Should we be ‘Unschooling’ our kids?
A new education movement showed up on ‘Good Morning America” this week and parents are up in arms about the story. The movement is called “Unschooling.”
Based on what I read and watched on the “Good Morning America” web site, it sounds like a cross between extremely lazy Montessori and homeschooling. The basic gist as far as I can tell is that the kids choose what they want to study and how they want to study. But that they may mean they just watch TV or play video games that day. (I’m only comparing it to Montessori because kids get to choose what they work on to some degree – but in Montessori kids have and actual curriculum and lessons to choose from.)
The report estimated that of 56 million school children, 1.5 million are homeschooled and of that 150,000 are “Unschooled.”
From the GMA web site:
” ‘We find that we don’t need a whole lot of rules,’ Phil Biegler said in the segment that aired Monday. ‘They might watch television,’ Christine Yablonski said. ‘They might play games on the computers.’ ‘They might read,” her husband added. Most children will choose television over reading every time, but Yablonski said that “the key there is that you’ve got to trust your kids to … find their own interests.’ ”
In our house, that’s called summer.
Here are two videos about the movement called Unschooling. The first video is the original story that aired on Monday. The second video is when the parents came on to defend themselves because so many people wrote into “Good Morning America” outraged by the concept.
Original report
Defending themselves – second appearance.
So what do you think? Is this a legitimate way to educate your kids or are they just letting them play hooky as the reporter joked in the piece? Are there variations of this that could work?
What did you think of the parents in the first video who said they really have no rules and let their children choose when, where and what to eat and don’t make them take care of hygiene issues? (Go back and watch the first video if you missed that.)
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128 comments Add your comment
Finally...
April 23rd, 2010
6:43 am
…a topic that deals with parenting…
jan
April 23rd, 2010
6:53 am
I didn’t realize todays children and youth had any rules. Have you not noticed most of the behavior of our youth?
DB
April 23rd, 2010
7:14 am
Personally, I think what these parents are doing is akin to child abuse. “Discipline” means “to teach” — what they are doing is raising undisciplined kids, which means that they are failing to teach them. To raise a well-rounded kid, they have to be exposed to a wide variety of subjects, not just the ones that interest them.
*Shrug*. Sometimes I think of the line from the movie “Parenthood” — “You have to have a license to own a dog, or even to catch a fish. But they’ll let anyone be a (parent).”
mom2alex&max
April 23rd, 2010
7:17 am
T, my posts keep disappearing.
Terrie Lynn Bittner
April 23rd, 2010
7:28 am
Please note that these parents are not unschoolers. They are radical unschoolers. Radical versions of anything are far from the standard method. Most homeschoolers do not consider these parents to be unschoolers, but simply people who have abdicated their responsibilities as parents.
Real unschooling is actually very parent-intensive and requires a great deal of parental responsibility. The parents must create a learning-rich environment in their home and also train their children to be intellectually curious. The children need the self-discipline to carry out a child-led learning program. This is very challenging. The children also need basic literacy skills in order to learn. The parents create all of this, and in addition, frequently try to do it without textbooks or rote learning. Instead of reading about how flowers grow, the children will plant a garden. Of course, having done this, they will most likely want to read one of the many books about plants their parents had the foresight to place in the home, and may also want to go chat with professional gardeners to learn more. They will probably end up taking field trips to arboretums. In time, they’ve learned everything about plants they’d have learned at their desk, but because they were planting a garden and choosing learning methods, they not only learned how to teach themselves (an important life skill) but have also gained critical practical skills in a natural environment.
The parents’ job is to make sure the children are exposed to a wide variety of educational topics and have the resources and skills to pursue them. This is much more challenging, if you want your children to think it was all their idea, than to simply plop a textbook in front of them and to stand over them while they work.
Remember…radical is not typical. Very few parents are willing to take away their children’s long-term options by giving them too many when they are too young to understand the consequences of them.
shaggy
April 23rd, 2010
7:35 am
Yes, I have heard that this is method is VERY sucessful in cultivating young minds into bright young penitentary residents. Who needs discipline or learning how to actually do math, science, etc… I know one “unschooler” whose sucessful student is a very accomplished thief, because that was what interested him, and mom and dad went back to their own pursuits, happy that junior was finding his way on his own. Plus they didn’t have to spend any energy on unimportant stuff like, parenting. Dad could play golf, and mom had the pool boy for fun.
You gotta love these “modern” parents.
Jeff
April 23rd, 2010
7:41 am
My guess is that the children of these parents weren’t exactly lighting up the scoreboard at government schools, so there’s no real loss. I’m no huge fan of the current schooling theory, but it is what it is. I always hesitate to believe one or two radical examples and then make an assumption on the population as a whole. It’s called a statistical outlier and you don’t prove cause and effect on the outlier.
I know, I just put half of you to sleep if you even finished reading it. Have a good weekend all, I’ve got the munchkin. I think we’re going to the zoo before it gets too hot, if it doesn’t rain.
theresa
April 23rd, 2010
7:50 am
momtoalex ,,i will look for it as soon as I can . Getting everyone off to school.
Roswell Jeff
April 23rd, 2010
8:17 am
I agree with what Terrie Lynn Bittner wrote above – radical is not the norm. The reason it was on the news is because it is so whacked. Whacky things get attention. There is always going to be someone with no common sense that takes things to the extreme.
eh
April 23rd, 2010
8:35 am
I guess we will find out in about 10 years how this works.
As to the, “Whats the matter with kids these days?” comment, come on. Your parents said it about your friends. Your grandparents said it about your parents. Try to not be so cliche’.
Kids have always had the same problems and issues.
JJ
April 23rd, 2010
8:44 am
Awww Jeff, have a great time!!!!
Tired
April 23rd, 2010
8:52 am
Much as schooling often leads to adult employment, unschooling would presumably lead to adult unemployment. How could it not? What “job” is watching TV and following your own whim preparing someone for?
Roswell Jeff
April 23rd, 2010
8:55 am
I’m wondering if the parents are going to allow their kids to be creative and let them do what they want well into their adult years? Thoughts of the 45 year old single male, living in the basement, come to mind.
Ally
April 23rd, 2010
8:58 am
Terrie Lynn Bittner – Why do you have to unschool to do what you’re talking about? My kids go to school and I also encourage curiosity and hands-on learning at home. Yes, my kids would rather play video games and watch movies, but that rarely happens at my house. They like figuring out things on their own and reading anything that we have in the house (non-fiction definitely included). They also do great at tests at school, and my first grader was genuinely sad when CRCT testing ended last week for her. Stop underestimating what children are capable of or what they are interested in, and don’t be so lazy to not provide the tools and support that they need to grow and learn.
Van Jones
April 23rd, 2010
9:07 am
If I had been trusted to find my own interests when I was young I would NOT be in the position I am today. I would have always chosen the fun, easy tasks. Learning takes effort and I was not willing to put in much effort on my own.
Wounded Warrior
April 23rd, 2010
9:19 am
The mom sounded really whacked, and she never said if she was a dropout. the girl seemed clueless, and the boy will be 30 living in mom’s basement. Hygiene…unless they came afford dentures for the kids when they are 30…they need to at least brush their teeth. How do the parents expect these kids to support themselves as adults?
CEB
April 23rd, 2010
9:23 am
I went to college with a girl and her younger sister who were ‘Unschooled’ along other siblings. She and her sister (who was 15 and attending college courses)were both extremely intelligent, self-sufficient, successful, and worldly. I often asked her about her k-12 schooling because I was so confused about how on earth you would get an average child to do schoolwork when they have the option of learning only when they felt like it and only about things which they wanted to learn.
My opinion is that both the parents and the child have to be very motivated, inquisitive, eager to learn, and creative. To my knowledge, it’s not a system that works for everyone and it seems to be very intensive.
TechMom
April 23rd, 2010
9:23 am
First off, these people do seem more of the extreme. I would venture to guess that most good homeschool parents teach their children lots of things without text books and that’s part of what makes homeschooling great for some people & kids. It allows them the flexibility to go to a dairy farm and learn about cows versus plopping their kid in front of a book, worksheets or computer program on the subject that they will often not retain. That however requires lots of effort by the parents and these people certainly don’t appear to be doing much more than babysitting their kids/teenagers.
Of course this leads me to wonder how in the world the kids will function as adults and how much society will have to support them. I can see the headlines in 15 years when they decide to sue the Massachusette’s school board for not forcing their parents to school them.
DT
April 23rd, 2010
9:29 am
I wonder how this compares to the government schools. My wife (Teacher) says that most kids in public schools have no interest in learing either. The discipline that the teachers and administrators once had has been taken away and without discipline in class you cannot teach.
Pluto
April 23rd, 2010
9:39 am
This does not surprise me as a public school high school teacher. It maybe to an extreme but I see parents abdicating their role and assuming the role of friend to their children all the time. I wonder what the effect will be 10 or so years down the road. How are they developing skills that adults need to be contributing societal members? As Timothy pointed out, characteristcs of the end times will include lovers of self, lack of self control and undisciplined children to name but a few.
DigALittleDeeper
April 23rd, 2010
9:47 am
I really hope that these kids are trust fund babies, because we have already seen the results of kids who drop out of highschool.
There was a story on Channel 2 this morning about a prisoner at Fulton County who dropped out of school in the 4th grade. He use to pay other inmates to write letters for him, because he couldn’t read or write. He’s now and adult who has taken the initiative to learn how to read.
