Boy Scouts may soon give sponsors authority to allow gay leaders, members: Do you agree?
The Boy Scouts of America may soon give local sponsors the authority to decide whether to allow gays as scouts and leaders.
From The Associated Press via The Washington Post:
…Under the change now being discussed, the different religious and civic groups that sponsor Scout units would be able to decide for themselves how to address the issue — either maintaining an exclusion of gays, as is now required of all units, or opening up their membership.
Gay-rights activists were elated at the prospect of change, sensing another milestone to go along with recent advances for same-sex marriage and the end of the ban on gays serving openly in the military.
However, Southern Baptist leaders — who consider homosexuality a sin — were furious about the possible change and said its approval might encourage Southern Baptist churches to support other boys’ organizations instead of the BSA.
Monday’s announcement of the possible change comes after years of protests over the no-gays policy — including petition campaigns that have prompted some corporations to suspend donations to the Boy Scouts.
Under the proposed change, said BSA spokesman Deron Smith, “the Boy Scouts would not, under any circumstances, dictate a position to units, members, or parents.”
Smith said the change could be announced as early as next week, after BSA’s national board concludes a regularly scheduled meeting on Feb. 6. The meeting will be closed to the public.
The BSA, which celebrated its 100th anniversary in 2010, has long excluded both gays and atheists. Smith said a change in the policy toward atheists was not being considered, and that the BSA continued to view “Duty to God” as one of its basic principles.
Protests over the no-gays policy gained momentum in 2000, when the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the BSA’s right to exclude gays. Scout units lost sponsorships by public schools and other entities that adhered to nondiscrimination policies, and several local Scout councils made public their displeasure with the policy.
More recently, pressure surfaced on the Scouts’ own national executive board. Two high-powered members — Ernst & Young CEO James Turley and AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson — indicated they would try to work from within to change the membership policy, which stood in contrast to their own companies’ non-discrimination policies.
Amid petition campaigns, shipping giant UPS Inc. and drug-manufacturer Merck announced that they were halting donations from their charitable foundations to the Boy Scouts as long as the no-gays policy was in force.
Also, local Scout officials drew widespread criticism in recent months for ousting Jennifer Tyrrell, a lesbian mom, as a den leader of her son’s Cub Scout pack in Ohio and for refusing to approve an Eagle Scout application by Ryan Andresen, a California teen who came out as gay last fall.
Tyrrell said she’s thrilled for parents and their children who’ve been excluded from scouting and “for those who are in Scouts and hiding who they are.”…
Read more on The Washington Post.
So what do you think: Should the Boy Scouts allow sponsors to decide if gays should be allowed as members or leaders? Should the group just decide overall for everyone? Other thoughts? (Please try to keep it civil.)
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150 comments Add your comment
Obama Is Wrong
January 29th, 2013
12:02 pm
TechMom,
As the father of an Eagle Scout, I feel the opposite about this than you do. Every Scout is asked to state and live to the Scout Oath which states that they will be morally straight. How can any Scout, much less their leaders, honestly live up to and repeat this oath while allowing immoral homosexual people into the Scouting organization? I think the BSA leadership is giving up its morals while trying to be “politically correct.” If the BSA goes forward with this, it will cheapen and denigrate the oaths, services, and work of all who have gone forth before trying to maintain this oath.
I held out hope that the BSA would take the high road and keep up their moral position. Unfortunately, they seem to be lowering themselves and taking the less “painful” political position. I think it shows the boys that their leaders don’t have what it takes to fulfill the Scout oath. So, how can such leaders in turn expect the boys to fulfill it? It is totally betraying those who want to stay in scouting and stay morally straight.
Robert
January 29th, 2013
12:03 pm
I wonder how many people posting on this message board have been in the scouts? Boy Scouts take a vow – to be respectful to other people and to follow directions.
I think people who have a problem with these vows because of religous or other reasons are not being respectful to other people. Allowing gays & lesbians to be Boy Scout and Girl Scout Leaders is the right thing to do. Adults should practice less hatred, fear and bigotry.
