The Democratic pushback on health care reform
The message from the Sunday talks shows was that President Barack Obama was willing to cut loose plans for a public insurance entity to compete with private insurers.
The pushback from the left side of the Democratic party began early this morning. “You’re not going to have real reform with some sort of public option. That’s pretty clear,” said former Democratic national chairman Howard Dean in an interview on NBC’s “Today.”
Dean predicted that, once Obama realizes that Republican votes in Congress aren’t to be had, regardless of any compromises, the public option will return.
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48 comments Add your comment
reservoirDAWG
August 17th, 2009
2:08 pm
It’s dead.
Joppie
August 17th, 2009
2:11 pm
A public option is only a threat to private enterprise if those enterprises are incapable of providing quality services at a reasonable price. Are the worshippers of the Free Market God so insecure in their beliefs that they will not allow those plagued with pre-existing conditions to purchase insurance from anyone at all? Surely not, what with them being such good people, just fighting for what’s right all the time.
mw
August 17th, 2009
2:17 pm
I’d like to see some changes to the McCarran-Ferguson Act to deal with the insurance companies.
billy bob from cobb
August 17th, 2009
2:36 pm
Please don”t tax me any more to pay for this.The only ones that should be paid for are those born with a condition, all others should have worked harder or planned better. Tired of paying for those too damn lazy to do for theselves
Anthony
August 17th, 2009
2:37 pm
Fact: Insurance, by definition, is based on risk, not on need. If you are healthy, eat right and exercise you are a lower risk than if you are fat, have a bad diet, smoke and/or don’t exercise. Good drivers have lower insurance premiums than drivers with speeding tickets, DUI and other violations. It is agreed that preexisting conditions and insurance portabilty needs to be addressed, but a non-profit driven government solution is not the answer. FACT: Allowing a taxpayer supported entity that has the power to set rates below cost is not competition, it is predatory business practice and against the law in the free market system.
Joppie
August 17th, 2009
2:43 pm
That’s right, Anthony! That’s why FedEx and UPS went out of business when the U.S. Postal Service came along. Thanks for setting us straight.
Chris
August 17th, 2009
2:43 pm
How can you say a public option is ONLY a threat to private enterprises if they are incapable of providing quality services at reasonable prices? I mean think about it… if you were a private insurer, could you compete with another provider if that competitor operates at a loss that is subsidized by the people? Looking at Medicare and Medicade(which they said wouldn’t run at a loss and now does), they are supposedly run by the government but if you actually investigate, you will find that private insurers actually handle the claims. And why are private insurers handling the claims? Answer: Because they can do it more efficiently than the government. Besides, on a state by state basis, the government actually very heavily regulates insurance pricing and plan design already. Given that, I’d say we have already seen the government fail us.
billy bob from cobb
August 17th, 2009
2:43 pm
Don’t want my health care ran by the same people who run the post office. Don’t we already have enough failing social programs for the stupid and lazy? I guess its easier to buy a vote than work for it.
billy bob from cobb
August 17th, 2009
2:45 pm
Joppie do you have your green card?
Bubba
August 17th, 2009
2:45 pm
Anthony, I’m all for discounting rates for people who don’t smoke, eat right and exercise. But are you so heartless as to exclude from health coverage people who had childhood cancer, have genetic-based ailments, etc., as is currently the situation unless one works for the government or a huge corporation?
The Road to Hell is Paved With Good Intentions
August 17th, 2009
2:46 pm
So what are the statist worshipers of the “Totalitarianistic Government God” afraid of? Competition? Individual decision-making? Liberty? The ability to choose one’s own doctor?
Sadly, the answer is “all of the above”.
Bankerrkt
August 17th, 2009
2:46 pm
Dean is just playing to his base. Obama is in fact the consummate politician (although he told us he wasn’t during the campaign) and sees his poll numbers dropping like a rock. I doubt he will see much value in antagonizing the American people any further over this issue.
Joppie
August 17th, 2009
2:47 pm
Billy Bob, you mean those people who take a birthday card from your hand on Monday and deliver it to your friend and/or relative five states away on Wednesday… FOR 44 CENTS? Yeah, for $0.44 they should deliver it in a hovercraft in ten minutes like the Orbitz guys on TV. Buncha crooks….
Anthony
August 17th, 2009
2:54 pm
FACT: The underlying Obama administration agenda is to drive 16% of the US economy to a single, tax payer backed, government controled entity that has no profit motive.