We chastise the poor when they do not participate in school and we talk about the middle-class or well to do as if “unschooling” is the new “cool” idea.
It’s obvious that these parents( in the video) attended school, but I’m wondering what drives a parent to this extreme. I hope the children decide to sue the parents, because the Massachusette’s school board is not the problem.
V for Vendetta
April 23rd, 2010
9:54 am
Child abuse. Plain and simple. Children have no voice and no choice. Parents who do things which endanger the lives and futures of their children are no better than those who beat their children.
This is mental abuse. Many, if not most, of the parents who participate in this style of “parenting”–I sure as heck won’t call it “learning”–are the types who are too lazy to actually teach and parent their children. They just want a name to affix to their laziness. I heard about a child who was “unschooled” up to ninth grade. When he arrived at my high school, the teacher who had him told me he couldn’t read, couldn’t write, and couldn’t interact with the other students.
Well done, indeed.
Reflection
April 23rd, 2010
10:00 am
Maybe it is because parents prefer to teach their kids in order instill their values in lieu of progressive liberal indoctrinaion. I have to redirect my kids toward the traditional culture and values. Your rights to do or be something does not change my values or culture. Schools push the idea things change and absolute truths do not exist.
John Q. Public
April 23rd, 2010
10:03 am
This is just another example of the tug-of-war between parents and the education industrial complex (which is an arm of the state). The state mandates (law) children attend school, but it does not have any substantial follow-up laws, which requite IT to actually educate children. Ultimately, education is a parental role – this includes monitoring/regulating TV time, non-academic reading, etc. The disturbing reality is, most local school boards don’t care about children, and a fair number of parents demonstrate an unhealthy level of care (helicopter/”not my kid” parents). We’ve got Wall Street cowboys raiding our IRAs and pensions, we’ve got American soldiers dying in two wars and we have double-digit unemployment. THESE (politicians) are the same people we have entrusted with our childrens’ futures?
Mid-South Philosopher
April 23rd, 2010
10:08 am
Interesting concept. The key is…to do this effectively…the parent(s) involved must have a beyond the sixth grade education!
JATL
April 23rd, 2010
10:09 am
Good lord -this is nothing but LAZINESS! Sometimes I wonder how some people even got the motivation and energy to breed in the first place! Sadly to say, I know of more than one “homeschooling” family that is basically subscribing to this principle. I’m not saying ALL homeschooling families -but I do know some where basically, the only thing the kids are ever going to learn will be from television, and the few field trips the kids go on to places like the zoo or the aquarium. These people with the idea that we should let our children choose whatever they want whenever they want just don’t want to be parents. Hmmmm -yes, let me ask my 4 year old how he wants to go about learning. Well, we’ll start off with a Scooby Doo marathon followed by “Toy Story 2″ and then spend the rest of the day at the playground or in the backyard. This should be interspersed with lots of chocolate and gummy candy. -And this would be his EVERY day routine because he’s a CHILD who needs some guidance! The person who quoted the line from “Parenthood” about needing a license is so right.
Spooly Retune
April 23rd, 2010
10:28 am
R U kidding me? ( Learned from my daughters texting) T.V. and videogames, texting and facebook, etc.,etc. already compete with my childrens studies. I stay on their case all the time to set down these vices and do a little homework. It’s a constant struggle as is. Given the choice, I feel strongly I can predict what my kids would choose.
LibraryJim
April 23rd, 2010
10:46 am
I like what Louis L’Amour had to say on education:
“Acquiring an education has many aspects, of which school is only one, and the present approach is, I believe, the wrong one. Without claiming to have all the answers, I can only express my feeling that our methods of instruction do much to hamper a child in learning. Our approach is pedestrian. We teach a child to creep when he should be running; education becomes a task rather than excitement. Yet each of us can remember one or two teachers who made learning an adventure, which it surely is. Personally, I believe children should be taught to see, to observe, and to subject what they have seen to analysis, and this in the earliest grades.
To me it also seems obvious that a child should be taught some methods of reasoning, methods of scientific investigation. Children have an innate feeling for logic and, given the opportunity, would learn quickly. Such instruction would be unthinkable in any country not a democracy, and if carried out in a democracy it might clear the air of a lot of loose thinking, loose public speaking, and the kind of questionable statements that fill the air during political and other campaigns. The first generations of parents who had such children would have a difficult time but would find their own thinking undergoing drastic change. We do not at present educate people to think but, rather, to have opinions, and that is something altogether different. Many of the political ideas that have disturbed the world in the past fifty years could not exist in such an atmosphere.”
That's called "Laziness"
April 23rd, 2010
10:49 am
No matter how they want to state it, it’s called laziness and that’s 100% of the problem with kids today. We can all point to educators, society, technology, internet, etc., and scream about it until we’re blue in the face…the reason it’s allowed to happen is because WE ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN.
Why are kids falling behind in education? Because people today who have kids are not parents, they are caregivers and buddies. It’s tougher to set rules and to be consistent and guide your children by those rules and dole out punishments and rewards when necessary. It’s so much easier to just placate kids with time-consuming (and mind-numbing) alternatives like video games and television, most of which has no redeeming educational value whatsoever.
The parents who are choosing this option are those who got tired of calls from the schools, from teachers and administrators, and chose the path of least resistance (and least work) and “home schooled” their kids. It also allows an easy out for one parent who doesn’t want to burden themselves with a job and real world responsibilities, so they come up with this crap as a viable excuse to stay home.
No matter how you vote or what party you affiliate yourself with, this is the real reason America is crumbling. It should transcend political lines and religions and anything else – we have fostered a sense of being that tells us to shrug off responsibility and to beg for handouts and help when poor decisions on life, budgets, and parenting have gone awry. The reason government has become too big and intrusive is because people not only are asking for it, but begging for it with the way they live their lives.
If you’re too lazy to raise a child properly, do the rest of the country a favor and either abstain or sterilize yourself. And if you’re too lazy or stupid to make repsonsible decisions for yourself, then stay at home with your parents until you finally achieve adulthood and can live independent of someone else and the government.
GT
April 23rd, 2010
10:52 am
@ Reflection -
Not all public school classrooms are as you describe. My son has a great AP US History teacher that hasn’t tried to indoctrinate or push liberal viewpoints on his students. I think sometimes we on the right like to paint with big brushes. Instead of demonizing public schools, maybe we should get involved and begin to fix our local schools.
Beowulf
April 23rd, 2010
10:54 am
Great, just more ammunition for the anti-homeschooling crowd…I understand homeschooling is not for everyone, but I have seen it have some great results. And some weird ones too. Very weird. Anyway, this country should allow parents the freedom to homeschool their kids if they want. Period.
If we don’t have some failures, who will work at McDonald’s? Right now it’s mostly high school dropouts, but if a few “unschoolers” join the crowd I don’t care. Just make sure my fries are hot!
HB
April 23rd, 2010
11:01 am
I think unschooling could be good for very few families out there, but this isn’t one of those families. Really, they seemed lazy to me. Unschooling, while specifically not setting rules for how and when to learn, does not have to mean children have no rules in their lives at all, which seems to be this family’s philosophy.
I saw a story a few years back with a mom “unschooling” her daughter; I think it was on 60 Minutes. The little girl was very bright and curious, and her mother did a great job really feeding her interests without setting a curriculum or a timeline. She worked hard to find information on what her daughter wanted to study, and took her places that related to the current interest. As I recall, the child was allowed to choose when, how, and what to study, and she could choose to play when she felt like it, but they didn’t have a TV. She seemed to entertain herself mostly by learning about her interests, including playing the violin. There wasn’t the imposed discipline aspect of more formal education, but the child seemed to have a lot of self-discipline and a strong desire to learn. So in some cases, I think it can be beneficial, but I do believe those cases will be exceedingly rare.
Cammi317
April 23rd, 2010
11:11 am
People never cease to amaze me. Every time I thought I have heard and seen it all, something new comes along… I definitely believe in raising an independent and inquisitive child and she definitely asks a lot of questions when things do not seem logical (sometimes to her teachers dismay, when they can’t come up with a valid explanation). At times her inquisitiveness can be obnoxious and exasperating, admittedly, but this “unschooling” just sounds bizarre to me. However, since I know nothing of this method, I will not judge further.
Seriously?
April 23rd, 2010
11:29 am
I’m so sick of hearing about all of this nonsense! What is wrong with sending your kids to school, having them behave properly and learn? Asian and European kids go to school longer than US kids and truly, I think they are smarter. The high school cashiers @ Mcdonald’s can’t make proper change while a Japanese teenager likely does college-level math (well, college level in the US) and speaks 2, if not more, languages fluently.
The thing that is lacking in American education is not exposure to xyz or abc but a lack of discipline (not punishment but self-discipline, which parents have to teach). When kids can get away with murder at home and bad grades/bad behavior aren’t swiftly punished, you have the kinds of children that I see now. They want everything handed to them on a silver platter, they can’t think for themself, they can’t follow rules, they have no manners.
MORE SCHOOL, MORE OFTEN!
Wayne
April 23rd, 2010
11:31 am
I had never heard of ‘unschooling’ until I was looking at some of the work one of my friends from way back has done. He’s making a movie on unschooling. He had some things to say about the GMA piece and how it got it wrong. I don’t know enough about it to say anything pertinent, but I can say that my oldest son is at Sylvan being tested right now so that we can prove to the public school system that he IS a bright kid and that he needs a bit more than what he’s being offered currently.
He’s bored silly and it’s affecting his schoolwork.
