Should cursive still be taught/required at school?
Last night, “The Simpsons” mocked cursive not being taught at schools anymore. Lisa snuck off and Bart wanted to know why. Principal Skinner, Bart, Bus driver Otto and a group of other students followed her to discover her secret. It turns out a former principal was teaching her cursive.
Otto asked don’t they teach that at school? To which Principal Skinner explained that cursive was “outmoded, no room in the budget and all the teachers forgot how to make a Capital Q.”
When I grew up in Gwinnett, I can remember learning cursive from Mrs. Reddick, my third-grade teacher. I loved all the flowing, fancy letters. It made me feel like a grown up and much like Ramona Quimby of the Beverly Cleary books I liked to write my name on every scrap of paper I could find.
Rose was taught cursive it in second grade and then they used some in third grade. When we were still in Georgia, there was a test in fifth grade I believe you had to write in cursive. But I think maybe that stopped being a requirement. (Teachers is it still a requirement? Is it still taught at all?)
In Arizona, they did the cursive practice book in third grade but I don’t think it required or graded beyond that. In fact, his teacher this year encourages types whenever possible.
Does your school teach cursive? If so, what grade? Is there any requirement to use it in class or on state tests? Should it be taught? Is it outmoded?
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103 comments Add your comment
Shannon W
November 12th, 2012
1:47 am
My daughter is learning cursive as a 3rd grader at a Catholic school in Pittsburgh. She enjoys learning it. I think it should still be required.
MattSpeaks
November 12th, 2012
6:33 am
Ive gat a kalqlater 2 do mi math an a computor 4 readin an writin so Y shuld i half to learning to writ in cursaf? thats jus stupid. we dont needin that we jus shuld learning to speek chinaese.
cursaf wuz 2 hard.
Teacher
November 12th, 2012
7:33 am
As a fifth grade teacher, I can state, emphatically, that cursive instruction is no longer needed in the classroom. The time spent teaching cursive would be much better spent teaching keyboarding. When discussing this topic with others, I tend to see more of an emotional response to the demise of cursive instruction verses the practicality of continuing this instruction. Classroom instructional time is already jam packed with core concepts that need to be covered. Cursive writing is simply not on that priority list nor is it useful in today’s technological age. I do, however, write in cursive so that my students can read it. We have a generation of cursive writers that still utilize it. I want my students to be able to read a birthday greeting or letter from their grandparents.
homeschooler
November 12th, 2012
7:43 am
@ Teacher, that was going to be my main point. I worry about kids not being able to read cursive. My teenage niece and my best friend’s teens can not read cursive. I also think kids need to be able to sign their name in cursive. I wonder if today’s kids are all going to print their names on documents? My son spent about two years practicing cursive (home schooled). He was very good at it but never chose to switch his writing on papers etc.. to cursive. He can read it and he signs his name. My daughter is learning it now and I think she will eventually switch and write in cursive. Home schooled girls I know tend to do that more than boys.
I get the emotional response. I hate to see it become a “lost art”. I really think it should be part of every educated person’s life but I do understand that times are changing.
catlady
November 12th, 2012
7:49 am
Theresa, I have never been aware that there was any requirement to write in cursive on any test. I would be thrilled if lower grade teachers would just teach correct printing! We have second, third, and fourth graders whose printing looks like pre-school!
Scrolling back awhile, my mom had elegant cursive handwriting, from both hands! She was a lefty, but was made to write right-handed until my grandmother explained to the teacher that God made her left-handed, not the devil!
Sage
November 12th, 2012
8:01 am
Here’s a thought…..a lot of these children will grow up without having developed a personal signature!
Global Nomad
November 12th, 2012
8:15 am
Our son and daughter, now 18 and 19, never learned cursive. but instead were introduced right to keyboarding in second grade. Today, when their high school teachers and college professors write comments in cursive on their papers, the kids come to us to translate the handwriting! Same with hand-written letters and notes from Grandma and relatives. They might as well be written in Russian as far as our kids are concerned. Also, they never developed the hand muscles needed to write for extended periods of time. Unfortunately, most high school and college exams are not yet computerized, nor is the writing portion of the SAT, which means keyboard kids are currently at a disadvantage compared to their counterparts who learned to write fluently (and legibly) back in elementary school. Although our kids are masters at keyboarding, they are lost with a pen or pencil in hand. Their brains just aren’t wired for it.
Martha
November 12th, 2012
8:25 am
Yes, kids today need to be taught cursive. Are they going to print their names on legal documents? Someone has already touched on a couple of problems–1. the students’ printing is nearly illegible and 2. the need for keyboarding. If teachers/school systems would quit shoving all these “wonderful” software programs down the students’ throats, perhaps the students would not have such horrible habits before keyboarding is taught. Teach keyboarding, yes! But teach it to an age that can master keyboarding, not just pick and peck around. Count the keyboarding grade, just as Language Arts and Math grades are counted. Why have a teacher teach and a child sit in a classroom trying to learn keyboarding and then not count the grade? Why would 99% of the kids try to correctly learn this valuable skill? They don’t. If it “doesn’t count,” the kids and the parents do not see the importance.
