Good touch, bad touch: How to explain TSA pat-downs to kids?
If you’re getting ready to travel with your kids for Thanksgiving you may want to have a little discussion about pat-downs before you arrive at the airport security line.
We spend a good portion of our parenting time telling our children not to let strangers touch them, yet they may have to allow a stranger (in theory with good intentions) pat them down if they want to fly to see Grandma.
Babble.com picked up from the LA Times explanations of the TSA rules involving screenings and pat-downs: (There is more info on the LA Times link.)
“1. A child under 12 who opts out of the body scanner will undergo “a modified pat-down search.” Children over 12 who opt out of the body scanner get the regular pat-down. Citing security reasons, the TSA has declined to say what the modified pat-down entails.
2. If an alarm goes off during a screening (as with the aforementioned 3-year-old), even children under 12 will be subject to a full pat-down.
3. To prepare kids, explain the procedures they may encounter ‘including the possibility that they may be touched by TSA personnel as part of a pat-down. Parents won’t necessarily be with their kids as they pass through the scanner or get patted down,’ according to The Los Angeles Times.
4. You might also check out the TSA’s advanced imaging technology web page to show your kids what the full-body scan entails.”
Here is more information on traveling with kids though the safety checkpoints from the TSA.
Here is the latest statement from the TSA Administrator John S. Pistole.
I have never been patted-down at the airport but Rose was when she was a 1-year-old at a small airport in Colorado. It was a little more than a year after 9/11. I just remember them patting down her diaper and we kind of thought it was funny at the time. I guess if she was older and aware of them doing it I wouldn’t haven’t been chuckling. In fact, now that she’s developing if anybody tried to touch her I would probably go ballistic. I’m glad I’m not flying for the holidays.
So what do you think: Should the TSA be patting down kids? Would you rather them go through the full-body scans or be patted down? Will you have a discussion about the pat-downs prior to flying? What’s your plan if it happens?
- by Theresa Walsh Giarrusso, Momania blog
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141 comments Add your comment
justmy2cents
November 22nd, 2010
9:42 am
Easy- the safety of them is not known…PLUS as graphic as these images are, what stops the TSA from taking cell phone pics? They are equipped with ethernet connection (WHY???), and I am sure there is probably a usb port on there for them to d/l to flash drive. If she is on her period, is she going to get singled out because a dumb TSA agent can’t figure out the different between a pad and/or tampon and a concealed explosive device?
Just bring in the friggin’ bomb/drug sniffing dogs. Again I say…since EVERYONE is not subjected to the same screening process; security is not guaranteed AT ALL, and it is too easy to circumvent. If everyone is so gung ho to give up their rights, this is indeed a scary world we live in. This is not the country I fought for and defended when I was in the service. Ughh, disgusting.
DCMommy
November 22nd, 2010
9:42 am
“First of all, you or your child will have to set off the metal detector before being subjected to either the pat down or the scanner”
laker – This is NOT true. The metal detectors are being phased out. The scanners are going to be replacing them. Right now, most airports don’t have enough of the scanners, so they are using both. But the idea is that the metal detectors are going away. It will be the body scanners and the pat-downs. Period. And if they see anything on the scanner, the individual gets a full pat-down, regardless of age.
They are still in the phase-in period, so if you traveled a few weeks ago, it is possible that you did not get the new and “improved” pat-down procedure. A family member of mine also had a knee replacement and is used to the pat-down process every time he flies. He flew out of Dallas this weekend and said the new pat-down is MUCH more intrusive.
Once it is completely phased in at all airports, everyone will have two choices – scanning or full pat-down. Some airports are still lagging behind others, especially smaller airports.
JATL
November 22nd, 2010
9:48 am
According to the local news and the TSA last night, at Hartsfield you’ll only get the “extra” scanning if you don’t clear the regular x-ray machines. I know this is in conflict with what the article says, but it’s what I heard on 11 Alive at 11:30 last night. If you refuse the scan -then you get the pat down. So have your kid scanned IF he or she doesn’t clear the x-ray. If you or your kids don’t set off the regular x-ray -no problem. Here’s a good idea -make sure they don’t have metal on them. It’s not that hard to do with little kids. Also, be very clear about the “pictures” the scanners take. The only people who would be able to get off on these are those turned on by strangely alien-looking, hairless, white, blob-shaped people. Not that pervs with this exact fetish don’t exist somewhere, but chances are it’s a pretty niche group and they’re not working as TSA officers.