We are also changing him to another school next year -private- that has more to offer in the way of services like arts, music etc. for him.
Beowulf
April 23rd, 2010
11:40 am
Wayne,
The brightest kids are the ones our schools do the most disservice to. We are no longer allowed to propel them ahead the way we should because it might make the other kids feel bad. Seriously, this is why I had to stop teaching! They are trying to mainstream all kids, it’s like forcing everyone to take their cars to Wal-Mart for service. Sure they do ok with basics, but if you have an old car on its last legs, or a BMW or Mercedes, you want somebody with expertise working on it! We are fine with doing this for our cars, why should our kids not be more important?
Wayne
April 23rd, 2010
12:06 pm
I agree wholeheartedly. I can’t put all the onus on the teacher, but she doesn’t like being challenged, especially in a class of 25 students who range from extremely bright (there are a few, and we’ve talked to other parents who are experiencing what we’re experiencing) to, well, not so bright. She has to accommodate all of them.
Not her fault, but when you sit with a team of ‘educators’ and they are giving you a very hard time, you seriously start thinking about other avenues; homeschooling or unschooling. In our case, we feel pretty strongly that we aren’t educators so off to another school, he is.
Technically, Seriously?...
April 23rd, 2010
12:07 pm
…regarding “a Japanese teenager…speaks 2, if not more, languages fluently” – since most European and Asian countries are much smaller than the USA, and many of the “countries” are smaller than a lot of the individual states in the USA (and speak a different language than the countries on their borders), you could make an argument that we Americans speak 50 languages fluently since each state (country)has some sort of “English” as its language, not to mention we speak Australian, and British, and Irish, etc…
Roswell Jeff
April 23rd, 2010
12:22 pm
Only speaking from my limited experience, the public school my son goes to does everything they can to push the kids. There is one child in my son’s class that they moved to the next grade sometime before the beginning of the year. My own son has been “pushed” into upper classes that he is accelerating in. This is elementary school, I have no idea what it will be like as he moves on to the other schools in our cluster. Every school varies and the Administrator at the top sets the tone on how things go.
G.R.I.T.S.
April 23rd, 2010
12:25 pm
i am all for home-schooling if a family has the resources needed to do this in a successful way (resources meaning finacial-education etc) i have known some people who were homeschooled who went to college and became successful adults. i had so many problems with my kids in school, trying to get them the challenges they needed for their level of intelligence and ability to learn, i would have home-schooled if i had been able to. i had to work, was a single parent and just simply couldnt afford to do it, so i fought and struggled with the school so that they could get the extra learning they needed. it worked about half way. if i had been financially able i definately would have homeschooled. i cant in my wildest dreams imagine a home with no rules. how do they do that? so you tell johnny to go mow the lawn and he doesnt want to so then what? in my family we all had chores and things that were expected of us. i just cant imagine a home without this. does mom and dad end up doing everything and the kids never learn to take basic care of a household or even themselves? and if there are no rules, i guess mom and dad dont have to do anything either? good grief!! how do these kids pass a college entrance exam much less the SAT or ACT…or the test to get into the military? if they want to go to college do they then start studying to pass the entrance requirements? i just cant see how this can be legal at all. i thought homeschooled kids (which this is basically in the same category officially) had to pass tests every year…the kids i know who were home schooled had to pass tests each year. im all about kids getting more than what they are taught in school, but to get less..??? id love to know some of the people who have been raised and ’schooled’ this way and to see where they are today and if they are in a good place how they got there.
Wow, what a contrast...
April 23rd, 2010
12:30 pm
…this topic and the just posted “Get Schooled” topic on the triplets at public school (and Dekalb County, at that) Lakeside High School being named salutatorian (2 of the girls) and the other the valedictorian – not a bad commentary on “public schooling”…
V for Vendetta
April 23rd, 2010
12:33 pm
Beowulf and Wayne,
I’m sorry, but you two sound like “those parents.” You know, the ones who think that since their children are SO smart, they must not be challenged enough by the lowly curriculum, teacher, etc., etc., ad nauseam.
You must have kids in horrible schools. We have a large number of fantastic Gifted and AP students at my (public) school who are constantly and consistently doing college-level work. Believe me, they are challenged.
I also want to point out that being bored is NOT an excuse for misbahavior or bad grades. In the event that your child is stuck in a class that is truly beneath him or her, he or she must learn how to deal with it and still come out on top. Being bored is NEVER an excuse for any type of negative response–whether it is physical or academic. If that’s your attitude, then your children are in for a shock when they enter the real world. “Oh, I’m sorry, Boss. I didn’t do the work because it is beneath me and I was bored.”
We’ll see how that one works out.
FCM
April 23rd, 2010
1:13 pm
WOW I thought “unschooling” is what we do to counter the ” progressive liberal indoctrinaion” they received in (public) school.
Jeff have fun with your little one!
Jessica
April 23rd, 2010
1:24 pm
I would never consider ‘unschooling’ my own children (though I might consider some other method of homeschooling) but I don’t think it’s fair to judge this educational approach based on a few nuts you saw on GMA. OF COURSE they are going to feature the most shockingly neglectful examples they can find; it’s the best way to create a buzz about the story.
FCM
April 23rd, 2010
1:28 pm
“Jim Collins book, Good to Great, states that good is the enemy of Great! We don’t aim high and miss – as we would like to believe. In fact, most times, we aim low and hit the mark! As parents, [he implored us] not to aim low! Aim high!!!” (excerpts of a speech given by Brad McCoy)
Wayne
April 23rd, 2010
1:37 pm
Wow, V. You can come up with that, just based on what I wrote? Seriously? You’re good! I don’t think I ever said my son was misbehaving or getting poor grades – much the opposite.
I’ve mentioned on this blog previously the type of work my son does. I just got off the phone with my wife; while we don’t have the full report yet, my son, who is 6, in first grade, is reading at a solid 4th grade level, up to 6th grade level. His vocabulary in the words of the Sylvan rep (who has no bias either way, right?) is ‘way up there’. She was very impressed with him.
Her words again: ‘I can see where he might be having problems in school’.
Yes, I know, every person thinks they’re child is the brightest one on the planet, but, having spoken to other parents at our school who have run into this very same thing, and have had to test their kids – outside of the school system because the school system won’t – we decided to have him tested to see where he falls.
Is that wrong? I don’t think so. This is in an effort to get him services that he needs as a student. The school system won’t do any more than it has to, and that’s for the less gifted students. I’m not saying my son is gifted, but what I am asking is that you recognize that he needs a bit more challenging than ’see spot? See spot run?’.
Again, is that to much to ask?
BTW: this school is in Massachusetts; I’m assuming your school is not?
catlady
April 23rd, 2010
2:12 pm
Heck, just lock ‘em in the closet!
JATL
April 23rd, 2010
2:21 pm
@Seriously? You make some excellent points! One of the reasons the USA lags far behind in education of our kids through age 18 is that we do NOT follow more European and Asian models. There are certainly Asian models I don’t think any of us really want (many Chinese schools certainly have performers, but they do humiliate to get them there), but if we would follow the European system of education where they still TRACK and assign kids to certain levels, we would be in much better shape. The other point is also correct -parents desperately need to instill some self-discipline in kids. Our entire nation seems to have gravitated toward being a bunch of fools who want everything without putting forth any effort.
catlady
April 23rd, 2010
2:35 pm
Waye, methinks you have been the victim of code! Don’t know your kid; just a guess based on nearly 4 decades of experience teaching.
Meme
April 23rd, 2010
2:37 pm
As a public school teacher, I sometimes wish that more parents would homeschool their children. However, I don’t think the unschooling is anything more than the parents letting the kids run the house.
Uh, oh - Wayne is...
April 23rd, 2010
2:46 pm
…turning into another motherjanegoose…must be something about northerners (Chicago for motherjane and somewhere on the east coast for Wayne)…
V for Vendetta
April 23rd, 2010
2:48 pm
Wayne,
I’m sorry if I came off harsh. You must understand, I see this sort of thing daily. Sometimes, I just get a little fed up. If your school is unable to serve your son, I feel for you. When I was in Elem. school, they pulled those of us reading that far ahead out of class. We had a small reading group comprised of students reading beyond the Elem. text books. We remained in that group through third or fourth grade. By fifth grade, we had all migrated on to adult novels and what not, so I didn’t really care what we were reading in class. Easy A and all that.
I hope your son has similar opportunities, and I applaud you for finding them. I honestly think that reading Jurassic Park in the fifth grade is what set in stone my love of books. Up until that point, they were simply a welcome relief on a rainy day. After that, they became an addiction. I can’t think of a better vice. :-)
Good point, JATL...
April 23rd, 2010
2:49 pm
…”Our entire nation seems to have gravitated toward being a bunch of fools who want everything without putting forth any effort”. Neal Boortz couldn’t have said it better – did you steal that from him? Obviously, you are not an Obamabot….thank goodness.
Wayne
April 23rd, 2010
3:03 pm
@V; Welll…. okay… ;) All I’m asking is that if my youngest son can get an IEP for being delayed, why can’t my older son read something a bit more challenging. Putting him in another reading group would be perfect! The problem is that the school won’t acknowledge any student who is excelling; all we parents have to prove to the school that they are bright, and then maybe they will do something.
Yeah, I suppose I can’t blame them, budgets and all, but when you see (and hear) about all the money spent on IEP kids, it gets a bit much. If we were the only parents butting heads with the school system, I’d say more power to you and move on my way. We’re not, so I’ll keep pushing.
