Does Hamilton Mill UMC have the largest VBS in Georgia?

A friend posted a  few weeks ago on Facebook that her church – Hamilton Mill United Methodist Church — was looking for more helpers at their Vacation Bible School because they were expecting more than 800 kids!  I’ve taught at VBS programs since I was a teenager, and I couldn’t even fathom a VBS program being that large. So of course I wanted more info. Here’s what my friend wrote about her church’s program:

“We had 850 kids, 170 Youth volunteers (7th -12th grade), 150 adult volunteers, and 86 6th graders who did community service activities outside the church during the VBS time. They were all done at the same time. The have a planned drop off that all the children are dropped off from 8:30 to 9am. In a carpool line and the youth take them to their leaders in one of two rooms. The children have on a name tag with their group for example KA which is Kindergarten group A. Then the children have rooms to go to or centers (snack, arts and crafts, music and two big group worship service sort off that talks about the topic of the day. They rotate through different activities. Oh and there is a nursery and Pre-K group for workers (volunteers only). We did Kingdom Rock was the name of the VBS we did. Also the Director of Ministries has been at our church for many years. … Also on the Sunday night before VBS we have a meet and great for parents to come and meet the staff and their child’s teacher or teachers for the week. We even have people that are in charge of snack, carpool so each area has a director if that makes any sense.”

I’ve been teaching fifth graders at our church’s Vacation Bible School this week, and we only have about 200 kids, which is very manageable.

Another friend reported that her non-denominational church in Buckhead had more than 700 and the open registration (for non-members) filled in seven minutes! She got two of her kids in but didn’t get her youngest a spot. (They go to the church regularly but aren’t officially members.)

So I’m wondering: Are most VBS programs running 700 to 800 kids now? Is this because it’s a lot cheaper than a regular camp or sometimes even free? Why are they so popular? Are there churches running programs bigger than that?

How many kids were in your church’s VBS program? Why do you think they are so big?

54 comments Add your comment

mom2alex&max

June 14th, 2013
6:08 am

Mt Bethel Methodist welcomed 1050 this week.

Busy Mom

June 14th, 2013
6:39 am

I think First Baptist Snellville usually has around 900.

Busy Mom

June 14th, 2013
6:41 am

I think one reason they are so big is that parents are looking for free babysitting, and the kids just make the rounds to all the different churches.

K's Mom

June 14th, 2013
7:16 am

We live in Auburn, AL and our church had VBS last week and they had about 500 kids. Busy Mom, you may be right about cheap/free babysitting, but my 3yo (too young for VBS) has been bored to tears when his Mother’s Morning Out Program is closed. I cannot blame parents for seeking out these types of activities for their kids. K needs the interaction 2-3 days a week and since I work part time from home, it helps me to have 3 hours in the morning where I can work.

Don Abernethy

June 14th, 2013
7:27 am

First Baptist Snellville had almost 1300 (1288) at VBS. PTL. Over 50 accepted Jesus.

MG

June 14th, 2013
7:47 am

Smitty’s Holiness in Deepstep enrolled 25,000. But, they were giving away free meth.

xx

June 14th, 2013
7:51 am

Indoctrination centers like these should be outlawed.

Ann

June 14th, 2013
7:56 am

Unfortunately, the over-scheduling of kids continues throughout the summer, as it does during the school year. I think this is due, in part, to parents work schedules, but also because kids are so used to being scheduled, that they may get restless or bored when something is not planned.

I was really hoping my 8 year old son would have some neighborhood kids to run around and play with during the summer, but they are just rarely around. He likes to explore, play in the creek, play ball, etc. He wants to do only one camp during the summer. I have never had a problem with him getting bored, which is in large part because when he was younger, he did not watch any television for the first 4 or 5 years and he was not in any preschool or Mother’s Morning Out. He’s used to “creating his only play” every day and he entertains himself and comes up with things to do or build on his own.

He is at the age, though, where he wants to meet new friends, so it’s a shame that there are so few kids available during the summer in the neighborhood just to hook up with casually, without having to schedule a specific play date with someone outside our immediate neighborhood.