@runningman and others -while it would be GREAT to be able to do security like Israel, it is simply not possible in a nation this size with this much air traffic. Israel’s airport is slightly behind the Cincinnati/Kentucky airport in numbers of travelers per year. When you fly out of Israel, you are interviewed for 20-30 minutes by a HIGHLY TRAINED (and somewhat intelligent) security officer. They ask you all sorts of questions -some quite strange (to you) -because they know what can and will set off certain “signals” in subversive people. They won’t hesitate to hold you, make you miss your flight, etc. while they up the interview process to the next level. That’s all fantastic, except it would completely shut down air travel in the USA. Can you imagine this process at Hartsfield or O’Hare for EVERY SINGLE PERSON? Plus, you have to have security officers who are intelligent and well-trained. That means higher paid officers and thousands more of them. It also means that you can’t have our current level of TSA officer who chose between airport security or working the drive through window at Burger King. What I would love to hear is what Israel would do for security if they had as many air travelers as we do. How would they go about running effective screening?
I just find all the hysteria QUITE ironic, since the most out-of-sorts folks are the SAME people who were so gung-ho for the Patriot Act to be instituted. Guess what folks -that little piece of legislation opened the gateway for this kind of BS. Most of you are also the same people who would freak out and be foaming at the mouth about “lax” security measures if a plane got blown to bits or crashed into another building. No, I don’t like it -although the scanners really don’t bother me at all. Look at some REAL pictures of what the person looking sees -I don’t see a problem. You’re receiving so much daily radiation from your microwaves and cell phones that to flip out because you think these scanners are going to give you cancer is pathetic.
As far as my kids (or myself) and pat downs -if someone refuses the scanner or obviously has something in their crotch that shows up on it -then sorry, they NEED to be patted down -intimately! If you refuse -I think that should be your right, but you don’t get to fly. If you refuse the scan -that’s a BIG red flag. For all they know you have the barrel of a pistol stuck somewhere VERY interesting and the handle in the crotch of your underwear. As far as children go -they should be able to do a regular pat-down and be fine with it. YOU can tell your kids that in order for everyone to fly safely and no bad guys to bring anything on the plane, that the officer is going to touch them down the sides of their bodies and the insides of their arms and legs. Tell them it’s okay because you are right there, but if anyone ever touches them like that when you’re not around -it’s NOT okay! I do draw the line at the breast cupping and genital groping for kids (although I do think diapers should be checked with a “look” like you would check for pee or poop -just pull the front and back of the diaper out an have a peek),and it should only be done by same-gender officers. All of you SHOULD realize though that there are boys in Al Quada camps who are 12 and 14. Suicide bombers obviously don’t care if they kill children. The 9-11 terrorists obviously weren’t concerned about killing any kids in buildings or on planes. Once someone’s brain crosses into the “terrorist” category -they will send their kid on a flight with a bomb strapped to them. They simply DO NOT CARE. We can’t give free passes to children, old people and pregnant women. Google “Hindawi Affair” for a good reason why! Also -2 weeks ago the Asian guy who disguised himself as an old white man breezed through security with no problems.
I’m not gung-ho for this kind of security. I’m more of a libertarian than anything and do not like government invading my private space, BUT when I buy a plane ticket and get on a plane, I’m basically saying that I will submit to the rules and regulations of the TSA and the airline I’m flying. I think terrorists will blow up a plane if they really want to blow up a plane, but some of the “lesser-thinking” of them can be caught and disaster prevented by extremely tight airport security -and part of that means they need to know if you’re hiding anything on your “person.”
mom2alex&max
November 22nd, 2010
9:54 am
JATL: so no, I won’t be buying a plane ticking and submitting to this illegal process. And I hope that enough like minded people to the same and start applying pressure to the idiots that are the “front lines” of TSA. Have you SEEN them??? I wouldn’t trust them to guard my dog house, let alone the security of this country.
motherjanegoose
November 22nd, 2010
9:56 am
@ from Neal Boortz today…last week he said this:
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE AIRLINES
I mentioned this is my previous post, which was deleted and not yet restored by TWG.
Neal Boortz is both a pilot and an attorney, so he may just know more about this that many others.
FACT our government is trying to control us in more ways than one.
Did anyone see the guest Rabbi on Glenn Beck last week? I do not usually watch the show but the discussion by the Rabbi on stones and bricks for the Tower of Babel was absolutely fascinating. He was showing how history repeats itself and that our government is trying to make us all into little bricks, so that we all look alike and think alike. We are no longer going to be stones…shaped differently and with different strengths to contribute to society. I was more than intrigued. I learned a lot and it was fascinating.
motherjanegoose
November 22nd, 2010
10:01 am
@JATL…your long post is in today and my earlier post is OUT…too funny! I hope TWG will let mine back in. Yes, I will still fly or I will be unemployed….not much of a choice for me.
