If a woman makes more money, should she pay ‘manimony’?
The other day a friend was telling me about her friend that quit her high-paying marketing job because she absolutely refused to pay her lazy husband alimony after finally kicking him out of the house.
Then last night I ran across this story on The Huffington Post examining if it’s fair for women who make more money not to pay alimony or manimony as they are dubbing it? Why should it be any different than when a man makes more and divorces?
“There really are two valid sides to this argument. If you think about it, men have been paying spousal support for years to their ex-wives who are staying home to raise the kids. Many of these stay-at-home moms have argued they gave up a career to raise a family and are entitled to compensation for that sacrifice.”
“After all, the goal of spousal maintenance is to financially support someone who cannot support himself or herself after the marriage ends. So does it really matter if that someone is a man or woman?”
“Women argue even if they are the CEO of their own company, for example, they are still often the CEO of the house as well. The school calls them when the kids are sick. These moms still take the kids to the dentist, doctor and extracurricular activities and often wake up in the middle of the night when the child is sick. These high-powered female executives argue because they are moms, by definition, the bulk of the care seems to rest on their shoulders. They’re doing double-duty, so to speak, and don’t want to send a check to their ex every month because they don’t believe he bares the brunt of the single parent job.”
We had another friend who supported her husband through multiple attempts at grad school to find himself and she when she finally decided to divorce him she went ballistic at the idea that she would keep supporting him. I think she got out of it but I can’t remember how she did it. (This was like 10 years ago. I think he finally decided on a career once she stopped paying all the bills and he started making money.)
Does it feel different for a woman to want and expect alimony after a divorce versus a man expecting it?
Do you make more than your husband? Would you pay him alimony if you divorced? Would you be OK with paying manimony if your husband had quit his job years before to be the main caregiver of the kids? Does that change the situation?
– Theresa Walsh Giarrusso, ajc.com Momania. I have increased my Twitter activity. I am sending out great stories for moms each day focusing on health, fitness, sex, entertainment, food, travel and obviously parenting! So follow me on Twitter at @AJCMOMania!)
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95 comments Add your comment
jarvis
May 26th, 2011
10:22 am
MJG, you weren’t kicked to the curb yesterday for saying your kids had jobs. You made JJ angry because while she was venting her frustrations about her daughter, you felt that it was appropriate to inform her that you couldn’t relate because your kids aren’t lazy like hers.
I’m sure you didn’t see it that way, but go back and read what you said from her perspective. She was already frustrated with her situation, and you piled on top of her with an example of how you had done a better job of preparing your kids for life.
You were like the person that asks the widow if her husband smoked.
motherjanegoose
May 26th, 2011
10:24 am
THANK YOU! Son will have 10 years with his company if he finishes Pharmacy School in two years.
Daughter is still exploring several options. She planned to go with Food Science but could not hack the Chemistry at UGA. She was passing but it was taking up a TON of time and will only get worse, as her brother told her. Typically, a large percentage of the Freshman class fails.
Kate
May 26th, 2011
10:35 am
It’s in only a very small number of divorces that either side deserves alimony. If it’s more difficult for men to receive alimony than women, than that’s probably more a reflection of how things should be for both sexes rather than an issue of inequality.
Don’t be so quick to assume women will get custody of the children either. My cousin recently gained full-custody of his children from his ex-wife. Initially, he and his ex had joint custody until she went “girls gone wild” (drugs, alcohol and multiple live-in boyfriends). Although he did have to prove his case, I think he would be the first to tell you that he was treated very fairly by the family courts, even in his small southern town.
Ultimately, the lesson to be learned from all this is be very, very careful who you marry.
motherjanegoose
May 26th, 2011
10:36 am
jarvis…my comment was for Sylvania not JJ.
My 9:47 post started with this:
Sylvania…thanks for your thoughts.
I found and sent JJ a link last night for a job that is near her. but she has posted that she has found one. GREAT! I was not directing my comment to JJ but to Sylvania and I TRULY apologize if it was taken that way! That is where facial cues and voice inflections are missing here.
DID I SAY JJ’S DAUGHTER WAS LAZY…WHERE? I do not know her, so I cannot make this assessment.
