Should Amazon.com sell a pedophile guide book? Would you boycott if book remains?

Amazon.com Inc. has come under fire for selling a self-published guide that offers advice to pedophiles. The book has been hit with hundreds of negative reviews, comments and even some threats to boycott the site until the book is removed.

From The Associated Press:

“The availability of “The Pedophile’s Guide to Love and Pleasure: a Child-lover’s Code of Conduct” calls into question whether Amazon has any procedures — or even an obligation — to vet books before they are sold in its online stores. Amazon did not respond to multiple e-mail and phone messages.’ ”

The title is an electronic book available for Amazon’s Kindle e-reader and the company’s software for reading Kindle books on mobile phones and computers. Amazon allows authors to submit their own works and shares revenue with them.”

“Amazon issues guidelines banning certain materials, including those deemed offensive. However, the company doesn’t elaborate on what constitutes offensive content, saying simply that it is “probably what you would expect.” Amazon also doesn’t promise to remove or protect any one category of books.”

“The author of ‘The Pedophile’s Guide,’ listed as Philip R. Greaves II, argues that pedophiles are misunderstood, as the word literally means to love a child. The author adds that it is only a crime to act on sexual impulses toward children, and offers advice that purportedly allows pedophiles to abide by the law.”

“Many users on Twitter called on Amazon to pull the book, and a few threatened to boycott the retailer until it does.”

“Child online safety advocacy group Enough is Enough says it isn’t surprised that someone would publish such a book, but believes that Amazon should remove it. It says selling the book lends the impression that child abuse is normal.”

“That doesn’t mean Amazon should be prohibited from selling it, counters Christopher Finan, president of the American Booksellers Foundation for Free Expression. He said that Amazon has the right under the First Amendment to sell any book that is not child pornography or legally obscene. Finan said Greaves’ book doesn’t amount to either because it does not include illustrations.”

“This isn’t the first time Amazon has sold material that promotes illegal activity. It is currently accepting pre-orders for the hardcover version of ‘I Am the Market: How to Smuggle Cocaine by the Ton, in Five Easy Lessons’ by Luca Rastello.”

“Nor is it the first time Amazon has come under attack for selling objectionable content in its store. In 2002, the United States Justice Foundation, a conservative group, threatened to sue Amazon for selling ‘Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers.’ That title is still available through Amazon.”

“In 2009, Amazon stopped selling ‘RapeLay,’ a first-person video game in which the protagonist stalks and then rapes a mother and her daughters, after it was widely condemned in the media and by various interest groups.”

The Los Angeles Times reports:

” ‘There is no excuse for Amazon to be offering this product,’ one visitor writes. ‘I’ve removed my Amazon shop from my website and won’t be doing any Christmas or household shopping through Amazon.com until this product is GONE.’ ”

“The book has attracted almost 800 reviews on its Amazon page, with 760 giving it the lowest possible ranking of one star. Many reviewers threatened to boycott the company unless the book is removed.”

MSNBC has a statement from Amazon.com:

“Amazon issued a statement that will no doubt fuel the outraged comments multiplying on the ‘Pedophile’s Guide’ Amazon page. ‘Amazon believes it is censorship not to sell certain books simply because we or others believe their message is objectionable,’ it reads. ‘Amazon does not support or promote hatred or criminal acts, however, we do support the right of every individual to make their own purchasing decisions.’ “

So, what do you think? Should Amazon.com remove the “Pedophile’s Guide” book? Is it inappropriate to sell? Do you feel Amazon has the right to sell such materials? Would you boycott the site to protest this book?

81 comments Add your comment

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JATL

November 10th, 2010
11:30 pm

Well, thank God it seems good sense has prevailed. If you go to Amazon and click on the book (which honestly made me feel nauseous to do) it says the website isn’t available and redirects you back to Amazon’s home page. In society, we have to draw a line. I’m all for the First Amendment and hate censorship, but a functioning society has to use some sense. Would they be okay selling a guide to lynching? How about a guide to bullying someone into suicide? Guides for step-by-step rape and torture? Seriously, all it takes is a simple statement by them that they will not sell any content that has as its primary reason for existence the way to go about illegal and felonious activity. This book is disgusting and I hope that all it has done is serve to put the author on every watch list in this nation.

Given how many people posted on the 10 year old giving birth that they thought there was nothing wrong with it and to think ill of it was trampling on the girl and her mother’s precious “culture,” don’t be surprised if folks think the pedophile’s guide is just fine. Seems to go hand in hand -if you see no problem with 10 year old moms, you probably don’t have nearly enough of a problem with pedophiles.

Theresa Walsh Giarrusso

November 10th, 2010
11:32 pm

This story is moving very fast — lots of stuff changing — JATL thanks for updating us on what’s happening on the Amazon site. I wonder if it will come back later???

Linda Diernisse

November 10th, 2010
11:38 pm

How naive I am – I’d actually developed a warm & fuzzy feeling for the company. One I’ve shopped since the first month they hit the Internet. They’d never disappointed me. I never saw their Ugly side. Clearly I haven’t been paying attention to the news these last couple of years.

How repulsive to think Amazon executives would protect the “Pedophile’s Guide” citing anti-censorship reasons. What does that say about them personally? Ugh. For me a boycott of the company is hardly enough. As a shareholder – we’re selling our stock.