GTFOH
November 22nd, 2010
10:04 am
I have a 4yo daughter and a 2yo daughter. I work for an airline but there will be no flying for us as a family until this policy is banned. And that’s sad because my oldest likes to fly. She enjoys going to the airport and looking out at the planes and getting a window seat. But no way will I allow them to go through a scanner without me and heck no, some random person (TSA or not) is going to pat them down.
I would imagine you’d have crying babies all day at the security check point. For those that feel this is okay, there should probably be a seperate line for parents, especially at Hartsfield.
I on the other hand would probably go through the scanner. I’ve never had a full body pat down and I don’t want one quite frankly. I haven’t committed a crime ever and don’t plan to. I value my life and freedom too much to do so.
Although I’m not for this new policy, I do understand the measures. You want to be sure that passengers are safe. That our country is safe. But government allows these people to come here and start a life. I’m a married, American born woman with two children. I work. I pay my taxes. I’ve never harmed a soul and have no intention. I don’t deal with people who do so (not to my knowledge anyway).
Does it frighten me that people here might want to cause not just myself, but my children harm? Yes. It pisses me off more so because I don’t care who you worship. I don’t care how you worship. I don’t care if you worship. It’s your life. I worship God. And he’s a loving God. And any god that says you must kill, isn’t a real god.
I think about all these countries that don’t just allow Americans to visit. They have all these rules and regulations. Well, where are our rules and regulations? Why must we suffer? It’s gotten so bad that we can’t even trust our own.
TSA has a job to do but I think they need to find a better way. I’m not for the scanner because you don’t know the long term effects of such a thing. And it just seems like we woke up one day and here they are. And we have the ‘either/or’ option. That’s a big change and you’re having humans do these pat downs which could still lead to human error.
Ugh. Good think my aunt only lives in Texas. I think we’ll take a road trip for the next visit. Seems like quality family time will be a good thing for us.
JATL
November 22nd, 2010
10:08 am
@catlady -exactly!
@mom2alex&max -actually, the people who you want “racially profiled” would include many, many Israelis. Anyone with dark or olive skin who looks in any way Middle Eastern or has a Muslim-sounding name -isn’t that it? The Israeli system of profiling is completely different from what we term “racial profiling.” Let’s see:
Richard Reed, the shoe bomber -British citizenship and 1/2 African / 1/2 white -and that Richard Reed name doesn’t sound very Muslim to me.
Ann Marie Murphy -Irish -stereotypically so w/red hair and freckles. Terrorist fiance planted bomb in her suitcase lining and she VERY NEARLY got through Israeli security, but one of their bag x-rays showed something strange in her suitcase. She was also pregnant.
Let’s not forget those home-grown jokers like Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski or Eric Robert Rudolph. Don’t think they would’ve tried a plane? Who knows -they obviously had no problems with killing large groups of people or children. Others like them could hop on a plane any time.
And let’s don’t forget that latest trickster -the young Asian guy who disguised himself as an old white man -although he didn’t board in the US -no one here would suspect a thing, given the photo of him in disguise. He wasn’t a terrorist, but it certainly shines a glaring light into a great way for them to get through security!
Even George W. Bush was enraged that one of his Secret Service guards got deplaned for no other reason than “he made the flight crew nervous” because he was an Arab-American. Racial profiling doesn’t work. The minute you rely on it, some one who doesn’t fit the profile sneaks in and blows you sky high.
motherjanegoose
November 22nd, 2010
10:15 am
@GTFOH…
as an airline employee….
Is this the airline’s fault?
Will you have a job if all other families all decide to boycott the airlines? Say 10,000 families nationally with 3 per family?
Have you lost your mind….quality family time and road trips of 10-15 hours do not belong in the same sentence IMHO. Maybe you live in Memphis and the trip is shorter….LOL. Glad mine are in college and can share driving with us.
JATL
November 22nd, 2010
10:20 am
@mom2alex&max -yes, I’ve seen the TSA agents. That’s why I think the scanners are a good idea. Most of the agents aren’t competent enough, in my opinion, to effectively check people, so I like the idea of these scanners. People need to look at what they really show. I find the hysteria over the scanners to be laughable. Really -people think the TSA agents are taking cell phone pix of their scanned image? Even if they posted one all over the internet, you wouldn’t be able to identify the person! Get scanned and you don’t have to be patted down. According to most of the folk’s reactions here, you would think the TSA was staffed soley by ex-cons with sexual predator and child molestation charges who were chomping at the bit to fondle everyone they can get their hands on. Have you thought about it from their perspective? Would you like to intimately touch most people you see in an airport? GROSS! The general population isn’t that pretty and many of them don’t smell very good.
