Natalie Munroe: Should teachers blog, even anonymously, about their students?
CNN and all the cable stations were abuzz about the teacher in Pennsylvania that has been suspended, and may be fired, for blogging about her students.
Natalie Munroe, a 30-year-old teacher at Central Bucks East High School in Doyleston, Pa., didn’t identify her students in the blog, but she did say some mean comments about them. For example:
According to the New York Daily News:
“In her blog, which has since been removed, Munroe referred to her students as ‘out of control,’ ‘rude, lazy, disengaged whiners,’ and called one ‘a complete and utter jerk in all ways.’”
“ ‘There’s no other way to say this, I hate your kid,’ she wrote in one post. ‘Although academically okay your child has no other redeeming qualities,’ she said in another.”…
“I don’t think I did anything wrong,” she told ABC News. “I’m sorry that it was taken out of context but I stand by what I said.” …
“In one tongue-in-cheek post she offered fellow teachers alternative ways to describe students on report cards, such as ‘rat-like,’ ‘dresses like a streetwalker,’ and ‘frightfully dim.’ Of one student, she cruelly joked that ‘the trash company is hiring. ’ ”
“Munroe’s attorney Steve Rovner argues she did nothing wrong, even if she offended people. ‘There’s no Internet policy at her school district. She was free to write and she free to express herself; it was like a personal diary,’ he told ABC.”
Munroe said only seven friends, her husband and herself were “followers” of the blog and that 60 of the total 84 blogs she wrote had absolutely nothing to do with work or her students. Her blog is back up and had 420 followers as of last night.
From an explanation on Munroe’s new blog:
“See, what I’d done was written a casual blog. I talked about everything–such exciting topics as our trip to Sesame Place, my favorite (and least favorite) restaurants, my work experiences, the diaper genie. I had 9 followers–2 of whom were my husband and myself, the other 7 were friends. When I started it, my goal was to write 1-3 times a week, though I didn’t usually have time to do it that much. I ended up writing 84 blogs between 8/9/09 and 11/25/10. (I remember that, at one point, my track of blogging was about equal with my gym-going, but my gym-going eventually surpassed my blog track. I went there religiously at least 3 times a week until my morning sickness started…) I slowed down at the end, writing only about 10 blogs between June and November. I was too busy with being pregnant, teaching a new curriculum, and being harassed at school to write anything between November and February.
“When I wrote, I kept things as anonymous as possible; I know there are crazies out there and I didn’t want anyone trying to track me down. I blogged as “Natalie M” and had no location information or email address or anything listed or accessible. Nor did I ever mention where I worked or the names of students. Yet, there’s this perception that I was trying to lambaste everyone in the school without heed. That’s bollocks.”
“What bothers me so much about this situation is that what I wrote is being taken out of context. Of my 84 blogs, 60 of them had absolutely nothing to do with school or work. Of the 24 that mentioned it, only some of them were actually focused on it–others may have mentioned it in passing, like if I was listing things that annoyed me that day and wrote without any elaboration that students were annoying that day.”
There is a whole lot more on her site and it gives much more insight into her mindset and her purpose. Reading her side of the story did soften my opinion some. However I still have thoughts and questions:
- You hear all the time about teachers getting in trouble for photos they show on Facebook or things they write on Facebook. Facebook is much more private (just your “friends”) than an open blog. I’m unclear why she thought this would be a good idea or even OK even without naming the students and even if it was only a few times.
- Maybe the teacher didn’t realize with Wordpress and Blogspot, you can set it so search engines can’t find it. It won’t show up unless someone has the exact URL. Two summers ago when we were trying to keep everyone updated on my brother’s medical condition, I created a Blogspot blog and made it private. I sent the link to family and friends and they bookmarked it. They were the only ones that could see it. But would that make it OK? Would that make it better if a teacher was writing about her students on a private, non-search engine, blog?
- I am wondering how the students came across it? It’s unlikely that search engines would have picked it up even if not marked private. You have to have a ton of hits for your blog to pull up on Google and Yahoo so if she only had nine followers, I’m not sure how anyone else found it. Hmmmm.
- As someone who blogs for a living about her children and our family life, I have definitely had to learn what is OK to post publicly and what is not. And I have gotten into trouble with friends for including things that even though were anonymous they felt were still private and out of bounds. They felt identified even if they weren’t by name. Even though the teacher didn’t identify the students, are mean comments about them still out of bounds?
- In journalism, there is a standard to be sued for libel that you have prove that someone is identifiable. Now if that teacher has five classes of 30 students a day then probably no one is identifiable if she didn’t use their names. However, I think writing nasty things about her students hurts her credibility and the parents’ confidence in her as a teacher.
- It just occurred to me: Is this the reverse of college students rating and commenting on their professors online? (And as we know people are much more vicious when it is anonymous.) Michael doesn’t think this is not comparable at all: that the students pay a college to be taught where this lady is being paid to teach the kids. Hmm.. have to think on that some more.
So what do you think: Do teachers have a right to vent? Do they have a right to write a journal or diary? Is it OK to do that online on a public blog? How did you feel about her explanation versus what was being pulled by different media outlets? What should happen to this teacher?