Techmom

June 14th, 2013
8:02 am

“Free babysitting” I’m quite sure is why there are so many kids. Since VBS doesn’t go all day, I’m sure it’s just a way for some parents (who aren’t there volunteering) to get a couple of hours a day for a week to themselves. I know the reasons behind VBS and obviously churches see it as a great outreach but it is definitely not my thing. Our church usually has 40-50 kids at VBS but we also don’t go to a mega-church that could accommodate a several hundred. We probably have space for a hundred but we definitely don’t have the staff for them.

I will be on our church’s youth retreat all next week but I’d rather spend a week with middle and high schoolers than a few hours a day with pre-schoolers/elementary kids.

TallMom

June 14th, 2013
8:07 am

Ann…wish you loved near me…our sons would get along wonderfully!

Not only do we have an issue with kids being over scheduled or on vacation…a lot of kids in our neighborhood don’t want to play outside. I know it’s really hot midday…but mornings and evenings are decent. We have a creek, a neighborhood playground, a nice yard, plenty of outside toys, lots to do! It’s so weird that these kids stay cloistered inside all summer. Frankly, my kids would drive me insane if they stayed inside all the time.

As for VBS…yep, lots of people use it for free babysitting. Our kids attend one at a local church and it’s pretty large. Well run, though and they really enjoy it. They’ll only be going to that one, not “VBS-hopping” for free sitting lol. This one is in the evenings, which works better with our schedule.

thekimmer

June 14th, 2013
9:40 am

@ xx: Outlawed? Oh you mean like it is in tyrannical and authoritarian regimes around the world? Well you are showing your political stripes aren’t you.

Here is a though. Its a free country. Nobody forces anyone to send their kids to VBS. If you don’t want them to go you keep em at home. As far as the kids are concerned they are kids. They do what their parents want. Pretty much all kids are ‘indoctrinated’ by their parents no matter what side of the religious spectrum they are on. You just want to outlaw what you disagree with which is quite chilling.

xxx

June 14th, 2013
10:51 am

Kimmy- What is chilling is your obvious shallow thinking. I see ALL religions as useless mythology that only damage society. Look back thorugh world history, they all have buckets of blood on their hands. How many conflicts in place today are over silly religious disagreements? Removing the ideaological brainwashing would allow peoples to interact with fewer predjudices. I am quite familiar with the right afforded to US citizens by the Bill of Rights. You see, I am not concerned with VBS impact on me, it is how those affect will grow up and vote that drives the behavior of the nation that is the problem. A great example is the BSA flap. Churches rattling their sabers and kicking these kids out is the ultimate example of the tyrannical and authoritarian regimes that you seemed so concerned about. I guess when it is your regime it’s OK, huh? I want to better society, not divide it further.

1611

June 14th, 2013
11:17 am

I’m sure the big entertainment centers…er, uh mega-churches run very large numbers at their VBS (assuming they still teach the Bible). I attend a small IFB church & we run about 150-200 in our Vacation BIBLE School…and teach the Gospel (trying to win souls for Christ).

Scooby

June 14th, 2013
11:34 am

Not a fan of the mega churches. Much prefer a smaller Christ led, not dollar led church.

Mayhem

June 14th, 2013
12:00 pm

@Scooby – ALL churchs are dollar led. That’s why they pass the collection plate around at any and all church functions. They ALL Worship the almighty dollar.

catlady

June 14th, 2013
12:03 pm

I have rarely had my kids in churches with over 50 kids at VBS. That is probably because we generally have been a part of small, churches. Kids in public school feel like just a number anyway; why continue that pattern? I am afraid a VBS with so many would not be as enriching an experience. However, when I was in grad school my kids went to a few that were large (over 100) and well-done, kudos for those who can do that! But 800? Crazy!

The thing I don’t like about our area is that VBS is almost always at night.

beth

June 14th, 2013
12:13 pm

Wow… that’s really big. I didn’t realize any of them were that big. Although my kids attended our UMC for preschool and kindergarten, they have never been to VBS.

