Boy Scouts may soon give sponsors authority to allow gay leaders, members: Do you agree?

NO. Homosexual orientation is incompatible with Scouting. Sending your teenage son off to spend a week in the woods with a gay Scoutleader? No way.

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Peodophile does not equal Gay! I think they are being smart. First off, Boy Scouts has lost tremendous amount of funding in the past couple years: big corporations and big charities including United Way because of their current ban. Even losing some church support. This is a smart approach. Let individual chapters decide. If you don’t want your kid around a gay leader, put them in a different chapter. It is simple as that. Also, the past stance did not protect your sons. Look at all the bad light that the Boy Scouts have been in the past year or so with covering up MARRIED Church members molestation of these boys. As a scout mother, I will be happy to see an end to this ban!

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And what about scouts who are gay or who are discovering they are gay as they are growing up. Hopefully with a reversal of this ban, those boys will still feel included and not discriminated against due to their sexual orientation. I think we as a society are finally moving forward on the topic of gay rights, which is a very good thing.

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Gays have been in scouts for years. As evidenced by the accounts of young scouts being molested going back as far as the 60s. This was recently profiled by the AJC. Do you really want an admittedly gay scoutleader taking your little boy into the woods for the weekend? Political correctness run amok.

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Puh-lease. Gay does not equal pedophile any more than straight equals rapist. Please educate yourself rather than spew your hatred. Thankfully people seem to finally be moving in the right direction as far as LGBT issues.

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Contrary to what some would say, a lot of people are tired of having the gay agenda shoved down their throats.

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@ A realist. It has been brought to my attention by an African American friend that many troops in her area are lead by moms due to the lack of available fathers. (an issue for another day). Still, by your logic, those women should not be trusted to take boys into the woods for the weekend. Gay men like grown men. Just as straight women like grown men. They are not any more inclined to like little boys than a straight man or woman would be.
Now, there are some areas that I would be concerned. If I had a 15 yr old boy scout who I suspected might be gay or who I knew was gay I would not send him into the woods with a gay leader. Especially if that leader was young and/or single. At some point when you have a gay child you need to think about these things. Having a gay nephew I can tell you it’s very difficult to navigate these areas. Sleep overs are tricky. Once my nephew was 16 it made a lot more sense for him to have girls spend the night than boys but, as a parent, how do you allow that? The same would be true of homosexual boys in the Boy Scouts. If there are two or more gay boys in a troop (and how do you really know how many there are) you suddenly have to be concerned about them interacting sexually. If my son was gay and others in his troop were gay I would be concerned about them sleeping in the same tent. I think the key is to keep lines of communication open. People need to keep an open mind on both sides. My nephew got kicked out of a Christian School and a Christian camp. My sister-n-law didn’t complain or fight. She believed, as do I, that it was within the rights of that organization, school etc.. to have restrictions and she found other places for him to go. He actually spent two summers at a gay Christian camp.
I agree with those who say that individual troops should be able to decide but I’m not sure that is feasible. If the Boy Scouts choose, as an organization, to allow them, It seems a parent would have an easy fight on his/her hands to force an individual troop to do so.
Maybe there should just be all gay troops. Then the sleeping issues could be easily dealt with…closer supervision etc.. Just a thought.

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I could two schlitz whether the Boy Scouts allow gays or not.
I don’t buy their popcorn because it’s overpriced.

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Agree with @the other Rodney that an out gay man is less likely to molest anyone than a closeted one who is living a lie as a straight man who’s probably married with kids. Also agree with @Mayhem about boycotting scouts. I’ve done the same and when friends with scouts ask to buy the nasty popcorn, I don’t get into the politics but just politely decline. My son has a number of friends into scouting, but he has never asked on his own if he can join. If he ever did, I would explain that their discrimination policy towards gays is the reason why he can’t. I have gay friends and we are teaching our child that gay is as “normal” as straight. We also stopped going to Chick Fil-A over their executive’s statements about gay marriage.

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They can do whatever they choose. If this is a Christian organization and they are against homosexuality, I have no problem with it. We are talking about volunteers, not employees. Homosexuality will always be a sore spot with Christian organizations. Just as we have many denominations of Christianity, we will have many differing opinions.

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I am a mom of an-almost Eagle Scout (1 more week, yes I am excited & proud!) and a long-time leader with my son’s Troop. I was very disappointed when the BSA announced they would not reconsider their discriminatory policy last year. How can we be asked and ask boys to live up to the Scout Oath and Law while simultaneously being ok with condemning someone? I am happy there has been pressure to reconsider this policy.

Are there gay Scouts & leaders serving today? Absolutely. Do I expect them to all come out and start discussing their sexual orientation at the next meeting? No way! I simply believe there is no room for sex or sexual discussions in Scouts. At no time during a meeting or outing is it appropriate to talk about ones sexual orientation. I don’t expect a gay teacher to discuss his/her orientation with students in a classroom nor do I expect a Scout leader to do the same. It should not be an issue.

