Why is the church so prevalent in Southern family life?
The PBS series “Civilization: The West and the Rest with Niall Ferguson” looked at six reason why Western culture flourished and dominated the rest of the world.
I caught only part of the second half of the show that examined how the Protestant work ethic was a major contributor to the West’s success and why Europe today is falling behind.
“If the West’s moment of dominance is ending, the good news, for American viewers, is that this is apparently Europeans’ fault, a point Mr. Ferguson makes in Part 2 while discussing the rise and possible fall of what Max Weber outlined as the Protestant work ethic.”
“ ‘Today there’s a schism at the heart of Christendom,’ he says. ‘Europeans these days work a whole lot less than their American counterparts. And they don’t only work less. They pray less.’ ”
“He adds, ‘That’s a real anomaly in a world where, everywhere else, religious faith is not just strong but growing.’ ”
Ferguson throws out a fascinating statistic that only only 2 percent of English families are going to church on Sundays! He suggests it’s because the Church of England is the state religion and not competing with other Protestant churches to bring people in. So the people aren’t staying interested. Where as in America, the Protestant churches have always had to compete to bring in the flocks (and their wallets).
In the show, Ferguson keeps focusing on St. Louis, Mo., and how many Protestant churches are there. I guess because he has stats from the turn of the century on the number of churches there. But it kept making me think about the South.
Think about the sheer number of choices Southerners have not only in branches of the Protestant church but also in churches outside the denomination.
So I am wondering if the volume of competing churches is the reason the church (and God) have remained to important in Southern life?
People out West don’t talk about God and church as much as we do in the South. And when we lived in Pennsylvania I was told I was rude for asking one woman where she went to church. She told me I was awful to assume that she was religious.
The only other place I have lived that was as focussed on religion as the South was New York City. And there it was the Catholics and Jewish folks who were most vocal.
So I am wondering why do you think church has remained such as powerful influence in Southern culture (do we all agree on that?)? Is it because of this great competition that people have stayed interested and committed?
Is it purely tradition or is the competition of Protestant churches that keep the Southern Family interested?
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156 comments Add your comment
Bernie
July 10th, 2012
2:30 am
This is so because Hate and Evil is so prevalent in the daily life of the Southern Family that the hope of Sunday attendance will atone them for all of the Hurt and Pain inflicted on others by them from the previous week.
However, we all know that if they truly believed as they say and claim we would not have the worst ILLS of all of society at our Door step.
Zieanna W
July 10th, 2012
2:56 am
Why is the church so pervasive in Southern family life?
the title of the article makes it sound like there is something wrong w the church or church activity. better editing is needed. i think the author meant prevalent.
Dont forget Europe went through two world wars at their doorstep. war and extreme hardship tend to take a toll on religious beliefs.
MamaS
July 10th, 2012
4:38 am
The church in the South was (and in many places still is) the social center of the community. If you did not belong to a church, you were left out of many activities. The church provides free babysitters (Mom’s Day Out), free child care (VBS, Sunday School, children’s choir, Upward Soccer and Basketball), food pantries, clothing banks and Wednesday night social gatherings (usually with a free meal included). Some of the larger churches even sponsored their own private schools.
The church in small communities takes the place of non-profit social organizations (such as Boy’s and Girl’s Clubs) and also takes the place of governmental agencies like Senior Transport Services. Even though they all preach the same gospel, new members may choose a church based on what it provides socially — young families want a strong children’s program while retirees may seek out a church with programs and activities, day trips, etc. for adults.
FCM on my cell
July 10th, 2012
6:31 am
Perhaps it is because, at the moment anyway, the government is not using its power to dictate God. We are a nation of people whose early settlers fled religious persecution. The churches in this country managed, as MamaS said to be social centers. tThey were also political centers…this was. especially true of the rural & African American communities.
Clergy here are often elected/called by their congregations. It is my understanding that in Europe they are more ofte appointed.
shaggy
July 10th, 2012
6:45 am
If you hadn’t yet noticed, there are more differences in western United States culture than talking about church. Example: Saying goodbye
In the south, we can spend 45 minutes to an hour saying goodbye. We say goodbye in the living room, goodbye at the door, goodbye down the driveway, sometimes goodbye down the street into the next neighborhood. We just can’t get enough of our own hospitality, and I love that about us.
In the west, when you say goodbye, you might as well become invisible, because you have said goodbye, and they are done with you. Nothing personal, you just said goodbye, so skeedaddle hombre.