I have never put my kids in any summer camps. During the school year, between school and activities, sometimes it feels like I am trapped in a tornado and just struggling to keep my feet on the ground. But summer… that’s MY time with them. This summer, in addition to the pool and normal summer activities, we will go to the Aquarium, Fernbank, Atlanta Center for Puppetry Arts, a Marta ride to the Airport, The King Center, Gwinnett’s Enviornmental Heritage Center, and probably COSI in Ohio when we go up to visit family. Oh and I really want to go to the Civil War Cemetary and eat at the 6 feet under restaurant. With so much fun stuff to do with your kids, I don’t understand why people send their kids to camps all day. I always thought of camps as just an extension of daycare. I recently asked a question on a different mom blog if my kids were missing out by not being in camps. It seems like everyone does them, some people do back to back to back camps, but the overwhelming response was NO. I have to admitt, at the end of the school year, I’m always a little hesitant about having the kids home all day… afraid they will drive me crazy. But by the end of summer, I’m always wishing for more time with them so we can experience more things together. It’s a very personal and bonding time for me and hopefully the kids too. Sometimes, I can forget how fun they are to be around and I like being the there to watch them as they learn and grow. Camps in general are way over rated in my opinion.

HB

June 14th, 2013
12:23 pm

Really, Mayhem? Any church that collects offerings that keep church operations going and fund charitable programs worships the almighty dollar? How do you suggest they fund their organizations?

Nonbeliever

June 14th, 2013
12:34 pm

Best comments by Mayhem and Scooby!

Scooby

June 14th, 2013
12:37 pm

Mayhem -I wasn’t referring to the offering plates. I grew up putting my dime in every week. It was expected. I’m talking the ones with the Starbucks in the lobby. Actual Starbucks, not just serving Starbucks coffee. I could mention the name, but won’t. The same church touted their special Mother’s Day event which turned out to be nothing more than an opportunity for the minister’s wife’s best friend to sell her make up. And you had to buy tickets to attend. If you weren’t in a position to donate thousands of dollars to their building fund of the month, you ceased to exist. This is a very large church in Cumming, you can figure it out.

A

June 14th, 2013
12:37 pm

@beth, most of us enjoy spending time with our kids and wish that time could go on, but the reality is most jobs don’t stop in the summer. I am very lucky to work at home in a fairly flexible job, but I still send my child to what I consider very enriching camps for a little over half the summer (7 out of 12 weeks). He’s an only child, so this way he gets to interact with kids his age (sometimes kids he already knows) and gets to spend focused time on really cool and interesting topics. The other weeks he gets to hang out, we go on vacation and then before we know it school is back in session!

HB

June 14th, 2013
12:50 pm

A, that sounds like a nice schedule. I was an only child, and a week or two of day camps, a week of VBS, and a week at sleepover camp spread out over the summer really helped to keep the long break from getting boring/lonely.

A

June 14th, 2013
1:00 pm

@HB, thanks. We have the range of summer schedules around here from kids in camps and/or daycare type situations the entire time since both parents work full time outside the home to kids who don’t do any camps because one parent is home, to my situation which falls somewhere in the middle. There’s no right or wrong. Unfortunately, we have 12 weeks off in Fulton, which I think is way too much, so you deal with it the best you can.

beth

June 14th, 2013
1:08 pm

@A – I understand that there are working parents and that’s what I meant when I said that I considered camp as an extenstion of daycare. They have to have somewhere to send their kids so it makes sense for them. I am very grateful to be able to stay at home with my kids and I guess I was referring to the signifigant numbers of stay at home parents or parents with flexibility who still send their kids to all of these camps. That’s what led me to ask the question on the other blog in the first place. I thought maybe I was missing out on something great for my kids, by not sending them to camp. I was suprised at the response from many of the stay at home parents who do send their kids to camps. They said no, I am not missing out, and most camps are not really that educational/enriching and are more of a social hang out so at least they are having fun. I don’t know, I guess I have failed to understand the point of all of these camps. I can’t even imagine a camp with 800 kids. And you’re right… summer does end too fast!

Mayhem

June 14th, 2013
1:19 pm

@Beth – could it be because MOST parents have to work, and can’t take the entire summer off?

Also, in my experience, summer camps catered to the stay at home mom. The hours were not conducive to a 9-5 job.

justmy2cents

June 14th, 2013
1:40 pm

Summer camp isn’t conducive to my 0630 to 1700 job at all. Even with before & after care. Plus, I would never send my kids off to be brainwashed at VBS camps. We already have a huge lack of critical thinking skills in this country, no need to add on to it. My in-laws did it, without my consent, ONCE. Now they don’t get the kids in the summer.

