U.S. to its citizens?
1st Public Law School in America: “The Old Deluder Satan Act”. For the next 320 years the Bible was used regularly in public schools.
June 17, 1963 the Supreme Court removed the use of the Bible in schools in a double decision.
Tracy, maybe you should sell your science books, purchase a Bible and a good American history book, and begin reading. I don’t think it’s the part that you don’t understand that troubles you.
Will Jones - Atlanta Jeffersonian Exegesis
October 1st, 2009
1:00 am
RGB – Bother reading The Founder’s above linked letter? Care to “review” Mr. Jefferson’s writing? Do you think the Framers of the Declaration and the Constitution were unable to spell some word other than the Creator, or Nature’s God? Do you believe there are multiple dieties to which can be applied the name “Creator?” While protecting your understandable anonymity, care to make public your denomination, communion, or faith in an attempt to substantiate your anti-American perspective? Willing to deny you’re Roman Catholic?
Friday night lights go dim on Bible verses « TheScroogeReport
October 1st, 2009
2:19 am
[...] After receiving a complaint, the Catoosa County school system cracked down… full story [...]
azgrandma
October 1st, 2009
2:36 am
I’m a Roman Catholic…I can’t believe any practicing Catholic would ever object to a public display of God’s word in any setting. There are many who profess to be Christian and do not walk the walk…very sad.
If it were my kids in school and they wanted to make signs with Bible verses on them, I’d tell them to keep doing it…it’s their 1st Ammendment right!
The seperation of church and state mean, that GOVERNMENT IS NOT GOD! We have a constitution and a bill of rights, as far as I know it still stands! If a whold city in Michigan can convert to Muslim, then that High School has the right to express their faith! IN THE OPEN! NOT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS! This country was founded on the foundation of Judeo Christian principles and beliefs!
Get up and FIGHT!
Chris
October 1st, 2009
3:47 am
I’m sorry, but having a bunch of jocks destroy a banner of biblical verses before every game seems a pretty darned sacrilegious to me. This is the problem with using state authority to express or promote religious belief even in things as seemingly trivial. Equally religious people can view the same event in very different means, which means it’s probably best to limit the use of state functions to make religious expressions.
Chris
October 1st, 2009
3:49 am
Wow. The grammar is my last post was quite awful. I should refrain from posting so late from now on.
JohnPaul
October 1st, 2009
5:31 am
I am conserved with both RGB and Will’s posts. First, RGB, whether or not a large percentage of our forefather held seminary degrees really doesn’t matter. Yes, the United States was primarily Christian sects when it was founded. But the point is they didn’t all have seminary degrees in the same Christian denomination. Our forefathers collaborated on a document which is intended to free our government from one single governmentally endorsed denomination (like the Church of England). Like it or not, this desire has now protected all religions.
Attacking Tracy in the way you did simply because she doesn’t believe in sola scripta is rather counterproductive. “Put away your science books”? Really? What you both have is a different interpretation of the constitution. Which is healthy… it fosters debate… taking cheap shots betrays your stance and essentially ends the exchange of ideas.
As for Will, I am deeply confused by your “Will you admit you are a Roman Catholic?” Being that I am a Roman Catholic (which is a Christian denomination), and from Georgia, I have to say that RGB’s comments don’t reflect Roman Catholic ideals at all… actually Tracy is closer to that mark because Catholics don’t believe in sola scripta… Catholics believe the bible was written by men as a teaching tool. I’m just confused. And again your post comes across very counterproductive and combative.
While we are attacking individual religious beliefs and pretending that we know history or doctrines better than the next person, we are all missing the point:
Why does God endorse Lakeview-Fort Oglethorpe High School football?
Does he endorse the opposing teams?
Does he follow College or the NFL? (I really hope he’s a Falcon’s fan!).
Has God chosen Lakeview-Fort Oglethorpe as the “correct” and “right” football team?
If I don’t root for Lakeview, will I go to hell?
It must be very intimidating for opposing teams, knowing God wants Lakeview to win.
And why are the cheerleaders showing so much skin?
Let’s take the church and state argument off the table and ask: isn’t it absurd to take scripture and put it into the context of a high school football game? As if God cares who wins. I might pray before a big job interview to center myself and ask for confidence… but I’m not going to ask God to make the other people interviewing fail so I may triumph… that pretty vain. And if I am offered the job… I would never think “Thank you God for being on my side today” as if God wasn’t on the side of the others… or isn’t on my side always. I would simple thank God for the talents he’s given me and for giving me the ability to recognize and utilize those talents. Religion is a very personal thing.
This is why the Christian Music Awards are absurd. Essentially, it is a competition to see who uses their God given talents to worship God the best. Does God care? Does anyone else see this absurdity? Or is it just me?
As a Christian, I think the cheerleaders were very misguided in using the scripture passages on their football banners. Just because something is in the bible doesn’t mean you can use it in any context you want. I equally think it is sad that the school board had to step in and regulate the situation. The Lakewood community should have been able to handle this in-house themselves… six years ago.
Anyway, if I wanted my boys to go to school and learn about a specific denomination I would send them to private school. As for their faith? I will teach that at home leading by example.
-JP
JohnPaul
October 1st, 2009
5:39 am
Previous post: “I am conserved”? Obviously I meant “concerned”, erg.
Chris, I’m with you buddy… I better drink more coffee before stepping on my soap box.
Take care everybody!
-JP
John
October 1st, 2009
9:14 am
That school system also is the only one that I know of in Georgia that has continued prayers over the public address system in recent years in defiance of the Supreme Court. It has made for a really uncomfortable situation when visiting teams that have a more diverse student body vist the high schools in Catoosa County. How do they expect their students to obey rules and the law when the school system doesn’t do it either?
