When are kids gifted or just well prepared for the test?
The New York Times reports that school administrators in New York City are struggling to find ways to differentiate between true giftedness in children and children who have just had lots of prepping by private tutors and their parents.
“…The city’s leading private schools are even considering doing away with the test they have used for decades, popularly known as the E.R.B., after the Educational Records Bureau, the organization that administers the exam, which is written by Pearson.
“ ‘It’s something the schools know has been corrupted,” said Dr. Samuel J. Meisels, an early-childhood education expert who gave a presentation in the fall to private school officials, encouraging them to abandon the test. Excessive test preparation, he said, “invalidates inferences that can be drawn” about children’s “learning potential and intellect and achievement.” …
“Scores had been soaring. For the 2012-13 school year, nearly 5,000 children qualified for gifted and talented kindergarten seats in New York City public schools. That was more than double the number five years ago. “We were concerned enough about our definition of giftedness being affected by test prep — as we were prior school experience, primary spoken language, socioeconomic background and culture — that we changed the assessment,” Adina Lopatin, a deputy chief academic officer in the Education Department, said.
“And yet test prep companies leapt to action, printing new books tailored to the new test and organizing classes. …”
The story has all kinds of examples of the way companies and parents are prepping their kids to take these tests to claim their seats in the gifted kindergarten classroom and other classes. Some 4-year-olds are spending hours weekly over months on test prep.
Now I’ve always heard that you can get false negatives on gifted testing but not false positives – meaning gifted kids can screw up the test (either on purpose or because hey they’re in first grade and who’s paying attention to that lady talking) but they can’t accidentally test in. So I’m not sure what to make of the preparing for the test. I guess they aren’t doing straight IQ tests, which I don’t think you can really prepare for.
At our school in Gwinnett, every child in the first grade took the CogAT in the fall. If they scored 97 percent or higher then they went on to further gifted testing. The CogAT was how they narrowed the field. The child had to pass three out of four categories of the gifted testing to get into the gifted program.
Now at a friend’s school in metro Atlanta that had a higher income level than our school, all the kids were tested for gifted because otherwise the parents complained that they weren’t even given the chance to test.
So what do you think? Can you get false positives with gifted testing? Can you prep for those tests?
Do you think this is New York City problem? (Say like the guy in the Pace salsa commercial.) Is this type of preparation to beat the test happening in other cities around the country? Are you the dumb one if you don’t prep your kids?
Did you prep your child for gifted testing? Did you send them to any type of tutor service or choose a specific private psychologist to do testing to give your child a greater chance to test in?
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70 comments Add your comment
Mayhem
February 19th, 2013
1:46 pm
@jarvis – I love that. All cells in the middle of the table at the restaurant….I’ll have to suggest that to my kids. They go out with their friends often, and come home and complain that so-and-so was on their phone the entire night…..
Techmom
February 19th, 2013
1:55 pm
@one – we’re on the same page. Parents say these things in front of their kids, not realizing the impact of those words. Unfortunately IMO, it’s more of the environment that some kids are raised in that leads to their lack of interest in school and some simply choose not to care. In K, 1st & 2nd maybe they aren’t that tainted but certainly by late elementary and middle school, their home life has a lot to do with their outlook on education and not all want to learn.
Our son is smart but not gifted. He was tested in 3rd grade when he moved from private to public school and missed by only a few points. I never pushed it and never requested that he get tested again because while I think he’s smart, I don’t think he’s gifted and he’s certainly not motivated. We did move him back to private school though and it was mostly for the environment. Are there kids who don’t want to learn in private school? You betcha! But are the majority being pushed by parents to try their best? Absolutely. Not many parents are going to spend another $5k-10k a year for a kid who doesn’t care and doesn’t want to try. We knew however what leaving him in public school in average classes was going to get him; average students, average teachers (most great teachers in public school aren’t teaching the average kid, they’re teaching gifted, advanced, AP, learning support or LD classes) and an average education. No one was going to go pushing him or get excited when he succeeded. We chose to take a chance that it would help give him a good education so he could succeed in college should he choose. He’ll graduate this spring and head to college this fall. I honestly don’t think he’d even be going to college if he’d gone to public school. We’ll find out in the next few years whether we chose wisely or not.
Techmom
February 19th, 2013
1:57 pm
It’s called “Phone Stacking” or “Don’t Be A Di*k During Meals With Friends”
http://www.geekstogo.com/2346/phone-stacking-meal-game-dinner-1-0/
MomsRule
February 19th, 2013
2:06 pm
@onofeach4me, I’ve never heard anyone say they wanted their child in gifted so they are with other students that want to learn. I’m sure it happens though. And, I’m certain it would get tiresome to hear!
Mine learn easily and when things come easy all too often they don’t learn how to study or work through the difficulty when they are young. When they finally get challenged by something they can easily give up as they didn’t learn how to cope at an early age. Also, “bright” (for lack of a better word) kids often feel extra pressue as they believe they are supposed to know everything so a lot of times they won’t ask for help even if a concept is unclear.
Unfortunately, there are issues to be dealt with on both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between.
A reader
February 19th, 2013
2:20 pm
MomsRule, someone said that exact thing on this blog!
Mother of 2 at 8:49: “I was happy when my kids tested into the gifted program because it placed them in a classroom with students who wanted to learn”
Big Mama
February 19th, 2013
2:23 pm
I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. The schools need to return to the days when one test (a standard IQ test) was administered. The top 2% were indentified as “gifted”. The students scoring in the 96th percentile to 98th percentile were admitted to the gifted program if they also were identified as high achievers in the classroom.