JATL

November 10th, 2010
11:54 pm

@TWG -check first thing in the morning. Hopefully they won’t open the link again -although the book is still on their site. Given the insomnia I’m having lately, maybe I’ll check back around 3 am. I will check the other disgust also mentioned as well as a title that just entails good ‘ol physical abuse I’m interested to see if they carry. I’ll be emailing you about having that as a topic…

JATL

November 11th, 2010
12:07 am

OK -I’ll quit updating after this, but unfortunately it is BACK! I posted a comment to go with the other 2000+ admonishing them for this lunacy. What I find even more problematic is the fact that “Understanding Boy Lovers and Loved Boys” is for sale there as well, and it’s not sold through Amazon by the author or publisher -it’s sold and shipped BY Amazon! You can even throw up in your mouth a bit while you read comments on it from actual pedophiles who are delighted to have this book out there so people can “realize the inherent sexuality of children and how relationships of this nature could be very beneficial to parents.” I think I’m actually going to go vomit now. Good night.

DB

November 11th, 2010
12:24 am

Condemn Amazon all you like — but while you’re doing it, make sure you include the internet, too, which is a far broader source of dissemination of information for pedophiles and other manner of social perversions. Are you going to boycott the internet, too? Just that website, you say? Fine. Then don’t buy just the book from Amazon, either. To say that you will boycott Amazon for allowing someone to practice their right to free speech is to take a very cautious step on a very slippery slope. The most effective form of censorship is to simply not buy the damn thing.

Yes, it’s a disgusting and perverted topic, and I wish Amazon hadn’t chosen to sell it. It seems to go against their published policy of not carrying material that “may lead to the production of an illegal item or illegal activity.” (Of the 840 reviews of this book, I doubt more than 10 of them had actually READ the book — how can you review a book that you haven’t read, please?)

But as far as compared to other travesties: A guide to lynching? Hmm — didn’t we discuss “To Kill A Mockingbird” a few weeks ago? Rape? Pick any number of bodice-ripping romances. Crashing planes into government buildings? Tom Clancy covered that pretty thoroughly in “Debt of Honor” before 9/11 ever happened. Bullying someone into suicide? Already done: “By The Time You Read This, I’ll Be Dead”, or “The Side Door”. There is precious little out there that hasn’t been covered. Amazon also carries “Grow Great Marijuana: An Uncomplicated Guide”. Don’t forget the numerous guides to making your own alcoholic beverages, too.

The world is full of “how-to’s”, most of it right at our fingertips, as easy to find on the internet as it is to order from Amazon. It’s the uproar over this book that will cause it to sell, which is pretty disgusting (sorta like that recent Diane Lane movie, where the more people that logged on to a website, the faster a victim died.) They couldn’t have possibly bought any better publicity, which is ironically being fueled by the very same people that abhor the very idea of it.

From a personal perspective I’m glad that Amazon has chosen to withdraw this garbage excuse for a book from its offerings — but as someone who is a rabid defender of free speech, I must admit, I am a little torn. It sorta comes under the category of “don’t shoot the messenger” — instead, consider just how low society has sunk that someone would feel safe in writing such a book in the first place. *shudder*.

JATL

November 11th, 2010
12:50 am

@DB -I understand that the internet is wide open, but internet stores do NOT have to sell everything out there. The internet is a portal and a medium that contains different markets -not the market itself. I also understand that it’s a slippery slope in free-speech land, but again -you’re not allowed to yell, “FIRE” in a crowded theater because of the propensity to incite mayhem and have people injured. If a guide to molesting young boys isn’t injurious -what is?

As far as fiction that includes rapes or lynchings or whatnot -they’re fiction. Those books don’t exist solely to instruct others on how to go about performing horrific acts. Even nonfictional accounts of those actions do not serve as a how-to for others to go out and commit the same crimes. If someone does so after reading one of them, it’s a shame, but that isn’t the sole reason for the existence of those books.

DB

November 11th, 2010
2:28 am

@JATL: I get your point about the sole existence of fiction isn’t to inform. True, fiction isn’t “real”– but with someone who is already disturbed enough, a graphic description is just feeding the fire (although, granted, I doubt many rapists read romances.) Just because the genre is fiction, that doesn’t mean that the information isn’t real or isn’t mis-used.

The internet is a portal that is far more wide-open than Amazon.com — and it’s a portal that derives a great deal of many and is supported in many ways by internet advertising, just like the ads on the right side of this page. So . . . because Amazon is selling a book, that makes them less pure than an internet site that has advertising? They both use it as a way to increase revenue.

The whole thing is just . . . ugh. Ewwww. And I hate the fact that there’s someone out there that feels free enough in their perversion to write about it openly.

null

November 11th, 2010
6:41 am

Hate to say it, but the book and Amazon’s right to sell it are protected by the Constitution. Don’t like it? Don’t buy it. I say go right ahead and boycott Amazon if you wish, but don’t be surprised if their doors don’t close because you stopped shopping there. If we start chipping away at the Constitution because of 1 or 2 things we don’t like, where does it end? Is it worth selling our freedoms over a stinkin’ book we’ll never read? I’m sure the idiots like the Parents Television Council would love that, and if they love something….you KNOW it’s not good for those f us who can think and choose for ourselves.

Jeff

November 11th, 2010
6:53 am

While I think it is disgusting in every way that someone would write this book and some corporation would publish it, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that people’s sexual interests outside of the norm is being more and more promoted.