He loves books. He’s reading Hardy Boys now, and flying through them. We’ll ask questions about what he has read and he’ll tell us all about it. It’s very cool to listen to him talk about them because as a kid, I read them and it dredges up old memories.
What’s a ‘victim of code’?
As for the motherjanegoose reference, I’m not sure I follow? I don’t travel for a living.
JATL
April 23rd, 2010
3:13 pm
@ Good point JATL -thank you! I’m actually not “anti-Obama” in many respects, but I find that there isn’t a viable political party that really stands for my beliefs. I like Libertarianism on many levels, but I DO support government programs for some things. I’m one of the many “socially liberal and fiscally conservative” folks who find themselves a bit lost when it’s time to vote…but I definitely agree with Neal when he starts talking about those who expect to become millionaires by sitting on their a**es (and not in front of a work computer).
Don't worry, Wayne...
April 23rd, 2010
3:21 pm
…when motherjane gets online SHE will explain…
Wayne
April 23rd, 2010
3:21 pm
It’s amazing to me when I speak to (and listen to) older kids; everything has to be handed to them. All I can remember was how much I had to work to get a car, pay the insurance and put gas in it. Even getting a job was you started at the bottom and worked your way up. Back when I interviewed folks for IT positions, they wanted to be CIO. Hey, you’ve got to start somewhere, and generally speaking, it ain’t the top.
All I saw in the GMA video was a couple of kids playing around. I’m not sure that constitutes ’schooling’.
Wayne
April 23rd, 2010
3:26 pm
LOL Okay, I’ll wait…
Wayne
April 23rd, 2010
3:27 pm
Still want to know what “victim of code” is though… That one has me stumped!
uberVU - social comments
April 23rd, 2010
3:37 pm
Social comments and analytics for this post…
This post was mentioned on Twitter by AJCinEducation: Should we be ‘Unschooling’ our kids? | Momania: A Blog for Busy Moms: http://bit.ly/bIqySk via @addthis…
Spunky
April 23rd, 2010
3:47 pm
So I’m wondering why no one is asking if this is a legitimate piece of reporting? Stephanopoulos sets up his bias from the beginning and the video takes it from there leaving the viewer completely manipulated toward only one outcome this is all bad and parents all over America asking if this is “legitimate.” Has anyone ever heard of EDITING?
Has the girl ever had her teacher put her in a taxi and haul her off for an abortion without her parents consent? I doubt it but that’s what happened to a minor in Washington State just a few weeks ago.
Has this young man been in a “ten second” fight club with this his school mates? I doubt it. While we’re upset that he and his sister are play fighting in the front yard, middle and elementary school kids are beating each other bloody in upscale schools all across America.
Has anyone stopped to wonder what this “journalist” didn’t ask these kids? How about instead of what grade you are in (completely irrelevant question passed age 18) to what are you interests and long term goals? How about instead of asking what college are you going to be able to get into, Chang could have asked what countries they’ve already been too.
But we wouldn’t want to ask those questions because that would make these children seem normal, maybe even above average. Instead, we get a story with an obvious bias and a national viewership that sucks it all in. Group think at it’s finest and the very reason these parents don’t want their kids to be a part of it at all.
For more thoughts on this article and homeschooling in general visit my blog
http://www.spunkyhomeschool.blogspot.com
penguinmom
April 23rd, 2010
3:54 pm
@Wayne, my own (and my husband’s) boredom in school is one of the main reasons we homeschool. I was a math major in college and remember almost getting a C in junior high in a math class because I was so bored out of my skull it was hard to pay attention. My husband was called into the office in 2nd grade because he hadn’t done his seat work. He completed a Month’s worth of assignments in 30 minutes. Just hadn’t done them because he already knew the material.
It is hard to have a child reading that far ahead. My eldest son was reading well beyond his level and it makes it very difficult to find appropriate books for them to read. Textbooks for his ‘grade’ level were a short read for him so we had to move up a couple of grades in the material we presented. I ended up pre-reading all of his books until he was in middle school just to be sure they didn’t present topics above his maturity level.
On topic, unschooling can be a cop-out for lazy parents. As a homeschooler, I sometime wish these parents would get on track instead of giving the entire movement a bad name. If a parent is diligent and offers a wide variety of educational experiences, unschooling can work for many students. The graduation requirements we have in Georgia are nonsensical for some students. Not everyone needs to take PreCalculus or even Algebra 2. (remember I’m a math major so I love math, but many topics aren’t really practical in every day life). Preferrably, everyone should be required to take Business Accounting so that they can handle money and understand business practices. This is useful info for your adult life. Not everyone needs to read the full text of the books covered in English. There are concepts/themes you need to grasp but a lot of students would get these just as well through a synopsis followed by a well-done movie as opposed to wading through Victorian English. Unschoolers are merely taking this concept to a radical conclusion and letting their children determine what is going to be important for the future they want for themselves.
The hygiene thing is just gross. It’s not unschooling to let your kids decide when to bathe or brush their teeth. That is a matter of sanitary/good health practices that are as important as teaching your baby to talk and walk. Also, allowing the family in general to be a complete egalitarian society is not useful because that does not represent real life.
Linda masci
April 23rd, 2010
4:16 pm
I think these parents are just lazy! They are doing a disservice to their kids. We are instructed to raise our children up in wisdom and understanding and I don’t see that they are doing either. The sad thing is when they get out “in the real world” they will be shocked that they now have to go back to their toddler ages and be taught about responsibilities, consequences, deadlines, studying to gain understanding about God or any other topic. Very sad! I am a homeschooler and I would never raise my child to be self-centered like that! I think if they didn’t want to be parents they should not have had kids. In this case, I think the school system would have been a better option for them. It gives all the well-meaning homeschoolers a bad name.
Seriously?
April 23rd, 2010
4:45 pm
FCM – “progressive liberal indoctrination?” Seriously? Are you holed up in your trailer with a bible, some guns and your sister-wives?
Being scared of education is not becoming.
Faye
April 23rd, 2010
5:02 pm
GMA didn’t do a thorough job of explaining unschooling; no doubt they were going for shock factor. Unschooling wouldn’t work for everyone, just as trade school or private school wouldn’t work for everyone. But unschooling does have some redeeming qualities, and many unschoolers go to college/get good jobs/lead productive lives. No doubt some unschoolers/homeschoolers will have trouble once “school” is over, but that could be said about any child, no matter their educational background. For a different look at unschooling: http://tinyurl.com/26a2fxt
mom2alex&max
April 23rd, 2010
5:29 pm
I think they are out of their minds.
I can just imagine these kids getting a job (assuming they go to college, which seems far fetched) and when the boss hands them an assignment and they say: sorry, man, this doesn’t really interest me. I wanna pursue my own goals here.
FCM
April 23rd, 2010
5:35 pm
ROFL….Far from being scared of education….I just think the public school breeds sheep. No trailer, no guns, etc.
I am a Liberterian so I think that the schools and their everyone should be treated the same — NCLB don’t hurt Susies feelings because she cannot read, keep the whole class at one pace lest Joey lose track is STUPID.
Education doesn’t happen school, at best the school gets the basics and a really GOOD teacher fosters a life long love of learning. If your schooling stopped when you got your diploma you have stunted your growth potential.
catlady
April 23rd, 2010
5:37 pm
Okay, Wayne, I will bite the bullet. “I can see where he might be having problems in school” would be a nice way of saying either “He is so bright Georgia Power could use him to power the school”, OR “I can tell by his behavior one on one that he is probably difficult to handle in the regular class where he is NOT the center of attention”.
I have two bright kids (IQs in the 120 range) and one very bright (150+). My son, the latter, was clammoring for Shakespeare at 6. He quoted Shakespeare’s Hamlet soliliquy to the psychometrist at age 7. I know about bright kids. I have taught quite a few.
Your comment about the objectivity of Sylvan’s personnel is a little funny. Why would they be biased? (Drumroll) To please you, their employer! Is their tester acceptable to the school system, by the way? Many who bill themselves as “qualfied” are not accepted, if you end up back in the public schools. Beware! I had my son privately tested by the nearby university (the school system drug their feet for a year).
Your son is fortunate to have you as an advocate, and to get him a chance at an education that you feel will better meet his needs. Best wishes to him and you! None of my comments above are directed at your son, merely observing based on experiences.
FCM
April 23rd, 2010
5:41 pm
OH and seriously, I am back in school for my second college degree. I am a HUGE believer in learning.
Terrie Lynn Bittner
April 23rd, 2010
6:27 pm
Ally, in theory they can learn to be excited about school, but most schools kill the love of learning. Here’s a story I tell in my first book: My children were reading and doing math before kindergarten, just because it was fun. They loved learning. Then they went to school. I pulled the the two youngest out in second and third grade after being told they were so advanced the school had nothing to offer them. The first day of homeschool, they did a math worksheet and ran to me saying, “Here’s our papers. Give us our candy.” When I looked confused, they explained in school they got candy if they did their work. I refused, and they asked for stickers or some other reward. I decided not to even give them a grade, explaining that learning was its own reward. We went over the papers, corrected mistakes, and went on. It took a year to give them back what they’d lost.
Look at it this way: We don’t reward children for eating cake or playing with toys. We only bribe them to do things they’d never want to do otherwise. So grades, stickers, and worst of all, candy, tells a child learning is something no one in his right mind would do without being forced or bribed.