27 year MS teacher
November 12th, 2012
8:32 am
Cursive instruction should have never been removed from the curriculum. Not only is there a disconnect in the ability to read and write in cursive, but the increasing fascination with typing, texting, and spell check to save time has also created a generation of learners unable to spell and create coherent sentences.
Parent
November 12th, 2012
8:33 am
I think that students should at least know how to make their signature in cursive. Writig it? No, I think it is outmoded and a waste of time. READING it is another story. There are numerous historical and court documents that are written in cursive and are not “translated”. Even though I was taught writing cursive, reading some of these old documents is a strain. And what about different styles of cursive? How about the ones where an S looks like a F that extends below the line?
malleesmom
November 12th, 2012
8:36 am
I agree w/ Martha’s comment. Cursive still has value. Keyboarding can come later. Didn’t we cover this topic a year or two ago?
Football Widow
November 12th, 2012
8:41 am
Handwriting practice books are sold at Sams, Walmart, and countless other stores. What’s wrong with teaching your child at home? I do not rely on the school system to teach my child everything, like etiquette, proper posture, or nutrition. If you sit down with your child for 30 minutes a day and teach them handwriting, they’ll get it in less than a year.
Zinna
November 12th, 2012
8:56 am
@MattSpeaks
HILARIOUS!
Frederick Douglass
November 12th, 2012
8:57 am
My brother wrote a kid a check for cutting the church’s grass back in the summer, the young man asked him to void the check because it was written in cursive, and he couldn’t read it.
Zinna
November 12th, 2012
8:58 am
Football Widow
Guess what? You better not rely on the school to teach your child a WHOLE LOT MORE than etiquette and nutrition, etc. Sadly, schools only supplement teaching at home.
Voice of Reason
November 12th, 2012
9:05 am
Does anyone remember D’Nealian? I remember learning D’Nealian in Cobb County as it was supposed to help with the transition to writing in cursive. Had to have special paper to write in D’Nealian.
Seriously though, other than signing your name, why would one need to hand write anything anymore? Cursive was designed to help you write faster, you can’t get much faster than typing on a keyboard.
/Outlived its usefulness, Cursive has. Yes.
Old School
November 12th, 2012
9:10 am
Kids definitely should be taught cursive writing. Right after abacus and slide rule instruction. They’ll need it at the buggy whip factory.
Chaos
November 12th, 2012
9:12 am
I’m still pissed they don’t teach Latin anymore. Et tu, cursive, et tu?
I also remember when they told me I couldn’t use a calculator to do math in the real world….LIES! ALL LIES!!!!!
DONNAN OF A NEW ERA
November 12th, 2012
9:17 am
Public education is a total joke. Most kids, nationally, can’t even read and write yet alone do cursive.
DONNAN OF A NEW ERA
November 12th, 2012
9:18 am
“Even though I was taught writing cursive, reading some of these old documents is a strain.”
If you can’t read cursive writing then you have bigger problems.
motherjanegoose
November 12th, 2012
9:19 am
@ Zinna…since teachers now have to teach teeth brushing, hand washing, covering your mouth when you sneeze, shoe tying ( velcro is so much easier for parents), respect, situational awareness, nutrition, manners etc. they are running out of hours in the day. I have heard this called a CONSTIPATED CURRICULUM: more tasks go in and none are eliminated. Parents should be their child’s first teacher but many are not up to the task. If parents taught their children the things I mentioned above, the teachers could do so much more.
I never cared for D’Nelian. I am old school Zane Bloser. I agree that LOTS of time is wasted on cursive instruction but also wonder how children will read documents that are written in cursive and how will you develop your own signature? Will a printed signature count? I have asked a lot of teachers about this and still have no answer.
motherjanegoose
November 12th, 2012
9:24 am
@ Chaos…they teach Latin here in Gwinnett County GA. Both of mine found it useful on the SAT test and they both also took Spanish. Where are you?
@ Donnan…not all cursive looks the same…some handwriting I cannot read and I am a teacher. That word is ILLEGIBLE: not clear enough to be read. Some people have a loopy and twirly hand and some is just sloppy.
Zinna
November 12th, 2012
9:26 am
@Donnan ~Most kids, nationally, can’t even read and write yet alone do cursive.
Or, evidently, use punctuation.
Chaos
November 12th, 2012
9:28 am
Latin is considered extra-curricular. A dead language. You can take it as your language of choice in high school, but unless you plan on going into the medical field, or be a chemist, the interest is relatively low.
guest
November 12th, 2012
9:34 am
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we go ahead and remove the requirement to learn math, spelling, etc while we’re at it. Let’s continue to dumb down the kids. And we wonder why our society continues to get dumber and dumber. Good grief.
jarvis
November 12th, 2012
9:36 am
@TWG, Mrs. Reddick was also my 3rd Grade teacher. I ran into her at Northside Hospital about 8 years when my first child was being born.
She remembered me without me introducing myself…..she looked exactly the same. It was crazy. She still looked 30.