The basic question still comes down to, if person A is attracted to ——, who are we to judge it. We’ve been beaten over the head with that concept for ages now. This is the natural evolution of the path we have been walking.

SJ

November 11th, 2010
6:59 am

For those who keep mentioning the Constitution and free speech, I have just a couple of comments. The Constitution protects the author’s rights, within limits, to write the publication. It does not require Amazon to choose to sell it. If the government stepped in and put the author in jail for writing this publication, he might have a free speech claim. If the government told Amazon to quit selling this publication, it might have a free speech claim.

But Amazon listening to its customers and ceasing to sell this offensive and disgusting publication is not a violation of anyone’s free speech rights. Yes, Amazon has the right to sell this. We all have the right to do things that others might find disgusting and completely lacking in decency and taste. That doesn’t mean Amazon should sell this, nor does it mean that I have to keep shopping there if they do.

No, one person boycotting wouldn’t make a difference. However, enough pressure and negative publicity could make a difference. This information may be available on the internet. But there is no need for a reputable company like Amazon to legitimate it and make it so widely available. I see a huge difference in this and in books that promote drug use or distribution. This is a handbook whose sole purpose is to help others hurt children.

mom2alex&max

November 11th, 2010
7:00 am

How disgusting.

And I don’t think that we are “chipping away” at the constitution just because we don’t condone the sale of something that promotes the destruction on the innocent lives of CHILDREN. CHILDREN FOR PETE’S SAKE.

Yeah, I will be boycotting Amazon. And yes, I know it won’t be making a difference to them, but it matters to ME.

mom2alex&max

November 11th, 2010
7:01 am

Jeff: there is a difference between whatever the heck two consenting ADULTS want to do and what some predator wants to do to children who are not old enough to protect themselves. Apples to oranges.

SJ

November 11th, 2010
7:09 am

T – my comment has disappeared. Thanks.

mom of 3

November 11th, 2010
7:17 am

Do you not use the library because you don’t approve of some of the books on the shelves? Do you not go to certain stores because they sell Playboy? I DO NOT believe in book banning. I do not agree with all that is out there but they do have the right.
It is wrong and makes me sick at my stomach but the Constitution gives them the right to write and sell this type of material.

motherjanegoose

November 11th, 2010
7:49 am

This material also disgusts me and I have ordered many things from Amazon. I am rethinking here.

I do want to mention a BIG thanks to all of our Veterans today, my father in law and husband included. We do have certain freedoms due to their sacrifice. Interpretation of these freedoms can vary but our country is still great and I hope it will now get back on the right track to personal responsibility. I read that 1 in 6 people are depending on the government right now for their livelihood. We do need to turn this around. Just my two cents.

OFF topic ( but something we talked about this week) ….I went to Publix last night for the BOGO and had coupons….my total was $60.12 and I saved $57.00 with the coupons and BOGO….this after we signed the papers on the car we drove home….LOL and used a coupon to save us $5.00 at Steak N Shake! We had a good day ;)

Photius

November 11th, 2010
8:06 am

We’re in the South, the intellectual desert of North America – let’s revert to our Southern roots and have us a good ‘ole book burning! If you don’t like the contents of any book, don’t buy it. Two books which have caused more trouble than any other piece of literature: the Koran and the Bible. Terrorism, wars – the 1,000 year Age of Faith, empire expansion, slavery…. If you’re targeting books why not start with the ones which have caused the most problems in the world. If not, don’t buy the book.

MomOf2Girls

November 11th, 2010
8:08 am

@mom2alex&max – that was Jeff’s point. He was saying we’ve been slowly anesthetized against aberrant behavior, and now that there is something that the majority find truly disgusting, people are shocked that a) it can happen, and b) there are actually defenders of the activity.

Regarding protected free speech. First of all, the right to free speech as delineated in the Bill of Rights is only for speech against the government. This has been expanded throughout the years to include other types of speech, but that has been a societal modification, not an actual amendment to the Constitution.

I don’t see this as a matter of protected speech. Rather, it is a matter of a private enterprise choosing what product they sell. If Amazon decides to pull the book (as I really hope they do), this is not infringing on anyone’s free speech. This slimeball has other venues to sell his filth. Rather, this is purely a business decision. In other words, under the current usage of the concept of free speech, Amazon has the right to sell this, but they do not have an obligation.

mom2alex&max

November 11th, 2010
8:19 am

mom of 3: library? I don’t boycott that no. Because a library wouldn’t carry a book that promotes the abuse of children. A store that sells playboy? No, I wouldn’t patronize that.

But AGAIN: you cannot compare playboy or any other pornographic whatever (consenting ADULTS) to pedophilia. Children cannot protect themselves. We have to protect them!!

mom2alex&max

November 11th, 2010
8:22 am

momof2: whatever we consider aberrant behavior is up to someone’s individual moral code. And whatever two (or three or 20) ADULTS choose to do is their business. But society has an obligation to protect those that cannot protect themselves (children)

And yes Amazon has the right to sell that disgusting book. And WE have the right to protest against it AND make our displeasure known with our wallets. It goes both ways.

Andy's SAWB

November 11th, 2010
8:22 am

Who am I to determine what you can or cannot read (or sell)? If you can get past your shock and horror you might want to read it to see how THEY think…

motherjanegoose

November 11th, 2010
8:30 am

Not to stir things up but many gas stations sell magazines that I dislike and yet I do buy gas there. Mostly, I do not even go inside. Am I the only one?

