Do you try for one more just to get a girl (or boy)?
One of our community members sent me a note this week. She’s in a quandary and wanted to get some opinions. She’s pregnant with her second child and is already thinking about a third. Here’s why in her own words:
“ I’m expecting my second child in May. Another boy.
My husband and I always said we would just have 2 children and be happy that they are healthy.
BUT, I’m finding myself overwhelmed with a desire to have a girl. Not that I’m delusional and think that having another child will get me a female, but I’m surprised at how much I want to try.
I’m also feeling pretty guilty about it and trying to be excited about my two boys. I’ve heard 3-4 is so much harder than 2.
Should we stop because we agreed on two in the beginning? We can afford it and my husband would probably do it if I said I wanted to try again.
Is it worth it? Why do I feel like our family is not complete until we get that girl?
I’ll admit how selfish this sounds and I’m sure some of your bloggers will blast me for it.
I’m hoping that the rest might give me some perspective. I’m thrilled to have two healthy children, I just wonder if we should try again.”
I’m fascinated by this question because it’s not about feeling done and wanting a larger family. It’s about wanting a certain sex that you haven’t had yet. You see families all the time with four or five boys and then finally a little girl.
I definitely did not feel done after my second but I also had a boy and girl. So my feeling was more about wanting more kids not a certain sex.
What have you guys experienced? Would you have more kids just to get the sex of a child you desire? Did you have any issues with the other kids knowing you were trying for the opposite sex? Is it just as valid to want a boy or a girl as it is to want more kids in general? What is your advice for this mom? Is it worth going for a third to get a baby girl? Do you think her pregnancy hormones are playing with her head or will she feel the same after she gives birth to her second?
I posted last night a blog linking to a Q&A on crib safety. If you have questions about the massive crib recall please check out the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission’s Q&A about crib safety. They have photos to help explain the problems with the cribs and the new requirements for cribs.
P.S. My little guy has a high fever so I’ll be in and out on the conversation today while I take care of him.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
130 comments Add your comment
motherjanegoose
February 19th, 2010
11:17 am
@momsrule….did you read my comment about B of A on yesterday’s post?
I'm the Mom...
February 19th, 2010
11:18 am
Thank you for your kind comments.
I talked to my husband about my feelings last night. He made so many of the points that were brought up here today (How will I feel if it is another boy? What if our girl doesn’t want to sell Girl Scout cookies or play dress-up?) We are going to wait 2 years and then decide. I can do that.
For the record, I am very excited about this new child and my first son is Incredibly Fun and a joy every day. My new child has a lovely nursery and a special name after my Grandfather and Grandmother’s maiden name.
It really hit me like a ton of bricks about the loss of a Mother/Daughter relationship that many of you brought up. I’ve been very surprised at my feelings because I always said just two children and done!
Those that think I am selfish and not listening… I get that. I feel selfish and guilty. That is part of the reason I contacted Theresa. Sometimes you just need to hear/read things to get some perspective.
Thanks again!
Wayne
February 19th, 2010
11:26 am
I have to share this article… It’s a bit rough, but interesting in light of some of the conversations on this blog. Keep in mind that a male friend of mine – who does not have kids – sent it to a bunch of us.
Well, now that I see the URL, perhaps I might not send it… Hmmm…
Theresa, am I able to send something to you to check out first?
MomsRule
February 19th, 2010
11:45 am
@MJG, yes I did. Thanks. Your reason for staying with them makes sense. I was going to suggest Suntrust to you as I receive absolutely fabulous customer service with both my personal and business accounts. And I love how they treat my boys when they “handle” their own banking.
Unfortunately, they do not have the coverage you need.
Tiger needs me on his PR team
February 19th, 2010
11:52 am
@Momma…I’ve got a couple questions for you, since you’re so into telling people to not attack your “facts”.