I still expect the BSA to continue background checks and maintain strict youth protection policies (which requires 2 adults present at all times among other things) but that starts with the parents. Scouts is a volunteer organization. You want to protect your kid? Get involved. Don’t just drop him off and leave. Help with activities and get to know the other leaders. It is sad and disturbing that cases of abuse have occurred but I do think the BSA has developed a very good protection policy, one good enough that other volunteer-based organizations are using as their basis even.

@Jarvis – I’m with you on the overpriced popcorn. Our troop stopped selling it this year and did a different fundraiser instead.

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And not afraid of gays………….I wish all the Christians would annex themselves to upper Michigan and go away. Or Henry County.

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@Techmom – well said, and congrats on your son’s achievement!

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Facists are not left leaning nor right leaning. People just like to say Facist I think.

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@RJ – Scouts is actually not a Christian organization. Scouts is founded on a principle of “Duty to God” but Scouts operates in all religions. In the US, Scouts tend to be chartered through churches and the religious tone or direction is typically set by the chartering organization so yes, many troops open and close with prayers to Jesus but that’s not a BSA policy.

BTW, I am a Christian and a youth leader at our church as well but I don’t think Christians have an excuse for supporting this discriminatory policy. I think a lot of people are throwing out Biblical references out of fear and not based on what the Bible actually says. Matthew 22:37-38 says “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.” If we used this scripture for the basis of our lives, there is no room for accepting discriminatory policies.

@Proud Eagle Scout – not every one in Henry County is Baptist, an idiot driver or a supporter of this policy (yes, yes, I’m shaking my head because I am neighbors with some of them though!) The idiot drivers are typically not Henry Countians, they’re the idiots driving back from Florida vacations who live north of here. Check out all the Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, etc. tags next time you’re sitting in the mess and remember that the WORST traffic we have is on the weekends when all those travelers are headed home and can’t figure out which lane to get it to either drive north straight through town or get on 675/285. THAT is the problem and the rest of us avoid getting on the interstate on the weekends. The weekday traffic is a result of our county approving lots and lots of cheap houses to be built and yet not attracting any decent-paying companies to actually bring jobs to where the people live so everyone has to commute into town.

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@homeschooler – BSA does not directly receive any federal dollars. Congress has passed laws allowing the BSA access to meet in public facilities but they receive no direct funding. The BSA used to hold the National Scout Jamboree at Fort AP Hill and therefore utilized military resources once every 4 years but that has stopped and BSA now has its own property on which to hold the Jamboree (with this year being the inaugural year at the new site).

BSA is a non-profit organization however so in that sense, they receive a tax benefit but no actual dollars.

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*at 10:30AM

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As the mother of an Eagle Scout (with several Palms!) I am of two minds on this. I think it’s interesting that the Catholic Church can be supported for maintaining its doctrine of no contraception and refusing to take part in socialized medicine because of being forced to provide something that is fundamentally against their most basic precepts, and yet Boy Scouts is condemned for the taking a similar moral stand.

I think a policy of allowing sponsoring organizations to decide is an excellent compromise. I would hate to see the Boy Scout program be unable to provide its very worthwhile programming because of financial constraints. Also, people need to realize that Boy Scouts aren’t just Christian. Yes, many churches sponsor Boy Scout troops. But at the same time, other religious organizations sponsor troops, also — there are Jewish troops, Islamic troops, etc., etc., all whom embrace the Boy Scout’s program of providing the same foundation for personal growth, responsibility and discovery that Boy Scouts has provided for millions and millions of young men over the last 100 years.

Some of the hysteria on gays sorta reminds me, in a historical perspective, of the similar hysteria surrounding whether or not women should be allowed to vote. So much of the opposition was couched in religious terms of a woman’s proper, subjugated place — we find it quaint, now. I wonder if 100 years from now, we will find this discussion of whether gays should be allowed to fully participate in life as God made them to be equally quaint.

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@Homeschooler. BSA is NOT supported financially by the government. They are CHARTERED by the U.S. government. Per Wiki: ” The federal incorporation was originally construed primarily as an honor, however it does grant the chartered organization some special privileges and rights, including freedom from antitrust and monopoly regulation, and complete control over the organization’s symbols and insignia. As example, outside of the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, no other youth organizations may use the term “scouts” or “scouting” in their name. The special recognition neither implies nor accords Congress any special control over the BSA, which remains free to function independently.”

As such, one of BSA’s responsibilities is providing an annual report to Congress on their activities, which is largely ceremonial. However, Congress does not oversee BSA or any other chartered organizations operations, and does not provide funding.

