Condoms for first graders?

LUC – What STD’s would a normal 6 year old have? Seriously?

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JJ – Countless children are born every year with STDs. That’s what happens if your mother has an STD and then you come in contact with her bodily fluids. I know that seems unlikely to happen, but some people actually have contact with their mother’s bodily fluids through processes called “being in utero” and “birth”.

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It took me a few minutes to get off the floor after reading some of the post that liked this idea. With all respect to you people you are out of you minds. When I send my kids to school this in NO way is what I want my kids to be learning about. My, wife and I will decide when and were my kids will learn about sex and condoms. They are taking Parenting out of the rolls of Parents. That the mighty government knows how to raise you kids better that you do. This is a very slippery slop that we do not want to go down.

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…”I know that seems unlikely to happen, but some people actually have contact with their mother’s bodily fluids through processes called “being in utero” and “birth”.”

This scenario contributes to the increasing number of c-sections every year. The huge problem of genital herpes requires OB’s to perform c-sections so that the vaginal birth process does not infect the fetus on the way out of the birth canal…

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@TWG -I can see my first comment now. Don’t know how long it’s been up there, but no need to fool with the other long one because I was basically saying the same thing.

@catlady -holes in the wall cannot get pregnant or pass along/contract STDs, and small children will rub themselves and their genitals on things (and I assume as boys stick them into things) if it feels good, but not as an actual act of sex with another person!

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Many first graders are aware of sex. By first grade, you should know where babies come from. If a child is old enough to ask a question, then (s)he is old enough to hear the answer. As for the condoms, with venereal diseases present in today’s world (that weren’t present when the boomer’s were reaching pre-pubescence) it is critical that we educate young people about sex and protection. What’s wrong with telling children they should wait to have sex, but giving them the knowledge to have sex safely? Instill safe habits now, so when the time does come whether or not to wear a condom won’t even be a consideration.

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@Chris: The problem with “we must keep our kids safe” is that WE have absolutely no control whatsoever over a kid who decides to have sex. Any kid who is considering being sexually active knows what a condom is. But keep in mind that sex is seldom a carefully-thought-out procedure for hormone-driven kids, and even though they may have had sex ed aned even though they may understand how babies are conceived, they think they are fireproof — “IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN TO ME!” You can give ‘em condoms until you are blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is, when they get excited, you can’t stand over them coaching them how to put the darn thing on correctly, when to put it on, etc., etc. Kids (and many adults!) are basically stupid when it comes to their hormones and biological imperatives. Girls will believe a guy when he says, “Oh, baby, don’t worry, I’ll pull out” when they are in the backseat and sexually aroused. Guys will believe a girl when they say, “Oh, baby, don’t worry, I’m on the pill” (yeah, but I sorta forgot to take it the last couple of days . . .)

How is it that a parent can choose whether or not a child attends a sex education lecture — hell, there has to be a two page permission slip for a nurse to even give a kid a Tylenol! — but they can give out condoms without parental consent? How screwed up is THAT?

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Only in America… No wonder US has the highest teen pregnancy rate among developed countries.

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@ BlondeHoney…I AM NOT A PERFECT PARENT and both of my kids will be glad to tell you why…LOL.

@ JJ…are your eyes crossed today…there are some really LONG posts here and AHEM they are not mine! Imagine it?

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Elementary schools in Mass. often run K-8. While it would be shocking to distribute condoms in an elementary school that ends at 5th grade, if you include 8th grade in an elementary school, it is a different story.

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MJG – the horse is dead, quit beating it.

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@ JJ…I thought you brought the horse onto the blog yesterday…are you taking it back out?

I do not mind being criticized for on my LONG posts but I am obviously not the only one here who has something to say in more than one or two sentences.

I just had a two hour lunch with someone who wanted to pick my brain…imagine it? AND she paid for our lunch…that was a real treat and pleasure. Yes, I do have friends who can tolerate my wordiness and I am thankful for them!

@ Kar…sadly, I think your first paragraph at 3:11 is true. Some folks even voted for someone else to take care of them…and thought he would. How is that working out?

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In response to “Uh, Julie”: if you read the entire post (it really isn’t that long), you will notice that I said sex between minors may *or* may not be illegal. Different laws and different statutes apply depending on ages of all parties involved.

Yes, the age of consent in GA is 16, so a 17-year-old is considered an adult.

