Should kids be separated from parents based on immigration status?
The Huffington Post is reporting that a 4-year-old girl who is a U.S. citizen was sent back to Guatemala when she entered the country with her grandfather.
Here is part of the story from The Huffington Post (check the link for all the details):
“The girl, Emily Samantha Ruiz, is a U.S. citizen. But she, like many other children of undocumented immigrants, became caught in a web of complications for families with mixed legal statuses. On her way home from a trip to Guatemala with her grandfather on March 11, Emily was detained in Dulles International Airport when authorities stopped her grandfather on an illegal entry charge from more than a decade ago.
“Authorities took her grandfather, a non-citizen on a valid work visa that allowed him to travel, into custody. But the young girl was detained in the airport, then sent back to Guatemala with her grandfather, citizenship notwithstanding. ”
Her family claims they were told Emily would either have to be sent back to Guatemala or put in a juvenile facility in the U.S. where she could end up in foster care.
U.S. Customs and Border Protection claimed they did offer the Ruiz family an opportunity to pick the girl up from authorities before she was sent back.
The father, who speaks Spanish, said the officer only spoke to him in English and he was not offered a translator. So he didn’t believe he was offered the choice of coming to get his daughter.
But there’s more to the story if you read down further:
“If Emily’s parents had gone to pick up their daughter from authorities, they could have risked deportation along with her grandfather. Immigration law leaves few options for immigrants who entered the country illegally and hope to gain legal status, typically requiring undocumented immigrants to return to their native country for a decade before they can reenter the country legally. Emily’s father, who told The New York Times he entered the United States unauthorized in 1996, could face detention if he encounters immigration officials. ”
“More than 100,000 parents of citizen children were deported between 1998 and 2007, according to a 2009 Homeland Security report. Many families contain both citizens or legal permanent residents and undocumented immigrants, including those like the Ruiz family where only young children have U.S. citizenship. About 4 million citizen children have at least one parent who is undocumented, according to a Pew Hispanic Center study of 2009 census data released in August.”
The story states that the more common twist on this is that the illegal parents are deported and the child is left behind alone in the U.S. (There are more details on the ins and outs of the immigration labyrinth toward the end of the story.)
The little girl will likely be reunited with her family soon. Rep. Steve Israel (D-N.Y.) is helping the family sort it all out.
So what do you think? Who do you believe? Was the family offered a choice to come and get their daughter but they were worried they would be deported? Did the immigration officials do this family wrong by not speaking in Spanish to them where they could understand their choices?
What should happen to families where the parents are illegal but the children are legal? Should families be split up based on immigration status?
– Theresa Walsh Giarrusso, ajc.com Momania
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160 comments Add your comment
jarvis
March 24th, 2011
9:24 am
Why should people be allowed to enter this country any differently than most peoples ancestors did?
They came through Ellis Island (or through another immigratin office), they were documented, and they followed the proper process to being here legally.
One of my best friends is Irish. He has been here since 1978 when he was three. He now has two kids and a wife here….all American citizens. He still has to renew his green card just like any other legal immigrant.
How is requiring proper documentation being a bigot? You can’t even get into Canada for a visit if you’ve had a DUI in the last 5 years, but with no background on the people at all the United States is expected to just let anyone that can sneak into the country stay as long as they want?
counterpoint
March 24th, 2011
9:27 am
“We are very seriously considering relocation, even though we both have strong roots here, due to some of the limited thinking and attitudes that have been displayed on this blog before.”
Erica, our entire county is fed up and furious on this issue, not just the state of GA.
In regards to your comment about no businesses relocating to GA because of our “limited mindest”. Many companies of my native state of Ohio have moved here since the recession started.
Finally, your comment about the South being so slow to recover. That’s what happens when people migrate here in record numbers from all over the country and over our borders illegally. We boomed big and the bust will take longer to recover from. We will recover, though, you need not worry yourself over that fact.
JATL
March 24th, 2011
9:29 am
As to this particular issue -they should all be together -in Guatemala. I certainly don’t blame people for wanting to get to the USA so they can make a better life for themselves and their families, but we simply have to do something -NOW. Amnesty was fine when Ronald Reagan did it, so I think we should do it right now and become incredibly stringent from here on out -and that means repealing the amendment and no longer automatically granting citizenship to anyone born here. IF your parents are either legal or well on their way to becoming legal citizens (meaning they entered legally and are maintaining the proper channels to live here, work here and become citizens themselves), then you can be granted citizenship upon birth. Otherwise -no. IF you are picked up or detected after the amnesty date and you did not report to receive your green card/processing papers, then you’re automatically deported with no questions or explanations. Those two laws alone would drastically change and help the illegal immigrant problem. You should also be deported immediately if you are arrested and convicted or found to be in any sort of gang.