The Morman Church is one of the largest Boy Scout sponsors in the USA with over 300,000 Scouts. As a Church they must act like Christ and not like hate filled bigots spreading fear. They should follow the directions of their Morman Bible if they are real Christains following the teachings of Jesus Christ.
ATL Born and Raised
January 29th, 2013
12:03 pm
@Bobo Being gay does not make someone a pedophile. And considering the systemic abuse of boys in BSA already (with an existing ban against homosexuals in place) your argument doesn’t hold up. I think some of you really need to do a quick bit of research into child molestation statistics. I think the reality would really shock your senses.
ATL Born and Raised
January 29th, 2013
12:06 pm
@Obama is Wrong The issue becomes that an increasing number of people do not view homosexually as immoral.
atlmom
January 29th, 2013
12:13 pm
realistically, this has been the unofficial policy for years. there are plenty of people in scouts who follow the scouting stuff, and leave the ‘policies’ for the ‘organization’ and ignore them accordingly. It’s a big step to come out and say that.
No one is shoving any agenda down anyone else’s throats – the org. is just saying that it is okay to have gay people involved. I mean, what do you do for kids with gay parents? According to the ‘old’ policy – the kids weren’t allowed to join. Of course, individual troops ARE allowing them there. But how do you say to a kid – who probably isn’t gay, but might not know, but who cares – that they can’t join a group because the group doesn’t like the parents? What are you teaching there?
Voter
January 29th, 2013
12:33 pm
Why is when you state your opposition against gays that you are labeled “hateful and ignorant”? Since when does disagreeing with gays and gay marriage bring it to that level?
And if losing federal funding is what happens, so be it. Standing up for what’s right is always the best course.
Voter
January 29th, 2013
12:35 pm
@ATL Born and Raised – “The issue becomes that an increasing number of people do not view homosexually as immoral.”
Since when does majority rule when it comes to sin? Sodom and Gomorrah had the majority also. Guess where those cities are now?
Obama Is Wrong
January 29th, 2013
12:37 pm
Atl Born and Raised,
How can any Christian not read the Bible, attend a Bible study, or simply see 2000 years of precedent and not see that homosexuality is immoral? It is like saying that living with someone before you are married isn’t immoral. Lots of people do it, but that in itself doesn’t make it right or moral.
People have to understand that there is evil in this world and yes people do immoral things. It is okay to call them on it, otherwise, the immorality expands and soon we are living in nothing but a sinful, evil, immoral world (similar to what we have now where anything goes as long as it doesn’t negatively affect me personally). Where are our religious leaders (much less our BSA leaders) standing up against the immorality? Is it simply too much trouble to be right and easier to “just get along”? I don’t see how we can honestly stand in front of our children and ask them to do the right thing about anything when we as parents won’t stand up and do the right thing. Much less stand before God one day and try to explain to him why we caved in to evil?
Techmom
January 29th, 2013
12:46 pm
@Oboma is Wrong – We obviously interpret “Morally Straight” differently. Morally, *I* think the right thing to do is to accept people for who they are while you are applying your ideas of morality to sexual orientation. Yes I struggle with how to reconcile my belief that homosexuality is Biblically wrong while still wanting to “love my neighbor as myself.” But at the end of the day, I don’t think it’s my place to judge someone solely for their sexual orientation. I may judge whether to allow someone to be a leader in our troop based on that person being a good leader, his/her actions, demeanor and character but that’s it. Quite frankly, there are plenty of straight people I don’t want as leaders in our troop and so I don’t ask them to be.
I think you also need to consider that it’s not like you’re going to have every gay man in America show up at your next Scout meeting demanding to be a leader! Get a grip people. This is about ending outright discrimination, not opening your door to pedophiles.