I was “afterschooled” as a child. I plowed through unmemorable school days and then rushed home to do my real learning with my parents. I remember almost nothing of what I learned in school, and nearly all of what I learned at home. My parents didn’t open my brain and dump in knowledge. They taught me how to learn, and today, I can learn anything I want to learn.
Although I had a few good teachers, I’m an author because my mother taught me to read and write and my father taught me how to be an independent scholar.
We did both structured and unstructured homeschooling at different times. My son just got two scholarships in a week and has been on the deans list every semester. He knows how to learn, and unlike his traditionally schooled peers, isn’t burnt out on forced learning. I gave him both discipline and freedom, something test-laden schools can’t do. What is taught on standardized testing only creates standardized brains, and those can’t change the world.
Alasandra
April 23rd, 2010
7:16 pm
As a retired Homeschooling Mom (both my children are now in college) I really resent That’s called Laziness attitude. Homeschooling certainly isn’t the path of least resistance and if anything it involves MORE WORK, then simply shoving your child out the door and sending them off to public school. There are lesson plans to develop, educational field trips to plan, papers to grade as well as researching which textbooks to use, researching what different colleges require and maintaining transcripts and other paperwork. We choose to homeschool because we wanted our children to receive the BEST education possible. Our eldest son started college at 16 and is now working on his Masters in Computer Science, our youngest son in a freshman in college, and both work part time. They are both happy successful young adults.
penguinmom
April 23rd, 2010
7:56 pm
@Alasandra – I homeschool as well and I believe the laziness comments were not aimed at homeschooling parents in general but at the unschoolers portrayed in the piece. The parents shown don’t think there should be any rules or discipline at home and seem to believe the kids should make their own decisions about everything including hygiene and eating.
catlady
April 23rd, 2010
9:01 pm
Wayne, one more anecdote: When my son was in first grade, he “went up” to 5th grade for reading, which was appropriate in terms of his reading skills, including literal comprehension. (Our school was small, 230 kids grades K-7; our principal was willing to be flexible) However, he was still 6 years old in terms of maturity. (His handwriting, for example, was that of a first grader.) His first grade teacher, who was in her first year of teaching, didn’t quite know what to do with him, so she pulled 5th grade level work for him. One topic he studied was “International Workers for World Peace”. He studied Ghandi, Dag Hamerskold, etc, and could easily answer factual questions about them. HOWEVER, when he came to the “mature thinking” question, well, he was just 6. The question was, “As a citizen of the world, what can YOU do to help promote world peace?” And his answer…..”I’d fight for it!”
Crimson Wife
April 23rd, 2010
9:51 pm
I don’t follow an “unschooling” approach in our family’s homeschool but I have observed that it can work very well in other families. Don’t forget that the Colfax family “unschooled” their children all the way to Harvard University.
Chris
April 23rd, 2010
10:15 pm
I have to laugh at till all of these posts about how these parents are irresponsible. The kids that are rude and lazy are kids that are in traditional school. Parent are lazy and want the school to take care of them. Homeschoolers and Unschooler know their kids and their kids dont act like this. Also remember that they showed them watching tv and using the game due to name brand not being able to be shown on tv without clearance. Kids that are unschooled can get jobs , they usually start with an apprentice and then goes from there.
Sarah Johnson
April 23rd, 2010
10:31 pm
It appears unschoolers get angry when someone suggests they should work with the public school system.
http://giftededucation.suite101.com/pages/article.cfm/what-public-schools-lose-when-gifted-kids-are-homeschooled
Chris
April 23rd, 2010
10:45 pm
funny thing is I don’t unschool.
Kim
April 23rd, 2010
11:08 pm
Testing…
quiltermama
April 24th, 2010
12:13 am
How is this family different than others? How many teenage children skip school while parents are too busy to even talk to them? Parenting is more than sending children to school to jump through some hoops for a dozen years. While I’m a home schooling parent, we are very flexible with what our children learn. We are NOT unschoolers- we have been by necessity in the past, but there were rules- just no academic learning for that time period. However, my children are not behind at all. I doubt these children will be “behind” either. How many public school children have you met that are brats and hate everything about their lives- and ARE exposed to things children should never be exposed to?
mommyof4
April 24th, 2010
3:14 am
While I do not agree with unschooling, this report seems to be a setup for future criticism against all homeschooling. Homeschooling is an extremely successful method of educating our youth. To be fair to homeschooling we should also measure the percent of public school and private school dropouts or failing students. We should also do a study on the public/private school teachers who are doing poor jobs of educating their students. I doubt that media would paint such a poor picture of all teachers due to 10 percent teaching at subpar levels.
Momx3
April 24th, 2010
3:36 am
Anyone who says homeschoolers are lazy have never met a homeschooling family on the classical track – My kids work hard, damn hard, harder than they would at school and if they want to go to university in the future they will have the academic scores and aptitude to do it. It’s my job to make sure that they do. To the person who said homeschooling is an excuse for one parent to stay home, GET A LIFE! I parent, I homeschool and I run a successful business corporation. Play hard or go home. And if Americans want to worry about the effect homeschoolers are going to have on your nation, consider this, right wing Christian groups are not only training up kids with scripture, they’ve got whole programs that run from elementary through to college that teach U.S constitutional law. The main body that looks after homeschoolers HSLDA is run by constitutional lawyers and they know very well what their movement needs more of. These kids don’t care if they’re serving hot fries at Mickey D’s, they’re out to run your country for you instead and give it twenty years and they will.
G
April 24th, 2010
5:16 am
I have two points to make on the subject. 1. Freedom 2. Teaching vs Learning.
1. Freedom
Unschooling, whether you like it or not, is a valid, legal option. Although our family doesn’t practice unschooling, I shiver to think that some would want to ‘outlaw’ it. The greatest freedom our country provides to its citizens is freedom. Please don’t tell us which books we can (or must) read, what religion (if any) we must practice, and how we educate our children.
2. Teaching vs Learning
Teaching vs leaning. Institutional education is all about teaching. For some, its boring and uninspired at best. At worst, it spoils a child’s natural curiosity and destroys the love of learning and natural creativity. Perhaps unschoolers take their kids ‘lives’ back, putting deeper meaning into what education really is– learning. After all, real life isn’t broken up into one hour chunks of reading, writing, and arithmetic — its all there all the time. If parents are truly engaged, curious unschoolers WILL naturally seek out and learn — more deeply and more meaningfully than their public-schooled peers. I’m not a TV fan, so if we unschooled, we’d just get rid of the TV!
mommyof4
April 24th, 2010
7:07 am
@ Momx3…Is knowing the constitutional law a bad thing? Just wondering if you feel as negatively about it as it appears. Thank you.
homeschool believer
April 24th, 2010
11:35 am
I agree that Chang did a HORRIBLE job at interviewing this family. I too homeschool my children (5, 6 1/2 & 9yrs). I made this choice when my oldest son was 4 yrs because he was so eager to learn & I wanted to give him not only the education he needed, but the love that no preschool teacher could have given him. My daughter (who was 2 at the time), learned her ABC’s (phonetically) & 123’s right along with him. She was reading by 3 yrs old.
Due to some difficulties I was facing with my son’s reading & writing at 7yrs old, we decided to put him & my daughter in a private school. The only positive thing that came out of the whole experience was their diagnosis that my son had dyslexia. His “social” skills learned?…that he wasn’t as bright & wasn’t as good of a reader as everyone else. “The kids laughed at me today mom because I couldn’t pronounce some words I was reading aloud.” It was basically entertainment for my daughter who was bored out of her mind. I do not think my daughter is a genius, but the teacher was not able to meet her “needs” educationally. The only thing she came out of there with was scripture memorization….fantastic, but not worth $1000/month.
So I brought my children back home & have the resources to work with his dyslexia (which is doing wonders). I am able to challenge my daughter in the areas she needs…something the school was not able to offer. We belong to a public charter who is able to give us these resources, while supporting us whether we homeschool or unschool.
I have HAPPY thriving children who are appreciative about the fact they get to sleep till 8am & be done with school by noon….all in their pj’s. We have traveled across the country while visiting National Parks, major land marks & most importantly, experiencing it together as a family while doing “school”.
I am very thankful for the opportunity to homeschool my kids & instill biblical moral values while educating them. I am able to control what they learn, while they choose what interests them. Of course video games & TV would be their 1st choice, but those are considered rewards when they have fulfilled my educational goal for them.
Sadly, there are people out there who do not see homeschooling as a privilege, but a hindrance to societies expectations.
labradorworld
April 24th, 2010
12:46 pm
I happen to have followed this hands off approach and have had the privilege of knowing a few families who have also avoided the need to control every waking moment of their childrens lives. In every single case the children are much further ahead in terms of the ubiquitous testings imposed upon young people. How much further ahead you ask? In both English and Math they test at a level 4 and 5 years ahead of their peers who have been subjected to the public school system for most of their lives. And regarding sociability? They are able to carry on intelligent conversations with anyone including adults and look them in the eye to boot! Perhaps there is something to say for allowing young people to follow where their minds take them. In my experience, no one can learn what they are not ready to learn or have no interest to learn. One must have the confidence that the interest and time will come and the curiosity will be the guide.