I do agree with bomb-sniffing and explosive sniffing (this includes plastics) dogs. You have to understand though -if a dog, for some reason, signals on you -you’re going to be SEARCHED -and I mean really, really searched -as in a private room and a guy with latex gloves…
abc
November 22nd, 2010
10:26 am
Stuff like this illustrates how successful the terrorists have been, and continue to be. They don’t have to do a thing to inspire terror; just let the government do it for them. They’ve shown Americans to be the biggest bunch of sissies and chickens ever — and more than willing to give up the oft-trumpeted freedoms and privacies in a heartbeat.
GTFOH
November 22nd, 2010
10:28 am
@mothergoose
since i work for an airline, i have the option to fly for free. i’ve flown more in the last few years than many business travelers. i didn’t say airlines had any say in the new policy. only idiots think this is so. i’ve worked in the airline industry long enough to know the difference between an airline and TSA. thank you for your clarification.
boycotting the airline would be a good step. it would then push TSA to make changes to their policy. not a bad idea. and my mind is in tact and the elevator goes to the top. thank you very much. but i’m guessing your’s is in need of service.
quality time from Atlanta to Austin once a year to visit my family that i will now not see as often thanks to this new TSA policy. yes that’s exactly what i said. movies and songs. historic sites. stopping off at hole in the wall joints to pick up the best bbq in Miss or Ala. I think we’ll be fine. but feel free to get your panties wet by some nasty tsa person who probably hasn’t had a thorough background check themselves.
motherjanegoose
November 22nd, 2010
10:28 am
@ JATL…I was in the Orlando airport about 5 years ago and having a chat with the lady next to me, as she was an English professor. We were at the gate and waiting for the plane. The sniffing dog came down the terminal and made a beeline to my carry on suitcase. The lady next to me scooted over ( probably did not want to be associated with me) and the gentleman with the leash stood their patiently. I DID NOT have anything illegal in my bag but I did have dog hair from my labrador as he always checked on my suitcase when I was getting ready to leave and while I packed. The man smiled when I told him I had a lab at home and then left with the dog, after seeing there was no problem.
A bit unnerving for me but not big deal!
Fond memories of Ole Yellar, who we put down 3 years ago…may he rest in peace! We had him for 13 years!
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November 22nd, 2010
10:31 am
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Photius
November 22nd, 2010
10:32 am
Ah, Mother Jane Goose… remember your beloved Boortz and Glenn Beck are simply entertainers, not to be used for content. Since you fly often I’m sure you pick up the New York Times or Wall Street Journal and have read in the last 30 days:
- A bomb was sent from Yemen; the Arabian Peninsula is the next phase in this war as this is the new hotbed of terrorism; the US currently has Predator drones flying above Yemen and they have conducted missile strikes on several occasions. The bomb had a timer on it to explode over the crowded US Eastern corridor.
- Another bomb was sent from Namibia to Germany, simply as a dry run to study security capabilities. Al Queda in the Arabian Peninsula now is testing western security capabilities.
- Germany today closed the Reichstag Dome due to terrorist threats
- Pat downs are here to stay, Mother Jane Goose.
- The next terrorist attack will be a Cyber Attack.
GTFOH
November 22nd, 2010
10:32 am
So now all a terrorist who is adament about blowing up a plane just needs a dog to roll around in his/her carry-on. Oh great. What’s next, cat hair to throw off the sniffing dogs. Sheesh…
catlady
November 22nd, 2010
10:35 am
mom2: The Israelis do a lot of stuff that we are surprised about. I think their advantage is they know that much of the world will step in if they need help, and, everyone knows they mean business. I don’t think we have that reputation, nor that degree of support from the rest of the world.
As to your first point, don’t forget thalydomide. Given to pregnant women for nausea, then found to cause horrible birth defects.