– By Theresa Walsh Giarrusso, ajcMomania
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310 comments Add your comment
redhousecat
February 17th, 2011
9:47 am
in response to B scott, I would hardly call her crazy. She seems perfectly normal. She’s a preggo woman who is probably very tired of not being able to properly teach and weary of jumping through the hoops of political correctness.
I can even see where MJG comes with the professionalism argument. That being said, she was rather anonymous, no name, no location, with few followers. Someone sold her out. Just goes to show, you still need to THINK before speaking or writing, even if you do think you are anonymous.
It would be interesting to know what kind of teacher she is. If she is popular amongst students or just squeaking by.
jtom
February 17th, 2011
9:53 am
care to reply to B Scott?
Sure.
B Scott, why don’t you do a little research? There ARE sites that rate public k-12 teachers, allowing students to post comments. As far as I know, there have been no penalties assessed to students who berate their teachers. I suspect some teachers may welcome the feedback, and maybe it will encourage those who should not be teaching to change their careers.
Only you aren’t interested in that. You’re just interested in spewing hate at a someone you know little of because she has the courage to describe her classroom experiences in her blog. It’s tempting to believe that you were a disaster of a student (maybe still are) and blame everyone else for your problems. I hope you don’t have children of your own. You would negate any chance of their ever getting an education.
And to Catch 22 @ Bang 44 who wrote, “jtom – your words are great but parents will always be blind when the light is brightest on their own kin:” Yes, you are right, that’s why it is up to the OTHER parents to change what is happening in schools. The legal system will not be blinded by that light, and it my help the parents of the deliquents to realize their little ones are actually basking in a BAD light.
shaggy
February 17th, 2011
9:53 am
redhousecat,
“If she is popular amongst students or just squeaking by.”
So, by your comment, a teacher must be popular with students. It seems they are there to teach, not be their students buddies. The teachers that had the most profound influence over me, were far from popular with the students. They were tough, demanding, and smart as all get out. I got it, and am thankful that I did.
redhousecat
February 17th, 2011
10:00 am
shaggy….huh? wow, how did you come to that conclusion? I just wondered why kind of teacher she is/was since I have no idea. Is there a better way to phrase that inquiry?
I’m rooting for the unpopular, effective, profound stereoptype, myself.
El
February 17th, 2011
10:02 am
I think she had every right to post the TRUTH. I think parents and students are just mad because they can’t get over the fact that their perfect little angel isn’t that perfect o an angel and feel defensive about their parenting.
I’ve worked with older students and it’s TRUE. They ARE disrespectful, rude, they whine about EVERYTHING and DO think they’re entitled to better grades when they didn’t do any work. Not all. but A LOT.
How about we do something about the STUDENTS instead of trying to cover it up with a teacher “writing hurtful and mean blogs :( boo hoo”
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jtom
February 17th, 2011
10:06 am
SuwaneeMommy :
If by law you HAD to accept ‘clients’ who ignored and berated you, and compromised your ability to help OTHER clients, would you stay silent, or would you want to make those other clients aware that the policies were harming them?
How do you expect schools to improve if teachers are muzzled? Realize that privacy rights preclude teachers publicly naming their students, for ANY reason, much less to criticize their behavior or lack of academic performance. There are very limited ways that teachers can make public what is going on in the classroom. We need to encourage blogs like this, not forbid them.
Mattie
February 17th, 2011
10:15 am
I read the original post, and the “rude, lazy, disengaged whiners was one of the few things that could be printed in a newspaper. Most of it was much worse. But, she wrote under the guise of what she “wished” she could put in the comments column of report cards, and I took it as largely tongue in cheek, with a generous helping of truth.
My concern is that in the very recent past, a student’s right to call her teacher a fat d*bag on Facebook was upheld as freedom of speech. I don’t see how we can have it both ways. If we demand civility from our teachers, we can’t ask less of the students.
Regardless of the legalities, the teacher will surely be dismissed eventually and drag it out in court. Her posts may be protected, but her job isn’t.
Anonymous1
February 17th, 2011
10:15 am
Katie and Rob: I agree with you both. Just because she has the freedom to say these things doesn’t mean that it’s right. Teachers are held to a higher standard and we she put these comments on her blog, she should have been prepared to face the consequences. There are other more appropriate ways in which she could have vented her frustrations.
Texas Pete
February 17th, 2011
10:16 am
You people defending this teacher are about as mature as the students you feel she is justified in posting about. No one said she doesn’t have the right to post whatever she wants. Having the right to do something doesn’t protect you from the consequences of the action. If that were so, we’d be in a legal log jam forever as everyone would argue that someone is violating their every right everyday! Oh wait, we’re already at that point in society. Someone is doing something bad to me but I should be able to do whatever I want because I have right! Waaaaaaah.
This has boiled down to adults effectively arguing with kids. How silly does that look? Be the adult, keep your heads up high, and keep moving.
Let’s make a weak analogy here. Say you have a rec league baseball coach and about half of the players on the team are just not good at all for varying reasons. Should the coach blog about how bad the team is and how difficult they are making the experience? He could, but that’s also a reflection on him as a coach. One would say he can only do a good job if he has all good players to make life easy on him. A real good coach would work with the “bad players” whether the personal problem is attitude, physicall ability, or anything else and get the most out of that player. A great coach will leave the player better than he found the player. It’s all relative.