DONNAN OF A NEW ERA
November 12th, 2012
9:42 am
“not all cursive looks the same
Never said it did.
jarvis
November 12th, 2012
9:42 am
@guest, cursive makes you smart? I’ve known many dumb people that could write. I wasn’t aware it was an intelligence differentiator.
For the record, I think teaching it is OK, but I remember it taking up a huge chunk of time in primary school. It does seem like other things probably need to take priority. 2nd grade seemed pretty fluffly….maybe that would be a better grade for it than third.
DONNAN OF A NEW ERA
November 12th, 2012
9:43 am
“Or, evidently, use punctuation.”
Then again, this is a blog.
DONNAN OF A NEW ERA
November 12th, 2012
9:46 am
“Why don’t we go ahead and remove the requirement to learn math, spelling, etc while we’re at it.”
That’s already happening. I went to a retail store a few weeks ago. An employee entered my purchase and when I handed her a 20% off coupon, it wouldn’t scan. Instead of using common sense to take the 20% off the purchase, she had to call up her manager to explain how to take 20% off the purchase.
DONNAN OF A NEW ERA
November 12th, 2012
9:47 am
“Sadly, schools only supplement teaching at home.”
Not meant to be a factual statement.
Zinna
November 12th, 2012
9:50 am
“Sadly, schools only supplement teaching at home.”
Meant as a factual statement.
jarvis
November 12th, 2012
9:51 am
As an FYI, the national literacy rate is 99%.
Chaos
November 12th, 2012
9:52 am
20% is easy, 15% is a pain in the arse.
motherjanegoose
November 12th, 2012
9:56 am
@ DONNAN…my point was that fonts are somewhat consistent. If you cannot read someone’s handwriting ( to me) this does not mean you have bigger problems but perhaps their handwriting is illegible. This is similar to being able to understand people who are supposedly speaking English. I cannot understand some lyrics on the radio or CD of those who are parked next to me at the intersection with their speakers blaring. Perhaps I am the only one.
I do agree with the math skills at the check out. Try handing a clerk $20.06 if the purchase is $16.46. MOST have no idea what to do. Long hand and long math skills are almost gone!
@ jarvis…I recently ran into a Kinder teacher whom I had ( as a student) in Kinder. I recognized her and it took me a minute to remember her name but I did. Too funny. It was so nice to see her! She did not recognize me at first, since I was in one of my costumes and not my $800 suit and $200 shoes.
DONNAN OF A NEW ERA
November 12th, 2012
9:56 am
“Meant as a factual statement.”
Try again, ma’am.
DONNAN OF A NEW ERA
November 12th, 2012
9:57 am
motherjanegoose
Ok.
jarvis
November 12th, 2012
9:59 am
Haha….MJG. Godo for you. I’m sure your student appreciated that.
It meant a lot to me that she remembered my name. At that time, it had been 20 years since 3rd grade.
homeschooler
November 12th, 2012
10:00 am
Montessori schools teach cursive first. I always loved this idea. Developmentally it is easier and more natural for kids to write in curves than straight lines.
jarvis
November 12th, 2012
10:01 am
good not godo….
motherjanegoose
November 12th, 2012
10:05 am
I was wondering what godo meant…thought I might need to add it to the ever growing list of things I DO NOT KNOW. HAHA! Off to the kids…have a nice day all!
guest
November 12th, 2012
10:13 am
Jarvis,
It starts with removing “small” things like cursive and escalates to more important things later.
OK, who forgot...
November 12th, 2012
10:13 am
…to set the blog’s clock forward last week? Probably some techie who cannot do cursive writing…
OK, who forgot...
November 12th, 2012
10:14 am
oops – “clock back” – see, I cannot do cursive , either…
malleesmom
November 12th, 2012
10:19 am
@MJG – you hit the nail on the head; long-hand and long math skills are sadly gone. People need basic skills for when technology fails. I love watching people struggle to make change when their precious keyboarding skills fail. Ever watch people come apart when they have to hand-write a receipt or other documentation. Say what you want about education, basic skills still matter. Teach them at home, at school, doesn’t matter as long as they’re taught.
jarvis
November 12th, 2012
10:26 am
@guest, would you not agree that more important things have arisen than when we were children? For instance, don’t you think that it is more important for a child to practice computer literacy than cursive?
I remember “diagramming sentences” (is that the right term?) in 7th grade for hours on end. This was a total waste of time in my opinion. Learning the parts of speech is important, but I remember getting marked off because I drew a diagonal line in the wrong direction when separating a linking verb from the subject. Apparently it needed to go the other way because it was a standard line. I’m sure at some point that sort of thing seemed important, but over time it gave way to new world skills.
I agree that you don’t want to lose all of the culture of the past (which is what cursive really is), but it has to be put into perspective with how much time it takes, and what the trade off is for classroom time.
Voice of Reason
November 12th, 2012
10:37 am
@Guest
It’s called innovation. It’s how you compete. It’s getting rid of old, obsolete ideas and traditions and replacing them with fresh ideas that focus on speed and accuracy.
If you want to continue to do the same thing over and over again and expect different results, that would be the definition of insanity.