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I’m with homeschooler! I have a 26 yr. old AND a 5 yr. old. I would not allow for so many reasons. There has to be limits to a degree. Leave the sexual preference values to the parents at their own home. That opens the door for others to put more peer pressure on others “to be or not to be?” Whether it be physical interaction or “lockeroom talk”. Scouts begin at a very young age. I believe there comes to a point when things should just be left as it is. The technology today has allowed us to uncover the wrongs of so many people, thank god. These violations have been going on for centuries but were brushed aside, ignored, others may have disbelieved the victims, etc. People that commit those violations have no limits to a sexual preference. They just do them regardless of gay or straight. I believe that this just opens the door for so many more violators regardless of them being closeted OR not. It might be a different story if the Scouts just got rid of all overnighters all together.

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The main reason people are protesting the gay world is that it’s not natural. Look at nature, people. You know it’s not natural when they need to find a surrogate or females fight over who gets to carry the baby. Oh, and no, gays shouldn’t be allowed into the scouts. Kids under a certain age don’t understand sexuality yet and should be protected.

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I’m completely ok with this because if the outed gay individual also happens to be a pedophile I imagine they would think twice before taking on the role of a leader of young children because of the increased level of scrutiny that will naturally be placed upon them. Think about it, that person wouldn’t be able to breath without someone else taking notice of it. They will be under a microscope.

It’s the pedophiles that are not out of the closet that you STILL have to worry about.

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What a sick country we live in evidenced by this organization and several of the comments presented here. If this “private organization” expects to survive and obtain funding from governmental agencies, corporations, and free thinking individuals, they need to evolve faster than they have been. Proposing a “separate but equal” policy is not only not a joke, it’s insulting and shows just how much they need to change. And then there is still no mention of accepting Atheists. As for the bible thumpers and others out there, I am sorry for your continued losses, but you better get used to it, because there is no stopping inclusion and equality. It’s the American way. Take it or leave it

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Chuck, I am not sure what America you are referring to. Listen to the hate in your comments. Your opinion is the only one that matters to you. You are unable to listen to any other opinions but your own. Does it even occur to you that other people might disagree with you, which should be perfectly fine. Your belief that everyone should change their beliefs to match yours is not the American way.

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No.. I disagree, not because a gay scoutleader is more apt to commit a crime, but lets be objective. At some point, the gay scoutleader suffered through a sexual orientation crisis, and ultimately discovered his gayness. Is it fair to the children to possibly be placed in the care of someone who may promote that lifestyle….here’s my theory, young men experience a brief period of nervousness and shame when they begin to recognize attraction to the opposite sex, you know the, “I don’t like that stupid girl Phase”…Is fair to the child to have that Gay leader say, “its okay if you like boys, you can be with boys” when the child is that impressionable.

This a Nature vs. Nuture issue, I do not believe its natural to be gay, but over time, I have thought maybe it could be, doesn’t matter for me; but there is certainly a risk of these impressionable children being nurtured toward homosexuality.

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TechMom,

As the father of an Eagle Scout, I feel the opposite about this than you do. Every Scout is asked to state and live to the Scout Oath which states that they will be morally straight. How can any Scout, much less their leaders, honestly live up to and repeat this oath while allowing immoral homosexual people into the Scouting organization? I think the BSA leadership is giving up its morals while trying to be “politically correct.” If the BSA goes forward with this, it will cheapen and denigrate the oaths, services, and work of all who have gone forth before trying to maintain this oath.

I held out hope that the BSA would take the high road and keep up their moral position. Unfortunately, they seem to be lowering themselves and taking the less “painful” political position. I think it shows the boys that their leaders don’t have what it takes to fulfill the Scout oath. So, how can such leaders in turn expect the boys to fulfill it? It is totally betraying those who want to stay in scouting and stay morally straight.

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@Bobo Being gay does not make someone a pedophile. And considering the systemic abuse of boys in BSA already (with an existing ban against homosexuals in place) your argument doesn’t hold up. I think some of you really need to do a quick bit of research into child molestation statistics. I think the reality would really shock your senses.

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realistically, this has been the unofficial policy for years. there are plenty of people in scouts who follow the scouting stuff, and leave the ‘policies’ for the ‘organization’ and ignore them accordingly. It’s a big step to come out and say that.
No one is shoving any agenda down anyone else’s throats – the org. is just saying that it is okay to have gay people involved. I mean, what do you do for kids with gay parents? According to the ‘old’ policy – the kids weren’t allowed to join. Of course, individual troops ARE allowing them there. But how do you say to a kid – who probably isn’t gay, but might not know, but who cares – that they can’t join a group because the group doesn’t like the parents? What are you teaching there?

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@ATL Born and Raised – “The issue becomes that an increasing number of people do not view homosexually as immoral.”

Since when does majority rule when it comes to sin? Sodom and Gomorrah had the majority also. Guess where those cities are now?

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@Oboma is Wrong – We obviously interpret “Morally Straight” differently. Morally, *I* think the right thing to do is to accept people for who they are while you are applying your ideas of morality to sexual orientation. Yes I struggle with how to reconcile my belief that homosexuality is Biblically wrong while still wanting to “love my neighbor as myself.” But at the end of the day, I don’t think it’s my place to judge someone solely for their sexual orientation. I may judge whether to allow someone to be a leader in our troop based on that person being a good leader, his/her actions, demeanor and character but that’s it. Quite frankly, there are plenty of straight people I don’t want as leaders in our troop and so I don’t ask them to be.