Citizen of the World
August 17th, 2009
2:54 pm
I support a public option and would be more than willing to pay premiums, deductibles and co-pays for it, equal to what I would pay in the private sector. At least then I would know that my premiums were not going toward lavish lifestyles for insurance company CEOs who, as it stands now, earn in the tens of millions of dollars every year. Nor would it be going to people whose sole job description is to find a way to deny my claim or cancel my coverage.
Of the premiums that go to my health insurance company, about 30 percent is spent for administrative costs, whereas for Medicare, administrative costs are about 4 percent.
The profit motive is a clear and corrupting conflict of interest when it comes to delivering health care coverage.
I don’t think home and auto insurance should be for-profit either, but the reason the for-profit model works for these valuables is that, generally speaking, the insurance company can know, based on the replacement value of your house or car, plus a set liability for accidents and injury, what their maximum payout would be.
For health, there’s no way to know. Even someone who exercises, eats right, doesn’t smoke and drinks moderately, etc., could still get some dread disease that would cost the company a virtually incalculable amount of money. They try to game the system as best they can by cherry-picking their customers, but when that doesn’t work, they can always go back over your policy with a fine-tooth comb and rescind it because you failed to mention that boil on your butt from 10 years ago.
If the insurance companies can’t compete with a public option — which many of us will support simply because we’ve had it with their heartless greed — that’s their problem.
pd
August 17th, 2009
2:58 pm
I think Dean is right that Obama won’t get Republican votes no matter what he proposes.
Citizen of the World
August 17th, 2009
3:06 pm
We have a public education option, subsidized by your tax dollars, and they haven’t kept private schools from thriving right along side.
And all of us pay taxes to support these schools whether or not we have children, and whether or not we send our own to private school, because we recognize that an education populace is important to the general welfare.
A healthy population is important to the general welfare, too. I have employer-sponsored health insurance, so I would be ineligible for the public option, but I still support it as a way for those without to have an affordable health insurance option.
Chris
August 17th, 2009
3:07 pm
Something that everyone seems to ignore that is really driving up medical costs is Law suits. How about some tort reform? Oh, that’s right, I forgot that most politicians are lawyers… silly me
Anthony
August 17th, 2009
3:08 pm
Joppie, have you tried to send a one ounce envelope by FedEx or UPS? Their cost is NOT $0.44!! They made a business based decision and do not compete in that market. The only game in town is the USPS, a quasi-governmental agency that operates at or near a loss. Actually your argument, same as presented by Obama last week, supports the failure of single payer and why it is not a viable option. Try again. Bubba, I’m not heartless. The insurance risk pool as I described is based on personal accountabilty. The chronically ill should be handled as a separate group, not in the majority.
Jeff
August 17th, 2009
3:11 pm
I’m 54 years old with a heart condition. I’ve worked all my life and never asked the government for anything. But I know if I loose my job (and my current health care), I won’t be able to get any coverage from a private insurer.
JP
August 17th, 2009
3:20 pm
I think it’s obvious that neither party, nor the public wants Health Care reform. If they did, it would have passed already. That’s a democracy/republic. Dems, Repubs, and the general public are all guilty of playing loose with the facts on this issue. Until over 50% of this country can’t pay for their health care, meaningful reform will never get passed.
Citizen of the World
August 17th, 2009
3:20 pm
We have tort reform in Georgia but I don’t think it did anything to lower premiums. What we need is insurance reform! We also need doctors, hospitals (and those who insure them) who will own up when they’ve screwed up and quit clogging the courts trying to defend the indefensible. This would certainly thwart the lawyers, wouldn’t it?
And Anthony @3:08, if we were to handle the chronically ill as a separate risk pool, who else would cover these sick individuals BUT the government? The idea behind insurance is to spread the risk, not eliminate it. That simply can’t be done.
And don’t get me wrong. I’m all for personal responsibility when it comes to health. But despite my best efforts — I’m a vegetarian who exercises five times a week — some toxic avenger from our industrialized environment could be working its harm in my body as we speak, and I could get cancer or something. And when I do, sorry Charlie! The insurance company will have to pay as long as I’m on a group plan, but if I should lose my job and consequently my coverage, I will be SOL when I go to buy an individual policy.
Citizen of the World
August 17th, 2009
3:24 pm
JP, the public wants health care reform. You need to get out more, maybe over to the blogs on some papers from elsewhere in the country. Here, surrounded by red state group think, you might think you’re in the majority, but you’re not. People are mad as hell, and they’re not going to take it anymore.