1. What evidence do you have to support your position that a third boy is “quite often” gay? Is there a clinical study that supports your “fact”? Can you cite it? Can it hold up to scientific scrutiny? Basically, what evidence do you have to verify that your statement is indeed a fact? You’ve presented none, but defend it as if it is a fact.
2. What is the definition of “quite often”? Is this in comparison just the homosexual birth rate or the total birth rate, which would skew things considerably (i.e. are you starting with all homosexuals and asking “which of you are the third of three boys” or are you taking the entire population of the third of three boys and asking “which of you are homosexuals”? If it is in comparison to just the homosexual population, is your “quite often” estimation based upon the 2000 Census Bureau stat that 1.5% of Americans identify themselves a homosexuals, or the 1948 Alfred Kinsey study that estimates the number at 10%, or the 1993 Janus study that shows the number closer to 5%, or the Family Research Council report that places the number at 2.5%.
Can you answer ANY of these questions to vailidate your claim as a fact? Because right now, all you’ve said is that you have stated a fact, but your argument supporting it (or lack thereof) makes it sound a lot more like an opinion.
Wayne
February 19th, 2010
11:54 am
[mumbling under breath] “self, don’t ever get into a debate with Tiger”
motherjanegoose
February 19th, 2010
11:57 am
@ Wayne…I knew tiger would be up to the challenge when mountain time caught allowed him to be here…LOL.
MomsRule
February 19th, 2010
12:04 pm
Tooo funny! I was also wondering how Tiger would address @Momma.
motherjanegoose
February 19th, 2010
12:12 pm
I goofed up, I started to say when mountain time caught up with eastern but that really NEVER happens does it….:)
Tiger needs me on his PR team
February 19th, 2010
12:16 pm
@5!!…my link to that study didn’t work. Can you convey what “more likely” means per the study? That’s not what Momma said…she said “quite often” and “good chance”.
For example, according to the Pennsylvania Lottery Commission (which is obligated to give correct statistics to the public), the odds of hitting the Powerball Jackpot with one purchased ticket is 1 in 146,107,962 million. Now if I buy two tickets, my odds go down to 1 in 73,053,981. Its goes without saying that I am “more likely” to hit the Jackpot with two tickets than one. However, I’m pretty freaking far from having a “good chance” of hitting the jackpot “quite often”.
Saying “More likely” is a fact….saying “good chance” and “quite often” are subjective opinions.
So for Momma to say, “it’s a fact” that this woman has a good chance that her son will be gay and that those circumstances quite often result in a gay child, and then REFUSING to support her claim is just bad debating and should summarily dismissed as hogwash until she can say something that actually provides evidence to support her.
@Wayne……I’m going to find the compliment in there!
Doug
February 19th, 2010
12:18 pm
Tiger’s blowing his typical smoke. He loves to see his words in print.
Tiger needs me on his PR team
February 19th, 2010
12:18 pm
I’ve got to move to the East so I can strike while the iron is HOT!!!!!
;-)
Tiger needs me on his PR team
February 19th, 2010
12:20 pm
@Doug…..and you taking a shot at my motivations does nothing to feed your ego?
DB
February 19th, 2010
12:32 pm
Here you go, Tiger: http://www.pnas.org/content/103/28/10771.full.pdf
There is a SLIGHT effect of birth order — some theories are that something in gestating moms affects subsequent boys, others are divided on the biological vs. socialization issues.
But as you say — multiplying a very small chance by two still results in a very small chance. While it may be statistically significant in a small sample, when it is translated to the general population, it’s pretty much a drop in the bucket. Certainly not significant enough on which to base a decision for future children!
And if you want to go really crazy, how about the indications in this report that gay men are born more often to younger mothers than to older mothers? Haha . . .
And, honestly — so what if they’re gay?
Momma
February 19th, 2010
12:35 pm
I’m at work and my computer is blocked to many internet sites, including those needed to show you the studies. With simple googling (study “third male child” gay) you can find the studies. What I can pull up so far is:
The Making of John Barrowman:
But there is another strange bit of research that Lippa has been involved in, that suggests that gay men tend to be younger sons with at least two older brothers. This has to do with there being less testosterone with each successive pregnancy.
