Duggars: Should medical issues mean no more kids?

(AP Photo)

(AP Photo)

Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar surprised a lot of people when they recently told People magazine they are still open to having more kids despite their most recent baby – their 19th child – being born more than three months early and struggling to live with multiple medical issues. (This particular article is not featured online, but here is the most recent story about the Duggars on People.com.)

Mom Michelle had preeclampsia, pregnancy induced high-blood pressure, and the baby girl had to be taken by C-section in December.

Jim Bob and Michelle talk frequently about why they want to have as many kids as the Lord will give them. (The story is on their Web site.)

Michelle miscarried after she conceived on birth control pills. The doctors felt the miscarriage was because of the pills. At that point they decided to they shouldn’t use contraceptives and be open to how ever many kids they conceive whenever they conceive.

Doctors in the People article suggest that the preeclampsia could be a problem in any future pregnancies and additional health problems could arise as Michelle is 43.

People did have some interesting quotes on having multiple babies that I had never heard before:

“ ‘The risks of additional pregnancies tart to go up dramatically after four,’ warns Dr. Jeffrey Richardson,a Ventura, Calif., obstetrician who had practiced for more than 30 years.”

“ ‘Postpartum hemorrhage, dysfunctional labor, preterm labor and early miscarriage are all risks.’ ”

The article says the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists says pregnancies should be spaced out at least 18 months. (I think Rose was 16 months old when I got pregnant with Walsh.)

The article also reported that based on the Bible, The Duggars abstain from sex 40 days after having a boy and 80 days after having a girl.

The Duggars say in People: “Each child is a gift from God.”  Jim Bob adds, “The negatives don’t bother us.” Agrees Michelle: “Our hearts haven’t changed.”

There are many faiths that for many reasons preach that parents need to always be open to conception and there are loads of reasons why people think having as many kids as you can conceive in a lifetime is excessive, but I really want to focus on the medical issues alone.

At what point do medical factors override that openness to having children? At what point does Mom’s health or baby’s potential health change being open to conceiving any time you are having sex?

277 comments Add your comment

lakerat

February 10th, 2010
7:00 am

Not sure how to respond since I believe people should be able to do as they please as long as they can afford the children, as this family can. At the same time, it seems to be to be grossly unfair to all of the children since the parents, potentially, could not possibly have time for each child to really bond effectively. And, as has been pointed out in other articles, it seems that the older children are the one’s responsible for caring for the younger ones.

Regarding, “The doctors felt the miscarriage was because of the pills. At that point they decided to they shouldn’t use contraceptives and be open to how ever many kids they conceive whenever they conceive” – OK, but have they ever heard of condoms…..ANd, yet, they really seem like good and loving parents, so this is quite the conundrum for me as on onlooker from the outside.

motherjanegoose

February 10th, 2010
7:30 am

I have one of each ( 5 years apart ….that we could afford…..LOL) and love them both dearly. I cannot fathom having enough time to mother this many children. Is it possible to snuggle and read a book with 6 children? It is more than financial and having the space for them. I agree with lakerat’s thoughts about parents and time.

To me. the command of multiplying in the Bible was because the earth needed people. Do we need as many now?

Since you want to focus on the medical aspect and I have no verifiable comment here, I will pass and be interested in the medical aspects others share.

I do find that the chance of a future child being medically fragile, because these parents continue to reproduce when they have been given guidelines. is sad to me. They child will be impacted forever with potential health issues.

Jeff

February 10th, 2010
7:30 am

I’ll take these parents contributing to society so much more than octomom and the Gosselins. These parents seem to have their head on reasonably straight, allowing for normal mistakes that all parents make. I say have as many as their conscience (and bodies) allows them to. As a single dad, I wonder how difficult life would be if something DID happen to the mom? I would hope some substantial life insurance has been secured.

first time poster

February 10th, 2010
7:31 am

I agree with the previous poster for the most part. I’m not surprised to hear that they will continue to have more children, unfortunately as she ages the odds are not in their favor to keep having healthy children and the risks to her health are going to keep rising as well. Personally, all I can say is better them then me – no way would I ever have that many kids!

catlady

February 10th, 2010
7:42 am

Are you telling us that they can afford to pay all expenses for all these children themselves? NO federal or state aid at all? Of course not. Therefore, they have had far more than all the children they should have. God gave us brains for a reason.

It is immoral to do this to other taxpayers. It is immoral to treat their children as collateral damage.

Has she exclusively breastfed all these babies for 12 months each? I am doubting it. If she had breastfed,it is unlikely that she would have conceived so quickly, repeatedly. They need to learn some self-control. Substitute her face with that of a black woman, and see if anyone would be so forgiving of her “rights” to singlehandedly populate a small town, on the public dime (or millions).

I predict she will be dead well before 50 (although they may keep her body alive for “one more try.”)

Disgusting on every level: moral, health, religious.

And before you say, “Well, it must be God’s will” think of what else you must be saying about God’s will. He doesn’t will us to breed like animals, or discount ethical considerations.

motherjanegoose

February 10th, 2010
7:45 am

@catlady…this is somewhat on topic…did your daughter find an OB she likes?

RJ

February 10th, 2010
7:59 am

@catlady, I read about the Duggars several years ago and they’ve always been financially able to take care of their kids. They have a system that works for them, but I do question how they’re able to really bond with all 19 kids. I would think it would be difficult with 4 or 5.

My great grandmother had 14 kids. I’m sure this was the norm at that time. My grandmother had 8. I only have 2. We couldn’t necessarily “afford” the first one, but did what we had to. I’m amazed at how this family has managed. The medical issues should make them reconsider their decision to continue having children. She needs to be healthy for the kids that she has now.

Jane

February 10th, 2010
8:00 am

@catlady – how hateful of you today!

YEs – they are financially sound and are NOT dependent on taxpayers – so they are not doing anything IMMORAL to taxpayers such as yourself.

You’re saying that if she doesn’t breastfeed each child for 12 months shes a bad mother? I couldn’t (and didn’t) breastfeed my children, but I’m far from a bad mother.

You’re the only one citing racism (if she was a black woman…) – so be careful where you point your finger.

Saying they may keep her body alive for one more try at a pregnancy is just nasty, gross and a reflection of your pitiful self.

YOU are the one who is disgusting morally and religiously.

Their lives aren’t any of your business, so do go acting all high and mighty insulting them. You’re pathetic.

Jeff

February 10th, 2010
8:02 am

Sorry you’re having such a bad day catlady.

HI there

February 10th, 2010
8:02 am

While I think it’s great they can afford to have as many children as they like, I worry about what this is passing onto their children. Honestly, do they not think about the impact this many children has on the planet? If they have 19 kids, and each of thier children have just two kids each, that’s 38 grandkids alone and if they each have as “many as god will give them” than who knows what the total number would be.

I’m not sure how much this is costing the tax payer since John used to be a state senator and I don’t know if thier health benefits last for life, or just that term. Might be something worth looking into. Honestly though, if this keeps up, we’ll be like China or Japan who only allow families to have one child each. I just feel this is selfish.

On the topic at hand, how much damage has been done to this poor womens body after having so many children? My only child was by C-section because I too suffered from preeclampsia and now have this as a major worry when thinking of having a second child. My risks have greatly increased and I will be putting myself at more risks having a second child. Who would take care of my first born if anything was to happen to me? If I died having a second one, would my first born wonder why she wasn’t enough for mommy? I often wonder if their older children feel this way when mom continues to have child after child giving them less and less of themselves to them since there are so many to spread it around to.

Lisa

February 10th, 2010
8:05 am

catlady needs to shove it!

motherjanegoose

February 10th, 2010
8:07 am

@ Jane…calm down…I think the point catlady is making about breastfeeding is that IN BIBLE TIMES thy probably did not have infant formulas they do now and thus most everyone breastfed their children

If the Duggars are citing the BIBLE rules then they should perhaps pay attention to all of them?
( wow that could be a chore).

This is a big issue for me as so many people cite a specific Bible verse or custom while ignoring others. I find this to be buffet Christianity….select the Bible verses ( food on the buffet) that appeals to you but ignore the verses ( food on the buffet) that does not taste good in your life.

JMHO

HI there

February 10th, 2010
8:07 am

Jane,

When they invited cameras into their home to make money off their story, it did become our business. Catlady was merely pointing out that had this been a black women the issues would change, not saying that she is a racist, it’s just the way things are, the truth hurts sometimes. Also, how do you know they are not doing this on the taxpayers dime? He was a Senator, so it’s very possible he is still on government healthcare and you know how much better it is for the “bosses” then the “workers (tax payers).” Relax a little and get back on topic, which is the health of the mother.

cld

February 10th, 2010
8:17 am

@ catlady, As others have said, this family is NOT on any form of public assistance. I actually have read (and watched) a great deal about them. While it is not the life I choose to lead, I have no issue with their decisions. They are taking care of their own, which is more than many Americans today. Also, breastfeeding for 12 months will not ensure you don’t get pregnant in that time. Most breastfeeding women begin ovulating again around 9-10 months after delivery – which actually is when Ms. Duggar tends to conceive again. So I would venture to say she IS breastfeeding, even though that is not a mark of good/bad mother.

I am Catholic, which is a religion that teaches the evils of birth control. Before I had my son, I was on the pill for six years. Through much personal research (completely unrelated to the propoganda shoved down our throats at pre-marital counseling), we have decided hormonal birth control is not something we want to use at this time in our lives. Yet, 20 months after the birth of our son, we still have managed to not get pregnant again.

While I completely understand wanting to have as many babies as the Lord will give you, I also think he gives us signs along the way. Maybe these struggles with their youngest, is a sign that they should slow down. I have a friend who was very disappointed that she suffered some physical injury during the birth of her most recent child. She fully intended to let nature take its course and have another baby as soon as God allowed . . . but she has to wait now. IMO, that IS God’s plan; He’s telling her to slow down.

dg

February 10th, 2010
8:24 am

Everybody has the right to risk their lives and follow their beliefs, duggars do as well. As long as they have never received a single penny from anyone, except for income by Michael. No TV money, no magazine money, no interview fee and no chritable donations of funds/goods etc from anyone. Raising the kids on their own strength they are free to kill Michelle during childbirth if they decide to.
But if they have accepted a single penny that stems from all the publicity they are getting each time, they they are no better than the Balloon Family.

Becky

February 10th, 2010
8:28 am

I’m with Lakerat and others on this..If they can afford them, then have as many as you want, but children need more than parents that have money..Coming from a family of 10 and having a Dad (drunk) that wasn’t there for us and a Mom that worked all of the time, I understand what people are saying about needing bonding time..

The Duggars do seem to be loving, caring parents, but it does seem like the older ones “parent” a lot of the younger ones..So, if this works for them, great..

@catlady..Sounds like you are having a really off day, hope that it gets better…

cld

February 10th, 2010
8:28 am

I think there is a huge difference between taking government aid, and taking money for their TV show, books and interviews. The Duggars were following this practice LONG before they began receiving publicity. I think they had 12 or 14 kids before they ever did their first TV appearance – so it is a genuine belief, not just a publicity stunt (as we’ve seen in other families).

What is the difference between them accepting money for their TV show, and families of child actors/singers accepting payment for their children’s work? While most child stars are paid in funds that they can’t fully access until they come of age, most of their parents receive some sort of cut of that money, either from managerial commissions or simply cost-of-living allotments.

motherjanegoose

February 10th, 2010
8:30 am

Since this was brought up…..my husband’s mother was one of 10 ( I believe) a Catholic family.
His sister has told me that her mom could not wait to get out of the house and married at 17….was tired of doing all the work involved with the other siblings.

Is there anyone else out there today who comes from a big family and has a perspective about being sucked into the work that the Mother could not do alone? My Grandma was the oldest of 9 but we never discussed this. I do not know.

Theresa Walsh Giarrusso

February 10th, 2010
8:35 am

they do pay for all their children and live debt free. She is pumping in the article to give to the baby in the Nic U so I would guess she generally nurses. that’s really hard to do — pump for nic u.

I do think they are very good parents. I think the older kids help a lot with the younger kids. The link to their web site is very interesting — it tells how she manages the home and gives their daily schedule — it’s pretty interesting.

Theresa Walsh Giarrusso

February 10th, 2010
8:37 am

MJG – my grandmother had to step into that role for her sibs but her mother died. so a little bit different. She left town too as soon as she could to get away from all that responsibility.

cld

February 10th, 2010
8:39 am

@MJG, I know that my husband’s grandmother was in that situation. I don’t know how many siblings she had, but she was the oldest daughter and was responsible for much of the cooking, canning and childcare. She married as a teenager just to get away from all the responsibilities, and held a long-standing resentment toward her mother.

Jeff

February 10th, 2010
8:43 am

Why shouldn’t they be allowed to make money off their story. That’s the free market at work. That’s not taking money from other people because that is a voluntary choice, not coerced by the government like welfare, etc. I say go for it. If someone is willing to pay you (voluntarily) for a story they think is worth paying for, then more power to you.

first time poster

February 10th, 2010
8:43 am

As far as I am aware the Duggers are not on the public dole, they follow that Dave Ramsey guys teachings (think that’s him) and have lived on a cash only basis for many years. Again, I don’t agree with what they are doing, and in my opinion living your life based on a book isn’t the smartest thing to do, however it’s their lives and their beliefs and from what I can see they are not harming anyone else in the process. I just can’t get that worked up over them.

Becky

February 10th, 2010
8:44 am

@cld..Love your post..As I said, I come from a family of 10, with about 2 years between each child (except for the twins)..My Mother breast fed the first 4-5..Didn’t stop her from getting pregnant over and over..

@Hi there..I don’t think that they made it our business by inviting cameras into their house..We don’t have to watch them, if we choose not to..They are not trying to gain publicity off of this (IMO)..

@dg..Why shouldn’t they make money off of TV? They aren’t trying to exploit (sp) their children, they are just trying to show American’s how life is with a large family..As someone else said, these children aren’t any different than child actors..

catlady

February 10th, 2010
8:44 am

I am glad to hear they are not on any taxpayer assistance. So, all the children are home schooled, had home births, and have had this cesarean at home with all the attendant care for the premie? His work insurance pays for ALL of this? (I do understand that they probably have great assistance from volunteers, etc.) No WIC? No peachcare equivalent? No foodstamps? You see, public assistance takes many forms. Then there is welfare (like the writeoff for income taxes for size of family, home interest payments, EIC)–those hidden welfare payments that middle class people believe is “due” them. The new baby will probably be eligible for SSI immediately, as well, if she is (likely) handicapped–about $700 per month plus health care.

I don’t think I am bring unnecessarily harsh. Her fecundity affects more people than just them. There are great other costs besides money here. (Think about how many grandkids she and her husband will have if their reproductive prowess extends to the next generation. I believe one son has already started on this?)

I teach kids from families with 8,10, 12 kids. What I have observed, in addition to the obvious, is that the kids get progressively less intelligent with each new baby. These kids tend to replicate this pattern.

I really don’t think I am being hateful, but some people think THEY are the most important and THEIR ideas are the only ones correct. Time for the Duggars to get plugged into the real world, where having 19 kids to insure that 5 live to adulthood isn’t necessary, as it was in Biblical times. My mom was one of 9 and my father’s mother was one of 13 (greatgrandma died in childbirth, or there would have been more).

Re the racism: Replace her shining white face with a black one with multiple kids hanging all over (some with their own next generation obvious), eyes yellow from HIV or teeth gone from crack/meth, and see if you feel the same way. I am willing to say YOU DO NOT! I am not the racist here. Black mothers of 19 don’t get much sympathy or encouragement, yet this lady has here own cheering section.

Any of you who wish to contribute to this family, go ahead. I believe in personal responsibility, and breeding like a rabbit is NOT responsible, even if you were Bill Gates!

YUKI

February 10th, 2010
8:44 am

I think if they can take care of all those kids, then so be it. It’s the people that keep having a bunch of kids and expect us to pay for it that really burns me up. But if these people are responsible and can care for them (even with the help of a TV show), then so be it. I just don’t understand for the life of me how that woman can spend literally half of her life pregnant. Ugghhh! And it does seem a bit unfair to the older kids who obviously have way more responsiblity than normal kids who don’t have 10 or whatever younger siblings to take care of. If I would have had to spend my childhood playing “mother” to a bunch of brothers and sisters and not been able to just be a kid, I’d probably be a little bitter. But they seem like nice people and the kids seem well adjusted from the small clips of the show that I have seen.

I do think, though that maybe after all the health issues of having this latest baby, they might want to think about slowing it down……

Andrea

February 10th, 2010
8:50 am

Well, I don’t consider this a “huge” family by these standards but a good friend of mine was one of five siblings growing up. Once the parents divorced, the oldest sister had to become more involved in the running of the household because mom had to work. Fast forward to when they were adults and the ripple effect manifests itself. The oldest girl had one child and then had another child and the kids are 11 years apart. The oldest became a primary caregiver and the mother reconciled it by saying it was what she had to do growing up. Totally wrong but the choices of the parents manifest in different ways through the children.

I am sure these are good people, but being able to create life and being able to provide a quality of life are different things. There is no way this work is not being shared by the older children.

@catlady – I think some of the comments toward you are off base. The truth does hurt and it can make others uncomfortable, but you still tell it. And if the husband is receiving congressional benefits, that is on the taxpayer’s dime. Granted, we do it for all senators, but it is still on the taxpayer’s dime. If they had to self-insure 19 kids, I would bet my paycheck, it would be a different story.

catlady

February 10th, 2010
8:55 am

MJG she goes to the new people tomorrow. Hopefully it will go well.

I guess many on this blog have not experienced what I have, seeing huge families.

But if you kid yourself that they are not getting welfare (if nothing more than through tax breaks based on family size) you are deluding yourself.

In addition, being willing to do that to your older kids seems abusive to me. Of course, I was an only child who was not “inflicted” on older siblings so my mom and dad could set some world’s record for God.

In the large families I know, the older kids spend significant childhood time taking care of the others, with some real bitter feelings and negative results. I think each of your children should be a special, separate entity, not Number 12. Can you imagine how kid 12 feels when he hears that mom is pregnant yet again and his tiny amount of her time is about to get smaller? And he is merely lost in the crowd, with number 8 or 9 acting as his mentor?

Think about it–you want your beloved spouse to have a dozen wives? After all, one of the older wives will take care of you, etc.

It’s good that to each his own. It’s just when “his own” impacts me or my family that I cry foul. It really seems like a mental health issue to me, like those who collect cats.

Good day to all.