Becky

November 11th, 2010
8:49 am

I don’t have to boycott Amazon because I don’t order things off of the internet..As has already been said though, I would nost likely not buy this book..Andy’s SWAB does have a valid point though..Might give you some insight into these people strange mind..

@MJG..no, you aren’t the only one..I think about 95% of the gas staions sell magazines that most of us wouldn’t buy, but we still buy gas there..If anyone has ever stopped at a truck stop, have you ever looked at some of the stuff they sell there? Just because we don’t do, doesn’t mean that others don’t right or wrong..

Cheryl Hoppe

November 11th, 2010
8:53 am

This is an OUTRAGE!!! Boycott??? You bet your boots-and I will contact EVERYONE I CAN THINK OF TO DO SO AS WELL!!!!! WHAT A SICKENING DISGRACE-HOW CAN AMAZON HELP SUCH VILE MONSTERS HURT INNOCENT CHILDREN?????

motherjanegoose

November 11th, 2010
9:00 am

@ Becky…I ( previously) ordered from Amazon and also love Overstock. No standing in line and mall traffic but now I will rethink. See you T for lunch….then Michelle on W and catlady the next week…should be fun! DB…are you up for dinner W night at the MOG?

JATL

November 11th, 2010
9:10 am

Let me be clear that I don’t care about any other sexual practice, nudity, cursing, drug use -whatever. It’s fine with me if libraries still carry books on how to make bombs (although the Patriot Act took care of most of those). Burn books -NO! Playboy is fine with me, as is Hustler, Juggs and whatever other magazines some may deem perverse AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT INCLUDE CHILDREN! There’s a whole fetish with a number of magazines devoted to people who defecate on one another for sexual pleasure. As absolutely disgusting and abhorrent as I find that -I say “Sell away!” It’s when speech/writing crosses the line into advocating pedophilia that I don’t consider it “free.” I don’t really care what other illegal or dangerous activity libraries, book stores or any other outlet carries books about, but when it comes to children in our society -we need to draw a line. We make many laws regarding minors and their safety as well as adults and their safety. Why shouldn’t there be laws regarding the distribution of pro-pedophilia items? Child pornography is illegal while adult pornography is not -although it has skated close to the edge on occasion. We DO make differences in our laws and rights between children, crimes against children and adults -and we should!

Amazon’s doors may not close, but my money doesn’t have to be spent there. This drivel and far more is on the internet and always has been, but I don’t go to those sites or purchase it.

As far as reading any of it to try and understand how THEY think? Please. I love exploring different cultures, perspectives and mindsets, but pedophiles are a sub-human species. I don’t care how they think, how they feel or what they want or desire. As far as I’m concerned, people who abuse or advocate the abuse of children deserve nothing more than a fast bullet to the brain.

Betty

November 11th, 2010
9:16 am

I’m appalled that someone would write this book too, but not in favor of boycotting. Good point on the bible and the Koran, Photius. If you choose to boycott, do so for your own conscious, like mom2alex&max, because it’s not going to have a huge impact on Amazon.

As for reading it to gain the perspective of the author and his followers———ah, no thanks.

shaggy

November 11th, 2010
9:22 am

I have to agree with Photius on this one. Ignore, and it goes away quickly. The only reason it gets in the press is the hot button topic and the press’ opportunity to “break” the story to the masses. They (press) make money on circulation, and this will certainly stimulate that, so really the press is feeding this pervert’s desire of recognition. Don’t give it to him….like the advice to me yesterday to , “not feed the trolls”.

Also, I am sure the Feds will be paying close attention to the persons “interested” in the title, probably with Amazon’s blessing.

Jeff

November 11th, 2010
9:25 am

Let’s set aside for a second the fact that we as a scoiety draw the line at “children” (whatever that age is for you). Why are we surprised that this book is NOT out there? We condone group sex, swapping, homosexuality, (add or subtract whatever you want to the list). why should bestiality and pedophilia NOT be next on the list? There is a segment of society that is sexually attracted to children and it is proven that they infrequently can change that attraction. The only difference is we have not conditioned ourselves (yet) to accept it. I think it’s a horrible thing, but it doesn’t surprise me when I look at it in the context of a bigger picture.

Jeff

November 11th, 2010
9:26 am

Besides, if a corporation is stupid enough to invest in something that is going to lose money (who’s going to actually buy the book?) then it’s their dime.

mom2alex&max

November 11th, 2010
9:27 am

Jeff: homosexuality, swapping, S&M, what-have-you, are behaviors between ADULTS. Pedophilia is an attack on innocent children who do not have the emotional, physical, or mental capacity to defend themselves against the predator.

BluebellJones

November 11th, 2010
9:29 am

In response, I give you “Naked Lunch” (from Wikipedia):

“Once published in the United States, Naked Lunch was prosecuted as obscene by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, followed by other states. In 1966 the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court declared the work “not obscene” on the basis of criteria developed largely to defend the book. The case against Burroughs’s novel still stands as the last obscenity trial against a work of literature—that is, a work consisting of words only, and not including illustrations or photographs — prosecuted in the United States.”
So Amazon can sell anything it likes. I don’t make the rules. And if pedos need a handbook they’re doing it wrong.

Becky

November 11th, 2010
9:32 am

Well, I’ve said it before and I mean it with every breath I take..If some idiot messes with either one of my two and I find about it, they won’t die, they will just live the rest of their life thinking about it, while missing certain parts of their body..