Likewise, a great teacher might get some students who for whatever reason aren’t model students but the sign of a great teacher is one who can influence the more undesireables to be better students by the end of the year. No, she doesn’t have to change every life she touches and turn everyone around but if you people really think a classroom is going to always be full of model students then you’re not living in reality. Many kids are bad. Many come from homes where they don’t get enough parental attention or maybe too much negative attention which led to the kids being “bad”. It might not be right but it’s the way it is so you can either complain on the Internet or try to do something about it. Be part of the problem or part of the solution. Natalie appears to be part of the problem.
To Natalie, I say “cry me a river” because many teachers deal with far worse than she has dealt with and they don’t all blog about it. Someone has to be the adult in the equation.
teacher
February 17th, 2011
10:18 am
The truth hurts parents. You have created monsters that you worship and you cannot deal with the realities.
Anything is possible
February 17th, 2011
10:19 am
@ motherjane
I get what your saying. However, like I said tolerance goes both ways. I think many parents are getting sick of having them and their kids lumped into the same category. Just go over to get schooled blog, the teacher are all perfection and the problem is solely parents/students. This woman was outed by someone in her inner circle. most likely becauae they were enraged by her comments.
Freedom of speech comes with a price. I am constantly amazed at what comes out of the mouths of seemingly levelheaded people these days. Again, common decency has just been tossed aside.
Do like hubby & I do, have a cocktail to unwind and vent in the privavcy of your own home. Don’t allow comments to leave the confines of your home. How hard is that to do?
Everyone seems to think their crap doesn’t stink. It’s about entitlement – I have rights or I feel entitled to say or do whatever I please — without consequences. Everything you do and or say has consequences – or has that changed?
johnny too good
February 17th, 2011
10:22 am
This is dilemma has a simple solution.
If students and parents can blog or speak about teachers……. why not allow teachers to speak as well?
anything else would be pure hypocrisy
Batgirl
February 17th, 2011
10:32 am
@Carla, thank you, thank you, thank you. I am a middle school teacher and I’m sure that your son will be a delight for his MS teachers some day. Knowing that Mom and Dad will not tolerate bad behavior goes a very long way.
I hope Ms. Munroe will be allowed to return to the classroom if she wants to. I can promise her this–A few years from now she will run into some of her troublemakers, and life will have knocked them in the head with a baseball bat. Some will be genuinely sorry for their behaviors, and, hopefully, she can forgive them. Others, however, will be just as incorrigible as they were as students. From them she can just walk away with a smile.
Valstake
February 17th, 2011
10:36 am
I stand by this teacher’s right to blog. It’s a good thing journalists aren’t held to the same standard as public school teachers and perhaps other educators; there would be no investigative reporting, no crime reporting, no anything that mentioned negative thoughts, words or deeds were the individual mentioned under the age of 18. I suppose in many cases it’s not Freedom of Speech that’s the issue it’s Expression of Opinion.
Texas Pete
February 17th, 2011
10:36 am
Wow, a lot of “get even” opinions out there and we wonder why these kids are so bad today. Why don’t we just quit half-steppin’ and live by the Code of Hammurabi? That’s the end game of what you people are looking for isn’t it? The immature students get to do something classless so why can’t teachers? Well, the teachers can lower themselves to that level but guess where that leaves them? It’s a little difficult to play the victim role when you put yourself on equal footing with the bane of your existence isn’t it?
Should adults be allowed to get away with other social ills that kids often do just for the sake of “if they can do it then why can’t we?” Seriously…act like a respected authority and maybe then maybe you’ll be treated as one.
JATL
February 17th, 2011
10:37 am
She has every right to have her blog and to say whatever she wants as long as she’s not naming names or providing graphic descriptions of students. Sounds like she hit the nail on the head as far as her students! This is how many, many of them are and their parents refuse to admit it or do anything about it -except they ALL want to sue the teachers, sue the school system, sue anyone and everyone but NEVER take any personal responsibility for the nightmare their kid has become. I think more teachers should blog just like this one! It’s time for parents to own that which they’ve created!
@Carla -thank you! If more parents were like you, then perhaps teachers wouldn’t feel the need to vent on this level! I’ve never understood not recognizing your child’s shortcomings. How else are you supposed to help them and guide them into being responsible people with a shred of integrity?
Worry!
February 17th, 2011
10:43 am
Here is an interesting story that happened to me this year in my classroom. I had given my students an assignment to work on in class for a grade. I looked up and saw one of my “angels” not doing his assignment. I asked this young man “why are you not doing your assignment?” His response to me was “I don’t feel like doing the assignment!” I reminded him (in a very nice way) that this assignment was being counted for a grade. He said to me again, “I am not doing this crap!” I said to the student, “ok, that is your choice, but you are not going to sit there and do nothing.” I told the student to go around my room and pick up any trash that was on the floor. He looked at me in class of 30 plus students and said “I am not going to pick sh*t up!” I said come again? He said “YOU HEARD ME, I am not going to pick SH*T up!” I then calmly took him up to the office. Once in the office, I informed the AP what had happened. The AP asked the young man why he refused to do his work. He responded by saying “because I did not feel like doing it!” The AP then asked the student did he say what he said in class. He responded by saying YES I did! Have to give the kid credit for not lying. The young man got 2 days ISS. Later on that day, I got an email from the mother of the student. Her response was I am sorry for how my son acted today. That was it. Being a father of four, I know if any of my children said that to a teacher, I would have been up at the school apologizing to no end to the teacher! Then when my child got home…..oh lord….it would not be good! I ask anyone who is not a teacher to come teach for one week. It will open your eyes! Until you are in the classroom TODAY, don’t pass judgment on what we have to deal with as educators on a daily basis! One more thing……these types of actions by students and much worse occurs on a daily basis! Oh yea, I do LOVE my job as an educator!