As for the English, I love them, but they still have royalty, which we booted to the curb over 230 years ago, and they won’t spend any money on dental care, plus the Scots have that haggis stuff that is just disgusting to look at, much less eat. Anybody for some yummy blood pudding? Nothing says delicious like congealed sheep’s blood in breading. Bleech!
shaggy
July 10th, 2012
6:56 am
FCM,
You know too much about history. You should be flogged for that. I’ll bet you even think the US Constitution is a useful document of governance, instead of the inconvenient rag our current government knows it to be. I hope you are not raising those children to know anything about civics, government, or economics. It will pull them away from the required celebrity learning and vacant, blank government job training that all American children must be well versed in to be popular with their peers. Smart is out of style, as demonstrated by “name the reality show, with your favorite star” programming, and style is everything in today’s fast changing but dull existence.
Voice of Reason
July 10th, 2012
7:23 am
Honestly, I think the general level of a person’s intelligence goes hand-in-hand with their general level of religious beliefs.
Yes, the lower your I.Q., the more you go to church. If that offends you, get over it.
Hope is not a strategy. Hope is all religion is. That, and religion is simply a set of guidelines that people go to extremes on to try to pass off as rules to scare you into giving more money to the church.
I wish I could move to Europe, not really, but, I like how they think.
motherjanegoose
July 10th, 2012
7:24 am
@ Mama S FREE Mom’s Day Out? I know this to be Mother’s Morning Out and there is typically a fee. Of course, I may be missing something. Free Sunday School yes and childcare for ladies Bible study yes!
@shaggy…social and cultural norms across the country are indeed fascinating! I pretty much know everyone on our block of 18 houses, except a new neighbor whom I have never seen…they bought the house and we wonder if they live there! My Aunt, in the midwest, once told me that she did not really know many of her neighbors…they had lived in the same house for over 30 years. I cannot imagine it.
When we moved here, from our small town in Texas, our new Pastor told us that we would have stronger relationships here in our GA church than in our neighborhood. We have not found that to be true. We do have friends in both pools but our neighbors have been great. We will be here 15 years next month and the time has flown. I love stopping to chat with them. In fairness, I do run into church members at the grocery store and stand in the aisles to chat with them too!
I work in lots of church Preschools and love to see how they reach out to young families. Many are just looking for a place to belong and when they see friendly folks with similar interests, it is a real drawing card. Since we have literally no family here, save my one sister, our church and neighbors have been very important to us. We appreciate them so much!
R@D@
July 10th, 2012
7:26 am
Shaggy, you need some serious help!!!!!
Jenny Reb
July 10th, 2012
7:28 am
If you have disdain for organized religion, Southern Life and the intertwining of the two, you can take your rude, liberal behind back up north.
Ever hear of “Northern Hospitality?”
Me, neither.
There’s a reason for that.
motherjanegoose
July 10th, 2012
7:35 am
@ Voice…I have never given $$$ to the church out of fear. It is as much a part of my life as brushing my teeth.
2 Corinthians 9:7
Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
Acts 20:35
In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’ “
Voice of Reason
July 10th, 2012
7:38 am
@Jenny Reb
Why is is that if you feel that if someone does not buy into organized religion then they are a liberal?
That is exactly the back-woods, closed minded attitude I would expect from a devout follower of organized religion. Congratulations, you are a poster-child.
I consider myself to be a realist. If you must pigeonhole me into some sort of political label. My life is governed by logic and reason, little of which occurs in any organized religion I have ever read about.
biscuit
July 10th, 2012
7:39 am
It’s complex but mostly it can be summed up as tradition. The attempt to classify Southerners as either this or that is as ignorant as it’s always been. A lot of people that identify strongly as Christian don’t wind up in a pew or even on a Sunday School role but just try messing with our religion and see where that gets you. More, let’s deconstruct people as beasts bs.
motherjanegoose
July 10th, 2012
7:41 am
@ Jenny…we recently stayed at a cute beach hotel in Gulf Shores, AL. I complimented the manager on the two front desk clerks as they were really hospitable and friendly. She replied, ” Oh they do a great job…we had to work on ______ as she came here from Michigan and was abrupt but she is great now!” Too funny! I am a Yankee by birth and a Southerner by choice…haha!
Voice of Reason
July 10th, 2012
7:42 am
@motherjanegoose
That’s fantastic, good for you, so you do not succumb to 1/3 of the points I was making in that comment.
JF McNamara
July 10th, 2012
7:43 am
Is Europe behind the South? You could have fooled me. They have more (better education, health and prosperity) and work less. The North and the West in America basically carry the South. The South is subsidized by federal money from NY, NJ and California just so we can have the basics plus they dominate us in the education rankings and are more healthy.