JATL
November 22nd, 2010
10:39 am
@MJG -yes, I too, have been approached by drug -sniffing dogs on a flight from Jamaica. No drugs on me, but the dog came over BUT it didn’t signal. However, you can bet, if it’s an EXPLOSIVES sniffing dog in this day and age and they signal on YOUR BODY -you’re getting searched and searched HARD. If they signal on your bag -they’re going to pretty much tear it apart searching as well. I don’t know if the dog you encountered was for drugs, bombs or forbidden agricultural products/exotic animals, but it could have just been out on a training exercise and sniffing isn’t the same as signaling. Also, the dog handlers are not regular TSA agents. They are actually trained with their dogs and the dogs have special signals they give (lie down, sit, look or move their heads in certain ways) to indicate they’ve found something -just because they sniff at you or your bag doesn’t really mean much. The dog has to give its signal.
abc
November 22nd, 2010
10:39 am
Photius, what do you imagine a cyber attack to be? The sum total of ‘cyber attacks’ against government targets so far amounts to nothing more than web site redirection or defacement — that’s only possible because of the ineptitude and/or inattention of those tasked with administering the sites themselves. Attacks on infrastructure/power grid etc. have been ineffective due to wide variety of custom software used to operate them. There isn’t any confidentiality, but there isn’t a whole lot of vulnerability, either — at least, not from so-called ‘cyber attack’.
Don’t believe everything you read about it. Keep in mind it’s a bunch of bureaucrats that have no idea what they’re really talking about.
JATL
November 22nd, 2010
10:42 am
@GTFOH -seriously? These dogs are highly trained and not “thrown off” by animal hair. They may sniff it, but they don’t signal it as something searchable. The dogs are actually quite amazing. They’ve saved many lives in Iraq and Afghanistan and the search dogs do the same thing when buildings have collapsed, etc. I would venture to guess that the average trained “sniff” dog used in security, search and rescue, police or military operations is far smarter than most TSA agents.
catlady
November 22nd, 2010
10:45 am
Eh, now one of my posts has bitten the dust!
motherjanegoose
November 22nd, 2010
10:47 am
GTFOH…I am Gold Medallion, maybe with your airline. I may not fly as much as you do but I do fly quite a bit. I have been in airports in all 50 states. I work for myself and if my elevator did need service, I would not have a job as each person who hires me does so solely based on what I know.
Many presume this is the airlines fault and I wanted to hear something from an insider, sorry if you were offended. If you do not need to worry about your job that is great…some others might.
When Eastern struck…they won….but they did not have their jobs. In the end Frank Lornenzo won.
Boycotts can come on any industry for any reason and employees suffer. Those of us who have lived here for a while remember this.
We can’t fight the government, so now we force collateral damage? Never underestimate the power of uninformed people in numbers.
If road trips for hours, in the car, are always joyful for you then you obviously have done something right with your kids. Good for you! I love my kids but never liked long road trips with them. We fly.
mom2alex&max
November 22nd, 2010
10:47 am
JATL: I’m not going to change my mind and you are not going to change yours. I find this whole procedure morally reprehensible, ethically wrong and unconstitutional. I am not going to pay my hard earned money for a plane ticket only to be treated like a common criminal. TSA finds a better way or believe you me, I’m not the only one that will stop flying.
When enough people are outraged and stop flying, the airlines will turn on the pressure and the procedure will change. And really, we will not be ANY safer OR unsafer than before.
I’m not getting groped and I am not risking my health or privacy on one of those body scans. And that’s how the terrorists have already won. They have ALREADY stripped us of the precious freedoms we have been fighting for.
gonetoofar
November 22nd, 2010
10:50 am
Muslim Women don’ have to be patted down. I think I will start a business to sell Hijabs to American Women and little girls!
Muslim Group Advises Women Wearing Hijabs to Allow TSA ‘Enhanced Pat Downs’ Only on Head and Neck Area
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/muslim-group-advises-women-wearing-hijab
motherjanegoose
November 22nd, 2010
10:54 am
@JATL…I am with you on the dog sniffing. Fascinating stuff. I knew it would not be a problem, as the signals given were benign. Just got a kick out of it.
I also concur:
I would venture to guess that the average trained “sniff” dog used in security, search and rescue, police or military operations is far smarter than most TSA agents.
@GTOFH..the airlines employ you, after your comment about dog sniffing…whose elevator has a problem? Hope you work for Air Tran….LOL.
@photius…the Rabbi was the one I was fascinated with and he ( I presume) is not an entertainer.
Ya think?
@lakerat….any comments on the demise of Eastern…you surely know more than I would.
HB
November 22nd, 2010
10:56 am
Interesting side note: a scientist proposed a simple imaging technique to help ease privacy concerns back in 2006. Basically, the pictures would be distorted to the point that the image would not resemble the person being x-rayed, but would still show the threats they can see on the current pictures. That doesn’t address concerns over health risks that scanners may pose, but I think this would have made a lot more people feel ok about the scans.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/21/AR2010112104456.html?hpid=topnews
MJG, I’m confused about your repeatedly saying the policy is not the airlines’. So what? I think we all know that, but you seem to think that’s a reason not to boycott. If people are uncomfortable with the procedures, they aren’t going to buy tickets and subject themselves and their children to them anyway because “airlines didn’t create the policy.” And yes, the airlines and related travel businesses are the ones that will suffer, but that will likely pressure TSA to come up with procedures that most travelers are comfortable with.