In my experience, the truly gifted students are rarely motivated. They have never had to put much effort into scholastic achievement and are bored with school. They need a program that addresses their own needs just as high achievers who are not gifted need acelerated and challenging coursework. But these are two different types of students (though there are overlaps such as catlady’s son).
oneofeach4me
February 19th, 2013
3:38 pm
@MomsRule ~ It does get tiring to hear, especially when you see your child struggle, who does want to learn, but is loosing interest in school because he feels like an outcast.
And actually, that statement was said on this blog earlier by Mother of 2 @ 8:49 am “I was happy when my kids tested into the gifted program because it placed them in a classroom with students who wanted to learn and with teachers who thought outside the box.” I do see that A reader already addressed that part of it though. There is also another blog that I frequent where this has come up more and more recently.
MomsRule
February 19th, 2013
3:55 pm
@A reader and oneofeach4me, apparently I missed the comment at 8:49 this morning. I still hadn’t heard it prior to today though.
motherjanegoose
February 19th, 2013
3:57 pm
@ Mayhem, I agree. Cell phones are NOT allowed at our table, whether at home or in a restaurant. My two know this.
My son tested for gifted in Kinder. My daughter was not in the gifted program. She is a much better studier than my son. She applied herself all the way through and is still doing well at college and working 15- 20 hours per week. My son was used to breezing through things. When he went to college, he realized that there were lots of others who were just as smart as he was. When he started Pharmacy School, he really saw that he had to work. He has 4 weeks left on a rotation and then just wait until he graduates in May.
A neighbor’s son tested gifted early on and scored a PERFECT SAT SCORE in HS. I thought that was amazing! My nail tech told me, last week, that her 1st grader tested gifted at Patrick Elementary in Gwinnett. Mom is very sweet but speaks limited English. I thought that was pretty fascinating and a great accomplishment for the little girl!
MomsRule
February 19th, 2013
4:00 pm
BTW, being in gifted doesn’t mean the other students want to learn. My neighbor’s son was placed in gifted in elementary and he is a terrible student, disruptive, won’t complete his work, etc. So being in a gifted class does not automatically mean you are with students who want to learn.
His parents pulled him from advanced courses in middle school and he is now failing the standard 10th grade curriculum.
oneofeach4me
February 19th, 2013
4:16 pm
@MomsRule ~ well that’s an eye opener!
xxx
February 19th, 2013
4:44 pm
Not to worry, the cream always rises to the top. Frauds will be exposed everytime (but the teacher will get the blame)
Denise
February 19th, 2013
5:06 pm
I was in the gifted program and the “label” near about gave me a neurosis. I was always trying to live up to it. I am intelligent, yes, but I don’t think I am “gifted”…with anything more than the love of knowledge and the ability to learn quickly (usually)…and if I can’t learn it quickly I will work my butt off until I learn it. I stressed myself out trying to be “more than just smart! I have to be GIFTED!” I think it can be a bad thing to put on children if they are anything like I was (afraid of doing anything wrong!). I guess you have to know who you are dealing with. Also, I think you, as a parent, need to be honest about who this “gifted” thing benefits…you or the kid. Do you want your kid to be in a gifted program for his/her benefit (whatever you see it to be) or just because YOU want YOUR KID in a gifted program?
beth
February 19th, 2013
5:31 pm
My 1st grader is going to test for gifted next month. We have not prepped. Although very bright, I have a hard time believing that she is gifted. I guess in my head, I think of “gifted” more along the lines of genius level. But in reality, I think schools label gifted ahead.
I recently moved out of a Title I/high minority and low income school district in Gwinnett and pretty much every white kid I met (in my mostly white middle class neighborhood/surrounding area) was in the “gifted” program. I don’t for one second believe that all the white kids in my neighborhood are actually gifted. But I do believe they are probably significantly ahead of the lower income/minority students… and therefore placed in the gifted program. We sold our house to get out of the Title 1 district, but many of the parents were okay with staying despite the many problems because they were all (maybe not all but most all) were being separated out into the “gifted” program.
beth
February 19th, 2013
5:49 pm
I meant to say schools think of “gifted” only as being ahead of the group. Our school does not test everyone, only who the teacher and gifted couselor advise be tested. My daughter is one of those students. I am not “pushing” for her to get in, but if she does, I will be happy about it. I want her to be challenged. However she is dealing with her challenges with dyslexia, but they tell me they can tailor an educational plan to suit her needs should she get in.
The Dixie Diarist
February 19th, 2013
7:45 pm
Found on my desk late today was a jar of jelly. Nora Mill Granary Georgia Moonshine Jelly, from Gilligan, and a yellow sticky note. His words …
This if for you Todd. Cus your my faivorihc teacher.
Gilligan
I’ll be damned. He’s making a solid F in class and I ride him hard but with an understanding touch. I know that doesn’t make sense, but you’d just have to be there. I give Gilligan all I’ve got, and he gives me back a jar of moonshine-flavored jelly.
It’s a square deal. A struggling child’s affection. What can compare?
http://www.actionjacksonart.com
Guest
February 19th, 2013
9:26 pm
The fact that almost every parent commenter here has a “gifted” son or daughter should raise a red flag. Statistically speaking, almost none of them is actually gifted. However, it’s always the other kids who don’t belong, and never their own.
MomsRule
February 20th, 2013
8:22 am
@The Dixie Diarist, you always share great stories. Thank you!
motherjanegoose
February 20th, 2013
9:57 am
@ Guest…the fact that involved parents have a gifted child makes sense to me.
Denise
February 20th, 2013
8:05 pm
@Guest – I tend to agree with you. I would think that the kids are more likely very smart and maybe at the top of the class, rather than “gifted”. Nothing is wrong with that. It’s a great thing to aspire to. You cannot aspire to be gifted. You just are…and I don’t think it necessarily happens just because you have involved parents. Involved parents will recognize their children’s gifts and talents and even nurture them but cannot create them.