For all those people leaning on the Bible as an excuse to continue your argument for discrimination, I suggest you read this article about Dan Cathy. We should strive to be Chrst-followers like him:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shane-l-windmeyer/dan-cathy-chick-fil-a_b_2564379.html
”In the end, it is not about eating (or eating a certain chicken sandwich). It is about sitting down at a table together and sharing our views as human beings, engaged in real, respectful, civil dialogue. Dan would probably call this act the biblical definition of hospitality. I would call it human decency. So long as we are all at the same table and talking, does it matter what we call it or what we eat?”
Big Mama
January 29th, 2013
12:46 pm
Voter & Obama-
If you could make a logical argument that did not rely on biblical mythology, you might be part of a reasoned discussion on this topic. As it is, most people will stop reading your post altogether.
MANGLER
January 29th, 2013
12:53 pm
The way certain (typically) conservative people talk about homosexuality, it sounds like you sit around having sex all day and all night, and only ever think about sex, and only ever talk about sex. sex, sex, sex, sex, sex.
Now, unless you are in a naked heterosexual orgy 24/7, you are doing other things from time to time, like work, commuting, movies, dinner, walking, laundry, sleep, clipping your finger nails, ya know, stuff that is not having sex. Now why don’t you seem to understand that homosexuals are exactly the same as you (just that they statistically tend to have more education, more money, and better fashion sense). Why all the hate? You jealous?
Don Abernethy
January 29th, 2013
1:03 pm
If homosexuality is accepted by the Boy Scouts we will not support them in any way.
Mayhem
January 29th, 2013
1:08 pm
I believe it’s the MAIN goal of EVERY gay man to become a scout leader, so they can make all the boys gay too..they have no where else to turn. Its in the Gay handbook. Become a Scout leader, take the little boys into the woods and corrupt them. Yup, that’s it….at least all the gays I know are doing this. Must be a new trend.
REALLY???? Is that what gays do? Try to make everyone else gay???? Not the ones I know……
Whatever happened to Live and Let Live???? So you don’t like someone’s sexual orientation, don’t ask them. But to judge someone becuase of their sexual orientation is beyond me. Are they a productive member of society. Do they contribute to the economy????? I guess if you don’t like gays, you should turn off the tv, the music, don’t go to any theatrical production, and stay the hell away from Gay Pride parades.
Some VERY closed minded people in this blog today……
Mayhem
January 29th, 2013
1:09 pm
And just like the comedian Angelah Johnson – “Every girl needs a gay guy friend. When getting ready to go out, and you can’t decide on an outfit, you go with your gut, or you go with your gay.”
Saul Good
January 29th, 2013
1:21 pm
I’d sooner send my son off on a camping trip into the woods with an admitied homosexual scout leader than I would on a trip with the typical closeted pedo from a church. The amount of pedos hiding behind church ministries and youth groups is what people need to start having a dialog about.
Obama Is Wrong
January 29th, 2013
1:26 pm
TechMom,
Obviously we disagree. I think the focus has to be on the boys that are in the Scouts. To introduce a homosexual boy or leader into the mix, is I think is inviting sin into your lives when it doesn’t have to be. And, once sin is introduced it has a tendancy to expand and to stay. Separate yourself from sin and you are living a more moral life. To me, the so-called “discrimination” aspects are very minor. Of course, I don’t see it as discrimination, just keeping sin/evil away from the boys the same as I wouldn’t want a prostitute to be a Scout Mom, or an atheist to be a Scout leader. Why would I want my child to be exposed to such behavior? As a private organization, I hoped the BSA would make a stand against such behavior. But, they seem to be failing just like many so-called Christian organizations. It all seems to be about not making someone “feel bad” because they are gay. I’m sorry but if you don’t want to feel bad because of your immoral behavior, then change your behavior. I don’t buy the argument, they’re born that way and can’t change. That is like saying my father was born a drunk and can’t change. Ppppttttooooeeeeyy! We each have responsibility for how we act, regardless of how we were born or raised. If I choose to keep my children away from you or your children because of how you behave, I don’t see that as discrimination, that is just good parenting.
Kristen S
January 29th, 2013
1:35 pm
It’s time. Their current policy has really prevented nothing and puts churches such as the UCC, Lutheran and Episcopal in a real bind.