MDB15
October 1st, 2009
9:21 am
Well, actually “seperation of church and state” is a myth. No where in our constitution does it say “seperation of church and state”. It states the government shall not make a law enforcing a certain religion on it’s citizens. The only place “seperation of church and state” is found is in a memo from Thomas Jefferson to a meeting of baptist pastors that were worried about the government intervening, not in our constitution. I don’t believe that these players and cheerleaders are saying God’s only on their side and not on everybody’s. Being of no religion is a religion unto itself, basically to me sounds like the ACLU and therefore the Government by allowing these laws is endorsing a particular religion. Look at the trial of the AD and Principal in Pace Florida, for praying over a meal that no athletes were present at just people that had donated to the Athletic department.
Keith Helms
October 1st, 2009
9:38 am
And yet the anti-Christians demand that their religion be taught in all schools. That is the worship of Satan and includes the socialists(welfare), Marxism, and communism.
bandprize
October 1st, 2009
9:43 am
The mere fact that these kids even have Christ on their mind, and are not out killing, robbing, fighting or beating each other to death like what happened in Chicago, should be an inspiration to us all. I believe in my heart what so many preachers have been saying lately the enemy is coming to destroy our families and the one thing we hold dear “OUR KIDS”. He is out to seek and destroy, why do you think there has been so much violence among our youth, because we let the enemy dictate to us what we can and cannot allow them to do. These people that stand up and cry everytime they see one of our youth spreading a word from God are just doing the devils work. I bet none of them said anything about the mob that beat to death that young honor student from Chicago or the person that killed the laundromat owner in Atlanta, “GET IT”. And remember it all starts in the mind, once the enemy tells them they are not allowed to keep Christ on their minds and in their hearts they are lost from then on. That’s why I said right from the start, we should be proud of the fact that these young people have our lord and saviour on their mind. These are the kind of kids that brings tears to my eyes not the ones doing the violence, I mean I cry for them too but these kids really touch my heart. So if you all want to let these people keep telling us that our kids don’t have the right to call on the name of Jesus in any situation, even at a football game. It is not wrong to ask Christ to help you out in any situation, you see if they go to him with little things like winning games it will make them go to him for the “BIGGER” things in life too. That keeps them in in grace and mercy.
LFO Supporter
October 1st, 2009
9:48 am
Have any of these “bloggers” heard of freedom of religion. If they paid any attention to their teachers in school, then they would know that our nation was founded on the basis of religious freedom. Why shouldn’t these girls be allowed to express themselves? I guarantee that if a student walked in with a shirt that read “Christianity is a lie”, no one would say a word. I also feel that judging these girls because they are cheerleaders shows the maturity level of these “bloggers” (Tracy, this is directed towards you).
Fight back LFO cheerleaders! You are inspiring!
pd
October 1st, 2009
10:04 am
As a Christian, I don’t like the use of biblical verses used in this manner.
To take these verses with no context and apply them to a football game seems to be lessening their value.
We have become such a bumper sticker culture. “Here is my belief, now let me drive away before any discussing can take place”
pd
October 1st, 2009
10:04 am
By the way, the people who support the use of these verses probably would be offended if verses from the Koran were used instead.
RGB
October 1st, 2009
10:17 am
JohnPaul uses the facile technique of asserting that a person presenting historical facts is “attacking” someone, thereby hoping to put that person on the defensive. Tracy’s calling believers “brainwashed” constitutes religious persecution. You termed believers “misguided.”
It is shocking that you believe “RGB’s comments don’t reflect Roman Catholic ideals at all… actually Tracy is closer to that mark because Catholics don’t believe in sola scripta.” Recall that Tracy wrote “With so many different religions who’s to say Christianity is the right one??” As a Roman Catholic, perhaps you should consult your local church authorities on whether they believe Christianity is the “right religion.” I will await your reply.
Regarding “sola scripta” (or perhaps sola scriptura), I found this on the topic which may help you:
“The primary Catholic argument against sola scriptura is that the Bible does not explicitly teach sola scriptura. Catholics argue that the Bible nowhere states that it is the only authoritative guide for faith and practice. While this is true, they fail to recognize a crucially important issue. We know that the Bible is the Word of God. The Bible declares itself to be God-breathed, inerrant, and authoritative. We also know that God does not change His mind or contradict Himself. So, while the Bible itself may not explicitly argue for sola scriptura, it most definitely does not allow for traditions that contradict its message.” As I stated earlier, it’s not the part people don’t understand that bothers them.
As for “…if I wanted my boys to go to school and learn about a specific denomination…”, that’d be a good thing. But please don’t tell them that being a Roman Catholic doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with Christianity because “who’s to say Christianity is the right one??”
pd
October 1st, 2009
10:33 am
I think that the ten commandments should be displayed on the court house wall, next to a statue of Buddha, a picture of Vishnu, verses from the Koran, a line stating Jai Guru Dev, om, and behind the desk or the judge should be the biblical verse, “For if you don’t forgive men their tresspasses, your heavenly Father will not forgive you.”
Grit
October 1st, 2009
10:36 am
It is time to get the FED out of Georgia’s States Rights. Check out Ray Mcberry for Governor in 2010.
bandprize
October 1st, 2009
10:51 am
pd, I don’t mean to call you out, but I don’t see any of these young people telling anyone to follow their religion. They are not out preaching the gospel and saying follow my God. They have simply been holding banners with inspirational words from what they believe to be the true gospel. You brought up the Koran, people invoke the Koran everyday, that may be what they believe in. These young people belong to a different God, let them serve him the way they want. I have never even heard of this school, but I give them their props. When we were growing up we though the kids that smoked, cut class and disrespected the teachers were cool, we should be telling them this is what it means to be cool. When I saw these young girls holding this sign, I turned my thoughts back over a year ago to the school you all may remember with over a dozen girls pregnant, and the people in the media was saying these girls had indeed planned this, which the girls denied of course. To all you people out their saying these young girls holding up signs with scripture on it is wrong, don’t you see the difference, we should commend them for the paths they are taking, instead of beating them down. Just the fact that they have positive thing on their minds should make all their parents proud. I don’t know not a one of them, but I am proud of them.