MrLiberty

June 14th, 2013
2:40 pm

Free babysitting? I thought that was what the government schools were for.

real life

June 14th, 2013
2:47 pm

After reading this several times I cannot figure out why everyone is discussing the number of children enrolled in VBS. Is this a popularity contest for individual churches? Why does the enrollment number matter?

beth

June 14th, 2013
3:28 pm

@Mayhem, I understand your point, that is why I said in two different posts that I considered camps an extension of daycare… because it makes sense that working parents would need to put their kids somewhere for care.

The thought of putting my kids into a camp never even occurred to me because I AM a stay at home mom. The other blog I spoke of was mostly for stay at home moms and I noticed most of them were also doing camps some back to back to back… and I thought I may be missing out on something great. But even those moms assured me I was not and that most camps that claim educational and fun are mostly just social time away from home. So, besides working parents who need someone to take care of their kids, I personally don’t see the point in all of these camps when there is so much more fun and and alot more learning that a parent could share with their child if they made an effort. It just seemed kind of wierd to me that so many of the moms agreed that these camps are not the learning enviornment they claim to be and that my kids would be better off sticking with me and our schedule for summer fun, but they send their kids to camp anyway. So my questions have nothing to do with working parents. They need daycare and camps serve that purpose. But I was suprised to see so many stay at home parents or parents with more flexible schedules using camps.

My limited expereince with “camp” has not been good. We used to take a tae kwon do class thru a Gwinnett/Suwanee parks and rec program and the camp kids were usually there as well. I saw ALOT of unruly kids and very little supervision. A camp was 1 week… so week after week a different group (maybe some repeats) of kids came thru and I was shocked at the level of chaos and lack of supervision. I had to step in a couple of times to stop kids from playing so rough that someone was going to get hurt. And at one point I had to stop a bullying incident. These were supposed to be “science camps” and other educatonal camps in Suwanee. I know that I couldn’t in good conscience put my kids in a summer camp lke that.

HB

June 14th, 2013
3:38 pm

I doubt a science camp through a rec department would be that great in terms of science ed. Most science centers/museums and nature centers offer camps with staff well-trained in teaching the subject matter in really fun ways, and the facilities are built for exploring science. You may want to try one of those some time.

Jeff S

June 14th, 2013
7:09 pm

Depending on overall church size and ministries, 800 or so isn’t overly uncommon. Unsure what my parents’ church ran last week, but I also know they run 3 or 4 busses and wouldn’t doubt that each of them brought in at least 50 kids a night, + whatever the surrounding neighborhood and others brought in. Apparently my mom’s bus had about 80 or so kids on it at least one night.

motherjanegoose

June 15th, 2013
10:28 am

Late to the dance. We have recently joined a different church. They are expecting over 800 for VBS. Does anyone realize how much work goes into planning for this, not to mention the cost? Many churches do not charge for an entire week, including snacks and crafts. Where else could you send your children ( drung the summer) for FREE? Does it make sense to complain about something that is FREE? If they were handing out FREE ice cream at the park, would I complain …NO! Idiotic. If you do not want to send your kids then that is your choice. I would not send my kids to an Atheist camp even if it was free…my choice.

I worked VBS years ago and have not worked it in a LONG time.

*** @ beth….regarding the staffing at camps: I worked summer camps about 20 years ago here in Gwinnett. There was virtually NO support nor direction from the county as to what we could and could not do. I was a teacher and ran a tight ship. My camps were full. Of course, I was exhausted. Some folks would comment on my tan and ask if I had been to the beach. Um NO PNUT SPORTS CAMP WITH 50 KIDS AND 2 TEENAGERS FOR THE PAST 3 WEEKS. When you have a rotating schedule and NO PRINCIPAL IN HOUSE to handle problems, there is not a lot you can do with discipline problems. When the teenagers are your back up…you are on your own. You are just seeing what most teachers know is happening…more and more unruly kids and these very well may be the ones the parents want to get rid of and send to camp!

*** some churches have night VBS because it is so hot during the day or it is easier to get workers at night. We did this in Texas 25 years ago. I directed the recreation portion of VBS.

***The offering plate…who do you think pays the mortgage and the light bill? Who pays for all the charity provided by the church? If you are an active member of a church, you know that the church is not the building, it is the people. Thus they are responsible for the church. We never expect guests to put anything in the offering plate. That is what the members do. Someone has to pay for things. If you go to a park and sit on a bench…someone has paid for that. Same with the church!