DB

February 10th, 2010
8:55 am

I know what *I* would do, if faced with the possibility of losing my life during a pregnancy. While I certainly am grateful for God’s gift of my children, I always felt that God also gave me a brain to use to the best of my ability as well as a uterus. But that’s me. Michelle Dugger is free to make whatever choices are right for her and her family. I don’t have to agree with them, but I don’t judge her for them, especially since they seem to be making responsible choices as far as providing for them and raising them. She and her husband have managed quite a balancing act. It’s not what I would choose for a family model, but I’m pretty sure that Kids #3 through #17 are pretty happy to be here in the world.

One of my best friends growing up in elementary, junior and high school was the oldest of five kids, and her activities were constantly curtailed by having to care for her younger siblings – her parents divorced at the end of junior high, which put even more of the burden on her. She married somewhat earlier than the rest of us, and I think we were all sort of expecting her to start punching out kids. But nope — nary a one. When I asked her about it 5 years later, she declared, vehemently, that “she had already been a mother, thank you very much, and now it was HER time.” She is a doting aunt to her sibling’s kids, but she really craves the peace and quiet of her home.

cld

February 10th, 2010
9:01 am

Hmmm, so is catlady saying all of us with kids are on welfare? Because each dependant comes with a tax deduction? Wow, I never consider myself a welfare recipient. But I guess in her eyes, I am.

DB

February 10th, 2010
9:05 am

@catlady: Interesting that you have this perspective from being an only child. I, too, was an only child up until the age of 13 — my mom had a miscarriage and some fertility issues that weren’t as easily addressed back in the 60’s, and I was almost 13 when my brother was born. Instead of being delighted at having a sibling, I was horrified — I had a pretty sweet deal as an only child, and just saw my entire world as being destroyed. It’s easy to look back and say “Pretty selfish,” huh? Well, it was what it was. Luckily, my parents were very careful not to “inflict” my brother on me. They always asked if I could babysit, never expected it, and only once or twice were my own actions curtailed because of having to pitch in and help out at home with my brother. My brother and I were never “friends” growing up — how could we be? He was 6 when I went off to college! Now that we are both adults, we are friends, and I guess I was the neutral “adult” in the family when he was a rebellious teenager, who could talk sense to him without it being “parental”.

Anyway, catlady, what I’m trying to say is that the example you gave of Kid #12 being resentful is probably not nearly as profound as it would have been for you or me. They have been surrounded by siblings since they were born — they don’t know any other way to live, and you can’t miss what you never had. I think it will be interesting to see how many GRANDCHILDREN the Duggers end up having, after their children grow up and decide how to arrange their own families.

Cheryl

February 10th, 2010
9:11 am

RJ – “I do question how they’re able to really bond with all 19 kids. I would think it would be difficult with 4 or 5.” What an idiot. I have 4 kids and have bonded well with all of them. Don’t assume what you don’t know.

@catlady – watch the show or read about them before you speak. They are self-employed and do not take any kids of public assistance, including those you mentioned. Why does it bother you that they made a choice that you wouldn’t have made?

s

February 10th, 2010
9:20 am

Medical issues meant only one child for my wife and I. Our child was premature and my wife was really sick. Everyone turned out fine, but it was scary at the time.

We could have kept going, but the doctors said that we were at a slightly increased risk of having the same issues. That was enough for me. I got a vasectomy. And really, one child has been enough. I don’t feel like there is something missing in that department.

I guess its up to each of us to decide what risks we would take. As for the Duggars, I just don’t care.

ABC

February 10th, 2010
9:23 am

I am so tired of hearing about these people…as tired as I am of the Gosselins. Obviously, the Duggars are free to do what they wish as long as they don’t cause problems for other people. But they need to wake up. While I respect their religious beliefs (even if I don’t agree with them at all), at some point common sense needs to enter the picture and Michelle needs to think about her own health and well being. Also, with so many kids, no matter how loving the parents and household, how in the world are they able to give each child the attention and one-on-one time he or she deserves. I read somewhere once that families should only have as many children as there are adults in the house to take care of them. That really resonated with me. Not only does it cut down on the population (a valid concern in an age where we are expending our precious natural resources at an alarming rate), but it ensures parents have the time and energy necessary for each child.
I hope the Duggars’ youngest turns out fine, I really do, but I hope they will take this as a sign from their God that maybe they are done with reproducing.

lakerat

February 10th, 2010
9:25 am

Whoa, catlady – please get off your high horse today – your blanket accusation that all of us are on welfare because the gov’t allows tax deductions is WAAAYYY off base.

As others have pointed out, and as far as all that we have read on the family, the father provides for the family through his real estate business, and they have never required any governmental assistance.

Your rant really has given all of us a new side of you, one that is not so likeable. While you may be way down the sidewalk of life (as MJG likes to say) this attitude of “they are only in it for the money from OTHERS – actually, you sound a lot like my MIL – LOL)” is way off base. Also, eligibility for WIC, etc is available (or used to be – I rally haven’t followed those criteria in quite a while) to everyone, so, no they are not “mooching” off of you or anyone else, anymore than the rest of us are (have).

So, again, just how are their decisions impacting you, right now?

Theresa Walsh Giarrusso

February 10th, 2010
9:27 am

Side issue – Facebook reprinted our blog from the other day about Vomit tracking via FAcebook.

ttp://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=289452922130

cld

February 10th, 2010
9:28 am

@s – I am glad to hear you took measures to keep your family’s health at heart. I know someone who had terrible pregnancy-related health issues, resulting in a premie almost four months early (healthy today, after four months in the NICU). That couple still plans to have more children, against the doctors’ warnings that the same health issues will likely repeat (mostly preventable, but the parents apparently lack the incentive to make some changes in their lives). Everyone is healthy today, but I think they are selfish if they proceed without making some major changes. I applaud you for recognizing the bigger picture. Just my $.02.

mom2alex&max

February 10th, 2010
9:30 am

I am pretty sure they are not in any kind of public assistance. Do they of course, pimp themselves out just like the Gossards and the octo-moron. But it’s my choice whether I watch or not, thus increasing ratings and advertising dollars. I choose not to watch.

catlady

February 10th, 2010
9:30 am

cld, OF COURSE you are getting welfare! Not just because you have kids, however. That’s the thing. Everyone calls what they get “deserved” and what the black crack mothers get “welfare.”!

In addition, the Duggars family is using up 7 times a normal allotment of air, water, food, etc. Is that fair, even if they can “afford” it? They are affording it by someone else NOT getting it.

And, as for being “self-employed? (is that what they call it?) Unless you are the boss of a one-person business, you are making money off the labor of others (who are not getting paid the amount they are making for you, BTW).

I really prefer to remain blissfully ignorant about this family and how they “get by” on the backs of others. It is almost totally impossible to consider that they are doing it all themselves, growing their own food, purifying their own water, recycling all their wastes, building their own roads, not to mention their “self-employment.”

Sorry folks, I think some of you are badly deluded. But good day to all, and God bless.

cld

February 10th, 2010
9:36 am

catlady, How do you know I’m not black? Welfare is a paycheck from the government. Or a food allowance from the government. A tax deduction off the money I EARNED at my job, and am paying taxes on – merely decreases the amount of taxes I’m paying. I may get a $3,000 deduction on my tax bill, but I’m PAYING the government far more than that annually in taxes. The difference is that people receiving welfare are not paying money into the government, merely accepting payment from the government.

What about people who deduct interest payments from their mortgages? Or tax-deferred retirement plans? Health care or dependant care flexible spending accounts? What about the fact that those of us with employer-sponsored (or supplemented) health insurance premiums, are not taxed on the portion of our premiums that are emplyer-paid? What about tax writeoffs for health care (beyond premiums), student loans, business expenses? I’d like to hear from someone . . . anyone who doesn’t have a single tax deduction. Please speak up.

cld

February 10th, 2010
9:37 am

p.s. I never said I deserved anything. The government is being very nice in allowing me to deduct a large portion of my income from my tax obligations.

lakerat

February 10th, 2010
9:37 am

Surely this is not the “real” catlady posting today…

first time poster

February 10th, 2010
9:39 am

Wow, who knew that not growing your own food, paving your own roads purifying your own water or recycling your own waste is considered living off the backs of others; thanks for the update. OTT much?

Michelle

February 10th, 2010
9:39 am

To the topic at hand, I think the health issues will continue to rise. For the “average” adult woman health issues begin to crop up in the 40’s and 50’s! Imagine what it would be like if you are pregant more than not?! I think with this last child, it could be a fluke, or perhaps she is getting to a point where her body is not handling things quite so well.

Something else to keep in mind, perhaps she may go into an early menopause and then it would all be a moot discussion anyway!

I definitely would not want a huge family like they have. I do feel though, that it depends on the involvement of the parents. My mom has 7 other siblings and they all have an average of 5 kids each! The older ones didn’t necesarily get “stuck” taking care of the others. Do they help out, sure. Are they the primary caretaker? Probably not!

With a lot of the large families that are in a religious aspect (as theirs is) there is a lot of love and companionship. They share, play games, cook together, clean up. They actually learn a lot more about responsibilities than most of today’s kids!

I would venture to say that some of the kids will continue with the large families, but I’ll bet a few will find “creative” ways to avoid them!

We are in no position to judge others, but I do see where catlady is coming from with a few of her statements!

s

February 10th, 2010
9:44 am

“Re the racism: Replace her shining white face with a black one with multiple kids hanging all over (some with their own next generation obvious), eyes yellow from HIV or teeth gone from crack/meth, and see if you feel the same way. I am willing to say YOU DO NOT! I am not the racist here.”

You may not be racist, but you aren’t very logical.

If the family was white but had illegal drug issues then I think that would change people’s feelings as well.

Speaking of drugs, did you take your medication today?

Jeff

February 10th, 2010
9:50 am

Yes, catlady, your comment IS racist. But I still hope your day gets better for you and all those around you.

Theresa Walsh Giarrusso

February 10th, 2010
10:01 am

Catlady is a good contributor on this blog — she just happens to disagree on this topic – — but try to be nice to her because she is part of our family.

JATL

February 10th, 2010
10:07 am

The Duggars disgust me to the point that it’s almost difficult for me to have a conversation about them! I’ve even written the Discovery/TLC networks to chastise them for glorifying this idiotic display. I don’t care if they can afford them, want them -whatever. That’s completely irresponsible! The planet is already overpopulated without these ignoramuses adding to it. Their oldest just made them grandparents and they still want MORE of their own? I saw an interview with her talking about their belief from a passage in the Bible about being “quiverful” and that God gives you as many arrows to fill your quiver as he thinks you need. YEAH? Well God also gave us brains so we wouldn’t breed like a pair of rodents! They’re DISGUSTING!!!!!

RJ

February 10th, 2010
10:26 am

@Cheryl, why so angry? An idiot? Far from it! My mom had 3 and worked full time. We didn’t all get her attention as much as she would’ve liked because there were 3 of us! I swear some of you must live the most unhappy lives. Glad I get mine on the regular! Geesh! Get a life! It ain’t that serious!

@catlady, seems like you’re having a bad morning. I agree with you on how she would be viewed if she were black, but that’s not the point. They are not on government assistance. They homeschool their kids and have done quite well for themselves. You seem to really have a problem without actually knowing them. I have no problem with how they’re living their lives. I have seen kids from large families, however the ones I know live in poverty. Mama is a crack addict which is why she keeps having babies. They come to school with all sorts of problems. Grandma is usually taking care of them anyway. This family is different from what I’ve seen.

M1chelle

February 10th, 2010
10:37 am

@catlady – I understand you saying that the opinions may differ if the mom was Black and I agree with that statement. What I don’t agree with is why would you would add that the black mom would have HIV or be on crack? Two very different issues. There is a stereotype of welfare recipients – black, single mothers with lots of kids. However, many people don’t like to admit it, but there is a gross number of welfare recipeints that don’t fit that stereotype.

JATL

February 10th, 2010
10:47 am

As far as medical issues go -they are INCREDIBLY fortunate and blessedly lucky that they haven’t had at least one special needs child yet. As she ages, it’s going to happen at some point that they have a Down’s baby, an autistic child -something that requires a lot more of a parent’s time and energy and isn’t so easily foisted off on the elder siblings. That’s one medical reason for them to quit breeding. It’s also amazing to me that her uterus hasn’t ruptured. She’s had numerous c-sections as well as vaginal deliveries, and many doctors tell women after 3 or 4 c-sections that they don’t need to have any more because each one weakens the uterus and opens the door for problems if another c-section needs to be done. And one of the reasons women used to die in their 30s and 40s even if NOT during childbirth was simply because their bodies were worn out. Pregnancy and birth really takes a toll on your body. It’s one that your body was made to withstand -to a point! Also since she had preeclampsia with this one and she’s over 40, she has a MUCH higher risk of having it again. I’m sure none of these factors will change anything though because they’re just dumb. I’ve watched them several times, and there’s just not a whole lot happening behind her eyes. This is the only thing she can do and it’s what gets her attention, and that’s the crux of why they have all of these kids.

s

February 10th, 2010
10:53 am

Its kind of surprising that the Mr. Duggar would still want to sleep with his wife. Seems like having 19 children would have destroyed her body. Plus she’s been pregnant for most of their marriage. When women are pregnant, they are gassy, bloated, beasts for a couple of months. I don’t blame them for being so irritable, but its certainly not attractive. This woman has a litter of children, I bet that her labia hang like curtains.

JATL

February 10th, 2010
11:11 am

@S -Ha Haaaaaa! You are SO right. I’ve had two kids and the body does take a bruising! You can certainly get back in shape and wear your stretch marks proudly as a sign that you are a mother, but after 19 -I can’t even imagine what it all must look like! There’s a great mock-up of them floating around in cyberspace that has the family portrait (like an Olan Mills) and says below it -”The Vagina -it’s not a clown car.” Those later kids are probably crawling out….

Jane

February 10th, 2010
11:12 am

Theresa, please check catlady’s blog at 9:30 am – I’m sure it came from a different IP address than her others today. Looks like someone wants to “pretend” to be her.

Becky

February 10th, 2010
11:18 am

@M1chelle..LOL..Change your black mom to white and the HIV to hepatitis(sp) and you have my sister..

My problem with anyone getting government help is that (IMO), it helps the wrong people..People that are out working and trying to do for their family can’t get help, but people that don’t (and won’t) work, can get all sorts of help..A single parent that makes min. wage makes to much money to get any help and I don’t think that is right..Like I said about my sister..She is a crack addict and has hepatitis C (drugs), yet she can get food stamps and disability because she does drugs..So, if the Duggars are getting benefits from his job with the government, he worked for it and earned it..

Millie

February 10th, 2010
11:21 am

“S” that comment was totally uncalled for! What gives you the right to disrespect this modest woman’s body in that way. You have no idea what she looks like and if you did it is none of your business! She remains a very attractive woman who is very good at taking care of herself other than the multiple pregnancies. Her OB doctor stated after baby 18 that Michelle is admirably suited to bearing children and her reproductive organs are in great condition. Yes, she is at a somewhat higher risk for a repeat of the preeclampsia, but this time it was triggered by the gallbladder problems and she also had a shorter space than usual between pregnancies. I am sure they will take her health into consideration before another pregnancy, they only said they were still “open to the possibility”.

UGH

February 10th, 2010
11:21 am

Sorry but I agree 100% with Catlady, Hi There & JATL. That type of serial over-breeding is unnatural. The world is suffering with environmental & poverty issues because of over-population. I think Michelle Duggar is addicted to being pregnant & needs to see a professional. I cannot believe how so many people feel this type of existance is acceptable. The older kids are nothing but unpaid slaves & they are all being robbed of teh childhood that every youngster deserves. What kind of attention can the parents possibly give each child? In my book, that is child abuse!

TechMom

February 10th, 2010
11:22 am

I just had this conversation with a pregnant co-worker yesterday. We’re both astonished that Michelle and Jim Bob are functioning adults with that many kids (you’d have to ship me off to the looney bin) let alone that Michelle still has all the ‘parts’ to still get pregnant after 18 kids. Quite frankly I am completely amazed that they have 18 healthy children. As far a I’ve seen there aren’t any with even mild health conditions so maybe it’s good genes. I do wonder if they’ll consider trying alternatives to NOT getting pregnant for a while that don’t include the pill. This latest pregnancy was a surprise timing wise and I do think they try to space their kids out a little more although they are open to whatever God’s plan is for them. As a Christian I must say I admire they’re faithfulness. I don’t see their choice to hope and pray for the best any different than lots of folks only having their first or second child. I have another co-worker who didn’t have her first child until her late 30s and had a baby with Down Syndrome. She and her husband wanted more children and even though there is a risk they would have a 2nd child with Downs, they still chose to get pregnant. Should they not have tried for another child? It’s not a risk I would choose to take but obviously they’re desire for another child outweighed the risk of having another child with medical issues.

My friend and I joked about how many of the girls would move from daddy’s house to their husband’s house and start popping out babies and how many would move out, never have kids and be in therapy for the rest of their lives. My guess is more will take the former route as this is what has been taught to them as normal and appropriate (and remember they don’t watch TV and only associate with other large families with similar beliefs so their knowledge of the outside world is very limited).

blog voyer

February 10th, 2010
11:28 am

The Duggar family is interesting, no doubt. It’s not just because they have decided to have so many children either. I honestly think there is something a little strange or “off” about the situation. That being said, their decision to have 19+ children is fine with me. That stands for them or anyone else. I don’t think its a big deal unless they start mooching constantly off of other people, which they don’t do. They sustain themselves.

I do understand the concern for the amount of time each child gets to spend with their parents though. I am one of twelve children and both my parents spent time with each of us. I do feel like having so many siblings made me more appreciative of my parents and the time we spend together. I am one of the youngest of the twelve, but I do know that my older siblings were involved in lots of different activities as children. For the last few of us we also got to participate in school activities and things like that. I have enjoyed being a part of a big family, each of my siblings has their own unique contribution to our family as a whole. That being said the majority of my siblings have “average” sized families. I, myself, would like to have three or four children.

At what point do medical factors override that openness to having children?
For me, if I knew that having another child would drastically increase the odds of complications for my health, or for that of the child I would probably shut down the shop. If I really wanted additional children, I’d look into alternative methods.

Overall, I think people should have as many children as they want, provided they support them financially, emotionally, and all the other ways. It is my personal opinion that each parent should provide for their children better opportunities than they had. If a parent finds that they can’t provide a better life or better opportunities, I believe they should stop having children. Something should improve for the next generation.

