Bill Nye The Science Guy: Parents, do not teach creationism
Bill Nye The Science Guy has created a two-minute You Tube video for online knowledge group Big Think in which he defends evolution and ask parents not to raise creationist kids. Nye hosted a popular kids science show in the 1990s.
From NBC News via Channel 11’s website:
“Denial of evolution is unique to the United States,” Nye says in the video. After praising the U.S. as the world’s most advanced technological society, he credits that ranking to “intellectual capital we have, the general understanding of science. When you have a portion of the population that doesn’t believe in that, it holds everybody back, really.”
Nye goes on to say that he asks those who don’t believe in evolution to explain to him why they feel that way, and that “your world just becomes fantastically complicated when you don’t believe in evolution…”
“And I say to the grownups, if you want to deny evolution and live in your world, in your world that’s completely inconsistent with everything we observe in the universe, that’s fine,” Nye says. “But don’t make your kids do it because we need them. We need scientifically literate voters and taxpayers for the future. We need people that can – we need engineers that can build stuff, solve problems.”
What do you think of Bill Nye asking parents not to teach creationism? What are you teaching at home? Do you have a hard time bringing together your faith and evolution? Does Nye’s argument sway you? Is this just an issue in the South?
(This is a hot-button issue. Please try to use your best manners on the blog.)
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216 comments Add your comment
mike
August 30th, 2012
10:05 am
TING sounds a bit angry….wonder why?
Progress
August 30th, 2012
10:18 am
NAGA- What have you done wrong? You have taught them falsehoods. It’s as simple as that.
I am glad that in your anecdote (N = 1), there has been a positive outcome for your offspring. But the fact is that the number of college students studying STEM fields is dwarfed, a near microscopic portion, compared to those studying in other fields that are less important in my view. Part of the reason so few students go into STEM fields is because we have adults like Chris above, who don’t understand what a scientific theory is, or “mom” who doesn’t understand 9th grade science, and too many people who simply do not understand science or how to process evidence. And much of that is because they are indoctrinated early to cast reason aside and instead to believe in myths at the expense of reality. It’s very sad.
M.E.
August 30th, 2012
10:21 am
Thank you, Progress. However, there are points upon which we will disagree and, surprisingly, agree. Truth does not lie in the middle of the road and I did not assert such. The middle-of-the-road allows that different points of view may be truth. I did not suggest that the Bible was the only place to find examples of how to experience joy, patience, and forgiveness. Scripture, for me, is another form of poetry and prose, and sometimes, wise advice. There are parts of the Bible I would call immoral but not all, and I think people take it too literally when it is clearly myth and metaphor. But I would not dispense with it any more than I would the Koran or other religious scriptures that tell the stories of people and how they have pondered what for them were mysteries and truth in life. And, yes, you give the Bible too much power when you give it so much blame.
usually lurking
August 30th, 2012
10:29 am
@Progress, thanks for your thoughtful and accurate posts, especially for your explanation of what the word “theory” means in science. It is soooo painful to hear people say over and over again that evolution is “just a theory”. Aaaaargggghhhh!
Also, I don’t think that you have to reject science in order to believe in g-d.
Captain Kangaroo......The cheese and cracker guy
August 30th, 2012
10:38 am
So why do churches burn?
These are structures built specifically to worship an all powerful god, yet somehow he/she does not stop it.
Anyone care to answer?
DB
August 30th, 2012
10:39 am
We can argue about creationism vs. intelligent design vs. evolution until the cows come home. They are all theories. I’d love to see the proof on ANY of them, but I don’t think we ever will. So insisting that one is “right” and the others are “wrong” is pretty much an exercise in futility, IMHO.
DB
August 30th, 2012
10:40 am
@Captain Kangaroo: Free will.
Progress
August 30th, 2012
10:40 am
M.E.- I can accept your perspective on it, and will allow that all of those religious texts can legitimately be viewed as literature. But while they may contain some historical accuracies that pertain to the ancient people at the time of the writing (where the tribes were migrating, who they were in conflict with, etc.) I do not think it’s a stretch at all to regard their basic premises about the nature of the universe and origins of life as myths. Until someone can provide evidence for those fantastic claims then they are no different from the Greek myths or any other myths throughout time.