Citizen of the World
August 17th, 2009
3:24 pm
Enter your comments here
Anthony
August 17th, 2009
3:25 pm
Citizen of the World, your liberal tail is out as you’re changing the subject. Are you really arguing that the government run school system is on level with the private schools and that’s the model we should do with health care? We threw a boatload of money at the schools (typical liberal solution), and how has that worked out? Inside of the language of the bill are provisions that prohibit you from having private insurance and drive you into the government option. All healthcare options, just like schools, are not created equal and I and many others want a choice. Delta has direct flights to Paris (even Taxachusetts) if you want to live in a no-profit society.
Citizen of the World
August 17th, 2009
3:27 pm
JP, you might think you’re in the majority, here in Georgia where you’re surrounded by red state group think, but if you get over to some blogs at other papers around the country, you’ll see that people are fed up and they’re not going to take it anymore. The time has come for health care reform.
booger
August 17th, 2009
3:31 pm
Just a wild thought.
Obama throws everything on the table and says he wants a bipartisian bill. He knows this will not happen so he lets the process bog down in Congress. Now he steps forward and says he has given Congress every chance, but since they have failed, he will have to implement his own program under the reconciliation act.
Far fetched, huh.
JP
August 17th, 2009
3:31 pm
Citizen, I WANT healthcare reform. But what are the “fed up people” doing? Nothing. Re-electing the same people over and over again who have not addressed the issuse for 40 years.
Anthony
August 17th, 2009
3:34 pm
No question that pre-existing conditions, insurance portability, tort reform and chronic conditions are major issues that need to be addressed. However, you do not need to tear down the house to fix the plumbing. That is core of the debate but seldom at the surface.
Citizen of the World
August 17th, 2009
3:38 pm
Sorry for the double post of virtually the same idea. There was a delay and I thought maybe it kicked out my comment because I said “hell.” That’s about as strong as my language gets.
Anthony says I changed the subject by suggesting that the public/private insurance coverage model might work along the lines of the public/private school model, but I think it’s a perfectly valid comparison.
Our public education system has produced some of the greatest minds in the country and around the world. Usually, when and if the public schools fail, it’s because the parents in the home failed to model a love of learning and a respect for education. How are your kids doing in school?
You’ll have a choice with health care reform. You can keep the doctors you have and the insurance you have. One choice you won’t have is to opt for the public option if you currently have employer-sponsored health care.
And if for some reason your employer decides to drop your coverage, you’ll have the public option. And if they drop your coverage, maybe it’s because it’s a huge burden on them, and that shouldn’t be the case. It isn’t the case in every other Western-style capitalist/socialist country on the planet.
And let’s face it, that’s what we are: capitalist/socialist. And it has to be that way because neither pure capitalism nor pure socialism works.
Steve
August 17th, 2009
3:42 pm
I currently have coverage through my corporate job which I’m grateful to have these days. But I was contracting for a while, and I know too well what is like to pay for your own insurance – hundreds of dollars per month for a insurance with a deductible so high you have to get hit by a truck for it kick in. Sometimes the doctor would waive the fee out of sympathy others would overcharge until the deductible was hit. The system is so broke its not funny. A public option is real alternative for the mess we’re in
Anthony
August 17th, 2009
3:45 pm
FACT: Obama states that 2/3 of the cost of his plan will be paid for by eliminating fraud and abuse and the other 1/3 by taxing the “rich”. And exactly why has the government not eliminated fraud and abuse anyways? Because they have no motive to do so! The more they spend, the more they tax and are not accountable to their share holders. Unlike a business, they have unchecked power and own the guns, ie IRS. You can boycott a company’s products, but try to not pay your tax bill (except for the 40% that don’t pay any income tax) you get a much different result. Later all, been fun to chat!
Citizen of the World
August 17th, 2009
3:45 pm
JP, glad to hear you want health care reform. I misread your comment to think that you didn’t. But we do have some new blood up in Washington, and they’re trying to revive this issue after it was strangled by the Republicans and left for dead so many years ago.
Now, it looks like the Blue Dog Democrats are the biggest threat to reform, because they’re bowing to pressure by the insurance companies to eliminate the public option.