FYI…my own two ARE LAZY sometimes…I can relate to lazy kids! My daughter went to a new eye doctor yesterday. I told her to drive by and check out the location when she left her job…near there…before the appt. Nope, she did not. She was all frustrated when she got lost yesterday as her GPS took her in the wrong direction. The office is 2 miles from her job. I was in a show with Kinder and Dad was out of state. A lesson learned. Plan ahead.
HS Mom
May 26th, 2011
10:40 am
@ MrKay Esq
I guess you failed to read my post. SAHM’s are going to be extinct or poverty ridden because I don’t “deserve” alimony. I went back to work after 15 years but I can never recover my losses for my sacrifice to my kids. Thank God I have a husband that has planned for the unexpected and who won’t divorce me because I can’t contribute. Just another attack on SAHM’s.
Funny I was offered jobs left and right when I decided to re-enter the workforce. I guess the HR reps that told me they respected my sacrifices and could over look my long absense out of the workplace were feeding me BS.
MrKay Esq
May 26th, 2011
10:52 am
@HS Mom
I did read your post and you clearly stated you are college educated and that you are now working, am I wrong so far? so because you’re not making what you think you could’ve been making your ex (if you were hypothetically getting divorced) should be required to recoup what you could’ve been making? is that the gist of it?
If so, I stand by what said, you have a higher education, you are employed and you have the ability to fend for yourself, so no I do not believe someone should supplment your income at the expense of their own. In those cases where a divorce takes place and a spouse is a stay at home, without the means to obtain employment to take care of themselves, then yes I think alimony is appropriate; BUT in the instance where both spouses are working, yes I think as an adult they need to take care of themselves.
BTW, I also find it curious that you said “Thank God I have a husband that has planned for the unexpected” just curious but um… why aren’t you planning for the unexpected?
JJ
May 26th, 2011
11:01 am
Bad news – the job fell through. Turned out it was a scam……..back to square one……
jarvis
May 26th, 2011
11:10 am
JJ, what does she study at school? I have connections in the Atlanta HR Community. Maybe we could find a paid intership?
If she has one, ask TWG to forward me her resume or get my email from her.
traci
May 26th, 2011
11:15 am
MJG – you read entirely too much into this blog. I read yesterday’s blog and JJ merely stated that we get it and you don’t have to remind us every day. Everyone that reads this blog knows how great your kids are so please, let it rest.
catlady
May 26th, 2011
11:15 am
Jj: I was holding my breath. I know when my (IT) son in law was looking those scam companies just about made him homicidal! Wasting someone who is out of work’s time and money!
jarvis, how kind of you to offer. This blog has so many people with good hearts!
motherjanegoose
May 26th, 2011
11:17 am
JJ…did you check out the link I sent? It is right in our area. I poked around last night and found it, as I know many folks who hire for childcare in the summer.
JJ
May 26th, 2011
11:23 am
@jarvis – right not, just general studies. I’ll be happy to send you her resume. Thank you very much for the offer!!!!!
@MJG – no I didn’t but I will now. Thank you too.
JJ
May 26th, 2011
11:25 am
TWG – please send my email info to Jarvis. Thanks.
JJ
May 26th, 2011
11:28 am
@MJG – I checked it out, and it looks like she could very well be a neighbor of ours. I contacted her on behalf of my daughter. (I’m not helicoptering…..LOL)…Thank you again!!! I appreciate your efforts.
Tiger Ochocinco Mellencamp
May 26th, 2011
11:32 am
I think everyone of HS Mom’s ilk (male and female) who will flat out say “I AGREED to sacrifice my career” need to just do post-nup when they make that decision that if the marriage ends they are owed support.
Let me ask this….my wife had a pretty good paying job (70K+) and decided to switch careers and needed to go back to school to do so. this required her to go part time in that field at roughly 20% of her last job for a few years while she gets through grad school. This profession she picked pays on avg about $60K a year.
So let’s assume that when she gets through grad school she gets the $60K job and I’m making $175K because I’m in a profession that I stuck with and did well for the last 20 years. Let’s also assume we decide to end our marriage and we have equal joint custody of the kid. Would it be fair to place a spousal support payment on me?
motherjanegoose
May 26th, 2011
11:41 am
@ JJ…I am trying to help you and thought that possibility would be something immediate and not a lot of red tape. She could perhaps start work soon. Networking is a skill I have acquired and did not learn in college nor from my parents.