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I followed the link to the full article and found this:
“The policy was crafted following the recommendation of the town’s health advisory committee, Singer said. The school board unanimously backed the new rule June 10.” Is there an out break of some STD or something in this area prompting the recommendation?

And I am still caught up on the funding issue? Is this coming out of a school budget? I hope music or p.e. programs weren’t cut to fund the condom program…

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Phew. That’ll teach me to not look at the computer for a couple hours.
In regard to the 6-year-old-with-an-STD thread: The question was initially posed, “What 6 year old would have an STD?” It does happen for the reasons I described. I realize that this is being combated with increased c-sections (another practice that is part blessing/part tragedy), and I applaud those doctors who catch a disease in a pregnant woman in time to make the c-section decision. That said, there are still kids born with STDs of every kind.
And, as these comments have thoroughly demonstrated, kids have sex. Even if you were born with, say, herpes for instance, and lived with it through your childhood, whenever you and your hormones decided it was sex time, you might be more likely to make a wise(r) decision vis a vis condoms if you have access to condoms, know how effective they really are, and know how to use them.
FYI, I started having sex as a teenager. It was a stupid thing to do, I recognize in retrospect, but that’s neither here nor there. The fact is that I was doing it, just like many of my peers, and the fact is that I was adamant about using condoms, unlike many of my peers, and so I stole them. Frankly, I stole them long before I had sex, because I 1) had no income, 2) could not ask a grown-up for them, and 3) knew that if the moment arrived and the possibility of sex was before my 14 year old face, it was going to happen, condom or not, and with condom would be better. This is to say nothing of when a disease gets transmitted to an infant and nobody knows about it.

@DB – You basically proved my point for me. Kids are impulsive, reckless, and dumb, but also not dumb at all. As you said, they’re going to wind up in backseats with sweet talk and false promises. However, in the situation you’re proposing, those kids are in that backseat without having received an education that involved the availability of protection. Basically, you’re saying that kids are too dumb not to have sex, so we shouldn’t give them condoms because they won’t use them anyway? I think if making frank, one-on-one sex conversations, with the option of receiving condoms, available to anybody (including 5 year olds) will help plant the idea in one panting teen’s head that it won’t be that hard to take the darn thing out of your pocket and put it on if you’re gonna be getting busy anyway, then it’s a success.

Kids will have sex at the same rate regardless of how much education or lack of education is given to them. Always remember that. Kids are impulsive, and making them less prepared to deal with their impulses WILL NOT MAKE THEM LESS IMPULSIVE – ONLY LESS PREPARED.

And you have to sign a huge form to get your kids Tylenol in school because Tylenol is a drug. It has effects and side effects against which there are no protections other than not taking it. If kid eats Tylenol, X things will happen no matter what. A school ust ask parents because parents tend to know if their children have any conditions that will make Tylenol or other drugs harmful for them or if they do not want their children to experience the known, unavoidable effects of Tylenol. Remember, some people will die if they take Tylenol or any other seemingly insignificant things, whereas a condom is a piece of latex in a foil/plastic wrapper. It can’t kill you if a nurse gives it to you. It has no inherent effects or side effects.
Parents should not be able to withdraw their children from sex education either. Sorry parents, but the same argument applies as in all my other posts. Kids need to learn the truth about sex because it’s a very real part of their lives, and if they are uninformed they pose a serious threat to themselves, their partners, and society at large, and therefore it is just as essential to education as any other life or safety skill. Look both ways when crossing the street, chew your food 20 times before you swallow, and wear a condom if you have sex.
Parents’ decisions to disallow their children from sex ed is a moral one, and frankly a partisan one. Certain religious and cultural groups think that kids should no know about sex because it defies their moral structure? Great. Believe that all you want. Take them home from school and tell them that sex is wrong and it thinking about it will make their weenies fall off. Whatever. But that is an ideology, not fact, and therefore not suitable for public education. It would be like teaching kids in school that idol worship is dangerous. I personally find it reprehensible, but that doesn’t make it okay to be taught in schools.

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@ c’mon…I have never felt JJ was on my team REALLY?…BUT life is more than one team.

DB is the one who perhaps would defend me. Kathy and Michelle have been kind enough to join me for lunch too and who perhaps would validate ( along with DB) that I am wordy but two hours will fly by when we are getting together. Not everyone here likes me nor I them. I do get that!