-Just my opinion ;)

itpdude

February 10th, 2010
11:32 am

This is a question for the two people making the baby but for me, yes, medical issues should mean no kids, PARTICULARLY when you already have kids. I think it is supremely selfish for someone to risk the lives or handcuff the lives of another sentient being to satisfy their own existential crisis. For example, my ex-wife has a history of autism in her family. I wanted to adopt. She had to have a kid. We divorced. She re-married and had a kid of her “own”. . . . who is autistic.

That is unethical on her part to the child and to society. It is unethical towards society because society is picking up much of the tab for her child due to special education (which should be performed now that he is here) and other issues of and related to autism. People need to look at their own genetic and medical makeup and determine what is not simply best for them, but best for those around them. There are children being shuffled from foster home to foster home. Do the right thing and adopt.

s

February 10th, 2010
11:36 am

You’re right Millie. I take it back. For all I know her vagina might still be in great shape and her labia might look just like it did on her prom night. I was wrong to assume that 19 children passing through her womb might have changed the appearance of any part of her crotch. And obviously Mr. Duggar still likes her vagina very much, so who am I to judge?

JATL

February 10th, 2010
11:39 am

@itpdude -that’s another thing I’ve wondered -since the Duggars are SUCH big Christians, if they wanted 20 kids -why didn’t they adopt a bunch of them? She still could have had some of their own, but they could have given so many kids out there a permanent home. While I don’t think having so many siblings is a great thing, their situation WOULD beat being shuffled around from foster home to foster home or living in a state-run orphanage.

lulu

February 10th, 2010
11:41 am

Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t they have health insurance for life from Mr. Duggar having previously been a state rep? They may not be “on the dole”, but the taxpayers are certainly paying for the health care needs of their family.

While I applaud their ability to financially support their children otherwise, I still think it is irresponsible to continue to have children. Scientifically, breastfeeding does provide a certain amount of birth control – and for a reason. Short intervals between pregnancies have been known to contribute to low birthweight infants and other related medical problems. IMO, it should be obvious that, after this scare, they should commit their time to the many children they have rather than to risk their mother’s life – but that’s their decision.

I do have some serious issues with the fact that they choose to show their “love” for children by bringing in baby after baby of their own – I wish they would turn their values outward rather than just applying them to their own family. Perhaps by fostering or adopting children who actually need it rather than singlehandedly trying to double the earth’s population, they could do some good while also fulfilling their desire to raise a multitude of children.

mystery poster

February 10th, 2010
11:50 am

@Catlady
I agree with you 100%. As long as we live in a society, everything that we do affects other people.

Tarah

February 10th, 2010
11:52 am

I’ve been following the Duggars for a long time now. I applause them for their poise and faith in the midst of this hard time. They love every child that they have and care for each one individually. These are beautiful, well-rounded children with precious souls. I’m always so excited to tell people about this family and how they do it! I think this is a wonderful ministry! They have no debt and “buy used and save the difference”! They don’t and have never relied on ANY government aid. It’s hard for many to imagine considering the world we live in. Nobody has to live their lives except for them. So I encourage you to pray for them and encourage them on this long and difficult road!

Magenta

February 10th, 2010
11:53 am

The medical question alone is an interesting one. My mom came from a big family. She was #5 of 6, and her younger sister was born when Mom was about 3. Grandma had to stay in bed for most of her pregnancy in order to avoid miscarrying — and she was a very healthy, strong woman. When my aunt was born, however, she was in fine shape. In fact, of the 6 siblings, she was one who lived the 2nd longest, passing away at age 75. Grandma, however, lived to be 99. Yes, she was one tough lady!

On the other hand…my mom only had me, but she was already in her late 30s, and she didn’t make it to 70, due to heart disease caused by smoking. So it sounds to me as though Mrs. Duggar has an even chance of doing OK, even in her early 40s with so many previous births. She has a devoted husband and financial security. But she’s certainly a rare exception.

My late mother-in-law had 6 kids in very rapid succession. For the most part, their births were just slightly more than one year apart. Many of my husband’s siblings have been in chronically poor health, but I don’t know whether this is a medical issue or a socio-economic one. “Dad” didn’t stick around and she raised all 6 on her own. She did live into her 70s but also had chronic problems — high blood pressure, osteoporosis, and eventually blindness and lung cancer.

Kristin

February 10th, 2010
11:55 am

I have to address the overpopulation comments that I have read over and over again. Their carbon foot print is smaller than most modern families that have an average of 2 children. They wear clothes from second hand stores, they drive used vehicles and they grow their own food. The children are homeschooled (so there isn’t the pollution of buses parents driving them), they do not have video games or televisions in each room, and they built their own home with their own hands. The average American child goes through countless pairs of shoes because of what fads dictate, receive a new gaming system every few years, has their own computer and television in their room and each child has their own bedroom, which is usually quite large and requires additional heating and cooling.

Those that question how irresponsible the Duggers are for their taking of natural resources I have to question how environmentally responsible are you? How many square feet does your family live in?

Krys

February 10th, 2010
11:59 am

With all the care and attention that has to go into children (not to mention money), I don’t think it’s possible to take care of 19 children well. Especially is they have medical conditions. Will we as tax payers be left to pay the cost?? They sound a little crazy to me. It just reminds me of dogs having a litter of puppies. Not cute at all! But it’s a free country. “Hey mom, I just had baby #20″ As mom hangs up the phone and shakes her head!

Male Chauvinist And Proud Of It!

February 10th, 2010
12:07 pm

I think women should stop having babies when it becomes apparent that their slim, sexy bodies will not recover from the preggers fat. No husband should have to choose between the mother of his children and his hot, young, flexible secretary.

Sunny

February 10th, 2010
12:11 pm

There is no right or wrong answer to this question. Preeclampsia (and other health problems) can occur in the FIRST pregnancy of a young and otherwise “healthy” woman.

David S

February 10th, 2010
12:12 pm

From everything I have seen, these parents actually take full responsibility for every child they have. They are not on welfare. If they have taken any charity it has been that, not involuntarily forced thievery by the state on their behalf. They homeschool – not relying on the local government to steal from others on their behalf to educate their children. They pay for their own medical costs or insurance. They have utilized the entertainment industry to generate enough income for them and their children’s expenses. I don’t know if the husband has always been working in the voluntary private sector or for the government, but if the private sector, even more kudos.

When a stupid screwup by a doctor may have cost Sen. Murtha his life, and when doctors and their various screwups cost tens of thousands their lives every year, it is certainly inappropriate to turn to the conventional medical establishment for its thoughts on anything related to health and well-being. My great grandfather was one of 18 children. Many of them died of one thing or another, but it was not related to childbirth and great-grandma did fine.

So long as this couple continues pulling their own weight and not living parasitically off me and other members of the productive sector of society, let them have as many kids as they want. Their sense of responsibility is certainly not in question here.

Frankly, there are few in the remainder of society that actually take full responsibility for their own children. For the rest, even one is too many.

azgal

February 10th, 2010
12:22 pm

Jim Bob should sleep in the boys room! That would be the best birth control….

Sunny

February 10th, 2010
12:25 pm

I would also like to add to the conversation regarding how much time is spent with each child. Most of you must realize that neither of the Duggar’s work outside of the home so they are ALWAYS around and bonding with their children unlike most of us who commute 2 hours a day, work 2 hours a day, spend hours tending to activities and errands only to come home and pass out only to do it again the next day. Many people with one or two kids don’t spend ample time with their children. These people see their children and spend more quality time in ONE DAY than many do in an ENTIRE WEEK.

Magenta

February 10th, 2010
12:26 pm

Since the subject has come up, the religious philosophy for most who have super-large families is to raise up the children as devout believers, so as to allow their theology to become the rule of society. If you’ve never heard of the Quiverfull movement, Google it. It’s a lot more than just “have as many as God will allow.” Given what we’ve already seen of radical Islam, this strategy creeps me out, big-time.

BeeJay

February 10th, 2010
12:29 pm

Like other posters, I believe people to some extent can do what they want as long as it doesn’t present a burden to society. However, it’s difficult to believe that in an age where population has run amok and the earth’s limited resources are already becoming obvious that it is prudent and ethical to increase the population so greatly all by yourself. Certainly all the children here are precious, but there is a responsibility to being a citizen of the world and that includes care for the earth. It isn’t very caring for one couple to have 17 children, whether they can care for them financially or not. I also wonder like others as to the parents’ ability to parent them all. No doubt the kids take care of one another and the household, too. This is larger that some school classes. But that issue is where it is none of my business. Physically, it can’t be healthy for a woman to have a baby every 18 months. Her body is going to wear out, if it hasn’t already, and a worn-out body does not produce healthy babies. Are they so blind that they would willingly and knowingly sacrifice a child’s health because they can’t call it quits? 7 is one thing, a dozen is unthinkable, but 17 is really going way too far. We really wouldn’t put up with almost any other family doing this, but because they’re white, Americans, on TV, and apparently financially okay, we will put up with it. In China, they’re allowed one child. 17? Really? C’mon people.

JMS

February 10th, 2010
12:33 pm

If doctors think this is now becoming to risky for her, that she could die if she keeps going… then I think it is highly irresponsible for her to keep having children. What if she does die and leaves all these young children without a mother! I would hope she would get passed her obvious obsession with repopulating the United States with her offspring and know when enough is enough. When the risk to her is greater than the reward (the reward is being around to see these kids grow up and become successful adults) she should have enough common sense to stop and think about her family and not her insatiable need to keep popping out kids. Both her and her husband need to stop and take care of what they have, if she needs to have babies around, she most certainly will as already their are grandbabies on the scene. She is like a babyaholic….. Yes, I said it; anything done in excess is a problem! Drinking, drugs, eating, just because you pay your own way does not make it OK! Then again it is a free country and people are allowed to make stupid decisions, of which she would be a prime example if she is not already. Up till now one could think they are just a large loving family, however if this continues she will be just another loon vying for attention, or dead.

no excuses

February 10th, 2010
12:33 pm

I find this disturbing and grossly irresponsible.

Sheila

February 10th, 2010
12:36 pm

NO , Hell no they do not need more kids , quess who is paying for the one in the hospital , will continue to have health problems , I never see Michelle hug, kiss alll the kids , a pat on the head like good dog. She also can end up with health problems esp kidney disease , How is it that her uterus is not hanging out? Enough said , get them off TV , why so many reality shows?

DJ

February 10th, 2010
12:37 pm

This will catch up with Michelle’s health eventually. Human bodies are not designed to have this many babies. What is Jim and the children going to do when Michelle strokes out with her next pregnancy and either dies or becomes disabled?

JMS

February 10th, 2010
12:38 pm

Nicly put BJ! Apparrently you were in line in front of the Duggar’s when they were handing out common sense and I think they may have given their share to you!

LMartin

February 10th, 2010
12:39 pm

I believe a massive stroke or heart failure are in the cards for Michelle Duggar if she continues to compulsively reproduce. Then Jim Bob will look for another seed receptacle. Disgusting on too many levels to count.

Photius

February 10th, 2010
12:41 pm

Hey Michelle… Your womb is not a clown car!

ldr

February 10th, 2010
12:44 pm

The Lord made provide the children but he also gives common sense. Get a grip and use birthcontrol!

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
12:46 pm

@catlady…since you’re so willing to play the “what if they were” game..I’ve got one for you.

What if they were childless? Would you have a problem with a 43 year old childless woman, who by all measures has the ability to care for and provide for a baby, taking a calculated risk to have a child? I doubt it.

That’s the problem with your “what if” game. They are NOT what you posed in your hypothetical scenario any more than they are what I posed them to be in mine.

Given that, it would seem to me that we should err on the side of personal freedoms. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….The American Way, right?

If she wants to have 25 kids, I don’t care, they seem like genuinely good people who try successfully to do the right thing….and if they want to do their part to populate the world with a very large family who also exhibit good will, philanthropy, and charity to others, I’m fine with that..even if it does cost the taxpayers a little. Beats shelling out coin on a “bridge to nowhere” so that contractors can line their pockets.

JMS

February 10th, 2010
12:47 pm

I agree to a point with Davis S, I do not care how many kids she wants to have so long as I do not have to pay my tax payer dollars to support that choice, however after being told to continue is risky and she chooses to continue how do you defend that? What would all those kids do if she did die? I do not call that responsible, whether they are paying for it or not.

Ralph M.

February 10th, 2010
12:47 pm

Yes. They should never ever stop having children. Even if they hit 100. They should keep going.

Dar

February 10th, 2010
12:54 pm

I don’t know that I would consider tax deductions “welfare” inasmuch as they are a method dictated by the government to calculate your tax liability, which is not the same as simply a handout for doing nothing, but okay we can agree to disagree. I do agree that the EIC is 100% welfare and should be called such. If you are getting back the taxes you paid (or not paying any to begin with) PLUS some, then that “plus some” is a handout. My child is not in daycare and my house is paid for, so my only deductions are state income taxes, property taxes and charitable donations, and those are phased out nearly to zero if not all the way to zero, especially when the throw me into AMT. I do have an employer sponsored 401k and healthcare benefits and my pre-tax dollars are used for those so I guess I do get some sort of tax break off your backs and for that I thank you all for carrying my sorry butt in that manner.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
12:58 pm

@Dar..nice points. Tax deductions are really the government’s way to influence the populus. Why do we get a break for 401K, because the government wants to encourage citizens to save for their future. Home mortgage interest deductions, govt’s way of rewarding people to buy homes. personal exemptions….have children. The duggars are just doing wath the tax code and, by extension, legislators, and, by further extension, the society who elected those legislators what they deemed as important, moral, and good for the country.

BB

February 10th, 2010
1:00 pm

Do these people not realize there are other contraceptive methods? This many children is irresponsible, there is no way child #14 or whatever doesn’t feel lost in the shuffle. Sounds like Michelle is addicted to babies that are dependent on her. The world doesn’t need more spawn from these fundamentalist horndogs.

Momof2

February 10th, 2010
1:01 pm

We have to let the parents choose – otherwise we become China, where the one child rule exists.

sasha

February 10th, 2010
1:01 pm

Definitely NOT responsible—utterly pathetic as now it is the celebrity status they are casting toward!

Dr. Oz Child rearing expert

February 10th, 2010
1:03 pm

Just what are they trying to prove. God can bless them in other ways too.

Tarah

February 10th, 2010
1:05 pm

Michelle probably doesn’t need to worry about a massive stroke or heart failure. When you consider the health of her body, she naturally trends towards healthy blood vessels. If her medical team doesn;t overload her with fluids during labor and delivery, it seems like she’ll do well.
She has a lot of children but delegates to get things done efficientlyand usually speaks softly. So I don’t imagine her having a hypertensive stroke aside from gestational conditions such as preeclampsia.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
1:06 pm

@MOMof2…excellent point. For everyone who is an advocate of there being baby cops, be careful of the door you want to open then, never know how that might evolve into someone infringing on your rights. It’s all fun and games until someone tells you that they don’t like your perfectly legal activity and they want you take away your right to do it.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
1:08 pm

I never knew we had so many medical professionals in the blog….from guarantees to death “well before 50″ to how she is going to die. Amazing.

By the way, she’s 43 now, isn’t she “well before 50″ as we speak..how many more years do we have until she’s “close to 50″ and the “well before 50″ prediction is seen as inaccurate? Can’t be too long now.

Jeff in Roswell

February 10th, 2010
1:12 pm

How many is too many? There are no hard and fast rules. I don’t think the government nor anyone else has the right to tell them to stop. I don’t think it’s wise for her to continue from a health stand point, but it’s her choice – not ours.
People are all up in arms about this and for what? What percentage of American citizens have that many children? It’s miniscule! Just because it’s not mainstream, doesn’t make it wrong.

Cece175

February 10th, 2010
1:12 pm

My concern is the older kids do they really have a life doing things kids their age should be doing or have they grown up to be the babysitters? There is NO WAY she can possibly bond with all of the kids she has, they are stair-steps in age so you have potty training, diaper changing etc.. Who was responsible for all the kids while her Jim were in the hospital? Having babies after 40 is dangerous to both Mom and the new baby… the fact that they are willing to ignore that makes me wonder why they would ignore the advice they have been given… As for affording to take care of these kids I’m sure that they are getting paid well for the TV program…and unless they were independently wealthy to begin with they were getting assistance from somewhere

NANA

February 10th, 2010
1:17 pm

I didn’t get to read all of the comments but it is obvious to me that catlady knows nothing about these people. I hope and pray she doesn’t get pregnant again but it isn’t really any of my business. Those kids are darling, well rounded, well mannered, well educated (at least through high school)! And for God’s sake, let’s leave race out of this one, ok?

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
1:20 pm

Here’s a hypothetical question for everyone who is appalled by this. It would seem having 1-3 kids is ok…but 19 is definitely too much. Sound logic would suggest there must be a finite number you place between ok and too much. So what’s your number?

If you were ruler supreme, what cap would you put on citizens of the US that if they exceeded you would penalize them?

Oh..and a followup question…what would you like your dictatorship to be known as? A monarchy, czar, kingdom…well, you get the picture.

Wounded Warrior

February 10th, 2010
1:21 pm

I just have to say that she can run a nursery instead of spitting them out for many more years!! The oldest ones should be out going to college or starting their own family (like the oldest has a daughter). Just like the phrase from ‘Raised in Arizona’…they have “more than they can handle”. As long as they can provide for them, then they can have a 100 kids. Not my biz. Just when you start having 14 kids under 7 years…and on the taxpayer’s dime is when the public was outraged @ Octomom.

NANA

February 10th, 2010
1:21 pm

oh, i forgot to mention that they planned to have a large family and planned financially as well. The TV show isn’t their only income. JimBob is a business man. I would be shocked if I ever heard it confirmed that they ever took any government assistance. By the way, she homeschools! And yes, the older children help..they all are being taught responsibilities….OMG! Can you imagine children actually being taught responsibility. They have to work around the house and contribute.

Wounded Warrior

February 10th, 2010
1:24 pm

@ Tiger. That would be a czar, since that doesn’t need the congressional approval. Obama has a car czar, pay czar, why not kid czar? Great idea.

As many as you can pay for yourself is my answer. I have 2.

Steve

February 10th, 2010
1:24 pm

It’s time for them to stop. Has anyone thought they might be “hoarders”? Hoarders of children!

Dog Lady

February 10th, 2010
1:26 pm

Ms. C. Lady: I didn’t agree with your position until you pointed out that their children were taking up air that could better be used by others. That argument actually swayed me – and additionally I feel a little short of breath now too.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
1:27 pm

@WW…so what happens if I have one and am getting along fine then lose my income and can’t afford my child’s needs anymore? What should the czar do then?

Rachel

February 10th, 2010
1:34 pm

Catlady…you might want to reread your biology book on reproduction. A woman who is breastfeeding is more fertile than one who is not.