PJ
February 17th, 2011
10:46 am
I always hope that my children’s teachers act as smart, professional educators, but this blog is just plain stupidity. Who doesn’t realize, in this day and age, that one should never put anything in writing that one wouldn’t share with everyone. I respect the teacher’s right to feel the way she does about her students and even gripe to her friends and family, but once you put those feelings in writing in a publicly accessible location, you cross the line into unprofessional behavior. As a parent, I certainly would not want this teacher anywhere near my kids as she has the potential of damaging their reputations with her comments.
As for the question as to students’ rights to post negatively about teachers – the simple fact is that they are not paid, with our tax dollars, to act professionally. Our teachers have rights to act how they wish in their private lives until what they do affects their abilities to perform their jobs effectively. I want to be able to trust our teachers to have my children’s best interest at heart. I would not be able to trust a teacher who wrote such things in a place where I and others could read them.
jtom
February 17th, 2011
10:52 am
Texas Pete :
Go sit in a classroom at an average public K-12 school for just a day, then try NOT telling others how horrible some students and parents are. Then imagine having been in a classroom for several years watching a decline in civility each year – and still staying silent.
Whether diliberately or now, what the teacher is doing is equivalent to a whistleblower warning the public of how and why the school system is turning out defective products, i.e., uneducated students.
If a teacher tries to rein in a disruptive student, the parents often go to the administration and threaten to complain to the school board or sue. Neither the administration nor the school board has the desire or funds to fight the parents, so they tell the teacher to just ‘ignore’ the behavior. Who loses? The other students. Think that’s exaggerated? I heard one middle school student say (and I am NOT kidding), “My momma said I don have ta do anythin’ I don wanna, and if anyone tries to make me or do anythin’ she’ll SUE ‘em.”
Do you REALLY want that child in the same classroom with yours? Do you know what it’s like to try to give a test, and to have some of the students flagrantly cheat in front of you, knowing you’re not allowed to give them less than a ‘C’? How do you think that affects students who honestly earn a ‘C’? (sometimes the “honest C” is upgraded to a B to recognize their efforts, which means honest B students must be upgraded to an A. The honest A students? They’ll be ok because they generally measure their own performance based on its own merits, and don’t judge themselves against others).
But people like you just don’t want to hear about it. Tell me, just how are teachers suppose to give voice to what is happening in the classroom without fear of retribution from parents and administrators?
There are more and more bad teachers inflitrating the school systems because the good teachers are being initmated into leaving. You should be hoping that more teachers will speak out, not trying to silence them.
Becky Gonder
February 17th, 2011
10:56 am
If Mrs. Munroe is fired it would be a huge mistake. She is entitled to her opinion. She did not slander anyone and she did not blog on company time. Has anyone in authority at the school board taken a hard look at kids today. I for one am terrified for my grand children that some of these ‘kids’ will end up in the government. They are horrible. Rude, lazy and disrespectful. Some of the parents are to blame but not all. The media has a lot to do with it and the movies children are allowed to watch are awful. 1000 ways to die. Give me a break. No one needs to watch this among others. I personally have had an instance of meeting bad mothers. 2 children were rolling around the floor in the door way of WalMart. They were in the way. When asked to move they kicked at the shopping carts, stuck their tongue out and screamed at customers. They couldn’t have been more that 5 or 6 years old. I told the mothers to control their ‘maggots’. They will not be productive citizens.
JATL
February 17th, 2011
10:57 am
@Texas Pete -you need to spend some long days in a local high school. The only respect that is supposed to be shown, as far as most of the students and parents are concerned, is to them. They waltz into classes demanding that they be respected from day one, and any attempt to force them to follow rules or the mere suggestion that their spouting off and D- efforts aren’t cutting it means that the teachers, the administrators and any other authority figure is “disrespecting them.” Never mind that few, if any, of them have ever done anything to earn a shred of respect. They have no respect for themselves -much less anyone else, and their parents are all convinced that the little darlings are going to be music stars, pro athletes or Fortune 500 CEOs. If their child receives a bad report or a failing grade it is YOUR fault as a teacher -not the student’s and not the parent’s. If you want to know why “kids are so bad today” look no further than their homes and their parents. Teachers blogging have nothing to do with it, and more of these miscreants and their moronic parents need to hear the real deal. It may be possible to take a few students every semester or year and really turn them around (IF they have outside support as well), but when you’re dealing with 50,60, even 90% of your students being complete and total fools who have no desire to work for anything or even turn in an assignment, then it’s a little difficult to make some enormous change.