PhotoMomof4
November 12th, 2012
10:40 am
Even though some of my children were taught cursive in school, since it wasn’t required past a certain point, it really just didn’t stick. So, when the 16 year old went to get his driver’s license, we realized he needed to learn to actually ’sign’ his name. We just hadn’t thought about it. We won’t make that mistake with the others. However, all of them can read cursive if written legibly. I know I don’t use it anymore unless I am signing my name.
PhotoMomof4
November 12th, 2012
10:42 am
@Jarvis – I remember diagramming sentences and thinking it was the biggest waste of time. Even today, kids are still doing this and I don’t know why.
Techmom
November 12th, 2012
10:46 am
I think it should be taught but not at length. It is still useful though certainly not to the degree that it was prior to the “information age”. My son is senior and rarely hand writes anything. Much like me, he tends to have a bit of a mixture between print and cursive (seriously, who remembers how to write a cursive capital Q and there are way too many humps in a cursive m). As a lefty, he has always struggled with cursive handwriting and therefore tends to use print much more often so that his teachers can read what he has written. Most of his papers have to be turned in typed though so it’s almost irrelevant at this point.
My biggest beef with education is not cursive but rather not teaching word problems in math and embracing them more fully. Too many kids never do word problems and then freak out when they are given one or two to solve. The whole point of word problems is to show application to real-world situations. A lot of students complain about doing algebra or geometry because they’ll “never use it” but the reality is, if they are given word problems, the application to the real world is intrinsic to the problem.
Twinkletoes
November 12th, 2012
10:49 am
Dear Teacher,
What school did you graduate from that you don’t know the difference between ‘verses’ and ‘versus’? Here is your statement: cursive instruction verses the practicality of continuing this instruction.
I’m glad you’re not teaching MY child!
Cynic
November 12th, 2012
11:12 am
If the logic is that keyboard skills should be taught because that is how everyone “writes” these days, then why not just teach kids how to use a calculator instead of teaching addition, subtraction, division, and multiplication? Any why teach anyone how to use an analog clock since digital is so prevalent?
Our children are uneducated because we have abandoned the basics that worked for hundreds of years. We abandoned phonics and instilled look-say (and created a couple of generations of complete illiterates). We abandoned classical math instruction with “new math” and the outcomes have been horrible. Learning how to read an analog clock helps with fractions (quarter past, half past, etc.) and cursive writing is the foundation of western civilization as documented in classical writings (including the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution). Signing one’s name, reading something someone wrote, etc. are all still critical to getting through life. Why are we even having this discussion?
Maybe the real problem here are the government schools. Rather than fight over what will be mandated by the central bureaucracy, we should instead be asking ourselves why we continue to fund education through force, why we continue to believe that central planning will achieve success (when it never has in history), and why we continue to believe that a system that is based on a value-less, politicized, bureaucratic operational model is one we wish to stake our future and the future of the next generations on. A truly free market in education, in which every parent is responsible for their own child’s education, in which each service provider offers up a curriculum that they feel is best to provide a quality education, and real financial power is restored to parents is really the only solution for our education needs.
DB
November 12th, 2012
11:17 am
There will always be a use for the skills that go into cursive writing. It’s NOT just penmenship, it also trains little fingers in eye-hand coordination and fine motor skills. One does not always have a computer hanging from your belt to help with communication. And, cursive IS faster than printing, which involves lifting the pen from the paper instead of one continuous flow — this will come in useful for note-taking later on in high school and college. (PS: My husband does NOT allow laptops/tablets in his class — they can come prepared to take notes, they have handouts and directed readings/case studies, and he provides them wtih a copy of the Power Point for that day’s class. But he said he was sick of kids who used the laptops for websurfing and FB updates, which seemed to be the primary use in a college classroom, no matter how piously your child tells you that they need it for “taking notes.” The typing is very distracting for students who sit around the surfer and for the professor!)
And until Miss Manners tells me that thank you notes can be emailed, a beautifully written thank you note using pen and paper will always be the sign of a cultured and polite individual. (Of course, Miss Manners/Letitia Baldridge died October 29th, so maybe that will be going out the window, too . . . )
DB
November 12th, 2012
11:24 am
But, then, I’m pretty old school, anyway. I wouldn’t let my kids use a calculator on their homework until they had to buy a scientific calculator for math in high school. They were very annoyed with me — but, by God, they can figure out 35% off in their head when they are in a store, and they don’t need a calculator to figure out the individual cost for an item when it’s sold “2 for $2.95″! And it helped when it came to the SATs, where they could fly throught he basic stuff without wasting time keying it into a calculator. They can also tell immediately if they are not being charged the correct amount at the cashier, because they can figure taxes in their head, etc. — another VERY useful skill, since, as many posters have already mentioned, cashiers are often clueless on whether the transaction they are ringing up actually makes sense!
flapinko
November 12th, 2012
11:27 am
It is going to look like the Beverly Hillbillies when young people have to sign their names to any document…XXXXXXXXX It is a shame that children of today have only a computer to rely upon and not have to use their brains for thinking.