I think you also need to consider that it’s not like you’re going to have every gay man in America show up at your next Scout meeting demanding to be a leader! Get a grip people. This is about ending outright discrimination, not opening your door to pedophiles.

For all those people leaning on the Bible as an excuse to continue your argument for discrimination, I suggest you read this article about Dan Cathy. We should strive to be Chrst-followers like him:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shane-l-windmeyer/dan-cathy-chick-fil-a_b_2564379.html

‎”In the end, it is not about eating (or eating a certain chicken sandwich). It is about sitting down at a table together and sharing our views as human beings, engaged in real, respectful, civil dialogue. Dan would probably call this act the biblical definition of hospitality. I would call it human decency. So long as we are all at the same table and talking, does it matter what we call it or what we eat?”

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The way certain (typically) conservative people talk about homosexuality, it sounds like you sit around having sex all day and all night, and only ever think about sex, and only ever talk about sex. sex, sex, sex, sex, sex.
Now, unless you are in a naked heterosexual orgy 24/7, you are doing other things from time to time, like work, commuting, movies, dinner, walking, laundry, sleep, clipping your finger nails, ya know, stuff that is not having sex. Now why don’t you seem to understand that homosexuals are exactly the same as you (just that they statistically tend to have more education, more money, and better fashion sense). Why all the hate? You jealous?

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I believe it’s the MAIN goal of EVERY gay man to become a scout leader, so they can make all the boys gay too..they have no where else to turn. Its in the Gay handbook. Become a Scout leader, take the little boys into the woods and corrupt them. Yup, that’s it….at least all the gays I know are doing this. Must be a new trend.

REALLY???? Is that what gays do? Try to make everyone else gay???? Not the ones I know……

Whatever happened to Live and Let Live???? So you don’t like someone’s sexual orientation, don’t ask them. But to judge someone becuase of their sexual orientation is beyond me. Are they a productive member of society. Do they contribute to the economy????? I guess if you don’t like gays, you should turn off the tv, the music, don’t go to any theatrical production, and stay the hell away from Gay Pride parades.

Some VERY closed minded people in this blog today……

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I’d sooner send my son off on a camping trip into the woods with an admitied homosexual scout leader than I would on a trip with the typical closeted pedo from a church. The amount of pedos hiding behind church ministries and youth groups is what people need to start having a dialog about.

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It’s time. Their current policy has really prevented nothing and puts churches such as the UCC, Lutheran and Episcopal in a real bind.

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(By saying they “defend your right to hate and be a bigot”… I meant to mention how they fight and die for this nation…and always have since the America Revolution). Sad you’re too blind with hate to care.

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I am also the parent of a Scout who is almost an Eagle. I have to agree with Obama is Wrong and disagree with Techmom. Scout is NOT about sexuality, and whether you like it or not, admitting openly gay Scouts into the organization opens the door to the issue of sex and distracts from the goals of Scouting. Not only that, but it can only be the camel’s nose under the tent. New problems and lawsuits will arise from it; someone will get offended that they are not allowed to do something or wear something. Are there gay Scouts? Of course, and they are welcomed and respected. But it is a subject that is not inquired into or discussed. It has no place in Scouting. And there absolutely should not be any gay Scout leaders. The reasons for that should be obvious. It would be akin to having a straight man spend the night with Girl Scouts. Nothing might happen, but plenty could happen, and it defies common sense. The word “discrimination” has become pejorative, but people tend to forget that it also means to make sensible decisions and judge wisely.

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Why is the word hate always used by the left to describe someone who has a different opinion. BSA is a private organization that began on Christian principles. People on this board who describe those beliefs as mythology and man made gods should not even be commenting on this subject.(Not to mention it is very insulting to anyone who believes in that “mythology”)
If you do not like these principles then start a new Scout organization that is built around a different set of principles. I promise not to interfere and try to change your beliefs in the name of progress.
People in this country need to stop trying to force their change on others. Not agreeing with the homosexual lifestyle is not against the law nor is it “wrong”. It is an opinion, which by definition is open to debate and is neither right or wrong.

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Saul,

Where exactly did I say I hate homosexuals? I don’t think I did. I simply choose to separate myself from them and my children when and where I can. That is not hate, that is discretion and free will.

I believe in good and evil. I believe that God has given us a roadmap for our lives in the form of the Holy Bible, and that it is God’s word. I believe (like TechMom) that homosexuality is a sin and we should separate ourselves from it where possible, but especially separate our children from it as they are young, impressionable.