James
October 1st, 2009
10:55 am
I believe some people miss the point of the banners. The banners are to “inspire” their team and fans. Is this such a bad thing?
Are we going to keep a kid from pointing to the heavens after a touchdown?
We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. This is one of the aspects that really bothers me – just because something offends you, doesn’t mean I can display it proudly. You do NOT have the right to not be offended. It is that simple.
Now, if the school board wants to make the decision to not allow the banners, that is their decision. However, I do not believe that just because one person has complained in the 5 or 6 years they have been doing this that they should ban them immediately. I’m offended by stupidity , but I can not ban those types of people. I’m offended by people who can’t drive, but I can not ban those types of people.
I would also like to address the God v. Sceince mention that Tracy brought up. I would like to quote one of the greatest scientists in history : Albert Einstein. “Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.”
Everyone must begin to realize that Science and Religion are not opposites. They work together. No scientist can tell you where energy comes from. They cannot tell you every aspect of the atom. The penultimate particle is the “God Particle” (or Higgs Boson) because the scientists have yet to observe it. They know it exists, but yet they can’t see it.
So is Science and Religion so different?
Give me a break
October 1st, 2009
11:01 am
Why don’t they put this verse on a banner and run through it.
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
James
October 1st, 2009
11:11 am
I had a small typo – “Just because something offends you, doesn’t mean I can’t display it proudly”
gttim
October 1st, 2009
11:13 am
Why do Christians insist upon trying to cram their religion down the throats of others every possible way they can. The separation of church and state exists so that they cannot do this through the government (including schools) and yet also protects them from the same should another religion try the same thing.
If Catholics tried to come to your kid’s school to teach belief in the holy trinity, Protestants would go nuts. Remember, not all christian sects believe the same thing. The separation of church and state keeps somebody at school from teaching your kids something other than what you believe, even if you are both christian. It protects you and your faith. It has to be applied fairly, not just they way that you think is advantageous to your beliefs or religion.
NF Mom
October 1st, 2009
11:25 am
When I was in public grade school in the 70’s, our teacher made us stand and sing a hymn every morning, followed by the reading of a bible verse. The little Jewish boy had to take a chair and sit in the hall until we were done. Imagine what that kid must have felt, shamed and naughty for being a Jew!!! Public schools have an obligation to educate without giving preference to any one religion or discriminating against students because of their religion. Thank goodness this isn’t happening today!! Or is it?
Your religion is your personal right. Stop throwing it around like a corporate logo sponsering sporting events and coercing everyone else to buy it. I agree with Dash Riptide: show a little dignity!
Psych Doc
October 1st, 2009
11:51 am
I applaud these young ladies whose minds are on things of the Lord. God bless you all. Fight the good fight.
Uncle Jessie
October 1st, 2009
12:09 pm
Cheerleaders should follow example set by Empire
State Building in New York: Make up a banner honoring 60 years of Communism in China following Mao’s victory. He killed 60 million Chinese, what a great leader, Hitler only killed 6 million. But communists does not believe in religion either. Make them dollars Wall Street.
Obama Spends More Time Talking To Oprah Than Gen McChrystol
October 1st, 2009
12:21 pm
YIKES!!!! A scripture is dispalyed on a banner at a government school function. Why this must mean we’re in a theocracy. Quick hide the women and children.
The Bible says a lot of things
October 1st, 2009
12:22 pm
LFO Cheerleaders seem to pick and choose what their players run through just like those who adhere to American nativist Christianity do to justify their politics.
Here are some great verses to put on a banner to run through! American nativist Christians like to pretend the New Testement is all peace and love.
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
People really pick and choose in the Old Testement to support their agendas. People go crazy if the 10 commandments are taken down, but igore most of the really nasty stuff in the Old Testement.
Here are some verses that would make great banners.
Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you
(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
MDB15
October 1st, 2009
12:34 pm
Well, gttim the seperation of church and stated does not exsist, show me in the constitution as a histoy major do a of studing on this topic. “seperation of church and state” is a myth. Now I’m a very adment pentacostal but, do not believe the government should have state religion which was the entire point of freedom of religion. There’s not a established state religion. By the athiests forcing their religious belief of nothing which in itself is a religion aren’t you in an aspect stating a state religion? and to the bible says a lot of things, When christ came to this earth in the new testament he stated that the old law in essence the “old testament” should be done with such as an “eye for an eye” turned into turn the other check.
retiredds
October 1st, 2009
12:38 pm
With all the things on God’s plate, I think that football praying is at or near the bottom of what God pays attention to. Other issues like: feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, tending to the sick, etc. are definitely high on God’s list.
While many of the founders of this great country were Christians, one of their primary goal was the separation of church and state, as they knew first hand the abuses of theocracy. I would suggest that Rep. Neal from Lafayette might consider returning to school and re-read (and maybe learn) his American history. Thomas Jefferson, also one of the Founders, had a few things to say about organized religion that Mr. Neal should read up on. I will also add (from Wikipedia under “separation of church and state”) an interesting fact of GA history,
in 1789 the Georgia Constitution was amended as follows: “Article IV. Section 10. No person within this state shall, upon any pretense, be deprived of the inestimable privilege of worshipping God in any manner agreeable to his own conscience, nor be compelled to attend any place of worship contrary to his own faith and judgment; nor shall he ever be obliged to pay tithes, taxes, or any other rate, for the building or repairing any place of worship, or for the maintenance of any minister or ministry, contrary to what he believes to be right, or hath voluntarily engaged. To do. No one religious society shall ever be established in this state, in preference to another; nor shall any person be denied the enjoyment of any civil right merely on account of his religious principles.”