Get Real
August 17th, 2009
3:52 pm
Chris @ 3:07. Tort reform is a figment of the imagination of those looking for a scapegoat to stave off reform. Malpractice claims have been dropping for the last 20 years. Tort reform legislation has been passed in a majority of states in the last decade and health care costs continue to rise. Republicans passed same in 2003, did health care costs drop?
http://www.maacenter.org/blog/the-truth-about-health-care-and-tort-reform-part-iii.html
Now they are claiming that allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines will lower costs. How many insurance companies compete for policies here in GA? I find it difficult to believe that BCBS of Ga will offer lower costs than BCBS of Florida. Jus sayin.
Water
August 17th, 2009
3:56 pm
I wish Obama had prioritized energy policy and global warming first instead of health care reform. I feel his political capital being sucked into a black hole everyday this health care debate goes on.
Glenn
August 17th, 2009
4:00 pm
A public option would be great for competition would it not ? Not only has insurance become more of a burden on businesses they only pay out 80 percent on claims . Lots of money for lobbyists to water down any healthcare reform bill . If private insurance is so great why is medicaid liked more by its recipients . I would rather have my healthcare in the hands of the government than in the hands of a CEO who will put investors ahead of patients everytime . Not that either option really excited me .
Shannon, M.Div.
August 17th, 2009
4:18 pm
It’s time to divorce health care from employment. That’s just as important as a public option (which is crucial to avoid collusion from insurance companies/drug companies).
Look, folks. We have rationing *now*. It’s called “If you don’t have insurance, you don’t get very good care,” and “if you have insurance, the ‘death panel’ is your HMO stamping ‘no’.”
Should we trust government? Well, I trust it slightly more than I trust Big Business, and health care is Big Business. These are the same Big Businesses that move offshore to avoid paying US taxes, that move any jobs away from the US they can, that maximize shareholder profits on the backs of employees and customers… and let’s not forget the golden parachutes they demand.
Liberals don’t trust corporations. Conservatives don’t trust government. They’re both right.
Dan
August 17th, 2009
4:18 pm
Medicaid liked more by its recipients??? In what universe? The only positive their is the perception that it is free. It is exactly the public interference of medicaid and medicare that compel doctors to charge more to people with private insuarance so they can be kept whole. The comparison of public health care to the post office is a great example of why it would only serve to harm our health care, if you need something delivered tomorrow the USPS is your very last option. If you received a tax deduction for your private health care costs, that would create true competition and render those “evil CEO’s” beholden to customers that actuall have a choice. That is the way to fix the system, give people the ability to “fire” companies they don’t like. That always produces the best product. Unlike government which, time after time year after year, regardless of the venture (military excluded) consistently produces and inferior product
Citizen of the World
August 17th, 2009
4:42 pm
Dan, I could fire my insurance company now. My employer offers a range of plans from a number of different providers. I have opted for the plan that I think suits me best. If I get dissatisfied, I can switch during open enrollment.
And if I weren’t employed by a big company, and I had an individual policy, I would again have the option to go with someone else. The problem comes in if I have any kind of pre-existing condition. Then, if I want to go to a new company, they won’t want to cover me. And why should they? My old company may have received years and years of premiums from me before they ever had to pay a claim. Now, this new company is expected to take me on and start paying out more than they take in right from the start?
It won’t work for them. They’ll see their only choice as to turn me down, which is what they do now because they’re in it to make a profit.
The for-profit model is incompatible with health care coverage that actually covers people. There’s no way around it.
Get Real
August 17th, 2009
4:42 pm
Sorry Dan, those tax credits you speak of won’t be much and Republicans know it. Will they be equal to $6,000 (half of what it costs to insure a family of four)? I think not. We’ll still be in the same position. Lose your job or even switch to a new job, pay COBRA or lose your benefits.
Kory
August 17th, 2009
4:51 pm
I think people that are Citizens of The World need to go live in those countries they are trying to make ours like. You know what this country built itself to an economic super-power and a super-power on individual’s hard work and industry. Our country’s founders established the country where individuality and states rights came before government rights. It also was equally founded on the individual taking responsibility. So please don’t give me more government control & ownership.
I want our government to protect us from those who get over-greedy through laws and enforcement but don’t take over the industry. Don’t tell me every move to make and what I can do and can’t do for the good of my own health. That is to much government and we don’t need it.
We shouldn’t have Social Security as it made people lazy to save and dependent on government for retirement. Our country I think survived pretty well before all these social programs came into place. People took care of one another. Now the government wants to take over all of it. Where will the abuse of power stop? When will individual responsibility and accountability take place?
Say no to government run health care option or government run health care rationing.