On the contrary, like TechMom I believe and have been raised to love everyone. Does that mean accepting everything that everyone does is right? Of course not. I had an alcoholic father who beat me, my Mom, and my brother. Did I love him? Yes, because that is what the Bible tells us to do. I go to an intown church with a lot of homosexuals. I believe the church is there to serve as a hospital for sinners and not a museum for saints. I am a sinner just as those homosexuals are, but I assume we are all there for the same reason, to know God better and to try and live our lives with less sin. Now, does that mean I would allow my child to be taught Sunday School by one of our homosexual members? Probably not, just as I wouldn’t have wanted my children to drive with my father. You don’t knowingly put children into risky or potentially risky situations they can’t handle and shouldn’t be expected to handle.

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YES. About time. As a parent who is heavily involved in this organization I applaud the BSA.

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HOW do you shelter your child from homosexuals? THEY ARE EVERYWHERE? They are probably in your, GASP, schools, teaching your children. Would you NOT allow your kid to go on a class field trip if the teacher was gay?

Why are you AFRAID of gays? they can’t gay you up…it’s not contagious.

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Mayhem, do you understand that BSA is founded on Christian principles. If you do not like or agree with that then start your own organization. Why force us to change our principles?
I think you are also exaggerating the amount of gay people in our society. If you look at most studies it puts it between 5 and 10 percent. Don’t quote the Kinsey study because it was done using prison population which has a higher percentage of homosexual behavior.

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Saul,

As a parent I can only do the best I can. I can teach my child right from wrong, and try to teach them to not put themselves into a potentially harmful or sinful scenario. I can try to monitor/control the situation as best I can and pray that God keeps them out of harm’s way.

You are right, they are everywhere and I wish society would invoke more controls to keep them out of scouts, coaching, teaching, etc. that exposes them to children. I think homosexuals should be institutionalized and counseled and not roaming freely. they are afflicted and should be healed. I don’t believe that they should be allowed to have children as I see that as child abuse (not necessarily physical abuse but emotional/mental abuse).

I definitely don’t believe in gay marriage or gay unions. Now, I believe is your que for telling me I hate homosexuals and I would again direct you to my earlier response. Thinking someone is sick, afflicted, sinful does not mean I hate them. On the contrary, I want them to be healed so they can live a more meaningful and godly life.

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Mayhem, you are so full of prejudice. You do not know what I look like yet you have many prejudged assumptions about me. I do not mind what an individual does in his free time. Live and let live. I do mind someone’s opinion being forced on me and my private organization.
Would you tell the members of a science fiction club that captain Kirk is not real or would you go to an atheist convention and demand that they worship allah.
You need to argue your point with common sense and not so much passion. It only makes your argument less convincing and just more hateful.

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@Obama – ” I think homosexuals should be institutionalized and counseled and not roaming freely. they are afflicted and should be healed.”

That’s just about the saddest thing I have ever read.

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Loyal Scout…know what else was founded upon “christian principles” (and who still says that they follow their guidlines)…??? The KKK.

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sharing with us what he knows
shining eyes are big and blue
and all around him water flows
this world to him is new
this world to him is new
to touch a face
to kiss a smile
new eyes see no race
the essence of a child
the essence
he’s born to shimmer, he’s born to shine
he’s born to radiate
he’s born to live, he’s born to love
but we’ll teach him not to hate
true love it is a rock
smoothed over by a stream
no ticking of a clock
truly measures what that means
truly measures what that means
and this thing they call our time
heard a brilliant woman say
she said you know it’s crazy
how I want to try to capture mine
I think I love this woman’s way
I think I love this woman’s
way she shimmers, the way she shines
the way she radiates
the way she lives, the way she loves
the way she never hates
sometimes I think of all of this that can surround me
I know it all as being mine
but she kisses me and wraps herself around me
she gives me love, she gives me time
and I feel fine
I feel fine
but time I cannot change
so here’s to looking back
you know I drink a whole bottle of my pride
and I toast to change
to keep these demons off my back
just get these demons off my back
cause I want to shimmer, I want to shine
I want to radiate
I want to live, I want to love
I want to try to learn not to hate
try not to hate
we’re born to shimmer, we’re born to shine
we’re born to radiate
we’re born to live, we’re born to love
we’re born to never hate

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Saul good – You are comparing the KKK (which was founded by southern democrats) to the Boy Scouts of America. That is laughable at best.
I believe the ACLU has recently defended the KKK because they also have a right to their beliefs. I do not agree with them, but I have no right to tell them what to believe especially if they aren’t breaking the law.
Try again.

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@Obama Is Wrong: Here’s the thing: You can’t influence someone to become a homosexual any more than you can influence a homosexual to be aroused by someone of the opposite sex. It doesn’t work that way. You can’t “catch” it like a disease. It’s a fundamental part of what makes that person who they are, just like blue eyes or a funny-looking nose. Gays don’t threaten anyone, although I think it’s amusing how many men are made uneasy around gay men, because they’re afraid that all gay men want to nail them. No one growing up suddenly decides, “Hey, I know, I’ll be gay! That’s the ticket!”