Gods warrior
October 1st, 2009
12:58 pm
it violates the first amendment? our country was founded upon the basis of Christianity. I cant belive a school would not let this occur anymore. it completely irritates me and all of us Christians should realize the huge warfare we are fighting. i am proud of those cheerleaders that did that. can i ask a question to the complainers. WHY DOES IT OFFEND YOU?!?!?!?!? If it does, you have serious things to worry about.
Gods warrior
October 1st, 2009
1:00 pm
And for you “the Bible says a lot of things” , you fail to READ THE REST!!!
Jeff
October 1st, 2009
1:02 pm
LFO Supporter:
Ever heard of Wayne Hamrick? He’s a former President of the Georgia Baptist Convention. Feel free to ask him about me and my family – my name is Jeff Sexton.
BTW: I OPPOSE what theLFO cheerleaders did on a variety of grounds. The following are in no particular order:
a) God’s greatest gift to humans was our Free Will. That gift led DIRECTLY to his only son’s DEATH. How DARE you make a mockery of that sacrifice by trying to force others to view things the way you do?
b) The cheerleaders were using a special privilege that no one else had to push their own religious views on people. My God isn’t so weak that He needs me to take cheap shots to promote Him.
c) My faith in Christ is an integral part of who I am. I don’t need signs or bumper stickers or 10×20 banners or anything outward to show it. I LIVE it. I don’t even have to wear a suit and tie on Sunday to show Him I love Him. I go truly “just as I am”, knowing that He sees me every second of every day.
d) Humans care about outward things. God cares about the hearts – and displays like this only harden the hearts of those that are dieing and going to a literal burning Hell without Him. Christ commanded me to reach out to them – not to push them away!
Gods warrior
October 1st, 2009
1:04 pm
Tracy, you look around and tell me that something other than a creator could make this world. Scripture is God-breathed and all you people will pay when judgment day comes. it really is sad that all of you have been brainwashed to believe something else. Ive personally seen the power of Christ been used over and over. All you nonbelievers will be proved wrong and i hope yall change your minds. this is sooo sad
Gods warrior
October 1st, 2009
1:11 pm
they arent trying to spread their faith as much as they are standing up for it. if they worshipped, T.I. then they could put h is lyrics there. Its there freedom of speech and press. you people are so ignorant
Gods warrior
October 1st, 2009
1:14 pm
no it isnt absurd to put verses on the banner
NF Mom
October 1st, 2009
1:21 pm
God’s Warrior, do yourself a favor. Go back and read what Jeff posted at 1:02. Jeff does not offend, and I would listen to and consider what he has to say. You ask, “Why does it offend you?” You should ask, “How am *I* offending you?” YES YOU are the kind that pushes others away from the light. Look in the mirror.
retiredds
October 1st, 2009
1:52 pm
God’s warrior: May I share with you the language of the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United Sates
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Would you please point out the word Christianity to me in the above?
SingerChik
October 1st, 2009
2:59 pm
retiredds: Blessings to you. Please note that the exert you are using to support this decision just as easily could be used to protect these young cheerleaders against such a decision. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”…I’m sorry but did I miss the part where these girls are attempting to establish a religion? They are displaying banners of their own religion, but where does the sign say “and thus are the beliefs of LFO High School”. They are holding the sign, not school officials or teachers (who could do so under the same 1st Amendment you quoted), and no one is being forced to agree or comply. Telling these girls they can’t hold the banner is a direct violation of “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” And I will bet that this school, along with every other school in the nation, stands every morning and recites the pledge of allegiance which still says “One nation under God”.
Mike
October 1st, 2009
3:02 pm
“Well, actually “seperation of church and state” is a myth. No where in our constitution does it say “seperation of church and state”.”
True, but neither does it say “Right to Privacy” or “Right to a Fair Trial”. Simply because the words are not there does not mean that the concept is not.
“By the athiests forcing their religious belief of nothing which in itself is a religion aren’t you in an aspect stating a state religion?”
We first have to agree on the definition of “religion.” Personally, I think that the belief in a deity is a requirement for something to be considered a religion. Since atheist do not believe in deities, atheism is not a religion.
Mike
October 1st, 2009
3:05 pm
“And I will bet that this school, along with every other school in the nation, stands every morning and recites the pledge of allegiance which still says “One nation under God”.”
It would be more appropriate to say “…which NOW says ‘One nation under God.’” That phrase was added in 1954.
pd
October 1st, 2009
3:19 pm
Whether or not this violates the US Constitution is not important in that it absolutely violates the GA Constitution.
Bobby Anthony
October 1st, 2009
3:48 pm
We should form a constitutional convention and change the US Constitution to allow religious demonstration at public gatherings in this country. This would take the process out of the hands of politicians and place it into the hands of the people.
david
October 1st, 2009
5:35 pm
THE BANNERS DO NOT VIOLATE THE 1ST AMMENDMENT, TAKING AWAY THE BANNERS VIOLATES THE 1ST AMMENDMENT. IT HAS BEEN TRIED IN COURT TIME AND TIME AGAIN, STUDENTS HAVE THE RIGHT TO EPRESS THEIR VIEWS. IT IS NOT A CASE OF RELIGION OR EVEN WHAT IS ON THE BANNER, IT IS A CASE OF STUDENT RIGHTS. I THINK IT IS A SHAME THAT ONE OR TWO PEOPLE CAN RUIN A TRADITION THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE ION THIS TOWN SUPPORT. WAIT UNTIL TOMOROW NIGHT AND YOU WILL SEE HOW THE TOWN FEELS.
david
October 1st, 2009
5:48 pm
TO RETIREDDS: NOTHING IS HIGHER OR LOWER IN WHAT GOD PAYS ATTENTION TO.GOD PAYS ATTENTION TO ALL THINGS,BIG OR SMALL ALL ASPECTS OF HIS CHILDRENS LIVES ARE IMPORTANT TO HIM!