Saul Good
January 29th, 2013
1:38 pm
‘Wrong”… you’re “wrong” about what you posted. Homosexuals are EVERYWHERE whether you like it or not. Your kids are in their presence daily. They teach them…they are at church with them… at the stores you shop in, in every single place you go. They defend your right to “hate” and your right to be a bigot. They are simply sick of being told to hide in the closet. I applaud them for teh strides they are making to being accepted. Discrimination…is it something “your” god (one of the many created by humans) accepts? Did your god condone along with those who wrote his/her story slavery? Yes he/she did condoe slavery…yet do we still have slaves? No we don’t because society realized how wrong it was…same for discrimnation against African Americans…and now finally Homosexuals will get their day. What’s left for you to hate? Those born in Central America and Muslims?
I’m so glad that bigotry like your own is being beat back at a rapid pace these days. It’s taken too long.
Saul Good
January 29th, 2013
1:39 pm
(By saying they “defend your right to hate and be a bigot”… I meant to mention how they fight and die for this nation…and always have since the America Revolution). Sad you’re too blind with hate to care.
Mayhem
January 29th, 2013
1:51 pm
Thank you Saul Good. You put into words what I could not!!!!
Scrivener
January 29th, 2013
1:58 pm
I am also the parent of a Scout who is almost an Eagle. I have to agree with Obama is Wrong and disagree with Techmom. Scout is NOT about sexuality, and whether you like it or not, admitting openly gay Scouts into the organization opens the door to the issue of sex and distracts from the goals of Scouting. Not only that, but it can only be the camel’s nose under the tent. New problems and lawsuits will arise from it; someone will get offended that they are not allowed to do something or wear something. Are there gay Scouts? Of course, and they are welcomed and respected. But it is a subject that is not inquired into or discussed. It has no place in Scouting. And there absolutely should not be any gay Scout leaders. The reasons for that should be obvious. It would be akin to having a straight man spend the night with Girl Scouts. Nothing might happen, but plenty could happen, and it defies common sense. The word “discrimination” has become pejorative, but people tend to forget that it also means to make sensible decisions and judge wisely.
DB
January 29th, 2013
2:01 pm
@Obama is Wrong: I think your comparison of sexual orientation to alcoholism widely misses the mark. There are a lot of “straight” people with the morals of snakes that I wouldn’t shake their hand without counting my fingers when I got it back. Why is homosexuality singled out as such a particularly heineous transgression? A person’s sexual identity seems to be such a fundamental part of their makeup. Sure, a gay person could choose to not engage — in fact, that’s the position of churches who are adamant on the homosexuality questions maintain, that even if you are gay, you shouldn’t act on your impulses. That suggests that no person who is gay should be allowed to experience a loving and fulfilling relationship and are relegated to the fringes of society and doomed to be alone. I mean — daaammmn. That’s pretty harsh, don’t you think, for something that they didn’t ask for in the first place?
There are people who lie, cheat, steal and commit adultery — and yet, THESE people aren’t being tasked with the downfall of marriage and society as we know it. To point to gays and heap them with the blame of all of society’s ills is to deliberately turn away from other far more serious afronts to “morality”.
Loyalscout
January 29th, 2013
2:02 pm
Why is the word hate always used by the left to describe someone who has a different opinion. BSA is a private organization that began on Christian principles. People on this board who describe those beliefs as mythology and man made gods should not even be commenting on this subject.(Not to mention it is very insulting to anyone who believes in that “mythology”)
If you do not like these principles then start a new Scout organization that is built around a different set of principles. I promise not to interfere and try to change your beliefs in the name of progress.
People in this country need to stop trying to force their change on others. Not agreeing with the homosexual lifestyle is not against the law nor is it “wrong”. It is an opinion, which by definition is open to debate and is neither right or wrong.
oneofeach4me
January 29th, 2013
2:04 pm
I really don’t know how I feel about this. My thoughts go in one direction, but my husband, well, he thinks in another. The response of leaving it up to the individual chapters is a good move, yet in still, in order to avoid future lawsuits they will have to set some sort of parameters in place in regards to discrimination. The courts will see the individual chapters as part of a whole…..