PhotoMomof4

November 11th, 2010
9:33 am

I am bothered that Amazon would sell this, but there are MANY third party sellers on Amazon that sell good quality items and give excellent service. I think it is wrong that you would punish the third party sellers for the actions or inactions taken by Amazon.

As of right now, the book is not available.

Of course, most third party sellers are looking for other places to sell their items as this hurts everyone of their businesses. You should realize that you are hurting those sellers MORE than Amazon any day if you boycott them.

@mom2alex&max – Are you saying you don’t buy gas from a gas station? I’ve never found a gas station that didn’t sell some sort of adult magazine. Really they are everywhere. You don’t have to buy them though.

BluebellJones

November 11th, 2010
10:16 am

Also, pedophelia is not a crime. One can think about it but doing it amounts to molestation, which is against the law. Sort of like Catholic priests can think about alter boys but mustn’t touch them.

JATL

November 11th, 2010
10:31 am

@PhotoMomof4 -that was motherjanegoose who posted about the gas stations.

Also -while “The Pedophile’s Guide” is sold through Amazon by a 3rd party, “Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers” is sold and shipped by Amazon.

@Shaggy and Photius -I am inclined to agree about the “ignore it and it will go away” approach in order not to fan the attention around it, but I am disheartened that a national retailer would accept such material and offer it for sale. If anyone should be ignoring it so it will go away -it should be the outlets that can choose whether or not to sell it. No one is forcing Amazon to allow the author to sell this book or to sell “Understanding Loved Boys” itself. Hopefully you’re right, Shaggy, and this will serve to put the piece of filth on watch lists and to be run out of his neighborhood and maybe his town.

@ Jeff -when it comes to adults -it doesn’t matter to me what kind of sexual practices we’ve become “desensitized” to -and in actuality we HAVEN’T become desensitized or Hustler would be on the coffee table at the doctor’s office along with People and Cooking Light (wasn’t there a Seinfeld episode about that?). Porn films and fetish mags are not something you can buy at Target. As a society we’ve basically said -when it comes to consenting human adults -fine -do what you want, but you cannot compare those things to sexual acts with children (or animals -although admittedly this can be a gray area since they can’t speak as disgusting as it sounds -like child molestation, we have laws against it).

rachej

November 11th, 2010
10:47 am

When I first saw this, I thought it was a joke. I was sad to read on to find out that it is for real. Yes, there is a fine line with the 1st Amendment, but really, this is just discusting . A guide for pedophiles??? How about a guide to going about murdering without being caught, or commiting a crime with no consequences- or what about making drugs from over the counter medicines?- oh wait, that’s been done…

I rarely shop on Amazon, and now will think twice before I do- I didn’t realize the history they’ve had with selling this stuff- and yes, I know I’m just one person, but yes, it makes a difference to me.

http://www.paragonfinancial.net/factoring-states/?s=Georgia

JAMES

November 11th, 2010
10:52 am

I find it personally disgusting that a human would want to write the book, but I don’t think Amazon should restrict its sale. Free speech is very important, and Amazon may catch a lot of flak if they don’t take it down–but they will be doing the right thing by keeping it available.

Also, Theresa: The headline on the AJC main page that links to this article misspells ‘pedophile’ as ‘pedofile’. I’m sure it wasn’t you put that up, but you should let someone know: that’s embarrassing.

Some Guy

November 11th, 2010
11:01 am

I just checked again and this disgusting book is not available on the Amazon web site. I will write a general letter of protest and ask Amazon to internally identify their employee who allowed this sick trash book to appear on their web page. The person responsible needs to be fired or put into a position with no influence on books and products offered.

Just sickening………..WTH were they thinking?

cc

November 11th, 2010
11:06 am

Amazon has crossed the line and everyone should boycott them for selling any “how to” or “info” on becoming or staying within the legal lines of being a pedophile. Adults can file complaints with police about unwelcomed advances. Adults can tell their HR dept if someone if sexually harassing them. Children should be protected from despicalbe books on a “legal” way to molest a child. How disgusting!

A Question

November 11th, 2010
11:07 am

A question for those who want to boycott Amazon for selling this book (which I haven’t read, so I will not comment on). Should we have been boycotting them since the beginning for selling Plato’s The Symposium, which also makes an argument (by the character of Aristophanes) for pedophilia? Those who are saying that this is just part of society’s downward spiral should consider what can easily be found in a lot of the ancient Greek works, which, by and large, are part of the literary canon, i.e. well-respected and often-taught.

shaggy

November 11th, 2010
11:20 am

Just Ignore it. It’s nothing new. Yes, the Greeks and other ancient cultures had perverts too. The Roman Emperor “Tiberius” was a known pedophile. It’s gone on all through time.
The media just slams it in your face on a regular basis, because like sex in general, it sells and makes the talking heads feel much more important than they really are.
You can “fight” pedophilia much more effectively by being a real parent, none of that “friend” crap. Educate your kids and execute absolute authority over them and who they hang around with. If little Jimmy is spending too much time with the youth minister, be suspect “parents”, and check on it.

Kate

November 11th, 2010
11:26 am

@ A Question – As a history professor once told me “you cannot judge the past by the present.”