Before anyone thinks I’m all out of compassion -I’m not. WE are all complicit in this issue. Whether you’ve done so personally or are only one or two degrees separated from it, we’ve all enjoyed the fruits of illegal labor. I’m the first to point out to those wishing for a nation-wide “round up” and deportation that sure, that’s fine if you want to pay $5 for a head of lettuce or a tomato and $1.5 million for that house that cost you $300,000 a few years ago. We have allowed our agricultural and building industries particularly to go on for years using illegal labor because we all benefited from it. The insurance premiums and costs of ER visits, school costs, etc. for all of these illegals is how we’re paying for it. There’s no free ride! The only way to truly make any sort of change is what I mentioned above. The family in this article shines a bright light on several of the problems -grandpa somehow has a work visa but came here illegally and has been living here as an illegal; dad has been here at least 4 years (age of daughter) but hasn’t bothered to learn the language, so he’s using that as an excuse (sorry, our language is English -I love other languages and multiculturalism, but I wouldn’t expect Guatemala, Mexico, China, France or any other non-English speaking nation to automatically speak English for my sake if I were in their country); and ultimately the fact that both of the child’s parents are illegals -this is why people have lost their compassion over this issue. The illegals not only want to be here and pay no taxes, but they want to enjoy everything tax-paying full citizens do! We have enough freeloaders who ARE citizens without adding more to the mix. And yes, I’m aware that they pay sales tax, but they need to be taxed on their income, their property and every other freaking thing just like the rest of us. “Membership” has its “privileges.”
deidre_NC
March 24th, 2011
9:32 am
i didnt have time to read all of the posts so i may be repeating some….i have no problem with people wanting to come here for a better life. that is one thing that made this country to start with-people coming here to escape some terrible things or just for more opportunities. but please do it legally!! as long as illegal immigrants are allowed all the freedoms and rights of a legal citizen this is never going to happen. people who are not legal citizens should not have the rights to any of our constitutional rights. and they should not be allowed to get a driver license-a job-government assistance-anything-unless they are legally here. we have good immigration laws-they are not enforced. its ridiculous. become a citizen if you want our better way of life!! i dont understand why they dont become citizens. there are classes to teach people our language and to become a US citizen. do it!
YUKI
March 24th, 2011
9:33 am
-Automatic citizenship for these babies should be done away with, period.
-If you live in America, you should learn English. If I were moving to another country, I would EXPECT to have to learn their language. Why should English speaking kids have time in the classroom taken away because of those who don’t know English? Why are my taxes paying for this?
-And speaking of taxes, why should they pay for food and medical care of those who are breaking the law?
It’s so frustrating to those of us who work hard, do the right thing and abide by the laws of this country. Why should others get special treatment?
JATL
March 24th, 2011
9:38 am
@Erica -sadly, you sound incredibly naive (almost ignorant) and uneducated -or at least uneducated regarding this issue. Do you ever watch or read the national news? I strongly suggest you and your family do some deep research before moving to so-called other “enlightened” areas of the country. You may not be able to beat a path back to Atlanta fast enough! The things I’ve heard out of the mouths of otherwise intelligent and non-bigoted people from other states (and non-southern states at that) regarding Hispanic people in general and illegal immigrant would curdle your blood. Last week it was senator from Kansas who called for a measure where we would shoot illegal border crossers from helicopters -wow, kind of makes Georgians seem a little nicer, huh? Go on out to the “left” coast. California, Oregon, Washington state -not fans of illegals! In fact, the one subject I’ve been shocked to hear diatribes about that sound like they came from the extreme far right is illegal immigration -and this is from extremely liberal, mostly homosexual, well-educated and upper middle-class folks in the San Francisco Bay area and Marin county areas. As far as the northeast is concerned -many places there still have their “sections” from the immigrants in the 1800s and 1900s -the Italian neighborhoods, Irish neighborhoods, etc. They don’t like the illegals either -and often get violent about it.