From the queerattitude.com website:
Boys are also, for some reason, are more likely to be gay if they have more older biological brothers.
1. Homosexuality: Why Don’t People Understand Sexual Orientation …
15 posts – 8 authors – Last post: Aug 7, 2008
There are any number of reasons why a third male child is more likely to be gay than a first, but none of them have anything to do with …
forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=3046016 – Cached
That last one was totally blocked, but should have good answers for you.
You’re trying to get off the topic by arguing “good chance”, “more likely”, whatever. The point is (which you seldom stick to), a 3rd male child is more likely to be gay than the 1st or 2nd male child.
Tiger’s more interested in arguing that learning.
HB
February 19th, 2010
12:42 pm
Tiger, your lotto explanation fits here. The study doesn’t say there’s a good chance the 3rd child will be gay, just that the chances of being gay increase with the number of older brothers. “Each older brother increases the probability of being homosexual by a third, though as the starting probability is small – most men with lots of elder brothers are still heterosexual.”
Here are what the article says scientists think are possible reasons for the increased probability:
“The mechanism by which having older biological brothers affects male sexuality remains unknown, but the most popular theory among scientists is that it reflects the way a mother’s immune system reacts to carrying male foetuses.
As males have a Y chromosome and females do not, a mother’s body may be more likely to recognise a male foetus than a female one as foreign, and to generate a strong immune response.
Other research has shown that this response can strengthen with each subsequent male pregnancy. This may affect the way the brain develops sexually. Sisters have no impact, and there is no effect on girls, as female foetuses do not provoke the same reaction.
“If this immune theory were correct, then the link between the mother’s immune reaction and the child’s future sexual orientation would probably be some effect of maternal anti-male antibodies on the sexual differentiation of the brain,” Dr Bogaert said.
It is also possible that successive male pregnancies changes the way that foetuses are exposed to the male hormone testosterone in the womb. This, however, would also be expected to influence female sexuality, on which having older brothers appears to have no effect.”
Lawrencevillemom
February 19th, 2010
12:47 pm
When my husband and I got married we said we wanted 2 kids and wanted them “on the ground and running by the time we were 30″. I had our first child, a son, when I was 21 and still in college (but he was definitely planned). I got pregnant, again planned, when he was 9 months old and our family was set to be complete….but it was not to be, our son passed away in his sleep when he was 17 months old and I was 7 1/2 months pregnant with #2 – who turned out to be a girl. After the grieving process had eased we decided that we didn’t want to raise our daughter as an only child so pregnancy #3 was planned – we decided to find out the sex …. not because we wanted one sex or the other but because if it was going to be a boy then we felt we needed to mentally prepare ourselves. We have been asked so many times … “are you going to have another to try for a boy?” Nope, we had our boy. Ours are now two beautiful girls – ages 16 & 19 and we are 41. Be happy with the healthy children you have and love them every day.
Tiger needs me on his PR team
February 19th, 2010
12:52 pm
@Momma…I am actually interested in learning….and had supported your position and given us something to learn from (like DB did…thanks much DB) I wouldn’t have jumped on you. My apologies if I don’t just take as fact every post that is submitted here. I doubt you do either.
I won’t however apologize for arguing with you the words you use (ie. “good probability” vs”more likely”). Words MEAN something….and they should mean something because subtle changes in words have drastic results in their meaning. You’re obviously smart and well read, you should realize that.
If they don’t mean anything, then I suggest you take about $10,000 and go buy 10,000 Powerball quickpicks…because you’ve got a “good probability” at hitting the Jackpot (like one in 14,611). I mean, comparatively speaking from buying one that’s a SURE THING, unless you take the position that the meanings of the terms “more likely” and “good probability” suddenly aren’t splitting hairs.