This is not a first amendment issue. I am not suggesting that any government agency step in and shut down Amazon or punish them in any other way. This is simply a matter of conscience. Why on earth would any mainstream business want to sell and profit from such a book? This isn’t just an issue for moral elitists. Even the most hardened criminals consider pedophiles the lowest of the low. I assume the article is correct when it says that there’s nothing actually illegal in Amazon selling this thing, but it is certainly immoral and unethical. As someone who does a lot of shopping online, I will certainly think twice about using Amazon again until they rethink their policy on what material they are willing to sell.

JOD

November 11th, 2010
11:30 am

@JATL – I did, in fact, throw up in my mouth. “Inherent sexuality of children” – WHAAAAT?

It’s amazing how many people in our country would rather protect the rights of those who hurt others (whether a child-rapist (sorry, pedophile is a sophisticated word for an ugly behavior) or a teenager who stomps another, then has the NAACP defend him from being inconvenienced by police questioning). What about the rights of our children?

I was already boycotting Amazon.com because of other offensive ‘how-to’ material they sell. As others posted, it’s their choice to sell, it’s not required. And yes, I know they don’t care if I buy or not, but I know. Maybe if more of us thought that way, retailers would care.

Economic realist

November 11th, 2010
11:45 am

The First Amendment is about government restrictions, not the restrictions of a private seller. That is why the private solution is ALWAYS better than a government one.

But if you are concerned about pedophila, you should be more concerned that the new scanners at the airports are now allowing who knows who to look at your children as if they were completely naked, and if you “opt out” then a TSA agent can legally molest them, groping and feeling their genital region as much as they want to “make sure the airplane is safe.” Personally I would be more worried about the government than some book that nobody will buy.

Economic realist

November 11th, 2010
11:47 am

Want to participate in a better boycott? Boycott the airlines until they get congress to disband the TSA or at least restore sanity and dignity to the passenger checkout process. Or consider checking out this web page: http://www.optoutday.com.

Everyone doesn't have to be like you

November 11th, 2010
11:52 am

Maybe it’s just a scam for the FBI to start monitoring anyone who orders the book? Way to go media and blow the cover.

Common Sense

November 11th, 2010
11:55 am

Stop using the constitution as a crutch for sickos!!!!!!!! This book is sick and disgusiting and should be taken off of the market!!!!

DB

November 11th, 2010
11:59 am

@mom2alex: So — you don’t go to Barnes and Noble or Borders? They both sell Playboy . . . just sayin’

DB

November 11th, 2010
12:00 pm

@MJG: Can’t next week, due to that issue we discussed on the phone. After Thanksgiving, I’m open.

Grandma

November 11th, 2010
12:05 pm

I buy a lot from Amazon but I think listing this outrageous book is in poor taste. Yes, I would stop shopping Amazon. I have grandchildren and they are precious to me. This book should be burned and replaced by “The Hunters Guide to Child Molesters.”

Lucy

November 11th, 2010
12:05 pm

Talking about the book just gives it more press! We don’t even know the contents of the book. The author stated that the book “offers advice that purportedly allows pedophiles to abide by the law.” He could be teaching them how to control their impulses. It could be more like a self-help book.

Disgusting

November 11th, 2010
12:13 pm

DB is right! As screwed up at it is, free speech comes first. The best form of cencorship, in case we missed it, is to not buy it and/or boycott, if enough of us did it, it would make a difference. The worst part, as was said, it that this person feels free enough to write/market/sell something as disgusting as his book. Now, the authorities should keep an eye on this perv & his friends as they are sure 2 slip up eventually.

deidre_NC

November 11th, 2010
12:15 pm

walmart will not sell any music that is considered ‘r’ rated, having to do with language, violence etc. music artists who want their music sold at walmart have to make a different and censored version in order to be sold there. but-go to the condom aisle, there are many ‘minor’ sex toys there. no-you cant buy a dildo or whatever,but you can buy a vibrating finger condom..or something like that….also, check out the movie and book section-no censorship there. i realize that this has nothing to do with the pedofile issue-but stores-physical or online- sell what the people want. i have never understood how walmart can justify censoring the music they sell and still sell some of the video games, books and sexual aids that they do.
i am not about censorship, i am very disturbed that you can buy a book like this at a place where kids can shop (amazon). i read years ago an article of a pedofile organization, whose members truly believe they are in the right, that children do have an inherant sexuality that needs to be nurtured. these people truly believe this. i am studying criminal justice and sociology and honestly i would like to read some of this-if i could stomach it which is doubtful-but honestly i am scared to even look at anything pertaining to things like this online due to the laws we have and the cyber criminologists we have in law enforcement these days. i wonder if these law enforcement people keep track of who buys books like this. i have looked at how to drug sites to iunderstand more about home made drugs when my son got into the drug world. i kept waiting for ‘big brother’ to come knocking anytime (paranoia!!) but what do yall think? do you think that people who buy books such as these are put on a watch list? they should be. people who want to find out how to mess with a child and who think its just fine to do so should be watched closely.
i do not think books of this nature should be sold at a place where kids can buy things. in a gas station store the adult books are usually kept out of the way kids are not allowed to be in that area…..at least around here they are. i think. i know they used to be. geeze…what is this world coming to when you can buy a book to tell you how beneficial to a child it is to introduce them to sex. sorry for the ramble. this whole thing just got my mind going all over the place.

Richard

November 11th, 2010
12:19 pm

To those of you condemning Amazon for selling a book, do you condemn Glock for selling guns to murderers?