Denise
March 24th, 2011
9:39 am
Why do we have all these discussions of compassion surrounding Mexican citizens and none for Haitians? They get shipped back as soon as they look at the borders. I say ship the all “illegals” back if all “illegals” won’t receive the same compassion and “oh, they just come for a better life” argument.
JATL
March 24th, 2011
9:39 am
“illegal immigrantS” -left off the “s”
JJ
March 24th, 2011
9:47 am
@Lori – go to gwinnettmugs.com – and see how many illegals are being “Held for immigration”.
These illegals are crowding our jails and costing us taxpayer money, yours and mine. They are tying up our judical system. They have brought drugs, crime and gangs to our area. They are major trafficers of heroin, cocaine. They are setting up “grow houses” and meth labs in some of the finer neighborhoods, your and mine. They are killing each other, and anyone who happens to get in their way. Innocent children are the victims, innocent elderly are the victims. They carjack, they kill and don’t think twice about their actions. How would you feel if something like this happened to one of your loved ones? I’d think twice about your earlier statement…..
We don’t have enough of our finest men and women (Police office, and other law enforcements) to combat this DISEASE. We must do something about it.
I’m all for rounding them all up and sending them back from whence they came……IF they want to come back to the grand old US, do it properly and I, along with MANY others, have no problem with that. If you really want to be in America, then follow the rules.
I have some wonderful hispanic neighbors. They go to work EVERY SINGLE DAY, Sundays included. They leave before 7 in the mornings, and we don’t see them until after the sun goes down. They are very hard workers and have done some work on other neighbor’s homes, mine included. They are all LEGAL, and they are more than welcome in our neighborhood. We party with them New Years Eve, and on Sundays, they are a part of our “driveway parties” and they cook out and grill with us. They contribute to our society and follow the rules. They speak ENGLISH……although I know they speak spanish in their house, and sometimes on the driveways…….but They did it correctly and I am more than happy to have then as neighbors.
Georgia born Latino
March 24th, 2011
9:49 am
@Anon – please best go check the constitution of the US if you’re going to argue that point. It clearly states that every child in this country is entitled, even required to attend school, legal status notwithstanding. That is why it’s called COMPULSORY education. Additionally, sir, the point Erica is trying to make is that the US is only a country of law when it suits its purposes. I seriously doubt the Native Americans considered the Europeans’ immigration legal as they were being forced out of their territories by bullies with better weapons, all while being wiped out by disease.
Also, if YOU and all your other cohorts are such stringent believers in the rule of law, consider this: Have any of you ever…
Exceeded the speed limit
Driven with one too many drinks in you
Failed to pay a ticket or appear in court
“Fudged” a little on your taxes
Taken office supplies home without asking
Driven in the HOV Lane while alone
Given or received o r a l _ _ _
Then YOU ARE A CRIMINAL TOO>
JATL
March 24th, 2011
9:51 am
@Erica -see, all it took was looking at the front page of the AJC online edition to spot this article. It would seem that Atlanta is INDEED the place to be if you’re a minority in business!
http://blogs.ajc.com/business-beat/2011/03/23/metro-atlanta-is-no-1-in-minority-run-firms/
Anon
March 24th, 2011
9:51 am
nope, never done those things. sorry.
Georgia born Latino
March 24th, 2011
9:53 am
…. You’re a bad liar, even online.
Anon
March 24th, 2011
9:53 am
and perhaps you need to read the Constitution before sticking your foot in it. There is no guarantee of education.
DB
March 24th, 2011
9:53 am
It is generally considered that a child is the responsibility of the parent until they reach legal age. The parent can care for their child in their own country, and the child can then move to the U.S. when they are of legal age. If the parents of a citizen-child in this country breaks the law and ends up in jail and the child cannot be cared for by family, then the government steps in with foster care, etc. until the child is of legal age. HOW IS THIS ANY DIFFERENT? The illegal immigrant is being treated exactly like any citizen in this country who broke the law, and the child is being treated as any citizen would.
@Erica: This country was also founded in a tradition of war and rebellion, as evidenced by the American Revolution, and early immigrants who came to American didn’t expect the United States to educate, feed and provide medical care for their children. They only wanted to come to America as a chance to exercise their work ethic and prosper.