Joel Rosenthal
October 1st, 2009
6:43 pm
David, if you understood what America was all about, you’d know that the Constitution is there to protect the minority. Majorities apply only in elections and votes in the legislatures. For the rest of you who insist that this is a Christian nation, you’re wrong. The entire purpose of this nation is to be for all its citizens. Yes, many of our ideals came from Christianity, which is great. Christianity has a lot of great ideals.
typee
October 1st, 2009
8:05 pm
Enter your comments here Hey Bubba, would you want to hear the Koran in those hallowed halls? I guess secularism does lead to drug abuse and unwanted pregnancies, but we will just have to follow along until separation of church and state is erased and you have complete tyranny of the majority church. This is what the founding fathers were about you big sweet dumbo. Heard of the Spanish Inquisition? The Protestant reformation? The Waldensians? I am sure the good people of Georgia feel like they are supporting Christianity, when they actually mock it or cause others to do so. They forget, or never have know their own history and how many people died to get rid of the “tyranny of Rome.” Yet you people in the South trivialize the great reformers by running football players through verse placards. You should be ashamed. The politicians who encourage this idiotic behavior are the epitome of cynicism.
allan registos
October 2nd, 2009
12:08 am
@Mike:”We first have to agree on the definition of “religion.” Personally, I think that the belief in a deity is a requirement for something to be considered a religion. Since atheist do not believe in deities, atheism is not a religion”
Sometimes, one belief system(Atheism) can be called religion if it competes with another, especially by attacking another religion or try to prohibit exercising other religion forcibly. Budhism on the other hand do not believe in a supreme being but still it was called a religion, but more peaceful than that of Atheism. Atheism becomes a religion when it tries to promote itself in the competition of values/ideas/philosophy along with Christianity.
JohnPaul
October 2nd, 2009
7:19 am
RGB:
Sorry about the afterthought post, but something else about your response was bothering me that I forgot to touch on.
“JohnPaul uses the facile technique of asserting that a person presenting historical facts is “attacking” someone, thereby hoping to put that person on the defensive.”
This is again a complete misinterpretation of my words and intention. In fact I have no objection to the points of history you chose to base your argument on. So, in the hopes of not being misinterpreted I will be very clear; you said the following:
“Tracy, maybe you should sell your science books, purchase a Bible and a good American history book, and begin reading. I don’t think it’s the part that you don’t understand that troubles you.”
These sentences came across condescending, combative and downright snotty. And the point of my first post was the following: I thought you were doing a fine job presenting your argument until you sunk to this level… a level on par to name calling.
I went back and read Tracy’s post. I think she was doing a good job presenting her side as well, (but ultimately sunk to a similar level with her Cheerleader one liner)… but the difference between your line and Tracy’s is this: I am pretty sure Tracy meant it for levities sake. I think you made a rash generalization about Tracy and then tried to push her around. Just like Will’s equally combative comment to you:
“While protecting your understandable anonymity, care to make public your denomination, communion, or faith in an attempt to substantiate your anti-American perspective? Willing to deny you’re Roman Catholic?”
Sorry, but I found Will’s comments very odd.
Finally, your misinterpretation of Tracy’s “brainwashing” comment is on par with you misinterpretation of my “misguided” comment. They were taken completely out of context and used against us improperly. In no way were those words used in our posts to describe the entire Christian body… or to generalize “believers” as such. Perhaps Tracy should have used a word with less negative association… like “indoctrinate”.
Anyway, since there are so many misinterpretations going on in our simple little online microcosm it stands to reason that these same misinterpretations would exist in the much more complex reality of religion and the Bible… exponentially. So again… the argument is probably moot.
Take care everyone,
-JP
JohnPaul
October 2nd, 2009
7:45 am
RBG:
Hmm… earlier this morning I posted something for you about our other point of contention (I am overseas, so I’m 6 hours ahead of you)… but alas, if didn’t post… so I want to report (you seemed very interested in hearing my response). So, will try my best to recreate:
In terms of thinking Tracy sounded more Catholic it was in regards to her opinion on the Bible, not whether one religion is “right or not”… I’m not really an all or nothing kind of guy… so… yeah, I stand by what I said.
Second, I don’t agree with you assessment that Catholicism states “Christianity is the right way.” I’d take it one step further: “Catholicism states that Catholicism is the right Christian denomination.” This is the same sentiment most Christian denominations have. Christian denominations have a very “I’m right, you’re wrong” history. I personally don’t agree with that… I don’t agree with everything the Catholic Church “mandates” or teaches… I merely said I was Catholic… not a good one.
To illustrate my issue with the whole “I’m right, you’re wrong” mentality I will address your sola scriptura argument. This isn’t a very fair argument. You are using a Protestant teaching to argue against a Catholic belief. And you are trying to argue it by using the Bible:
“Catholics argue that the Bible nowhere states that it is the only authoritative guide for faith and practice.”
This is a retaliatory argument for when people say, “Hey Catholic… why do you do that? It’s not in the Bible”. The true point dates back in history, which I know you like. The Catholic Church claims its start from the apostles, when it was a street religion… Catholics even consider Peter the first Pope. Essentially, based on the history of the Church, Catholicism existed 100+ years before the Bible was published. This is why Catholics don’t believe in sola scriptura… and Catholics do not argue the fact that the Bible is the word of God… but the apostles were also Instruments of God… and not everything they did and taught made the final draft. That is the rough and dirty history.
Now, please notice that I am merely presenting the basis of the belief… not whether it is right or wrong. Everyone entitled to their own opinions. I merely want to give perspective. I think it is counterproductive to argue right and wrong is you have no perspective, or merely the perspective of an opposing viewpoint, from where other people are coming from.