Tiger needs me on his PR team
February 19th, 2010
12:55 pm
@HB and DB…thank you for the explanations…because I have to be honest, that study read like freaking stereo instructions to me!
HB
February 19th, 2010
12:58 pm
You’re welcome, Tiger. I use to be an A/V tech, so I can help you with your stereo too. ;)
First time Mom
February 19th, 2010
12:59 pm
My husband & I are expecting our first child in April. We both agreed we “had to know” & it’s a girl. We’ve been together 8 years and all along we thought we wanted boys & especially wanted the first one to be a boy – it’s what we both know (I have a great big brother & my husband is the oldest of 3). From the day I found out I was pregnant, I had a feeling the baby was a girl & couldn’t be happier. My husband is over the moon about a little girl, but I do know he is holding out hope that a future baby will be a boy.
I think you are more likely today to hear expecting parents talk about gender dissapointment, but I would NEVER think they would talk about that in front of their other children. That is just thoughtless. I know a few friends who bawled for a few days when they found out baby #2 was not what they were hoping for – but all got over it.
Mel
February 19th, 2010
12:59 pm
As the mother of 3 young boys I was in the same boat! We had 2 miracle boys (u/s tech said #2 was a girl – not so much!), and then decided we wanted a 3rd. I didn’t want to know the sex, even though I craved a girl, because everyone ELSE put so much pressure on us for ‘is it a girl’, ‘are you hoping for a girl’, ‘what if it’s another boy’….UGH! I totally expected a girl since the pregnancy was totally opposite my first 2 and then was devastated when I found out it was a boy – I didn’t think I really cared and then was scared when I realized I DID and worried I wouldn’t love him. Now, my boys are 12, 8, and 7 and my 7 year old is the love of my life. From the moment he arrived he has been nothing but pure joy (unlike the awful pubescent 12-year old!!), and fills my heart with more love than ever imagined. I’m now 40 and facing remarriage to a younger, childless man, and the question about more kids comes up often. I am totally willing to have more children and at this point, any healthy child God wants to bless me with is welcome – boy or girl. I’d be thrilled with a daughter, but just as happy with a house full of messy, stinky, perfect boys!
Tiger needs me on his PR team
February 19th, 2010
1:02 pm
@HB, DB, and Momma…I know this is stirring things up, and I’ll take the heat for it, but would this also confirm that homesexuality is genetic too? That it isn’t actually a choice of lifestyle, but that people are actually born this way, like some are born with certain eye color? Food for thought, I guess…but WAY off topic and WAY too controversial! I hate controversy!
Jeff
February 19th, 2010
1:14 pm
Ever notice how some people get fired up over their PERCEPTION that someone-else is getting slighted? Even though they can’t really name names of it happening anywhere around them?
BTW, Tiger, did you ask for a paternity test from the preggos adult film star? I mean, given her chosen profession, I would imagine a paternity test would be a reasonable inquiry.
Tiger needs me on his PR team
February 19th, 2010
1:17 pm
@Jeff…in the imortal words of Aerosmith, Jeff…”she can’t catch me cause the rabbit done died.”
Tiger needs me on his PR team
February 19th, 2010
1:19 pm
of course I meant “immortal”…..shame on me.
HB
February 19th, 2010
1:27 pm
Tiger, yes, this study supports that homosexuality is not a choice. Not necessarily genetic (hormonal and immune influences, for example, are different from genes inherited), but definitely biological.
Tiger needs me on his PR team
February 19th, 2010
1:37 pm
@HB….makes sense why conservatives don’t reference it much, but I wonder why liberals haven’t tried to tout it as a landmark study.
5!!!
February 19th, 2010
1:40 pm
“…but would this also confirm that homesexuality is genetic too? ”
I didn’t realize that in this day and age that we were still waiting on confirmation. I thought only morons still thought otherwise.
I realize that anecdotal evidence is just that and not substatial, however, I’d like to share something.