There is a mechanism in place for people to enter our country. We, as citizens, are asked to obey the laws, or we are punished. An 18 year old who drinks a beer can be arrested. But someone who enters our country illegally and contributes to the overcrowding in our schools and the strain on many border states’ medical services is long past the breaking point, and increasing in other areas — why do people think that these flagrant flouting of our laws should be overlooked in the name of compassion? I have NO problem with immigrants who follow and respect our laws, and in fact, I admire their willingness to take on the U.S. and exercise the opportunities available here.
What I have NO sympathy for are those that seem to think they are above — or below — the law. They may not think that the law applies to them (and indeed, it may not have applied to them, in their country, if their country was not evenhanded in applying the laws.) However, one of the beauties of this country is that the law DOES apply equally to everyone. “Equal opportunity UNDER THE LAW.” Step outside of the law and it’s rules, which have been created to protect the citizens of our country, and you lose your chance to “equal opportunity.” Someone has to pay for education and someone has to pay for medical care. If someone invited themselves into your house and then expected me to send their child to a private school and pay for their medical expenses if they got sick — you’d be exclaiming over their rudeness and brazeness, and would be all for calling the sherriff for eviction. How are illegal immigrants any different?
Anon
March 24th, 2011
9:57 am
hey Georgia, prove your position. Here’s a link to mine that even you should be able to understand.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080830140540AAwbJBP
Georgia born Latino
March 24th, 2011
9:59 am
In 1982, federal legislation was enacted entitling all students to a free public education from kindergarten through 12th grade. That same year, the Supreme Court upheld this legislation in the case Plyler v. Doe, stating that this policy further guarantees all access to K-12, regardless of immigration or legal status.
A 5-to-4 majority of the Supreme Court found that this policy was in violation of the FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT, as illegal immigrant children are people “in any ordinary sense of the term”, and therefore had protection from discrimination unless a substantial state interest could be shown to justify it.
Anon
March 24th, 2011
10:06 am
so the policy entitling all students to free public education was found in violation of the 14th, in other words, unconstitutional.
Georgia born Latino
March 24th, 2011
10:10 am
No, Anon, Plyler v Doe dealth with a Texas law that DENIED education to illegal immigrant children.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plyler_v._Doe
jb
March 24th, 2011
10:13 am
I think that if they want to stay in this county, they should pay to do so and not reap any of our government benifits. Tax every dollar 30% that they are sending out of the country for one and if caught working for cash, fine them and the employer as well.
counterpoint
March 24th, 2011
10:14 am
Also, if YOU and all your other cohorts are such stringent believers in the rule of law, consider this: Have any of you ever…
Exceeded the speed limit
Driven with one too many drinks in you
Failed to pay a ticket or appear in court
“Fudged” a little on your taxes
Taken office supplies home without asking
Driven in the HOV Lane while alone
We’ve heard these silly arguments before, ad nausem. Your like the little boy who kept crying “wolf”. Argue the same points long enough they just don’t have the same effect and fall on deaf ears.
William
March 24th, 2011
10:19 am
To all the Tea-Party folk, Nativistis, and States-Rights folk, one fact is uncontroverted demographics in America are changing, the racist views you many of you yahoos hold, to quote one of your heroes, will be part of the “Ash heap of History.” One day soon a so-called “Achor Baby” will be President of the United States and there is nothing you will be able to do to stop it. The forces of demographics are stronger than your isolated and narrow views. My suggestions to many of you is to prepare your children to compete in a world economy and thing globally. I do not want to see your children 10-20 years from now attending a tea-party rally uneducated, unemployed and having to use the confederate flag as toilet tissue.
Georgia born Latino
March 24th, 2011
10:22 am
….um, counterpoint. Check this out.
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/8/12/II/VIII/1325
The code clearly states that illegal entry is a civil offense. The penalties outlined do not differ greatly from those for local civil offenses such as DUI and Reckless Driving. Some states, such as Missippi, have counties where it is regular practice to require jail time for many moving violations.
While further levels of crime, such a marriage fraud, do carry heavier penalties, this code clearly identifies illegal entry as, again, a CIVIL offense, on the federal level, not unlike “crimes” I named.
Ellis Is.