-JP
dr. luba
October 2nd, 2009
8:48 am
The deity does not get involved in sports competitions:
http://www.youtube.com/user/misterdeity#play/uploads/34/XF–G1zmyTw
Will Jones - Atlanta Jeffersonian Exegesis
October 2nd, 2009
9:50 am
Thomas Jefferson is a prophet of G-d. Any who dispute this fact is 1 )ignorant of the anointed Author of the Declaration of American Independence’s body of writings and role in History; 2) denies the existence of G-d; 3) is a member of the Roman Anti-Christ; and/or, 4) is a traitor against America, the prophesied Promised Land.
JohnPaul
October 2nd, 2009
3:09 pm
Will,
You are a very confusing man. You seem like such a hateful man. I’m not sure what to make of you. And this isn’t the first message board on AJC that I have seen you break down to name calling as a form of debate.
Anyway, let me just say, “You’re welcome”… it gives me great pride to serve our country in order to defend the civil liberties you enjoy. The liberties that allow you to voice your disrespectful generalizations of me, my religion and a much greater percentage of the American population than you realize.
I am sorry that I don’t meet you standards and that my religion threatens you in some way. But the same civil liberties that give you the right to call my religion the “Roman Anti-Christ” is the same civil liberty that give me the right to keep your propaganda out of our public school system.
Oh, and here is a quote for you:
Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820
So… I guess Thomas Jefferson himself probably doesn’t make the cut for you either.
Take care,
-JP
Will Jones - Atlanta Jeffersonian Exegesis
October 2nd, 2009
3:34 pm
“AND” others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being.
Whether you were molested or not, JP, there is only One Creator G-d of the universe. Thomas Jefferson is his prophet. No true American rejects his prophetic wisdom.
It was he who identified your Babylonian priesthood, “that city which sits on seven hills,” as “the real Anti-Christ.”
Recognize your opposition to America’s Whig Founders places you, a Romanist, squarely in the treasonous sectarian faction known as Rome’s “Fifth Column,” whose principals have assassinated our leaders, financed Nazism and the Holocaust, sent us to Vietnam and other false wars and committed 9/11.
There is only one G-d. The Truth is known. Pick your “team.”
Death for Treason
Will Jones - Atlanta Jeffersonian Exegesis
October 2nd, 2009
3:36 pm
errata: “his prophet” should be “It’s prophet.”
Will Jones - Atlanta Jeffersonian Exegesis
October 2nd, 2009
4:01 pm
P.S. Since you may be named “John Paul,” you owe it to yourself to read “In God’s Name,” by David Yallop. JP1 was murdered in the Vatican for trying to rid the Vatican Bank of the Mafia. Nice “team” you have, even beyond the molestation, and all.
Sarah Walker
October 2nd, 2009
5:47 pm
I am SO proud of this school! I wish every school would have a passion to encourage their students and players with the Word of God! I know that I would love to walk onto the football field at my school and see my friends raise a banner that lifts up God as well as our football team. Props to the students, faculty, and community who aren’t afraid to support their God and build up their team. God will Bless you all GREATLY!!!!!!!!
frankie
October 2nd, 2009
6:45 pm
Enter your comments http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlmIAoyBhHg
frankie
October 2nd, 2009
6:48 pm
my brother died and he was in footbal it was all over the news wawawawawawawwaawwa
JohnPaul
October 3rd, 2009
4:43 am
Will,
No need to read the book, I saw Godfather III, but thanks for the recommendation… You should probably know, being Catholic is lot like being Jewish these days… its how I was raised… and it’s the perspective I come to the table with. I actually don’t practice any more… and the molestation issue is one of those reasons. The concept of having to be “right” is one of the others. So… you really shouldn’t be casting stones about people when you don’t know them. The church also sold indulgences… sponsored the Crusades… started the inquisition… you aren’t giving me any new information. I claim being catholic has heritage… not practice… but it does bother me when people attack it just to be hateful… Christ wasn’t hateful.
But claiming Thomas Jefferson as a prophet is equally as strange. And a very interesting “team” for anyone to be on. Yes, he believed in God, but he didn’t believe in organized religion. He also impregnated his underage slave. I’m pretty sure that would have made him a sex offender in this day and age. But… I do hope you begin to emulate Thomas Jefferson more fully because I do think Jefferson was a great man… he was a great philosopher, scientist, diplomat, and, of course… he was not a hate monger. Based on what I read of Jefferson’s life… he just wanted people to understand and respect each other.
-JP
Will Jones - Atlanta Jeffersonian Exegesis
October 3rd, 2009
6:10 am
JP – My Nation is America, founded and authored by Thomas Jefferson, with the help of Black, White, Jew, and Gentile Whigs. The Oath I took on my life is to the Constitution and I believe the three Mottoes of Our Creed. I know there is only One G-d, the Creator of the universe, and “Annuit Coeptis” is referring only to It.
So too do I know a pattern of depredation and subversion of Our Republic, from assassination and false war, illegal immigration and debasement of the currency, to ‘Bush v. Gore’ and 9/11 can be unequivocally attached to the one earthly power and combine Mr. Jefferson identified as “the real Anti-Christ,”"an engine for enslaving mankind.”
I wouldn’t say it if I didn’t know, absolutely, of the truth – for all Americans.
Our Nation must be righteous, pursuing Justice and sweeping evil from the land.
Somebody tries to break into one’s righteous house in America, to steal or to injure: there is only one proper and immediate fate meted out by the householder’s vigilance. The sovereign People’s pursuing Righteousness is no different.
Our Courts must be the “Holy of Holies” in our civil religion of Americanism.
Where treason and injustice is found, Justice must be done on behalf of the People.
If not, a cancer is upon us.
Bush and Cheney committed 9/11 as “Reichstag Fire Redux.” “The New Pearl Harbor” is a free download on Google Scholar.
This must not be allowed to stand.