Perhaps the church has something to do with the South being so far behind.
Augusta
July 10th, 2012
7:43 am
Don’t do church. Too many hypocrites……trying to be all Godly on Sunday, then acting the fool all week. So on Sunday, they go atone for the weekly sins. If you lived your life daily as you do on Sunday, the world would be a better place.
So Cal
July 10th, 2012
7:43 am
Religion has been and will always be the root of war, hate and prosecution. I agree the more intelligent you are the less religion is required or needed. OK now let the Southern bashing begin!
JF McNamara
July 10th, 2012
7:47 am
@Jenny Reb,
Yes, there is Southern Hospitality as long as you are a white protestant. Everyone else (Black, Latinos, Jews, Gays, Muslims, Athiest) gets ostracized or made to feel unwelcome. Look at the South today. Against Gay marriage and against any reasonable immigration plan. That’s really hospitable.
BOB FROM ACCOUNT TEMPS
July 10th, 2012
7:47 am
Why isn’t the church pervasive in all family life? – That should be the question.
motherjanegoose
July 10th, 2012
7:48 am
@Voice…having born two children I am not intelligent enough to understand the miracle of birth.
I also cannot fathom how all of the different animals simply arrived on the scene without being created.
Just looking at the fish in the sea, is an amazing thing. Call me ignorant on this one…that’s o.k.
There are many things around me that do not seem logical: prayer for a very sick person that is answered by God and leaves Doctors amazed. I am happy to have my faith and know that God has the night shift, when I am too tired to worry any more and need to get some sleep.
Y’all have a great day…I am working a bit and need to go!
Voice of Reason
July 10th, 2012
7:49 am
I can see this getting out of hand and I really don’t have the time to argue with every single one of you who will ultimately rationalize every word I say because you suffer from some form of cognitive dissonance.
Let’s just divide by zero on this topic. You have your way of thinking, and I have mine. Let’s leave it at that. Cool?
Progress
July 10th, 2012
7:55 am
Religion is strong in the South because Southerners are so uneducated, reject science, and desire a return to the 1800’s. Most of the rest of the civilized world has moved on from repugnant mythology.
Jane
July 10th, 2012
7:59 am
Perhaps the reason for the South’s strong churches is the fact that Christianity is a compelling faith, and our churches know how to preach it. Christianity addresses the need in all of us for healing, for forgiveness, for redemption, for justice seen in the next life, if not in this one. Show me a place where Christianity is weak, and I will show you churches that do not preach the true and extraordinarily transformative message of Christ. The Northeast is currently such a mission field.
Yankees value status and achievement. Southerners value heart and wholeness. It has long been this way. They go to SAT prep classes, we go to hymn sings, PTL.
shaggy
July 10th, 2012
8:03 am
MJG,
“I also cannot fathom how all of the different animals simply arrived on the scene without being created.”
I also cannot fathom why a devil was “created”, and cancer was “created” , and ebola was “created”, etc… by an omnipotent being that supposedly loves humanity. Is that tough love or a really warped sense of humor?
Also that magic boat of Noah’s is quite a stretch…too bad Noah didn’t load a couple of Tyrannosaurs on that boat, now that would be interesting. Plus, what was with the command to “smite” the trees? What sin could a tree do? Actually the God of the Old Testament really liked a good smiting and did it often, sometimes just because he was pissed off, like a petulant child.
Voice of Reason
July 10th, 2012
8:06 am
@Shaggy
Actually, I think the God of the Old Testament was simply a raging alcoholic.
I’m not going to be able to ignore this blog today, I just know it.
DS
July 10th, 2012
8:08 am
Voice of Reason: I don’t know who or what caused you to have such a negative and truthfully backward view of religion, but have you ever heard of Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Newton, Pascal, Bach, Handel, Washington, Adams, etc. Some of these men did have significant conflicts with the established church (if any) in their respective countries, or theology in general Others produced very significant and lasting works directly tied to the established church. In fact, Bach was considered by Mozart as the greatest composer of their time. For each of those individuals that I named though, they all were practicing Christians, and documented to have attended church regularly. I don’t think that I would suggest any of those men had a low I. Q. either.
Asserting that an just because an individual goes to church they have a low I. Q., is just as ignorant as those fools who want to state that because some one is white that inherently makes that person a racist.
Augusta
July 10th, 2012
8:10 am
I’m with Voice today……I’ll try and play nice……I’ll TRY…..