I also think the bible deserves the blame it gets. If substantial proportions of our population were not indoctrinated into believing fantastic myths from an early age it would not have limited progress on a host of issues. Medical advancements through the use of stem cells would be decades ahead of where they are now (quadriplegics often have to go to Europe to receive treatment for their spinal cord injuries). We could be addressing climate change instead of insisting that a supernatural force is the only entity that can influence the planet. And throughout our lives people would be making decisions based on a chain of verifiable evidence, but they don’t do that because from a very early age they are taught to believe in fantasy and cast reason aside. Contrary to me giving religion too much power, I think you give indoctrination into mythology a free pass and are in denial about its negative consequences.
Progress
August 30th, 2012
10:43 am
DB @ 10:39- My 9:59 post applies to you as well.
Tom
August 30th, 2012
10:43 am
“Creationism” is not a theory. It is a religion-based belief (or a “philosophy”, at best).
Tom
August 30th, 2012
10:45 am
Read this from Tyson….
http://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/read/2005/11/01/the-perimeter-of-ignorance
Progress
August 30th, 2012
10:46 am
I’d call creationism an unsupported hypothesis.
Tom
August 30th, 2012
10:55 am
If you found out one of your neighbors was deliberately working to limit their child’s intellectual development by mixing lead paint into their oatmeal, what would you do? Call DFACS? Call the cops?
Is the deliberate intellectual ‘hobbling’ of a child by replacing bona fide science with mythology in their education really any better? Is it “less heinous” simply because the damage is only limited to specific subjects and would be possible to repair later in life?
Captain Kangaroo......The cheese and cracker guy
August 30th, 2012
10:55 am
Wonder what the initials D B stand for……
Rebecca
August 30th, 2012
10:57 am
If you go back to Darwin’s Origin of the Species, you will find that Darwin never said that Man evolved from apes. This is a modern interpretation. I encouraged my children to be open-minded and look for the truth. Neither the Bible nor a science text book has all the answers. Some things we have to accept on faith.
Tom
August 30th, 2012
11:00 am
Rebecca, nobody has ever said humans evolved from apes. The descendants of a common ancestor did not evolve from each other.
Jack
August 30th, 2012
11:00 am
Teach your kids the Golden Rule. If they can stay out of jail and off dope, they’ll make some good decisions when they reach their majority. They shouldn’t be stunted with narrow-minded pious, rigid orthodoxy.
M.E.
August 30th, 2012
11:01 am
Oh, no, Progress, very familiar with the Bible’s negative consequences. But I think I have a different way of looking at things than you do. I am not all one-sided-prickly-science. Humanistic cultural historian here. We find beauty in what people create where others see none. And see the great pain created very clearly as well. However, empathy will kill you, and you’ve got to step back and be objective to find peace. (Matthew 6:34-7:2)
masters degree
August 30th, 2012
11:02 am
for the first 2 comments…. it is not quite.. it is quit… I found it funny as an engineer that the first too anti-creation comments would have such obvious errors…. we need more basic reading comprehension math and science classes… teach it all.
masters degree
August 30th, 2012
11:03 am
and just as I comment on grammer I see I put too instead of two! ha! I want to meet aqua girl one day I love her posts!!!
Suzanne Sommers for the Thighmaster™
August 30th, 2012
11:03 am
@ Jack……A lot of bankers….I mean swindlers stayed out of jail and off dope and look what they did to us.
Suzanne Sommers for the Thighmaster™
August 30th, 2012
11:06 am
@ Masters…..
So which do I enjoy? A quite evening at home, or a quiet evening at home?
Thanks!
Aquagirl
August 30th, 2012
11:08 am
I want to meet aqua girl one day I love her posts!!!
I’d love to meet you two, masters.
Miss Priss!
August 30th, 2012
11:12 am
NAGA, sweetie, but do the scholarly fruits of your womb have manners and social skills? You seem a bit shrill, and it drops from the shrill tree.