DB and I have a lot in common and we laugh when we have lunch as we met when we were over 50, from this blog. I spoke with her yesterday and was on the way to Kinder. She joked that I have been in Kinder way too long…’tis true!
@traci…well, then let me tell you about my neighbor’s wonderful kids, on our block:
One had a perfect SAT and is at Tech. He also works 40 plus hours per week each summer.
Two were Valedictorians at our local HS
One just graduated and is working in the King and Queen building in Dunwoody
One was offered a FULL ride to SC school but wanted to go to Tech…his sister will be a Senior
and still has her HOPE.
One just got her Master’s and a coaching and teaching job in Forsyth.
We have 15 kids in college on our block and I am proud of them!
Tiger Ochocinco Mellencamp
May 26th, 2011
11:46 am
another question…would it be fair for me to go after HER pay because of all the $$ we(I) sacrificed in terms of retirement contributions, savings, costs of grad school, etc? After all I agreed to the brunt of this sacrifice to enable her to get her education and this job, only to receive NO benefit after the marriage dissolves. Isn’t that kind of the same premise. I sacrificed for her betterment (just like a SAHM for her husbands career), only to find that the marriage is over and all of my sacrifice was for nothing. She got a masters and a career out of it, aren’t I entitled to a piece of that since I funded it and basically have to work longer in my career now because of that?
Kate
May 26th, 2011
12:02 pm
I am a SAHM. My husband and I were both completely in agreement that once we had children, I would have to give up my career and stay home because my job simply didn’t pay enough to justify the expense of daycare and my husband’s career requires him to work long hours and travel. However, if we ever split up, as long as I was physically able to work, I would never ask for alimony simply out of self respect! Child support, yes (assuming I had custody), but spousal support, no. It is very unlikely I would ever be able to make as much money as my husband, but that has as much to do with the fact that I was, and never will be, as ambitious or career oriented as he is as it does with the fact that I left my career to stay home with the kids. I worked before we started a family and helped support my husband while he was in grad school, but that still does not give me the right to be a yolk around his neck if we divorced. Bottom line is I take great pride in the fact that, at least as an adult, I have always been able to take care of myself.
traci
May 26th, 2011
12:12 pm
MJG, it’s great that your’e proud of them but like the OP said, JJ was frustrated and the last thing she wanted to hear were the words you said. Tis this is a blog and no facial expressions are seen so all could be misunderstood. It’s no big deal, chill & have a good day.
sa
May 26th, 2011
12:14 pm
This may not go over with some but it’s just my opinion and experience. I have gone through a divorce with two children and a vast difference in income and asked for no alimony. Thankfully, I did work since it has turned out that he is a firm believer that child support is an option and not mandatory. We just drastically adjusted our lifestyle. I personally would never allow myself to get in a situation (unexpected events like losing a job not withstanding) where I had to depend on someone to support me and my children financially. It is just too risky. I believe that while in the situations that some outlined where 20+ years of marriage result in alimony to a SAHM make sense, those reflect a different time. When my mom chose to stay home and raise me, there weren’t that many options to her career wise. That is no longer the case. If you choose to stay at home, then you must realize that there are sacrifices that go along with that such as earning potential and future income just as I realize the sacrifices of not being able to spend summers at the pool and taking “field trips” with my kids so that I can work. My point is, you have choices and you shouldn’t expect that those are going to be subsidized.
iRun
May 26th, 2011
12:18 pm
Some people are bringing up their own opinion about women “needing someone to take care of them” or whatever.
Now, personally, I realized early that I never wanted to be financially dependent on a man. I couldn’t see how that could ever work out in my favor.
But, that’s me and the decision I made. When I got married, my husband knew I’d never sacrifice my career to have a family. I mean, he felt the same way. Also, we knew that I’d eventually earn a higher salary, which came true. It’s one of the reasons we only had a single child. I mean, we thought about having more but in the end we just stuck with the one.
That all being said, there are still men out there who don’t like their wives to work, even if there are no kids yet. I remember being in college in south Louisiana and seeing girlfriends of mine, 22 years old, marrying 30 year old men who wanted them to keep house like their mamas did.
Ugh for me. But hey, that’s what THEY wanted as a couple.
So, if a man/woman gets married and gets the wife/husband-to-be to agree to keep house then there should be some expectation of recompense should the marriage fail. Maybe not forever. But you can’t leave that housekeeper high and dry after asking them to give up all that time they could have spent building the ability to be self-sustainable.