HB
February 17th, 2011
11:02 am
I feel bad for what teachers have to deal with, but I don’t have a lot of sympathy for this woman. First, I don’t believe the whole thing about it being anonymous. How did her 7 friends know it was there? She’s telling people about it. You don’t have to “follow” her blog to read it. I’m pretty sure that just alerts you if it’s updated. I have acquaintance who keeps a ridiculous, narcissistic blog that is highly entertaining. I know at least a dozen people who eagerly await new posts and share them with others — none of them “follow” her. Parents and students may not have searched for this blog — word simply may have spread and eventually got to a parent who thought it was a problem and told the school. I also don’t think it matters that she didn’t identify the students by name. She made her disdain for many students clear, and that can certainly create a hostile learning environment (a worker saying such things about colleagues could certainly be fired for contributing to a hostile work environment). She certainly has a 1st amendment right to say whatever she wants, but that doesn’t protect her from being fired if she says something that may impact her ability to do her job well.
shaggy
February 17th, 2011
11:06 am
Absolutely, this is a free speech issue, and this teacher is my new hero.
She simply spoke the truth, and I hope more teachers do the same. These are the good ones that want to teach. They care, unlike the wannabe parents that spawned these slack-jawed, entitlement babies that when asked what country begins with a “u”, answer “Utah”, and then give a dumb@– grin. These same twits know everything there is to know about celebrity culture, with major study in hip-hop criminality.
I know there are educators posting regularly here, and I know we don’t always agree, or maybe we just have vastly different points of view, however I appreciate the tough work that you do. Also, I know that the wannabe parents are most of the problem, because they don’t just encourage these bad behaviors; they mandate it to their little punks and punkettes.
If it were up to me I would pay the good teachers well and insist that they be listened to, and hold the parents accountable for little Jimmy’s insolence. Plus bring back corporal punishment, except this time bring mommy & daddy to the office, and have THEM grab their ankles.
TheTruthIsScary
February 17th, 2011
11:12 am
I’m a teacher, and her comments are spot on to what I witness in my classroom. Should she have used the curse words to describe her kids? Absolutely not. But since all descriptors are general and she’s just talking about her experiences, she should not be censored. What she writes is what comes out of teacher’s mouths all the time, but parents jump to blaming the teacher faster than looking in a mirror.
It’s a scary time to be a teacher. She shouldn’t be fired for telling the truth. She didn’t hurt anyone.
shaggy
February 17th, 2011
11:17 am
Texas Pete,
So, you actually side with the brats???? If you are a parent, I’ll just bet you are their “friend”, instead of actual parenting.
In my day, I was at war with the teachers, parents, and adults in general. I didn’t get off light from any of them, and I am thankful they didn’t try to be my “friend” and taught me something about the world. If I talked back, or exhibited brat behavior, I paid, sometimes dearly. There is another forgotten concept for this. It is called “boundaries”. You really ought to learn something about that one.
DB
February 17th, 2011
11:19 am
@Worry: My mother was a teacher for 35 years, and said she knew it was time for retirement after a particularly enlightening parent-teacher conference. Child was a monster, never did homework, smart mouth, failing, etc. Father came to a conference that included all six teachers, admin, etc. Father basically sat back and, after hearing the issues with his son, said, “Well, what do you expect ME to do about him?” Admin said, “We’re here to try to determine the best way to help Johnny succeed, and was hoping from some feedback from you.” Father shrugged and said, “Well, if you can’t keep him in line, that’s your problem, not mine.”
My mother put in for retirement the next month. She had a sense that it was all going to be downhill from there — and she was right.
That was one of the advantages of a private school — other kids’ discipline issues didn’t really infringe on your child’s learning, because if a kid didn’t behave, they were tossed out. Alcohol at a party over the weekend? Suspended or tossed (strict no alcohol policy, you agree when you sign up). Drugs? Bye-bye. Stealing? Bye-bye. Graffiti? Unhead of. Fighting didn’t exist – I don’t think I ever heard of a fight during the six years my kids were going through high school. The kids weren’t perfect, and some skated closer to the edge than others, but their mischief tended to be of the more creative variety, such as filling the principal’s office with ballooons. Of course, a private school has the luxury of being able to pick and choose their students, and for the most part, the kids value being there. That’s why I think that it would be a tremendous improvement if education in this country was considered a privilege instead of a wearisome “right’. Parents would be a lot more prone to making sure the kid toes the line if they knew that the kid would get tossed out of the “free school” for behavior issues and the parent was then responsible for homeschooling or paying for a private school (assuming they could find one that would take their little brat.)
Texas Pete
February 17th, 2011
11:28 am
jtom and JATL,
You guys have totally gone off topic but I’ll entertain your posts. I don’t think I’ve seen a single person say that many kids aren’t bad. I don’t think I’ve seen a single person say the teacher is wrong for her opinions. The only thing people like me are saying is that the teacher handled herself poorly. You see, you cannot claim that being an educator is such a noble calling if you’re going to act like the poor souls you feel so badly about. Teachers should be held to a higher standard. Do you think police should be allowed to deal in immoral and illegal actions or taint evidence and testimony with their opinions just because they are human like the rest of us? No, due to the importance of their job they must be held to a higher standard. The same applies to teachers. They are educators of children for crying out loud so due to their influence, they should be better than “bad adults” including many parents.