Tom
August 30th, 2012
11:13 am
grammar
FCM
August 30th, 2012
11:22 am
Dr. Robert Roper (now deceased) was a well respected professor at Georgia Tech, worked with NASA, and taught earth science.
Dr Roper was also a well respected member of his church community.
I recall that he was asked in a Bible Study how he reconciled Gensis 1 & 2 with his science logic. He said if you recall that time is of man made design and not something God worries about (as Jesus phrased it, “1000 years *like* a day”…notice not equal) then you realize that 7 days are not measured by modern standard.
If you go by the older of the accounts (Gen 2)…you find that it parallells what sciencist have proven to be how the earth evolved.
I think Bill Nye science dude needs to realize that both are true.
Progress
August 30th, 2012
11:38 am
M.E.- Humanistic psychologist and professor here. I would argue that I have objectivity on my side, as science is all about objectivity, and religion is all about subjectivity. In the middle it’s less objective. But you are correct; I am not a cultural relativist. I do not accept value in ideas or traditions simply because other cultures have. I would say that that would be a highly subjective practice. I would rather see humans grow out of archaic belief systems rather than perpetuate them.
Chris
August 30th, 2012
11:53 am
Hmmm, why call Christianity “mythology” when there are mounds of historical and archaeological evidence to back it up. The people, places, kings, queens, Roman leaders and generals actually existed. Roman historians back it up. It’s been tested by scientists and astronomers and passed the tests. Now if you don’t have faith it in fine but it’s passes snobbery to call it mythology. Sounds very much like persecuting people for their beliefs.
IntelligentDesign
August 30th, 2012
11:59 am
When it comes to evolution, most mutations (what evolution is based upon) that have an affect on future organisms actually introduce a negative trait that is passed on to future generations, not a positive one. Supposedly these negative traits are weeded out by natural selection – at least that is what the theory teaches. However, that is not what I see. As an example, there are currently 6500 genetic diseases and counting (diseases passed on from one generation to the next). Why isn’t evolution weeding out those diseases?
alm
August 30th, 2012
12:05 pm
I find it interesting when science and religion collide.
http://www.cernpodcast.com/?p=21
A
August 30th, 2012
12:07 pm
Big supporter of Bill, as all parents should be. We need more science folks like him out in the world telling the truth.
kimmer
August 30th, 2012
12:07 pm
First of all I think Bill Nye needs to mind his own business. He can express his opinion that he does not think parents shouldn’t teach creationism but outright telling them what they should or shouldn’t teach their children crosses the line.
Secondly, I fail to see how teaching creationism or evolution or whatever holds anything back technologically and the lofty position the US holds technologically would seem to bear that out. Nobody, even those who teach creationism, necessarily has a lack of general understanding of science nor are they unable to contribute greatly to scientific advancement in today’s world. I will say this, I think scientific advancement could be limited somewhat based on the bias that I have observed personally in the academic community against scientists who were brilliant in their own right but were ostracized because of their rejection of a theory that had nothing to do with their specific area of research.
Aquagirl
August 30th, 2012
12:09 pm
As an example, there are currently 6500 genetic diseases and counting
Source, please. Not that it makes a difference if there are 6500 or 65,000, I just want to see where you picked up this cut ‘n paste meme. It underlines the fact most people posting about creationism on the internet are circulating random crap they read on a a blog or facebook.
Matter of fact, I found your exact post duplicated by a FB user on another website. If you are that person, you sound like a parrot. If you’re not that person, it just shows how you’ll spam junk as “fact” because you can’t think for yourself or express your thoughts in a simple post.
jason
August 30th, 2012
12:10 pm
Progress-
“And I do not give the bible power. It has no inherent power. The power it does have in its believers’ ability to influence government, laws, education, the knowledge of future generations, etc., and that is a very real and unfortunate power.”
Maybe you are a wonderful student of science. But you are lousy student of history. Are you really completely unaware of how much good has been done by humanity as a direct result of great mens’ belief in the Bible? Are you completely unaware of how much the Tora and the teachings of Christ influenced the Renaissance, The Constitution, The Declaration of Independence and helped form the scientific method? If you are casting your lot with the brilliant men in history who rejected the idea of God, rather than the brilliant men throughout history who worshipped some sort of deity, you are rejecting the conclusions of the vast majority of history’s genius. Do you realize the combined weight of the intellects that you are essentially dismissing as fools?