Kristen Wells
April 24th, 2010
2:15 pm
Has any mentioned the presumably “normally educated” reporter asking about X+Y=Z. It was the perfect opportunity for the parents to comment on something irrelevant to daily living. So irrevelant in fact that the reporter forgot it was Xsquared +Ysquared = Zsquared when dealing with a right angle triangle and Z is the hypoteneuse. What? None of you remembered that little bit of high school math? My, what a horrid education you all must have had? Or perhaps you learned a lot of things which you promptly forgot as being useless. Now teach your kids this same concept but do it with woodworking/carpentry and I bet they remember it when they are grumpy adults complaining about “today’s youth.” Our education system is nothing to hold up as a Gold Standard which all kids should be exposed to, let’s start finding ways to improve it. Unschooling may not be the answer but it might be a step on the road to a good educational system.
Maeve
April 24th, 2010
2:31 pm
I think we all need to consider that this is a family that approached unschooling radically. Therefore, they are not the norm. I am a unschooled student and I feel that this article does not express unschooling in a good light, it takes a family with children that have used this opportunity and have thrown it away rather than exploring a wider ray of subjects that have been given to them.
I frequently encounter looks of confusion and apprehension when I tell people I am unschooled, but as I explain to them and I will explain in my post, the philosophy of unschooling is beautiful, not radical.
Unschooling is the belief that human beings are natural curious creature and from birth we begin to seek out answers to the world around us. We a curious and intelligent creatures willing and ready to learn and most of experience the excitement of school the first few days we are in a new class, new grade, new anything. We all love the idea of learning but unfortunately the way we are taught is flawed in a traditional setting, such as public school. Education is forced down our throats, we are reprimanded for what we do not understand and some of us are left behind, confused and scared to even say that we do not understand the subject matter. That, understandably, happen in a public or private institution for it would be impossible for a Teacher to cater to each students needs, there just isn’t enough time in the day.
However, in homeschooling and in unschooling we are in an environment that focuses solely upon us as a person, not as a class. We are given the time and the care we need to comprehend and sometimes move away from subjects we understand to a degree to progress even further. This is why many homeschooled students are further along in their studies than those in traditional school.
The way that unschooling differs from homeschooling is that it is not traditional school replicated in the home but a new way to approach education. Unschooling is just as effective but instead of forcing subjects down the students throat, every student is given the freedom to explore their interests, no matter how fleeting they may be, to find their passion and from that passion and constant support of their parents they get a far more well-rounded education.
I can easily say that I feel ready to go into college and have taken the SAT scoring higher than the national average, as well as a few college courses that I have received nothing but high marks in. So, as radical as the idea of unschooling may seem to you, it’s a beautiful experience to me. I am so very grateful that my parents gave me the opportunity. This is my last week of unschooling, I will be a High School Senior on June 12th, with a High School Diploma and everything.
So before you decide that unschooling is wrong, that unschooling should be illegal, think back to your education; Did you ever come away from it grateful to your parents for allowing you the opportunity?
Momx3
April 24th, 2010
7:59 pm
@ Momof4
No, I don’t think constitutional law or any advanced subjects taught to homeschoolers is bad. I was merely trying to point out that many homeschoolers, as opposed to being the burger flippers and sanitation experts of tomorrow, will actually grow up to be prime policy makers in the future.
catlady
April 24th, 2010
10:24 pm
Maeve: Obviously no one “forced” English grammar and punctuation “down your throat.” Better do a year of extra “unstudy.”
JATL
April 24th, 2010
10:46 pm
@LOL catlady! Maeve, honey, I hope you’re going to brush up on your writing skills before turning in your first college essay. Perhaps a traditional approach to proper writing skills would help you. You may also want to rethink where you are in life. You said you would be a “High School Senior” (none of which needs capitalizing by the way) but you would have a “High School Diploma” (again with the unnecessary capitalization). So, are you a junior or a senior? Do you know?
And yes, I am overwhelmingly grateful for the education my parents gave me. They paid for 10 years of private school that also involved them shuttling me back and forth (a 40 mile round trip), because the public school in our area was horrible. Then they spent a fortune on my college education, allowing me to be one of the lucky ones who got to go to college on a free ride from mom and dad. So yeah, grateful doesn’t even begin to describe the way I feel about the opportunities my parents gave me.
Kristen Wells
April 24th, 2010
11:38 pm
God! Catlady and JATL, you ladies are such Beyotches. This is a comment board, not a college essay. You should be ashamed of yourselves for using such petty arguements to make your case against unschooling. Even if you never learned the socratic method of arguing in your private/public/home schools, I would expect better than merely berating a child’s post that is defending her education.
JATL
April 25th, 2010
12:03 am
Hey Kristen-evidently the “child” is around 18 years old and feels that she learned everything she needs to know as an “unschooled” kid, and it’s quite evident by reading her post that’s not the case. You throw it out there and you should expect to get called on it! I completely agree that this is a comment board, but she’s the one who said she had received a wonderful education and then made one grammar, punctuation and wording error after another. Our point is that her “education” doesn’t seem to be so great if that “essay” is the best she can do to defend it. My second point was merely answering the question she posed.
Kristen Wells
April 25th, 2010
12:15 am
JATL- Why don’t you reread her post and put quotes around the part where “she feels she has learned everything she needs to know”. Also, in terms of her grammar,etc, is the coverse true? If you can write without any errors then have you received a wonderful education? Perhaps your definitions differ from hers. Just try to keep civil. And if you are so well educated, demostrate it by putting forth valid arguements not personal attacks and anecdotes.
JATL
April 25th, 2010
12:40 am
Wow Kristen, are you Maeve’s BFF? I haven’t personally attacked her at any point. I also wasn’t aware that, suddenly, Maeve and I were in a formal debate with you as the moderator. However, being able to express oneself well in written English (if that is your native language) is one of the hallmarks of a decent education. If Maeve turned in an essay or any type of writing assignment in a college class with the errors she made here, she would fail. Granted, many of our public high school graduates cannot write a decent essay of any type, and they also fail once they arrive in college.
As for anecdotes, if you’re referring to my information regarding my personal education, that’s not really an anecdote. Although it is biographical in nature, it’s not a particularly amusing account of an incident in my life. As I’ve already said, it was a response to the question young Maeve asked at the end of her post.
JATL
April 25th, 2010
12:56 am
Oh,and Kristen -you want me to keep it civil after you called me a “Beyotch”? Grow up.
Kristen Wells
April 25th, 2010
10:15 am
Wow JATL. Do some research and then decide if what you gave was an anecdote. Try Merriam Webster for a start. Or, in medicine, if something is anecdotal evidence, do you suppose it’s amusing?
To get back to the discussion topic: If you admit that there are many public school grads whose education has failed them, why is what these parents doing so much worse? We can site horror story after horror story in our government run schools so I don’t think we ought to throw stones at other systems. These parents, while I think they are misguided, seem to be doing what they think is best for their children. I disagree with what the vast majority of the population does with their children but since we live in America they have the right to do it. I think calling it child abuse is wrong. While the “mainstream” idea of success includes a college education and a well paying job, that isn’t everyone’s idea of success. I would say that the man with a $40K/yr job is more successful than the man with a $400K/yr if he truly loves his job and the more well paid man does his merely for the money. Perhaps that is what these parents are teaching their children. GMA did such a crappy job interviewing them that we will never know. I would like to hear others’ views on the way media seems to be trying to manipulate our opinions on basic parenting issues like education. This segment was obviously done in order to get the intended backlash from the public. They did not do this in order to educate us on another way that education is being done or they would have portrayed it more fairly than only showing these radical parents. They have now associated unschooling with parents who don’t even make children wash their hands or brush their teeth. I’m not convinced that the 2 are related in reality.
Colin
April 25th, 2010
10:54 am
State and local governments, the teacher’s unions, etc. have a vested interest in making all homeschoolers look like irresponsible radicals. This “news” story suggests that if we don’t stop homeschooling now, all kids will end up directionless hippies.
HB
April 25th, 2010
11:32 am
I’m sorry, catlady and JATL, but that really was just obnoxious. You post here thoughtfully often, so I know you’re both better than that. You don’t like unschooling — fine. But this student wrote a thoughtful, and fairly elegant, argument for the education she has received. Most people’s posts have mistakes from time to time (including yours and mine), but I think it’s fair to say that hers, even with the small mistakes you so eagerly pointed out, is better than what the vast majority of public high school seniors could write. So please keep the discussion level high and don’t resort to condemning her entire education on the basis of a few small mistakes in a difficult to proof, casual setting.
As for me, I am grateful for the wonderful formal education I received in Georgia public schools and then private universities even while recognizing it has not made me error-proof. :)
nikki
April 25th, 2010
4:24 pm
I am horrified at how MEAN these comments sound! Why must you pick apart what you don’t understand or what is different from the path you choose? First off, I have a strange feeling Good Morning America edited it a bit (for ratings) to make it seem worse than it was. Secondly, lots of jobs don’t require formal education. How about a farmer? A florist? A yoga instructor? An artist? An exotic animal breeder? There are jobs in our society which these kids would not be prepared for, but neither would half of the kids in public school who bring home homework which nobody bothers to help them with and go on to cheat their way through high school and never go to college. Are THOSE families abusive? Many countries don’t have a formal education for their kids, some only offer it to boys. America and Europe and China put an emphasis on formal education, but who are you to say that’s right? Who gives you the right?