Misplaced praise
July 10th, 2012
8:22 am
And why is morality so lacking? For folks who claim to support the “prince of peace” the unquestioning support for military adventurism (and all of the innocent lives it claims), rampant support for a growing police state (and all of the victimless crimes that is encompasses), and the hearty embrace of government control of people’s lives (beginning with theft as the mechanism for government funding) seems a bit inconsistent, But I guess the standard catch all phrase for christians always seems to apply “Christians are not perfect, only forgiven.” Certainly allows a lot of room for the most unholy of behavior doesn’t it?
SEE
July 10th, 2012
8:27 am
VoR said, “Why is is that if you feel that if someone does not buy into organized religion then they are a liberal? That is exactly the back-woods, closed minded attitude I would expect from a devout follower of organized religion. Congratulations, you are a poster-child.”
Right – and I suppose his/her previous statement, “Honestly, I think the general level of a person’s intelligence goes hand-in-hand with their general level of religious beliefs. Yes, the lower your I.Q., the more you go to church. If that offends you, get over it.” is not at all closed-minded and intolerant.
It’s called hypocrisy.
Thinking
July 10th, 2012
8:36 am
When times are bad, and people are uneducated, they’re going to find a supportive community at a local church. As society modernizes, as industry expands, as the economy grows, as things start getting better and people become more educated, they find more productive, rational ways to deal with tough spots in their lives. They realize that accepting a cadre of strange doctrines of dubious moral content without any supporting evidence is a bad idea, and thus, religion becomes less important to them.
globeflyer
July 10th, 2012
8:46 am
This is an amusing article and comments. I have traveled the world and have a difficult time understanding people who think that “Europe” is the “end all, be all” as a model for government. They are on the brink of financial Armageddon and, with the exception of Germany, can’t get any meaningful (think “global”) productivity out of their citizenry. Just the mere presumption of the article tells me that Mr. Ferguson doesn’t “get it”, and that’s to be expected. Not everyone does. The spiritual wasteland that is Europe is fine for a visit, but every time I leave I am grateful to be headed home. The self-appointed voices of “reason, sanity, logic, etc., etc,” are just that: self-appointed. We humans always think we have it all figured out until we don’t. Now we are on the verge of another discovery/understanding: the Higgs boson particle. After that is down pat, we will have it all figured out…..right? The only really smart people are the ones who know they don’t “know” it all. Even non-religious people can appreciate the complexity of our world (as we know it), but yet have a hard time explaining how it “just happened”, just hypothesis. Most of the same people who think we need to be proactive in saving the planet, are the same ones who don’t think that 2 +2 =4 (from a budgetary standpoint). Scientific curiosity is admirable, and needed, to enhance our short existence here on this tiny ball, but we are really just “dust in the wind” and need to realize that, ultimately, the end result of this planet, and others, is beyond our control. The question for each of us is; Who is in control? I know what I believe.
Figment
July 10th, 2012
8:59 am
I agree with Voice for the most part. And I personally don’t think Southerns are friendlier than Northerners. There are rude people everywhere.
Truth
July 10th, 2012
9:08 am
Voice of Reason is going to hell.
Me
July 10th, 2012
9:15 am
“I don’t object to the concept of a deity, but I’m baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance” — Amy Farrah Fowler…
FCM
July 10th, 2012
9:16 am
@ Shaggy…I am libertarian with a Politcal Science….OF COURSE I am teaching my children history, civics, etc…and the only “reality tv” we watch is Dancing with the Stars & Survivor. :) I even forbid Sponge Bob long before it became proven to do brain damage.
@ Augusta, “Don’t do church. Too many hypocrites” that is ok there is always room on the pew for one more!
FCM
July 10th, 2012
9:18 am
@ Shaggy, er that is a PS degree fingers got to fast.
@ ME….I LOVED that line when I saw it on the show! I fail to subscribe to the idea that God takes attendance. I do go to church but it is not be “counted” or “seen” it is because I get something from the sermon/teaching.
van
July 10th, 2012
9:20 am
Church and organized religion, while anachronistic, was very important in southern culture when the region and country was agrarian and spread out and education was not widely available. This made church very important to the people as a means of socialization and moral and philosophical guidance but as we have evolved, it is no longer relevant. I think part of the south holding onto this for so long has to do with “southern tradition” (whatever that is) and a belief that forgiveness will come to those who attend church. It is strange but not unexpected as the south tends to be behind the country and the rest of the western world when it comes to a lot of things but my guess is that it has more to do with the fact that southerners have been doing this for so long and invented their own sects that there are still enough people fooled into thinking it will bring them some enlightenment or salvation.
veemmmgee
July 10th, 2012
9:22 am
I may be a person of “lower intelligence”, but without the hope in Jesus Christ, my life would sound like you on here who are not believers. I would rather be stupid and believe, than to be “smart” like you, just in case you are all wrong.