My uncle Jon was gay. He was the 7th child and the 4th boy. Now, thats not the interesting part. Whats interesting is that all of his brothers are color blind. His sisters, however, have perfect sight. Jon also was not color blind, like his sisters.
Perhaps its coincidental that Jon was both gay and not color blind while all his brothers were straight and color blind, but I don’t think it is.
Just for disclosure, Uncle Jon did have a younger brother who is straight and color blind.
Tiger needs me on his PR team
February 19th, 2010
1:42 pm
@5!!!…don’t get me wrong, I do believe it’s biological…but there is a substantial population who doesn’t.
Rebecca
February 19th, 2010
1:47 pm
Boy or girl? What does it matter? If you want 2, then have 2, etc. It just amazes me that people put more thought into the sex of a child as opposed to whether or not they can afford any of them!
5!!!
February 19th, 2010
1:49 pm
“but there is a substantial population who doesn’t.”
I don’t doubt it.
It occurred to me while watching the State of the Union this year that Barack Obama believes in something that I don’t. That belief is fundamental to his actions and his being. He believes that the American people are exceptional. That they can be counted on and are somethign to be admired. He is hoping that they will come through.
I, on the other hand, believe that the average person (regardless of Nationality) is stupid.
The only thing that ever made this country exceptional was an open immigration policy. That the best and the brightest would leave their horrible countries and come here bringing their exceptional talents, thereby, lifting the entire population with them.
Rebecca
February 19th, 2010
1:51 pm
wow 5!!! that’s interesting
HB
February 19th, 2010
2:08 pm
Tiger, I think the portion of the population that believes biology isn’t a big influence is getting smaller and smaller, even among those who believe homosexuality is a choice, because many of those people define homosexuality as an act, not an attraction/orientation. Or as my cousin puts it in our many arguments over the matter, “Some people are genetically predisposed to alcoholism, but it’s their choice to take a drink.” She’s also been known to say that cancer is natural too, but you want to cure it. So I’m thinking if someone firmly believes that homosexuality is immoral, science is going to do little to sway that opinion.
Michelle
February 19th, 2010
2:08 pm
@ 5!! That theory would support the concept to a point (less testosterone, more female hormones). Color blindness is typically only found in males and is inherited from the mother’s father. Anyway, I wonder if you looked at the birth order (boys @ 1, 2 ,3 ,4, then girl, girl, boy). I wonder if we could surmise that the mother’s body had a “break” from all the testosterone and therefore the testosterone wasn’t blocked as much?! Just a thought!
Also, from reading the study, it appears to be European (from the spelling of certain words) and not American. Hmmm….
Back to the topic…@ I’m the mom: I think you guys are making a good, solid decision to have this bundle of joy and then decide how you feel once all the pregnancy hormones are gone. You may find that you’re done (or as Theresa did) that you want one more, not really feeling the pull of boy/girl just baby! Dang hormones!! :o)
DB
February 19th, 2010
2:12 pm
Tiger, you want to see a pot stirred? OK —
What . . . no one is reflecting on the odds of any of the Dugger’s boys being gay? . . . Tsk, tsk!
SS
February 19th, 2010
2:14 pm
I think Tiger was just pointing out some specifics about statistics that many don’t realize. Statistics and the vocabulary chosen to represent them can be manipulated to be misleading–that’s all.
I don’t blame momma for feeling the way she does–it is reasonable to want to enjoy a gender or the specific type of relationship that each gender brings. With that being said, you have to reign yourself back with the fact that there are no certainties in life. You can’t control what kind of relationship you will have, what if you end up with twins, triplets, all boys, all girls etc?? If you are not open to all the possibilities; you probably shouldn’t try to reproduce because nothing is certain.
What you could do is look for a special friend or relative who has a girl and lavish that girl attention on her. She is already in existence and no child can have too much love and attention. And you get the extra joy of dropping her off when she’s being impossible as all girls can be at times ;) Good luck and may God bless you in all your parenting adventures!