I dislike promiscuous gay lifestyles. I also dislike promiscuous heterosexual lifestyles — basically, I consider sex as part of a higher plane of a committed, monogamous relationship instead of as a recreational pastime. I would far more question the influence of an adulterer who cheats on their spouse and family on a young man than I would a man who happened to be gay, and is in a relationship that is respectful, committed and monogamous.

BTW, Lord Baden-Powell did NOT form Boy Scouts as a Christian organization. He was very careful to stipulate that Scouting did not hold one set of beliefs as central as opposed to another, thus the vague “Duty to God”. Even his tombstone doesn’t carry a cross. Instead, it carries a circle with a dot in the middle — a trailblazing sign for “Going Home”. The World Scouting Organization simply asks for an adherence to a spiritual belief and principles, and certainly does not specify Christianity.

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People in this country need to stop judging everyone and leave each other alone. If someone wants to be gay, fine with me. I and no one else really knows who is going to hell or heaven, so the religious people on this board need to drop the righteous crap. It doesn’t help the argument to let the BSA run their organization however they see fit.

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I hear the Scouts are going to institute a policy of not allowing blacks to be Scouts – about time, I might add.

They should also not allow Jews in there either.

They are a private organization and should be free to exclude whomever they want.

(Just to make sure people understand, this is written tongue-in-cheek).

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DB,

Ahh, the gay won’t turn you into a homosexual argument. I’m not a doctor, psychologist, or anything approaching someone who understands what does/does not make someone gay. To me, it doesn’t matter. God has told us that it is abdominable in his eyes so why should it matter whether it can be transmitted or not? It is wrong. I don’t have to know any more than that, not why it is wrong, or when is became wrong, or if it will ever not be wrong. That is for the Father, not me, to decide. As a Christian it is simply enough to separate ourselves from it to the best we can. Just like I won’t associate with a prostitute unless it is to try and help her to see the immorality of her ways. Some will listen, others won’t.

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Parent – You don’t get it. If the BSA wants to exclude anyone, it is their right. Who do you think should force them to include everyone that you wish, the government?
Try to remember that we live in a free country and it is not the place of the government to make sure that no one is excluded from anything.
People with the same beliefs are free to associate with others who share the same beliefs. Didn’t we form this country to escape a government (Great Britain) that was persecuting us and telling us what to believe.

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@Loyalscout – The government isn’t forcing the BSA to reconsider this policy; public opinion, member protests, board members and dwindling support have brought the BSA back around to examining whether this policy is a good one or not.

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As a Christian, heterosexual Mom of a young boy, I have avoided joining the Boy Scouts because of this issue. We were weighing the decision when the news came out about the refusal to give Ryan Andresen his hard-earned Eagle Scout badge, even though his Scoutmaster supported him getting the badge and knew of his sexuality and had assured him he would be able to get it. What does this say to a young person – work hard and achieve much in your teenage years, spend time helping the community, etc. (instead of getting into trouble with alcohol, drugs, etc.) and then withholding that badge. That was just horrible. (That action by the Boy Scout organization higher-ups does not match up with what I was taught about the principles of how to treat others and the lessons of Jesus Christ). I was encouraged to hear that dozens and dozens of Eagle Scouts offered their badges to Ryan.

My father was a Scoutmaster and my brother was an Eagle Scout. And, I have wished we could participate. With this change, perhaps we will one day. This change is a step in the right direction.

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I wasn’t aware of Ryan Andresen, so I Googled and found out what happened. This young man chose to make a calculated political move and “come out” despite knowing that this was against Scouting rules. He created this distraction knowingly and with a specific purpose. Why did he do what he did if not to further his own agenda. Actions have consequences, and in the business world I would not hire someone like him, knowing he will apply his own rules and ignore the ones he doesn’t care for. He may be a hard worker, but he doesn’t adhere to what he signs up for.

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@ Scrivener – So, you would prefer your son or daughter to hide and not speak out about being bullied or mistreated? That kind of silence is what led to years of abuse by people like Sandusky. I would support any teen who speaks out from their heart about abuse, bullying, or neglect. I hope when my son is a teen, he will speak out about bullying and injustice. If people didn’t stand up for what is right, we would have had many more years of death under leaders like Hitler. Instead, you suggest people hide and keep quiet, lie and be dishonest. What a lesson to teach your children!

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Coming out as gay and standing up against bullying are two distinct things, as you know, Ann. My son is a defender of people who are bullied. He also has a gay friend who he would defend if necessary. They are friends even though this boy knows my son doesn’t approve of his lifestyle.

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@ Scrivener – Percentages are reported ranging from 2,3, 4 percent and up to 10 percent. It is difficult to get exact numbers of the gay population, as most of these studies are telephone surveys, which are not very valid, as a lot of people “hang up” and you are only measuring those willing to talk on the phone to a survey taker (people who are not busy, lonely people who will talk to anyone). This is not exactly a true random sampling.

So, if the percentage is as low as you say 2 or 3 %, that is quite rare. And, of those, they are certainly not all interested in being a Scout or a Scout leader. So, the chance that your child would even encounter a gay scout leader or member must be really, very rare then. It must be, like, one in a thousand odds are something. So, why the worry?