*** Regarding ousting the Boy Scouts. Same thought as the offering. I am not saying it needs to be done but if the BSA is practicing something that is opposite the belief of the church, should they be allowed to meet FOR FREE in the building? That is up to the church. I am allergic to cats. I would not allow a group to come to my house to visit and bring their cats. I would also not allow snake handlers in my house, since I do not care for snakes. What is confusing about that?

My hat is off to those who spend a week working VBS for FREE! Those that are complaining about it should simply avoid it or spend a week of their time volunteering and let us know about it.

Courtney

June 15th, 2013
3:14 pm

This all sounds like great news. But the work is not done and you can tell by all the narrow-minded hate from the liberals on here. I guess if you have no facts then just name call. The Democrat way!

HB

June 15th, 2013
3:22 pm

Courtney, assuming that narrow-minded hate and name-calling posted here comes from liberals and Democrats is pretty narrow-minded, don’t you think?

Bob

June 15th, 2013
6:14 pm

I know of a church in Dallas that just finished vbs Thursday night with over 2,000 which included 300 adult workers. To be sure, they run a much different program because of the number of kids but still very effective.

Uh, HB

June 15th, 2013
6:49 pm

…some of it may be “narrow minded”, yet if the description fits…

motherjanegoose

June 15th, 2013
6:58 pm

@ Bob, I am assuming you mean Dallas TX and not Dallas GA? I do love them both places.
As they say, “everything is bigger in Texas!”

motherjanegoose

June 15th, 2013
6:58 pm

oops…take out them ….sorry!

Unaffiliated Voter

June 16th, 2013
6:23 am

People, beware of the national UMC political agenda that is so pervasive now…reading the latest UMC conference news is disturbing. This lifelong UMC member is not happy with UMC’s social justice
agenda that is anti Constitutional.

DB

June 17th, 2013
7:05 am

I ran a VBS for a few years at a small church — I wish I could say it was fun, but basically, I got really tired of the parents and quit. The church parents, who didn’t register and thought they could just show up that week and drop their kids off, and the parents we had never seen before and would never see again, dropping off their kids and blithely assuring us that they were potty trained — NOT. *snort*. One woman flat-out lied to me, the poor kid pooped in his PullUps in the first 20 minutes, and i called her and told her to come back and get him. She refused, telling me she had a tennis match and wouldn’t be available until after 11. I told her that I would have to go to her emergency contact, and she panicked, since it was her husband and apparently her husband had made a point of insisting that she spend SOME time with their kid and thought the kid was at home with her . . . “but you know how it is, you just get so busy and you need some personal time!”

As a friend of mine is fond of saying, “There’s no cure for stupid . . .”

Mayhem

June 17th, 2013
8:28 am

New topic please!!!

beth

June 17th, 2013
8:35 am

@DB – that story made me think of something I heard on the radio a few months ago. The bit was to get stay at home moms to call in and and make a confession. There was one mom who called in to say that she plays on not 1 but 2 tennis teams and her husband doesn’t know it. She said her husband had no idea she even played tennis at all. And she confessed to doing similar things like you described during the summer to dump her kids so she could have “personal time”. I guess that example is my overall impression of/experience with camps and why I don’t send my kids to them.

FCM

June 17th, 2013
9:43 am

I guess it depends on what the church sees as it’s mission. Is it to provide “Daycare” as described by some of the above comments or to expose children to the wonder and word of God? Our church limits registration to 75 people and it fill quickly. Many of the kids come from inside our church or dayschool (which has a vacation that week) but some are those that are only there just that week.

My children have never attended our VBS. The hours were 9-12 so it didn’t work for us. I think the hours and the limit of kids does keep it focused on God.

However I considered one of the Mega Church VBS this week–but after the above decided she could just stay with my Mom after all.

My other child is at sleep away Church Camp. Left this morning and is very excited (it is her 7th year going).

y15

June 17th, 2013
10:01 am

North Metro Baptist in Lawrenceville had over 900 last week and did a great job.

motherjanegoose

June 17th, 2013
10:27 am

@ FCM…my daughter went to sleep away camp, for the first time, at age 7. SHE LOVED IT! She still talks about how much fun she had and she is 21. I am so happy that she had the chance to do it every summer. My son also went and he had a blast too! They both went to different camps.