Tolerance is the key to getting along and even sometimes I forget to use it.

In all cases ( which is where this started yesterday) , I have never understood those who attack either Theresa or Keith with a pointed post on the topic at hand. Yes, some topics do NOT appeal to me but I do not condemn the topic nor the author.

@ JATL, your points are good ones. My neighborhood is not typically the kind of neighborhood where kids witness their mama having sex with many men. BUT I do hear and see this from others.
Seems to me, we are using a band aid and not getting to the root of the problem…lack of self respect ( did DB mention it earlier) .

To me, our society is on a fast slide to the bottom. I just had an issue the other day where I was trying to be honest and do the right thing. The situation was going WAY out of control and I was being penalized. The customer rep said to me, “why don’t you just___________?” I replied, “because I am an honest person and try to do the right thing…” I know it caught her by surprise. She figured out how to take care of the situation.

When we reward those who are not honest and perhaps continue to take advantage of others….the slope is slippery and many will follow suit.

Some have already figured out that it is easier for everyone ELSE to pay taxes and ME to get the benefits of their hard work!!! After all, why should THEY have 2 houses when I cannot even afford ONE?

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Chris, your comments have been the most intelligent and well-thought out ones today. MJG, my boys will tell you just how imperfect a parent I am too, I’m sure :)

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Is this intelligent?

“Kids will have sex at the same rate regardless of how much education or lack of education is given to them.”

WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE? I actually called DB to ask her what is up with Chris’ comment.
Are we talking about SEX education or education as a whole?

EDUCATION IS NOT JUST TAKING PLACE IN THE CLASSROOM…LIFE IS EDUCATION

Opinions and attitudes are absolutely formed by the educational life experiences we all have.

If you stand out in the rain and get wet…you might remember to bring an umbrella next time!

If you leave your homework on the kitchen counter and get a zero…perhaps you will remember to put it in your bookbag next time!

If you spend your paycheck on the first two days…it will be a while until payday and you might stretch your check the next time!

Methinks that children who observe their Mother putting out for money ( especially if they do not have much money) might be educated on a different view of sex: how sex can pay bills and thus they may be more apt to participate at an early age….sadly, to get money of their own.

Children who see how having a baby can provide welfare money are educated in how this can pay bills. You do not need a job nor a husband…just have a few babies.

Conversely, those who have been responsible for small children may realize that you cannot put them on the shelf when you are done with them and that babies are NOT always cute….especially when they are wailing with an ear infection at 2 a.m.

I told DB, while we were at the beach with our little schnauzer, my daughter says:

” Are babies this much work too?” LOL…about 95% more and you cannot put them in the crate when you want to go out to work on your tan. She has worked with little kids for years and tells me she is NOT interested in having any of her own. I HOPE she will change her mind in 10 years but, for now, that is fine by me.

EVERY day is an education for children….attitudes, opinions and behaviors are being absorbed by little ears…which are BIG listeners. TV is shaping the way kids view the world. Parents who allow media to entertain their children are shirking their responsibilities.

Will our children always follow through with the positive ideals we have shared with them?
No! But sometimes they do come back to you and say, “Mom…you were right….!” I have had it happen to me and YES it is a wonderful day!

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What has this world come to??????? I TOTALLY DISSAGREE ON THIS CONDOM SUBJECT!!!! I DON’T THINK THIS IS RIGHT!!!!!
THIS IS ALL WRONG!!!! I WOULDN’T TRUST THESE WHOEVER THESE PEOPLE OR WHATEVER THEY ARE W/ MY KIDS!!!! THATS WHY THE WORLD IS SO SCREWED UP ANYWAYS; BECAUSE OF THESE PEOPLE!!!!!!
PRETTY SOON KIDS ARE GONNA BE PREGNANT WITH KIDS!!!! HELLOOOO USE YOUR BRAINS!!!! THIS IS THE KIND OF SUBJECT TO LEARN WHEN YOU JUST GET INTO JR HGH!!!! WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES!!!!! THIS IS HOW BABIES GET INTO TROUBLE BECAUSE OF THE TEACHERS OR PRINCIPALS TEACHING AND HANDING OUT CONDUMS TO 1 YR OLDS!!! THIS IS A SICK SICK SICK WORLD TODAY!!!!!!