Tire of all of us who are happy with our way of life having to get screwed by those who won’t or didn’t do what they should when they could or those won’t and therefore don’t.
The Road to Hell is Paved With Good Intentions
August 17th, 2009
5:24 pm
Think you can’t afford health insurance now? Do you think a government MONOPOLY on health insurance will be **more efficient**? Think again.
Via Investors Business Daily 6/19/2009:
“The results are clear: Since 1970 — even without the prescription drug benefit — Medicare’s costs have risen 34% more, per patient, than the combined costs of all health care in America apart from Medicare and Medicaid, the vast majority of which is purchased through the private sector.
Since 1970, the per-patient costs of all health care apart from Medicare and Medicaid have risen from $364 to $7,119, while Medicare’s per-patient costs have risen from $368 to $9,634. Medicare’s costs have risen $2,511 more per patient.”
So rather than health care constituting 16% of our economy, you’d rather it command 21.5% of the economy?
Bill White
August 17th, 2009
6:47 pm
What about tort reform? It’s not happening because most trial lawyers are leftists who enjoy their huge unearned salaries. That’s a big part of the problem. Docs are walking away from it all because they’re scared of getting sued so they pass the costs on to the customer. We need tort reform and market-based solutions like what Whole Foods does and those Minute Clinics. Big-time docs will be cheaper if they didn’t have to pay for malpractice insurance and high taxes. You liberal McFlys don’t get it. Taxes kill competition! Get the gov’t off their backs and prices will come down.
Gemma
August 17th, 2009
7:27 pm
I’ve had cancer twice. I was incredibly lucky to have a great employer-sponsored health insurance plan. But what if I hadn’t been lucky and worked for an employer who couldn’t afford insurance coverage?. Or didn’t have a job in the first place because I was too sick to work? Why is insurance coverage tied to employment anyway? It just doesn’t make sense. How can our products compete with those made in countries where employers are not saddled with such huge insurance premiums as costs of doing business? Obama shows great courage to take on the status quo and try to make things better. It is too bad that he is being harassed and vilified for his efforts.
Chris Mathews is covered in his own spittle
August 17th, 2009
9:52 pm
Howard Dean is a tool. And if by push back you mean cave. Then good. The American people have spoken and now realize that Obama is not what they voted for.
John
August 18th, 2009
2:57 am
In his mass email from the White House last week, David Axelrod proposed this bill of “Consumer Protections,” which is the administration’s idea of “health insurance reform”:
“8 ways reform provides security and stability to those with or without coverage:
Ends Discrimination for Pre-Existing Conditions: Insurance companies will be prohibited from refusing you coverage because of your medical history.
Ends Exorbitant Out-of-Pocket Expenses, Deductibles or Co-Pays: Insurance companies will have to abide by yearly caps on how much they can charge for out-of-pocket expenses.
Ends Cost-Sharing for Preventive Care: Insurance companies must fully cover, without charge, regular checkups and tests that help you prevent illness, such as mammograms or eye and foot exams for diabetics.
Ends Dropping of Coverage for Seriously Ill: Insurance companies will be prohibited from dropping or watering down insurance coverage for those who become seriously ill.
Ends Gender Discrimination: Insurance companies will be prohibited from charging you more because of your gender.
Ends Annual or Lifetime Caps on Coverage: Insurance companies will be prevented from placing annual or lifetime caps on the coverage you receive.
Extends Coverage for Young Adults: Children would continue to be eligible for family coverage through the age of 26.
Guarantees Insurance Renewal: Insurance companies will be required to renew any policy as long as the policyholder pays their premium in full. Insurance companies won’t be allowed to refuse renewal because someone became sick.”
The biggest problem with American health care is the cost–both for the insured and the uninsured. What effect do you suppose the 8 “reforms” above will have on the cost of health insurance? Ordering the insurance companies to insure all comers indefinitely with no limits will do two things: a) price insurance beyond the reach of all but the very wealthy, and b) bankrupt the insurance companies. Then, just like the big banks, the government will take them over, and you will have your beloved “single-payer universal healthcare.” And if you think health care is expensive now, just wait until it’s free.
Tom
August 18th, 2009
11:39 am
Missing the point. If this is so good for us, why did congress exempt itself from this “remarkable” coverage>
Sally
August 19th, 2009
2:27 pm
Anthony — Does this mean you are willing to give up being covered by Medicare when you turn 65? That and the Veteran’s Administration are “public option” insurance programs…