Now to address jtom’s comments. I come from a family of teachers including my mother who taught middle school/junior high for 30 years. I grew up spending countless days at school with her on teacher work days, preplanning, and postplanning. I used to help grade papers for her and assist her with many classroom preparation tasks as a child in elementary school all the way through high school. I’ve even seen students disrespect her. I now have a son of my own going through elementary school and I have volunteered in the classroom every year of his career. I have openly told each and every one of his teachers how drastically changed the classroom has become and thank them every year for their service to society and for dealing gracefully with what they have to endure from the “bad kids”. One thing is for sure, teachers have feelings and they vent. It’s ALWAYS been that way. I heard my mother talk about bad kids to other teachers for years but she didn’t go leaving a diary laying around for others to see or post editorals in newspapers. I have never heard of a single case where any of my son’s teachers have blogged opinion on the internet about their kids. Some of these teachers will talk face-to-face about negative experiences and that is 100% fine in my opinion because it is a private conversation.
Posting to a blog is not private. Those who believe it is are naive about Internet security and love to hide behind ever changing policy and law and the interpretations of each. Once again, if what Natalie did was so appropriate and so private, why do any of us know about it today? It was a poor choice of judgement. If we want our kids to accept responsibility for poor choices then it would help if adults like Natalie did the same.
Natalie has the right to her opinion and she is probably 100% correct in everything she’s posted about those students. However, she made her choice to blog her feelings and now she has to deal with the fallout. Blogging opinion with total immunity from consequence is not a right of free speech. That’s like you saying I or even yourself cannot post our opinions on the matter right here because she is protected. It doesn’t matter if we agree or disagree, it’s on the Internet and we can feel how we want to feel. Obviously, since this has been made public her class will know she’s talking about them. That will result in an even worse envrionment the rest of the school year. It’s not just about the bad kids vs the teacher, even the good kids will suffer from the tension in the classroom. The administration has a responsibility to allow things to cool off and figure out how to best handle this classroom for the rest of the year and Natalie beyond. The suspension is valid. I don’t think she should ultimately be fired though. It might be better for her to find a job at another school depending on how she’s viewed at that school going forward.
Worry!
February 17th, 2011
11:37 am
This is an idea on how to get parents more involved! Let’s not make public education free anymore! Ok, if your child cannot maintain a 3.0 GPA overall, then you as a parent has to pay for your child to go to school. Really and truly it is sooooo easy to maintain a B average in high school today! Now once your child has a 3.0, then you don’t have to pay! I guarantee you more parents would take an active interest in their child’s schooling. If they are a discipline problem, let’s establish a school where these students go to dig ditches all day long. Give them a shovel, a tape measure, and tell them to dig a ditch 10 feet long, 2 feet wide, and 3 feet deep. When they are done, they fill the ditch back up again. I can promise you that after a few hours of doing this, they will be dying to get back into the classroom and learn!!!!!!!!!! Just a thought!
Kate
February 17th, 2011
11:39 am
Munroe referred to her students as ‘out of control,’ ‘rude, lazy, disengaged whiners,’ and called one ‘a complete and utter jerk in all ways.’”
I could say the same thing about a lot of teachers. I certainly don’t condone students taking to the internet to write bile spewing rants on their teachers either and I don’t doubt for one second this women has dealt with more than her fair share of stupid, ill-behaved and/or hormonally challenged kids, but, unfortunately, that is part of her job. Both as an adult and a professional she should have found a better way of dealing with her frustrations than writing mean spirited remarks on a blog, even anonymously (although obviously it wasn’t too anonymous since someone was able to figure out it was her). Frankly, if this is how she feels, she needs to find a different career.
And please, no freedom of speech arguments! No one is suggesting she go to jail for what she wrote, only that there be professional consequences for her very unprofessional behavior. If I went on a blog to write a long diatribe about what a jerk my boss is, and then my boss found out about it, there is a pretty good chance I would be facing some serious consequences for my behavior at work. The fact that I wrote the blog at home, “anonymously” or that my boss really is a jerk wouldn’t be much of a defense!
Cammi317
February 17th, 2011
11:39 am
It seems that people missed the part about her blog does not say what city, state or school and she did use her full name. She also did not use any particular student’s name or situation. It was satire with a touch of honesty. I love it. Joined her blog today.
Cammi317
February 17th, 2011
11:40 am
* did not use her full name.
motherjanegoose
February 17th, 2011
11:43 am
Over 25 years ago, I was teaching in Texas. A first grade boy was angry about something and kicked me squarely in the stomach. It took me back. I was teaching at a PRIVATE school. Daddy was a big shot at the local bank in a small town.
A conference was called…tap dancing was done…fingers were pointed.
Finally, I stood up and said, ” I have one thing to say…I am not pregnant….it is a good thing too because if a 7 year old kicks a pregnant teacher in the stomach..things could get really ugly.”
I never got an apology and YES I remember the child’s name like it was yesterday. Perhaps the parents were able to grasp the ramifications….maybe not.
RJ
February 17th, 2011
11:45 am
In a few years, we are going to see more and more teachers leaving the field, and few new ones entering it. Teaching was once considered a great profession. Today, it’s more about test scores and student rights. Teachers are now the enemy in our society. If a kid can’t read, it’s the teacher’s fault. If a kid refuses to learn, it’s the teachers fault. If a kid misbehaves constantly, it’s the teacher’s responsibility to deal with it. Now we hear about parents having the right to fire teachers. What next?!