I’m upset that this family allowed themselves to be portrayed in such a way and that GMA made it seem as though unschooling is a free for all with kids sleeping all day and playing video games all night. No, we are not unschoolers, but we ARE homeschoolers and I know lots of fully functional unschooling families. Oh, and FYI this is NOT such a new movement in our society. In the 60’s, when peace-loving Americans known as hipppies moved to communes to have their kids and raise their families, where do you think these kids were schooled? It was a form of unschooling. You want to be a farmer? Go grow some plants. You want to make tie–dyed t-shirts? Grab some dye and figure it out.
nikki
April 25th, 2010
4:39 pm
Also, JATL and Catlady, I will bet MONEY you both spent a few minutes re-reading your entries before submitting bc you wanted to make sure you didn’t have any misspells or grammer problems. You probably even hit spell-check. You sound like horrible old ladies trying to pick apart what you don’t understand. How horrible you must feel daily to look at yourselves in the mirror. This young girl was nice throughout her whole comment (which is a COMMENT BOARD btw NOT a college essay which I’m sure she would have spent more than 4 minutes writing). It’s mean people like you and your mean little kids that make lots of families NOT want to send their sweet children to public school. Yeah, I really want my sweet child to be picked on by bratty 6th grade losers who will be knocked up at 16 or committing suicide from the pressure at home.
nikki
April 25th, 2010
4:43 pm
Oh, and did anyone else bother to go back BEFORE Maeve’s comment and read the wonderful punctuation in JATL’s entries (I believe a few days prior)? Way to go TEACHER! Let me guess: public school teacher for 10+ years?
JATL
April 25th, 2010
5:14 pm
Nikki, dumb Nikki -that was one of my points -this is a BLOG, but if you’re going to turn in an essay and have it be about how fabulously educated you are by being “unschooled,” then you really need to make sure it’s properly written. So glad you spent your Sunday afternoon checking up on my prior posts though. I spent mine out in the sunshine with my precious, sweet and adorable children! And you don’t know me, my age, my current profession, or ANYTHING about my children and by implying something about my children, you’ve gone as low as a person really can on a blog. Sounds like you’re a homeschooler who isn’t quite confident in her ability to really get the job done.
Maeve
April 25th, 2010
5:47 pm
First, I want to thank everyone who looked pass my grammatical errors and punctuation mishaps to see the message I was trying to get across.
JATL and Catlady, I am sorry that my errors lead you away from the point I was trying to get across. I did not proofread my post (not essay, but post) and obviously it bothered you. Next time I will proofread and run spell check.
I will answer some of the things my errors might have made unclear. I am a high school senior, eighteen, and I am soon to graduate from an accredited unschooling program. Also, I have taken college level courses at the local community college and have not received anything lower than A as my final grade.
So, I think I am ready to go out in the world. I think I am ready for college in the fall. It is obvious that neither of you do, but that doesn’t really matter. What it comes down to is I will be going to college in the Fall and I will keep my high GPA, because I work hard as a student to do so. Your petty remarks and your picking at my post will not make it less so, it will not deter me. I am confident as a student and as a person. If you find my way to be dissatisfactory, well, don’t unschool your children. But I do hope that you also teach them to be civil and polite because that is a real show of character and of intelligence.
John Wycliffe
April 25th, 2010
6:10 pm
We have unschooled our children for more than a decade. Unschooling is a great approach which rather than using a fixed curriculum allows the flexibility of following the child’s interests. If the child is obsessed with dinosaurs, you ride that interest, getting books and videos on dinosaurs, making trips to museums and meetings with archaeologists, and so forth.
Lately the term unschooling has been taken over by the philosophy of radical unschoolers. Radical unschoolers believe that it is oppressive for the parent to teach the child at all. Even if the child requests to be taught something, the parent takes a hands off approach and hopes the child will “discover” how to do division, how to read and so forth. They also are opposed to “coercing” the children to brush their teeth and it is not uncommon for their children to have rotten teeth from drinking soda all day while other radical unschooler friends support the parents decision to forgo dental hygiene and claim the cavities are due to a genetic condition that they are helpless to fix.
Crystal
April 25th, 2010
6:32 pm
I’d like to see a follow-up story showing what happens to these kids in a number of years – when they have their own bills and have to support themselves. Additionally, I understand this isn’t a new idea… there are unschooled individuals raising families, etc. I’d like to hear from these individuals.
catlady
April 25th, 2010
9:26 pm
Best wishes, Maeve. Be sure when you “put yourself out there” you do it in the most polished way possible. In your private writings, anything goes! Remember you cannot make a good point about the efficacy of your education if you demonstrate that it did not provide you with the skills you need. (Sort of like the tea party folks who claim they don’t want the government to take over health care, yet they receive their health care through Medicare).
Hope you do well in the world. Meow!
Haha
April 26th, 2010
9:07 am
@Maeve, don’t worry about the pettines on this blog. You sound like a very bright young lady. The owner of the company that I work for has a college degree, reads books every day and still has some issues with spelling and writing. Not everyone is perfect in everything, so enjoy your time in college. If you let the pettiness of others upset you, you will be unhappy the rest of your life.
nikki
April 26th, 2010
12:59 pm
JATL, if you think it took my entire Sunday afternoon to read through a few posts (seriously, there are less than 100 comments on here), then YOU MUST READ VERY SLOWLY! It took me a few minutes to read through, then a few more to RE-read your posts prior to see how many mistakes I could find (a few). Just like it only took me about 5 minutes of my day to check this forum to see what you had posted, knowing you’d be interested enough in your boring life to keep check on this, which is strange since you have no vested interest in homeschooling or unschooling.
Oh, and before you ask, YES, I will probably check this again later tonight just to see what petty response you posted because I love to read ignorant people picking apart what they don’t understand.
You mentioned that I must not be confident in my ability to homeschool my child. If I told you I was 100% confident, I’d be lying. That being said, as a teacher, could you honestly tell me you are confident of your ability to teach every child every thing they need to know in their future? Can you tell me you are confident in the public school system to teach YOUR child everything they need to know? If you say yes, not only are you a spiteful person, but you are a LIAR. My child is very bright and already challenges me to teach her more every day. Of course I worry about giving her enough knowledge. More importantly, I worry about giving her BALANCE. Life isn’t all about learning 2+2. It isnt’ all xyz. It is a wonderful journey through places and time, full of wisdom, opinions and truth. It has many paths to choose, many forks in each path and many roadblocks. It isn’t just what you learn; it’s how you learn those things. When you think of ALL the things emcompassed in learning (not just scholastics), the possibilities are overwhelming.
That being said, let’s change your question. Let’s pose it “Do I think I can teach my child better than the public school system?” and see what the answer becomes. YES. Yes, I DO think I can teach MY child to respect others in life, to respect God and all of His creation, to think for herself, to look to the Bible for truth before she looks to science for opinion and to do so at her own pace all while learning the three “Rs” (which again is a tribute to our wonderful school systems since Writing and Arithmatic neither start with an R).
nikki
April 26th, 2010
1:01 pm
Oh, and Catlady, sorry I included you in my earlier discussion. Your last post to Maeve was very nice and polite. Yes, Maeve, we all wish you the best in your future just as I’m sure we all wish JATL’s kids. :)
ABCs123s
April 26th, 2010
4:26 pm
I believe that if you have no first hand experience, you probably shouldn’t judge an entire population from a 3 minute biased news story. Obviously they were attempting to rile up the masses, and GMA did a good job with that. Their journalism was sorely lacking, however. On the site the parents have had a chance to rebut the poorly edited piece. For example, their family rarely watches tv, but the reporter requested they film them doing so. Instead of talking about the sport of fencing that their son is heavily involved in, the reporter decided to make him seem like an oaf with no interest in any sports. The questions in the interview were leading and contrived. Answers to open ended questions were interrupted with additional leading questions. It was truly a horrible example of journalism. How could you possibly base your opinions of unschooling on this?
ABCs123s
April 26th, 2010
4:31 pm
BTW, I do unschool part of the year (and use curriculum the rest). I still have rules, discipline, and fix well balanced meals for the entire family. But we’ve been brainwashed into thinking that kids need formal lessons in order to learn. Yes, they need guidance, but they don’t need to be spoonfed all knowledge. Odds are good that schoolkids will forget the content of a test only a day later, even if they aced it. Why? Rote memorization is a poor method of learning, as is learning to perform on a test. When you have true interest in a subject, you want to learn everything there is about it. You are able to tell others in your own words all about it. Sometimes, it leads to a career choice. Yes, you can experience this pursuit of knowledge while also attending school, but I see school as the distraction. Our lives are far more peaceful, and a whole lot more interesting now. YMMV, but relaxed homeschooling and unschooling work for many of us. Don’t knock it till you try it.
TheMoreYouKnow
April 26th, 2010
8:31 pm
Radical unschooling has been around for a while. Much longer than more people think. Thus far, I have yet to hear of a radical unschooler working at McDonald’s or going to jail. Statistically, it must have happened at some point, but so far, haven’t heard of it. If someone finds an example of this actually occurring, the argument that radical unschooled children are more likely than public school kids to fail like this would have some weight. Until then, it’s a made up story.
There are a lot of weird radical unschoolers. Really weird ones, doing weird things. But there are also weird people coming out of public school, doing weird things. Oh well. So they are weird. Who cares? I thought public school was supposed to teach us to get along with all different kinds of people.
I’ve been on a news segment before, and they took over three hours of footage of our family. They used exactly 2.5 minutes of that footage, cut into bits and pieces. When they have an entire day’s worth of footage, anyone doing a show like this is at the mercy of the reporter and how they want to make you look. We are such suckers believing anything that the TV tells us is true when most of the time it’s fabricated specifically to get a rise of some kind out of us. Sure, this family does things differently, but the way they cut it was intentionally meant to discredit the family and their choices, all the way down to their “expert” comments. CNN did an interview with the same family a few days later, and it was much different presentation. Same family, same material, different story.