With a team from the Roman Catholic CIA, Bush’s father and Cheney’s mentor, Nixon, assassinated John Kennedy six weeks after his NSAM263 began our military withdrawal from the papal fiefdom of Vietnam. 58,000 of us died, and millions of innocent Asians.
This must not be allowed to stand.
Bush’s grandfather was Rome’s money conduit from their collection plates in America to the author of “I Paid Hitler,” papal baron Fritz “The Rockefeller of Germany” Thyssen, on behalf of Vatican-banker Rockefeller, the Roman Catholic Church, and Roman Europe’s “Black Aristocracy,” whose sons were the 30,000 Nazi SS secreted to Latin America in Operation Ratline by the Vatican and the CIA.
This must not be allowed to stand.
My view is not a product of bigotry, per se.
My sainted mother, buried at Arlington National Military Cemetery, was born and raised Roman Catholic, as was her great uncle whose action on the “Bonhomme Richard” was credited by John Paul Jones with the victory over the “Serapis,” which, historians claim, if lost may have ended America’s attempted revolt against the English crown. The fact that that uncle never married or fathered children, and was adept at organized violence, suggests the Babylonian priesthood’s pedophilia touched his life as well. The L-rd works in mysterious ways.
And one of those “ways” is the opportunity all Americans have to come back together as the sovereign People and to expropriate and extirpate Rome’s “Fifth Column” in Our Nation.
Don’t read Mr. Jefferson’s biographers, read his writings, particularly the “Post Road Correspondence” with John Adams. G-d is knowable by It’s prophets’ transitivity. Unshackle yourself, overcome the institutionalized perversion, superstition, and evil attached to Rome. Only G-d is perfect. It is your constitutionally guaranteed right to know It.
Truth must be known and Justice must be done to prove out.
There is but One G-d, Creator of the Universe.
In righteous America, the cheerleaders’ banner is an offense to G-d.
Those who disagree would do well to pray on it. The curse comes not without cause.
Death for Treason
Annuit Coeptis
JohnPaul
October 3rd, 2009
12:04 pm
Bahahahahaha. You know?… you had me going for a while. There is no use is debating with someone who “knows” they are right.
Will, by all means… good luck with all that… peace, have a good life.
Will Jones - Atlanta Jeffersonian Exegesis
October 3rd, 2009
5:03 pm
No use debating a true and faithful American about the virtue or legitimacy of America’s covenant with G-d.
Rome – “the real Anti-Christ” – and America – the prophesied New Israel – don’t mix. One, or the other.
So you’re for “the other?” Thanks for at least having the integrity to fly your true colors.
Will Jones - Atlanta Jeffersonian Exegesis
October 3rd, 2009
5:27 pm
P.S. PJ – If reasoned debate had been effective in convincing America and Americans to switch to Roman Catholicism and to support for Rome’s interests in the world, the Anti-Christ wouldn’t have have to resort to assassination of Lincoln, Kennedy, King, et al.
Tom
October 6th, 2009
8:05 am
In response to Tracy, 3 comments below regarding the authorship of the Bible:
Tracy, if the Bible was written by men how do you explain the 1000s of prophecies written often hundreds of years before an event happened? If only mere men wrote it, then they were themselves God because it is statistically impossible to write that many events prior to their occurrence, without a single error. I would encourage you to do some simple research about how special and unique the Bible really is. It is unlike any other religious document. No other religious document makes predictions of future events with 100 percent accuracy the way the Bible does. It may have been penned by an man, but the ideas came from someone who knew the future.
Tom
October 6th, 2009
8:06 am
Enter your comments here
Tom
October 6th, 2009
8:07 am
I didn’t realize my comment would be posted on the bottom.
Tracy is the 3rd comment from the top.
Brett
October 6th, 2009
10:50 am
here Where is the freedom of speech protection for the cheer squad?.. It got lost in the rush to stamp out references to God. What have we come to as a nation? The Founding Fathers wouldn’t recognize the country!!!
Response to Bubba
October 7th, 2009
12:28 am
Dear Bubba (first poster), although you remember the “Good ‘ol Days” as times of perpetual prosperity, the United States was indeed full of conflict (i.e., Vietnam war), rampant drug use by the youth (remember Woodstock?), racial discrimination, and no different from the problems we experience today. The only difference between then and now was that babies born to single mothers were adopted by the young lady’s parents, problems in society were not talked about and brushed under the rug, individuals with intellectual disabilities were shunned to the back porch, and people of other religions (or those without religion) had it forced upon them in a violation of the Constitution. You can have your racist “good ‘ol days,” but I’m content with the progress we have made as a society today (and it’s not complete yet).
mark
October 7th, 2009
8:29 am
Enter your comments here
mark
October 7th, 2009
8:29 am
Bring this up at small group
Tony
October 7th, 2009
10:18 am
Keep religion out of schools. The kids are somewhat misguided with their intentions. They can easily use banners with motivational quotes without referencing religion, if need be.
As for some of these extremists actually defending this, I wish they would actually practice what the bible preaches: faith, understanding, forgiveness, etc., rather than trying to ram their beliefs on others. Yes, extremists is a correct characterization.
Darren
October 7th, 2009
10:48 am
I thought the First Amendment to the Constitution protected freedom of speech. Either I’m misunderstood, or the freedom of speech only applies to things other than the Bible.