DB
February 19th, 2010
2:15 pm
Michelle: The report that 5!!! referred to is a British newspaper discussing the study. I referenced the study directly in an earlier post. The researcher is Canadian.
Michelle
February 19th, 2010
2:16 pm
DB….tooo funny!!!!
Tiger needs me on his PR team
February 19th, 2010
2:19 pm
@SS…what you said is about the only thing I ever learned from stats. Had to take it twice, once for undergrad and once for grad schood, and the only reason I made it through is because the first time i was dating the prof’s daughter, and the second time the prof got a tenured position at University of Hawaii and went into aloha mode and told the entire class if we’d just do him the favor of showing up, we’d get a B! I don’t even pretend to have made sense out of that study, but I do know that stats can be manipulated. Freakonomics is a great book about all that.
Tiger needs me on his PR team
February 19th, 2010
2:21 pm
@DB….i was THIS close to bringing up the Duggars!!! ;-) funny, great minds must think alike….but it’s “more likely” I just fluked into thinking like a great mind like yours!
Becky
February 19th, 2010
3:10 pm
I have 4 brothers and five sisters..None of the brothers are gay, nor color blind..Just saying..
@I’m the Mom..Go with what is in your heart..If y’all think it’s right to have one more, then do it..Even if it’s another boy, you will love him just as much as the two you have now..
Tiger needs me on his PR team
February 19th, 2010
3:16 pm
I just read the transcript of Tiger’s apology…PERFECT!!!
Well almost perfect, he should have announced that he realizes he and Elin will never make it. But maybe he just doesn’t know that yet….so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
I don’t know, I think I’m going to have to change my name here because apparently Tiger doesn’t need me on his PR team. Any suggestions? anyone? show of hands?
Jane
February 19th, 2010
3:20 pm
Tiger needs me on his PR team – did your “associates” write the apology he read line by line from, or did he write it?
Tiger needs me on his PR team
February 19th, 2010
3:27 pm
@Jane…I would speculate that he worked with a team of writers……same thing every president since WWII has done. Doesn’t matter as long as he meant what he said, and I’m inclinded to believed the final draft was a true reflection of how he feels in his heart.
Becky
February 19th, 2010
3:42 pm
@Tiger..How about “Rocky”? Aren’t you in the Rocky Mountains?
Tiger needs me on his PR team
February 19th, 2010
3:44 pm
@Becky…I am…..I’m thinking maybe “The artist formerly known as Tiger’s PR Team”
TechMom
February 19th, 2010
3:48 pm
iRun… I’m with you on having a child who is pretty self-sufficient and it changing your mind about having another. I had my son when I was 16 and married young (21) but we decided not to have any more until we were both done with college. Fast forward a few years and then I wanted a little time to go on this trip, enjoy that thing, or whatever and we just kept putting it off. By the time the boy turned 12, I could not see myself starting over even though I was only 28 and most of my friends were having their first. I’ve learned that I really like kids, other people’s kids and mostly those over the age of about 10 (& happily work with the middle & high school kids at church). Everyone always asks my husband and I when we’re going to have another or more and although there are times when I *think* I want another, all I have to do is spend some time with a friend’s toddler or have the dogs wake me up in the middle of the night to remind me of all the reasons I wouldn’t want to go through it all again. I actually feel a little selfish for NOT wanting another.
Have a neighbor who after 3 boys actually did go the selective route to have a girl. I was completely shocked by it. It says to me that she wasn’t happy with her boys or her husband and now she’ll be putting all of her lover and energy into the girl. Hope she lives up to Mama’s expectections.
TechMom
February 19th, 2010
3:50 pm
*love* not lover :)
Becky
February 19th, 2010
4:08 pm
@Tiger..That would be a great new name..
Have a coworker that had two boys and could not wait to have a girl..Finally had one and both boys knew right off that baby sister was the golden child..Now the daughter is 14 and Mom can’t wait for her to move out..Just enjoy your kids, no matter what sex they are..