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ooops…”CONDUMS TO 1 YR OLDS”…technically, I did not quote you exactly.

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This strikes me as media hype. First, I’m willing to bet this “elementary” school goes up to 8th grade. School districts on Cape Cod tend to be very small, and I think a lot of them have just two schools — a K-8 and a high school. It sounds to me like the school thought about what age would be appropriate, decided there was not one set age they thought was definitely the right cut-off, so they left it open deciding instead to counsel any kid that came asking for one on abstinance without ruling out the possibility of giving them a condom. But the better headline is: School to give condoms to 6-year-olds! To me, what really stands out here is, “Starting in September, students shopping for a free condom must have a heart-to-heart with a counselor – including a talk on abstinence – in order to be given one.” It sounds like the school’s main action/purpose is to ensure the kids talk to someone when they make it clear by requesting a condom, that they’re considering having sex. That part certainly seems like a positive step to me.

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This law firm condemns this policy, the people who passed it, and the agenda behind it. What do you think? Should a public school district be allowed to provide condoms to first graders whether their parents like it or not? Please vote: http://www.businesslawpc.com/blog.htm

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@Chris: I have been thinking about your post this evening. I found it disturbing, but I wanted to think about why, instead of just reacting. MJG and I had an animated conversation on this topic, and while I was talking to her, I began to put my finger on it — went out to a movie, came back, re-read it, and now I can identify what the problem is:

The whole problem with your argument is that you make sex out to be simply a physical act that needs to be managed — and it’s not. I made the same mistake when I dragged hormones and recklessness into the equation. The whole world has reduced the sexual act to a physical impulse, with no thought as to the emotional readiness to deal with life and its issues.

We spend so much time focusing on outward manifestations of “maturity,” it is a common mistake to assume that because someone understands the mechanics of sex and is blase’ enough to watch an R-rated movie at the age of 10 and “understand” it, or starts their period at age 10, we mistakenly think that the child is “mature.” Their little bodies may be maturing, but emotionally — they are still kids. And, unhappily, they are kids that society is deliberately crippling, by expecting them to grow up quicker than they can/should. And that includes allowing them to dress in clothes that are too old for them, wearing make-up at too young an age, letting them dance like hookers . . . and tacitly encouraging sex by freely providing condoms without regard to the emotional readiness — or neediness — that is exhibited by a child who is considering engaging in sex.

A child’s emotional growth must go through a series of stages that build one on top of the other in order for them to grow up to be an emotionally healthy adult, with the ability to form attachments to significant others and, indeed, to the world around them. Shortcut one of those stages, and it almost always means trouble down the road, whether it’s “looking for love in all the wrong places,” or not being able to sustain a lasting relationship. I stand by my original statement: It is child abuse to facilitate the emotional self-abuse that kids experience when they choose to have sex without being emotionally ready to handle the experience or the consequences, to help facilitate sex without it being surrounded by a relationship of love, trust and commitment.

I think we should be aiming higher than simply keeping them from getting pregnant. We need to be giving them a reason to choose NOT to have sex, one that they can embrace with confidence, self-respect and with dignity. A condom makes a really lousy band-aid.

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[...] was retweeted by someone in my twitter stream), but I first heard about this story on AJC’s Momania blog this [...]

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@ First Time Poster….I am over reacting at the insanity of the idea of condoms being offered to elementary schoolers and I have NEVER expected the school to raise my kids.

You did say you were a new poster. There are many others, on the blog, who are involved parents and also expressed the point that this is lunacy. Please re read our comments. You might start with DB…I believe she said it well when she said, “A condom makes a really lousy band-aid”. I called her yesterday, because I KNEW she would come up with something profound.

Is this not like, kids will cut themselves with knives no matter what….get the band aids ready. If you teach them how to use a knife and let them use one when they are mature enough to handle it…the accidents factor may be lower. We are giving kids KNIVES; SEX way too early via attitudes and media….they are being bombarded because some parents do not want to share what DB has been trying to say.

As parents, we usually put knives in a safe or out of the way place. We might do well with the same attitude about sex ( via media), until our children are ready for it. It does take work to turn off the TV and DO something with your kids or to police what you are watching and perhaps even curtail it. Some parents do not want the hassle and thus the condoms.

Not sure if we can ever prevent children from having sex but giving them a condom may not always be the best answer.

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