26belly
November 12th, 2012
11:31 am
I’m not an ELA Teacher but in my middle school environment, I’ve had droves of students beg to be taught cursive writing. No, its not part of common core, district curriculum, or whatever but its something tangible and useful to the students which they can use in their daily lives.
On the flip side…I don’t have to use coded notes to other Teachers. I just write in cursive (students can’t read it!
old timer
November 12th, 2012
11:45 am
I noticed none of you wrote in cursive for your response. Doesn’t this answer your question.
no
November 12th, 2012
11:46 am
Haha you people act like not learning curvise means they won’t be learning the english language. No! If anything they can spend more time learning grammer than using a form of writing no longer necessary. As for signatures on legal documents, most signatures are very loose interpretations of cursive. Anyone old enough to have to sign for something is old enough to learn how to write cursive for their name.
xxx
November 12th, 2012
11:46 am
My kid learned cursive writing in Montessori as a 5 yr old.
Since most kids today don’t seem to be able to speak correctly or articualte a complete thought, why does writing style matter? All you’ll need to do to vote is make an X. Xx if you ‘re a junior:)
no seriously
November 12th, 2012
11:56 am
We really need to be teaching Chinese….all jokes aside, once the enormous debt is called due, you will want to know how to beg for mercy and writing in english cursive likely wont work as well.
The standard should always be how do we stay the leaders of the world…The Chinese ethic has been stronger for a couple decades and now with the debt we has pretty much made them our master. Cursive is a waste, we have to concentrate on what it takes to lead in technology, science, and business if we are to ever get back to the top.
Remember just because half of America wants to homoginize the world and gain world peace and gloal equality doesn’t mean anyone anywheere else does. We are hated and global targets. So the choices are lead, or follow. I choose lead.
Matt P
November 12th, 2012
12:00 pm
Cursive handwriting is a gigantic waste of time. Children that are learning how to write are taught a second way to write the same language. If you’re concerned about penmanship, the time would be better spent working on writing in print, the language children are originally taught to write.
Further, cursive is not used in books, newspapers, web pages, or magazines. There is ZERO legal reason for a signature to be in cursive, as opposed to print (it’s just a carry-over from a different time). Cursive contributes nothing. Hey, I like calligraphy too – it’s a nice art form, that interested parents can teach their kids in their free time, like all other hobbies.
If you want to teach children a second way to write, teach them a second language (after all, young brains are best at learning languages). If you want to teach children an effective communication tool, teach them keyboarding. If you want to waste a bunch of tax payer dollars teaching a useless skill, spend a bunch of time teaching 3rd grades how to write loopy letters that they will stop using in middle school and forget by the time they’ve graduated high school.
jarvis
November 12th, 2012
12:06 pm
@cynic, Your points about needing basic math is very ture, but that was a very poorly thought out argument for cursive.
Our literacy rate is 99% now. Would you like to compare that to the “classical’ periods?
Do you think the Declaration of Indepence and Constitution would be hand written today? Hamarabi’s code was carved in stone in Akkadian. Somehow we managed to get past inscribing things in stone and instead began writing them down. Amazingly the conepts in “the Code” survived The world is no worse for wear.
On a daily basis, our children do 1000X more writing and reading than we ever did. So much so that we have to remind them that they shouldn’t read and write on their phones while they’re driving. It’s like 2nd nature to them. They communicate with each other (while admittedly not a very deep level) faster and much more efficiently than we ever did. Western Civilization isn’t dying because no one can read shorthand anymore other than court reporters. The same will be true of cursive.
They read, write, and to some degree think in print. Teach them the alphabet and how to write their names in cursive for two weeks in the second grade, and then have them submit their work that way for the rest of the year. They’ll master their signatures, and for some reason that seems to be everyone’s concern.
The Truth
November 12th, 2012
12:07 pm
Cursive? Nah…let’s comtinue the dumbing down of America.
lmno
November 12th, 2012
12:14 pm
I was taught cursive handwriting in elementary school. As soon as it was no longer required, I stopped using it. Although, my handwriting is some hybrid of cursive and print.
When I was applying for Graduate School, the GRE had an essay section that stated it must be written in cursive. That essay took me way too long to write as I had to stop and think about what a capital Q or others looked like.
Kat
November 12th, 2012
12:18 pm
@Chaos: I took Latin in high school. It was dead then, and has no need to be resuscitated. Though I never forget amo, amare, amavi, amatum. So many words have Latin origins, and I just somehow remember them. Freaky. But teach keyboarding or a (useful) foreign language – like Chinese since we will owe them money for a while.
Children need to learn the basics of cursive. Cursive is not a foreign language. You need to be able to sign documents, read older handwritten text, etc. Many old letters are in cursive because personal letters were special. Today, they are rare.
It does not need to be on the curriculum on its own. Do children have any “freestyle” writing time in school in those journals that they have each year. Once they learn the basics, they should interchange print and cursive.