March 24th, 2011
10:28 am
To all the Tea-Party folk, Nativistis, and States-Rights folk, one fact is uncontroverted demographics in America are changing, the racist views you many of you yahoos hold, to quote one of your heroes, will be part of the “Ash heap of History.” One day soon a so-called “Achor Baby” will be President of the United States and there is nothing you will be able to do to stop it. The forces of demographics are stronger than your isolated and narrow views. My suggestions to many of you is to prepare your children to compete in a world economy and thing globally. I do not want to see your children 10-20 years from now attending a tea-party rally uneducated, unemployed and having to use the confederate flag as toilet tissue.
That’s funny William, or whatever your real name is. Keep dreaming up these little fantasies of revenge in your mind. BYH! :)
Georgia born Latino
March 24th, 2011
10:30 am
Oh, and counterpoint, the reason you get sick of hearing these “silly” arguments is that they continue to expose the hypocrisy of people who use “Law” as their rallying cry, when it’s clear that it’s based on a culture of fear and hate.
I was born here in Atlanta in 1978, lucky to be born into a latino family that were citizens thanks to my grandfather coming to the US in the 1930’s when there were next to zero immigration related statutes. He grew up here, served in the armed forces, and gave all of us a chance at a better life.
I have seen the culture change and the hatred that is fueling this fight. I never heard any complaints about “illegals” in the 80’s and 90’s when they were helping transform Georgia into what it is today, being a huge portion of the workforce in residential and commercial construction, allowing you to buy houses for half of what they should cost. But now… everything that’s wrong in America is the illegal’s fault??? I’m sorry, but I’m not buying it.
William
March 24th, 2011
10:34 am
@Ellis Is…..I quess that is what many thought about African-Americans in the heat of the Civil Rights Movement and struggle……”Just A DREAM”
Rhetoric cannot fool History. I would advise you to get a copy of a basic American History book and start reading. We have had these debates already. See who won.
Lori
March 24th, 2011
10:35 am
I agree that something needs to be done, but what?? They sent that little girl back home with her grandfather, and she was a US citizen, but they let REPEATcriminals who are illegals stay here? I don’t get it. They system is so messed up. But I feel bad for the kids. They didn’t ask to be here illegally, and there is no legal method for them to become legal once they are here if they weren’t born here. I have a hard time wanting children to suffer because of the actions of their parents. I think, if we clearly aren’t going to make people leave, then why not give them some better way to become legal & pay taxes like the rest of us.
Fed Up
March 24th, 2011
10:37 am
@ Georgia born Latino
Are you one of the original anchor babies we hear so much about? All grown up and very hostile towards the very people that have fed, cared for, and educated you for FREE.
Georgia born Latino
March 24th, 2011
10:46 am
Wow… Fed Up. You have no good response, so the best you can do is accuse me of being an anchor baby??? Quite pathetic, dontcha think?
And for the record, both my parents, and everyone in my family are all citizens, and have great respect for America. My hostilities are directed at people such as yourself who replace reason with fear and hate. I’ll have you know that no one in my family has ever been on welfare, and I’ve worked every day of my life since I was 15. This is a stark contrast to so many “citizens” who, even back in 1990 when I lived in Dalton, GA, would rather sit at home, in government housing, and collect welfare and food stamps than go work in the carpet mills. That’s why they started recruiting the illegals in the first place.
jarvis
March 24th, 2011
10:52 am
So where’s the answer to my question?
Erica
March 24th, 2011
10:52 am
@ Georgia born Latino: Please do not become disillusioned by the venom and and rancor that the immigration debate has brought about this morning. As I read, I had to stop and think, despite all of its advances, the South still has very strong, deep issues regarding race, class, and culture. What this debate demonstrates is that we are still not there yet. While the Civil Rights movement very clearly was the spring board for the diversity that is present across the nation, there are still the ghosts of the past mentality (i.e. Cradle of Segregation) that remain. Continue to persevere. Education was and will continue to be the path through ignorance.
For those who tout the ” goodness” of our fine state, with mindsets similar to those displayed on today’s blog, look at the cities and states (some of which are our neighbors) that are surviving and thriving in this volatile economy and you will note one of many key factors: ethnic and cultural diversity. Examples would include Pennsylvania (i.e. Pittsburgh), DC Metro, Tennessee (esp. Nashville), and Texas (i.e. Dallas/ Fort Worth, Austin and Houston). So, hold on to your antiquated and limited mentalities and watch as the world continues to move right on past you.
MNH
March 24th, 2011
10:52 am
… But I feel bad for the kids.