That being said, I think what most parents worry about in a scenario such as gay scout leaders is molestation (at least from what I have heard). To those parents I say, just remember…. Sandusky had a wife and did not identify as being gay. Now if it’s due to the parents not wanting their child to spend so much time with a gay man, because they have in their minds what they want their child to be as an adult and feel as though they have to “shelter” them if you will, from negative outside influences that threaten that ideal, then that is their right.
In the end, our kids will grow up to be whomever they will be. We can only guide them, support them, and love them unconditionally.
Obama Is Wrong
January 29th, 2013
2:04 pm
Saul,
Where exactly did I say I hate homosexuals? I don’t think I did. I simply choose to separate myself from them and my children when and where I can. That is not hate, that is discretion and free will.
I believe in good and evil. I believe that God has given us a roadmap for our lives in the form of the Holy Bible, and that it is God’s word. I believe (like TechMom) that homosexuality is a sin and we should separate ourselves from it where possible, but especially separate our children from it as they are young, impressionable.
On the contrary, like TechMom I believe and have been raised to love everyone. Does that mean accepting everything that everyone does is right? Of course not. I had an alcoholic father who beat me, my Mom, and my brother. Did I love him? Yes, because that is what the Bible tells us to do. I go to an intown church with a lot of homosexuals. I believe the church is there to serve as a hospital for sinners and not a museum for saints. I am a sinner just as those homosexuals are, but I assume we are all there for the same reason, to know God better and to try and live our lives with less sin. Now, does that mean I would allow my child to be taught Sunday School by one of our homosexual members? Probably not, just as I wouldn’t have wanted my children to drive with my father. You don’t knowingly put children into risky or potentially risky situations they can’t handle and shouldn’t be expected to handle.
Saul Good
January 29th, 2013
2:30 pm
Wrong… how is it putting your child at risk when he/she already associates with homosexuals? Homsexual doe NOT=Pedophile. Overwhealming that’s done by “straight” men. So what to protect your kids? Keep them away from straight men who are pedophiles.
BShepC
January 29th, 2013
2:37 pm
YES. About time. As a parent who is heavily involved in this organization I applaud the BSA.
Obama Is Wrong
January 29th, 2013
2:46 pm
Saul,
Within the church, I can monitor/control what my child does and does not do with homosexuals. If I don’t want them to attend Sunday School when a homosexual is leading the class I sit them out of the class or request they go to another class. If the BSA allows homosexuals, that forces me to either atttend every meeting/outing or keep my child out of the BSA. As I stated originally, it makes it hard to explain to a child how some scouts/leaders can repeat a scout oath of being morally straight, when it is apparent they aren’t. It basically forces the majority who aren’t gay to “accept” and to respond to the minority who are gay, simply to accommodate them and their beliefs. So, what about my beliefs? Why should they be accommodated and not the majority? The BSA was founded on Christian principles. why is it wrong to simply ask that they continue to enact those principles?
Mayhem
January 29th, 2013
2:47 pm
HOW do you shelter your child from homosexuals? THEY ARE EVERYWHERE? They are probably in your, GASP, schools, teaching your children. Would you NOT allow your kid to go on a class field trip if the teacher was gay?
Why are you AFRAID of gays? they can’t gay you up…it’s not contagious.
Saul Good
January 29th, 2013
2:56 pm
Wrong…and how about those Homosexuals who like MANY in the church…hide in the closet…but again, it’s NOT homosexuals one needs to be afraid of with your children…it’s PEDOPHILES…and they never come out of the closet until they caught. Could be your child’s Sunday school teacher. How would you know?
Loyalscout
January 29th, 2013
2:59 pm
Mayhem, do you understand that BSA is founded on Christian principles. If you do not like or agree with that then start your own organization. Why force us to change our principles?