BK
November 12th, 2012
12:26 pm
OMG! You people have a lot more faith in the power grid than I do. Heaven help us all if, through some tragedy, we lose all of the tech gadgets of today through a loss of power.
decaturmamaof2
November 12th, 2012
12:30 pm
YES, we still need cursive! It not only teaches kids how to write a personal note, letter, etc., but also is very relevant to hand-eye development and fine-motor skills. My 5 year old learned cursive in his Montessori Primany classroom and I can totally see the value! (I am a HS teacher – on the PSAT you have to write a statement of ‘plagiarism’ which has to be in cursive — so it is still required!)
bikerchick777
November 12th, 2012
12:33 pm
I hate to see handwriting and cursive in particular removed from curriculum. My three stepchildren never learned to write in cursive and very little time was spent on teaching them to print clearly. As a result, they never developed the fine motor skills or hand-eye coordination to allow them to master “keyboarding”. The middle child wanted to play the guitar, and although he is doing well, he struggled mightily with precise finger placement on the fret of the guitar. Not only fine motor skills are lacking, but also spacial awareness, how to place the words on the line, separated by spaces, making the letters the same size, that teach how to use the available space and how to use it efficiently. Spacial awareness is crucial if you want to do artwork, graphic design, architecture, etc. How much harder will it be to learn these things in college when you never mastered them as a child?
None of my stepchildren can type correctly either as “keyboarding” was not something that was graded, nor did they do timed drills as we did back in the “old days” when it was called “typing class” and we were expected to learn to type with all ten fingers (not just two or three) and we were graded on our typing speed and accuracy. Our children do not have the ability to sign a check or sign their name on a contract, nor can they read a grocery list if I write it in cursive. It’s also sad because they are never going to read a handwritten historical document when we visit the Smithsonian or if they ever decide to research their geneology. It’s a shame because handwriting is as unique to an individual as their own personality and this younger generation has completely lost the ability to put pen to paper.
Georgia
November 12th, 2012
12:35 pm
Cursive writing. Like emoticons aren’t torture enough.
Patrick
November 12th, 2012
12:35 pm
DB – You and my mother must have been talking on the phone a lot when I was a kid. I remember her having conniptions when she found out we were learning how to use basic calculators to do just basic math in 3rd Grade. She went right up to the school, cornered my teacher and the principal, and asked why in the Hades were Third Graders using basic calculators. She insisted that her son not use a calculator during the exercises. Because of that, I can easily add sums in my head, calculate sales tax, and like your daughter, calculate how much I’d really be paying when something is x% off.
Like your kids, I wasn’t allowed to use a calculator on my math homework until a scientific calculator, which could appropriately do the order of operations with parentheses, was required.
They should still teach how to do both basic and some intermediate math by hand, should computers fail.
Same with cursive writing. It should still be taught. How else would you learn how to sign your name to important documents, like a job application, lease agreement, mortgage, or cell phone contract? What about when you have to sign credit card receipts at a restaurant? That’s where the ability to do math in your head would also come in: the ability to calculate 15 to 20% for a tip quickly, or even if you wanted to do an even dollar amount, add it up and still be correct.
For those who think such antiquated techniques are no longer necessary, they said the same thing about pay phones. Look how useful they became after Hurricane Sandy.
Now, what were you saying about cursive writing not being necessary anymore?
Patrick
November 12th, 2012
12:36 pm
“…until a scientific calculator *was required*…”
jarvis
November 12th, 2012
12:36 pm
So hand eye coordination…..that’s a result of learning cursive?
I’m going to need to see some data on that.
Shelia McBrayer
November 12th, 2012
12:37 pm
Most definitely! Kids coming along now do not know how to write legible even when they print. It should be taught in school.
Computer Ed Teacher
November 12th, 2012
12:43 pm
Cursive should not be replaced in the third grade with keyboarding. Most (almost all students) are not developmentally ready for keyboarding at that age, mostly physically. I think keyboarding should be taught in the 6th grade, but honestly, we are going in the direction that the desktop PC with keyboard will not be relevant in another 10 years.
Alison
November 12th, 2012
12:48 pm
Teaching cursive also exercises the left or creative side of the brain.
Fae
November 12th, 2012
12:51 pm
Are we going back to making our mark or signing with an X?
bikerchick777
November 12th, 2012
12:52 pm
@Patick, I wholeheartedly agree with your mother’s decision not to allow you to use a calculator in basic math. My three stepchildren are consistently AMAZED that their father and I can do math “in our heads”. Ask any one of them to double a recipe, calculate whether 2 10-oz cans for a dollar is a better value than one 16-oz can for .89 cents and you get a blank stare. When I tried to get my stepdaughter to use basic math skills in the grocery store, she was completely flummoxed. Her response when I tried to walk her through it? “I don’t do math in the summer. I only do math in school.”
Frederick Douglass
November 12th, 2012
1:09 pm
Chaos @ 9:52
Finding out what 15% of a number is easy; get your 10% of the number first, then halve that number, then add the two numbers together.
Matt P
November 12th, 2012
1:20 pm
I second the call for any studies that say that cursive, with its lazy looping, is somehow better for teaching hand-eye coordination and spatial awareness than print. If you want to teach kids hand-eye coordination, try recess. The kids will get in better shape and be better able to pay attention the rest of the day.