IntelligentDesign
August 30th, 2012
12:18 pm
Aquagirl . #1 Google search genetic diseases and see for yourself what the number is.
#2 The reason the question keeps getting asked is because so far, there has not been a good explanation.
Bad mutations that are accumulating is the exact opposite of what the theory teaches.
biology teacher
August 30th, 2012
12:27 pm
@mom- evolution does NOT say that humans evolved from apes. The fact that you asked that question only shows your complete ignorance of what evolution is. One, “APES” is a broad category that includes chimps, gorillas, orangatanges, and yes – humans. So we didn’t evolve from apes, we ARE apes. Two, if I re-phrase your question to what I think you meant -”If we evolved from (gorillas) then why are there still gorillas?” It still shows that you’ve never properly been taught evolution. We didn’t evolve from any of the other apes now in existence. Rather, all members of the ape family, including humans, evolved from a common ancestor that now no longer exists. Please, before you dismiss scientific fact – know what it is first! Watch the PBS Nova series “Becoming Human” (it’s free to stream from the PBS Nova site – it is also an instant movie on Netflix) and learn what you’re talking about before you say it is not true.
Aquagirl
August 30th, 2012
12:28 pm
The reason the question keeps getting asked is because so far, there has not been a good explanation.
That’s because it’s a crappy question, like “if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes?”
If you’re parroting a question you don’t know whether it’s good, bad, or complete nonsense.
In this case it’s complete nonsense, as evidenced by your follow up post. “Bad” mutations don’t accumulate, and genetic diseases can arise spontaneously. So why don’t you go figure out how many of those alleged 6500 diseases are caused by “bad mutations accumulating.” Then we’ll have a number.
Also, define “bad” mutations. Is Sickle Cell a “bad” mutation?
Again, if you don’t understand the question you’re asking, that says it all, doesn’t it?
cricket
August 30th, 2012
12:36 pm
Leeh1 after reading your comment I think you are the fool God is talking about in the Bible…
biology teacher
August 30th, 2012
12:40 pm
@DB – the word “theory” has a different definition in science than it does in popular culture. Most of us use the word to mean a guess. . .but in science, the word “theory” is a working principle backed up with evidence and experience. For example, gravitational theory (btw, DB, you ever dismiss gravity as being “Just a theory?!) has been verified through our experience with tides, launching space shuttles, etc. We can use the theory of gravity to predict, correctly, how and when to launch the moon rocket. We can not, however, use creationism or it’s re-named successor “Intelligent design” to make any successful predictions – not is there any evidence that supports creationism. In fact, fossil evidence, DNA evidence, comparative embryology, and comparative anatomy all support evolution. There is evidence out the butt that supports evolution. That is the reason that the US Supreme Court has decided that neither creationism nor “intelligent design” can be taught in public schools – because it is teaching a religious idea with no basis in fact or evidence.
oh – a couple of other scientific THEORIES: gravity, germ theory (things called “germs” make us sick), cell theory (all living things are made up of cells)
IntelligentDesign
August 30th, 2012
12:40 pm
Aquagirl,
If the genetic disease did not come from bad mutations, then where did they come from? A mutation is a pure random change made to nucleotides in DNA (no intelligence involved). Those nucleotides represent the amino acid sequence that a protein is to take. A genetic disease implies that the nucleotide sequence was randomly altered for the worse. Correct me if I am wrong.
I will back online later this evening to discuss more. Have a great day.