I think you are also exaggerating the amount of gay people in our society. If you look at most studies it puts it between 5 and 10 percent. Don’t quote the Kinsey study because it was done using prison population which has a higher percentage of homosexual behavior.
Mayhem
January 29th, 2013
3:06 pm
@Loyalscout – yes I understand that. What I don’t understand is your fear of those who are different from you. Scared of blacks? Asians? They’re different than you. I bet you are afraid of women too….they CERTAINLY don’t look like YOU.
What’s the word I’m looking for, oh yea, PREJUDICE. You are pre judging (isn’t that a sin, judge not lest you be judged) someone because they are different than you, so that makes you scared of them, and you keep your kids “sheltered”. Just like when they came over here on the Mayflower, saw the Indians didn’t look like the white folk, so they killed them all off, or relocated them to a tiny “reservation” and kept them in poverty.
My guess, with your homophobia, that you don’t really get out much. Most restaurants have gay waitstaff, most hair stylists are gay, etc. Do you stay at home, and pull the blinds so those who don’t look and think like you don’t exist?
Trust me, your kid has already been exposed to homosexuals…..and it’s YOUR bible that gives you that fear.
Obama Is Wrong
January 29th, 2013
3:14 pm
Saul,
As a parent I can only do the best I can. I can teach my child right from wrong, and try to teach them to not put themselves into a potentially harmful or sinful scenario. I can try to monitor/control the situation as best I can and pray that God keeps them out of harm’s way.
You are right, they are everywhere and I wish society would invoke more controls to keep them out of scouts, coaching, teaching, etc. that exposes them to children. I think homosexuals should be institutionalized and counseled and not roaming freely. they are afflicted and should be healed. I don’t believe that they should be allowed to have children as I see that as child abuse (not necessarily physical abuse but emotional/mental abuse).
I definitely don’t believe in gay marriage or gay unions. Now, I believe is your que for telling me I hate homosexuals and I would again direct you to my earlier response. Thinking someone is sick, afflicted, sinful does not mean I hate them. On the contrary, I want them to be healed so they can live a more meaningful and godly life.
What about atheists?
January 29th, 2013
3:29 pm
The Boy Scouts remain a bigoted organization. They are only doing this because of all the bad publicity they’ve gotten. Unless/until they accept ALL, including atheists, they are not an organization to support.
Loyalscout
January 29th, 2013
3:32 pm
Mayhem, you are so full of prejudice. You do not know what I look like yet you have many prejudged assumptions about me. I do not mind what an individual does in his free time. Live and let live. I do mind someone’s opinion being forced on me and my private organization.
Would you tell the members of a science fiction club that captain Kirk is not real or would you go to an atheist convention and demand that they worship allah.
You need to argue your point with common sense and not so much passion. It only makes your argument less convincing and just more hateful.
Jake-SPJTWB
January 29th, 2013
3:33 pm
I’m not going to read all of this, but lets get this part clear. The Homesexuality and the fight of African-Americans for Civil Rights ARE NOT EQUAL.
As an AA, there is nothing I can do that prevent people from looking at me and knowing I’m Black. If you are gay, I do not have to know that, you may like announcing it, but its not mandatory that I am informed that you prefer same-gender romance. Not the same as my pigmentation announces my blackness. I HATE that comparison!!!
This man’s opinion—the homosexual fight should be to prevent exclusion, not for inclusion. Just Live!! I do not believe in gay marriage, I do believe in a civil union that provides all the same benefits. This a morally charged issue that most on both sides feel strongly about, maybe if the Rainbow community would stop asking for “special treatment” you would get the “equal treatment” you desire.
Mayhem
January 29th, 2013
3:33 pm
@Obama – ” I think homosexuals should be institutionalized and counseled and not roaming freely. they are afflicted and should be healed.”
That’s just about the saddest thing I have ever read.
Loyalscout
January 29th, 2013
3:39 pm
What about atheist? Start an atheist Scout organization. I promise I will not force your organization to believe in God.