You can sign a check in print too. There is zero reason for it to be in cursive. You’re just indicating your approval. There is nothing more legal about cursive. I’d wager that it’s also less secure, since so many people have such terrible cursive signatures that there’s no telling if that’s someone’s real signature or not.
It’s nice that back in your day you walked uphill twelve miles to school both ways where you did trigonometry in your head before composing thank you notes in cursive. I’m sure your parents were very proud of you. Good job. But we’re talking about the best way to educate children today. I haven’t seen a single argument in favor of cursive here except for “I learned it when I was a kid.” Let’s not visit the sins of our parents onto our children. They may even write you a thank you card for the favor – I hope you don’t mind, it’ll be handwritten, but in print. Don’t tell Ms. Manners, she may have a stroke.
bikerchick777
November 12th, 2012
1:21 pm
http://mimlearning.com/news/2012/02/12/cutting-cursive-the-real-cost
“Cutting Cursive, The Real Cost” explains how doing away with cursive and print handwriting instruction robs children of important brain development. It also points out that while keyboarding is an essential skill and does stimulate brain development, clinical research shows that t stimulates completely different areas of the brain than handwriting. Clearly, keyboarding should be taught to children in school, but in conjunction with handwriting and in particular, cursive handwriting.
This is just like the “new math” that failed so miserably in schools when it was introduced and the removal of teaching phonics to young readers. Both resulted in lowered math and reading scores across the board. The average 15-year-old had a vocabulary of 25,000 words in 1950. Today’s 15-year-old has an average vocabulary of 10,000 words. Of course, it’s not only “dumbed down” school curriculum that has contributed to the decline. Television, video gaming and internet time have crowded out the amount of time spent reading books and writing, both exercises that require identifying and learning new words.
catlady
November 12th, 2012
1:56 pm
Sort of on this subject: One day I was sitting outside watching my class play (kindergarteners) when I noticed one of the girls hanging around me and the other teacher. I suggested that she go on and play, because we were “talking grown up talk.” Her eyes got big and she said, “Do you mean you are speaking in cursive??!” I have laughed about that for 30 years!
Halftrack
November 12th, 2012
2:02 pm
Kids still need to learn cursive. How else can they read the Constitution. Illegal aliens can’t do cursive either. They can only print. On applications this looks real illiterate when you accept the application back. This is really dumbing down our education system. We want all around education for our students so they can think critically at situations and circumstances. There was a person named “Guesser”, the more he learned; the more he knew; the more he knew; the less he knew about lesser and lesser.
Soccer MILF
November 12th, 2012
2:36 pm
Cursive is very important for girls who want to send out proper thnak you cards for wedding gifts. At least have the girls learn it. Boys generally do not need cursive for anything.
donkey200
November 12th, 2012
2:54 pm
My neices can neither read nor write in cursive. They weren’t taught in school and their parents sure as heck wouldn’t teach them. One is in college and the other is a senior.
DB
November 12th, 2012
3:44 pm
While I am a proponent of learning cursive, the argument that you will need it for signing contracts, etc., is getting less and less applicable. e-Signatures are becoming more and more in use — in real estate dealings, most docs are now signed by email through DocuSign or a similar email interface. So . . .hmm.
jarvis
November 12th, 2012
4:04 pm
TWG, please unfilter my last comment.
Producer
November 12th, 2012
4:14 pm
The fact that Theresa asks this question shows how effed-up the public schools are. Of course, it should be taught. Kids need it to develop a legal signature if nothing else. Other things that are necessary and indispensable are music, art and Spanish. This small column shows the need for those of you who can muster it, get your kids out of the cesspool of public school at all costs!
FCM
November 12th, 2012
5:52 pm
@DB Per Emily Post: “The general rule is: If you open a gift in the presence of the giver, then your verbal thanks are sufficient. If the giver wasn’t present, then a phone call is fine. Email is great when you just need to say a simple thanks quickly” She does maintain that handwritten notes are ALWAYS appropriate.
So apparently Emily Post (online) is ok with emailed thanks.
FCM
November 12th, 2012
5:55 pm
By the way you do know that business models are now accepting electronic signatures that can be done in certain office programs as legal on a contract right? In fact I signed the bid on my house with one.
hardaway
November 12th, 2012
6:15 pm
We could skip cursive and devote the time on how to use these words: there, their, they’re, your, you’re, then, than
Plus, in Georgia, you need to know the difference between succeed and secede.
motherjanegoose
November 12th, 2012
6:53 pm
@ catlady, I met a teacher who told me of a mediocre First Grader who turned in his homework in exquisite cursive and every question was correct. The teacher was suspcious and when she saw the mom she said, “Wow he did an excellent jon on that assignment and how you managed to teach him such a find hand of cursive over the weekend amazes me!” AHEM…the child did not do the assignment and the mother turned red.
I do not care what anyone says about thank you notes. If I take the time to earn the money to purchase your gift, shop for your gift, wrap your gift and either deliver or ship your gift…I expect a thank you note. I may be the ONLY one who feels this way and that is fine with me. If you do not send me a thank you note for your HS gift, do not bother expecting a gift for your wedding or baby. My own two know I am VERY cranky about this and they wrote all of their notes themselves, within two weeks.