Come on Son
May 26th, 2011
1:19 pm
Equal Rights means equal responsibility = YES!
Betty
May 26th, 2011
1:30 pm
@MJG–to answer your question from much earlier today (I’ve been away)……..YES, I do work outside of the home. And the gentleman I was referring to is my EX. As another poster commented: Be Very Careful who you marry. And I will also add: And careful who you start a family with………
HB
May 26th, 2011
1:35 pm
Tiger, to answer your question, I do think that if one spouse supports the other going through school full-time for years in order obtain a high-paying career, and they divorce not long after then a few years of alimony may be in order. Long into careers with assets built up that can be split equally I think both should move on and take care of themselves, but if say, a teacher supports his family and sacrifices financially for 8-10 years while his wife goes through med school and residency, but then they divorce around the time she first starts to earn a doctor’s salary, yeah, I think he should get a portion of that for 3-4 years. He deserves a little return on his investment.
DB
May 26th, 2011
1:57 pm
Alimony was historically designed to protect women who devoted their lives to their husbands and families and then were tossed aside for “newer” models. :-) It evolved into a “you play, you pay” quasi-penalty for the partner (often male) who cheated on the marriage, and thus brought the marriage to an end, to insure that the injured party did not suffer financial hardship due to the cheating/abusive spouse’s fecklessness.
As with so many other things in society, the rules changed when women entered the workforce in droves, and took on greater responsibility for the financial side of marriage. The laws vary wildly from state to state — in some states, you can’t win alimony unless you have been married a minimum of 10 years. In other states, the alimony is for a limited amount of time, in order to allow the spouse time to get on their feet independently. There are many kinds of alimony — my favorite one is “reimbursement alimony”, to repay a spouse for funds expended on the other spouse during the marriage — i.e., the wife who puts her husband through medical or law school, and then gets divorced just as he starts making serious money. That, in turn, triggers increased alimony as some courts recognize that the injured spouse will not be enjoying the benefits of being married to a higher-income producing spouse after contributing to their education.
I have absolutely no problem with a wife providing alimony to an ex-husband (”manimony” is a stupid madeup word — the word is ALIMONY, and it is genderless), assuming that the circumstances are such that the husband would suffer financial hardship in the event of a divorce. That ol’ “maintain the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed,” especially if there is some sort of fault on the part of the other spouse, gets dragged into quite a few arguments, as we can see by a lot of celebrity divorces.
Also keep in mind that no-fault divorce is a relatively new concept — prior to the 70’s, there was almost always “fault”, even if it had to be manufactured. (The Duchess of Windsor, before she divorced her last husband to hang with King Edward VIII, ended up getting a divorce from her husband by creating the inference of adultery on his part — with her soon-to-be-ex’s assistance — because if she was at fault, she wasn’t allowed at court.) Up until just a generation or two ago, one might be legally divorced, but the “marriage” was still considered valid in terms of “til death” because of oaths taken at the wedding ceremony.
So, basically, now– what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If the man helped put his wfie through school, and she then divorces him, then he has a good argument for alimony to reimburse his expenditures. Most of the alimonies awarded these days are not lifetime — they are temporary, to allow the spouse time to get their life organized after divorce.
Of course, NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with child support. That is a completely different kettle of fish — and yes, women should contribute child support if she is not the primary caregiver.
Jeff
May 26th, 2011
3:16 pm
You know, as usual, it seems we’re all preaching to the choir on this as well as most topics. The vast majority of us are caring parents and reasonable individuals. It seems most of the time, the people who are unreasonable and bat a** crazy are not the type that are going to be on here having reasonable, caring discussions.
motherjanegoose
May 26th, 2011
3:40 pm
Uh…Jeff…we do get some KUKOO for COCOA PUFFS on here sometime…dontcha’ think?
I love the history DB brings up. I know NOTHING about it but often tell her that I think she is a very smart cookie! She reminds me that I can stay in a room of Kindergarteners and that has to count for something. Maybe it does!
mom2alex&max
May 26th, 2011
4:09 pm
Hye guys, I know we are talking about alimony and not child support..but it’s somewhat related.