Lori, we all do. Illegals have held the upper hand for decades out of our compassion for these kids. These kids have been raised to be good, do good in school, and keep their mouths closed. Now these same kids are the very one like the poster Georgia born Latino. The entitlement mentallity we have all created is out of control, and we have to put our foot down on this issue before our country is destroyed any further.
Illegal parents are now using their kids as pawns for all of us to see in hopes that people like you will continue to fight for them. The problem is the is trend to deport and change immigration laws is coming faster than illegals ever imagined. They know the free ride is over. Our compassion towards these children has turned into anger at these illegal parents, and how they are using their children as the final straw in this expensive, long game of hide and seek.
GAME OVER
LeeH1
March 24th, 2011
10:53 am
“If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.” Illegals always face problems when they duck under the line and enter America illegally. Tough! You knew the risks when you came in illegally. It is unforgivable for you now to use your children as emotional blackmail to get your way. Go home, Take your American citizen children with you. They can always come back when they are 18. You can’t, so stay home.
Erica
March 24th, 2011
10:54 am
@ Ga Born Latino: Well stated.
jarvis
March 24th, 2011
10:55 am
@Erica, feel free to claim the small infraction illegal immigration being a Civil offense.
Look up Federal Income Tax Evasion…it’s not. It’s a harsh felony.
Georgia born Latino
March 24th, 2011
11:00 am
I’d like to make a comparison, so bear with me a moment…
Prohibition in the United StatesMain article: Prohibition in the United States
Prohibition in the United States was a major reform movement sponsored by evangelical Protestant churches, especially the Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians, Disciples and Congregationalists from the 1840s into the 1920s. Kansas and Maine were early adopters. The Women’s Christian Temperance Union, founded in 1874, and the Prohibition Party were major players until the early 20th century, when the movement was taken over by the Anti-Saloon League. By using pressure politics on legislators, the Anti-Saloon League achieved the goal of nationwide prohibition during World War I, emphasizing the need to destroy the political corruption of the saloons, the political power of the German-based brewing industry, and the need to reduce domestic violence in the home. Prohibition was instituted with ratification of the Eighteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution on January 16, 1919, which prohibited the “…manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States…” Congress passed the “Volstead Act” on October 28, 1919, to enforce the law, but most large cities were uninterested in enforcing the legislation, leaving an understaffed federal service to go after bootleggers. Although alcohol consumption did decline, there was a dramatic rise in organized crime in the larger cities, which now had a cash crop that was in high demand. Prohibition became increasingly unpopular during the Great Depression, as the repeal movement, led by conservative Democrats and Catholics, emphasized that repeal would generate enormous sums of much needed tax revenue, and weaken the base of organized crime. In 1933 the Prohibition amendment to the Constitution was repealed, allowing the states to set their own laws. The organized Prohibition movement was dead nationwide, but survived for a while in a few southern and border states.[7][8]
Essentially, illegal immigrants and the labor they provide is like the alcohol. You can criminalize it all you want, but you’re never going to get rid of the demand for unskilled labor. Ultimately, Prohibition was defeated because of the rise in organized crime that accompanied it.
Now, I ask, who are the “criminals” among the illegals? It’s gangs and drug trafficking cartels. I ask again, WHO are their primary customers??? It’s good ole US citizens whose desire for pot, cocaine, and meth doesn’t cease. The reason there is so much violence in Mexico and along the border is because America’s War on Drugs was only successful in moving the entry points from Florida and New York harbors to the Mexican border.
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.
Fed Up
March 24th, 2011
11:01 am
@ Georgia born Latino
Your views and outbursts are in the minority as there are many legal latino immigrants that do not share your views towards illiegal aliens. I really think you are speaking up because you have something to hide or gain something big by supporting illegal aliens.
We do not fear or hate you, we just want you gone if you are are illegal.
Things are not going to work out the way you hope. Sorry.
jarvis
March 24th, 2011
11:08 am
Great comparison on Prohibition.
What finally brought down Al Capone? Not the prhobited sale of alchohol? He spent the remainder of his life in prison because he wasn’t paying taxes on what her earned.
The base illegal activity wasn’t the only problem. The fact was that he was earning millions of dollars and returning none of it to the government that was providing services for him.
Jeff
March 24th, 2011
11:10 am
This has basically become so out of control, that this is the type of option that is the only thing left available. If we were enforcing the laws from the beginning, we wouldn’t be having this problem now and this little girl wouldn’t be put through this. I feel sorry for the children caught in this, but we can’t start making a new rule for every case based on circumstances. It’s sad that we’ve put ourselves in this position.