On that note, when we hosted graduation dinners for our kids, they went around the room and chatted with EVERY person there. I also told them to introduce people to each other, as we were the only ones who knew everyone. I went to a baby shower a few weeks ago and was amazed that the guest of honor did not introduce any one. She is in her late 20’s. I sat near a lady my age who said to me, ” I do not know anyone here…do you?” I did not and we chatted with each other. To me, it would have been nice for everyone to be introduced by the expectant mama. There were about 20 people there. I meet and introduce people all the time and want my own two to have the skill as ( to me) it is important. They know how to handle themselves in social situations. Off topic but they also know how to tip appropriately. Many HS and college kids do not. They have seen me tip all sorts of wait staff and are prepared to handle these types of situations. I started giving them cash and the dinner bill when they were 12 and let them pay, for the experience.
Parent
November 12th, 2012
7:18 pm
“Our literacy rate is 99% now.”
What planet do you live on? Not Atlanta, Georgia, apparently. Our literacy rate is not 99% even among our HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATES!
Me
November 12th, 2012
7:35 pm
My daughter learned cursive in kindergarten (private school). It improved her print writing exponentially. Her name begins with a Q so she learned to write it in cursive when she was 5. People argue that we don’t need it because of computers, but I find it interesting that many computer e-signatures are in fact cursive. Almost all private schools still teach cursive AND find a way to teach all the other subjects. It makes me wonder if this will not become another way to further separate the haves and the have nots.
Top School
November 12th, 2012
7:39 pm
Sad to see penmanship die. I loved watching children transition from manuscript to cursive. It was a pleasure to teach this skill.
shon
November 12th, 2012
8:18 pm
When was the last time anyone really needed to use cursive other than signing your name on a document? I can’t remember the last time I had to write a letter or simply a sentence in cursive as an adult. The last time I did that was in elementary school. Do I believe cursive should still be taught in schools? Yes. Do I believe it should be a requirement? Only at a minimum. Children should learn the art of cursive for it’s basic uses in the world of today which is to sign their name. And should only be required to know how to write their name in cursive thus they will need to learn how to write every letter of the alphabet in cursive. After that is done, that’s it. Do they need to learn how to write a whole letter or paragraph in cursive? No. Should multiple weeks be spent on learning this artistic form of writing? No. Cursive besides signing your name is obsolete and is better being taught during art class honestly. How long do schools normally require their teachers to teach this writing form to their students? When I was in third grade it seemed like it took weeks. Kids would be better off learning how to properly read, improve their regular penmanship, and type on a keyboard.
Courtney
November 12th, 2012
9:02 pm
If you cannot read cursive; then you are an uneducated cretin. No function in society. Well, I guess someone has to dig the ditches.
Rick
November 12th, 2012
9:37 pm
Yes, of course it should be taught. Those fine hand movements transfer to other skills used in life and professionally. Like surgeons, welders, manicurist, postal workers, artist,…
I am 60 years old, and I am reminded nearly each day how precision those skills are, as they slower slip away.
Kat
November 12th, 2012
9:54 pm
@Techmom: “Way too many humps in a cursive m?” You have someplace to be that you have to do it incorrectly?
Bob
November 12th, 2012
10:05 pm
On “60″ minutes last night education was mentioned in two segments. A famous author mentioned that some young college kids he spoke with did not know that the 13 original colonies were all located on the east coast. Many feel that early American history has no place anymore in public schools and they are wrong. The second segment was about a high tech parts manufacturer that said most entry level people that applied for work could not write or speak a decent sentence. These kids are a product of the libs that have taken over public schools. Lets just teach kids how to text and not worry about the history of our country or basic grammar, they are not important, lets teach ebonics instead and keep passing kids that can’t read.
M.E.
November 12th, 2012
10:15 pm
“Oh, ma’am,” the cashier said, “you don’t need to write out that check; I’ve got a printer right here. Ma’am, I said, you don’t need to write out that check. Ma’am—Ma’am—Stop! We’ve got a printer….What’s a carbon copy?”
M.E.
November 12th, 2012
10:17 pm
“Wow!—Where’d you learn to write like that? It’s so pretty!”
Longtime Educator
November 12th, 2012
11:08 pm
On Sneak a Peek day, my students were always so excited about learning cursive that year. I was just as excited to teach it to them! 25 years of cursive instruction guaranteed that my handwriting looked like it belonged to a very neat third grader rather than an adult! I think it is still being taught in Cobb County.
Valerie Lyons
November 12th, 2012
11:22 pm
For those enamored of e-signatures, I’m not sure that they’ll help in any kind of criminal investigation for identity fraud or other simple, fraudulent transactions, whereas a beautiful and/or legible signature is a first, simple line of defense. And anyone who can’t learn how to master a keyboard, aka: type, has no physical dexterity whatsoever. A course in “keyboarding” shouldn’t need to last any longer than 6 weeks.