Can kids sell cupcakes without a permit?
Some parents in a New York City suburb are upset because a local politician called police on two 13-year-old boys for selling cupcakes and other baked goods without a permit.
“The Journal News in Westchester County reported Monday that New Castle Councilman Michael Wolfensohn had called police last month. The newspaper says it requested the police report after receiving a complaint from a friend of one of the boys’ families.”
“Andrew DeMarchis and Kevin Graff had a brisk business selling cupcakes, cookies, brownies and Rice Krispie treats in a Chappaqua (CHAP’-uh-kwah) park.”
“Kevin’s mother, Laura Graff, says the teens are “good kids” who were scared by the police call.”
“Wolfensohn says rules are rules. But he concedes calling the police might have been a half-baked decision.”
Teens babysit all the time, make good money and aren’t required to have child care licenses. Lots of teens dog sit, cut lawns and do a variety of other services without the red tape of the adult world. Was this different because it was selling a good? Was it because it was in a public park? (Walsh talks all the time about selling snow cones at the ball fields. He thinks he would make a killing!)
Should kids be able to run “small” businesses without permits or business licenses required by adults? Should they report their income as taxable? (My mom used to make me pay taxes on my babysitting money. She’s an accountant.)
Should these kids be rewarded and praised for being industrious and entrepreneurial? Should they have to follow all the business rules adults do?
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
64 comments Add your comment
NoWay
November 16th, 2010
10:13 am
The laws and ordinances are there for a reason. Even kids need to adhere to them.
sharon
November 16th, 2010
10:31 am
someone needs to slip Mr. Wolfensohn a bad cupcake — maybe that’ll teach him to keep his nose in grown-up business instead. with Wall St. right there, why can’t he go after someone his own size???
Portia
November 16th, 2010
10:38 am
I have read ALL the comments and no one seems willing to answer the simple question of what about all the taxpayers who use OR want to use this public park that is paid for my the local citizenry? These boys stated catagorically that they intended to do this on a regular basis, for personal profit, using the public space as if it was their own. As soon as others see what they are doing, the entire park would or could be filled with unlicensed vendors, destroying any possibility of enjoyment for those people simply interested in going to the park for some fun and relaxation…AND, no one wants to talk about who cleans up and who pays for that clean up…all snacks come with trash…all these “let the kids be kids” people are simply not thinking past the cute little boys who are anxious to make money without any of the normal rules that apply to everyone else…WHY would anyone want to encourage them to take away from other’s business when those others have played by the rules? STOP encouraging people to only think about themselves, especially self-centered, self-absorbed parents who think that everything their little darlings do is wonderful…this is why we have kids who have NO manners, NO self-restraint and NO future in the real world as they sit screaming into their cellphones wherever they are. And, no, I don’t hate kids…quite the contrary…I am scared for their futures as their parents and the adults around them refuse to tell them that the world does NOT revolve around them and they should remember that we are all in this thing called life together and we should try and get along AND that is why there are rules…for fairness. And, please stop dumping on the councilman…at least for this…he may or may not be a total jerk, but how he handled this was totally correct. No one should take on kids today…it is a lose-lose situation…between crazy-a*s parents and sue-happy lawyers, he did exactly the right thing…and, if the kids were scared by being talked to nicely by police, then they obviously have some serious parent-issues…why would they be scared of police unless they hear nutty stories at home? One final note…why is everyone dumping on Democrats, saying it is their crazy rules that is the culprit…believe me, I am quite sure that the Republicans that own businesses in that area would be incensed if those kids started taking away their business from them, especially knowing they had broken ALL the rules…it isn’t the Dems who believe firmly in private property rights, it is the GOP…so, let those kids sell whatever they want on their own property. My public space isn’t up for sale or for use for sales! Oh, and please expect a little more from parents…they knew better and encouraged their perfectly wonderful youngsters to do their thing and if others don’t like it—well, tough…their kids come first…before anyone else…and, they will fight for that belief…so, let’s ALL agree…REALLY?
DLink
November 16th, 2010
11:08 am
Sounds like we need a kiddy permit for their lemonade stands, eh? Explain that there is a process for doing business, just need to institute kiddy prices for the permit, like a cup of hand squeezed lemonade. A county stamped permit, with say a Teddy Bear should be adequate.
Of note, I’m in DeKalb County where something like 10-15% of businesses have an actual permit for operations. Perhaps we can start off small like this here?