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Why the worry, Ann? Because predators find situations where they can find victims. Scouting is a perfect situation for an abuser, as has been demonstrated by past history.

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Ann, you clearly know little about Scouting. It is virtually impossible to implement to one-adult rule you’re advocating. There are way too many hikes, camp-outs, bathroom trips and other situations where people are separated for myriad reasons. Your comments about reporting bullying make no sense. I’m sorry, they just don’t. There are plenty of people a Scout could and would counsel with about their sexuality without involving a Scouting leader. Involving the Scouting official would put them in an unfair position unnecessarily.

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@ Scrivener – My family growing up was heavily involved in scouting – both Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. I was in Girl Scouts. My father was a Scoutmaster for many years. My brother was an Eagle Scout. Most kids old enough to be on a camp-out would not need an adult to go into the bathroom with them. Most troops we were involved in had several leaders and volunteer parents on outings. If Scouts want to continue to have volunteer leaders, they need to minimize liability and have standard policies. Yes, there will be an occasional time when you can’t maintain the rule; but, I would think any parent volunteer would want to have more than one parent or leader supervising at all times, for basic safety reasons.

As far as saying all the rules of the Bible should be followed and people should not “pick and choose”, the Bible is filled with outdated laws and rules. Here’s just a few of the laws in the Bible: You can’t eat pig or seafood. Can’t cut your hair or beard in a rounded manner. Can’t have tattoos. Can’t remarry after divorce. If a child curses their mother or father, they are to be killed. A daughter found not to be a virgin must be stoned by the men in the town. Women must not speak in church. You must not work on a Saturday or you shall be put to death. Just a few. To say you don’t “pick and choose” is not being honest about the Bible and how it applies to modern life.

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Ann,

You are right about one thing, it is probably good that we never meet. I believe that god calls us to be resolute in our faith and obedience to his word. So called Christians who are more concerned about hurting someone’s feeling or exposing children to immoral behavior do not seem to follow god’s word. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I wholeheartedly disagree with you and others like you. You call me extreme, but what is extreme about being faithful?

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@Obama Is Wrong

It’s because of people like you that the church is losing patrons. Please stop pretending that you know me.

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@ Obama is wrong – My Christian beliefs are not about avoiding hurting people’s feelings. The God I worship is a loving God. I focus my displeasure on those who truly do harm to others – physically or through words. A homosexual person who loves someone of the same gender falls under the category of being a loving, human being, in my Christian faith and how I was taught growing up in a Southern Methodist mainstream church. I do not recall Jesus ever saying “Let’s round up the homosexuals and keep them separate from us.” He mingled with all, was gentle and loving in his dealings with all. I follow his example in my daily path.

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@Voter and @Obama is wrong. When you “separate” yourselves from people, you label it as “free choice.” I label it as “intolerant.” Should women who’ve had abortions not be allowed to be Girl Scout leaders?

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Ann, you are referring to the Jewish laws of the Old Testament in regard to the purity codes. Those codes don’t apply to Christians and are forgiven by Christ in the New Testament. You and many others put great emphasis on treating others as they would treat you and not judging others, but it is just as important that we are commanded to repent of our sins – to go and sin no more, as Christ said. That’s the part that lots of people want to overlook. You speak of harming others. Encouraging sin is a harmful thing for anyone to do, especially someone who considers themselves a Christian.

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“bigotry is on the way out” ? More name calling. The world is becoming more secular unfortunately, and people are doing whatever makes them feel good. Go with popular culture if you wish, but as someone else pointed out, on the last day we are all accountable.

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The Boy Scouts is a PRIVATE organization. Period. What they choose to do and who they allow in either as a scout or a counselor is THEIR business and nobody else’s. They have a responsibility to insure the safety of others they take temporary charge of (camping, etc.) but nothing else. Parents need to decide for themselves whether the scouts are right for their boys (and girls) and act accordingly. Parents think nothing of turning their children over to the government every single week day of their childhoods while sexual predators occupy positions of authority, violence, gangs, drugs, etc. run rampant and the education (if you want to call it that) is substandard.

Maybe parents should care more about the horrible government prisons they send their kids to every day and worry less about the sexual orientation of the guy leading the scout troop for the few hours they spend in his company.