I think this issue says more about the customer base than the seller. Amazon’s responsibility is to sell their items, not to adhere to anyone’s moral code. My suggestion is that your anger is redirected to the fact that THERE ARE ACTUALLY PEOPLE THAT WANT TO BUY THE BOOK!!!!

MyOpinion

November 11th, 2010
12:25 pm

The authors words below.

“I wrote the book to establish guidelines so that people would behave in a manner that is non-injurious to each other, for one, and, for two, to communicate the fact that these people who are so different in maturation, etc., that when they develop relationships, they use certain principles that regular people, adults, would be well to attend.”

“The only personal perspective it was written from was that I was introduced to sex at the age of 7 by a 10-year-old girl. It was oral sex. And I carried on through that having that kind of sex with children until I was about 15,” he said. “And everybody involved enjoyed it.”

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/amazon-removes-pedophilia-book-store/story?id=12119035&page=1

MyOpinion

November 11th, 2010
12:27 pm

That should be “The author words below”

DB

November 11th, 2010
12:30 pm

@Lucy: It’s a nice thought — but unfortunately it’s not that kind of self-help. I saw some excerpts on another site, and even though the supposed premise is to “stay within the law”, it really is a nudge-nudge-wink-wink. The least objectionable excerpt was the suggestion that if pedophiles wanted to engage in self-gratification, they should only do it with pictures of fully-clothed children, because they could get in trouble if they possessed pictures of nude children. There were some others that were far too graphic to include here. Let’s just say it’s an illuminating look into the mind of a pedophile. *sigh*.

deidre_NC

November 11th, 2010
12:31 pm

posted by richard “My suggestion is that your anger is redirected to the fact that THERE ARE ACTUALLY PEOPLE THAT WANT TO BUY THE BOOK!!!!

yes…it bothers me immensly that there are people who think this is ok. it bothers me that it is sold at a place where kids can buy things. it bothers the hell out of me that there are people who think it is ok and even beneficial to a child to introduce them into a sexual life. we all know that there are sexual predators everywhere…just look at your local sexual offender registry. and these are only the ones who have been caught. my issue is that books like these should not be availble for children. ( i personally think they shouldnt be allowed anywhere-but there we go with censorship) unfortunately, if they prohibited every book of this nature, these things are still going to happen. if a person thinks its ok to have sex with a child there is no book they need to help them out there. child predators have a way of knowing which child would be more accepting towards their advances. that is why we need to give our kids all the love and goodness we can, so they will not be looking for it elsewhere and become a victim.

JATL

November 11th, 2010
12:51 pm

Let’s not exclude the last part of the interview with the author from the ABC link posted by MyOpinion:

“Greaves, who was a nurse’s aide until he retired because of a disability, said he was not encouraging pedophilia through his book, but, pointing to the case of Mary Kay Letourneau, the Washington state teacher who had an affair with her student, said he believed it was possible ‘to have a loving, sexual relationship with a child.’”

mom2alex&max

November 11th, 2010
12:57 pm

MyOpinion: so disgusting. I wish you hadn’t posted that.

JATL: we DO have statutory rape laws. And I believe they work both ways.

A child is not a sexual being YET. It is a CHILD. And they must be protected!!!!!!

I don’t give a rat’s a$$ what adults do with each other. Whatever is depicted in playboy, hustler and the other myriad of pornographic materials that are available is (regardless of my personal opinion) the business of adults.

This is different! It’s about CHILDREN!!!! Why cannot anyone understand that part????????????

mom2alex&max

November 11th, 2010
12:59 pm

I don’t CARE whatever sexual behavior adults want to engage in with each other!! Playboy, Hustler, whatever other pornographic material is available to the adult masses, who CARES!! They are adults and they have choices.

This is about involving CHILDREN in sexual behavior!!! They must be protected from those MONSTERS!! Why cannot anyone understand that??????

FCM

November 11th, 2010
1:05 pm

Yeah I am a libertarian and I get where DB is coming from. The 1st Amendment is not one to be touched without very careful thought.

I am also not big on kids having “rights”. However, even my Libertarian view says that kids have the “right” to grow up without the fear of being preyed upon–especially by these predators.

I have also read that pedophiles cannot be rehabilitated and will often repeat the crime. Therefore I think my he 2nd Amendment should apply…and of course the discussion from yesterday :) Or as several of the “hunting boys” I grew up with used to say…”I have a $0.75 solution to that problem and no problem instituting it.”

BluebellJones

November 11th, 2010
1:39 pm

Children do possess an inherent sexuality. It is not unusual for a 4 year old to come on to his mother. These are a childs first steps at establishing their sexuality. The response is, of course, to gently push them away while showing them that you are a trusted advisor. This sort of initial forey should be handled with great care, the child should not be yelled at or berated, just gently reminded of the way things need to be among relatives.
Also fscinated by the number of people who think it’s ok for the FBI to monitor peoples book reading habits. It’s not ok. The constitution establishes the right to privacy. And the FBI has better things to do with it’s time. Like checking into election violations.
Pedos are everywhere, most likely in the family. That would be an interesting topic for this blog-”What to do about Uncle Ernie”.

motherjanegoose

November 11th, 2010
2:05 pm

@ Economic…get off the airline thing will you? If EVERYONE boycotts the airlines, there will be surgeons who miss important training venues that could save lives, amongst others. Some of us cannot drive 18 hours one way to a meeting.