If a parent doesn’t value education, neither will the child. If a parent doesn’t instill discipline, the child won’t be disciplined. If a parents cusses at and in front of children, so will they. It’s far from rocket science!
This teacher had a right to a blog, but it wasn’t very smart. Everything that is put on the internet can be pulled by someone. I tell this to my children all the time. I am careful about everything that I say.The reality is that we live in a society that holds teachers accountable for EVERYTHING that they do, but don’t hold students accountable for much of anything. We want teachers to be LIKE preachers, doctors, lawyers, but they don’t get the same respect or pay. And yes, teachers enter the field with the understanding that they won’t ever be rich teaching, but we do expect to be treated as professionals. If I went into my doctor’s office and cussed him out, he would call the police. If I hit him, he’d call the police. Why are students allowed to get away with these some infractions and receive minimal punishment.
I feel for this teacher. I understand her frustration. She shouldn’t have put up the blog, but she shouldn’t lose her job because of it. Next time, she should get her friends together and just vent. As far as whether or not she can have a diary, that’s taking it too far. She has a right to a life! She can have a diary and write down anything she wants. I might start one today!
Tonya C.
February 17th, 2011
11:51 am
It’s funny, teachers are bashed everyday by dang near everyone with little to no recourse. A teacher who is PASSIONATE about her job and her charges actually has the cohonas to state some of the problems she sees in public education, the very things most ‘reformers’ (cough, cough…Michelle Rhee and Arne Duncan) won’t acknowledge, and she’s blasted. I’m one to be FAR more concerned about the teachers who have stopped caring altogether. Apathy is far more dangerous than the dishing of a few choice words.
@Worry, manual labor is torture didn’t you know? At least that is what some of these delusional parents seem to think (and I say this as a parent of a hormonal middle-schooler).
Tad Jackson
February 17th, 2011
11:57 am
Here’s the greatest universal truth in education, and the word “universal” means it’s the truth for every kid and parent on Earth regardless of culture or country: a parent can’t necessarily teach their child calculus or chemistry, but they can surely teach their children manners and social skills. At first, no one knows your financial, educational, or professional status, but they sure can tell pretty darn quick if you’ve got some couth.
Worry!
February 17th, 2011
12:01 pm
LOL Tonya C! I am sorry. I guess I am old school in that I did manual labor growing up as a kid….mowing lawns, working construction, scouting cotton in south ga during the summer, etc.
Tonya C.
February 17th, 2011
12:07 pm
@Worry. Spring is coming, so trust and believe me when I say my son is gonna get some serious muscles if his father and I have anything to do with it!
Is blogging about ‘whiny students’ bad? – Wine Country Mom - Santa Rosa Mom - Santa Rosa, CA - Archive
February 17th, 2011
12:08 pm
[...] speech, and the ethics of being a role model for children. The blog (that she claims only had 7 followers – herself and her husband included) was initially taken down, but as of last night was put [...]
Worry!
February 17th, 2011
12:12 pm
@Tonya…….Can I teach your child?????? Please!!!!!!!!! Thank you for doing your job as a parent! Don’t get me wrong….I care for all my students! I just wish I had more parents like you!
DB
February 17th, 2011
1:59 pm
@MJG: In the stomach? In retrospect, wouldn’t it have been fun to grab the little brat’s ankle as he kicked and up-end him on his butt on the floor?
My son had one incident that involved a known bully in elementary school, which resulted in a concussion for my son after a series of escalating bullying. School tried to minimize it, until I pulled out my cell phone and said pleasantly, “Either we solve this now, or the police solve it an hour from now — your choice. I think I can time it so that the police show up right around car-pool time.”
The child was withdrawn from school for two weeks of observation, finished out the school year, and ended up at a private school the next year known for dealing with kids with behavioral and learning issues. It was a good move for him — and for everyone he left behind. Except his parents never said another word to me for the next six years, as if it was MY fault that their little monster was a psycho. Meh.
Tiger Ochocinco Mellencamp
February 17th, 2011
1:59 pm
i’m with Kate. She had the right to blog, fine. But her employer has the right to say that action was outside their professional standards and discipline her.
This teachers actions undermine the ability for parents to be confident that they are entitled to any sense of confidentiality when it comes to their children. It undermines the trust that parents have with the school administration……and that is detrimental to the long term ability of the school to acheive it’s mission.
I don’t care about the kids who got her wrath or their parents. I care about parents like me who take an active role with their kids discipline and his interaction with his teachers. If this happened in my kid’s school, I would be very concerned about an administration who said to me “hey, if you’re kid has problems here, we just want you to know that we support our teachers rights to blog about your kid’s problems provided they don’t specifically identify him”
the bottom line is, her actions violated professional standards that have detrimental consequences to her school and that is enough for her to be disciplined. It’s not like this was a whistleblower incident where someone was doing something illegal, she just didn’t like some of her kids and decided to vent on them in a public forum.