Theresa Walsh Giarrusso
March 24th, 2011
11:12 am
I was talking with a longtime DEA agent in the Southwest the other day. He grew up in Arizona and is now retired so he’s been in the Southwest a long time. He was explaining that the migrant workers from Mexico (and I guess some other South American nations) would regularly go back and forth for the planting and harvesting seasons. They would leave their family in Mexico, come into the US to work and then go home with their money when the season was over. What he said was then after 9/11 the border was closed down so then they had to start sneaking to work or were trapped over here and couldn’t get back. Michael’s Italian relatives did similar things in the 1950s. they left their families on the farms in Italy and would come and work in the coal mines in West Virginia. Then when the work was done they would take their earnings and return home. But that method doesn’t really work any more but it seems like with that method you had less people trying to stay in the country.
It’s very interesting in AZ because they complain sooo much about the illegal immigrants but I believe recently ATL actually was ranked higher than PHX.
Another note, there are multiple layers of border patrol stops — This is how it’s been explained to me — 1. at the actual border crossing 2, floating ones that change going to hot spots where they believe there are crossings. and 3. about 20 or so miles in from the border running from Texas, New Mexico, AZ and California. You have to be checked in the United States to cross from state to state and in the states.
We did a quick, very cheap trip to San Diego for the kids spring break (they have it earlier here) and we went through two border patrol checkpoints well inside the US border to go from Tucson to San Diego. They have an initial look (we had to present our drivers licenses to prove we were citizens in the US) and if they find anything suspicious you pull over and dogs and officers go through your car and I guess interview you. The car lines were very long and it’s nerve wracking even if you know you are American. (I have very brown kids without passports yet.) I was very surprised by the border stops well within the US. (the idea is to catch illegals heading to work in other states after they crossed.)
Georgia born Latino
March 24th, 2011
11:12 am
Fed Up, I’d venture to say I know substantially more legal latino immigrants than you do; many through birth, and many more who did struggle and fight through the system to do things “the right way”. I can assure you that those who did go through the system are some of the most frustrated with it. The system itself is broken, and often punishes those who do the right thing.
One thing I would like to make clear is that I fully support a very strong border. Until immigrants see crossing the border as MORE dangerous than staying home, the “invasion” will continue.
HOWEVER, when you have 12 million illegals already here, and you consider that the DHS has estimated that the cost of deporting an alien averages $10,000 per person, it simply makes economic sense to find a better solution.
I do know many latinos, and people of other countries as well, who are “illegal”, either by entry or overstaying of a visa. The vast majority would gladly assimilate if there was any way for them to do it, and would pay whatever fines were necessary to make that happen.
Since that solution has been expressed by many latino conservative organizations and been so violently rejected as “amnesty”, what else can I conclude other than fear and hate as your true motivation???
counterpoint
March 24th, 2011
11:12 am
I think Erica left and had her hubby, Georgia born Latino start posting on here to show additional support. Now they seem to be alternatively posting.
Lots of good, solid arguments to deport illegals and change our immigration laws. I know I have sent many of these very arguments and educated suggestions to my lawmakers at both the federal and state levels. We are winning the fight!
This is getting old. One poster arguing with the masses.
Have a good day folks!
Photius
March 24th, 2011
11:14 am
Hi Erica @ 8:19am….. You might want to re-read early American history.
Our Founding Father’s were most certainly not “illegals” but rather Subjects under the Crown of England. All were born in the Colonies are were considered English citizens. In 1783 at the conclusion of the American Revolutionary War the Colonies ties to England were legally severed and the USA officially was independent. So our Founding Fathers were English citizens and then legally became American citizens – they were American citizens and they were not “illegals”. Going after the American Indians didn’t become United States policy until well into the 19th Century.
Might want to re-read that elementary school history book…
catlady
March 24th, 2011
11:40 am
Oh, Well: There is no one Indian or Asian language.
Amazed: I know you know illegal immigrants pay sales taxes and property taxes. Most pay income taxes, too. If you are talking about the ones who work “off the books,” well, many of your fellow citizens do that as well!
Erica: actually, my Latino children and their parents LOVE me. I am one of their strongest supporters and advocates. You see, I obey the laws as they are currently written, and provide EXCELLENT instruction to them. They clammor to be in my classes.