Not everyone flies just to go see Grandma and frankly, I sometimes wish many of those folks would stay home. There are SCORES of people who fly ALL THE TIME to do business across this country. Many travel much more than me! I don’t give a tooty what they see in those scanners….I have to get to a meeting and thus I will fly. Methinks most business travelers are not the ones making the most noise about it:

Privacy Concerns of Full Body Scanners: Low Priority for Business Travelers
by Rob Hard, January 20, 2010

Business travelers care about their experience at the airport, but having their privacy invaded by a body scan isn’t first on their list of concerns.

motherjanegoose

November 11th, 2010
2:14 pm

@ Economic …I am not an economist….I do fly all the time. Here are some economics…if those who pay $149 r/t to go and see Mickey Mouse decide to boycott over body scans and those who pay $819 r/t for a last minute business trip still travel as usual….the airlines are seeing reality economics of who is having a problem with the body scan…ya think?

Betty

November 11th, 2010
2:20 pm

I want so badly to believe that these perverts are rare and not really living all around us. Which is why I hope the story that just updated on the main page of this website is not true. Unfortunately, I’m afraid it probably is and that these perverts have mainstream jobs and some are CEO’s of companies.

Name (required)

November 11th, 2010
2:37 pm

Playboy isn’t pornography, actually.

cc

November 11th, 2010
2:59 pm

Adults can report an unwanted advance. It is our job to keep all children safe from any form of molestation. How can any form of pedophilia be legal? If a pedophile is thinking of a child in an inapropriate manner then they should not be within a mile of any children. That is so vial! I will not order anything else from Amazon!

deidre_NC

November 11th, 2010
5:13 pm

cjribera

November 11th, 2010
6:03 pm

Isn’t pedophilia a crime? aren’t the police departments enforcing internet child traffic?
If you commit a crime, no constitution amendment can save you….why would such principles would not apply here?

cjribera

November 11th, 2010
6:06 pm

besides, how can you compare normal porno with a book promoting pedophilia? are you sure you don;t understand the of sex between CONSENTING ADULTS and sex between and adult and a child?

Misty

November 11th, 2010
8:36 pm

Instead of boycotting Amazon, what about boycotting the publisher? I’m all for the First Amendment but not like this. If you want to hurt the author, go for the publisher.

mudhaq

November 11th, 2010
8:49 pm

These kind of irresponsible corporate behaviours should not go unpunished!.. Amazon exist to serve not only the intrest of its shareholders (profits) but other Stakeholders (Customers).. it will be a big leson to any corporate if we bring this corportate down.. Please, all responsible mother, further, brother, sister all from walk of life!.. think about it!!.. that could be your son, your doughter, your sister, your brother, your relative.. there life just destryed by Pedophile in his fantacy world… lets cancel our membership with this compny and stop buying any thing from Amazon!. if you read this message please, join me and do the right things!
Thanks

motherjanegoose

November 11th, 2010
9:44 pm

@ misty…did anyone else read this besides me:

Amazon allows authors to submit their own works and shares revenue with them.

I took it to mean self published….anyone else? This means there perhaps is NO publisher to boycott.

JATL…since you are better at reading comprehension that I perhaps am…care to share?

JATL

November 11th, 2010
11:47 pm

@mjg you are correct! This work is self published by the author who is selling it through Amazon. The other book mentioned- “Boylovers” or whatever is not published by Amazon, but they sell it and ship it themselves, meaning they buy advance copies to have ready to ship.

motherjanegoose

November 12th, 2010
7:49 am

see….I can read….LOL

Active Duty Mom

November 13th, 2010
7:06 am

As a survivor of sexual assault by my mother’s second husband as a child, I can tell you that most often a pedophile will not be a stranger but will choose their victim within their circle of family and friends. Suggestions to protect your children:

1. Let your child know that it is okay to for them to set boundaries–i.e., you do not have to give someone, even a relative or family friend, a hug or kiss. Example: Tell your child to say hello or goodbye to someone not “Give your Uncle Bernie a hug goodbye.”
2. Be very aware if your child appears to be very uncomfortable around someone and acts very different than usual. Example, if your kid does is fearful to be in the same room with or to be left alone with a certain person, something is up.
3. Always let your child know what is an appropriate touch and what is not. Let your child know that if anyone touches them in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable that it is okay to tell that person to stop and that it is okay to tell you. Most important, belive them if they tell you, even if that someone is a very close friend or relative and take action. Nothing is worse than a parent betraying a child and children generally do not lie about this stuff. Trust me on that one.

World Spinner

November 15th, 2010
7:36 pm

Should Amazon.com sell a pedophile guide book? Would you boycott ……

Here at World Spinner we are debating the same thing……

True American

November 16th, 2010
1:15 pm

“Well, thank God it seems good sense has prevailed.”

“In society, we have to draw a line. I’m all for the First Amendment and hate censorship, but a functioning society has to use some sense.”

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

That’s where we drew the line, and if that’s not good enough for you, than YOU, and YOU advocate boycotting (aka intimidation), YOU are not American. What you COULD have done–instead of 1) not reading the book 2) ergo, jumping to conclusions 3) intimidating a corporation 4) ergo silencing an author through a well-accepted, well-known form of media–was create a peaceful assembly to petition the government to amend the constitution by which would have been decided by a proper 3/4 vote by the people, for YOU people. God save the minorities from “American” COWARDS like you.