I cannot work VBS as I am a pretty strict person, with children. I know that if you give them an inch, they will take a mile. I visited with about 600 children I did not know, last week. We had a marvelous time and I have been asked to come again! Many VBS volunteers have no training in child development and no idea how to run a classroom. I APPLAUD ANYONE WHO VOLUNTEERS WITH VBS. I just do not want to work with them. HAHA. This would be the same as me working with a catering company or in a bank… A REAL MESS as I do not have the expertise. THEY would not want to work with me.

@ Mayhem…give us a topic and we can run with it. I am POSITIVE TWG would not mind if you suggested something. Go for it.

@ beth…some camps are good but as with anything else ; YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

VBS workers deserve a GIANT round of applause!

Mayhem

June 17th, 2013
10:45 am

MJG – I have made NUMEROUS suggestions for topics……..

Ann

June 17th, 2013
11:20 am

@ Beth – I am a stay at home Mom with one 8 year old son. The past 3 years, we have done only one half day camp each summer. And, what we choose, is, in part, based on my son’s particular interests. I would not necessarily suggest having a blanket rule of “no camps, ever”. It can be a good experience for kids to do a camp, as long as you have picked carefully and base it on the interests of the child. Kids can make some neat friends and create good memories.

For us, the camp we choose each summer is intended to be fun, but also to spark an interest in a topic. The first two years it was a drama/theatre camp where the kids plan, rehearse and perform a play. For any kid interested in “dress up” play, acting, etc., this can be great fun and can spur their interest in doing their own creative plays at home with friends and neighbors.

I highly recommend reading online reviews, which you can find for any of the camps that are part of a national business. This helped us rule out one camp we were considering. You do need to be aware as to who will be working with the kids and what kind of knowledge and experience they have. For example, if it’s a camp at a Nature Center, is it a naturalist or a regular employee leading activities or a summer employee with limited knowledge and experience. Both situations can be okay, but it depends on the child and what you are looking for. My son is very interested in nature and knows a lot of the basics and likes to ask questions, so he wouldn’t be a good fit for activities that are too “introductory”.

If at all possible, though, the bulk of the summer should be for “unorganized” play and exploration. I’d rather my son be out in the yard exploring and finding worms and other creatures on his own than having an organizer leading the activity. I do understand that full time working parents have limited options. But, those who have the freedom to choose, I think kids need lots of unstructured, unorganized free play.

My goal is for my son to grow up to be independent, a self initiator with learning, and to know how to enjoy his free time on his own. As a parent, it is my job to have books and stimulating materials around the house and to expose him to a variety of experiences. And, since he is an only child, I help make sure we have some time each week with other kids, whether it is playing in the neighborhood or at the park or pool.

It is “not” my job to keep him from being bored. Parenting is so much easier if you manage to instill in your child at an early age how to “make their own fun” each day. We accomplished this, in part, by keeping the TV and other electronic toys and devices “off”, especially in the early years. So many parents are on this “train” of thinking they need to provide plenty of organized, enrichment activities so their kid will grow up to be successful. And, that they need to keep their kids “busy” so they are not bored. And, society is conditioning kids that they need to be entertained externally. You can’t even go to the dentist these days without being asked “what movie do you want to watch”. It is assumed that you want to watch something. My son asks them to turn the movie off. He wants to interact with the employees and watch them work and observe the instruments.

Ann

June 17th, 2013
11:27 am

@ TallMom – I wish we had more kids like yours around our neighborhood. We have a few, but sometimes they are in camps or on vacation and not around. We find ourselves having to go the park (where there are creeks) or scheduled playdates to hook up with kids. But, I wish there were more opportunities to just spontaneously stumble out of the house and find kids more easily to run around with.

motherjanegoose

June 17th, 2013
11:49 am

@ Mayhem…just start one here today like: What are easy things to fix for dinner when it is too hot to cook? Where do you like to get your summer produce and why? How many swimsuits do Moms really need and what is your limit on spending $$$ for a swimsuit? Do you ever take a vacation without your family and would you go alone? If you saw someone who was being rude to a child, would you step in? ( I did this last year at the beach and the man was a REAL jerk. The front desk at the hotel later told me that he was yelling to his family the entire time and making other guests uncomfortable).

Maybe TWG did not like your suggestions but if you post them here…we can give them a whirl! Or maybe someone wants to comment on the questions I asked. Maybe not…haha!

@ Ann…love your last paragraph!