MB
November 16th, 2010
11:46 am
As someone in the catering business, I can tell you of some of the problem. First, there aren’t separate permits for different levels of business. You can tell the kids to get a permit, but most cities treat such stands just like big restaurants and the cost of permit and health regs would be too expensive for kids. I feel this is ridiculous but also agree that they should have to go through a process for educational purposes of business education. So, I think they should have to apply for a permit, but have the fee be only $5 or so since they will only be selling on weekends and probably only for a couple of months or so usually. They should have to go to the health department but it’s the same problem there (rules of big restaurants and a $200 fee in GA). For kids, they should simply have to answer a few questions about hygiene, who is helping them bake and ensure there is adult supervision in the kitchen. No inspection and maybe a $5 fee.
My opinion about GA rules is it doesn’t have to do with health but with money. Rules are that if you are non-profit or doing something for a non-profit (like a banquet), or in association with a non-profit (fairs), you don’t have to have a health inspection. But those making a profit do. If it’s all about health, then why the difference?
In GA, there is not a distinction between caterers and big restaurants. So, someone just starting with catering has to pay thousands to accommodate the rules (some which are very silly)…pay the same fees…and they can’t get a quick enough return so they go under. There should be a distinction between the two with some basic health rules which should apply to all…and those owning big kitchens with high volume get additional rules regarding their larger volume equipment…and those with smaller volume should pay only for a part-time fee or a hobby fee. As it is, many go underground…
HB
November 16th, 2010
1:27 pm
Portia, I think you hit the nail on the head with the parents in this case. I searched for more info and found other articles about this where the mother said the police officer was “extremely nice” but the boys were crying and scared thinking they would have records and accused the councilman of “killing their dream” (uh, dramatic much?). So a month later they go after the councilman in the news for hurting their precious darlings.
A reasonable parent would
a) calm the kid down by assuring him he was in no trouble and just had to stop selling instead of making him out to be a victim of a big, bad man who scared an innocent child and
b) help the child work the problem and determine next steps (apply for a permit? find a new location? petition the council to have the park rules changed?).
Instead, these parents decided to be vindictive, going to the local paper to demonize a councilman who simply asked local ordinances be enforced (maybe he could have spoken to them instead of calling the police to do it, but as DB said, the police are probably who actually have the authority to enforce the rule, so what’s the big deal? they weren’t treated harshly–the mom said the policeman was “extremely nice”), and the AP and every media source that picked up their story bought into it.
Tiffany
November 16th, 2010
1:42 pm
I seriously think some of y’all need to lighten up. These are KIDS selling CUPCAKES!
John Galt
November 16th, 2010
2:02 pm
Enter your comments here
Sk8ing Momma
November 16th, 2010
5:02 pm
HB – Here! Here!
BluebellJones
November 16th, 2010
6:03 pm
I’m tired of dream fulfillment as an entitlement. Councilman is an idiot, cops were probably totally annoyed/embarrassed by this. The parents sound like their role models were guests on Jerry Springer and no one gets cupcakes today.
Terrco
November 16th, 2010
9:57 pm
Sad thing about this whole story … Us adults continue to elect turd hustlers like this.
Terrco
November 16th, 2010
10:05 pm
HB: You’re all about socialism, government control, the whole nine yards. Why does ANYBODY have to have a permit to sell anything? This is NOT how our country was started. If you made good cup cakes, you made lots of money. If you made bad cupcakes, you went broke, and started another endeavor. The only thing “permits” are for is the “gubmint” to steal more from us. With this example consider hair salons, barbers, nail salons, hardware stores, clothing stores, restaurants… and the list continues. Get the government out of our lives, and leave us alone.
BluebellJones
November 16th, 2010
11:08 pm
Oh Terrco, just settle down. HB is willing to flog you with his arguments all the way to the bar. Winning is just not an option. Also, you are a reactionary idiot. Who is probably on the government dole. No cussing, no malignant vernacular and no maligning cupcakes.
I am Spiro Agnew, I am.
Ann
November 17th, 2010
12:42 pm
1. They were 13, not 7.
2. They were selling in a public park.
3. They made over $120 the first week.
4. They had decided to come back for a second week, and probably would continue if not stopped.
They were old enough where it’s not just a play thing, it’s a money thing. And they were in a park. I think they should’ve been stopped.