Photius
November 22nd, 2010
10:59 am
ABC, Defense Secretary Gates last week speaking at the WSJ’s CEO Council said the threat of Cyber Attacks is “huge”. Simply read about the Stuxnet complex computer worm, likely placed into Iranian nuclear computers to destroy center fuses via the Mossad. Russia successfully waged Cyber War against Estonia and Georgia effectively shutting down all computer transmissions which would effect everything in our lives. As reported in the NYT’s China has been testing United States computer infrastructure systems, mapping our electrical grid, water treatment facilities and air traffic control. China also hacked into Obama’s and McCain’s campaign headquarters in 2008 copying all their information. Now imagine a Cyber Attack on Morgan Stanley or Citi…. Imagine if the attacker simply deleted $4 trillion dollars in daily assets? The Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, said last week “there is a huge future threat, and a considerable current threat from Cyber Attacks.” Pat downs are here to stay and Cyber Attacks are coming.
GTFOH
November 22nd, 2010
11:08 am
I’m fairly young so I don’t know much about Eastern. But as a people we must inform those who are uninformed. The man at TSA is just that…a man making a decision for the majority. It doesn’t mean he can’t be wrong. It doesn’t mean there aren’t better ways to do target those that need to be targeted without making everyone feel like a common criminal. Are you all serious? This is what it comes to? This will be the norm going forth? Do I need to get a Hijab for my daughters and myself for travel purposes? Do I refuse to take them to see parts of the world because of this? There has to be too much outrage for this to continue. I don’t plan to be violated.
And yes @mjgoose, my girls are well behaved. But it doesn’t mean my 2yo won’t require a break. But those are the sacrifices we have to take. And as far as the new policies with TSA, we haven’t discussed them here in our offices. As we too have to follow the rules or opt out. I plan to opt out.
And at JATL as much as I’ve flown I’ve only once been put in the clear box and I was pregnant at that time. I’m mindful about what I pack and wear. TSA agents aren’t highly educated. They do what they are told. And some not as well as the few. And considering I’m not fond of dogs, I’ll do what I need to steer clear of them too.
mom2alex&max
November 22nd, 2010
11:12 am
@gonetoofar: that’s just flipping great. I wonder what would happen if *I* made a stink and refused to be touched on religious principles!!!
GD it; they HAVE already won!
GTFOH
November 22nd, 2010
11:16 am
It’s amazing how comfortable you all are in dogs and their ability to sniff out mess. But @mjgoose was approached thanks to old yeller. I’m sure some idiot willing to blow his own brains out could use such a story to convince a dog and his handler of how non-threatening he/she may be. Not every person with ill intentions are of dark or olive skin tone. But did anyone forget 9/11? Do you all remember all the stories of people who have been caught with explosives on a plane? And I don’t work for AirTran you dope. But does that mean they are incompetent? AirTran, Southwest, Delta, NW, etc., etc., still have nothing to do with this new policy. Now are you sure that your elevator reaches the top floor. Madoff made a lot of money who thought his elevator reached the top. If it did, he wouldn’t be sitting where he is today.
MrLiberty
November 22nd, 2010
11:19 am
Why don’t you begin by explaining that laws don’t apply to the government or its employees, but only to the citizens, Explain to them that what the TSA is doing to children is just legalized child molestation and legalized sexual assault of adults. It is illegal for adults to do this outside of the screening area and it should be illegal to do what the TSA is doing but that’s how government works are why government is such an evil thing.
Explain to them how mommy and daddy sat on the sidelines while Bush and his gang of war criminals destroyed the Bill of Rights and the constitution because mommy and daddy were too lazy and too scared to do some investigating of their own on the internet to find out how events like 9-11 are abused by every government in history as vehicles for consolidating power in the hands of government and for destroying the rights of the people. Explain to them how you were too busy to get out and protest the war, the invasions, the Patriot Act and how looking good in the eyes of your friends and neighbors was more important than taking a stand.
Explain to them that we did not get here overnight but that this slow erosion of rights has been going on for decades and decades and that you were too busy with your careers and watching sports to care about what folks up in washinton were doing to their future. I’m sure your kids will understand. Afterall, the government only does things for the good of the citizens right??? Maybe you could also give your kids a history lesson about the 200 million of their own citizens that governments killed during the 20th century alone.