The AJC just published a story that Dekalb Co is partnering with the courts and revoking tags of deadbeat parents. They get a letter and 60 days to make good, or their tags get revoked. I think that’s pretty awesome. DA is quoted saying: “Parents who will not support their children don’t deserve to drive”. Niice.
I thought I remember seeing something about deadbeat parents not being able to obtain a passport if they are delinquent, but I can’t remember if this was proposed or actually happened.
Abolish SAHM's
May 26th, 2011
4:15 pm
Stay at home mom’s are horrible woman, all lazy sacks of crap that deserve nothing, educated or not. They have completely destroyed the lives of working woman by being the “heros” to schools and making us look bad. They should have taken money from their husbands and stashed it a savings fund to pay for the future. Who cares if they live in poverty and are forced to go on welfare. They should have thought about that before they had children and should have gone after a high dollar career. We should make SAHM’s suffer for being so fricking stupid!
Cammi317
May 26th, 2011
4:51 pm
I work in a law office, so I have seen it happen MANY times. It’s nothing knew, just not widely heard because up until recent years the men were making more money. That’s no longer the case.
Cammi317
May 26th, 2011
4:53 pm
Also there are no “rules” for alimony in Georgia. It is at the Judge’s discretion.
DB
May 26th, 2011
5:08 pm
Interestingly — the state of Georgia almost never awards alimony to anyone found at fault due to adultery.
Something to keep in mind . . . :-D If a spouse is cheating — don’t go for a no-fault divorce!
15 states consider a professional degrees and licenses to be “marital property” if the degree was obtained during the marriage — and is thus subject to monetary property division.
Alimony has to be requested in a separate lawsuit before a divorce is final, and it depends strictly on who is considered the “dependent” spouse and who is considering the “supporting” spouse. The definition varies from state to state, but generally, alimony covers the gap between the accustomed lifestyle expenses and the income that the recipient produces, with some calculations based on the disposable income of the other party after their income and expenses.
@Abolish SAHM’s: I think you’re trolling, but if you aren’t — I think you skipped your meds this morning . . . There were SAHM’s LOOOONGGG before there were “working moms” in the sense that we consider it now. Not sure why you think a SAHM makes a working mom look bad — they work their a$$ off, how is that bad? There’s probably an equally specious argument to be made that working moms destroying the lives of SAHMs, and, as a result, contributed to a downward spiral in family life. A good SAHM works hard, too — but is unpaid.
Bob
May 26th, 2011
7:32 pm
Alimony is legalized slavery; especially if it’s permanent alimony. 99% of alimony payers are men yet 80% of divorces are filed by women. Nice retirement plan. Alimony payers are treated worse than hardened criminals by the courts. If you murder someone, you have constitutional protections in a court of law; even a state paid attorney. In divorce court you have absolutely no rights or protections. A marriage license is a slave contract with the state that gives control of your life to a judge. Don’t do it.
Never again
May 26th, 2011
7:46 pm
I gave up a long and successful career so that my wife could move into the fast track in a professional field. Five years later she made Partner, then decided to trade me in on a newer, more sporty model, while we were still married. She paid her attorney $5,000.00 in retainer before she ever even mentioned getting a divorce to me, then they tried to put me out into the cold without paying a dime. Didn’t work out that way. She had to pay me alimony for a year. I should have held out for three or even five years.
Several years later I still haven’t replaced my career and income, and at over 50 probably never will. Age discrimination is alive and well.
Bob
May 26th, 2011
8:06 pm
If your a man, never ever, ever, sign your name to a state marriage license……..If you have sons, warn them about what happens to men in these kangaroo courts at the hands of bottom feeding lawyers.
djm_NC
May 26th, 2011
8:07 pm
@ jj –so glad your daughter got the job–my daughter finally got one too!!! yay for them both!
djm_NC
May 27th, 2011
6:08 am
@MJG-i missed where you weere ‘kicked to the curb’ yesterday….what was the deal there? my kids have all worked as soon as they could push a lawn mower or clean a house…probably around the age of 12ish…they are very independant. i think your kids sound amazing. and i think mine are too :)
DB
May 27th, 2011
7:18 am
@Never Again and Bob: Welcome to the wonderful world of equality. Men have been pulling that sh!t for hundreds of years. NA, I’m sorry that your marriage ended. What I find interesting, though, is that when it happens to a man, they tend to get all “anti-marriage” and decide the whole institution of marriage is a sham and a farce. It’s mostly men who start whining that marriage is “unfair.” When it happens to a woman, generally women discover that a) they don’t need a man in their life, thank you very much or b) just because one marriage didn’t work out, it doesn’t mean that the next one is doomed, too.