So Cal
July 10th, 2012
9:29 am
@veemmmgee So what your saying is that everyone will perish if they are not Christian. I feel sorry for the poor human beings and children of isolated cultures through out the world who have no idea what Christianity is. Not to mention those of other faiths. You must feel very lucky or should I say “blessed”
Cindy
July 10th, 2012
9:30 am
@ Jane “yankees are all bout status and wealth”….you proved Voice to be correct once again. FYI – my father is a devout Catholic from the North and is the most god-fearing, church-going, bible study, conservative republican, modest means person I know. Furthermore…the civil war ended over a hundred years ago. Try a new term other than “yankee”…or did they teach you that on your backwoods church pew?
Cindy
July 10th, 2012
9:36 am
Here’s the other popular Southern saying that shows ignorance: “it’s God’s way”. Really? A child suffers through leukemia for a couple of years and then dies? I teen-ager suffers brain damage in a car accident and is left practically a vegetable while causing financial hardship on the family to continue his care? The elderly suffer dementia and live in a world of unawareness in their old age? Come on people. These things are the result of natural occurences and God has nothing to do with it. Get an education and stop believing everything in your small town church cults.
catlady
July 10th, 2012
9:37 am
My guesses? 1)Family and family history: Your parents and grandparents went to church, therefore you go and you take your family as well. In addition, many folks live near their parents, and it is expected that they continue to go together; 2) Education: Many churches that flourish in the South depend on uneducated country folk (I said MANY, not ALL); 3)TV and Radio: Many folks who listen to talk radio also turn on Creflo Dollar et al; 4)The heat: When we would visit my grandmother, the Baptist church was the only building air conditioned; (LOL I went everytime the church was open!)5) Power: Many of the churches stress that “being saved” is something YOU can do for YOURSELF and after that God will smite your enemies; 6) Sustenance: The church helps sustain us in time of need, and folks in the South have had PLENTY of times of need; 7) Release: Many churches in the South depend on feelings of ecstacy and emotionalism in their services.
There is something else, too, but I haven’t been able to put my finger on it to give it a name. Maybe it will come to me later.
Now, I say this with a sense of love. I am a Christian also, was raised attending church, and have been an occasional attender since becoming adult. And I took my kids to church regularly.
July 10th, 2012
9:38 am
“Honestly, I think the general level of a person’s intelligence goes hand-in-hand with their general level of religious beliefs.
Yes, the lower your I.Q., the more you go to church. If that offends you, get over it.”
Well you’re wrong. And not particularly honest.
I’m a pretty intelligent person, well-educated, creative, and capable of making my own decisions regarding my life and religion. Oh, my!
There goes your little idea… ppsssssshht… sound of a balloon deflating.
☺☻Have A Smile!
July 10th, 2012
9:40 am
Theresa, this self-righteous religion bashing is not the best use of a blog.
I knew immediately this would be the result. Somehow someone ALWAYS has to bash religion, and consistently fail to acknowledge the positive aspects that a moderate, conservative believer receives.
Oh well. Kind of sad to see people who are so bitter. :(
Denise
July 10th, 2012
9:48 am
Theresa – my post was eaten. Please retrieve if you feel like it.
Luke
July 10th, 2012
9:52 am
“Oh well. Kind of sad to see people who are so bitter. :(”
Non-religious people are only bitter when religious people try to force it down their throats by incorporating their strange values into politics.
Saul Good
July 10th, 2012
10:11 am
Simple…overall people tend to be less educated (and the school systems are ranked at the bottom)… no need for science when one believes that dinosaurs and man walked the earth at the same time…or that our flat earth is beteen 6,000-10,000 years old and was created in 7 days.
No not everone is smart outside of the South…there are idiots and fools in every corner of our nation…but with very weak schools, less people with college degrees, and the nation’s highest drop out rates comes people who are easily fooded into believing nonsense based upon irrational fear sold to them by preachers (who earn tax free salaries with your contributions)…
It’s not hard to reason why there are “too many” believers in the South. It’s quite simple…
Cannot say
July 10th, 2012
10:26 am
@ Luke “Non-religious people are only bitter when religious people try to force it down their throats by incorporating their strange values into politics” um there are pleanty of other people trying to shove their “values” and “beliefs” down societies throats to the point that they are seeking additional “rights” to be granted them by government.
"Too many" believers in the South...
July 10th, 2012
10:26 am
…ain’t no such thing – anywhere!!!!!