Boneyard Randy

February 10th, 2010
1:37 pm

Two is enough for any pig.

Aslinn

February 10th, 2010
1:38 pm

The Duggars know more about parenting than any of you people. To say anything about what you did catlady is mean and hateful. If you feel that way you should leave the country. Also I highly doubt you are religous, have any morals or values, and you probably don’t have any kids. Kids ARE a gift from God and they love God a lot which id more than I can say for SOME people (ahem,cough cough)

joseph

February 10th, 2010
1:41 pm

Even if they have private health insurance, we are all paying for all of the kids. As their children consume more health care and undergo more expensive medical proceedures, cost for all of us rise. If these kids are in public schools we are paying for them there, too.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
1:43 pm

@Joseph…from what I’ve read, they’re not in public school, but rather home schooled. Do you think they should get the property taxes they pay designated for the school district they reside in refunded to them?

RICK

February 10th, 2010
1:47 pm

Could they afford all these kids if they weren’t doing a TV show. The older kids are taking care of the younger ones while their making more. Idiots if you ask me.

Jeff in Roswell

February 10th, 2010
1:49 pm

Joseph, come on. Tell us how much our health insurance is going to go up with the Duggars all being insured?

cld

February 10th, 2010
1:52 pm

@joseph, Despite the youngest being in the NICU (and PLENTY of people have babies in the NICU – not just mass producers), I would venture to say that the Duggars probably are healthier and have lower healthcare bills than most Americans. I mean, they actually eat real (read: not fast) food and get physical activity!

joe suggs

February 10th, 2010
1:52 pm

The woman is sick in the head.The only time she is happy is when she is pregnant.The world is overpopulated now because of nuts like her.

the Squad

February 10th, 2010
1:53 pm

really who cares how many kids they have if they can pay for it? get real folks.

kennecott

February 10th, 2010
1:53 pm

These people should be fixed.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
1:55 pm

@cld…good point.

I’m willing to bet that 15 healthy kids cost less annually than let’s say 1 kid with cerebral palsy. Since this really seems more like an economic affront to most than a moral one, let abolish health insurance altogether and make all people pay as they go for whatever they need. If you have 15 healthy kids, you’re golden…if you’re unfortunate to have a sick one, well…sorry, but you should have made sure you could afford to have a kid..even a sick one and if you didn’t see it coming, well that was just bad planning on your part.

Mickey

February 10th, 2010
1:58 pm

CATLADY=== needs some D****K

NANA

February 10th, 2010
2:00 pm

IT AMAZES ME HOW JUDGEMENTAL EVERYONE IS OF THESE PEOPLE…THE COMMENT, “THEY ARE TAKING UP SPACE AND AIR BETTER SERVED FOR SOMEONE ELSE” GOOD GRIEF. GIVE US ALL A BREAK…THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF FAMILIES ON WELFARE THAT KEEP POPPING CHILDREN INTO THE WORLD AND TO EVEN COMPARE THIS FAMILY TO THEM IS ABSURD. THEY LIVE, LOVE, AND WORK…THEY ARE NOT CRIMINALS AND I AM SURE THAT IF ANY ONE OF THE SHOULD CHOOSE TO ATTEND COLLEGE, THE PARENTS WOULD BE HAPPY TO PAY FOR THEM TO DO SO. RICK, HAVE YOU EVER WATCHED THE SHOW? THESE PARENTS SPEND LLLOOOOTTTSSS OF TIME WITH ALL THE CHILDREN. THEY ARE KIND LOVING AND YES, GOD LOVING PARENTS. IT IS NONE OR OUR BUSINESS HOW MANY THEY CHOOSE TO HAVE BECAUSE THEY ARE SUPPORTING THEMSELVES. PERIOD! AND WHAT IF THEY WERE GOING TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS…THEY PAY TAXES, THEY HAVE JUST AS MUCH RIGHT AS THE NEXT ONE. I BET IF THEY WERE IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS THEIR LUNCHES WOULDN’T BE GOVERNMENT PROVIDED AND THEY WOULDN’T BE A DISCIPLINE PROBLEM. COME ON PEOPLE…REALLY…

Wounded Warrior

February 10th, 2010
2:00 pm

@ Tiger, like any good gov’t employee. Have congressional hearings and then appoint a blue ribbon panal. Not to mention the have the follow up convention in Hollywood, Ca (like the DeKalb educrats did last weekend). Must waste as much tax payers money as possible. Or simply become disabled, and then receive disability.

Tami

February 10th, 2010
2:05 pm

This is a hard one to voice an opinion on. However, I’ll attempt it. Michelle & Jim Bob are experienced parents, and if they want to continue to have children, no one should interfere with that right. And, no one should compare them to the “Octomom” as there are two parents involved here, and they can provide for the children. The older ones are entering or have entered the age of consent and can support themselves if need be. With the circumstances leading to #19 Josie’s premature birth, all of this started when Michelle had kidney or gall stones. She has not had any health problems related to her pregnancy before now. This does lead one to think that maybe she should either end her childbearing or come to a decision of when/where she will stop considering her age. Who knows…maybe she won’t have any other health issues & can keep bearing kids…or not. But, it isn’t for us to say or decide.

GHOSTRIDER

February 10th, 2010
2:06 pm

So let see, If I’m not mistaking, while they are still popping out kids like what every 10-12 months, their older kids are having them to. Dont they have 2 grandchildren. Their grandchildren are going to be older then there younger kids. What a bunch of morons.

fer

February 10th, 2010
2:12 pm

I think that if they’re trying to make a point, they’ve made it. They can quit now!

JATL

February 10th, 2010
2:16 pm

@Tiger -I believe in replacing yourself, so 2 for a family of 2 parents. I don’t have a problem until people go over 5. I think 5 is the upper limit of reason and sanity as well as how many you’re able to bestow quality attention upon. Of course people have different priorities -I want my children to receive a great education, spend lots of quality time with their parents, and I want to be able to take them on trips and offer them a lot more than a backwoods homeschool, religious fundamentalism and a creed to breed. Overpopulation of this planet IS a problem, and more people need to curb the breeding. Again, I just think the Duggars are dumb -for several reasons, and I particularly hate to see dumb folks breeding like rats.

fer

February 10th, 2010
2:17 pm

Rachel, you’re the one who needs to get updated info on breastfeeding and fertility.

Aubrey

February 10th, 2010
2:19 pm

Wow @catlady. So having a child and taking a tax deduction means I’m on welfare. Last I checked I give 40% of MY hard earned income to the government. Now I feel so guilty that they give me a percentage of a 2000 dollar deduction back to me…

Aubrey

February 10th, 2010
2:22 pm

Rachel, I hate to admit it but catlady is closer to correct on this one. BUT just so you both are aware, Breastfeeding can be considered a safe and reliable contraception method IF you are breastfeeding exclusively. In addition, no two feedings can exceed more than 2.5 hours apart. So if you are EB but your child sleeps through the night than it is not an effective form of contraception. It has to do with things released in your body during each individual act of nursing your child.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
2:22 pm

@JATL…so if Bill Gates had 10 kids and they all went to Ivy League schools, spent lots of time with them and showed them the world, and were generally productive members of society you’d still think he was doing the world a disservice in overpopulating the world, right? Would you also assume that he was dumb?

Shastagirl

February 10th, 2010
2:25 pm

I really enjoy watching and following the lives of The Duggars. They are lovely GOD fearing people and really MORE people should have their morals. The kids seem to be real rounded / happy / and loved by all of the family. Tax Dollars are not paying for The Duggars life style – they provide for their own – unlike ALOT of people that each of us may know or work with in our own lives.

Tami

February 10th, 2010
2:26 pm

@Ghostrider: The Duggars only have one grandchild, Mackynzie. She was born to eldest son Josh & his wife Anna (both 21) this past October, I believe. They have 19 kids, but I believe the last 7 children are under the age of 10. I have to go back to their site to verify that for sure. No other Duggar children among the eldest are married or are expecting.

Margaret

February 10th, 2010
2:26 pm

Had two children 14 months apart and I was breastfeeding. don’t count on that being a deterent. Also, when they are looking after the newest, family members moved in and helped as well as the oldest son and his family. I can’t imagine having that many children but that is their choice. I do hope they will wait until the health of the baby is stabilized.
I never did figure out how the black woman fit into the comments???

I Use To Watch The Show

February 10th, 2010
2:40 pm

It was very interesting as to how they were able to keep everything going & orderly, but the older kids help alot. I can’t knock them for how many kids they want to have, but having a baby at any age is dangerous & then as a woman gets older there are a lot of risks & you don’t want to be responsible for having a baby with medical problems that will have to be taken care of the rest of his/her life when the Mom & Dad are both gone. It’s a sad situation, but my hat goes off to them both.

FCM

February 10th, 2010
2:41 pm

Jane: “You’re saying that if she doesn’t breastfeed each child for 12 months shes a bad mother? I couldn’t (and didn’t) breastfeed my children, but I’m far from a bad mother.” Well what do you know we found something in common. I don’t think nursing a child makes you a good mom either. A good Mom does feed and cuddle her baby. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you did that and not just leave your baby with a bottle and walk away. I never let mine have a bottle in the crib either.

Magenta & MJG– that Quiverful thing is based on the “Go forth and multiply.” verse in the Bible. It was not said to populate earth so much (I believe) as to tell families to increase the fold that the children would be brought up to believe in the Monotheastic (sp?) faith of Abraham. Abraham was a great teacher, with one of the few stops on a well traveled road. He would invite travelers to stop and rest then engage them in talk, in order to teach them his faith. (See Rabbi Kushner’s writings for where I came up with this).

lakerat I agree with you. As long as it does not encroach on another’s rights, or a tax payers dollar then it is their business how many they have. From what I understand the kids are all well adjusted.

catla

Joe

February 10th, 2010
2:45 pm

I from a family of 7 and my wife is from a family of 8. We currently have 7 children and I love them all very much. We are a single income family and we are not on any government programs.
I can’t believe some people. They say it is morally wrong to have so many kids, they say you can’t afford to have a big family in today’s world; they say it is a burden on the taxpayers.
Morally wrong? I will tell you what is a morally wrong, a person denying someone to have the opportunity to live, to have a chance at life. But you just want to squash that life out just like a bug. These people make me sick.
Can’t afford a big family? I have heard people say this all the time, but what they mean is they are not going to give up their lifestyle to have children. They don’t want to give up their “toys” or they just want to spoil 1 or 2 kids (creating young people and finally adults that are more selfish than their parents, catlady seems to be a good example of this). If people weren’t so selfish and just bought what they needed, they could afford a big family.
Burden on the Taxpayers? Let’s take a look at that. Yes families get tax breaks for the larger families they have (I think it is $1000 child tax credit each year during tax time). But let’s look at the big picture. The children we have will become productive members of society paying taxes (If they are raised to be responsible and not so self-centered). Look at the problem we are faced with in the coming future with Social Security. We will have more people on SS than we will have paying into it. How did this happen? People became so selfish, they only care about their own lives and care nothing about the future. Not wanting to have children. Those people are the ones who are the real burden on taxpayers. Who will be paying for their Social Security/Medicare? Not their children because they had none. And for those of you who don’t think that’s the way Social Security and Medicare works, think again. All that money we have put into those programs for all those years is not being invested for our retirement, its paying for those who are currently in retirement.
Get a clue people; Big families is not the problem, they are our future.

FCM

February 10th, 2010
2:46 pm

catlady forgive me but I am wondering if your own daughter’s difficult pregnancy is understandably skewing your view on this.

Tiger – hi there! I am pretty much on the bench cheering you on!

Shastagirl

February 10th, 2010
2:51 pm

I agree with you Joe!

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
2:52 pm

@Joe…you just exemplified why people should be defending the rights of the Duggars to have as many kids as they want. It would be pretty hypocritical to take offense to you implying that they “don’t want to give up their “toys” or they just want to spoil 1 or 2 kids (creating young people and finally adults that are more selfish than they are)” and then turn around and call you an idiot for having 7 kids.

For the record, I am offended that you would slam on me for MY personal choice and you’ve demonstrated that you’re no different than anyone here for expressing their distaste for your decision to have a large family.

Jeff in ATL

February 10th, 2010
2:55 pm

@Catlady, et al. “NO federal or state aid at all? Of course not.”

Maybe no federal or state aid, but claiming 18 dependents sure makes the tax returns pretty sweet. They definitely get more back from [at least the federal] government than they pay in.

Jeff in Roswell

February 10th, 2010
2:57 pm

JATL – gosh, I guess the Duggars have made many mistakes… you know being so dumb and all. I would venture one of the bigger mistakes is not consulting you on how you feel they should live THEIR lives.

Righteous and Judgemental – does that describe you accurately?

Hey, Jeff in ATL...

February 10th, 2010
2:59 pm

…obviously you are not an tax account, or financial wizard – “They definitely get more back from [at least the federal] government than they pay in”.

Care to expand on this statement?

Hey, Jeff in ATL...

February 10th, 2010
3:00 pm

My bad – that should say “Tax accountant”….

Marinemom

February 10th, 2010
3:13 pm

I would have to say that it’s up to them if they continue to have more children. I would hope that her doctor would say enough is enough. This new little baby will hopefully be ok and not have any lasting health issues. If this child ends up with medical and mental issues, they will have to do more for this child, I don’t know if their other children will be able to handle, could be wrong, the pressure of taking care of a special needs child. This may be God’s way of saying no more.

Jeff in ATL

February 10th, 2010
3:16 pm

I’ve seen the show. Dude owns commercial real estate and rents it out. Probably an s-corp or LLC? Pays payroll taxes, sure. Pays FICA, sure. Claims 18+ dependents on his taxes? Yeah. I don’t have any kids, but they’re worth something at the end of the year. They probably have, what, 20 exemptions? That’s worth $73,000 or abouts. I would be shocked, shocked I tell you, if they have to pay in at the end of the year.

Nora

February 10th, 2010
3:17 pm

@catlady:

1. I became pregnant while exclusively breastfeed AND using barrier contraceptives. Does that make me a bad mother?

2. The Duggars are not dependent on any state or federal aid. They are not on the “public dime” at all. They are entirely debt free and self sufficient. They have done nothing “unfair” to you or any other taxpayer. In fact you could even go so far as to say that their children will grow up to earn money and spend money – therefore contributing to society.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
3:23 pm

@Jeff in ATL…why would he put commercial real estate in an S-corp? Any CPA worth his mud would tell him that you NEVER place appreciating property in an S-corp.

Uh-oh…did I just tip my hat as to what three initials follow my name in professional circuits?

motherjanegoose

February 10th, 2010
3:25 pm

@Jeff in Atlanta, I am not an accountant either but I believe Neal Bootrz has spoken about this:

The Child Tax Credit (CTC) is a federal tax credit for low and moderate income families with dependent children under age 17. The purpose of the Child Tax Credit is to lower the tax burden of families who are raising children. The maximum CTC is $1000 per qualifying child.

( t me, that is 18 times $1000= $18,000 but then again, I am not an accountant! oh maybe 17 as one child is now married) .

The Child Tax Credit is a nonrefundable credit, meaning that the amount of the credit is limited to the amount of taxes a family owes. Families who do not pay any taxes, or whose CTC is more than they owe in taxes, cannot get the full credit.

Families who cannot get the full Child Tax Credit may be eligible for the Additional Child Tax Credit (ACTC). The Additional Child Tax Credit is a refundable tax credit that allows families who don’t owe any taxes, or owe less than their CTC amount, to get a refund payment from the government

Not sure if the Duggars are on the income scale for this.

I thought there would be more medical views today ….hmmm.

I DO NOT care how many kids they have. I simply cannot imagine spending ample time with each child when you have that many. That is just MY opinion.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
3:25 pm

@jeff in ATL..so if they’re getting income from the flow through entities to let’s say the tune of $150K on their K-1’s and TLC (or whatever channel is sponsoring them) gives them a 1099 to the tune of $250K per year, where exactly are they getting the other $300K or so in deductions and credits to eliminate any tax liability?

Jeff in ATL

February 10th, 2010
3:30 pm

Imma let ya finish, but I’m just sayin it’s darn likely w/ that many dependents dude gets a big big check from the feds at the end of the year, no?

My whole entire point was that yeah, they may not get welfare or living off the dole, but they probably get a FAT refund check around this time of year solely because of the number of kids.

As a society we don’t see the families who get FAT tax returns every year as living off the dole, but what is it when they get every dime in federal taxes they paid through the year, and then some? Being lucky?

say what?

February 10th, 2010
3:30 pm

Problems arise when a woman is pregnant more times than her body is not pregnant. The body goes through a variety of challenges during pregnancy, your eye sight changes, hormonal changes affect taste, muscle tone, bladder and kidney functions, etc. Many many years ago when I worked at DFACS, I interviewed a lady who failed to follow doctor’s recommendation NOT to have another baby after #17 due to hormonal changes, and unfortunately she ended up losing her sight permanently. Carrying and birthing children is a life threatening event for women but we seem to forget that the body does not want a foreign body (the baby) in it and tries to make the body as inhospitable as it can. People who are willing to subject themselves to these increased risks, should do so and not look for anyone to help them when things go wrong.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
3:30 pm

@MJG…in all likelihood the Duggars get NO CTC because their is an AGI phase out that begins at $110K AGI for those filing a joint return. The phase out completely eliminates the CTC when the AGI reaches $130K. I think its a VERY safe bet to assume that the Duggars AGI (remember this is all income, not taxable income after deductions) is in excess of $130K and they go NO CTC benefit.

Jeff in ATL

February 10th, 2010
3:32 pm

@motherjanegoose: that’s just the CTC, what about all the dough for each dependent?

JATL

February 10th, 2010
3:33 pm

@Tiger -yes, I would think Bill Gates was doing us and the earth a disservice AND I would certainly think he was dumb! There’s a difference between academic intelligence and common sense. Anyone electing to have this many kids is S-T-U-P-I-D!

@Jeff in Roswell -not overly self-righteous or judgmental -certainly not any more than you! Of course this is an OPINION blog, and my opinion is that these people are dumb, overpopulating religious nuts who need to shut down the baby factory.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
3:33 pm

@Jeff in ATL..I would disagree with you Jeff. I bet they have a VERY good CPA who does a tax plan for them every year and makes sure that they make estimated tax payments that roughly equal their tax liability, therefore reducing, if not eliminating, the amount of their tax refund. Putting in a bunch of money just to get a refund is what unsofisticated taxpayers do. If this guy holds commercial properties and has a TV contract, I doubt he (or his CPA) does his return at the end of the year wondering what the end result is going to be.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
3:34 pm

did I just spell unsophisticated with an “f”…..I’ve got to go hide under a rock for a while!