Just boycott air travel until the TSA is gone and sanity is returned. Its the least you could do since you didn’t do anything to try and stop this (oh, and don’t say you voted for Kerry, Gore, or Obama). Its clear how Obama is working out and Gore and Kerry would have been just as bad. If you actually voted Libertarian or for Ron Paul, you definitely get a pass on this one, but then that shows you weren’t just sitting on the sidelines hoping everything would be ok.
Mark
November 22nd, 2010
11:21 am
Boycott Flying COMPLETELY, until sanity returns! Please join us: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Flying/126801010710392
joey
November 22nd, 2010
11:27 am
This is a perverse thing that the TSA is doing. It is not okay to touch people in the name of security. The Germans before WWII insisted that their invasion of other companies was for security, or leavenscram, “living space”. When the Germans decided to rid the business districs of the jews it was for protecting the popluation from the “evil devil banker jews”. Security can be used by powers to rid people of their rights, and it is the case here! Wake up people, no more TSA, no more terror by our goverment against ourselves! We did not crash the planes in the buildings, it could happen again, that is life, do not tread on our freedoms to create a “safe” police state. The TSA has gone over the cliff and it seems no one wants to speak up for thier erroronous ways in our goverment. That is very scary, do not accept these security measures at all. It is not right to touch children in such ways, just gross!
Seriously...
November 22nd, 2010
11:28 am
How about this dammit. I’m just not flying. It’s hard enough to trust if the planes are safe (enough fuel, proper maintenance)in the air. Now I have to worry about what the dog smells, if the TSA agent is a pedophile, if I should consider a Hijab for travel purposes, the long term effects of this body scanner, how some idiot with a GED may touch my child if the scanner goes off. I imagine the people flying or arguing about why you should fly don’t have small children.
mom2alex&max
November 22nd, 2010
11:32 am
@Seriously: you are being generous assuming they even have GEDs.
abc
November 22nd, 2010
11:36 am
Mr. Gates overstates the obvious. Network Security is my business. Campaign organizations run by newbies is low-hanging fruit, and nothing critical; systems in the Eastern Hemisphere are primitive and more likely to break down of their own accord than to succumb to electronic attack.
The real folly is to rely upon networks for issues of national security. Certainly, the American power grid and electronic financial infrastructure could be pinpointed and hacked, but the effect wouldn’t be as great as some let on. Effective attack from afar is extremely unlikely — something like leaving infected flash drives in a break area, or gaining access through janitorial crews, is much more effective and likely.
Scare tactics exercised upon people who don’t understand the technology is akin to TSA implementing full body scans and frisks based on presumed vulnerability of air travel. If it’s that dangerous, just don’t do it.
motherjanegoose
November 22nd, 2010
11:39 am
O.K…so you work for Delta? Can you, for the record, state that you do not care if anyone flies at all or that it does not matter than I am a Gold Medallion with your airline.
I fly all the time but obviously those who only fly to Grandma’s know more about this than me.
Anyone care to comment on this:
Economic Impact: Hartsfield-Jackson has a direct economic impact of more than about $32.5 billion for the metro Atlanta area economy.
BOYCOTT FLYING and see if it affects any of your neighbors, friends and family members.
MAKE A STINK at the airport on W and see if you make it to your destination.
I rest my case. Y’all have a good day and please solve this problem quickly :).
Bethany
November 22nd, 2010
11:40 am
This is gettting to be way to much. They made a poor cancer surviver take out her prostetic breasts. They are terrorizing children, and quite frankly this is just a great way for unregistered perverts and pedofiles to get their rocks off. Get a job with the TSA. Kuddos for Florida for turning the TSA away and going with a private company, they will be profiling.
UNCLE BLIP
November 22nd, 2010
11:41 am
I’ve worked on several planes in several cities and I refuse to fly. Anywhere I go, I go by car, train, or bus. I’m good at what I do and I trust me. Scanner, pat down, or not…I’ll stick with the road.
Spike
November 22nd, 2010
11:43 am
The enemy has won. The government now as permission to physically touch our childrens bodies in a manner that we would not tolerate anyone much less a stranger do. We have in some cases allowed the government to mandatory personally “touching” our children and we say to our kids that’s what we need to do be great message for the next generation.
GTFOH
November 22nd, 2010
11:47 am
I bet if most people opt out of flying for Thanksgiving (the busiest holiday of the year), TSA will be forced to rethink this policy. And yes, everyone is effected.