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Jake, Yes the fight for civil rights for blacks and gays are not equal. That is clear. You can marry whomever you want, you can serve openly in the military for many years, you can’t be fired from a job in most states because you are black, you can join the boy scouts, you can flaunt your lifestyle with pictures of your family on your desk at work, you can’t be jailed or killed in many countries because of your lifestyle, you don’t have to face day to day open discrimination because when people see you they know you are black and won’t be able to assume you are not, so won’t openly bash your lifestyle/race directly in your face. Yes, we have different pigmentation and different DNA. Sometimes it’s harder when it’s hidden inside. I appreciate your belief in civil unions, but separate but equal isn’t equal and doesn’t cut it (remember water fountains, buses, cafeterias, segregated schools)?. How about we have people voting on black marriages (or interracial marriages “the downfall of civilization as we knew it”)? Maybe civil unions for them would be just fine? Maybe individual scout troops or sponsors can decide if they want to allow blacks in their troops? It’s a private organization you know. Shouldn’t the majority have their way? Why should government be involved? Why should a minority expect civil rights to be forced upon everyone? Pigmentation makes a difference? Yes, I guess it does. You don’t have to wait years for closeted blacks to come out as acceptable successful role models for society to understand that not all blacks/gays are out to destroy their kids, neighborhoods, just live for self gratification or whatever. Give the scouts free rental use of public spaces, charitable donations, etc. and let them do whatever they want? Would it bother you if you read comments stating if the scouts allow blacks I’m pulling out my kid immediately? Who would want a black or a pedophile or a sinner, for a leader of their kids? Of course the irony of the statements referring to morality issues in the organized religions or the scouts is astounding to read in and of itself. And let’s leave it up to the individual states. You can marry (same race/interracial, same-sex) in some states that won’t be recognized in others (if you want your marriage to be recognized just stay in states that recognize it!) Driving? Just drive in states that recognize your license is valid and stay out of the others! Taxes, benefits, etc? Let’s see, if my spouse lives in California it’s one set of rules, if in Georgia another, on the Federal level another still? Thankfully we are getting equal treatment. It’s long past due. You should be thankful your civil rights came earlier than ours.

As for Bobo’s comments I can’t wait till he flys into SFO Harvey Milk International and sees a real parade and celebration. I guess he thinks MLK holiday should be abolished as well as any MLK parades. Why celebrate diversity, equality, and progress if we can promote ignorance and hatred instead? Here’s to an even brighter future for us all coming very soon!

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The Boy Scouts have been around for many, many years but this could very well be the beginning of the end. With all that’s going on, it could also mean the end of this country in just a short time.

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The BSA should not discriminate against boys, unless any boy is advocating sexual activity prior to marriage (homosexual or heterosexual). With regard to leaders, Father Bernard Groeschel of Westchester County New York, the Catholic Church’s expert on abuse in the Catholic Church, says that 90 percent of the abuse by Catholic priests is done by homosexuals who constitute 10 percent of the Catholic clergy. That means that homosexual priests abuse 81 times as frequently as heterosexual priests. The BSA should retain current policy on adult leaders!

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@ Private Property Rights – You are right that the Boy Scouts are a private organization that can make their own decisions regarding membership. And, apparently, they have done so with this recent change. As there were board members, regional and local members, and Scouts that sought this change from within.

A more important question for me and one that occurred here in Georgia, is the cover-ups and lack of transparency regarding past Scout abusers. That it was a different time period, when things were “hush-hush” is no excuse. Bystanders, witnesses, and those who know abuse is occurring who do not protect children is one of the worst types of sin in my book.

Here in Georgia, how could a Baptist pastor in Athens, who later became the Executive Director of the Georgia Baptist Convention for many years, “not” report to the police repeated abuse by the local boy scout leader, who was also a church member and “upstanding” citizen of Athens? He passed the buck (in a Joe Paterno manner) to others in his church to talk to the accused leader. He knew the abuser kept an apartment for this purpose. Many boys were abused over the years as a result. Is it not the province of pastors to protect children from “known” abusers? That is where the focus should be, not on excluding whole classes of people, as there are a percentage of pedophiles in all groups. Details are at: http://www.ajc.com/news/news/in-scouts-sex-abuse-scandal-dark-secrets-for-a-mod/nSwxL/

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I understand how people are against the BSA changing this policy and up until ten years ago I would have been too. I had this same attitude, I don’t want my son spending time with a gay male, they may get tainted. Then I had five close cousins reveal that they were gay and then worked with three male co-workers, my attitude changed.

Let’s look at this as these “gay men” being individuals’ when we do this don’t they deserve to be treated as every other individual? When we let our views effect our speech and communication with the “gays” aren’t we dehumanizing them as humans. A statement I recently read in Ethics in Human Communication, 6th edition states the following;” A technique that dehumanizes, makes a person less than human is unethical.” I believe that we can argue that our statements here and the policy of not allowing “gays” in organizations is dehumanizing them. That is probably something that we haven’t thought of it isn’t it.

The other point that I would like to bring up is a simple one, most “gays” are not predators, just like most straight people are not. The stereotype is that they are or that they will influence another child, it doesn’t work that way. They are individuals with respect for children and people. The homosexuals that I know, are more respectful than most “straight” people.

I think that BSA needs to have policies in place if the do change their policy and the board will need to decide how they can do that ethically. Everyone needs to have their eyes open but understand these are individuals that are normal in every aspect.
Cheryl

Works Cited
Johannesen R., Valde, K, Whedbee, K. Ethics in Human Coummunication, 2006, sixth edition

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