Way

February 10th, 2010
3:37 pm

I admire them. Their kids seem to be very well raised and there seems to be a lot of love in the family. They should serve as an example to many dysfunctional american families with spoiled kids in $100 sneakers and $200 jeans who have all the entitelment in the world and have no idea what responsibility is.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
3:38 pm

@JATL…so if he has 5, you’ll still hold out hope that he’s smart because he has the sames goals for his children as you outlined, but the minute the 6th is born, he’s stupid. Interesting. I didn’t know intelligence was that malleable.

Jeff in ATL

February 10th, 2010
3:39 pm

“estimated tax payments that roughly equal their tax liability”

It is possible for people to have a “negative” tax liability, isn’t it? Say throughout the year they pay in $8,000 (over 24 or 26 paychecks) then at the end of the year get more than $8,000 back after filing a return?

Mitsy

February 10th, 2010
3:40 pm

The Duggar’s are not on public assistance but they could not possibly afford to feed/clothe all those children if they didn’t have the TLC show. In other words, Jim Bob is making money off his cash cow which is Michelle. I believe that they would likely be in the poor house had it not been for the TV show. You can’t spend $3,000 a month for groceries alone on what he’s taking in on rental property monies. They should have quit having kids about 6 kids ago. Michelle cannot parent or mother that many children and she simply doesn’t because the older Duggar girls are raising the younger ones. That’s totally unfair to them and unfair to the toddlers who never really get to bond with their Mom. Jim Bob needs to learn to abstain if they won’t use birth control. The family is a train wreck and they are not role models for society. Most Christians do not think they are the poster family for Christian values. They are actually pretty ignorant and pathetic.

MomsRule

February 10th, 2010
3:40 pm

@Tiger – hehehe! thanks for the giggle. ;-)

TallaDawg92

February 10th, 2010
3:42 pm

Many people on here worry about mooching or being on the public dime, and approve as long as the Duggers can “afford” all of the kids. The environmental impact of 19 kids IS mooching off of future generations. Whatever the number, there is a finite number of people that the earth will support. We as humans no longer need to populate the earth from the Biblical perspective. It is time we cared for the earth that God gave us as a home.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
3:42 pm

@Jeff in ATL…that typically only happens for low income folks who qualify for refundable tax credits. There are a litany of credits that are eliminated once your AGI gets to a certain level, and it’s not extraordinarily high….a two income family make $60K each will are seeing the reductions in credits. It’s possible, but I think with the income they are likely making, in my professional opinion as a CPA with tax experience, it’s highly unlikely that the Duggars are getting that deal.

Jeff

February 10th, 2010
3:43 pm

Mitsy. why does JimBob need to be the one to abstain?

motherjanegoose

February 10th, 2010
3:44 pm

@ tiger…that’s it…I am flying out to Colorado to have lunch with YOU and to discuss MY taxes….LOL. Can I afford you?

Yes, I am sure they make too much money but is it not true there are those ( with large families) who get back more than they pay due to the things I mentioned?

LOL…my accountant keeps telling me she is moving to Utah, with her daughter and I tell her that I WILL find her.

I am not trying to rile up the homeschool parents, I am not an advocate of homeschooling but again that is just me. I have spent over 25 years with kids in school buildings and that is what I do.

HOW do you homeschool say 12 out of 18 kids at one time. To me, this is like making lasagne, grits, a wedding cake, minestrone, and canning pickles all at the same time.

I worked with almost 300 four-six year olds today but we were all doing the same thing at the same time.

I’LL ADMIT THAT I AM NOT INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO TEACH PHONICS, MULTIPLICATION TABLES, MEMORIZING THE CAPITALS OF ALL THE STATES, CURSIVE HANDWRITING, LATIN, BIOLOGY, CALCULUS AND ECONOMICS TO MY KIDS IN AN EFFECTIVE MANNER.

My hat is off to any homeschooling parent who is able to do a bang up job on this…I mean it!

MomsRule

February 10th, 2010
3:44 pm

@Mitsy, I’m curious, how do you know what they are making on their rental properties? Has it been mentioned on the show or something?

Jeff in ATL

February 10th, 2010
3:46 pm

“in my professional opinion as a CPA with tax experience, it’s highly unlikely that the Duggars are getting that deal.”

Unless they have a CPA better than you, then they might be, eh? ;)

M1chelle

February 10th, 2010
3:48 pm

Sorry to hear about your sister Becky. I agree totally. This doesn’t apply to the Duggars, but it is unfair that there are honest, hard-working people who make minimum wage and then there’s people who cheat the sytstem and get free food, money, healthcare, and subsidized living. You know that Section 8 is not what it used to be – crowded apartements. People can rent very nice homes on Section 8 nowadays and pay very little in rent.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
3:49 pm

@MJG…sure it’s true…but unless I’m mistaken, the shot was taken at the Duggars, not the general public. :-) Plus, blaming anyone for taking advantage of the tax law in every legal means possible is just silly. Hate the game, not the players.

How many of you drive 55 because it’s better for the environment? I’m betting you drive 75 because that’s the legal limit.

And if you’re not paying more than you legally have to for taxes, it’s pretty hypocritical to slam on those who also take full legal advantage of the tax laws as they stand.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
3:51 pm

@Jeff in ATL…I know people who are tax cheats…lots of them. the Duggars don’t fit the mold. I could be wrong, but i bet they do whatever is legally afforded them, and not a penny more.

Kitty

February 10th, 2010
3:51 pm

s – I’m sorry, but your comments made me laugh out loud! I’ve often wondered what thrill is left for him because he probably just falls in …

There will be no early menopause for Michelle; the more times you are pregnant the later your menopause begins, since the nine months you are pregnant you aren’t releasing eggs, so your supply lasts longer and your menopause is delayed.

I feel less animosity toward the Duggars because they take financial responsibility for their own and do seem caring and loving – although I agree with all the posters that wonder how they can bond individually with every single child. I also think that those who feel the older children might resent having to take care of the younger children haven’t considered that, in most situations where this happens, there is resentment because the older children are forced into this involuntary servitude and the families are not loving and economically sound – which in my opinion makes a huge difference in their attitude toward their forced slavery.

The Duggars have been uncommonly lucky so far with the births of 18 healthy children. My college roommate got pregnant with her third child too soon after her second was born; her son was delivered prematurely because her uterus wasn’t strong enough to hold him in; he spent many months in the NICU, and still has permanent neurological issues in adulthood. I would like to think that they would not take a chance on having another preemie after this experience, but something tells me that that would not be part of their plan.

I feel nothing but contempt for the Gosselins and OctoMom, who are milking their families for all they are worth. I saw a news piece on OctoMom the other day, and it was appallingly clear that she had had some serious plastic surgery on her midsection, and she was made up, with false eyelashes no less – for the piece. And Kate Gosselin – with her new hair extensions – is an egomaniac of the first order. Both of these women seem to have no compunction about accepting both anonymous, and taxpayer, financial assistance to maintain their images. In their cases, it’s not at all about their kids. Disgusting.

anon

February 10th, 2010
3:53 pm

Anyone that believes a higher power tells them to have as many kids as possible is out of their mind. And it’s for this reason that they should not be allowed to have ANY kids and spread their lunacy.

Over population much? People should have to pass a sanity test and get a license in order to breed. These people would not pass the test…

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
3:54 pm

Let’s also not discount another difference between the Duggars and Octomom and Gosselins. From what I can tell, the Duggars aren’t going to extraordinary measures to conceive, whereas there was lots of fertility help with those other two. the duggars are all natural, from what I can tell. Not relying on medical assistance to conceive should count for something in the compare and contrast between the Octomom, Gosselins and Duggars.

motherjanegoose

February 10th, 2010
3:55 pm

@ tiger….I almost always drive too fast….GUILTY!

BUT 2 tickets for me ( since I got my license in 1975)…one in Ohio and one in Iowa….going 63 in a 55 on a farm road. Considering how many miles I cover in metro Atlanta each week, it is laughable.
Both tickets were in RED rental cars and while it is my favorite color….I would not drive one if it was given to me!

Single Mom in ATL

February 10th, 2010
4:05 pm

I don’t think that God wants anyone to be irresponsible. That’s what they are being at this point.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
4:07 pm

@MJG and Jeff and ATL…assuming that the Duggars are on the up and up with their taxes, this year when you do yours and your refund is $2000, when you write the IRS and tell them, “just send me a grand and keep the change”, THEN you can make the tax benefit argument to me and I won’t call BS on you.

If you think about it, they’re a living example of the conservative right philosophy. Lower taxes and spend money in the community. You should be happy if they’re not spending money on taxes because that is more money going directly to your local supermarket, mechanic, and charitable organizations that would otherwise be going to the govt.

JATL

February 10th, 2010
4:29 pm

@Tiger -you have to draw the line somewhere. If you have 5 kids and don’t get “fixed” or use a damn good form of birth control to prevent more, then YES, you’re irresponsible! I think 5 is too many, but it’s not in the realm of complete craziness like these fools.

cld

February 10th, 2010
4:32 pm

I can’t even follow all the tax back-and-forth discussion, but I am impressed by Tiger this afternoon.

The derogatory comment from Jeff about whether the Duggars would owe or get a refund at the end of the year . . . really has nothing to do with total tax obligation. Their total annual taxes could be $20,000 with a $1,000 refund, or it could be $30,000 with them owing $1,000. Who are we to care? As long as they settle up with the IRS and are getting their quarterly estimats close enough (I understand you’re obligated to be off by no more than 10% at the end of any given quarter), then what do I care whether they withheld more, less or exactly the same as their total due?

Two things are certain in this country. Taxes and death. If you’re making money, you’re paying taxes. If the government says they don’t have to pay taxes on $XXX of their income because they have XX dependents, then we can’t judge the family for that – it’s the government’s rule.

I do find it funny that most of the discussion has been about anything but medicine . . .

cld

February 10th, 2010
4:33 pm

*estimats should have been estimates.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
4:37 pm

@JATL….I think you should restate your sentence..

Instead of “you have to draw the line somewhere”

You should say

“I have to draw the line somewhere”

that’s kind of my point. You can have your opinion for what YOU think is right for YOU. But when you project your opinion on others, then you’re getting into dangerous territory.

I have one kid..he’s all I want. I’m happy with him and my family. I have caught UNGODLY grief from those with two and more kids because I made the decision to not give my kid a sibling (or more). But it’s right for me, just like 2 is right for you, and the Duggars feel that 19 is right for them.

You would be up in arms if I told you, I have one, and you, JATL, are STUPID for having more than that. You are STUPID for replacing you and your wife with two of your own in the midst of a population explosion. You are STUPID for spreading your resources among two kids when one could get more of them. Basically, you are STUPID because you decided what is right for you is different than what I feel is right for everyone.

I just can’t go there, and I will vehemently oppose those who do.

Jeff in Roswell

February 10th, 2010
4:37 pm

Yeah Tiger! JATL said the limit should be 5 kids and gosh darn it all – people should listen! JATL has thought about this long and hard and 5 kids seems about right to her/him so 5 kids should be the right amount for everybody. Okay, how do we get this made into law? Let’s get er dun!

motherjanegoose

February 10th, 2010
4:40 pm

@tiger…not sure I’ve ever gotten a $2000 refund. I play things pretty close and pay estimated.
We are usually plus or minus $500 to $1000. I like to keep my money all year instead of getting a fat check….LOL. I prefer to pay what I owe.

We did get a $2 refund once and signed the return to tell the IRS to KEEP IT as it would take more than $2 to process, stamp and deliver it. Of course, we got it back! LOL

I would never argue with you on this one tiger, if you are into numbers, you have my respect…I hate numbers….hahaha! My accountant tells me I am organized but it is a job I hate to do.

DB

February 10th, 2010
4:41 pm

I think it’s interesting that so many people are predicting that Michelle will have health problems, yada-yada-yada, if she “keeps it up.”

Consider this: Michelle may just be one of those people who were born to be a prolific mother. It’s a “gift”, if you will. Those who have had problem pregnancies, etc., may not be able to identify, by obviously, being pregnant and having children is something that Michelle obviously excels at — just like an Olympic runner, or a talented artist.

She has been fortunate that she and her husband have been able to fully enjoy her gift. Her children are being raised differently than perhaps you or I would have – but different is not necessarily badly. It’s just DIFFERENT. Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with children being raised to understand what it is to be needed, to have work that needs to be done, and to have responsibilities to those around us. In fact, it’s only been in this last century when “child-centered” families have burgeoned – where children were coddled and helicoptered to the point where so many children these days are depressed, suffer from lack of self-esteem, etc. I’m better that the Dugger children don’t suffer from depression or lack of self-esteem — they know they are vital parts to their family, and they have useful work to do that helps them develop the confidence to deal with the world. AND, they are not seen as a “financial drain” on their family, as so many children are these days. How many children grow up these days aware of how much they are costing their parents — because the parents are constantly telling them? Would being constantly told that you are a cost, not an asset, be a contributing factor to many kids’ feelings of being disconnected to the world?

Just thinkin’ outloud, here . . .

motherjanegoose

February 10th, 2010
4:43 pm

@ cld…me too about the medical aspect…where is HB…she is usually the topic police ( on me) when I veer off course and I plainly stated this morning:

Since you want to focus on the medical aspect and I have no verifiable comment here, I will pass and be interested in the medical aspects others share.

Now, things are up for grabs!

BTW where is our friend Julia? Hope she is o.k.!!!!

Jeff in Roswell

February 10th, 2010
4:46 pm

DB, I’ve been thinking the same thing. Maybe the Duggars are exceptional parents. Maybe, like you said, pregnancies are easy for her. Why do people have to begrudge them? I just don’t get it.

Becky

February 10th, 2010
4:47 pm

Wow, I’m glad that my Mother didn’t stop at 5 kids, if she had of, my sweet little self would not be on this blog yaking..

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
4:50 pm

Now keeping in mind all my rants defending the Duggars for their right to make the decision to have 19 kids…I think they’re crazy as sh*t for actually doing it! ;-)

But I’ll defend with my life their rights to! ;-)

motherjanegoose

February 10th, 2010
4:57 pm

@ DB…your points are good ones.

I, for one, would go LOONEY TUNES if I thought I would have to be a ( stay at home) mother to 18 kids, or even 6. I love my 2 kids but there is more to my life than cleaning, cooking, laundry and homeschooling.

My sister tells me that her neighbor has 10 kids ( right now). Her takes is that you have to be hyper organized ( as in the Duggars) or totally LAID BACK ( as in her neighbor).

I remember having a neighbor once who had 6 (now 7) kids. I watched them stroll down the street
( one hot summer day) in our neighborhood ( or should I saw them stroll all over the street….not like ducks in a row). I walked out and chatted with them mom and asked her where they were going on such a hot day. Her answer was a walk to the gas station….about a block out of our then neighborhood to get some candy.

I WOULD NEVER WALK TO THE GAS STATION TO GET CANDY WITH SIX KIDS but I have never been cooped up in a 3 bedroom house with 6 kids all day either!

I am just sayin…..

Becky

February 10th, 2010
5:03 pm

@M1chelle..Thanks for your comment..Ths sad part is that she has been given numerous (sp) chances to get clean and sober, she doesn’t want to..Then she calls me crying and all upset because her bio grandchildren do not like her and call me and my husband Nanny and Poppy..Like Tiger, IMO, they can have as many as they want, it just isn’t my thing..

Susan

February 10th, 2010
5:09 pm

The Duggars are doing a wonderful job raising their children to be kind, respectful and loving. Love watching their show. I agree that children are a blessing. I also believe Mothers are a blessing to their children. I hope and pray Jim Bob will consider a surgery to avoid future pregnancies. I don’t believe Michelle has the heart to stop and Jim Bob says he leaves it up to her. However, God gave man the responsibility to do what is best for the family. I pray that Jim Bob will seek wisdom. Michelle is the heart of the family and the show and it would be terribly difficult on everyone if her life is given up while trying to have a 20th baby. On scripture that comes to mind is “learn to be content in the state you are in”…Jim Bob, you are now the father of 19, please learn to be content with that. Your family will be open to many, many other blessings. I am praying for Josie.

Olivia

February 10th, 2010
5:25 pm

Call it something else but reponsable choice is not. These parents seem they are a little selfish and hide their egocentric actitude behind a religious precept: might be sign of a deep cognitive disonance or other mental problem. Definitively not a role model to follow. I doubt they have in mind their children’s welfare. I am not talking about money nor food and clothing. A child needs real parents not proxies. Older siblings are not a good substitute for parents and older siblings tend to resent this early role. With 19 siblings and work, how much time can they allocate to each child daily to have a meaningful impact on his/her life? Let alone the minimum attention to the individual development(which changes with age) and preferences (e.g., soccer practices, music lessons, etc). Few studies have shown that kids who grow interacting more with other kids(siblings or not) and less with adults have learnign and behavioral problems at school or work. Children compete among themselves for parents attention/time and are very sensitive to their presence, quality or absence.

On top of the mother’s health concerns, in large families with little spacing among births, younger siblings tend to have lower IQs and more health problems in the long run. These undisirable features increase exponentially with the child’s birth order: the higher the birth order (i.e., the younger the child relative to siblings) the lower the IQ and the higher the rates of chronic or behavioral diseases in adulthood. And kids with lower IQs have lower productivity so their contribution to society (including Social security) would be limited. If you add the increasing college tuition costs, the prospects not only for the younger but for all kids are narrower. I hope I am wrong but I would be really surprised if even half of their kids will finish college. So far everyhting indicates they will not and as parents they should be concerned and had been more altruistic with their older kids by surrending their desires for more sometime ago. Imagine if more families follow thier role model, without more or better schools/teachers and without cheaper college tuitions in one generation the USA IQ and productivity would suffer a tremendous blow.

Gwen

February 10th, 2010
5:43 pm

They’re both just going to wait until it kills Michelle and then they’ll have no more.

JATL

February 10th, 2010
6:01 pm

@Tiger -the amount of kids they have isn’t the only reason I find them stupid. The fact that they’re part of the quiverful movement and think God wants them to have all of these kids, homeschool all of them and are, in general, not on the brightest end of the stick if you’ve ever watched the show -THOSE are all reasons I think they’re STUPID, and of course one or two kids if you can afford them isn’t stupid -you can show them plenty of love and attention, neither of them has to be responsible for the other’s care, and perhaps they may get something that’s not from Goodwill once in awhile. I’m not all for material possessions and spoiling kids -mine have plenty of yardsale and consignment sale stuff -but to always have to buy used and only get to take vacations because TLC foots the bill -that’s pathetic. I really think stupidity should be painful, then the Duggars would be in so much agony they wouldn’t be able to reproduce!