Progress
August 30th, 2012
12:48 pm
Jason,
I’m discussing science, not history. I could go into the long, long list of fictions that humans thought to be true throughout history, but I can’t sit here typing for the next 1,000 years. Just because more primitive humans believed these superstitions doesn’t make them any more valid or any more true. We learn and we move on from archaic superstitions. You should try it.
jason
August 30th, 2012
1:09 pm
Up until very recently, the science that Mr. Nye is advocating – the science that is such a sure thing, and beyond debate – it told us that the universe was slowing in its expansion. Within the last two years, science has told us that in fact the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate. It’s hard to imagine a more fundamental, erstwhile “truth” that could have been so universally believed, and then so quickly and summarily reversed, than this. And the principal concept introduced into the scientific lexicon (at large anyway, it was first postulated around 1933) – in part to explain why the slowing expansion theory was so wrong – is that of dark matter, a substance that makes up 83% of the matter in the universe and about which we know basically nothing. To review: universe expanding, not contracting. Dark matter accounts for 83% of the universe’s matter. We have no idea what dark matter is. The principle difference between the believers and the non-believers is this: the believers are at least able to admit that we don’t know sh*t.
And Mr. Nye is tilting against windmills. I’ve met many Christian scientists. Some of whom are Creationists. They believe in all the same physical laws of nature as do the evolutionists. They simply read from a different prologue. They follow the same rules the evolutionists do. Hell, it was by-and-large Christian scientists who recognized, defined and recorded those laws in the first place. There is no field in science I am aware of that would disqualify a candidate who believed that there is a God who created the laws of nature, in favor of one who believes that those same laws of nature sprang into existence by virtue of non-diety forces.
Evolution and Creation both are theories which describe a process. God doesn’t enter the discussion unless and until you discuss causation.
And if you had any familiarity with the Bible at all, you would recognize that we won’t ever be able to prove the existence of God. The text is meaningless without faith, and faith is completely obsolete the second we can prove the existence of God. Believers have made their peace with that fact. I can’t prove that love is anything more than a chemical reaction inside my brain and never will. I believe in it anyway.
Tom
August 30th, 2012
1:15 pm
Again, creationism is not a theory…..it’s a mythology-based belief.
Aquagirl
August 30th, 2012
1:20 pm
A genetic disease implies that the nucleotide sequence was randomly altered for the worse. Correct me if I am wrong.
Well, you’re all kinds of wrong.
First, if the nucleotide sequence was randomly altered, why wouldn’t we currently have genetic diseases? We’re not the “final product.” Why would random mutations stop? Do you think “good” life forms have fewer mutations?
Second, a mutation you consider “bad” might be passed along but not expressed in the phenotype, the physical form. Unless you have inbreeding, that “bad” gene doesn’t matter.
Third, whether that alteration is worse depends on the environment. That’s why I mentioned Sickle Cell, which is an adaptive mutation if you live in Malaria infested areas. Or red-green color blindness, which can be great if you’re a hunter, not so great if you’re dealing with traffic lights.
Fourth, people with these “bad” genes are helped by our culture. We don’t let people with Sickle Cell disease die, we help them. They may live to produce children, which will carry the Sickle Cell gene.
Fifth, that genetic disorder may not cause problems until later in life, when you’re past the age of reproduction. Evolution doesn’t care if you have a long lifespan, it cares that you reproduce successfully and your offspring reproduce. Something like Huntington’s disease didn’t matter much until we started living past 40 on a regular basis.
Sixth, not all genetic diseases are caused by inheritance, which seems to be your point, that the “bad” genes would be suppressed by evolution. Some are caused by incorrect division, like Klinefelter’s syndrome. That falls under the $#!^ happens category. There may be environmental causes but it’s not “bad” genes being passed from parent to offspring.
I suggest a Biology course, and I’m saying that in the most non-snarky way possible. You toss out one thoughtless question and run, I have to take considerable time and thought to address your question and show your errors. That is what inevitably happens to creationism. If you sit down, listen, and really consider the evidence, it’s absolutely clear. If all you do is copy n’ paste crap from teh interwebz, you are doing yourself and everyone else a disservice.
Of course the standard tactic for creationists is to blow right past the fact they posed a question that was rooted in ignorance, and throw out another question from ignorance. So do forgive me if I ignore any of your future questions. If I feel it’s an honest one, fine. If it’s moving the goalposts….go play with the other creationists. But I do hope you’ll realize your rejection of evolution is partly due to the fact you’re ignorant. Not in the insulting sense, but in the sense you actually do not understand very basic concepts of evolution and genetics. I am ignorant of basic calculus, that doesn’t mean it’s “wrong” or doesn’t exist. And I sure as hell wouldn’t argue that with somebody who has expertise in the subject.
jason
August 30th, 2012
1:20 pm
Science is history. How do you not see that?