Steve
October 8th, 2009
11:50 pm
I find it interesting with all the comments how those offended by the banners can’t state what they are offended by. Do the words somehow irreparably harm you? I might be offended by what you wear, but I don’t call the fashion police. Society screams separation of church and state because they don’t want someone telling them there is a moral code they are violating. Everywhere you look society, government, and schools tell us to be “tolerant” of others. What they mean is we are to accept, endorse, and promote other views. According to Daniel Webster, the word tolerate means “to allow”, to respect others’ beliefs without sharing them”. I find a disparagingly wide gap when it comes to tolerating Christian views. If a Christian viewpoint is expressed, everyone is immediately offended and the ACLU or ADL come running. Can anyone give me an example of when the ACLU successfully defended a Christian civil liberty that was being trampled by secular society? Secular society screams the Christians want to brainwash our children with their religion. No one seems to be offended or worried about brainwashing when the Muslims want to promote their “culture” in our schools. How about the gays pushing their agenda through Hollywood or our schools as a normal lifestyle. What about the big bang theory? No one says “stop the brainwashing”. It is interesting to watch people who say they are tolerant be some of the most intolerant individuals when it comes to Christianity. Tolerance is practically mandated for everything except Christianity. What are these individuals so afraid of? That they might go to heaven? I hear people say Christians are hypocritical to what Jesus stood for and exclusive. They say Jesus was tolerant to everyone. They could not be more mistaken. Jesus was inclusive and offered salvation to all. However, He was not tolerant. When He forgave the prostitute of her sins, He didn’t say “it’s all good, do what you please.” No, He said “go and sin no more”. He always told the people to turn from their sin and do what is right. As America is a melting pot of cultures, religions, and beliefs, secular society has come up with a post modernistic view that we can’t have one belief system of higher value than another so all must be equally valid. Unfortunatelly that will not work and have society co-exist as opposing views can’t equally be valid. There has to be an absolute right and wrong. If I believe I have a right to steal your posessions and you believe stealing is wrong, then we have a problem. The Ten Commandments keep coming up as an issue as to displaying them on public property. People are offended by them because it promotes religion. Which one? Even the Muslims follow them. Yes, they are of Judeo-Christian origin, but what about its content offends you. Is it the 4th commandment that says “Honor your father and mother”? I’ll bet the parents of delinquent children wish their children would obey that one. How about “Thou shalt not steal”, or “Thou shalt not kill”? Any problems yet? Is it the one about lying about someone and slandering them. Don’t we all like it when others talk bad about us and make up lies behind our back? How about not committing adultery? I’m sure the spouse adultery was commited against would wish this one was kept. And the last two where it says we should not covet or try to cheat our neighbor’s wife, house, or belongings away from him. Boy, it seems almost every law we have in the land can be traced back to the last 7 commandments which were given to the Israelites as civil responsibilities. By the way the first 3 are so offensive they tell us to love God, go to church, and not use His name to curse with. No, I find it amusing when I see a 5 year old talk back to his mother using profanity interlaced with Jesus Christ. Yes it shows maturity and a strong grasp of the English language. As a society we need to decide what is going to be our societal, moral, ethical compass. If it is going to be 9 individual opinions on a bench in Washington, then we will fail as a society and repeat the failures of societies of history because they are fallible. We have to have an absolute. Our founding fathers knew this and also knew our constitution would only work when coupled with a Judeo-Christian values and belief system. Not one denomination, but of the universal Christian church. It would not work in conjunction with the Koran, Budhism, Hinduism, or other philosophies as they place different values on life, liberties, and the pursuit of happiness and therfore would not mesh as synchronosly.
bandjzmom
October 15th, 2009
8:05 am
Well, I think that Steve hit the nail squarely on the head. Thanks Steve!! I happen to live in the county from which this story originates. Nobody was trying to “force” any religion upon any person present at those games. It was not the school’s idea to do those banners. The cheerleaders were just trying to motivate and support their team. If I were in the Middle East, I would expect to see quotes from the Koran, and I would not be at all offended by them. I would not feel as if anyone was trying to force me to become a Muslim. This is America, and this country was founded on Christian principles. “In God, we Trust.” If we see a sign that advises us to “drink Coca-Cola,” we are not then obliged to go forth and do so. The signs were not causing any harm. Period.
Kenny
October 15th, 2009
10:12 am
I read the article, read most of the comments and I hope folks in Georgia have a better memory than most. A couple of years ago, you were suffering, in a great way, for the lack of water. When your Gov. publically prayed (along with others) for water, rain soon fell. Then, as now, you had the same comments about the “wrongness” of public displays of Christian faith, almost word for word, the same old tired arguments. You were critical of the public display of Christian faith. Nevertheless, your lake is now full and you have plenty to drink.
However, in the last few days the rain has fell “too much” and your great city has flooded. A terrible tragedy, no doubt. Lots of suffering. I wish it on no one. But with that said, I ask a question, if you follow your logic in objecting to public displays of faith; and if Christians were to publically display their faith once again, should you not now blame your floods on the poor un-educated, mis-guided Christians who publically express their faith in God? Of course not, that would be silly and no doubt you would remember the lesson of history, ancient Rome did this, and this kind of “mis-guided thinking” became the basis for terrible Christian persecution. You would not do this.
So a premis emerges from your reason and logic; Christians should not express their faith publically, because doing so may validate their faith before others. True also, but for a different reason, negative consequences in this world should not be attributed to Christian practices. The latter you have learned from history. Today, that is the status quo. Christians have lived with this situation for centuries and in a moderate society, they can do so for centuries to come. So the problem should be solved if we follow this simple premis. However, in my feeble mind there still remains one single question to be answered; what is going on with all these water issues; you know first there is not enough and you thirst, and now there is too much and you are flooded? Is there a lesson to be learned here?
Is it wrong to let our kids publically display their faith before a football game?
James
October 15th, 2009
11:01 pm
The Bible is a vital piece of all of literature. It just so happens that the same book is the same book we base our religion upon. If we all read ‘Moby Dick’ in church, we couldn’t talk about it in school, could we?
taylor
January 26th, 2010
12:09 am
i am so proud of these girls. they stood for what they believed in, and there is NOTHING wrong with that.
thanks girls.
lrb
January 28th, 2010
10:51 pm
Has anyone thought about the fact that if there is a God, would he be pleased to see his scriptures used at such a petty event as a football game?!?! seriously…. who prays to god to win a football game?? Selfish.