Don’t you see? If BSA wants to be a bigoted organization, they have every right to run it that way. We live in a free society. One of the last truly free societies. Don’t ruin it for the rest of us and our children.
Saul Good
January 29th, 2013
3:40 pm
Loyal Scout…know what else was founded upon “christian principles” (and who still says that they follow their guidlines)…??? The KKK.
Loyalscout
January 29th, 2013
3:43 pm
Jake-SPJTWB – Well put.
Shawn Mullins
January 29th, 2013
3:46 pm
sharing with us what he knows
shining eyes are big and blue
and all around him water flows
this world to him is new
this world to him is new
to touch a face
to kiss a smile
new eyes see no race
the essence of a child
the essence
he’s born to shimmer, he’s born to shine
he’s born to radiate
he’s born to live, he’s born to love
but we’ll teach him not to hate
true love it is a rock
smoothed over by a stream
no ticking of a clock
truly measures what that means
truly measures what that means
and this thing they call our time
heard a brilliant woman say
she said you know it’s crazy
how I want to try to capture mine
I think I love this woman’s way
I think I love this woman’s
way she shimmers, the way she shines
the way she radiates
the way she lives, the way she loves
the way she never hates
sometimes I think of all of this that can surround me
I know it all as being mine
but she kisses me and wraps herself around me
she gives me love, she gives me time
and I feel fine
I feel fine
but time I cannot change
so here’s to looking back
you know I drink a whole bottle of my pride
and I toast to change
to keep these demons off my back
just get these demons off my back
cause I want to shimmer, I want to shine
I want to radiate
I want to live, I want to love
I want to try to learn not to hate
try not to hate
we’re born to shimmer, we’re born to shine
we’re born to radiate
we’re born to live, we’re born to love
we’re born to never hate
Obama Is Wrong
January 29th, 2013
3:47 pm
Mayhem,
I’m guessing you aren’t a Christian? You see, I hate homsexuality as it is a sin. I am taught to love the sinner (i.e., the homsexual). Now loving does not mean I should agree with them, especially in regards to promoting, espousing or living a homosexual life. I want what is best for that homosexual. Now the secularists believe what is best for them is to leave them alone and let them continue their sinful ways. A Christian wants them to be freed from their sinful ways so they can lead a more meaningful life and their souls will be blessed. Thus, I want them to be institutionalized and counseled so they can be freed from their sins. Now, how is that sad? what is sad is the people who do not care for that homosexual and don’t care if they are dammed. Let them do what they want, even if it is sinful and an abomination in the eyes of God? That to me is sad. People who are not Christians who don’t care about them is what is sad.
Loyalscout
January 29th, 2013
3:49 pm
Saul good – You are comparing the KKK (which was founded by southern democrats) to the Boy Scouts of America. That is laughable at best.
I believe the ACLU has recently defended the KKK because they also have a right to their beliefs. I do not agree with them, but I have no right to tell them what to believe especially if they aren’t breaking the law.
Try again.
oneofeach4me
January 29th, 2013
3:50 pm
Jake-SPJTWB is on to something.
DB
January 29th, 2013
3:52 pm
@Obama Is Wrong: Here’s the thing: You can’t influence someone to become a homosexual any more than you can influence a homosexual to be aroused by someone of the opposite sex. It doesn’t work that way. You can’t “catch” it like a disease. It’s a fundamental part of what makes that person who they are, just like blue eyes or a funny-looking nose. Gays don’t threaten anyone, although I think it’s amusing how many men are made uneasy around gay men, because they’re afraid that all gay men want to nail them. No one growing up suddenly decides, “Hey, I know, I’ll be gay! That’s the ticket!”
I dislike promiscuous gay lifestyles. I also dislike promiscuous heterosexual lifestyles — basically, I consider sex as part of a higher plane of a committed, monogamous relationship instead of as a recreational pastime. I would far more question the influence of an adulterer who cheats on their spouse and family on a young man than I would a man who happened to be gay, and is in a relationship that is respectful, committed and monogamous.