Georgia’s divorce laws recognize 12 different “faults” and one “no fault” reason for divorce. Historically, almost no judge will allow alimony to the “guilty” party if the party is found to be guilty of adultery, and it’s hard to get it if the other faults are found to be present (persistent alcohol or drug abuse, for example). So, if you think you might need alimony, do NOT head for the “No Fault” counter.
@Never Again, yes, age discrimination IS alive and well — it’s one of the last valid forms of discrimination, unfortunately. It is what it is. *shrug*. I find it somewhat ironic, since it’s a holdover from a time when people joined a company, and tended to stay there for 30 or 40 years. Nowadays, in a world where an average length of employment at a business is around 7 years, it shouldn’t be such a consideration. Employers still think they they want people who will be “long term”; yet don’t often make it conducive to stay long-term.Employers want employees who can be flexible and are current on technology, and unfortunately, a lot of older job hunters can’t project that image.
Jeff
May 27th, 2011
7:34 am
Again, this original thread is “should women pay alimony”. Complaining about deadbeat dads not doing thier thingnis irrelevant. Stay on tract. I love you guys/women but we’re talking about 2 different things here.
DB
May 27th, 2011
7:37 am
@Kate: Regarding your desire never to be a yoke around his neck. Independence is a good and wonderful thing, don’t get me wrong. My father always told me growing up that I should always be prepared to be able to take care of myself if anything ever happened to my husband — not just divorce, but death or illness is always a possibility: my grandmother was a young widow just after WWII and thankfully had the training to support herself and her two kids.
However . . .
You didn’t make the decision to be a SAHM in a vacuum. Economically, you may have chosen to take a financial hit, career-wise, and you’re right, that’s your choice. But it was also your husband’s choice, because presumably, that was a decision you made together. He benefitted, too, from having you as a SAHM taking care of kids and home — he did not have expenditures for child care, etc. Your sacrifice of years of experience and seniority in the workplace in order to stay at home will never be recovered, but alimony might be in order to allow you to develop the resources to take care of yourself in case the marriage is dissolved. As far as being a “yoke” — well, think of it this way: You lightened the load for him when you stayed at home to care for the children. If the marriage dies, then that “yoke” is going to hit both of you — why should you carry it alone, through some false sense of pride?
Never again
May 27th, 2011
9:08 am
Don’t misunderstand me- I’m not all soured on marriage. Talking about my ex brings up all the negativity from a very painful time.
In fact I have remarried, and her “relationship” with a younger and sportier model didn’t work out. The “Never again” applies to giving up my career, even if the potential earning power she has is literally 10 times mine, as it was back when I foolishly did it.
The age discrimination is certainly ironic. I can be very flexible, and not only am I very much up on technology, but I have 30 years of experience to bring to the table. I also have the self confidence and stability that come with maturity. However, so far, potential employers can’t seem to get past my age. Part of the problem also is that the current economic situation doesn’t favor applicants with advanced degrees. Jobs requiring Master’s degrees are just about non-existant.
YUKI
May 27th, 2011
10:42 am
iRun…I went to college in South LA too. Where did you go?
Old Sandra
May 27th, 2011
2:10 pm
Not on topic: I haven’t been on much but just wanted to warn anyone who doesn’t already know to make sure that they lock the keys on their work mobile phones when they are not using them, to prevent accidental calls, and make sure that they put the things in a far far away drawer when they are at home just in case someone calls and get through without your knowing. It can be a not good situation. I can’t say much more than that but it is eating me up inside and I wouldn’t wish this on anyone …… ever.
Have a good weekend everyone!!!!
Wayne
May 27th, 2011
2:11 pm
@Old Sandra: I work with cell phones quite a bit here. If it’s that bad, you might consider changing the number. We’ve had to do that a couple of times. Don’t know the setup of your account with your cell carrier but here we have an account rep. Told him what’s happening and they just put another number on it. yeah, you have to tell everyone the number after that, but it’s a work number, y’know?
fix my brefus!
May 30th, 2011
6:05 am
I guess when your ugly it’s easy to be a feminist.