Unschooling, let alone radical unschooling, is impossible to wrap up in short segment on TV. But we expect everything to be wrapped in little packages for us in a way we can understand. That’s what we’re taught in school, too. So it’s not surprising that so many people see this show and immediately feel that they are an expert not only in this particular family’s errors, but in radical unschooling, and in unschooling, and in homeschooling! All from a short clip on TV!
Unschooling is not perfect, but it’s certainly not the demon so many people make it out to be.
FCM
April 27th, 2010
10:50 am
nikki–that is mighty big of you to be saying we “all” wish Maeve well. You have no right to speak for “all” of us. Now get the chip off shoulder and take a nap…your rant sounded like you need on
FCM
April 27th, 2010
10:54 am
Maeve I do wish you well. Education is important. I just don’t like when one person elects themselves to speak for the group.
Haha
April 27th, 2010
2:28 pm
Think it could be that everyone is tired of all the bickering over stupid crap that this blog is not getting as many responses as it has in the past?
Aubrey
April 27th, 2010
4:20 pm
It should be noted that the Good Morning America film crew was with that family for upwards of eight hours, and then created an edited one or two minute video, highlighting anything that would paint unschooling in a bad light. I think if any of you had the chance to meet this family (which I have), you would come to a completely different conclusion. The parents are not at all lazy or uninvolved. On the contrary, the parents spend quality time with their children, playing games and having discussions, etc. When I met this family (only the mother and two kids), the Mother sat with the kids and a few of their friends for over an hour, having intelligent conversation. The mother also always made a point of asking the teenagers their opinions and asking thought-provoking and insightful questions.
Of course people are going to have a couple of bad moments when a film crew, who is openly against your philosphy, comes into your home for an entire day! The edit was comprised of only these bad moments and highlighted only the points Good Morning America wanted to make. I think the parents demonstrated a great understanding of their educational and life philosophy of unschooling on the follow-up interveiw.
The unschooling philosphy is not “let your kids do whatever they want and hope it works out.” As I interpret it, you give your kids the freedom to choose, knowing that humans are a naturally curious species with the ability to reason. Once children realize they have the freedom to do what they want, it’s natural, I think, for them to watch television, play games, and eat snacky foods. But once they’ve done that for awhile, they will realize the natural, internal consequences and have a better understanding of why watching tv for 24 hours or eating an entire bowl of candy probably isn’t the best idea. Instead of the parent saying, “Don’t eat the candy because it will make your stomache hurt.” or “Because I said so,” the child learns on their own that they will most definitely feel ill after eating an inordinate amount of candy, and they probably won’t do it again. If they do choose to do it again, they’ll learn the lesson a second time, and on until the lesson hits home, and they understand. Giving them this freedom isn’t laziness or neglect, and it doesn’t (in most cases) generate a lack of ambition or an inability to make decisions for the child. Instead, the child is capable of making logical decisions based upon an internal sense of consequence. Many unschoolers, and all of the young adult unschoolers I’ve met, are logical, intelligent, ambitious, talented, and have the ability to be indepedent. Having the option to chose for yourself from the beginning, one quickly (or not so quickly in some cases) learns how to reason things out, analyze situations, and apply critical thought. When unschoolers become adults, go to college (or not), and get jobs, they aren’t overwhelmed by the no-parents, no-rules freedom many formally educated young adults feel when they move out and set off into the *real* world.
That is by no means a full description of the unschooling philosophy, but I think it addressed the points most commonly brought up. If anybody disagrees with something I’ve said, wants to know more, or thinks I’m an idiot, I welcome feedback/constructive criticism and discussion, but I am not here to argue. I say this because in leau of all the recent media coverage on unschooling, I’ve taken to these discussion boards in an attempt to provide at least a little bit of honest information on the topic, and some people are being downright hostile. I’m not trying to attack anyone’s personal educational or parenting philosophy, please do not make unwarrented attacks upon mine. :)
Unoptimistic
April 27th, 2010
6:11 pm
Jan, I have little faith for kids who’s parents are either doormats or just as bad as their bratty kids. That said, this is a step back. A terrible step back. Yes, some kids are active learners but kids do not know how to know what they should know to succeed in the world. You put me against a similar person who was unschooled and I will tromp them academically and socially simply because I was exposed to more opportunities to learn because of school. But as the system stands right now, this alternative will not produce optimal results. Discussion should probably center around how to incorporate the benefits of unschooling into the school system.
Betty
May 4th, 2010
9:12 pm
Are you kidding me? You can’t tell me the first video was not heavily edited. I just love all of the self-righteous, indignant people on here who are saying things like “Those parents are comitting child abuse!” and “Unschooling and homeschooling are the lazy person’s way out!” and on and on and on. Meanwhile, your biggest cities have graduation rates at 50% and below. Your public schools are graduating kids that are barely literate, if at all. Public schools are notorious for violence by students – to the point of having to have “resource officers” on hand – and teachers who take advantage of their young, impressionable minds. Have you been in a public school classroom lately? Yeah…thought not. You have self-absorbed parents sticking their kids in day care at six weeks old, then preschool, then kindergarten, then school and after school programs, and then scramble in the summer time to sign them up for whatever “day camp” they can find, while mommy and daddy chase the American dream. These people never play a game of Yahtzee or Monopoly with their kids. They have no idea what their children like or dislike, because they leave it all up to someone else – or worse – to the State. Then you spout off nonsense about a subject you know absolutely nothing about based on some heavily-edited video from a highly-biased show that only wants to push their ratings higher by taking the most sensationalistic view of the subject at hand. There are so few children whose parents are able to take such an interest in their education that they’ll make the fewest possible number of people mad at them, while boosting the egos of those who choose to outsource their parenting. Never mind that their children will become drones who waste their lives getting their world view from clowns such as George Snuffleuppegus and Juju Chang, Oprah Winfrey, or Dr. Phil. Pathetic.
You can be sure little “Harper” and “Elliot” don’t attend public school.
ILuvTeaParties
May 4th, 2010
9:23 pm
catlady said: (Sort of like the tea party folks who claim they don’t want the government to take over health care, yet they receive their health care through Medicare).
Off the subject, but it’s worth mentioning that these people have paid into Medicare all their lives – whether they liked it or not – with the good faith promise from the government that their medical expenses would be taken care of when they reached a certain age. That is different than Obamacare, which will take drastic cuts from Medicare (500 billion, I believe) – taking from people who have actually been paying into the system – as well as make healthy young people buy a product/service they may not want or need. Obamacare does nothing to cut the actual cost of providing medical care, but does cut reimbursement. The
ILuvTeaParties
May 4th, 2010
9:28 pm
(Continued) poor already have access to medical care through their state’s Medicaid programs. So, who needs medical insurance? The “working poor” – people with families who are earning too much for Medicaid, but find the price of insurance at 12K+ per year to be too much. The CBO has recently come out with a report that says Obamacare could DRIVE UP insurance rates for single people as much as 17%…not lower the cost.
Hopefully, Obama will be a lame duck in November, and a one term President in 2012, and Obamacare will go the way of Hillary Care…
Diane
May 8th, 2010
12:48 am
Enter your comments here
Diane
May 8th, 2010
12:50 am
Unschooling is not new! Do some research before publishing. The phrase was coined at least twenty five years ago.
Corrine
May 14th, 2010
12:39 pm
This is not that radical or out of the norm for the unschoolers I have encountered. I have a child who is now a junior in college, and while homeschooling our son, many of his peers were unschooled in this same fashion. Where are they now? Two are at a state school, eight are home with their parents continuing their unschooling experiment, although at some point I think it is safe to say they have transitioned to unemployment. What a sad waste of potential.
soni
May 15th, 2010
10:58 am
Unschooling is not new. There are tons of unschooled adults. Unschooled can even mean kids do go to school, but it would be the child’s choice to go, not the parents. Many unschooled kids don’t watch TV and play video games as their parents don’t, and most kids can’t afford to buy TV’s or the such. Want to see an unschooled adult talk about her experience? Astra Taylor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwIyy1Fi-4Q if the skip the first ten or so minutes it gets more interesting. A friend of mine’s son just won a physics award at Harvard. He was unschooled as well. Unschooling doesn’t subscribe to the idea that “one size fits all” as our education system does, so it is hard for many to really understand.
soni
May 15th, 2010
11:03 am
Oh yeah, I will add that I am a “College Skills” teacher at the junior college. There are soooooo many of us on staff. You know why? Public schools don’t prepare kids for college. So many kids have very little conceptual and critical thinking skills who come through the public school system, I really don’t see how sending one’s child to public school should make one feel so much superior to someone who keeps their kids home. The unschoolers who sit home all day and watch TV are really just the fringe of unschoolers.
Jordan
June 24th, 2010
3:33 am
I am having a hard time understanding why anyone would call parents who unschool “lazy”. These parents have to be constantly playing an active role in aiding their children in learning and fostering each child’s desires and interests. This seems to be a far more involved, and much less lazy style of parenting than resigning your role as parent, teacher, and nurturer to a formal school system which takes the children off of the parent’s hands for a majority of the child’s waking hours.
rick.
August 16th, 2010
8:59 am
Enter your comments here
rick.
August 16th, 2010
9:03 am
You really put your faith in GMA as a news source? Are you serious?
You certainly have some gall to criticize the educational avenues that others choose, as you can barely construct a complete sentence.