BTW, Lord Baden-Powell did NOT form Boy Scouts as a Christian organization. He was very careful to stipulate that Scouting did not hold one set of beliefs as central as opposed to another, thus the vague “Duty to God”. Even his tombstone doesn’t carry a cross. Instead, it carries a circle with a dot in the middle — a trailblazing sign for “Going Home”. The World Scouting Organization simply asks for an adherence to a spiritual belief and principles, and certainly does not specify Christianity.
Chaos
January 29th, 2013
3:55 pm
@Obama Is Wrong
Opinions are like nipples, everybody has one. Some have firm points, others are barely discernible through layers, and some are displayed at every opportunity regardless of whether the audience has stated “I am interested in your nipples” or not. Cats have nineteen.
As people can only provide unbiased opinions about things they have no interest in, your zealous fervour regarding homosexuality is understood but misdirected.
I do have a friend who is homosexual and I once asked him “Do you ever think about having sex with me because you are gay?” to which he replied “Do you ever think about having sex with Rosie O’Donnell because you are straight? Same thing.” If I was inclined to have a boyfriend, I would select one my height and weight to save having to readjust the driver’s seat position. I am not interested in doubling my wardrobe as I wear the same outfit everyday to facilitate speedy identification should I ever be in a boating accident.
Although I have never been to a gay club as such, when I was about ten, a friend and I constructed a club house in my backyard using timber stolen from a building site down the street. Our club, which we named ‘The Kiss Club’ due to a certain band being popular at the time, employed an intensive entry exam in which the applicant had to know all the words to Love Gun and not be a girl. As we had no other friends and knew no girls apart from my sister, this made sense at the time. The next day after school, having managed to recruit several new members by promising laminated membership cards and changing the entry exam to ‘knowing the names of the band members’, we all rode to my place to participate in our first club meeting only to discover my sister, outraged by the ‘no girls’ rule and armed with four litres of paint left over from a recent bedroom redesign, had painted the clubhouse pink and added ‘ing’ to the end of the word ‘Kiss’.
Loyalscout
January 29th, 2013
3:57 pm
People in this country need to stop judging everyone and leave each other alone. If someone wants to be gay, fine with me. I and no one else really knows who is going to hell or heaven, so the religious people on this board need to drop the righteous crap. It doesn’t help the argument to let the BSA run their organization however they see fit.
Loyalscout
January 29th, 2013
4:13 pm
Db – You make a good point about the “Duty to God”. BSA does not specify a certain religious belief, but there are many religions in scouting that would be offended by the acceptance of openly gay scout leaders. Many Christian faiths as well as the Muslim faith would not be pleased with this and I believe more then half would leave scouts and form a new organization. It would be the beginning of the end of Lord Bayden- Powells boy scouts around the world.
Parent
January 29th, 2013
4:13 pm
I hear the Scouts are going to institute a policy of not allowing blacks to be Scouts – about time, I might add.
They should also not allow Jews in there either.
They are a private organization and should be free to exclude whomever they want.
(Just to make sure people understand, this is written tongue-in-cheek).
Obama Is Wrong
January 29th, 2013
4:16 pm
Loyalscout,
I am sorry if my posts are the “righteous crap” to which you are referring to. What you and others see as judgemental, I see as distinguishing right from wrong and choosing to follow the right path, not the wrong one. I am afraid that others started attacking me and accusing me of hating homosexuals and that my opinion of homosexuals is sad. I believe I had a right to defend myself. But, you are right the BSA should be allowed to run their organization the way they and their members see fit. If they want to exclude anyone, it should be their right as they are a private organization. If others don’t like the way the BSA runs its organization they can go start another one instead of trying to ruin this one.
As I stated originally, I am the father of an Eagle Scout. I proudly wear the Father’s Pin he gave me at his Eagle Scout ceremony. If the BSA caves to the liberal pressure and allows gays into the BSA, it is not the organization I supported all those years and I will no longer support it or wear my Father’s Pin.