Superstitions? I’m not talking about Noah and the Ark here. Do you realize how little of the Bible is taken up by the story of creation? About .5.%. I’m talking about the principles contained in the Bible and the teachings of Christ. The teachings that inspired the greatest achievements of which we human beings can bost. The principles that beget the Constitution, the sanctity of the individual, and ideas of self-determination, democracy. That “All men were created equal…” These were radical ideas at the time. And they in turn inspired the powerful and beautiful words written by people like Thomas Jefferson, Martin Luther King, Jr., Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy. By suggesting that people who believe in God and the Bible are foolish, or are just being superstitious, you interjected yourself into a historical debate, because you are invalidating some of the greatest things human beings have ever accomplished.
jpm52433
August 30th, 2012
1:51 pm
Aquagirl, why does a belief in God require a rejection of anything “science” offers? And as far as evolution is concerned, it’s a nice theory, but it has too many holes, inconsistencies and leaps of faith to be labeled “fact.”
LeeH1, again, I don’t see the connection between believing God created the universe and a “world without change” or a rejection of “new ideas.” A fact remains a fact regardless of your ever changing understanding of it, or the new “suppositions” you make about it based on “interpretations” of new “evidence.” You can explore to farthest reaches of existence or dissect the smallest nano-particles, and you’ll never be able to disprove a creator or explain creation with anything more than a *shrug* and a big “I dunno.”
You deride the many cultural theories of creation claiming, incorrectly, that they “change almost daily”…and yet believe yourself to be intellectually superior when you put your faith…yes, faith…in a plethora of scientific theories that actually DO change daily. Oddly enough, you seem to find the constant revision and rejection of “science” as somehow validating the truth of “science.” You do realize how bizarre that is, don’t you?
Like believing the earth is flat, because science says so…and then when science says, “oops, we got it wrong, the earth is round,” you throw away what you KNEW to be true and say, “isn’t science wonderful, now I live on a round earth”…until science comes back and says, “oops, we got it wrong, the earth is a hexacosichoron,” and again, you throw away what you KNEW to be true and say, “isn’t science wonderful, now I live on a hexacosichoron earth”…and on and on and on. Except that it isn’t even that simple…because even “science” doesn’t believe in “science,” proposing multiple theories for just about everything. Talk about “trudging up and down the blind alleys of your beliefs.”
As I said, you place a lot of faith in a belief system that is based on guesses and suppositions and changes on an almost daily basis…and yet you have the arrogance to call people who’s beliefs have been consistent and perpetually validated for thousands of years “foolish?” Really?
Progress
August 30th, 2012
1:53 pm
Jason @ 1:09- I have to teach class so I don’t have time to respond to your diatribe, but I suggest you read my 9:59 post because it applies to you as well. If you think creationism is a theory then you don’t understand what a theory is, nor do you understand science. Have a great day.
Progress
August 30th, 2012
1:55 pm
And it appears you think the founding fathers were Christians instead of deists, so you’ll need to work on your history as well. You’re confusing the philosophy stemming from the Enlightenment with Christianity.
God
August 30th, 2012
1:57 pm
you take me out of schools, you take me out of your life and you wonder why things are falling apart. Try all you want but you can not deny I made it and you and can take it away. you people are pushing me to my limits and I will put an end of your world as you know it. Maybe before its too late you will see that I am the only way because its very dark and hot in hell.
jpm52433
August 30th, 2012
2:08 pm
Progress…as part of the natural evolutionary process, can you explain the Cambrian Explosion…and the almost instantaneous, and simultaneous, development of so many forms of complex eyes?
Tom…which thing about science is “true.” The Big Bang theory? Or is the truth one of the myriad of other origin theories? And which string theory is the truth…the bosonic string theory with 26 spacetime dimensions or the superstring theory with only 10 dimensions or the M-theory with 11 dimensions? Or is the entire notion of string theory bunk and the Helm theory or some other theory the “truth?” I guess we’ll just have to wait until tomorrow to find out.