However, we were talking about the law and how it should be enforced. On that, I gave you my opinion. What we have done has not worked, and it has caused a great deal of civil (and uncivil!) unrest that have had a negative impact on the tenor of debate in this country.
Scooby
March 24th, 2011
11:45 am
Erica,
Please feel free to relocate on out of here. Perhaps you would enjoy Arizona.
Erica
March 24th, 2011
11:51 am
@TWG: Interesting viewpoint and insights, especially your descriptions of the layered border stops. I echo your sentiments related to the searches being a bit weird, even you’re an American citizen. We are headaed west this summer and I will be getting a passport for my little girl for sure, as she looks quite Latino and I want NO unpleasantness, should we encounter one of those stops. What’s interesting is depending on where you are in this city, those stops are a somewhat common occurence. My Latino husband has been stopped on numerous occassions, particularly in Cobb and Gwinnett counties on a seemingly benign traffic stop and asked to produce “proper paper work” (i.e. drivers license, etc.) He has yet to receive a ticket. This is a particularly troubling occurence and to me as a mom, sends a crappy message to our kids. He used to have his country’s flag proudly displayed on our van, but took it off, as he was tired of being stopped.
@Catlady: Thanks for your comments and explanation. However, can you honestly say that you are able to teach the children whom you “perceive” to have undocumented parents, without any hint of bias?
People are a sum total of their life experiences. It is easy to judge without having walked in their shoes.
a_mom
March 24th, 2011
12:35 pm
Why do people always use the child as justification to not enforce the law for deporting illegal aliens? “Yes, they broke the law to come here, but you can’t separate the child from his parents!”. Really? Do we use that reasoning for other crimes? Don’t other criminals who break our laws go to jail regardless of whether they have children? Why is this any different? You commit a crime, you pay the consequences. And you should think of the effect on your children BEFORE you commit that crime!
Also, imagine if your neighborhood was near the border & you had literally thousands of strangers passing through your area annually, even through your back yard. Some are looking for a job, some may be smuggling drugs or have other criminal intentions. They leave trash, feces, etc. on your property. How would you feel about going for a walk in your neighborhood in the evening? Or letting your children play outside if you weren’t watching them every second? I don’t even want to see ONE strange man in my back yard, let alone large groups!!! Where is your compassion for Americans in that situation?
It’s time to deport those who are here illegally! Our schools and hospitals are being drained financially. Our city, state, and federal social services are being drained as well. Watch the news & see how California is going bankrupt.
Tired of the taking
March 24th, 2011
12:39 pm
“I know you know illegal immigrants pay sales taxes and property taxes. Most pay income taxes, too.”
Very true, but they often take more than they contribute. They rent or have bought homes in areas many have fled, usually cheap starter neighborhoods. The number of people living in those households is much higher than the US average as well. It’s still a loss if you look at how much is being taken.
Not too long ago, there was a story about how Grady had to shut down it’s dialysis center. It was basically bankrupt, as almost all patients getting the life-saving service were illegals and did not pay. Grady even attempted to find centers in their native countries, and the illegals balked and caused an uproar. I need to go back and do some research. This is just one instance of how our health care crisis has been impacted by illegal immigration.
I don’t have to tell you about our education system. Our laws have been taken advantage of and teachers and administrators are just doing their jobs. These children are good kids and parents are often very involved. This is high quality education by their standards, for free. Why would illegals rocks the boat in that respect? They see themselves getting amnesty and needing that education.
“It is easy to judge without having walked in their shoes.”
Did you buy those shoes or did you take them?
Wayne
March 24th, 2011
12:41 pm
I went to visit San Diego a few years ago – Dad lives out that way – and I was amazed to see signs on the highways that depicted a family in silhouette. I asked what it was for and I was told that it’s a warning to drivers to watch out for Mexicans running/walking the wrong way on the highway. We have to have signs for this?
Dee Osborne
March 24th, 2011
12:44 pm
I am ashamed to be reading words written by American Citizens that make war on 4 year olds. Our nation was once great, but now has fallen far due to the attitude of it’s people. Shame on you!!! We once went to war to help the small, the weak, the oppressed. Now look at us, we only go to war if there is oil. You can judge a person’s character by the way they treat children and domestic animals. You people are cads and I disown you.