Cammi317
November 22nd, 2010
11:47 am
I don’t like it all. So what happens if you go through the x-ray machine and you’re wearing a tampon? Are they going to insist that you step to the side and yank it out to prove that it’s only a tampon and not cocaine or some other illegal drug shoved up inside of you? I know this is a gross example, but it’s a possibility. Where do we draw the line?
justsumstuff
November 22nd, 2010
11:49 am
The troops in hostile territory can’t use the scanners or touch the known enemy, yet our own citizens are subject to this humiliating searches. Yeah, the Muslims object and the President Obama agrees. Law abiding citizens that are paying taxes are penalized for this. So for those that have the option to fly, tell me how to get from Hawaii, where I live because the Army said so, to “home on the East Coast” without flying? The “find other transportation, flying is an option” opinionated people need to get unselfish & realize not everyone is just like them. When known terrorist & enemies are subject to these “searches” then all will be right with the world.
justsumstuff
November 22nd, 2010
11:54 am
When you explain to your kids, make sure that you tell them about their rights as the grow so that children don[’t get “used to being led like sheep” & give up their rights. Write your congress, state representative, your government officials! These rights are what makes us free! TSA is oppressive.
HB
November 22nd, 2010
11:59 am
“Anyone care to comment on this:
Economic Impact: Hartsfield-Jackson has a direct economic impact of more than about $32.5 billion for the metro Atlanta area economy.
BOYCOTT FLYING and see if it affects any of your neighbors, friends and family members”
Sure, I will. Economic impact is the WHOLE POINT OF A BOYCOTT! No one thinks it won’t make things hard for a lot of people, but the hope is that the temporary hardship will make enough of an impact to convince TSA to change it’s policies. If you are comfortable with “naked” scans and “enhanced” pat-downs, more power to you, but you seem to think people who aren’t should be more concerned with supporting the airlines financially than standing up against policies that they believe violate their rights and their children’s rights to privacy. Personally, I’m not willing to sacrifice my right to privacy, which is what purchasing and using a ticket now seems to require, just to help out Delta and its employees. It’s lousy for them, but being groped is lousy for me! I don’t plan to fly until the rules are changed, but it’s note me hurting them — it’s TSA. I’ll also be writing my Congressman to express my concerns.
J.R.
November 22nd, 2010
12:02 pm
Arrest all the TSA agents. They are thieves, and sexual molesters.
Everything they do is theatre, none of it actually increases security, and much of it actually makes it more dangerous to fly. They waste our time, waste our money, trample our rights. TSA are the new terrorists.
Grant
November 22nd, 2010
12:14 pm
Oh, good Lord. Just go through the scanner. This is the same for kids as for adults. Surely someone has already seen you naked anyway and the kids, depending on age, don’t even have to realize the difference between this scanner and an x-ray. And, surely, it’s better than being groped. Of course, I’m left to wonder where all of this would be if, in fact, profiling were allowed.
motherjanegoose
November 22nd, 2010
12:19 pm
HB…we are generally never on the same page…so be it.
There are those here who have and will still have lunch with me and do realize that my elevator certainly does go to the top. Many do not.
Those who work for Coke and even the chip, paper products and peanut companies will also be affected.
Do these employees wake up today and say, ” oh wow…I may not have a job by Christmas because of this airline boycott and I am absolutely fine with it: PLEASE DO NOT FLY.”
Innocent people will be affected when the anger about TSA is actually anger towards our government.
I guess I am the only one who thinks the airlines cannot straighten out our government in a quick fashion. I wish them well! I certainly could be wrong, as I have been in the past.
The airlines may be able to solve the problem with their pressure today but the government will sneak it’s tentacles in and take over in another fashion.
OUTTA HERE TO BUY THE GROCERIES FOR TH….HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!
mom2alex&max
November 22nd, 2010
12:28 pm
MJG: boycotts affect innocent people all the time. That’s how they work!!! How do you suggest we show our displeasure??? When can’t boycott the govt!
And give it a rest already with the “people like me” routine. Everyone knows you are well loved in all 50 states, run a multi million dollar company and have two of the most promising minds of this generation as children. We get it already. Good grief.
JATL
November 22nd, 2010
12:32 pm
@GTFOH-what are you talking about in your response to me? Yeah, I get the dog part, but I’ve said several times already that TSA agents are neither that smart (usually chose being a TSA agent over working the Burger King drive through) or highly trained. Why are you talking about the “clear box” and what you wear when you fly? I, too, am quite mindful of what I wear when flying -not sure what your response is supposed to mean.