Ginger

February 10th, 2010
6:03 pm

No wonder she gets so happy when she has the girls!! The good lord keeps him away for 80 days after!! By now she should be better at knowing when she is ovulating! Have a rest my dear, you have done very well with all of your children!

Ginger

February 10th, 2010
6:21 pm

Wow I just read a bit of your comments! Pretty strong opinions! I agree that the Duggars have done well raising their children what I dont agree with is the older ones having to raise their younger brothers and sisters. Mom Dugger is always with baby in hand! I feel for the lack of attention each child DOES NOT get from their parents!! Dad Duggar is a selfish person who does not have consideration of his wife or children. Yes indeed a succesful business man! Look what they get out of the show and what does he have to do?? Get laid and put off the responsibilities to his children! Damn I should not have started!

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
6:51 pm

@JATL…I’m confused because it sounds like you say on one hand the Duggars would be stupid whether they had 1 kid or 19 kids. But on the other hand, if Bill Gates had 6 kids, that would by default make him dumb. You’re sending a very conflicting message, but I’m going to stick with this message you wrote:

“If you have 5 kids and don’t get “fixed” or use a damn good form of birth control to prevent more, then YES, you’re irresponsible! I think 5 is too many, but it’s not in the realm of complete craziness like these fools.”

I’m kind of sad you’ve enlightened me though, because I actually had a favorable opinion (at least for their accomplishments and acheivements, even if I do disagree with some of their politics) of the following people…and it’s a little depressing to know that all these people were “irresponsible….fools”.

Joseph Kennedy – (father to JFK, and 8 other children)

Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia – 9 children

US Senator Rick Santorum – 6 children

George H.W. Bush – 6 children

FDR – 6 children

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
6:53 pm

@JATL…I just realized that you said FIVE is too many..so that mean GREATER THAN FOUR, right? I’m going to have to dig up some more irresponsble fools who had 5, like John D Rockefeller, and Bill Cosby….oh well….back to Google.

catlady

February 10th, 2010
6:56 pm

Well, this was a lively discussion. Thanks to those who kept an open mind (and agreed with part of what I said). :)

I find it difficult to believe that so many people believe they deserve the breaks they get, and that they pay their way. Very few people pay their way (the Bill Gates’ of the world, but even they benefit greatly from the labor of others), and thus almost all of us get welfare (income distribution) from those who pay more. That includes ALL of us who have our air or water quality monitored, our (Goodwill) clothing examined originally to be sure it was flame retardant, etc. I don’t think we should sugar-coat it. Why should your home mortgage deduction be appropriate, but not feeding hungry small children whose parents cannot/don’t take care of them?

Some of you didn’t read my posts very carefully, but I understand that outrage or threat causes the eyes and brain to skip around. You formulate an answer based on what you think the comment said. All of us do that. Reread before you hit the send button.

I don’t care about these people, but they and her health were the topic of the day. Some of the commenters also wondered about her mental health. Appropriate. Would they have had 19 children if they lived in Tibet, far from fame and fortune?

I’d love it if a forensic accountant were allowed to examine their finances completely. For example, how did “Daddy” get his properties he manages? I think it would be interesting to see how they “do it.”

I think a healthy dose of skepticism is always warranted.

I also find no difference among this family, octomom,and the Gosslins. Married or not, the kids are the pawns.

Hopefully the parents will live long and healthy lives, and continue to provide so well for all their dynasty,including the coming generations. If either of the parents die while these kids are minors, think of the SS payout we will be sponsoring!

Thanks, Teresa, for giving us such an open forum to express our opinions.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
6:59 pm

@catlady…do you deserve the breaks you get?

Wounded Warrior

February 10th, 2010
7:01 pm

@go tiger!! I am also an accountant, but not a CPA. I am 5 of 8 kids. I had fun growing up, but was economically hard. Stopped @ 2.

JATL

February 10th, 2010
7:01 pm

@ Tiger -you’re right, the Duggars would be stupid no matter how many kids they had, it’s just a shame they had so many! And don’t trot out people pre-1970s and the amount of kids they’ve had. New birth control methods and a changing social landscape have made huge families the exception and not the norm. The fact that in the early 20th century this country and many parts of the world were not overpopulated also didn’t make having large families a huge deal. My father is one of 5 and my mother was one of 6. Their mothers didn’t have adequate birth control (my father’s mother had her tubes tied when she was operated on for an ovarian cyst in 1945 and she was so happy), and my dad grew up in a big farm family where the kids were had as much to be workers as anything (and he will tell you that). But I will stick by my opinion that people in the last 30-40 years who have more than 5 kids are dim or at the very least not thinking about the most important choice a person can make.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
7:06 pm

@catlady…wow…you’d like to look into their books. Not a big fan of that foundational American principle of presumed innocence, are ya?

Look, I get that you don’t LIKE them. That’s your right. But your initial post went WAY beyond not liking them…you villified a couple who has never done anything illegal and are just following the principles of their religion AS THEY SEE IT…which happens a bunch in religious circles with issues like birth control, premarital sex, and divorce just to name a few. Other than that, they’ve done nothing wrong except live a life that YOU don’t approve. Which is fine, but when someone, anyone, disapproves of something you do, don’t complain when they call you a terrible person for it.

Wounded Warrior

February 10th, 2010
7:08 pm

@catlady. Clayton Co. Schools didn’t teach me to reread before hitting the send button. Pray tell, what else are we folks lacking??????????

motherjanegoose

February 10th, 2010
7:09 pm

I think catlady has a different experience with children whose families are quite large and since she is also an educator. she perhaps recognizes that good parenting is not just about being able to birth/ afford a bucket full of children or even providing clothes or a roof over their heads.

Families live in their own worlds and children grow up ( perhaps) thinking that the entire world is the way their family is.

My children are used to going to church, eating dinner on matching dishes at the dinner table, having a dog who is groomed and sleeps in the bed with us. They do not know a Father who has lost his job ( thankfully) , a vacation house at the beach or in the mountains ( that we can visit several weekends each month) or even grandparents they know and see more than once every few years ( sad but true). This is just us. Every family is different.

Each of us makes assumptions based on our own experience. It is absolutely none of my business how many kids anyone else had. Nor do I feel inclined to set a mandate as to how many are too many.

Based on my experience, I do not feel that any parent can give adequate love and care to 18 children but again that is my opinion ( as an educator). If these children were attending school in a school setting ( today), whether public or private, that would bring a whole new dilemma. Imagine getting even 8 kids ready for school… breakfast, bookbags, teeth brushed, homework, lunches (?) etc.

Are any of you up to the task…I know I could NOT do it.

I am intrigued by the concept ( someone mentioned) of smaller families having smarter children and plan to check it out. While I am not an advocate of having only 1 child, due to lack of important family social interaction with siblings. I have often found that only children are typically bright . The possible correlation between a large family and lower intelligence is a concept I was unaware of.

PLEASE do not get mad at me if you have only one child or are an only child or if you came from a large family.. I am just thinking out loud.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
7:10 pm

@JATL..you MUST know that I can find a lot of prominent, notable, intelligent people since 1970 with 5 kids or more. by the way, what is your magic number, once you said 5 was too many (which would make those with 5 stupid) and then you said more than 5 is the magic number.

Just want to know before I do my research.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
7:13 pm

@MJG…you opened the door MJG…I have one kid. Probably a good thing it’s almost time for me to get home to him….this could be a lively discussion.

regina

February 10th, 2010
7:24 pm

I think it is great the Duggers have the family that they want . If God would have let me i would do the same i have lost 5 babies in my life and know that my kids I do have a a big blessing. If they want more kids it is there right and I think they should. If you are a good parent and cant care for you family others should not care.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 10th, 2010
7:28 pm

@JATL….just one last comment before I shut down. i do respect your opinion to disagree with the way they live their lives. I wouldn’t live that way either.

What I don’t respect is the response to your dislike for them to say the following things (all copied and pasted from your posts)

“The Duggars disgust me to the point that it’s almost difficult for me to have a conversation about them”

“They’re DISGUSTING!!!!!”

“Those later kids are probably crawling out….” (in reference to Michelles privates)

“dumb, overpopulating religious nuts”

You posted this for all the world to see without discretion. In the digital age this is no different than telling this to the Duggars directly to their faces.

I HOPE this isn’t what you’re teaching your two kids as acceptable responses to people they disagree with or find different.

Because if a kid who was number 8 in the pecking order of 10 went to school with your kids and your kids told them

“Your parents are DISGUSTING!! I can’t even talk to you they’re so DISGUSTING…..did you crawl out of your mom…the dumb religious overpopulating NUT!”

If that to you is ok for your kids to say…then maybe you should re-evaluate your fitness to parent as much as you’ve evaluated the Duggars..

Night all…

motherjanegoose

February 10th, 2010
7:29 pm

@ tiger…an only child is often very smart and I have seen this to be true.

Only children, who have been in my classrooms are typically not as likely to roll with the punches of others in the classroom. Not all kids are like this… I know.

My neighbor’s son is an only child and scored a perfect SAT. I took him to the movies years ago with my own kids. We had planned to eat lunch first. I suggested several fast food places and while I was mulling them over with the kids ( in the back seat) , he insisted on Mac Donald’s as he wanted to eat there. My kids did not understand as our family usually took turns deciding where to eat.

I also once sat next to a 40ish man on the airplane who told me he had an only 4 year old. He asked me what I thought were a few important things for young children. I mentioned playing games and reading stories each day. He told me that they did both but that he let his son win all the time as he would pitch a fit if he did not. I laughed as I knew that families with several kids cannot let any child win all the time…just not happening!

You may be a WONDERFUL PARENT with A WONDERFUL ONLY child and that is super. I had two because I wanted a bit of sibling rivalry to have a play in the situation and I wanted a girl and a boy ( I got what I wanted….hoorah!) Look at it this way, your child has the potential to be very bright…I hope he is!

Alecia

February 10th, 2010
8:19 pm

Are these kids college bound? Does the oldest have a degree? Perhaps the parents are not living off the gov’t dime. However, they are not preparing their offspring to be productive tax paying citizens. What type of employment will these 19 children have without a college degree?
Will hubby teach all 19 how to be a business people or politicians? They cannot depend on Michelle to teach these children to be productive adults. There is not much going on above her breasts.

HB

February 10th, 2010
8:33 pm

Just now reading through all the posts. Topic police, MJG? Just because one time few days ago I couldn’t find the jumping off point for one of your rants and asked what it was? Had no idea I touched such a nerve that you’d feel compelled to bring it up again, and once again call me out on a thread before I’ve even posted anything. But if getting your digs in at me is what keeps you happy, I hope I’ve made your day. :)

But back to topic — I’m surprised by how worked up people get about the Duggars. Sure, their lifestyle is unusual, but as DB said, it’s just different and a throwback to not so many decades ago. I’m with Tiger on this — if it works for their family, and it does seem to, then more power to them. I don’t get it, and would never want that many kids myself, but I’m sure they don’t want the life I’m quite happy with either. And I agree with the person who said that they probably have a much smaller footprint than many smaller families because they’ve chosen a simpler, more frugal lifestyle than many. How large is their home? Is is much bigger than the many McMansions that house 4 or 5 people? I also wonder how much less attention their children get. I babysat families with two and three children who sometimes saw Dad before he left for work in the morning and were usually in bed before he got home. If these parents work in the home and the children are homeschooled and working side by side with them to help run the home, they may not get much less face time with Mom and Dad than children in many families caught up in the modern rat race.

As for medical concerns, I’ve seen doctors on TV talking about the increasing risks of more pregnancies for Mrs. Duggar, and would think they’re telling the truth. But at what point do we call taking those risks going too far? I know several women who have chosen to try hard for a second or third pregnancy despite high risks for a difficult pregnancy. And of course, there are many women and men risking Down’s, autism, etc by becoming older parents. Was it really a higher risk for a woman who had 18 children with no complications (that I’ve read of — correct me if I’m wrong) to go for a healthy #19, than another woman who has had perhaps a miscarriage and one very premature child to try for a second? Would people judge the woman with one child as harshly?

JATL

February 10th, 2010
8:35 pm

@ Tiger -I would LOVE the opportunity to tell the Duggars all of those things to their faces. In fact, I would love to have an open forum with all of the over-breeding nut jobs that TLC/Discovery glorifies. Yep, they are disgusting, stupid and irresponsible, and why on earth would I care if you do or don’t respect the fact that I feel that way? (sounds of Michelle Duggars’ labia flapping in the breeze…..)

lol

February 10th, 2010
8:51 pm

I hope these retards know that the earth size is still the same, and it’s not getting any bigger.

luvmygbabies

February 10th, 2010
9:06 pm

The octuplet mom was white but has recieved nothing but grief…I know alot of things turn racist , but I dont think this one is. I think its common sense her body is telling her she has had enough , her uterus has got to be worn out !!! I think the other children are missing out on alot , but I also feel they have a very strong family bond ans are being taught responsibility and loyalty which is something children in todays worl are not being taught because they are spoiled rotten ! Its a catch 22 situation , but I say more power to them.I have to admit I think its kinda crazy , but I guess its normal to them. I just think its sad that they cant really enjoy the grandchildren like grandparents do cause there is nothing better !!!!

DB

February 10th, 2010
10:43 pm

You often see it noted that “the wrong people are punching out kids” — implying that people without education and the ability to inspire a strong work ethic and appreciation for education tend to have more children, who follow in their footsteps, whereas highly educated individuals with an appreciation for education and a strong work ethic tend to have far fewer children. In other words, the people who “should” be having lots of kids aren’t, and the people who “shouldn’t” are. Extremists point to this phenomenon as a factor in the “dumbing down of America”. I dunno. The original “large family”, the Galbraiths (”Cheaper By the Dozen”) were also an ultra-organized family. All of the children who survived to adulthood (the youngest, Mary, died young of diptheria) ended up going to college, five of the 6 boys served in World War II (the 6th was rejected for health reasons), and they all became what most people would consider contributing members of society. (Ironically, none of the children had large families — one child had 4 children, the rest of them had 2 or 3.)

I find a lot to admire in the Duggers. In keeping with their religious principles, they are debt-free. They built their own 7,000 square foot house themselves over the course of three years. Yes, they do get income from The Discovery Channel for their show — but we don’t complain about people who take part in “Survivor” or “The Amazing Race” to earn money, why do people look down their noses at the Duggers for opening their home to T.V.?

One last thought: Did you know that the average size of an Amish family is 7 children? The Amish are what most would consider to be “fundamentalists”, and eschew modern trappings such as TV, internet and electricity. Almost no Amish children attend school past 8th grade, and even fewer attend college. And yet — the Amish do not bring out the amount of vitriole that is directed at the Duggers. In fact, most people consider them “quaint” and that they have the “right to pursue their religious beliefs.” We don’t berate them for not sending their children to college — in fact, we respect their adherance to their beliefs. So do the Duggers. They aren’t bothering anyone, they are taking care of themselves, and teaching their children to do the same. Is that such a terrible thing?

Tiffany

February 10th, 2010
11:08 pm

I think the Duggars need to be extremely thankful that they were blessed with such good fertility…heaven knows that there are so many couples who are struggling to conceive…those couples are the ones I feel for. I think this couple MUST have some mental issues going on. I’d like to hear what the older kids really think about being part of such a huge family…and homeschooling all of them? When do ANY of them get any time AWAY from each other? It is time for the Duggars to put the thoughts of another pregnancy right out of their heads. Having another would be completely insane. They have ENOUGH!

Active Duty Mom

February 11th, 2010
8:23 am

Whether we like it or not, Michelle and Bob Duggar are probably going to have another child because it is their decision. Personally, I think that if your doctor tells you that having another child would be very dangerous for your and/or the child’s health, I think you ought to listen and both parties take the necesssary precautions so that you can care for the children that you do have. I am very thankful that my mom and dad listened to my mother’s doctor back in 1974 when he said no more children after mom almost went into a grand mal seizure and could have died while delivering my brother. They had a total of two kids, but me and my brother still had a mom and dad still had a wife.

DB

February 11th, 2010
8:41 am

@Tiffany: The eldest, Josh, is married to a girl from a family of 8 kids. In interviews, they have said that they both want a large family. Reality may smack them in the face down the road, but that’s what the feeling is now, from the eldest.

Tod

February 11th, 2010
10:08 am

Re birth control. They should just use the “pull out” method. It’s safe and scientifically proven to be the most effective form of birth control out there.

Allyson Greising

February 11th, 2010
10:46 am

The duggars are blesses with all the kids they have, but the fact that she is still having childrenis outrageous. There’s a point where it’s just too much. There honestly should be a limit to how many kids you can have because of the worlds growing population.

Tod

February 11th, 2010
10:58 am

@Allyson G. I agree with the # of kids limit, especially if you are poor…or dumb.

Beth

February 11th, 2010
11:17 am

Disgusting. These parents make me sick. Having children for the sake of having children. They can’t even take care of the kids they have. A “buddy system” is in use, making the older children the parents of the younger children, because the real parents don’t have time.

There is no time to bond or have any real relationship with either parent. Maybe there is time to say “hi” and “bye” and that is it. And to take away the childhood of the older children, as they have to become the parent to a younger child is simply selfish.

These two people need to really look in the mirror and ask themselves if God wants to see sub-standard parents who have no ability to spend quality time with their children. I think NOT!

And then to prostitute their family on tv, in order to gain free sponsorships and gifts … sickening.

These are very UN-christian people. Very selfish, self promotors, looking to make money off of their children.

I hope their show gets cancelled.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 11th, 2010
11:25 am

Is that your Christian take on it, Beth?

Beth

February 11th, 2010
11:29 am

I think there should be a special tax levied on these stupid people that have WAY too many kids.

It is NO secret that the earth is overpopulated and our resources are being taxed to the limit. And here is this family irresponsibly and recklessly breeding ignorant stupid kids who aren’t even educated enough to get a college degree.

Would YOU be willing to forgo your share of food and water to feed this uneducated brood?

They will not contribute to the planet, except to breed more kids themselves. Just more uneducated people for the state to support. More uneducated people who are not contributing to the country. Just what we need.

While other countries are encourageing education and intelligence and becoming world super powers, the US continues to glorify the uneducated and the stupid. Allowing people to home school their children into stupidity.

When the US becomes the lapdog, kissing up to other countries (even our enemies) who support and encourage education – china, middle east (believe it or not) – then we can blame the Duggars and people like them, and all Duggar supporters.

Warrior Woman

February 11th, 2010
11:33 am

@ catlady – You need to get off your “I’m the only that knows how many children a family should be able to have” kick. Your attack on this family shows that you are the one that is “disgusting,” as you so kindly called them.