It seems to me those that are celebrating this teacher’s actions are just happy that the type of kids (and those kids parents) they hate have been “outed” by this teacher. Kind of that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” philosophy. And maybe that’s a legit argument as to why you’re glad she did it, but to then say that you’re glad she did somehow equates her actions to professional civil disobedience doesn’t hold water with me.
Amanda
February 17th, 2011
2:06 pm
Keep your problems to yourself. Write it in your own personal diary, or if you feel the need to tell someone, talk about it with your husband. This is a perfect example of how the internet is public, and if you don’t want certain people to see it, then don’t write it at all. Also, the reason her kids are so bad is probably because she is a bad teacher. Being a student myself, I know that 95% of the time, the kids treat the teacher the same way the teacher treats the kid. Lastly, if you can’t handle being a teacher and think your kids are so bad then QUIT, do not “blog” about it.
motherjanegoose
February 17th, 2011
2:14 pm
DB…yes, that was pre-children when I had a very flat stomach…LOL.
Wake up call
February 17th, 2011
2:18 pm
Lets be honest, many of you teachers are parents BUT you probably consider yourselves and your children exceptions to the the rule! The hypocrisy here is just incredible. The majority of you have put this teacher out there as some sort of Icon, which really resonates as to your individual character. According to many of you, this is the way you feel about ALL of your students.
This is a big eye opener, to know what you really think! It doesn’t matter if mine is well behaved, respectful to ALL, and a good student – to many of you my child is a piece of garbage.
So continue to speak up, it is your “right” and you might as well lay all your cards out on the table. This could be a real turning point in education, but don’t expect it to be in your favor. This only gives the powers that be another reason to make your job harder and your pay that much lower. Munroe and her comments, with your support and high-fives, could very well be the nail in your coffin. Sometimes you don’t have to look past the person you see in the mirror to find your own worst enemy!
Loose lips sink ships and Munroe could very well be your Titanic!
Pot / Kettle
February 17th, 2011
2:22 pm
You know what they say about preacher’s kids
… teacher’s kids are probably no different!
Tiger Ochocinco Mellencamp
February 17th, 2011
2:25 pm
For those sticking up for this teacher, would you also stick up for a priest who anonymously blogged about his anonymous parishoner’s confessions?
Seems to me that meets all the same criteria of why this teacher gets a free pass.
Tonya C.
February 17th, 2011
2:45 pm
@Tiger: I’ll bite. I’m Catholic, and have NEVER believed that my priest didn’t whisper stuff to other priests, or heck, even other people. Most priests drink, and everyone knows liquor loosens lips. As long as he doesn’t name names, who would know it’s me? Meh, in the information age I’m just not as concerned as others when the names are kept confidential. I know my own children, my son in fact, was the topic of many a teacher’s conversations because he suffered from ADHD and undiagnosed autism. A lot of people probably know about him that never met him, and wouldn’t be able to point to him as a source of the stories if they met me on the street. And I can’t blame his teachers for it.
@Wake Up Call: I’m always amazed at the people who will come out of the woodwork for stuff like this, but blogs about RTTT, slashing budgets, and student achievement sit with 10 comments. The direction that teaching is headed in is so bad, there isn’t much else left on the table to threaten teachers with. Low pay…already in the process. Increased class sizes…done. Held accountable for all of society’s ills…got it.
The good kids are appreciated, I know that for a fact. But the disruption caused by those unwilling or uninterested in learning compounds until teachers feel like this. If she didn’t care, TRUST ME, she wouldn’t write. I think that she would have been smarter to keep it off the internet until she could write a book and become the next hot thing in education reform, but whatever.
Situations like this would be far less likely to happen if teachers were treated as stakeholders in the education process and valued as professionals. But calling teaching, in its current form, a profession seems to be a stretch. What other ‘profession’ does every in the world think they are talented enough to do without any formal training? A job, a career, and a labor of love–yep.
motherjanegoose
February 17th, 2011
2:48 pm
@ wake up…I apologize profusely if I EVER came across as not liking ALL children. I love most children and there are many children and parents who are simply delightful…here is one that came to mind from this past week…it was a 3 year old:
“I just wanted to tell you that my Daddy reads me a story every night before he tucks me in to bed.”
I replied,” tell your Daddy that I think he is one incredible Dad.!”
So, If you are this Dad…CONGRATULATIONS…you are doing just what you need to be doing, in my book! I loved meeting your son and it shows that he adores you too!
LOL when my Mom was alive she shared this silly saying that nurses typically have messy houses and teachers often naughty kids. Well, my ( nurse) sister has a cleaner house than me and while our kids were all toots at times, they have grown up to be decent young adults.
My daughter just called me today and told me that an adult, we both know, texted her to tell her that she recommended her for a job at a business another adult ( whom this friend knows) is opening. If my kids were slackers and rude, I do not think this would be happening. They both know how to work and relate well with others in a job.
Tiger Ochocinco Mellencamp
February 17th, 2011
2:52 pm
@Tonya C….so let’s say that priest you confessed to wrote a blog about it. And I’ll take you for your word that you don’t care. But let’s say that your parishoner before you cared, and other parishoners cared, and they decided to stop tything to your church and went in droves to the Lutheran church down the road. I think the real question is, do you think it would be ok for the archdiocese of the district that your church fell under to tell your priest to shut down his blog?