The Duggars are responsible parents, raising their children and paying their own way. Trying to twist keeping money they earned by taking legal income tax deductions into being on welfare and equating opposition to meth addicts having kids with opposition to African-Americans having kids shows that you are a raciast that is willing to lie to make your point. You say that because the Duggars are alive that someone else doesn’t have enough air? Show me people someone suffocating because the planet has run out of oxygen. And even if they were, what gives you the right to determine who gets what resources?

Taken as a group, your comments today show that you think you should get to determine who gets to have kids or not; who gets to keep their earnings or not; and who gets to live or die. I’m really glad that you dont’ have the power you want to make those decisions. I’ve lost a lot of the respect I’ve had based on your past contributions.

@BeeJay – There is really no evidence – except for disproven hypotheses like Erlich’s “Population Bomb” – that says the world is overpopulated.

@BB – I’m pretty sure that they know there are other methods of birth control. They just choose not to use them, which is entirely their right, as they are taking responsibility for the consequences. Actually, given the Supreme Court’s discovery of a right to privacy in Roe v. Wade, it’s their right regardless.

@motherjanegoose – I’m one of 6. My mom was one of 12. In both families, the older kids helped with the little ones. We all had household responsbilities. Today, my older child helps with her younger sibling. They both have household responsibilities. In my opinion, this is a wonderful practice. Children are members of the family and need to share in family responsibilities. It teaches family cohesion and personal responsibility.

On a different note, MJG, catlady’s posts were a lot more hateful than Jane’s. I find it interesting that you only told Jane to calm down.

Tod

February 11th, 2010
11:33 am

Mexicans have lots of kids too.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 11th, 2010
11:37 am

Do you honestly believe that starvation is caused by a lack of food? That’s just silly. Starvation is an economic problem…not an abundance problem.

Are you a conservative?

Tod

February 11th, 2010
11:41 am

Beth – The Duggars live in Arkansas, is anyone from that state really smart enough to get a college degree that is not obtained online, assuming Ark has internet yet?

Tod

February 11th, 2010
11:43 am

@ Tiger needs me on his PR team – Why does Tiger need you on his PR team? Inside jokes on anomynous blogs aren’t funny.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 11th, 2010
11:44 am

@Beth…my plumber doesn’t have a college degree. I really value his skills and admire his work ethic and his contributions to my community. Same goes for my electrician, the guy who painted my house, the butcher at my local grocer, baker there too, the cop buddy I have, oh and the firefighter buddy I have, and my buddy serving in the Army in Afghanistan right now. None of them were “educated enough to get a college degree.”

I do have a buddy who got a BA in philosophy though, and he makes a MEAN vanilla latte at Starbucks. I appreciate his contributions too and am glad to see he’s put his college education to good use.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 11th, 2010
11:45 am

Tod…it’s not really an inside joke. I took the moniker a while back when the topic was Tiger. It stuck.

Tod

February 11th, 2010
11:50 am

Ok thanks for clearing up. I felt left out.

Tod Dugger

February 11th, 2010
11:50 am

My new moniker.

Tod Duggar

February 11th, 2010
11:56 am

Beth is more of a Octomom fan.

A

February 11th, 2010
12:00 pm

The Duggars have strong beliefs, so who are we to say they should or should not stop having children? More power to them, I stopped at 2.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

February 11th, 2010
12:21 pm

@Tod…yeah, people from Arkansas are destined to be losers.

I mean what did Maya Angelou, John Grisham, Sam Walton, William Dillard, Bill Clinton, William Fulbright, Johnny Cash, Scott Joplin, Billy Bob Thornton, Douglas MacArthur, Lou Brock, and Jerry Jones ever do with their pathetic lives?

God I love Google.

Tod Duggar

February 11th, 2010
1:24 pm

@TigerPR – Their biggest accomplishment was leaving Arkansas.

Alone and Happy

February 11th, 2010
2:04 pm

Jim Bob? Ohhh brother, the name says it all! Yee haw! Children are NOT a precious gift, they are noisy, smelly annoying, time-consuming burdens. Every time some simp goes on about the “joy” of holding a “sweet innocent little child” I can just be sick. I would never give up my lifestyle, nice car, etc, to breed. I’ve worked too hard to reduce myself to being a brainless, boring stay-at-home uterus on legs. I especially hate defective children. They are certainly not a joy or blessing. They’re a curse. They’re a drain on the parents, taxpayers and society. They take up space & resources. Kids are unneccessary. I hate kids. I’m so glad I decided never to have any

Tod Duggar

February 11th, 2010
2:07 pm

@Alone and Happy – see you at Bitter Ball this weekend!!!

Becky

February 11th, 2010
2:22 pm

@Tiger..I agree with you about the plumber..I have a nephew (by marriage) that is a plumber and he looses more money gambling each year than I make..He doesn’t have a college degree either..My ex owns his own company and does very well and (gasp) he doesn’t even have a high school diploma..

From what I have seen of this show, the Duggar children are pretty smart and well adjusted..You never hear about any of them just getting out of jail or caught with drugs or anything like that, so why the big deal with their way of life?

Someone mentioned always wearing clothes bought from Goodwill, so??Who cares where their clothes come from or how they pay for their food, if they are doing it all on their own..Some people are just to materialistic..I can well afford to go out and buy new clothes, I jsut choose not to..I buy plenty of my clothes from a local thrift store.. Life is way to short to worry about what other people think about you..

scrappy

February 11th, 2010
4:17 pm

I know this is off the subject of Michelle’s health, but as a middle class person (a public school teacher, so really, I am lower middle-class incomewise) I strenuously object to being given tax credit as a kind of “government assistance.”

Excuse me. I earned the salary, I paid property taxes, I paid my share of SSI, I forfeit salary for health insurance benfits. (I also paid State, County, and sales taxes. Including sales taxes on necessities like water and natural gas to my home!)

I feel that the $3600 “deduction” the government “gives” me for supporting myself, (and the other dependents in my household…) is hardly a hand-out. It is a recognition that of the 25% of my gross income that I paid to the government was more than a fair share based on the amount of income I earned and the fact that I contribute to society via other financial streams. Stop calling normal tax credits “hand-outs.” It is offensive.

vcm

February 11th, 2010
5:40 pm

The Duggars never said that they wanted to set a record or that they were trying to go back in time by reliving the old testament. They simply believe that children are a blessing and they want as many blessings as God will give them. It’s not our place to judge. It’s their life. They live in a house debt free and have their own income. They believe that this is what they are CALLED to do. It’s no different than a preacher being called into the ministry, or a musician choosing gospel over secular music. They were called to be parents, and if you have ever watched the show, they love their kids, they provide for their kids, and they teach them right from wrong according to the Bible. They are very scheduled and organized, and quite frankly, have more control over their 19 kids, than most parents do over 1 or 2.

We’re so quick to judge and point fingers…..I must have missed the memo that said the Duggars having 19 kids put us in an economic bind and killed the welfare system. DARN.

Also, they are NOT the only family that believe’s this or practices this. There is several families that have been introduced on their show that have just as many kids as them, but because they aren’t in the spotlight, they don’t have to deal with the negative comments and backlash.

This is their ministry, this is their calling, this is what they CHOOSE to do with their lives. WHO ARE WE TO JUDGE?

fk

February 11th, 2010
7:12 pm

I am # 8 of 10. 8 of the 10 hold college degrees. 3 hold advanced degrees. 7 of the ten attended private school. Some attended public colleges, some private. Not one left home to escape – they left for college or the service. My older sisters got married at 21 & 23 (back in 1973 & 1976). Both had college degrees. No one paid our way, with the exception of academic scholarships ~ we all had part-time jobs in high school if not involved in sports. No one is a drug addict nor a criminal.

I have only one child, but that was not the plan. I get a kick out of those who are horrified at large families. So many have strong opinions of large families when they have never been a part of such. Here’s a different opinion: There are those who are a bit taken back at those who would prefer to work fulltime, jet all over the country for a job, take childless vacations and pay someone else care for the kids. It takes all kinds to be good parents. Some people need to work to support their families, some need to work to keep their sanity. I find it so disappointing when mothers attack one another for their choices, when we all share the same goal: raising happy, healthy children who will be positive contributors to society.

DB

February 11th, 2010
7:22 pm

@Alone and Happy: Glad your mother didn’t feel the same way . . .

mamaship

February 11th, 2010
8:58 pm

Just had to comment on catladys post, its not about the color of there skin its about, who is supporting these kids….and its not the tax payers so……….

Shannon

February 11th, 2010
10:14 pm

I believe as long as the Duggers’ are able to provide and take care of more children and if that’s what they want then that’s their business. I would just be careful with just having a preemie baby. Once you have a preemie you can possibly have more preemies. I love the show and watch it as much as I can. I have a 3 little girls and we are done with having kids. My last baby was born at 22 weeks 6 days and was 1 lb 6 ozs! We got really lucky with her no having any medical problems so far. She will be 1 in March. I don’t want to have anymore because of my preemie and I don’t want to take any more chances with anymore babies. I believe if the Duggers’ believe they can have more that’s fine with me but they need to think that their older children are going to start having their families too…Like Josh does! I want to with them all the luck and best wishes in the world! Congrats and hope all goes well with the new baby!

Mimi

February 12th, 2010
12:38 am

I personally think Michelle has a psychological problem. She has an obsession of having babies. The Duggars should be investigating for forcing their older kids to raise their younger siblings. Children need to be raise by their parents. Have their attention and quality time with them. These kids are forced to be parents at an early age. Are these kids given the freedom that they need at their age?
The focus should be in what is happening in that household. None of the kids are attending college. All the kids are home school. Are they being brainwashed and not allowed to see the real world?
I’m worry of all these extreme religions. Yes, they are free to do whatever they want BUT they brought us into their lives. Exploiting their children because of their own selfishness. I see them and I do not see a role model or a life I would like for anyone. Living under the rules and psychological pressures of family and religion. I see the girls the way they are dress and it reminds me of the Middle East. What is the difference when we see women looking oppressed? Is this America in the year 2010? We criticize the east and look at this in our own backyard.
Another thing is that they are very much into only sticking to their own race. Maybe I’m wrong but I have not seem any diversity in their household.

crystal linzie

February 12th, 2010
1:02 am

I think it’s very unfair that people are judging them for having lots of kids. Especially since they can afford them and seem to be teaching them good morals. It shouldn’t matter how many kids you have as long as you do a good job raising them. I think its awesome that they have such a close knit family and think all of us should take a lesson from them on what a family should be. Who are we to decide that they aren’t bonding properly with each child. Neither parent leaves the house to work and the children are all home schooled. They spend more time with their children than any of us. Keep up the good work Duggars and America worry about what’s going on in your own home!

Suzy

February 12th, 2010
1:56 am

Each time they conceive they’re taking a big chance. This last pregnancy should have been a giant wake-up call. They seem addicted to the attention they’re getting with all these babies. Yes, yes we all know they’re good people, who pay their own way (health insurance is probably picking up the huge bills for their recent baby), but at what point do they want reality to hit? The children need their mother. If she or the baby have serious complications, it hurts them as well. The older children are doing a mass majority of the parenting. Next there’s the TV crews who are intruding on their lives. Enough already.

Becky

February 12th, 2010
8:59 am

@fk..I’m #8 of 10..I could only wish that my family was like yours..None of us have college degrees..I do have 2 brothers that are super smart, but neither one of them chose to make something of it..Out of 4 boys, only one has never been to jail, out of 6 girls, one is a drug addict..The rest of us are pretty normal..If anyone really knows what normal is..lol..None of the boys have children, 5 of my sisters have 3 children each..I wasn’t blessed with children..

My Mother (God rest her soul), wasn’t a bad mother, she just married the wrong man and had to work just to support us, so she wasn’t always able to be there for us..As I said, it appears that the Duggars spend a fair amount of time with their children..BUT, she was a good of a mother as she knew how to be..IMO..SO again, if this is what they want, I wish them all of the luck in the world..

cate

February 12th, 2010
6:29 pm

Keep in mind that these kids are not being raised like the vast majority of kids are. None of them are going to college or appear to be interested in living out of the family nest. This appears to be especially true for the girls who wear their hair long because their dad likes it that way and apparently can’t date anyone unless he is of similar upbringing. The older girls do a large percentage of the housework and child rearing as described by their “jurisdictions”. They seem somewhat brainwashed, but maybe that’s the price to pay for having well mannered kids!

fk

February 12th, 2010
6:32 pm

Becky – What is normal? I’d say your mother was a success. She didn’t fold, she did the best she could. It’s very hard for one parent to raise one child alone….and work outside the home. Can’t imagine having a bad day at work and have to go home to face 10 kids with little or no support. My mother’s brother died at 43. My aunt was left to raise 6 kids, ages 1-13. She had help, my mother’s brothers & my aunt’s siblings were all supportive, both in physical presence and monetarily, but regardless of the amount of help, etc., it’s not the same as it would be with a partner.

I don’t know the circumstances of your brothers, but I am all too familiar with young men and stupidity. There comes a point when they are accountable for their own actions. It doesn’t take much to wind up on the wrong side of the bars for some young men under the age of 25. I think everyone knows at least one person who lived in the fast lane, whether they admit it or not. I knew two or three, but they did grow up. They were lucky. Some grow up, some wind up in jail, others wind up in the morgue.

Both of my parents valued education and quality family time. My mother always wanted all of us to have the option of going to college, although they had no intention of footing the bill. We always ate dinner together. The only “ticket” out was if you were involved in a sporting event or working. And, every so often, they checked out where we said we where we went, and with whom we said we were going. It certainly was not an easy life for them, and not a life everyone could live. There was a lot of sacrifice. Oh, there’s a word no one uses any too often these days. Now, they reap their rewards, though. Four generations celebrate holidays, birthdays, etc. together. My mother will say that they could never imagine life at this point, because they were busy, and they just never thought that far ahead.

My two oldest brothers had 5 and 6 kids. The breakdown: 3 girls & 2 boys and the other, 3 & 3. One sister has 4 – 1 boy and 3 girls. Two of my other brothers 2 – both a boy and a girl, and another brother, a sister and myself all have 1- they each have daughters, I have a son. Two of my sisters don’t have any, but are very good to their nieces and nephews, and vice versa. About 10 years ago, we were at a family party and my husband’s brother commented to my niece’s boyfriend at the time, “BIG family, right?”. The boyfriend’s response, “Yes, but I can’t wait to become a part of it.” And, he did :)

Leah

February 12th, 2010
9:21 pm

I was the oldest of 2 children,as my husband is also and both of us wanted a large family. I wanted at least 6 and then would decide if more was good idea after that. I miscarried my first, then had 3 healthy boys. 19 weeks into my next pregnancy, I lost my 4th son, I was devastated, but still had a strong desire to have more. God blessed me with another son 17 months after that loss, which was a difficult pregnancy due to my fears and concerns, which caused high blood pressure which I had to be medicated for starting at 6 weeks. My son was delivered 4 weeks early after it was discovered at a routine stress test that his tracings were not good. Upon an induced delivery, it was discovered that the cord was wrapped tightly around his neck 2x. 1 year later, I was pregnant again and thrilled. My 5th son was delivered by c-section, my only one, 4 weeks early as my cervix would not stay closed any longer and it was discovered after my water had been broken that he was transverse. There were complications during the delivery, I had to be put out, my uterus had to be cut every which way to get him out and I was told in recovery that I was lucky my uterus was able to be saved. Any future pregnancies would end up with a c-section delivery. My recovery was horrible, took 12 weeks for me to recover from all of the internal incisions and scarring is still a problem today. This, I believe, was MY sign that I was to stop and be thankful for what God had given me. I thank God every day for my 5 beautiful, healthy sons.

Michelle, be thankful for what God has given you as you are truly blessed. I do believe in signs from God and you have been given one!! I wish nothing but the best for Josie and hope that you will bring her home very soon healthy to join the rest of the family.

A.Roddy

February 14th, 2010
6:23 pm

If everyone had kids like the Duggars it owuld get like China sooner or later with a one child policy. When citizens fail to be repsonsible the gov has a right ot intervene for the better of the people Quiverfull is too cultish and dangerous.It isnt a religion but just a fad movemet that unfortunatley gained popularity. Many have left it for good reason. BTW the Duggars claim not to be Quiverfull but Fundamentalists who follow many similarites. Debt and gov assistance is against their belief. If they were debt free on their own terms and so forth I would not see a probem. I dont believe in taking gov assistance for granted and strive to be debt free but that is my personal conviction and not part of religous belief. There are times you must go in debt. The kids suffer in poorer QV families because their paretns extreme frugality. Not everyone is so fortunate to have cell phone towers and land . It amazes me in 21st centruy America people blindly follow in the name of Christianity. Andrea Yates was part of this movement. Christians do not blindly follow but lead. thi si nothing against large families or anyone but against sugar-coating

A.Roddy

February 14th, 2010
6:49 pm

I wish Josie well It isnt her fault after all. Im not telling anyone to stop but sometimes you ahve to think about consequnces. Crystal L, my mother had to work there was no other choice, else we wouldnt eat. If woman chosses to work outside the home for whatever it is noone’e business jsut as it is michelle choice to stay home with hers.. As I mentioned, not everyone is so fortunate. bad behavior happens in all walks of life Christian or not. I know a few. People need ot grow up and not make blanket statements. Fl and Beckys comments prove no two families are alike regardless of size. Db the Amish dont put their families on TV. The Duggars are also quick to judge when a lifestyle isnt to their liking. I saw this is the Ethiopian restuarant episode and teh marathon episode. What if one of their kids doesnt want to be married or follow their lifestyle. What business is it 3 people live in a mansion or 20 in a shack? If the person is paying for the MCmansion as aposter mentioned all by themselves I see no problem. I have no children and not materialistic. Those who defend the Duggars need to stop judging everyone else. Since when did smaller famileis become so sinful? LIFE is not one size fits all. Please show some maturity in comments.

A.Roddy

February 15th, 2010
1:20 am

This is not a very popular opinion but i somewhat agree with catlady. Make them non -Christian another race, religion,or a family who adopted 19 kids, or single parent (Octomom ) and you would get a different response. She was just mistaken that they live off the gov and it is only natural to think so considerig the cost of living. They may not live off the gov but they got help from their church (before the home church) because michelle didnt work and already had several children then. Some claim not to be on assistance but are or were so you cant verify they werent ever on gov assistance. If gov assistance is wrong, shouldnt help from the church be wrong too?

Rachel

February 15th, 2010
2:38 am

These parents don’t have close, individual bonds with each of their children, and I think that’s horrible. The majority of the parenting is done by the grown daughters simply because there are so many more of them. Mom and Dad are often away from the home anyways, so their not having jobs outside of the home doesn’t matter.

Also, Michelle breastfeeds for six months, prior to passing the kid off on her eldest daughters and getting pregnant again. That isn’t right. The parents made that child. If they lack the faculties (not just financially) to care for each of their children who requires parenting, they’re being irresponsible by getting pregnant again. Those grown kids are not responsible for their parent’s baby making addiction.

It’s sad. They gave their grown son a job in which he could make OK money and probably makes some coin from the show. His parents found him a nice girl who they encouraged him to marry and have babies with. In contrast, they have given their grown daughters nothing. They keep them around, to care for the kids. Those girls have no ability to go to university or get jobs because they have no lif experience outside the home. Their parents aren’t even encouraging them to get married to someone who can care for them.

Elisabeth

February 15th, 2010
8:56 am

Wow, it’s amazing the number of people who feel the right to pontificate about this family without feeling the need to have any actual facts.

These kids are not kept away from the world, they actively engage in it! They do volunteer work in both their own community and in other parts of the world, both boys and girls alike.

They were debt free with 14 children before any media attention came their way. The young ladies in the family certainly have many life skills that they can apply to either a job or university. Their time management skills alone are extraordinary. They all play instruments and are capable of teaching music lessons.

As to individual bonding, even a cursory read of their book discusses time that is given to individual children with their parents alone. It is simply a matter of priorities. These children rank over mom and dad’s “alone” time, “girls’ night out”, “poker night” and any other number of activities that some parents prioritize over time with their children.

Oh… and I have seven children. Both of us work in hospitals and have private insurance through work. As an RN, I can contribute a great deal to our family budget working only 2 or 3 nights per week (when Daddy is home from his shift at the hospital thereby ensuring no need for babysitters) and am able to be home with them all week to homeschool them using a virtual charter school that is accredited by the state. Oh… and as to intelligence, colleges are actively competing for our eldest (who attends a charter school for pre-veterinary students), our next eldest is in the 7th grade but taking honors high school geometry, all of our children are 2-3 years ahead in mathematics, and number 5 (who should be getting less intelligent according to some posts here) is in kindergarten but reads at a 3rd grade level, with number 6 following closely on her heels!

Oh, and I’m the sixth in my family as well… I performed in Carnegie Hall when I was 17 (on the viola), toured Europe as a soloist with the National Honors Choir at 18, and am a registered nurse in pediatrics with specialty certifications in pediatric emergency nursing.

As a nurse, I can tell you that what happened with this last birth was a fluke that can happen during any number pregnancy for a woman of any age… pregnancy in and of itself raises your risks for gallbladder issues.

As for the “falling in” idiotic comments… any woman who does her kegels and realizes that the vagina is a muscle can keep it just as toned as she and her husband desire with just a little effort! (Of course, this assumes her husband is full sized… perhaps a few of you men making the snide comments are not?)

Linda

February 16th, 2010
1:20 am

I enjoy watching this program, and especially note the kindness and soft quality that each family member, exhibits towards another. Michelle and her husband speak softly and respectfully to their children, and to one another. It apparently works! Although the number of children is a personal decision, the body is not necessarily geared, for the riggors of excessive pregnancies. It is to be respected too,and treated kindly. It would be my fear, that the existing children, might find themselves motherless, if their mother does not allow sufficient time, between pregnancies, to heal and strengthen her body. Without sufficient rest and recovery, that then, would put another pregnancy at risk, which is also a CHOICE, that she and her husband would KNOWLINGLY make and facilitate. Further, if you take the number of children, in addition to her husband, (20), the number of WAKING HOURS, and divide, how much individual (not collective) quality time, can be given to any one family member? If you take a look at nature, mothers do the mothering with some assistance from the hubby, depending on the species. The job is not subcontracted out, to other offspring. A Cardinal sticks with the program, until her job is completed, a short cycle for birds, but a lengthy one for humans.It occurs to me that pregnancy and weaning is a tad addictive, and when that task is over, it becomes a shared responsibility. If children are a gift from God, and certainly they are, perhaps accepting too many “gifts” is not what he had in mind, but savoring the ones given, is. There is a little something, and they call is greed. Birth control via medicine is one thing, refraining from such pleasures, is quite another, and probably quite acceptable. I personally lost one child, and sterile after age 22, have three adopted children, and have had several foster children. I am the only “mother”, my kids ever had, and it worked out just fine!

A.Roddy

February 16th, 2010
1:45 am

Intelligence has nothing to do with birth order or the number of kids in the family. You dont need many skills to cook and clean. It seems only the’ young ladies’ possess these skills. I only saw the boys cook or try to on one episode but only the younger ones. What everyone is trying to say is these poor kids dont have a choice in any matter. I couldnt imagine being 20 years old and raising my younger siblings. If you need to sign up for mommy time something is wrong. A child should not have to sign up for mommy time.

True, what happened to Michelle can happen regardles of number of pregnancies, it is no excuse to contine procreating. They were already told to stop three or four kids ago. Duggar defenders dont realize the seriousness of this situation and Im no medical expert. Common sense speaks volumes.Experts have voiced their concerns over and over again but you wont see this on the show. Why do people try to pontificate and dumb down small families now that the Duggars are on TV? I do have facts because I watch the show sometimes.

michaela

February 16th, 2010
1:14 pm

Children have been responsible for contributing to the family since humankind has existed. And, for older children, that includes taking care of younger siblings. I credit my responsibilities toward my younger sister when I was a child to helping me become the nurturing person who I believe I am. It also forged a bond between us that is very important to me. So, I don’t think that the mere fact that older children have to help take care of their younger siblings makes the Duggars’ lifestyle a bad one.

I don’t believe that childhood should be all play; imagination, learning and discovery should be coupled with work and increasing responsibility. If children aren’t expected to contribute to their family’s well-being (in age-appropriate ways), those children are likely to become adults who are incapable of caring for themselves and who believe that they are entitled to everything the world has to offer.

I am not a Christian, but I have a lot of respect for the Duggar family. I believe that the parents are good people who work hard to help their children grow up to become good people. I don’t envy their lifestyle — and, truthfully, I wish they would encourage their children to attend college before marrying — but I respect their autonomy and for the most part I understand their choices.

Ann D

February 16th, 2010
11:23 pm

well we all are entitled to opinions and i agree having that many children would seem rather too much to handle and i know for me it would , but that is not me or anyone else that is the Duggers . and if you are watching the show all the time they are doing a fantastic job on their own and that is their business how many kids they want to have or god blesses them with and i am sure they know the dangers of having babies , weather it is your first or your 20th, all pregnancies are a chance for complications . and as for someone saying something about the taxpayers money , well they do pay taxes too , they do run a car lot so taxes are paid from them too. i wish i could run my house as good as they do (and i only have 3 ) teens , and believe me i hear people all the time say how organized and well manored they all are and they wish their family was like that and the funny thing is that it is not a movie where people are fake this is reality a real genuine family.

6littleones

February 17th, 2010
5:39 am

It is amazing to me to see how many people are so anti-Duggar. Just because they chose to allow the Lord to control their lives/pregnancies! The most hateful comments I see seem to be from people who first, are not Christian and don’t believe the Bible. And second, ones who don’t watch the show. Because if you DID watch the show, you would understand their beliefs. You would see that they don’t practice “buffet” Christianity, but they believe everything the Bible says. You would know that they are debt-free, government assistance free, etc. You would know that she does breast feed all of her babies exclusively…yes, contrary to what you may have heard, you can still get pregnant while exclusively breast feeding! You would see that they are very doting, loving, and caring parents who devote time, love, and teaching to ALL of their children. God gave this husband and wife a tremendous amount of patience, wisdom, and love. Let’s not be jealous of it and say hateful things just because we don’t have the blessings that they have! Oh, and I saw one comment asking a rhetorical question “can you snuggle and read a book to 6 kids at once?”…and my answer is a resounding YES…I do it all the time!

The Voice of Raisin

February 17th, 2010
8:46 am

What amazes me is that her husband can still get her pregnant. Must be like throwing a pencil down a mine shaft after all those kids, that vag of hers.

One of my former bosses called it (jokingly) “uterus abuse.”

roddma

February 22nd, 2010
12:36 am

I do watch the show I am not JEALOUS I have brain and can think for myself. I call ‘myself fortunate to have husband but would rather be single and childless the rest of my life by choice than conned into having babies and no control over my own body or mind. Let me ask Duggar supporters how does more kids = Christian and sixlittleones, they have patience called older girls or buddies. These girls are mere mini parents.They do not follow the Bible but a whack job named Bill Gothard. Google him ,Fundamentalism, then come back and tell me if you still suport them. I understand the beliefs perfectly. Fundamentalism has damaged families. It is way too strict and legalistic.Im reading a blog of one young lady who managed to escape. I suggest anyone associated with Quiverfull or Fundamentlaism to get out now.I guess why argue with those who wont listen There are those who support them no matter what.but condemn everyone else.

scarb

February 23rd, 2010
12:14 am

I find the Duggar’s to be an inspiration in the sense that despite the enormity of their family, they are able to communicate effectively, work together, have responsibilties, are taught to be self reliant, have gentle spirits, and appear to have a genuine love and connection. In a family of that size this really is amazing. Our family is much smaller and sometimes getting things done as a team is like pulling teeth. The Duggar’s teach their children morals, closely monitor their television and internet usage as well as the music they are allowed to listen to. In an age where young children are being sexually charged by the ear porn known as top 40 music, and images on TV,that quite frankly, embarass me, why not promote a family who is making a lot of kids with good sense and a strong foundation who are learning to do good for the world. For those who watched the episode when Josie was born, the oldest kids were in El Salvador on a mission trip? Some of the previous posts make me think, maybe it would have done some people a little good to be brought up in a home such as theirs!.

Concernd

February 23rd, 2010
8:16 pm

Why they say that they don’t use contraceptives because they feel guilty for the death of their unborn child, (Note: 10-25% of pregnancies end in miscarriage especially in new mothers.) yet they continue to have children despite the risks of having more. She has been lucky that she hasn’t had any complications up till now, but I will argue that she is putting her future children at the same risk of dying, by choosing to have more. I agree with what most others have said and I think most people would, for we are not ridden with guilt for something that was not our fault, this lack of regard for the human body has only to with their guilt. If God was really in control of how many children we should have then why hasn’t she not gotten pregnant, or for that matter why are there people out there that have children that shouldn’t or that don’t want children. There is a movement that exists of these families its called the quiverful movement that believe God will give them as many children as He sees fit yet not one these families has less then five children and most still having children. To me it is like saying I will sit around all day eating junk and saying if God whats me to be fit and healthy then I will be, or having a broken bone and saying God will heal me if that is what is meant to happen, it is just simply not how our bodies work. Women are meant to get pregnant and if you don’t use anything to prevent it no amount of divine intervention will stop that. Do you really think God would what that for his Children? It is scary to think if this movement where to catch on we already over populate the earths habitable space there is no more need to have children like this it is simply not necessary. We have become smarter people then those in the bible we have developed birth control, although I will argue that I am sure they must have used some sort of barrier method they weren’t stupid. We also must remember that women use to die very often in child birth we do not have that now, but if Michelle was having these kids in any other time but with in the past 100 years she and her baby would probably be dead by now, so the questions becomes, now will they stop? I don’t think God would what this either, for being extreme in any aspect isn’t healthy. I don’t think they are bad parents and I don’t think many would argue, but I do think most of use agree that this is a health risk for her to have more children. We all have our opinions but the bottom line is it is not healthy for her any more. What would her family do with out her, I think it is a valid reason for her to stop, if not for her for her children and after all aren’t they everything to her.

molly

February 24th, 2010
12:29 pm

God gave me two children that I am extremely thankful for. But God also gave me common sense, and for that I am thankful, which is why I have only two kids. These people are selfish and completely unfeeling of their older children, I have no respect for them at all.

theologian1

February 24th, 2010
7:24 pm

“The article also reported that based on the Bible, The Duggars abstain from sex 40 days after having a boy and 80 days after having a girl.”

The Duggars would not follow this because it is Mosaic law. It is not because Christians “pick and choose” which verses they want to follow. Rather, due to the whole premise that Christ fulfilled the requirements of the law through his death and resurrection, it is no longer necessary to follow a list of cultural and societal rules such as the one mentioned in the article. Plus, the rules that are contained in Mosaic law were given to the Israelites for their protection from possible illness, harming each other, and from harm from outsiders during a very tumultuous time as they wandered in the desert and sought to settle in the land of Canaan.

What is concerning is that the Duggars have a very poor understanding of how to read and study the Bible, but act as if they represent how all Christians should practice their faith. As they note on their website, they base their idea of having many children merely on “a host of references.” Basing their whole lifestyle on random verses is poor theology as it does not take into consideration who the texts were originally written to, the cultural context, the time period, etc. It’s poor theology and it is as bad as pointing to a random verse and doing what it says.

I respectfully disagree with their ideas and feel they are a little misled, but they are certainly very kind people that do take very good care of their children. I wish them the best and hope that they use wisdom and careful deliberation in making decisions about the future of their family.

Victoria

February 25th, 2010
12:11 pm

I am a mother of 5 and each time i was scared about equal time between them all, Well there isn’t. I feel guilty as a parent who can’t spend the fair amount of time with each child, i have one who is so smart and busy she drives me nuts, and that’s because she wants my attention. I work full time to care for my kids and take nothing from the system, they are my children and my responsibility. So if the duggers want 50 kids and can pay for them go for it, they all seem well behavied and look to be doing a good job raising them. good luck duggers keep positive and god bless your family.

Shelley

February 28th, 2010
9:53 pm

I enjoy watching the Duggars because they are a joy to watch. I am a mother of two boys..19 and 10 and I can’t imagine having 19 children or giving birth to that many. I suppose there is a good reason God chose Michele and not I. I admire how well their household runs and how well behaved their children are. But I mostly admire how Michele and Jim Bob can remain so calm when there is so much craziness going on around them. Many people have said many things that do make sense..how can they possibly have individual time for that many kids? Well, they can’t but none of their children seem to be missing out. None of their time is individual but they all spend time with them..have you watched the show???? I do worry about Michele and her future health if she continues to have children and that of her future children but we cannot forget that we have no control over that. Only God does. No matter what our opinions are will not change that. Instead of being so critical…be thankful for a family that still believes in family. These children are well cared for, loved and believed to be a blessing. What more could they need? And what business is it of ours other than the Duggars want to share their beliefs with us? They hope to make our lives better by learning about theirs. If it does not make your life better, don’t watch. It does help me to make better choices, no matter how small and I will continue to watch. God Bless the Duggars!

[...] But do we really want the state deciding how nuts a person has to be to want 14 children? Or 19 children (and counting)? [...]

Lisa

March 5th, 2010
12:54 pm

I wish I had never heard of these disgusting people. Yes, they have 19 kids, it’s their right to keep having more and it’s nobody’s elses business. However, they should have truly made it nobody’s elses business by keeping their lives private. I am appalled that Michelle and Jim are open to having more children despite knowing the increased risk to Michelle and future babies.

P Gell

March 11th, 2010
5:32 pm

catlady said: “Has she exclusively breastfed all these babies for 12 months each? I am doubting it. If she had breastfed,it is unlikely that she would have conceived so quickly, repeatedly.”

Mrs. Duggar FORCIBLY weans her children between 4 and 6 months (LONG before a natural weaning would occur) and also forces them to Cry It Out at night.

All for what? So, she can, of course, regain her “fertility” and get pregnant again.

THIS IS NOT WHAT GOD’S WORD MEANT! They have twisted the Word Of God for their own purposes (as do most people.) The Blessed Mother would never have force weaned the Infant Jesus, nor would she have let him cry alone and miserable in his bed, without her arms and her breasts.

Yet, Mrs. and Mr. Duggar think their DESIRE to have a record breaking family is more important the the individual psycological and physical health of each and every one of thier children.

It is SO sad.

It is SO sad. They don’t show Michelle ignoring her baby’s cries for HER and her baby’s cries for her milk on the show, so most people just ASSUME she is taking care of them at night.

I wonder how this poor preterm baby, Josie will fare on such neglect?

Carrie

March 18th, 2010
9:45 am

I think that Jim Bob and Michelle are wonderful parents. They raise there kids in a great way. Yes the older children help with the younger ones, but it teaches them and they learn alot from it. Some people might say its wrong, but I dont think so I think they enjoy being such a help to there parents. They are that way because they were raised to be caring ! When it comes to them having more children i think god will help guide them in the right direction. I think they are a wonderful family, and i wish them all the best !!!!

BARBARA MARTIN

March 18th, 2010
5:30 pm

Maybe it is just me, but Michelle seems to have a obsessive compulsion with babies. When the entire family came to the hospital to see Josie, Michelle ignored all of the older children and only spoke to Jordyn. If I was an older girl like Jana, Jill, Jinjer and Jessa, I would feel my only purpose in life was to rear my younger siblings. They do not go to college or have jobs that pay. Years ago when the older children were asked what they wanted to be…some said nurse, teacher, etc. So, they stay home and are not allowed to grow up and join the world as adults. I hope they are allowed to be married and have children of their own.

gwenna

April 8th, 2010
2:44 pm

I really think they need to see the early delivery of this child as s sign from GOD that they are pushing the limit here. God also gave us the doctors and researchers to help with medical needs in this world – like him being fixed or her being fix – there is NOTHING wrong with NOT reproducing…………

Erica

April 12th, 2010
10:46 pm

If they could truly afford all these kids they clearly would not need a t.v. show! Yes, they may have a few more brains than Jon and Kate Gosselin or Octomom, but not much. I know they want more kids if God allows, but l think God has given them a huge gift-little Josie’s survival. They say they’ll stop when God wants them to stop, and sadly l think God’s saying “stop” with what’s going on with this poor baby. l feel they should take this tremendous gift, Josie, and quit while they’re ahead. If they were so heartbroken with a miscarriage, how heartbroken would they be if Michelle gave birth to a baby and they lost it? They need to stop!

Cathy

August 15th, 2010
3:10 am

Wonder how long it will be before there is a follow-up to this show when the kids help Jim Bob search for wife #2 ?? After all, when Jim Bob set up the show with the title “18 and counting” that pretty much set the pace for Michelle to have one pregnancy after another to keep them on TV. But hey, the show much go on…even if his wife’s and the baby’s health is now at risk due to her age. What a guy. Treats his wife like some brood mare in the barn. And his other children like chattel to take care of children that are his and Michelle’s responsibility to raise.